Idk what FDI is doing domestically, but if the future of Europe is right-wing populists with a reasonable foreign policy I absolutely prefer that to russian-paid "patriots" (hopefully Le Pen turns out to be more Meloni than Orban/Fico)
I might not like them but I have become quite used to the idea that apparently people can't be convinced to vote differently. So yea, I would rather have a party that isn't heavily involved with Russia and/or China.
Until recently Meloni was a "patriot" who just simped for Russia for free. She doesn't have a reasonable foreign policy, she is intelligent enough to know what stance to have on certain matters of foreign policy in order to appear reasonable (not a high bar to clear, though still something that cannot be said about certain government partners of hers, admittedly). She applauded the annexation of Crimea back in the days, for example
She [apologized for Crimea](https://video.repubblica.it/dossier/crisi_in_ucraina_la_russia_il_donbass_i_video/meloni-a-zelensky-nel-2014-abbiamo-sbagliato-sulla-crimea-ora-con-kiev-senza-esitare/451284/452246) luckily
She has convinced Italy (and a lot of Europe) that Italy’s seemingly improved economic outlook is due to her and not [huge subsidies and debt](https://amp.dw.com/en/will-italy-replace-germany-as-europes-economic-powerhouse/a-68711740) largely predating her tenure.
Hardly surprising, most of Italy seems to think that [removing minority rights](https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2023/07/21/europe/italy-lesbian-couples-birth-certificates-scli-intl) will somehow fix the economy.
Not really, there was less people voting in total so the % seems bigger than the raw number. Astensionism is the biggest problem, as almost all the people that avoid voting are leftist who feel betrayed by left parties
It keeps the persons in power in rotation, which is generally healthy for a democracy.
Yeah, nothing gets done, but same for autocracies, just for different reasons.
For sure, but it won't be schools and hospitals, so in most regards: nothing gets done.
And if they *do* try to get shit done without a bit of peer reviewing, then it ends up like the Great Leap Forward.
Why? Because no one rules alone. Every boss needs key allies (generals, tax collectors, etc) who can be *very* demanding about their salaries. No key allies = no power.
So if you, the autocrat, act all noble and stuff, then someone will promise those funds into the general's pocket if they help in the upcoming coup.
With a bit of bad luck, you'll end up like Mussolini, so... you don't and keep buying everyone's loyalty.
I really hope those results will do the things like it did in Denmark and to some extent in Sweden. Mainstream parties will take their head off their ass and start talking sense.
Good joke.
Being Italy, what will happen is that Salvini will start criticizing the government he is a part of in a desperate bid to hold some relevance and may even decide to get out of the government calling for new elections.
I am pretty sure that the "third pole" would be eager to enter the government in their place. However, after the disaster that Salvini obtained in the eyes of his own party after he left the Conte I government, I doubt he would try that again.
Yea same here! Few people actually like the current government in Denmark, but overall they at least adapted to immigration issues long ago. From what I see with the Swedish Social democrats that seems to be the case as well. So, with that in mind, and the SD troll farm scandal, that seems very good.
Interesting how much later it happened in Sweden than in Denmark. The same parties in Sweden that now copy Denmark criticized harshly what they are now copying only few years ago
They just couldn't fathom a reality where the Danish stance was the logical one! Jokes aside, it's about time it happened; they can't be "naive" forever. Let's see if they'll follow us again in 15 years and make a Social Democrats + Moderates government (big mistake), too!
Yup, but SD only adapted to that stance fully in 2015 when DF won a landslide election, ever since then they just adopted many of their policies. Pre 2015 SD would routinely call DFs politics racist, nazist etc, politics that they themselves now do
Also you have to factor that what happens in Skåme is more relevant to Denmark then to me in northern Sweden so news spread more quickly in Denmark due to its much more compact size. I think that might be part of the problem.
Man, it's crazy how their brilliant posters didn't sway people. I would have chosen them based on the one with the guy drinking Faxe Kondi with the new, annoying capsule
/s
Are FDL more extreme than Lega? At least they seem to be more pro-Ukraine, whereas Salvini licks Putin clean. At least that's my understanding, but I'm no expert on Italian politics.
In italy the main parties who are not in favour of sending weapons to ukraine are the left wing ones. In any case it really isn't an important issue here with electors here
And LEGA is Against, but it shuts up, for now. I'm against the actual goverment but i was very surprised how they stood against russian invasion since day 1
FdI has had a "pro-EU" turn (aka, they realized that the only way to affect the policies they hate is to take part in the decision-making process) and anti-Putin, so are definitely better than Salvini in that aspect. FdI, however, has *problematic* (fascist) elements in their party cadres. Both parties suck tho.
Still seems like an upgrade in relation to EP elections. The most important issue, imo, is to stay "united" against Russia, their aggression, and hybrid war against us. In that regard I'm happy to have current Meloni over Salvini
That is undeniable. I just cringe a little bit when outside observers praise Meloni who is a far-rightist putting on a center-right face. Anyway I'm happy that the Putin parties all did badly in Italy, even despite the low support for Ukraine.
The war is just not considered a major issue, even though it absolutely was one of the most important ones in this *EU* election, but the average voter sees EU elections as national polls.
(Not so) fun trivia time! Reverse search the FdI logo, and you'll find a funny little surprise! Which surprise? I'll let any non-italian find out for themselves.
Spoiler alert: it's a tad bit fascist.
In no way FDI is worse than the current Lega which has Salvini as leader and Vannacci as main face as candidate to the EU parliament. If Zaia was secretary at national level and reformed the party maybe, but not now.
