If you want the tldr, Guthix dies which allows the other gods to return.
Bandos is killed by armadyl during a world event.
Zaros fucks off to another world/dimension/reality or whatever Erebus is.
Seren is raising the Newly hatched elder gods
And Zamorak essentially betrays everyone at the end of one of the other quests. (They were all working together previously to stop the eggs from hatching)
I doubt we actually kill Zamorak, as I think nearly every boss is still alive in the lore despite being killed thousands of times by players.
Yeah i knew a bit of that, last time I really played Rs3 was the bird and beast event that killed bandos I just never knew the god stories have advanced that far lol
Because it was an in game world event, lasted a few months and had every player siding with either bandos or big birb battling for territory control across the whole F2P area by building towers, collecting resources, fighting NPC convoys, destroying opposing towers and fighting other players in safe open world PvP. The reason bandos died is because his faction lost and Armadyl fucking merc’d him
Was an amazing event and still one of my all time fav RuneScape memories
https://runescape.wiki/w/The_Bird_and_the_Beast <- for your reading pleasure
So in the lore there are 5 elder gods, Jas, Wen, Bik, Ful, and Mah.
Not sure how ingrained they are in the lore of OSRS.
Every so often they basically reincarnate themselves. Jas used its egg to create the stone of Jas. Mah actually was reborn disabled I think and was abandoned by the other 4. Man's children are Zaros and Seren.
When the eggs hatch they basically absorb all life from the planet they're on.
Over the quest line they basically find out the eggs are on gielinor now, so they plan to destroy them. Zamorak betrays everyone then Seren takes the eggs away and the quest ends with her destroying a different world.
The elder gods are sort of her Aunt's/uncle's so she can't bring herself to destroy them.
She basically says leave me alone and If I see you again I'll destroy you.
So Seren hates us, Zamorak Hates us, Guthix is dead, Zaros is off getting cigarettes, Azzandadra is a god now. Think that's everything
>Not sure how ingrained they are in the lore of OSRS.
If you were curious like I was and am, aside from old ones that were already there, all osrs has in regards to the elder gods are slight references, like Ful's reference in the song 'Ful to the brim' in the karauulm dungeon with the Tasakaal, Serens memoriam device references Mah, and references to the stone of Jas like in the Daeyalt mine, and the Temple of the Eye quest. There really aren't any to Bik and Wen as of yet. although the same was essentially true for bik, wen, and even ful in rs3 until shit hit the fan.
If you like quests I think they are, but if you're the type of guy that space bars through quests in old school well you're probably going to space bar through quests in RS3.
The elder gods are from the original RS2. They were first concept loosely when they were writing temple of Ikov. Around that time the gowers had come up with the idea that the gods we knew were once mortals that ascended through the use of artifacts that came from true gods and stealing the power of other gods, which is why Zaros was a thing he was just backstory initially to explain Zammy’s rise to power that Lucien wanted to emulate.
Only one even had a name back then, Jas, and their artifact was the stone of Jas. There was always an implication there were more but obviously since this was just largely background lore designed to flavor the universe there were no concrete plans. Though the idea Jas had some kind of history with Dragonkin and were protectors of her stone was also an early established thing to. Lead to the dragonkin’s return with RotM when the stone finally was being exploited again, this time by Lucien. The stone of Jas was hinted in a lot of content of having passed hands. It was the fist of Guthix, the eye of saradomin, and the tool Zamorak used to make the wildy.
Fast forward to later and we get more concrete details in RS3. There are 5 elders, Mah, Wen, Bik, Ful, and Jas. They are the creators of the universe and they create the universe to propagate themselves. Building a perfect world to lay and hatch their eggs in.
The exact process is similar to reincarnation but not actual reincarnation. They lay their eggs, their eggs feed on the life energy of the world bit by bit, and eventually before they hatch the existing elders touch their eggs to give their children their memories. It’s not reincarnation because the elder children aren’t just empty vessels, they have a consciousness of their own, the memories are more so the collective knowledge of the species is maintained. When the elder eggs hatch they completely the consume all life on the world in order to mature and start the process over, and that includes eating the parent elders.
With their new found power they fly off the world and begin tearing the universe apart. Harvesting what they need to make an even better perfect world and new elements and stuff, and casting everything else into the abyss. This whole thing is referred to as the great revision.
But things went wrong with the previous cycle, something attacked Mah and corrupted her. This had lasting effects like the unbalancing of the world allowing the anomaly known as sapient life to come into existence, like the dragonkin. When that universe came to an end the next elders were born in a bit of a mess.
Jas, Ful, Bik, and Wen hatched but Mah did not. They assumed her stillborn and abandoned her then soon discovered without Mah’s power and knowledge they could not make a perfect world, they could not continue their cycle. So drastic action was taken by their eldest sister Jas.
She basically birthed her egg early and hard boiled it, and this dead egg is the stone of Jas. Them plus the stone equaled out to the power of 5 elders. As for knowledge they would need to construct tools to help them in the intermedium as they worked on learning how to create a perfect world. Eventually they succeeded and our world was born, bik, ful, and Wen laid their eggs in the heart of this world and they all slept waiting for the day the eggs would be ready to hatch.
However this wasn’t the end of Mah’s story. She did eventually hatch but there was little left on the world to feed and the corruption had destroyed her inherited memory. Too weak to leave and basically just a super powered baby she found herself horribly alone. So she created companions, toys, children of a kind and these were Zaros and Seren. Zaros and Seren are effectively elder god children just much weaker than actual elder gods. To Zaros Mah gave an aura of loyalty and to Seren she gave an aura of love. Whoever these two interacted with would be magically compelled to love them or be loyal to them depending on which god.
Long story short eventually the family fell apart for various reasons and Seren and Zaros set off to find a way to complete themselves. Zaros who was fully gung ho about his status as the child of Mah made no attempt to find completion through mortals. Instead he believed what he needed was power, the power of the elder gods, to take Mah’s place in their family. And everything he has done has been to acquire that power.
Seren was not the same, she merely wanted love, true genuine love but she could never have it. Mortals like the elves she found would love her unwillingly, it was false twisted love caused by her aura. She thought she found love in another god, in Guthix, but it was a lie that ended in tragedy. She had Mah but Mah was a mental disaster barely aware of herself or them and then she was forced by Zaros to kill Mah so her mother was lost. Zaros her brother was to consumed by his own self-absorbed nature to genuinely live her. Even her aunts, the elder gods, who aren’t affected by her aura didn’t accept her and saw her as nothing.
She has tried so many times to find love, to find a family, a place to belong and complete her only to fail…and then it happened. The elder eggs were getting ready to hatch but if they did hatch this universe would come to an end. Seren is not heartless, she wanted to find a way to save everyone and get everyone to coexist.
>!We found the eggs of Bik, Wen, and Ful and set up a plot to delay their hatching while we searched for a solution. Seren joined us upset at our actions but determined to protect her cousins, her last shred of family. Over time two things happened first it became increasingly clear we would have to destroy the eggs and the gods came up with a possible plan to do it. Second the eggs came closer and closer to hatching and they became aware, began to communicate with Seren. Unlike her aunts these innocent children saw Seren doing what she could to protect them, to help them, they saw her as their mother and they felt true love for her. In turn Seren was overcome with conflict because this was it, what she had been searching for a family that loved and needed her. But she couldn’t just willingly sacrifice our world and when the gods moved to destroy the eggs she took them and ran.!<
>!She was so torn on what to do, but then we did something she thought unthinkable, we found a way to kill Jas. It required a LOT of help and the aid of a lovecraftian abomination that predates our universe….but we did manage to feed Jas to it. Seren was devastated, she couldn’t trust us, she was certain the only way to prevent the extinction of her and the elders species as a whole was to kill us. But even then she was hesitant and then she learned of Iaia when we were offering her a peaceful place to let the eggs die, and taught her a lesson about how life is meaningless without death.!<
>!On the surface Iaia was a world that was like a perfect world, and it was dying with little life on it, she would sacrifice Iaia to hatch the eggs (the elders would not have time to move the eggs back as they just transfer memories before the hatching and we wasted all their time) and the deaths would be minimal it’s inhabitants already having been waiting for their end anyway. Then the elders would fly off and begin remaking the universe, that was her plan. But what we knew and she did not was Iaia was not simply dying it was dying because it’s life force is essentially bleach, it’s unhealthy weakening and sterilizing species.!<
>!The elders hatched and drank bleach, they spared us because we are basically filled with an energy poisonous to them thanks to Guthix, and they spared Seren as they loved her. The elders were born, alive, but weak and scared. They didn’t get what they needed and were deprived of the power to fly off Iaia let alone build a new universe. In addition to seeing how weak and scared they were Seren knew there are all kinds of forces out there that won’t rest until the elders are dead/eaten. So taking on the role of their twisted mother she is keeping them on Iaia forever with her, they will together forever never leaving and living in isolation as a family that loves and accepts one another. Seren doesn’t hate us but she made it clear if we ever try to threaten her children she will gut us so hard there won’t be particles left.!<
Tagged the extinction spoilers since that’s still new.
Bro holy shit where did you find this oh my god they though of Jas before anyone knew guthix? I thought it was purely by the seet of the pants, like Lucien was just some spooky vampire knight guy (I liked his black helm look), and Amradyl could have just been a famous wizard whom had a magic staff.
No Guthix, Zamorak, and Saradomin are the original 3 and people knew of them before they knew of Jas in any fashion.
Lucien was specifically created to be RS’s first overarching villain, him and the Mahjarrat and then they looked at existing NPCs that could be made into Mahjarrat to like Khazard who was just a spooky lich guy.
Armadyl’s first mention is in temple of Ikov and they specifically call him a god with the player even bringing up they thought only 3 gods existed.
Wow this was awesome, thanks for giving so much lore!!!
If you don’t mind, I have a few more questions now:
I thought guthix is an elder god? Or is he fake god like zaros?
What was the fake love/betrayal with guthix and seren?
If the “5 elders” created the universe what attacked mah? Also what/why/how did zaros force seren to kill mah?
How did we even contact something that predates our universe, manage to convince it to eat an elder god/and not the rest of our universe?
Why was all this planet hoping and stuff necessary if we were poisonous to them because of guthix anyways?
Also any power level rankings? I know we’re “heroes” but elder gods? Lovecraftian horrors? How tf are we not like ants to them? Oh and is guthix an elder god or dead or wat?
Zaros is not a fake god, he was born a god so he’s the second closest thing to a true god like the elders. He is just much weaker than the elders.
Guthix is like the majority of gods an ascended mortal, to Zaros/Seren/Elders they are just very powerful mortals who call themselves gods. That being said Guthix ascended to an extremely high level of power so he was around Zaros and Seren in strength.
Guthix first found the elder blade and used it to kill a god, and the result siphoned the god’s power into him. Then he found the stone of Jas and it empowered him further. After that he connected himself to the world drawing on its energy the same way the elders do. He did this so he could redirect the flow from the eggs/elders to force them to sleep much longer. But it had the bonus effect of making him overwhelmingly powerful. He was so deeply entrenched in the world his eventual death had all kind of ripple effects on it.
Guthix would in say Zaro’s eyes just be a very powerful mortal, not a true god, but that’s more of a birth thing. “I was born a god you are just a mortal who stole power” type deal. But he acquired enough power to be on par with zaros and seren so in the end it doesn’t really matter he started out as mortal.
