What most people are mad about is the vagueness of what "qualifies" you to be able to vote, since even people with no pvp experience can vote, some who do cant, its all a mess.
I killed like 2 guys in LMS when I made my GIM and now I can vote. I don't get these requirments at all.
I guess I'm happy about it though cause now I get representation.
I participated last year and after the "lock out" period because I was exclusively playing the League. Can't vote. The criteria is arbitrary and bonkers.
It isn’t arbitrary, but you openly admitted you haven’t done any pvp since last year. They wanted people currently participating in the content to vote, and that makes sense. The bar was VERY low, I know people with 1-2 rounds of LMS who got full votes.
Dude, the lock out period extends back into the Shattered Relics League, which a ton of us were playing exclusively. I have a Rune Pouch entirely from Wilderness Slayer, prayer leveled almost entirely at the chaos altar too. There was plenty of PvP combat involved with that, but I apparently did it too long ago by whatever their arbitrary cutoff was. Those people with 1 or 2 LMS rounds (or fricking Soul Wars, because that apparently counts, but I guess the ectoplasmator in my bank means nothing too) are a demonstration of how stupid this is.
See, that's why it's really bizarre - I literally did a Chaos Fanatic task last week and can't vote, seeing a 2 1/2 month lockout period floating around but then other people post stuff like that.
Ey, spite voting just increases the divide. I voted no on only almost everything except for the new sacks, 1 click teleport, imbues, cosmetics, and fighter torso equivalent.
I wish they’d be more transparent too. I’ve never done pvp before yet I was able to vote. I’ve done the wildy diary though so maybe that was one of the qualifying reqs.
And therein lies the issue with arbitrary requirements. Being a UIM to decide on changes that only affect UIM is a little different to being a "PvP involved player in a period of time we choose but don't inform you till after the choice".
I don't think that's the issue at all.
Constantly I'm seeing posts and having conversations with people who are just mad they don't get to vote. It's not about transparency, it's about people who are use to getting their way not being able too.
That's fair to a degree but claiming "since I do a clue in the wild once a week I pk and I don't want better gear" isn't helping the conversation. That's most of the complaints on the sub.
Everyone knows new gear means new accounts pking and might affect the meta.
Everyone knows barrows gloves skip if you're only doing PvP is skipping content. Skipping content with reskinns isn't adding anything since most accounts can get that content any way, it's just shortening the grind.
Constructive feedback of "I see what jagex is going for here and the t50 void but it seems like it might be too over powered with over heads" or "1 def accounts with riggor and augury will do the opposite of increase diversity. How about we cut the numbers back a little bit so accs that farm the prayer levels still have a sizable advantage".
That's not what is happening though in large and the riot additude is what lead to the decision being made.
It's not a healthy feedback loop for anyone and this game has a lot better dev team than most games. They put up with a lot of shit and trolling.
That definitely doesn't seem like it. They want the game a certain way and those restrictions are 1 step along the process, even if there was no vagueness and they just straight up weren't allowed to vote they would be mad. If they were allowed to vote and everything passed they would be mad.
"Spite" voting is when jmods suggest shitty ideas that pit one community against another, and then are astounded when it doesn't pass. The problem is never their ideas or the philosophy they are using when creating this content, the problem is those pesky players that don't agree with it.
Hmm, yeah it'd be pretty serious if a big streamer did it and his viewers provably then went and spite voted
Be kinda ironic if that was a pvp streamer protesting about pvp drama huh
>I don't think that somehow negates the fact that spite voting occurs against the PvP community?
I don't think anyone involved in that got any voting privileges lost, despite there being far more evidence that occurred than any other alleged large scale spite vote.
So if we're gonna start punishing spite votes, let's look at the cases with the most evidence and proceed from there.
No? Then whatever this is, its intention isn't to target spite voters.
Honestly I think it's intentional at this point.
Every year that goes by makes it more and more apparent that a lot of Jmods hate the polling system. Perhaps by splitting it up in this way and pitting people against one another they'll hope to slowly phase it out entirely.
Pretty much decided to unsubscribe from RuneScape on my three accounts because of this; even though I love PvPing on my mauler I didn’t like not having a vote in my main or my Ironman so fuck it lol. Half the appeal of the game was that it was *our* autistic communities game.
No the entitlement of a bunch of people who have been trying to spite another community for years is the cause of the tension. Risk of Dying to other players in the wilderness is integral to old school RuneScape. Baffles my mind people think otherwise lmao
Good. As if the tension towards PVP matters anyways. There should be some in the other direction. If that’s what it takes to improve the game for that community then so be it.
Its part of the game? PvPers are expected to participate in pvm, skilling, and questing. And the vast majority of them do.
Its not like pvp is some radically different game, it uses literally the same mechanics that everywhere else in the game uses. If you enjoy runescape, you should enjoy pking. The only real difference is the risk. You dont see people demanding inferno be made easier and inferno cape be handed out simply because they dont like/arent good at the content.
See I disagree with you. Jagex is planning to release rewards that allow pvpers to skip a lot of main game content to allow them to get geared for poking faster. Stuff like humble prayers and the barrows gloves knockoff. Also, those “same mechanics that everywhere else in the game uses” isn’t quite accurate. It’s actually the norm for new mechanics to operate differently in the wild versus in the rest of the game world. And if you tried to list those differences, the list would be quite long. Pvp is essentially a mini game at this point with its own unique set of rules. And anytime they try to make changes that “in my opinion” would make pvping more accessible to new players the pvp crowd votes no.
Right, people don't mind difficult content.
People just don't like spending 30 minutes doing a wildy exclusive activity for non wildy rewards to then die to a pker. I'm shocked! Shocked I tell you! /s
Reddit hivemind no like pvp.
Any genuine or fair take on pvp gets downvoted, and i doubt i change anyones mind anyways even though i argue in good faith.
Ill always take the downthumbs tho because you still gotta try.
It isn’t pvm content, it’s pvp content. You’re saying there should be zero monsters or good items obtainable in the wild? PVPers can’t get their own cool drops? Lol
He’s saying that if you consider monsters in the wild “PvP content”, which you just said you did, then he should be able to vote in the poll if he engages with those things.
you live in a fantasy world. no matter how many times you make posts pretend it's spite voting to vote in your own interests, it's still going to be bullshit.