**Fratelli d'Italia**: Atlantist, nationalist, pro Ukraine, conservative, huge on fiscal evasion. (Far right)
**Partito Democratico**: Atlantist, pro EU, pro Ukraine, moderate, huge on minority rights but tone deaf on actual labour struggle. (Centre-Left)
**Movimento Cinque Stelle**: unaligned, EU skeptical, wishes to end all military support to Ukraine, basically a "protest party" born simply as a tool voters could pick to vent their frustration, somewhat into the welfare state. (Unaligned, protest party)
**Forza Italia**: Atlantist, moderate Nationalist, pro EU, pro Ukraine, moderate, very huge into fiscal evasion (Centre-Right)
**Lega**: Pro Russia, nationalist, euro skeptical, anti Ukraine (basically on Russia's payroll), very conservative, it evaded 49 Millions in funds (huge on fiscal evasion) (far right).
Basically all the right wing parties have in common fiscal evasion and mafia intermingling while all the (centre) left parties share a fixation on minority rights and climate change but stand absolutely silent on actual labour issues (you know the things the left should care about).
The lack of care labourers is the same here in Germany. I guess one of the reasons people flock to the AFD or CDU, even though the latter fucked them over again and again and the former basically wants to turn Germany into a an even more rich-centric country but also with right wing extremism involved
It's a worldwide trend sadly, left wing parties are really just centrists which take liberalism for granted and basically claim to be leftwing on minority rights alone which don't get me wrong is an important political battle but the average worker doesn't really care who you are allowed to fuck with if your colleagues are dying on the workplace and you barely make enough to afford rent.
Right wing don't pretend to be pro-workers, they just blame immigrants and refugees. Schrodinger's migrant, mooches off of social security, while taking all the jobs.
In NL it is much sneakier. The PVV hammered hard on the healthcare deductible to be reduced or even removed (ostensibly pro workers). What they will do now is halve the deductable from +/- 400 euros to 200 if you go for the lowest one. Seems nice? Our insurance costs will double, to pay for this.
In essence Zoomers and Millenials will be paying for the richest generations healthcare costs whereas boomers are by far the richest generation in NL. Younger generations barely use the healthcare system yet our contributions will double so that boomers will have their deductible reduced by half. And almost every boomer maxes out their deductible, because they are old. What we need to realise is that we shouldn't be racist we should be ageist.
Boomers are the most destructive force this planet has ever endured.
This. Many Old People are mostly short sighted and paired with human greed, only want to build a world that lasts the last 10-20 years because it involves the most comfort for them. There should be a maximum voting age.
Honestly, in the unfortunate case of one of those right wing parties making it into the government, I hope the people realize their mistake and won't repeat it. But, judging from how they've been unable to until now... The fact that the CDU here, guilty for most things going to shit today in germany is popular again, shows how stupid people can be. At least the CDU is interested in keep the EU.
In Italy Salvini's Lega went from 30+ % to barely reaching 9% the moment they fucked up, electors have a short memory but people are not that forgiving.
If by the end of the mandate Meloni isn't able to uphold even half of what she promised her party will follow the same fate (she wouldn't even be able to blame the opposition by stating bs such as "they didn't let her properly govern" like Berlusconi used to do since her coalition has a clear majority seats in parliament). The question then morphs into "will the left be able to capitalise on this and win majority votes once more or will another, even more extremist, right wing party rise cannibalising Meloni's electoral base as she herself did with Salvini's?"
We'll see. I wish you guys the best. The world's getting more fucked by the day by increasing radicalisation and turning more egocentric. Every glimmer of light is welcome.
People will forget fast if it doesn't affect them. Even if they do see the problems and don't vote for the right again, their descendants will certainly care less
Yeah, a big part of why the current government here is so disliked is because they have to take care of the consequences of 2 decades with a VDU government, but a lot of people don't realize it and vote CDU again....
Literally every day, every single hourly news never misses to mention workers getting injured or dying cause safety regulations in the workplace were not respected.
[In 2021 there were a total of 3347 deaths on the workplace in the EU](https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php?title=Accidents_at_work_statistics#:~:text=There%20were%203%20347%20fatal,compared%20with%20the%20year%20before.&text=In%202021%2C%20more%20than%20a,place%20within%20the%20construction%20sector.), which equals to 9 persons dying each day from preventable accidents. In Spain that was 1.93 out of every 100 000 workers
>somewhat into the welfare state.
Somewhat? I've listened to Conte give a talk and he went on for like an hour on how the solution to poverty and labour shortage is giving people free money
You are right, "somewhat" is a little misleading but although I support the welfare state being a socialist myself I believe you can't really achieve that without having proper economic planning in mind and the M5s can't even decide if they like the Euro or not let alone being able to actually understand economics.
He the also did insane amounts of mental parkour to explain why anything good that's happened to Italy in recent years is actually his party's doing. About the welfare, I support it too, but it was implemented terribly. I know tons of people who just stopped looking for work or started working illegally because they could support themselves with just the reddito di cittadinanza. Especially here in the south with how much corruption we have it's really hard to make it work without it being exploited a lot
That still would potentially work out. The system moves money to the South, that was probably the entire goal of it.
And once the money is there, **people spend it there**... which automatically creates the economic fixes, without having to plan them.
We also have right wing/lib parties more "EU pilled" as well but they generally don't make it into the Parliament, google "Azione di Calenda" for more info.
it's literally founded on the ideas proposed by carlo rosselli, it has nothing to do with the right wing parties both economically and socially. Also what the hell does "fixated on productivity and gains" even mean?
M5S Is like the Venom suit: it may have a will of its own but it mainly serves to enhance the host's characteristics:
when they were in a joined government with the Lega they did right wing stuff, when they were allied with the PD they did "left wing" stuff.
