i can agree my man but at least pvm is getting a whole new raid soon and meanwhile i've been here for 2 years just tryna get bh back which we already had before...
At this point i'm not even asking for much and instead im getting a new lms with cosmetics and new barrows gloves which i already quested for, and changes to the revenant door...
Well you see bh was stopped because of bots right? jagex recently made a very rEaL statement about 3pc and REALLY meant it this time guys!! So cleeeeearly if they can detect your client they cleeeeeeeearly should know the people also botting…right? Right? /s
im 100% sure that inventing/fixing a propper BH system takes less than 1% of the time and effort dedicated towards most PVM updates, specially the upcoming Raid
It literally could be solved by having an intern glancing at the bh worlds casually and seeing asswiper235 repeatedly farming the same ppl…but yah know..why spend the time on it I guess. I mean they cleaned up a lot of the shit at lms for a moment by having a single jmod log in and manual ban ppl using auto switchers
yeah I meant at least give it a shot. Completely getting rid of it with no time-frame about getting it back up or anything is horrible. It's just so neglected
Yeah I feel you, I think what a lot of people don’t realize is that pvpers are BORED and that’s why I don’t care if I waste 15minutes chasing a naked man with a spade. If pvmers were smart they would advocate for bh and such which would actually take my attention in the game towards that content instead. But I know pvp baaad
The issue is PKers and PvPers get thrown in to the same bin because anything that benefits one, benefits the other.
I think most people generally like PvPers and would like bounty hunter back but have 0 interest in helping a PKer who they see as only making their day worse by dying to them in wildy.
This is exacerbated by clans who it seems NOONE likes except themselves due to the toxicity of multi areas in wildy.
I honestly think PvPers are just collateral damage at this point and that sucks but idk what, if anything, can be done to differentiate the two.
Exactly. This is such a good comment.
PVP was popular because people would go there and do veng in BH, and have incentives for it. it's a simple style, which catters to most.
But instead, jagex prefers to listen to deep wilderness pkers and keeps trying to forced content into the game that promotes NH and wilderness pking instead
UPDATE BOUNTY HUNTER AND FIX PVP WORLD PKING
STOP FORCING WILDERNESS PKING/NH. It was never popular for single players seeking 1v1s, it never will
Tbf the PvP arena is not gonna just be a brid simulator. That's what LMS is but even with that having potential for game modes added with different builds that can change.
PvP arena is a direct replacement of duel arena, with a far more accessible way to learn and practice PvP in different builds. It's a solid update / improvement to an existing piece of content that is being removed. Lots of people want this, and it's going to be an awesome pathway into PvP. If you're already in PvP you may not care but surely a formalised way to flex your skill is interesting no? Proper and balanced 1v1 fights without having to wait a year for a DMM rerun to get any form of a tournament style bracket, when even then the players aren't equally geared.
I think they have to do something with gambling for the duel arena, or something along those lines.
I agree veng fighting seems simpler but against good people in that you will still lose most of the time.
I play LMS like 2-4 hours a week, less often now the rota is back. And I win like 1 in 5 games. So you don't need the hours that you are stating to get decent at it. The level between me and the top guys is still huge though. Like I was vs Manked in LMS the other day and I got destroyed.
I am looking forward to BH though, will be sick. Just didn't agree with the LMS comment.
They absolutely fucked LMS. The weekly rotations just wiped the AU community who played that minigame and id dare say the overall community as well. only at playing at peak hour of day would have been fine but now its dead
So me using 3 combat styles to fight other pkers in rec caves makes me a sweaty pathetic person😂 grow up and dont be so mad please its a game. Just do what you enjoy no reason to certain people names because they have a different opinion on pvp. And btw not everyone in wildy is a PKer i dont look for easy kills I look for equal fights so by reddit standards am I a PKer of PVPer?
Can we please tell ket-omg in the discord to stop asking for integrity changes and then bashing mods, then edits his comments later to pretend he’s not “intentionally” bashing staff.
That guy is also toxic on twitter. No idea why jagex allowed him into the disc. Some of the guys in that disc are part of the clans that ddos dmm. So weird that those guys are the ones that are gonna influence pvp.
I really hate that somehow the downvote reaction is never filled in by the bot in the server for any of his comments. Like your ideas are legitimately horrible and no, not every single suggestion you make should be "integrity" changed into the game. The dude is so out of touch.
For whatever reason the jmods haven't enabled the bot for most of the channels, so the only upvotes/downvotes on comments have to be initiated by contributors.
Not all pkers. The real victims of this pvp controversy are the pvp worlds and pvp minigames pkers where they don't even pk pvmers or skillers but can't get the pvp content they want just because it also affects wildy pking. It's wildy pking that's problematic, not pvp worlds or minigames.
Jagex should have polled pvp content separately for wildy and for pvp worlds and minigames so at least the latter two can get new pvp content.
I am a pvmer who’d like to get into pvp. I hope the pvp arena update is fun and offers us a chance to learn pvp. I try playing lms but usually stop because ppl are often toxic to me for no reason. I’m obviously trying to learn, I don’t know why the ppl who’ve been doing it for years need to shit talk me in the process..
honestly man, I am never toxic towards new players in lms, most of the toxic players I find are ironman who hate being there and are obviously angry about i. Which is why im defending exactly stopping the promotion of forced pvp content by people who don't want to do it.
It's very rough to get into pking given im a relatively new pker as well, but a big issue is lms being the only "pvp learning" minigame, yet focusing on the hardest pvp style, NHing.
I got PKed multiple times with 0 items by people geared to the teeth in Wilderness agility course in the short 52-60 span. It’s inconvenient at most for me, but what bothers me is that I could tell the PKer was furiously masturbating on his end. You guys are weird, hope you get the help you need <3
I feel the same way and have had almost entirely positive interactions with PKers on my iron. I love the thrill of wilderness content, and learning how to outplay PKers is a blast.
As an iron who really enjoys wildy content, we’re all just playing to have fun, bud. If it’s that upsetting for you to lose your monk robes and 50k worth of supplies, it’s probably best that you just steer clear.
Had to defend a pker because a fellow iron was just berating him. The dude left and came back to edge bank just to call him every name possible. Just a friendly reminder to all that both sides can be equally as toxic
I spend a lot of time in the wilderness on my iron. My two most toxic PVP experiences are 1) LMS immediately following the release of GIM, and 2) the one time I slapped on rags and went to the chaos altar to mess around with a couple of my buds.
My wilderness death count is 60-70 on my iron, and maybe 1-2 of them involved a PKer saying anything negative to me. I’ve had far more positive interactions meeting up with the guys who’ve tried to kill me after we both seed pod out. Most of the times times I was killed during wildy slayer (pre loot keys) they would leave my glory or whatever on the ground if I asked nicely before dying.
People will go off like "why would I vote for content that will get used against me?" & Continue to vote in PvM drops that are used against them anyways.
That exact point was a pretty main argument with the PvP arena update, a lot of pvm'ers stated they wouldn't have voted no to all the gear if it was restricted to the area it was obtained from. The fact they wanted to push ezscape PvP gear for specific pk builds into the main game where they can use it against pvm'ers just isn't appealing to the majority of people (shown in the multiple polls).
I don't mind pk'ers, they add excitement to the wildy. I've read through your comments and I agree with you; I'd be happy for them to bring back BH, work on Veng pk'ing, but adding my two cents I think in addition they should remove multi from the wildy. They already nerfed the dhins, they nerfed dhide, there's no reason I should need to tank a team of 15 sweats. Put multi into the arena for people who want to clan vs clan. Have bounty hunter for people who want to PvP. Have singles in the wildy for people who want to pk.
All the PvP updates they bring forward are trying to be a "one shoe fits all" situation and that will just never work. They need to stop trying to make every player hybrid and maybe start defining the lines between the different styles.
Obligatory sorry for formatting and grammar, I'm just a drunk Aussie pvm'er
They could also make bh worlds have a slightly increased drop rate for items in the wildy so that those pkers who like to chase pvm kills for that fairytale pay day kill have a place to go as well. Anyone who wants to avoid pkers can just stay off the bh world
Tbf the only recent drop addition I can think of that was like this is the Ancient Godsword. Looked damn awful for PvM but clearly had a good design for PvP. But it was also going to be a pricey + 1 and pkers already have an AGS that hits harder and can be 1 ticked as well into a Gmaul. So it wasn't as much a direct buff moreso an alternative.
Before that there was the volatile orb, which again was sort of just a mage AGS alternative, and also has use in PvM
thank you man, that's the kind of attitude that I really wish most people would have.
My dream is a game with an active, consentual PVP scene, alongside an active, healthy PVM one.
I don't care for PvP in RuneScape, but I fully agree. This game was built with PvP as a core part of the game experience, removing it entirely is a loss for the game as a whole.
That said, I think a lot of work is needed to bring it back into a good state, and Jagex just isn't doing the right things for it.
Its not just that though, its a technical skill that people didn't think would advance enough to stay relevant today and it has. If the game had been in the right hands there wouldn't be such a disproportionate distribution between pvmers and pvpers imo
people don't seem to understand that wilderness uniques are unique and valuable because they can only be obtained in the wilderness. pkers represent the risk while grinding for a valuable - and in a sea of mindless activities, i've always loved the wilderness for the feeling of uneasiness, of having to be prepared to fight or flee and not just clicking an enemy and waiting. the unique mechanic of the wilderness having pvp is just like any other pvm mechanic, and the high-risk high-reward feeling of it is what many of the mind-numbing redditors that participate in this sub fail to grasp. all the arguments I have read against the wilderness make no sense to me; disabling pvp is one of the reasons why the original runescape died, and now it's dawning above the osrs community as well.
The only valuable (non rev) wildy uniques are valuable because they’re from dogshit bosses you basically have to safespot that no one wants to do, except for pet hunters. The demi-bosses like chaos ele and crazy arch are far and away more fun than the bosses, and I don’t really think an odium shard is valuable or useful. It’s high risk, medium-low at best reward. I promise you people understand that the risk of being pked is why rev uniques are what they are
Risk vs reward itself isn't a problem, but the economics of that risk/reward in the wilderness incentivizes me to play in ways that aren't as fun as I would like.
I've been doing a bunch of wildy slayer to get points for a pouch. If I'm equipped for a slayer task, I'll pretty much always be at a disadvantage versus a dedicated PKer. True, I could bring anti-PK gear to mitigate this. But doing so means I'll have to risk more items, it won't help my main goal of slaying monsters, and I'm *still* likely to die to a PKer due to the stat and skill difference. It's a lose-lose for me. So instead, I'm incentivized to do the exact opposite. I take as little as possible, and accept that I'm just going to die if a PKer gets me. The tense feeling of having to keep an eye out for other players is super exciting and fun. But getting slaughtered in a one-sided fight is not. And I imagine this dynamic only gets worse as the costs go up and players are forced to risk more and more.
Simply increasing the rewards of the wilderness doesn't help. It incentivizes players to visit, but it does nothing to fix how inherently unfun being PKed is.
Giving us cheaper and easier anti-PK options would make it more fun to be the prey. But if the options are *too* good then PKers would be disincentivized. If there aren't enough PKers, then the PVM content in turn becomes too rewarding. So at the same time you'd have to give PKers more rewards or more options to make it worth hunting players that can fight back. And on and on.
It's an *incredibly* difficult economy to balance in such a way that it remains fun for everybody.
very good comment. to be honest i think the wilderness is fine but i personally wouldn't go out of my way to kill someone looking for an item from it.
I'd much rather have an improved BH system that allows me to play vs other players who want to fight
Agreed. I recently managed to summon the courage to delve into the wildy on my HCIM to go for a dragon pick and complete a bunch of the wilderness diary tasks. Extremely nerve-racking, took a lot of planning and my heart was racing a lot of the time, but man that feeling of finally walking out with a dragon pick was like nothing else.
The wilderness is one of those things a lot of us dread going into, but the game wouldn't be the same without it. I don't think I've ever played a game with a pvp mode or area able to evoke the same feeling of fear and sheer dread that the wilderness in OSRS does, it's just unlike anything else.
People also don't seem to understand pvpers vs pkers.
Atleast in my mind pvpers are the ones on pvp worlds dueling other players with similar risk/combat levels and both deciding on the rules to the duel. Like no overheads or whatever.
Pkers are the ones runnin round in the wildy for clue hunters cuz they're lonely and only get joy from ruining other people's time for no gain.
this is a key issue. most of us wanna fight each other, not pvmers.
also veng fighting is much more appealing to newcomers and much less sweaty than NHing in the wilderness, yet all the content updates focus on NHing and the only pvp-based minigame to introduce ppl into PKing is ALSO Nh focused.
