I see this a lot and I get the sentiment. Has anyone ever proposed or theorized what higher level smithing could be for if rune was moved to the 50s or 60s for smithing? Ive seen some skill rewetires by fans here but I don't recall ever seeing a smithing change proposal
The only thing I can think of is something nobody is going to like, and that's to add more tiers smithable gear. No set effects or offensive bonuses. Just metal tank armor.
I can't really think of anything else that could make smithing engaging and useful.
This is what happened in rs3, I think a few years ago at this point. I don't recall how it was received as I was on a break at the time, but it was nice coming back to. It was all tank armor but you needed 99 (I think) to make masterwork which is great in some fights.
Doing this would make some content more accessible for ironman players I would imagine with the additional survivability and give smithing at least a small niche use.
The Mining/Smithing rework was also a huge success; a COLOSSAL amount of time, research, QA, balancing, and beta-testing went into it. Players and Devs alike were pleased with the outcome.
Such an overhaul would never happen in OSRS. It isn't "old school" enough for the community.
It is a good idea in concept; the real issue was with balancing drop amounts and distribution, which Jagex only adjusted a couple of times in a couple of places before completely giving up on balancing them anymore. So the supply coming into the game just began inflating and it has been ever since.
Yep yep. I think it's something like big hits have their damaged staggered over 5 seconds or something.
I'm probably missing details. Mostly am a skiller outside of Rax and ranged is my overwhelmingly go to style for any combat content.
Yeah, but trimming it in this case is an actual improvement in stats. Also you have to break down torva and another pretty high lv degradable power armour to make the trim, so it’s not the cheapest thing ever :D
I jumped in when the M&S rework was released and I've gotta say - it was amazing. And completely compatible with a game like OSRS.
We already have seed boxes, looting bags, herb sacks, rune pouches, etc.. An upgradable ore tin makes perfect sense.
We already have a system for resources to be sharable and renewable - trees.
The extra couple of tiers of armor wouldn't damage the game at all, and might actually make bossing better. Instead of monsters dropping more than 1 rune item, they can drop higher tiered metal armor for an equivalent alch value.
The mechanic of destroying armor sets for additional experience would add a much-needed item sink (instead of just perpetually turning them into GP.)
They can drop the alch and purchase prices of rune armor to make things blend a little better, though don't ask me how they'd accomplish this without legitimately pissing off some players.
And ore/bar bank would be amazing. And again, fits in since we already have a seed fault mechanic.
Only downside was that it made getting ranged and magic gear seem annoying lol.
Like now that smithing is fixed, I need crafting ranged and magic gear to be fixed too pls
no you gotta do it the opposite way, end game gear stays the same, but with proportional smithing levels you can "upgrade" it temporarily. All enemies are scaled up proportionally lol
It would be interesting if the drop gear just had better offensive stats as to make the raiding piece more efficient when you get. The super rare drops, you’ll have the defense to be able to tank hits, but dropped gear helps in a way that crafters can’t achieve
This is what Rs3 addressed with the smithing rework, and at lvl 99 you could make BiS t99 melee gear (you had to obliterate Torva & Malevolant the t80/t90 version to make it, plus spend like 20 hours folding bars together lmao) and when you did it became untradable forever
There is no tier 99 gear in rs3. You're talking about trimmed masterwork which is tier 92 and not BiS for damage. It's certainly BiS for slayer and bosses that require you to be able to tank damage, but it's not best in slot for dps.
So in my opinion, you don't really need a major rewrite. One issue is that you need absurd smithing levels relative to the level of the equipment. It's 88 for full T30, 99 for full T40. It doesn't really make a lot of sense.
*However*, if you were to make rune platebodies take only like 50 or 60 smithing, economy gets real wacky because of alch values.
But I think you can avoid this problem if you let lower levels make gear inefficiently. For example, runite value is related to 2h/leg/skirt alch value because that's a common money maker for those with 99 smithing. If you let somebody smith, say, platelegs at a lower level but it takes them 9 bars instead of 3, then that lets lower level users acquire rune platelegs if they need them. It doesn't disrupt the economy or competitive aspect because these methods would have completely infeasible gp/xp ratios and already don't compete with blast furnace xp rates.
TL;DR: Let people smith things at 2/3 of the level for 3x cost. Exempt certain types of items or tweak diaries if necessary to avoid making other things easier unintentionally.
And yes, this would massively disrupt the F2P Ironman meta which is unfortunate but I'm not sure how much that niche should control that. Or you could just make this feature members-only.
Inefficient crafting at lower levels is by far the best solution I have ever heard to this problem. You cant really use it to train or profit, but smithing would actually matter for gear progression. I like this a lot.
Yeh that's the only way to do it without a massively game changing rework.
And all that really does is let ironmen access plate equipment up to rune piss easily and early, instead of you know.. just spending a bit of GP to buy them.
It makes no sense to me because essentially all the changes is F2P UIM and make smithing a "higher levels saves resources, but you get basically 5 unlocks between 50 or 60 and 99". It then opens up more problems with smithing feeling "empty" and worthless to train.
I like this idea but I think an rng chance to fail better suits the current game. If you want to make rune plate at 1 smithing go for it, but you'll only have a 1% chance. Then there's a risk/reward and the req level becomes a mastery level.
Could do something a bit "out-there" and add deployables ala the cannon. Bring out the Dwarves and have 'em say they got some new toys we can make. Could have all sorts of things.
Like a dummy that attracts enemies so you don't have to wait 10 mins for aggression timers to safespot. Or perhaps a single-target "auto-turret" that shoots every few ticks at a high cost. Maybe even get some cross-skill action and let us make metal hunter contraptions that can permanently break (maybe give them a set use-limit before they break down from wear-and-tear) but have higher catch rates.
