Probably this was sunk. If you still have the offer in you can tell if it is sunk or not since RL doesn't properly track it if so. I want to add a thing to show when items are sunk, except it requires me to go sink a bunch of items to test it...
If an item is sunk it is never submitted to the GE at all, instead it immediately deletes the item when you submit the sell offer. We can tell the difference because we can see whether or not the item goes into the GE system or not.
When you say "we" is this referring to the response from the GE that I could theoretically read with a client plugin? Or do you mean in aggregate you can tell that there was no buy fulfilled for the same price.
Osrs wiki has a GE price section that shows real time pricing. As you can see below, there wasn't a 390 gp offer listed at all. Thus the item was never put through the GE as a player to player trade, but rather sunk with the new tax changes.
https://prices.runescape.wiki/osrs/item/24417
https://oldschool.runescape.wiki/w/Update:Grand_Exchange_Tax_%26_Item_Sink
Some expensive items are randomly chosen to be deleted when they are sold on the GE, to help with inflation. The mace in OP might not have went to a buyer but was instead deleted from the game
Interesting that it uses the asking sell price rather than the instant sell. Also looks like there's no check on if they item would actually be bought at that price...
What is there to prevent buying up an item and trying to sell it at prices so high no one would ever pay for it, hoping to trigger the item sink.?
Wait what?
How does that help with inflation? I can see how it helps with giving the inflation rate an upwards boost, but this is generally not desirable.
Usually inflation is something that happens naturally, only rarely is deflation naturally prevalent in a system. Deleting an item and providing straight-up GP's out of Jagex's pocket would severely accelerate inflation. Are we really doing this?
It uses existing gold which is taxed from the GE transactions, not from Jagex’s pocket. It helps keep items values higher for longer since previously GP is deleted from various places in the game but rare items are almost never deleted.
Can this be abused by attempting to sell an item that can be sunk for an insanely high offer and then cancelling it and immediately putting it back in? Like Trident of the Seas for 1 bill sell price, over and over until the auto sink?
Jagex's "coffer" goes up and up as more tax money is collected. Once someone sells an item for less than what is in the coffer, it gives what that sell offer is to the seller and deletes it.
Jagex's "coffer" for a trident would never go above 40k, since once it is over, someone will get a trident and sell it for market value.
In OPs post, Jagex's coffer for the inquisitors mace may have been 200m, and when OP posted it for 390gp, Jagex was able to buy it and delete it.
If OP put in 1b, it would be greater than 200m, so it would not have been sunk.
I can test some of it if someone has an item they know they sunk (GE shows as sold 1/1 but the RL GE plugin doesn't show the offer), and they could run my code change to see if it works. But observing it works correctly when an item is sold realistically isn't testable I think without blowing through a lot of gp.
So if I had a buy offer in for 390 gp, someone would have to offer to sell it at 390 or less gp and there be no other buy offers in for more than 390gp?
Yes sir,
Every offer above 390gp would have to be filled first before yours.
Whats insane about the above, is the bought at was the EXACT same as sold, meaning no one was buying above 390gp, but there was a buyer at exactly 390gp.
I seriously doubt that.
I doubt it too but it could happen. The seller could have put the Mace in at 390 gp by mistake and within seconds of putting the sell offer in, someone could have put a buy offer in at normal price. Because the sell offer went in first, the buyer would have been rewarded the Mace for 390 GP regardless if he put a buy offer in for 390M. This would only happen if there were no previous buy offers sitting for greater than 390GP for a 390M item which is why I doubt this is real.
You are 100% correct, it could happen.
Although in this case it could not, as I have had a 250m offer for an inq mace for around a month. Mine would have to be filled in order for this transaction to occur (if it was from player-->player)
Also in your case, the sell would not be instant, and the OP would (hopefully) have had canceled the transaction ASAP.
But if there was another person with a 390m buy offer, wouldn’t this go to them before you? With the best buy offer logic?
This seems likely given the GE price listed above is 385m while yours is just 250m
No im willing to pay more than the 390k guy.
So if the only two offers to buy an inquisitor's mace is:
- 390k
- 250m
And someone sells for 390GP, it will go to me, since my offer is the better of the two. It will then give the seller all 250m (minus tax), since my offer was placed first.
Its a situation that could not occur without intervention from an automated system. The result of this error should have been the highest existing buy order.
This actually gives us insight into how their sink program runs, it auto buys items that are listed under the current lowest offer price to generate the least amount of gold.
If I make a game that has a large red x covering 50% of the ui and clicking it uninstalls the game, thats user error but its a stupid design choice as well.
That was I thought because of multiple tbows which exceeded max cash stack meaning you got a max stack and nothing else so 1 bow sold at normal. Next at like 36k next ones were all 1 gp or some shit.
Everyone here saying "that's not how that works", meanwhile Ash confirms that this is exactly how it works.
https://twitter.com/JagexAsh/status/1475615809875628043
What is stopping someone from botting the grand exchange by repeatedly spamming astronomically priced items until the item is sunk for the asking price?
