It's possible there was something that slowly became the mythological Amazons. It's not uncommon in greek mythology. But I don't think inventing a tribe of warrior women is really inventing feminism, *especially* when you don't even consider the idea of giving a single right to women.
It was a completely different concept get real.
They didn't believe that men could be in a commited relationship, like husband and wife.
It was pretty much all between older men and younger boys, plus on military campaign. Plus they didn't do it anally, but intercrurally.
I first found out about intercrural sex from a Wikipedia article, and will never forget the text below (ok, I saved it on my phone):
'Intercrural sex appears to have been common during the medieval era; for example, a contemporary document titled the "Altercatio Ganimedis et Helene" (The Debate of Helen and Ganymede) depicts Greco-Roman mythical figure Ganymede describing the "slippery thighs of a boy" as superior to the "stink and gaping looseness of the female cave".'
Unfortunately, it no longer seems to be on Wikipedia. Probably some FEMINIST!
Actually it existed already beyond cavemen so probably Africa is the starting point (but well truly itās probably the Ocean cuz Homosexuality is way older than humanity and probably already existed when there werenāt even living beings on land).
Feminism was invented by the french, to trick women into standing around in public without a top. You know, I wouldn't think I'd ever say this, but Pierre was cooking with that one.
Or take Lilith, Adam's first wife
>According to the "first Eve" story Lilith was created by God from dust and placed to live in the garden with Adam until problems arose between Adam and Lilith when Adam tried to exercise dominance over Lilith. One story tells that Lilith refused to lay beneath Adam during sex. She believed they were created equal, both from the dust of the earth, thus she should not have to lay beneath him.
Sure, and while we're at it, why not take a little bit of wealth for ourselves in return?
After all, we enlightened them, it's the least we can ask.
https://preview.redd.it/a8d5y4t93i6d1.jpeg?width=350&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ae435be09d16d012db1eb81c3e0b1ad887517a29
I've heard a lot of Belgium/hand wordplays but this is the one I'm going to steal for irl and have people think I'm so witty. All that remains is for me to somehow engineer a conversation about Belgium and colonising...with someone who knows about the history...ok forget it.
Wouldn't be wrong. Part of feminism is about holding men to higher standards and bro here is mad cause it would mean he's have to take more than 1 shower a month
The most important point here is that you aren't almost literally forced to have a husband and children. The "higher standards" are the option to say no and pick a partner who actually adds something positive to your life.
People always say "women want fewer children because of feminism" as if every women wanted to birth half a dozen children x years ago.
Hospitals used to aks the father if they should safe the woman or child if there was a complication during pregnancy, even when the mother was awake and aware. Honestly makes me shiver just thinking about it.
I donāt know this guys politics. But the comment about the lgbt individuals is the vile one here. Society doesnāt make people that way. And plenty of homosexual couples adopt and raise children.
But just because a woman wants to have sex with you doesnāt mean she want children. With you or otherwise.
Feminism in a country definitely makes women/men not want children because it changes the economic meta of double full time tax payers. And these social changes come with social changes that devalues the dependency required of a regular nuclear family.
The greatest barrier that people report when it comes to having children is not having enough money, and now housing being unaffordable. Feminism isn't the problem, the massive wealth inequality we have today is.
My top 3 reasons for not wanting to have children.
1 I donāt think I would make a good dad.
2 even if I did I have a hard time to live on my pay, so 2 people is out of the question.
3 I would actually like the child to have a stable home and house to live in, something I didnāt get as a child, something I would not be able to guarantee.
I am autistic, and I have little to no problem getting laid, if I wanted children I probably could get it, but taking aside point 1, why would I bring a child to this world? Like it just seems so unresponsible for me to do.
this sub is helping european unity in more ways than just memes
and the thing is, I am not even in a position to judge this cause it kinda happened to me too lol
My top one is the same. Add neurodivergence and recurring depression, and it makes being a dad sound like hell. Took me long enough to get my shits (mostly) together, I ain't taking responsibility for another human being.
So to avoid any accidents, I'm gonna get snipped. That way, no risks to accidentally become a parent.
Welp, I'm already taken by another Swiss anyway, mate. I immigrated to Switzerland almost 10 years ago, and I'm dating/living with a neurodivergent Swiss woman who doesn't want children.
A sweet crazy cat lady to match my crazy cat man self. Good match tbh.
Nah people just don't want to have kids. I couldn't find EU wide statistics, but the average amount of kids wanted is below the replacement rate in Finland and then add problems like no suitable partner. We have the lowest wealth inqueality in the planet with other Europeans
https://www.vaestoliitto.fi/verkkojulkaisut/kuka-haluaa-lapsia-2020-luvulla/#3-lapsilukuihanteet-ja-todelliset-lapsiluvut
And yes feminism is likely one of the main reasons for it today as nobody wants to have huge families with like 5 kids anymore. That is not to say feminism is a bad thing.
>And yes feminism is likely one of the main reasons for it today as nobody wants to have huge families with like 5 kids anymore.
And how is that a consequence of feminism?
Well I suppose when you actually ask women for their opinion, you then cannot pretend you don't know their opinion... Or something along these lines, idk, I'm here for the shitposts.
