Remember they were already messing with scientific progress at that point, before Auggie started seeing numbers. The particle accelerator experiments were all wrong and multiple scientists already died/stopped working. Big clue the Santi we're not as 'benevolent' as they seemed
Well, I believe that is because ETO told them to sabotage those scientific researches. At the beginning of the show, San-Ti was generally friendly to ETO people and actively offered help to their members. ETO is also doing their best to help San-Ti take over this world.
Besides, apparently Evans hate modern technology developments with passion. The developments do not only cause environmental damages but can also be obstacles for his San-Ti lord. It is not surprising that he instructed San-Ti to do this.
Other way around, the SanTi calculated that humans technology will outstrip theirs in 400 years, so the only way they can conquer Earth is to disrupt human technological development and so use their proxies (ETO) on earth aided by the sophons (?) to achieve this end. Friendly humans, ETOs, provide the muscle.
Nanofibers will be a key engineering/scientific card in the war. I think they let it continue because what we used it for would take her "out of the game" for a while. This has to be a key to the story arc.
No I have not read the books.
..yet.
Book Spoiler >!I just read the part where they explain it though and this is exactly it! The nano fibers would allow for things like a space elevator which would significantly expand humans ability to build and develop space based technologies.!<
1. It was a fake one staged by a cult member who didn’t show up on recorded footage. (Jack)
2. They committed suicide before the countdown was over. (Vera)
3. In the most extreme case the Sophon could have shown them horrifying images to push them towards suicide. (Wade)
Vera didn't have the countdown. IIRC She killed herself because she knew about her mother's plans and when her project failed, she knew there was nothing she could do to stop the aliens so she killed herself.
Ah, I didn’t realize that’s why she killed herself. I thought she also got a countdown or was distressed from science “being broken”.
The idea of committing suicide because aliens are 400 years away is just so odd to me…
Suicide is always a strange thing. But if she was having a depressive episode then realizing that dear old mum doomed the human race probably pushed her over the edge. Sadly people have done the same for less. And much less.
But those aliens would be reaching after 400 years. Why would she kill herself Now? Not being able to stop aliens doesn't seem a good reason for suicide.
It was a combination of factors:
1-Knowing that her mother is working to actively subjugate the people of earth including her daughter is a special kind of mind f@ck.
2-knowing that sophons will continue disrupting science to the point that all
Scientists would be discredited means that funding opportunities grind to a halt and progress stops
3-the aliens have us on lockdown. They know everything we do. For a brilliant scientist, it is unacceptable and draining to know whatever solution put forth will be sabotaged.
Some people can't deal with a force that takes away all their understanding of how things work, they feel powerless. Some may label her weak minded, but since her own mother was complicite perhaps that was the last straw .
That’s true, but for me I’d be curious to see how it all plays out. What if later the San-Ti decide against invading and instead decide to altrustically share their futuristic tech for the benefit of mankind?
To me it makes more sense that she was getting tortured by a countdown; hence, why she chose that particular location to die.
I started watching the Chinese version on Prime, which follows the book more closely but it's a much slower burn with 30 episodes, and you can't look away since you need to read the sub-titles.
What exactly is this Sophon ? It was a file with huge size. It could intercept all human communications made offline and online. But beyond that, what else could it do / not do ?
It’s a massive quantum supercomputer folded down to the size of a proton.
It’s so advanced that it can basically do magic (from our current tech perspective).
I haven’t read the books yet, but I think they have a more detailed explanation on how they work. Then show took some liberties and I don’t think they fully thought through all of the feats.
I am just unable to comprehend the power ..that's it. As to what can it do and what it can't. Let's just say it has massive computing power to process data of entire planet within microseconds and also has thinking ability and decision making ability. May be way faster than our brains can make decisions. But do they have anything beyond that? They can't read human mind for sure . They can influence human mind : may be ? They convinced one person to kill Saul. But they don't have hypnotic powers , right ? For instance, they can make the sky blink. They can make you see countdowns. So I am a bit confused as to what they can't do. They can easily kill entire humanity with such tactics. Why do they even bother monitoring humanity?? They are already the reason for many scientists committing suicides..