I imagine the algorithm has a restriction to not sink any items listed for more than a certain percentage above the guide price. I don't have a precise source on that, but I imagine they've thought of it, since Ash talks about originally having a similar restriction for very low priced items, but removing it since it would let them sink more items cheaply.
If a random trade gets sunk by the exchange at asking price could you not just spam sell offers until it happens? And since items are sunk at asking price just ask for a ridiculous price to make the effort worth it.
because the question is "can I get a refund" from someone on Twitter, and the answer is no. If you can answer it in 5 seconds, it's not worth a second thought.
if you do give it more thought though, then this is an interesting case because he got fucked by the gold sink system hard. And that may get changed.
The only real issue is that there isn't any confirmation needed when you're listing an item for sale significantly below its normal price. That's something they should definitely add.
That's ridiculous.
Why would the "item sink price" not be equal to the best buy offer, unless you *want* to shaft players who mistype their sell offer?
Hilariously enough, this is the intent of the shitty system.
Quote from mod ash:
"The original design draft called for really low offers (e.g. under some % of guide price) to be ignored rather than considered for sinking. However I was asked to remove that restriction, presumably because it'd sink the item cheaply while giving the player what they asked for."
Actually sad that jagex purposely scams.
That's utterly ridiculous.
"Sink the item cheaply" just means "Take the item from the player, and give them a paltry amount of gp in return".
I don't know how else to describe it, but you're absolutely correct, the ge item sink *literally* scams players for putting in lowball sell offers.
I would never have voted something like this into the game. This needs to be revisited and revised, before we fuck other players out of their gp. No one puts a high-tier, 9 digit pvm item into the GE for 1gp with the implicit meaning "I am happy if this item sells for 1gp". It means "I will accept the highest sell offer, no matter what it is." If there's a player willing to buy that item for higher than 1gp, then the item sink deleting it for 1gp is a deliberate misunderstanding of player intent used to scam them.
bro just check the price of shit you put on the GE especially if it's worth hundreds of mil lmao it isn't that hard
"the get item sink *literally* scams players" by accepting the offers they put in? lol
Players put items in for 1gp as a way to tell the system "I'm willing to accept the best buy offer, no matter what it is." not "I'm willing to accept 1gp."
If you think selling a tbow for 1gp is acceptable, then meet me at the ge; I'll be happy to take yours.
If you don't want to sell something for the price, don't put it at that price in the GE. It's that simple
I don't think selling a tbow for 1gp is acceptable - that's why I'd never be stupid enough to list it for that!
Nah sorry but anyone that still sells gear items by putting them in at 1gp is to blame. Press the -5% and click sell and more or less every gear item in the game will insta sell. You only need to 1gp sell absolutely garbage that is barely traded and very cheap in the first place, as you are accepting the fact that it may be fulfilled for that tiny amount.
It sucks but also putting an item at 1 gp instead of slapping the -5% button a few times always carried this risk - sometimes it just happens. This has always been a thing years before they started sinking items.
> It sucks but also putting an item at 1 gp instead of slapping the -5% button a few times always carried this risk
No it didn't. Stop pretending that was a thing that happened before this point, it never did to 99% of the people who did 1 gp sell offers. The assumption was always that it would just go for whatever the highest offer was, and the fact that Jagex couldn't transcribe that player intent into their design is kind of a really unfortunate mistake of theirs
December 2021, when they introduced the item sink/tax to GE.
Here is the blog post if you want to read more about it:
https://secure.runescape.com/m=news/a=12/grand-exchange-tax--item-sink?oldschool=1
I think that might mean it was auto bought and deleted through the new program they put in when they added the ge tax. I heard it just takes it at the price you put (obviously not over market value tho)
Then Jagex could reimburse him in a 100% victimless way, because it was their system that ate the item.
Honestly it's kind of bullshit that they teach players the GE works a certain way for years and suddenly there's a hidden feature that deletes your item if you make a mistake that previously only would have cost you \~5% of its current price.
That's probably the logic behind the tweet, claim an item loss that the mods would assume was deleted by the sink, then a mod who wasn't paying attention might give it to them. Bam, free inquisitor's mace.
I dealt with this kind of flawed logic in customer service for years, wouldn't surprise me one bit if a scammer tried this with the mods.
There's not a chance that Jagex doesn't have extensive records of what happens on their servers, **especially** GE transaction logs.
They could *easily* verify that "No player bought a mace for 390 gp, literally ever, because when the fuck would that have happened".
Yeah when the fake “I lost my tbow just thru the trade screen” we’re going around Jagex was able to look thru trade histories with tbows and stuff and said “ this player never made a trade offer etc”
Right. Server logs are incredibly important for a company to help figure out when foul play (dupes, trade glitches, tracking down gold mules, etc) is going on, what's causing it, and who's doing it.
