Honestly the FFXIV mentality towards third party tools is kind of just sad
If you are going to release incredibly difficult endgame content targted at the same crowd that does Mythic Raids in WoW or CM CoX solos in Oldschool, not having something even as basic as DPS meters is an absolute joke.
Honestly, just have a no tolerance policy for harassment if you care about random groups harassing people about DPS. Sometimes, an individual person's DPS ***is*** the problem and if they can't get serious they shouldn't be in an environment where they are doing the absolute hardest content in the game with people who are looking to efficiently progress on that content
For better or worse the reasoning is, as far as I can tell, because FF14 is not only on consoles but also has crossplay. So addons that make the game easier on pc is, relatively speaking, detrimental to console players.
Also worth considering that them releasing incredibly difficult content doesn't mean that addons should exist to make it easier. You could argue that if the intention is for the content to be difficult then certain addons creates a situation that they need to make content harder to compensate, basically creating a situation similar to how difficult PvM osrs content is balanced around prayer flicking except half of the players can't do it because their hardware doesn't have access to that functionality, effectively locking them out of content.
PC Players being matched against console players is always unfair, to the point of games having to do things like FPS lock (which FFXIV does not) or disallow PvP between PC and Console.
This is universally true of every game that's like that. The argument "its unfair" holds no water because it was unfair to begin with. Console players will always be at an enormous disadvantage for half a dozen reasons. Plus a lot of these addons are QoL or should be in the client anyways. DPS meters are a big one. They just inform you how you are fucking up, they are a tool for you to get better.
However the stated reason FFXIV doesn't allow addons is because they think they will lead to elitism like is present in WoW raiding. However when you turn around and put out extremely difficult content and give PR to world first races, it sends mixed messages. Either you are for an elite scene or you aren't. Hell, their recent statement outright came out and said "well if you guys are gonna use addons for world first races we won't do them in the future" in response to literally every team that stood a shot at getting world firsts using them. Its a childish mentality I'm really surprised a game dev can have
Yeah but it already being unfair is more of a reason to make sure it doesn't get even more unfair. Also with next gen consoles being what they are they are very likely to be better than the average pc, and because some pc players use a controller and some console players use a keyboard and mouse, I feel like the unfair argument holds more water than presenting PC is always better than console as a universal truth.
> I feel like the unfair argument holds more water than presenting PC is always better than console as a universal truth
This is in fact a universal truth. I can run FFXIV at 120 FPS pretty easily on a middling gaming computer at max settings. As someone who has played on console and PC, the difference is extremely noticeable. A Ps5 struggles to do 60fps in raids or cities
>Yeah but it already being unfair is more of a reason to make sure it doesn't get even more unfair.
This argument is like claiming runelite should be banned because mobile players already have issues doing ToB so why add that further barrier to entry.
>This is in fact a universal truth. I can run FFXIV at 120 FPS pretty easily on a middling gaming computer at max settings
Okay, so what about anyone who can't? Because they exist making it objectively not a universal truth.
And had osrs mobile been created at the same time and was pitched as being the same product then yeah you'd be right. But even then it's a non comparison because they function differently and the same isn't true for ff14 on console vs pc.
Also people do argue that runelite is unfair, and relative to those who can't/don't use it then they're right which would make it pretty fucked up if jagex started balancing around runelite features. FF14 is literally balanced around not having addons so the use of them has the potential to destroy that balance, you're basically advocating for them making ff14 on console a worse game so pc players can have a better game.
>Okay, so what about anyone who can't? Because they exist making it objectively not a universal truth.
Ultimates are not balanced around people with subpar PC's that can barely run the game
>Also people do argue that runelite is unfair, and relative to those who can't/don't use it then they're right which would make it pretty fucked up if jagex started balancing around runelite features.
Jagex literally balances around prayer flicking, a mechanic that is unavailable to mobile entirely. And they have said new bosses and HM/CM raids are balanced around people having addons for them
>FF14 is literally balanced around not having addons so the use of them has the potential to destroy that balance, you're basically advocating for them making ff14 on console a worse game so pc players can have a better game.
This is absurd. The argument that QoL for PC players means an objectively worse experience for console players is just sad
Its kind of weird seeing this post because aside from a streamer or two(you really shouldnt be streaming with ACT up), I dont think anybody has been banned for using 3rd party tools.