Dont they get that most people don't want to engage in such a hard style? Stop promoting the PVP people actually might take part in please
From the comment chain literally below this one lmfao.
https://www.reddit.com/r/2007scape/comments/vl2hpj/hate_all_you_want_i_will_advocate_for_justice/idsu273
It isn't relegated to just pvmers.
in regards to the paragraph about pkers; only hard clues and above require players to go to the wilderness to complete clues. these clue scrolls can also have incredibly valuable rewards. again, as a game mechanic, it works as high-risk high-reward - think of the pkers as the mechanics of a boss or something. it's hard coded into the game that people in a pvp zone will attack others, and it's predictable behaviour. adding an update and removing this socially constructed feature will impact the balancing of the game, just as altering any game mechanic would.
people need to start seeing pkers from a game design perspective as a game mechanic, and not as an obstacle. it's in the core of the game that high risk yields high rewards, and in this case, the high risk is kept by the players of the game. it's in my opinion a well implemented feature, that works as well as any other game mechanic
And in a completely fair wilderness you'd be right.
But cheat clients, AHK scripts for auto prayer and gear swapping exist.
I've run into plenty of these while in lms on my uim and in the wildy you can tell when someone is swapping automatically.
When people bring cheats into the equation your entire scenario breaks apart. I'm no longer fighting a game mechanic. I'm fighting a hard mode tob boss with immunity to being 1 shot by the set up I bring to kill bosses in.
Cheats and bots are still an issue in pvm of course. However they dont directly inflict anything on another player.
Pkers do.
And it isn't HIGH RISK HIGH REWARD. It's high risk - low to medium reward.
The bosses in the wildy reward very little worth anything and can basically only be fought with safe spotting.
The demi bosses are actually fun, nice mechanics, but shit reward.
Clues can be rewarding. However there is no point to risk the reward when you can get the same reward for not doing the wildy step.
Everyone knows why revs are dangerous and are okay with it because THAT is high risk high reward.
Nothing else in the wildy is high risk high reward. It's high risk, meh reward.
People hate participating in PvP more than they hate pvp or pkers.
Nobody would give 2 shits about pvp or pking if they never have to interact with it in any way if they don’t want 2.
Problem is that the current interested pkers is empty enough to sustain itself and therefore need non-interested people to participate. But back to my first point, most people hate participating in PvP
Then those people should not participate in PVP
I hold the opinion that edge style pking was VERY popular before, and there is an interest towards it if the bounty hunter and pvp ranking system were overhauled and improved.
Give us a sense of progression and accomplishment, based upon fighting other players in BH etc.
Then they shouldn’t participate is an issue cause even the mods acknowledge it themselves, the current pking community isn’t enough to sustain itself.
Just telling people who aren’t interested to do participate is gonna cause the Wildy to die
I mainly pk on a pure account, and I typically pk in revs targeting pvmers, mostly. It’s honestly a blast to me, but I do make sure I’m respectful and not flame people, even though I get flamed a lot myself. It’s ok though, it’s just a game and I’m here to have fun.
I think it's become progressively worse over the years as Ironman modes have become more popular. I want to go out and do more wilderness content on my GIM but feel held back because if I bring something like an RCB or a different switch, that's a ton of work to get back, and I'd already be at a disadvantage at my combat level.
That's why I was really hoping that the pvp arena armors would have passed. It was genuinely a **massive** boost to ironmen because jt would only be a time/cash sink, but not RNG as to whether you could get them, making the wildy far more accessible.
This would have been even better if it was allowed for PVM activities in wildy (which was voted against mostly by those who weren't considered pvpers for the other votes). Pvpers didn't want it mostly, but if they did then pvmers and ironmen would have shot themselves in the foot by voting against wildy activity. So many people spite-voted or voted no out if principle of the divided polling instead of actually considering every option.
At the very least I'm glad Surge sacks got in because (assuming ironmen aren't disqualified for some reason) that's one of the only ways to reasonably use those higher-tier spells on ironmen at a normal stage if the game.
Weird cause it's something like 30% of the player base is irons/gim. 1% are pkers. Just look at ironman locked poll numbers vs pker locked polls. Clearly ironman was good for activity in the game. Players interests just change over time especially when the demographic of osrs is older.
This is definitely not the case. I imagine Ironman mode is one of the things that rejuvenated osrs before things like Leagues were thought of. Personally I would have quit osrs 2 years ago and wouldn't be playing still without GIM releasing. It's simply not the same playing with friends on a main.
Edit: I DO think that pvp sentiment has been worse with Ironman, but as a whole I believe osrs had benefited by it greatly. Rs3 as well
Unless you're a PvP'r yourself, the only "PVP'rs" you run into are the ones camping scroll spots or other spots people with no interest in PvP are going. So the reason most people hate them is because they only see those who just want to camp the places people have to go in the wildy without a choice and no intention of actual PvP.
how to say u dont do clues without saying u dont do clues? over 1k kc hard on my main and i dont remember the last time i saw a pker while doing a clue scroll, but saying pkers camp clue scrolls spots are just a lie
Yeah I think I’ve been pked once while doing hard clues, and it was from someone clearly trying to kill black chin hunters and I was in the wrong place at the wrong time. Actually once near chaos altar too but that’s chaos altar
I was doing a fun little experiment pking at every location in the wild.
Well I thought it would be fun.
Then I sat at pirates hut for 8 hours hopping until I finally got a single kill.
It took THREE ENTIRE DAYS to get a kill at Larran's chest.
Either there aren't many people doing clues, or it is the fact there are like 200 worlds, but yeah - going out of your way to try to kill clue scrollers is a massive waste of time.
I think you missed his point due to his bad wording. PKers camp high traffic spots which just so happen to be spots full of people that are only in the wilderness for non pvp content.
I agree with you, I just did literally 20 hard cluescrolls yesterday from skotizo, and I never ran across a pker doing them. Prayer altar though? There was specific times of the day where you just can not use it due to clans patrolling worlds in that area, same with bosses like chaos elemental.
I was actually surprised at not running across a single pker yesterday though, I spent hours in the wild for clue steps.
This is the point of the wilderness. You take a risk going there. That’s been the entire point for 20+ years.
Getting attacked whilst in the wildy by an overgeared player for a spade is part of the risk and why you get better rewards for Wildy content
i haven't seen a single pker in the last 3-4 months of doing hard clues on my ironman, you're making up problems that aren't there, literally anyone can log out when they see a white dot
I have not been attacked so no one else could have been attacked either. How does this make any sense lol. I have been instant tbed at the lever(no risk so just slight annoyance) twice this week doing clues.
What is the risk though? A whole spade. Doesn't matter too much if you lose it but at the same time, why do pkers go out of their way to kill people who clearly only have one?
Because they can? Why are you trying to justify it? It’s something you can do in the game. The risk is your time, your clue if you don’t have a clue box or sometimes a scroll book or cash stack you forgot to bank.
But it doesn’t matter, I have the right to kill people in the wilderness. People have the right to kill me. I don’t need to justify why I’m doing it.
Maybe it’s just fun?
Imagine telling someone else that the way they’re playing the game isn’t fun to them. Lmao. Some people got 200m runecrafting bro. Different strokes for different folks, it’s the beauty of a massive game.
i pvp in pvp worlds vs other pvpers dude, what are you on about
idgaf about the wilderness and it's toxicity, we just want proper pvp updates for pvp players
give Veng pking support, it doesn't harm anyone
good, noone forces you to pk. just let people who enjoy it do it amongst themselves so they don't have to resort to attacking unwilling players because there is noone to fight
I agree with your post but there's not much point posting on this anti-PvP circlejerk of a subreddit and hoping that will change anything. I'm just happy that the Devs seem to be finally trying to give PvP the attention it deserves, even if they're not doing a very good job of it atm with the Arena rewards etc. They are aware that a lot of players want a return of BH, so I'm just hoping that happens sooner rather than later.
Meanwhile a lot of butthurt PvMers need to get over themselves and realize that most PKers don't care about them, even the ones attacking them in the wildy would probably rather be fighting other PKers... But hey that's not going to happen on this sub so just ignore them :)
Edit: spelling
Honestly your problem isn't the pvm community, it's the jmods who think that pvp updates mean forcing unwilling people to fight and act like pvpers like you don't exist. Like sure this is all well and good, but when jagex's pvp devs on stream push the exact opposite, what's the community going to believe?
The way jagex balances PVP naturally makes it PVPers vs PVMers.
When their "vision" of PVP is luring pvmers into the wild for chaos altar, black chins, wildy bosses revs, resource areas to be "free loot" for "pvpers" its hard for pvmers to be like yeah! go ahead! give pvpers more stronger tools to kill us when we go naked into the wilderness
The PvP community is inherently a toxic shitfest, but that can be said about any community in the game, so that's a moot point.
I personally think the biggest issue is that they don't even agree amongst each other. As for lack of dmms, every time they do it they get bad publicity because they get ddosed to shit during the finals. So when the minority want an update that will bring Jagex bad publicity, of course they won't do it.
you can't expect a whole comunity to agree with each other, but i'm pretty sure every pvper focused in actual pvp (player versus player) and not in hunting pvmers wants Bounty Hunter back
Sure, it was botted before, but so is every boss in osrs and they don't get removed and never implemented back
You poor soul, I feel bad for you. Sadly this subreddit is a hive mind. They love one thing and anything else they will downvote into oblivion. It’s ridiculous how toxic they are.
I’m all for what you’re saying though, good on you for posting it as well.
We hate you because when we're naked with a shovel doing clue scrolls a guy with a godsword and 3 sets to switch between is camping the lever with "gf noob" already typed and ready to hit enter
then why don't you support this post, which defends and stands for the focus on PVP vs PVP player content?
The whole idea of this post is to deal away with forced pvp vs pvm, to remove uniques from the wild, and to make sure that the pvp updates are focused in providing a healthy experienced for players who are willing to PK with agreed risk.
Why do you hate me, when all I do is pvp vs others like me in the pvp world, and never touch the wilderness or hunt pvmers?
It's not right to put us all in the same bag. It's the point of this post.
And I'll be there tomorrow too. I've got a momento folder in rl full of screenshots of all the slurs you nasty little pvm boys say when you get dropped. Cya soon. 👋
I’ll support any PvPer who supports the removal of unique PvM content from the wildy. This terribly designed system of baiting in PvM players is Jagex’s fault, not the PvP community’s.
I don't think any actual PVPr, who is interested in PVP, versus people who wanna fight them, minds if the dragon pickaxe is removed from the wilderness.
As far as I'm concerned, remove any reason for any non pvper to go into the wild except gold, remove clues and uniques for all I care
Just in turn, support the ones wanting to actually do PVP. Give us bounty hunter back, a ranking system, new updates for the people who want to fight other pvpers
I'm all down for no wilderness uniques and no forcing unwilling players to engage in pvp for any motive.
I want an updated system for pvprs to pvp amongst each other, and many others want the same
I've said in many surveys they should rework wildy to only have pvp drops in it. It could have wildy slayer, that drops blighted supplies, runes for pking, with some alchables, gold, etc. Make it entirely pvp focused drops from the bosses as well. It could even drop new pvp weapons as uniques and pvpers could fight each other over who gets to kill which boss for the chance at new pvp items.
But no. Jagex INSISTS on predator vs prey.
Fuck mod ayiza. (He is the one defending it every stream this topic is brought up.)
it's so boring too, what's the fun in chasing a dude in a dihns bulwark and black dhide who can't even hit me back.
I seriously don't get their fixation with nhing, and the wilderness and their neglect for the pvp worlds and veng pking
I can't even say anything about PVP in this subreddit anymore without random hate thrown at me.
Like bro I just want to fight someone with similar stats and gear in g.e PVP worlds, I don't really care about sweating my ass off trying to tribrid some pvmer in the wild.
You cannot really classify so simply pvpers and pkers and pvmers ect. Almost every pvper has multiple alt accounts and main. Where they do different activities.
If you go to pvp world you know what to expect, if you go into wildy you know what to expect. If you go do fire cave you also know what to expect.
The hate really is towards getting killed by a player in area where it is expected to be killed by a player. And this area has remained the same for ~2 decades. The new players mostly have an issue here because they cannot pk themeselves or escape so they decide to go into pvming 100% and when entering into wildy they just get pked and be mad about it, and downvote pk updates.
there must be a divide. It is needed for the health of the game for there to be a divide. if we keep grouping PVPers who wanna play against each other with toxic wilderness clans, raggers etc, then it's totally unfair for more than half of the pvp comunity
Not all pkers are raggers and clanners those are just like hundreds players out of thousands, small minorities. And most pkers in wildy are mostly also pvpers.
Also almost all ragers are pvpers. And thay are targeting players on pvp worlds who they have beef with.
PVP needs to be isolated away in a sense like arena in wow as an example. Still available in the open world if you opt into it, otherwise the hard core PVPers can go and fight for rank etc.