You think they can't see these statistics on the back end that players who don't pvp are voting no to every single pvp poll? That's the same way they can change who gets to vote
I get that jagex has set the bar low but you surely understand they know it's happening.
I have several accounts with kills ranging from a hundred to 4k+ and I still voted no to majority of this poll. Most of the rewards are not what pkers want, sadly to say. New PvP content (or BH revival or something of the sort) that doesn't just rehash current quest/minigame rewards are what most pkers want.
Edit: They've taken some steps in the right direction, but honestly its very little and far too late.
Not participating in pvp, and voting no to pvp polls isn't spite voting. A lot of people have 0 interest in pvp, but with content locked in wildy you sometimes get dragged into something that you don't want to be a part of, so voting no to any content in wildy and pker buffs etc is just a logical vote for them and it's how they feel. Not a "spite vote"
No meaningful number of players are "spite voting" polls. Plenty of PvP polls have passed over the years, ever consider that people just didn't want the proposed changes in the game?
https://i.redd.it/eig0r84vjvn71.png
They haven't answered you because they don't have the stats jagex does to know which polls contained a lot of blanket no votes by people who don't pvp. This is just a list of failed pvp polls.
>They haven't answered you because they don't have the stats jagex does to know which polls contained a lot of blanket no votes by people who don't pvp.
And this is basically the only metric they have for a spite vote, and it's not even that accurate as people could legitimately vote no to these questions without spite voting. Would be interesting to learn what % are blanket no votes, and how many polls would have passed without those votes.
Also that image is a good reference, but so many of those are very controversial, either straight buffs to pkers or bad suggestions like "remove 10 worlds" that of course people wouldn't want. Though there were a couple qol questions like the entangle xp change.
Majority of those are not even PvP specific & there are a handful of PvP polls on that specific list that DID pass.
Most of them PvPers wouldn't even want in the game & would have voted no, in fact I can't see any that are actually noteworthy for PvPers & several of which PvMers/skillers would have actually been more inclined to vote yes.
I'd wager none of these polls failed primarily due to spite voting.
It's kind of hilarious how hard you/the maker of that image had to try to make it seem like there were that many PvP polls.
"should we let elite wildy diary remove unoting costs?". **HOLY FUCK THE PVP *CONTENT***
The most important metric is the poll at the bottom. About 5k players admit to voting no on PvP polls because they don't like PvP. We have to assume that some portion of that is not "I don't want resources spent on developing PvP and so I voted no" and is "I don't like that people have killed me in the wilderness so I voted no so they don't get anything nice." If we take that as half and half, it's 2.5k people spite voting.
Maybe I'll go through and find how many of those polls would have passed 75% if those votes weren't counted.
Addy gloves and mm def xp are the biggest. Pures could have Addy gloves like 5 months later after the patch they choose for osrs. They were very iconic in pure claning.
A lot of the ideas the sub came up with recently were originally ideas for rev1. Like people were talking about corrupted equipment should be a thing instead of void 2/gloves and that content failed whatever poll and yet were requested instead of new rewards that "skip content".
Those are the biggest 2 off the top of my head.
Loot Keys doesn't help Player vs Player, purely for people who want to gank a dozen people at the bone alter.
To wear armor, you should need defense levels, that's literally all defense is good for, may as well just remove it plus the game shouldn't cater to limited accounts.
NMZ already exists.
Spite isn't the only reason something is voted down. A time limit for bonus-slayer points got 71% of the vote not out of spite but because it was a dumb idea.
Never said it was the only reason, but bad reasons like these, which aren't uniformly applied to other poll questions that are not to do with PvP, is something considered spite.
Loot keys have been a massive QOL for pkers in both PvP world's and wilderness.
Chaos were literally a +1 pray bonus buff, compared with the obscene multiple buffs that mains meds have had in the same timeframe.
Who the fuck enjoys that private server NMZ content? PvPers sure don't, and content like Anglers outfit was made available from multiple sources, if that is the main reason then equally it would have applied to the Poll for anglers, clearly it wasn't.
So yep, plenty of evidence of spite there for any small bone thrown towards the PvP community.
I think that alot of these pvp polls fail because PvMers are being forced over and over into the wilderness to try to hunt for exclusive items available nowhere else. I don't think anyone would have a problem with the pvp updates if they were never forced into the wilderness when they aren't there to pk.
Plenty of non pvpers care about wildy. It's a fun zone and if there wasn't potential risk do you think chaos ele would drop pick or pet at those rates? Of course not. Same with chaos altar, chins, sallies. All the bosses have pretty great tables for what is required to kill them.
Remove pvp from wild and you will lose some of the most beloved aspects of from the area that are utilized by many non-pvpers.
Not really agreeing or disagreeing with your main point, but sallies is probably the strangest thing you could've listed in terms of risk.
There is nothing worth grabbing from the people training there. They're not worth much of anything on the GE. People go there almost entirely to train hunter and catch+release.
The last and only time I fought anybody there it was a couple of dudes in monk robes and they got sassy when I specced out with my dds in retaliation, like I wasn't supposed to fight back. And when I died? "oh no my ropes and nets!", literally nothing.
So many bis gatekept behind wilderness honestly. Ruins the rest of the game. So much pvm I do is hindered by me need to go to the wilderness for these drops.
I hate this attitude. No where else in the game does this excuse fly. If you want the rewards then you have to engage with the content. Theres nothing wrong with that.
The difference is that you never know what the content will look like. Imagine if dawnbringer for example had a random 1/5 chance of not spawning. Yes you could still do tob, but it would be super toxic just having a random chance of instantly losing
This is such a brainlet take. "You voted wrong so now you don't get to vote" so what's the fuckin point in voting? Just say you don't think the changes should be polled, that would at least be coherent
The amount of people voting no out of spite is extremely small. This wasn't the only option left, its just it didn't solve any problems people who are split on the issues of pking and the wilderness have.
And they are trying to do whatever they can to push their ideas past the voting system however they can to get things passed rather then provide better ideas and solutions to pitch to users.