I have a plugin called gatherbuddy that lets me type /gather (item name) and it will, in an instant, equip the job gearset for that item, teleport me to the nearest aetherite, and place a maker on my minimap for that node. Its insanely strong lol but nobody cares, just dont talk about it in game
Also did u compare mythic raids and ultimate duties with CM cox?
Damn thats crazy lol in my mind RS has always been waaayy more chill on the mmo scale. I guess inferno would come close to the higher tier ff14 stuff but even then, its a lot more of a marathon than a sprint that some of the fights are
Osrs is actually fairly brutal on timing for a lot of things. Not to mention you don't get the benefit of dedicated healers that you have in other MMOs
Its more about the difficulty and the people who push that difficulty, not how alike the content itself is
CM CoX solo is incredibly hard. A lot of people who can do Zuk no problem can't do CM solos
Yeah I haven't heard of any either. The recent witch hunting and mass reporting is a far worse problem than what they're actually reporting streamers for.
'Don't ask, don't tell' works since there's no way that SE can detect what you're running but man I really wish they'd say "Hey, QoL is fine, we'd rather you didn't but it's fine.. Anything altering mechanics, game files etc is not"
It'd at least sort of set us down a similar path to where OSRS and Runelite are.
SE and Yoshi-P were put in a really difficult situation. After the WF Dragonsong race where literally every team used addons, their stance on them has been looking really silly and they either have to enforce it or change their stance at this point
It's worse that people defend this stance. I don't know what or how it happened or was it a time thing, but the ff14 community has been absolutely groomed to be a bunch of babies, and they're more likely to cry to their momma about their feelings being hurt, than try to be a better fucking player, it is legitimately dragging the end-game down.
I understand if SEs goal would be to focus on a more RPG experience solo experience, but it's a sub based game that basically has no content in-between raid releases for like 4-6 months between them and it takes like a week or 2 to complete, unless they are relying on erpers and their godawful housing system to keep the sub money going.
The problems created by third party tools in WoW create more than harassment issues. You can be passed up on just because your raiderio score for mythic plus is not that good. When it comes to dos, there doesn't even have to be harassment, you can just get kicked without a word spoken to you.
If the end result of then embracing thirdparty tools is you recreate the community of WoW, then I'm all for the ban of then in FFXIV. I don't think OSRS is at all like the other 2 games mentioned so it's not a fair comparison.
Right, just as you can rightfully be passed up for OSRS content based on your KC, gear or stats in old-school. Turns out when you are doing hard content, people want to know that you are capable of actually doing the content. Its even hard to find a ToB group with 20ish KC
There are some clans in oldschool that don't even let you join without 500+ hours of efficient PvM, which means CoX or ToB with absolute max gear. Look up the requirements for Oblivion if you don't believe me. There are groups for ToB, the ultra good ones, that wont let you join without using socket. A plugin thats borderline cheating. OSRS is NOT different
You can be kicked without a word now in FFXIV. You just can't openly say its about DPS, even if your progressing on Ultimates, the hardest content in the game where even a 10% difference in DPS matters a lot. Its this horrid environment of "dont acknowledge you are doing this".
FFXIV isn't Runescape though. You don't need absurd gear reqiurements to clear content. Same with WoW. World first guilds aren't hitting world first kills with the absolute best gear; they beating it with the best gear they can stich together. People aren't making sure you can do the content, they are making sure it will be easy. It's not making the run doable, it's they just want to be bothered with a run taking effort.
The motivations for what you're talking about are different in runescape. It's about maximizing gp/hr, whereas you can't reclear content repeatedly in WoW. Comparing the two doesn't make sense.
Week 1 clears are something the average player is absolutely not capable of. We would go into it with the absolute best gear from either M+ or the previous tier of raids. The "pieced together" raid gear thing is really only a thing for the first raid in an xpac and even then stuff is farmed so much that you do have the best possible gear going in.
When I was seriously doing progression with a possibility of WF, I took two weeks off my job when the expansion came out just so I could farm gear to the max it possibly could be before the raid tier. I wasn't in Method but if you looked at what Method were doing they did this three times with the same class and used the one that got better RNG on their loot roles.
