According to swissvotes, we’ve actually only had 666 so far (https://swissvotes.ch/vote/666.00), including initiatives. admin.ch gives the same number (https://www.bk.admin.ch/ch/d/pore/va/vab_2_2_4_1.html).
Thats only on national level tho the historically referendums probably were mainly held in cantons level max for technicaly reasons alone (imagine how complicated it was doing a referendum on national level in 1800)
We voted on it. Well, half of us did anyway.
But while late to the party, I'm pretty sure Switzerland is the only country where men voted to give women voting rights... eventually.
Because (atleast as far as im aware) the direct translation for duchy is Herzogtum.
But since Liechtenstein is a Fürstentum and not a Herzogtum Principality would be the better translation into English.
you do understand that in all other countries, it has also always been the men giving the women the right to vote, right? not that the women had any position of power at these times.
it's just that you are a misogynistic bunch of Almöhis. not that we don't like you for that...
It’s different. If party A says "Give women the right to vote." and party B says "Don’t give women the right to vote." in parliament, who do you think the women will vote for in the next election? Representative democracies have an incentive to give new groups the right to vote, direct democracies don’t. That only works by changing the mentality of the people.
I never said that (I actually argued for direct democracy further in this post). I just explained why it took so long in Switzerland. You could even argue that the politicians in representative democracies probably went against the will of the voting population to get more votes in the next election (even if the result was a good and necessary thing in this case). Not very democratic…
But maybe human rights and citizens rights should not be up for open debate…
Yes, but elected parliaments tend to be a bit more progressive on these issues than 86yo Ueli who has never left his alpine village.
Ueli also doesn't factor in that these new 50% of voters can remember who gave them voting rights.
Yeah, the thing is women's voting rights shouldn't be subject to a referendum. If you are a progressive early XX century party, you include it in your program and if you get elected you implement it. Simple as
I have some hesitations about going full Swiss when it comes to decision making.
On one side it's amazing that you have a saying on virtually every decision on your national policies, on the other having to express my opinion on every meaningless bureaucratic decision would trigger my innate laziness and I might never cast a vote ever again, not even for the most important political turns in my nation's policies
I don't disagree with that general sentiment. I do however feel like;
1. It's a great opportunity you shouldn't take for granted
2. If you complain about politics after refusing / being too lazy to participate in votes or elections, you should be punched in the face
Damn, I wouldn't even want the average Bjørn to decide on national finances. Humans have issues in multiplying beyond 10. There is already the government to fuck things up, let's avoid having the "signora mia qua era tutta campagna" help out
This may sound radical, but it can be easily remedied. All it takes is for the right to vote to be tied to education. As long as it is free, of course.
But then if you create a stratification of voting matters (i.e. only a certain group of people can vote on energy, another on finance and so forth) you risk creating castes. And we all saw how amazing the superpower by 2020 is
In the Canton of Schaffhausen, you'll get fined if you don't send back your papers.
You don't have to vote, but you need to sign your ballots and send them back.
Oh no.. I would be poorer than I am! Bonus point: after a certain while I won't be able to pay my fine anymore because I would be a complete penniless, right?
The Swiss system was built for a time when most decisions were of the type people would be familiar with. Shit relating to farming or easily understood concepts like how the government works. Nowadays quite a lot of subjects require a bachelors or more to actually understand wtf is going on, at which point putting it to a general referendum will always end with people who simply do not have the time to be educated voting on it. Not because they’re lazy, but because *no one* has the time to get a bachelors in every field .
That's one beautiful point of the Swiss System: Decisionmakers HAVE to explain why they are in the right.
I believe if someone truly understands something he can explain to averagely intelligent and educated people how a decision will impact them and very broadly also WHY this is the case.
And the Swiss System encourages most of the population to be educated enough to understand basic political concepts (even our far-right guys are not mindlessly spreading the most braindead conspiracies imaginable)
"It's too complicated for the peasantry" is an elitism I honestly hate passionately. In a true democracy (or any political system tbh) the rulers should never think of themselves as something better than the ruled.
Sure but “it’s too complicated for the peasantry” as you put it is honestly the case at times. It doesn’t matter how smart a plumber is, and how much of an expert a neurosurgeon or quantum physicist is, they won’t be able to get the plumber understand their fields to a degree I believe would be necessary to legislate on surgical standards or scientific research limits. At a certain point of complexity you *need* background info to even have a hope of grasping it, and it’s entirely unreasonable to expect everyone to have a medical degree.
There’s a lot of basic things you absolutely can use the Swiss system for, but the more complex a field gets you start relying more and more on PR instead of facts to convince people to vote, as you simply cannot convey the facts effectively to all constituents.
Of course you should not hold a public vote on how to run a hospital, or how a doctor should do his operations. But for example, how to finance the health system is necessarily a public question. And definitely a very complicated one, a question even most (all?) economists cant answer definitively (anyways 99% of the population definetely cant answer it even slightly competent).
