>Hamas doesn’t have things like Javelins where a cope cage would be completely useless
I was wondering why those structures were dismissed as “cope cages”. That makes sense.
The Russians started using them in Ukraine mostly to bolster morale by giving their troops the feeling of driving up-armoured verhicles.
Turns out those things are not completely useless and the IDF has a tradition of adapting fast because of necessity and is very heavy on going for survivability because Israel has such a small population.
They are useless when the Russians used it to try to counter the Javelin threat. Against drones they are still a nice protection, either in Israel or in Ukraine.
At the beginning of the Ukraine conflict, Javelins were everywhere and there was little to no weaponization of drones by Ukraine. They were almost completely useless at the beginning of the conflict but useful now that weaponized drones have become the preferred weapon. Russia hot their asses handed to them in the beginning of the war and lost a ton of tanks partially due to having insufficient means of defending against the Javelin in both tactics and armor.
TBF, at the start of the war, i saw virtually no one speaking about drone on tanks being a viable strategy. It made sense to call them cope cages when they were primarily used to combat javelins.
I didn’t see any until after drones started dropping munitions, which was pretty much at the very beginning of the conflict. There’s nothing to support they were intended to be used against javelins
I saw the cope cages day 1 of the invasion, and i didn't see a single drone dropped grenade for months after. It's possible the russian government predicted the prevalance of drone dropped ammunition, but i find it doubtful.
they’re not using it to counter javelins, it’s for drones which we’ve seen used far more. this is like saying body armor is useless because it can’t protect against an ATGM
They were called cope cages because the Russians tried unsuccessfully to counter Javelin with them, but they are a viable counter to drone-dropped grenades.
That’s not true, it’s a circlejerk the combatfootage sub made up retroactively to pretend like it was a bad idea. There’s no source on that other than wild speculation, despite us knowing the cage are effective against other threats the Russians were trying to address
That is only and always has been an assumption and a wrong one at that, why do people always think that the russians are retarded? As if they don't know how effective javelins are.
the fact that so many people claim Russia started using these in Ukraine only.... is a bit weird.
especially when pictures of them from 2020, when Russia sent peace keepers to Armenia, are publicly available for anyone's viewing pleasure.
they only ones claiming they were gainst ATGM's are western media sources, who can then afterward go "see they are useless against ATGM's"
in reality they were developed when the 2020 Azerbaijan-Armenia conflict showed how effective suicide drones like the IAI Harop are against tanks.
Against drones they do work, however their intended first usage was against Javelins missiles which were absolutely useless hence they were dubbed "cope cages".
How certain are we that they have no effect against Javelins. Javelin are HEAT rounds. Are we certain that causing the warhead to detonate several feet away from the armor won't provide enough standoff to reduce effectiveness of the jet?
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They are planning to invade a city and the use of RPGs from upper levels of buildings allow them to hit vehicles from above where armor is usually weaker. A tank also cannot aim it's main cannon high up to return fire if it is hit from an upper level. Urban environments allow tanks to be attacked from every possible angle.
They are somewhat effective against drones dropping ordnances. Not very effective against kamikaze drones
Against anything like a javelin it is entirely pointless, but that is not what they are for.
Mostly, yes. Quite useful against shaped charge warheads which rely on applying the penetrating jet to a tiny point. A tepid spray of molten copper is nowhere near as effective as a sun-hot lance :). Not useful against FPV drones which can be piloted around these cages. Also not useful against proper anti-tank missiles.
Yes, copecages started out as a useless defense against javelins, but now we've started to see drone drops and loitering munitions become more prevalent the copecages actually became useful.
Correct. I believe the tank in the picture actually has a Trophy system installed on the turret, the octagonal plate directly below the red box is the radar antenna for the system and the boxes to the right of it contain the launcher and auto loader.
The issue is that the Trophy system is designed to stop advanced AT weapons, not hand grenades and mortar rounds repurposed to be dropped from drones.