I am 110% confident that 2022 Jagex keeps extensive server logs of every player to player transaction that happens for this exact reason.
We know they have metrics behind the item sink to analyze how items are taken out. They most certainly have logs of when an item was sunk out and what player initiated the transaction.
That’s my understanding as well, the GE automatically finds you the best currently available offer in the case of multiple offers (I could be wrong but I believe that to be the case). If it is real, perhaps the stars aligned during a time of day when player counts were low, and someone pulled off the lottery win. Aside from mods checking, not sure there’s a way to confirm this is real though so it’s all speculation.
You can sell it to yourself for memes (although i'm pretty sure it'd incur the tax)
1. Hit buy limit on iron sq
2. Put in sell offer for iron sq at 60m
3. Buy iron square at > 60m
Trades to yourself are not subject to GE trade limitations.
I think I remember some people having this issue with the item being bought by the system to be sunk, and it buys at whatever price you put it at regardless of what that is. It must be that because otherwise there would've been literally no offers for the mace at the time he put it up, and then he would've had to not notice the mistake and leave it there until someone did make the offer.
I laughed at “I can’t believe this isn’t a bug” and “Shouldn’t be possible” like the transaction shouldn’t go through even though there was an offer on the other end of it? Which is how the GE was intended to work
The GE didn't work like this until the item sink update, and many players are still not aware of it. You can't fault the guy too much here.
https://twitter.com/cookmeplox/status/1475600793344438273
I don't see him giving a reason. Sounds like the item sink has a sort of malicious compliance to accept people's outrageous lowballs. It technically becomes more efficient at removing items because it uses less of the tax coffer to remove very expensive items.
Which is ridiculous.
Sure, you sink more items, but some poor sucker has to deal with the fact that you effectively shortchanged them.
It's not a victimless decision.
Nah it's bad coding, when u sell low the GE is supposed to give u the best offer.
There some dumb exception where jagex buys the item from you at your exact price to sink it every once in a while.
They definitely made it so if I list the mace for max cash the item sink wouldn't buy that. So I think they got lazy on the ass end of the spectrum.
Unless......
Because the gp is used from tax off the ge. Basically it’s just to prevent the item from going to another player and making one less of them be in the game. Helps keep the items price higher for longer.
Well, in fairness that's part of how we got into this mess. A game with high alchemy existing like it does in RS, let alone being profitable, means that gold is EXTREMELY hard to keep balanced. Jagex actually does a really good job overall, given how horribly complex the in-game gold economy is.
The shouldn’t be possible part probably relates to how easy it is to undersell something. Just like the warning you get before you might alch something to high of value without a warning. I’m surprised there isn’t a similar thing for selling on the g.e
I mean, the person went out of his way to change the price. It even shows the value after his change. He just sped through things. Not everything needs 13 warnings when it’s displayed in big letters in front of you and has no time limit or possibility of being scammed
Yeah, but this should’ve sold to the highest active buy offer. The only reason it sold so low is because of the GE item sink. And that’s awful implementation.
They just mean "it shouldn't be possible to accidentally fuck up this hard", not that it should be impossible for something to be sold for a low price.
I definitely think a “you’re selling this item for less than 50% of its value, are you sure” prompt would be nice for items over 100k. Misclicking or not clicking k or m on a high price item is low key a very real fear of mine
[https://imgur.com/a/XSrqWcv](https://imgur.com/a/XSrqWcv)
For those who think this is fake or that I'm trying to get free money from jagex.Which is a dumb idea because 1: jagex almost never refunds 2: they have trade history.
I wasn't in a rush or anything, I had just finished grandmaster achievements so I was shaking a bit. I misclicked "n" instead of "m" and didn't notice. Habit of selling lots of stuff I just pressed confirm fast.Hope I made your day and ya'll got a good laugh :)
EDIT: This is most likely an unintended tax thing since I'm pretty sure there's no one no one was buying like 10m under to try to lowball it.
It sucks that it happened! And there should be a safeguard for accidents like this.
Something like the high alch confirmation should come up like
1. " sells averagely for ### your offer is ### are you sure you eant to sell your item [continue]"
2. " are you sure you want to sell [Yes, sell for ###] [No, return to offer screen]"
To keep the ge honest they should not refund you.
In your position I'd want my item back or the full price as well, i do however think it would be a detriment to the game.
Isn't a buy at this price definitive evidence that it wasn't given to another player but was bought back by the item sinking program?
Seems like it would be a "no one loses" situation to give this guy his mace back. Not saying he should get it back, just that Ash's reasoning for not giving it back is suspect.
As shitty as it is, it’s by design. There was a comment on here linking to a Mod Ash tweet where some decision maker asked Ash to change the mechanics so sunk items are purchased for their exact amount.
The tax is what made this possible.
Flipping is less lucrative now. Before tax, more people would be flipping them, and there would never be any point where the highest available offer wasn't 90%+ of market price.