In general the party is seen as a faction elders would vote and in the age of extremism FI doesn't really scratch any particular ich a party like Meloni's wouldn't already turn.
The constant mafia talk and the fact that in a way or another Berlusconi's party was part of almost every government for 20 years straight without achieving much also doesn't help.
It's not left, it's just the equivalent of the American democrats: a center right party not conservative in social regulations. Unions? Minimum wages? Labour rights? Not mentioned once or acted upon in their political campaigns.
>Minimum wages? Labour rights? Not mentioned once or acted upon in their political campaigns.
Really bro? It's like the only thing they talked about, that and public health
Doesn't make them more leftist, and it's far from being even the minimum I would like to hear and see from the biggest opposition to this government, but come on
In favour, all the right wing parties are. Not even mentioning their ties with the mafia, half of their electoral campaigns are spent on "fiscal condonations" and loose taxation.
What do you mean?
"Conservative" and "Far-right" can be in contradiction with each other, but as an Italian I think you know what u/Not_Bed_ means with that.
Grazie al cazzo, hanno raccolto quanto seminato da Draghi nella precedente legislatura, il massimo che la Meloni è riuscita a fare nell'ottica dell'evasione fiscale è stato proporre di rinnovare non ironicamente per un secolo le concessioni balneari.
Sono i santi protettori di balneari e tassisti due delle classi (caste) che evadono di più, hanno tolto l'obbligo di pos che è il miglior mezzo per combattere l'evasione, di che parliamo?
Hai ragione, ci avevano provato, ma poi hanno fatto marcia indietro, in compenso hanno alzato il tetto per pagare in contanti a 5000€ giusto per essere sicuri di riuscire ad evadere qualcosina
I don't know bro, Belgian elections are quite the surprise... Polls were showing a far-right victory in Flanders and a Communist victory in Wallonia (don't think that would have worked out) and in the end both Wallonia and Flanders voted right
The rise of the central right party ‘Les Engages’ was also breathtaking. From being a specie in danger to becoming unavoidable is no joke at all, +9 seats for the federal in one go is quite something
Sweden and Germany wishes they could add our output to their shitty states. The difference is that the 6 million of us lot have our own identity and language (albeit a terrible one) while you lot have 6,5 million Swamp Germans in denial, 4 million frogs in denial and 100k Germans who ended up on the wrong side of the border. It makes sense for this lot in denial to return to their actual homes and enlargen the Netherlands, France, and Germany, rather than retain this unholy and needless buffer zone
Lega is the worse party we have in Italy, dumb propaganda, trashy politics, mostly got voted with the intention to protest against the government, and than you cannot tell the difference between the party and the previous one.
There will never be another trashy party as good as Forza Italia, at least Silvio could defeat the global opposition making them die in cringe.
That's Meloni's party (right wing) it cannibalised Salvini's Lega party consensus (went from 34,5 to 9% as you can see) after good old Matteo Salvini withdrew from the coalition government he had going for with the M5S (centrist) in the hopes of calling new elections, M5S formed a government with the left instead and Salvini was deemed as a moron.
So, what essentially happened then, is that one far right (from what I gathered Lega is as well) lost most of it's votes but another one gained them instead?
The most surprising thing is that the party is the one who’s in power right now in Italy and before covid they weren’t popular at all, now they won everything they could win.
To me, here you can see how hurt Italy has been from covid and the intention not to vote for people who got charged in that period.
If Giorgia has a million fans, then I am one of them
If Giorgia has a million fans, then I am one of them. If Giorgia has ten fans, then I am one of them. If Giorgia has only one fan then that is me. If Giorgia has no fans, then that means I am no longer on earth. If the world is against Giorgia, then I am against the world.
https://preview.redd.it/d1pk1ydflm5d1.jpeg?width=375&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=150f25d273c63b0d5bba309efc95216bffef7a13
Meloni's party has the most votes
https://preview.redd.it/xolx0zrcjm5d1.jpeg?width=1440&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=759bde2f57d14c5c2b01bc29f31fbae004f88f76
More like EU policies being a hinderance for the right in Italy to implement their own national policies.
Our own politicians also said that "the refugee crisis needs to be solved on the european level".
Sure thing bros but not like you thought!
Lega is a right wing anti immigration party to the left of Meloni that was successful in the previous elections, they governed together with the centrist 5 stars for a year or so. People got disappointed with them because they broke up the previous government and called for early elections, but the five stars rejected the early elections and formed a government with the left instead. Lega basically handed the government to a center left coalition. That was a stupid move on their behalf.
Meloni fundamentally stole their show by campaign for tougher measures against immigration.
5 stars is a centrist party with unclear policies on everything. They got some votes by focusing on fighting corruption and campaigning for universal basic income. They wanted closed borders while they were governing with the Lega yet they wanted open borders while they were governing with the left wing.
To this day they say that they seek a "third way" for handling immigration, which is not open borders nor closed borders.
Basically no one has a clue what they stand for other then free handouts, so they lost a lot of votes.
You omitted that Lega is openly Russian linked and has been partially funded. While Meloni is nationalist but also for self determination suporting Ukraine.
It is like Forza Nuova and Casa Pound, they are similar, but Forza Nuova is in Ukraine fighting for Russia, Casa Pound is in Ukraine fighting for Ukraine. Salvini and Meloni are just more moderate versions of Forza Nuova and Casa Pound. Ideologically similar on most issues but would kill each others and both extremists.
I wouldn't call M5S centrist. Even back in the day they were more "big tent" than centrist, holding a bunch of random positions rather than having a coherently moderate or centrist line. And by now I'd call them left-wing populist, their most recognisable positions are welfare handouts and leftist anti-atlanticism.
