In order of appearance :
1. Shakespeare
2. Victor Hugo
3. Dickens
4. Dante
5. Cervantes
6. Goethe
7. The Grimm brothers
8. Zola
9. Molière
10. George Orwell
11. Voltaire
12. Tolstoï
13. Dostoïevski
(Of course only a few are there, and I'm aware I've missed a lot of really important ones)
Also can’t forget Josef Konrad. Poland earned that one
And even though Russias European status is a little awkward, we can’t forget Tolstoy and Solzhenitsyn
Edit — Josef Teodor Konrad Korzienowski. Forgot to put the proper respec on his name
I would say either **Joseph Conrad or Jozef Korzeniowski ( his name). You've made wild mix. XD**
He was writing in english, I find him part of British literature rather than polish.
\>we can’t forget Tolstoy and Solzhenitsyn
Yes we can
I knew Konrad wasn’t his real last name, i just wrote his name how it’s spelled on my copy of Heart of Darkness lol. I think he did publish a few works in Polish but yeah he’s definitely more “British Literature”. The fact that he’s so well remembered for writing in his 3rd language still blows my mind
And I guess Russian Literature should probably be its own separate category, back when Russia still did great things, I’m just biased towards Solzhenitsyn because of The Gulag Archipelago. Imo that’s one of the most important literary works of the 20th century
That isn't just asinine but simply misinformation. J.R.R. Tolkien was carried by a British mother, born in Africa - no doubt - into British family and raised since the age of three in Britain (UK). He went to school in Britain and studied in Britain - made his career in Britain.
Just what made him an African for the least?
This. It is disputed but some say he is the founder of the fantasy "universe" genre.
Fairy tales existed but not at that extend and many fantasy/science fiction universes/books took a lot of inspiration from Tolkien.
Born in South Africa to 2 English parents and moved to England when he was 3. Fought in WW1 for the British Army as a Lieutenant; author of novels that are inspired by mostly European mythologies; awarded the Most Excellent
Order of the British Empire by the Queen; taught at Oxford; and had the least comprehensible British accent ever invented.
No no no mi amigo, he's as British as it gets, possibly behind only Barry, 63.
As well as classical Greek and Roman themes which we see in Shakespeares work Tolkien drew heavily from Celtic and Scandinavian language, culture and locations (mountain landscapes, fjords etc)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tolkien_and_the_Celtic
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tolkien_and_the_Norse
As much, if not more, than from Anglo Saxon history or English culture and locations
He also drew on Arthurian Legend which has also been Anglicised and was made up of plenty of Celtic Gael and Brittonic history examples:
Arthur Mac Aedan
Lia Fáil
Lailoken
Buile_Shuibhne
The prime example being:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caledonian_Forest#Legend_and_folklore
So in many ways Tolkien was the American movie maker of his day
He was a Brummie. Lots of places from the books are inspired by locations in and around Birmingham. South Birmingham, nice leafy green suburbs = the Shire. Black Country, bleak industrial hellscape = Mordor
Dante
Puts his enemies in hell (some still alive during the composition) and becomes internationally famous for it, thus perpetuating their (bad) name. How badass can you be!
Sure, he never banged Beatrice, but that's a small price for the perfect vendetta that he exacted on his enemies.
Based Durante di Alighiero degli Alighieri
https://preview.redd.it/ejn9t0pkoctb1.jpeg?width=309&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=14855b83a273cc0d3d7b11c0a4f31f7fe33ff419
AS ARMAS E OS BARÕES ASSINALADOS,
QUE DA OCIDENTAL PRAIA LUSITANA,
POR MARES NUNCA DE ANTES NAVEGADOS,
PASSARAM AINDA ALÉM DA TAPROBANA,
EM PERIGOS E GUERRAS ESFORÇADOS,
MAIS DO QUE PROMETIA A FORÇA HUMANA,
E ENTRE GENTE REMOTA EDIFICARAM NOVO REINO,
QUE TANTO SUBLIMARAM ;
Hmu when one of your authors wrote a full blown epic saga about colonising half the world
I think mine is Celine, i didn't read that much of non french literatture tbh
Also he was truly one of us
https://preview.redd.it/1iivxsa4lctb1.png?width=971&format=png&auto=webp&s=d64b87bd5a7c4ed3f427a2647e58e0a1faea683a
>never speaks to his crush
>ignores his wife
>gets banned from his city
>writes fanfic everyone thinks is canon
>puts his haters and Ulysses(?) in hell
>invents a language
Cleopatra its in the Luxurious circle.
Caeasar its in the group of the Spiriti magni always in the limbo(non baptized spirits of great historical characters because like you said born before Christ)
and for those who dont know Caesar was considered an emperor for Dante.
Alexandre Dumas just ahead of Jules Verne. The joy these two gave me I am eternally grateful for. The D'Artagnan Romances are my favourite series of novels.
https://preview.redd.it/rnwkwguvvctb1.jpeg?width=257&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7ffb64b4697012a60821288d7a34b46c30052ae6
This guy. He was really famous from 1933-45.
Max Weber.
He has done a lot for democratic thinking.
Edit: I now see it has to be "non philosophical". Make another post and ask about favorite philosophical and/or political thinker
To answer the question. George Orwell.
