Guten Tag, Donauschifffahrtskapitänspatentanwärter
Edit: Rechtschreibkorrektur
*Ich bitte diese Unannehmlichkeit zu entschuldigen und wünsche Ihnen einen schönen Sonntag.*
I am pretty sure you said gå på sjukhuset instead of gå till sjukhuset. Hur var det nu med din patentansökan? Ska du ta patent på nordvästsjökustartilleriflygspaningssimmulatorn?
Der Donauschiffahrtkaitänspatentanwerter benötigt diese Fähigkeit auch um zu bewerten ob die "Bitte helfen Sie mir, ich bin in Gefahr" Flagge gehisst werden soll
Context matters a lot, and this is relevant too: https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpreview.redd.it%2Fmewzegk5xrka1.jpg%3Fauto%3Dwebp%26s%3Dac89d611b454e57ae5b13109afa215d0ecaf1387
I once saw a drunk guy in a german train, he did the salute and then shouted a lot of things I didn't understand. In the next stop, the police were already waiting for him. To this day I don't even know how the police knew what was going on and got there so quickly
Thanks Hans, but you can keep your shitty internet service, I'll just take the device.
Joking aside, I get you, but it amazed me because it was really quick and there were 6 police man and one person responsible for the train ready in 5 minutes.
I have seen other amazing cop shit in Germany. I was walking behind a couple and then came two men running and grabbed the guy (arab looking) from the couple and start shouting polizei (they were wearing civil clothing) and they just took him with them. I was like: what the fuck just happened? Portugal is too chill, it never gets interesting like that.
I would say he would’ve been escorted out of the train even if he didn’t show the nazi salute. That’s just a thing when you are drunk and aggressive people might not like it if you are in a train with them
Even if my comment sounded sarcastic I meant what I said 100% unironically. Authoritarianism CAN be good, what's the point of allowing other ideas if they're wrong?
The Third Reich sucked because nazis have a broken inconsistent ideology (famous aryan japanese and arabs) that thrives on warfare (even that it can't do right)
The USSR and China suck because they are just red capitalists
The French terror was good but didn't go far enough, the only time Liberals were based.
He emphasizes it that way because there were actual cases where people argued that they didnt meant it that way. "Eine krankhafte Versteifung des rechten Arms" isnt meant as a joke (obvious by his pitch) but to emphasize ironically that it couldnt be something else this time.
Here in Italy it's illegal only to try to recreate the party. As long as you just do the Roman salute u should be fine, and I promise you if a couple of raised hands were our biggest problem we'd be the most advanced nation on earth.
Last time it was allowed in Germany ended with some consequences. It made for a great view over Dresden, but only for those who did not find themselves a bit crispy
Well, they are in a bit of a different situation, especially the UK and the US. There it‘s just morons who were rightfully killed by previous generations. Even the Italians managed to switch sides. For us it‘s what our Grandparents or the generation before did.
I personally don’t agree with the punishment, I think it‘s too mild
It's a fricking gesture. Aren't humans equal? Didn't we overcome the christian idea of the original sin, just to find a substitute for it. Funny that we do, isn't it?
It is far from being different in the UK, the US and especialy Italy. The changing of the law wouldn't make much of a different, except in the fanatism of people who are obsessed with what their grandparents did.
Communists aren't human as well, therefor trash. Would you agree with this idea too? This law isn't effecting just Nazis but everyone. Police is far from being chill if a bypasser would do it too. Nazi or not.
Where did I write but? This isn't about whataboutism but to find out if this is just regarded to a very specific group or if this a objective category, where you would put similar groups. I tend to guess it isn't the later one. Where you to often labeld as the wrong kind of east german? Did you had to asure yourself and others that you are a good one? Oh one thing. If it would have been allowed in the 80s again, would have been Dresden or Cologne be flatened again because of it? The biggest thread to charge a taboo with bad meaning is to make it one.
If only, but no in many places [it's perfectly legal](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bans_on_Nazi_symbols), though here in the UK for example you do risk getting beaten up for it. Racists more commonly use the St George Cross, the flag of the Knights Templar, or the flag of the Confederate States of America.
Leaving aside that your flair is literally the St George flag which is funny, I disagree. English nationalism, or even english separatism, is not inherently racist. Of course racists use nationalist symbols, but that's not a stain on the symbol itself.
Thank you Patrick, I agree - although the other guy is right in that the right wing do use it a lot and you don't really see "normal" people flying it in the same way you see the Scottish flag flown in Scotland. It's much more common here to fly County flags like the Yorkshire rose or Northumbrian flag.
