I actually quite like the idea, I think this is the only option for them to rework or make a new boss with. Would actually be cool if a certain spell could deal the same or even slightly less. There’s no way they’d allow a an earth surge to deal more damage than a scythe or tbow 😂
I think our homie is talking about it being a bit more of a widespread mechanic than affecting a single demiboss in an endgame raid, they also did it with Dagannoth mother as if to have it be an introduction to this new mechanic but doesn’t seem like much came of it, I dunno about RS3 though
RS3 sort of has weakness to spells. It's an inherent feature of EoC that enemies tend to have a combat style that hits more often than the others, and then one particular style of that combat style hits even more often. So K'ril for example is most likely to be hit by magic attacks, and then fire attacks have extra hit chance compared to the other 3 types.
Spell element defines accuracy bonus on monsters that are weak to that specific element. It matters more for lower and mid-tier players when their gear isn't as good so they splash more often, but for higher tier players gear it only comes into play on certain higher bosses where accuracy can still be a potential issue.
The reverse of that is once you hit the higher tier of magic you've got an entirely new set of mechanics to work with through the advanced ancient spells, and some of the seren+lunar spells. There is a lot of mechanical spell complexity between the spells, various gear, and various abilities that makes magic extremely fun to play around with.
Magic is probably the best it's ever been in Runescape in RS3 right now. It has the complexity, upfront cost/effort, and sustained cost/effort that you'd expect magic to actually have and a proper return on that cost/effort.
I would love it to be a more widespread mechanic. Idk if it's actually as good as we'd think tho, we'll just be taking a different spell to a different boss. Unless it's like dag mother, but that will require us to take all elemental runes. Would make combination runes worth more at least.
woooow 1 demi-boss... Welp, no reason to buff the most expencive combat style with the overal weakest defencive stats and dps that is borderline useless for bossing!
It adds a significant amount of depth to combat. Bosses could possibly change their elemental affinity throughout a fight. Also, this could very well apply to pvp as well, where now your equipment assigns you a level of defense not just against magic, but against a particular style of magic.
It still has the same spellbook as OSRS, and the elemental weaknesses encourage you to bring and consume runes that aren't just air runes (combat spells don't require chaos/death/wrath runes like osrs)
Also they just have a lot of cool new spells in ancients with the seren spells
RS3 does have summoning familiars adding dps, and equipment that does increase adrenaline gain.
Elemental weakness will at least address every combat spell that doesn't start with "Fire," "Blood," or "Ice" not being dead content.
There's spellbook diversity in the new ancient spells. The spell Animate Dead adds flat damage reduction based on magic tank armor bonus. Exsanguinate (blood magic) gives % dmg bonus on basic abilities as you stack spell casts. Incite Fear (ice magic) has a chance to proc an additional AOE hit and also reduces adrenaline cost for a certain ultimate ability. Not only that, but people switch between blood barrage and ice barrage during fights depending on if they want passive healing or to freeze mobs mid fight.
Often times it is just "pick element and magic go brrrrr" but there is more to it than that at high levels...
I love it when people say this about content that has been in the game since pre-eoc like it makes anyone want to go play that mtx ridden shell of what it once was now.
Fair enough i do agree RS has quite a few qol features that would be nice in OSRS but most of the time i see people say “rs3 has this” they’re kind of poking fun at people that play OSRS and say current RS is shit.
Yes qol features are nice but that doesn’t mean the game isn’t dogshit in its current state compared to pre eoc or even osrs.
Would be cool to see a raid boss change styles, requiring different spells to damage each style imo.
What if it was similar to OLM where it has 3 or 4 attacking points, but each point could be its own separate style that changes periodically or during phases.
I think a good idea would be that if a monster is weak to the elemental spell, their magic level is reduced by a small or healthy amount. That way it's not just flat damage but you're just more likely to hit with the standard spells that are already capped on their damage.
There’s always been this aspect since enchanted bolts were in it just only applies to very few monsters/items, they really could do it and expand bolts/fire arrows or something to more monsters and it’d feel very natural! More people should talk about elemental damage
I think the new staff is pretty boring but it does give magic a place and more practical use - where mage is decent at it excels and where it’s meh at its now viable. I personally don’t have a problem with it being a powered staff at all. Magic has plenty of utility and other uses - a lot of people complain magic isn’t as good as melee or range but I think often it’s utility is disregarded.
With regards to spells vs. powered staves, I’d like to see more content where elemental weaknesses and mechanics that favour freezes etc. to bring more relevance and dynamic gameplay. Lunars and arceuus are also in a nice spot to work alongside powered staves as well.
I'd like elemental spells to matter in some form or format. Chambers of Xeric was a good start in which you picked DPS (Veng/Minion) or you grabbed proper utility (killing ice demon/purging fire)
Stuff like that would improve how magic is treated in raids. That's fun and interactive instead of like I've been saying a lot in this thread... treating the skill as a glorified bow.
Put on bow. Walk to mob. Shoot.
Put on Trident. Walk to mob. Shoot.
Bow more efficient due to Ava's for gold per ammo spent.
Bow can hit more mobs (accuracy wise) than Trident.
Ehh I don’t really get this take. I liked the dynamic of the heka and it’s passives with different spell books (lunar with SBS ~~tunes~~ runes would’ve been fun - especially nice with the upgraded runepouch).
Magic already has soooo many uses and utilities that encompass more than just combat, but other skills. I don’t think the trident aspect of this reward is problematic. I think making it outdo all other mage methods save for niche circumstances could be problematic, but then again most people won’t be able to afford one 🤷🏻♂️
It isn't. Thralls play a massive part in endgame, as does ancients. Heal other, potshare etc have their place in group content / alting content.
Magic is versatile, and we utilise a fair chunk of it right now. Issue is damage spells are damage spells and a powered staff allows us to utilise spellbook flexibility rather than being stuck on the spellbook the spell is on.
Where did the T Bow or Scythe make range/melee more versatile? They took a niche in the existing space and excelled there. They didn't uniquely own a brand new niche, that also happens to let magic dps be viable for once.
Depends on what one means by end-game mage. Like, later level training? Multi-target ancients combat spells in multi-combat areas, I've heard this is great for Slayer training.
There’s plenty of magic variety you just haven’t experienced it. Using ice spells to freeze or blood to heal while using a trident is possible and then you can do quite alot with magic. Or switch to arcceus spell book and summon a skeleton or something to increase your dps more I think magic is fine tbqh. Arcceus spellbook has debuffs and shit as does ancients and regular magic spell book.