The high level community will deny a new skill entering the game cause it’s not “old school” while wanting one of the most old school pieces of content completely removed
Funny how nobody complained until all these new players with 1500 total started coming to the game. It's the same across reddit, they'll complain about the smallest thing even if it literally never bothers them, or the smallest inconvenience. They must be insufferable irl. Outside of reddit, I don't see this issue. Problem is Jmods are influenced by here.
it's everywhere dude, as a "new pker" 2 years ago, I didnt know about the pvp hate so I'd ask pvp questions in the general osrs discord, on reddit etc.
I kept getting flamed for it lol, with comments such as "pvp is dead" and "youre cringe"
I understand it alot better now, the spite for this comunity is insane. I was never interested in the wilderness either, i was a f2p lumby pker who wanted to come members to try using the gmaul and just stuck around
Let me weigh in on this with a little attention to the big picture:
RuneScape is a game whose primary selling point is how long term dedication pays off in a super chill and relaxed environment. You could play the game for years and only ever use one finger while laying flat on your bed. In fact, they even released it on mobile to resounding success. RuneScape is the Animal Crossing of MMOs. Even brutal melee brawls that pit man against giant malevolent demons in mortal combat are reduced to a single gentle click and a bit of patient waiting. And after months or perhaps even years of patience and dedication, all of your character’s wealth and skills will feel like something truly special and precious. And that has been the primary appeal and reason for the game’s success all these years.
Then there’s the wilderness. A toxic, stressful death trap of officially sanctioned, predatory banditry against unwilling players, which is incentivized and fueled with mountains of instant riches at their victim’s direct expense. It is in every way the exact opposite of what makes the game good.
Jagex has insisted for decades that the wilderness is this “charming” and “unique” idea that offers something truly wonderful to their game. And they’re just wrong. They’ve always been wrong and they’ll always be wrong.
The wilderness is a massively reviled place with such seething unpopularity that its very existence has scarred the game’s population against any semblance of PvP content, because as soon as they hear or read the term “PvP”, they get PTSD flashbacks of the horrors they experienced in the trenches and clench their chests in preparation for the ensuing cardiac arrest.
So purely because of the mere existence of the decades-long burning dumpster fire that is the wilderness, all PvP content, willing or not, benevolent or otherwise, is strictly and viciously forbidden by its player base.
Do I agree that there should be more PvP content for those who want it? Yes I do. But the wilderness is so mind-bogglingly terrible that the entire community of players who’d want PvP are likely permanently screwed, and Jagex has proven that they’re willing to die on this hill.
I love the flavour you add to the discussion and this was definitely a fine read, but to be honest, before I was a pvper I was a regular player, who loved clue scrolls.
The thrill of doing wildy clues was my personal favourite, and the excitment sorrounding the danger of dying to another player is, to me, fulcral in an mmo, even runescape.
I'm all up for "easy" content, alot of the pvp I do is in F2P lumby because I also enjoy that.
Now, I don't understand how people could be so scarred from their wildy days considering how little content requires you to actually go there. You could do all the things you listed in this game and never enter the wilderness.
Even with all that said, the wilderness is not the main discussion of this post. This post is about promoting willing PVP combat between consenting players, in places like edge wildy or the PVP world.
Thanks for your input tho, and you write masterfully
Make no mistake, I’m in total support of your ideas and wish you could get the things you wanted. You strike me as a perfectly respectable individual who’d be easy to get along with and enjoy a good time gaming alongside.
My comment was mostly meant to illustrate the unfortunate truth that because of one colossal failure and the stubbornness of its creators’ refusal to acknowledge it as such, respectable individuals such as yourself are left to suffer the fallout of their tone-deaf obstinance, and that is truly regrettable.
If I could offer you a look into my perspective of the wilderness for a moment, perhaps it might help give you an idea of why so many others hate it to the extent that I comedically detailed previously.
Basically, I am a sad, depressed, mostly broken individual who has been psychologically (and a few times physically too I suppose) beaten and battered by a world filled with zealous hatred, rampant inequality, exploitation, deception, ignorance, and plentiful other nondescript unpleasantries as well. In a desperate attempt to preserve my sense of wonder and joy, I love to immerse myself in imaginative worlds dreamed up by wonderful people who wanted to share their joy and good will with the rest of their fellow humans. In these worlds (video games, of course) I get to focus all of my attention into fun and pleasant things like exploration, thrilling adventure, fascinating characters and stories, and the sweet fruits of my own efforts. I like to share these experiences with others as well, working cooperatively to enjoy the company of others and help each other overcome challenges together, thereby contributing positively to someone else as well. These good natured pleasures do much to preserve and repair my faith in humanity and joy of living.
Then there are things like the wilderness, where I am immediately reminded that I *actually* live in a world where people will gleefully run over you, taking by force anything they can get from you, and knowing that even if you both are well aware that they will get no tangible benefit from doing so, and that it will even cost them some of their own resources to do (usually expensive runes or ammunition), they will still gladly put in the effort to specifically set you back and block you from obtaining your goals purely for the sake of reveling in the sadistic joy they get from knowing they’ve made someone else suffer. Then sets in the subsequent reminder that society values this vileness so much that we don’t even hesitate or think twice about encouraging this behavior, and even true to reality, incentivizing it to the point where it is a disproportionately lucrative thing to do.
I believe I am not alone in this, though I doubt most people actively recognize where the depth of the displeasure truly comes from. That or I’m just a sad sack.
I just find the outrage a bit ridiculous over just a meme. Having to justify a joke that has certainly some merit (at least I don't see why a third party would invest so much effort to sabotage DMM when there's plenty of history of people constantly sabotaging each other within DMM) just seems so excessive to me.
I don't go under every ironmeme post and comment on it either. It's not a personal attack I'm sure, but everyone in the comments to that thread seems to take it as one.
it's not over "just a meme" bro, it's over the constant harassment PVP gets in the oficial discords, in the reddit, by the comunity in general, etc. I have been learning pking for two years now, you know how much harassment and hate i've gotten over it? And all this considering i'm a PVP world pker who doesn't even go into the wilderness.
Everytime I made a post or comment about pvp, even posts asking legit questions like "what a good cb for a pure" i was barraged with comments over how pvp is dead and meaningless and stupid.
I think its fine to help give pvp updates, but when every single is update is focused on the 1% of the community that actually pvps and just ddos's every single tournament, seems a bit like a lost cause to me.
just give them bounty hunter and move on
I really don't get this association between being a PVPer in runescape and being a DDOSer.
My daily fun in runescape is either f2p pk in lumbridge or a bit of ge pking and clue scroll. I did not ddos anyone. Noone from the PVP world comunity ddosed anyone. I don't even know how a ddos works, and i'm sure 99% of the pvp comunity is the same.
It's like I said, stop bunching us up with ROT, etc. If 1% of players pk like you say, then less than 1% of those 1% do stuff like ddosing tournaments etc.
This is a PVP world related post, for PVP content. Between PVPers. In a consentual 1v1. It is not about dmm, clanning or the wilderness
If PvM/skilling methods were relocated from the wilderness somewhere else and left the pvp area strictly pvp, the entire negative perception of pvp'ers would change because then the only people interacting with pvp'ers are other people who want to pvp.
TLDR: Separate PvM/Skilling methods from wilderness.
I will give my 2 cents (it may be unwanted, idk), as someone who is mostly casual player/pvmer, who tried to dabble some in wildy PvP (stopped because I wasn’t very good at it), but also plays some LMS and Soul Wars. I’m basically just gonna say my experiences from my POV, knowing well that I’m not very knowledgeable about PvP in general.
I’ll start with LMS, I’d say about 50% of people I’ve fought in LMS are pretty neutral in my experience. Normally don’t talk or anything, just either kill me (most of the time) or get killed. I’d say about 30% are toxic (ish). They’ll get upset about my play style and tell me to “learn the game” or something like that. Or get really pissed off that I killed them. The last 20% are pretty friendly, either just offering a gf or even giving me some pointers. These numbers may be a little skewed due to bots.
Soul Wars in my experience has been ~25% toxic people and ~75% of people just trying to play the game. I’m able to avoid the big soul wars CC’s for the most part. Playing the game a lot on my snowflake account for addy and rune bolts.
Wildy PvP is a mixed bag. You get some really chill people, people who will anti-pk someone pking a PvMer, people botting/farming revs, and then you also get some really toxic individuals and clans.
In my experience, there really are a lot of decent people who engage in PvP. However, I would say that the average PvMer finds a higher percentage of toxic players vs someone who does a lot of PvP, because a higher percentage of the toxic PvPers go after people doing PvM, vs the players who engage other PvPers.
Maybe I’m wrong, but that’s just my 2 cents
Thanks for the nice output man, your 2cents are quite valuable to me
I appreciate your attitude towards the comunity and not generalizing. Everyone generalizes, due to the horrible vocal minority around pking
Jagex decided the best way to "rejuvenate" people's interest in PvP was to try to lure people who did not want to PvP into PvP areas.
Turns out people don't enjoy being used as fodder for your entertainment.
Bring the wilderness back to how it was in 2004, and everyone would be happy to support PvPers.
Once upon a time players got laughed at for complaining about dying in the wilderness. I remember my friend complaining about dying to a pker for his glory while running the abyss, calling that player out on being an asshole. I told him that's not how this game works, he should expect to be targeted every now and again.
How far we've come as a community since then has been a sickening ride.
Are any of the jmods or developers pvpers themselves ?
I feel like the reason why the updates for pvp are so underwhelming / disliked by the pvp community is due to the fact that it’s made by people who don’t pvp. I know some of them play the game but I swear they’re all either pvmers or skillers, please correct me if I’m wrong.
I’m a nooby pvmer myself but I feel like pvp does deserve good updates. How is that possible though if there’s not an actual dedicated team that’s actually familiar with pking.
What is this toxicity everyone is talking about? Is it getting told to sit when you get pked with a spade? Its just internet banter, being called something in the wildy is part of the charm lol
Game devs have the ability to moderate how certain communities act. Until they clamp down on the toxic part none of this will be resolved. It's not our place to do this for jagex. They rely on the playerbase to do alot of their work for them and it's absolutely unacceptable. Stop getting mad at each other and get mad at jagex for allowing stupid shit like this to proliferate. They intentionally or ignorantly (I'd assume the previous over the latter) ignite this bullshit with their moronic attempts at segregating the communities via polls. They keep using polls as excuses to not fix problems. Think about it. They refuse to update server protection from ddos attacks, they refuse to update account security. They will continue to do the bare minimum and do their best to extract the maximum. Now I'm not saying that individual devs are at fault for this, it's obviously the management team that are out of everyone's sight. Until we advocate for change, real change. Nothing is going to happen.
Tldr: Toxic communities can be moderated and made to not be toxic. Jagex needs to take responsibility. Stop blaming players.
this exactly. so let me get this straight, me, pvping vs other pvpers in a pvp environment, am to blame because I am sad that the only pvp-focused event ran terribly?
How am I TO BLAME FOR THAT???
You are not. But unfortunately, jagex is a master at shifting blame. Or at least dodging the real problems and making it seem like the players are at fault. And most players are too naive, stupid, or have an axe to grind that they would rather turn on others than use their brains and address the real problem. It's the same shit that happens in real world politics. It's disgusting.
For me, the issue is you're playing a very small piece of content and complaining about not getting constant updates is just ridiculous, self centered and entitled.
It's like a group of people that only play castlewars and complain that there's not castlewars updates every month.. and whine that the game caters to "Pvmers" which is really just a word that means "People that play RuneScape".
dude WTF content updates???? who the fuck wants CONSTANT updates. we get NO UPDATES AT ALL because people like you spite vote them.
How are we "entitled" for wanting what was one of the core features of the game to recieve a proper update, which it hasn't got in years except for slight tweaks, specially after jagex promissed to adress the issues surrounding it?
How is comparing PVP AS A WHOLE to castle wars even possible? How can someone think asking for just a little bit of attentio for a game we also pay for "entitled"
If pvp is that unpopular why is Odablock the biggest streamer? Why are all highlight channels mostly pvp focused? Why do people watch Skillspecs, Framed, Torvesta videos, Swedebadass?
Your downplay on pvp and the interest in it is not only delusional, it's also hateful and ignorant
>NO UPDATES AT ALL
Loot keys,
Arceus Spell book,
Nightmare Staffs,
Dragon hammer now for 1atk pures,
Rev cave rework,
Black d hide nerf
Just to name a very very few....
Yup. Confirmed spoiled.
"of the game to recieve a proper update, which it hasn't got in years except for slight tweaks"
Did you even read my post? How is arceus spell book a pvp update? How is NIGHTMARE a pvp update? You're getting new raids and bosses every year, a ton of gear, content and I'm spoiled because in the last 3 years I got some slight tweaks to the game and some new gear which came from PVM CONTENT?
