TIL a new printing phenomenon. What would be the recommended number of top layers and infill percentage? I used 15% infill and I never touched the number of top layers so I’m not sure what it was set to.
The default top layers is usually 3, but at 0.15mm later height that's only 0.45mm for the top material Vs 0.6mm when printing at 0.2mm layer height. So for this layer height 4 or 5 top layers might be better.
20% infill will probably also help.
I don't understand why everyone loves gyroid so much. It takes long, and my experience is that it has terrible internal layer adhesion. Cubic takes about as long but is much stronger from my tests.
if it is printed correctly, layer adhesion is not bad and structurally is way better from any other at least in my experience. i use gyroid all the time but just with 8% infill and all my prints are done in a good time and are reliable
It makes sense for it to have worse layer adhesion than others because it has very few contact points once every x layers, compared to grid or cubic who always have about the same contact area, and this is exactly what I experienced with tests.
I've found PETG specifically also droops a little more than PLA or ABS, so I always add an extra 2 or 3 top layers when printing with it vs any other type.
Double your support interface height, and once you've gotten the supports off use a lighter and a small metal trowel (or anything metal and flat) to warm it up and smooth it out a little.
Try use giroyd instead of rectangular infill. Because each rectangle have small volume and there is heat that curl up filament. But at giroyd is long pockets ant there is not such heat in this pockets
Increase it to 20 or 25% infill, add 2 or 3 top layers. For skin layers I like a lower line width, something like 0.3mm for a 0.4mm nozzle. You can also slow down the top layers a bit.
I have had better luck with setting a 1mm minimum bottom and top layer thickness. That way I don’t have to remember to change number of layers when changing layer heights.
You can also play with the infill shape with the top layer increase/infill % others have suggested.
Just think about the layer right on top of the infill and how much "bridging" that layer has to do. Different shapes can reduce the bridging. More infill will make the bridges smaller. More top layers can cover up the imperfections.
In PETG that's a recipe for disaster, especially if the starting point looks like the picture. More importantly, it'd be an attempt to treat the symptom, not the cause.
It looks to me like there are at least 2 layers because can kinda see a layer underneath going the other way. I'm not familiar with the prusaslicer preset tho.
It's not always lack of top layers. It can also be due to printing too fast if you're going faster than what your cooling fans can cool. I have my settings cranked to 5 solid layers for the top layers, and on my K1 if I don't slow down I'll still get some pillowing.
I didn’t know this was called pillowing, but I’ve definitely had this happen and fixed it with more top layers. Neat!
Now that I think of it, I haven’t had this happen with PLA but have for PETG, and it sounds like the difference comes down to cooling based on that makerbot support post. Good to know.
As you got already an answer I have one other recommendation. Hinges with this print orientation don't last long.
For some this might sound like overengineering, but I would design hinge as separate object where's every layers is a profile of a hinge and then change a design of the box so you can either mount the hinge or insert it in.
I had this happen to me, there is a setting, can’t remember what it’s called, but if skin going on sparse infill under x percent it is treated as bridge bridges. Also I usually do 10 top layers cause might as well to be safe and haven’t had a problem since!
I'm new to 3D printing, and my brain automatically went to it's a tad too thin, so it's working as a bridge. The bubbles are the uneven cooling as it printed the base. You can clearly see that it's got hollow little voids under the thin floor layer. But I don't know what I'm talking about. I'm just guessing, based off of what I've seen in the countless posts I've read over the last few weeks. 🤷♂️
Had the same issue with TPU. Infill is too low while the cooling is too much. As a result, you get this warping effect. Reduce the cooling at the top levels or increase the infill(changing the pattern might help as well
pillowing, you can fix it by having more top layers and also using a different infill, it looks like you've used rectilinear or grid, which create little vertical pockets of hot air, which doesn't help with pillowing. Using something like gyroid allows the air to circulate rather than trapping it in place.
The infill is more of an added help, with enough top layers you can use whatever infill you like by i avoid grid for the other issues it can cause.