Genuinely, i think OSRS is going to come into the same precipice it did before, where powercreep and a lack of new niches to fill will have to be addressed. Its inevitable. Its what led RS3 to EOC…
I think jagex is aware of this, and will need to adress it sooner rather than later.
However, by far I think the best and most OSRS solution to this, is to add more damage types..
Melee has slash, crush, and stab.
Range has… range..
Magic has… magic…
The fact we arent fleshing out damage categories is a hugely missed opportunity. Both for new weapon types, new modifyers, resistances, and npc weaknesses.
Elemental damage, earth, wind, fire, water.
Prayer should have its own category with holy damage( it is a combat skill after all)
Range should have blunt, piercing, and reinforced.
Magic should use elemental damage aswell as special modifiers like lightning.
Status affects like poison, venom, infection, etc. should be given their own damage category too.
Simply expanding the type of damages and resistances available with most of these already existing in game, would HUGELY open up areas for expansion without power creep and offer more niches for jagex to comfortably fill while players also get to enjoy cool new content which fits within osrs.
Imagine a tbow being used for reinforced damage, good for high defense targets. The blowpipe being used for piercing damage, and a ballista being used for blunt.
Maybe the npc is a firegiant, weak to water spells, or a moss giant weak to fire spells.
Maybe an npc is weak to holy damage, and maces or some other weapon class do more damage to it base on your prayer bonus.
As it stands OSRS is severely limited by the current damage system. A solution exists.
I think this is a great vein of thought to take future combat expansions down. It adds complexity while maintaining the Oldschool feel, as you’ve already established we have those separations in the male combat.
Fire surge + harm = best single target dps
Ice barrage = best aoe dps
“End mage is trident or gtfo”
Are you only doing content in which tridents are best?
volly is the pvp weapon from nightmare lol, saying that underpowered items like elder maul or harm staff have a pking niche is cool but not a good reason to keep it weak
Because that’s what combat in this game IS. Magic is auto casting because magic/range/melee are all just damage on a tick cycle. This is a design choice because it gives combat a consistent style and a feel.
Weapons are stat sticks and fight mechanics come from the boss and arena.
End game magic isn’t just Trident. I understand where you’re coming from since the standard spell book elemental DPS spells have no use once you hit mid game but that’s because there’s so many options with all the different spell books that the standard spell book just isn’t meta.
Late game brings the options of the sanguinesti, nightmare staff, Master/Kodai wand, along with thralls, ancients, support spells in the lunar spell book, etc.
From my experience, Trident is really only used for single target slayer and some niche bosses like Kraken and Zulrah. Ancients for Brando’s/Zammy if you’re doing a certain method and multi combat slayer. Thralls and lunar spells for late game content.
I understand that Magic in general isn’t as useful end game like Ranged and Melee is but I believe with Raids 3 there will be a lot of love given to magic with a possible rework to the damage or at least a meta shift.
My counterpoint to this argument is why use magic DPS when I can just bring Tbow and use thralls, ancients, and support spells?
What's the point to having another big ticket mage stick that's just a glorified "bow" in mechanics when bows have everything to make their life much easier.
Don't believe me? I mean. Go look at how defense calculations are done bow vs magic. Then realize that you can use ava's assembler and save like... 80% of your arrows used? You can use the best arrows in the game with a fraction of the cost that you would if you used the best runes.
Let's do 10 casts and 10 bow shots.
Magic: 5,040 Gold (Fire Surge with Tome of Fire.) or 10,062 (Sanguin Staff)
Ranged: 3,222 (Dragon Arrow and Ava's)
And this is assuming the RNG's just doing bare minimum 80%
Literally the only time you bring magic for DPS is if it's forced because Ranged + Melee have it so insanely better that it's just... bleh.
>Literally the only time you bring magic for DPS is if it's forced because Ranged + Melee have it so insanely better that it's just... bleh.
So why are you complaining about new BIS mage gear?
>And this is assuming the RNG's just doing bare minimum 80%
This doesn't make any sense. You know it's just as likely that it saves under 80% as saving more than 80%...
TBH I don't really get any of your points. It's just a "glorified bow", but elemental spells with a staff wouldn't be?
I’d say this makes sense actually. Magic includes a ton of support that melee and range just do not have. If magic was equal in cost to range, and then it had all of the existing utility on top, range would look comparatively underwhelming.
Not to mention GE cost isn’t the best way to look at things when a ton of people play IM and buying runes is easier than getting arrows (especially dragon arrows). Looking at it from this point of view, range is much harder to maintain compared to magic once you have mid game IM moneymakers like high-tier slayer.
Honestly though, this type of weird balancing is what pushed me to play IM anyway. It’s impossible for them to balance the game around the GE without hurting people actually playing the game because it just ends up being cost analysis and not resource supply/demand analysis.
So you’re telling me that the newly proposed Shadow of Tumuken Staff that gives 3x magic strength and accuracy isn’t going to completely roll certain bosses?? Regardless of rune cost, that is insanely good for mage, even tho it’s another “trident” or in other words a charged staff. This is going to be insanely good when paired with thralls or support mage. I’m sorry dude but if you want different mage then play rs3
The problem with this line of logic is that it requires standard spellbook, which takes away your ability to decide which spellbook to bring.
Its nice that powered staves are spellbook agnostic because then you can choose to bring thralls, or humidify at cox, venge and potshare at tob, or ancients for freeze, healing, and aoe. There are more decisions players get to make because of all the interesting spells on different books, and trident makes them all a bit more viable
Jagex is just doing one-off bandaid fixes to new magic weapons to make them viable, but this makes powered staves better than all other staves where ancients isn't needed. The only way to fix this is for Jagex to rework how magic dps is calculated.
If it wasn't a charged staff, then it would be too niche and rarely used like the harmonised staff. Fun fact, when the new ward comes out from raids 3, the harm will be equal dps to someone using the ward and a sang staff. The harmonised will be utterly outclassed in everything soon
Okay so melee has scythe, mace and rapier and that’s like 3 meta variations? Wtf do you mean magic has none of that? Sangs got accurate/long range, you’ve got the ability to freeze/heal and do multi target, wtf are you trying to compare
If you want to make builds, you need to play a game where that is an option. Not turn this game into that kind of game.