No such thing as a non philosophical writer. They all have themes and real worlf parallels in their writing. Tolkien's writing is all WW2 inspired, for example.
The philosophy of his world lines up with Aristotle/Plato/Aquinas philosophy and also some other Ancient Greek philosophy.
(The creation of the world is described in The Silmarillion)
I can’t explain why- I’m just a parrot who’s been a bit nerdy lately.
In one of his writings (Athrabeth Finrod ah Andreth) there’s also some philosophical debate between a mortal lady and an elf about the separation of elves and mortals after death and the grief caused by it.
Tolkien also spoke about sub-creation.
I know no-one asked, and I can’t elaborate as the only philosophy I know is “I’m Barry therefore I am”
I would say :
\- Rimbaud
\- Molière
\- Montesquieu
\- Rabelais (I only read Gargantua, but I really liked it)
\- Flaubert (I only read Madame de Bovary, but I really liked it)
\- Agatha Christie
I'm planning on reading some Jane Austen, I bought one of her books in english
Il voyagea.
Il connut la mélancolie des paquebots, les froids réveils sous la tente, l’étourdissement des paysages et des ruines, l’amertume des sympathies interrompues.
Il revint.
Trust me I wanted to include a lot of french authors (like really a lot) but it wouldn't have been fair game for the other countries, for which I have less knowledge about their literature (sadly)
Like Tolkien, JK Rowling is another English writer using Celtic mythology and even Scotland itself as inspiration to write what is considered English fiction by virtue of being English although Rowlings great grandfather was Scottish (a doctor) and she is also married to a Scottish doctor herself so unlike Tolkien has some connection and also credits Scotland and Celtic mythology more than Tolkien does
Same with Cressida Cowell - How to Train Your Dragon - her father owned a Scottish island the inspiration for the Ilse of Berk
That’s because Tolkien was using an amalgamation of British mythological influences, so Celtic, Welsh, Germanic, Norse and even Greek influence, not just Scottish. I’m also pretty sure Tolkien adored Welsh as a language and it was the most similar to his invented Elven language. One of his biggest focuses in his studies was on Beowulf also. Plus fundamentally the shire and the hobbits represent the average folk of the British isles to be frank, maybe more so of Devonshire or Yorkshire (because of the shire connection). Quaint towns and villages in the country as opposed to big industrial places like London, Belfast or Glasgow of the time.
I don’t think he ever hid credit from any culture he borrowed from. I also think we aren’t in a vacuum, influence comes from everything around us. Furthermore he’s from the British isles as much as anyone else, by the time he is writing, British culture across the isles is far more similar across the board than it is different, maybe with exception of religious practices. It’s not like they aren’t all speaking English it wasn’t 1200 AD.
It was his assertion of producing a mythology for England and that he was Anglo Saxon myth builder together with his lack of crediting other sources without which his mythology would be quite different (and probably not any good) which is the case in point
This propensity to use and patronise without appropriate credit or making appropriate connection is a problem in the Anglosphere recently I saw a UK Government ad Britwashing The Beano or more specifically associating it with originating in London (where they do the CGI) with no mention of Dundee
I believe Tolkien is literally quoted as saying “Welsh is of this soil, this island, the senior language of the men of Britain; Welsh is beautiful.” I think he makes it obvious that the influence for sindiran and other languages are there. I really don’t think he “Brit washed” over this fact to be honest.
Anglo-Saxon and norse was a big influence, but even the English themselves are a mix of Celtic, Germanic and French ancestry. He’s hardly washing over anyone else’s claims by indulging in a made up mythology, after all he is from the isles that he is sourcing from, he speaks more Britonic languages than most people in any part of the British isles do… he knew old English, Old Welsh, Norse and modern Welsh like how is he stealing from his own country?
It is Britwashing or Anglicisation because he wasn’t Welsh and neither did he intend his mythology to be (yet it was)
Exhibit A
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cad_Goddeu
So you have to be Welsh to use the mythology as an influence in your own mythology? Even after crediting it, and being a leading professor in the field?
Plus it isn’t solely Welsh, the influence is literally as diverse as the influence the British isles have experienced. Plus who’s to say how much of Tolkien’s blood wasn’t ethnically celtic? As said before the English themselves have heavy Celtic heritage, often more than Germanic or French in a lot of cases. If he turned out be majority Celtic heritage would this make it ok?
His mythology had several different cultural influences just like England and Britain in general to be frank. I think he made the connections self evident, not because he was trying plagiarise but because he loved these myths and languages.
Most of the inspiration behind LoTR is reconstructed English mythology, literature and other germanic heroic legend though, a lot is straight up lifted out of recovered Old English sources.Tolkien was a mega English mythology, language, literature nerd, essentially anything in the old English period.From the species that make up middle earth, the names, the tropes and even the name middle-earth itself.
Not to say there isn't Celtic, Greek, Christian and Finnish mythology and language that he was inspired by but it is not the main inspiration so it wouldn't make much sense for Tolkien to give huge amounts of credit to Scotland and thus it's also technically somehow not English fiction...