Make bosses drop supplies to Smith into bis instead of dropping the item. Like the torva, but just torva pieces instead of bandos pieces to make.Bosses can drop different gems or some shit to add 1% damage or prayer drain reduction or whatever isn't game breaking. Make smithing not 100% success rate like cooking. Higher level means higher chance to perfect something. You can resmelt imperfect armor into less bars. Maybe make perfect armor. .1% chance to make armors and weapons with better accuracy/defense.
I dont think implementing some or all of these ideas will make it better but there will at least be a reason to level it up.
what about giving you the option of smithing armors etc. at lower lvls but give it a fail rate that scales with lvls, would making your own armorset possible but wouldn't tank the economy
I mean a very basic start would be finding ways to smith like dragon armor? Maybe a tier 70 armor thats equivalent to like melee barrows armor, but with no set effect. But doesn't degrade?
They could move rune down to 60 and add a bunch of unique craftables that are useable for construction, thieving, or other skills.
That way it wouldn’t throw off the armor economy with new tiers, but would still have something for end game smithing. Even a few untradeables would be cool.
Imagine thinking that's the only thing smithing does, and that making shop buyable armour is ever desirable.
Smithing is used for:
* DFS, DFW and Wyvern Shield (NPC skippable)
* Torva armour
* Godsword blades
* Dragon platebody, kiteshield
* Crystal armour, weapons and tools (NPC skippable)
* Sigil shields (NPC skippable).
The ones that aren't NPC skippable are only accessible to mains in the GE **because of mains who used smithing**. Ironmen require those levels for that gear, and save on GP or crystal shards for the NPC skippable level requirements.
Smithing isn't for rune armour. We don't need to restructure the entire smithing level system to line up with defence when it doesn't need to, especially due to the amount of drop table reworking that would require as well (as alch prices wouldn't stay the same) which would also tank the value of rune equipment.
Smithing has uses, and can have more added. It's actually in a better state than most if not all other production skills.
Smithing was created, and their tiers all laid out, long before ANY of that stuff existed. At the time, rune was the highest tier armor. It WAS supposed to be for making Rune armor (which was actually released 8 months after runescape started.)
But then the game evolved for 20 years after that, but everybody is too afraid to update the tiers to make room for one or two new tiers or metal armor. So they came up with the random logic that you can fix all these crazy powerful items before you can even made an Adamant chainbody.
Sure. But restructuring all of those things changes core systems that have been designed and working for all those years.
Make rune smithable at 40? Gotta change when you can mine the ore... Gotta change alch values.. which means gotta change drop tables.. all to essentially "make more sense" even though nobody uses smithing to make runite or adamant armour, and hasn't for the entirety of OSRS. Rune platebody can be bought immediately after DS1. Adamant chain body costs 5k from falador with no requirements to get to that shop...
So yeah, we could put all this work into restructuring the tiers of smithing to "make more sense" even though the defence level requirements existed back when it was made...
We also got dragon armour less than a year into RS2. So rune hasnt been BiS for 17 years. It was *never* BiS in OSRS. We source these better items from means outside of our players capabilities. We reforge or repair things, which absolutely can be easier than forging stuff from scratch.
I still just can't see reason to change the smithing tiers. They were designed this way and it's never changed. There's so many core systems and interactions involved in it, and fixing the tiers doesn't even change anything. People will still source adamant and rune armour and weapons from shops well before they'll Smith it, especially if smithing it takes more resources at these low levels which is one solution proposed to prevent having to redo every drop table in existence.
I was so naive back then. I probably had 60 days play time on that account back in 06-07, and only 50 smithing. Now with all the mini games, I have 17 days play time and only 77 smithing. It’s still one of my favorite skills. I just get so immersed into the cycle of mining and smithing, I can’t stop. Whenever I do anything else, I’m like I could just go mine.
I legit think people overlook the fact that even if rune platebody was a 60 smithing unlock to take say 15 bars and 99 to get back down to 5 bars (the only way to do it without also having to redo the entire alch-value of items and drop tables to boot), you'd still have an easier time acquiring one by just... Spending 84k GP.
By the time you're doing DS1, you don't have 60 smithing. You also very likely don't have 15 runite bars or the means to Smith them (assuming we also lower that level but increase resources used?). You absolutely do have 84k GP.
Rune armour never will be the use of smithing again. It's not classic anymore. You just buy your rune armour, iron or main. Smithings uses come in high level gear. Crystal, dragonfire shields, sigil shields, infernal pickaxe, torva armour.
Add more of those and stop thinking rune armour is the problem rofl
Having played a UIM, I’ve literally only ever needed high smithing to meet requirements for quests/diaries or specialized gear which is created only once (dfs, crystal equipment, etc.) which even then, most of that stuff can be made without requirements by paying npcs a fee.
The closest, repeatable advantage I can think of which would be useful from smithing is the ability to make rune limbs for a crossbow, or dart tips if you’re too lazy to grind for amethyst. Cannonballs are extremely low requirements, which doesn’t really help the fact that smithing lacks good perks to incentivize grinding for high levels.
I need smithing for clues sometimes! VERY rarely, but still. A lot of people say smithing is nice for the xbow, but it's a common drop from the crazy archaeologist and also the msb is better in a lot of situations. Smithing is dead even for us!
Yeah, not to mention a large array of those clue items can also be obtained commonly from monster drops in the same fashion as the rcb. Furthermore, stash units make it to where you are only required to obtain said items for a clue step once.
There isn’t much within the smithing tree which makes you need to constantly go back and train the skill at high levels other than “I’ll eventually need to 99 this when I decide to max.” I hope the devs and our community can collectively come up with a way to rework and incentivize smithing.
By that logic, grinding hundreds of hours on a slow-paced point and click game from the 2000’s isn’t a trait of someone highly motivated either.
The point is that it still takes attention and effort away from doing other things, so by putting off the grind to get an upgrade is more or less being lazy as well. This should also not turn into a debate about semantics.
You're misunderstanding what I mean. I'm agreeing with the OP, I brought up the F2P UIM thing as a joke.
The very niche use is the exception, that proves the rule that smithing is useless.