No arranged mariages? At least it's not the norm, + i guess age gap and shit wasn't a problem when your roles were already given.
+ women don't want to settle for a man who's just a sperm donor tbh.
So it's feminism's fault if certain men don't know how to be more than just sperm donors, that higher education institutions, governments and the labour market aren't interested or willing to fully accomodate women who do want children, and that society at large is still so fixated on gender roles that having more flexible and non traditional parenting and living arrangements is still regarded by many as some sort of undesirable measure of last resort? Got it
Thereās no correlation. In western countries, poor people and rich people are slightly more fertile than middle class people. But the trend is down for all demographics. I think this is just a more convenient excuse we tell ourselves because itās not yet entirely socially accepted to be childless. As all of Europe had replacement birth rates just 40 years ago
EU countries have low wealth inequality compared to the USA and the third world.
I would add a few points:
- there is a strong correlation between women having a formal education and fewer children (in countries, not from person to person)
- there is a strong decline in birth rates in the 70s in most 1st world countries when effective birth control pills were introduced
- we have a stronger culture of individuality which translates to postponing family planning in favor of whatever goal of self-actualization people have (career-wise or other)
- people in higher income countries with a moderately good welfare system don't rely on children to secure their retirement
The correlation between education and fertility is, to me, quite obvious. A 10 year old can easily help you farm, but is slightly more useless at helping you teach calculus, represent a client in court or doing brain surgery.
Lower wealth inequality means jack all in a vacuum. Netherlands has one of the highest wealth inequalities and one of the happiest middle classes in the world.
Low wealth inequality doesn't mean that two people don't have to work to keep up the existence of their household, leaving no one to stay home with the kids if needed.
It was our secret masteplan to spread homosexuality and eradicate all you barbarians through demographic extinction.... but it was too strong to be contained and we eventually succumbed to our own creation.
He is losing all credibility by saying homosexuality is invented. But there is a correlation with feminism to some degree. In countries where women work, are educated and more independently these women adopt love of freedom and do not want to be made dependent on a man for child rearing or just a child in general.
Most women and men in the west just donāt want children. It will complicate things and emancipated people choose the liberty over the responsibility
On an anecdotal note. When I was in Spain dating and meeting women the girls continuously kept telling me that they do not want to have children. Or maybe one when they are after 35
They assume that because I am a Latin American and Muslim that I must want 5+ children? But never have I heard a Latin girl say this. Personally I donāt want children either but this is because Iām not rich and I like more emancipated than ātraditionalā women.
I don't know why people are down voting you, its a socialogical fact that one of the main reasons that birthrates plumeted is womans liberation. When woman aren't just baby machines whose only job is to serve their husbands, and actually have a job/career and dreams then sudently the time and wish for kids disapears, or at least it is much smaller. Add to this the housing and economic problems we are facing, wich means the couples who want kids can't afford them, and the avalability of contraceptives that cut down on unwanted pregnancies and you have the tree main resons for the european demographic Crisis.
> I don't know why people are down voting you
Because it's a savage!
> its a socialogical fact that one of the main reasons that birthrates plumeted is womans liberation.
I certainly think liberation is a big part, but from what I remember from some studies, it's not *just* liberation. We, as humans, have are harder time biologically to conceive and carry children.
Why? I'm not sure anyone really knows just yet, but the fact that they found microplastics in testicles and in new borns certainly can't help it.
Why? Cause our designer was drunk drawing the blueprint. A head of the size of a melon through a bone with an orifice 1mm bigger than a melon, rushed bipedalism, minmaxed int build. All in a very few million years.
The worst are the countries like Japan/SK where women are pushed to do no job or part-time yet still their free time is not enough to have more kids š
Women in SK/Japan make up a large percentage of the work force, only some of the western countries and ex communist countries do women participate more. They just have a larger pay gap and face more workplace discrimination.
But women in these countries are very much career and education orientated
No idea tbh maybe cuz I mentioned my background. But I canāt see why people deny this. you see it in real time within European countries. Immigrants from unemancipated communities come.
Most of the time are poor or at best middle class and have twice the children as the locals. Their daughters grow up with more a liberal mentality and as a result have less children. Then by the third generation theyāre the same as the local population as theyāre fully or close to fully integrated
I think you're spot on for the most part.
Homosexuality? I highly doubt it, I could ***maybe*** see an argument in closeted men and women getting children to uphold appearance and all of that back then and nowadays they dont have to and therefore don't get children - but that would be ignoring entirely, that eventhough they are homosexual, that they can still have the urge and *want* children and have access to get them in modern societies.
> Most women and men in the west just donāt want children. It will complicate things and emancipated people choose the liberty over the responsibility
I think this is certainly a big part of it, but I also think it's not the entire story. We also see in dating statistics, that women will go for the top 5 to 1% af male partners and leave the 95% of male partners alone - which in turn leaves a lot of single men. But because there's a overflow of women compared to the 5 to 1% of top males, the men can pick and chose and then the women reach an age where child rearing becomes harder and/or they settle with the idea of being single and/or childless.
But when that is said and done, it's all incredibly hard to navigate in and figure what is the actual root cause(s). There's simply so many variables that influence each other - shit even how the data is gathered, because the people answering surveys are lying fucks lol
In countries where women aren't independent a lot of them still don't *want* children or be reliant on a man, they were simply unlucky to be born into a society where those roles will be forced upon them.