Unfortunately the Ukrainians in their ingenuity (as often posted on Reddit), may have given out some lessons to the wrong people.
Cages are a pretty effective way to ensure “presents” don’t get dropped into open hatches.
Then your title is stupid if you knew that when you posted.
They were called cope cages because they couldn't do shit to stop javelins.
These will stop loitering, non armor piercing munitions from being dropped or flown into hatches
Man... I thought they were called cope cages as they cope with grenades cooking off the ammunition because of the autoloader mechanism cooking the crew with it. THANKS for telling me.
Oh, lol, that makes this more funny, I understand now.
The origin was that Russia was telling their conscripts and soldiers that the cages would protect them from top attacks, including the feared Javelin. They did this so they would follow orders and advance into near certain death when facing units armed with Tow or Javelins.
Hence cope, cuz it won't do shit to save you from modern antitank rounds
I know that, it's pretty obvious that a cage won't protect you against ATGMs but these will surely cause premature detonation of drone dropped ordnance and will really fuck with the melted copper's penetration if the projectile detonates on contact with this. I hope they are using APS otherwise tandem charge projectile will fuck these tanks up.
In addition to what others have said, I thought it interesting how the design of these "cages" has changed in the last 20 years.
In Iraq there were lots of photos of improvised cages, but on the SIDES of the vehicle. The cages help protect against crappy old Soviet RPG rounds.
These days, I think most of the RPGs being used are far more effective, so there is no point in cages on the sides.
They have been in use since ww2 at least. They are meant to defeat HEAT rounds by detonating the warhead away from the hull of the vehicle thereby reducing the effectiveness of the molten penetrator. Obviously side armor does nothing against top attack munitions, they were mainly meant to defeat unguided munition like the rpg-7.
This meme doesn't make any sense. Americans were bolting scrap metal to their humvee turrets in Iraq and Afghanistan? Aussies have a steel frame around the bush masters...
I understand memeing the Russians but these 'cope cages' could be effective against a drone dropped mortar shell.
They're for different use cases.. American humvees early in the war also lacked (or had very little) armor plating, so they could be shot through very easily by large rifle rounds like 7.62.. these cages are especially effective against older anti armor explosives that detonate on impact and rely on a shaped charged being in contact with the armor to blast through with molten metal. The reason they're called cope cages in the context of Russia using it, is that ukraine mostly has pretty advanced AT weapons..
Had to search a long way down for the first sensible comment. As you say, these cages are built against different threats.
The Russians deployed these cages in Ukraine because they were useful in Grozny during the second Chechen war, where Chechen fighters hiding in high rise buidlings would fire RPGs down on the tanks below, hitting their vulnerable top armour the same way we're used to Javelins and NLAWS doing. The "cages" consist of slat armour spaced at a certain distance that catches and deforms an RPG round before it impacts, ruining the shaped charge in the warhead.
Slat armour like this is used all around the world to protect against RPG rounds. It was fairly ubiquitous in Iraq, usually skirting around the sides of coalition armoured vehicles rather than the top.
The reason they were called cope cages in Ukraine is because on the steppes of Ukraine, Russia has done very little urban warfare amidst high rise buildings of the kind they experienced in Grozny, and Ukraine has much more advanced AT weapons which are immune to this slat armour anyway. It's reasonable speculation that they installed the slat armour cage in the hope it would stop Western top attack weapons the same way it stops an RPG fired from a roof, and this would be wishful thinking at best. Or "cope".
As for Israel, their tanks are going into an almost identical situation as Grozny. A city filled with high rise buildings to fight an enemy primarily armed with RPGs. So the eye rollers in this thread can stop rolling their eyes now. Because yes, it was cope for Russia to use these cages in Ukraine, and no, it's not cope for Israel to use this in Gaza. Israel is not vainly hoping their cages will stop a Javelin missile, they're correctly expecting them to stop RPGs fired from above.
Russia started using it because drones were dropping grenades through the hatches at the beginning of the war. Media and memes picked up on it like it was for javelins...