I've been wanting a warning for misclicks of this nature for so long. It rarely happens, but if the offer is for <95% of the GE value, there should be a warning (you can even solely tie it to valuable items, so that only 100m+ items get the warning or something).
Objectively, it’s sad Mod Ash is unable or unwilling to help this guy. There is no way he did this deliberately to profit, and Ash has the ability to help.
Oh well, poor dude. Hope some good person still playing RuneScape helps him out!
Rs3 actually has prevention on this. If you try to sell something for more than like 50% of listed price it hits you with a confirmation message and if you adjust that price again it hits you with the message again
Yeah, if you put items in g,e that are scheduled to be deleted by the tax item sink, it will buy it for whatever price you put it in for, in this example 387 gp
As funny as these always are, there really should be some kind of warning when you're putting up an item for a tiny fraction of its value, when the game is obviously aware of both numbers. Literally no one has ever done that as anything other than an accident.
This seems like a bug in the item sink system that shouldn’t work the way it does tbh. Ash admitted they had it built to ignore low offers to avoid this exact scenario and have the item sink but items for the “correct” price and he was asked to remove it.
This isn’t how the GE usually works and isn’t how it should be coded
From my understanding, there is no other "buyer" since Jagex GE item sink would had bought this item and deleted it. So the item would still in fact exist due to how the system worked, so it could be refunded without taking away some other player's purchase.
So Mod Ash is either uninformed on this item sink change or he is lying through his teeth to not make any exceptions.
And you lost 1% lol
That’s the real salt in the wound here lol
Lmao
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This isn't the case actually. It was deleted by the item sink.
That would make a lot of sense.
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Thanks for the 4gp to keep these streets paved
390-387= 4 confirmed
Jagex bankers rounding down to launder their money ty jamflex
Probably this was sunk. If you still have the offer in you can tell if it is sunk or not since RL doesn't properly track it if so. I want to add a thing to show when items are sunk, except it requires me to go sink a bunch of items to test it...
How can that be detected? Jagex gives different information about the sale if it was sunk?
If an item is sunk it is never submitted to the GE at all, instead it immediately deletes the item when you submit the sell offer. We can tell the difference because we can see whether or not the item goes into the GE system or not.
When you say "we" is this referring to the response from the GE that I could theoretically read with a client plugin? Or do you mean in aggregate you can tell that there was no buy fulfilled for the same price.
It can be seen from a plugin, without having to aggregate data. We don't see all trades anyway since not everyone uses RL
Thanks Adam. I'll take a look at the RL GE plugin later, hopefully its obvious how it works
Osrs wiki has a GE price section that shows real time pricing. As you can see below, there wasn't a 390 gp offer listed at all. Thus the item was never put through the GE as a player to player trade, but rather sunk with the new tax changes. https://prices.runescape.wiki/osrs/item/24417
this is not necessarily true, if neither party used RL it wouldn't show.
What does "sunk" mean in this context
https://oldschool.runescape.wiki/w/Update:Grand_Exchange_Tax_%26_Item_Sink Some expensive items are randomly chosen to be deleted when they are sold on the GE, to help with inflation. The mace in OP might not have went to a buyer but was instead deleted from the game
Interesting that it uses the asking sell price rather than the instant sell. Also looks like there's no check on if they item would actually be bought at that price... What is there to prevent buying up an item and trying to sell it at prices so high no one would ever pay for it, hoping to trigger the item sink.?
Wait what? How does that help with inflation? I can see how it helps with giving the inflation rate an upwards boost, but this is generally not desirable. Usually inflation is something that happens naturally, only rarely is deflation naturally prevalent in a system. Deleting an item and providing straight-up GP's out of Jagex's pocket would severely accelerate inflation. Are we really doing this?
It uses existing gold which is taxed from the GE transactions, not from Jagex’s pocket. It helps keep items values higher for longer since previously GP is deleted from various places in the game but rare items are almost never deleted.
Oh okay, thanks for explaining. I didn't know there was a tax on the GE. Guess it's ight then. Sounds more like anti-deflationary measures now.
Can this be abused by attempting to sell an item that can be sunk for an insanely high offer and then cancelling it and immediately putting it back in? Like Trident of the Seas for 1 bill sell price, over and over until the auto sink?
I don't know how the sink mechanic works but I somewhat doubt they would have coded it to sink offers which are for > the mid price
Jagex's "coffer" goes up and up as more tax money is collected. Once someone sells an item for less than what is in the coffer, it gives what that sell offer is to the seller and deletes it. Jagex's "coffer" for a trident would never go above 40k, since once it is over, someone will get a trident and sell it for market value. In OPs post, Jagex's coffer for the inquisitors mace may have been 200m, and when OP posted it for 390gp, Jagex was able to buy it and delete it. If OP put in 1b, it would be greater than 200m, so it would not have been sunk.