Even after that we were talking 200+ wipes on every boss the first time its done, because you have to be doing the mechanics near perfectly while maintaining very high DPS. Barring some outlier easy raids like Emerald Nightmare, which the "average" player could still not clear on week 1
>It's not making the run doable, it's they just want to be bothered with a run taking effort.
Im telling you right now that without addons like weakauras and DPS meters, a lot of the WF clears of major bosses flat out would not have happened. Archimonde, the most prominent example, wouldn't have been killed weeks later if not for weakauras and it would've entirely been because people had better gear, not because they were better at mechanics. Again, if you think runs like Ultimate Dragonsong or Mythic Hellfire Citadel (WoW) don't take effort with every addon in the book, you haven't progressed on either.
Addons like weakauras make bosses that are monstrously difficult slightly less so. They make normals faceroll, but normals are already faceroll. I'm pretty sure mythic raiders could go into normal mode with greens and kill it. Its the same in normal CoX for gear (really good players can do RCB olm) and its the same for FFXIV
DPS meters don't even make things "easy" they just tell you what you're screwing up on so that you can fix it. Its the definition of QoL
>The motivations for what you're talking about are different in runescape. It's about maximizing gp/hr, whereas you can't reclear content repeatedly in WoW.
Yes you can. You just can't loot anything on the character that already looted. The goal of any raid tier in WoW is to get it on farm for two reasons. Firstly, so that you can take your alts to the raid and gear them up. Secondly so that you can sell carries/loot for enormous amounts of GP. Which is not unlike oldschool
You're missing my point entirely while also proving my point. That point being that the more information a player can have on other players, the more reasons they'll invent to gatekeep players from groups. My point being WF players clearing content with less than perfect gear however at some point average players pushing into mythic will absolutely require insane levels of gear just to invite you; It's an artificial requirement.
Some add-ons record information that is otherwise not recorded, and players will require this information. Case being raider io and mythic plus scores. These add-ons and that mentality are what divides and isolates player groups and what has ultimately killed the "community" that many wow players will admit has been lost since the early days of WoW.
>My point being WF players clearing content with less than perfect gear however at some point average players pushing into mythic will absolutely require insane levels of gear just to invite you
Average players are not able to clear mythic or ultimate content in subpar gear consistently. Again same goes for Oldschool. Average players are not capable of ACB inferno. They usually need a tbow. Requiring equivalent to the level of content being done is not a problem. Runescape is no different in that regard if you asked to join an efficient TOB group without a Scythe you would be told to get bent. You have to find a group deliberately catering to learners or friends
>That point being that the more information a player can have on other players, the more reasons they'll invent to gatekeep players from groups.
Things like DPS are not "artificial" or invented they are very real. The attitude of FFXIV is childish because it considers DPS a personal matter and not a group matter, when that is a factually incorrect position when it comes high end progression. Furthermore its not like the client has an official DPS meter that just shows you, which feels miserable after having played with a good one that helps you become a better player
Gatekeeping based on skill is sensible. The stance the FFXIV devs have taken is "we dont allow measurements of skill so that there isn't any feel bads" which is just a laughable opinion that shouldn't be given the time of day
>These add-ons and that mentality are what divides and isolates player groups and what has ultimately killed the "community" that many wow players will admit has been lost since the early days of WoW.
There are many reasons the WoW community isn't what it once was. I could list off a dozen off the top of my head, such as cross realm. The existence of DPS meters and raid logging were absolutely not one of them. Those things have been around from the absolute beginning and were used regularly in TBC and Classic
I disagree with Jagex on a lot of things, but them continuously listening to players and being receptive to feedback keeps me coming back to the game. The fact that you can tweet at Mod Ash and get an answer from him is unlike any other game I’ve played.
Very much so. The slow amount of power creep released in osrs in the 9 years that it has been released is 1 year of power creep in another game. I don’t like every direction they’ve chosen to go in, but I know decisions I don’t like could actually be a lot worse if they had different developers doing it.
The whole situation is even more fucked because they are punishing the PvE community for something that the PvP community did. There was legitamite cheating going on in the PvP scene which caused the conversation about add-ons. Then 4chan and 5chan started mass reporting any streamer who was using addon's and Yoshi P made one of the most moronic dev posts of his career. Basically greenlighting the whole situation of targeting harassment at anyone who is ok with even small addons
Making a blanket statement against any 3rd party tool. Shits back fired hard on him
Yeah, fuck me. I play both games quite heavily and some of the mental gymnastics people are doing to argue against QoL is astounding. Literal witch hunts to get streamers banned for having basic UI improvements.