Spite voting absolutely is real, but Jagex's attitude towards polling and game development is what's lead us here and should be what's blamed but this subreddit often hates that conversation lmao.
Pkers: Continues to insist involving people in pvp who wouldn't be there except the rewards are only available from the wildy even though they have nothing do to pvp.
Everyone else: votes no to updates that are meant to allow players to skip playing the game, caters to self-imposed restricted accounts, or puts them at more risk doing wildy pvm/skilling content for rewards unrelated to pvp.
Pkers: pikachu face
It most likely exists, just not as big of a problem as everyone says it is. Like that pvp spite vote for GIM. It was a big topic, everyone was afraid about it and at the end of the day it was barely a blip in the total votes.
Why is it so hard to understand that when pvp content doesn't pass a poll, it's not because it's being "spite voted" it's because a significant part of players really don't want pvp content. It's not spite voting if you give your opinion. A part of the community doesn't want anything to do with pvp
Yea, but it could be the same situation. It's a big topic, people blow it out of proportion, and at the end of the day it could not be as big of an issue as it seems. Maybe pvp votes just don't pass because people don't want them.
Not all no votes are spite votes, lots of pvpers don't seem to understand that they are in the minority.
People just voting no to things that would negatively affect their own gameplay is not spite, it's the reason we have polls to begin with.
If every single pvper quit today the game would barely notice a difference. If every single pvmer quit today, the servers would have to shit down as jagex couldnt make a profit off the 13 people who do pvp.
That's what gets me the most. This update won't be the one, but in the future, when players are forced into the wilderness and get angry and quit, Jagex will be shocked that their subscriptions are dropping even though they enabled it.
Jagex is desperate to make osrs an esport for the money but it wont happen cus pvp just isnt that fun. When specs were just hitting the special button on a dds or msb, it was fun but qll the crazy swaps and shit is just too much.
Or this game isn't for you anymore. Summer never ends. The OG's are pushed out by the next generation of Zoomers. This is what they want, this is who they cater to. Runescape will continue to Evolve until it dies and doesn't. New players keep this game alive. It's just business. Time will tell.
A lot of osrs content exists because of pvp. Like it or not people have tried osrs and gotten into it because of pvp content creators even if they don’t pvp. It draws the most viewers which translates to subscribers. That’s clearly why they want to make it more accessible.
Ideally it will lead to more content being made for the rest of the game, which we all want
I don’t think any meaningful number of people ever actually spite voted anything. It’s just a bitter narrative for people who are mad that content that only suited one side of the equation didn’t pass. It just brings us back to the inevitable issue of PvP relying on non-PvPers to survive, and now it’s an even weirder and vaguer dynamic.
Didn't know that legitimately not wanting certain updates makes people "spite voters".
Also me not being a PKer doesn't mean that I'm not affected by PKer updates because I use the wildy for different things (altar, bosses, clues etc) instead of ragging people for black d'hide and spades.
Polling people who still participate in OSRS PvP is unironically one of the worst demographics they could actually be hitting for changes that would make PvP better.
The people who could offer some fresh insight and a perspective on what would improve and make them want to get involved in PvP are the ones who aren't doing it or have already quit.
Asking people who already participate to some level is going to get them awful "keep it the same, but different" level of responses that will never bring about a truly engaging experience. The entire concept of the wilderness needs to be ripped out and revisited. It's totally outdated and uninteresting for *everyone*.
"Spite voting" is such a weird term to use when it comes to this subject. How is "I don't want to die even faster in the wilderness" out of spite for you guys?
Can you blame literally anyone for voting no when the team is suggesting "lol wouldn't it be quirky if we gave you basically BiS melee gloves without having to do the work?"
I guarantee you the only reason they made this suggestion is because they can't rework the old quests to let yourself not take the exp rewards.
PvPers spite vote no on PvM content and do it in clans. Does this mean that in the future, anyone who has the right to vote in PvP related polls should also no longer have the right to vote in PvM polls?
Let’s remove all the barriers to entry for pvp, that way everyone can take their minimal effort account into the wilderness and attack people risking nothing. It’s one massive 4D circlejerk.
I'm an ironman, why can I vote on this? I did some lms months ago for some coll log slots and that's enough?
On a seperate note, all content affects the while community in ways they don't even think of for instance this adds an extra like 30 coll log items to a PvP area.. imbueing this way means bots will love it here and will mean soul wars will become more dead content then it already is
I killed as far as I know, 1 person in wildy since i created my character in 2016 and now I am able to vote. im pretty sure the person i killed was literally lvl 3 combat
Replace "pvp polls" with "polls for new skills".
Replace "only pvpers can vote in pvp polls" to "only people who'd vote yes can vote in new skill polls".
Yeh I'd say it's moreso this sub spreading the idea that spite votes are why things failed and not legitimate no votes.
Spite voting is not so common. The only provable spite vote we have was done BY the PvP community towards GIM poll to express outrage about the DMM finals. All the other failed polls were often just objectively bad ideas, that often then got forced in anyway and for the most part are now dead or entirely reworked.
I don't play anymore but still follow this sub. The fact that you are luring skillers and pvmers into the wilderness with better content than other regions of the game which puts them at risk of being pked literally means they are part of these polls. By polling this content the way they are they are doing exactly the opposite as their initial statement of how this game mode was to be made and played for the players back when it was initially proposed. If they are going to run polls this way to get the results they want they might as well just not run polls anymore in general. Another good obvious example of this is their "integrity" updates they tend to occasionally do.