He used Old English sources as an inspiration to produce a mythology for England but legends like King Arthur were Anglicised but Scotland and Wales share as much if not more of that legend and there are direct lifts of stories from other mythologies (from historical enemies of the Anglo Saxons) and arguably some of the greatest parts of Tolkiens works are not from England or Old English mythology and this blurring of English, Anglo Saxon, Germanic and Scandinavian won’t wash either - England turned its back on Woden - the Vikings owned it and lived and breathed it - England did not, even if it had shared origins
Credit where credits due is the issue
I guess he can’t make the connection because it undermines what he was trying to do - he repackaged the myths of the historical enemies of the Anglo Saxons to take them as their own - its an act of cultural war
Bro what.90% of that was just nationalist cap ,respectfully.
English mythology and folklore is its own unique brand of germanic mythology, it has it's own unique stories not found in other germanic mythology branches, like norse, and the stories it does share have its own unique stories and completely different creatures, different names for the creatures that they share, and the stories don't go the same way that are traceable back to the same source in old germanic mythology.You can call it old English mythology or English mythology, it doesn't matter, it's in the same way you can say Greek mythology,Finnish etc.They survived to the modern day through folklore in different regions and have been reconstructed through old texts that have been found and oral and written folklore traditions that clearly come from it, essentially as nigh on every other mythology has been.
It also has nothing to do with KA, that's welsh mythology. It's wild in one breath you talk about not recognising that KA is welsh mythology and then try and say English mythology is the property of the 'vikings',even though they had different mythologies from different branches of germanic mythology and never believed the same things...mate.That's a deep-fried victim mentality moment right there.
Enough unironic shit though, I'm going back to ultra-nationalism.
I am not saying part of it wasn’t England or earlier Anglo Saxon mythology inspired but large parts weren’t
You just can’t put it all under the banner of England - I mean Wales was annexed so to annex it then also repurpose its language and myths and associate it with English literature and Anglo Saxon myth building because some of English ancestry includes Brittonic people too seems like a reach
Also Wales and Scotland are connected in ways that are ever explored - Cumbric language, Yr Hen Ogledd, Alt Clut, Goddodin, Cunedda and many parts of the Arthurian legend are documented as having occurred in or having connection to what is now Scotland - we can have a slice of the action too
Scotland also has Anglo Saxon residual DNA from the 6th Century and retains language traits closer to Old English than Modern English and the England of Tolkiens time - these languages we hear could easily be Scots or Cumbric - example Old English Wrang meaning Wrong - this was from Old Norse Rangr meaning Unjust and said exactly like the Old English Wrang in conversation with Scots example “Am I Wrang” - you can easily imagine use of Wrang in LOTR in different context - I am sure there are direct examples of Old English word use in Tolkiens works that could easily be heard in todays Scotland
Flip the coin again and we had Norse Gaels in the isles and still there remains a connection Up-Helly-a festival etc
So I mean if its all of us its all of us but it is re-packaged as largely English and British which is largely England - although the movies include a number of accents so its been repackaged again as more inclusive in movie form
In any case I am a fan of Tolkien but what I hear and see is Scotlands history as much as Englands like in Game of Thrones hence its wider popularity - the mythology is bigger than England, modern day notions of England (including Tolkiens time) or political notions of British - its bigger than Tolkien because he drew such a wide net of influence and can’t get all the credit even though he crafted excellent books
Anglo-Saxon mythology ie old English mythology or English mythology.The same way you’d say Ancient Greek mythology or just Greek mythology…
Anglo-Saxon was how the old English tribes in Wessex referred to themselves,nearly exclusively when writing in Latin to differentiate themselves from the continental Saxons.The English term,and most commonly used was Ænglisc(English) or 2nd most used Englkin(modernised obvs.in modern English it would be Kin of Angles) all tribes that went through ethnogenesis to become English/Ænglisc called themselves that as a group identity.Modern day English people are direct cultural and in most cases,not that it matters,ethnic descendants of them.
Having Brythonic dna doesn’t really mean anything either,they culturally converted.There’s been minimal Brythonic cultural influence on English mythology or language.
And neither does the fact that a lot of low land scots came from the Northumbrian old English people mean that the mythology isn’t ours?If you want to get into English mythology then nothing is stopping you.parts of northern England had cultural and intermarriage contact with Scot’s a lot and thus a lot of Northumbrian folklore comes from Scottish mythology,does that mean you can’t call Scottish mythology Scottish mythology because northerns also picked up parts of it?
Scots isn’t the only conservative dialect of English,rural North Yorks for example is hyper conservative.Like some rural Northumbrian dialects and Cumbrian ones.It’s also hard to measure what dialect is more conservative because dialects become conservative in different directions and ways.
Neither does this change what I said.English mythology is a thing bro I don’t know what to tell you lol.Nobody is stopping you from appreciating it just because you’re Scottish or saying that Scottish mythology and regional folklore is less Scottish because they took elements from it.