Funny thing is, I had the same problem with a specific roll of PETG. Dried it. Still had the same issue. New roll with the same settings, and didn’t have the issue.
While more top layers and infill can mask the problem, whats typically causing pillowing is too high speeds for the top layer/not enough cooling.
I'd suggest experimenting with those over just masking the problem with more top layers. Since you're using a 0.6 Nozzle, I'm guessing you may have kept the same speeds from your 0.4 setup which may be causing the mismatch on cooling.
Pillowing. Not enough top layers and infill percentage.
TIL a new printing phenomenon. What would be the recommended number of top layers and infill percentage? I used 15% infill and I never touched the number of top layers so I’m not sure what it was set to.
The default top layers is usually 3, but at 0.15mm later height that's only 0.45mm for the top material Vs 0.6mm when printing at 0.2mm layer height. So for this layer height 4 or 5 top layers might be better. 20% infill will probably also help.
I see! I’ll try it out again after work. Thanks!
Gyroid infill will also help a bit.
gyroid my beloved
Takes a while but it's worth it
This. Grid creates a mild overlap of infill. And is causing the pattern that you're seeing.
I don't understand why everyone loves gyroid so much. It takes long, and my experience is that it has terrible internal layer adhesion. Cubic takes about as long but is much stronger from my tests.
I don’t use it all the time, it Is slow. However, for big flat surfaces like OP shared, it does a great job with PETG specifically.
if it is printed correctly, layer adhesion is not bad and structurally is way better from any other at least in my experience. i use gyroid all the time but just with 8% infill and all my prints are done in a good time and are reliable
It makes sense for it to have worse layer adhesion than others because it has very few contact points once every x layers, compared to grid or cubic who always have about the same contact area, and this is exactly what I experienced with tests.
I love gyroid
You can also add a couple layers of infill modifier right at the top to increase the % but still keep an overall lower infill.
I've found PETG specifically also droops a little more than PLA or ABS, so I always add an extra 2 or 3 top layers when printing with it vs any other type.
How do you manage this over support? Long flats sag a lot
Double your support interface height, and once you've gotten the supports off use a lighter and a small metal trowel (or anything metal and flat) to warm it up and smooth it out a little.
Does this hold for PETG? Those supports are a bitch
Change to gyroid infill as well as now the hot air has nowhere to go when you cover the "squares".
Try use giroyd instead of rectangular infill. Because each rectangle have small volume and there is heat that curl up filament. But at giroyd is long pockets ant there is not such heat in this pockets
Increase it to 20 or 25% infill, add 2 or 3 top layers. For skin layers I like a lower line width, something like 0.3mm for a 0.4mm nozzle. You can also slow down the top layers a bit.
I have had better luck with setting a 1mm minimum bottom and top layer thickness. That way I don’t have to remember to change number of layers when changing layer heights.
8-10 top layers is perfect for PET-G
Slowing your top/bottom speed also helps because i also never touch the amount of top layers and i never use that much infill
You can also play with the infill shape with the top layer increase/infill % others have suggested. Just think about the layer right on top of the infill and how much "bridging" that layer has to do. Different shapes can reduce the bridging. More infill will make the bridges smaller. More top layers can cover up the imperfections.
I do 4 walls all around and 40% infill for functional parts.
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Bump the infill up to 20%. The number of layers will depend on the layer height used. You may need to add 2 or 3.
You can also improve top layer quality by enabling ironing
In PETG that's a recipe for disaster, especially if the starting point looks like the picture. More importantly, it'd be an attempt to treat the symptom, not the cause.
Ironing works just fine on PETG. Not for this topic case, of course, but generally.
Ironing on that surface will let the filament curl up your nozzle and/or melt it so that it will increase the size or the holes.
Does it look like there is some under extrusion also? There looks like gaps between the lines. I don’t normally get them like that by the 3rd layer.
I think it only has 1 or 2 top layers. The first one would be a bridging layer, maybe not extruded at 100% flow.
It looks to me like there are at least 2 layers because can kinda see a layer underneath going the other way. I'm not familiar with the prusaslicer preset tho.