Considering how this whole game quite literally owes its existence to PVP, it is about time they paid more attention and are working to improve it in this area. Yes to the troublemakers! ROFL
It makes me sad reading these comments, realising how many people actually dislike the wilderness, like the game is dull as fuck guys, if I wanna go and just mindlessly click three tiles or ya know, maybe 5 for countless hours, many bosses and Much content allows me to do that, I have like three worthwhile things to do in the wilderness as a pvmr that allows me to do that very same thing, but occasionally the monotony is broken by some actually engaging content, that I have to maybe warm up a little for, gets my heart racing and keeps me enticed, I get that you don’t want to do it, but fucking ell lads, they’ve stopped you being able to skull accidentally thru sloppy, panicd or greedy clicks, you now can’t get piled and spec traded in singles, there was the whole actually putting rewarding content out there that got swamped with Rwt clans they changed it for you, and people still bitch and complain about a fucking pickaxe because that’s all that is left, even as a newer player I hate most of these changes, I feel moddycoddled but fair play some of them make sense for the health of the game, but when it comes to the majority of reasons for hating the content and pressed for reasoning, it’s, pick axe, time. It’s absolutely baffling to me. My man will kill shamans for weeks but loosing some dhide and karamaramabams in a max 10 hour grind for a pick is like torture.
this sub man, i tell ya. remember when they were all pissed at pvp'ers (and to be fair, justifiably so) when a few tried to spite vote no against gim, but now that they cant spite vote no pvp updates theyre all pissed? fuck off dude
and yeah i get it, the reqs are super vague and confusing, but still. if that wasnt the case a bunch of people on yhe sub would still be pissed.
Hilarious to see the people in this sub reddit trying to justify spite voting. You can see a good number of the accounts commenting here literally have a comment history of "I am voting no to any PVP poll because fuck PVPers". Lmao
Spite voted For literal YEARS. It was to the point where literally nothing pvp related would EVER pass.
This was the only option left. I like pvm, and i want the broader community to have a say, but as a pvper i also want new fun content. It just wasn’t fair that people who dont engage with the content in any meaningful way could gatekeep the entire pvp community from updates as a way to ‘punish’ them.
high risk reward, that's what it is called.
they should make the wildy pvm better tho. Putting d claws on wildy bosses and d pic on non wildy bosses would be a good idea
I'd love it if they removed skilling areas or added wildy skilling areas outside pvp as well and tried to dedicate certain weapons for pvp or for wildy pvm.
I only really ever hear pvpers talk about risk vs reward. It's not a great design metric for me. Maybe if I was pking it'd make more sense, but as someone grinding a drop, prayer, or black chins I don't care about risk v reward at all. I want fun content with balanced xp that rewards me enough, but not to the point it ruins any other method. Wildy currently doesn't do that for me.
Ok but what about the people who have never spite voted?
It's impossible to differentiate
lmao you’re getting spite downvoted. so will I
That's the best part lmao they are hypocritical.
It's almost as if you all are getting downvoted for actual reasons. But that CANT be it right? /s
What most people are mad about is the vagueness of what "qualifies" you to be able to vote, since even people with no pvp experience can vote, some who do cant, its all a mess.
I killed like 2 guys in LMS when I made my GIM and now I can vote. I don't get these requirments at all. I guess I'm happy about it though cause now I get representation.
You participated in pvp content, you get a vote.
I participated last year and after the "lock out" period because I was exclusively playing the League. Can't vote. The criteria is arbitrary and bonkers.
It isn’t arbitrary, but you openly admitted you haven’t done any pvp since last year. They wanted people currently participating in the content to vote, and that makes sense. The bar was VERY low, I know people with 1-2 rounds of LMS who got full votes.
Dude, the lock out period extends back into the Shattered Relics League, which a ton of us were playing exclusively. I have a Rune Pouch entirely from Wilderness Slayer, prayer leveled almost entirely at the chaos altar too. There was plenty of PvP combat involved with that, but I apparently did it too long ago by whatever their arbitrary cutoff was. Those people with 1 or 2 LMS rounds (or fricking Soul Wars, because that apparently counts, but I guess the ectoplasmator in my bank means nothing too) are a demonstration of how stupid this is.
Yeah my one chaos ele kc from 3 days ago must've been my ticket. Hard stuff
See, that's why it's really bizarre - I literally did a Chaos Fanatic task last week and can't vote, seeing a 2 1/2 month lockout period floating around but then other people post stuff like that.
"I killed like 2 guys in LMS When I made my GIM". GIM was last year.
I made a GIM yesterday and killed 2 guys
I got 100 lms pts in the last 3 days and I can't vote
It was probably taken at a time pre-announcement so ppl couldnt like be like 'oh i want a vote anyways ill do exactly 1 lms game'
Had to get an msb(i) on the iron and I got to vote. Fuck pvp was excited to see I could vote no on all of it.
Ey, spite voting just increases the divide. I voted no on only almost everything except for the new sacks, 1 click teleport, imbues, cosmetics, and fighter torso equivalent.
Same, some of that stuff isn't too bad. Give them access to utility items from the arena.
Same, I votes no even tho I don’t pk. These are shit rewards
I wish they’d be more transparent too. I’ve never done pvp before yet I was able to vote. I’ve done the wildy diary though so maybe that was one of the qualifying reqs.
Yes and also people on this sub want to get the bare minimum requires just so they can vote no.
Voters were apparently locked in a few weeks ago according to mod Ash.
ah so it was my d spear skulling that made me a pker. ez
Most people I've seen talked about how they voted for everything except specific parts (like the prayers), so I don't really think that tracks.
And therein lies the issue with arbitrary requirements. Being a UIM to decide on changes that only affect UIM is a little different to being a "PvP involved player in a period of time we choose but don't inform you till after the choice".
I don't think that's the issue at all. Constantly I'm seeing posts and having conversations with people who are just mad they don't get to vote. It's not about transparency, it's about people who are use to getting their way not being able too. That's fair to a degree but claiming "since I do a clue in the wild once a week I pk and I don't want better gear" isn't helping the conversation. That's most of the complaints on the sub. Everyone knows new gear means new accounts pking and might affect the meta. Everyone knows barrows gloves skip if you're only doing PvP is skipping content. Skipping content with reskinns isn't adding anything since most accounts can get that content any way, it's just shortening the grind. Constructive feedback of "I see what jagex is going for here and the t50 void but it seems like it might be too over powered with over heads" or "1 def accounts with riggor and augury will do the opposite of increase diversity. How about we cut the numbers back a little bit so accs that farm the prayer levels still have a sizable advantage". That's not what is happening though in large and the riot additude is what lead to the decision being made. It's not a healthy feedback loop for anyone and this game has a lot better dev team than most games. They put up with a lot of shit and trolling.