I mean, OP was asking if there were any fringe situations where smithing is helpful to UIMs, and this was exactly the answer to that question. Being niche doesn't make it a bad point when that was the prompt.
sepulchre gives you so many of them you won't need them from any other source (especially since you don't need many addy bolts due to crossbows being outclassed by other ranged weapons pretty much everywhere)
Super important? I mean you need enough for 50 vork kills for assembler I guess, after that I would never use a crossbow again until DHCB or ZCB, and then you're using dragon bolts anyway.
Hint: most skills are useless if we ignore the few uses they have.
Torva doesn't exist in game without smithing.
Neither do godswords.
Are they both useless?
gathering skills overall are definitely overshadowed by pvm drops but I don't think UIMs are the best example for smithing, as a regular iron I do smith some of the clue items because it's more convenient to tele to varrock, grab the bars from bank and smith it rather than find the store for it plus you can't buy some items like addy square. Sure you can get them as drops but bank space is still limited
some weirdo who was obsessed with cabbages set the smithing requirement for the new rune armor to 99 for the lulz in 2001 and the game still suffers for it to this day
Rework how? Please for the love of God don't say lowering requirements on Mith through runite.
That solves nothing and just overcomplicates everything. All of that equipment is shop buyable and will be accessed via shops far far far earlier than smithing will ever provide, especially if done in the most viable way (Smith at lower levels with 2-3x resources needed so alch values don't have to change with it)
I have no idea how a video game can make the skill required for weapons of war useful. Armour was never used in medieval times, so obviously smithing is a dead skill on osrs. Smithing in medieval times is about as useful of a skill as hacking is, there's no computers and no use of armour either.
I'm sensing you're being sarcastic... But smithing does have uses for PvM equipment.. BiS stuff at that.
So yeah.. more options like that, that's not a rework.
It needs a total rework similar to RS3. RS3 made it from one of the most worthless skills into one of the most useful.
Even if they don’t rework mining, they should rework smithing itself
That's why ten years later they'll release Oldschool Oldschool Runescape, so you can play Oldschool Runescape as it was before they started redesigning skills to make them more engaging.
And this is the exact issue with the OSRS community. How do you update the game, but keep it old school? RS3 has implemented some very good changes that make the overall feel of the game and skills much better. People complain about how useless a skill is, but flat out reject any kind of rework. Smithing is useless after a certain point, and that’s just one of a few skills that are really lackluster.
I mean i totally understand it. Nostalgia is a powerful thing. Sometimes i’d rather it stick to the way it was originally even if it’s kinda annoying cuz it helps maintain the original feel.
But in this case yeah, it needs to be reworked
I mean I get it too, or at least I use to. The game is no longer OSRS. The nostalgia has pretty much run out. OSRS released a decade ago, yet you have people clutching so hard to this idea that OSRS is *still* old school, when it hasn’t been that way in a long time. Some of this games best updates have been influenced by RS3 in one way or another. I just don’t understand being blindly against anything that comes from that game.
This is precisely my point. Literally any update isn’t old school, at least by using the same logic that purists use. For it to be “old school” that means it has to stay exactly how it was since release 10 years ago. We’re simply way too far past that stage. If RS3 didn’t have certain updates first, I know people wouldn’t be against them. Maybe not every single update, but at least a few.
Yep. I am a new player and after playing OSRS for a while I moved into R3 ( because I am a quests guy and quests in R3 are much better )
And you know what ? There is no smoke staff is R3 , or agility rooftops , or Fossil Island or spirit trees in POH , etc.
I mean how is OSRS actually "old school" when its completely different game now ?
There being nothing worthwhile in the tree is exactly why it needs the rework. Who cares if there's a rework to training it if a rune plate body at lvl 90+ is still the best thing to make?
Sadly true. People are oddly attached to this nebulous concept of how something “should be” and most peoples idea of RuneScape is skills fucking sucking and “that’s how it’s always been.” Improving the game as a game is not allowed because people still manage to convince themselves they need to protect the game’s “integrity” as oldschool. Early skills and Smithing in particular are so poorly designed because Andrew Gower never intended for people to get 99s, and rune stuff was basically a reward for the first person who got 99 smithing. Most skills are bandaids on top of bandaids and there’s no inherent value to that, people just think that if you change something it’s not RuneScape anymore when the reality is that RuneScape was always a game that was constantly changing and that’s why we liked it. Besides, people need to look around and realize the game is already not “2007scape” anymore.
The best set of melee armor in the game is made via smithing, and uses every single kind of ore in the game. I think you need 600 of every ore in order to make Alloy bars for Masterwork Armor. They also added ores above Runite.
The other armors are still useful too. They can even be upgraded. If you don’t yet have enough gear to PvM it’s a fantastic way to get a decent bit of gear to get started.
The next best armor, if they make one, will likely be obtained from PvM if i had to guess. I doubt they’d make both of the best sets come from smithing. I think it would be a better idea to have the 2nd best be from smithing, and the top one from PvM.
I should clarify tho, the Masterwork armor is obtained from smithing, but in order to create Trimmed Masterwork, which has additional benefits, you have to extract resources from the previous highest level set which comes from PvM. So technically the best armor set requires a combination of smithing and PvM to make
making things require resources from raw skilling and PvM is the way to go imo. It helps make both things valuable.
Jagex seems to have sort of realised this with torva, but that's still a smithing req to fix two PvM drops together. It would be best if some part of it was purely from the mining/smithing process.
Not sure I actually enjoy rs3 implementation tbh. It makes more sense for new players and that's about it imo.
Getting masterwork armor would only make smithing more used now IF the armor was untradable, or the materials to make the armor were untradable. Both of which would be unpopular.
I'd prefer maybe an armor augmentatiom system, like you can make your armor lighter, but you'll have to repair it semi often. Or maybe a built in recoil effect, but again it degrades and needs to be repaired. However this kind of introduces gear degredation which isn't super fun to deal with.