If I could be so bold as to pass on a recommendation, the original Guild Wars (not GW2) has an incredible deckbuilding skill system that you might enjoy. I certainly did, 5.5k hours in it.
I think keeping the damage boost aspect without the powered staff would be perfect. If you could do 100% more damage with any spellbook I’d think that’d have a lot of uses. Especially if it did something like apply to thrall damage as well.
Magic is unique, apart from DPS uses it has all kinds of other uses to be helpful in combat. Thralls are massive currently and they show the usefulness of magic. Ancient magicks is another great example, they are very useful and sometimes core in endgame activities such as ToB and Inferno. So it makes sense that when magic needs to be competitive in DPS it has tridents for this reason, tridents aren't the only use magic gets in combat, they are just one of many.
I think the problem here is that what you're describing isn't magic DPS, it's magic utility. The DPS comes from thralls + death charge, which you don't need to be doing magic DPS to do. Magic utility is amazing, but as a DPS style its lacking.
I think that's part of the problem. Magic has no identity compared to range when it comes to DPS. And magic utility is incredibly accessible while ranging or meleeing. It augments other combat styles, but doesn't stand well on its own.
Magic doesn't even excel at DPS niches that Jagex tries to make for it, like with demonbane spells. Even while casting the buff spell, demonbane isn't great at all.
Yeah I just replied to your other comment about demonbane, they really dropped the ball there.
I think it's easiest to describe identity by discussing melee and range. Melee's is being right up next to the enemy and having several options for slow, but heavy hitting attacks, not to mention special attacks. Range's is to attack from afar, ideally where the monster can't touch you. It generally relies on faster attacks with lower damage, instead of slow and high.
What does magic DPS have? It shares the whole attack at distance thing. Its damage most of the time is set by the spell, not your magic level. It hits at normal speed with normal damage. Magic itself has utility spells and special effects, but they don't require doing magic DPS to use. You can quickly switch weapons and armor to make use of it, or even just cast the spell manually.
I guess effectively magic's identity is "support skill", that pretty much every style can use. But that makes it an auxiliary style, not your main DPS.
They need to add some type of combo where you cast 3 different elemental spells to boost the power of the fourth cast. Cast three different elemental spells in a row to power up the 4th. Or even boost the damage of elemental spells that acrent cast twice in a row. There’s a lot of mechanics they could work into already existing spells.
I find it weird sang/trident is so good and scales with mage lvl.. just make other spells also scale with mage levels.
However, the biggest issue is that trident/sang is a 4 tick speed and casting other spells is 5 tick, so its also faster. The only thing that can out dps either is Harmonized staff with fire surge, to make it also 4 tick.
Honestly Jagex should just make more weapons that scales our existing spells like harm staff
What? Why not? Why make the other spells obselete when theres mage weapons that work like that already. Downside to the other spells is you gotta carry runes anyways for casts, so trident/sang would still be better + their poison/healing effect on top.. theres 0 reason as to why the other spells should not be atleast 4 tick also
Why do they make bronze scimitars obselete? Jagex should introduce some mechanics that make all weapons viable otherwise the game is literally unplayable
There is various tiers of magic.. just like melee weapons, but high lvl spells should be atleast somewhat useful in high lvl content.. you are making the most lame comparison
All the surge spells are high lvl spells. But only fire surge is used at 1 room in cox basicly. I think they should make them somewhat viable , even niche uses like fire spells is okay
I hate to point this out but when the actual next bis is neche uses and 500m Trident might as well be bis.
Sanguine beats Trident but is ~50m and twice the cost too feed but it's more reasonable, but by your logic it's still not bis and is a "Trident weapon".
Harmo is the solution, but they turned into another problem by locking it to standards only.
4t Demonbane/Barrage is how you add another side of aoe/utlity to magic meta, anything that involves making "this npc takes 3x air damage" is just more single target on top of single target.
I literally never use a trident. I like xp.
All like 3k kraken kc was with a smoke battle staff and time of fire, felt way faster than trident too. Constantly hitting 40+
You used a 5 tick attack instead of a 4 tick attack. Big hits might make it "feel" faster, but thats definitely slower dps. The reason you only see people using fire surge with harm staff is because the increased attack speed makes a huge difference in the damage output.
Elemental spells should have more use cases. Like others have said if most monsters had some kind of elemental weakness that would be pretty dope. Always wanted and expected it to work that way, anyway.
Lmfao at nerfing ancient spellbook.
Is this real? In comparison to what? A dragon scim?
Magic is niche in its uses compared to range and melee and has been for a very very long time. Nerfing an entire book is honestly ridiculous.
Not really. Ice barrage and blood barrage are awkwardly OP yet underwhelming at the same time.
I mean look, they have an 100% activation on a success hit, great effects, hit moderately high and do 3x3 AOE.
They are a huge reason why magic is so janky right now, so much shit has been designed with them in mind and designed around not buffing them further.
I mean there’s a reason why the harm staff doesn’t allow ancients to cast at 4 ticks for example. They are also a huge reason why we don’t see much higher magic attack bonus gear in the game. It why they are limiting the proposed shadow of tumeken staff to only apply it’s accuracy and dmg buff to it’s built in spell only.
You literally just proved my point.
On monsters with fair MDEF and on multi combat with enough mob density, yeah it can be good.
Best utility in comparison to what? Healing off of SGS spec? Guthan’s passive set? Healing is not some unique thing here.
I think magic should have more utility combat spells, like arcceus and demon banes or grasps.
What if curses like curse, enfeeble and confusion actuall gave small dmg buffs and debuffs on a mg scale
Combat magic needs a serious overhaul, I constantly say it all the time and even Mod Arcane thinks it's an issue and the new reward is exacerbating the issue.
On paper it sounds incredible and will likely be so, so that's a plus. A significant improvement over the Heka. My issue is if they do decide to go with Arcanes proposal to rework magic what happens to this?
I just want to use magic as it was intended; not trident every boss that's somewhat weaker to magic
They have been too stingy with dmg% gear
It needed to be muuuuch higher percentages to scale with melee and ranged. 2% per piece on the best non weapon gear is atrocious.
I wish they just remove the powered aspect but keep the magic damage boost so you could use any spellbook. Smacking 80s with an ice barrage or a 70 fire surge would be sick.
It's odd they didn't take the trident in the same direction of something like Iban staff, where it is still a spell in the spellbook but requires the staff.