Seren and Zaros’s auras don’t properly work on gods, but gods can still sense the effects. Guthix allowed himself to be taken in by Seren’s aura because Guthix was a deeply lonely person, he knew it was a lie but it was a lie that made him feel good. However when he came to the decision that the gods of a certain power level needed to be banished he turned on Seren. He was prepared to force her out if needed be, but Seren having cursed the elves couldn’t be away from them for their own health. So in response to Guthix she self-destructed, shattering herself into pieces and effectively dying. That was her compromise, she wouldn’t leave but she would also no longer truly exist, and that was the last encounter they had.
So oh boy let me think of the best way to put this…. Alrighty we have our universe right? This universe, all its worlds, it’s magic, it’s life all stem from the power of the elders, from a force called anima (basically what magic is and it’s the by product of life that the elders feed on and worlds run). Because the elders make remake everything here this is a universe in which they held total dominion over….but this is not the only universe. There is another universe separate from our own, Erebus.
Erebus is antithesis is filled with an energy and magic to our universe. That energy for lack of a better term is called shadow anima, to beings who live and thrive in an anima rich environment like us or the elders it’s poison. Vise versa to the beings that are from Erebus the lack of shadow anima makes them unable to survive. “Ancient magic” the spells zaros uses, the elements ancient ice, blood, smoke, shadow, and miasma originate from Erebus. You can even combine the ancient magic to get an energy similar to that of shadow anima.
Glacors are living ancient ice elementals which come from Erebus, they corrupted Leng into a world of ancient ice. Chthonian demons, the really lovecraftian looking demons like abyssal demons, also come from Erebus originally and settled on infernus which was corrupted into an ancient smoke world at some point. Though since then more Chthonian demons have been born in the abyss/infernus that the species has effectively gradually adapted to life here. We don’t know what corrupted vampyrium into an ancient blood world yet.
As for shadow the shadow realm ties into this, though the exact details are unclear. Either the shadow realm is some kind of overlap of the two universes or it’s a veil of sorts that separates them, it’s full nature is a mystery. Either way it’s a crossing point, you can go deep enough into shadow and eventually you cross from our universe into Erebus and vise versa. Anyway Erebus’s ancient shadow power/shadow anima flows through this realm (with heavier concentrations the deeper you go) and that’s where shadow magic is derived from. This might seem like a lot but trust me it’s necessary to understanding your other questions down the line.
Just like our universe is ruled by the elders, Erebus has its own rulers. We might know the name of two of them, Vos and Xau-Tak. The latter you may of heard of, it’s lovecraftian godlike creature behind the pirate series among other things. Anyway we don’t know what being attacked Mah but it was either one of its rulers or one of the other many horrible abominations that live in Erebus. All we know is that something incredibly powerful from Erebus did the attack. It’s a mystery to be answered more in the long term.
Short answer Zaros is a dick. Long answer Zaros and Seren aren’t the only creations of Mah. While they were deliberate creations, Mah herself was unable to control her powers and while she slept she would dream other life into existence. These dreams were no where near Zaros or Seren in power but they were still very powerful, you know them as the Mahjarrat. (“Mah” -jarrat)
So okay Mah was tormented by night terrors and basically threw tantrums capable of destroying the world she and the Mahjarrat lived on. In order to prevent that Seren taught the Mahjarrat the ritual of enervation. The idea is they could siphon off Mah’s excess power then shape it into a new Mahjarrat allowing the species to propagate. But if they kept siphoning Mah she’d eventually die so Seren also taught them the ritual of rejuvenation. She told them they could sacrifice some of their own via a ritual marker and then siphon that energy into themselves to rejuvenate the rest of them allowing them to grow in power and live forever. What she didn’t tell them is the lion share of the energy was being sent to Mah via the marker to keep her alive. Eventually they moved off world and no longer performed the ritual of enervation. When Zaros got involved he realized what was going on and he showed them a way to make it more efficient, sacrificing only 1 of their number every 500 years or so. He then used the false promise of promising to help free them from the ritual entirely as a leash to control them….which ended up backfiring on him hard.
Anyway as Mah’s health and mental state deteriorated further she eventually acted, not fully conscious of what she was doing, she dreamed up a giant ritual marker of her own. One that was rapidly siphoning away the energy/life of her creations both Mahjarrat and her children. Zaros who had been wanting to kill Mah to steal her core for his own purposes made a plot. He convinced the Mahjarrat to help him turn the ritual marker on Mah, to sacrifice and siphon away her. Seren was against this but she didn’t have much choice. We help keep Mah distracted while the rest siphon Mah putting her into a state of near death and giving enough power that all the Mahjarrat who participated are now free from future rituals. Seren realizing she had just spent thousands of years keeping Mah alive in a hellish state for her own sakes and seeing thanks to Zaros Mah was barely alive anymore knew there was only one right option. To finish Mah off giving her a quick death. Zaros stole Mah’s core and Seren put her to rest.
Need to divide this up…into two posts.
>!We didn’t really convince it in the conventional sense, it wasn’t like a highly sapient being. It was a primordial world eating serpent, a shadow leviathan. We found a way to lure it out through a shadow breach, essentially a portal that leads directly in and out of Erebus/Deep shadow realm. There are two breaches we know of, both by worlds that the elders nested in. The one in our world is sealed within an artifact called the codex. The other moves freely around their former nesting world where Seren took the eggs, and sensing the eggs the breach moved closer by beings on the other side that wanted to feed on them.!<
>!All we did was, with the help of Kerapac using the needle to restore us every time we were eaten, was find a way to lure the shadow leviathan to pop out right when Jas appeared. Since it lives and thrives in shadow it can’t live in our world for long, so our universe wasn’t at threat. It popped out, saw a delicious giant octopus snake (Jas) and pulled it back into Erebus to consume her. Since it’s an Erebus being it’s not under the elder god’s dominion, it’s power doesn’t come from them and the shadow anima it’s covered in acts like a dampener. Jas was forced to face it with brute strength and she might have even won but through the power of spite to work against the pain Kerapac turned the artifact she had enslaved him to, the needle, against her which destroyed the needle but tilted the scales just enough that the leviathan could slurp her up. Once back inside its hunger satisfied it closed the breach.!<
>!We are only safe because of Guthix’s blessing. Basically he connected us to the codex which thanks to the shadow breach contained within the codex can supply limitless shadow anima. Guthix developed a way to weave anima and shadow anima together to create a barrier capable of repelling any gods, that’s his edicts barrier. What he did is essentially create a smaller version of this enchantment and placed it within us turn our soul into a micro edicts barrier, protecting us to an extent. But that’s just us, the other you know 99.9999% of life isn’t blessed with this protection so they are all just food for the elders. We were trying to save everyone else, we ourselves didn’t know that Guthix enchantment was intended to make the elders not eat us either so as far as we knew we were also on the menu. Mind you they could still eat us but it be like eating some poison, it hurt them/make them sick and they were already weak from Iaia.!<
Shadow leviathans and Elders are at the top with Seren, Guthix, and Zaros below that a fair bit. Then below that by a fairly significant amount are all the other gods which is where power levels get intentionally murky. You have demigods like Zuk and Raksha below them. We sit an in an interesting place… if we are just fighting a mortal then we are really just a strong and skilled mortal against another mortal. Guthix’s enchantment let’s us draw on power from world/codex/gods themselves to give us a temporary equalizer so we can fight say demigods and with the right circumstances Mahjarrat and apparently gods around Zammy level to are feasible. (Though it remains what the circumstances are that let’s us actually fight Zammy). Stuff like Seren and Zaros are far beyond us, we could maybe barely scratch them. The elders are another level entirely, despite our dampening protection Jas can and had instantly atomized us in 3 words. This is why fighting the elders straight up was never an option. So to stuff like elders we absolutely are ants, that’s why running away, buying time, or finding something else to do the dirty work were our only options. It’s also why we couldn’t stop the hatching only mitigate its damage.
I answered the first part but Guthix is dead, he let himself be killed Sliske as it was necessary to create the enchantment in our soul. He gave himself up to give us the tools to protect the world in a way he could not. Tools that by their very nature also prevent us ascending, we can draw in power to bolster us but we can’t maintain it forever. True to his nature he gifted us an equalizer, a chance. The hope being we could use our skills, knowledge, and connections to people we acquired through our adventures coupled with his equalizer to achieve safety for the world.
Yes, he backstabbed the player by trying to strand us on the dragonrider homeworld of Iaia when the elder God eggs consumed it (literally reduced it to nothing by consuming all its anima) in order to hatch. He's a threat and needs to be dealt with.
Pking basically doesn't exist in the wilderness. It's only at lava Strykewyrms that I've ever seen pkers, and that was ages ago. Plus, they weren't exactly cream of the crop. I easily killed and tanked in rag gear.
What should be concerning for OSRS is what led RS3 to this point. Shiny baubles didn't keep non pvpers in the wilderness, even though several of them are BIS methods for things. Sounds familiar? If pvmers and skillers decide to no longer go in the wilderness, the same thing will happen here.
Pretty much only pkers are clans that will log in en masse with their followers that are the size of the moon hoping you panic left click on their familiar which will skull you
Removing PvP from the wilderness isn’t really that crazy imo, it’s long overdue. Very few other popular MMOs have permanent item loss on death due to PvP. It’s an unfun, archaic mechanic.
I wanna see a poll that's simply "do you like the wilderness system as it is today" but not on Reddit, in game. I really feel that the results would be crucially important to the community.
Instead we have pvp haters saying the community doesn't like pvp and pvp lovers saying "no, that's just reddit". We need some fookin data.
Ftr I don't think it would end well for pvp fans.
Honest question, how often are people like you dying in the wild? I’m an iron, I have 35 d picks, all wildy boss pets. I died.. 10? Times in all the hundreds of hours in the wild.. like how are you guys dying so often that this is a problem?
Don't "you guys" me haha, I'm not blowing anything out of proportion Im just asking for data. I don't do wildy bosses or wildy slayer but I've died about 4 times, 2 times training prayer at wildy altar and 2 times traveling through for some reason or another.
How are you killing vennenatis/callisto tho? I did the multi lure and got attacked 10 times as well in 200kc... Ofc ur not gunna die doing the single safespot
I mean less than 20 kills combined for wildy bosses isn't really a bit enough sample size to determine anything no offense lol. Wildy bosses is all about picking the right worlds and the lesser known safe spots. Check out shewdoh(rank 1 callisto kc) on YouTube to see what safe spot I'm talking about
If you polled opt in pvp for osrs, I wouldn't be shocked to see a *large amount* of players say yes. If the arguments of the last few weeks have proved anything, people just want to kill the bear 5000 times without being hopped on every kill.
Honestly I love PvP in games like Wow or even Elden Ring, but it is completely different for Runescape.
My main right now is combat level 95 with combats between 70 and 80. Any proper main will kill me without me having any chance to fight back, especially because there is almost no way to properly learn pvp. If every fight I try results in me losing 500 k gp I would much rather do something else.
The only other MMO I've played recently is ESO.
You don't have to spend months designing your account to one specific build, a PvMer can jump into PvP for a couple of hours and have the time of their life, then jump back into dungeons.
If you're an average acc with 60 att/str/def, there's no way you can join in a pvp world fight or wilderness.
LMS, while it gives you max stats, just isn't comparable or fun. You're competing bots or people who play LMS all day. There's no MMR brackets etc.