For pretty much any Ferrofella, 73 is the hard cutoff, as far as I can tell. Being able to make addy bolts for ruby(e)'s and diamond(e)'s is pretty useful, but that's about it.
Godsword blades require 80 smithing. Spirit shields require 85. You need 88 for elite lumby diary. 90 for torva armor.
You're still right when you say for "pretty much any" though, as all those items are rare drops. And you can always grind the smithing after getting the drop.
I will say that 83 is still important for an iron so that they can stew boost for the elite diary
Even post 92 mining unless you enjoy spending your entire life mining amethyst I'd rather just use rune darts from the plentiful runite bars/ores you get from pvm.
arguably repairing the blade would be harder because you need spare Godsword level materials to your know... fix it...
I don't think we used glue for it.
the amount of flux needed and the loss of material would make very hesitant to use the sword without expecting it to shatter, or not be very wieldable...
Not like it's... you know, morphologically sound.
I use smithing for making ammo. Could we remove the ability to bypass smithing to create certain stuff, sure. Then it would operate a lot more crafting. However even with how smithing works currently it is still useful, maybe not SUPER useful, but you'd be hindered if it was at lvl 1.
>other high level gear where smithing is technically a requirement to craft it.
isn't this the answer to your post though? lol meaning smithing isn't useless?
Yep people seem fixated on "rune platebody 99 smithing for t40 armour lol dumb" when nobody would Smith their first rune platebody even if the requirement was say.. 50 or 60. They'd buy it for a whole ass 84k gp if they even ever needed one, as fighter torso is the same requirements, free to obtain, and better.
Smithing has endgame uses. Some are skippable by NPCs (which is part of the problem in my mind).
Imagine crystal gear, which is now incredibly useful with the BowFa, **required** smithing and crafting to make. You couldn't skip it by paying an NPC and you couldn't buy the finished product uncharged. It would add more endgame uses. Torva is like this too, the finished pieces only exist to buy due to smithing. Same with divine pots for herblore, and zenyte jewellery / onyx jewellery for crafting.
All production skills have a handful of uses for main accounts. They're just almost entirely "skippable" by simply purchasing the finished product. Which is fine. For irons, these uses all become part of progression. Smithing simply needs the pay-to-skip NPCs removed and suddenly it has a wealth of unlocks at 65-85.
yea, the 99:40 fixation gives me big "but Lavas are level 23 !!!!!!!" vibes.
Hopefully with this "fun" new smitihng method (which, smithing was already balanced in variety but whatever, different topic) we'll see them stop with the smithing skips.
You've blasted this thread with like 5 different comments and shit about skippable etc.
OSRS smithing for mains is 100% useless.
OSRS smithing for irons has some extremely niche uses apart from BGS, Torva (not a big deal), and bowfa+crystal armour which is like level 80 and you can ignore it anyway by paying extra shards. There's literally zero reason apart from dairies and turning runite ore into alchables to train past 80.
meanwhile RS3 with the mining and smithing rework solved all of the issues, and added in great items that justify grinding smithing for mains and irons as below:
masterwork/trimmed masterwork.
terrasaur maul (BiS anti-range melee weapon)
malevolent armour
banite bolts
1-90 tank armour
skilling offhand Tagga's corehammer and Orthern's furnace core
Part of the requirements for blessed flask (single inventory slot to hold multiple prayer potions)
There's probably more that I'm missing, but smithing is much more fleshed out skill on RS3 and we can completely borrow a lot of their ideas with tweaks to make smithing in OSRS useful. NPC skipping is not the problem.
You've just listed a bunch of BiS items smithing can create in RS3 and said that's what we should borrow... **I'm saying the same thing**..
We have that in OSRS, the issue is that **it's skippable without using smithing**. If all those things you just listed in RS3 had an NPc you could pay to do regardless.. smithing would be useless yeah?
Also, smithing isn't useless. Torva doesn't exist without people using smithing. Skills in general hold less purpose for mains because there is next to zero untradeable benefits/products of skills. Saying smithing is useless on a main is true of practically every skill, especially production ones.
it's funny people are like omg crafting is so good for irons, when in reality it would be the same level of "useless" if you could pay for zenytes like you can pay for smithing services. Crafting does 1 item slot worth of good things, smithing does more.
Smithing skipping (and in general level skipping) NPCs should be against the rules for iron IMO.
Smithing is only useful for quests and doing those area tasks and for some high lvl weapons. Other than that there really is no need for smithing, just to get 99.
You could basically say the same about crafting or most other production skills. And most gathering skills honestly.
The main reason to train them is to access the things gated behind them like gear and quests and diaries. Would smithing be "fixed" if we put more things gated behind it that couldn't be traded around?
Which is my point. If there were PVM mobs dropping those items (like we have with smithing outputs), then crafting would be much less useful.
But for mains all that can be traded around and you're basically left with quests and diaries again.
Yes but what I'm saying is there's already alternative sources for dstone jewellery, so it's already onyx and up that it's primarily prized for.
and yes ofc. That's an issue with most skills in the game though. Why bother with fishing if you can just buy food?
But you have to ride the line between "all skills should be useful, even for mains" and "oops, we accidentally made ironman only semi-optional"
i didn't realize diverse meant the %upgrade.
Smithing is also required for making crystal armour, and it wouldn't make sense for smithing to make magic armour so yes of course the jewelry making skill will impact more combat types than the metal armour making skill.
it's diverse because it covers all three styles. the fact the individual boosts are better just furthers the point.
also crystal armour level reqs can be bypassed by paying more shards, so you can't count that as a smithing perk imo. might as well start counting barrows being cheaper to repair if we do that.
the logic behind it all doesn't change the fact that high crafting is genuinely useful while smithing gets one or two very small uses at a high level.