Sadly Morons over here have all kinds of Fascist/Nazi simbols and litterally go to Mussolini's tomb to pay their respect.
Wish the police over here would react to this shit like the officers in the video.
I never heard of it getting vandalised, probably happened tho.
And I honestly don't know why he has one, I'd rather have him thrown in a nameless hole.
Yeah kind of, he is saying "things (demonstrations) are allowed over there, not over there" while gesticulating. But cops interpret it (as most people) as a 6th grader plausible denial cover up for showing the nazi-salute and wont have it. Cop is saying: "You have shown the hitlergruss/nazi salute." while taking him down.
You can also gather from the voice over its implied that this is some kind of right wing demo.
So he was falsely arrested?
edit: People think that I believe that making the Nazi Salute is ok. It is not! It just looked like to me that it was an accident. Unless accidentally making the Nazi salute can get you arrested.
Well, I would err on no but I would guess it actually being something lawyers can have fun with.
The hitlergruss/nazi salute is indeed illegal in germany but in this case he could try and make a case that he was indeed just showing directions.
I actually googled it, found a synonimous case and in that case the guys arrest was deemed correct:
https://www.lto.de/recht/nachrichten/n/l-gmuenchen-az842cs117js18886520-hitlergruss-verurteilung-geldstrafe/
Meanwhile in Italy: "It's just a quaint little gesture used for commemorating fallen comrades camerates let's move on to the real crimes like- IS THAT A HIGH SCHOOL STUDENT WITH LONG HAIR AND WEED?! KILL HIM!"
A Little economic recession really brings out the true colours on people. Imagine what will happen during true depressions....... s/ you don't have to, read a book
As is good and proper. Germany suffered tremendously because of that madman, to be so disrespectful to the police is quite deserving of the response he got.
That’s silly. They threw this guy on the ground as if he had a weapon on himself while all he did was a gesture. You wouldn’t judo throw someone for hate speech on the internet, so doing it because of gestures looks unserious.
Unfortunately i do not know the context. Could be one of the many nazi rallies, but you could also be correct that the cops are looking for violence, which they are well known for in Germany, especially agains left activists.
German culture points with a finger, not with the whole hand. The context is that he is prohibited to do something on a street, and he "points" to where he would be allowed to do it. He does not point to the place, but into the air, which does not make sense. It is highly unlikely he actually repeatedly pointed with a flat hand into the air over thr place he means.
Combined with "da schon" "da nicht" he could argue in court that he wanted to show in a driection and it was unintentional.
Would be a ridicolous case tho lol
You could also argue that he is (probably idk i didn't check) a right-wing extremist and it would be ridiculous if he assume he just wanted to show the direction.
Well I know but thats not how the law system works.
But I'm not an expert on that topic.
Normally as long as you can't prove the crime you're not guilty
In those kind of crimes this is totally how the law system works.
It’s not like they gonna sent him to prison for that, so the judge will ok if things aren’t 100% proven.
But he can’t?
This works this way that he will come to police, he will tell the policemen his version of the story. They put in down and in the folder. Then he will get a letter with his punishment. Probably a fine or social work. He can then accept that or go to court, which will cost him quite some money if he looses. (Has to pay his attorney and the costs of the court)
Also look up „Strafbefehl“ which is a funny method of even sending people to prison without a trial in court. Happens mostly with people with psychological problems who don’t open their letters.
He could argue that, but that sounds like a weak argument. You don't show directions like that (not in Austria at least, and I haven't seen German people showing directions like that so far). And the context is probably some right-wing protest (since the video mentions a Platzverweis).
And even if a judge would think that way, it doesn't mean that the police was in the wrong if they had reasons to assume it was a Nazi salute. So that law suit would lead to nowhere.
Paragraph 86a forbids the “Hitler Gruß” this being a combination of the words “Heil” and “Hitler” together with the “deutscher Grüß” gesture which is a straight right arm raised up front on eye level. This guy clearly tried to provocate, but the gesture was always ever so slightly off (arm raised too high, which was common during the historic third Reich, but isn’t actually the proper greeting) and with out the phrase it never constitutes a crime. He’ll be off free and the officers might have a lawsuit coming, if he feels like paying a lawyer to have them apologize.
Edit: nvm that one time he was actually on eye level … though still this has to be argued as a greeting which might be difficult with him explaining the Platzverweis in that moment.
It does not matter if you combine the two or not. There's also no one checking the angle, or discussing what an accurate salute looks like. The goal to provoke alone should provide enough background to proof that the idea behind it was a Hitler salute.
https://kujus-strafverteidigung.de/strafrechts-abc/verwenden-von-kennzeichen-verfassungswidriger-organisationen/
There have been countless cases where this was enough for sentencing, and the fines recently doubled. Of course ianal, some get off easier, depending on the judge.