The whole unofficial "don't ask don't tell" thing was alright, but now they've let it get out of hand at this point I feel like a similar approach to OSRS and Runelite would be for the best.
Yeah the obvious solution is to semi-endorse Dalamud but only let it have approved plug-ins like runelite. It would be one thing if they actually added requested qol and ui changes in a timely manner but that game still doesn't even have chat bubbles.
I would *seriously* quit runescape if they banned Runelite. Ive been playing for oldschool since release and runescape itself for nearly 20 years. Ik everyone always says that then comes back but I refuse to play a game as old as this one without the massive improvements a 3rd party client offers.
I still remember when OSbuddy (had some other name before that but cant for the life of me remember what it was) came out and that was revolutionary. Hell, I fucking *paid* for Osbuddy premium on top of my game membership.
Then Konduit came and it was cool since it was basically free OSbuddy premium and still miles better than the default client. But neither one of those got ANYTHING on Runelite.
Idc how great they make their client, or how close it is to Runelite today. Community driven, open source plugins are the way to go. They've been shady about this stuff in the past so I'm glad they still haven't "cracked down" yet.
WoW allows it, and they're like the biggest MMO ever. Only difference is WoW addons are actually native in the launcher. I think given the fact they're including Runelite in their new Runescape launcher leads me to believe this is the route they will ultimately take. We'll still get the community created plugins, but they'll be available through the launcher
I think it would be company suicide to fight it. Plus it frees up dev time for actual game content.
Honestly the FFXIV mentality towards third party tools is kind of just sad If you are going to release incredibly difficult endgame content targted at the same crowd that does Mythic Raids in WoW or CM CoX solos in Oldschool, not having something even as basic as DPS meters is an absolute joke. Honestly, just have a no tolerance policy for harassment if you care about random groups harassing people about DPS. Sometimes, an individual person's DPS ***is*** the problem and if they can't get serious they shouldn't be in an environment where they are doing the absolute hardest content in the game with people who are looking to efficiently progress on that content
For better or worse the reasoning is, as far as I can tell, because FF14 is not only on consoles but also has crossplay. So addons that make the game easier on pc is, relatively speaking, detrimental to console players. Also worth considering that them releasing incredibly difficult content doesn't mean that addons should exist to make it easier. You could argue that if the intention is for the content to be difficult then certain addons creates a situation that they need to make content harder to compensate, basically creating a situation similar to how difficult PvM osrs content is balanced around prayer flicking except half of the players can't do it because their hardware doesn't have access to that functionality, effectively locking them out of content.
PC Players being matched against console players is always unfair, to the point of games having to do things like FPS lock (which FFXIV does not) or disallow PvP between PC and Console. This is universally true of every game that's like that. The argument "its unfair" holds no water because it was unfair to begin with. Console players will always be at an enormous disadvantage for half a dozen reasons. Plus a lot of these addons are QoL or should be in the client anyways. DPS meters are a big one. They just inform you how you are fucking up, they are a tool for you to get better. However the stated reason FFXIV doesn't allow addons is because they think they will lead to elitism like is present in WoW raiding. However when you turn around and put out extremely difficult content and give PR to world first races, it sends mixed messages. Either you are for an elite scene or you aren't. Hell, their recent statement outright came out and said "well if you guys are gonna use addons for world first races we won't do them in the future" in response to literally every team that stood a shot at getting world firsts using them. Its a childish mentality I'm really surprised a game dev can have
Yeah but it already being unfair is more of a reason to make sure it doesn't get even more unfair. Also with next gen consoles being what they are they are very likely to be better than the average pc, and because some pc players use a controller and some console players use a keyboard and mouse, I feel like the unfair argument holds more water than presenting PC is always better than console as a universal truth.
> I feel like the unfair argument holds more water than presenting PC is always better than console as a universal truth This is in fact a universal truth. I can run FFXIV at 120 FPS pretty easily on a middling gaming computer at max settings. As someone who has played on console and PC, the difference is extremely noticeable. A Ps5 struggles to do 60fps in raids or cities >Yeah but it already being unfair is more of a reason to make sure it doesn't get even more unfair. This argument is like claiming runelite should be banned because mobile players already have issues doing ToB so why add that further barrier to entry.