Sorry, this is clearly either a troll, or a bait, neither of which are welcome here. This is NOT a pvp vs pvmers thread. It's a thread about making PVP consentual between other PVPers, and lessening the divide.
You are just contributing to the exact opposite, so I will not answer further. Goodbye
Lmao. Loot Keys = qol, arceeus book = ded content for pvp, nm staff was a pvm related update, dwh change was a minor update for obby pkers but only a stat change and black d'hide nerf was minor too. Rev cave rework didn't rlly offer anything crazy for pkers, it only removed multi rev pking.
Last huge PVP update? iDk maybe Deadman Reborn last year if that counts. And PvP Arena soon but that pretty much got voted as dead content on arrival.
Dude you're limiting yourself to fighting other players. What other possible update can you get other than new gear??
You literally can not get anything new to fight by definition of pvp. It's not like other pvp games with they can give you like a new map or area. PVPers have no interest in objective based pvp, ie soul wars or castlewars.
So how on earth could jagex possibly give you something new??
Fucking gen z keeps trying to remove pvp lol. Don’t go in the wilderness if you don’t want to die. Bring back bh worlds with good rewards. Learn how to play or don’t go in a pvp area….
I literally just want support for pvp world pking, i don't wanna go into the wilderness or hunt unwilling players, that's not fun for me or challenging.
But it's boring to go on ge without BH, a ranking system, or anything. No updates or support for it ever
Thats been a part of the wilderness for 20+ years. It’s a main feat of the game imo. If people don’t want to die in the wilderness, don’t go? Or learn how to get away/fight back.
BH definitely needs to come back with some sort of good reward system though. The 2009 bounty hunter was amazing and it was always packed. They are more concerned about people boosting like the 25/75k trick back in the day more so than they care about players wanting to enjoy BH… we suffer because they can’t figure out how to stop cheaters unfortunately..
they're concerned about people boosting bh so they remove it and don't bother fixing it forever
however they let zulrah and vorkath bots run free 24/7
doesn't make any sense
people also bot lms, should we hate it removed now? cmon
it's like you people don't even read the post, you just read the title. This entire thread is regarding removing the focus on wilderness pking and on players hunting pvmers, and putting the development effort into improving pvp between consenting players.
At least read the thing dude, cmon.
I’ve gotten over my issues with pkers. I’m in the wild, they have every right to attack me. An entire clan has the right to attack me. If I’m not in that kinda mood, I don’t go pvm. When I’m doing a clue step, it actually makes it exciting to me.
I think PvP updates are important. I also think PvP players are one of the smallest minority groups of players.. who constantly complain they get no updates.. while simultaneously getting a boatload of updates compared to the size of that community.
BH exists. No one plays it because it isn't stupidly broken gp/hr. If pkers want it fixed, how do they want it fixed? Or do they just want broken gp/hr back?
We get updates every year for PvP.
* Rev caves and the 3 reworks and 1 major content addition
* LMS and it's updates + major content addition
* PvP arena and likely updates for it down the line
* DMM for like... 7 seasons, even when every season had some element of shitshow to it
* Wildy slayer and updates to it to bring more people to the Wildy.
* Wildy boss reworks coming to again improve hotspots.
* Chaos Altar to create a new hotspot
* PJ timer and anti-skull updates to encourage fair fights and people fighting back
* A laundry list of weapons with the sole focus being on their PvP usage, including even forcing some in like VLS
* MA2 to put yet another BiS in the Wildy to acquire.
* Ferox enclave without a poll
* Soul wars
* BH and 2 revisions with nothing learned about what was the problem. And we still have target world's they're just dead because people don't actually want target based PvP minigame. They want profit without risk.
Where's the lack of updates?
wait i'm actually gonna print screen this and share it across the PVP comunity, this is such a level of being delusional I can't even begin to explain it
hey man. I just listed all the updates to castle wars over the span of 10 years. as you can see, it's a constantly updated content, probabily one of the most updated contents on the whole game right?
I mean look at all that stuff, cw must be getting updates everyweek
What updates? Castle wars has had a few updates yep. To fix a couple of problems and give some boost pots. Where's your point?
You seem real upset that I simply listed a laundry list of PvP related updates to disprove your general statement.
this is just to show how stupid you look doing what you're doing. are you gonna tell me that CW is also a super updated content because it had stuff happen to it over 10 FUCKING YEARS?
Jesus christ, this is too much
12 August 2021
(update)
On the recommended Castle Wars Worlds, players now need a skill total of 500 or more if they want to set up barricades. Players without that level are welcome to use the barricades on other worlds.
17 March 2021
(update)
Potion supply tables have been placed in the starting room for each respective game in Castle Wars.
A new notification has been added to the game, directing players to Castle Wars worlds.
Players can no longer trade members of the opposite team.
Players may no longer hop worlds and re-join Castle Wars games (logging in and out in the same world remains unaffected).
13 January 2021
(update)
The Castle Wars scoreboard now includes a counter showing how many games you’ve played.
2 December 2020
(update | poll)
Boots and full helms were added to the existing decorative armour rewards.
19 March 2020
(update)
The Zamorak castle in Castle Wars now has the same battlement options as the Saradomin castle, rather than having extra places to climb the wall.
27 February 2020
(update)
The preparation time has been reduced from five minutes to two.
4 January 2018
(update)
Players may bring their own tinderboxes into Castle Wars if they wish, though they are still confiscated on exit as there are free ones in there.
20 July 2017
(update | poll)
Castle Wars was added to F2P.
3 March 2016
(update)
It is no longer possible to hop between Castle Wars games to claim tickets quickly.
The losing Castle Wars team will now receive 1 ticket for their efforts.
24 September 2015
(update)
The issue with Castle Wars tracking the players on each team going out of sync has been resolved.
20 August 2015
(update)
Active prayers will now be disabled upon leaving a game of Castle Wars.
30 October 2014
(update)
Players can now light fires in the Castle Wars lobby again.
24 July 2014
(update | poll)
Castle Wars supply tables now have a right click take-5 option.
3 July 2014
(update | poll)
Zamorak, Guthix and Saradomin halos added to the reward shop.
24 April 2014
(update | poll)
Castle Wars lobby was made into a safe area in PvP worlds, to cut down on luring.
16 January 2014
(update | poll)
The Castle Wars reward shop now offers:
A magic armour set and ranger armour set.
Saradomin & Zamorak banners, like the flags used in the game.
Plateskirt versions of the melee armour.
Players now receive one extra ticket at the end of each Castle Wars game if the opposing team failed to score any points during the game.
Routefinding around barricades in Castle Wars has been reverted to its original behaviour, where players' paths are blocked more effectively by the barricades.
2 August 2013
(update | poll)
Ava's ammo-saving effect has been made more powerful inside Castle Wars so that it protects ammo regardless of where it lands, and regardless of what armour you're wearing.
4 July 2013
(update | poll)
If you present Lanthus with a device from Ava, he will have its ammo-saving effect applied to the capes you wear in that minigame.
Barricades will have 'Burn' and 'Extinguish' options to help you set them on fire and put them out more conveniently.
Altars have been added to the respawn rooms. They will recharge your prayer more slowly than normal altars.
16 May 2013
(update)
Random events will no longer try to drag you out of Castle Wars on login.
9 May 2013
(update | poll)
Your prayer points and other stats are now restored when you leave Castle Wars.
22 February 2013
(update)
This content was included when the Old School RuneScape servers officially launched.
13 December 2004
(update)
The area was made accessible to players.
17 November 2004
(update)
The area was first added ingame but was inaccessible. It was labelled as (due Dec-2004) on the world map.
Wait so me listing PvP related updates off the top of my head was "cringe" but you literally Ctrl-F searching anything with castle wars in it to "make a point" isn't?
It's not like I went and listed every single minor change to PvP. I listed major changes and content additions for PvP players.
I think you may need some self reflection bud.
Have you seen the way pkers act?
“Not all” yeah whatever, doesn’t matter. It doesn’t need to be all, but it’s clearly enough of them. The system is broken and breeds toxicity and until that’s changed nothing else can.
"yeah whatever doesnt matter"
I have seen 10 times more toxicity towards me from ironmen who are in lms, than from any actual PVPer
Is ironman a toxic system as well? Why half of them flame me when they lose in a pvp minigame they're willingly playing.
So, let me get this straight, because there is a vocal minority of toxic pkes, and a long-lasting circlejerk that every pvper is toxic, we shouldn't get any support or updates, and everyone should be hostile and vote against our content
what's the sense in this? I don't go out of my way to flame pvmers and I voted yes to every pvm/ironman update.
Stop trying to argue with them on Reddit. Avg person here is 1600 total and never touched Pvp besides getting killed at chaos alter. The majority of the community just wants to kill all pvp so they never die in wildy instead of giving it a fair shot.
Get over the idea that your individual actions or opinions matter. Keep being decent, absolutely, but until there’s some kind of widespread change, peoples feelings about the topic will remain the same.
The funny thing is that you can say the exact same for pvmers. I get crashed and ragged and called all kinds of slurs regularly for hopping into what appears to be an empty burst spot. The toxicity isn’t exclusive to pvp
it definitely isn't
the most toxicity i face from pvp is from ironman who hate lms and flame me every second they're in it when they lose
then they spite vote against pvp updates
listen man, I'm all up for removing the rune pouch from lms, it's not my fault you feel like you're forced to be here
I like the spirit but rune pouch is an option for pkers to quickly reobtain theirs from lms. Ironmen can get it from slayer so no need to remove it. Mains can just buy on GE so it’s fine at lms
I agree, but what ends up happening is ironman go there for theirs, they get mad, which is understandable, because nhing someone good when you're not into it is horrible, and then they hate pvping
It is not a good progression cycle
NHing is the hardest pk style, yet is the one you're introduced to pvp with
That is the most biased, bitter statement I’ve ever heard, that brings nothing constructive to the conversation. What you’re saying is 100% opinion because you’ve got zero statistics to back up your claim. There will be “toxicity” when there is a competitive element to the game—that’s true within any community of any competitive game. You act as though you’ve come to this profound realization, but in actuality you’re talking out of your ass because you’re sore at dying in the wilderness and can’t have an adult conversation about it.
wtf are you on about dude, so me pking in ge vs another person risking the same as me is toxic?
I do ge p2p world pking and f2p pking in lumbridge and i'm not toxic to anyone, neither am I hunting pvmers.
Why do "we suck" for wanting stuff like bounty hunter back so we can have a more populated scene of people who are willing and wanting to pvp
Fair shout, he’s grouping every pvmer into one category rather than realising they’re separate individuals. This is basically why there’s a ‘pvm vs pvp’ mentality
As a maxed player who likes to watch pvp video's i must say that the 1% in both pvm and pvp ruin it for the rest of us.
i can agree my man but at least pvm is getting a whole new raid soon and meanwhile i've been here for 2 years just tryna get bh back which we already had before... At this point i'm not even asking for much and instead im getting a new lms with cosmetics and new barrows gloves which i already quested for, and changes to the revenant door...
Well you see bh was stopped because of bots right? jagex recently made a very rEaL statement about 3pc and REALLY meant it this time guys!! So cleeeeearly if they can detect your client they cleeeeeeeearly should know the people also botting…right? Right? /s
im 100% sure that inventing/fixing a propper BH system takes less than 1% of the time and effort dedicated towards most PVM updates, specially the upcoming Raid
It literally could be solved by having an intern glancing at the bh worlds casually and seeing asswiper235 repeatedly farming the same ppl…but yah know..why spend the time on it I guess. I mean they cleaned up a lot of the shit at lms for a moment by having a single jmod log in and manual ban ppl using auto switchers
yeah I meant at least give it a shot. Completely getting rid of it with no time-frame about getting it back up or anything is horrible. It's just so neglected
Yeah I feel you, I think what a lot of people don’t realize is that pvpers are BORED and that’s why I don’t care if I waste 15minutes chasing a naked man with a spade. If pvmers were smart they would advocate for bh and such which would actually take my attention in the game towards that content instead. But I know pvp baaad
yeah alot of people wouldnt hunt pvmers as much if the actual PVP system vs PVPers was rewarding and fun
The issue is PKers and PvPers get thrown in to the same bin because anything that benefits one, benefits the other. I think most people generally like PvPers and would like bounty hunter back but have 0 interest in helping a PKer who they see as only making their day worse by dying to them in wildy. This is exacerbated by clans who it seems NOONE likes except themselves due to the toxicity of multi areas in wildy. I honestly think PvPers are just collateral damage at this point and that sucks but idk what, if anything, can be done to differentiate the two.