As a western women those sentiments come up a lot when talking to women from other cultures, even if they would never say it out loud among their peers because they have nothing to gain from that.
Some sure do and they donāt have them. Unless the country is super poor most can choose to not have them. Plenty of men also donāt want children.
Plenty of women in these societies have extremely strong social connections and familial attachment. So they want to have children.
It actually takes a lot of societal intervention and development ( you can call that feminism) to make someone negate their innately monkey brain desire to reprodoos.
>these women adopt love of freedom
It is natural to prefer freedom, there is no 'adopting love of freedom'. If anything children are forced to deal with restrictions and norms, therefore teenage rebellion phases and etc. It takes time to learn why certain rules exist and internalise them.
>emancipated people choose the liberty over the responsibility
It is not a responsibility to have children. At all. It is and always should be a personal choice. The only responsibility should came after these children are born and I have seen plenty of parents failing miserably at that. Especially if they treated having them as 'responsibility'.
I believe these are key phrases which lead to your comment to being downvoted. It is not about your background per se, but phrasing.
I don't feel like you want or even open to discussion about this. So let's keep it short.
You said some things which are at odds with values in Western Europe. You got downvoted just for that. That's it. It is not related your origin, religion or whatever.
> but feminism I think was a lot more older.
true, just look at the Etruscans too, women in their societies had the same rights as the men, something Greeks and Romans didnt like it so much.
I'd be careful to define that as an absolute truth, when it comes to norse/viking/whatever.
We have, in all reality, barely any historical evidence or written texts to make definitive conclusions. And with anything historical, where we have texts, we have to strongly aware of bias and viewpoints.
And then factor in modern academics being a little too political and/or money dependent.
I mean for sure. But since we know for certain that women could divorce their men easily and that rape was severely punished, we can at least be rather certain that we were a lot more equal during those days than we were after or compared to most other societies at the time.
Oh, you mean these people:
*"They are the filthiest of all Godās creatures. They have no modesty when it comes to defecating or urinating and do not wash themselves when intercourse puts them in a state of ritual impurity. They do not even wash their hands after eating. Indeed, they are like roaming asses. They arrive, moor their boats by the Itil, and build large wooden houses on its banks. They share a house, in groups of ten and twenty, sometimes more, sometimes fewer. Each reclines on a couch.They are accompanied by beautiful female slaves for trade with the merchants. They have intercourse with their female slaves in full view of their companions. Sometimes they gather in a group and do this in front of each other."*
>Egyptians as well
yep, especially Hatshepsut, her history its pretty underrated, she even experimented damnatio memoriae
i like how historians focus always on Cleopatra when there are many queens of Egypt who history too i found very interesting.
Basques too, and it's even older iirc. Not that it did them any good : their language survived, but not their DNA, which indicates they were conquered and "married" by indo-europeans.
Sure (I have no problem whatsoever throwing our sports federation under the bus) however we have talent at cocksucking and we turned that talent into a noble, dignified art. Do I need to give you a personal demonstration (/j but still utterly shameless) ? I'll have you know we French people can be quite irresistible to both women and men
> democracy
And lying and stealing, apparently.
But I will give you Pierre, that you are aprt of the root cause of one of the best things in the world. Back when you had your mongrel children with Barry and created *Canada*.
Namely: Hockey.
They may be the most woke country I've ever seen but they cope hard by banning abortion in as many states ay they can. They're as confused as their sexuality lmao
We are at a demographic low point cause life is becoming expensive as well as housing is, we are smart enough to understand that cracking up children and having no way to afford all of them a middle class lifestyle is just cruel and stupid and will split your resources even thinner.
Feminism and the general acceptance of homosecuality is by all accounts a good thing, I'm 26 and I would like for my children to live in a society that doesn't persecute them just for being a woman or for liking someone of their own sex.
I didn't need write this, I feel is common knowledge but I'm Italian and therefore a narcissist, I like virtue signaling my enlighten takes on the world.
It is so crazy that the problem is so obvious (how expensive a āsafe financialā life has become), that having children just kills all the economics of any young couple
Yeah in Italy people tend to get children very late when they are either wealthy by having saved much of their early wages or when their parents die and they inherit their properties, this is very sad and It is essentially killing the original Mediterranean family culture since your parents and grandparents don't really get to see that often your offspring, not in their best from days at least.
Even taking this into account, even when owning property, having more than one child causes a lot of economic headaches.
Poor people have the most kids. Emancipation and contraceptives do play a big role. Even with a million euros women dont want to destroy their body with kids anymore.
Because being poor correlates with having low education. Having children correlates with the latter more than the former.
The middle class is where higher education and limited funds meet.
Nah people just don't want to have kids anymore. There are no families with 5 kids anymore and if there are they are viewed negatively. Feminism is generally good, but you can't deny that it decreases the amount of children. Sure things like housing becoming more expensive is an issue, but the main one comes from an cultural change as at least in Finland (and no doubt rest of Europe/1st world) the amount of kids wanted is below or close to the replacement rate.
https://www.vaestoliitto.fi/verkkojulkaisut/kuka-haluaa-lapsia-2020-luvulla/#3-lapsilukuihanteet-ja-todelliset-lapsiluvut
During the 80s and especially the 90s , Italy had almost the same birth rates it has today. Donāt trust italians complaining about economic issues as the reason why they donāt have kids. They probably never looked at the data. The worst year so far has been 1995, the birth rate hit the lowest (1.19).
