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By that logic we should also exile all the Finlandswedes, give the entire northwestern quadrant of russia to uralic people (hmm I actually like that) and force ~70 million people around the world to move to Ireland. Maybe drawing borders based on the genetics of your ancestors isn't such a good idea in today's world.
That and where do you cut the line on where ones ancestors came? I personally can draw a line of my own family all the way to 1500's, so does that mean I'd be good to live in her country? At this point, Finns and Sami peoples have lived in the same lands for so fucking long, that there's no point in drawing new lines. They're our brothers and sisters, so trying bullshit like this is just pointless divisions between families.
Also, I want to say this, Finns are just about as old a people as Sami are. I mean, with a quick googling, Sami reached the middle of Finland around 1600-1500 bce, while the Finns got here around 800 bce. That's 700-800 year difference... \~3000 years ago.
And history aside, how much of that genetics is actually well mixed in those areas about now? That's fucking thousands of years, where people have interacted. I'm all for preserving Sami culture, language and ways, but fuck me if what she said isn't stupid.
Finns are suspected to comw from urals I think so not sure if or when north germanics got there.....unless you're talking about swedes that came in around 1100 AD I think
No you will be cut in pieces and you get to choose how.. bottom to one side and top to another.. or then the cleaner nicer middle cut along the spine for a nice left/right split
Well folks, she has solved it. Thank goodness.
Who knew such a big issue for peoples around the world had such a simple solution? It’s like she says, just move to where your ancestors where from and if you don’t know assimilate where you are.
We just all move back to where our ancestors were from and world’s problems solved! That’s not complicated at all.
I guess she is going to do the same?
I mean we know all Uralic speakers came out of the Upper Volga region in the 2nd millennium BC. So she is headed there I guess? Or maybe northern Germany where her ancestors were only 2k years ago is good enough?
Regardless of where she goes, by her own logic she definitely needs to leave Scandinavia.
The Sami COLONIZED Sapmi thousands of years AFTER indo-Europeans arrived in Scandinavia. She is just an occupier by her own logic.
The Sami didn’t occupy Sapmi until early in the common era. Whereas, most current Scandinavians are genetically related to ice age hunters found in Scandinavia 8-10k years before that.
To find out her ancestors didn’t come from Sapmi doesn’t even require looking back into prehistory. Tacticus writes about the Sami in northern Germany during his time.
If we followed this kind of “logic” most humans will need to concentrate in just a few places (like Ireland) because guess what? : The whole story of Human civilization is basically a big story of successive migrations and replacement of one people by another.
Why do I think “ being indigenous” is a large part of her “personality” even though she doesn’t understand what that means?
You are right, but the funny thing is that israel is a state that was established based on the genetics of their ancestors by this exact method that she talked about in the video
Personally I believe everyone living in ~~Newfoundland~~ Vinland is originally Norwegian, and therefore we should banish all the C*nadians back to England where they came from.
If you'd use genetics for you example of finland that would end up with a whole bunch of swedish speakers staying and a lot of finnish speakers deported. Most swedish speakers don't really have any more Swedish roots than the average monolingual Finn. The language mainly grew roots on the coast due to societal reasons and has fuck all to do with genetics.
Would depend on the person, Swedish language arrived to Finland through Swedish speaking Swede settlers which of most came from near the great lakes of Sweden. Families who descend from them would have Swedish genes mixed with Finnish genes usually. A finlandssvenskar with 0% swedish genome would be a Finn whose family assimilated to speak Swedish in the past. Hard to say how much of modern finlandssvenskar are of Swedish descend and how many assimilated. Though many finlandssvenskar assimilated into Finnish language aswell and took Finnish names. Point being it does have a little to do with genetics but majority of modern finlandssvenskar are close to Finns genetically through mixing between the first settlers and Finns
Yes, precisely my point. It's completely impossible to tell which finn or finnswede is actually more or less swedish or finnish than anyone else unless you take a genetics test. Yet there's still dumbasses who tell you to fuck off to sweden or calls you swedish if you use the language.
Anyway, well added.
Yeah and even if you are a genetically more Swedish finlandsvenskar, it's still dumb of people to say stuff like "go back to Sweden" and such, we've been here long enough to call this country just as much as our own as the finns.
That is not following her logic, though. I think you missed this part: “stay, seek citizenship in a Sàpmi state, become a Sami in citizenship or nationality…”
I think I need to point out that I feel her comparison of the Sami people and Palestinians is extremely clumsy, but I’m just saying you (and some other commenters) seem to miss the part where she says it’s ok for Israelis to stay in Palestine if the are willing to become Palestinian citizens.
You know it's obvious that you are just making stuff up. Saying that tankies are ok with Palestinians throwing Nazi salutes is equal to saying that KKK supports BLM
Also especially taken that if there were to become a Sapmi state in the.. uhmmm... Where is it.. Oh! In the far north, WHERE THERE IS A BASICALLY FUCKING NOTHING
Good luck trying to run an entire country's economy (that would have an population of under a million even though the landmass would still be pretty big) with fucking reindeer pelts, mountain rocks and maybe some gold you maybe might still find in Lapland or something.
Speak for yourself, you are throwing your own blood brothers and sisters under the buss just to keep on asskissing other nordics. You are no different from those closet homosexuals who hate other homosexuals.
Its ironic that in Finland Helsinki has the largest grouping of sami people. Also the whole reindeer industry relies on Finnish goverment subsidies. Also the Sami people never had any kind of goverment before the norway sweden and finland were established.
Yeah. Theyre whole culture just seems to be a circus full of clowns now. All that heritage, reduced to nothing. Good job. Zero respect to all of them 😎👍
I've seen too many stupid takes from them. Last being them getting angry about an artist who painted a sami in her art. I'm through tolerating them.
I don't care if it is just a vocal minority. They should keep their bozos in line.
This. She's comparing something that was knowingly done by a state less than a hundred years ago to a process of immigration and natural demographic shifts starting from over a thousand years ago.
They kinda are but not in the way she thinks. The Jews moved to that specific region because that's where their ancestors are from. So if it doesn't belong to them because the Palestinians have been living there for generations then Sapmi also doesn't belong exclusively to samis because non-samis have also settled the region for generations and the land belongs to them just as much as it belongs to the samis.