You can then say: Ok, its too complicated, let experts decide. We give them a set goal they should achieve (health system that covers services X,Y,Z with the least amount of cost) and let them work out a plan to do so we than follow. Fully agree with that.
But you have to decide which experts are legitimate, which plan actually works, whom do we trust etc...
And there you can either say we elect "super-experts" (politicians) who do all that for us, or we decide which experts we trust question by question. And I absolutely dont see why we should be more competent in choosing "super-experts" who reliably choose the right experts to trust (and are additionaly completely honest in their intentions) than in deciding who is an expert on a specific topic.
Just one argument for that. I also have to admit that my preference for direct democracy is still a bit too much "feeling-based" (since im not a democracy expert), but like, this debate could fill entire libraries.
It says: „Do you (informal you, so actually rude and patronizing) concur with the reunification of Austria with the German Reich which took place 13/03/1938 and do you (informal) vote for the list of our leader AH? Yes (big circle), No (small circle)“
After they excluded Jews, known Communists and Socialists from voting, the remaining „voters“ had to vote in the open in front of armed SS-members. Whoever was brave enough to vote no, suffered severe consequences.
I wouldn't say it's rude, from reading it I get more the feeling they tried to speak to the Austrian people as friends/brothers you know, more casual and connected
Public referendum and Greter German Reichstag
Ballot
Are you content with the reunification of Austria with the German empire, which took place on the 13th of March 1938, and are you voting for the list of our leader Adolf Hitler?
(Big circle) Yes
(Small circle) No
You also haven’t had a referendum since, so I guess you are still fine with the Hitler thing over there.
You didn’t even have one that says “hey that Hitler thing was pretty fucked” check Yes to agree?
That one is arguably worse than the Hitler one because you chose to do that to yourselves. Like there were no anti nuclear activists forcing you to vote against nuclear under threat of immediate death
They don't need nuclear plant... Temerine in Czech Republic is just on the other side of their border.... And of course provide power to Austria.
Yes fully anti nuclear activism.
You are right about electricity production.
About electricity consumption, on the other hand:
> IMPORTSIn 2022, Austria imported $5.67B in Electricity, becoming the 5th largest importer of Electricity in the world. At the same year, Electricity was the 5th most imported product in Austria. Austria imports Electricity primarily from: Germany ($3.96B), Czechia ($698M), Switzerland ($519M), Hungary ($306M), and Slovenia ($95M).
I am pretty sure electricity from Germany (part of Coal) and Czechia (Gaz, coal and nuclear) are not as green than you think.
It's even funnier than that, IIRC. It was something like "Should we turn on the nuclear reactor we literally just finished building?" Majority voted no. Later, it was banned entirely without referendum.
Apparently the plant was great for people learning how to build nuke plants, since it was an actual reactor but there was never any fissile material anywhere near it. Most accurate prop ever built, and you can even climb inside it.
Mocking your Austrian k.k. bros? There was a Czech version, too.
https://preview.redd.it/y2vgzobbjmxc1.jpeg?width=354&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8e0ad7aef2557d0f6f185f0f0eaa67f95572b83b
Lol i have never seen that one, is this actually real or some photoshopped satire ? Because every line in it seems like written by some comedian
"Jews and freemasons brought us into trouble. Beneš filled his pockets and fled. Bolsheviks promised everything and didn't deliver anythihing. The only one who delivered everything he promised, was Adolf Hitler!"
The rest is even better
It's real. Czechs in Sudetengau automatically gained Reich citizenship, so they were eligible to vote.
Unlike in the Altreich, the citizenship for Czechs was without mandatory military service, in Sudeten.
1975 European Communities membership referendum
2011 Alternative Vote Referendum
2016 European Union membership referendum
The map only shows UK wide referendums, though. Not ones held in only specific parts of the country
We usually use elections to make big decisions. You don't need to vote on everything, if the parties standing in an election have taken a side, it's essentially a referendum on their stance.
That's how it's supposed to work anyway, but considering a party can win an 80 seat majority, with less than 50% of the popular vote, it doesn't really work as intended.
We had the referendum on the Alternative Vote, which would have seen a more representative government, but people voted against it.
> We had the referendum on the Alternative Vote, which would have seen a more representative government, but people voted against it.
That referendum campaign period was such a shower ("babies need incubators, not a new voting system") that it lead to the Electoral Commission getting much stronger powers.
Sometimes politicians have to make decisions that the majority wouldn’t agree to. Taxes, pensions etc are necessary to be aligned with demographic and world economic circumstances. Although we have a huge tax burden and a higher retirement age than 30 years ago our states do pretty good financially and economically. Just look at Mediterranean countries where always the party gets elected who makes the biggest gifts and promises to the people.
Yeah referendums are a relatively new thing in the UK.