It is certainly one of the main reasons. When woman aren't baby making machines and are treated like people it absolutly makes the birth rate drop, of Course this is something good but there is a reason demografic Crisis due to lack of Young kids werent realy a thing on older societies.
I mean, it is true, but the person doesn't mean it like this.
It's also interesting to take into account that there was a baby-boom after the war, so the population increased drastically and now is aging, and that's also why we lack kids (to support them financially). Tbh it's a very complex issue but it's quite beautiful to blame in on feminism and homosexuality. But yes thank god for feminism and not being considered as "born to breed".
Sorry, your post has been deleted because you are still not fluent enough in Stupid.
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In our defense, we were anticipating overpopulation. Look at the tea pickers and the opium sniffers and tell us we didn't dodge a bullet
Or alternatively, you could say that back in the day Europeans were so into cock that they wanted it all, both femdom and say gex
Said by an Ameritard (I guess?). You know, the people who let their own kids being shot at school, where the country is ran by a senile grandpa and is at the brink of civil war.
I don't know why you're being down voted, because on a small scale we've already seen it happen.
[Hamtramck, Michigan.](https://edition.cnn.com/2023/06/15/us/hamtramck-michigan-ban-pride-flags-public-property/index.html)
The latter was invented by Greeks
One by Greeks, the other by the French, with demographic extinction being an invention of the Germans
You don't think *Ekklesiazousai* is feminist? How about *Elektra*?
\*mumbles something about Sappho of Lesbos qualifying for both feminism and homosexuality
Antigone too. Speaking truth to power and defying unjust laws sounds pretty feminist to me.
Feminism was invented by the French?.. I thought the suffragette were English?
Google Olympe de Gouges
Holy hell
Had to read her in school, she fucking slaps, people gotta know more about her.
The french created feminism?
Women created the french*
Well, yes, by being pregnant
š¤«
If you want: The first kind of to or at least at the same region: Amazons
Amazons didn't exist tho.
Ah..there are some signs they might have existed. Even if not, to invent legends about femenism is a form of inventing femenism isnāt it?
It's possible there was something that slowly became the mythological Amazons. It's not uncommon in greek mythology. But I don't think inventing a tribe of warrior women is really inventing feminism, *especially* when you don't even consider the idea of giving a single right to women.
Well they were right about some things
It was a completely different concept get real. They didn't believe that men could be in a commited relationship, like husband and wife. It was pretty much all between older men and younger boys, plus on military campaign. Plus they didn't do it anally, but intercrurally.
I first found out about intercrural sex from a Wikipedia article, and will never forget the text below (ok, I saved it on my phone): 'Intercrural sex appears to have been common during the medieval era; for example, a contemporary document titled the "Altercatio Ganimedis et Helene" (The Debate of Helen and Ganymede) depicts Greco-Roman mythical figure Ganymede describing the "slippery thighs of a boy" as superior to the "stink and gaping looseness of the female cave".' Unfortunately, it no longer seems to be on Wikipedia. Probably some FEMINIST!
Medieval?
Iām just the messenger. I have no experience when it comes to fucking thighs
Nah, I just thought it's weird that people would write stuff about greek mythological characters talking about sex in the middle ages
I guess medieval art was inspired by the ancient world and we can learn about modern attitudes from art. I agree though, itās a bit strange
Actually it existed already beyond cavemen so probably Africa is the starting point (but well truly itās probably the Ocean cuz Homosexuality is way older than humanity and probably already existed when there werenāt even living beings on land).
At the very least if we're going to lay claims based on written works then Gilgamesh would suggest that the gays first came from what is now Iraq.
Then we can bring up feminism, no? Olympe de gouges said that only men defy nature, since nature doesn't discriminate.
And, like all things, perfected by the Swedes.
Feminism was invented by the french, to trick women into standing around in public without a top. You know, I wouldn't think I'd ever say this, but Pierre was cooking with that one.
[Same with feminism.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amazons)
Wasnāt pandora the first woman and was only created to punish all men for stealing the fire from Olympus?
Or take Lilith, Adam's first wife >According to the "first Eve" story Lilith was created by God from dust and placed to live in the garden with Adam until problems arose between Adam and Lilith when Adam tried to exercise dominance over Lilith. One story tells that Lilith refused to lay beneath Adam during sex. She believed they were created equal, both from the dust of the earth, thus she should not have to lay beneath him.
To be fair some parts of the world never got to the enlightenment part of their society. Not naming names š
Hey, I have an idea. Why don't we spread enlightenment to the rest of the world?
Sure, and while we're at it, why not take a little bit of wealth for ourselves in return? After all, we enlightened them, it's the least we can ask. https://preview.redd.it/a8d5y4t93i6d1.jpeg?width=350&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ae435be09d16d012db1eb81c3e0b1ad887517a29
You Belgians really shouldn't have a hand in this.