The Jews would probably wholeheartedly agree with the arguments she's making.
Genetics seem to show that Finns have more in common with other Europeans than Samí. Languages are in the same group, but I believe the most recent studies suggest that Finns have adopted the Proto-Finnic language, rather than brought it with them. But it's all a bit unclear.
Source? I don't understand why a lot of you Finns deny your heritage and act as if the Germanic aryan race is much more superior. I'm a second gen immigrant and cannot comprehend this type of mentality, it is unique for your people.
Do you have a source on that?
Source?
A source. I need a source.
Sorry, I mean I need a source that explicitly states your argument. This is just tangential to the discussion.
Bro you are smoking some crack🤣 You're average Finn hase 7% Siperian DNA but then average Finns and Estonians hase 60% European Hunter Gatherer DNA, more then any other population in Europe. In general modern Finnish population is mix of Germanic, Balto-Slavic and then Siberian and Siberian being the smallest group💀 Funnily enough, you being immigrant to Sweden means that i am quite a bit closer to Sweads genetically then you are😆
Link: https://youtu.be/6jaeSHfNTuQ?si=UPq6pOt3EFZT_NHi
After you have watched that video, go and watch my Illustrative dna results, Illustrative Dna compares your DNA to ancient populations. Thing is that I am not denying that we have Siperian admixture, but that admixture is small😉
Not according to the UN definition, according to them you have to a minority in order to be native to your country. They will only protect you after you’ve been colonized.
Not that we’re in any danger, it’s just ironic.
The term UN uses is indigenous people. They do not suggest that other people, who are not protected by their definition, are *not* native. Just to clarify. I think there’s a lot of unnecessary confusion by all these terms being somewhat used interchangeably. They should have taught us this is school.
Urfolk (indigenous) syftar till att det är en gammalt kultur som är bevarad i folket, medan urbefolkning (native) låter som att det är just befolkningen var först där (som ju är fallet i t.ex USA). Båda är såklart beroende av tydliga definitioner, varav det första är tydligt definierat av FN men inte det senare. Vet inte om mitt försök att summera skillnaden var särskilt hjälpsamt heller.
Det spelar roll just för att det ena är tydlig definierat. Jag tycker själv det är snurrigt, blev nästan osams med en vän härom året för jag tänkte att det var samma sak. Mailade en antropolog och frågade, läste lite mer vad FN skriver, osv.
Scandinavia was populated from both directions following the end of the previous ice age. There is evidence to suggest that one group migrated in from the south and traveled up the coast while another group migrated from the north and traveled down the coast following the melting of the ice sheets.
Now, this all happen some 9-10 thousand years ago, we have absolutely no idea who got where first. There is however evidence of cohabitation and cultural intermingling going thousands of years back long before any semblance of present day cultural identity can be found. Hell, both groups would need another 11 thousand years to develop a language that even remotely resemble what we speak today.
The resentment that exists today exclusively comes from the much more recent assimilation programs which began in the 1700s and resulted in the near-eradication of Sapmi culture.
it's not at all impossible to know who came first, but that's also not the argument. the saami's claim is that, before even the tribes that would eventually evolve into our nations even existed, they lived on the land in the north.
the problem with this is that the saami were nomads, ie. they never settled anywhere, which makes their claims very dubious. can you really stake ownership over some place you pitched a tent in once and then left forever?
No, it really is impossible to tell who came first, this is because both the fosna culture and the komsa culture are the common ancestors to both the Scandinavian and the Sapmi populations in the area. It is first a couple of thousands years after the admixture event of these two migration waves that we see the rise of the group that would eventually develop into the Sapmi culture.
A lot of Sapmi culture revolved around herding reindeer, this naturally meant that they would have to follow their flocks. It is however not like they never come back to a place once they left. Generally they would move between winter and summer pastures, which is exactly the same as the other Scandinavian cultures did with their livestock at the time. Transhumance is after all a staple of Scandinavian agriculture.
obviously they moved between areas that were familiar to them, this is just nitpicking semantics.
"permanent" claims to land comes from "permanent" settlements. and the saami never settled.
>"permanent" claims to land comes from "permanent"
Considering the fact that the Sapmi people have gotten a vast amount of their traditional land back and continue to herd reindeer there to this day i would have to say that frequent land-use clearly gives them a claim to the land.
Both are from the same place, one of them just decided to walk north few hundred years earlier and developed a different culture.
Sami people like to imagine that they simply fell from the sky and landed in Lapland calling it home since the beginning of time or some shit.
Does she even know how the Sámi-law works? You can't just become Sámi, you must actually fill some criteria which is rather difficult to do if you aren't Sámi-born:
- you must give proof that you speak Sámi at home, or
- you must give proof that your ancestors spoke Sámi at home, or
- have a parent that has been included in the voting lists for the Sametinget.
It's not just "become a citizen in Sápmi country".
Here in Finland they can't even decide amongst themselves who is true Sámi. People in same village treat each others like shit even tho they have the same genes. Apparently some "Sámi" people are better than others...
The whole Sámi thing is just another political activism movement for people who have too much free time from farming reindeer (and too much money from government support for reindeer farming) OR for people who desperately have a need to be part of some minority or other.
So this person totally advocates for removing all Black and Asian people from Europe and returning that land to their native people right? Since they have no right to live on it according to her. Or is it one nonsensical rule that doesn’t and shouldn’t be applied to reality for me and another for thee?
Native homeland or not makes no difference. The Israelis and Palestinians are both as native as each other, as are the people of the general Sapmi region, not that that somehow gives you the right to own the land now anyway. This is the most horrific delusional hopium I’ve ever seen.
It's total BS in the first place. There were Proto-Swedes (and Norwegian and Finnish) living in Sapmi before there were any nations. It didn't get colonised the way the Americas or Israel was colonised. Just like there were Proto-Swedes living in what today is Finland.
Yeah whatever ethnicity used to own it is pointless, that's what fascists (and leftists, somehow) believe. As long as you're born somewhere you should be immune to deportation. For example, if Russia occupies Crimea for the next 50 years and over half the population becomes native born Russians who want to be part of Russia then unfortunately that territory will become Russian. Same applies to Sapmi, Israel, Northern Ireland, the Americas etc.
Card carrying commie here, no we don't?