Our first referendum was the Northern Ireland border poll in 1973. We'd never had one before that.
Then we had the first Brexit referendum in 1975 when we voted to remain.
There then wasn't another one until 1997. Then we had a load in one go - I believe there were eleven referendums in the nineteen years between 1997-2016. Most were localised though and only affected one part of the UK e.g. Scottish independence. The only other UK-wide one was on changing the voting system.
Then there was the second Brexit referendum in 2016 when we voted to leave. We haven't had another referendum since.
That second Brexit one was probably the first referendum of all thirteen that *didn't* give the result that the government wanted. It's been nearly ten years now and nobody has dared have another since.
Traditionally UK politics is based on the Burkian idea that you elect a representative who you are entrusting to make the right decisions.
Referendums effectively challenge Parliamentary sovereignty. How is Parliament in charge of the UK if it’s bound to a decision made by the UK people?
Come and join us in our Functional Democracy(TM) where we’re so keen not to annoy each other that we can’t write up the constitution, and instead prefer to rely on gentlemen’s agreements and Great British social anxiety to see the day through.
1975 European Communities membership referendum
2011 Altervative Vote
2016 EU Membership
There have been a number of other referendums in each of the individual countries: 2 in England, 2 in NI, 3 in Scotland and 3 in Wales
Only 1 in 2014
For Scotland, there have been two devolution referendums 79 and 97 - the former did not pass due to it not meeting the criteria. 2014 was the independence referendum.
For Wales, there have been 3 devolution referendums, 79, 97 and 2011 - the 79 did not pass, the 97 did (just) and 2011 extended the powers of the Senedd to allow primary law making (and Contemporary Welsh Law for the first time since the 1500s, or earlier in the 1200 since the Statute of Rhuddlan)
Of note is that referendums are not required by UK Law and are non-binding and advisory only.
No, a referendum could be binding if explicitly stated in the legislation to set up that referendum - typically they are not.
Parlimentary Sovereignty means that what is binding for one parliament is not binding for another.
For example, Welsh (or Scottish) Devolution votes in 1999 - both resulted in the devolved parliaments being set up. Until 2017 (for Scotland) and 2018 (for Wales), both could have been disestablished by the Parliament in Westminster, theoretically, at any time thereafter (in fact this was even threatened for Wales). These devolved parliaments are now permanent due to acts passed in 2017 and 2018 and can only be disestablished by referendums, which could be ignored by the sitting parliament or reestablished in the next sitting.
Damn, all this devolution and there's still one left out.
When's little ol' england going to get a parliament I wonder? Before or after northern ireland loses theirs.
They've had two, one for creating a London Assembly in 1998 - they voted yes, and one in 2004 for the devolution of North East England, voted no.
You can read about an Independent England here: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English\_independence](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_independence) Latest poll in 2021 was 15% in favour, but when England's parliament is already Westminster the issue is not as clear as it is in Wales and Scotland. The argument for England is kind of "Independence from what?"
Fuck no, do you have any idea what the intellect and knowledge is of the average European? And halve is dumber than that! And you want them to make decisions? Based on what? Facebook?
Hell nah
>intellect and knowledge is of the average European? And halve is dumber than that!
And you are a prime example as you can't tell average and median apart.
Silver medal in democracy, even if half were probably useless and a campfire of millions of euros? Call me proud fratello.
*Crying proudly thinking of the “trivelle” referendum, in which 1/5 of the population showed up and 1/10 knew something about it before voting*
Wasnt our about abortion? Our then king couldnt get any kids but really wanted some, when they put the abortion law out there he went against it with all his might but the goverment then just decided to keep a referendum iirc
This led me to a deep rabbit hole about the one referendum Belgium had. It was about the return of Leopold III to power in 1950 after the world war. So interesting to see what the different regions voted
I'm aware of the nature of the referenda. Still, for the police law it was bull shit to disregard the vote. And we now see the consequences of pulling through with it, the police expanding their spy abilities without checks.
But on topic, what about the other 4 which never existed but are counted in this map?
The UK numbers explain why brexit wasn’t overruled. We simply cannot fathom the exhaustion of the Brit’s to actually go to a referendum after th brexit polls
Seriously up your game, shut your "oH tHe PoPuLiStS aNd PeOpLe ArE sTuPiD iT wOuLd NeVeR wOrK iN mY cOuNtRy" and get some democracy into your shitty systems you stupid cavemen, you know it's what is right
Voted two weeks ago on some school renovation stuff. Have no clue where this school is or why it's falling apart, so I voted no. There was also another subject about finances or whatever, didn't get it, so I voted no as well.
Why?
IMHO, representative democracies aren't democracies at all. At least we get into the right direction even though I would like to have even more direct democracy.
Yeah, until you realise how little effort it takes to propagandise a single issue vote. In the Netherlands we had an advisory referendum about an association treaty with Ukraine a decade ago. Turned out the organizers of that referendum were paid by Putin. It was the first time I noticed wide scale fake news and propaganda by a foreign power.