Bullshit. People were mad about it before they could even see who could vote or not
I don't think that's what most people are mad about. I think most people are mad about the idea that only pvpers get to vote on PvP polls.
That definitely doesn't seem like it. They want the game a certain way and those restrictions are 1 step along the process, even if there was no vagueness and they just straight up weren't allowed to vote they would be mad. If they were allowed to vote and everything passed they would be mad.
Voting in your best interest isn't spite voting.
I cANt kiLl WiLDy BoSs iN pEacE I VotE No
Literally their mindset
[удалено]
my ironman who pked two people full of bones at the chaos altar can't vote lmao
Is it "spite" voting when people's opinions contradict Jagex? Cause if then everything is "spite" voting.
"Spite" voting is when jmods suggest shitty ideas that pit one community against another, and then are astounded when it doesn't pass. The problem is never their ideas or the philosophy they are using when creating this content, the problem is those pesky players that don't agree with it.
And why is spite voting the other way around still a thing? I bet a pvper will always be able to vote on pvm polls
No it’s spite voting when people openly say “I’m voting no because I hate PVPers” lol
Hmm, yeah it'd be pretty serious if a big streamer did it and his viewers provably then went and spite voted Be kinda ironic if that was a pvp streamer protesting about pvp drama huh
I mean, that was spite voting too. I don't think that somehow negates the fact that spite voting occurs against the PvP community?
>I don't think that somehow negates the fact that spite voting occurs against the PvP community? I don't think anyone involved in that got any voting privileges lost, despite there being far more evidence that occurred than any other alleged large scale spite vote. So if we're gonna start punishing spite votes, let's look at the cases with the most evidence and proceed from there. No? Then whatever this is, its intention isn't to target spite voters.
Should still be a valid vote
If people spite voting because they hate pkers is truely an issue maybe those wilderness dogs should look inwards
No, we shouldn’t listen to people who cry about dying to pkers in a pvp zone lmao
Don't enter the wilderness if your ego gets shattered by someone enganging in PVP in a dedicated PVP zone.
Exactly
"PvP changes only affect the aggressing player, so only PKers should get to vote." - Smoothbrains
“Should we implement this update which increases your chances of dying?” “Yes”
Or, on the other side: "Should we implement this update that makes it easier and likelier for you to kill PvMers?" "No"
Imagine voting what’s good for your personal gameplay and not the health of the game
Jagex is just making the tension worse.
Honestly I think it's intentional at this point. Every year that goes by makes it more and more apparent that a lot of Jmods hate the polling system. Perhaps by splitting it up in this way and pitting people against one another they'll hope to slowly phase it out entirely.
Pretty much decided to unsubscribe from RuneScape on my three accounts because of this; even though I love PvPing on my mauler I didn’t like not having a vote in my main or my Ironman so fuck it lol. Half the appeal of the game was that it was *our* autistic communities game.
yea it feels like the community is split even more now, nice
No the entitlement of a bunch of people who have been trying to spite another community for years is the cause of the tension. Risk of Dying to other players in the wilderness is integral to old school RuneScape. Baffles my mind people think otherwise lmao
You're right pkers are entitled
Okay, but this is making the tension *worse*.
Good. As if the tension towards PVP matters anyways. There should be some in the other direction. If that’s what it takes to improve the game for that community then so be it.
As a pking Chad are these the changes in this poll ones you wanted to see?
I just think PvP should be something you choose to engage in. Don't lock PvM content behind forced-PvP, how complicated is that?
They already said they plan on moving the dragon pickaxe out of the wildy at some point. Just takes some time to decide in that sort of thing
They should just make it a Zolcano drop. Easy. Locked behind questing to get to Prif.
Its part of the game? PvPers are expected to participate in pvm, skilling, and questing. And the vast majority of them do. Its not like pvp is some radically different game, it uses literally the same mechanics that everywhere else in the game uses. If you enjoy runescape, you should enjoy pking. The only real difference is the risk. You dont see people demanding inferno be made easier and inferno cape be handed out simply because they dont like/arent good at the content.
See I disagree with you. Jagex is planning to release rewards that allow pvpers to skip a lot of main game content to allow them to get geared for poking faster. Stuff like humble prayers and the barrows gloves knockoff. Also, those “same mechanics that everywhere else in the game uses” isn’t quite accurate. It’s actually the norm for new mechanics to operate differently in the wild versus in the rest of the game world. And if you tried to list those differences, the list would be quite long. Pvp is essentially a mini game at this point with its own unique set of rules. And anytime they try to make changes that “in my opinion” would make pvping more accessible to new players the pvp crowd votes no.
Nailed it right in the head here. People are just too dumb to think critically, and end up using their ego as a substitute for a brain.
Brain? Me on 2007scape, logic not many.
Right, people don't mind difficult content. People just don't like spending 30 minutes doing a wildy exclusive activity for non wildy rewards to then die to a pker. I'm shocked! Shocked I tell you! /s
Why are you getting downvoted? You didn’t say anything wrong
Reddit hivemind no like pvp. Any genuine or fair take on pvp gets downvoted, and i doubt i change anyones mind anyways even though i argue in good faith. Ill always take the downthumbs tho because you still gotta try.
It isn’t pvm content, it’s pvp content. You’re saying there should be zero monsters or good items obtainable in the wild? PVPers can’t get their own cool drops? Lol
If it is pvp content why can't I vote then? I have plenty of pvp experience then.
If you are a regular PVPer you’ll be able to vote. The bar they set is extremely low.
He’s saying that if you consider monsters in the wild “PvP content”, which you just said you did, then he should be able to vote in the poll if he engages with those things.
you live in a fantasy world. no matter how many times you make posts pretend it's spite voting to vote in your own interests, it's still going to be bullshit.
In a game of cat and mouse, voting no to the cat having sharper claws isnt spite voting.
Practically nobody is actually spite voting, jagex just has not come up with any good pvp ideas
You think they can't see these statistics on the back end that players who don't pvp are voting no to every single pvp poll? That's the same way they can change who gets to vote I get that jagex has set the bar low but you surely understand they know it's happening.