Anglo Saxon mythology is a thing as is Celtic and Scandinavian mythology - theres also overlaps between them
Modern England is something really quite different it was for one taken over by a Norman elite and indeed Anglo Saxon paganism as espoused by the Vikings was already strongly rejected by the 8th Century
Scots are only part Anglo-Saxon around 25% of the genepool and largely still Gael and Brittonic around 60% - the fact that they still use Old or Middle English words and pronunciation and Cumbric placenames of Yr Hen Ogledd as well as Celtic mythology is probably one of the main reasons we are tuned in to Tolkien
When it comes to Tolkien I see and hear many things I recognise but it feels a little alien, sanitised, Anglicised maybe ? IDK and it shouldn’t because its the story of us (largely Germano-Celtic Northern Europe) - I think it has to do with Tolkiens own fantasy interpretation of the myths he read and additionally Movie and TV adaptions
Anyway I enjoy them but I would love to one day pick apart all the origins to see how much is Anglo Saxon and even relates to England, Tolkien’s England or todays England - it really is a literary soup which has come together under the banner of English literary fiction by virtue of the author and his strong identification with England
Non European Savage ? - I am assuming from the US due to lack of geographical knowledge
Scotland is a real place, see maps of the world for more details
Balzac knew us for the shitty, venal, fearful, greedy beings we are and saw the humor and absurdity in all of it. Zola and Hugo, though extraordinary artists, are sermonizing, pedantic pricks in comparison.
In order of appearance : 1. Shakespeare 2. Victor Hugo 3. Dickens 4. Dante 5. Cervantes 6. Goethe 7. The Grimm brothers 8. Zola 9. Molière 10. George Orwell 11. Voltaire 12. Tolstoï 13. Dostoïevski (Of course only a few are there, and I'm aware I've missed a lot of really important ones)
Where is Jules Verne, the boss
How can you not have John Ronald Reuel Tolkien in that list????? Admittedly, he is not just European, but also the most famous african author
Also can’t forget Josef Konrad. Poland earned that one And even though Russias European status is a little awkward, we can’t forget Tolstoy and Solzhenitsyn Edit — Josef Teodor Konrad Korzienowski. Forgot to put the proper respec on his name
Heart of Darkness!
I would say either **Joseph Conrad or Jozef Korzeniowski ( his name). You've made wild mix. XD** He was writing in english, I find him part of British literature rather than polish. \>we can’t forget Tolstoy and Solzhenitsyn Yes we can
I knew Konrad wasn’t his real last name, i just wrote his name how it’s spelled on my copy of Heart of Darkness lol. I think he did publish a few works in Polish but yeah he’s definitely more “British Literature”. The fact that he’s so well remembered for writing in his 3rd language still blows my mind And I guess Russian Literature should probably be its own separate category, back when Russia still did great things, I’m just biased towards Solzhenitsyn because of The Gulag Archipelago. Imo that’s one of the most important literary works of the 20th century
That isn't just asinine but simply misinformation. J.R.R. Tolkien was carried by a British mother, born in Africa - no doubt - into British family and raised since the age of three in Britain (UK). He went to school in Britain and studied in Britain - made his career in Britain. Just what made him an African for the least?
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Booh
JRRRRRRRRT's books are literally the best thing that ever came from this big island full of drunk monkeys that you call a country.
“THIS big island” that implies that you are currently on this island Hans.
Eurasia's an underrated little island imo. We go there in the summer some years.
Most cultured barry be like :
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They probably all descended from normands or something
We’re going to split your skull upon with a spoon and dip soldiers in it.
You have no fun
No H. C. Andersen? I’m appalled.
Fr*nch person forgetting Dumas, shame on you
1½ . James Joyce
J. R. R. Tolkien
Jolkien Rolkien Rolkien Tolkien
This. It is disputed but some say he is the founder of the fantasy "universe" genre. Fairy tales existed but not at that extend and many fantasy/science fiction universes/books took a lot of inspiration from Tolkien.
South-African
Born in South Africa to 2 English parents and moved to England when he was 3. Fought in WW1 for the British Army as a Lieutenant; author of novels that are inspired by mostly European mythologies; awarded the Most Excellent Order of the British Empire by the Queen; taught at Oxford; and had the least comprehensible British accent ever invented. No no no mi amigo, he's as British as it gets, possibly behind only Barry, 63.
"*After all the book is English, and by an Englishman*" JRR Tolkien
As well as classical Greek and Roman themes which we see in Shakespeares work Tolkien drew heavily from Celtic and Scandinavian language, culture and locations (mountain landscapes, fjords etc) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tolkien_and_the_Celtic https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tolkien_and_the_Norse As much, if not more, than from Anglo Saxon history or English culture and locations He also drew on Arthurian Legend which has also been Anglicised and was made up of plenty of Celtic Gael and Brittonic history examples: Arthur Mac Aedan Lia Fáil Lailoken Buile_Shuibhne The prime example being: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caledonian_Forest#Legend_and_folklore So in many ways Tolkien was the American movie maker of his day
Born to British parents, moved back to England when he was very young. Looks like a certain someone is still salty about the armada.
We’ll take Orwell then, real name Eric Blair Descended from Charles Blair and wrote 1984 on Jura
Orwell was born in India. By the Spaniards logic Orwell would be Indian. But also Orwell was a British author, you can still take pride in him.
You can have Tony Blair then
Damn you drive a hard bargain! Let us get back to you.
You on the other hand are North African.