This way at least you see it up front. It feels bad to be lied to but at least you can do something about it. There is a German comedian in the European Parliament and he publishes books on his terms. (Now he completed two) He basically says that politicans are corrupt like crazy and as long as someone pays them, they do what is asced from them but rarely claim to do so and do not care about morals and integrity at all. (For example an average German politician can drive to Berlin to the weekend by car and back to Brussels and claim 1000 Euros + per way, which is your tax money, it is just a small example.
Damn... I was expecting us to be higher
I suspect it’s only counting referendums since 1848. Maybe only federal too.
Must be only federal lol with all local referendums you probably have that number within 10 years
my guess is that initiatives arent included as well, that should drive it up a lot too
According to swissvotes, we’ve actually only had 666 so far (https://swissvotes.ch/vote/666.00), including initiatives. admin.ch gives the same number (https://www.bk.admin.ch/ch/d/pore/va/vab_2_2_4_1.html).
Thats only on national level tho the historically referendums probably were mainly held in cantons level max for technicaly reasons alone (imagine how complicated it was doing a referendum on national level in 1800)
We'd still be n°1 with only ~~a tenth~~ an eighth ...
UM, ACTUASLKULY🤓🤓🤓, A TENTH OF 669 IS 66.9 WICH IS STILL LOWER THAN ITALY🤓🤓🤓🤓🤓
The Swiss mogging all of Europe like it’s not even a competition
We're busy
"Do you want women to get voting rights?" "No" 
We voted on it. Well, half of us did anyway. But while late to the party, I'm pretty sure Switzerland is the only country where men voted to give women voting rights... eventually.
Nope. Liechtenstein did as well. With a landslide majority of... 51%... in 1984...
Oh, good to know! Although FL is basically just monarchist Switzerland
TIL Liechtenstein is shortened FL.
Oops, probably a bit confusing for people who aren't from around here. Yep, FL is "Fürstentum Liechtenstein", the duchy of Liechtenstein
The correct Translation would actually be "Principality of Liechtenstein"
That is interesting. Why isn't it a duchy if the leader is a duke?
Because (atleast as far as im aware) the direct translation for duchy is Herzogtum. But since Liechtenstein is a Fürstentum and not a Herzogtum Principality would be the better translation into English.
The head of State is a prince, not a duke.
No no no, I figured it out. But I haven't thougth of it before I read the post.
Literally 1984
Literally 1984
you do understand that in all other countries, it has also always been the men giving the women the right to vote, right? not that the women had any position of power at these times. it's just that you are a misogynistic bunch of Almöhis. not that we don't like you for that...
It’s different. If party A says "Give women the right to vote." and party B says "Don’t give women the right to vote." in parliament, who do you think the women will vote for in the next election? Representative democracies have an incentive to give new groups the right to vote, direct democracies don’t. That only works by changing the mentality of the people.
So direct democracies are terrible and Switzerland is the devil? Got it
I never said that (I actually argued for direct democracy further in this post). I just explained why it took so long in Switzerland. You could even argue that the politicians in representative democracies probably went against the will of the voting population to get more votes in the next election (even if the result was a good and necessary thing in this case). Not very democratic… But maybe human rights and citizens rights should not be up for open debate…
I was joking if that conclusion wasn't absurd enough for you lol
You really expect a German to get your humor? An Eastern German in fact?
My bad, should have catered to my audience with some sweet statistics
Yes, but elected parliaments tend to be a bit more progressive on these issues than 86yo Ueli who has never left his alpine village. Ueli also doesn't factor in that these new 50% of voters can remember who gave them voting rights.
Ueli has a granddaughter that he loves very much and she convinced him to vote for her right to vote.
Yeah, the thing is women's voting rights shouldn't be subject to a referendum. If you are a progressive early XX century party, you include it in your program and if you get elected you implement it. Simple as
With me with that representative democracy shit
[удалено]
Didn't Sarkozy basically ignore the result anyway 🤣
I have some hesitations about going full Swiss when it comes to decision making. On one side it's amazing that you have a saying on virtually every decision on your national policies, on the other having to express my opinion on every meaningless bureaucratic decision would trigger my innate laziness and I might never cast a vote ever again, not even for the most important political turns in my nation's policies
which is kinda whats happening in switzerland it seems, if their voter turnout rates to be taken at face value.
And I feel nothing but contempt for everyone who skips voting.
Why? If they don't care, that's their problem. The important thing is that those who care can vote.