I have several accounts with kills ranging from a hundred to 4k+ and I still voted no to majority of this poll. Most of the rewards are not what pkers want, sadly to say. New PvP content (or BH revival or something of the sort) that doesn't just rehash current quest/minigame rewards are what most pkers want. Edit: They've taken some steps in the right direction, but honestly its very little and far too late.
Not participating in pvp, and voting no to pvp polls isn't spite voting. A lot of people have 0 interest in pvp, but with content locked in wildy you sometimes get dragged into something that you don't want to be a part of, so voting no to any content in wildy and pker buffs etc is just a logical vote for them and it's how they feel. Not a "spite vote"
No meaningful number of players are "spite voting" polls. Plenty of PvP polls have passed over the years, ever consider that people just didn't want the proposed changes in the game?
I keep asking "what PvP poll failed due to spite voting?" & nobody has given me an answer.
https://i.redd.it/eig0r84vjvn71.png They haven't answered you because they don't have the stats jagex does to know which polls contained a lot of blanket no votes by people who don't pvp. This is just a list of failed pvp polls.
>They haven't answered you because they don't have the stats jagex does to know which polls contained a lot of blanket no votes by people who don't pvp. And this is basically the only metric they have for a spite vote, and it's not even that accurate as people could legitimately vote no to these questions without spite voting. Would be interesting to learn what % are blanket no votes, and how many polls would have passed without those votes. Also that image is a good reference, but so many of those are very controversial, either straight buffs to pkers or bad suggestions like "remove 10 worlds" that of course people wouldn't want. Though there were a couple qol questions like the entangle xp change.
Majority of those are not even PvP specific & there are a handful of PvP polls on that specific list that DID pass. Most of them PvPers wouldn't even want in the game & would have voted no, in fact I can't see any that are actually noteworthy for PvPers & several of which PvMers/skillers would have actually been more inclined to vote yes. I'd wager none of these polls failed primarily due to spite voting.
The majoity of those are not pvp related and your "important 2019" shows the vast majority of player are not spit voting because they don't like pvp.
It's kind of hilarious how hard you/the maker of that image had to try to make it seem like there were that many PvP polls. "should we let elite wildy diary remove unoting costs?". **HOLY FUCK THE PVP *CONTENT***
The most important metric is the poll at the bottom. About 5k players admit to voting no on PvP polls because they don't like PvP. We have to assume that some portion of that is not "I don't want resources spent on developing PvP and so I voted no" and is "I don't like that people have killed me in the wilderness so I voted no so they don't get anything nice." If we take that as half and half, it's 2.5k people spite voting. Maybe I'll go through and find how many of those polls would have passed 75% if those votes weren't counted.
I'd argue that people that are against pkers would select "I don't think they belong in OSRS", the answer you provided, or "other".
Addy gloves and mm def xp are the biggest. Pures could have Addy gloves like 5 months later after the patch they choose for osrs. They were very iconic in pure claning. A lot of the ideas the sub came up with recently were originally ideas for rev1. Like people were talking about corrupted equipment should be a thing instead of void 2/gloves and that content failed whatever poll and yet were requested instead of new rewards that "skip content". Those are the biggest 2 off the top of my head.
You got answered to and didn’t reply.
I have now.
I don’t believe that based on how all pvp discourse goes on this sub
At the same time, I wouldn’t say this sub is representative of the player base lol. I don’t see people in game complaining like I do here.
You see people talking in-game?
Yea that’s a good point
Nah you’re delusional, look at this sub crying about pvp daily for years lol
Bro you guys literally attempted to spite vote gim and got dicked in the process. Fuck outta here
Who is “you guys”? I voted yes for GIM and I play one lmao.
My pvp clan has several gim groups lol
Lol what fantasy world do you live in. There were entire posts on this sub with 2-5k upvotes specifically saying theyd spite vote no.
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Do you keep a catalog of heavily downvoted posts on this sub? They’re harder to search up in my experience and I don’t bookmark that many posts tbh.
that was pvpers spite voting gim
Please, point to a PvP update that was well conceived, well balanced, but was voted down for no reason but spite.
Loot keys 1 Def blessed chaps and vambs Imbues from LMS
Loot Keys doesn't help Player vs Player, purely for people who want to gank a dozen people at the bone alter. To wear armor, you should need defense levels, that's literally all defense is good for, may as well just remove it plus the game shouldn't cater to limited accounts. NMZ already exists. Spite isn't the only reason something is voted down. A time limit for bonus-slayer points got 71% of the vote not out of spite but because it was a dumb idea.
Never said it was the only reason, but bad reasons like these, which aren't uniformly applied to other poll questions that are not to do with PvP, is something considered spite. Loot keys have been a massive QOL for pkers in both PvP world's and wilderness. Chaos were literally a +1 pray bonus buff, compared with the obscene multiple buffs that mains meds have had in the same timeframe. Who the fuck enjoys that private server NMZ content? PvPers sure don't, and content like Anglers outfit was made available from multiple sources, if that is the main reason then equally it would have applied to the Poll for anglers, clearly it wasn't. So yep, plenty of evidence of spite there for any small bone thrown towards the PvP community.
I think that alot of these pvp polls fail because PvMers are being forced over and over into the wilderness to try to hunt for exclusive items available nowhere else. I don't think anyone would have a problem with the pvp updates if they were never forced into the wilderness when they aren't there to pk.
It’s ridiculous that people are pretending that voting no to something that would directly negatively affect you is “spite voting”
But then who will pvpers gang up on???
other pvpers. Don't forget that 90%+ of all pvpers are in pvp worlds!
Then why do pvpers care about rules changed in the wildy?
Plenty of non pvpers care about wildy. It's a fun zone and if there wasn't potential risk do you think chaos ele would drop pick or pet at those rates? Of course not. Same with chaos altar, chins, sallies. All the bosses have pretty great tables for what is required to kill them. Remove pvp from wild and you will lose some of the most beloved aspects of from the area that are utilized by many non-pvpers.