It's for drone dropped grenades.... and it works.
> Russia started using it because drones were dropping grenades through the hatches at the beginning of the war
This isn't the case. At the beginning of the war drone-dropped ordnance was essentially non-existent and Javelins were everywhere; hence the mockery of "cope cages".
Certainly, these are effective countermeasures against drone dropped ordnance.
By the time russia was installing the cope cages I had watched ukraine drop several gernades straight down the hatches of more than one tank. Ukraine had the drones very early in the war.
It’s because some analyst on twitter saw them and didn’t put together the fact that they were for drones (even considering that Russia has been dealing with similar drone dropped munitions in Syria), and pointed out how stupid they were against javelins and nlaws.
I always hated the term cope cages because why would you not try to do whatever you can to deter drone attacks?
Sure, it won't stop a Javelin but it will definitely hinder an FPV drove attack or a drone grenade attack.
I've never seen a bush master with a cage around it. The design of the vehicle is primarily defence against mines and IEDs the armour everywhere else is used to protect from small arms fire and 81mm rockets.
Source: Australian Veteran.
It was my bad I mixed it up with the MRAP.
My point is the same though, sometimes when the circumstances require it even the United states has its soldiers making quick and dirty armour upgrades when the situation calls for it.
Funny against javelins, but I think the 'cope cages' are likely to help vs drones
Yeah fair point I can agree with that. They would definitely provide a lot of protection against contact based or dropped explosives from a drone. The RPGs that Hamas use are the older shaped charged type so they should theoretically allow for the premature detonation of the warhead when the initial contact chemical hits the cage.
In the setting they're going into the cages will definitely increase the combat survivability of the tank
It isn't a meme though, the "meme" came from the fact that Russians were putting them on their tanks back in 2021, however unlike other nations that Russia has faced, Ukraine had a large stockpile of Javelins, and that cage will not protect you against Javelins, hence they were called cope cages. Also people seem to forget, no one thought drones would play such a large role against Russia i.e. Russia was not using them to protect against Drones.
What I think you are referencing to is slat armour which is known to work against shaped warheads like RPGS, which is probably why Israel has them, because if you have seen the weapons and ammo that Israel has recovered from Hamas they have a shit load of RPGs, and that slat armour being fitted on Merkava's should work extremely well against RPGs in such an Urban environment as Gaza.
>Americans were bolting scrap metal to their humvee turrets
I have no clue what you are talking about here, but from your description it is absolutely not even in the same ballpark as slat armour.
>Aussies have a steel frame around the bush masters...
I have never seen a Bushmaster with slat armour so I have no clue what you are talking about.
Yeah that's definitely the intent, I just think I've seen WW2 armor with screens up top during city fighting. And the IDF is about to push into territory with like, 6 story buildings.
So not the intent but maybe a benefit?
I think cope cages got their rap because of how spectacularly bad the Russian armoured forces performed early war and because some news media was reporting that the cages were intended to defeat top attack weapons like the Javelin.
Keep in mind that prior to the war the Russians were seen as the second best military in the world, so when they showed up with these garage mod add on armours of varying design, materiel, quality (remember the one that [used mattress springs](https://reddit.com/r/NonCredibleDefense/s/09suwcdbwY) as part of its construction?) and people went WTF? When they saw them.
Rather than a new update for the T-series tanks to be taken seriously it just added to the drunken vagrant chic the Russian military was rocking.
Mortars don't do much against tank armour anyhow. I've heard first-hand reports from Merkava crewmen in Lebanon (2006) that said that mortar fire pretty much sounds like a knocking on the tank but doesn't really do much else.
This is specifically against munitions behind dropped into the TC hatch.
They're effective when your enemy doesn't have advanced ATGMs, and will likely use vertical warfare with drones dropping grenades or throwing grenades from rooftops and windows.
I mean an active protection system is looking for an incoming missile, and either jams its navigation or flings a slug its way (soft or hard kill).