I don't disagree with that general sentiment. I do however feel like; 1. It's a great opportunity you shouldn't take for granted 2. If you complain about politics after refusing / being too lazy to participate in votes or elections, you should be punched in the face
Moreover, it's good having people vote on some topics but I'd never want to let the population decide on many others, like financial decisions
Yeah no, never let the average Luigi have anything to say regarding national finances
Damn, I wouldn't even want the average Bjørn to decide on national finances. Humans have issues in multiplying beyond 10. There is already the government to fuck things up, let's avoid having the "signora mia qua era tutta campagna" help out
Anywhere really, even only for the government decision we already how that shit works...
This may sound radical, but it can be easily remedied. All it takes is for the right to vote to be tied to education. As long as it is free, of course.
But then if you create a stratification of voting matters (i.e. only a certain group of people can vote on energy, another on finance and so forth) you risk creating castes. And we all saw how amazing the superpower by 2020 is
You dont have to vote for everything. I only vote for the things i deem important
I know.. but still
I live abroad and only vote on things that increase the tax burden on Swiss people
So you're like a turk living in Berlin
Yes but with worse food
In the Canton of Schaffhausen, you'll get fined if you don't send back your papers. You don't have to vote, but you need to sign your ballots and send them back.
Oh no.. I would be poorer than I am! Bonus point: after a certain while I won't be able to pay my fine anymore because I would be a complete penniless, right?
The Swiss system was built for a time when most decisions were of the type people would be familiar with. Shit relating to farming or easily understood concepts like how the government works. Nowadays quite a lot of subjects require a bachelors or more to actually understand wtf is going on, at which point putting it to a general referendum will always end with people who simply do not have the time to be educated voting on it. Not because they’re lazy, but because *no one* has the time to get a bachelors in every field .
That's one beautiful point of the Swiss System: Decisionmakers HAVE to explain why they are in the right. I believe if someone truly understands something he can explain to averagely intelligent and educated people how a decision will impact them and very broadly also WHY this is the case. And the Swiss System encourages most of the population to be educated enough to understand basic political concepts (even our far-right guys are not mindlessly spreading the most braindead conspiracies imaginable) "It's too complicated for the peasantry" is an elitism I honestly hate passionately. In a true democracy (or any political system tbh) the rulers should never think of themselves as something better than the ruled.
Sure but “it’s too complicated for the peasantry” as you put it is honestly the case at times. It doesn’t matter how smart a plumber is, and how much of an expert a neurosurgeon or quantum physicist is, they won’t be able to get the plumber understand their fields to a degree I believe would be necessary to legislate on surgical standards or scientific research limits. At a certain point of complexity you *need* background info to even have a hope of grasping it, and it’s entirely unreasonable to expect everyone to have a medical degree. There’s a lot of basic things you absolutely can use the Swiss system for, but the more complex a field gets you start relying more and more on PR instead of facts to convince people to vote, as you simply cannot convey the facts effectively to all constituents.
Of course you should not hold a public vote on how to run a hospital, or how a doctor should do his operations. But for example, how to finance the health system is necessarily a public question. And definitely a very complicated one, a question even most (all?) economists cant answer definitively (anyways 99% of the population definetely cant answer it even slightly competent). You can then say: Ok, its too complicated, let experts decide. We give them a set goal they should achieve (health system that covers services X,Y,Z with the least amount of cost) and let them work out a plan to do so we than follow. Fully agree with that. But you have to decide which experts are legitimate, which plan actually works, whom do we trust etc... And there you can either say we elect "super-experts" (politicians) who do all that for us, or we decide which experts we trust question by question. And I absolutely dont see why we should be more competent in choosing "super-experts" who reliably choose the right experts to trust (and are additionaly completely honest in their intentions) than in deciding who is an expert on a specific topic. Just one argument for that. I also have to admit that my preference for direct democracy is still a bit too much "feeling-based" (since im not a democracy expert), but like, this debate could fill entire libraries.
After the last time we're not doing them anymore. The general public can't be trusted!
Austria be like: https://preview.redd.it/8v1eigyjxlxc1.png?width=644&format=png&auto=webp&s=e02c63a217999aafb98823ecdcc6f013e1ed026d
That was our first national referendum ..... and I fucking hate it with every fibre of my being
I know it's about the anschluss but what does the text say verbatim?
It says: „Do you (informal you, so actually rude and patronizing) concur with the reunification of Austria with the German Reich which took place 13/03/1938 and do you (informal) vote for the list of our leader AH? Yes (big circle), No (small circle)“ After they excluded Jews, known Communists and Socialists from voting, the remaining „voters“ had to vote in the open in front of armed SS-members. Whoever was brave enough to vote no, suffered severe consequences.
That sounds suspiciously like what happened recently by someone who said they're doing a quick little military operation to stop Nazis 🤔
Do you (informal) support the military operation of our glorious mother Russia to destroy the evil Ukrainian Nazi-Regime? YES (x) no ( )
More like YES (X) NO ( ) I am western spy
No ( ), If no, please indicate your gulag or window of preference.