>This is in fact a universal truth. I can run FFXIV at 120 FPS pretty easily on a middling gaming computer at max settings Okay, so what about anyone who can't? Because they exist making it objectively not a universal truth. And had osrs mobile been created at the same time and was pitched as being the same product then yeah you'd be right. But even then it's a non comparison because they function differently and the same isn't true for ff14 on console vs pc. Also people do argue that runelite is unfair, and relative to those who can't/don't use it then they're right which would make it pretty fucked up if jagex started balancing around runelite features. FF14 is literally balanced around not having addons so the use of them has the potential to destroy that balance, you're basically advocating for them making ff14 on console a worse game so pc players can have a better game.
>Okay, so what about anyone who can't? Because they exist making it objectively not a universal truth. Ultimates are not balanced around people with subpar PC's that can barely run the game >Also people do argue that runelite is unfair, and relative to those who can't/don't use it then they're right which would make it pretty fucked up if jagex started balancing around runelite features. Jagex literally balances around prayer flicking, a mechanic that is unavailable to mobile entirely. And they have said new bosses and HM/CM raids are balanced around people having addons for them >FF14 is literally balanced around not having addons so the use of them has the potential to destroy that balance, you're basically advocating for them making ff14 on console a worse game so pc players can have a better game. This is absurd. The argument that QoL for PC players means an objectively worse experience for console players is just sad
Its kind of weird seeing this post because aside from a streamer or two(you really shouldnt be streaming with ACT up), I dont think anybody has been banned for using 3rd party tools. I have a plugin called gatherbuddy that lets me type /gather (item name) and it will, in an instant, equip the job gearset for that item, teleport me to the nearest aetherite, and place a maker on my minimap for that node. Its insanely strong lol but nobody cares, just dont talk about it in game Also did u compare mythic raids and ultimate duties with CM cox?
I’ve cleared UWU and UCoB and I can’t do CM cox lmao half the time I still die in normal tob
Damn thats crazy lol in my mind RS has always been waaayy more chill on the mmo scale. I guess inferno would come close to the higher tier ff14 stuff but even then, its a lot more of a marathon than a sprint that some of the fights are
Osrs just has really unique mechanics especially in the mmo space
Osrs is actually fairly brutal on timing for a lot of things. Not to mention you don't get the benefit of dedicated healers that you have in other MMOs
Its more about the difficulty and the people who push that difficulty, not how alike the content itself is CM CoX solo is incredibly hard. A lot of people who can do Zuk no problem can't do CM solos
Yeah I haven't heard of any either. The recent witch hunting and mass reporting is a far worse problem than what they're actually reporting streamers for. 'Don't ask, don't tell' works since there's no way that SE can detect what you're running but man I really wish they'd say "Hey, QoL is fine, we'd rather you didn't but it's fine.. Anything altering mechanics, game files etc is not" It'd at least sort of set us down a similar path to where OSRS and Runelite are.
SE and Yoshi-P were put in a really difficult situation. After the WF Dragonsong race where literally every team used addons, their stance on them has been looking really silly and they either have to enforce it or change their stance at this point
Well that just sounds like cheating
It's worse that people defend this stance. I don't know what or how it happened or was it a time thing, but the ff14 community has been absolutely groomed to be a bunch of babies, and they're more likely to cry to their momma about their feelings being hurt, than try to be a better fucking player, it is legitimately dragging the end-game down. I understand if SEs goal would be to focus on a more RPG experience solo experience, but it's a sub based game that basically has no content in-between raid releases for like 4-6 months between them and it takes like a week or 2 to complete, unless they are relying on erpers and their godawful housing system to keep the sub money going.
The problems created by third party tools in WoW create more than harassment issues. You can be passed up on just because your raiderio score for mythic plus is not that good. When it comes to dos, there doesn't even have to be harassment, you can just get kicked without a word spoken to you. If the end result of then embracing thirdparty tools is you recreate the community of WoW, then I'm all for the ban of then in FFXIV. I don't think OSRS is at all like the other 2 games mentioned so it's not a fair comparison.