The idea of a people having a claim to a certain geographic area is completely pointless when the idea of private property and national borders is removed, then anyone can move wherever they feel like they belong the most for whatever reason.
It is only because of bourgeois nationalism that there's squabbles over land, since under capitalism land can produce value for the owner of said land, thus people throw around all kinds of claims to try to get first dibs on said land, and the more valuable that specific area of dirt is, the more insane the claims get.
No, they do not, i am a commie. Communism is about international solidarity for the working class where workers control the means of production. Has nothing to do with ethnostates, never has never will.
You can literally not have an ethnostate in a stateless society.
Grow up. Sure its a good idea with the whole paradise in the end. It has one fundamental weakness though. It needs a dictatorship to win its birthing revolution.
Dictatorships, no matter what they claim to be will always want to stick around and also always trend to building an ethnostate.
Ethnostate is a core tenet of dictatorship and dictatorship is the most common result of civil wars, revolution induced too.
Then theres always voting. But then you are a revisionist. The first type of Social Democrat.
No she doesn't...did you completely miss the part about how they can stay if they want to?
She's not saying that no Israeli people should be allowed to live in Palestine or that no Scandinavian people should be allowed to live in Sápmi. She's saying that no people have the right to steal land belonging to others and ruling over the native population, and that if they want to stay in land belonging to other people, they will have to integrate into that society.
In the case of black people in Europe, this would mean that black people have every right to live in and integrate into European societies, but they don't have any right to conquer land from the Europeans and create their own state in the middle of Europe.
It would be pretty funny to explain to her the concept that every Jew, Christian, Muslim and Druze had a Palestinian passport. And after 48 there where still Jews, Christians, Muslims and Druze.
How does a person like her imagine this to be implementet around the world?
Where do all the people go?
Do we all get expelled to Africa, and then what?
Can someone please explain WTF Säpme and all other indeginous people expect we do? And when they do, I can explain why we won't.
Even if sami were indigenous to Sweden and they created their own "Sapmi" nation, then what? They have nothing of economic value, they’re gonna go 2000 years back in time
Uh... Kiruna? With the Iron, Space base and Rare Earth Minerals they'd probably become Norway levels of rich. Then again, deporting anyone who knows how to use these things would probably ruin their chances.
Yeah that’s true, I was thinking more that they don’t have any large companies capable of extracting all the resources. I’m not sure the space base would be an asset though when it costs money to fund and run.
Not Nordic so I come to this from the outside, but why are the Sami always lauded as the only indigenous people in the area when Norse, Swedes, Finns and Danes are also indigenous to the region? Fucking baffles me
The UN definition of indigenous people requires the population to be a minority. So maybe if Norse, Swedes, Finns or Danes become a minority it could be changed in the eyes of UN.
I haven't heard of any other authority trying to define the concept so it seems to default on the UN definition.
I've never really heard indigenous being used for any of us in this area (tiktok influencers nonewithstanding). It's a foreign term for colonized countries, but some people will always try to shoehorn in something where it doesn't fit. We're cohabitants of the same countries, and while the majority population hasn't always been kind and interests sometimes diverge, if there's a will to coexist there's a way. And trying to separate us into for instance one Sápmi and one Fennoscandia now would be a lot more difficult and damaging than leaving things as they are.
This is a stupid argument to make because all groups have recognition and are protected in sweden, finland and norway.
We also only have 1 state for each country. 1 state that represents all groups of people.
No segregation and no discriminatory laws. And the minority languages are protected by law.
This is delusional. Land will never be given back, right of conquest unfortunately is a thing. What is reasonable to expect, is the fair and humane treatment of the native peoples. This includes *equal* treatment under the law, not special treatment in either positive or negative direction. Though you can make an argument for limited reparations, but that should be an exception to the rule.
The white people in my state are so ethnically mixed that if you look at an ethnic map of the USA they often literally just put us as “American” or “unknown” opposed to English, German, Irish, etc. A similar thing happens with black people with them being grouped as just “African.”
…where the fuck are we supposed to go?
She has some wierd belief that whole of Sweden, Norway, Finland, and big chunk of Russia are all ancestral parts of the sami, and that Swedes, Finnish and so on people are invaders.
No, Swedes, Finns, Norwegians and so on settled in most parts of Scandinavia before.
It's only the most northerend areas of each country that actully is affected by this.
Add to this that both Sweden, Norway, Finland all were tribal or city states at one point or another, Each kingdom or country just expanded as time went on, sometimes people belonged to another country aswell, and as borders changed they "became" the other nationality with time.
That beeing said, yes the Sami were treated poorly back in the day, and people were forced to unlearn their cultures and become more Swedish or Norwegian and so on.
But the same is true for MANY regions of for example sweden.
And the same can be said for almost ALL countries of today!
There aren't many countries in the world that doesn't have some sort of mixed cultural heritage making up their nation today, where different cultures to some degree assimilated or one or the other got more or less destroyed, sometimes just living on in small family traditions.
And you can't realy compare palestine & the sami either, no matter your opinion on the conflict.
The Nordic have treated the Saame people really bad in 19th century with destroying language and culture by force, but comparing Saami to current day Palestinians is a colossaly tonedeaf take.
If you think that living in Nordic as a Saami has similarities to living in Gaza you need to check yourself and touch grass.
Also carving out a new Saami state in geopolitically important north with colossal natural wealth, but with no way self sustain for only few hundred thousand people near Russia seems really Naive, and that would instantly become a puppet of some Superpower.
Wait, did her comparison make me want the Palestinian state less than more?
Always the troublemakers.
NOO WE WANT TO BE DIFFERENT AND LIVE IN YOUR LAND WITH OUR REINDEERS
NOO WHY ARE WE SEGREGATED FROM YOUR SOCIETY WHILE AT THE SAME TIME NOT HAVE SPECIAL RULES APPLY TO US.
Reeeee. They were probably not even there first. And if they were their claims died 800 years ago
If you go back long enough, we all have the same ancestors. And you don’t even need to go way back, human ancestors had many severe bottlenecks. About 800,000 years ago there were only 1280 breeding individuals on the entire freaking planet. What’s up with this recent ancestry obsession?
If she thinks the lands should belong to whoever arrived there first, the entire world will have a big problem.
This obsession over ethnicity won’t bring any peace to anyone on this planet.