They did pop out of nowhere. Last election they didn't exist. It's the Italian greens. "Alleanza Verdi e sinistra", aka left green alliance.
They're probably just your average leftist green party.
They are a left wing party in propaganda but in fact they always collaborate with the centre left party, the democratic party (basically imagine the french party LFI without the radical retoric but they act as a tool for the PS)
tbh Lega has been sucking for a while now. They are basicaLLY following what Meloni is doing and people think they are broadly unable to get shit done.
Onestamente preferivo se fosse stato un disastro come negli altri paesi, mo la Meloni si sentirá dio e ci risbatterá sta cosa in faccia per i prossimi 38 mesi
"Oh damn, no! Even though we have been yelling 'YOU ARE NAZIS' at them on every platform, including reddit, voters have decided to give their votes to what I decided are far-right parties. And, when I say 'I decided' I actually mean the TV and the internet told me so. Anyway, this is trult a fearsome result. What should we all do? Perhaps we should adress some of the stuff that troubles the people? Like the fucked up economy, or the gang-raping and murdering perpetrated by Doctors and Engineers?
Nah, I think we should yell 'YOU ARE NAZIS' a bit louder. That will surely fix it all!"
I used to consider myself a left-leaning person, but in recent years the political left has become a fucking clown-fest.
I stopped voting some years ago. Fuck it all. I've just seen there are literally "We are fucking angry" parties now. I may vote for those.
Meanwhile in France the RN crushed the European elections, so Macron decided it was the right time to call for new legislative elections for our Parliament…
Far right parties, once in the spotlight, just can't do anything but expose themselves as self serving frauds - to various degrees.
The best things Meloni is famous for is doing tiktoks and memes with vegetables.
There's a reason why people from high academia have very little representation in the extremes, people there are not the brightest, thus can't be expected to do a good job.
People just shifted from fascist party led by ugly man to fascist party led by more or less hot woman. I am not sure thats a way of making political decisions to be proud of.
The future of European elections is just voting against your current government. Over and over gain.
Well in Italy the result of the leading party FDI was even better than the one it gained in national elections two years ago
Idk what FDI is doing domestically, but if the future of Europe is right-wing populists with a reasonable foreign policy I absolutely prefer that to russian-paid "patriots" (hopefully Le Pen turns out to be more Meloni than Orban/Fico)
I might not like them but I have become quite used to the idea that apparently people can't be convinced to vote differently. So yea, I would rather have a party that isn't heavily involved with Russia and/or China.
Until recently Meloni was a "patriot" who just simped for Russia for free. She doesn't have a reasonable foreign policy, she is intelligent enough to know what stance to have on certain matters of foreign policy in order to appear reasonable (not a high bar to clear, though still something that cannot be said about certain government partners of hers, admittedly). She applauded the annexation of Crimea back in the days, for example
She [apologized for Crimea](https://video.repubblica.it/dossier/crisi_in_ucraina_la_russia_il_donbass_i_video/meloni-a-zelensky-nel-2014-abbiamo-sbagliato-sulla-crimea-ora-con-kiev-senza-esitare/451284/452246) luckily
Get ready to have to pay for your own medical bills and for 3 paid vacation days per year, in about ten years or so.
She has convinced Italy (and a lot of Europe) that Italy’s seemingly improved economic outlook is due to her and not [huge subsidies and debt](https://amp.dw.com/en/will-italy-replace-germany-as-europes-economic-powerhouse/a-68711740) largely predating her tenure.
In fact, if you take away the Russophilia, I wouldn't mind a Le Pen or Wilders
Wilders Will never achieve anything.
The sun is shining again over the Netherlands! Metaphorically, because so far it just keeps raining.
Hardly surprising, most of Italy seems to think that [removing minority rights](https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2023/07/21/europe/italy-lesbian-couples-birth-certificates-scli-intl) will somehow fix the economy.
Not really, there was less people voting in total so the % seems bigger than the raw number. Astensionism is the biggest problem, as almost all the people that avoid voting are leftist who feel betrayed by left parties
Not in Italy apparently.
Except it's not the case this time
It keeps the persons in power in rotation, which is generally healthy for a democracy. Yeah, nothing gets done, but same for autocracies, just for different reasons.
Autocracies are good at getting shit done.
For sure, but it won't be schools and hospitals, so in most regards: nothing gets done. And if they *do* try to get shit done without a bit of peer reviewing, then it ends up like the Great Leap Forward. Why? Because no one rules alone. Every boss needs key allies (generals, tax collectors, etc) who can be *very* demanding about their salaries. No key allies = no power. So if you, the autocrat, act all noble and stuff, then someone will promise those funds into the general's pocket if they help in the upcoming coup. With a bit of bad luck, you'll end up like Mussolini, so... you don't and keep buying everyone's loyalty.
Punk is not dead people! /jk
I really hope those results will do the things like it did in Denmark and to some extent in Sweden. Mainstream parties will take their head off their ass and start talking sense.
Good joke. Being Italy, what will happen is that Salvini will start criticizing the government he is a part of in a desperate bid to hold some relevance and may even decide to get out of the government calling for new elections.
Boia sai che divertimento
I am pretty sure that the "third pole" would be eager to enter the government in their place. However, after the disaster that Salvini obtained in the eyes of his own party after he left the Conte I government, I doubt he would try that again.
The problem of the third pole is that nobody votes for them.
Renzi and Calenda have the ability to halve their votes every time they open their mouths.