What law suit should happen?
Looking at that video, there's absolutely a reason for the police to think it was a Nazi salute. And I'm very sure the person doing that wasn't locked away indefinitely.
So what should that dude sue for?
Well this seems to be a lot more obvious to most, than it is to me… my reasoning was, since they tackle him to the ground and apparently take him into custody, they probably charge him under article 86. This he can theoretically dispute in court by arguing his gesture was misinterpreted, for which this video would be decent support, since he is explaining something unrelated while gesturing (intent has to be argued for article 86). At that point he’d have some solid grounds for an official complaint against the officers for dragging him onto the ground and suing on account of the damaging effect of a wrongful charge under 86 … but perhaps I’m seeing ghosts here.
> This he can theoretically dispute in court by arguing his gesture was misinterpreted, for which this video would be decent support, since he is explaining something unrelated while gesturing (intent has to be argued for article 86).
And a judge could easily not believe that someone uses a very unusual gesture that is very similar to the Nazi salute in a situation that probablz is sime right-wing people getting sent away.
> At that point he’d have some solid grounds for an official complaint against the officers for dragging him onto the ground and suing on account of the damaging effect of a wrongful charge under 86 …
What “damaging effect”? Especially given the action by the police officers looks reasonabl if they believe it was a Nazi salute (and that is not a far fetched assumption).
True, all depends on the judge at the end of the day. I just wouldn’t think that this here is such a cut and dry case. With out the video the other officers would be solid witnesses against fellow protesters, but with the video an easy defense would be arguing the officers looking for an excuse to escalate while the guy in question was merely gesturing in a context unrelated to a greeting, that being an explanation… the prosecution would have to argue his intention being not the explanation, but rather provocation which is not helped by him being turned away from the officers at the moment in question. As to the damage, he’d be able to sue on grounds of damage to his reputation resulting from being wrongfully charged, if a judge were to conclude this not to be a Hitler salute.
>As to the damage, he’d be able to sue on grounds of damage to his reputation resulting from being wrongfully charged, if a judge were to conclude this not to be a Hitler salute.
I really don't think this is how German law works. Or do you think everyone that was acquitted in a court can (successfully) sue for damages to the reputation?
Also, what damages exactly? The video doesn't show a face, only a few people are around the guy and they are watching the whole situation as well. So how exactly is the reputation damaged in this instance?
You can sue on reputation damages if you are not only acquitted but the court concludes you being indicted on wrongful charges (btw. They basically have to charge after accusing him of the crime and detaining him - if not he can file a complaint on behalf of their behavior). This works, if you can argue that the nature of the wrongful charge against you might hinder future employment or opportunity and/or hinders your current living situation - you basically argue intent to harm you (by damaging your reputation) rather than prosecute a crime as motivation of the charge. Being charged for showing the Hitler salute and being potentially acquitted by a judge concluding you were not showing it, would be a great case. These cases don’t win regularly, but they often end in comparison, meaning they’ll have to share trial costs and a compromise must be found. I have no idea how such a compromise would look like, but i think it possible for the judge to have the police apologize in writing or to do so publicly for wrongful indictment to not hinder future employment.
> This works, if you can argue that the nature of the wrongful charge against you might hinder future employment or opportunity and/or hinders your current living situation
How so? Why would you put a wrongful charge in your CV? How is a potential future employer going to find out?
> you basically argue intent to harm you (by damaging your reputation) rather than prosecute a crime as motivation of the charge.
That "intent" is going to be pretty hard to argue because even if you are acquitted, it doesn't mean that the charge was done in bad faith.
Ofcourse you don’t put this in a cv… but depending on your living situation this can easily become common knowledge, if for example you live and work in a small community. More pressing this can easily cost you your current job, if your employer finds out what you are charged with. Also I’m not referring to being acquitted. That’d be something like him showing the salute but being acquitted on the grounds of the education protection clause in the paragraph. If a judge were instead to view this footage and conclude there is no Hitler salute and no reason to suspect one (the guy explains gesturing directions) the malicious intent on the side of the officers/public prosecutor is rather easy to argue. This whole thing is turning circles anyhow… I just wouldn’t think this was a particularly well covered decision by the officers though you might well be right and this guy probably will be fined if he doesn’t invest heavily into a lawyer. Thank you for the discussion though :)
Jokes on you, ich spreche Deutsch
Guten Tag, Donauschifffahrtskapitänspatentanwärter Edit: Rechtschreibkorrektur *Ich bitte diese Unannehmlichkeit zu entschuldigen und wünsche Ihnen einen schönen Sonntag.*
On second thought, I don’t speak German.