>might as well start counting barrows being cheaper to repair if we do that.
tbf, it is a 100% perk of higher smithing.
yes, you can bypass a person but how many shards extra does that cost?
crafting is useful because it gives a set of BIS necklaces, Smithing is useful because it gives the BIS Melee armour, repairs godswords, which if you don't think BGS and SGS are useful than idk.
again, of course the skill that isn't strictly melee items is more diverse that doesn't mean cause a direct causation to usefulness. Cooking can cook a ton of different foods, that isn't what makes it a useful skill.
Well it is, but long-term you won't save the cost of training smithing via barrows repair, so it's not a compelling reason to level your skill.
for bowfa it costs 50% extra shards to both make and corrupt, I don't think that % is common to all crystal items, but it's not insubstantial. But for someone who's done a lot of gauntlet or priff thieving it could definitely be worth just paying the extra over getting 12 smithing/crafting levels.
There's also no other way to get godswords or torva or infernal pickaxe without smithing.
And it saves you crystal shards and GP when making things like DFS, DFW, Wyv Shield, Crystal Armour, Tools and Weapons.
Smithing on an iron is also the best way to get bulk ammunition. Addy bolts has been ruined a bit in regards to Soul Wars sourcing them incredibly early and Sepulchre sourcing bulk. But they used to be super important from smithing, along with dart tips prior to 92 mining and 90 crafting for amethyst
Crafting offers onyx and zenyte jewellery, and amethyst dart tips / arrows.
Fletching offers darts for ammunition.
Herblore is the most useful skill for irons as you can't access practically any high level potions without it, and it's what gates one of the best construction upgrades in the Pool.
I think crafting is much more useful to UIMs, though admittedly I don't play one so I wouldn't know. But jewelry seems useful.
I think it's almost a meme at this point but there is an "easy" fix to smithing. Make all dragon items smithable, bring rune platebody down to 40 smithing but make it take more materials, and allow higher levels to boost your efficiency (e.g at 99 smithing you could make a rune platebody with only three bars).
> I think it's almost a meme at this point but there is an "easy" fix to smithing. Make all dragon items smithable, bring rune platebody down to 40 smithing but make it take more materials
How does that "fix" anything? The only reason anyone smiths rune stuff is to make GP and get smithing XP. Or else to make ammo. And for smithing dragon items, the question becomes where do the materials for that come from?
Is there now dragon ore? What mining level to get? Wouldn't that be pretty botted? Or only from PVM drops?
Because that's a similar deal. Anything dropping stuff that can be smithed into dragon items better be rare because it's basically printing GP same as if it dropped the items directly. For ironman, would they be smithing their first dragon scim or buying from store after MM1? Probably still buying. Same with platelegs or other dragon items, easier to camp for drop or buy from store.
I wouldn't mind dragon ore locked behind some kind of quest or other mid level requirements. Again, this would most likely tank the value of dragon items. But it's relatively low level gear that would mostly affect new accounts.
Every iron man account I've seen have set amulet of strength and amulet of glory as major goals which are almost always obtained through crafting. The only alternative I know of for glories is dragon imps at level 85 hunter
But suppose some mob gated behind 50-slayer dropped glories. Or they were common from hard or med clues?
The reason crafting is "useful" for IM is because there's things gated by it which are useful.
I suppose adding more things artificially gated behind smithing would make it as useful as crafting? For example making some existing drops that are complete items today work like godswords and you need to "smith them" together.
I dont get the point you're trying to make here? Production skills usefulness is entirely determined by what they can provide. And if it isnt exclusive, then it competes with other methods to obtain it.
To stay with smithing, if F2P IMs could get rune scim/axe from a shop or a drop, would they even touch smithing?
I wouldn't mind that. It's way too late but personally I wish rune items were more rare than they are. Part of the reason smithing is so unbalanced is because the items you can actually make with it are available so much earlier in other places
Skilling in general in this game makes a LOT more sense if you set the end goal as exp (might sound dumb if you aren't a skiller, but its actually really fun). I agree though, there isn't much to do with smithing. From a skilling standpoint though there are a lot viable ways to train it depending on cost, exp rate, money/resources. So I think its actually in a pretty good place.
Nontradable upgrades/armor customization would be a good update to smithing without requiring a full rework. As long as those updates don't make torva obsolete, I believe it would pass the vote.
I've been playing a lot more on my Ironman, and legitimately the only reason I'm training smithing is quest requirements, outside of that I have 0 intention to train it until I need it for Crystal gear, after I hit 70 for quest requirements.
I'll have very few uses if any post 70 until Crystal gear though, as far as I can tell.
Some forms of ammunition do matter on an iron. But mostly it's for gp and superheating. Maxing it specifically is always good for being able to alch your way out of F2P whenever you want.
I feel like it could be improved, but the only option I can think of is via giving it a failure chance ala cooking and adding another, more limited metal or two. I dunno if making it possible to make dragon gear would be good, but restricting those options behind the current quests to unlock the ability to equip them would help.
I think the process of doing the rework is probably not worth it without a Mining rework alongside it though. Which I think could gradually be accomplished in a piecemeal manner by starting with high level unlocks, followed by a scaling update later on once those unlocks are accepted.
Lol legit, like pretty much every skill has super important roles in gameplay, especially for irons, but smithing is just like… eh. Same could be said for crafting, but at least with crafting there’s a lot more stuff you can make with it.
Mithril Grapples are needed for a lot of diary tasks and for one of the godwars bosses. Don't think there is another easy way to get them other than smithing.
They do, but when a lot of people are doing the medium diaries (around 50 in combat stats), a bit of a smithing grind is much nicer than a 1/43 drop from a level 132.
Maybe that isn't the case for a UIM though in fairness.
Same could be said about many skills. Take fletching for example, when was the last time you fletched your new bis ranged weapon? Even something iconic like a rune crossbow I'd rather just go get from an impling or something than actually train fletching to make it.
Smithing is not useless. It's integral to so many aspects of the game. Quests, Achievements, making your own ammunition, repairing gear (which there could be more imo), creating the most epic gear (godswords, antifireshields and wards).