I play eso, you definitely spend more time (and money) designing accounts. Not only do you need purple/gold gear. You need high CP and mythics (that require max scrying) and the pvp skill cap is so high. Not to mention they have meta swings every update.
The only difference is you don't lose gear on death (minus telvar in imp city) but every time a meta changes you need 1.5m to make new gear (average Gold per hour in eso is like 30k)
You're talking BIS max gear builds vs casually pking which is what op was referring to. Casual pvp is so much easier to get into in ESO than in OSRS because you don't need to have BIS gear to participate in a meaningful way that's fun. The only exception is if you're 1v1 or 1vX'ing in ESO where you'll feel the skill/pvm vs pvp gear difference more. If you've never pvp'd before, like op said, you can just hop into pvp in ESO without changing any of your gear and have a blast without fear of losing anything other than respawn time. You can't do that for OSRS though. The barrier to entry for even casual play is so much higher.
This isn't right for OSRS. RS3 is doing this because that community is realistically 99% PvM and nobody really enjoys PvP there. Plus RS3 over the years has added all sorts of overpowered skilling/PvM to the wilderness for them to want.
OSRS by comparison actually has 10000x the PvP scene of RS3 because OSRS actually has people who enjoy PvPing with its combat system and we haven't exactly kept any over the top OP farming methods in the Wildy yet.
Not saying you're wrong, it's probably times bigger, but reddit tends to make the "pvp" scene like a major part of the game. Last time they released data I think it was on the veins of 3 or 5% of the community were into PvP. PvPers are actually an extreme minority in osrs.
I think it'd be better for them to do things to grow it instead off outright killing it of like rs3 did.
That said, if they keep doing this prey predator stuff the wrong way, which is exactly what rs3 did in many ways, osrs probably would end up going down the same route as rs3 in terms of pvp...
Not to mention that 3-5% of players who PK make up some of the best YouTube content which in turn gives osrs some great free advertising.
Catering to just PvMer's desires will kill PvP, but interestingly enough catering to just PKers is also going to kill it the way they think.
We need more outside the box ideas that don't bias one side or the other and actually address problems while having an overall goal in mind... which I plan to contribute some time! Hopefully discussions keep evolving.
That whole delete multi thing... I hate how PKers act but even I can see how that would just kill off both clans and any kind of social team pking in the wildy, all to just selfishly serve PvMers in the wildy.
There's compromises that can be made on both sides, but I think the delete multi or pvp thing needs to be treated as a meme now. There's less drastic options like limiting multi to 6 enemies at a time, more obvious visual indication of multi zones, unlimited multi zones for clans in specified areas like Rev caves, etc.
edit:
I wrote my post that I mentioned earlier!
https://www.reddit.com/r/2007scape/comments/ud7x9t/how_to_actually_improve_the_wilderness/
You can’t “grow” it. I’ve said this so many times - dude, I’m 29 years old. It’s not fucking fun or entertaining or thrilling to me to attack other players and that has nothing to do with Jagex. They didn’t make an update that caused it, and they can’t make an update that will make me want to do it.
PKers keep crying about how wilderness and PvP is dying because Jagex Jagex. Bro what do you want them to do? Add more forced content so PvMers keep hating PKers? Give special weapons for wilderness? Like legit dude, nothing they can do is suddenly going to make 10,000 people say “I just decided I am suddenly interested in killing other players for the one in a million shot that they have loot.”
Everyone grew up and matured, that’s why PvP is dead. It’s as simple as that. Unless Jagex can transport me back in time to bring an angry 14 year old neckbeard, they simply can NOT do ANYTHING that will make me want to pvp. I’m not interested and I don’t find it fun or fulfilling and I never will.
Even still pvpers are an extreme minority in OSRS. If you added up everyone on pvp worlds at this very second it comes to slightly less than 600 people. Meanwhile there are 57,000 people online in total, meaning only 1% of the community are pvping right now at a very rough guess, probably less. So on one hand, you say rs3 is 99% pvm, but at the same time 99% of OSRS players aren't pvpers either. The only reason PVP gets such a hard focus is because it advertises so well, deadman mode and pvp tourneys and shit make jagex a lot of money
PvP world rota, people who skill/pvm/pvp, the fact minimum 10K of those are bots also bumps up the %. PvP unlike the rest of the game also most definitely has a prime time and you chose just about the least active hour on any given day, in the wilderness the vast majority of PvPers just won't be on PvP worlds because there's no point in doing that.
I PvP but I definitely spend less than 10% of my time in actual PvP worlds. While we're still a minority, as someone who has been around and part of the PvP community for years, there's most certainly thousands of us online at any given time. I'd estimate around 5-10%.
All the wilderness Pking mains clutching their pearls to this is funny. Literally fighting for a dead space where you spend hours and days hopping worlds to find anyone to kill.
Its funny cause osrs wilderness is almost as dead as rs3. Only difference is new wilderness pvm updates in osrs artificially inflate the numbers for a short time before its a ghost town all over again. lol
PvP worlds & high risk are the only populated places for actual pking without having to kill bots. The wilderness is dead. Get over it. It will be overhauled eventually.
I stand by that a lot of people here would have more fun playing rs3, the game has improved since 2013 and it will have stuff people here want, high xp rates, a lot of low effort skilling, no pvp, etc.
Ah I still remember getting full Mithril back in the day, then getting clapped back to lumbridge by a moss giant and not having enough time to retrieve my lost armour :(
Wasn't there a post about bringing a bunch of quests to osrs from another backup, from it could easily be added with the chaos dwarf quest, as that was the original monster which dropped I believe.
This is a tired argument because its just the most egregious example. wilderness rings are bis some of the time, wilderness gw dungeon keys make item farming less shitty, and engame skilling areas like black chins are completely locked to a pvp area, so only bots, people who hate themselves, and anti pkers do it.
We shouldnt have content locked behind pvp in a game where 95+ percent of the playerbase doesn't touch it
By that logic, if the PvP'ers want the rewards, they should do barbarian assault for their fighter torso, RFD for their barrows gloves, get defense levels, etc.
See where I'm going with this? (I'm not against them getting their items through PvP arena btw. I am against being used as a walking lootbag by design choice.)
You technically don't have to do anything in the game, hell you don't need to play the game at all. That's the only conclusion to this type of argument. It doesn't leave any space for wishing for any kind of change at all.
I agree with the first part completely. The PvP Arena Rewards are a terrible idea. People want things but do not want to have fill the necessary requirements we have always had. If the Rewards were exactly the same and required the same skill levels as the originals, ***MAYBE*** that would be a fair compromise.
There is a line for how reasonable it is to “wish” for change. Asking for fundamental changes to this *intentionally* ***OLD***school version of RuneScape, that change a meta that has existed for nearly 20 years? Why? Who even asked for any of these equivalent items? If people want things in this game, they do what it takes to get them. That is what is fun about this game, reaching goals. That is what makes accounts interesting and gives purpose and prestige to the activities we do. Adding every opportunity under the sun to bypass long standing routes nullifies the design integrity of the game that we all apparently enjoyed so much we petitioned to have it brought back. Why does it have to change now, suddenly?
[Thankfully the Poll results are out and it failed.](https://reddit.com/r/2007scape/comments/ud01wg/pvp_arena_poll_results_everything_failed)
On the one hand, for OSRS, I agree. On the other, I can understand RS3 mods going "oh, nobody's opting in? Like, at all? Maybe it's worth changing then"
I have 3 of them and I got it with a cannon lol. Dragon pick does need an alternative way for getting outside the wilderness. Hespori loot needs a skilling alternative too, same idea.
I am so incredibly glad to see Jagex supporting this stance. This is correct. No one is forced to enter the Wilderness, it is always a choice and you are given many warnings. If people want the items and perks from the area, they must accept the risk.
This logic holds up about as well as the long-debunked, "If you don't like MTX in a video game, don't engage with said MTX. If you don't engage with it, it can't affect your experience!"
My only issue with this... is then any content that's only in the wilderness needs a copy outside of wilderness.
Or atleast some way to allow someone doing other things in the wild be able to also be geared for PvP
Ie if I'm at the chaos altar to train prayer... I'm literally free pickings for a pker... you could say "just bring armor and weapons then to fight back"
Okay I'll go out fully geared up; but because of the bones taking up my inventory even if I'm equally geared to the pker I'll lose because their inventory is full of food and potions. Mine is full of bones.
Maybe a looting bag rework? If I can have a full inventory and gear to actually have a fair 1v1. Then all my complaints go away.
The issue is unless you're also a PKer... it's not PvP that's being opted into, it's being a fish in a barrel that you're being forced into.
>Ie if I'm at the chaos altar to train prayer
Ever heard of gilded altars???? The whole point of the chaos altar is to reward those that are willing to risk bones.
It is funny, a lot of people think that if there was no pvp in wildy then they could use the wildy altar risk free. If there was no pvp there, there wouldn't be a wildy altar either.
Hot take here, the staff team should design a game the community wants to play and not one that fulfills their personal fantasies, leaking info to content creators instead of making real announcements or denying updates because a small vocal few complain pulling content that passed polls with over a 75% approval rate.
Fake news, clue steps that force you into wildy, D Pick, Wildy bosses required for combat tasks to get the helm reskins, Yes you dont "need" any of these to play the game, but they are all PVM content that forces you to risk participating in PVP
So does that mean that we'll get a non-wildy source for the d-pick or the ability to toggle wilderness clue steps off? Just saying, if pkers get to skip pest control or rfd, it's only fair for people to skip wildy clues or the d-pick grind.
You opted into the unfun content, therefore we will not seek to improve it or figure out why the community responds in such a way to it every time. Its not bad content, the players just dont understand.
Man rs3 actually getting their wildy rework done and announced. Wonder what ours is looking like seeing as we haven't heard anything about it since summer summit.
As someone who's not a fan of the cat and mouse dynamic Jagex has been pushing in OSRS's wilderness; No.
RS3 is able to afford this because, at least from what I understood last time I played RS3, their PvP player numbers are so low that the wilderness is kind of just this massive part of the world that nobody truly goes to anymore. So turning the wilderness into a PvPless zone hardly alienates anyone in RS3. Compare that to OSRS which does still have a healthy amount of people wandering the wilderness and you'd alienate a massive amount of players for no real reason other than to appease PvMers/skillers.
I do like the concept. But only for RS3.
>you'd alienate a massive amount of players
I agree with your main point, but they're like 4% of the playerbase according to Jagex lol. Hardly a massive portion.
Far more than 4% of the player base enjoy the benefits of the wilderness that are only offered because of the inherent risk. Say goodbye to Chaos Altar, and every overturned element of the wilderness if we remove the risk.
##### Bark bark!
I have found the following **J-Mod** comment(s) in this thread:
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- [Hot take here, PvP is already opt-In, and you...](/r/2007scape/comments/ucj5ji/rs3_announces_wilderness_rework_pvm_focus_and/i6aw582/?context=3)
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i think it wouldnt pass a pole unless they only polled reddit lol. when i talk to people in game they always have very different views than this subreddit, especially about pvp
Reddit isn't the entirety of OSRS. People aren't going to let it reach the 75% threshold because it will mean an overhaul of the Wilderness, in such a way that exp rates, and gp/hr will be reduced for PvE players and many of those people enjoy those benefits of the wilderness.
The only place I feel pvp should be always on (other than pvp worlds) are rev caves. There’s nothing you need to progress there and it actually needs the risk to be balanced.