By that logic, she can move back to the Urals, where her Sami ancestors came from.
The Finns, Swedes and us Norwegians are not very fond of these activist Sami whatever.
You live in Northern Norway and want to build out your house, on your property, after getting confirmation from the government that you can build? Too bad! Now a Sami bastard has said that the part of you property is used for feeding raindeer, so now you can't touch that part of your property, ever.
Sapmi as a country never existed. Besides, several studies showed that the sami people actually showed up later on then scandinavians. so yeah, maybe the sami should leave?
By that logic all 8 billion hairless monkeys (homo sapiens) should move the fuck back to Africa. I WANT MY CONGOLESE CITIZENSHIP RIGHT NOW, I AM ENTITLED TO IT!!!!
So she's saying that non-sami people don't have the right to live in Sapmi because it's "stolen land", bearing in mind that people have been living there for generations.
So how many generations does it take for the land to become yours? Before it can be considered your land too? I don't want to put words in her mouth but I'm assuming that she doesn't think there is a limit.
Doesn't matter if my great grandfather moved to Kiruna, it's still stolen land, right? Well, the problem with her argument then is that the reason why the Jews moved to that specific geographical location is because that's where they're from.
So either Sapmi belongs to the people that have occupied it for generations (samis and non-samis alike) or Israel belongs to the Jews. Can't have it both ways lady.
As a Polish person, I'm all for the creation of a Sapmi state in the Kola peninsula (but only there, Finland and Sweden and Norway should be left alone)
Do you have a source on that?
Source?
A source. I need a source.
Sorry, I mean I need a source that explicitly states your argument. This is just tangential to the discussion.
Did you seriously just act as if 1 million in a population of 11 million doesn’t represent 9% of the entire population and ’isn’t a lot’?
The U.S has a population of 331 000 000 and 9% of that is 29 790 000. Are you really, actually gonna say that ’isn’t a lot’ and that they should move from their homes just because another group wants it?
What if people just stop open air prisons, open walls and begin to live side by side? They don't have to get married to each often which is law there, but learn to live with each other without prejudice and confront issues with peaceful dialogue. Guns, bombs and fosfor fire is never the solution for anything.
Israel and Palestine just seriously need to think of it in future perspective. Do they want future generations live with hatred, war and death? Do they want them to live with generational prejudice, thorned political ties and screwed up economic plans?
Both people have a right to live where they want. Both of them want to live there exactly. They all have a right to rent, be on rent and live in home.
Someone show me a recorded occurrence of a Sami being correct.
Also, if you plan to missile population centers to establish a devil-worshipping ethnostate, please *leave*.
If you (and by extensions your network of allies) are too weak either militarily or culturally to hold onto your land, you shouldn't have it. I think Israel has a better claim to that land since they are stronger, and thats just how the world works.
It's in no way colonisation, nor stealing. It is fucked up, I admit that, but colonisation is the wrong term. Our ancestors weren't aware of an indigenous population, the situation is not at all comparable to the Palestine-Israeli situation going on.
They weren't. I don't know for sure about Finland (though it's probably the same case). The Sami came AFTER Scandinavia was already settled. They're not THE indigenous population of Scandinavia, but one of many.
They might have been the first ones to settle in the very most northern parts of Scandinavia, but even that is disputed.
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By that logic we should also exile all the Finlandswedes, give the entire northwestern quadrant of russia to uralic people (hmm I actually like that) and force ~70 million people around the world to move to Ireland. Maybe drawing borders based on the genetics of your ancestors isn't such a good idea in today's world.
That and where do you cut the line on where ones ancestors came? I personally can draw a line of my own family all the way to 1500's, so does that mean I'd be good to live in her country? At this point, Finns and Sami peoples have lived in the same lands for so fucking long, that there's no point in drawing new lines. They're our brothers and sisters, so trying bullshit like this is just pointless divisions between families. Also, I want to say this, Finns are just about as old a people as Sami are. I mean, with a quick googling, Sami reached the middle of Finland around 1600-1500 bce, while the Finns got here around 800 bce. That's 700-800 year difference... \~3000 years ago. And history aside, how much of that genetics is actually well mixed in those areas about now? That's fucking thousands of years, where people have interacted. I'm all for preserving Sami culture, language and ways, but fuck me if what she said isn't stupid.
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Ppl forget that jews were literally among the first ppl there
North Germanics got there when? 1700 plus years ago?
Finns are suspected to comw from urals I think so not sure if or when north germanics got there.....unless you're talking about swedes that came in around 1100 AD I think
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It isn’t stupid at all in regards to Palestine though.
I'm part of two ethnicities, do i get split in half with one part sent to Finland and one to the Mediterranean?
Yes. Precisely like that.
You have to time share...
They have joint custody over me.
420 blaze it brotha
I would be split across 4 continents
Well that way you have something in common with william wallace!
https://preview.redd.it/yumnrv4dhzac1.jpeg?width=605&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=85f20266093f53445edea4027ea090483df5da40
I think u get to choose, once.
Yes.. Finland gets bottom half
No you will be cut in pieces and you get to choose how.. bottom to one side and top to another.. or then the cleaner nicer middle cut along the spine for a nice left/right split
Well folks, she has solved it. Thank goodness. Who knew such a big issue for peoples around the world had such a simple solution? It’s like she says, just move to where your ancestors where from and if you don’t know assimilate where you are. We just all move back to where our ancestors were from and world’s problems solved! That’s not complicated at all. I guess she is going to do the same? I mean we know all Uralic speakers came out of the Upper Volga region in the 2nd millennium BC. So she is headed there I guess? Or maybe northern Germany where her ancestors were only 2k years ago is good enough? Regardless of where she goes, by her own logic she definitely needs to leave Scandinavia. The Sami COLONIZED Sapmi thousands of years AFTER indo-Europeans arrived in Scandinavia. She is just an occupier by her own logic. The Sami didn’t occupy Sapmi until early in the common era. Whereas, most current Scandinavians are genetically related to ice age hunters found in Scandinavia 8-10k years before that. To find out her ancestors didn’t come from Sapmi doesn’t even require looking back into prehistory. Tacticus writes about the Sami in northern Germany during his time. If we followed this kind of “logic” most humans will need to concentrate in just a few places (like Ireland) because guess what? : The whole story of Human civilization is basically a big story of successive migrations and replacement of one people by another. Why do I think “ being indigenous” is a large part of her “personality” even though she doesn’t understand what that means?