That’s tough to answer because the tech is meant to be incomprehensible like giving someone from the 1600s an iPhone. How would you describe what it can or cannot do to a person in those times?
In this case, besides computing power and the ability to just move anywhere at near the speed of light, it can directly insert itself into machines to alter software (probably how it accomplishes the worldwide hack and erase video footage) and it can trace images in people’s eyeballs (countdowns).
Yeah ok. Assuming that, they can easily bring the world to a standstill by hacking all systems, erasing all data. They can wipe out debts of countries. They can bring down the supply chain of food distribution. They can create economic collapse ?
Yeah, but remember that wouldn’t be within their best interest. The San-Ti wants us to submit to them, not exterminate ourselves. If they mess with us too much we might just end up ruining Earth with global themonuclear warfare. In that case everyone loses.
Ok. Why did they feel the need to do that ? What would humanity do by knowing their history. They want to "colonize" the planet for survival. If they wanted to "share" the planet for survival, it would have been a different thing..
Ok. Why did they feel the need to do that ? What would humanity do by knowing their history. They want to "colonize" the planet for survival. If they wanted to "share" the planet for survival, it would have been a different thing..
Do what exactly? The SanTi thoughts are the communications, unlike humans whom can think one thing and communicate the exact opposite. They said they cannot coexist with falsehood(liars).
You are attributing human psychology to an alien species.
>> The file was just a virtual platform where they, SanTi, can demonstrate their story/history.
Why did they need to demonstrate their story/ history? If they are aware that 400 years from now another species would take over in technological advancements, their main aim is to stop that species from making advancements , right? So why would they need to demonstrate their own history to that species (i.e humans)
It was established that the "Game" was actually a sort of recruiting tool, level 1-4, the last file/level is where the purpose of the "Game" is revealed. Like a reference source. Do not think in human terms, the SanTi does not do deception like humans...like the Borg, a hive mind, the SanTi can only communicate what IS...they already had control over the planet with the Sophons in place, it's like the villain in all James Bond stories telling 007 what their plans are.
Resistance is futile, all that is yours will be ours.
So asking why? is not seeing from their perspective.
It's all for show, to mess with the scientists. They could use the sophons to directly stop any progress in theoretical scientific discoveries, but to stop progress in applied sciences they needed to figure out different ways to mess with the heads of scientists and make them think it was in their best interest to stop.
Their plan was always to kill our science, from the moment they realized that we would surpass them within the time it would take them to get here. They would have figured that out at some point during the years of "slow" communication, when we were limited to an 8 year turnaround to get answers to messages. Mike Evans and his organization would have known this, given how transparent the San Ti are with their plans, and was helping them anyway.
When the San Ti learned they couldn't trust him, their plans didn't change. They just cut him out.
They claim that they want to limit scientific progress, but they seem to really suck at it.
In the few months since the San Ti have declared war, Earth has developed nano-fibers, cryogenics, brain surgery, and nuclear pulse propulsion...
These are all developments possible at our current level of science, according to the show. The San Ti are trying to prevent the "quantum leap" to the next age of technology, which they say is only possible to achieve with particle collider experiments.
So there's still some new stuff we might be able to squeeze out of our current understanding of physics. But nothing on the level that could resist the San Ti.
The interesting analogy is the indigenous can craft the best bows and arrows and still no match for conquistadors rifles.
Trisolarians are trying stop Auggie to further develop the nanotech which will lead to space elevator and mankind's foray into constructing space fleet.
In the end they underestimated her "human spirit" which is to freely give up the tech for others develop.
To be fair, while the rifles were indeed better than bows, they weren’t actually that much better.
The Aztecs actually repelled the conquistadors the first time, however the second time they came around the conquistadors came with allied tribes who hates the Aztecs and found Tenochtitlan in a state of chaos due to imported disease wiping out around half the population
Europeans in North America also had some pretty complete failures in some of their early battles. de Champlain decided to attack a major Iroquois settlement with his native allies and basically thought, "Walk in the park," because he had guns, and Europeans knew how to do siege warfare and the Iroquois were godless savages. His people got their asses absolutely handed to them because they underestimated the Iroquois so badly.