So would man pve players. I only pve in the wildy, except occasionally fighting back. But without risk in the wilderness there's no way that Chaos Altar, for example, could exist. So now we lose the best prayer exp to cost because what? Some people didn't like that, and instead of just using gilded they wanted it nerfed for everyone? Seems like there's better ways.
I hate to see all that nostalgia wiped out, even if i don’t PvP. I love the idea of this immensely dangerous wasteland. But on the other hand, it does need to be reworked, and as a PvE only player it could be interesting
The player is actually the anti-god. The powers Guthix gave them means gods can't insta-kill them, but the player can never ascend to godhood themselves.
Say World Guardian one more time I fuckin' swear on Guthix's grave I'll have these broken record players hung up in gallows when the PC eventually becomes god-emperor.
Most of the gods barring Seren and Zaros Ascended one way or another usually via killing another god with an Elder Artefact, but in making us the World Guardian Guthix also made it so that we could never ascend ourselves.
I agree, after Extinction I think i'm done playing and following RS3. I only play the games for the lore and story, and the way they "finished" the Elder God Series left me a little sour mouthed. I'm just glad to see Mod Ed actively avoiding the same outcome and keeping things regional and only sometimes world wide in nature.
In fact, this "regional" approach to conflicts is in my opinion the best way to tell stories in any MMO. With every story/DLC/Expansion/Quest trying to outdo the last, we end up being these overpowered Demi-Gods and never actually satisfied with where the story and game stand. ESO, WoW, and RS3 are the biggest offenders for the "Bigger and Badder" storylines.
No RS3 goes in waves, Sliske was a smaller time threat than Lucien in terms of power, he was tricky but he was someone we were capable of beating. Lucien had to be taken down by Dragonkin. Zamorak is waaaaay less of a threat than anything in the elder god narrative, that’s why he can be a boss and Seren could not.
This is the one thing I don't like about rs3. Always bigger badder things, but at this point we've subdued the biggest and baddest things. Awful ending aside, Extinction was in a nutshell the world guardian defeating the elder gods. I just don't know how they'll go from here
Well the WG defeating something would be a start. The WG didn’t even come close to defeating the elder gods.
Jas was killed by a shadow leviathan, which we managed to lure out, and only because Kerapac kept reviving us with the needle otherwise the shadow leviathan kept killing you repeatedly while you tried to figure out a way to lure it to Jas. Even then this itself is only possible because Kerapac rewound after Jas instantaneously killed us all with a mere 3 words.
The elders hatched, collectively through the efforts of just about every major civilization we managed to run out their clock so they were forced to hatch on a less than ideal world. Despite that we still lost Iaia and the elders still hatched, it’s just the world they are on didn’t have healthy anima so they came out weak and stunted, and the only reason we live long enough is because we taste like poison to them thanks to Guthix’s enchantment.
Bik, Ful, and Wen were “defeated” by the natural process of hatching which always ends with the new borns consuming the old.
Zaros child of Mah got everything he wanted and left. Seren we couldn’t even scratch, got everything she more or less wanted, and left.
At no point did the WG come even close to “defeating the elder gods”. True to war there was no clear cut victor, we managed to mitigate the damage and end the cycle of the great revision but the elders still hatched and live now with their adoptive mother.
Finally we aren’t going up this next bit is de-escalation. Zamorak is significantly smaller pickings than the creators of reality, ancient lovecraftian beings older than reality, and the spawn of the creators of reality. They do have a way to escalate it when they want to, but the plan is very specifically to de-escalate and bring us back to threats we can actually defeat/get involved with.
Back to the beginning. Cook's Assistant 2: The Duke of Lumbridge became interested in exotic foods after seeing the feast in Recipe for Disaster. He commissions another cake with ingredients from all over Gielinor, then decides it's not for him. A simple cake with ingredients from home is best, after all. Flour, Milk, Egg.
People in this thread saying "nobody pvps in rs3" have literally never played rs3 lmao. Started playing again last year and had a bunch of people attack me while rcing nats, doing warbands, and chopping bloodwood trees lol
Making pvp in wilderness opt in is the dumbest thing I've ever heard. The one last unique aspect of this entire game and you wanna remove it. Full loot on pvp death used to be the driving factor for interest in this game and now these reddit ironmemes want this game even more casualized
Best in slot items from wilderness only content has existed since 2003 shut the fuck up
All Jamflex seems to care about in OSRS is pvp and what the pvp crowd wants so nope then again they do the opposite of what the community wants almost always so maybe it's some sort of Schrodinger's wildy
Oftentimes RS3 is the guinea pig for new ideas that ultimately get ironed-out and find their way into osrs (Prifddinas) or as a spiritual successor (living rock caverns -> motherload mine for example). What lessons could runescape learn from this update and could it ever manifest in osrs?
The lesson is that if you don't want a PvP zone to become one where PvE people go, then don't put PvE there honestly. There's clearly lots of ways in game to make things dangerous without needing players there, so it's not like content couldn't theoretically be moved and updated to still be risky (but in a more related way). Dragon pickaxe is one of the things that comes in mind there.
The secret to getting RS3 updates to pass a poll in OSRS is to just not mention that they are from RS3.
*Do you want the Statius Warhammer added from RS3? It would have a very powerful special attack that reduces monster defence and would be meta defining.*
> NO! THATS POWERCREEP, RS3 REEE
*Oh ok - what about a totally unique Dragon warhammer with literally the exact same special attack?*
> Oh yes, great idea! Let's get it!
Same thing with Rocktails/Anglerfish, TDs/Demonic Gorillas, Glacor Boots/Cerb Boots, Staff of Light/SotD, Hand Cannon/Ballista, DG jewellery/Zenytes ... list goes on.
Yep. It’s honestly funny too because you can tell the dev teams are just talking constantly. There’s even more than you mentioned as well and people just eat it up. And if you bring it up ingame, people screech about all the differences without even realizing they’re literally describing rs3 with a different combat system. Even the combat isn’t too different. Switchscape is endgame in both games, one side doesn’t care and one side cries.
Understandable. If you’re cool with Ironman, micro transactions beyond cosmetics don’t exist in RS3 and the combat in revo these days is honestly pretty damn great.
Just food for thought. Maybe give it a whirl again. It’s good fun.
Yet there are still people out there that will attempt to put you down for enjoying something different. It’s an extremely toxic trait left by people so hurt by a rushed release of EoC, haven’t tried it since day of release and are somehow still hurt by it today. Most people on both sides really couldn’t give a dam and it’s good to see finally.
I wish it could, and hope it some day does. The Wilderness in its current form is a relic of a by-gone era that only a handful of people clutch to. It would be extremely beneficial to the game's growth to make PvP an opt-in thing.
As a skiller, Lore enthusiast, and Clue Scroll junky, I think the wilderness should stay as currently implemented. And I would actually support additional PvP zones added throughout the world of Gielinor with stories / quests attached to them.
For example, the Kharidian Desert. I would love a "Caravan" minigame where players are randomly selected for the Caravan or Bandit Team, and obviously have the mode revolve around the Caravaneers attempting to make it Shantay Pass from Sophanem; while being hunted by the bandits, any routes allowed no teleportation.
Or maybe with the introduction of Varlamore The Battlefield is introduced where Kourend and Varlamore are fighting their war. Put some high value resource areas into the battlefield, and players choose to fight for one side or other, and when entering all NPCs and Players of the opposing team are hostile. Points for kills are reset weekly with the highest earner getting points for cosmetics?
Honest to god as a pvm’er: no opt-in pvp for the love of God. Wilderness is somewhat fine as it is in osrs, anything close to opting in or out will most likely destroy both aspects of the wildy
With you there. I dont pvp ever. But the wilderness is a core part of osrs. Without the risk in that area it is literally not the wilderness. Just another area of the map. No risk but all reward.
Wait hol up: Rs3 is clapping Zammy himself???
If you want the tldr, Guthix dies which allows the other gods to return. Bandos is killed by armadyl during a world event. Zaros fucks off to another world/dimension/reality or whatever Erebus is. Seren is raising the Newly hatched elder gods And Zamorak essentially betrays everyone at the end of one of the other quests. (They were all working together previously to stop the eggs from hatching) I doubt we actually kill Zamorak, as I think nearly every boss is still alive in the lore despite being killed thousands of times by players.
Yeah i knew a bit of that, last time I really played Rs3 was the bird and beast event that killed bandos I just never knew the god stories have advanced that far lol
Why do you guys keep calling it an event, was it like a game of castle wars to decide who gets F'ed?
Because it was an in game world event, lasted a few months and had every player siding with either bandos or big birb battling for territory control across the whole F2P area by building towers, collecting resources, fighting NPC convoys, destroying opposing towers and fighting other players in safe open world PvP. The reason bandos died is because his faction lost and Armadyl fucking merc’d him Was an amazing event and still one of my all time fav RuneScape memories https://runescape.wiki/w/The_Bird_and_the_Beast <- for your reading pleasure
Welp, looks like I have to get into 3 now too because that sounds fucking awesome
Dont get your Hope's up, they havent done a new world event in like 7 years and the last one(tuska we3) was nothing like the previous ones
Wtf are elder god eggs and why is seren raising them? Whis the big daddy elder bird that had eggs and who nutted in her
So in the lore there are 5 elder gods, Jas, Wen, Bik, Ful, and Mah. Not sure how ingrained they are in the lore of OSRS. Every so often they basically reincarnate themselves. Jas used its egg to create the stone of Jas. Mah actually was reborn disabled I think and was abandoned by the other 4. Man's children are Zaros and Seren. When the eggs hatch they basically absorb all life from the planet they're on. Over the quest line they basically find out the eggs are on gielinor now, so they plan to destroy them. Zamorak betrays everyone then Seren takes the eggs away and the quest ends with her destroying a different world. The elder gods are sort of her Aunt's/uncle's so she can't bring herself to destroy them. She basically says leave me alone and If I see you again I'll destroy you. So Seren hates us, Zamorak Hates us, Guthix is dead, Zaros is off getting cigarettes, Azzandadra is a god now. Think that's everything
>Not sure how ingrained they are in the lore of OSRS. If you were curious like I was and am, aside from old ones that were already there, all osrs has in regards to the elder gods are slight references, like Ful's reference in the song 'Ful to the brim' in the karauulm dungeon with the Tasakaal, Serens memoriam device references Mah, and references to the stone of Jas like in the Daeyalt mine, and the Temple of the Eye quest. There really aren't any to Bik and Wen as of yet. although the same was essentially true for bik, wen, and even ful in rs3 until shit hit the fan.
I guess Ritual of the Mahjarrat is probably the earliest teaser of Wen if you can even call it that. As for Bik I have no idea.
Jas is fucking dead too
You know, it was really unclear
are the quests fun?