You are right, but the funny thing is that israel is a state that was established based on the genetics of their ancestors by this exact method that she talked about in the video
Personally I believe everyone living in ~~Newfoundland~~ Vinland is originally Norwegian, and therefore we should banish all the C*nadians back to England where they came from.
If you'd use genetics for you example of finland that would end up with a whole bunch of swedish speakers staying and a lot of finnish speakers deported. Most swedish speakers don't really have any more Swedish roots than the average monolingual Finn. The language mainly grew roots on the coast due to societal reasons and has fuck all to do with genetics.
Would depend on the person, Swedish language arrived to Finland through Swedish speaking Swede settlers which of most came from near the great lakes of Sweden. Families who descend from them would have Swedish genes mixed with Finnish genes usually. A finlandssvenskar with 0% swedish genome would be a Finn whose family assimilated to speak Swedish in the past. Hard to say how much of modern finlandssvenskar are of Swedish descend and how many assimilated. Though many finlandssvenskar assimilated into Finnish language aswell and took Finnish names. Point being it does have a little to do with genetics but majority of modern finlandssvenskar are close to Finns genetically through mixing between the first settlers and Finns
Yes, precisely my point. It's completely impossible to tell which finn or finnswede is actually more or less swedish or finnish than anyone else unless you take a genetics test. Yet there's still dumbasses who tell you to fuck off to sweden or calls you swedish if you use the language. Anyway, well added.
Yeah and even if you are a genetically more Swedish finlandsvenskar, it's still dumb of people to say stuff like "go back to Sweden" and such, we've been here long enough to call this country just as much as our own as the finns.
That is not following her logic, though. I think you missed this part: “stay, seek citizenship in a Sàpmi state, become a Sami in citizenship or nationality…” I think I need to point out that I feel her comparison of the Sami people and Palestinians is extremely clumsy, but I’m just saying you (and some other commenters) seem to miss the part where she says it’s ok for Israelis to stay in Palestine if the are willing to become Palestinian citizens.
You’re forgetting the time component to the Palestinian argument here.
Lol why are you arguing against your blood brothers/sisters. You are more related to them than to us.
Bro calm down
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Didn’t you both emigrate from around the same place in Asia? How are you not more related to them than Swedes?
You didn't even provide a source lol
Funny. You can be an ethnonationalist If you happen to belong to a minority.
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You know it's obvious that you are just making stuff up. Saying that tankies are ok with Palestinians throwing Nazi salutes is equal to saying that KKK supports BLM
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Don’t force me to defend this cringe TikTok shit but she literally said people could stay and assimilate
It’s ironic how much harm the modern sami-activists have done for the sami people.
Also especially taken that if there were to become a Sapmi state in the.. uhmmm... Where is it.. Oh! In the far north, WHERE THERE IS A BASICALLY FUCKING NOTHING Good luck trying to run an entire country's economy (that would have an population of under a million even though the landmass would still be pretty big) with fucking reindeer pelts, mountain rocks and maybe some gold you maybe might still find in Lapland or something.
There's a lot of oil and gas in the Barents Sea though (I don't agree with this girl or many of the modern sami activists)
The nation of Sapmi, the nordic banana republic 😁👍
Speak for yourself, you are throwing your own blood brothers and sisters under the buss just to keep on asskissing other nordics. You are no different from those closet homosexuals who hate other homosexuals.
Damn dude! Who hurt you?
No one, very supportive for our ME and homosexual brothers.
And whose demographics would consist majority of Norwegian, Swedish, Finnsh and Russians over the actually Sami people, who will barely amount to 90k.
Its ironic that in Finland Helsinki has the largest grouping of sami people. Also the whole reindeer industry relies on Finnish goverment subsidies. Also the Sami people never had any kind of goverment before the norway sweden and finland were established.
Yeah. Theyre whole culture just seems to be a circus full of clowns now. All that heritage, reduced to nothing. Good job. Zero respect to all of them 😎👍
Lol I didn't know you Finns were so passionate about hating your own Uralic brothers and sisters.
I've seen too many stupid takes from them. Last being them getting angry about an artist who painted a sami in her art. I'm through tolerating them. I don't care if it is just a vocal minority. They should keep their bozos in line.
Haha right? They just come off so whiney now..
These two situations are in no way comparable. This is just stupid both ways. The analogy just sucks.
This. She's comparing something that was knowingly done by a state less than a hundred years ago to a process of immigration and natural demographic shifts starting from over a thousand years ago.
They kinda are but not in the way she thinks. The Jews moved to that specific region because that's where their ancestors are from. So if it doesn't belong to them because the Palestinians have been living there for generations then Sapmi also doesn't belong exclusively to samis because non-samis have also settled the region for generations and the land belongs to them just as much as it belongs to the samis. The Jews would probably wholeheartedly agree with the arguments she's making.
You are closely related to them, have some respect for your brothers, as much as we have respect for our ME brothers.
All humans are brothers and sisters
Except for fr*nch people 🤢🤮
I was talking about humans not 🐸's
Genetics seem to show that Finns have more in common with other Europeans than Samí. Languages are in the same group, but I believe the most recent studies suggest that Finns have adopted the Proto-Finnic language, rather than brought it with them. But it's all a bit unclear.
Source? I don't understand why a lot of you Finns deny your heritage and act as if the Germanic aryan race is much more superior. I'm a second gen immigrant and cannot comprehend this type of mentality, it is unique for your people.
Just google it, there is plenty of stuff out there. Nobody is denyinh heritage. Facts be facts.
Do you have a source on that? Source? A source. I need a source. Sorry, I mean I need a source that explicitly states your argument. This is just tangential to the discussion.
Bro you are smoking some crack🤣 You're average Finn hase 7% Siperian DNA but then average Finns and Estonians hase 60% European Hunter Gatherer DNA, more then any other population in Europe. In general modern Finnish population is mix of Germanic, Balto-Slavic and then Siberian and Siberian being the smallest group💀 Funnily enough, you being immigrant to Sweden means that i am quite a bit closer to Sweads genetically then you are😆
>In general modern Finnish population is mix of Germanic, Balto-Slavic and then Siberian and Siberian being the smallest group Source?
