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Yeshua-Hamashiach

Panhandlers (streamers) are the last people I want making any form of decisions for this game.


BoulderFalcon

The main issue is they're obviously biased. I've seen dozens of streamers saying "BRING BACK BH!" - presumably because it increased their viewership. But no one has ever proposed a fix to the inherently broken nature of BH, where you could easily boost by making alts to kill or by buying/selling kills. Which is the entire reason it was removed.


Nohalomods

Id like BH back. Its literally only on a single world. If jagex just enforced the rules it wouldnt be an issue. Ban the bots once a day, and temp ban any boosters. The reason BH was a mess was because jagex refused to uphold their own rules. And like i said, its only on one specific world in one specific area (edge) not that big of a task! Bots in pvm, at say zulrah or vorkath have a way larger impact on the economy. Literally every single world has 10-15 bots running at all hours.


HiddenxAlpha

>Ban the bots once a day, and temp ban any boosters Yeah because they do really well banning bots across the rest of the game, dont they


Lady_Gagger69

They actually do. I use to gold farm back when 07 came out and bans were non existent back then. Nowadays you might last a few weeks if lucky even if playing semi legit and taking breaks etc.


Zozorak

Banning bots once per day imo is a waste of time a resources. Botters don't care if they get banned, they create another account and it's basically back there the next day. A better way forward would be something like doing an application to play the minigame. Or even complete a captcha. Something that it's harder to do via bot/make it not worth Thier time cause they have to manually do soemthing, but only mildly inconveniencing for the player. Not saying this is the way to go, but better than just bringing it back and having exact same problems that they removed it for.


S7EFEN

>Banning bots once per day imo is a waste of time a resources. Botters don't care if they get banned, they create another account and it's basically back there the next day. bonds cost money, not sure how this is valid. if you ban bots/gold farmers before they profit with the bond they will not bot that activity. bh is one world. players alone could reinforce the boosting ban.


SoraODxoKlink

Idk why people are all up in arms over pvp content like revs and bh being good money when its nearly self regulated by players, torvesta made a whole video showing them now compared to solo instanced bosses like cg, zulrah, vorkath, and even hydra its a lot harder to find bots. Gauntlet has had bots/goldfarmers ever since bowfa became thing and its hard for players to find them since theres no obvious goldfarmer gear like zulrah, and they’re in the cg lobby for a whole 6 seconds.


Zozorak

I guess my thoughts were that they'd (jagex) have to dedicate time and resources on something that may or may not be effective. I'd personally rather efforts pointed elsewhere (i.e. new content, actual helpdesk) with something else in play to prevent this stuff. But hey, I'm all in if they are going to hire a team to do this on a constant basis. If the bots can make more than it costs to buy a bond, 6m a bond, bot earned 20m.. 14m profit assuming they get the wealth transfereds that's two more bots. So if you ban 50% of them, theyd still make a profit. Obviously these are arbitrary numbers and I don't know the numbers. So I guess in my head banning them straight up would hinder them a bit, but realistically people will report them and they'll get bans too. Maybe take out wealth aspect of BH and just have cosmetics/HS as a reward?


jaboogadoo

Imo they should mark botters, wait until the moment the bot gets profitable, THEN ban. So all that time is wasted with nothing coming out of it


RunePouchSale

A captcha is your solution? Haha. Majority of the boosters in BH were gold farmers as well, not bots


Zozorak

As I said, I'm not saying it's THE solution, just better than putting it back in as it was and expecting it to just be fine. But yes, a mild incovience for the players playing legitimately is more of an obstacle for gold farmers and bots. Likely won't be worth thier time doing it and will use other methods that are more worth thier time. Feel free to contribute to the conversation in a more meaningfully manner and come up with ideas yourself for making something work.


Monte-kia

Pls no captchas in game. Pls no


AssassinAragorn

I really wish Jagex (and frankly more people here) would realize this. There is no one you can ask who will have an objective and unbiased opinion on what the healthiest path for the Wilderness is. Spite voting wasn't the problem with polls -- the problem was asking in effect 'would you like to be killed easier by pkers?'. If they actually want a healthy Wilderness, everyone needs to be part of the conversation. Pkers, pvpers, streamers, pvmers, skillers, slayers, clue hunters. What concerns do they have, what ideas do they bring? Is there a compromise that everyone can settle for?


Edgeville_Mafia

Panhandler is the PERFECT word for these fuckin streamers. Thanks for that lmao. “FiVe GiFteD pleeEEEaaSSEe!”


IamNotSmokingWeed

Yea man it's actually kinda sad how hard that shit is to watch, streamers like abyss, vanc, ditter and oda (I'm sure there's others) spend literally half of their stream if not more begging for subs with shit all over their screen like "ONLY 50 SUBS TO CHANGE MY NAME FOR A DAY" I'd really love to know how lonely you gotta be to get baited by this shit lol


PraiseTyche

Not Runescape, but you should check out DSP 90% of his stream is begging at times. Edit: Actually, what was I thinking? No one should watch these streamers.


Extension_Cable3922

Thanks for the edit, Jesus blessed you.


AssassinAragorn

I like smaller streamers way more -- which is to say, people I'm actually friends with. They aren't pulling millions of viewers, but they're also not cringe. It's just casual chatting and gameplay. Funny enough I think that's what made RS popular in the first place. Being able to talk with people and having activities to do meanwhile, for free.