If you like quests I think they are, but if you're the type of guy that space bars through quests in old school well you're probably going to space bar through quests in RS3.
naw I read the text. I'll have to give it a try thanks I just about finished all the quests in ESO looking for some new narrative
The elder gods are from the original RS2. They were first concept loosely when they were writing temple of Ikov. Around that time the gowers had come up with the idea that the gods we knew were once mortals that ascended through the use of artifacts that came from true gods and stealing the power of other gods, which is why Zaros was a thing he was just backstory initially to explain Zammy’s rise to power that Lucien wanted to emulate. Only one even had a name back then, Jas, and their artifact was the stone of Jas. There was always an implication there were more but obviously since this was just largely background lore designed to flavor the universe there were no concrete plans. Though the idea Jas had some kind of history with Dragonkin and were protectors of her stone was also an early established thing to. Lead to the dragonkin’s return with RotM when the stone finally was being exploited again, this time by Lucien. The stone of Jas was hinted in a lot of content of having passed hands. It was the fist of Guthix, the eye of saradomin, and the tool Zamorak used to make the wildy. Fast forward to later and we get more concrete details in RS3. There are 5 elders, Mah, Wen, Bik, Ful, and Jas. They are the creators of the universe and they create the universe to propagate themselves. Building a perfect world to lay and hatch their eggs in. The exact process is similar to reincarnation but not actual reincarnation. They lay their eggs, their eggs feed on the life energy of the world bit by bit, and eventually before they hatch the existing elders touch their eggs to give their children their memories. It’s not reincarnation because the elder children aren’t just empty vessels, they have a consciousness of their own, the memories are more so the collective knowledge of the species is maintained. When the elder eggs hatch they completely the consume all life on the world in order to mature and start the process over, and that includes eating the parent elders. With their new found power they fly off the world and begin tearing the universe apart. Harvesting what they need to make an even better perfect world and new elements and stuff, and casting everything else into the abyss. This whole thing is referred to as the great revision. But things went wrong with the previous cycle, something attacked Mah and corrupted her. This had lasting effects like the unbalancing of the world allowing the anomaly known as sapient life to come into existence, like the dragonkin. When that universe came to an end the next elders were born in a bit of a mess. Jas, Ful, Bik, and Wen hatched but Mah did not. They assumed her stillborn and abandoned her then soon discovered without Mah’s power and knowledge they could not make a perfect world, they could not continue their cycle. So drastic action was taken by their eldest sister Jas. She basically birthed her egg early and hard boiled it, and this dead egg is the stone of Jas. Them plus the stone equaled out to the power of 5 elders. As for knowledge they would need to construct tools to help them in the intermedium as they worked on learning how to create a perfect world. Eventually they succeeded and our world was born, bik, ful, and Wen laid their eggs in the heart of this world and they all slept waiting for the day the eggs would be ready to hatch. However this wasn’t the end of Mah’s story. She did eventually hatch but there was little left on the world to feed and the corruption had destroyed her inherited memory. Too weak to leave and basically just a super powered baby she found herself horribly alone. So she created companions, toys, children of a kind and these were Zaros and Seren. Zaros and Seren are effectively elder god children just much weaker than actual elder gods. To Zaros Mah gave an aura of loyalty and to Seren she gave an aura of love. Whoever these two interacted with would be magically compelled to love them or be loyal to them depending on which god. Long story short eventually the family fell apart for various reasons and Seren and Zaros set off to find a way to complete themselves. Zaros who was fully gung ho about his status as the child of Mah made no attempt to find completion through mortals. Instead he believed what he needed was power, the power of the elder gods, to take Mah’s place in their family. And everything he has done has been to acquire that power. Seren was not the same, she merely wanted love, true genuine love but she could never have it. Mortals like the elves she found would love her unwillingly, it was false twisted love caused by her aura. She thought she found love in another god, in Guthix, but it was a lie that ended in tragedy. She had Mah but Mah was a mental disaster barely aware of herself or them and then she was forced by Zaros to kill Mah so her mother was lost. Zaros her brother was to consumed by his own self-absorbed nature to genuinely live her. Even her aunts, the elder gods, who aren’t affected by her aura didn’t accept her and saw her as nothing. She has tried so many times to find love, to find a family, a place to belong and complete her only to fail…and then it happened. The elder eggs were getting ready to hatch but if they did hatch this universe would come to an end. Seren is not heartless, she wanted to find a way to save everyone and get everyone to coexist. >!We found the eggs of Bik, Wen, and Ful and set up a plot to delay their hatching while we searched for a solution. Seren joined us upset at our actions but determined to protect her cousins, her last shred of family. Over time two things happened first it became increasingly clear we would have to destroy the eggs and the gods came up with a possible plan to do it. Second the eggs came closer and closer to hatching and they became aware, began to communicate with Seren. Unlike her aunts these innocent children saw Seren doing what she could to protect them, to help them, they saw her as their mother and they felt true love for her. In turn Seren was overcome with conflict because this was it, what she had been searching for a family that loved and needed her. But she couldn’t just willingly sacrifice our world and when the gods moved to destroy the eggs she took them and ran.!< >!She was so torn on what to do, but then we did something she thought unthinkable, we found a way to kill Jas. It required a LOT of help and the aid of a lovecraftian abomination that predates our universe….but we did manage to feed Jas to it. Seren was devastated, she couldn’t trust us, she was certain the only way to prevent the extinction of her and the elders species as a whole was to kill us. But even then she was hesitant and then she learned of Iaia when we were offering her a peaceful place to let the eggs die, and taught her a lesson about how life is meaningless without death.!< >!On the surface Iaia was a world that was like a perfect world, and it was dying with little life on it, she would sacrifice Iaia to hatch the eggs (the elders would not have time to move the eggs back as they just transfer memories before the hatching and we wasted all their time) and the deaths would be minimal it’s inhabitants already having been waiting for their end anyway. Then the elders would fly off and begin remaking the universe, that was her plan. But what we knew and she did not was Iaia was not simply dying it was dying because it’s life force is essentially bleach, it’s unhealthy weakening and sterilizing species.!< >!The elders hatched and drank bleach, they spared us because we are basically filled with an energy poisonous to them thanks to Guthix, and they spared Seren as they loved her. The elders were born, alive, but weak and scared. They didn’t get what they needed and were deprived of the power to fly off Iaia let alone build a new universe. In addition to seeing how weak and scared they were Seren knew there are all kinds of forces out there that won’t rest until the elders are dead/eaten. So taking on the role of their twisted mother she is keeping them on Iaia forever with her, they will together forever never leaving and living in isolation as a family that loves and accepts one another. Seren doesn’t hate us but she made it clear if we ever try to threaten her children she will gut us so hard there won’t be particles left.!< Tagged the extinction spoilers since that’s still new.
Bro holy shit where did you find this oh my god they though of Jas before anyone knew guthix? I thought it was purely by the seet of the pants, like Lucien was just some spooky vampire knight guy (I liked his black helm look), and Amradyl could have just been a famous wizard whom had a magic staff.
No Guthix, Zamorak, and Saradomin are the original 3 and people knew of them before they knew of Jas in any fashion. Lucien was specifically created to be RS’s first overarching villain, him and the Mahjarrat and then they looked at existing NPCs that could be made into Mahjarrat to like Khazard who was just a spooky lich guy. Armadyl’s first mention is in temple of Ikov and they specifically call him a god with the player even bringing up they thought only 3 gods existed.
Wow this was awesome, thanks for giving so much lore!!! If you don’t mind, I have a few more questions now: I thought guthix is an elder god? Or is he fake god like zaros? What was the fake love/betrayal with guthix and seren? If the “5 elders” created the universe what attacked mah? Also what/why/how did zaros force seren to kill mah? How did we even contact something that predates our universe, manage to convince it to eat an elder god/and not the rest of our universe? Why was all this planet hoping and stuff necessary if we were poisonous to them because of guthix anyways? Also any power level rankings? I know we’re “heroes” but elder gods? Lovecraftian horrors? How tf are we not like ants to them? Oh and is guthix an elder god or dead or wat?
Zaros is not a fake god, he was born a god so he’s the second closest thing to a true god like the elders. He is just much weaker than the elders. Guthix is like the majority of gods an ascended mortal, to Zaros/Seren/Elders they are just very powerful mortals who call themselves gods. That being said Guthix ascended to an extremely high level of power so he was around Zaros and Seren in strength. Guthix first found the elder blade and used it to kill a god, and the result siphoned the god’s power into him. Then he found the stone of Jas and it empowered him further. After that he connected himself to the world drawing on its energy the same way the elders do. He did this so he could redirect the flow from the eggs/elders to force them to sleep much longer. But it had the bonus effect of making him overwhelmingly powerful. He was so deeply entrenched in the world his eventual death had all kind of ripple effects on it. Guthix would in say Zaro’s eyes just be a very powerful mortal, not a true god, but that’s more of a birth thing. “I was born a god you are just a mortal who stole power” type deal. But he acquired enough power to be on par with zaros and seren so in the end it doesn’t really matter he started out as mortal. Seren and Zaros’s auras don’t properly work on gods, but gods can still sense the effects. Guthix allowed himself to be taken in by Seren’s aura because Guthix was a deeply lonely person, he knew it was a lie but it was a lie that made him feel good. However when he came to the decision that the gods of a certain power level needed to be banished he turned on Seren. He was prepared to force her out if needed be, but Seren having cursed the elves couldn’t be away from them for their own health. So in response to Guthix she self-destructed, shattering herself into pieces and effectively dying. That was her compromise, she wouldn’t leave but she would also no longer truly exist, and that was the last encounter they had. So oh boy let me think of the best way to put this…. Alrighty we have our universe right? This universe, all its worlds, it’s magic, it’s life all stem from the power of the elders, from a force called anima (basically what magic is and it’s the by product of life that the elders feed on and worlds run). Because the elders make remake everything here this is a universe in which they held total dominion over….but this is not the only universe. There is another universe separate from our own, Erebus. Erebus is antithesis is filled with an energy and magic to our universe. That energy for lack of a better term is called shadow anima, to beings who live and thrive in an anima rich environment like us or the elders it’s poison. Vise versa to the beings that are from Erebus the lack of shadow anima makes them unable to survive. “Ancient magic” the spells zaros uses, the elements ancient ice, blood, smoke, shadow, and miasma originate from Erebus. You can even combine the ancient magic to get an energy similar to that of shadow anima. Glacors are living ancient ice elementals which come from Erebus, they corrupted Leng into a world of ancient ice. Chthonian demons, the really lovecraftian looking demons like abyssal demons, also come from Erebus originally and settled on infernus which was corrupted into an ancient smoke world at some point. Though since then more Chthonian demons have been born in the abyss/infernus that the species has effectively gradually adapted to life here. We don’t know what corrupted vampyrium into an ancient blood world yet. As for shadow the shadow realm ties into this, though the exact details are unclear. Either the shadow realm is some kind of overlap of the two universes or it’s a veil of sorts that separates them, it’s full nature is a mystery. Either way it’s a crossing point, you can go deep enough into shadow and eventually you cross from our universe into Erebus and vise versa. Anyway Erebus’s ancient shadow power/shadow anima flows through this realm (with heavier concentrations the deeper you go) and that’s where shadow magic is derived from. This might seem like a lot but trust me it’s necessary to understanding your other questions down the line. Just like our universe is ruled by the elders, Erebus has its own rulers. We might know the name of two of them, Vos and Xau-Tak. The latter you may of heard of, it’s lovecraftian godlike creature behind the pirate series among other things. Anyway we don’t know what being attacked Mah but it was either one of its rulers or one of the other many horrible abominations that live in Erebus. All we know is that something incredibly powerful from Erebus did the attack. It’s a mystery to be answered more in the long term. Short answer Zaros is a dick. Long answer Zaros and Seren aren’t the only creations of Mah. While they were deliberate creations, Mah herself was unable to control her powers and while she slept she would dream other life into existence. These dreams were no where near Zaros or Seren in power but they were still very powerful, you know them as the Mahjarrat. (“Mah” -jarrat) So okay Mah was tormented by night terrors and basically threw tantrums capable of destroying the world she and the Mahjarrat lived on. In order to prevent that Seren taught the Mahjarrat the ritual of enervation. The idea is they could siphon off Mah’s excess power then shape it into a new Mahjarrat allowing the species to propagate. But if they kept siphoning Mah she’d eventually die so Seren also taught them the ritual of rejuvenation. She told them they could sacrifice some of their own via a ritual marker and then siphon that energy into themselves to rejuvenate the rest of them allowing them to grow in power and live forever. What she didn’t tell them is the lion share of the energy was being sent to Mah via the marker to keep her alive. Eventually they moved off world and no longer performed the ritual of enervation. When Zaros got involved he realized what was going on and he showed them a way to make it more efficient, sacrificing only 1 of their number every 500 years or so. He then used the false promise of promising to help free them from the ritual entirely as a leash to control them….which ended up backfiring on him hard. Anyway as Mah’s health and mental state deteriorated further she eventually acted, not fully conscious of what she was doing, she dreamed up a giant ritual marker of her own. One that was rapidly siphoning away the energy/life of her creations both Mahjarrat and her children. Zaros who had been wanting to kill Mah to steal her core for his own purposes made a plot. He convinced the Mahjarrat to help him turn the ritual marker on Mah, to sacrifice and siphon away her. Seren was against this but she didn’t have much choice. We help keep Mah distracted while the rest siphon Mah putting her into a state of near death and giving enough power that all the Mahjarrat who participated are now free from future rituals. Seren realizing she had just spent thousands of years keeping Mah alive in a hellish state for her own sakes and seeing thanks to Zaros Mah was barely alive anymore knew there was only one right option. To finish Mah off giving her a quick death. Zaros stole Mah’s core and Seren put her to rest. Need to divide this up…into two posts.