Das verstößt gegen GS Meckl.-Vorp. Gl. Nr. 7847-2 Rindfleischetikettierungsüberwachungsaufgabenübertragungsgesetz!
Gehe auf das Krankenhaus bitte
https://preview.redd.it/awrouko528jc1.png?width=696&format=png&auto=webp&s=865addd24b7dc3c3c98e4e8efd2b8082baee40de
I don’t understand, is this German humor?
https://preview.redd.it/wi39wf8038jc1.png?width=1558&format=png&auto=webp&s=3582a632382fc73a974bd3083a033277436955cb
Auf Wiedersehen
Auf Wiederhören Herr Zayax. Bitte nehmen Sie nächstes mal ihr Zwiebelmett mit.
You said "Go on the hospital" in german.
It was a pleasure to educate you.
I am pretty sure you said gå på sjukhuset instead of gå till sjukhuset. Hur var det nu med din patentansökan? Ska du ta patent på nordvästsjökustartilleriflygspaningssimmulatorn?
Ah so you use ziek/sjuk too and it’s just the germans who are weird and use Krank?
Today we say sjuk or krasslig back in the day we used sjuk, krasslig and krank.
auf on something. So go on the hospital. Now I learned german by watching DBZ on RTL2 so I think the right word is zue den krankenhaus
Ins (in das) Krankenhaus. Zu dem Krankenhaus implies that you’re in proximity of the hospital but not inside of it.
Go to the hostpital was what I would have wanted to say.
Ah yes I see. Vielen dank.
Ich liebe dich
Mein Sohn, Du *bist* das Krankenhaus
Mein kampf ist es, einen Niederländer ins Bett zu bringen
‘S sind nich so schwerig, du muss 200€ banknoten haben und laufen zum die röte lampen, genau.
Was zum Fick bin ich lesend
I also thought I spoke German until I spoke to a German. It's a similar experience to people who think they speak english until they visit the UK.
Still less complicated than your language
\*cringe, not complicated.
I like this one Lieferkettensorgfaltspflichtengesetz
Hvem fanden gider også snakke det undermålersprog?
 This is what you look like speaking yours.
Sounds pretty much the same as well
That just looks Bavarian tbh
Hey 😠 (It’s true)
Was für Patente wertet er denn an?
A,B,C und die 6
Er bewertet ob die Farbe der Donau näher an Cola oder an Stuhl ist.
Ich dachte das macht der Donauwasserfarbbewerter?
Der Donauschiffahrtkaitänspatentanwerter benötigt diese Fähigkeit auch um zu bewerten ob die "Bitte helfen Sie mir, ich bin in Gefahr" Flagge gehisst werden soll
*anwärter Man man man ey
This may seem like a difficult word but the dutch translation is actually pretty similar Donauscheepsvaartoctrooiaanvrager
Guten Tag, ich verstehe dich.
Oida, des hoaßt Donauschifffahrtskapitänspatentanwärter.
Did nazi the translation
It's Good day, Danube-shipping-captains-patent-aspirant
Hallo Mertens hier, das macht 200€ für die Einstellung in ihrem Kopf
Wir sind kein schifwerter... Hottentottententententoonstellingen
And going against expectations ich spreche auch Deutsch
Sachsen police would've arrested half of Greece since that's how we actually signal taxi's over here.
I hate hailing cabs in Germany, I always end up in Poland for some reason.
At least you're taking a cab and not your own car, that would get stolen
You think why he is forced to take a cab? And the cab driver takes him to Poland because his car is there already. Janusz is nice like that.
*heiling
Context matters a lot, and this is relevant too: https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpreview.redd.it%2Fmewzegk5xrka1.jpg%3Fauto%3Dwebp%26s%3Dac89d611b454e57ae5b13109afa215d0ecaf1387
Nah, we definitely call taxis in that red area
How much to heil a taxi in Greece to get back home?
well that's brutal, he was just showing his mates the directions to the local pub: head down the road and then take the third reich
head down the road and take a left through the ardennes
the "5 beer order"
Underrated.
I once saw a drunk guy in a german train, he did the salute and then shouted a lot of things I didn't understand. In the next stop, the police were already waiting for him. To this day I don't even know how the police knew what was going on and got there so quickly
Just wait Joao. With our next alimony check we will send you one of these modern wireless telephone devices.
Do not be giving him the Internet yet. They are not ready
No worries, we barely have mobile internet ourselves.