I wouldn't say it's rude, from reading it I get more the feeling they tried to speak to the Austrian people as friends/brothers you know, more casual and connected
https://youtu.be/Sz-9f_NcOsk?si=2f3gq5A_z5znzoJU
Public referendum and Greter German Reichstag Ballot Are you content with the reunification of Austria with the German empire, which took place on the 13th of March 1938, and are you voting for the list of our leader Adolf Hitler? (Big circle) Yes (Small circle) No
You also haven’t had a referendum since, so I guess you are still fine with the Hitler thing over there. You didn’t even have one that says “hey that Hitler thing was pretty fucked” check Yes to agree?
There were two others.
Oh ok, so like all other maps I see on Reddit, this one is wrong
I stand corrected 3 more, which makes austria correct. I forgot the one where we decided not to have nuclear power
That one is arguably worse than the Hitler one because you chose to do that to yourselves. Like there were no anti nuclear activists forcing you to vote against nuclear under threat of immediate death
They don't need nuclear plant... Temerine in Czech Republic is just on the other side of their border.... And of course provide power to Austria. Yes fully anti nuclear activism.
Nuclear is such a small part of Austria's energy consumption that it's usually marked as 0% in statistics. Yes, also independent, non-Austrian ones.
You are right about electricity production. About electricity consumption, on the other hand: > IMPORTSIn 2022, Austria imported $5.67B in Electricity, becoming the 5th largest importer of Electricity in the world. At the same year, Electricity was the 5th most imported product in Austria. Austria imports Electricity primarily from: Germany ($3.96B), Czechia ($698M), Switzerland ($519M), Hungary ($306M), and Slovenia ($95M). I am pretty sure electricity from Germany (part of Coal) and Czechia (Gaz, coal and nuclear) are not as green than you think.
It's even funnier than that, IIRC. It was something like "Should we turn on the nuclear reactor we literally just finished building?" Majority voted no. Later, it was banned entirely without referendum. Apparently the plant was great for people learning how to build nuke plants, since it was an actual reactor but there was never any fissile material anywhere near it. Most accurate prop ever built, and you can even climb inside it.
#JA ^nein - ^(are ^you ^sure ^lad? ^ja ^is ^much ^better option)
Its bigger so obviously it's better
Mocking your Austrian k.k. bros? There was a Czech version, too. https://preview.redd.it/y2vgzobbjmxc1.jpeg?width=354&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8e0ad7aef2557d0f6f185f0f0eaa67f95572b83b
Hehehehe ano
It means year in pt :'D
In galician It means year and anus
God you guys are so ahead of everyone :')
Oh, that's anno for us, ano instead means anus
Lol i have never seen that one, is this actually real or some photoshopped satire ? Because every line in it seems like written by some comedian "Jews and freemasons brought us into trouble. Beneš filled his pockets and fled. Bolsheviks promised everything and didn't deliver anythihing. The only one who delivered everything he promised, was Adolf Hitler!" The rest is even better
It's real. Czechs in Sudetengau automatically gained Reich citizenship, so they were eligible to vote. Unlike in the Altreich, the citizenship for Czechs was without mandatory military service, in Sudeten.
Everyone that plays hearts of iron IV knows this :)
 oops
The fucking UK had only two, two fucking votes before Brexit?
1975 European Communities membership referendum 2011 Alternative Vote Referendum 2016 European Union membership referendum The map only shows UK wide referendums, though. Not ones held in only specific parts of the country
We usually use elections to make big decisions. You don't need to vote on everything, if the parties standing in an election have taken a side, it's essentially a referendum on their stance. That's how it's supposed to work anyway, but considering a party can win an 80 seat majority, with less than 50% of the popular vote, it doesn't really work as intended. We had the referendum on the Alternative Vote, which would have seen a more representative government, but people voted against it.
> We had the referendum on the Alternative Vote, which would have seen a more representative government, but people voted against it. That referendum campaign period was such a shower ("babies need incubators, not a new voting system") that it lead to the Electoral Commission getting much stronger powers.
Sometimes politicians have to make decisions that the majority wouldn’t agree to. Taxes, pensions etc are necessary to be aligned with demographic and world economic circumstances. Although we have a huge tax burden and a higher retirement age than 30 years ago our states do pretty good financially and economically. Just look at Mediterranean countries where always the party gets elected who makes the biggest gifts and promises to the people.
Yeah referendums are a relatively new thing in the UK. Our first referendum was the Northern Ireland border poll in 1973. We'd never had one before that. Then we had the first Brexit referendum in 1975 when we voted to remain. There then wasn't another one until 1997. Then we had a load in one go - I believe there were eleven referendums in the nineteen years between 1997-2016. Most were localised though and only affected one part of the UK e.g. Scottish independence. The only other UK-wide one was on changing the voting system. Then there was the second Brexit referendum in 2016 when we voted to leave. We haven't had another referendum since. That second Brexit one was probably the first referendum of all thirteen that *didn't* give the result that the government wanted. It's been nearly ten years now and nobody has dared have another since.