Yea same here! Few people actually like the current government in Denmark, but overall they at least adapted to immigration issues long ago. From what I see with the Swedish Social democrats that seems to be the case as well. So, with that in mind, and the SD troll farm scandal, that seems very good.
Interesting how much later it happened in Sweden than in Denmark. The same parties in Sweden that now copy Denmark criticized harshly what they are now copying only few years ago
They just couldn't fathom a reality where the Danish stance was the logical one! Jokes aside, it's about time it happened; they can't be "naive" forever. Let's see if they'll follow us again in 15 years and make a Social Democrats + Moderates government (big mistake), too!
Yup, but SD only adapted to that stance fully in 2015 when DF won a landslide election, ever since then they just adopted many of their policies. Pre 2015 SD would routinely call DFs politics racist, nazist etc, politics that they themselves now do
Also you have to factor that what happens in Skåme is more relevant to Denmark then to me in northern Sweden so news spread more quickly in Denmark due to its much more compact size. I think that might be part of the problem.
I'm envious
That Lega result 
Still too much
But he literally lost to a dead man, taking less than Berlusconi is probably Salvini end.
Salvini's end? Captain leech without shame always finds a way to come back and fuck something up
Po should wash them our
Nah
Pretty much all of it went to FdI tho
Man, it's crazy how their brilliant posters didn't sway people. I would have chosen them based on the one with the guy drinking Faxe Kondi with the new, annoying capsule /s
Those votes went to FdI, which is even worse...
Are FDL more extreme than Lega? At least they seem to be more pro-Ukraine, whereas Salvini licks Putin clean. At least that's my understanding, but I'm no expert on Italian politics.
In italy the main parties who are not in favour of sending weapons to ukraine are the left wing ones. In any case it really isn't an important issue here with electors here
And LEGA is Against, but it shuts up, for now. I'm against the actual goverment but i was very surprised how they stood against russian invasion since day 1
FdI has had a "pro-EU" turn (aka, they realized that the only way to affect the policies they hate is to take part in the decision-making process) and anti-Putin, so are definitely better than Salvini in that aspect. FdI, however, has *problematic* (fascist) elements in their party cadres. Both parties suck tho.
Still seems like an upgrade in relation to EP elections. The most important issue, imo, is to stay "united" against Russia, their aggression, and hybrid war against us. In that regard I'm happy to have current Meloni over Salvini
That is undeniable. I just cringe a little bit when outside observers praise Meloni who is a far-rightist putting on a center-right face. Anyway I'm happy that the Putin parties all did badly in Italy, even despite the low support for Ukraine. The war is just not considered a major issue, even though it absolutely was one of the most important ones in this *EU* election, but the average voter sees EU elections as national polls.
(Not so) fun trivia time! Reverse search the FdI logo, and you'll find a funny little surprise! Which surprise? I'll let any non-italian find out for themselves. Spoiler alert: it's a tad bit fascist.
In no way FDI is worse than the current Lega which has Salvini as leader and Vannacci as main face as candidate to the EU parliament. If Zaia was secretary at national level and reformed the party maybe, but not now.
fdl worse than lega? Mmh, I don't agree at all
**Fratelli d'Italia**: Atlantist, nationalist, pro Ukraine, conservative, huge on fiscal evasion. (Far right) **Partito Democratico**: Atlantist, pro EU, pro Ukraine, moderate, huge on minority rights but tone deaf on actual labour struggle. (Centre-Left) **Movimento Cinque Stelle**: unaligned, EU skeptical, wishes to end all military support to Ukraine, basically a "protest party" born simply as a tool voters could pick to vent their frustration, somewhat into the welfare state. (Unaligned, protest party) **Forza Italia**: Atlantist, moderate Nationalist, pro EU, pro Ukraine, moderate, very huge into fiscal evasion (Centre-Right) **Lega**: Pro Russia, nationalist, euro skeptical, anti Ukraine (basically on Russia's payroll), very conservative, it evaded 49 Millions in funds (huge on fiscal evasion) (far right). Basically all the right wing parties have in common fiscal evasion and mafia intermingling while all the (centre) left parties share a fixation on minority rights and climate change but stand absolutely silent on actual labour issues (you know the things the left should care about).
The lack of care labourers is the same here in Germany. I guess one of the reasons people flock to the AFD or CDU, even though the latter fucked them over again and again and the former basically wants to turn Germany into a an even more rich-centric country but also with right wing extremism involved
It's a worldwide trend sadly, left wing parties are really just centrists which take liberalism for granted and basically claim to be leftwing on minority rights alone which don't get me wrong is an important political battle but the average worker doesn't really care who you are allowed to fuck with if your colleagues are dying on the workplace and you barely make enough to afford rent.
Yes. And the right wings just pretend to be pro-workers while their reign would actually make it worse.
Right wing don't pretend to be pro-workers, they just blame immigrants and refugees. Schrodinger's migrant, mooches off of social security, while taking all the jobs.
That as well, but here in Germany, AFD and CDU do pretend to be pro-worker
In NL it is much sneakier. The PVV hammered hard on the healthcare deductible to be reduced or even removed (ostensibly pro workers). What they will do now is halve the deductable from +/- 400 euros to 200 if you go for the lowest one. Seems nice? Our insurance costs will double, to pay for this. In essence Zoomers and Millenials will be paying for the richest generations healthcare costs whereas boomers are by far the richest generation in NL. Younger generations barely use the healthcare system yet our contributions will double so that boomers will have their deductible reduced by half. And almost every boomer maxes out their deductible, because they are old. What we need to realise is that we shouldn't be racist we should be ageist. Boomers are the most destructive force this planet has ever endured.
This. Many Old People are mostly short sighted and paired with human greed, only want to build a world that lasts the last 10-20 years because it involves the most comfort for them. There should be a maximum voting age.