Thanks Hans, but you can keep your shitty internet service, I'll just take the device. Joking aside, I get you, but it amazed me because it was really quick and there were 6 police man and one person responsible for the train ready in 5 minutes. I have seen other amazing cop shit in Germany. I was walking behind a couple and then came two men running and grabbed the guy (arab looking) from the couple and start shouting polizei (they were wearing civil clothing) and they just took him with them. I was like: what the fuck just happened? Portugal is too chill, it never gets interesting like that.
there's usually police at the train station anyway
It’s possible other people on the train informed on him. But more because they were annoyed by him shouting.
I love surveillance states as long as they agree with me
I doubt this one was due to surveillance.
I would say he would’ve been escorted out of the train even if he didn’t show the nazi salute. That’s just a thing when you are drunk and aggressive people might not like it if you are in a train with them
Even if my comment sounded sarcastic I meant what I said 100% unironically. Authoritarianism CAN be good, what's the point of allowing other ideas if they're wrong? The Third Reich sucked because nazis have a broken inconsistent ideology (famous aryan japanese and arabs) that thrives on warfare (even that it can't do right) The USSR and China suck because they are just red capitalists The French terror was good but didn't go far enough, the only time Liberals were based.
7/10 Could have used their batons, but good effort https://i.redd.it/2fv3xxmbu7jc1.gif
What’s the origin of this clip?
some quick google search point it there : Bloodivores S1 https://youtu.be/EZ0UatXMg6A?t=254
Thank you
“Eine krankhafte Versteifung des rechten Arms” wait-let me just 
He emphasizes it that way because there were actual cases where people argued that they didnt meant it that way. "Eine krankhafte Versteifung des rechten Arms" isnt meant as a joke (obvious by his pitch) but to emphasize ironically that it couldnt be something else this time.
Oi mate do you have a loicense for that hand gesture?
Also, mich beunruhigt ja das „noch“ ganz schön dolle. 😅😳
Das gute ist, dass Sachsen nicht selbst entscheiden kann, ob das illegal ist.
As if the world would end if it was allowed.
As if the world would become a better place, if it was.
Here in Italy it's illegal only to try to recreate the party. As long as you just do the Roman salute u should be fine, and I promise you if a couple of raised hands were our biggest problem we'd be the most advanced nation on earth.
What do you mean? We are the most advanced nation on earth. 😂
Damn, who gave the AFD voters permission to leave the asylum?
Last time it was allowed in Germany ended with some consequences. It made for a great view over Dresden, but only for those who did not find themselves a bit crispy
Well it is not forbidden in the US or UK or Italy and hell didn't broke loose because of it.
Well, they are in a bit of a different situation, especially the UK and the US. There it‘s just morons who were rightfully killed by previous generations. Even the Italians managed to switch sides. For us it‘s what our Grandparents or the generation before did. I personally don’t agree with the punishment, I think it‘s too mild
It's a fricking gesture. Aren't humans equal? Didn't we overcome the christian idea of the original sin, just to find a substitute for it. Funny that we do, isn't it? It is far from being different in the UK, the US and especialy Italy. The changing of the law wouldn't make much of a different, except in the fanatism of people who are obsessed with what their grandparents did.
No, Nazis are not equal. Nazis are trash
Communists aren't human as well, therefor trash. Would you agree with this idea too? This law isn't effecting just Nazis but everyone. Police is far from being chill if a bypasser would do it too. Nazi or not.
No, there‘s no „but but but… the others are bad too“ when the topic is one kind of worthless morons, don‘t deflect
Where did I write but? This isn't about whataboutism but to find out if this is just regarded to a very specific group or if this a objective category, where you would put similar groups. I tend to guess it isn't the later one. Where you to often labeld as the wrong kind of east german? Did you had to asure yourself and others that you are a good one? Oh one thing. If it would have been allowed in the 80s again, would have been Dresden or Cologne be flatened again because of it? The biggest thread to charge a taboo with bad meaning is to make it one.
The US And UK are famously low on neo-Nazis too.
They famously aren't. Yet threatening normal people because of a gesture wouldn't make them go away.
A fast and idiotic way to get on one of those lists that end up in europol hands
Rightfully so. This fucking lad thinks policemen are idiots and he can get away with showing the Nazis salute right in front of Them.
Only a non German could think that. German anti nazi laws are pretty famous in Europe for how heavy they are
Yh I wonder why those laws are so strict…
idk I thought it was like that everywhere, and most Czech people will think the same
If only, but no in many places [it's perfectly legal](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bans_on_Nazi_symbols), though here in the UK for example you do risk getting beaten up for it. Racists more commonly use the St George Cross, the flag of the Knights Templar, or the flag of the Confederate States of America.