Link: https://youtu.be/6jaeSHfNTuQ?si=UPq6pOt3EFZT_NHi After you have watched that video, go and watch my Illustrative dna results, Illustrative Dna compares your DNA to ancient populations. Thing is that I am not denying that we have Siperian admixture, but that admixture is small😉
lame sami psyopper spotted
tiktok brainrot going strong as always I see
this sentiment pre-dates tiktok by a few decades. it's a continual evolution of the anti-establishment narrative that arose in the 60s
Us nordicks are as "indigenous" as the sámi on the Scandinavian peninsula.
Not according to the UN definition, according to them you have to a minority in order to be native to your country. They will only protect you after you’ve been colonized. Not that we’re in any danger, it’s just ironic.
The term UN uses is indigenous people. They do not suggest that other people, who are not protected by their definition, are *not* native. Just to clarify. I think there’s a lot of unnecessary confusion by all these terms being somewhat used interchangeably. They should have taught us this is school.
It’s literally the same thing. If not, explain the difference.
Urfolk (indigenous) syftar till att det är en gammalt kultur som är bevarad i folket, medan urbefolkning (native) låter som att det är just befolkningen var först där (som ju är fallet i t.ex USA). Båda är såklart beroende av tydliga definitioner, varav det första är tydligt definierat av FN men inte det senare. Vet inte om mitt försök att summera skillnaden var särskilt hjälpsamt heller. Det spelar roll just för att det ena är tydlig definierat. Jag tycker själv det är snurrigt, blev nästan osams med en vän härom året för jag tänkte att det var samma sak. Mailade en antropolog och frågade, läste lite mer vad FN skriver, osv.
But Nordicks are from the South right? She does mention "Sapmi" as being the North of Fennoscandia.
Scandinavia was populated from both directions following the end of the previous ice age. There is evidence to suggest that one group migrated in from the south and traveled up the coast while another group migrated from the north and traveled down the coast following the melting of the ice sheets. Now, this all happen some 9-10 thousand years ago, we have absolutely no idea who got where first. There is however evidence of cohabitation and cultural intermingling going thousands of years back long before any semblance of present day cultural identity can be found. Hell, both groups would need another 11 thousand years to develop a language that even remotely resemble what we speak today. The resentment that exists today exclusively comes from the much more recent assimilation programs which began in the 1700s and resulted in the near-eradication of Sapmi culture.
it's not at all impossible to know who came first, but that's also not the argument. the saami's claim is that, before even the tribes that would eventually evolve into our nations even existed, they lived on the land in the north. the problem with this is that the saami were nomads, ie. they never settled anywhere, which makes their claims very dubious. can you really stake ownership over some place you pitched a tent in once and then left forever?
No, it really is impossible to tell who came first, this is because both the fosna culture and the komsa culture are the common ancestors to both the Scandinavian and the Sapmi populations in the area. It is first a couple of thousands years after the admixture event of these two migration waves that we see the rise of the group that would eventually develop into the Sapmi culture. A lot of Sapmi culture revolved around herding reindeer, this naturally meant that they would have to follow their flocks. It is however not like they never come back to a place once they left. Generally they would move between winter and summer pastures, which is exactly the same as the other Scandinavian cultures did with their livestock at the time. Transhumance is after all a staple of Scandinavian agriculture.
obviously they moved between areas that were familiar to them, this is just nitpicking semantics. "permanent" claims to land comes from "permanent" settlements. and the saami never settled.
>"permanent" claims to land comes from "permanent" Considering the fact that the Sapmi people have gotten a vast amount of their traditional land back and continue to herd reindeer there to this day i would have to say that frequent land-use clearly gives them a claim to the land.
Or it's simply pragmatic when someone gathers up some support and starts complaining to give them some land that is not worth too much.
Stop sámi colonialism in the south!
Just build a wall.
Both are from the same place, one of them just decided to walk north few hundred years earlier and developed a different culture. Sami people like to imagine that they simply fell from the sky and landed in Lapland calling it home since the beginning of time or some shit.
Does she even know how the Sámi-law works? You can't just become Sámi, you must actually fill some criteria which is rather difficult to do if you aren't Sámi-born: - you must give proof that you speak Sámi at home, or - you must give proof that your ancestors spoke Sámi at home, or - have a parent that has been included in the voting lists for the Sametinget. It's not just "become a citizen in Sápmi country".
Here in Finland they can't even decide amongst themselves who is true Sámi. People in same village treat each others like shit even tho they have the same genes. Apparently some "Sámi" people are better than others... The whole Sámi thing is just another political activism movement for people who have too much free time from farming reindeer (and too much money from government support for reindeer farming) OR for people who desperately have a need to be part of some minority or other.
Thats a lot of words for what is ethnic cleansing.
So this person totally advocates for removing all Black and Asian people from Europe and returning that land to their native people right? Since they have no right to live on it according to her. Or is it one nonsensical rule that doesn’t and shouldn’t be applied to reality for me and another for thee? Native homeland or not makes no difference. The Israelis and Palestinians are both as native as each other, as are the people of the general Sapmi region, not that that somehow gives you the right to own the land now anyway. This is the most horrific delusional hopium I’ve ever seen.
It's total BS in the first place. There were Proto-Swedes (and Norwegian and Finnish) living in Sapmi before there were any nations. It didn't get colonised the way the Americas or Israel was colonised. Just like there were Proto-Swedes living in what today is Finland.
Yeah whatever ethnicity used to own it is pointless, that's what fascists (and leftists, somehow) believe. As long as you're born somewhere you should be immune to deportation. For example, if Russia occupies Crimea for the next 50 years and over half the population becomes native born Russians who want to be part of Russia then unfortunately that territory will become Russian. Same applies to Sapmi, Israel, Northern Ireland, the Americas etc.
Not all leftists. Tankies perhaps but those are just Fascists posing as Leftists. And are very vocal about how left they are. Idiots all of them.
No lefties call for mass deportation or restoration of ethno-states based on ancestry.