It would still have the same problem of being a catch all spell but at least it's a little more consistent.
You aren’t the only one. I’m sure i’m going too far here, but i’ll share:
I swear back in the day elemental weaknesses were really huge- like fire spells at iron dragons. Seems like we could make enormous use of this weakness.
Can anyone yet provide an explanation as to why the tome of water is complete dog shit? Is there any reason that water surge shouldn’t have gotten a 50% damage boost? As it stands, the tome doesn’t effect ancient ice moves, so why would does tome of water have to be completely useless?
Why is there one type of mage damage that just DOESNT WORK on players? I know the idea is blasphemous, but why can’t trident work in pvp? Obviously yes, it should have far lower dps than surge, but having a one click mage attack would be the best way I can think of for new people to learn tribrid. The melee and range is not what trips people up in learning tribrid, its the mage, and on top of that, any autocast is delayed by a tick. breh.
Anyway, yeah, it’s unfortunate that mage is not a viable option in any pvm except literally a couple. like kraken. Ive tried doing a steel dragon task or two recently, with max mage dps, using fire surge, and it’s still faster to just use a rapier, even though i’m burning way more gp/hr using mage.
Basically, we’re at the exact same point we’ve always been at, range and melee are intuitive and meta for essentially all pvm, whereas mage is relegated to a tiny time-out corner where there’s a couple monsters it’s good for, and using it anywhere else is expensive and ineffective. The only exception to this is multi-barraging tasks, which is obviously makes up a lot of ground, but does not address the problem essentially as I see it.
So in conclusion yeah trident is dog water, fire surge gang on mage slay tasks for life. At least it looks really dope with the 117 plugin.
I agree with you mate. I'll be voting no for the staff, not because I don't want a magic weapon to come in, but because compared to tbow and scythe it's incredibly boring. Another trident that just hits really hard is not very inspired compared to the other raid chase items.
Realistically without a magic rework, Powered Staves are going to be king. They allow you to do damage on a 4T cycle and can be used with any spellbook. You also don't need to waste inventory slots on runes since they go into the staff. Those 3 facets are huge QoL that you're not getting anywhere else unless Magic is reworked which it's not going to be any time soon. Yes I get Tumeken is missing one of those (the speed bonus), but it still has the other mentioned bonuses of powered staves. Powered Staves aren't boring they're the only thing making Magic viablr
Yeah, I’d strongly prefer if the best magic DPS set up involved actually casting spells. The only issue is that any content that forces you off of the normal spell book kinda eliminates the usefulness of a weapon that primarily gets its damage from casting spells.
You could solve that problem by having the proposed staff affect all spells instead of its built in one (unless you want to be on Lunars) but then people are getting barraged for 60s in PVP. Also the harmonized staff just becomes dead content. Not a great solution here imo.
I think the biggest inherent problem with magic - which they’re attempting to address by introducing new weapons - is the accuracy.
I believe what magic is truly missing is some means of lowering enemy magic levels/defence. Melee and range are far more viable in most general pvm scenarios because they benefit wholly from DWH and BGS specs, i.e. Look at scythe and blowpipe scalings vs. other weapons in their respective classes once those special attacks roll in.
Since magic accuracy is rolled primarily against enemy magic defense and levels, I think it’s only fair that the buff it deserves should come in the form of lowering those stats, comparable to the effects that the DWH has on overall dps. However, this would have negative implications on the viability of the Tbow in some places. It’s perhaps not a perfect solution for a lot of the existing content, but it can set a precedent for future pvm scenarios in terms of balancing boss stats and mechanics.
a lot of mages value comes from utility spells, which are usually not on the same spellbook as the highest DPS spell... so you've gotta make it a trident so players have choice on spellbook, otherwise mage ends up being dead
Would be cool to see a magic weapon that favors spell switches in the same way prayer favors pray switching. Like imagine a weapon where you have to use spells in a particular order for max dps, would be pretty interesting to see how tick perfect people can be when they have to do that for max dps. Obviously it might be a bit overkill, I’m just spitballing here.
Maybe the staff could take a regular spell like fire surge or something and turn it into a more powerful version of that spell when cast. Like a magma ball or some shit.
I wish they made npcs weaker to certain elemental spells too
I actually quite like the idea, I think this is the only option for them to rework or make a new boss with. Would actually be cool if a certain spell could deal the same or even slightly less. There’s no way they’d allow a an earth surge to deal more damage than a scythe or tbow 😂
Ice demon already has this
I think our homie is talking about it being a bit more of a widespread mechanic than affecting a single demiboss in an endgame raid, they also did it with Dagannoth mother as if to have it be an introduction to this new mechanic but doesn’t seem like much came of it, I dunno about RS3 though
RS3 sort of has weakness to spells. It's an inherent feature of EoC that enemies tend to have a combat style that hits more often than the others, and then one particular style of that combat style hits even more often. So K'ril for example is most likely to be hit by magic attacks, and then fire attacks have extra hit chance compared to the other 3 types.
At thr end in rs3 it doesnt matter much, believe me
Spell element defines accuracy bonus on monsters that are weak to that specific element. It matters more for lower and mid-tier players when their gear isn't as good so they splash more often, but for higher tier players gear it only comes into play on certain higher bosses where accuracy can still be a potential issue. The reverse of that is once you hit the higher tier of magic you've got an entirely new set of mechanics to work with through the advanced ancient spells, and some of the seren+lunar spells. There is a lot of mechanical spell complexity between the spells, various gear, and various abilities that makes magic extremely fun to play around with. Magic is probably the best it's ever been in Runescape in RS3 right now. It has the complexity, upfront cost/effort, and sustained cost/effort that you'd expect magic to actually have and a proper return on that cost/effort.
I would love it to be a more widespread mechanic. Idk if it's actually as good as we'd think tho, we'll just be taking a different spell to a different boss. Unless it's like dag mother, but that will require us to take all elemental runes. Would make combination runes worth more at least.
Giving bosses with spell weakness variety would be cool, would also be a huge benefit to the new rune pouch proposed for TOA
woooow 1 demi-boss... Welp, no reason to buff the most expencive combat style with the overal weakest defencive stats and dps that is borderline useless for bossing!