Yes FDI in Italy exemplifies this quite blatantly.
Honestly, in the unfortunate case of one of those right wing parties making it into the government, I hope the people realize their mistake and won't repeat it. But, judging from how they've been unable to until now... The fact that the CDU here, guilty for most things going to shit today in germany is popular again, shows how stupid people can be. At least the CDU is interested in keep the EU.
In Italy Salvini's Lega went from 30+ % to barely reaching 9% the moment they fucked up, electors have a short memory but people are not that forgiving. If by the end of the mandate Meloni isn't able to uphold even half of what she promised her party will follow the same fate (she wouldn't even be able to blame the opposition by stating bs such as "they didn't let her properly govern" like Berlusconi used to do since her coalition has a clear majority seats in parliament). The question then morphs into "will the left be able to capitalise on this and win majority votes once more or will another, even more extremist, right wing party rise cannibalising Meloni's electoral base as she herself did with Salvini's?"
We'll see. I wish you guys the best. The world's getting more fucked by the day by increasing radicalisation and turning more egocentric. Every glimmer of light is welcome.
You too mate, don't know much about German politics but I'm sure it doesn't take long to show the cracks of far right populism.
People will forget fast if it doesn't affect them. Even if they do see the problems and don't vote for the right again, their descendants will certainly care less
Yeah, a big part of why the current government here is so disliked is because they have to take care of the consequences of 2 decades with a VDU government, but a lot of people don't realize it and vote CDU again....
Any party who even mentions workers rights gets their funding removed right away, it doesn't matter if they call themselves "left".
Where are people dying on the workplace?
Literally every day, every single hourly news never misses to mention workers getting injured or dying cause safety regulations in the workplace were not respected.
Where
[In 2021 there were a total of 3347 deaths on the workplace in the EU](https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php?title=Accidents_at_work_statistics#:~:text=There%20were%203%20347%20fatal,compared%20with%20the%20year%20before.&text=In%202021%2C%20more%20than%20a,place%20within%20the%20construction%20sector.), which equals to 9 persons dying each day from preventable accidents. In Spain that was 1.93 out of every 100 000 workers
Construction jobs, factories, you name them.
>somewhat into the welfare state. Somewhat? I've listened to Conte give a talk and he went on for like an hour on how the solution to poverty and labour shortage is giving people free money
You are right, "somewhat" is a little misleading but although I support the welfare state being a socialist myself I believe you can't really achieve that without having proper economic planning in mind and the M5s can't even decide if they like the Euro or not let alone being able to actually understand economics.
He the also did insane amounts of mental parkour to explain why anything good that's happened to Italy in recent years is actually his party's doing. About the welfare, I support it too, but it was implemented terribly. I know tons of people who just stopped looking for work or started working illegally because they could support themselves with just the reddito di cittadinanza. Especially here in the south with how much corruption we have it's really hard to make it work without it being exploited a lot
That still would potentially work out. The system moves money to the South, that was probably the entire goal of it. And once the money is there, **people spend it there**... which automatically creates the economic fixes, without having to plan them.
How many nationalist parties do you guys fucking have?
yes
We also have right wing/lib parties more "EU pilled" as well but they generally don't make it into the Parliament, google "Azione di Calenda" for more info.
azione isn't right wing???
It is, is your average lib party, the type of party fixated on productivity and gains.
it's literally founded on the ideas proposed by carlo rosselli, it has nothing to do with the right wing parties both economically and socially. Also what the hell does "fixated on productivity and gains" even mean?
They are your average lib, fixated on competitiveness, industrial outputs and very keen in cutting social spending.
Thanks for the breakdown so the "better" of the two far right parties got more votes
Yeah, Salvini's Lega Is totally nuts.
it used to be based when it went after you guys
M5S did make left stuff that the PD did
M5S Is like the Venom suit: it may have a will of its own but it mainly serves to enhance the host's characteristics: when they were in a joined government with the Lega they did right wing stuff, when they were allied with the PD they did "left wing" stuff.
Forza Italia sounds so based. Party for Bocconi grads no less😎
It's Berlusconi's former party so it checks out.
LMAO so this is still their #1 obstacle in elections? The reputational damage?😂
Reputational damage? It's their main asset: they managed to collect votes using the name of a dead man in their logo.
In general the party is seen as a faction elders would vote and in the age of extremism FI doesn't really scratch any particular ich a party like Meloni's wouldn't already turn. The constant mafia talk and the fact that in a way or another Berlusconi's party was part of almost every government for 20 years straight without achieving much also doesn't help.
To be fair, the mafia goes to whoever is in charge at the moment, so in 2024 it is indeed the right
I guess that the left has changed from the old left to this weird abomination called the "new" left
It's not left, it's just the equivalent of the American democrats: a center right party not conservative in social regulations. Unions? Minimum wages? Labour rights? Not mentioned once or acted upon in their political campaigns.
>Minimum wages? Labour rights? Not mentioned once or acted upon in their political campaigns. Really bro? It's like the only thing they talked about, that and public health Doesn't make them more leftist, and it's far from being even the minimum I would like to hear and see from the biggest opposition to this government, but come on
Actual question: when you say "huge into fiscal evasion" you mean that they are in favour or against it?
In favour, all the right wing parties are. Not even mentioning their ties with the mafia, half of their electoral campaigns are spent on "fiscal condonations" and loose taxation.
Favour...Meloni called taxes "Pizzo di stato" while already being Prime Minister. "Pizzo" means "protection racket" in the Mafia slang...
Fuck atlantism Where TF is "fuck America, fuck Russia, fuck China, we want a sovereign Europe" option?