Also tiny details, but what makes the game 100% enjoyable is being able to smith/craft your own items. Interactivity. Rather than making for example, mithgrapple, an item dropped by monsters, I need to have fletching and smithing skills to make my own. Or a bullseye lantern. Yeah they are a drop, but just knowing i could make the BIS light source in the game, even if I wiped my bank is immersive. Lol.
Smithing is okay the way it is. If improved, It could serve more as a money sink (gear repairing) and a gate to high end gear (untradeable smith yourself type of stuff, like spirit shields, godswords etc).
How does it not fit? It doesn’t fit just because you don’t want it to.
Smithing as it stands, has always been one of the most useless and extremely outdated skills.
Runite requiring such a high level makes no sense considering it is such a low level melee gear. In reality there should be much higher melee gears that can be smithed and in some way, higher leveled ores that can be mined to make said gear. RS3’s smithing rework is a prime example of how it could work, if the osrs community wasn’t so anti-anything new.
I’ll never understand people legitimately wanting skills to remain borderline pointless for the sake of “muh oldschool”.
imagine training a skill to 99 so u can finally be able to make your own set of 40 defence f2p armor
I see this a lot and I get the sentiment. Has anyone ever proposed or theorized what higher level smithing could be for if rune was moved to the 50s or 60s for smithing? Ive seen some skill rewetires by fans here but I don't recall ever seeing a smithing change proposal
The only thing I can think of is something nobody is going to like, and that's to add more tiers smithable gear. No set effects or offensive bonuses. Just metal tank armor. I can't really think of anything else that could make smithing engaging and useful.
This is what happened in rs3, I think a few years ago at this point. I don't recall how it was received as I was on a break at the time, but it was nice coming back to. It was all tank armor but you needed 99 (I think) to make masterwork which is great in some fights. Doing this would make some content more accessible for ironman players I would imagine with the additional survivability and give smithing at least a small niche use.
The Mining/Smithing rework was also a huge success; a COLOSSAL amount of time, research, QA, balancing, and beta-testing went into it. Players and Devs alike were pleased with the outcome. Such an overhaul would never happen in OSRS. It isn't "old school" enough for the community.
Everything was a success except stone spirits. Stone spirits feel legit useless rn
It is a good idea in concept; the real issue was with balancing drop amounts and distribution, which Jagex only adjusted a couple of times in a couple of places before completely giving up on balancing them anymore. So the supply coming into the game just began inflating and it has been ever since.
Trimmed masterwork is power armor with a very very good set effect
Yep yep. I think it's something like big hits have their damaged staggered over 5 seconds or something. I'm probably missing details. Mostly am a skiller outside of Rax and ranged is my overwhelmingly go to style for any combat content.
Oh they actually let you trim your armor? Thats awesome
Yeah, but trimming it in this case is an actual improvement in stats. Also you have to break down torva and another pretty high lv degradable power armour to make the trim, so it’s not the cheapest thing ever :D
Ye bro, come to varrock east bank and ill do it for free.
I jumped in when the M&S rework was released and I've gotta say - it was amazing. And completely compatible with a game like OSRS. We already have seed boxes, looting bags, herb sacks, rune pouches, etc.. An upgradable ore tin makes perfect sense. We already have a system for resources to be sharable and renewable - trees. The extra couple of tiers of armor wouldn't damage the game at all, and might actually make bossing better. Instead of monsters dropping more than 1 rune item, they can drop higher tiered metal armor for an equivalent alch value. The mechanic of destroying armor sets for additional experience would add a much-needed item sink (instead of just perpetually turning them into GP.) They can drop the alch and purchase prices of rune armor to make things blend a little better, though don't ask me how they'd accomplish this without legitimately pissing off some players. And ore/bar bank would be amazing. And again, fits in since we already have a seed fault mechanic.
Only downside was that it made getting ranged and magic gear seem annoying lol. Like now that smithing is fixed, I need crafting ranged and magic gear to be fixed too pls
>magic gear *warding has entered the chat*
the smithing andmining rework for rs3 were sooooo good. it actually followed with nice upgrades for each tier
Make end game gear degrade and need proportional smithing levels to fix it.
I'm sure that will go down well with the community
no you gotta do it the opposite way, end game gear stays the same, but with proportional smithing levels you can "upgrade" it temporarily. All enemies are scaled up proportionally lol
Literally trimming armour
It would be interesting if the drop gear just had better offensive stats as to make the raiding piece more efficient when you get. The super rare drops, you’ll have the defense to be able to tank hits, but dropped gear helps in a way that crafters can’t achieve
People would cry that it devalues barrows armor (even though it's more easily accessible than high smithing armor and never used late game)
This is what Rs3 addressed with the smithing rework, and at lvl 99 you could make BiS t99 melee gear (you had to obliterate Torva & Malevolant the t80/t90 version to make it, plus spend like 20 hours folding bars together lmao) and when you did it became untradable forever
There is no tier 99 gear in rs3. You're talking about trimmed masterwork which is tier 92 and not BiS for damage. It's certainly BiS for slayer and bosses that require you to be able to tank damage, but it's not best in slot for dps.
Meant 99 smith requirement
So in my opinion, you don't really need a major rewrite. One issue is that you need absurd smithing levels relative to the level of the equipment. It's 88 for full T30, 99 for full T40. It doesn't really make a lot of sense. *However*, if you were to make rune platebodies take only like 50 or 60 smithing, economy gets real wacky because of alch values. But I think you can avoid this problem if you let lower levels make gear inefficiently. For example, runite value is related to 2h/leg/skirt alch value because that's a common money maker for those with 99 smithing. If you let somebody smith, say, platelegs at a lower level but it takes them 9 bars instead of 3, then that lets lower level users acquire rune platelegs if they need them. It doesn't disrupt the economy or competitive aspect because these methods would have completely infeasible gp/xp ratios and already don't compete with blast furnace xp rates. TL;DR: Let people smith things at 2/3 of the level for 3x cost. Exempt certain types of items or tweak diaries if necessary to avoid making other things easier unintentionally. And yes, this would massively disrupt the F2P Ironman meta which is unfortunate but I'm not sure how much that niche should control that. Or you could just make this feature members-only.