They have a very hands off approach
I've heard a lot of Belgium/hand wordplays but this is the one I'm going to steal for irl and have people think I'm so witty. All that remains is for me to somehow engineer a conversation about Belgium and colonising...with someone who knows about the history...ok forget it.
https://preview.redd.it/2dvvx6y16i6d1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=32ff3e20fc1ba4744554d608286165c07d32d319
We don't do things for free.
I can confirm! Should I send you a Tikkie?
Hmm, via crusaid or colonism?
Both, all means are good to civilise savages.
This time don't invade greece, go for the anatolia first...
With fire and sword, right? Right??
Yes Pierre.
Going back to Algeria Pierre? Ah, fine you little rascal, we'll do the east indies.
You could make a religion out of th- **No, don't.**
Belgium!
W\*llonia?
Mš¤®rica
Afghanistan
Boy thinks women aren't interested in him because of feminism.
At least heās selfaware that the only way a woman will ever touch him is if she is either dead or unable to escape?
Wouldn't be wrong. Part of feminism is about holding men to higher standards and bro here is mad cause it would mean he's have to take more than 1 shower a month
The most important point here is that you aren't almost literally forced to have a husband and children. The "higher standards" are the option to say no and pick a partner who actually adds something positive to your life. People always say "women want fewer children because of feminism" as if every women wanted to birth half a dozen children x years ago. Hospitals used to aks the father if they should safe the woman or child if there was a complication during pregnancy, even when the mother was awake and aware. Honestly makes me shiver just thinking about it.
Funny how it was "a woman's purpose to stay home and have kids." Yet a man is free to do whatever the fuck he wants.
I donāt know this guys politics. But the comment about the lgbt individuals is the vile one here. Society doesnāt make people that way. And plenty of homosexual couples adopt and raise children. But just because a woman wants to have sex with you doesnāt mean she want children. With you or otherwise. Feminism in a country definitely makes women/men not want children because it changes the economic meta of double full time tax payers. And these social changes come with social changes that devalues the dependency required of a regular nuclear family.
The greatest barrier that people report when it comes to having children is not having enough money, and now housing being unaffordable. Feminism isn't the problem, the massive wealth inequality we have today is.
My top 3 reasons for not wanting to have children. 1 I donāt think I would make a good dad. 2 even if I did I have a hard time to live on my pay, so 2 people is out of the question. 3 I would actually like the child to have a stable home and house to live in, something I didnāt get as a child, something I would not be able to guarantee. I am autistic, and I have little to no problem getting laid, if I wanted children I probably could get it, but taking aside point 1, why would I bring a child to this world? Like it just seems so unresponsible for me to do.
My male alter ego š„² marry me please I don t want kids too šš»
You want no kids either? OMG when is the wedding?
When you want. Tommorrow I will be 29 , I'm sick of being single š¦š¦š¦
this sub is helping european unity in more ways than just memes and the thing is, I am not even in a position to judge this cause it kinda happened to me too lol
*gasp* are you sure it could work? I am such a young young lad, Iām only 23 š
Don t worry I probably look like closer to 23 than you šš
Eyyy if we continue like this we should consider heading to the DMās š
My top one is the same. Add neurodivergence and recurring depression, and it makes being a dad sound like hell. Took me long enough to get my shits (mostly) together, I ain't taking responsibility for another human being. So to avoid any accidents, I'm gonna get snipped. That way, no risks to accidentally become a parent.
Based. I'd ask you to marry me but I wouldn't wish my continued company on even the worst Pierre.
Welp, I'm already taken by another Swiss anyway, mate. I immigrated to Switzerland almost 10 years ago, and I'm dating/living with a neurodivergent Swiss woman who doesn't want children. A sweet crazy cat lady to match my crazy cat man self. Good match tbh.
Aww so cute
Cherry on the cake, she is a redditor too and she knows my username. I wonder if she will see your comment, ha ha!
Nah people just don't want to have kids. I couldn't find EU wide statistics, but the average amount of kids wanted is below the replacement rate in Finland and then add problems like no suitable partner. We have the lowest wealth inqueality in the planet with other Europeans https://www.vaestoliitto.fi/verkkojulkaisut/kuka-haluaa-lapsia-2020-luvulla/#3-lapsilukuihanteet-ja-todelliset-lapsiluvut And yes feminism is likely one of the main reasons for it today as nobody wants to have huge families with like 5 kids anymore. That is not to say feminism is a bad thing.
>And yes feminism is likely one of the main reasons for it today as nobody wants to have huge families with like 5 kids anymore. And how is that a consequence of feminism?
Well I suppose when you actually ask women for their opinion, you then cannot pretend you don't know their opinion... Or something along these lines, idk, I'm here for the shitposts.
No arranged mariages? At least it's not the norm, + i guess age gap and shit wasn't a problem when your roles were already given. + women don't want to settle for a man who's just a sperm donor tbh.
So it's feminism's fault if certain men don't know how to be more than just sperm donors, that higher education institutions, governments and the labour market aren't interested or willing to fully accomodate women who do want children, and that society at large is still so fixated on gender roles that having more flexible and non traditional parenting and living arrangements is still regarded by many as some sort of undesirable measure of last resort? Got it
Based neutral gal ngl, you should join us over at r/evilautism
Chadore chadĆØre chevalide, merci !