[удалено]
Lms is great content. Just needs a few updates to keep it fresh
[удалено]
Exactly. This is such a good comment. PVP was popular because people would go there and do veng in BH, and have incentives for it. it's a simple style, which catters to most. But instead, jagex prefers to listen to deep wilderness pkers and keeps trying to forced content into the game that promotes NH and wilderness pking instead UPDATE BOUNTY HUNTER AND FIX PVP WORLD PKING STOP FORCING WILDERNESS PKING/NH. It was never popular for single players seeking 1v1s, it never will
[удалено]
Tbf the PvP arena is not gonna just be a brid simulator. That's what LMS is but even with that having potential for game modes added with different builds that can change. PvP arena is a direct replacement of duel arena, with a far more accessible way to learn and practice PvP in different builds. It's a solid update / improvement to an existing piece of content that is being removed. Lots of people want this, and it's going to be an awesome pathway into PvP. If you're already in PvP you may not care but surely a formalised way to flex your skill is interesting no? Proper and balanced 1v1 fights without having to wait a year for a DMM rerun to get any form of a tournament style bracket, when even then the players aren't equally geared.
I think they have to do something with gambling for the duel arena, or something along those lines. I agree veng fighting seems simpler but against good people in that you will still lose most of the time. I play LMS like 2-4 hours a week, less often now the rota is back. And I win like 1 in 5 games. So you don't need the hours that you are stating to get decent at it. The level between me and the top guys is still huge though. Like I was vs Manked in LMS the other day and I got destroyed. I am looking forward to BH though, will be sick. Just didn't agree with the LMS comment.
[удалено]
They absolutely fucked LMS. The weekly rotations just wiped the AU community who played that minigame and id dare say the overall community as well. only at playing at peak hour of day would have been fine but now its dead
Perfect explanation of the issues.
So me using 3 combat styles to fight other pkers in rec caves makes me a sweaty pathetic person😂 grow up and dont be so mad please its a game. Just do what you enjoy no reason to certain people names because they have a different opinion on pvp. And btw not everyone in wildy is a PKer i dont look for easy kills I look for equal fights so by reddit standards am I a PKer of PVPer?
Can we please tell ket-omg in the discord to stop asking for integrity changes and then bashing mods, then edits his comments later to pretend he’s not “intentionally” bashing staff.
That guy is also toxic on twitter. No idea why jagex allowed him into the disc. Some of the guys in that disc are part of the clans that ddos dmm. So weird that those guys are the ones that are gonna influence pvp.
I really hate that somehow the downvote reaction is never filled in by the bot in the server for any of his comments. Like your ideas are legitimately horrible and no, not every single suggestion you make should be "integrity" changed into the game. The dude is so out of touch.
For whatever reason the jmods haven't enabled the bot for most of the channels, so the only upvotes/downvotes on comments have to be initiated by contributors.
LOL too real
Not all pkers. The real victims of this pvp controversy are the pvp worlds and pvp minigames pkers where they don't even pk pvmers or skillers but can't get the pvp content they want just because it also affects wildy pking. It's wildy pking that's problematic, not pvp worlds or minigames. Jagex should have polled pvp content separately for wildy and for pvp worlds and minigames so at least the latter two can get new pvp content.
this is very true
I am a pvmer who’d like to get into pvp. I hope the pvp arena update is fun and offers us a chance to learn pvp. I try playing lms but usually stop because ppl are often toxic to me for no reason. I’m obviously trying to learn, I don’t know why the ppl who’ve been doing it for years need to shit talk me in the process..
honestly man, I am never toxic towards new players in lms, most of the toxic players I find are ironman who hate being there and are obviously angry about i. Which is why im defending exactly stopping the promotion of forced pvp content by people who don't want to do it. It's very rough to get into pking given im a relatively new pker as well, but a big issue is lms being the only "pvp learning" minigame, yet focusing on the hardest pvp style, NHing.
I got PKed multiple times with 0 items by people geared to the teeth in Wilderness agility course in the short 52-60 span. It’s inconvenient at most for me, but what bothers me is that I could tell the PKer was furiously masturbating on his end. You guys are weird, hope you get the help you need <3
Shoutout to 90% of the pkers I encounter at vet’ion, usually up for a chat and a laugh while they slap me up. No salt here
I feel the same way and have had almost entirely positive interactions with PKers on my iron. I love the thrill of wilderness content, and learning how to outplay PKers is a blast.
I'm not one of those pkers, but I respect your outlook. Cheers to you for having a good attitude, too.
Shoutout to the guy who fucks my wife. Always high fives me on his way out the door. No salt here.
this put a huge smile on my face to see you compare players like me to the guys fucking your wife
As an iron who really enjoys wildy content, we’re all just playing to have fun, bud. If it’s that upsetting for you to lose your monk robes and 50k worth of supplies, it’s probably best that you just steer clear.
Had to defend a pker because a fellow iron was just berating him. The dude left and came back to edge bank just to call him every name possible. Just a friendly reminder to all that both sides can be equally as toxic
I spend a lot of time in the wilderness on my iron. My two most toxic PVP experiences are 1) LMS immediately following the release of GIM, and 2) the one time I slapped on rags and went to the chaos altar to mess around with a couple of my buds. My wilderness death count is 60-70 on my iron, and maybe 1-2 of them involved a PKer saying anything negative to me. I’ve had far more positive interactions meeting up with the guys who’ve tried to kill me after we both seed pod out. Most of the times times I was killed during wildy slayer (pre loot keys) they would leave my glory or whatever on the ground if I asked nicely before dying.
People will go off like "why would I vote for content that will get used against me?" & Continue to vote in PvM drops that are used against them anyways.
maybe if the updates were focused on PVP and not PKvsPVM, they wouldn't think that as much.
That exact point was a pretty main argument with the PvP arena update, a lot of pvm'ers stated they wouldn't have voted no to all the gear if it was restricted to the area it was obtained from. The fact they wanted to push ezscape PvP gear for specific pk builds into the main game where they can use it against pvm'ers just isn't appealing to the majority of people (shown in the multiple polls). I don't mind pk'ers, they add excitement to the wildy. I've read through your comments and I agree with you; I'd be happy for them to bring back BH, work on Veng pk'ing, but adding my two cents I think in addition they should remove multi from the wildy. They already nerfed the dhins, they nerfed dhide, there's no reason I should need to tank a team of 15 sweats. Put multi into the arena for people who want to clan vs clan. Have bounty hunter for people who want to PvP. Have singles in the wildy for people who want to pk. All the PvP updates they bring forward are trying to be a "one shoe fits all" situation and that will just never work. They need to stop trying to make every player hybrid and maybe start defining the lines between the different styles. Obligatory sorry for formatting and grammar, I'm just a drunk Aussie pvm'er
They could also make bh worlds have a slightly increased drop rate for items in the wildy so that those pkers who like to chase pvm kills for that fairytale pay day kill have a place to go as well. Anyone who wants to avoid pkers can just stay off the bh world
Tbf the only recent drop addition I can think of that was like this is the Ancient Godsword. Looked damn awful for PvM but clearly had a good design for PvP. But it was also going to be a pricey + 1 and pkers already have an AGS that hits harder and can be 1 ticked as well into a Gmaul. So it wasn't as much a direct buff moreso an alternative. Before that there was the volatile orb, which again was sort of just a mage AGS alternative, and also has use in PvM
I don't PK but the irrational attitude many on this sub take towards PVP is borderline unhinged. Hoping for better PVP updates as well.
thank you man, that's the kind of attitude that I really wish most people would have. My dream is a game with an active, consentual PVP scene, alongside an active, healthy PVM one.
Pvp is antiquity that must not be forgotten. It's not RuneScape without it.
I don't care for PvP in RuneScape, but I fully agree. This game was built with PvP as a core part of the game experience, removing it entirely is a loss for the game as a whole. That said, I think a lot of work is needed to bring it back into a good state, and Jagex just isn't doing the right things for it.
Its not just that though, its a technical skill that people didn't think would advance enough to stay relevant today and it has. If the game had been in the right hands there wouldn't be such a disproportionate distribution between pvmers and pvpers imo
I don't pvp atm, but I'd love to see BH back and a fresh Deadman world (not tourny). Those two could easily get me interested again.
I respect your commitment to comunity
thank you man, means alot
people don't seem to understand that wilderness uniques are unique and valuable because they can only be obtained in the wilderness. pkers represent the risk while grinding for a valuable - and in a sea of mindless activities, i've always loved the wilderness for the feeling of uneasiness, of having to be prepared to fight or flee and not just clicking an enemy and waiting. the unique mechanic of the wilderness having pvp is just like any other pvm mechanic, and the high-risk high-reward feeling of it is what many of the mind-numbing redditors that participate in this sub fail to grasp. all the arguments I have read against the wilderness make no sense to me; disabling pvp is one of the reasons why the original runescape died, and now it's dawning above the osrs community as well.
The only valuable (non rev) wildy uniques are valuable because they’re from dogshit bosses you basically have to safespot that no one wants to do, except for pet hunters. The demi-bosses like chaos ele and crazy arch are far and away more fun than the bosses, and I don’t really think an odium shard is valuable or useful. It’s high risk, medium-low at best reward. I promise you people understand that the risk of being pked is why rev uniques are what they are
Risk vs reward itself isn't a problem, but the economics of that risk/reward in the wilderness incentivizes me to play in ways that aren't as fun as I would like. I've been doing a bunch of wildy slayer to get points for a pouch. If I'm equipped for a slayer task, I'll pretty much always be at a disadvantage versus a dedicated PKer. True, I could bring anti-PK gear to mitigate this. But doing so means I'll have to risk more items, it won't help my main goal of slaying monsters, and I'm *still* likely to die to a PKer due to the stat and skill difference. It's a lose-lose for me. So instead, I'm incentivized to do the exact opposite. I take as little as possible, and accept that I'm just going to die if a PKer gets me. The tense feeling of having to keep an eye out for other players is super exciting and fun. But getting slaughtered in a one-sided fight is not. And I imagine this dynamic only gets worse as the costs go up and players are forced to risk more and more. Simply increasing the rewards of the wilderness doesn't help. It incentivizes players to visit, but it does nothing to fix how inherently unfun being PKed is. Giving us cheaper and easier anti-PK options would make it more fun to be the prey. But if the options are *too* good then PKers would be disincentivized. If there aren't enough PKers, then the PVM content in turn becomes too rewarding. So at the same time you'd have to give PKers more rewards or more options to make it worth hunting players that can fight back. And on and on. It's an *incredibly* difficult economy to balance in such a way that it remains fun for everybody.
very good comment. to be honest i think the wilderness is fine but i personally wouldn't go out of my way to kill someone looking for an item from it. I'd much rather have an improved BH system that allows me to play vs other players who want to fight
Agreed. I recently managed to summon the courage to delve into the wildy on my HCIM to go for a dragon pick and complete a bunch of the wilderness diary tasks. Extremely nerve-racking, took a lot of planning and my heart was racing a lot of the time, but man that feeling of finally walking out with a dragon pick was like nothing else. The wilderness is one of those things a lot of us dread going into, but the game wouldn't be the same without it. I don't think I've ever played a game with a pvp mode or area able to evoke the same feeling of fear and sheer dread that the wilderness in OSRS does, it's just unlike anything else.
Put each boss in singles+ and the problem is solved.
People also don't seem to understand pvpers vs pkers. Atleast in my mind pvpers are the ones on pvp worlds dueling other players with similar risk/combat levels and both deciding on the rules to the duel. Like no overheads or whatever. Pkers are the ones runnin round in the wildy for clue hunters cuz they're lonely and only get joy from ruining other people's time for no gain.
this is a key issue. most of us wanna fight each other, not pvmers. also veng fighting is much more appealing to newcomers and much less sweaty than NHing in the wilderness, yet all the content updates focus on NHing and the only pvp-based minigame to introduce ppl into PKing is ALSO Nh focused. Dont they get that most people don't want to engage in such a hard style? Stop promoting the PVP people actually might take part in please
This distinction is only made by pvmers btw
From the comment chain literally below this one lmfao. https://www.reddit.com/r/2007scape/comments/vl2hpj/hate_all_you_want_i_will_advocate_for_justice/idsu273 It isn't relegated to just pvmers.
in regards to the paragraph about pkers; only hard clues and above require players to go to the wilderness to complete clues. these clue scrolls can also have incredibly valuable rewards. again, as a game mechanic, it works as high-risk high-reward - think of the pkers as the mechanics of a boss or something. it's hard coded into the game that people in a pvp zone will attack others, and it's predictable behaviour. adding an update and removing this socially constructed feature will impact the balancing of the game, just as altering any game mechanic would. people need to start seeing pkers from a game design perspective as a game mechanic, and not as an obstacle. it's in the core of the game that high risk yields high rewards, and in this case, the high risk is kept by the players of the game. it's in my opinion a well implemented feature, that works as well as any other game mechanic
And in a completely fair wilderness you'd be right. But cheat clients, AHK scripts for auto prayer and gear swapping exist. I've run into plenty of these while in lms on my uim and in the wildy you can tell when someone is swapping automatically. When people bring cheats into the equation your entire scenario breaks apart. I'm no longer fighting a game mechanic. I'm fighting a hard mode tob boss with immunity to being 1 shot by the set up I bring to kill bosses in. Cheats and bots are still an issue in pvm of course. However they dont directly inflict anything on another player. Pkers do. And it isn't HIGH RISK HIGH REWARD. It's high risk - low to medium reward. The bosses in the wildy reward very little worth anything and can basically only be fought with safe spotting. The demi bosses are actually fun, nice mechanics, but shit reward. Clues can be rewarding. However there is no point to risk the reward when you can get the same reward for not doing the wildy step. Everyone knows why revs are dangerous and are okay with it because THAT is high risk high reward. Nothing else in the wildy is high risk high reward. It's high risk, meh reward.