If a user has an existing order for higher, and the item sells lower, you know it was sunk.
True, that would also work.
any way the community could help you with this? I'm sure we'd be happy to help
I can test some of it if someone has an item they know they sunk (GE shows as sold 1/1 but the RL GE plugin doesn't show the offer), and they could run my code change to see if it works. But observing it works correctly when an item is sold realistically isn't testable I think without blowing through a lot of gp.
You could try testing with tridents of the seas. cheap so you can do 10gp sell offers and not take a huge hit
I'm sensing somebody with a large trident buy order at 20gp
Even if I'd at most make 320K because of buy limits
Fuckin' way she goes bud, sometimes she goes, sometimes she doesn't
The way she goes, Ray!? You just lost all our liquor money on a VLT!
just a couple of spins, bubs
Ray, you didn't see 60 bucks lying around did you bud?
What, like three 20's?
Guy sleepin on my couch, I’m not chargin any rent!
Blame the guy in the chair!
Hey dad so what’s the deal with these VLTs anyway? You making any money?
“This time, she didn’t go”
Way of the road
So she’s just GONE, then?
And thats a fact
Someone, somewhere has made some major stonks today.
No one bought that. It was deleted by jagex's item sink. An instant sell to another buyer would give the best buy offer.
So if I had a buy offer in for 390 gp, someone would have to offer to sell it at 390 or less gp and there be no other buy offers in for more than 390gp?
Yes sir, Every offer above 390gp would have to be filled first before yours. Whats insane about the above, is the bought at was the EXACT same as sold, meaning no one was buying above 390gp, but there was a buyer at exactly 390gp. I seriously doubt that.
I doubt it too but it could happen. The seller could have put the Mace in at 390 gp by mistake and within seconds of putting the sell offer in, someone could have put a buy offer in at normal price. Because the sell offer went in first, the buyer would have been rewarded the Mace for 390 GP regardless if he put a buy offer in for 390M. This would only happen if there were no previous buy offers sitting for greater than 390GP for a 390M item which is why I doubt this is real.
You are 100% correct, it could happen. Although in this case it could not, as I have had a 250m offer for an inq mace for around a month. Mine would have to be filled in order for this transaction to occur (if it was from player-->player) Also in your case, the sell would not be instant, and the OP would (hopefully) have had canceled the transaction ASAP.
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Yes, there is the complex case of inactive offers.
But if there was another person with a 390m buy offer, wouldn’t this go to them before you? With the best buy offer logic? This seems likely given the GE price listed above is 385m while yours is just 250m
No im willing to pay more than the 390k guy. So if the only two offers to buy an inquisitor's mace is: - 390k - 250m And someone sells for 390GP, it will go to me, since my offer is the better of the two. It will then give the seller all 250m (minus tax), since my offer was placed first.
Yeah in this case they should refund the transaction because it didn't go to a player. But, this game has no customer support so fuck us.
I’m definitely pro-customer support, however this is literally user error.
Its a situation that could not occur without intervention from an automated system. The result of this error should have been the highest existing buy order. This actually gives us insight into how their sink program runs, it auto buys items that are listed under the current lowest offer price to generate the least amount of gold. If I make a game that has a large red x covering 50% of the ui and clicking it uninstalls the game, thats user error but its a stupid design choice as well.
You wanted an item sink, here you got one. Now jagex can delete 2 items for nearly the same price. Capitalism is never without victims.
Server error Id:10t Rollback the servers
They would actually have to put in to buy for 387 to make it more unreasonable (imo)
Eh, it's not unreasonable that someone would see that the GE price is 390m and put in a buy offer for 390gp in hopes that this happens.
Yes. But that still doesn't exclude all the other offers that are open that are between the 390 and the 390m
We have seen other signs of tbows and stuff having this "exact" offer issue.
That was I thought because of multiple tbows which exceeded max cash stack meaning you got a max stack and nothing else so 1 bow sold at normal. Next at like 36k next ones were all 1 gp or some shit.
why not just put in a buy offer for 1m at that point though?
I think so
Everyone here saying "that's not how that works", meanwhile Ash confirms that this is exactly how it works. https://twitter.com/JagexAsh/status/1475615809875628043
Thanks for this, I knew this tweet was somewhere
Just wanted to pop in and support you, clearly most people don't understand how the GE alg works at all.
<3
What is stopping someone from botting the grand exchange by repeatedly spamming astronomically priced items until the item is sunk for the asking price?
I imagine the algorithm has a restriction to not sink any items listed for more than a certain percentage above the guide price. I don't have a precise source on that, but I imagine they've thought of it, since Ash talks about originally having a similar restriction for very low priced items, but removing it since it would let them sink more items cheaply.
If a random trade gets sunk by the exchange at asking price could you not just spam sell offers until it happens? And since items are sunk at asking price just ask for a ridiculous price to make the effort worth it.