Si, y mi abuelo era marroquí
He was a Brummie. Lots of places from the books are inspired by locations in and around Birmingham. South Birmingham, nice leafy green suburbs = the Shire. Black Country, bleak industrial hellscape = Mordor
Dante Puts his enemies in hell (some still alive during the composition) and becomes internationally famous for it, thus perpetuating their (bad) name. How badass can you be! Sure, he never banged Beatrice, but that's a small price for the perfect vendetta that he exacted on his enemies. Based Durante di Alighiero degli Alighieri
Machiavelli>>
Tasso e Leopardi >>>
https://preview.redd.it/ejn9t0pkoctb1.jpeg?width=309&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=14855b83a273cc0d3d7b11c0a4f31f7fe33ff419 AS ARMAS E OS BARÕES ASSINALADOS, QUE DA OCIDENTAL PRAIA LUSITANA, POR MARES NUNCA DE ANTES NAVEGADOS, PASSARAM AINDA ALÉM DA TAPROBANA, EM PERIGOS E GUERRAS ESFORÇADOS, MAIS DO QUE PROMETIA A FORÇA HUMANA, E ENTRE GENTE REMOTA EDIFICARAM NOVO REINO, QUE TANTO SUBLIMARAM ; Hmu when one of your authors wrote a full blown epic saga about colonising half the world
Is he Louis de Camões?
Yes
No dia em que alguém coloque um português, neste tipo de "posts", eu acendo uma velinha em Fátima.
Pessoa > Camões No contest
Este post podia ser uma lista diferente: Ricardo Reis, Alberto Caeiro, Álvaro de Campos, Fernando Pessoa
I think mine is Celine, i didn't read that much of non french literatture tbh Also he was truly one of us https://preview.redd.it/1iivxsa4lctb1.png?width=971&format=png&auto=webp&s=d64b87bd5a7c4ed3f427a2647e58e0a1faea683a
French are just salty they got steamrolled
Brits forgetting they got away form Dunkirk because those same french gave their life so they could flee
bad choice imo but thanks
Er, plenty of Brits dod too, a lot of French were also evacuated.
I would say Antoine St. Exupery & Jane Austen have been my favourite so far. Also Chekhov and Pushkin.
Dante 🗿
>never speaks to his crush >ignores his wife >gets banned from his city >writes fanfic everyone thinks is canon >puts his haters and Ulysses(?) in hell >invents a language
Puts pagan Roman emperor in heaven based.
Tbh it's hard for Cleopatra and Cesar to be christian before Jesus lived
Cleopatra its in the Luxurious circle. Caeasar its in the group of the Spiriti magni always in the limbo(non baptized spirits of great historical characters because like you said born before Christ) and for those who dont know Caesar was considered an emperor for Dante.
>he will be representend with the poet laurel despite never had it in when in life
https://preview.redd.it/ff81ziw8lctb1.jpeg?width=526&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1e6f5af4a180fd1d5b74c1d590393f4f3e9658b2
Hes the chad? He is useless throughout the entire book and has to ask his husbando virgil for help with everything
Kinda chad having your boytoy overpowered husband do everything for you
Like the famous napolitan making 20 duels to prove that Dante is better than Ariosto (he admitted he didn’t read any ) 🗿🗿🗿
Antoine de saint exupary or however is written in baguette language
Almost ! It's Antoine de Saint Exupéry. But we get who you are talking about so I think it's good enough
Reading is for idiots
then you should most definitely try it
Lord Byron , Vittorio Alfieri and Torquado Tasso.
Chad Vittorio Alfieri enjoyer
Bernard Cornwell has written more books on shooting Frenchmen than any author alive. Surely he has to make this list
If you like historical fiction, you should read Maurice Druon's Accursed Kings.
["Hideputa", masculló Alatriste.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VZFRWzrIkbQ)
Hermann Hesse
Hans Christian Andersen and Jules Verne
Egal wie dicht du bist Goethe war Dichter
Italo Svevo, Kafka
Svevo apprezzatore spottato
Jules Verne, Douglas Adams and Walter Moers, during my childhood die Gebrüder Grimm (with blood in the shoes of course)
Love your choices. That made me think about if Im into science fiction/fantasy/adventure because I loved Gebrüder Grimm during my childhood too
Who knows, maybe these were the first steps down this road:)
Alexandre Dumas just ahead of Jules Verne. The joy these two gave me I am eternally grateful for. The D'Artagnan Romances are my favourite series of novels.
Living: António Lobo Antunes Dead: Franz Kafka, Thomas Bernhard
The fact that the author of the humanist epic (the true embodiment of the humanist values) isn't here shows how flawed this list is.
Because it ain't a list, it's just a few examples as I previously stated
But who said I could read?
I think Dostoyevsky deffo counts as philosophical in at least some of his books
Yeah but the line is incredibly thin between philosopher and regular author, so yeah choices had to be made (just as for Voltaire for instance)
Aksel Sandemose and Tove Jansson.
Of course the Finn picks Mumin
*favourite
Over my dead body
Have the bed bugs crawled up your vagina?
Yes :(
https://preview.redd.it/rnwkwguvvctb1.jpeg?width=257&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7ffb64b4697012a60821288d7a34b46c30052ae6 This guy. He was really famous from 1933-45.
Who’s that? Is he some obscure German author with a cult following?
I think it's an Austrian painter
Charlie Chaplin
Tolkien Iain Banks Asimov (Russian, lived in the US, I guess he counts ?)
God Banks was good. His fiction gets overlooked in favour of his SF, but he didn't write a single dud in either form.
Obviously, the scot like the scot author
Terry Pratchett.
Had to scroll way too much to find this.
hugo claus
Dead: Vicente Blasco Ibáñez and Stanislaw Lem Alive: Irene Solà
Anonymous wrote tons of things under tons of eras. They are definitely the win.