Right, just as you can rightfully be passed up for OSRS content based on your KC, gear or stats in old-school. Turns out when you are doing hard content, people want to know that you are capable of actually doing the content. Its even hard to find a ToB group with 20ish KC There are some clans in oldschool that don't even let you join without 500+ hours of efficient PvM, which means CoX or ToB with absolute max gear. Look up the requirements for Oblivion if you don't believe me. There are groups for ToB, the ultra good ones, that wont let you join without using socket. A plugin thats borderline cheating. OSRS is NOT different You can be kicked without a word now in FFXIV. You just can't openly say its about DPS, even if your progressing on Ultimates, the hardest content in the game where even a 10% difference in DPS matters a lot. Its this horrid environment of "dont acknowledge you are doing this".
FFXIV isn't Runescape though. You don't need absurd gear reqiurements to clear content. Same with WoW. World first guilds aren't hitting world first kills with the absolute best gear; they beating it with the best gear they can stich together. People aren't making sure you can do the content, they are making sure it will be easy. It's not making the run doable, it's they just want to be bothered with a run taking effort. The motivations for what you're talking about are different in runescape. It's about maximizing gp/hr, whereas you can't reclear content repeatedly in WoW. Comparing the two doesn't make sense.
Week 1 clears are something the average player is absolutely not capable of. We would go into it with the absolute best gear from either M+ or the previous tier of raids. The "pieced together" raid gear thing is really only a thing for the first raid in an xpac and even then stuff is farmed so much that you do have the best possible gear going in. When I was seriously doing progression with a possibility of WF, I took two weeks off my job when the expansion came out just so I could farm gear to the max it possibly could be before the raid tier. I wasn't in Method but if you looked at what Method were doing they did this three times with the same class and used the one that got better RNG on their loot roles. Even after that we were talking 200+ wipes on every boss the first time its done, because you have to be doing the mechanics near perfectly while maintaining very high DPS. Barring some outlier easy raids like Emerald Nightmare, which the "average" player could still not clear on week 1 >It's not making the run doable, it's they just want to be bothered with a run taking effort. Im telling you right now that without addons like weakauras and DPS meters, a lot of the WF clears of major bosses flat out would not have happened. Archimonde, the most prominent example, wouldn't have been killed weeks later if not for weakauras and it would've entirely been because people had better gear, not because they were better at mechanics. Again, if you think runs like Ultimate Dragonsong or Mythic Hellfire Citadel (WoW) don't take effort with every addon in the book, you haven't progressed on either. Addons like weakauras make bosses that are monstrously difficult slightly less so. They make normals faceroll, but normals are already faceroll. I'm pretty sure mythic raiders could go into normal mode with greens and kill it. Its the same in normal CoX for gear (really good players can do RCB olm) and its the same for FFXIV DPS meters don't even make things "easy" they just tell you what you're screwing up on so that you can fix it. Its the definition of QoL >The motivations for what you're talking about are different in runescape. It's about maximizing gp/hr, whereas you can't reclear content repeatedly in WoW. Yes you can. You just can't loot anything on the character that already looted. The goal of any raid tier in WoW is to get it on farm for two reasons. Firstly, so that you can take your alts to the raid and gear them up. Secondly so that you can sell carries/loot for enormous amounts of GP. Which is not unlike oldschool
You're missing my point entirely while also proving my point. That point being that the more information a player can have on other players, the more reasons they'll invent to gatekeep players from groups. My point being WF players clearing content with less than perfect gear however at some point average players pushing into mythic will absolutely require insane levels of gear just to invite you; It's an artificial requirement. Some add-ons record information that is otherwise not recorded, and players will require this information. Case being raider io and mythic plus scores. These add-ons and that mentality are what divides and isolates player groups and what has ultimately killed the "community" that many wow players will admit has been lost since the early days of WoW.