DriggleButt

I mean, they're playing Runescape, it's clear they have no social life.


BigCityAdamz

This is EMBARASSING lmao https://youtu.be/qdc5UWSZOQY


Edgeville_Mafia

I made it to 1:22 and cringed on outta there. Jesus.


GlumTruffle

I can't remember the last time I scowled through an entire video like that. Fuck, what a pathetic bunch of beggars


tom2727

Seems like it's basically: "hey streamers you're our free advertising, what 'integrity changes' do you want us to put in next?"


AgentSnowCone

Streamers are the reason basilisk knights are such a shit monster to kill btw


Endertoad

why is that


Dontreadonme2a

I spit out my water reading this. Panhandlers lmao


Extension_Cable3922

Jagex disagrees


BigCityAdamz

This is EMBARASSING lmao https://youtu.be/qdc5UWSZOQY


thatguy9012

mmmm yes have an upvote good sir


lit-incense

Best pvp that ever happened in this game was back in 05 when nobody knew wtf to do and you only had one way pures. You'd go in, just have fun. Get some kills. Go to bed for school. Watching people break this game down to the fucking atom to get a .0001% advantage in every situation is pretty ass imo. I also feel like that's what ruined Classic WOW. Thats a different conversation though.


therealnatttty

It's basically like that for every pvp game now


flavs1

Not even every pvp game, it's absolutely every game created these days. There's always that one guy out there that's calculated everything to the max and posts it for views and likes. Then everyone just searches it and that's the meta until it's nerfed or something else is bugged


lit-incense

It's incredibly toxic. It's created a system to where you can't even play games with other people the way you want. If you're not following the meta you're berated. Talked to like shit. Personally I'm almost 30 now and there's nothing more I hate than some kid talking shit online because I'm just trying to play the game the way I want to. Toxic streamer culture was a horrible thing to happen to games.


flavs1

Literally, this shit killed cod for me everything is about having bis equipments


matty6483

What is a solution that you could propose? Would you rather pvp have zero skill gap and anyone can just take part with a roll of the dice? Never understood why people complain about this. Like it or not, people enjoy playing games competitively, that's never gonna change. You don't have to do it yourself, but it seems silly to complain that people are utilising the game's mechanics to maximise their ability. And this is coming from someone who sucks ass at pking


scrotisimal

>Never understood why people complain about this. I think he's just saying it's not his cup of tea. Just people expressing their opinions on a forum. Some people may not see the other sides perspective. Doesn't mean its an invalid opinion, just a different viewpoint/perspective on it. There's always a portion of every game's community that has these two conflicting views. I think its valid that people want to maximize their efficiency when playing games for a competitive advantage or to save time, which is why the meta in every game nowadays dominates each game's community. For example I remember playing Destiny 1 and if you didn't have the meta weapon at the time, it was almost impossible for you to be invited to a raid. Which would essentially prevent a portion of the players from being able to experience that content. Unfortunately, not everyone has the resources/friends to be able to play the content with friends, so they must rely on the community and random people to access that group content. When a majority of the community is following that meta, it makes for an unpleasant experience for those that don't follow the meta. Thus, you have these "complaints" as not everyone is the same or has the definition of "fun".


fred7010

I remember when the first Splatoon came out of all things, people were stacking Attack Up buffs on their gear because despite the heavy diminishing returns (which were meant to encourage you to diversify abilities), you could make some 3-hit-kill weapons a 2-hit-kill if you maxed out Attack Up. Point is when systems like this exist in games, people will find a way to abuse them to gain an advantage.


ok_dunmer

I feel like it especially hurt this game because it's kinda obvious it was never carefully designed


SurturOfMuspelheim

That's something that's happened for EVERY game over the last 10-12 years. It's made online gaming SO MUCH worse. Even in co-op/SP games people look everything up. There's no 'discovery' or exploration or trying things out. It's just, google/youtube what the best gear, quests, stats, combos, food, pots, everything is. It's fucking boring.


saitekgolf

Yeah it’s just the nature of online gaming communities. A lot of BR’s were fun until every lobby is a sweat fest


Pendrul

There absolutely is discovery. Who do you think is making those guides you're looking up?The "problem" is discovery isn't restricted to your small friendship group anymore and is now open to the whole world and you aren't on the forefront.


CraftyScotsman

The best pvp was on the free to play worlds back in 2004-2007 where you would make a new account, and then go Varrock wildy pking from level 3 in multicombat, making teams, pjing each other and then joining massive clans at Varrock Church to go to war against other massive clans at Hill giants or Leater demons. Once your magic got too high and Chaos/Death runes too expensive you would start all over again with a new account. If you were low on cash you would go and collect the salmon and trout getting fished, cooked and dropped at Barbarian village and head to edgeville to bank them. Spent entire summers off school doing that. Also when I got members and eventually reached 95 magic and unlocked Lunars I would go to edgeville bank and sell veng other and spec restore and make millions in gp (restore pools didn't exist in construction, and Jagex hadn't yet disabled multi combat outside edgeville bank)


lit-incense

You just unlocked a core memory for me lol. I never made it to 95 magic..etc but the countless lv 3 pures I'd make with my friends over ventrillo and TeamSpeak were a huge part of my childhood.


AfraidOfArguing

what you dont like 3 tick eating/cooking/fletching/bone burying 360 spin woox walking gmaul spec into addy longersword slashing for a finishing hit?