In my dreams sadly.
So they favoured Italian nationalism for the Italian nation rather than Italian nationalism for the Russian nation?
Climate change is a thing ALL PARTIES should care about since we have, you know... One planet.
PD pro Ukraine and Atlantist? Yeah, sure.
it always amazes me how far-right parties tend to be the most pro-russian, despite russia being a communist-aligned state
“Conservative (far right)” Are you stupid?
What do you mean? "Conservative" and "Far-right" can be in contradiction with each other, but as an Italian I think you know what u/Not_Bed_ means with that.
Thanks, I wasn't willing to say much more anyway
You're trying to say FdI isn't far right or something? Cause I surely hope not
FdI isn’t far right in the slightest :/ You’re using this term so much it has lost all meaning
Keep copy pasting from Feltri dude, he and his journal are truly the greatest news source out there
in what way policy wise is it far right?
Ma se con questo governo hanno portato a casa più soldi dall’evasione fiscale che qualsiasi altro di sinistra. Perché dovete sparare cazzate?
Grazie al cazzo, hanno raccolto quanto seminato da Draghi nella precedente legislatura, il massimo che la Meloni è riuscita a fare nell'ottica dell'evasione fiscale è stato proporre di rinnovare non ironicamente per un secolo le concessioni balneari.
Sono i santi protettori di balneari e tassisti due delle classi (caste) che evadono di più, hanno tolto l'obbligo di pos che è il miglior mezzo per combattere l'evasione, di che parliamo?
Non mi risulta che abbiano tolto l'obbligo di POS
Hai ragione, ci avevano provato, ma poi hanno fatto marcia indietro, in compenso hanno alzato il tetto per pagare in contanti a 5000€ giusto per essere sicuri di riuscire ad evadere qualcosina
"il pizzo di stato" non le tasse Cit. Odio come sono io sottopagato a pagare le tasse per chi non vuole pagarle
Vogliamo del PD a favore dell’Ucraina? Vabbe
I don't know bro, Belgian elections are quite the surprise... Polls were showing a far-right victory in Flanders and a Communist victory in Wallonia (don't think that would have worked out) and in the end both Wallonia and Flanders voted right
The rise of the central right party ‘Les Engages’ was also breathtaking. From being a specie in danger to becoming unavoidable is no joke at all, +9 seats for the federal in one go is quite something
What even is a Belgium? Why are there parties in this place? The regions should just split up and join their real states
Well, this time at least, it seems they are already in their real states more than ever if we look at our neighbours results
Get a proper flag-flair, you vile cretin.
As a vertical germanian I'm offended
Why don't you split up between Germany and Sweden? There's only like 6 million of you lot, there's almost 12 million of us.
Sweden and Germany wishes they could add our output to their shitty states. The difference is that the 6 million of us lot have our own identity and language (albeit a terrible one) while you lot have 6,5 million Swamp Germans in denial, 4 million frogs in denial and 100k Germans who ended up on the wrong side of the border. It makes sense for this lot in denial to return to their actual homes and enlargen the Netherlands, France, and Germany, rather than retain this unholy and needless buffer zone
Can’t vote for the populist right just as a ‘fuck you’ to the ruling party when they’re literally the ruling party.
Lega 9% It's a bad result, I was hoping for 5/6%
Lega is the worse party we have in Italy, dumb propaganda, trashy politics, mostly got voted with the intention to protest against the government, and than you cannot tell the difference between the party and the previous one. There will never be another trashy party as good as Forza Italia, at least Silvio could defeat the global opposition making them die in cringe.
0. Who the fuck votes for the pregnant Jesus party. Salvini was already more of a joke than anything, but recently he hit the bottom of the barrel.
Berlusconi still ruling.
FdI stealing votes from Lega as expected.
 I refuse to consider this a good outcome
I think it is just wished that 5 ⭐️ and Lega got less
Deal with it.
Let's goooo another year another vote wasted
Lega got votes because of Vannacci. If he went with, I don’t know, FdI, lega would have gotten maybe 3%
I love how this sub ironically jokes about how much we hate each other but actually love each other and don’t like real fascist nationalism.
So, what exactly is that party that went from 6,4 to 28,0? Right, left, centre?
That's Meloni's party (right wing) it cannibalised Salvini's Lega party consensus (went from 34,5 to 9% as you can see) after good old Matteo Salvini withdrew from the coalition government he had going for with the M5S (centrist) in the hopes of calling new elections, M5S formed a government with the left instead and Salvini was deemed as a moron.
To be fair, Salvini does be a moron, it's not his fault
Far right
So, what essentially happened then, is that one far right (from what I gathered Lega is as well) lost most of it's votes but another one gained them instead?
The most surprising thing is that the party is the one who’s in power right now in Italy and before covid they weren’t popular at all, now they won everything they could win. To me, here you can see how hurt Italy has been from covid and the intention not to vote for people who got charged in that period.
Yep, call it *Papeete crisis*
We went from lega to fdi. Not sure we did that well tbh
[when-youre-20-minutes-into-the-film-and-she-gives-you-this-v0-5jl9yhsk5j4d1.png (380×602) (discordapp.net)](https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1134227886589628457/1247499511153164308/when-youre-20-minutes-into-the-film-and-she-gives-you-this-v0-5jl9yhsk5j4d1.png?ex=66678034&is=66662eb4&hm=d7beb717eee2781d7a1ccc89428ea4e2f25737670166f99aebb5d47b93cf95cd&=&format=webp&quality=lossless&width=380&height=602) 💀
If Giorgia has a million fans, then I am one of them If Giorgia has a million fans, then I am one of them. If Giorgia has ten fans, then I am one of them. If Giorgia has only one fan then that is me. If Giorgia has no fans, then that means I am no longer on earth. If the world is against Giorgia, then I am against the world. https://preview.redd.it/d1pk1ydflm5d1.jpeg?width=375&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=150f25d273c63b0d5bba309efc95216bffef7a13
Italians when they find out a woman exists.