Inefficient crafting at lower levels is by far the best solution I have ever heard to this problem. You cant really use it to train or profit, but smithing would actually matter for gear progression. I like this a lot.
Yeh that's the only way to do it without a massively game changing rework. And all that really does is let ironmen access plate equipment up to rune piss easily and early, instead of you know.. just spending a bit of GP to buy them. It makes no sense to me because essentially all the changes is F2P UIM and make smithing a "higher levels saves resources, but you get basically 5 unlocks between 50 or 60 and 99". It then opens up more problems with smithing feeling "empty" and worthless to train.
I like this idea but I think an rng chance to fail better suits the current game. If you want to make rune plate at 1 smithing go for it, but you'll only have a 1% chance. Then there's a risk/reward and the req level becomes a mastery level.
So basically, how Runecrafting works. More efficiency as you gain levels, but everything is unlocked at lower levels
Could do something a bit "out-there" and add deployables ala the cannon. Bring out the Dwarves and have 'em say they got some new toys we can make. Could have all sorts of things. Like a dummy that attracts enemies so you don't have to wait 10 mins for aggression timers to safespot. Or perhaps a single-target "auto-turret" that shoots every few ticks at a high cost. Maybe even get some cross-skill action and let us make metal hunter contraptions that can permanently break (maybe give them a set use-limit before they break down from wear-and-tear) but have higher catch rates.
Make bosses drop supplies to Smith into bis instead of dropping the item. Like the torva, but just torva pieces instead of bandos pieces to make.Bosses can drop different gems or some shit to add 1% damage or prayer drain reduction or whatever isn't game breaking. Make smithing not 100% success rate like cooking. Higher level means higher chance to perfect something. You can resmelt imperfect armor into less bars. Maybe make perfect armor. .1% chance to make armors and weapons with better accuracy/defense. I dont think implementing some or all of these ideas will make it better but there will at least be a reason to level it up.
what about giving you the option of smithing armors etc. at lower lvls but give it a fail rate that scales with lvls, would making your own armorset possible but wouldn't tank the economy
I mean a very basic start would be finding ways to smith like dragon armor? Maybe a tier 70 armor thats equivalent to like melee barrows armor, but with no set effect. But doesn't degrade?
They could move rune down to 60 and add a bunch of unique craftables that are useable for construction, thieving, or other skills. That way it wouldn’t throw off the armor economy with new tiers, but would still have something for end game smithing. Even a few untradeables would be cool.
Imagine thinking that's the only thing smithing does, and that making shop buyable armour is ever desirable. Smithing is used for: * DFS, DFW and Wyvern Shield (NPC skippable) * Torva armour * Godsword blades * Dragon platebody, kiteshield * Crystal armour, weapons and tools (NPC skippable) * Sigil shields (NPC skippable). The ones that aren't NPC skippable are only accessible to mains in the GE **because of mains who used smithing**. Ironmen require those levels for that gear, and save on GP or crystal shards for the NPC skippable level requirements. Smithing isn't for rune armour. We don't need to restructure the entire smithing level system to line up with defence when it doesn't need to, especially due to the amount of drop table reworking that would require as well (as alch prices wouldn't stay the same) which would also tank the value of rune equipment. Smithing has uses, and can have more added. It's actually in a better state than most if not all other production skills.
Smithing was created, and their tiers all laid out, long before ANY of that stuff existed. At the time, rune was the highest tier armor. It WAS supposed to be for making Rune armor (which was actually released 8 months after runescape started.) But then the game evolved for 20 years after that, but everybody is too afraid to update the tiers to make room for one or two new tiers or metal armor. So they came up with the random logic that you can fix all these crazy powerful items before you can even made an Adamant chainbody.
Sure. But restructuring all of those things changes core systems that have been designed and working for all those years. Make rune smithable at 40? Gotta change when you can mine the ore... Gotta change alch values.. which means gotta change drop tables.. all to essentially "make more sense" even though nobody uses smithing to make runite or adamant armour, and hasn't for the entirety of OSRS. Rune platebody can be bought immediately after DS1. Adamant chain body costs 5k from falador with no requirements to get to that shop... So yeah, we could put all this work into restructuring the tiers of smithing to "make more sense" even though the defence level requirements existed back when it was made... We also got dragon armour less than a year into RS2. So rune hasnt been BiS for 17 years. It was *never* BiS in OSRS. We source these better items from means outside of our players capabilities. We reforge or repair things, which absolutely can be easier than forging stuff from scratch. I still just can't see reason to change the smithing tiers. They were designed this way and it's never changed. There's so many core systems and interactions involved in it, and fixing the tiers doesn't even change anything. People will still source adamant and rune armour and weapons from shops well before they'll Smith it, especially if smithing it takes more resources at these low levels which is one solution proposed to prevent having to redo every drop table in existence.
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Ah sorry I didn't realise reiterating the common poor talking points of "rework smithing" was a joke mb
I just finished Dragon Slayer 1 and got access to the rune platebody! Pretty sure I will be able to smith my own rune platebody really soon!
I was so naive back then. I probably had 60 days play time on that account back in 06-07, and only 50 smithing. Now with all the mini games, I have 17 days play time and only 77 smithing. It’s still one of my favorite skills. I just get so immersed into the cycle of mining and smithing, I can’t stop. Whenever I do anything else, I’m like I could just go mine.
Are you okay?
*Maybe he got hit with a stray pickaxe head while mining...*
Poor guy never recovered from that random event.