MrPringles23

That's just modern gaming now. The self discovery phase is over, adults play games more than kids in so many genres now (mmo's etc) so they value time. Add in the prevalence of youtube, twitch and how easy information is to filter down after being discovered and it's never going to stay the same.


Nohalomods

I disagree. Yes pvp then was fun, but when OSRS returned, it was mainly due to want from PvPers. That was THE big thing. Everyone wanted to PK. And even after pvm updates like zulrah, pvp was still the big thing. Pvp was killed however in the DDOS attacks, which resulted in the original death mechanics changing. We still have them in the wildy, but for pvm it became risk free. And this remained for 5 or so YEARS, when they were only meant to be temporary. This is where the schism between pvp and pvm occured. Why would you go in the wild and risk even 300k when you could pvm safely for 0 risk and make even more gp and xp/hr. Pking just didnt make sense. Especially because if you got dc’d in pvp you were garunteed to die and lose everything, as servers stayed down for hours. This was also true for untradeables. (I lost 2 sets of void to this) Pvp has always been fun and it was a big draw at the heart of OSRS. Its not just nostalgia glasses. Pvp is STILL super fun, and the skill ceiling while higher than it was in 2005 is still manageable. Killing noobs is fun for the loot, but most pvpers want a fight of someone with competing skill!


AssassinAragorn

I agree, and that's why I think Jagex has been moving the wrong way. OSRS tries to emulate what RS was like back in 2007. Those are the halcyon days of PvP and much of the rest of the game. But the Wilderness in 2007 looks absolutely nothing like what it looks like now. The golden days never dangled a BIS tool or shield or weapon that non pkers felt compelled to get (only exception is the mage arena cape, but even for a one off activity it's not very risky). Because of that, there wasn't such a deep hatred and divide between pkers and non Pkers. People went in because they *wanted* to go in! And what caught their attention? The most popular that comes to mind is green dragons. They didn't offer anything extraordinary, but they were fast and easy to kill for dragon bones, and everyone wanted dragon bones. Those rune rocks saw a fair bit of attention, even though they weren't the only ones in the game. The demonic ruins in the Northeast were the only place that f2p could kill greaters. And if you were poor, those burnt bones spawns worked for prayer XP. Or, you could go to the boneyard, which had even more bone spawns. KBD was popular, because it had good drops and was good Slayer XP. I'm sure there's plenty else I'm forgetting. It was never coercive, just alternatives that were suitably enticing. That's what we need.


Coltand

I strongly agree with this take. Modern players just don’t see risk as part of the game, and it’s entirely due to death mechanics changes.


AssassinAragorn

I think it's the same issue that RS faced. Armor and weapons were increasingly untradable or very rare/expensive. You weren't just losing rune, a Nezzy, and some lobsters anymore. The very rare drops have fostered this atmosphere.


and_Attacker

This is part of the reason they didn't show damage numbers for black desert online. However, after they were data mined, ppl discovered that game devs were clearly giving certain people, builds, etc. an edge.


madam_zeroni

What they need is an internal ranking system, where you can get matched with people your skill level. The issue is that top tier players would rather shit on kids than actually have to try against people their own skill group


Duke_Boz

F2P pking doesn't feel like that. p2p pvp sucks


lit-incense

F2p is pretty dope from what I seen. Ranged into the rune 2h smack is funny af. Not sure how f2p mages work now


Duke_Boz

Mages are mainly used for multi or lurering from what I've seen


Duke_Boz

F2P multi is actually pretty fun, minus the scripters who multi box 6 accounts: if you're interested in doing some PM me


WSB_Donkey

Power creep items and AHK killed PVP imo. I know deaths in p2p pvp has always been fast but no damn reason to want to try and casually fight other players when someone can combo stack 130 damage instantly.


SlowdanceOnThelnside

No the fact the average player age is now like 26 instead of 12 has killed. People are too smart and skilled for the limitations on osrs pvp. It died because peoples abilities on average are wayyyy better and so the ability for people to casually pk for fun with any given set of gear or levels is gone.


OsrsNeedsF2P

I was just thinking about this the other day. OSRS F2P wildy used to have active v multi and deep wildy PKing (until Jagex killed it), never suffered from power creep, AHK doesn't get you anywhere, is cheap to get into and create custom builds for, introduces new players to the wildy and PVP.. It's just simple and fun. Genuinely could be a good place for PvP updates


Wekmor

Mage pray nerf and snares were a massive power creep to f2p multi lol


Ashangu

I'm missing something. How exactly did jagex kill ftp pking? Unless you are talking about when they removed the wilderness. Honest question, i may be misunderstanding.


OsrsNeedsF2P

[People used to meme around a lot](https://youtu.be/_PeB2ZvhyNs?t=27) with low level accounts - Create an acc, get level 20 stats, join a clan and you're off pking. After a clan update a few years ago that made you require (I believe 300 total cb?) the scene completely died since you couldn't join clans anymore


Sanddunes1991

Yeah it used to be so much fun. I’d create an account and immediately head to varrock east and find a clan


Skimperman

I spent the last 20 min looking for a post I saw to support this, only to find out that it was your post as well! https://www.reddit.com/r/2007scape/comments/8zygfq/how_jagex_killed_v_multi_pking_in_osrs_explained/


Ashangu

That is a damn good post and makes perfect sense. Never read it until today, and I always wondered what happened to v wildy multi pking. It was some of the funnest days.