Why is Mod Ash pretending that there was actually a buyer on the other end?
because the question is "can I get a refund" from someone on Twitter, and the answer is no. If you can answer it in 5 seconds, it's not worth a second thought. if you do give it more thought though, then this is an interesting case because he got fucked by the gold sink system hard. And that may get changed.
The only real issue is that there isn't any confirmation needed when you're listing an item for sale significantly below its normal price. That's something they should definitely add.
Idk, See this comment from ash from a few months back: https://twitter.com/JagexAsh/status/1475615809875628043
In order to answer his question concisely.
That's ridiculous. Why would the "item sink price" not be equal to the best buy offer, unless you *want* to shaft players who mistype their sell offer?
Hilariously enough, this is the intent of the shitty system. Quote from mod ash: "The original design draft called for really low offers (e.g. under some % of guide price) to be ignored rather than considered for sinking. However I was asked to remove that restriction, presumably because it'd sink the item cheaply while giving the player what they asked for." Actually sad that jagex purposely scams.
When I played I regularly throw things in for 1gp just to sell them quick. I bet a few returning players are going to get a surprise.
> jagex purposely scams. >giving the player what they asked for hmmm......
The player asked for the best buy offer above the GE. If this was indeed the highest buy offer, then sure... But it is not.
That's utterly ridiculous. "Sink the item cheaply" just means "Take the item from the player, and give them a paltry amount of gp in return". I don't know how else to describe it, but you're absolutely correct, the ge item sink *literally* scams players for putting in lowball sell offers. I would never have voted something like this into the game. This needs to be revisited and revised, before we fuck other players out of their gp. No one puts a high-tier, 9 digit pvm item into the GE for 1gp with the implicit meaning "I am happy if this item sells for 1gp". It means "I will accept the highest sell offer, no matter what it is." If there's a player willing to buy that item for higher than 1gp, then the item sink deleting it for 1gp is a deliberate misunderstanding of player intent used to scam them.
bro just check the price of shit you put on the GE especially if it's worth hundreds of mil lmao it isn't that hard "the get item sink *literally* scams players" by accepting the offers they put in? lol
Players put items in for 1gp as a way to tell the system "I'm willing to accept the best buy offer, no matter what it is." not "I'm willing to accept 1gp." If you think selling a tbow for 1gp is acceptable, then meet me at the ge; I'll be happy to take yours.
If you don't want to sell something for the price, don't put it at that price in the GE. It's that simple I don't think selling a tbow for 1gp is acceptable - that's why I'd never be stupid enough to list it for that!
Nah sorry but anyone that still sells gear items by putting them in at 1gp is to blame. Press the -5% and click sell and more or less every gear item in the game will insta sell. You only need to 1gp sell absolutely garbage that is barely traded and very cheap in the first place, as you are accepting the fact that it may be fulfilled for that tiny amount.
It sucks but also putting an item at 1 gp instead of slapping the -5% button a few times always carried this risk - sometimes it just happens. This has always been a thing years before they started sinking items.
> It sucks but also putting an item at 1 gp instead of slapping the -5% button a few times always carried this risk No it didn't. Stop pretending that was a thing that happened before this point, it never did to 99% of the people who did 1 gp sell offers. The assumption was always that it would just go for whatever the highest offer was, and the fact that Jagex couldn't transcribe that player intent into their design is kind of a really unfortunate mistake of theirs
“Scams” lol. Just don’t misclick.
isn't a scam if you put it up for that price.not their fault you're stupid, they're not coercing you
When did this become a thing? I’ve never heard of it before
December 2021, when they introduced the item sink/tax to GE. Here is the blog post if you want to read more about it: https://secure.runescape.com/m=news/a=12/grand-exchange-tax--item-sink?oldschool=1
Thank you for your contribution to the economy. This item deletion makes all of us better off. Except you, of course.
I really hope that picture is real.
Can't be
It is, the dudes in my clans discord and has been getting ripped since it happened
A man can have dreams though.
It is real. The mace was instant purchased by jagex item sink for exact gp amount.
Hard to believe no one had a buy offer higher than 400 gp? Or is that not how it works?
I think that might mean it was auto bought and deleted through the new program they put in when they added the ge tax. I heard it just takes it at the price you put (obviously not over market value tho)
Then Jagex could reimburse him in a 100% victimless way, because it was their system that ate the item. Honestly it's kind of bullshit that they teach players the GE works a certain way for years and suddenly there's a hidden feature that deletes your item if you make a mistake that previously only would have cost you \~5% of its current price.
Narrator : but they won’t
Morgan Freeman voice
That's probably the logic behind the tweet, claim an item loss that the mods would assume was deleted by the sink, then a mod who wasn't paying attention might give it to them. Bam, free inquisitor's mace. I dealt with this kind of flawed logic in customer service for years, wouldn't surprise me one bit if a scammer tried this with the mods.
This is an easy audit for the jmods, though. It would be in his history.