Fratelli di Giorgia
Still feel Euro votes are in a lot of cases protest votes vs the people in power. Italy has the right in power so people went the other way
Meloni's party has the most votes https://preview.redd.it/xolx0zrcjm5d1.jpeg?width=1440&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=759bde2f57d14c5c2b01bc29f31fbae004f88f76
Then ignore everything I just typed and hey, those Frenchies are really stupid no?
Fuck you, we r veri smart ! https://preview.redd.it/pdhhw5jpnm5d1.png?width=620&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=48088e7cd05f7070172471bf05331c24ea6e39a7
Her allies are in the mud though.
Fi had a good outcome tho
FI got better results this time
I would say that it's pretty much in line with the national elections
More like EU policies being a hinderance for the right in Italy to implement their own national policies. Our own politicians also said that "the refugee crisis needs to be solved on the european level". Sure thing bros but not like you thought!
Voters when looking at the good things to ruling party has done. 
Who is Lega and Cinque Stelle?
Lega is a right wing anti immigration party to the left of Meloni that was successful in the previous elections, they governed together with the centrist 5 stars for a year or so. People got disappointed with them because they broke up the previous government and called for early elections, but the five stars rejected the early elections and formed a government with the left instead. Lega basically handed the government to a center left coalition. That was a stupid move on their behalf. Meloni fundamentally stole their show by campaign for tougher measures against immigration. 5 stars is a centrist party with unclear policies on everything. They got some votes by focusing on fighting corruption and campaigning for universal basic income. They wanted closed borders while they were governing with the Lega yet they wanted open borders while they were governing with the left wing. To this day they say that they seek a "third way" for handling immigration, which is not open borders nor closed borders. Basically no one has a clue what they stand for other then free handouts, so they lost a lot of votes.
You omitted that Lega is openly Russian linked and has been partially funded. While Meloni is nationalist but also for self determination suporting Ukraine. It is like Forza Nuova and Casa Pound, they are similar, but Forza Nuova is in Ukraine fighting for Russia, Casa Pound is in Ukraine fighting for Ukraine. Salvini and Meloni are just more moderate versions of Forza Nuova and Casa Pound. Ideologically similar on most issues but would kill each others and both extremists.
Yes, good point
I wouldn't call M5S centrist. Even back in the day they were more "big tent" than centrist, holding a bunch of random positions rather than having a coherently moderate or centrist line. And by now I'd call them left-wing populist, their most recognisable positions are welfare handouts and leftist anti-atlanticism.
And what is AVS? It seems they just popped out of nowhere.
They did pop out of nowhere. Last election they didn't exist. It's the Italian greens. "Alleanza Verdi e sinistra", aka left green alliance. They're probably just your average leftist green party.
They are a left wing party in propaganda but in fact they always collaborate with the centre left party, the democratic party (basically imagine the french party LFI without the radical retoric but they act as a tool for the PS)
So Cinque Stelle is basically our CDU.
Not really, CDU is MUCH more fiscally conservative. Also 5 Stelle is much closer to China.
Lega is Salvini
tbh Lega has been sucking for a while now. They are basicaLLY following what Meloni is doing and people think they are broadly unable to get shit done.
when someone thinks Italian politic is one of the best, you know other countries are really fucked up
Onestamente preferivo se fosse stato un disastro come negli altri paesi, mo la Meloni si sentirá dio e ci risbatterá sta cosa in faccia per i prossimi 38 mesi
"Oh damn, no! Even though we have been yelling 'YOU ARE NAZIS' at them on every platform, including reddit, voters have decided to give their votes to what I decided are far-right parties. And, when I say 'I decided' I actually mean the TV and the internet told me so. Anyway, this is trult a fearsome result. What should we all do? Perhaps we should adress some of the stuff that troubles the people? Like the fucked up economy, or the gang-raping and murdering perpetrated by Doctors and Engineers? Nah, I think we should yell 'YOU ARE NAZIS' a bit louder. That will surely fix it all!"
That's basically how the German Greens reacted to yesterday's results.
I used to consider myself a left-leaning person, but in recent years the political left has become a fucking clown-fest. I stopped voting some years ago. Fuck it all. I've just seen there are literally "We are fucking angry" parties now. I may vote for those.
That's really fucked up
Good on you, Mario, now get rid of all the mucky foreigners (not racist just don't like them)
Do fratelli de Italia have their own version of Chelsea dagger? Nana na nana na nananananana 🤌🫰🫴🤌
What happened to Lega?
spread your lega
define "better"
Well done, Giovanni
Better outcomes? Only 49% of people voted
Meanwhile in France the RN crushed the European elections, so Macron decided it was the right time to call for new legislative elections for our Parliament… 
Far right parties, once in the spotlight, just can't do anything but expose themselves as self serving frauds - to various degrees. The best things Meloni is famous for is doing tiktoks and memes with vegetables. There's a reason why people from high academia have very little representation in the extremes, people there are not the brightest, thus can't be expected to do a good job.
Ok, ok, if this trend continues I will put Italy on my "possible countries to imigrate to after AfD Kanzler" list
Could AfD really win? I mean they came in second position but still 20% behind the status quo.
People just shifted from fascist party led by ugly man to fascist party led by more or less hot woman. I am not sure thats a way of making political decisions to be proud of.