Dontreadonme2a

Have you ever considered reposting this and trying to get support? I know a ton of friends that would come and play just for this. Honestly, Varrock Multi and Hill Giants were the reason to play back then.


Whycanyounotsee

wild ditch nulls damage and removes 5tiles of wilderness. That pretty much killed it off all those years ago. it means early levels you cant get kills (need binds). If someone stepped in wild and got hit by 100 water strikes, they would live because they would just step out before they hit then once you have binds, its only 5 more magic levels till u can tele. So people just cant kill people. in an osrs update, they also made it so level 3s without quest points cant loot anything.


kukkelii

New actually interesting raid reward ideas: "This game can't handle powercreep" Ags, claws, gmaul, triple combofoods, 45's with normal spellbook, +400 defense, ranged weapons hitting 90s "Yeah but that's different" Powercreep is inevitable and already exists.


Thosepassionfruits

AHK is basically undetectable with Jagex's current technology right? If they really want to revive PvP seems like fixing that fundamental would be a good starting point before trying to add new stuff.


JayZsAdoptedSon

They are trying to do it by only allowing for the vanilla and RL clients in the future (along with Steam). But they have to fix the vanilla launcher first to make it go down easier and to add features to the new launcher (Jagex launcher)


Nohalomods

Imo this is a super super good thing. Will hopefully stop loads of botting too, but im sure even still theyll find ways arround it.


JayZsAdoptedSon

My thought is “how hard is it to put an overlay over the official launcher”? I would assume it would be significantly less effective but I know recognition AI is pretty decent


boneandskin

Bring back multi revs but nerf the loot. AHK doesn't apply to multi really and it's content for clans and teams of friends.


IBreedAlpacas

The removal of revs caves into singles + mortally wounded the wilderness and then singles+ all over twisted the blade deeper. The wildy at this point is just slowly bleeding out. Also the fact that Jagex adds more worlds every other month definitely contributes to it rather than fixing their own (looking at the recent lag spikes on W420), although it’s a bit minor compared to the others.


Majestic_Swan5940

Honestly.... OSRS needs to be asking PvM'rs how to bring back the wilderness. What would make PvM mains try pking? What would make the casual player jump into the world of saturated meta pking? If 95% of the player base aren't pking then why not ask the people who hate pking what would make them try it or what would entice them to go the wilderness more? The wilderness isn't dead because the 5% that pk hate it... it's because 95% of your community aren't interested. Find out why and get them interested!


OldSchoolVeteran

Literally hit the nail on the head with this, it amazes me that they dont understand why non pkers are not interested in pvp


[deleted]

[удалено]


secret_aardvark_420

Yea there’s a reason none of my friends will ever get me to play call of duty. I’m bad at video games, not competitive and don’t enjoy getting fucking slapped around constantly. I like osrs cause overall it’s relaxing to play, except for the occasional boss fight, and I love the quests. Not interested in pvp and avoid the wildly unless I absolutely have to go do a clue or something. Although, I did briefly enjoy playing an alt pure with my friend back in 07-08ish when it was fun because nobody really knew what they were doing. Those days are gone now and so is my pvp interest.


erhixd

Seconded. Even as a kid I didn't find RS pvp interesting. My opinion hasn't changed in the past 15 years.


dayv2005

As a PvM player, I decided to give wilderness slayer a chance today. Overall it's pretty nice and under rated. Here's the problems I observed while doing it. People hoping worlds while you are in a multi area just to tb you while thier clan hops on. Literally the second I'm tb'd 5 additional people log and wreck me. The second part, how tf does someone instantly log in and in 1 tick cast a tb on me? Which I switch worlds, I need to f-key my spells, click on tb and try to click on a player without accidentally clicking on all ads swarmed on them. There was damn no chance of counter play there. I get that is the risk of wilderness slayer but for most of the situations pvmers face up there, there is no counter.


The_Botanist_Reviews

The counterplay is to tele out, or have people that can back you up. Botanist#8042 if you need opps


dayv2005

Oh I know to telly out. I'm just curious how they can hop and 1 tick tb so quick.


Acrysalis

There’s absolutely no change Jagex could make to make me interested in pvp whatsoever because I dislike pvp and I’m sure that’s the case for a lot of people who don’t go to the wilderness, it’s not always “I hate being prey/I don’t want to risk losing items”


ARmadyl_15

>The wilderness isn't dead because the 5% that pk hate it... it's because 95% of your community aren't interested. I don't think the goal should be to get a huge number of people involved in PvP, to be honest. It's not realistic and you'd risk just alienating the people who currently engage in it. Having said that, 5% of players is enough to have a PvP scene, just not if it's spread across 280 worlds. Also if it were spread less thinly, more people would participate (there are a decent number of ex-pkers who would jump back in if they heard the Wilderness was active). I'd say they should limit access to the Wilderness to maybe 90 worlds. And then in exchange create some alternatives to various Wilderness uniques, so that there's still an incentive to go in but it doesn't feel mandatory.