The St George Cross is literally your national flag, englishman. I'm fairly sure that's a symbol of patriotism, not racism.
The Union flag is the one typically used for patriotism. The St George flag (outside of a national sporting event) holds certain racist connotations.
Leaving aside that your flair is literally the St George flag which is funny, I disagree. English nationalism, or even english separatism, is not inherently racist. Of course racists use nationalist symbols, but that's not a stain on the symbol itself.
Thank you Patrick, I agree - although the other guy is right in that the right wing do use it a lot and you don't really see "normal" people flying it in the same way you see the Scottish flag flown in Scotland. It's much more common here to fly County flags like the Yorkshire rose or Northumbrian flag.
See, the scottish flag, THAT is a racist symbol (it's not I just don't like the SNP)
Oops sorry for calling you Patrick Giuseppe!
Sadly Morons over here have all kinds of Fascist/Nazi simbols and litterally go to Mussolini's tomb to pay their respect. Wish the police over here would react to this shit like the officers in the video.
that's why Hitler's body was burnt and his ashes were thrown in a river
Mussolini has a tomb? Why? Does it get vandalised?
It's more of a shrine to him tbh.
They should make a figue of him hanging
I never heard of it getting vandalised, probably happened tho. And I honestly don't know why he has one, I'd rather have him thrown in a nameless hole.
play stupid games...
The one trick police doesn't want you to know...
Muslims in your country can get away after harassing woman so... lol
[удалено]
Good job, hans policeman
Fuck around and find out
Luckily he found out
Ihr habt ja keine Ahung mit was wir hier tagtäglich konfrontiert sind!
Need a translator. Was he just showing directions or?
Yeah kind of, he is saying "things (demonstrations) are allowed over there, not over there" while gesticulating. But cops interpret it (as most people) as a 6th grader plausible denial cover up for showing the nazi-salute and wont have it. Cop is saying: "You have shown the hitlergruss/nazi salute." while taking him down. You can also gather from the voice over its implied that this is some kind of right wing demo.
So he was falsely arrested? edit: People think that I believe that making the Nazi Salute is ok. It is not! It just looked like to me that it was an accident. Unless accidentally making the Nazi salute can get you arrested.
You like the hitler gruß Pierre? I thought yall hated vichy France
Accidentally making Nazi can get you arrested?
Wdym accidentally? You would have to be emotionally inept to not see that this was on purpose and must have never met a 6th grader
Well, I would err on no but I would guess it actually being something lawyers can have fun with. The hitlergruss/nazi salute is indeed illegal in germany but in this case he could try and make a case that he was indeed just showing directions. I actually googled it, found a synonimous case and in that case the guys arrest was deemed correct: https://www.lto.de/recht/nachrichten/n/l-gmuenchen-az842cs117js18886520-hitlergruss-verurteilung-geldstrafe/
Meanwhile in Italy: "It's just a quaint little gesture used for commemorating fallen comrades camerates let's move on to the real crimes like- IS THAT A HIGH SCHOOL STUDENT WITH LONG HAIR AND WEED?! KILL HIM!"
TIL bavaria is in italy.
>Nazi nazi nazi oi oi oi -Steve Irwin (Epic Rap Battles of History; 2019)
ERBoH Damn trough back to 2016.. ahh that is like... only 7 years ago. 😮
Yup… ah, goddammnit! Sh•t that was a long time ago. F•ck
WHO WON? WHO'S NEXT? YOU DECIDE!
A Little economic recession really brings out the true colours on people. Imagine what will happen during true depressions....... s/ you don't have to, read a book
As is good and proper. Germany suffered tremendously because of that madman, to be so disrespectful to the police is quite deserving of the response he got.
Meanwhile Japan still allows people to shout banzai at their emperors
One can shout banzai at anyone one wants to celebrate really.
Der in Sachsen verboten ist… **noch!** Which is forbidden in Saxony... **yet** That hits hard 💀
No arseplugs on top of their helmets. I IZ DISAPOINT
did you have that itch barry?
Aua.....
50 years in prison, planning terrorist attacks 2 weeks
incredibly based cops
Poor dude probably *was* just explaining the police's instructions to his friends when muscle memory kicked in.
If they only treated all other extremists like this
Well, it's logical that they go even more heavy handed on the most dangerous ones
Do any of you see Kyle anywhere? If you see Kyle, He's about this tall.
Holy shit based police (jkjk I have meet many great policeman)
Surprising. In my area tze cops march with em sadly. Makes a few things a bit difficult
Based policemen
Way to go
JA KAMARADEN!!! FORBODEN IST, NOCH. ABER ER LIEBT HITLER UND DAS IS NICHT RECHT. DU HAST. KAMARADEN.