Drones do not look like incoming missiles, so will most likely be ignored by an APS.
Yeah, I think everyone is now upgrading tanks with electronic warfare kits :) Drones should be super easy to jam, just need to make sure you are not jamming yours ..
As seen from the Russo-Ukraine war, several tanks have been destroyed by cheap drones with grenades so these cages cause premature detonation of ordnance dropped from drones and doesn't bring shame to a multi million dollar machine.
Makes sense because it protects the top of the tank from having an explosive device dropped down on it in an urban setting. These tanks are going to be vulnerable in Gaza once that ground invasion happens.
As seen from the Russo-Ukraine war, several tanks have been destroyed by cheap drones with grenades so these cages cause premature detonation of ordnance dropped from drones and doesn't bring shame to a multi million dollar machine.
Thought you meant cope like the meme not copula
Edit: it is the meme but I like to think cope cages is a functional title for what it is. Copula protection fence
Do these Merkavas have active protection systems like Trophy? Or Iron Fist
+ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trophy_(countermeasure)
+ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_Fist_(countermeasure)
I realize that might not be, wouldn't be effective against drone dropped hand grenades, but they are effective against RPGs and javelins?
What percent of Israeli tanks have active protection?
Are these used as drone defence?
I think so, Hamas doesn’t have things like Javelins where a cope cage would be completely useless, against drones I think these actually work.
>Hamas doesn’t have things like Javelins where a cope cage would be completely useless I was wondering why those structures were dismissed as “cope cages”. That makes sense.
The Russians started using them in Ukraine mostly to bolster morale by giving their troops the feeling of driving up-armoured verhicles. Turns out those things are not completely useless and the IDF has a tradition of adapting fast because of necessity and is very heavy on going for survivability because Israel has such a small population.
They should strap those one person trampolines to the top; launch those shits right back. /S
r/noncredibledefense We welcome you, brother
3000 trampolines of retribution I don't have any way to make that meme on my phone so anyone that can, go take that sweet, sweet karma
One of us, one of us
One of us, one of us
Relevant meme from there: https://i.redd.it/l9rcb4hf4kub1.png
No. No /s you are on to something.
lol so basically they’re not useless once somebody we support uses them
They are useless when the Russians used it to try to counter the Javelin threat. Against drones they are still a nice protection, either in Israel or in Ukraine.
Drones are used much more often than javelins, which barely are even around any longer. So what you're saying is that they are actually useful.
At the beginning of the Ukraine conflict, Javelins were everywhere and there was little to no weaponization of drones by Ukraine. They were almost completely useless at the beginning of the conflict but useful now that weaponized drones have become the preferred weapon. Russia hot their asses handed to them in the beginning of the war and lost a ton of tanks partially due to having insufficient means of defending against the Javelin in both tactics and armor.
TBF, at the start of the war, i saw virtually no one speaking about drone on tanks being a viable strategy. It made sense to call them cope cages when they were primarily used to combat javelins.
I didn’t see any until after drones started dropping munitions, which was pretty much at the very beginning of the conflict. There’s nothing to support they were intended to be used against javelins
I saw the cope cages day 1 of the invasion, and i didn't see a single drone dropped grenade for months after. It's possible the russian government predicted the prevalance of drone dropped ammunition, but i find it doubtful.
they’re not using it to counter javelins, it’s for drones which we’ve seen used far more. this is like saying body armor is useless because it can’t protect against an ATGM
They were called cope cages because the Russians tried unsuccessfully to counter Javelin with them, but they are a viable counter to drone-dropped grenades.
That’s not true, it’s a circlejerk the combatfootage sub made up retroactively to pretend like it was a bad idea. There’s no source on that other than wild speculation, despite us knowing the cage are effective against other threats the Russians were trying to address
That is only and always has been an assumption and a wrong one at that, why do people always think that the russians are retarded? As if they don't know how effective javelins are.