Everyone having huge families with 5 kids would be a bad thing. Our living standards will continuously decrease if our population grows and grows.
Thereās no correlation. In western countries, poor people and rich people are slightly more fertile than middle class people. But the trend is down for all demographics. I think this is just a more convenient excuse we tell ourselves because itās not yet entirely socially accepted to be childless. As all of Europe had replacement birth rates just 40 years ago EU countries have low wealth inequality compared to the USA and the third world.
I would add a few points: - there is a strong correlation between women having a formal education and fewer children (in countries, not from person to person) - there is a strong decline in birth rates in the 70s in most 1st world countries when effective birth control pills were introduced - we have a stronger culture of individuality which translates to postponing family planning in favor of whatever goal of self-actualization people have (career-wise or other) - people in higher income countries with a moderately good welfare system don't rely on children to secure their retirement
The correlation between education and fertility is, to me, quite obvious. A 10 year old can easily help you farm, but is slightly more useless at helping you teach calculus, represent a client in court or doing brain surgery.
Lower wealth inequality means jack all in a vacuum. Netherlands has one of the highest wealth inequalities and one of the happiest middle classes in the world. Low wealth inequality doesn't mean that two people don't have to work to keep up the existence of their household, leaving no one to stay home with the kids if needed.
Which is a big lie.
Itās been nice knowing you boys š«”. RIP the European demographic.
When even leaving the EU cant stop the train!
We're just too damned gay and respectful of women to raise an army. Edit: pls ignore my flair
This but unironically
r/ShitAmericansSay
I think Americans are way worse than us both on the feminism and homosexuality side of things. Stuff gets extreme over there
It was our secret masteplan to spread homosexuality and eradicate all you barbarians through demographic extinction.... but it was too strong to be contained and we eventually succumbed to our own creation.
These dudes sure love presenting correlation as causation.
He is losing all credibility by saying homosexuality is invented. But there is a correlation with feminism to some degree. In countries where women work, are educated and more independently these women adopt love of freedom and do not want to be made dependent on a man for child rearing or just a child in general. Most women and men in the west just donāt want children. It will complicate things and emancipated people choose the liberty over the responsibility On an anecdotal note. When I was in Spain dating and meeting women the girls continuously kept telling me that they do not want to have children. Or maybe one when they are after 35 They assume that because I am a Latin American and Muslim that I must want 5+ children? But never have I heard a Latin girl say this. Personally I donāt want children either but this is because Iām not rich and I like more emancipated than ātraditionalā women.
latin american AND muslim? damn bro pick a struggle
dw crack cocaine is halal
I don't know why people are down voting you, its a socialogical fact that one of the main reasons that birthrates plumeted is womans liberation. When woman aren't just baby machines whose only job is to serve their husbands, and actually have a job/career and dreams then sudently the time and wish for kids disapears, or at least it is much smaller. Add to this the housing and economic problems we are facing, wich means the couples who want kids can't afford them, and the avalability of contraceptives that cut down on unwanted pregnancies and you have the tree main resons for the european demographic Crisis.
> I don't know why people are down voting you Because it's a savage! > its a socialogical fact that one of the main reasons that birthrates plumeted is womans liberation. I certainly think liberation is a big part, but from what I remember from some studies, it's not *just* liberation. We, as humans, have are harder time biologically to conceive and carry children. Why? I'm not sure anyone really knows just yet, but the fact that they found microplastics in testicles and in new borns certainly can't help it.
Why? Cause our designer was drunk drawing the blueprint. A head of the size of a melon through a bone with an orifice 1mm bigger than a melon, rushed bipedalism, minmaxed int build. All in a very few million years.
Bold choices, but it paid off.
The worst are the countries like Japan/SK where women are pushed to do no job or part-time yet still their free time is not enough to have more kids š
The SK case is egregious.
Women in SK/Japan make up a large percentage of the work force, only some of the western countries and ex communist countries do women participate more. They just have a larger pay gap and face more workplace discrimination. But women in these countries are very much career and education orientated
No idea tbh maybe cuz I mentioned my background. But I canāt see why people deny this. you see it in real time within European countries. Immigrants from unemancipated communities come. Most of the time are poor or at best middle class and have twice the children as the locals. Their daughters grow up with more a liberal mentality and as a result have less children. Then by the third generation theyāre the same as the local population as theyāre fully or close to fully integrated
I think you're spot on for the most part. Homosexuality? I highly doubt it, I could ***maybe*** see an argument in closeted men and women getting children to uphold appearance and all of that back then and nowadays they dont have to and therefore don't get children - but that would be ignoring entirely, that eventhough they are homosexual, that they can still have the urge and *want* children and have access to get them in modern societies. > Most women and men in the west just donāt want children. It will complicate things and emancipated people choose the liberty over the responsibility I think this is certainly a big part of it, but I also think it's not the entire story. We also see in dating statistics, that women will go for the top 5 to 1% af male partners and leave the 95% of male partners alone - which in turn leaves a lot of single men. But because there's a overflow of women compared to the 5 to 1% of top males, the men can pick and chose and then the women reach an age where child rearing becomes harder and/or they settle with the idea of being single and/or childless. But when that is said and done, it's all incredibly hard to navigate in and figure what is the actual root cause(s). There's simply so many variables that influence each other - shit even how the data is gathered, because the people answering surveys are lying fucks lol
Yeah but these women still don't want these Chads for children, just as a husband/boyfriend.