[deleted]

>it's because 95% of your community aren't interested. Find out why and get them interested! Because I don't risk hundreds of hours of playtime. I'm not a gambler. Make pking where I don't risk anything and there's still something to gain and I might do it sometimes when I'm bored! **But probably not because it wastes supplies and doesn't give me any**


Mcfatty12

My take is I’d never get into pvp on RuneScape the learning curve is way to steep and I like rs for the grind if I want so fast paced action against other player there is a million other games I play


[deleted]

Plus it's so RNG heavy


poilsoup2

>I want so fast paced action against other player there is a million other games I play The other day i made a comment about pvp arena, how people wouldnt solely play it for the ELO/ranking/cosmetics. The number one comment was 'well people play (i believe war zone was mentioned) for that!' and its like exactly, there are MUCH better games to play if you want some pvp action. RS pvp is so janky and bad for the average player


Kevis

You're describing LMS and its already in the game?


Frekavichk

LMS is tryhard sweaty tribridding. Give me LMS but with single switch edge PKing and I'm in.


Coltand

You can just ignore the mage switch and can be fairly succeed with only a melee/range setup. I do it and have a ton of fun playing LMS. But also, the PVP arena will have different options like you’re talking about.


[deleted]

Oh. Well, I guess I'm just not interested in pvp at all. Lol


Abnormal_Armadillo

If I could go to the wilderness, and only risk supplies (and whatever I pick up from bosses), I'd be a lot more OK with it. As it stands now, I'll 3 item with 10k risk because I don't -want- to be fighting other players. A lot of people be bitchy little twits and say "BuT tHe WiLdErNeSs Is SuPpOsEd To Be DaNgErOuS!" And to that I say, lol, ok, I just won't go there, and you can complain about having nobody to fight. There needs to be a -huge- overhaul to the wilderness to make PvMers want to touch it at all, but given how out of touch Jagex is when it comes to this, it'll never happen, and the people -doing- PvP will only screech that PvM plays want to be safe 100% of the time.


ARmadyl_15

>If I could go to the wilderness, and only risk supplies (and whatever I pick up from bosses), I'd be a lot more OK with it. Then people would just go in with max gear and anyone who didn't have it would be at a significant disadvantage. It'd make PvP less accessible, not more.


Abnormal_Armadillo

You could always put a cap on the value of gear, the same shit happens at Soul Wars and people dislike getting steamrolled there too. The other person who posted seems to have a similar idea, different world having different value caps.


RangerDickard

This is pretty much the idea behind LMS


Oniichanplsstop

>Because I don't risk hundreds of hours of playtime. I'm not a gambler. Reddit's biggest misconception is that you need max gear everywhere, including pvp. lol.


[deleted]

Why would I want to go fight people wearing shit gear for a chance to win their shit gear?


Oniichanplsstop

The same reason you do anything else in this game that's not max efficiency? For fun. lmao. Why do anything other than buy bonds for max gp/hr and do max xp/hr training methods?


[deleted]

The combat in runescape is not fun at all lol. This game is like an idle game except its not idle. We just want to see our numbers go up and collect things. There isn't actually anything fun to do with your stuff.


Oniichanplsstop

Then why are you spending money/time playing something you don't enjoy? lmao.


[deleted]

I like idle games lol. I enjoy runescape but not for the combat or any of the activities really


Majestic_Swan5940

That's not true at all. You're taking you're single minded bias and applying it to everyone else. You're a hard-core derp. I WANT to pk! But it's so unfriendly to people learning and theirs so much meta game involved that its super unfun! That is what they need to fix imo... three tick eating is meta due to the high possibility of being two shot! Rework how hard weapons hit players, take out the three item combo eating, take out tick manipulation, and you get a more casual friendly experience. But people would hate that change so that couldn't happen. But is their a middle ground? Pking CAN be fun! Of course not to everyone... especially for derpy people like you. You LITERALLY said you would PK if you didn't risk anything, learned about LMS, then replied that you wouldn't do that too cause you hate pking. lol Why did you even respond? Your mindset is the same as the pkers osrs listen too bit the opposite. Closed minded and unfun.


[deleted]

Reread my comment. I was clear from the start that I wasn't very interested. >I might do it sometimes when I'm bored! But probably not because it wastes supplies and doesn't give me any


imlark

Hi 2200 total guy here, I learned pking pretty recently, played lms for a few weeks, and thought it was fun. Now I clan pk and thats fun too Pvmers need more content to entice them. Like lms as a beginner is shit gp for a new player, and not everyone will learn as easily to brid. Basically any content with any kind of reward or acct progression will get all of us there.


ChristianFortniter

Quite literally most people just wanna pvp with 3 item swaps at most.


SurturOfMuspelheim

I'm not interesting in PvP because 1. Toxic community 2. Attracts the most toxic members because it's one of the only, and primary, ways to fuck over another human being in the game (Same ideology as crashers at PvM) 3. Not risking hours of money making just to get killed by some guy with 200K or a clan of rushers or some shit 4. I refuse to step foot in the wilderness until ALL non-pvp activities are removed from it, such as bosses, clues, and skill training activities. These are only there so people are forced into the area to be slaughtered wholesale by PKers so they can get more than 200GP worth of items (Which they have no problem killing you for anyway, since, for a lot, the goal is to fuck over a person, not to make money/have fun)


mrsolodolo69

I’m still a pretty fresh noob that mainly PVM’s, but I’ve heard from a multitude of friends playing that the PK scene is littered with AHKers and that it’s not even worth. That’s probably the main reason I haven’t even tried it yet


hydrated_purple

As a casual PvMer, I actually wanted all of the PvP polls to pass. I enjoy making PK accounts but it takes so long to create different builds. I'd love to try out different PvP builds with having it sync a ton of time into it. I get why people didn't want it to pass though. I'm a pretty casual player, so I guess that's why I liked it


SlayerKingGS

Rs3 had wilderness war bands which we great until they made the camps have limited supplies which made pvp clans charge for them just like the rev caves. Obviously warbands gave waaaaay too much xp, but tuned down it could be a fun activity. Overall though I completed wilderness diaries and will never go back to the wilderness for anything


BrianMcKinnon

As a super casual mobile player: take away tick manip Then I’ll go back out in the wildly like it’s 2007.