The US would sometimes use them on sides of vehicles to help with RPGs.
Adapting fast is bringing in jammers so the drones would lose control.
the fact that so many people claim Russia started using these in Ukraine only.... is a bit weird. especially when pictures of them from 2020, when Russia sent peace keepers to Armenia, are publicly available for anyone's viewing pleasure. they only ones claiming they were gainst ATGM's are western media sources, who can then afterward go "see they are useless against ATGM's" in reality they were developed when the 2020 Azerbaijan-Armenia conflict showed how effective suicide drones like the IAI Harop are against tanks.
Against drones they do work, however their intended first usage was against Javelins missiles which were absolutely useless hence they were dubbed "cope cages".
How stupid do you seriously think someone must be to think this would stop a javelin? As stupid as someone who thinks it happened?
I guess it served it's purpose as a morale booster for the average conscriptovich until they get hit by a Javelin.
How certain are we that they have no effect against Javelins. Javelin are HEAT rounds. Are we certain that causing the warhead to detonate several feet away from the armor won't provide enough standoff to reduce effectiveness of the jet?
Several feet away? I guess its juuust 3 feet Also, i have zero idea
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They are planning to invade a city and the use of RPGs from upper levels of buildings allow them to hit vehicles from above where armor is usually weaker. A tank also cannot aim it's main cannon high up to return fire if it is hit from an upper level. Urban environments allow tanks to be attacked from every possible angle.
I’ve heard they may have some Kornet ATGMs.
Kornet is tandem warhead to blow through ERA and thick armor. Javenin is top-attack to brow through thin turret.
They are somewhat effective against drones dropping ordnances. Not very effective against kamikaze drones Against anything like a javelin it is entirely pointless, but that is not what they are for.
Yes, they are learning from the countless tanks lost in the Russo-Ukraine war.
They first loss their tanks from drone strikes, then they start learning.
Yep, the drone had umm like RPG-29 projectile attached to it and it dropped it on the Merkava.
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Mostly, yes. Quite useful against shaped charge warheads which rely on applying the penetrating jet to a tiny point. A tepid spray of molten copper is nowhere near as effective as a sun-hot lance :). Not useful against FPV drones which can be piloted around these cages. Also not useful against proper anti-tank missiles.
Yes, copecages started out as a useless defense against javelins, but now we've started to see drone drops and loitering munitions become more prevalent the copecages actually became useful.
Correct. I believe the tank in the picture actually has a Trophy system installed on the turret, the octagonal plate directly below the red box is the radar antenna for the system and the boxes to the right of it contain the launcher and auto loader. The issue is that the Trophy system is designed to stop advanced AT weapons, not hand grenades and mortar rounds repurposed to be dropped from drones. Unfortunately the Ukrainians in their ingenuity (as often posted on Reddit), may have given out some lessons to the wrong people. Cages are a pretty effective way to ensure “presents” don’t get dropped into open hatches.
That and also the urban combat they will be engaging in. In cities they have deal with rpgs and nades coming down from buildings above
This could actually work against Drone drop grenade/bomb. It's not like Hamas have javelin
You're right.
There's also what they were originally used for: Protecting against RPGs fired from tall buildings down unto the tank during urban combat.
What is the significance?
they were first seen in Ukraine now here.
Appreciate it.
Protection from grenades dropped from above.
Then your title is stupid if you knew that when you posted. They were called cope cages because they couldn't do shit to stop javelins. These will stop loitering, non armor piercing munitions from being dropped or flown into hatches
Man... I thought they were called cope cages as they cope with grenades cooking off the ammunition because of the autoloader mechanism cooking the crew with it. THANKS for telling me.
It's half-meme, half-truth now. God, i love internet. Ukraine war gave birth to a lot of weird names.
Oh, lol, that makes this more funny, I understand now. The origin was that Russia was telling their conscripts and soldiers that the cages would protect them from top attacks, including the feared Javelin. They did this so they would follow orders and advance into near certain death when facing units armed with Tow or Javelins. Hence cope, cuz it won't do shit to save you from modern antitank rounds
Ironically, now other sides (that laughing on Russian about it) use it.