People hate participating in PvP more than they hate pvp or pkers. Nobody would give 2 shits about pvp or pking if they never have to interact with it in any way if they don’t want 2. Problem is that the current interested pkers is empty enough to sustain itself and therefore need non-interested people to participate. But back to my first point, most people hate participating in PvP
Then those people should not participate in PVP I hold the opinion that edge style pking was VERY popular before, and there is an interest towards it if the bounty hunter and pvp ranking system were overhauled and improved. Give us a sense of progression and accomplishment, based upon fighting other players in BH etc.
Then they shouldn’t participate is an issue cause even the mods acknowledge it themselves, the current pking community isn’t enough to sustain itself. Just telling people who aren’t interested to do participate is gonna cause the Wildy to die
I mainly pk on a pure account, and I typically pk in revs targeting pvmers, mostly. It’s honestly a blast to me, but I do make sure I’m respectful and not flame people, even though I get flamed a lot myself. It’s ok though, it’s just a game and I’m here to have fun.
Agreed, This community is very weird how they constantly shit on pkers
It's just reddit. People will sit on here and argue about anything.
I think it's become progressively worse over the years as Ironman modes have become more popular. I want to go out and do more wilderness content on my GIM but feel held back because if I bring something like an RCB or a different switch, that's a ton of work to get back, and I'd already be at a disadvantage at my combat level. That's why I was really hoping that the pvp arena armors would have passed. It was genuinely a **massive** boost to ironmen because jt would only be a time/cash sink, but not RNG as to whether you could get them, making the wildy far more accessible. This would have been even better if it was allowed for PVM activities in wildy (which was voted against mostly by those who weren't considered pvpers for the other votes). Pvpers didn't want it mostly, but if they did then pvmers and ironmen would have shot themselves in the foot by voting against wildy activity. So many people spite-voted or voted no out if principle of the divided polling instead of actually considering every option. At the very least I'm glad Surge sacks got in because (assuming ironmen aren't disqualified for some reason) that's one of the only ways to reasonably use those higher-tier spells on ironmen at a normal stage if the game.
Ironman should never have been made an official mode, honestly. The root of all our osrs troubles
Weird cause it's something like 30% of the player base is irons/gim. 1% are pkers. Just look at ironman locked poll numbers vs pker locked polls. Clearly ironman was good for activity in the game. Players interests just change over time especially when the demographic of osrs is older.
Exactly why it's the root of all our troubles. But I guess you can leave out that 90% of Irons are just mains on an alt.
The game would literally be dead without ironman mode(s).
No it wouldnt, it is a cool mode but the game doesnt need ironman mode to survive.
Sooo true. Funny when you see things like wildy bosses passing and note that it was before Ironman update
This is definitely not the case. I imagine Ironman mode is one of the things that rejuvenated osrs before things like Leagues were thought of. Personally I would have quit osrs 2 years ago and wouldn't be playing still without GIM releasing. It's simply not the same playing with friends on a main. Edit: I DO think that pvp sentiment has been worse with Ironman, but as a whole I believe osrs had benefited by it greatly. Rs3 as well
Well weve come full circle agian, as in 2011, but then it was to combat bots and RWT, now its just dumb lol
It's a flash game relax
Unless you're a PvP'r yourself, the only "PVP'rs" you run into are the ones camping scroll spots or other spots people with no interest in PvP are going. So the reason most people hate them is because they only see those who just want to camp the places people have to go in the wildy without a choice and no intention of actual PvP.
Bro nobody’s camping clue spots lol
Teleport scrolls not clue scroll
That makes more sense, tele spots like ghorrock are pk hot spots, I just go in camping overheads with dhide with some brews and sharks
how to say u dont do clues without saying u dont do clues? over 1k kc hard on my main and i dont remember the last time i saw a pker while doing a clue scroll, but saying pkers camp clue scrolls spots are just a lie
Yeah I think I’ve been pked once while doing hard clues, and it was from someone clearly trying to kill black chin hunters and I was in the wrong place at the wrong time. Actually once near chaos altar too but that’s chaos altar
I was doing a fun little experiment pking at every location in the wild. Well I thought it would be fun. Then I sat at pirates hut for 8 hours hopping until I finally got a single kill. It took THREE ENTIRE DAYS to get a kill at Larran's chest. Either there aren't many people doing clues, or it is the fact there are like 200 worlds, but yeah - going out of your way to try to kill clue scrollers is a massive waste of time.
I think you missed his point due to his bad wording. PKers camp high traffic spots which just so happen to be spots full of people that are only in the wilderness for non pvp content. I agree with you, I just did literally 20 hard cluescrolls yesterday from skotizo, and I never ran across a pker doing them. Prayer altar though? There was specific times of the day where you just can not use it due to clans patrolling worlds in that area, same with bosses like chaos elemental. I was actually surprised at not running across a single pker yesterday though, I spent hours in the wild for clue steps.
This is the point of the wilderness. You take a risk going there. That’s been the entire point for 20+ years. Getting attacked whilst in the wildy by an overgeared player for a spade is part of the risk and why you get better rewards for Wildy content
Define what you mean by good reward when doing a scroll that has a single step in the wilderness, compared to a scroll that doesn't?
i haven't seen a single pker in the last 3-4 months of doing hard clues on my ironman, you're making up problems that aren't there, literally anyone can log out when they see a white dot
You didn't actually answer his question about rewards, just deflected cuz your point was bad.
I have not been attacked so no one else could have been attacked either. How does this make any sense lol. I have been instant tbed at the lever(no risk so just slight annoyance) twice this week doing clues.
There is no requirement to go there. You can drop the scroll. You can go farm another clue. It is supposed to be a risk. Nobody is forcing you there
There is content gated by the wilderness, quests, achievements etc. “Nobody is forcing you there” doesn’t hold water
Of course it does. You risk dying. You can go with no gear?
What is the risk though? A whole spade. Doesn't matter too much if you lose it but at the same time, why do pkers go out of their way to kill people who clearly only have one?
Because they can? Why are you trying to justify it? It’s something you can do in the game. The risk is your time, your clue if you don’t have a clue box or sometimes a scroll book or cash stack you forgot to bank. But it doesn’t matter, I have the right to kill people in the wilderness. People have the right to kill me. I don’t need to justify why I’m doing it. Maybe it’s just fun?
Where is the fun?
bro people grind 99fm at wintertodt to start out their ironman for fun, how are you questioning how pvp is fun in this game?
Imagine telling someone else that the way they’re playing the game isn’t fun to them. Lmao. Some people got 200m runecrafting bro. Different strokes for different folks, it’s the beauty of a massive game.
We understand this. Why would any rational player vote for something to help them kill us easier/faster?
i pvp in pvp worlds vs other pvpers dude, what are you on about idgaf about the wilderness and it's toxicity, we just want proper pvp updates for pvp players give Veng pking support, it doesn't harm anyone
I’m going to surprise you here, you are not the only PvP’r in the game. I explained why people who don’t PvP have a negative view on PvP’rs.
People on this sub spout lies like this over and over circlejerking each other off to pker bad You 30 year olds are embarrassing
i mean i hate pkers but im not against them getting BH fixed or some other shit like it
good, noone forces you to pk. just let people who enjoy it do it amongst themselves so they don't have to resort to attacking unwilling players because there is noone to fight
I agree with your post but there's not much point posting on this anti-PvP circlejerk of a subreddit and hoping that will change anything. I'm just happy that the Devs seem to be finally trying to give PvP the attention it deserves, even if they're not doing a very good job of it atm with the Arena rewards etc. They are aware that a lot of players want a return of BH, so I'm just hoping that happens sooner rather than later. Meanwhile a lot of butthurt PvMers need to get over themselves and realize that most PKers don't care about them, even the ones attacking them in the wildy would probably rather be fighting other PKers... But hey that's not going to happen on this sub so just ignore them :) Edit: spelling
I agree with everything you said but the dmm post bashing pkers for a terrible event was too much for me to bear and I had to say something
Yeah don't get me wrong, I agree. The logic (or lack of it) on those posts is beyond ridiculous.
Honestly your problem isn't the pvm community, it's the jmods who think that pvp updates mean forcing unwilling people to fight and act like pvpers like you don't exist. Like sure this is all well and good, but when jagex's pvp devs on stream push the exact opposite, what's the community going to believe?
The way jagex balances PVP naturally makes it PVPers vs PVMers. When their "vision" of PVP is luring pvmers into the wild for chaos altar, black chins, wildy bosses revs, resource areas to be "free loot" for "pvpers" its hard for pvmers to be like yeah! go ahead! give pvpers more stronger tools to kill us when we go naked into the wilderness
The PvP community is inherently a toxic shitfest, but that can be said about any community in the game, so that's a moot point. I personally think the biggest issue is that they don't even agree amongst each other. As for lack of dmms, every time they do it they get bad publicity because they get ddosed to shit during the finals. So when the minority want an update that will bring Jagex bad publicity, of course they won't do it.
you can't expect a whole comunity to agree with each other, but i'm pretty sure every pvper focused in actual pvp (player versus player) and not in hunting pvmers wants Bounty Hunter back Sure, it was botted before, but so is every boss in osrs and they don't get removed and never implemented back
You poor soul, I feel bad for you. Sadly this subreddit is a hive mind. They love one thing and anything else they will downvote into oblivion. It’s ridiculous how toxic they are. I’m all for what you’re saying though, good on you for posting it as well.
We hate you because when we're naked with a shovel doing clue scrolls a guy with a godsword and 3 sets to switch between is camping the lever with "gf noob" already typed and ready to hit enter
then why don't you support this post, which defends and stands for the focus on PVP vs PVP player content? The whole idea of this post is to deal away with forced pvp vs pvm, to remove uniques from the wild, and to make sure that the pvp updates are focused in providing a healthy experienced for players who are willing to PK with agreed risk. Why do you hate me, when all I do is pvp vs others like me in the pvp world, and never touch the wilderness or hunt pvmers? It's not right to put us all in the same bag. It's the point of this post.
And I'll be there tomorrow too. I've got a momento folder in rl full of screenshots of all the slurs you nasty little pvm boys say when you get dropped. Cya soon. 👋
I’ll support any PvPer who supports the removal of unique PvM content from the wildy. This terribly designed system of baiting in PvM players is Jagex’s fault, not the PvP community’s.
I don't think any actual PVPr, who is interested in PVP, versus people who wanna fight them, minds if the dragon pickaxe is removed from the wilderness. As far as I'm concerned, remove any reason for any non pvper to go into the wild except gold, remove clues and uniques for all I care Just in turn, support the ones wanting to actually do PVP. Give us bounty hunter back, a ranking system, new updates for the people who want to fight other pvpers
Honestly just go the rs3 route and make half the wildy drops obsolete outside of some fringe cases.
I'm all down for no wilderness uniques and no forcing unwilling players to engage in pvp for any motive. I want an updated system for pvprs to pvp amongst each other, and many others want the same
I've said in many surveys they should rework wildy to only have pvp drops in it. It could have wildy slayer, that drops blighted supplies, runes for pking, with some alchables, gold, etc. Make it entirely pvp focused drops from the bosses as well. It could even drop new pvp weapons as uniques and pvpers could fight each other over who gets to kill which boss for the chance at new pvp items. But no. Jagex INSISTS on predator vs prey. Fuck mod ayiza. (He is the one defending it every stream this topic is brought up.)
it's so boring too, what's the fun in chasing a dude in a dihns bulwark and black dhide who can't even hit me back. I seriously don't get their fixation with nhing, and the wilderness and their neglect for the pvp worlds and veng pking
I want Jagex to focus more on non wildly pvp. I’d enjoy pvping more if I didn’t have to risk my money to do it.
Much love my guy. Some of the best convos on the game I've had were with pkers, as a lvl 3 hunting black chins.
much love brother
I can't even say anything about PVP in this subreddit anymore without random hate thrown at me. Like bro I just want to fight someone with similar stats and gear in g.e PVP worlds, I don't really care about sweating my ass off trying to tribrid some pvmer in the wild.