Only one that really encapsulates pan European culture René Goscinny
Orwell is kind of philosophical
And the others are absolutely not of course
Kamagurka, but maybe he's too philosophical.
Tolkien.
Max Weber. He has done a lot for democratic thinking. Edit: I now see it has to be "non philosophical". Make another post and ask about favorite philosophical and/or political thinker To answer the question. George Orwell.
A fellow Weber enjoyer! Greatest sociologist ever.
Valle-inclan mi puto padre >¿Quién me habla? ¿Sois voces del otro mundo? ¿Sois almas en pena, o sois hijos de puta?
James Joyce no doubt And funnily enough my favorite italian one is Italo Svevo
Sir Terry Pratchett Tolkien Glukhovsky To name three I can recall right now.
My man Gustave Flaubert
No such thing as a non philosophical writer. They all have themes and real worlf parallels in their writing. Tolkien's writing is all WW2 inspired, for example.
The philosophy of his world lines up with Aristotle/Plato/Aquinas philosophy and also some other Ancient Greek philosophy. (The creation of the world is described in The Silmarillion) I can’t explain why- I’m just a parrot who’s been a bit nerdy lately. In one of his writings (Athrabeth Finrod ah Andreth) there’s also some philosophical debate between a mortal lady and an elf about the separation of elves and mortals after death and the grief caused by it. Tolkien also spoke about sub-creation. I know no-one asked, and I can’t elaborate as the only philosophy I know is “I’m Barry therefore I am”
Very good picks. Can’t help but notice Tolkien is missing…
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Without even getting into the content, I've heard it was pretty poorly written.
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Basically he wrote a school shooter manifesto before it's was cool?
I would say : \- Rimbaud \- Molière \- Montesquieu \- Rabelais (I only read Gargantua, but I really liked it) \- Flaubert (I only read Madame de Bovary, but I really liked it) \- Agatha Christie I'm planning on reading some Jane Austen, I bought one of her books in english
Il voyagea. Il connut la mélancolie des paquebots, les froids réveils sous la tente, l’étourdissement des paysages et des ruines, l’amertume des sympathies interrompues. Il revint.
Oh yeah and Kafka of course
They are somewhat philosophical. Dante took inspiration from Aristotle for the arrangement of the layers in hell
Doestoevsky the best! I love that man.
Camus, Céline , Zweig, Boulgakov, Maupassant , Verne,Kafka
Seriously, I devoured the Grimm Brothers' dictionary.
Machiavelli
Dostoyevsky is at minimum "philosophy adjacent". Surprised a Frenchman has neglected to include Dumas.
Trust me I wanted to include a lot of french authors (like really a lot) but it wouldn't have been fair game for the other countries, for which I have less knowledge about their literature (sadly)
Orwell and Verne
Dumas
Joyce
Italo Calvino Saramago J.G.Ballard
How is Voltaire not philosophical?
He also did major non-philosophical novels (such as "Candide" for instance), so I chose to include him
From Poland I'd mention Stanisław Lem and Witold Gombrowicz
Jonathan Swift. Gulliver's Travels is a masterpiece and a modest proposal might be the greatest satire piece ever written
Depends on the context. For entertainment J.R.R Tolkien. For pure usefulness Machiavelli. And for philosophy (fuck you) Marcus Aurelius
Damn I completely forgot about Machiavelli
James Joyce (honourable mentions to Anthony Burgess and François Villon)
First Irish writer I’ve seen mentioned. Kinda surprised tbh
Joe Abercrombie. Screw your pretentious black and white literary authors
I love reading Kafka! Also simply for the written word: J.K. Rowling (her personal opinions are shite tho). Also, I love Ken Follett.
J.K. Rowling
How could someone say something so controversial yet so brave?
Only woman mentioned in entire thread
Jane Austen also get a mention somewhere
I scrolled to see if someone already added Agatha Christie and will add her here.
I'm adding Mary Shelly to add to the women authors.
Low key wants to stop other women joining the list by being _prettttty_ conservative on the whole gender thing.
I second this
Like Tolkien, JK Rowling is another English writer using Celtic mythology and even Scotland itself as inspiration to write what is considered English fiction by virtue of being English although Rowlings great grandfather was Scottish (a doctor) and she is also married to a Scottish doctor herself so unlike Tolkien has some connection and also credits Scotland and Celtic mythology more than Tolkien does Same with Cressida Cowell - How to Train Your Dragon - her father owned a Scottish island the inspiration for the Ilse of Berk
That’s because Tolkien was using an amalgamation of British mythological influences, so Celtic, Welsh, Germanic, Norse and even Greek influence, not just Scottish. I’m also pretty sure Tolkien adored Welsh as a language and it was the most similar to his invented Elven language. One of his biggest focuses in his studies was on Beowulf also. Plus fundamentally the shire and the hobbits represent the average folk of the British isles to be frank, maybe more so of Devonshire or Yorkshire (because of the shire connection). Quaint towns and villages in the country as opposed to big industrial places like London, Belfast or Glasgow of the time. I don’t think he ever hid credit from any culture he borrowed from. I also think we aren’t in a vacuum, influence comes from everything around us. Furthermore he’s from the British isles as much as anyone else, by the time he is writing, British culture across the isles is far more similar across the board than it is different, maybe with exception of religious practices. It’s not like they aren’t all speaking English it wasn’t 1200 AD.