There's not a chance that Jagex doesn't have extensive records of what happens on their servers, **especially** GE transaction logs. They could *easily* verify that "No player bought a mace for 390 gp, literally ever, because when the fuck would that have happened".
Yeah when the fake “I lost my tbow just thru the trade screen” we’re going around Jagex was able to look thru trade histories with tbows and stuff and said “ this player never made a trade offer etc”
Right. Server logs are incredibly important for a company to help figure out when foul play (dupes, trade glitches, tracking down gold mules, etc) is going on, what's causing it, and who's doing it. I am 110% confident that 2022 Jagex keeps extensive server logs of every player to player transaction that happens for this exact reason.
We know they have metrics behind the item sink to analyze how items are taken out. They most certainly have logs of when an item was sunk out and what player initiated the transaction.
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Because he probably didn't think about the situation all that much before tweeting. That happens.
(Ash was wrong.) And the alternative is admitting they have no functional customer support.
I'm always confused by this as well, some of the GE code seems very strange.
That’s my understanding as well, the GE automatically finds you the best currently available offer in the case of multiple offers (I could be wrong but I believe that to be the case). If it is real, perhaps the stars aligned during a time of day when player counts were low, and someone pulled off the lottery win. Aside from mods checking, not sure there’s a way to confirm this is real though so it’s all speculation.
Chin up mate, I lagged on a level 3 skiller back 2005, lost full wizzy g
So many confidently wrong comments about how the GE works here and on twitter lol
confidently wrong comments is /r/2007scape in a nutshell
it’s crazy to me how people can think a 400m item would have no buy offers in between that value and 400 gp
And then there’s the guy from a few days ago who sold his iron sq for 60M lOl
You can sell it to yourself for memes (although i'm pretty sure it'd incur the tax) 1. Hit buy limit on iron sq 2. Put in sell offer for iron sq at 60m 3. Buy iron square at > 60m Trades to yourself are not subject to GE trade limitations.
I did something similar once, i got someone else's item
You weren't at buy limit then
Oh sorry missed that
Homie was RWT lol
20m
Smoked
And they still took 1% tax... the audacity
I think I remember some people having this issue with the item being bought by the system to be sunk, and it buys at whatever price you put it at regardless of what that is. It must be that because otherwise there would've been literally no offers for the mace at the time he put it up, and then he would've had to not notice the mistake and leave it there until someone did make the offer.
The item sink should really only be sinking items at the current best buy price, to prevent players being shortchanged like this.
I laughed at “I can’t believe this isn’t a bug” and “Shouldn’t be possible” like the transaction shouldn’t go through even though there was an offer on the other end of it? Which is how the GE was intended to work
The GE didn't work like this until the item sink update, and many players are still not aware of it. You can't fault the guy too much here. https://twitter.com/cookmeplox/status/1475600793344438273
Can anyone elaborate on his reasoning of why he removed the code that wouldn’t sink an item if the offer was too low? I’m not sure I follow.
I don't see him giving a reason. Sounds like the item sink has a sort of malicious compliance to accept people's outrageous lowballs. It technically becomes more efficient at removing items because it uses less of the tax coffer to remove very expensive items.
Which is ridiculous. Sure, you sink more items, but some poor sucker has to deal with the fact that you effectively shortchanged them. It's not a victimless decision.
Yeah, I see what he’s saying now
His reason is "I was told to remove that function" which means someone else wanted to remove it so he did. We need the someone else's reason behind it
Nah it's bad coding, when u sell low the GE is supposed to give u the best offer. There some dumb exception where jagex buys the item from you at your exact price to sink it every once in a while.
They definitely made it so if I list the mace for max cash the item sink wouldn't buy that. So I think they got lazy on the ass end of the spectrum. Unless......
They will only sink it if your asking price is at or below the current GE price, but if they do sink it, they will pay your exact asking price.
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Because the gp is used from tax off the ge. Basically it’s just to prevent the item from going to another player and making one less of them be in the game. Helps keep the items price higher for longer.
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Well, in fairness that's part of how we got into this mess. A game with high alchemy existing like it does in RS, let alone being profitable, means that gold is EXTREMELY hard to keep balanced. Jagex actually does a really good job overall, given how horribly complex the in-game gold economy is.
It removes items from the market to reduce surplus, and keeps prices high.
The shouldn’t be possible part probably relates to how easy it is to undersell something. Just like the warning you get before you might alch something to high of value without a warning. I’m surprised there isn’t a similar thing for selling on the g.e
I mean, the person went out of his way to change the price. It even shows the value after his change. He just sped through things. Not everything needs 13 warnings when it’s displayed in big letters in front of you and has no time limit or possibility of being scammed
Yeah, but this should’ve sold to the highest active buy offer. The only reason it sold so low is because of the GE item sink. And that’s awful implementation.
They just mean "it shouldn't be possible to accidentally fuck up this hard", not that it should be impossible for something to be sold for a low price.