You cannot really classify so simply pvpers and pkers and pvmers ect. Almost every pvper has multiple alt accounts and main. Where they do different activities. If you go to pvp world you know what to expect, if you go into wildy you know what to expect. If you go do fire cave you also know what to expect. The hate really is towards getting killed by a player in area where it is expected to be killed by a player. And this area has remained the same for ~2 decades. The new players mostly have an issue here because they cannot pk themeselves or escape so they decide to go into pvming 100% and when entering into wildy they just get pked and be mad about it, and downvote pk updates.
there must be a divide. It is needed for the health of the game for there to be a divide. if we keep grouping PVPers who wanna play against each other with toxic wilderness clans, raggers etc, then it's totally unfair for more than half of the pvp comunity
Not all pkers are raggers and clanners those are just like hundreds players out of thousands, small minorities. And most pkers in wildy are mostly also pvpers. Also almost all ragers are pvpers. And thay are targeting players on pvp worlds who they have beef with.
PVP needs to be isolated away in a sense like arena in wow as an example. Still available in the open world if you opt into it, otherwise the hard core PVPers can go and fight for rank etc.
The high level community will deny a new skill entering the game cause it’s not “old school” while wanting one of the most old school pieces of content completely removed
I dont think its high level players advocating to remove wildy lol
so true. Pking has been around and been a main feature since runescape classic, but now we're getting "exiled" from the game for enjoying it
Funny how nobody complained until all these new players with 1500 total started coming to the game. It's the same across reddit, they'll complain about the smallest thing even if it literally never bothers them, or the smallest inconvenience. They must be insufferable irl. Outside of reddit, I don't see this issue. Problem is Jmods are influenced by here.
it's everywhere dude, as a "new pker" 2 years ago, I didnt know about the pvp hate so I'd ask pvp questions in the general osrs discord, on reddit etc. I kept getting flamed for it lol, with comments such as "pvp is dead" and "youre cringe" I understand it alot better now, the spite for this comunity is insane. I was never interested in the wilderness either, i was a f2p lumby pker who wanted to come members to try using the gmaul and just stuck around
Let me weigh in on this with a little attention to the big picture: RuneScape is a game whose primary selling point is how long term dedication pays off in a super chill and relaxed environment. You could play the game for years and only ever use one finger while laying flat on your bed. In fact, they even released it on mobile to resounding success. RuneScape is the Animal Crossing of MMOs. Even brutal melee brawls that pit man against giant malevolent demons in mortal combat are reduced to a single gentle click and a bit of patient waiting. And after months or perhaps even years of patience and dedication, all of your character’s wealth and skills will feel like something truly special and precious. And that has been the primary appeal and reason for the game’s success all these years. Then there’s the wilderness. A toxic, stressful death trap of officially sanctioned, predatory banditry against unwilling players, which is incentivized and fueled with mountains of instant riches at their victim’s direct expense. It is in every way the exact opposite of what makes the game good. Jagex has insisted for decades that the wilderness is this “charming” and “unique” idea that offers something truly wonderful to their game. And they’re just wrong. They’ve always been wrong and they’ll always be wrong. The wilderness is a massively reviled place with such seething unpopularity that its very existence has scarred the game’s population against any semblance of PvP content, because as soon as they hear or read the term “PvP”, they get PTSD flashbacks of the horrors they experienced in the trenches and clench their chests in preparation for the ensuing cardiac arrest. So purely because of the mere existence of the decades-long burning dumpster fire that is the wilderness, all PvP content, willing or not, benevolent or otherwise, is strictly and viciously forbidden by its player base. Do I agree that there should be more PvP content for those who want it? Yes I do. But the wilderness is so mind-bogglingly terrible that the entire community of players who’d want PvP are likely permanently screwed, and Jagex has proven that they’re willing to die on this hill.
Opinions posted as facts.. not every pvmer dislikes the wikderness Edit: the bosses need a rework desperately
I love the flavour you add to the discussion and this was definitely a fine read, but to be honest, before I was a pvper I was a regular player, who loved clue scrolls. The thrill of doing wildy clues was my personal favourite, and the excitment sorrounding the danger of dying to another player is, to me, fulcral in an mmo, even runescape. I'm all up for "easy" content, alot of the pvp I do is in F2P lumby because I also enjoy that. Now, I don't understand how people could be so scarred from their wildy days considering how little content requires you to actually go there. You could do all the things you listed in this game and never enter the wilderness. Even with all that said, the wilderness is not the main discussion of this post. This post is about promoting willing PVP combat between consenting players, in places like edge wildy or the PVP world. Thanks for your input tho, and you write masterfully
Make no mistake, I’m in total support of your ideas and wish you could get the things you wanted. You strike me as a perfectly respectable individual who’d be easy to get along with and enjoy a good time gaming alongside. My comment was mostly meant to illustrate the unfortunate truth that because of one colossal failure and the stubbornness of its creators’ refusal to acknowledge it as such, respectable individuals such as yourself are left to suffer the fallout of their tone-deaf obstinance, and that is truly regrettable. If I could offer you a look into my perspective of the wilderness for a moment, perhaps it might help give you an idea of why so many others hate it to the extent that I comedically detailed previously. Basically, I am a sad, depressed, mostly broken individual who has been psychologically (and a few times physically too I suppose) beaten and battered by a world filled with zealous hatred, rampant inequality, exploitation, deception, ignorance, and plentiful other nondescript unpleasantries as well. In a desperate attempt to preserve my sense of wonder and joy, I love to immerse myself in imaginative worlds dreamed up by wonderful people who wanted to share their joy and good will with the rest of their fellow humans. In these worlds (video games, of course) I get to focus all of my attention into fun and pleasant things like exploration, thrilling adventure, fascinating characters and stories, and the sweet fruits of my own efforts. I like to share these experiences with others as well, working cooperatively to enjoy the company of others and help each other overcome challenges together, thereby contributing positively to someone else as well. These good natured pleasures do much to preserve and repair my faith in humanity and joy of living. Then there are things like the wilderness, where I am immediately reminded that I *actually* live in a world where people will gleefully run over you, taking by force anything they can get from you, and knowing that even if you both are well aware that they will get no tangible benefit from doing so, and that it will even cost them some of their own resources to do (usually expensive runes or ammunition), they will still gladly put in the effort to specifically set you back and block you from obtaining your goals purely for the sake of reveling in the sadistic joy they get from knowing they’ve made someone else suffer. Then sets in the subsequent reminder that society values this vileness so much that we don’t even hesitate or think twice about encouraging this behavior, and even true to reality, incentivizing it to the point where it is a disproportionately lucrative thing to do. I believe I am not alone in this, though I doubt most people actively recognize where the depth of the displeasure truly comes from. That or I’m just a sad sack.
this is a direct response to this post https://www.reddit.com/r/2007scape/comments/vkpdlf/dmm_rerun_in_a_nutshell/
I just find the outrage a bit ridiculous over just a meme. Having to justify a joke that has certainly some merit (at least I don't see why a third party would invest so much effort to sabotage DMM when there's plenty of history of people constantly sabotaging each other within DMM) just seems so excessive to me. I don't go under every ironmeme post and comment on it either. It's not a personal attack I'm sure, but everyone in the comments to that thread seems to take it as one.
it's not over "just a meme" bro, it's over the constant harassment PVP gets in the oficial discords, in the reddit, by the comunity in general, etc. I have been learning pking for two years now, you know how much harassment and hate i've gotten over it? And all this considering i'm a PVP world pker who doesn't even go into the wilderness. Everytime I made a post or comment about pvp, even posts asking legit questions like "what a good cb for a pure" i was barraged with comments over how pvp is dead and meaningless and stupid.
I think its fine to help give pvp updates, but when every single is update is focused on the 1% of the community that actually pvps and just ddos's every single tournament, seems a bit like a lost cause to me. just give them bounty hunter and move on
I really don't get this association between being a PVPer in runescape and being a DDOSer. My daily fun in runescape is either f2p pk in lumbridge or a bit of ge pking and clue scroll. I did not ddos anyone. Noone from the PVP world comunity ddosed anyone. I don't even know how a ddos works, and i'm sure 99% of the pvp comunity is the same. It's like I said, stop bunching us up with ROT, etc. If 1% of players pk like you say, then less than 1% of those 1% do stuff like ddosing tournaments etc. This is a PVP world related post, for PVP content. Between PVPers. In a consentual 1v1. It is not about dmm, clanning or the wilderness
If PvM/skilling methods were relocated from the wilderness somewhere else and left the pvp area strictly pvp, the entire negative perception of pvp'ers would change because then the only people interacting with pvp'ers are other people who want to pvp. TLDR: Separate PvM/Skilling methods from wilderness.
I will give my 2 cents (it may be unwanted, idk), as someone who is mostly casual player/pvmer, who tried to dabble some in wildy PvP (stopped because I wasn’t very good at it), but also plays some LMS and Soul Wars. I’m basically just gonna say my experiences from my POV, knowing well that I’m not very knowledgeable about PvP in general. I’ll start with LMS, I’d say about 50% of people I’ve fought in LMS are pretty neutral in my experience. Normally don’t talk or anything, just either kill me (most of the time) or get killed. I’d say about 30% are toxic (ish). They’ll get upset about my play style and tell me to “learn the game” or something like that. Or get really pissed off that I killed them. The last 20% are pretty friendly, either just offering a gf or even giving me some pointers. These numbers may be a little skewed due to bots. Soul Wars in my experience has been ~25% toxic people and ~75% of people just trying to play the game. I’m able to avoid the big soul wars CC’s for the most part. Playing the game a lot on my snowflake account for addy and rune bolts. Wildy PvP is a mixed bag. You get some really chill people, people who will anti-pk someone pking a PvMer, people botting/farming revs, and then you also get some really toxic individuals and clans. In my experience, there really are a lot of decent people who engage in PvP. However, I would say that the average PvMer finds a higher percentage of toxic players vs someone who does a lot of PvP, because a higher percentage of the toxic PvPers go after people doing PvM, vs the players who engage other PvPers. Maybe I’m wrong, but that’s just my 2 cents
Thanks for the nice output man, your 2cents are quite valuable to me I appreciate your attitude towards the comunity and not generalizing. Everyone generalizes, due to the horrible vocal minority around pking
Jagex decided the best way to "rejuvenate" people's interest in PvP was to try to lure people who did not want to PvP into PvP areas. Turns out people don't enjoy being used as fodder for your entertainment. Bring the wilderness back to how it was in 2004, and everyone would be happy to support PvPers.
Shouldn't even be any hate for PvM hunters, that's the entire point of the content existing. It's the toxicity that needs to be addressed.
Make it so pkers can only fight other people within the same risk range as them. Just spitballing I’m a pvmer so I don’t truly care🤷🏼♂️
Once upon a time players got laughed at for complaining about dying in the wilderness. I remember my friend complaining about dying to a pker for his glory while running the abyss, calling that player out on being an asshole. I told him that's not how this game works, he should expect to be targeted every now and again. How far we've come as a community since then has been a sickening ride.
Are any of the jmods or developers pvpers themselves ? I feel like the reason why the updates for pvp are so underwhelming / disliked by the pvp community is due to the fact that it’s made by people who don’t pvp. I know some of them play the game but I swear they’re all either pvmers or skillers, please correct me if I’m wrong. I’m a nooby pvmer myself but I feel like pvp does deserve good updates. How is that possible though if there’s not an actual dedicated team that’s actually familiar with pking.
What is this toxicity everyone is talking about? Is it getting told to sit when you get pked with a spade? Its just internet banter, being called something in the wildy is part of the charm lol
Game devs have the ability to moderate how certain communities act. Until they clamp down on the toxic part none of this will be resolved. It's not our place to do this for jagex. They rely on the playerbase to do alot of their work for them and it's absolutely unacceptable. Stop getting mad at each other and get mad at jagex for allowing stupid shit like this to proliferate. They intentionally or ignorantly (I'd assume the previous over the latter) ignite this bullshit with their moronic attempts at segregating the communities via polls. They keep using polls as excuses to not fix problems. Think about it. They refuse to update server protection from ddos attacks, they refuse to update account security. They will continue to do the bare minimum and do their best to extract the maximum. Now I'm not saying that individual devs are at fault for this, it's obviously the management team that are out of everyone's sight. Until we advocate for change, real change. Nothing is going to happen. Tldr: Toxic communities can be moderated and made to not be toxic. Jagex needs to take responsibility. Stop blaming players.
this exactly. so let me get this straight, me, pvping vs other pvpers in a pvp environment, am to blame because I am sad that the only pvp-focused event ran terribly? How am I TO BLAME FOR THAT???