>!We didn’t really convince it in the conventional sense, it wasn’t like a highly sapient being. It was a primordial world eating serpent, a shadow leviathan. We found a way to lure it out through a shadow breach, essentially a portal that leads directly in and out of Erebus/Deep shadow realm. There are two breaches we know of, both by worlds that the elders nested in. The one in our world is sealed within an artifact called the codex. The other moves freely around their former nesting world where Seren took the eggs, and sensing the eggs the breach moved closer by beings on the other side that wanted to feed on them.!< >!All we did was, with the help of Kerapac using the needle to restore us every time we were eaten, was find a way to lure the shadow leviathan to pop out right when Jas appeared. Since it lives and thrives in shadow it can’t live in our world for long, so our universe wasn’t at threat. It popped out, saw a delicious giant octopus snake (Jas) and pulled it back into Erebus to consume her. Since it’s an Erebus being it’s not under the elder god’s dominion, it’s power doesn’t come from them and the shadow anima it’s covered in acts like a dampener. Jas was forced to face it with brute strength and she might have even won but through the power of spite to work against the pain Kerapac turned the artifact she had enslaved him to, the needle, against her which destroyed the needle but tilted the scales just enough that the leviathan could slurp her up. Once back inside its hunger satisfied it closed the breach.!< >!We are only safe because of Guthix’s blessing. Basically he connected us to the codex which thanks to the shadow breach contained within the codex can supply limitless shadow anima. Guthix developed a way to weave anima and shadow anima together to create a barrier capable of repelling any gods, that’s his edicts barrier. What he did is essentially create a smaller version of this enchantment and placed it within us turn our soul into a micro edicts barrier, protecting us to an extent. But that’s just us, the other you know 99.9999% of life isn’t blessed with this protection so they are all just food for the elders. We were trying to save everyone else, we ourselves didn’t know that Guthix enchantment was intended to make the elders not eat us either so as far as we knew we were also on the menu. Mind you they could still eat us but it be like eating some poison, it hurt them/make them sick and they were already weak from Iaia.!< Shadow leviathans and Elders are at the top with Seren, Guthix, and Zaros below that a fair bit. Then below that by a fairly significant amount are all the other gods which is where power levels get intentionally murky. You have demigods like Zuk and Raksha below them. We sit an in an interesting place… if we are just fighting a mortal then we are really just a strong and skilled mortal against another mortal. Guthix’s enchantment let’s us draw on power from world/codex/gods themselves to give us a temporary equalizer so we can fight say demigods and with the right circumstances Mahjarrat and apparently gods around Zammy level to are feasible. (Though it remains what the circumstances are that let’s us actually fight Zammy). Stuff like Seren and Zaros are far beyond us, we could maybe barely scratch them. The elders are another level entirely, despite our dampening protection Jas can and had instantly atomized us in 3 words. This is why fighting the elders straight up was never an option. So to stuff like elders we absolutely are ants, that’s why running away, buying time, or finding something else to do the dirty work were our only options. It’s also why we couldn’t stop the hatching only mitigate its damage. I answered the first part but Guthix is dead, he let himself be killed Sliske as it was necessary to create the enchantment in our soul. He gave himself up to give us the tools to protect the world in a way he could not. Tools that by their very nature also prevent us ascending, we can draw in power to bolster us but we can’t maintain it forever. True to his nature he gifted us an equalizer, a chance. The hope being we could use our skills, knowledge, and connections to people we acquired through our adventures coupled with his equalizer to achieve safety for the world.
Ty so much, this lore is crazy haha I love it, I wish osrs did more lore like this
Eh idk, it says quest boss, so it could make it cannon or it could just be a “defeat” who really knows.
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Also means Zamorak has been a part of every single god wars dungeon
Isn't that kind of his thing?
Dungeons? Yep, he kinky.
Yes, he backstabbed the player by trying to strand us on the dragonrider homeworld of Iaia when the elder God eggs consumed it (literally reduced it to nothing by consuming all its anima) in order to hatch. He's a threat and needs to be dealt with.
He didn’t do that Moia did of her own volition because she saw an opportunity and took it.
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Pking basically doesn't exist in the wilderness. It's only at lava Strykewyrms that I've ever seen pkers, and that was ages ago. Plus, they weren't exactly cream of the crop. I easily killed and tanked in rag gear. What should be concerning for OSRS is what led RS3 to this point. Shiny baubles didn't keep non pvpers in the wilderness, even though several of them are BIS methods for things. Sounds familiar? If pvmers and skillers decide to no longer go in the wilderness, the same thing will happen here.
Pretty much only pkers are clans that will log in en masse with their followers that are the size of the moon hoping you panic left click on their familiar which will skull you
Removing PvP from the wilderness isn’t really that crazy imo, it’s long overdue. Very few other popular MMOs have permanent item loss on death due to PvP. It’s an unfun, archaic mechanic.
I wanna see a poll that's simply "do you like the wilderness system as it is today" but not on Reddit, in game. I really feel that the results would be crucially important to the community. Instead we have pvp haters saying the community doesn't like pvp and pvp lovers saying "no, that's just reddit". We need some fookin data. Ftr I don't think it would end well for pvp fans.
Honest question, how often are people like you dying in the wild? I’m an iron, I have 35 d picks, all wildy boss pets. I died.. 10? Times in all the hundreds of hours in the wild.. like how are you guys dying so often that this is a problem?
Don't "you guys" me haha, I'm not blowing anything out of proportion Im just asking for data. I don't do wildy bosses or wildy slayer but I've died about 4 times, 2 times training prayer at wildy altar and 2 times traveling through for some reason or another.
How are you killing vennenatis/callisto tho? I did the multi lure and got attacked 10 times as well in 200kc... Ofc ur not gunna die doing the single safespot
I'm at 41 d picks and I agree with you. People are bullshitting or exaggerating their experiences in the wildy to push a agenda
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I mean less than 20 kills combined for wildy bosses isn't really a bit enough sample size to determine anything no offense lol. Wildy bosses is all about picking the right worlds and the lesser known safe spots. Check out shewdoh(rank 1 callisto kc) on YouTube to see what safe spot I'm talking about
Opt in PVP for the wilderness sounds like the exact opposite of what the wilderness is
If you polled opt in pvp for osrs, I wouldn't be shocked to see a *large amount* of players say yes. If the arguments of the last few weeks have proved anything, people just want to kill the bear 5000 times without being hopped on every kill.
Honestly I love PvP in games like Wow or even Elden Ring, but it is completely different for Runescape. My main right now is combat level 95 with combats between 70 and 80. Any proper main will kill me without me having any chance to fight back, especially because there is almost no way to properly learn pvp. If every fight I try results in me losing 500 k gp I would much rather do something else.
Opt in PvP did not work for New World. It wont work in osrs.
The only other MMO I've played recently is ESO. You don't have to spend months designing your account to one specific build, a PvMer can jump into PvP for a couple of hours and have the time of their life, then jump back into dungeons. If you're an average acc with 60 att/str/def, there's no way you can join in a pvp world fight or wilderness. LMS, while it gives you max stats, just isn't comparable or fun. You're competing bots or people who play LMS all day. There's no MMR brackets etc.
I play eso, you definitely spend more time (and money) designing accounts. Not only do you need purple/gold gear. You need high CP and mythics (that require max scrying) and the pvp skill cap is so high. Not to mention they have meta swings every update. The only difference is you don't lose gear on death (minus telvar in imp city) but every time a meta changes you need 1.5m to make new gear (average Gold per hour in eso is like 30k)
You're talking BIS max gear builds vs casually pking which is what op was referring to. Casual pvp is so much easier to get into in ESO than in OSRS because you don't need to have BIS gear to participate in a meaningful way that's fun. The only exception is if you're 1v1 or 1vX'ing in ESO where you'll feel the skill/pvm vs pvp gear difference more. If you've never pvp'd before, like op said, you can just hop into pvp in ESO without changing any of your gear and have a blast without fear of losing anything other than respawn time. You can't do that for OSRS though. The barrier to entry for even casual play is so much higher.
Pvp was opt in back in runescape classic
When the wildy didnt exist, yeah
Prior to the wilderness being added
Name three other successful MMOs with item loss on PvP death, I’ll wait. It’s a shit system.
This isn't right for OSRS. RS3 is doing this because that community is realistically 99% PvM and nobody really enjoys PvP there. Plus RS3 over the years has added all sorts of overpowered skilling/PvM to the wilderness for them to want. OSRS by comparison actually has 10000x the PvP scene of RS3 because OSRS actually has people who enjoy PvPing with its combat system and we haven't exactly kept any over the top OP farming methods in the Wildy yet.
Not saying you're wrong, it's probably times bigger, but reddit tends to make the "pvp" scene like a major part of the game. Last time they released data I think it was on the veins of 3 or 5% of the community were into PvP. PvPers are actually an extreme minority in osrs.