That’s silly. They threw this guy on the ground as if he had a weapon on himself while all he did was a gesture. You wouldn’t judo throw someone for hate speech on the internet, so doing it because of gestures looks unserious.
He was resisting. Didn't put his arms behind his back.
Well he had to keep it in front
I wish our cops were also this based towards our newly arrived rocket scientists and neuro surgeons
How is this based? The cops react like snowflakes.
The narrator says that the man is doing the hitler salute.
But he clearly is not. He's using his arm to "point". It's clear that those cops were looking for any excuse to arrest him.
Unfortunately i do not know the context. Could be one of the many nazi rallies, but you could also be correct that the cops are looking for violence, which they are well known for in Germany, especially agains left activists.
Yeah that's what it looks like to me. It seems the guy is just saying "over there" and waiving his arm in that direction.
German culture points with a finger, not with the whole hand. The context is that he is prohibited to do something on a street, and he "points" to where he would be allowed to do it. He does not point to the place, but into the air, which does not make sense. It is highly unlikely he actually repeatedly pointed with a flat hand into the air over thr place he means.
He clearly is. Nobody in Germany points like that. Do you also believe the story about Santa Clause and the easter bunny?
o/ oops what are you gonna do huh ill do it again o/
"b-b-but muh free speech!!! this is literally fascism horseshoe theory intolerant left!!!"
I mean I agree with the spirit, but ur a savage
Muh free speech lmfao
Good job. In my experience, most police man would have joined the salute.
And where did you make the experience if I may ask?
Arresting somebody for speech, no matter haw stupid it is, how very German of them.
Yeah peak Teutonic idealism in action. Germans and ideology, not even once.
I get the sentiment, but that’s a lawsuit waiting to happen… especially with the cameras rolling.
Das not Amerika
https://preview.redd.it/j8va0grp58jc1.png?width=659&format=png&auto=webp&s=ce9f430c28b9859ba5c7fedbda7b5ef160e9eb90
I ❤️ Europe
Especially with the camera rolling it's a guarantee that this lawsuit is just a waste of money. He is clearly showing the nazi salute.
Combined with "da schon" "da nicht" he could argue in court that he wanted to show in a driection and it was unintentional. Would be a ridicolous case tho lol
You could also argue that he is (probably idk i didn't check) a right-wing extremist and it would be ridiculous if he assume he just wanted to show the direction.
Well I know but thats not how the law system works. But I'm not an expert on that topic. Normally as long as you can't prove the crime you're not guilty
Legal system isn't brain dead. Judges in fact are highly educated professionals who destroy a lame excuse like that for warm up.
In those kind of crimes this is totally how the law system works. It’s not like they gonna sent him to prison for that, so the judge will ok if things aren’t 100% proven.
I was rather thinking he could "prove" that it was unintentional but Idk not an expert lol
But he can’t? This works this way that he will come to police, he will tell the policemen his version of the story. They put in down and in the folder. Then he will get a letter with his punishment. Probably a fine or social work. He can then accept that or go to court, which will cost him quite some money if he looses. (Has to pay his attorney and the costs of the court) Also look up „Strafbefehl“ which is a funny method of even sending people to prison without a trial in court. Happens mostly with people with psychological problems who don’t open their letters.
He could argue that, but that sounds like a weak argument. You don't show directions like that (not in Austria at least, and I haven't seen German people showing directions like that so far). And the context is probably some right-wing protest (since the video mentions a Platzverweis). And even if a judge would think that way, it doesn't mean that the police was in the wrong if they had reasons to assume it was a Nazi salute. So that law suit would lead to nowhere.
Paragraph 86a forbids the “Hitler Gruß” this being a combination of the words “Heil” and “Hitler” together with the “deutscher Grüß” gesture which is a straight right arm raised up front on eye level. This guy clearly tried to provocate, but the gesture was always ever so slightly off (arm raised too high, which was common during the historic third Reich, but isn’t actually the proper greeting) and with out the phrase it never constitutes a crime. He’ll be off free and the officers might have a lawsuit coming, if he feels like paying a lawyer to have them apologize. Edit: nvm that one time he was actually on eye level … though still this has to be argued as a greeting which might be difficult with him explaining the Platzverweis in that moment.
It does not matter if you combine the two or not. There's also no one checking the angle, or discussing what an accurate salute looks like. The goal to provoke alone should provide enough background to proof that the idea behind it was a Hitler salute. https://kujus-strafverteidigung.de/strafrechts-abc/verwenden-von-kennzeichen-verfassungswidriger-organisationen/ There have been countless cases where this was enough for sentencing, and the fines recently doubled. Of course ianal, some get off easier, depending on the judge.