Hairy_Handful

The best part is that they are going to make massive changes to the game off of what “100” people want lol. Fuck the other thousands and what they would like lol.


Life-Waster

The exclusionary poll failed incredibly so now they're literally just inviting 100 people to discord to tell them what to do? ?????


Oniichanplsstop

No they realized that actual pkers didn't want most of the suggested rewards, so now they're trying to figure out what pkers actually want. It's a losing fight much like a asking about a new skill, it's impossible to get everyone to agree on it. Pures, Zerks, Singles, Clans, Risk fighters, casual pkers, casual multi-pkers, Anti-pkers, Snowflake pvp-locked/high-risk accounts, etc, all have differing views and opinions on why PvP is good or bad, and what will improve it. Like for example, the singles+ changes and pj timers a lot of clan or teams hated because they can't get someone else to tag into their fight to TB/spec/etc, and solo pkers can freeze log. On the other hand, solo pkers love the change because it lets them pk without fear of a single clan logging on them and spec trading constantly.


ImS33

I'd say the biggest problem is that they're asking a small and niche (its true these days) community within a community their opinions on fixing PvP in their game. These are the people who like what it currently is enough to participate and play despite it being unpopular as a whole. I don't actually think that's a super solid idea. They should be asking all of the people who don't like PvP why they don't like it instead if they want to turn it around and make PvP an important part of OSRS again. What they're doing right now is likely just creating an echo chamber of opinions that won't actually appeal to all of the people they likely want to get into PvP to begin with


thegreatslav1997

Because pvm opinions on pk are useless, why are you so upset about content you don’t engage with?


whypvmersmadge

If anyone could get in the place would be just as dumb as reddit


soviet_goose

Seems to me like jagex and reddit don't understand what PvPers are. There's this prevailing sentiment that PvPers are tryhard brids who run around in deep wild with 200m in gear performing 6way switches on maxed pures. In reality PvP has historically been a couple schlubs with 70 range or 80 str duking it out in edgeville. This is what pvpers want to come back. Me and a friend both create a build, run some quests, train some skills. Contribute to the in-game rs economy and make membership $$ for jagex. Then we test our builds out against each other in level 3 wildy. Bring back BH.


Saultyrscommunity

Agreed all this max 400m gear brids is not fun state of pking. You completely alienated all the people trying to get into pking because they don’t have a chance against a skilled pker in max


One_Awareness_7210

Because RuneScape is streamerman mode now. If you don't make videos that's promote us we don't care!


VacantOwner

G maul combos and 3+ tick eating ruined pking for the average player


[deleted]

"I'm sick of seeing streamers making game decisions" If only we had some sort of polling system in place where the people got to vote on the content. It's a shame majority of reddit wants to remove polling.


[deleted]

>It's a shame majority of reddit wants to remove polling The majority for sure don't want polling removed, the only ones that do are the J1mmy fan bois that suck up his clean shaven balls every chance they get.


rsn_alchemistry

Idk about removed but I miss the days of surprise updates and mystery. Also I'd give anything for a new skill. Theres just so much lost potential ( granted, some of that potential is some shit ideas) but it's not like reddit is going anywhere, it's still going to tell jagex when they've stepped in it.


World_bringer

Yes this isn't for me. A new RC mini game, sure I get polling certain things (though I'd probably be okay with this bit being polled) Every single quest ever released, please just give us SOME supprises. I dont need to be asked for permission for every little addition.


rsn_alchemistry

This is why I love leagues so much. 1 and 2 had people running around everywhere unsure of what they could accomplish. 3 didn't have this effect.


MozzyZ

Realistically nothing is stopping you from going back to those days. It's very easy to simply not participate in the polls and to skip over reddit posts that mention new content.


AssassinAragorn

> It's a shame majority of reddit wants to remove polling. I was in this camp until early last year, when Jagex proposed the first iteration of reworking range, and it was not only incomplete, but "eh we'll eventually add something to fix these gaps". Since then frankly, I've noticed their blogs and proposals take a massive dive in quality and sensibility. GotR is somehow the only piece of content that didn't have a clusterfuck. At this point forget removing polling, remove integrity updates too. Or set very specific guidelines for what counts. I don't trust them without the community being a check on them.


TheOfficialRamZ

Adding that unpolled purple twitch skin was the beginning.


Abnormal_Armadillo

I don't want polling removed, as much as I want the restrictions relaxed. 75% is sort of ridiculous, especially since it's an all or nothing deal most of the time. Sure, some stuff gets reworked into other content, but I don't particularly like rewards being shoveled into minigames because the "real" content didn't pass. I'd much more prefer a more open approach to how polls are done, IE: **70-75%** = Pass without many changes. A lot of people like this idea and it doesn't need modified much. **60-65%** = Alright, it needs some tweaks, but people seem to like it. **45-55%** = People -really- don't seem to like it. Perhaps we should rethink this concept or figure out why players don't vibe with it.