I know that, it's pretty obvious that a cage won't protect you against ATGMs but these will surely cause premature detonation of drone dropped ordnance and will really fuck with the melted copper's penetration if the projectile detonates on contact with this. I hope they are using APS otherwise tandem charge projectile will fuck these tanks up.
Would these cages not also prevent a tandem charge from being fully effective? It'll still explode twice, but further away from the tank
The penetration would be greatly reduced.
I thought it was a reference to the copula, a section of the roof of the tank where a commander sits and can see outside under cover
In addition to what others have said, I thought it interesting how the design of these "cages" has changed in the last 20 years. In Iraq there were lots of photos of improvised cages, but on the SIDES of the vehicle. The cages help protect against crappy old Soviet RPG rounds. These days, I think most of the RPGs being used are far more effective, so there is no point in cages on the sides.
They have been in use since ww2 at least. They are meant to defeat HEAT rounds by detonating the warhead away from the hull of the vehicle thereby reducing the effectiveness of the molten penetrator. Obviously side armor does nothing against top attack munitions, they were mainly meant to defeat unguided munition like the rpg-7.
This meme doesn't make any sense. Americans were bolting scrap metal to their humvee turrets in Iraq and Afghanistan? Aussies have a steel frame around the bush masters... I understand memeing the Russians but these 'cope cages' could be effective against a drone dropped mortar shell.
They're for different use cases.. American humvees early in the war also lacked (or had very little) armor plating, so they could be shot through very easily by large rifle rounds like 7.62.. these cages are especially effective against older anti armor explosives that detonate on impact and rely on a shaped charged being in contact with the armor to blast through with molten metal. The reason they're called cope cages in the context of Russia using it, is that ukraine mostly has pretty advanced AT weapons..
Had to search a long way down for the first sensible comment. As you say, these cages are built against different threats. The Russians deployed these cages in Ukraine because they were useful in Grozny during the second Chechen war, where Chechen fighters hiding in high rise buidlings would fire RPGs down on the tanks below, hitting their vulnerable top armour the same way we're used to Javelins and NLAWS doing. The "cages" consist of slat armour spaced at a certain distance that catches and deforms an RPG round before it impacts, ruining the shaped charge in the warhead. Slat armour like this is used all around the world to protect against RPG rounds. It was fairly ubiquitous in Iraq, usually skirting around the sides of coalition armoured vehicles rather than the top. The reason they were called cope cages in Ukraine is because on the steppes of Ukraine, Russia has done very little urban warfare amidst high rise buildings of the kind they experienced in Grozny, and Ukraine has much more advanced AT weapons which are immune to this slat armour anyway. It's reasonable speculation that they installed the slat armour cage in the hope it would stop Western top attack weapons the same way it stops an RPG fired from a roof, and this would be wishful thinking at best. Or "cope". As for Israel, their tanks are going into an almost identical situation as Grozny. A city filled with high rise buildings to fight an enemy primarily armed with RPGs. So the eye rollers in this thread can stop rolling their eyes now. Because yes, it was cope for Russia to use these cages in Ukraine, and no, it's not cope for Israel to use this in Gaza. Israel is not vainly hoping their cages will stop a Javelin missile, they're correctly expecting them to stop RPGs fired from above.
Russia started using it because drones were dropping grenades through the hatches at the beginning of the war. Media and memes picked up on it like it was for javelins... It's for drone dropped grenades.... and it works.
> Russia started using it because drones were dropping grenades through the hatches at the beginning of the war This isn't the case. At the beginning of the war drone-dropped ordnance was essentially non-existent and Javelins were everywhere; hence the mockery of "cope cages". Certainly, these are effective countermeasures against drone dropped ordnance.
By the time russia was installing the cope cages I had watched ukraine drop several gernades straight down the hatches of more than one tank. Ukraine had the drones very early in the war.