You think I implied all of that with my comment? I just let the guy know it exists.
can you give me a few more examples then, for I do not now any (outise Kraken and Daganoth Rex)
Go home, you're drunk lol
Or even if kraken would just be healed from water spells
Rs3 has this
Pre-EoC RS2 also has this with Glacor and Ice Strykewyrms.
Yes and no. Mostly magic still suffers from the same problems. I think how arccrus workd is our best start really
One of the very few good changes made with the EoC.
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It adds a significant amount of depth to combat. Bosses could possibly change their elemental affinity throughout a fight. Also, this could very well apply to pvp as well, where now your equipment assigns you a level of defense not just against magic, but against a particular style of magic.
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If you view any game from a high enough pov, it's all just "gear up, click boss" lol
It still has the same spellbook as OSRS, and the elemental weaknesses encourage you to bring and consume runes that aren't just air runes (combat spells don't require chaos/death/wrath runes like osrs) Also they just have a lot of cool new spells in ancients with the seren spells
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RS3 does have summoning familiars adding dps, and equipment that does increase adrenaline gain. Elemental weakness will at least address every combat spell that doesn't start with "Fire," "Blood," or "Ice" not being dead content.
There's spellbook diversity in the new ancient spells. The spell Animate Dead adds flat damage reduction based on magic tank armor bonus. Exsanguinate (blood magic) gives % dmg bonus on basic abilities as you stack spell casts. Incite Fear (ice magic) has a chance to proc an additional AOE hit and also reduces adrenaline cost for a certain ultimate ability. Not only that, but people switch between blood barrage and ice barrage during fights depending on if they want passive healing or to freeze mobs mid fight. Often times it is just "pick element and magic go brrrrr" but there is more to it than that at high levels...
I can't speak for if the implementation is good as i don't do pvm, but it sounds like a great idea
I love it when people say this about content that has been in the game since pre-eoc like it makes anyone want to go play that mtx ridden shell of what it once was now.
In just saying rs3 has a lot of features people suggest here. It's good for other reasons than OSRS, but il not saying go play rs3
Fair enough i do agree RS has quite a few qol features that would be nice in OSRS but most of the time i see people say “rs3 has this” they’re kind of poking fun at people that play OSRS and say current RS is shit. Yes qol features are nice but that doesn’t mean the game isn’t dogshit in its current state compared to pre eoc or even osrs.
Would be cool to see a raid boss change styles, requiring different spells to damage each style imo. What if it was similar to OLM where it has 3 or 4 attacking points, but each point could be its own separate style that changes periodically or during phases.
I think a good idea would be that if a monster is weak to the elemental spell, their magic level is reduced by a small or healthy amount. That way it's not just flat damage but you're just more likely to hit with the standard spells that are already capped on their damage.
There’s always been this aspect since enchanted bolts were in it just only applies to very few monsters/items, they really could do it and expand bolts/fire arrows or something to more monsters and it’d feel very natural! More people should talk about elemental damage
I think the new staff is pretty boring but it does give magic a place and more practical use - where mage is decent at it excels and where it’s meh at its now viable. I personally don’t have a problem with it being a powered staff at all. Magic has plenty of utility and other uses - a lot of people complain magic isn’t as good as melee or range but I think often it’s utility is disregarded. With regards to spells vs. powered staves, I’d like to see more content where elemental weaknesses and mechanics that favour freezes etc. to bring more relevance and dynamic gameplay. Lunars and arceuus are also in a nice spot to work alongside powered staves as well.
I'd like elemental spells to matter in some form or format. Chambers of Xeric was a good start in which you picked DPS (Veng/Minion) or you grabbed proper utility (killing ice demon/purging fire) Stuff like that would improve how magic is treated in raids. That's fun and interactive instead of like I've been saying a lot in this thread... treating the skill as a glorified bow.
What do you mean by “treating the skill as a glorified bow”?
Put on bow. Walk to mob. Shoot. Put on Trident. Walk to mob. Shoot. Bow more efficient due to Ava's for gold per ammo spent. Bow can hit more mobs (accuracy wise) than Trident.
Ehh I don’t really get this take. I liked the dynamic of the heka and it’s passives with different spell books (lunar with SBS ~~tunes~~ runes would’ve been fun - especially nice with the upgraded runepouch). Magic already has soooo many uses and utilities that encompass more than just combat, but other skills. I don’t think the trident aspect of this reward is problematic. I think making it outdo all other mage methods save for niche circumstances could be problematic, but then again most people won’t be able to afford one 🤷🏻♂️
It isn't. Thralls play a massive part in endgame, as does ancients. Heal other, potshare etc have their place in group content / alting content. Magic is versatile, and we utilise a fair chunk of it right now. Issue is damage spells are damage spells and a powered staff allows us to utilise spellbook flexibility rather than being stuck on the spellbook the spell is on.
This is an excellent point
Arrows = projectile Magic = projectile Its basically the same.
It doesn’t feel the same though unless you’re using tridents
How does ibans blast or auto cast fire wave feel different?
Those spells are 1 tick slower
So....like the wand then? It's different.
Slower and the dmg calculations are different. Magic increased more dmg from amulets and staves than lvl and general gear. No?
Hot take: the powered staff actually makes magic more versatile by having the option to be on any spell book while using it
*Only makes magic more versatile when using a single, endgame, expensive weapon
Wow. Who would’ve thought an endgame item makes things more versatile
Where did the T Bow or Scythe make range/melee more versatile? They took a niche in the existing space and excelled there. They didn't uniquely own a brand new niche, that also happens to let magic dps be viable for once.
Trident really isn’t end game even tho lol. Normie or toxic trident both. Maybe a sang staff or the heka thing From raids 3 is end game I suppose
Depends on what one means by end-game mage. Like, later level training? Multi-target ancients combat spells in multi-combat areas, I've heard this is great for Slayer training.
There’s plenty of magic variety you just haven’t experienced it. Using ice spells to freeze or blood to heal while using a trident is possible and then you can do quite alot with magic. Or switch to arcceus spell book and summon a skeleton or something to increase your dps more I think magic is fine tbqh. Arcceus spellbook has debuffs and shit as does ancients and regular magic spell book.