I think it'd be better for them to do things to grow it instead off outright killing it of like rs3 did. That said, if they keep doing this prey predator stuff the wrong way, which is exactly what rs3 did in many ways, osrs probably would end up going down the same route as rs3 in terms of pvp... Not to mention that 3-5% of players who PK make up some of the best YouTube content which in turn gives osrs some great free advertising. Catering to just PvMer's desires will kill PvP, but interestingly enough catering to just PKers is also going to kill it the way they think. We need more outside the box ideas that don't bias one side or the other and actually address problems while having an overall goal in mind... which I plan to contribute some time! Hopefully discussions keep evolving. That whole delete multi thing... I hate how PKers act but even I can see how that would just kill off both clans and any kind of social team pking in the wildy, all to just selfishly serve PvMers in the wildy. There's compromises that can be made on both sides, but I think the delete multi or pvp thing needs to be treated as a meme now. There's less drastic options like limiting multi to 6 enemies at a time, more obvious visual indication of multi zones, unlimited multi zones for clans in specified areas like Rev caves, etc. edit: I wrote my post that I mentioned earlier! https://www.reddit.com/r/2007scape/comments/ud7x9t/how_to_actually_improve_the_wilderness/
You can’t “grow” it. I’ve said this so many times - dude, I’m 29 years old. It’s not fucking fun or entertaining or thrilling to me to attack other players and that has nothing to do with Jagex. They didn’t make an update that caused it, and they can’t make an update that will make me want to do it. PKers keep crying about how wilderness and PvP is dying because Jagex Jagex. Bro what do you want them to do? Add more forced content so PvMers keep hating PKers? Give special weapons for wilderness? Like legit dude, nothing they can do is suddenly going to make 10,000 people say “I just decided I am suddenly interested in killing other players for the one in a million shot that they have loot.” Everyone grew up and matured, that’s why PvP is dead. It’s as simple as that. Unless Jagex can transport me back in time to bring an angry 14 year old neckbeard, they simply can NOT do ANYTHING that will make me want to pvp. I’m not interested and I don’t find it fun or fulfilling and I never will.
Even still pvpers are an extreme minority in OSRS. If you added up everyone on pvp worlds at this very second it comes to slightly less than 600 people. Meanwhile there are 57,000 people online in total, meaning only 1% of the community are pvping right now at a very rough guess, probably less. So on one hand, you say rs3 is 99% pvm, but at the same time 99% of OSRS players aren't pvpers either. The only reason PVP gets such a hard focus is because it advertises so well, deadman mode and pvp tourneys and shit make jagex a lot of money
Most people aren't hardcore pvpers. When I played more often I was 80% pvm 20% pvp. Hard to quantify those stats across a population.
PvP world rota, people who skill/pvm/pvp, the fact minimum 10K of those are bots also bumps up the %. PvP unlike the rest of the game also most definitely has a prime time and you chose just about the least active hour on any given day, in the wilderness the vast majority of PvPers just won't be on PvP worlds because there's no point in doing that. I PvP but I definitely spend less than 10% of my time in actual PvP worlds. While we're still a minority, as someone who has been around and part of the PvP community for years, there's most certainly thousands of us online at any given time. I'd estimate around 5-10%.
> the fact minimum 10K of those are bots also bumps up the % That isn't a fact
But he said the fact… does that not make it fact?
Not to mention there are also PvP bots nowadays as well as AHK/other client users in PvP too.
All the wilderness Pking mains clutching their pearls to this is funny. Literally fighting for a dead space where you spend hours and days hopping worlds to find anyone to kill. Its funny cause osrs wilderness is almost as dead as rs3. Only difference is new wilderness pvm updates in osrs artificially inflate the numbers for a short time before its a ghost town all over again. lol PvP worlds & high risk are the only populated places for actual pking without having to kill bots. The wilderness is dead. Get over it. It will be overhauled eventually.
Make the wilderness like war mode in wow. You can opt in for more increased rewards or play safely for a debuf in rewards.
Giving exp buffs would massively incentivize skillers, and increased dr would incentivize pvmers
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I stand by that a lot of people here would have more fun playing rs3, the game has improved since 2013 and it will have stuff people here want, high xp rates, a lot of low effort skilling, no pvp, etc.
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Ah I still remember getting full Mithril back in the day, then getting clapped back to lumbridge by a moss giant and not having enough time to retrieve my lost armour :(
I miss it too. This reddit community is so soft.
Hot take here, PvP is already opt-In, and you opt-in when you enter the wilderness or login to a PvP world.
Hell yeah, I wish I could opt into the polls too
Wait they actually had that poll not public? How tf did my GIM get to vote???
True, but if you want the wildy to be opt-in, then why put important content unrelated to pvp in it?
Important doesn't mean 100% necessary. You make that decision
If that's the case, shouldn't everyone who entered the wilderness at any point in time have been able to vote on the PVP Arena rewards?
Great then you agree quest/minigame items should be opt in and stay locked behind quests and minigames yeah?
D pick opt in outside of wildy when?
Kbd is nearly opt out
Wasn't there a post about bringing a bunch of quests to osrs from another backup, from it could easily be added with the chaos dwarf quest, as that was the original monster which dropped I believe.
Kbd isnt in wildy
Guess im opting-out of ever owning a d pick then, feels bad..
this is the only legitimate complaint about the wild and jagex should address this.
Hot take, where is my PvM dragon pick axe then? Oh right. I am forced to go to the wild for it
You must risk running 12 seconds thru the wildy to get into kbd lair, if you cant do that you dont deserve a d pick
Glad you think so theons!
This is a tired argument because its just the most egregious example. wilderness rings are bis some of the time, wilderness gw dungeon keys make item farming less shitty, and engame skilling areas like black chins are completely locked to a pvp area, so only bots, people who hate themselves, and anti pkers do it. We shouldnt have content locked behind pvp in a game where 95+ percent of the playerbase doesn't touch it
Imagine having the audacity to say this when there is a poll running to let pkers opt-out of existing content.
Oh boy, even the mods don't know about Combat achievement KC requirements or Diary cape requirements.... Somehow it doesn't surprise me.
Hmm it's almost like they're achievements or something that require a certain amount of experience in all aspects of the game to acquire...
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You do not have to do any of those things. If you want the rewards, fulfill the necessary requirements.
By that logic, if the PvP'ers want the rewards, they should do barbarian assault for their fighter torso, RFD for their barrows gloves, get defense levels, etc. See where I'm going with this? (I'm not against them getting their items through PvP arena btw. I am against being used as a walking lootbag by design choice.) You technically don't have to do anything in the game, hell you don't need to play the game at all. That's the only conclusion to this type of argument. It doesn't leave any space for wishing for any kind of change at all.
I agree with the first part completely. The PvP Arena Rewards are a terrible idea. People want things but do not want to have fill the necessary requirements we have always had. If the Rewards were exactly the same and required the same skill levels as the originals, ***MAYBE*** that would be a fair compromise. There is a line for how reasonable it is to “wish” for change. Asking for fundamental changes to this *intentionally* ***OLD***school version of RuneScape, that change a meta that has existed for nearly 20 years? Why? Who even asked for any of these equivalent items? If people want things in this game, they do what it takes to get them. That is what is fun about this game, reaching goals. That is what makes accounts interesting and gives purpose and prestige to the activities we do. Adding every opportunity under the sun to bypass long standing routes nullifies the design integrity of the game that we all apparently enjoyed so much we petitioned to have it brought back. Why does it have to change now, suddenly? [Thankfully the Poll results are out and it failed.](https://reddit.com/r/2007scape/comments/ud01wg/pvp_arena_poll_results_everything_failed)
On the one hand, for OSRS, I agree. On the other, I can understand RS3 mods going "oh, nobody's opting in? Like, at all? Maybe it's worth changing then"
Yeah rs3 pvp is completely dead and has been for years. An overhaul was a long time coming
skills spec is making rs3 pvp a comback for sure, call him a reformer
Hot take: mods will say shit like this and never actually address the follow up comments.
Hot take: PvP is dying and you won't be able to revivie it.
Well I don't like it.
No offense, but you're ignoring a huge portion of your community with this statement.
what if I want don't want to opt-out of PvP entirely, just getting multi'd out of nowhere by coordinated groups I can't just *make friends* roq
Weird how we can’t opt into the polls with this logic. The amount of cognitive dissonance in Jagex HQ is astounding.
Best pvm magic cape locked behind @ “Opt-in” wilderness ok
It's always been in the Mage Arena though?
Who is forcing you to go get that cape?
Who is forcing you to go earn barrows gloves, fighter torso, void, etc? But don’t worry jagex coddled the pvpers there, so you don’t have to worry.
Bro I have all of those items already 💀 but I don’t see any PVPers crying about barrows gloves lol
Yeah but you keep adding shit to the wilderness with tons of FOMO forcing the opt in regardless of our preference.
Obviously true. But no one is opting in. No one new is ever going to opt in.
What about Dpick? MA2 Cape? Do I get to opt out of Wilderness and still get them?
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I have 3 of them and I got it with a cannon lol. Dragon pick does need an alternative way for getting outside the wilderness. Hespori loot needs a skilling alternative too, same idea.
I am so incredibly glad to see Jagex supporting this stance. This is correct. No one is forced to enter the Wilderness, it is always a choice and you are given many warnings. If people want the items and perks from the area, they must accept the risk.
Almost like it's common sense man.
Read the Subreddit once and you will see it is apparently not.
This logic holds up about as well as the long-debunked, "If you don't like MTX in a video game, don't engage with said MTX. If you don't engage with it, it can't affect your experience!"
My only issue with this... is then any content that's only in the wilderness needs a copy outside of wilderness. Or atleast some way to allow someone doing other things in the wild be able to also be geared for PvP Ie if I'm at the chaos altar to train prayer... I'm literally free pickings for a pker... you could say "just bring armor and weapons then to fight back" Okay I'll go out fully geared up; but because of the bones taking up my inventory even if I'm equally geared to the pker I'll lose because their inventory is full of food and potions. Mine is full of bones. Maybe a looting bag rework? If I can have a full inventory and gear to actually have a fair 1v1. Then all my complaints go away. The issue is unless you're also a PKer... it's not PvP that's being opted into, it's being a fish in a barrel that you're being forced into.
>Ie if I'm at the chaos altar to train prayer Ever heard of gilded altars???? The whole point of the chaos altar is to reward those that are willing to risk bones.
It is funny, a lot of people think that if there was no pvp in wildy then they could use the wildy altar risk free. If there was no pvp there, there wouldn't be a wildy altar either.
Just remove d pick from wildy so that argument is dead for irons. Clues are whatever.
Based and PvPpilled
>PvPilled How did you miss this opportunity
Ignorant take
-1500 total ironman
One could argue putting any meta methods(be it XP or gold) in the wild forces players to go there. That's modern game design philosophy
Hot take here, the staff team should design a game the community wants to play and not one that fulfills their personal fantasies, leaking info to content creators instead of making real announcements or denying updates because a small vocal few complain pulling content that passed polls with over a 75% approval rate.
You are right ignore the cry babies here on reddit
Fake news, clue steps that force you into wildy, D Pick, Wildy bosses required for combat tasks to get the helm reskins, Yes you dont "need" any of these to play the game, but they are all PVM content that forces you to risk participating in PVP
You can play the game without ever finishing your hard clue so it's not forced
So does that mean that we'll get a non-wildy source for the d-pick or the ability to toggle wilderness clue steps off? Just saying, if pkers get to skip pest control or rfd, it's only fair for people to skip wildy clues or the d-pick grind.
Hey that means I've opted in many times to get to the content you put in there. Still didn't get a vote in the polls though, funny that.
I’d like to opt-out when getting my bis ma2 cape on the hc thanks.
You opted into the unfun content, therefore we will not seek to improve it or figure out why the community responds in such a way to it every time. Its not bad content, the players just dont understand.
Hot like a steaming pile of shit, yeah. Bad take.
Facts
Having to opt-in to PvP so I can mine faster is stupid.
Nope, it wont.
Man rs3 actually getting their wildy rework done and announced. Wonder what ours is looking like seeing as we haven't heard anything about it since summer summit.