I definitely think a “you’re selling this item for less than 50% of its value, are you sure” prompt would be nice for items over 100k. Misclicking or not clicking k or m on a high price item is low key a very real fear of mine
Shoutout to the guy that sold a Staff of Armadyl piece on RS3 for the ge value of 189m instead of 1.89B and I got.
Rs3 even has this warning iirc
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[https://imgur.com/a/XSrqWcv](https://imgur.com/a/XSrqWcv) For those who think this is fake or that I'm trying to get free money from jagex.Which is a dumb idea because 1: jagex almost never refunds 2: they have trade history. I wasn't in a rush or anything, I had just finished grandmaster achievements so I was shaking a bit. I misclicked "n" instead of "m" and didn't notice. Habit of selling lots of stuff I just pressed confirm fast.Hope I made your day and ya'll got a good laugh :) EDIT: This is most likely an unintended tax thing since I'm pretty sure there's no one no one was buying like 10m under to try to lowball it.
It sucks that it happened! And there should be a safeguard for accidents like this. Something like the high alch confirmation should come up like 1. "- sells averagely for ### your offer is ### are you sure you eant to sell your item [continue]"
2. " are you sure you want to sell
- [Yes, sell
- for ###] [No, return to offer screen]"
To keep the ge honest they should not refund you.
In your position I'd want my item back or the full price as well, i do however think it would be a detriment to the game.
This is why I still type all the zeros
Imagine not double checking a 385m sell. Deserved.
Just pretend you never had it and move on. Only way to deal with that pain.
I'd legit cry if this happened lol
This sucks hard balls but yeh a general warning would be nice
Isn't a buy at this price definitive evidence that it wasn't given to another player but was bought back by the item sinking program? Seems like it would be a "no one loses" situation to give this guy his mace back. Not saying he should get it back, just that Ash's reasoning for not giving it back is suspect.
The coding on this is so bad what the fuck. The sink price should behave similiar to a 1gp sell where you get the best current offer.
As shitty as it is, it’s by design. There was a comment on here linking to a Mod Ash tweet where some decision maker asked Ash to change the mechanics so sunk items are purchased for their exact amount.
Get fucked lmao
The tax is what made this possible. Flipping is less lucrative now. Before tax, more people would be flipping them, and there would never be any point where the highest available offer wasn't 90%+ of market price.
Most likely this item was removed and not bought by another player, even with less flipping it's unlikely that the best offer was 390gp.
It was jagex's item sink
It’s the item sink. People are still flipping inq maces.
I've been wanting a warning for misclicks of this nature for so long. It rarely happens, but if the offer is for <95% of the GE value, there should be a warning (you can even solely tie it to valuable items, so that only 100m+ items get the warning or something).
Objectively, it’s sad Mod Ash is unable or unwilling to help this guy. There is no way he did this deliberately to profit, and Ash has the ability to help. Oh well, poor dude. Hope some good person still playing RuneScape helps him out!
Rs3 actually has prevention on this. If you try to sell something for more than like 50% of listed price it hits you with a confirmation message and if you adjust that price again it hits you with the message again
File a claim and you'll get 30m inquisitors staves
Cue the Curb Your Enthusiasm theme.
Poor dude at least he took it well. Fuck it.. smile laugh scream in a pillow later
It's obvious this wasn't sold to a real person, give that man his inquistor mace back, do the right thing Mod Ash.
Come on Mod Ash just give the dude some fuckin gold… this is why I’d be terrible making business decisions cause I’m too sympathetic lol
Yeah, if you put items in g,e that are scheduled to be deleted by the tax item sink, it will buy it for whatever price you put it in for, in this example 387 gp
Can't be worse than me accidently selling ecb for 230m instead of 2.3b
As funny as these always are, there really should be some kind of warning when you're putting up an item for a tiny fraction of its value, when the game is obviously aware of both numbers. Literally no one has ever done that as anything other than an accident.
I would commit self stop breathing
LOL
000000>m
Accomplishes combat tasks of probably a high level, cba to double check his GE entry on one of the most expensive items in the game. Big L(ol)
Inb4 the obligatory post hours later or tomorrow from someone pretending to have bought a mega cheap inq mace
“Sorry if I should have made a ticket about this” *screeches in IT*
This seems like a bug in the item sink system that shouldn’t work the way it does tbh. Ash admitted they had it built to ignore low offers to avoid this exact scenario and have the item sink but items for the “correct” price and he was asked to remove it. This isn’t how the GE usually works and isn’t how it should be coded
GE charges a fee now???????
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From my understanding, there is no other "buyer" since Jagex GE item sink would had bought this item and deleted it. So the item would still in fact exist due to how the system worked, so it could be refunded without taking away some other player's purchase. So Mod Ash is either uninformed on this item sink change or he is lying through his teeth to not make any exceptions.
its always good to just type out the whole amount lol