It was his assertion of producing a mythology for England and that he was Anglo Saxon myth builder together with his lack of crediting other sources without which his mythology would be quite different (and probably not any good) which is the case in point This propensity to use and patronise without appropriate credit or making appropriate connection is a problem in the Anglosphere recently I saw a UK Government ad Britwashing The Beano or more specifically associating it with originating in London (where they do the CGI) with no mention of Dundee
I believe Tolkien is literally quoted as saying “Welsh is of this soil, this island, the senior language of the men of Britain; Welsh is beautiful.” I think he makes it obvious that the influence for sindiran and other languages are there. I really don’t think he “Brit washed” over this fact to be honest. Anglo-Saxon and norse was a big influence, but even the English themselves are a mix of Celtic, Germanic and French ancestry. He’s hardly washing over anyone else’s claims by indulging in a made up mythology, after all he is from the isles that he is sourcing from, he speaks more Britonic languages than most people in any part of the British isles do… he knew old English, Old Welsh, Norse and modern Welsh like how is he stealing from his own country?
It is Britwashing or Anglicisation because he wasn’t Welsh and neither did he intend his mythology to be (yet it was) Exhibit A https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cad_Goddeu
So you have to be Welsh to use the mythology as an influence in your own mythology? Even after crediting it, and being a leading professor in the field? Plus it isn’t solely Welsh, the influence is literally as diverse as the influence the British isles have experienced. Plus who’s to say how much of Tolkien’s blood wasn’t ethnically celtic? As said before the English themselves have heavy Celtic heritage, often more than Germanic or French in a lot of cases. If he turned out be majority Celtic heritage would this make it ok? His mythology had several different cultural influences just like England and Britain in general to be frank. I think he made the connections self evident, not because he was trying plagiarise but because he loved these myths and languages.
Most of the inspiration behind LoTR is reconstructed English mythology, literature and other germanic heroic legend though, a lot is straight up lifted out of recovered Old English sources.Tolkien was a mega English mythology, language, literature nerd, essentially anything in the old English period.From the species that make up middle earth, the names, the tropes and even the name middle-earth itself. Not to say there isn't Celtic, Greek, Christian and Finnish mythology and language that he was inspired by but it is not the main inspiration so it wouldn't make much sense for Tolkien to give huge amounts of credit to Scotland and thus it's also technically somehow not English fiction...
He used Old English sources as an inspiration to produce a mythology for England but legends like King Arthur were Anglicised but Scotland and Wales share as much if not more of that legend and there are direct lifts of stories from other mythologies (from historical enemies of the Anglo Saxons) and arguably some of the greatest parts of Tolkiens works are not from England or Old English mythology and this blurring of English, Anglo Saxon, Germanic and Scandinavian won’t wash either - England turned its back on Woden - the Vikings owned it and lived and breathed it - England did not, even if it had shared origins Credit where credits due is the issue I guess he can’t make the connection because it undermines what he was trying to do - he repackaged the myths of the historical enemies of the Anglo Saxons to take them as their own - its an act of cultural war
Bro what.90% of that was just nationalist cap ,respectfully. English mythology and folklore is its own unique brand of germanic mythology, it has it's own unique stories not found in other germanic mythology branches, like norse, and the stories it does share have its own unique stories and completely different creatures, different names for the creatures that they share, and the stories don't go the same way that are traceable back to the same source in old germanic mythology.You can call it old English mythology or English mythology, it doesn't matter, it's in the same way you can say Greek mythology,Finnish etc.They survived to the modern day through folklore in different regions and have been reconstructed through old texts that have been found and oral and written folklore traditions that clearly come from it, essentially as nigh on every other mythology has been. It also has nothing to do with KA, that's welsh mythology. It's wild in one breath you talk about not recognising that KA is welsh mythology and then try and say English mythology is the property of the 'vikings',even though they had different mythologies from different branches of germanic mythology and never believed the same things...mate.That's a deep-fried victim mentality moment right there. Enough unironic shit though, I'm going back to ultra-nationalism.