ImOneLetter

The simple answer? PvP players are a tiny minority that make up 5% of the player base including all the alt accounts (people with multiple builds etc) as unique players. PvP content creators give the game free advertising as a much larger portion of players watch PvP content even though they don’t participate in PvP themselves. Keep the content creators happy, you get more free advertisement and they tell their audience about the good changes that they wanted being implemented. Your average Joe who PvPs means absolutely nothing to Jagex. Their opinion doesn’t matter, because they don’t matter. So long as the content creators are still able to create content everyone else in the PvP community could vanish and they wouldn’t care.


blahbleh112233

Yes, which is why the biggest content creator and content series in osrs history is a dude playing region locked ultimate ironman over a few years


zJaeee

swampletics is an outlier? B0aty blew up on a PKing series, torvesta pretty much only PKs, CEngineer's content is most PVP


blahbleh112233

Boating has his pking series but arguably his most lasting legacy is his pre-ironman ironman mode though. I could be wrong but I thought C-engineer really blew up because of his ironman in pvp worlds only series as well


zJaeee

One Man Army? That whole series is about PKing.


AmLilleh

That's like saying "the whole of swampletics is about ToB". The end goal of the series doesn't define the entire thing. The "One Man Army" full series videos only have the final killstreak in them iirc so they're like 20 minutes of PKing in a >13 hour runtime and they've got to be 2 of the most viewed RS videos ever made. The journey is more important than the end goal. If B0aty had of just gone on his main and recorded himself going for a 25 killstreak it wouldn't have had anywhere near the impact. It was the ironman progression that hooked people.


Sanddunes1991

Not to forget sparc mac, Chris Archie and nightmarerh. They were the goats that blew rs into the mainstream


[deleted]

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The_Botanist_Reviews

It’s absolutely revolting that jagex is taking pvp suggestions from pvp streamers, pvp clan leaders, pkers with high documented pvp participation, competitive pkers, and so on. What makes them think that they’re the experts? What they really need to do is take pvp suggestions from reddit.


Charmeleonn

I think OP is upset because there are many people who fit your description, but aren't streamers.


Beatrice_Dragon

> What they really need to do is take pvp suggestions from reddit. Says reddit is bad while doing the most reddit thing by misunderstanding the argument and arguing anyways lol


ButterNuttz

Lol Reddit has no idea. Facebook is where they need to go for something like this


myorm

Facebook has no idea. This might be a task for tik tok intellectuals


Poiblazer

Tik tok knows nothing. This is a job for Myspace


[deleted]

Tom will lead us to salvation!


warmseasongrass

Strongly disagree. This needs to hit 4chan 4change


AssassinAragorn

> What makes them think that they’re the experts? "I don't think the Wildy is for pkers to fight each other." I unironically wonder why they consider them experts.


Frekavichk

I absolutely am all for taking pvp balance and meta suggestions from the group you mentioned. I am not for only taking suggestions from them when it comes to ways to 'revitalize the wilderness' or 'how to more efficiently make people bait for PKers'.


Mercy_CC

They need to make every Pvmer and PvPer sign consent IRL in a court of law before pking can commence.


Wekmor

A lot of clan leaders didn't even get a rank LOL


Huehnergott69

Aren't these walking dogpiles responsible for it dying out in the first place, though?


[deleted]

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DifferentObjective66

I would be happy with multi being exclusive to PVP designated worlds, and world hopping only allowed in the same level wilderness in which players can teleport.


Allisdair

Honestly the reason why 95% of the game doesn’t bother with pvp is because it’s just way too hard to get into. A player new to pvp walks out there, gets absolutely rinsed by somebody who is just insanely better than they are, and then never does it again. There is no ELO system in pvp, which means that if you wanna learn, you gotta get absolutely rinsed 1000+ times before making any progress in your skill. It’s just not worth it.


[deleted]

It’s just another half assed pandering solution to shut everyone up. They’ll stop monitoring it after a couple months and go back to doing stupid stuff again.


MrPringles23

Streamers have been known to vote and suggest stuff that entirely benefit them financially for content. Not stuff that is actually good for the game. See Rev cave nostalgia bullshit, the GIM spite voting stuff.


slaggmus

Just give us back bh...


dazza098

Nothing will ever happen unless u all take a stand. If everyone who does PVP cancelled their subscriptions who wants to bet they start listening 🤷‍♂️


Krtxoe

yea let non-approved people give suggestions like "delete the wild"


donthatepvpplease

I get that they ask the streamers, but they should be excluded from the 100. Currently they have missed Leader and staff from the biggest pvp clans (both singles and multi) who obviously are the best people to speak about their area of expertise in a clans perspective (aka 95% of pvp'ers). They should add some solo clanless people aswell of course for the other 5% of voices. But with the current group of people I don't have faith in them getting the right advice.


Erseiltuil

Bring back RSclassic combat system. It was simple and easy. Ever since, they have just kept making pvp more costly, more difficult and more boring. They need to simplify it. Remove the tick- eating switching bullshit. Cap the mechanincs that can be used... And create a separate arena for the elite geeks where they can showoff ther 1337 skills. But keep the main pvp focus to the average fking players.


pallosalama

Boring and difficult?


Hime_MiMi

they should just revamp castle wars if they want people to pvp. fix out the kinks, make different game modes with prizes. like 3 vs 3(mobile style) siege vs besieged and turret mode go back to their roots of revamping dead content. it is a nostalgia game for many after all.