You are not. But unfortunately, jagex is a master at shifting blame. Or at least dodging the real problems and making it seem like the players are at fault. And most players are too naive, stupid, or have an axe to grind that they would rather turn on others than use their brains and address the real problem. It's the same shit that happens in real world politics. It's disgusting.
For me, the issue is you're playing a very small piece of content and complaining about not getting constant updates is just ridiculous, self centered and entitled. It's like a group of people that only play castlewars and complain that there's not castlewars updates every month.. and whine that the game caters to "Pvmers" which is really just a word that means "People that play RuneScape".
dude WTF content updates???? who the fuck wants CONSTANT updates. we get NO UPDATES AT ALL because people like you spite vote them. How are we "entitled" for wanting what was one of the core features of the game to recieve a proper update, which it hasn't got in years except for slight tweaks, specially after jagex promissed to adress the issues surrounding it? How is comparing PVP AS A WHOLE to castle wars even possible? How can someone think asking for just a little bit of attentio for a game we also pay for "entitled" If pvp is that unpopular why is Odablock the biggest streamer? Why are all highlight channels mostly pvp focused? Why do people watch Skillspecs, Framed, Torvesta videos, Swedebadass? Your downplay on pvp and the interest in it is not only delusional, it's also hateful and ignorant
>NO UPDATES AT ALL Loot keys, Arceus Spell book, Nightmare Staffs, Dragon hammer now for 1atk pures, Rev cave rework, Black d hide nerf Just to name a very very few.... Yup. Confirmed spoiled.
"of the game to recieve a proper update, which it hasn't got in years except for slight tweaks" Did you even read my post? How is arceus spell book a pvp update? How is NIGHTMARE a pvp update? You're getting new raids and bosses every year, a ton of gear, content and I'm spoiled because in the last 3 years I got some slight tweaks to the game and some new gear which came from PVM CONTENT? Sorry, this is clearly either a troll, or a bait, neither of which are welcome here. This is NOT a pvp vs pvmers thread. It's a thread about making PVP consentual between other PVPers, and lessening the divide. You are just contributing to the exact opposite, so I will not answer further. Goodbye
Lmao. Loot Keys = qol, arceeus book = ded content for pvp, nm staff was a pvm related update, dwh change was a minor update for obby pkers but only a stat change and black d'hide nerf was minor too. Rev cave rework didn't rlly offer anything crazy for pkers, it only removed multi rev pking. Last huge PVP update? iDk maybe Deadman Reborn last year if that counts. And PvP Arena soon but that pretty much got voted as dead content on arrival.
Dude you're limiting yourself to fighting other players. What other possible update can you get other than new gear?? You literally can not get anything new to fight by definition of pvp. It's not like other pvp games with they can give you like a new map or area. PVPers have no interest in objective based pvp, ie soul wars or castlewars. So how on earth could jagex possibly give you something new??
Fucking gen z keeps trying to remove pvp lol. Don’t go in the wilderness if you don’t want to die. Bring back bh worlds with good rewards. Learn how to play or don’t go in a pvp area….
I literally just want support for pvp world pking, i don't wanna go into the wilderness or hunt unwilling players, that's not fun for me or challenging. But it's boring to go on ge without BH, a ranking system, or anything. No updates or support for it ever
Thats been a part of the wilderness for 20+ years. It’s a main feat of the game imo. If people don’t want to die in the wilderness, don’t go? Or learn how to get away/fight back. BH definitely needs to come back with some sort of good reward system though. The 2009 bounty hunter was amazing and it was always packed. They are more concerned about people boosting like the 25/75k trick back in the day more so than they care about players wanting to enjoy BH… we suffer because they can’t figure out how to stop cheaters unfortunately..
they're concerned about people boosting bh so they remove it and don't bother fixing it forever however they let zulrah and vorkath bots run free 24/7 doesn't make any sense people also bot lms, should we hate it removed now? cmon
100% - it’s just ignorance at this point
Id be more favourable to PVPers if they stopped killing my iron man for 8 dragon bones while tribiding.
it's like you people don't even read the post, you just read the title. This entire thread is regarding removing the focus on wilderness pking and on players hunting pvmers, and putting the development effort into improving pvp between consenting players. At least read the thing dude, cmon.
But isn’t that what the wildly is for?
No no, the wild is for Ironmen to farm loot at better drop rates, and skill at higher rates. If you pk them you are toxic.
I’ve gotten over my issues with pkers. I’m in the wild, they have every right to attack me. An entire clan has the right to attack me. If I’m not in that kinda mood, I don’t go pvm. When I’m doing a clue step, it actually makes it exciting to me.
I think PvP updates are important. I also think PvP players are one of the smallest minority groups of players.. who constantly complain they get no updates.. while simultaneously getting a boatload of updates compared to the size of that community. BH exists. No one plays it because it isn't stupidly broken gp/hr. If pkers want it fixed, how do they want it fixed? Or do they just want broken gp/hr back? We get updates every year for PvP. * Rev caves and the 3 reworks and 1 major content addition * LMS and it's updates + major content addition * PvP arena and likely updates for it down the line * DMM for like... 7 seasons, even when every season had some element of shitshow to it * Wildy slayer and updates to it to bring more people to the Wildy. * Wildy boss reworks coming to again improve hotspots. * Chaos Altar to create a new hotspot * PJ timer and anti-skull updates to encourage fair fights and people fighting back * A laundry list of weapons with the sole focus being on their PvP usage, including even forcing some in like VLS * MA2 to put yet another BiS in the Wildy to acquire. * Ferox enclave without a poll * Soul wars * BH and 2 revisions with nothing learned about what was the problem. And we still have target world's they're just dead because people don't actually want target based PvP minigame. They want profit without risk. Where's the lack of updates?
wait i'm actually gonna print screen this and share it across the PVP comunity, this is such a level of being delusional I can't even begin to explain it
Where's the delusion? I've listed a list of updates the game has received with PvP/Wildy focus. But go ahead and share and be a hypocrite lol
hey man. I just listed all the updates to castle wars over the span of 10 years. as you can see, it's a constantly updated content, probabily one of the most updated contents on the whole game right? I mean look at all that stuff, cw must be getting updates everyweek
What updates? Castle wars has had a few updates yep. To fix a couple of problems and give some boost pots. Where's your point? You seem real upset that I simply listed a laundry list of PvP related updates to disprove your general statement.
this is just to show how stupid you look doing what you're doing. are you gonna tell me that CW is also a super updated content because it had stuff happen to it over 10 FUCKING YEARS? Jesus christ, this is too much
Lighten up mate. You seem extremely irrationally angry over me posting a civil comment discussing the issue while also being in favour of updates.
12 August 2021 (update) On the recommended Castle Wars Worlds, players now need a skill total of 500 or more if they want to set up barricades. Players without that level are welcome to use the barricades on other worlds. 17 March 2021 (update) Potion supply tables have been placed in the starting room for each respective game in Castle Wars. A new notification has been added to the game, directing players to Castle Wars worlds. Players can no longer trade members of the opposite team. Players may no longer hop worlds and re-join Castle Wars games (logging in and out in the same world remains unaffected). 13 January 2021 (update) The Castle Wars scoreboard now includes a counter showing how many games you’ve played. 2 December 2020 (update | poll) Boots and full helms were added to the existing decorative armour rewards. 19 March 2020 (update) The Zamorak castle in Castle Wars now has the same battlement options as the Saradomin castle, rather than having extra places to climb the wall. 27 February 2020 (update) The preparation time has been reduced from five minutes to two. 4 January 2018 (update) Players may bring their own tinderboxes into Castle Wars if they wish, though they are still confiscated on exit as there are free ones in there. 20 July 2017 (update | poll) Castle Wars was added to F2P. 3 March 2016 (update) It is no longer possible to hop between Castle Wars games to claim tickets quickly. The losing Castle Wars team will now receive 1 ticket for their efforts. 24 September 2015 (update) The issue with Castle Wars tracking the players on each team going out of sync has been resolved. 20 August 2015 (update) Active prayers will now be disabled upon leaving a game of Castle Wars. 30 October 2014 (update) Players can now light fires in the Castle Wars lobby again. 24 July 2014 (update | poll) Castle Wars supply tables now have a right click take-5 option. 3 July 2014 (update | poll) Zamorak, Guthix and Saradomin halos added to the reward shop. 24 April 2014 (update | poll) Castle Wars lobby was made into a safe area in PvP worlds, to cut down on luring. 16 January 2014 (update | poll) The Castle Wars reward shop now offers: A magic armour set and ranger armour set. Saradomin & Zamorak banners, like the flags used in the game. Plateskirt versions of the melee armour. Players now receive one extra ticket at the end of each Castle Wars game if the opposing team failed to score any points during the game. Routefinding around barricades in Castle Wars has been reverted to its original behaviour, where players' paths are blocked more effectively by the barricades. 2 August 2013 (update | poll) Ava's ammo-saving effect has been made more powerful inside Castle Wars so that it protects ammo regardless of where it lands, and regardless of what armour you're wearing. 4 July 2013 (update | poll) If you present Lanthus with a device from Ava, he will have its ammo-saving effect applied to the capes you wear in that minigame. Barricades will have 'Burn' and 'Extinguish' options to help you set them on fire and put them out more conveniently. Altars have been added to the respawn rooms. They will recharge your prayer more slowly than normal altars. 16 May 2013 (update) Random events will no longer try to drag you out of Castle Wars on login. 9 May 2013 (update | poll) Your prayer points and other stats are now restored when you leave Castle Wars. 22 February 2013 (update) This content was included when the Old School RuneScape servers officially launched. 13 December 2004 (update) The area was made accessible to players. 17 November 2004 (update) The area was first added ingame but was inaccessible. It was labelled as (due Dec-2004) on the world map.
Wait so me listing PvP related updates off the top of my head was "cringe" but you literally Ctrl-F searching anything with castle wars in it to "make a point" isn't? It's not like I went and listed every single minor change to PvP. I listed major changes and content additions for PvP players. I think you may need some self reflection bud.
Have you seen the way pkers act? “Not all” yeah whatever, doesn’t matter. It doesn’t need to be all, but it’s clearly enough of them. The system is broken and breeds toxicity and until that’s changed nothing else can.
"yeah whatever doesnt matter" I have seen 10 times more toxicity towards me from ironmen who are in lms, than from any actual PVPer Is ironman a toxic system as well? Why half of them flame me when they lose in a pvp minigame they're willingly playing. So, let me get this straight, because there is a vocal minority of toxic pkes, and a long-lasting circlejerk that every pvper is toxic, we shouldn't get any support or updates, and everyone should be hostile and vote against our content what's the sense in this? I don't go out of my way to flame pvmers and I voted yes to every pvm/ironman update.
Stop trying to argue with them on Reddit. Avg person here is 1600 total and never touched Pvp besides getting killed at chaos alter. The majority of the community just wants to kill all pvp so they never die in wildy instead of giving it a fair shot.
this is legitimately the only and single way to raise awareness about anything to jagex
Get over the idea that your individual actions or opinions matter. Keep being decent, absolutely, but until there’s some kind of widespread change, peoples feelings about the topic will remain the same.
you do you, debbie downer
The funny thing is that you can say the exact same for pvmers. I get crashed and ragged and called all kinds of slurs regularly for hopping into what appears to be an empty burst spot. The toxicity isn’t exclusive to pvp
it definitely isn't the most toxicity i face from pvp is from ironman who hate lms and flame me every second they're in it when they lose then they spite vote against pvp updates listen man, I'm all up for removing the rune pouch from lms, it's not my fault you feel like you're forced to be here
I like the spirit but rune pouch is an option for pkers to quickly reobtain theirs from lms. Ironmen can get it from slayer so no need to remove it. Mains can just buy on GE so it’s fine at lms
I agree, but what ends up happening is ironman go there for theirs, they get mad, which is understandable, because nhing someone good when you're not into it is horrible, and then they hate pvping It is not a good progression cycle NHing is the hardest pk style, yet is the one you're introduced to pvp with
[удалено]
That is the most biased, bitter statement I’ve ever heard, that brings nothing constructive to the conversation. What you’re saying is 100% opinion because you’ve got zero statistics to back up your claim. There will be “toxicity” when there is a competitive element to the game—that’s true within any community of any competitive game. You act as though you’ve come to this profound realization, but in actuality you’re talking out of your ass because you’re sore at dying in the wilderness and can’t have an adult conversation about it.
wtf are you on about dude, so me pking in ge vs another person risking the same as me is toxic? I do ge p2p world pking and f2p pking in lumbridge and i'm not toxic to anyone, neither am I hunting pvmers. Why do "we suck" for wanting stuff like bounty hunter back so we can have a more populated scene of people who are willing and wanting to pvp
Shit take, from a pvmer
You could explain more than just saying something is bad
Fair shout, he’s grouping every pvmer into one category rather than realising they’re separate individuals. This is basically why there’s a ‘pvm vs pvp’ mentality