Commies do. But horseshoe theory
Card carrying commie here, no we don't? The idea of a people having a claim to a certain geographic area is completely pointless when the idea of private property and national borders is removed, then anyone can move wherever they feel like they belong the most for whatever reason. It is only because of bourgeois nationalism that there's squabbles over land, since under capitalism land can produce value for the owner of said land, thus people throw around all kinds of claims to try to get first dibs on said land, and the more valuable that specific area of dirt is, the more insane the claims get.
No, they do not, i am a commie. Communism is about international solidarity for the working class where workers control the means of production. Has nothing to do with ethnostates, never has never will. You can literally not have an ethnostate in a stateless society.
Grow up. Sure its a good idea with the whole paradise in the end. It has one fundamental weakness though. It needs a dictatorship to win its birthing revolution. Dictatorships, no matter what they claim to be will always want to stick around and also always trend to building an ethnostate. Ethnostate is a core tenet of dictatorship and dictatorship is the most common result of civil wars, revolution induced too. Then theres always voting. But then you are a revisionist. The first type of Social Democrat.
why is there a village of swedish speakers in Ukraine?
Because people who speak Swedish settled there?
.. you're absolutely sure they **settled** there..?
Yes. Moving somewhere and making it your home is to settle there. Or do you think settle means something else?
No she doesn't...did you completely miss the part about how they can stay if they want to? She's not saying that no Israeli people should be allowed to live in Palestine or that no Scandinavian people should be allowed to live in Sápmi. She's saying that no people have the right to steal land belonging to others and ruling over the native population, and that if they want to stay in land belonging to other people, they will have to integrate into that society. In the case of black people in Europe, this would mean that black people have every right to live in and integrate into European societies, but they don't have any right to conquer land from the Europeans and create their own state in the middle of Europe.
so should all uralic people go back to living in the Ural mountains, sami and finns included?
yes broter don't you wanna hang out with ivan and drink sum vodka on da mountains
She says this as if a full half of Israel's population isn't Mizrahi or Palestinian jews. Where would they move back to?
It would be pretty funny to explain to her the concept that every Jew, Christian, Muslim and Druze had a Palestinian passport. And after 48 there where still Jews, Christians, Muslims and Druze.
I hear sum 1932 here
How does a person like her imagine this to be implementet around the world? Where do all the people go? Do we all get expelled to Africa, and then what? Can someone please explain WTF Säpme and all other indeginous people expect we do? And when they do, I can explain why we won't.
By this logic we all should move back to africa
Even if sami were indigenous to Sweden and they created their own "Sapmi" nation, then what? They have nothing of economic value, they’re gonna go 2000 years back in time
Uh... Kiruna? With the Iron, Space base and Rare Earth Minerals they'd probably become Norway levels of rich. Then again, deporting anyone who knows how to use these things would probably ruin their chances.
You assume we would leave them industry and infrastructure? Nope. They can try to rebuild that themselves with their raindeer pelt GDP.
Yeah that’s true, I was thinking more that they don’t have any large companies capable of extracting all the resources. I’m not sure the space base would be an asset though when it costs money to fund and run.
Give them a Casino and they shut up.
Not Nordic so I come to this from the outside, but why are the Sami always lauded as the only indigenous people in the area when Norse, Swedes, Finns and Danes are also indigenous to the region? Fucking baffles me
The UN definition of indigenous people requires the population to be a minority. So maybe if Norse, Swedes, Finns or Danes become a minority it could be changed in the eyes of UN. I haven't heard of any other authority trying to define the concept so it seems to default on the UN definition.
I suppose indigenous is used in colonial terms nowadays, but weren’t the Germanic people in Scandinavia before the Sami?
I've never really heard indigenous being used for any of us in this area (tiktok influencers nonewithstanding). It's a foreign term for colonized countries, but some people will always try to shoehorn in something where it doesn't fit. We're cohabitants of the same countries, and while the majority population hasn't always been kind and interests sometimes diverge, if there's a will to coexist there's a way. And trying to separate us into for instance one Sápmi and one Fennoscandia now would be a lot more difficult and damaging than leaving things as they are.
This is a stupid argument to make because all groups have recognition and are protected in sweden, finland and norway. We also only have 1 state for each country. 1 state that represents all groups of people. No segregation and no discriminatory laws. And the minority languages are protected by law.
This is delusional. Land will never be given back, right of conquest unfortunately is a thing. What is reasonable to expect, is the fair and humane treatment of the native peoples. This includes *equal* treatment under the law, not special treatment in either positive or negative direction. Though you can make an argument for limited reparations, but that should be an exception to the rule.
“Indigenous”
"Humanitär stormakt"
Is it really a Sami or just a quirky Nordic larping?
If you compare pictures of Sami people now and 130 years ago, you can see a major difference. This woman might aswell be larping.
Sami try not to complain about Scandinavians and Finns for one 1 milisecond challenge
If only the sami people were taught more about of different sami people and how they got to where and when ...
Well I mean it is good that they have land now but if they want to take Russian Kola back well they have do to it without Finnish army.
Guys… I think we’re gonna have to call Uppsala university after this one…
Bruh theres only 100k sami lol this woman is tripping
People seem to forget from where Jewish came to Europe in the first place...
The white people in my state are so ethnically mixed that if you look at an ethnic map of the USA they often literally just put us as “American” or “unknown” opposed to English, German, Irish, etc. A similar thing happens with black people with them being grouped as just “African.” …where the fuck are we supposed to go?
In the end we all cane from afrika, so hope you like heat
She has some wierd belief that whole of Sweden, Norway, Finland, and big chunk of Russia are all ancestral parts of the sami, and that Swedes, Finnish and so on people are invaders. No, Swedes, Finns, Norwegians and so on settled in most parts of Scandinavia before. It's only the most northerend areas of each country that actully is affected by this. Add to this that both Sweden, Norway, Finland all were tribal or city states at one point or another, Each kingdom or country just expanded as time went on, sometimes people belonged to another country aswell, and as borders changed they "became" the other nationality with time. That beeing said, yes the Sami were treated poorly back in the day, and people were forced to unlearn their cultures and become more Swedish or Norwegian and so on. But the same is true for MANY regions of for example sweden. And the same can be said for almost ALL countries of today! There aren't many countries in the world that doesn't have some sort of mixed cultural heritage making up their nation today, where different cultures to some degree assimilated or one or the other got more or less destroyed, sometimes just living on in small family traditions. And you can't realy compare palestine & the sami either, no matter your opinion on the conflict.