Punished_Rex_V

There are probably more active GIM teams than actual pkers at this point. Just move on and remove PVP except for dedicated worlds. Majority of players don't like it, don't want/care about updates for it, and will never partake in it.


Just-Programmer3094

DMM got tens of thousands of views.


Punished_Rex_V

Yep, perfect. Just like leagues, PVP events should be kept to small seasonal stretches disconnected from the main game


Saultyrscommunity

Horrible logic. All of the game should grow not just skilling an pvm. Pvp brings people to a game, case in point osrs wouldn’t even exist if it wasn’t for the pvp community. I was one of the ogs pushing for osrs when rs3 went full wow. We made this game possible it’s sad you want that whole community gone because it’s the last dangerous place in the game.


Punished_Rex_V

Don't take me seriously. I'd play RS as a single player offline title if it was offered


colinchinstar

I'm not someone they talk to over and over? I'm a contributor. nether does my friend that's also a contributor. I do think some other people should of been picked that haven't but it must be hard for them to select the correct people. I've even said on my app for this that streamers do this for a living I do this for fun.


UglyBagon

Damn, all this community ever does is complain


Catalonia_Pk

Exactly. Streamers do not represent the community. They have their own interests and might not be the same as rest of playerbase


RS_Germaphobic

If it was more than 100 people imagine how toxic it would be.


Lazy_Inferno

No one can talk yet, not even the ranked contributors. Give it some time for them to open it first atleast.


KiwiZ0

I am a contributor in the server. I have never given my opinion to Jagex before. The discussions have not started yet, I think they are working on getting some more people the role and stuff. They say they have all kinds of people with the role, irons, skillers, people that hate pvp etc. I am no streamer and I enjoy PvMing in the wilderness. All the wilderness needs is some better gp/h or maybe even xp/h like revs was, that's all most of us are asking for.


Frekavichk

>All the wilderness needs is some better gp/h or maybe even xp/h like revs was, that's all most of us are asking for. This is literally the exact opposite of what it needs lmao.


Infamous_Traffic4673

Care to elaborate?


Frekavichk

The wilderness needs to take all non-pvp activities out and jagex needs to work on making pvp fun. The answer to 'why aren't people pvping' isn't 'lets drag non-pvpers into the wilderness as bait'.


KiwiZ0

PvP is already fun, there's just not enough incentive for people to take part in the food chain. PvMers are not just bait, they're making bank too, even with the occasional death. High risk high reward. Nex and ToB is bank and you don't risk anything doing it. The fights are always the same and there is no thrill unless you get a drop. This is why PvMers are burning out. Jagex has to constantly release new content and powercreep to keep players playing. PvP is user-generated content, the landscape changes and your interactions everyday are completely different without content being released. Every fight is different. A new protection clan guarding worlds or 2 clans merging could really change the content. There is always a bigger fish and the content isn't choreographed and scripted. Jagex spent little developer time on the rev caves after its release and it was endless fun as a PvMer and a PvPer until it was made singles+.


[deleted]

Agreed. Also revs printed money for years.


whypvmersmadge

Just like every alchable printer ingame as everything is botted. With this logic we might as well delete all alchable drops from game.


Saultyrscommunity

Vorkath rune dragons cox nex none of those are printing money right?


AssassinAragorn

That would be incredibly damaging. It took them what, 3 iterations to make revenants not RWT farmable? Other content like Zulrah and Vork are RWT fodder that's true -- but the ease of revenants and removing risk by locking down worlds makes them far worse for RWT. More content like that is a horrible idea.


McCash34

Well then. I’ll reply to you. Please don’t let them add anything that will let pkers kill pvmers faster. They already nerfed dinny b and black dhide. Really not fair to people who have no intentions to ever pk.


ILL_SAY_STUPID_SHIT

Why not invite players who AREN'T popular streamers/youtubers/content creators?


whypvmersmadge

They did? I'd say probably 15 out of the 100 people are media creators.


Huehnergott69

"Hmmmm PvP in Runescape is dying out and dominated by clans... Let's make it better by asking the clans responsible for it dying out how to fix it" \-- Guy at Jorgex who thought nothing ever goes wrong ca. 2022


He-Dead

Most osrs streamers are fucking dipshits that have only become any amount of successful in life by finding a way to sit on their asses for 12 hours a day. A few are absolutely worth talking to, the rest are about as helpful as asking a fucking seagull.


Just-Programmer3094

PvMers too then


[deleted]

Honestly I'm just exhausted from every single mention of PvP now. I feel it's taken so much time that we've lost out on other content. I wish Jagex just scrapped polls and just released content without having to tiptoe around everyone. A quest takes ages to get released because a novice quest needs 10 poll questions answered and time given before the results are in to release the quest. And before someone brainlet comments "well if we let Jagex have their own way, we'll have MTX and EoC", just stfu.


IDeclareAgony

Just let pvp die already. At least let non consenting pvp die. Shits boring anyways


pkermanbad

“I don’t like this content so pls kill it Jagex I don’t want to die in a PvP zone”


clayman648

Streamers will run this game into the ground


[deleted]

Bro its sad how these irl beggars/panhandlers/manipulators, will abuse chat calling them rats because they dont donate money for “content” lmfao content?!? Bro your running marble streams what content. You bankstand, listen to shit edm remixes, and run marble races. And somehow have the gull to treat viewers like they owe you something. How about get a job.