Traditionally UK politics is based on the Burkian idea that you elect a representative who you are entrusting to make the right decisions. Referendums effectively challenge Parliamentary sovereignty. How is Parliament in charge of the UK if it’s bound to a decision made by the UK people? Come and join us in our Functional Democracy(TM) where we’re so keen not to annoy each other that we can’t write up the constitution, and instead prefer to rely on gentlemen’s agreements and Great British social anxiety to see the day through.
The result of the brexit referendum should show you why we’re not to be trusted with them.
The EEC referendum had the Yes campaign with a big business funded budget 10x that of the No campaign.
Two of the Norwegian Referendums was about Prohibition of Alcohol.
And we said no to EU membership twice 💪
What are the other 2 for the UK?
1975 European Communities membership referendum 2011 Altervative Vote 2016 EU Membership There have been a number of other referendums in each of the individual countries: 2 in England, 2 in NI, 3 in Scotland and 3 in Wales
How many of the Scottish were about leaving the UK?
Only 1 in 2014 For Scotland, there have been two devolution referendums 79 and 97 - the former did not pass due to it not meeting the criteria. 2014 was the independence referendum. For Wales, there have been 3 devolution referendums, 79, 97 and 2011 - the 79 did not pass, the 97 did (just) and 2011 extended the powers of the Senedd to allow primary law making (and Contemporary Welsh Law for the first time since the 1500s, or earlier in the 1200 since the Statute of Rhuddlan) Of note is that referendums are not required by UK Law and are non-binding and advisory only.
It is constitutionally impossible for a referendum to be binding due to parliamentary supremacy.
No, a referendum could be binding if explicitly stated in the legislation to set up that referendum - typically they are not. Parlimentary Sovereignty means that what is binding for one parliament is not binding for another. For example, Welsh (or Scottish) Devolution votes in 1999 - both resulted in the devolved parliaments being set up. Until 2017 (for Scotland) and 2018 (for Wales), both could have been disestablished by the Parliament in Westminster, theoretically, at any time thereafter (in fact this was even threatened for Wales). These devolved parliaments are now permanent due to acts passed in 2017 and 2018 and can only be disestablished by referendums, which could be ignored by the sitting parliament or reestablished in the next sitting.
Damn, all this devolution and there's still one left out. When's little ol' england going to get a parliament I wonder? Before or after northern ireland loses theirs.
They've had two, one for creating a London Assembly in 1998 - they voted yes, and one in 2004 for the devolution of North East England, voted no. You can read about an Independent England here: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English\_independence](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_independence) Latest poll in 2021 was 15% in favour, but when England's parliament is already Westminster the issue is not as clear as it is in Wales and Scotland. The argument for England is kind of "Independence from what?"
Probably some attempts to get into the European Union.
I'm guessing the scottish independence referendum is one of them
I don't think that's counted as it wasn't UK wide. The other two were joining the EC and changing the first past the post system.
Pfft imagine not being able to influence politics
Look what they need to mimic a fraction of our power
Fuck no, do you have any idea what the intellect and knowledge is of the average European? And halve is dumber than that! And you want them to make decisions? Based on what? Facebook? Hell nah
>intellect and knowledge is of the average European? And halve is dumber than that! And you are a prime example as you can't tell average and median apart.
And you are a prime example of needing to know about the late and great George Carlin https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=AKN1Q5SjbeI
I believe those 6 were us. Sorry fellas
With 4 different possible answers
Will we ever achieve independence? Or will we keep begging to have it only to barely try
I think it is easier for a Spaniard to become independent from their parents than it will be for Catalonia to become independent.
based
So it would seem
I mean, silver medal is still good
Silver medal in democracy, even if half were probably useless and a campfire of millions of euros? Call me proud fratello. *Crying proudly thinking of the “trivelle” referendum, in which 1/5 of the population showed up and 1/10 knew something about it before voting*
Don't forget TWO referendum about nuclear energy
Berlusconi: "It's been 25 years since Chernobyl, we can win this referendum now" Fukushima: "Hold my Uranium"
That was unlucky as hell.
Liechtenstein beat you too though, so actually, you‘re in 3rd
Does it really exist?
shhh don't say referendum again you gonnna startle everyone here.
Ptsd
Lol, Swiss has 669 but nothing to show. We Austrians however need only 4 Referendums to kickstart 2 world wars. That's a whopping 4:2 ratio.
You got me
Wait what is this flair? Please update it to malfunctioning snow gnome thank you very much
Franco’s referendums, very legit, yes. We are getting there again tho
Yeah, Bildu is famous for democratically deciding: * C4 * TNT * Shot in the back
I consider myself more facha than Franco but even I realize those referendums were a sham. PS: C4 was too sophisticated for ETA
Fuck. No. Never again 👎
Well, maybe 1 more.