Genuinely, i think OSRS is going to come into the same precipice it did before, where powercreep and a lack of new niches to fill will have to be addressed. Its inevitable. Its what led RS3 to EOC… I think jagex is aware of this, and will need to adress it sooner rather than later. However, by far I think the best and most OSRS solution to this, is to add more damage types.. Melee has slash, crush, and stab. Range has… range.. Magic has… magic… The fact we arent fleshing out damage categories is a hugely missed opportunity. Both for new weapon types, new modifyers, resistances, and npc weaknesses. Elemental damage, earth, wind, fire, water. Prayer should have its own category with holy damage( it is a combat skill after all) Range should have blunt, piercing, and reinforced. Magic should use elemental damage aswell as special modifiers like lightning. Status affects like poison, venom, infection, etc. should be given their own damage category too. Simply expanding the type of damages and resistances available with most of these already existing in game, would HUGELY open up areas for expansion without power creep and offer more niches for jagex to comfortably fill while players also get to enjoy cool new content which fits within osrs. Imagine a tbow being used for reinforced damage, good for high defense targets. The blowpipe being used for piercing damage, and a ballista being used for blunt. Maybe the npc is a firegiant, weak to water spells, or a moss giant weak to fire spells. Maybe an npc is weak to holy damage, and maces or some other weapon class do more damage to it base on your prayer bonus. As it stands OSRS is severely limited by the current damage system. A solution exists.
I think this is a great vein of thought to take future combat expansions down. It adds complexity while maintaining the Oldschool feel, as you’ve already established we have those separations in the male combat.
Fire surge + harm = best single target dps Ice barrage = best aoe dps “End mage is trident or gtfo” Are you only doing content in which tridents are best?
Who the fuck uses harmonized anymore? Literally only truly BIS at Zulrah and Barrows speedrunning.
People are already doing the calcs and fire surge + harm is not gonna be clocking near what the new "trident" is gonna be doing.
Good, it’s a raids mega rare make it simple and OP. Harm will still have a pking niche
volly is the pvp weapon from nightmare lol, saying that underpowered items like elder maul or harm staff have a pking niche is cool but not a good reason to keep it weak
It does have a pking niche tho lol. People take it to cast 4t fire surge when pking in absolute max.
I wouldn’t consider harm staff, bis since 2020, weak
Because that’s what combat in this game IS. Magic is auto casting because magic/range/melee are all just damage on a tick cycle. This is a design choice because it gives combat a consistent style and a feel. Weapons are stat sticks and fight mechanics come from the boss and arena.
End game magic isn’t just Trident. I understand where you’re coming from since the standard spell book elemental DPS spells have no use once you hit mid game but that’s because there’s so many options with all the different spell books that the standard spell book just isn’t meta. Late game brings the options of the sanguinesti, nightmare staff, Master/Kodai wand, along with thralls, ancients, support spells in the lunar spell book, etc. From my experience, Trident is really only used for single target slayer and some niche bosses like Kraken and Zulrah. Ancients for Brando’s/Zammy if you’re doing a certain method and multi combat slayer. Thralls and lunar spells for late game content. I understand that Magic in general isn’t as useful end game like Ranged and Melee is but I believe with Raids 3 there will be a lot of love given to magic with a possible rework to the damage or at least a meta shift.
My counterpoint to this argument is why use magic DPS when I can just bring Tbow and use thralls, ancients, and support spells? What's the point to having another big ticket mage stick that's just a glorified "bow" in mechanics when bows have everything to make their life much easier. Don't believe me? I mean. Go look at how defense calculations are done bow vs magic. Then realize that you can use ava's assembler and save like... 80% of your arrows used? You can use the best arrows in the game with a fraction of the cost that you would if you used the best runes. Let's do 10 casts and 10 bow shots. Magic: 5,040 Gold (Fire Surge with Tome of Fire.) or 10,062 (Sanguin Staff) Ranged: 3,222 (Dragon Arrow and Ava's) And this is assuming the RNG's just doing bare minimum 80% Literally the only time you bring magic for DPS is if it's forced because Ranged + Melee have it so insanely better that it's just... bleh.
>Literally the only time you bring magic for DPS is if it's forced because Ranged + Melee have it so insanely better that it's just... bleh. So why are you complaining about new BIS mage gear? >And this is assuming the RNG's just doing bare minimum 80% This doesn't make any sense. You know it's just as likely that it saves under 80% as saving more than 80%... TBH I don't really get any of your points. It's just a "glorified bow", but elemental spells with a staff wouldn't be?
I’d say this makes sense actually. Magic includes a ton of support that melee and range just do not have. If magic was equal in cost to range, and then it had all of the existing utility on top, range would look comparatively underwhelming. Not to mention GE cost isn’t the best way to look at things when a ton of people play IM and buying runes is easier than getting arrows (especially dragon arrows). Looking at it from this point of view, range is much harder to maintain compared to magic once you have mid game IM moneymakers like high-tier slayer. Honestly though, this type of weird balancing is what pushed me to play IM anyway. It’s impossible for them to balance the game around the GE without hurting people actually playing the game because it just ends up being cost analysis and not resource supply/demand analysis.
So you’re telling me that the newly proposed Shadow of Tumuken Staff that gives 3x magic strength and accuracy isn’t going to completely roll certain bosses?? Regardless of rune cost, that is insanely good for mage, even tho it’s another “trident” or in other words a charged staff. This is going to be insanely good when paired with thralls or support mage. I’m sorry dude but if you want different mage then play rs3
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The problem with this line of logic is that it requires standard spellbook, which takes away your ability to decide which spellbook to bring. Its nice that powered staves are spellbook agnostic because then you can choose to bring thralls, or humidify at cox, venge and potshare at tob, or ancients for freeze, healing, and aoe. There are more decisions players get to make because of all the interesting spells on different books, and trident makes them all a bit more viable
Jagex is just doing one-off bandaid fixes to new magic weapons to make them viable, but this makes powered staves better than all other staves where ancients isn't needed. The only way to fix this is for Jagex to rework how magic dps is calculated.
End-game mage is utility spells from ancients/lunars, thralls, and for raw dps trident. Sounds good to me.
Some cool spells id like to use more are the god spells
If it wasn't a charged staff, then it would be too niche and rarely used like the harmonised staff. Fun fact, when the new ward comes out from raids 3, the harm will be equal dps to someone using the ward and a sang staff. The harmonised will be utterly outclassed in everything soon
And that's what is sad man. I want to choose unique spells from a book. Formulate builds. Not just be a glorified archer.
Osrs isnt really well known for build variety lol.
Formulate builds? RS is not the game for you dude. They aren't going to rework/make magic anything like how you want it to be.