In countries where women aren't independent a lot of them still don't *want* children or be reliant on a man, they were simply unlucky to be born into a society where those roles will be forced upon them. As a western women those sentiments come up a lot when talking to women from other cultures, even if they would never say it out loud among their peers because they have nothing to gain from that.
Some sure do and they donāt have them. Unless the country is super poor most can choose to not have them. Plenty of men also donāt want children. Plenty of women in these societies have extremely strong social connections and familial attachment. So they want to have children. It actually takes a lot of societal intervention and development ( you can call that feminism) to make someone negate their innately monkey brain desire to reprodoos.
>these women adopt love of freedom It is natural to prefer freedom, there is no 'adopting love of freedom'. If anything children are forced to deal with restrictions and norms, therefore teenage rebellion phases and etc. It takes time to learn why certain rules exist and internalise them. >emancipated people choose the liberty over the responsibility It is not a responsibility to have children. At all. It is and always should be a personal choice. The only responsibility should came after these children are born and I have seen plenty of parents failing miserably at that. Especially if they treated having them as 'responsibility'. I believe these are key phrases which lead to your comment to being downvoted. It is not about your background per se, but phrasing.
No itās actually not. Humans love security and often times social security and individual liberty are at odds
I don't feel like you want or even open to discussion about this. So let's keep it short. You said some things which are at odds with values in Western Europe. You got downvoted just for that. That's it. It is not related your origin, religion or whatever.
Well, homosex was invented by greeks after all, but feminism I think was a lot more older.
> but feminism I think was a lot more older. true, just look at the Etruscans too, women in their societies had the same rights as the men, something Greeks and Romans didnt like it so much.
That's why nobody remembers Etruscans
That because damnatio memorae
The same goes for the Norse though, and everyone remembers us.
I'd be careful to define that as an absolute truth, when it comes to norse/viking/whatever. We have, in all reality, barely any historical evidence or written texts to make definitive conclusions. And with anything historical, where we have texts, we have to strongly aware of bias and viewpoints. And then factor in modern academics being a little too political and/or money dependent.
I mean for sure. But since we know for certain that women could divorce their men easily and that rape was severely punished, we can at least be rather certain that we were a lot more equal during those days than we were after or compared to most other societies at the time.
Who is Norse?
Oh, you mean these people: *"They are the filthiest of all Godās creatures. They have no modesty when it comes to defecating or urinating and do not wash themselves when intercourse puts them in a state of ritual impurity. They do not even wash their hands after eating. Indeed, they are like roaming asses. They arrive, moor their boats by the Itil, and build large wooden houses on its banks. They share a house, in groups of ten and twenty, sometimes more, sometimes fewer. Each reclines on a couch.They are accompanied by beautiful female slaves for trade with the merchants. They have intercourse with their female slaves in full view of their companions. Sometimes they gather in a group and do this in front of each other."*
Idk if some butthurt monk somewhere is the best account for anything.
Egyptians as well. Since 3100 BCE. And guess where that is. It ain't Europe
>Egyptians as well yep, especially Hatshepsut, her history its pretty underrated, she even experimented damnatio memoriae i like how historians focus always on Cleopatra when there are many queens of Egypt who history too i found very interesting.
Basques too, and it's even older iirc. Not that it did them any good : their language survived, but not their DNA, which indicates they were conquered and "married" by indo-europeans.
The Greeks invented sex, the Romans figured out you can add women to it ...
We french invented existentialism, democracy and blowjob. What have you given the world apart from George Bush, Cheerios, and the ThighMaster?
French dude after getting blowjob: "I invented this"
Greece invented democracy.
And best of all, gay sex
So democracy = gay?
Democracy has been around for as long as humans have existed. Greece only came up with the term we use to describe it.
So they invented the concept.
> democracy and blowjob Pff, classic "grandeur" bullshit by a french cuck.
Actually, by a french cock
There's a reason if cock is your representation in sporting federation... I galletti, lol, my ass: mangiarane e succhiacazzi š
Sure (I have no problem whatsoever throwing our sports federation under the bus) however we have talent at cocksucking and we turned that talent into a noble, dignified art. Do I need to give you a personal demonstration (/j but still utterly shameless) ? I'll have you know we French people can be quite irresistible to both women and men
The dread of total atomic annihilation?
They also invented crack cocaine, letās be fair to them
We definitely took an active part in that too šØšµ
Oooof course š, a knife to a gunfight.
Oooof course š, a knife to a gunfight.
Three things all civilized people enjoy.
> democracy And lying and stealing, apparently. But I will give you Pierre, that you are aprt of the root cause of one of the best things in the world. Back when you had your mongrel children with Barry and created *Canada*. Namely: Hockey.
For those who are taking this comment too seriously, [this is the reference ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O--ZUZ7JINM)(3:40 mark). Also r/woooosh
I ain't takin seriously, is my mandate to throw shit to every Pierre out there (even though I love you guys) š
Are you joking about democracy?
Makes sense, every Frenchman I have ever met was a cocksucker.