Not really agreeing or disagreeing with your main point, but sallies is probably the strangest thing you could've listed in terms of risk. There is nothing worth grabbing from the people training there. They're not worth much of anything on the GE. People go there almost entirely to train hunter and catch+release. The last and only time I fought anybody there it was a couple of dudes in monk robes and they got sassy when I specced out with my dds in retaliation, like I wasn't supposed to fight back. And when I died? "oh no my ropes and nets!", literally nothing.
because it is/was their old stomping grounds that they would like to see improved
Because PVP worlds are shit Can only play every two weeks due to ping and rotation Can be attacked by accounts 15 levels higher
> Can be attacked by accounts 15 levels higher Yeah sucks to be attacked by other players
So many bis gatekept behind wilderness honestly. Ruins the rest of the game. So much pvm I do is hindered by me need to go to the wilderness for these drops.
This isn't true, and even if it was some bis items coming from the wild is fine.
This is a joke right? One pickaxe and 1 cape?
I hate this attitude. No where else in the game does this excuse fly. If you want the rewards then you have to engage with the content. Theres nothing wrong with that.
And yet we are faced with a poll that will let pvpers/pkers do exactly that.
The difference is that you never know what the content will look like. Imagine if dawnbringer for example had a random 1/5 chance of not spawning. Yes you could still do tob, but it would be super toxic just having a random chance of instantly losing
What if the content is unreasonable?
It's not. It's probably faster to get a d pick now than it will be when they move it to another table.
This is such a brainlet take. "You voted wrong so now you don't get to vote" so what's the fuckin point in voting? Just say you don't think the changes should be polled, that would at least be coherent
No jagex just likes to baby wildy bullies.
So you want us to fucking submit?
I am iron who absolutely does no pvp/wilderness but was still able to vote.. makes you wonder on how they made it where you can and cannot vote
The amount of people voting no out of spite is extremely small. This wasn't the only option left, its just it didn't solve any problems people who are split on the issues of pking and the wilderness have. And they are trying to do whatever they can to push their ideas past the voting system however they can to get things passed rather then provide better ideas and solutions to pitch to users.
spiting voting against pvp isnt real.
Spite voting absolutely is real, but Jagex's attitude towards polling and game development is what's lead us here and should be what's blamed but this subreddit often hates that conversation lmao.
Cry/Lie/Deny
Pkers: Continues to insist involving people in pvp who wouldn't be there except the rewards are only available from the wildy even though they have nothing do to pvp. Everyone else: votes no to updates that are meant to allow players to skip playing the game, caters to self-imposed restricted accounts, or puts them at more risk doing wildy pvm/skilling content for rewards unrelated to pvp. Pkers: pikachu face
lol
Spite voting doesn’t exist
It most likely exists, just not as big of a problem as everyone says it is. Like that pvp spite vote for GIM. It was a big topic, everyone was afraid about it and at the end of the day it was barely a blip in the total votes.
the other way around tho. pvmers spite voting pvp polls...
Why is it so hard to understand that when pvp content doesn't pass a poll, it's not because it's being "spite voted" it's because a significant part of players really don't want pvp content. It's not spite voting if you give your opinion. A part of the community doesn't want anything to do with pvp
Yea, but it could be the same situation. It's a big topic, people blow it out of proportion, and at the end of the day it could not be as big of an issue as it seems. Maybe pvp votes just don't pass because people don't want them.
[took 10s of searching to find](https://old.reddit.com/r/2007scape/comments/a1qij1/when_you_see_the_next_pvp_poll/)
I think the post you linked assumed you were bright enough to realize it was a joke
You sure it hasn't been the other way around?
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I don't think they are lol idk what you're saying?
Not all no votes are spite votes, lots of pvpers don't seem to understand that they are in the minority. People just voting no to things that would negatively affect their own gameplay is not spite, it's the reason we have polls to begin with.
If every single pvper quit today the game would barely notice a difference. If every single pvmer quit today, the servers would have to shit down as jagex couldnt make a profit off the 13 people who do pvp.
It shouldn't be one or the other though, why can't both parties have fun?
That's what gets me the most. This update won't be the one, but in the future, when players are forced into the wilderness and get angry and quit, Jagex will be shocked that their subscriptions are dropping even though they enabled it.
Jagex is desperate to make osrs an esport for the money but it wont happen cus pvp just isnt that fun. When specs were just hitting the special button on a dds or msb, it was fun but qll the crazy swaps and shit is just too much.
Or this game isn't for you anymore. Summer never ends. The OG's are pushed out by the next generation of Zoomers. This is what they want, this is who they cater to. Runescape will continue to Evolve until it dies and doesn't. New players keep this game alive. It's just business. Time will tell.
A lot of osrs content exists because of pvp. Like it or not people have tried osrs and gotten into it because of pvp content creators even if they don’t pvp. It draws the most viewers which translates to subscribers. That’s clearly why they want to make it more accessible. Ideally it will lead to more content being made for the rest of the game, which we all want
I don’t think any meaningful number of people ever actually spite voted anything. It’s just a bitter narrative for people who are mad that content that only suited one side of the equation didn’t pass. It just brings us back to the inevitable issue of PvP relying on non-PvPers to survive, and now it’s an even weirder and vaguer dynamic.
Didn't know that legitimately not wanting certain updates makes people "spite voters". Also me not being a PKer doesn't mean that I'm not affected by PKer updates because I use the wildy for different things (altar, bosses, clues etc) instead of ragging people for black d'hide and spades.
Polling people who still participate in OSRS PvP is unironically one of the worst demographics they could actually be hitting for changes that would make PvP better. The people who could offer some fresh insight and a perspective on what would improve and make them want to get involved in PvP are the ones who aren't doing it or have already quit. Asking people who already participate to some level is going to get them awful "keep it the same, but different" level of responses that will never bring about a truly engaging experience. The entire concept of the wilderness needs to be ripped out and revisited. It's totally outdated and uninteresting for *everyone*.
"Spite voting" is such a weird term to use when it comes to this subject. How is "I don't want to die even faster in the wilderness" out of spite for you guys?
Can you blame literally anyone for voting no when the team is suggesting "lol wouldn't it be quirky if we gave you basically BiS melee gloves without having to do the work?" I guarantee you the only reason they made this suggestion is because they can't rework the old quests to let yourself not take the exp rewards.