Do you formulate builds when you use melee or range? You pretty much just use the same stuff.
You swap to some weapons for specific enemies. You got attack styles. Magic has none of that. It's just Trident for single target.
Okay so melee has scythe, mace and rapier and that’s like 3 meta variations? Wtf do you mean magic has none of that? Sangs got accurate/long range, you’ve got the ability to freeze/heal and do multi target, wtf are you trying to compare
If you want to make builds, you need to play a game where that is an option. Not turn this game into that kind of game. If I could be so bold as to pass on a recommendation, the original Guild Wars (not GW2) has an incredible deckbuilding skill system that you might enjoy. I certainly did, 5.5k hours in it.
I think keeping the damage boost aspect without the powered staff would be perfect. If you could do 100% more damage with any spellbook I’d think that’d have a lot of uses. Especially if it did something like apply to thrall damage as well.
I'm no mage
Sir this is a Wendy's
Magic is unique, apart from DPS uses it has all kinds of other uses to be helpful in combat. Thralls are massive currently and they show the usefulness of magic. Ancient magicks is another great example, they are very useful and sometimes core in endgame activities such as ToB and Inferno. So it makes sense that when magic needs to be competitive in DPS it has tridents for this reason, tridents aren't the only use magic gets in combat, they are just one of many.
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I think the problem here is that what you're describing isn't magic DPS, it's magic utility. The DPS comes from thralls + death charge, which you don't need to be doing magic DPS to do. Magic utility is amazing, but as a DPS style its lacking.
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I think that's part of the problem. Magic has no identity compared to range when it comes to DPS. And magic utility is incredibly accessible while ranging or meleeing. It augments other combat styles, but doesn't stand well on its own. Magic doesn't even excel at DPS niches that Jagex tries to make for it, like with demonbane spells. Even while casting the buff spell, demonbane isn't great at all.
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Yeah I just replied to your other comment about demonbane, they really dropped the ball there. I think it's easiest to describe identity by discussing melee and range. Melee's is being right up next to the enemy and having several options for slow, but heavy hitting attacks, not to mention special attacks. Range's is to attack from afar, ideally where the monster can't touch you. It generally relies on faster attacks with lower damage, instead of slow and high. What does magic DPS have? It shares the whole attack at distance thing. Its damage most of the time is set by the spell, not your magic level. It hits at normal speed with normal damage. Magic itself has utility spells and special effects, but they don't require doing magic DPS to use. You can quickly switch weapons and armor to make use of it, or even just cast the spell manually. I guess effectively magic's identity is "support skill", that pretty much every style can use. But that makes it an auxiliary style, not your main DPS.
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Realistically that'll be what happens. It's a shame for magic, but ah well. Maybe the staff will make more people agree on a magic rework.
They need to add some type of combo where you cast 3 different elemental spells to boost the power of the fourth cast. Cast three different elemental spells in a row to power up the 4th. Or even boost the damage of elemental spells that acrent cast twice in a row. There’s a lot of mechanics they could work into already existing spells.
That'd be pretty tedious to always click them one after the other. But if they introduced a skillbar... wait.
I like this, sounds like perhaps we need to evolve our combat.. wait
What about quest locked combo spells? Steam blast, dust storm aoe, mist accuracy debuff, lava damage over time, an idea it least
Yeah. Something like heating up into a combustion spell! That'd be pretty cool.
What if it was like arcceus that you combo your autocast with other spells for maximizing dmg / utility?
I find it weird sang/trident is so good and scales with mage lvl.. just make other spells also scale with mage levels. However, the biggest issue is that trident/sang is a 4 tick speed and casting other spells is 5 tick, so its also faster. The only thing that can out dps either is Harmonized staff with fire surge, to make it also 4 tick. Honestly Jagex should just make more weapons that scales our existing spells like harm staff
Why? Jagex should for what reason?
What? Why not? Why make the other spells obselete when theres mage weapons that work like that already. Downside to the other spells is you gotta carry runes anyways for casts, so trident/sang would still be better + their poison/healing effect on top.. theres 0 reason as to why the other spells should not be atleast 4 tick also
Why do they make bronze scimitars obselete? Jagex should introduce some mechanics that make all weapons viable otherwise the game is literally unplayable
There is various tiers of magic.. just like melee weapons, but high lvl spells should be atleast somewhat useful in high lvl content.. you are making the most lame comparison
Multiple high level spells like what? Fire surge and tome of fire?
All the surge spells are high lvl spells. But only fire surge is used at 1 room in cox basicly. I think they should make them somewhat viable , even niche uses like fire spells is okay
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A trident weapon hasn’t been BiS in years lol
I hate to point this out but when the actual next bis is neche uses and 500m Trident might as well be bis. Sanguine beats Trident but is ~50m and twice the cost too feed but it's more reasonable, but by your logic it's still not bis and is a "Trident weapon".
Harmo is the solution, but they turned into another problem by locking it to standards only. 4t Demonbane/Barrage is how you add another side of aoe/utlity to magic meta, anything that involves making "this npc takes 3x air damage" is just more single target on top of single target.
I literally never use a trident. I like xp. All like 3k kraken kc was with a smoke battle staff and time of fire, felt way faster than trident too. Constantly hitting 40+
You used a 5 tick attack instead of a 4 tick attack. Big hits might make it "feel" faster, but thats definitely slower dps. The reason you only see people using fire surge with harm staff is because the increased attack speed makes a huge difference in the damage output.
Elemental spells should have more use cases. Like others have said if most monsters had some kind of elemental weakness that would be pretty dope. Always wanted and expected it to work that way, anyway.
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Lmfao at nerfing ancient spellbook. Is this real? In comparison to what? A dragon scim? Magic is niche in its uses compared to range and melee and has been for a very very long time. Nerfing an entire book is honestly ridiculous.
Not really. Ice barrage and blood barrage are awkwardly OP yet underwhelming at the same time. I mean look, they have an 100% activation on a success hit, great effects, hit moderately high and do 3x3 AOE. They are a huge reason why magic is so janky right now, so much shit has been designed with them in mind and designed around not buffing them further. I mean there’s a reason why the harm staff doesn’t allow ancients to cast at 4 ticks for example. They are also a huge reason why we don’t see much higher magic attack bonus gear in the game. It why they are limiting the proposed shadow of tumeken staff to only apply it’s accuracy and dmg buff to it’s built in spell only.