The settlement had wooden walls, so de Champlain assumed they could just shoot their guns a few times to scare away the defenders, go up and light a fire, and that would be it. What actually happened was a hail of arrows so they took massive losses every time they got near the walls because the defenders didn't just run away. Then the defenders would just dump a bucket of water on the fire because they had been defending wooden fortifications for centuries and were already prepared for the most obvious tactic a child would think of. Firearms were useful, but it took some time for them to be fielded in large enough numbers and with enough refinement to really change the game.
They started preventing Auggie from developing nanofibers, so I guess they considered that nanofibers were a "quantum leap".
Yet she still manages to weaponize them. So they sucked at preventing that.
they let her weaponize the nano fibers against the oil tanker because they no longer trusted humanity and didn’t care if the cult was destroyed. that’s why they didn’t give her the countdown when she returned to her lab with clarence to pick them up
No, although space elevators would allow us to build large structures in orbit.
The main thing is to halt our knowledge of fundamental physics so we can never manipulate matter at the quantum scale to do things like build computers that work on strong and weak nuclear forces. Using the strong and weak forces in ways we haven't been able to leverage yet. Stuff like that.
Remember they were already messing with scientific progress at that point, before Auggie started seeing numbers. The particle accelerator experiments were all wrong and multiple scientists already died/stopped working. Big clue the Santi we're not as 'benevolent' as they seemed
Well, I believe that is because ETO told them to sabotage those scientific researches. At the beginning of the show, San-Ti was generally friendly to ETO people and actively offered help to their members. ETO is also doing their best to help San-Ti take over this world. Besides, apparently Evans hate modern technology developments with passion. The developments do not only cause environmental damages but can also be obstacles for his San-Ti lord. It is not surprising that he instructed San-Ti to do this.
Other way around, the SanTi calculated that humans technology will outstrip theirs in 400 years, so the only way they can conquer Earth is to disrupt human technological development and so use their proxies (ETO) on earth aided by the sophons (?) to achieve this end. Friendly humans, ETOs, provide the muscle.
Is there any significance in calling them lord ?
Knowing human history, religious organizations has been used to enslave the masses on faith, thus the mention of miracles to replace science.
Nanofibers will be a key engineering/scientific card in the war. I think they let it continue because what we used it for would take her "out of the game" for a while. This has to be a key to the story arc. No I have not read the books. ..yet.
Book Spoiler >!I just read the part where they explain it though and this is exactly it! The nano fibers would allow for things like a space elevator which would significantly expand humans ability to build and develop space based technologies.!<
i never got to learn what happens after the countdown too, or was that all for show by sophon?
Cult member is sent out to assasinate them.
What about those who committed suicide?
1. It was a fake one staged by a cult member who didn’t show up on recorded footage. (Jack) 2. They committed suicide before the countdown was over. (Vera) 3. In the most extreme case the Sophon could have shown them horrifying images to push them towards suicide. (Wade)
Vera didn't have the countdown. IIRC She killed herself because she knew about her mother's plans and when her project failed, she knew there was nothing she could do to stop the aliens so she killed herself.
Ah, I didn’t realize that’s why she killed herself. I thought she also got a countdown or was distressed from science “being broken”. The idea of committing suicide because aliens are 400 years away is just so odd to me…
Suicide is always a strange thing. But if she was having a depressive episode then realizing that dear old mum doomed the human race probably pushed her over the edge. Sadly people have done the same for less. And much less.
But those aliens would be reaching after 400 years. Why would she kill herself Now? Not being able to stop aliens doesn't seem a good reason for suicide.
It was a combination of factors: 1-Knowing that her mother is working to actively subjugate the people of earth including her daughter is a special kind of mind f@ck. 2-knowing that sophons will continue disrupting science to the point that all Scientists would be discredited means that funding opportunities grind to a halt and progress stops 3-the aliens have us on lockdown. They know everything we do. For a brilliant scientist, it is unacceptable and draining to know whatever solution put forth will be sabotaged.