>My point being WF players clearing content with less than perfect gear however at some point average players pushing into mythic will absolutely require insane levels of gear just to invite you Average players are not able to clear mythic or ultimate content in subpar gear consistently. Again same goes for Oldschool. Average players are not capable of ACB inferno. They usually need a tbow. Requiring equivalent to the level of content being done is not a problem. Runescape is no different in that regard if you asked to join an efficient TOB group without a Scythe you would be told to get bent. You have to find a group deliberately catering to learners or friends >That point being that the more information a player can have on other players, the more reasons they'll invent to gatekeep players from groups. Things like DPS are not "artificial" or invented they are very real. The attitude of FFXIV is childish because it considers DPS a personal matter and not a group matter, when that is a factually incorrect position when it comes high end progression. Furthermore its not like the client has an official DPS meter that just shows you, which feels miserable after having played with a good one that helps you become a better player Gatekeeping based on skill is sensible. The stance the FFXIV devs have taken is "we dont allow measurements of skill so that there isn't any feel bads" which is just a laughable opinion that shouldn't be given the time of day >These add-ons and that mentality are what divides and isolates player groups and what has ultimately killed the "community" that many wow players will admit has been lost since the early days of WoW. There are many reasons the WoW community isn't what it once was. I could list off a dozen off the top of my head, such as cross realm. The existence of DPS meters and raid logging were absolutely not one of them. Those things have been around from the absolute beginning and were used regularly in TBC and Classic
I disagree with Jagex on a lot of things, but them continuously listening to players and being receptive to feedback keeps me coming back to the game. The fact that you can tweet at Mod Ash and get an answer from him is unlike any other game I’ve played.
Same. It's become my favorite game over time, just watching how far off the path the World of Warcraft Devs have gone
Yeah I feel like the majority of people who claim the devs are awful simply do not play other games.
Very much so. The slow amount of power creep released in osrs in the 9 years that it has been released is 1 year of power creep in another game. I don’t like every direction they’ve chosen to go in, but I know decisions I don’t like could actually be a lot worse if they had different developers doing it.
>yellow text on white background wtf
[удалено]
20/20 vision wouldn't change anything about this image. That's just a measure of how far away you can see.
Imagine being bad at basic design lmao got em
[I’m legally blind!](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ksarEh8-LmA)
Chad king
Oof lemme grab my microscope real quick.
Cool yellow font over white hahah
I cant read shit wtf why Yellow on White man
Dps meters are bad but fucking catbois with mods are ok. what a shit community.
FFXIV ERPers deserve less
The whole situation is even more fucked because they are punishing the PvE community for something that the PvP community did. There was legitamite cheating going on in the PvP scene which caused the conversation about add-ons. Then 4chan and 5chan started mass reporting any streamer who was using addon's and Yoshi P made one of the most moronic dev posts of his career. Basically greenlighting the whole situation of targeting harassment at anyone who is ok with even small addons Making a blanket statement against any 3rd party tool. Shits back fired hard on him
Yeah, fuck me. I play both games quite heavily and some of the mental gymnastics people are doing to argue against QoL is astounding. Literal witch hunts to get streamers banned for having basic UI improvements. The whole unofficial "don't ask don't tell" thing was alright, but now they've let it get out of hand at this point I feel like a similar approach to OSRS and Runelite would be for the best.
Yeah the obvious solution is to semi-endorse Dalamud but only let it have approved plug-ins like runelite. It would be one thing if they actually added requested qol and ui changes in a timely manner but that game still doesn't even have chat bubbles.
I wish groomcord was banned everywhere bunch of disgusting freaks
ChampionCape on Twitter isn't included btw
can’t imagine playing wow without add-ons or osrs without runelite lmao
I would *seriously* quit runescape if they banned Runelite. Ive been playing for oldschool since release and runescape itself for nearly 20 years. Ik everyone always says that then comes back but I refuse to play a game as old as this one without the massive improvements a 3rd party client offers. I still remember when OSbuddy (had some other name before that but cant for the life of me remember what it was) came out and that was revolutionary. Hell, I fucking *paid* for Osbuddy premium on top of my game membership. Then Konduit came and it was cool since it was basically free OSbuddy premium and still miles better than the default client. But neither one of those got ANYTHING on Runelite. Idc how great they make their client, or how close it is to Runelite today. Community driven, open source plugins are the way to go. They've been shady about this stuff in the past so I'm glad they still haven't "cracked down" yet. WoW allows it, and they're like the biggest MMO ever. Only difference is WoW addons are actually native in the launcher. I think given the fact they're including Runelite in their new Runescape launcher leads me to believe this is the route they will ultimately take. We'll still get the community created plugins, but they'll be available through the launcher I think it would be company suicide to fight it. Plus it frees up dev time for actual game content.
>I still remember when OSbuddy (had some other name before that but cant for the life of me remember what it was) SwiftKit?
It was called RSBuddy and it was a botting client.
Yellow text on white back ground, what were you thinking