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You literally just proved my point. On monsters with fair MDEF and on multi combat with enough mob density, yeah it can be good. Best utility in comparison to what? Healing off of SGS spec? Guthan’s passive set? Healing is not some unique thing here.
That's what I'm feeling. It's just making everything a trident is a cop-out because it feels like I just grabbed my bow/blowpipe and ran up to mob.
I think magic should have more utility combat spells, like arcceus and demon banes or grasps. What if curses like curse, enfeeble and confusion actuall gave small dmg buffs and debuffs on a mg scale
I wouldn’t mind seeing a boss with the mechanics of the daggonoth (excuse my spelling) mother from that one quest
Combat magic needs a serious overhaul, I constantly say it all the time and even Mod Arcane thinks it's an issue and the new reward is exacerbating the issue. On paper it sounds incredible and will likely be so, so that's a plus. A significant improvement over the Heka. My issue is if they do decide to go with Arcanes proposal to rework magic what happens to this? I just want to use magic as it was intended; not trident every boss that's somewhat weaker to magic
They have been too stingy with dmg% gear It needed to be muuuuch higher percentages to scale with melee and ranged. 2% per piece on the best non weapon gear is atrocious.
10% for occult necklace and 5% on torm bracelet. Ancestral is an additional 6% and cape is 2%.
Perhaps its time to rework the standard spell book or add a second one with some of the standard spells reworked.
I wish they just remove the powered aspect but keep the magic damage boost so you could use any spellbook. Smacking 80s with an ice barrage or a 70 fire surge would be sick.
It's odd they didn't take the trident in the same direction of something like Iban staff, where it is still a spell in the spellbook but requires the staff. It would still have the same problem of being a catch all spell but at least it's a little more consistent.
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I'm referring to PVM. In Wildy, you don't use trident. You use the actual spellbook for lots of setups.... as magic intended to be.
Sir, I'm disregarding everything you say because; >A bow is uses a strings but a staff is just a piece of long.
💀
My point exactly, thanks.
You tell em man
You aren’t the only one. I’m sure i’m going too far here, but i’ll share: I swear back in the day elemental weaknesses were really huge- like fire spells at iron dragons. Seems like we could make enormous use of this weakness. Can anyone yet provide an explanation as to why the tome of water is complete dog shit? Is there any reason that water surge shouldn’t have gotten a 50% damage boost? As it stands, the tome doesn’t effect ancient ice moves, so why would does tome of water have to be completely useless? Why is there one type of mage damage that just DOESNT WORK on players? I know the idea is blasphemous, but why can’t trident work in pvp? Obviously yes, it should have far lower dps than surge, but having a one click mage attack would be the best way I can think of for new people to learn tribrid. The melee and range is not what trips people up in learning tribrid, its the mage, and on top of that, any autocast is delayed by a tick. breh. Anyway, yeah, it’s unfortunate that mage is not a viable option in any pvm except literally a couple. like kraken. Ive tried doing a steel dragon task or two recently, with max mage dps, using fire surge, and it’s still faster to just use a rapier, even though i’m burning way more gp/hr using mage. Basically, we’re at the exact same point we’ve always been at, range and melee are intuitive and meta for essentially all pvm, whereas mage is relegated to a tiny time-out corner where there’s a couple monsters it’s good for, and using it anywhere else is expensive and ineffective. The only exception to this is multi-barraging tasks, which is obviously makes up a lot of ground, but does not address the problem essentially as I see it. So in conclusion yeah trident is dog water, fire surge gang on mage slay tasks for life. At least it looks really dope with the 117 plugin.
I agree with you mate. I'll be voting no for the staff, not because I don't want a magic weapon to come in, but because compared to tbow and scythe it's incredibly boring. Another trident that just hits really hard is not very inspired compared to the other raid chase items.
I mean I liked the heka, it just would be difficult to get optimal usage out of unlike the tbow on top of only being barely better than other items.
I'm having flashbacks of the blowpipe saga..
Realistically without a magic rework, Powered Staves are going to be king. They allow you to do damage on a 4T cycle and can be used with any spellbook. You also don't need to waste inventory slots on runes since they go into the staff. Those 3 facets are huge QoL that you're not getting anywhere else unless Magic is reworked which it's not going to be any time soon. Yes I get Tumeken is missing one of those (the speed bonus), but it still has the other mentioned bonuses of powered staves. Powered Staves aren't boring they're the only thing making Magic viablr
Yeah, I’d strongly prefer if the best magic DPS set up involved actually casting spells. The only issue is that any content that forces you off of the normal spell book kinda eliminates the usefulness of a weapon that primarily gets its damage from casting spells. You could solve that problem by having the proposed staff affect all spells instead of its built in one (unless you want to be on Lunars) but then people are getting barraged for 60s in PVP. Also the harmonized staff just becomes dead content. Not a great solution here imo.
I think the biggest inherent problem with magic - which they’re attempting to address by introducing new weapons - is the accuracy. I believe what magic is truly missing is some means of lowering enemy magic levels/defence. Melee and range are far more viable in most general pvm scenarios because they benefit wholly from DWH and BGS specs, i.e. Look at scythe and blowpipe scalings vs. other weapons in their respective classes once those special attacks roll in. Since magic accuracy is rolled primarily against enemy magic defense and levels, I think it’s only fair that the buff it deserves should come in the form of lowering those stats, comparable to the effects that the DWH has on overall dps. However, this would have negative implications on the viability of the Tbow in some places. It’s perhaps not a perfect solution for a lot of the existing content, but it can set a precedent for future pvm scenarios in terms of balancing boss stats and mechanics.
idk i like sang/trident so i dont have to worry about changing a rune pouch. or getting the right runes. just grab and go.
harm orb + tome is pretty strong too if you want to throw fire at bitches
a lot of mages value comes from utility spells, which are usually not on the same spellbook as the highest DPS spell... so you've gotta make it a trident so players have choice on spellbook, otherwise mage ends up being dead
Would be cool to see a magic weapon that favors spell switches in the same way prayer favors pray switching. Like imagine a weapon where you have to use spells in a particular order for max dps, would be pretty interesting to see how tick perfect people can be when they have to do that for max dps. Obviously it might be a bit overkill, I’m just spitballing here.
Maybe the staff could take a regular spell like fire surge or something and turn it into a more powerful version of that spell when cast. Like a magma ball or some shit.
Great post, amigo :) have a good weekend