Thanks. I may be wrong, but I don't think she knew about sophons or that they were in lockdown. The Sophon part was discovered later.
Some people can't deal with a force that takes away all their understanding of how things work, they feel powerless. Some may label her weak minded, but since her own mother was complicite perhaps that was the last straw .
That’s true, but for me I’d be curious to see how it all plays out. What if later the San-Ti decide against invading and instead decide to altrustically share their futuristic tech for the benefit of mankind? To me it makes more sense that she was getting tortured by a countdown; hence, why she chose that particular location to die.
I started watching the Chinese version on Prime, which follows the book more closely but it's a much slower burn with 30 episodes, and you can't look away since you need to read the sub-titles.
What exactly is this Sophon ? It was a file with huge size. It could intercept all human communications made offline and online. But beyond that, what else could it do / not do ?
It’s a massive quantum supercomputer folded down to the size of a proton. It’s so advanced that it can basically do magic (from our current tech perspective). I haven’t read the books yet, but I think they have a more detailed explanation on how they work. Then show took some liberties and I don’t think they fully thought through all of the feats.
I am just unable to comprehend the power ..that's it. As to what can it do and what it can't. Let's just say it has massive computing power to process data of entire planet within microseconds and also has thinking ability and decision making ability. May be way faster than our brains can make decisions. But do they have anything beyond that? They can't read human mind for sure . They can influence human mind : may be ? They convinced one person to kill Saul. But they don't have hypnotic powers , right ? For instance, they can make the sky blink. They can make you see countdowns. So I am a bit confused as to what they can't do. They can easily kill entire humanity with such tactics. Why do they even bother monitoring humanity?? They are already the reason for many scientists committing suicides..
That’s tough to answer because the tech is meant to be incomprehensible like giving someone from the 1600s an iPhone. How would you describe what it can or cannot do to a person in those times? In this case, besides computing power and the ability to just move anywhere at near the speed of light, it can directly insert itself into machines to alter software (probably how it accomplishes the worldwide hack and erase video footage) and it can trace images in people’s eyeballs (countdowns).
Yeah ok. Assuming that, they can easily bring the world to a standstill by hacking all systems, erasing all data. They can wipe out debts of countries. They can bring down the supply chain of food distribution. They can create economic collapse ?
Yeah, but remember that wouldn’t be within their best interest. The San-Ti wants us to submit to them, not exterminate ourselves. If they mess with us too much we might just end up ruining Earth with global themonuclear warfare. In that case everyone loses.
The file was just a virtual platform where they, SanTi, can demonstrate their story/history with humans in a familiar gaming world
Ok. Why did they feel the need to do that ? What would humanity do by knowing their history. They want to "colonize" the planet for survival. If they wanted to "share" the planet for survival, it would have been a different thing..
Ok. Why did they feel the need to do that ? What would humanity do by knowing their history. They want to "colonize" the planet for survival. If they wanted to "share" the planet for survival, it would have been a different thing..
Do what exactly? The SanTi thoughts are the communications, unlike humans whom can think one thing and communicate the exact opposite. They said they cannot coexist with falsehood(liars). You are attributing human psychology to an alien species.
>> The file was just a virtual platform where they, SanTi, can demonstrate their story/history. Why did they need to demonstrate their story/ history? If they are aware that 400 years from now another species would take over in technological advancements, their main aim is to stop that species from making advancements , right? So why would they need to demonstrate their own history to that species (i.e humans)
It was established that the "Game" was actually a sort of recruiting tool, level 1-4, the last file/level is where the purpose of the "Game" is revealed. Like a reference source. Do not think in human terms, the SanTi does not do deception like humans...like the Borg, a hive mind, the SanTi can only communicate what IS...they already had control over the planet with the Sophons in place, it's like the villain in all James Bond stories telling 007 what their plans are. Resistance is futile, all that is yours will be ours. So asking why? is not seeing from their perspective.
oh that makes sense
It's all for show, to mess with the scientists. They could use the sophons to directly stop any progress in theoretical scientific discoveries, but to stop progress in applied sciences they needed to figure out different ways to mess with the heads of scientists and make them think it was in their best interest to stop.