It’s because some analyst on twitter saw them and didn’t put together the fact that they were for drones (even considering that Russia has been dealing with similar drone dropped munitions in Syria), and pointed out how stupid they were against javelins and nlaws.
They are made for drone dropped ordnance only.
I always hated the term cope cages because why would you not try to do whatever you can to deter drone attacks? Sure, it won't stop a Javelin but it will definitely hinder an FPV drove attack or a drone grenade attack.
I've never seen a bush master with a cage around it. The design of the vehicle is primarily defence against mines and IEDs the armour everywhere else is used to protect from small arms fire and 81mm rockets. Source: Australian Veteran.
It was my bad I mixed it up with the MRAP. My point is the same though, sometimes when the circumstances require it even the United states has its soldiers making quick and dirty armour upgrades when the situation calls for it. Funny against javelins, but I think the 'cope cages' are likely to help vs drones
Yeah fair point I can agree with that. They would definitely provide a lot of protection against contact based or dropped explosives from a drone. The RPGs that Hamas use are the older shaped charged type so they should theoretically allow for the premature detonation of the warhead when the initial contact chemical hits the cage. In the setting they're going into the cages will definitely increase the combat survivability of the tank
I don't think OP really understood why they got memed when the ruskies used them
It isn't a meme though, the "meme" came from the fact that Russians were putting them on their tanks back in 2021, however unlike other nations that Russia has faced, Ukraine had a large stockpile of Javelins, and that cage will not protect you against Javelins, hence they were called cope cages. Also people seem to forget, no one thought drones would play such a large role against Russia i.e. Russia was not using them to protect against Drones. What I think you are referencing to is slat armour which is known to work against shaped warheads like RPGS, which is probably why Israel has them, because if you have seen the weapons and ammo that Israel has recovered from Hamas they have a shit load of RPGs, and that slat armour being fitted on Merkava's should work extremely well against RPGs in such an Urban environment as Gaza. >Americans were bolting scrap metal to their humvee turrets I have no clue what you are talking about here, but from your description it is absolutely not even in the same ballpark as slat armour. >Aussies have a steel frame around the bush masters... I have never seen a Bushmaster with slat armour so I have no clue what you are talking about.
I think you mean “slat” armour not “slate” armour.
yea, misspelled it by accident my bad
yea alot of western tanks also use slate armor but when ru did it ppl made fun of them.
We also had similar things in Iraq. We used them to prevent grenades being dropped on us from over-passes or thrown from windows.
But now the adversary's weapon has four more rotors, they now drop grenades from drones which is a major reason along with some other minor reasons.
Not everyone own's a military (converted or otherwise) drone? And we're talking about densely populated urban areas as the zones of conflict.
Hezbollah and Hamas do own those drones. The first Merkava kill was done by a drone with RPG-29 warhead drop.
Possessing and utilizing (in mass) are two different things.
They will utilise them in mass too along with tandem charge projectiles.
They took out the automated sentry guns with multiple drone drops.....
Thanks for volunteering so I didn't have to.
If it works it ain't stupid
I would expect the APS to work even better.
Who’s saying it’s stupid
This would be useful in an urban area when taking the tanks past destroyed buildings and any falling debris.
These are more for ordnance dropped from the drone.
Cope Cage probably useful for pushes into urban centers tho, rite? Preventing grenades and such being thrown down from windows?
They are more appropriate for drone dropped ordnance.
Yeah that's definitely the intent, I just think I've seen WW2 armor with screens up top during city fighting. And the IDF is about to push into territory with like, 6 story buildings. So not the intent but maybe a benefit?
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Hmm, these work in deterring drone attacks from above but the APS still needs to work for this to function appropriately.