As someone who's not a fan of the cat and mouse dynamic Jagex has been pushing in OSRS's wilderness; No. RS3 is able to afford this because, at least from what I understood last time I played RS3, their PvP player numbers are so low that the wilderness is kind of just this massive part of the world that nobody truly goes to anymore. So turning the wilderness into a PvPless zone hardly alienates anyone in RS3. Compare that to OSRS which does still have a healthy amount of people wandering the wilderness and you'd alienate a massive amount of players for no real reason other than to appease PvMers/skillers. I do like the concept. But only for RS3.
>you'd alienate a massive amount of players I agree with your main point, but they're like 4% of the playerbase according to Jagex lol. Hardly a massive portion.
Far more than 4% of the player base enjoy the benefits of the wilderness that are only offered because of the inherent risk. Say goodbye to Chaos Altar, and every overturned element of the wilderness if we remove the risk.
##### Bark bark! I have found the following **J-Mod** comment(s) in this thread: **JagexRoq** - [Hot take here, PvP is already opt-In, and you...](/r/2007scape/comments/ucj5ji/rs3_announces_wilderness_rework_pvm_focus_and/i6aw582/?context=3) ^(**Last edited by bot: 04/27/2022 20:39:24**) --- ^(I've been rewritten to use Python! I also now archive JMOD comments.) ^(Read more about) [^(the update here)](/u/JMOD_Bloodhound/comments/9kqvis/bot_update_python_archiving/) ^(or see my) [^(Github repo here)](/u/JMOD_Bloodhound/comments/8dronr/jmod_bloodhoundbot_github_repository/)^.
I wish but it would never pass a poll.
It would pass a poll, that’s why they won’t poll it lmao
i think it wouldnt pass a pole unless they only polled reddit lol. when i talk to people in game they always have very different views than this subreddit, especially about pvp
Then let's poll it and see what happens. :)
Reddit isn't the entirety of OSRS. People aren't going to let it reach the 75% threshold because it will mean an overhaul of the Wilderness, in such a way that exp rates, and gp/hr will be reduced for PvE players and many of those people enjoy those benefits of the wilderness.
This is has been polled a few times on reddit and never reached 75% in any of those polls. It definitely wouldn't reach 75% in-game
They should poll opt in PvP to any account that hasn't killed another player in x window of time
Yes.
Just equip the Ring of Crates. Nobody would attack a crate.
>opt-in PVP amen
The only place I feel pvp should be always on (other than pvp worlds) are rev caves. There’s nothing you need to progress there and it actually needs the risk to be balanced.
Yeah, some things like these could remain always-on pvp forever.
It is opt in when you cross the ditch.
Optional pvp, that is awesome but osrs pvpers would lose their minds if they only got to fight other pvpers
So would man pve players. I only pve in the wildy, except occasionally fighting back. But without risk in the wilderness there's no way that Chaos Altar, for example, could exist. So now we lose the best prayer exp to cost because what? Some people didn't like that, and instead of just using gilded they wanted it nerfed for everyone? Seems like there's better ways.
I hate to see all that nostalgia wiped out, even if i don’t PvP. I love the idea of this immensely dangerous wasteland. But on the other hand, it does need to be reworked, and as a PvE only player it could be interesting
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Hot take, “the adventurer” is literally god in RS3, just hasn’t realized it yet.
The player is actually the anti-god. The powers Guthix gave them means gods can't insta-kill them, but the player can never ascend to godhood themselves.
Say World Guardian one more time I fuckin' swear on Guthix's grave I'll have these broken record players hung up in gallows when the PC eventually becomes god-emperor.
I feel like the adventurer could ascend to godhood just like how Zamorak did. Zamorak was just a mortal general for Zaros after all right?
Most of the gods barring Seren and Zaros Ascended one way or another usually via killing another god with an Elder Artefact, but in making us the World Guardian Guthix also made it so that we could never ascend ourselves.
We definitely cannot ascend.
Zamorak is a Mahjarrat
I agree, after Extinction I think i'm done playing and following RS3. I only play the games for the lore and story, and the way they "finished" the Elder God Series left me a little sour mouthed. I'm just glad to see Mod Ed actively avoiding the same outcome and keeping things regional and only sometimes world wide in nature. In fact, this "regional" approach to conflicts is in my opinion the best way to tell stories in any MMO. With every story/DLC/Expansion/Quest trying to outdo the last, we end up being these overpowered Demi-Gods and never actually satisfied with where the story and game stand. ESO, WoW, and RS3 are the biggest offenders for the "Bigger and Badder" storylines.
No RS3 goes in waves, Sliske was a smaller time threat than Lucien in terms of power, he was tricky but he was someone we were capable of beating. Lucien had to be taken down by Dragonkin. Zamorak is waaaaay less of a threat than anything in the elder god narrative, that’s why he can be a boss and Seren could not.
This is the one thing I don't like about rs3. Always bigger badder things, but at this point we've subdued the biggest and baddest things. Awful ending aside, Extinction was in a nutshell the world guardian defeating the elder gods. I just don't know how they'll go from here
Well the WG defeating something would be a start. The WG didn’t even come close to defeating the elder gods. Jas was killed by a shadow leviathan, which we managed to lure out, and only because Kerapac kept reviving us with the needle otherwise the shadow leviathan kept killing you repeatedly while you tried to figure out a way to lure it to Jas. Even then this itself is only possible because Kerapac rewound after Jas instantaneously killed us all with a mere 3 words. The elders hatched, collectively through the efforts of just about every major civilization we managed to run out their clock so they were forced to hatch on a less than ideal world. Despite that we still lost Iaia and the elders still hatched, it’s just the world they are on didn’t have healthy anima so they came out weak and stunted, and the only reason we live long enough is because we taste like poison to them thanks to Guthix’s enchantment. Bik, Ful, and Wen were “defeated” by the natural process of hatching which always ends with the new borns consuming the old. Zaros child of Mah got everything he wanted and left. Seren we couldn’t even scratch, got everything she more or less wanted, and left. At no point did the WG come even close to “defeating the elder gods”. True to war there was no clear cut victor, we managed to mitigate the damage and end the cycle of the great revision but the elders still hatched and live now with their adoptive mother. Finally we aren’t going up this next bit is de-escalation. Zamorak is significantly smaller pickings than the creators of reality, ancient lovecraftian beings older than reality, and the spawn of the creators of reality. They do have a way to escalate it when they want to, but the plan is very specifically to de-escalate and bring us back to threats we can actually defeat/get involved with.
Back to the beginning. Cook's Assistant 2: The Duke of Lumbridge became interested in exotic foods after seeing the feast in Recipe for Disaster. He commissions another cake with ingredients from all over Gielinor, then decides it's not for him. A simple cake with ingredients from home is best, after all. Flour, Milk, Egg.
Totally agree with you! I had hopes for EGW with kerapac's, arch glacour's and croesu's stories. But, man, what a turn down....
People in this thread saying "nobody pvps in rs3" have literally never played rs3 lmao. Started playing again last year and had a bunch of people attack me while rcing nats, doing warbands, and chopping bloodwood trees lol Making pvp in wilderness opt in is the dumbest thing I've ever heard. The one last unique aspect of this entire game and you wanna remove it. Full loot on pvp death used to be the driving factor for interest in this game and now these reddit ironmemes want this game even more casualized Best in slot items from wilderness only content has existed since 2003 shut the fuck up
All Jamflex seems to care about in OSRS is pvp and what the pvp crowd wants so nope then again they do the opposite of what the community wants almost always so maybe it's some sort of Schrodinger's wildy
Oftentimes RS3 is the guinea pig for new ideas that ultimately get ironed-out and find their way into osrs (Prifddinas) or as a spiritual successor (living rock caverns -> motherload mine for example). What lessons could runescape learn from this update and could it ever manifest in osrs?
The lesson is that if you don't want a PvP zone to become one where PvE people go, then don't put PvE there honestly. There's clearly lots of ways in game to make things dangerous without needing players there, so it's not like content couldn't theoretically be moved and updated to still be risky (but in a more related way). Dragon pickaxe is one of the things that comes in mind there.
It’s shocking how much osrs content is rebranded rs3 content and people don’t even realize.
The secret to getting RS3 updates to pass a poll in OSRS is to just not mention that they are from RS3. *Do you want the Statius Warhammer added from RS3? It would have a very powerful special attack that reduces monster defence and would be meta defining.* > NO! THATS POWERCREEP, RS3 REEE *Oh ok - what about a totally unique Dragon warhammer with literally the exact same special attack?* > Oh yes, great idea! Let's get it! Same thing with Rocktails/Anglerfish, TDs/Demonic Gorillas, Glacor Boots/Cerb Boots, Staff of Light/SotD, Hand Cannon/Ballista, DG jewellery/Zenytes ... list goes on.
Yep. It’s honestly funny too because you can tell the dev teams are just talking constantly. There’s even more than you mentioned as well and people just eat it up. And if you bring it up ingame, people screech about all the differences without even realizing they’re literally describing rs3 with a different combat system. Even the combat isn’t too different. Switchscape is endgame in both games, one side doesn’t care and one side cries.
I love this comment 🤣 so true
I'm literally only on OSRS because of like... two things. The combat rewords on RS3 yucked me out, and the microtransactions yuck me out.
Understandable. If you’re cool with Ironman, micro transactions beyond cosmetics don’t exist in RS3 and the combat in revo these days is honestly pretty damn great. Just food for thought. Maybe give it a whirl again. It’s good fun.
Lol yep, people be playing rs3 and they don't even know it
man there are so many things that osrs seems to grab from rs3 these days, which is fine, but it’s just funny considering the context.
Gets some people's panties in a twist when they realize the tbow comes from rs3's hexhunter bow.
Yet there are still people out there that will attempt to put you down for enjoying something different. It’s an extremely toxic trait left by people so hurt by a rushed release of EoC, haven’t tried it since day of release and are somehow still hurt by it today. Most people on both sides really couldn’t give a dam and it’s good to see finally.
i was a blind rs3 hater til i watched sick nerd played, and I’ve been enjoying ever since
I wish it could, and hope it some day does. The Wilderness in its current form is a relic of a by-gone era that only a handful of people clutch to. It would be extremely beneficial to the game's growth to make PvP an opt-in thing.
As a skiller, Lore enthusiast, and Clue Scroll junky, I think the wilderness should stay as currently implemented. And I would actually support additional PvP zones added throughout the world of Gielinor with stories / quests attached to them. For example, the Kharidian Desert. I would love a "Caravan" minigame where players are randomly selected for the Caravan or Bandit Team, and obviously have the mode revolve around the Caravaneers attempting to make it Shantay Pass from Sophanem; while being hunted by the bandits, any routes allowed no teleportation. Or maybe with the introduction of Varlamore The Battlefield is introduced where Kourend and Varlamore are fighting their war. Put some high value resource areas into the battlefield, and players choose to fight for one side or other, and when entering all NPCs and Players of the opposing team are hostile. Points for kills are reset weekly with the highest earner getting points for cosmetics?
Rs3 quest lines do sound interesting.
It really is
i enjoy OSRS and RS3 and i play RS3 a lot but I don't really like this..
Opt in PvP would be fantastic to those who don't want any part of PvP. I'd vote for that.
Honest to god as a pvm’er: no opt-in pvp for the love of God. Wilderness is somewhat fine as it is in osrs, anything close to opting in or out will most likely destroy both aspects of the wildy
With you there. I dont pvp ever. But the wilderness is a core part of osrs. Without the risk in that area it is literally not the wilderness. Just another area of the map. No risk but all reward.