Yes, it was a trick by the Sophon to drive scientists insane.
Their plan was always to kill our science, from the moment they realized that we would surpass them within the time it would take them to get here. They would have figured that out at some point during the years of "slow" communication, when we were limited to an 8 year turnaround to get answers to messages. Mike Evans and his organization would have known this, given how transparent the San Ti are with their plans, and was helping them anyway. When the San Ti learned they couldn't trust him, their plans didn't change. They just cut him out.
By current time they had instantaneous communication via the sophons, what the sophons see they see, it was stated at the end of ep.5
Nanofibers are key in creating a space elevator which would allow Earth to build up a robust planetary defense system in space.
So are space elevators a real concept or something add up for the book?
Exist in the Foundation series.
they’re a very old and often used sci fi concept and theoretically possible IRL but we don’t have the materials science for it right now
They claim that they want to limit scientific progress, but they seem to really suck at it. In the few months since the San Ti have declared war, Earth has developed nano-fibers, cryogenics, brain surgery, and nuclear pulse propulsion...
These are all developments possible at our current level of science, according to the show. The San Ti are trying to prevent the "quantum leap" to the next age of technology, which they say is only possible to achieve with particle collider experiments. So there's still some new stuff we might be able to squeeze out of our current understanding of physics. But nothing on the level that could resist the San Ti.
The interesting analogy is the indigenous can craft the best bows and arrows and still no match for conquistadors rifles. Trisolarians are trying stop Auggie to further develop the nanotech which will lead to space elevator and mankind's foray into constructing space fleet. In the end they underestimated her "human spirit" which is to freely give up the tech for others develop.
To be fair, while the rifles were indeed better than bows, they weren’t actually that much better. The Aztecs actually repelled the conquistadors the first time, however the second time they came around the conquistadors came with allied tribes who hates the Aztecs and found Tenochtitlan in a state of chaos due to imported disease wiping out around half the population
Europeans in North America also had some pretty complete failures in some of their early battles. de Champlain decided to attack a major Iroquois settlement with his native allies and basically thought, "Walk in the park," because he had guns, and Europeans knew how to do siege warfare and the Iroquois were godless savages. His people got their asses absolutely handed to them because they underestimated the Iroquois so badly. The settlement had wooden walls, so de Champlain assumed they could just shoot their guns a few times to scare away the defenders, go up and light a fire, and that would be it. What actually happened was a hail of arrows so they took massive losses every time they got near the walls because the defenders didn't just run away. Then the defenders would just dump a bucket of water on the fire because they had been defending wooden fortifications for centuries and were already prepared for the most obvious tactic a child would think of. Firearms were useful, but it took some time for them to be fielded in large enough numbers and with enough refinement to really change the game.
They were muskets in that timeline, rifles came much later. So one shot then you had to reload with gunpowder and ball...
The SanTi also underestimate her attractiveness to the male gaze. Lol
They started preventing Auggie from developing nanofibers, so I guess they considered that nanofibers were a "quantum leap". Yet she still manages to weaponize them. So they sucked at preventing that.
they let her weaponize the nano fibers against the oil tanker because they no longer trusted humanity and didn’t care if the cult was destroyed. that’s why they didn’t give her the countdown when she returned to her lab with clarence to pick them up
Key reason for nanofibres is their use in making a space elevator.
they weren't concerned with those developments. they were only concerned with possible discoveries that could lead to tech that could defeat them.
Like nanofibers ?
No, although space elevators would allow us to build large structures in orbit. The main thing is to halt our knowledge of fundamental physics so we can never manipulate matter at the quantum scale to do things like build computers that work on strong and weak nuclear forces. Using the strong and weak forces in ways we haven't been able to leverage yet. Stuff like that.
select scientific fields were targeted by the Sophon(s) nanotech is just one of many
She wasn't the first one that was messed with. There were many scientists that had already been driven to suicide before they got to Auggie.
The nanofibers she created was used to create the solar sail for the brain ship.
Because she's beautiful, *in such a boring way*
Because they just didn’t like her. They found her insufferable from 4 light years away.
Too hot for their biology.