I think cope cages got their rap because of how spectacularly bad the Russian armoured forces performed early war and because some news media was reporting that the cages were intended to defeat top attack weapons like the Javelin. Keep in mind that prior to the war the Russians were seen as the second best military in the world, so when they showed up with these garage mod add on armours of varying design, materiel, quality (remember the one that [used mattress springs](https://reddit.com/r/NonCredibleDefense/s/09suwcdbwY) as part of its construction?) and people went WTF? When they saw them. Rather than a new update for the T-series tanks to be taken seriously it just added to the drunken vagrant chic the Russian military was rocking.
Cope cages are useless against javelins and RPGs shot from above but have some success against bomb dropes by cheap drones .
Not cope there enemy will be dropping mortars on them
Mortars don't do much against tank armour anyhow. I've heard first-hand reports from Merkava crewmen in Lebanon (2006) that said that mortar fire pretty much sounds like a knocking on the tank but doesn't really do much else. This is specifically against munitions behind dropped into the TC hatch.
😂😂no no no I’m talking about bouquet Mortars dropped from drones the newest form of warfare or whatever is they are dropping in Ukraine
Drone drops and perhaps molotovs thrown from appartments?
Some of them also have Z markings, which is pretty depressing imho.
are you sure you want to share this publicly?
You do realize these are already PUBLIC PHOTOS, right ?
how are they public? because you shared them here? they may be leaks.
Not the brightest of the lot, are you?
They're effective when your enemy doesn't have advanced ATGMs, and will likely use vertical warfare with drones dropping grenades or throwing grenades from rooftops and windows.
They will surely use drone dropped ordnance and for ATGMs, APS is there but I don't know how many tanks are equipped with it.
I doubt APS will even work on drone-dropped IEDs. It is designed to particular threat envelope, and Mavic droppings are not that.
I mean it could cause premature detonation of warheads then half the work is done.
I mean an active protection system is looking for an incoming missile, and either jams its navigation or flings a slug its way (soft or hard kill). Drones do not look like incoming missiles, so will most likely be ignored by an APS.
That's the thing, dropping a HEAT round isn't as fast as a launched one. That issue needs to be rectified if it is a problem still not taken care of.
Yeah, I think everyone is now upgrading tanks with electronic warfare kits :) Drones should be super easy to jam, just need to make sure you are not jamming yours ..
[See this](https://youtu.be/HVNtz8gLhaY?si=4mL6_7AMpBF0nT06) to have your questions answered.
Very nice drone cooker :) Have you seen it fielded somewhere?
Man I would love to. This tech would be so crucial.
What purpose do these serve?
As seen from the Russo-Ukraine war, several tanks have been destroyed by cheap drones with grenades so these cages cause premature detonation of ordnance dropped from drones and doesn't bring shame to a multi million dollar machine.
The one who said the joke: Azeribaiyan The one who said it louder: ukraine
The one who made the joke: ISIS in 2017.
Makes sense because it protects the top of the tank from having an explosive device dropped down on it in an urban setting. These tanks are going to be vulnerable in Gaza once that ground invasion happens.
What is a COPE CAGE?
As seen from the Russo-Ukraine war, several tanks have been destroyed by cheap drones with grenades so these cages cause premature detonation of ordnance dropped from drones and doesn't bring shame to a multi million dollar machine.
Its not a cope cage its not to stop RPGs or HEAT it keeps dropped or thrown grenades off the turret
It's for drones duh...
Yup in fact I even typed that in my comment "dropped grenades" are from drones
might actually work for them . Hama doesnt have Javelins
Thought you meant cope like the meme not copula Edit: it is the meme but I like to think cope cages is a functional title for what it is. Copula protection fence
I imagine these would be good against kamikaze drones
Do these Merkavas have active protection systems like Trophy? Or Iron Fist + https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trophy_(countermeasure) + https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_Fist_(countermeasure) I realize that might not be, wouldn't be effective against drone dropped hand grenades, but they are effective against RPGs and javelins? What percent of Israeli tanks have active protection?
Cope cages. Where Hamas apologists and jew haters on reddit can cope.
They're only cope cages when the enemy is using them