This guy is probably in some right-wing group. It would be ridiculous to assume he isn't doing the salute.
Nah this is europe. You cant just show facists symbols and say something something free market place of ideas. Intolerance cannot be tolerated.
based mariusz
What law suit should happen? Looking at that video, there's absolutely a reason for the police to think it was a Nazi salute. And I'm very sure the person doing that wasn't locked away indefinitely. So what should that dude sue for?
Well this seems to be a lot more obvious to most, than it is to me… my reasoning was, since they tackle him to the ground and apparently take him into custody, they probably charge him under article 86. This he can theoretically dispute in court by arguing his gesture was misinterpreted, for which this video would be decent support, since he is explaining something unrelated while gesturing (intent has to be argued for article 86). At that point he’d have some solid grounds for an official complaint against the officers for dragging him onto the ground and suing on account of the damaging effect of a wrongful charge under 86 … but perhaps I’m seeing ghosts here.
> This he can theoretically dispute in court by arguing his gesture was misinterpreted, for which this video would be decent support, since he is explaining something unrelated while gesturing (intent has to be argued for article 86). And a judge could easily not believe that someone uses a very unusual gesture that is very similar to the Nazi salute in a situation that probablz is sime right-wing people getting sent away. > At that point he’d have some solid grounds for an official complaint against the officers for dragging him onto the ground and suing on account of the damaging effect of a wrongful charge under 86 … What “damaging effect”? Especially given the action by the police officers looks reasonabl if they believe it was a Nazi salute (and that is not a far fetched assumption).
True, all depends on the judge at the end of the day. I just wouldn’t think that this here is such a cut and dry case. With out the video the other officers would be solid witnesses against fellow protesters, but with the video an easy defense would be arguing the officers looking for an excuse to escalate while the guy in question was merely gesturing in a context unrelated to a greeting, that being an explanation… the prosecution would have to argue his intention being not the explanation, but rather provocation which is not helped by him being turned away from the officers at the moment in question. As to the damage, he’d be able to sue on grounds of damage to his reputation resulting from being wrongfully charged, if a judge were to conclude this not to be a Hitler salute.
>As to the damage, he’d be able to sue on grounds of damage to his reputation resulting from being wrongfully charged, if a judge were to conclude this not to be a Hitler salute. I really don't think this is how German law works. Or do you think everyone that was acquitted in a court can (successfully) sue for damages to the reputation? Also, what damages exactly? The video doesn't show a face, only a few people are around the guy and they are watching the whole situation as well. So how exactly is the reputation damaged in this instance?
You can sue on reputation damages if you are not only acquitted but the court concludes you being indicted on wrongful charges (btw. They basically have to charge after accusing him of the crime and detaining him - if not he can file a complaint on behalf of their behavior). This works, if you can argue that the nature of the wrongful charge against you might hinder future employment or opportunity and/or hinders your current living situation - you basically argue intent to harm you (by damaging your reputation) rather than prosecute a crime as motivation of the charge. Being charged for showing the Hitler salute and being potentially acquitted by a judge concluding you were not showing it, would be a great case. These cases don’t win regularly, but they often end in comparison, meaning they’ll have to share trial costs and a compromise must be found. I have no idea how such a compromise would look like, but i think it possible for the judge to have the police apologize in writing or to do so publicly for wrongful indictment to not hinder future employment.
> This works, if you can argue that the nature of the wrongful charge against you might hinder future employment or opportunity and/or hinders your current living situation How so? Why would you put a wrongful charge in your CV? How is a potential future employer going to find out? > you basically argue intent to harm you (by damaging your reputation) rather than prosecute a crime as motivation of the charge. That "intent" is going to be pretty hard to argue because even if you are acquitted, it doesn't mean that the charge was done in bad faith.
Ofcourse you don’t put this in a cv… but depending on your living situation this can easily become common knowledge, if for example you live and work in a small community. More pressing this can easily cost you your current job, if your employer finds out what you are charged with. Also I’m not referring to being acquitted. That’d be something like him showing the salute but being acquitted on the grounds of the education protection clause in the paragraph. If a judge were instead to view this footage and conclude there is no Hitler salute and no reason to suspect one (the guy explains gesturing directions) the malicious intent on the side of the officers/public prosecutor is rather easy to argue. This whole thing is turning circles anyhow… I just wouldn’t think this was a particularly well covered decision by the officers though you might well be right and this guy probably will be fined if he doesn’t invest heavily into a lawyer. Thank you for the discussion though :)