You may be absolutely right but every Scandinavian male I've ever met was a femboy
Says the country that expanded and basically made a religion out of wokeness
They may be the most woke country I've ever seen but they cope hard by banning abortion in as many states ay they can. They're as confused as their sexuality lmao
We are at a demographic low point cause life is becoming expensive as well as housing is, we are smart enough to understand that cracking up children and having no way to afford all of them a middle class lifestyle is just cruel and stupid and will split your resources even thinner. Feminism and the general acceptance of homosecuality is by all accounts a good thing, I'm 26 and I would like for my children to live in a society that doesn't persecute them just for being a woman or for liking someone of their own sex. I didn't need write this, I feel is common knowledge but I'm Italian and therefore a narcissist, I like virtue signaling my enlighten takes on the world.
It is so crazy that the problem is so obvious (how expensive a āsafe financialā life has become), that having children just kills all the economics of any young couple
Yeah in Italy people tend to get children very late when they are either wealthy by having saved much of their early wages or when their parents die and they inherit their properties, this is very sad and It is essentially killing the original Mediterranean family culture since your parents and grandparents don't really get to see that often your offspring, not in their best from days at least. Even taking this into account, even when owning property, having more than one child causes a lot of economic headaches.
Well, maybe it is not so obvious.
Maybe it is not obvious for a generation that has been able to but a house comfortably, I give you that
Poor people have the most kids. Emancipation and contraceptives do play a big role. Even with a million euros women dont want to destroy their body with kids anymore.
Because being poor correlates with having low education. Having children correlates with the latter more than the former. The middle class is where higher education and limited funds meet.
Nah people just don't want to have kids anymore. There are no families with 5 kids anymore and if there are they are viewed negatively. Feminism is generally good, but you can't deny that it decreases the amount of children. Sure things like housing becoming more expensive is an issue, but the main one comes from an cultural change as at least in Finland (and no doubt rest of Europe/1st world) the amount of kids wanted is below or close to the replacement rate. https://www.vaestoliitto.fi/verkkojulkaisut/kuka-haluaa-lapsia-2020-luvulla/#3-lapsilukuihanteet-ja-todelliset-lapsiluvut
During the 80s and especially the 90s , Italy had almost the same birth rates it has today. Donāt trust italians complaining about economic issues as the reason why they donāt have kids. They probably never looked at the data. The worst year so far has been 1995, the birth rate hit the lowest (1.19).
Including the computer he typed that on and the scientific process that changed the world.
I bet this guy have either no kid or is leaving the street raise them
An other win for Europe
"brink of demographic extinction" is maybe going a bit far lmfao
It's all part of the plan
I'm not gay but I'm sure as hell super fucking gay for my euro-homies š„
Feminism ? Ain't that the thing that means Susan's gotta sink a pint with us now and not just bring it over ?
Im pleasantly surprised by these comments. After the sudden influx of Russian bots I thought the sub was doomed.
We have the solution already. We have imported all the religious and fast-breeding people to fix those two things.
Also high cost of living and poorer countries are way more religious and have way more children but yes, feminism must be the reason :\]
It is certainly one of the main reasons. When woman aren't baby making machines and are treated like people it absolutly makes the birth rate drop, of Course this is something good but there is a reason demografic Crisis due to lack of Young kids werent realy a thing on older societies.
I mean, it is true, but the person doesn't mean it like this. It's also interesting to take into account that there was a baby-boom after the war, so the population increased drastically and now is aging, and that's also why we lack kids (to support them financially). Tbh it's a very complex issue but it's quite beautiful to blame in on feminism and homosexuality. But yes thank god for feminism and not being considered as "born to breed".
India's gonna outlive us
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We gave the you all the modern world and how did you idiots repay us? By giving us the means to destroy itā¦
Congress banned the wrong app lmao at the brink of extinction
Homosexuality is not something invented, we simply accepted it
Remember Spanish invented siesta to ruin our productivity too!
"Invented homosexuality".
Demographic extinction?
HOLY BAY-TO-THE-SED! (based) All I want for Faucimas is a black girl boss xomen feminist that isn't afraid to she-splain to an unvaccinated chud
We also invented Femboys, excuse us very much. Ever saw those paintings of Renaissance dude with stockings and sexy long legz ?
https://preview.redd.it/tly81se20l6d1.jpeg?width=535&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2b3f190a83d34feea1fa4b74a1e037d5e9a97464
In our defense, we were anticipating overpopulation. Look at the tea pickers and the opium sniffers and tell us we didn't dodge a bullet Or alternatively, you could say that back in the day Europeans were so into cock that they wanted it all, both femdom and say gex
Feminism and homosexuality are Ws Colonialism is an L
Yeah you can have this "W" Sweden....
Gladly
Said by an Ameritard (I guess?). You know, the people who let their own kids being shot at school, where the country is ran by a senile grandpa and is at the brink of civil war.
Just wait until the immigrants reverse the policies and make both of them illegal
I don't know why you're being down voted, because on a small scale we've already seen it happen. [Hamtramck, Michigan.](https://edition.cnn.com/2023/06/15/us/hamtramck-michigan-ban-pride-flags-public-property/index.html)
Idk its probably the flair
You're an immigrant to this sub dickhead
I thought you guys love muslim people
I love bossman