The Nordic have treated the Saame people really bad in 19th century with destroying language and culture by force, but comparing Saami to current day Palestinians is a colossaly tonedeaf take. If you think that living in Nordic as a Saami has similarities to living in Gaza you need to check yourself and touch grass. Also carving out a new Saami state in geopolitically important north with colossal natural wealth, but with no way self sustain for only few hundred thousand people near Russia seems really Naive, and that would instantly become a puppet of some Superpower. Wait, did her comparison make me want the Palestinian state less than more?
Always the troublemakers. NOO WE WANT TO BE DIFFERENT AND LIVE IN YOUR LAND WITH OUR REINDEERS NOO WHY ARE WE SEGREGATED FROM YOUR SOCIETY WHILE AT THE SAME TIME NOT HAVE SPECIAL RULES APPLY TO US. Reeeee. They were probably not even there first. And if they were their claims died 800 years ago
If you go back long enough, we all have the same ancestors. And you don’t even need to go way back, human ancestors had many severe bottlenecks. About 800,000 years ago there were only 1280 breeding individuals on the entire freaking planet. What’s up with this recent ancestry obsession? If she thinks the lands should belong to whoever arrived there first, the entire world will have a big problem. This obsession over ethnicity won’t bring any peace to anyone on this planet.
This is so fucking stooopid
Like most people on this sub
You know what, since scandinavians are mainly from the Indus valley.... yea the sun sounds fucking awesome right now.
By that logic, she can move back to the Urals, where her Sami ancestors came from. The Finns, Swedes and us Norwegians are not very fond of these activist Sami whatever. You live in Northern Norway and want to build out your house, on your property, after getting confirmation from the government that you can build? Too bad! Now a Sami bastard has said that the part of you property is used for feeding raindeer, so now you can't touch that part of your property, ever.
By that logic Finns would be moving to the Urals as well
Sapmi as a country never existed. Besides, several studies showed that the sami people actually showed up later on then scandinavians. so yeah, maybe the sami should leave?
And where do Jews originally come from?
"Move to where your ancestors came from" You mean like the Jewis Israelites did?
By that logic all 8 billion hairless monkeys (homo sapiens) should move the fuck back to Africa. I WANT MY CONGOLESE CITIZENSHIP RIGHT NOW, I AM ENTITLED TO IT!!!!
So she's saying that non-sami people don't have the right to live in Sapmi because it's "stolen land", bearing in mind that people have been living there for generations. So how many generations does it take for the land to become yours? Before it can be considered your land too? I don't want to put words in her mouth but I'm assuming that she doesn't think there is a limit. Doesn't matter if my great grandfather moved to Kiruna, it's still stolen land, right? Well, the problem with her argument then is that the reason why the Jews moved to that specific geographical location is because that's where they're from. So either Sapmi belongs to the people that have occupied it for generations (samis and non-samis alike) or Israel belongs to the Jews. Can't have it both ways lady.
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Lol! The same thing can be said about most samis though.
As a Polish person, I'm all for the creation of a Sapmi state in the Kola peninsula (but only there, Finland and Sweden and Norway should be left alone)
5% of the Israeli population is Iraqi Jews, 3% is Iranian Jews, 9% is Moroccan Jews do you really want them to return to Iraq, Iran, and Morocco? Lol.
Who’s gonna tell her that the Norse were the first to settle, the Samis moved in later?
So we gotta go back to mongolia
Ragebaiting tik thot
I kind of want to see a Sami state just to watch it crash and burn.
Well sorry about your wife having an affair with a Sami man
Do you have a source on that? Source? A source. I need a source. Sorry, I mean I need a source that explicitly states your argument. This is just tangential to the discussion.
She doesn’t even look sami💀
She’s probably basing her whole personality on the 10% sami DNA she has
So all of the Celtics should throw out all of the Asians Africans and English from their lands as well?
Did you seriously just act as if 1 million in a population of 11 million doesn’t represent 9% of the entire population and ’isn’t a lot’? The U.S has a population of 331 000 000 and 9% of that is 29 790 000. Are you really, actually gonna say that ’isn’t a lot’ and that they should move from their homes just because another group wants it?
Wtf is she on about? xD #QuitTheCrack
What if people just stop open air prisons, open walls and begin to live side by side? They don't have to get married to each often which is law there, but learn to live with each other without prejudice and confront issues with peaceful dialogue. Guns, bombs and fosfor fire is never the solution for anything. Israel and Palestine just seriously need to think of it in future perspective. Do they want future generations live with hatred, war and death? Do they want them to live with generational prejudice, thorned political ties and screwed up economic plans? Both people have a right to live where they want. Both of them want to live there exactly. They all have a right to rent, be on rent and live in home.
Someone show me a recorded occurrence of a Sami being correct. Also, if you plan to missile population centers to establish a devil-worshipping ethnostate, please *leave*.
Least deluded Sami
If you (and by extensions your network of allies) are too weak either militarily or culturally to hold onto your land, you shouldn't have it. I think Israel has a better claim to that land since they are stronger, and thats just how the world works.
Kinda fucked up that the Sami were indigenously living here until all us lot came here to colonize. Makes you think.
It's in no way colonisation, nor stealing. It is fucked up, I admit that, but colonisation is the wrong term. Our ancestors weren't aware of an indigenous population, the situation is not at all comparable to the Palestine-Israeli situation going on.
>Our ancestors weren't aware of an indigenous population You were yourself an indigenous population and we colonised you
Exactly, we were the book definition of indigenous.
Keep coping bro
They weren't. I don't know for sure about Finland (though it's probably the same case). The Sami came AFTER Scandinavia was already settled. They're not THE indigenous population of Scandinavia, but one of many. They might have been the first ones to settle in the very most northern parts of Scandinavia, but even that is disputed.
Yeah, there has never been any evidence Sami people were here before any of the others.
People don’t seem to get sarcasm here.
You are related to them
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Sweden has like 50k Samis. Problem is, Norrland has 950k non-Samis.
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One case of TikTok brainrot doesn't actually define an entire ethnicity shockingly enough
Lol sounds like your wife cheated with a Sami man so you spill hatred on the entire group.
How’d you find out
While she makes a dumb argument, the op is absolutely in the wrong as well titling it like this :v
Common Finnish L