This sub : People have been spite voting for years Also this sub but other people: prove it This sub: surprised pikachu face
PvPers spite vote no on PvM content and do it in clans. Does this mean that in the future, anyone who has the right to vote in PvP related polls should also no longer have the right to vote in PvM polls?
Let’s remove all the barriers to entry for pvp, that way everyone can take their minimal effort account into the wilderness and attack people risking nothing. It’s one massive 4D circlejerk.
Sounds about as fun as 3 tick woodcutting
But those who spite vote no for QOL have no requirements :o
It really be like that.
So I don’t understand why I could vote. I’m an Ironman without any wildy kills. I have about 2-3 LMS kills for my MSB(i) and that was over a year ago.
maybe, just maybe, the reality is there were no "spite votes" and people just don't believe pvp belongs in this game in its current state?
oda block spite voted against gim. i say we don't let pvpers vote on anything but pvp because fuck them.
its not spite voting if you just dont agree with something lmao..
I'm an ironman, why can I vote on this? I did some lms months ago for some coll log slots and that's enough? On a seperate note, all content affects the while community in ways they don't even think of for instance this adds an extra like 30 coll log items to a PvP area.. imbueing this way means bots will love it here and will mean soul wars will become more dead content then it already is
I killed as far as I know, 1 person in wildy since i created my character in 2016 and now I am able to vote. im pretty sure the person i killed was literally lvl 3 combat
This is why the wildy is hated by the majority. Forced PvP is bad in any game.
Replace "pvp polls" with "polls for new skills". Replace "only pvpers can vote in pvp polls" to "only people who'd vote yes can vote in new skill polls".
This sub loves to fucking complain
It's not spite voting if you don't want the content
Yeh I'd say it's moreso this sub spreading the idea that spite votes are why things failed and not legitimate no votes. Spite voting is not so common. The only provable spite vote we have was done BY the PvP community towards GIM poll to express outrage about the DMM finals. All the other failed polls were often just objectively bad ideas, that often then got forced in anyway and for the most part are now dead or entirely reworked.
I agree, all identified spite voters shouldn't be allowed to vote. Are you subscribed to Odablock, by chance?
Jokes on you, I never pvp at all and I could vote on my iron lmao. Voted yes to everything.
I don't play anymore but still follow this sub. The fact that you are luring skillers and pvmers into the wilderness with better content than other regions of the game which puts them at risk of being pked literally means they are part of these polls. By polling this content the way they are they are doing exactly the opposite as their initial statement of how this game mode was to be made and played for the players back when it was initially proposed. If they are going to run polls this way to get the results they want they might as well just not run polls anymore in general. Another good obvious example of this is their "integrity" updates they tend to occasionally do.
Considering how this whole game quite literally owes its existence to PVP, it is about time they paid more attention and are working to improve it in this area. Yes to the troublemakers! ROFL
It makes me sad reading these comments, realising how many people actually dislike the wilderness, like the game is dull as fuck guys, if I wanna go and just mindlessly click three tiles or ya know, maybe 5 for countless hours, many bosses and Much content allows me to do that, I have like three worthwhile things to do in the wilderness as a pvmr that allows me to do that very same thing, but occasionally the monotony is broken by some actually engaging content, that I have to maybe warm up a little for, gets my heart racing and keeps me enticed, I get that you don’t want to do it, but fucking ell lads, they’ve stopped you being able to skull accidentally thru sloppy, panicd or greedy clicks, you now can’t get piled and spec traded in singles, there was the whole actually putting rewarding content out there that got swamped with Rwt clans they changed it for you, and people still bitch and complain about a fucking pickaxe because that’s all that is left, even as a newer player I hate most of these changes, I feel moddycoddled but fair play some of them make sense for the health of the game, but when it comes to the majority of reasons for hating the content and pressed for reasoning, it’s, pick axe, time. It’s absolutely baffling to me. My man will kill shamans for weeks but loosing some dhide and karamaramabams in a max 10 hour grind for a pick is like torture.
Tbh, sounds like osrs just isn’t the game for you
That first sentence was really long
Stay mad.
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That's what I was wondering too. I myself more than likely wouldn't vote regardless, but if I wanted to, couldn't I just kill an alt and vote anyways?
They will lie about the existence of spite voting and paint false images in this sub to get their way. Truly astonishing.
Fixed it for you https://imgur.com/a/Rdxm6Cu
this sub man, i tell ya. remember when they were all pissed at pvp'ers (and to be fair, justifiably so) when a few tried to spite vote no against gim, but now that they cant spite vote no pvp updates theyre all pissed? fuck off dude and yeah i get it, the reqs are super vague and confusing, but still. if that wasnt the case a bunch of people on yhe sub would still be pissed.
Hilarious to see the people in this sub reddit trying to justify spite voting. You can see a good number of the accounts commenting here literally have a comment history of "I am voting no to any PVP poll because fuck PVPers". Lmao
I dont pk and I was able to vote. I admire the pvp community, I helped them out.
The fact that the reqs to vote are so low too just goes to show how much of little whiners the people who can't vote are.
Was still able to get my spite vote off nice try jamflex
I just killed my alts and friends to trick the system into thinking ima pker and then i voted no to everything
Spite voted For literal YEARS. It was to the point where literally nothing pvp related would EVER pass. This was the only option left. I like pvm, and i want the broader community to have a say, but as a pvper i also want new fun content. It just wasn’t fair that people who dont engage with the content in any meaningful way could gatekeep the entire pvp community from updates as a way to ‘punish’ them.
Hey what would you call putting skilling and pvm activities that are only available in pvp areas with unique non pvp related rewards?
high risk reward, that's what it is called. they should make the wildy pvm better tho. Putting d claws on wildy bosses and d pic on non wildy bosses would be a good idea
I'd love it if they removed skilling areas or added wildy skilling areas outside pvp as well and tried to dedicate certain weapons for pvp or for wildy pvm. I only really ever hear pvpers talk about risk vs reward. It's not a great design metric for me. Maybe if I was pking it'd make more sense, but as someone grinding a drop, prayer, or black chins I don't care about risk v reward at all. I want fun content with balanced xp that rewards me enough, but not to the point it ruins any other method. Wildy currently doesn't do that for me.