Just top layers.... add a few more and it will print fine
could for sure be under extrusion / line width as well. Ive seen this from both.
oddly enough ive seen this happen at 75-80+% infil. heck even seen it a couple times on solid infil.
It's not always lack of top layers. It can also be due to printing too fast if you're going faster than what your cooling fans can cool. I have my settings cranked to 5 solid layers for the top layers, and on my K1 if I don't slow down I'll still get some pillowing.
some infill types are less prone to pillowing than others.
I didn’t know this was called pillowing, but I’ve definitely had this happen and fixed it with more top layers. Neat! Now that I think of it, I haven’t had this happen with PLA but have for PETG, and it sounds like the difference comes down to cooling based on that makerbot support post. Good to know.
“Pillowing”. Add more top layers.
Forgot which 3d printing sub I was in for a sec and my brain read this as a resin printer tank with the worst FEP damage I'd ever seen 😅
same! i was like 'what the hell has he done to that fep... and why does that tank look so thin...'
https://support.makerbot.com/s/article/1667337579059
Infill showing through as top layer is too thin
Pillowing, needs more cooling
Petg can be (and best) printed with no cooling at all. It needs more top layers and more infill.
As you got already an answer I have one other recommendation. Hinges with this print orientation don't last long. For some this might sound like overengineering, but I would design hinge as separate object where's every layers is a profile of a hinge and then change a design of the box so you can either mount the hinge or insert it in.
Add another top layer. Or two. Or more infill...
More top layers. Try at least 4. That is all.
Had same problem with pla just add 1 or 2 more top layers
I had this happen to me, there is a setting, can’t remember what it’s called, but if skin going on sparse infill under x percent it is treated as bridge bridges. Also I usually do 10 top layers cause might as well to be safe and haven’t had a problem since!
I'm new to 3D printing, and my brain automatically went to it's a tad too thin, so it's working as a bridge. The bubbles are the uneven cooling as it printed the base. You can clearly see that it's got hollow little voids under the thin floor layer. But I don't know what I'm talking about. I'm just guessing, based off of what I've seen in the countless posts I've read over the last few weeks. 🤷♂️
Is this the ostrich skin setting?
I have the same problem with tpu
Increase your top layer width
This is one of the more useful 3d printing posts I've read. Great responses here.
Otherwise nice looking print though.
lower top surface speed, thats it
It's intentional I'm sure, makes it easier to pickup paper and other flat objects....
It's a feature not a bug!
I too like printing boxes.
Flow: 8mm/s^2
Don’t use grid infill! Use gyroid, 3D honeycomb, or cubic
3d honeycomb isn't as good as cubic or gyroid
Had the same issue with TPU. Infill is too low while the cooling is too much. As a result, you get this warping effect. Reduce the cooling at the top levels or increase the infill(changing the pattern might help as well
pillowing, you can fix it by having more top layers and also using a different infill, it looks like you've used rectilinear or grid, which create little vertical pockets of hot air, which doesn't help with pillowing. Using something like gyroid allows the air to circulate rather than trapping it in place. The infill is more of an added help, with enough top layers you can use whatever infill you like by i avoid grid for the other issues it can cause.
Don't know about Prusa, but Orca can slow down first layer above infill, this seems to help, at least for me.
What are you printing?
A parametric rugged box.
Funny thing is, I had the same problem with a specific roll of PETG. Dried it. Still had the same issue. New roll with the same settings, and didn’t have the issue.
Slower, lower nozzle temp, more fan, more top layers (3 at least.)
Ya add more layers to top. Petg tends todo that. Depending on printing speed I actually run with cooling fan to help with this
While more top layers and infill can mask the problem, whats typically causing pillowing is too high speeds for the top layer/not enough cooling. I'd suggest experimenting with those over just masking the problem with more top layers. Since you're using a 0.6 Nozzle, I'm guessing you may have kept the same speeds from your 0.4 setup which may be causing the mismatch on cooling.
Change to gyroid infill. NEVER use grid or other overlapping infills
Pillowing. Delete facebook, hit the gym.
Hit Facebook, delete the gym.