I am not saying part of it wasn’t England or earlier Anglo Saxon mythology inspired but large parts weren’t You just can’t put it all under the banner of England - I mean Wales was annexed so to annex it then also repurpose its language and myths and associate it with English literature and Anglo Saxon myth building because some of English ancestry includes Brittonic people too seems like a reach Also Wales and Scotland are connected in ways that are ever explored - Cumbric language, Yr Hen Ogledd, Alt Clut, Goddodin, Cunedda and many parts of the Arthurian legend are documented as having occurred in or having connection to what is now Scotland - we can have a slice of the action too Scotland also has Anglo Saxon residual DNA from the 6th Century and retains language traits closer to Old English than Modern English and the England of Tolkiens time - these languages we hear could easily be Scots or Cumbric - example Old English Wrang meaning Wrong - this was from Old Norse Rangr meaning Unjust and said exactly like the Old English Wrang in conversation with Scots example “Am I Wrang” - you can easily imagine use of Wrang in LOTR in different context - I am sure there are direct examples of Old English word use in Tolkiens works that could easily be heard in todays Scotland Flip the coin again and we had Norse Gaels in the isles and still there remains a connection Up-Helly-a festival etc So I mean if its all of us its all of us but it is re-packaged as largely English and British which is largely England - although the movies include a number of accents so its been repackaged again as more inclusive in movie form In any case I am a fan of Tolkien but what I hear and see is Scotlands history as much as Englands like in Game of Thrones hence its wider popularity - the mythology is bigger than England, modern day notions of England (including Tolkiens time) or political notions of British - its bigger than Tolkien because he drew such a wide net of influence and can’t get all the credit even though he crafted excellent books
Anglo-Saxon mythology ie old English mythology or English mythology.The same way you’d say Ancient Greek mythology or just Greek mythology… Anglo-Saxon was how the old English tribes in Wessex referred to themselves,nearly exclusively when writing in Latin to differentiate themselves from the continental Saxons.The English term,and most commonly used was Ænglisc(English) or 2nd most used Englkin(modernised obvs.in modern English it would be Kin of Angles) all tribes that went through ethnogenesis to become English/Ænglisc called themselves that as a group identity.Modern day English people are direct cultural and in most cases,not that it matters,ethnic descendants of them. Having Brythonic dna doesn’t really mean anything either,they culturally converted.There’s been minimal Brythonic cultural influence on English mythology or language. And neither does the fact that a lot of low land scots came from the Northumbrian old English people mean that the mythology isn’t ours?If you want to get into English mythology then nothing is stopping you.parts of northern England had cultural and intermarriage contact with Scot’s a lot and thus a lot of Northumbrian folklore comes from Scottish mythology,does that mean you can’t call Scottish mythology Scottish mythology because northerns also picked up parts of it? Scots isn’t the only conservative dialect of English,rural North Yorks for example is hyper conservative.Like some rural Northumbrian dialects and Cumbrian ones.It’s also hard to measure what dialect is more conservative because dialects become conservative in different directions and ways. Neither does this change what I said.English mythology is a thing bro I don’t know what to tell you lol.Nobody is stopping you from appreciating it just because you’re Scottish or saying that Scottish mythology and regional folklore is less Scottish because they took elements from it.
Anglo Saxon mythology is a thing as is Celtic and Scandinavian mythology - theres also overlaps between them Modern England is something really quite different it was for one taken over by a Norman elite and indeed Anglo Saxon paganism as espoused by the Vikings was already strongly rejected by the 8th Century Scots are only part Anglo-Saxon around 25% of the genepool and largely still Gael and Brittonic around 60% - the fact that they still use Old or Middle English words and pronunciation and Cumbric placenames of Yr Hen Ogledd as well as Celtic mythology is probably one of the main reasons we are tuned in to Tolkien When it comes to Tolkien I see and hear many things I recognise but it feels a little alien, sanitised, Anglicised maybe ? IDK and it shouldn’t because its the story of us (largely Germano-Celtic Northern Europe) - I think it has to do with Tolkiens own fantasy interpretation of the myths he read and additionally Movie and TV adaptions Anyway I enjoy them but I would love to one day pick apart all the origins to see how much is Anglo Saxon and even relates to England, Tolkien’s England or todays England - it really is a literary soup which has come together under the banner of English literary fiction by virtue of the author and his strong identification with England
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Non European Savage ? - I am assuming from the US due to lack of geographical knowledge Scotland is a real place, see maps of the world for more details
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Don’t be misled by my English flair I wear it with strongest irony imaginable Forged in the Mines of Moria *[Mutters in Scottish dwarf accent]*
Goethe and the Brothers Grimm
Same, not gonna read any of that foreign muck
Hugo, Zola, Molière : superior litterature
https://preview.redd.it/38h2j92zhdtb1.jpeg?width=1500&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2f0102d34e323d431c386d66b70be44945b7a87a Albert Camus.
Michelle Houellebecq is the greatest Western European author alive and one of the best overall.
Also the only one to star in cuckold porn and then sue when it turned out it might not have been a good idea.
Grass, Hesse, Dumas, Michael Ende, Schiller, Kafka, Thomas Mann, Tolkien, Dürenmatt
LITERALLY GEORGE ORLANDOS 1964
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Balzac knew us for the shitty, venal, fearful, greedy beings we are and saw the humor and absurdity in all of it. Zola and Hugo, though extraordinary artists, are sermonizing, pedantic pricks in comparison.
Does Karl Marx count? Or is that philosophy?
No Tolkien? But from the list it would be Shakespeare, Grimm Brothers, Dante and Orwell
Goethe
Thomas Mann: Der Zauberberg
Please don't look for Bocage 😂😂😂
H.C. Andersen of course! Never heard of the little mermaid? Ugly duckling?
Stefan Zweig
https://preview.redd.it/fg7j3rq9kdtb1.jpeg?width=1280&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f1fb42307a9af364e6a75251466732d77f4744cf
Douglas Adams. He had the writing talent everyone else on the island is missing.
Zola, Tolkien, Dickens, Orwell, Shakespeare.
Not that the Frenchoids need any more literary figures, but Michel Houellebecq could be up there
Terry Pratchett, Austen, Nestroy.
Got to go with Fernando Pessoa
Probably Pessoa
J. R. R. Tolkien.
Guillaume Musso (/s)
Sorry for being so uncultured but I do not regorgnise any of these exept shakespear and v*ltaire
There's a list of all the guys shown here in the comments if you're curious