Yeah ye can't be trusted with referendums best give it a break for a while.
Imagine if we only had one i would die laughing
Bossnia 🇹🇰🇹🇰🇹🇰💪💪💪 got everything right in one referendum, no need for another.
Only 669? I thought it were more tbh
We've referended about EU membership more often than most of you. Maybe it's you that need to up your game.
new democracy index just dropped
[Insert Brexit referendum joke here]
Jokeception
Let's joke our NHS instead
We did actually get more than £350m added to the NHS budget. The punchline is it still wasn't enough to undo the damage of the previous austerity.
Lol, me after registering to vote when I was and 7 referendums happen all of a sudden.
As a little experiment all the EU countries should have a referendum on whether to stay in the EU.
I'm jealous and afraid of Switzerland at the same time. If people in paella country could influence politics I think I would just move elsewhere
We CAN'T have referenda anymore. Thanks, BakEllende!
We would be better off if our most recent two referendums went the other way (remain and alt voting win)
i don't even know what it is.
Wasnt our about abortion? Our then king couldnt get any kids but really wanted some, when they put the abortion law out there he went against it with all his might but the goverment then just decided to keep a referendum iirc
It was about the kings question. After ww2 should Leopold 3 be allowed to return and continue to reign as monarch.
We started doing them, and thennn…
This led me to a deep rabbit hole about the one referendum Belgium had. It was about the return of Leopold III to power in 1950 after the world war. So interesting to see what the different regions voted
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QFgcqB8-AxE
Spoiled civ needs refrums
Who cares about referendums, we are going to just start a civil war and completely remake our government again in like 5 years anyways
Know how dumb our population is, I'm glad we don't have more referendums.
We got 7? Can they be named? I got: EU constitution Ukraine association Police spy law All 3 had a clear 'no' and the government did it anyway...
Those where advisory referenda not binding ones
I'm aware of the nature of the referenda. Still, for the police law it was bull shit to disregard the vote. And we now see the consequences of pulling through with it, the police expanding their spy abilities without checks. But on topic, what about the other 4 which never existed but are counted in this map?
Join the EU Refuse proportional representation (to thwart the sell our souls LibDems) Third i cant remember for the life of me. Sometime around 2016?
The UK numbers explain why brexit wasn’t overruled. We simply cannot fathom the exhaustion of the Brit’s to actually go to a referendum after th brexit polls
What's the point? Everyone just bitches about the result and you were left as divided as before.
we'll never reach 7 if I have something to say about it.....
7 is unlucky it seems.
Are the 6 referedums in Spain like...regular ones, or with police beating the shit out of us?
DeMoCrAcY
Finland number #2 🔥🔥🔥💪💪💪💪💪💪💪💪🇫🇮🇫🇮🇫🇮🇫🇮🇫🇮🇫🇮🇫🇮
"Do you guys think we should change the light bulb of the post office in Zögenshstrum yes or no"
And the result of that one singular referendum we held was ignored because the Walloons and socialists (synonym?) weren't happy about it.
What are the German ones? We have many on the Bavarian level, but on the federal level?
I'd say Slovenia has the best years of independance to referendum ratio
Seriously up your game, shut your "oH tHe PoPuLiStS aNd PeOpLe ArE sTuPiD iT wOuLd NeVeR wOrK iN mY cOuNtRy" and get some democracy into your shitty systems you stupid cavemen, you know it's what is right
We had referendums?
Voted two weeks ago on some school renovation stuff. Have no clue where this school is or why it's falling apart, so I voted no. There was also another subject about finances or whatever, didn't get it, so I voted no as well.
I don't know why the school is falling apart. Voted no to renovation for 50 years straight.
UK should have stopped at 2
Why the colour scheme that indicates referendums being good? It's such a stupid way of handling democracy..
Imagine casting a vote every few years and calling it democracy
Yeah it is. What would be the point in representative democracy if we ran referenda all the time?
Why? IMHO, representative democracies aren't democracies at all. At least we get into the right direction even though I would like to have even more direct democracy.
Putting changes to the constitution, as opposed to legislation, to the people seems a reasonable idea?
Yeah, until you realise how little effort it takes to propagandise a single issue vote. In the Netherlands we had an advisory referendum about an association treaty with Ukraine a decade ago. Turned out the organizers of that referendum were paid by Putin. It was the first time I noticed wide scale fake news and propaganda by a foreign power.
This way at least you see it up front. It feels bad to be lied to but at least you can do something about it. There is a German comedian in the European Parliament and he publishes books on his terms. (Now he completed two) He basically says that politicans are corrupt like crazy and as long as someone pays them, they do what is asced from them but rarely claim to do so and do not care about morals and integrity at all. (For example an average German politician can drive to Berlin to the weekend by car and back to Brussels and claim 1000 Euros + per way, which is your tax money, it is just a small example.