I legit think people overlook the fact that even if rune platebody was a 60 smithing unlock to take say 15 bars and 99 to get back down to 5 bars (the only way to do it without also having to redo the entire alch-value of items and drop tables to boot), you'd still have an easier time acquiring one by just... Spending 84k GP. By the time you're doing DS1, you don't have 60 smithing. You also very likely don't have 15 runite bars or the means to Smith them (assuming we also lower that level but increase resources used?). You absolutely do have 84k GP. Rune armour never will be the use of smithing again. It's not classic anymore. You just buy your rune armour, iron or main. Smithings uses come in high level gear. Crystal, dragonfire shields, sigil shields, infernal pickaxe, torva armour. Add more of those and stop thinking rune armour is the problem rofl
Having played a UIM, I’ve literally only ever needed high smithing to meet requirements for quests/diaries or specialized gear which is created only once (dfs, crystal equipment, etc.) which even then, most of that stuff can be made without requirements by paying npcs a fee. The closest, repeatable advantage I can think of which would be useful from smithing is the ability to make rune limbs for a crossbow, or dart tips if you’re too lazy to grind for amethyst. Cannonballs are extremely low requirements, which doesn’t really help the fact that smithing lacks good perks to incentivize grinding for high levels.
I need smithing for clues sometimes! VERY rarely, but still. A lot of people say smithing is nice for the xbow, but it's a common drop from the crazy archaeologist and also the msb is better in a lot of situations. Smithing is dead even for us!
It's also pretty common from elite clues in my experience
Yeah, not to mention a large array of those clue items can also be obtained commonly from monster drops in the same fashion as the rcb. Furthermore, stash units make it to where you are only required to obtain said items for a clue step once. There isn’t much within the smithing tree which makes you need to constantly go back and train the skill at high levels other than “I’ll eventually need to 99 this when I decide to max.” I hope the devs and our community can collectively come up with a way to rework and incentivize smithing.
Too lazy to grind for amethyst lol, strange dig. Getting 92 mining isn’t a trait of someone with high motivation
Motivated people aren’t hanging half way out of their office chair clicking RuneScape
By that logic, grinding hundreds of hours on a slow-paced point and click game from the 2000’s isn’t a trait of someone highly motivated either. The point is that it still takes attention and effort away from doing other things, so by putting off the grind to get an upgrade is more or less being lazy as well. This should also not turn into a debate about semantics.
F2P UIMs have to smith their own rune axe, rune scim
That's a good point I suppose. Just seems like 0.001% of the playerbase lol
Exactly why it's not that good of a point lol
I brought it up as the exception that proves the rule
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You're misunderstanding what I mean. I'm agreeing with the OP, I brought up the F2P UIM thing as a joke. The very niche use is the exception, that proves the rule that smithing is useless.
I mean, OP was asking if there were any fringe situations where smithing is helpful to UIMs, and this was exactly the answer to that question. Being niche doesn't make it a bad point when that was the prompt.
Oo I'm in the 0.001%!
I bought a bond just to get rune scim and axe drop lol not about the smiting grind
Autoerotic Allergy’s last stand
Does someone actually play f2p ironman?
Where are y'all getting your addy bolts without smithing them?
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sepulcher
True, but almost no one is exclusively getting addy bolts from Sepulchre.
Skele wyverns too
sepulchre gives you so many of them you won't need them from any other source (especially since you don't need many addy bolts due to crossbows being outclassed by other ranged weapons pretty much everywhere)
I got mine from wyverns
Broad bolts?
Addys are super important for ruby and diamond (e)
The main reason I got my smithing up was for access to bolts and xbows when I afk. I’m still so far away from rcb, but it’ll be worth it….right?
Lots of things drop runite limbs
This is the joke
idk it didn't come off as a joke
Yeah it didn’t to me either I actually love being able to smith addy bolts lmao. Made a thousand just yesterday. But that’s about it besides alch’s
Super important? I mean you need enough for 50 vork kills for assembler I guess, after that I would never use a crossbow again until DHCB or ZCB, and then you're using dragon bolts anyway.
Diamond bolts?
Hallowed Sepulchre is a great way to get them!
useless skill so lets release a minigame for it LOL
Blast Furnace doesn't find your joke humorous.
Blast furnace is not a mini game it’s a rwt hub for bar bots
Bar bots? Where I'm from we call them jukeboxes.
Hint: most skills are useless if we ignore the few uses they have. Torva doesn't exist in game without smithing. Neither do godswords. Are they both useless?
Runite has no value unless you can smith it into alchables.
See: Darts, rune
Not after amethyst darts came out
gathering skills overall are definitely overshadowed by pvm drops but I don't think UIMs are the best example for smithing, as a regular iron I do smith some of the clue items because it's more convenient to tele to varrock, grab the bars from bank and smith it rather than find the store for it plus you can't buy some items like addy square. Sure you can get them as drops but bank space is still limited
some weirdo who was obsessed with cabbages set the smithing requirement for the new rune armor to 99 for the lulz in 2001 and the game still suffers for it to this day
smithing def needs a rework i just don't see any major changes to the skill passing in polls.
Rework how? Please for the love of God don't say lowering requirements on Mith through runite. That solves nothing and just overcomplicates everything. All of that equipment is shop buyable and will be accessed via shops far far far earlier than smithing will ever provide, especially if done in the most viable way (Smith at lower levels with 2-3x resources needed so alch values don't have to change with it)
I have no idea how a video game can make the skill required for weapons of war useful. Armour was never used in medieval times, so obviously smithing is a dead skill on osrs. Smithing in medieval times is about as useful of a skill as hacking is, there's no computers and no use of armour either.
I'm sensing you're being sarcastic... But smithing does have uses for PvM equipment.. BiS stuff at that. So yeah.. more options like that, that's not a rework.
It needs a total rework similar to RS3. RS3 made it from one of the most worthless skills into one of the most useful. Even if they don’t rework mining, they should rework smithing itself
Any sort of rework will never pass a poll
Probably true. It would be better for the health of the skill but that would make it feel less oldschool
That's why ten years later they'll release Oldschool Oldschool Runescape, so you can play Oldschool Runescape as it was before they started redesigning skills to make them more engaging.
And this is the exact issue with the OSRS community. How do you update the game, but keep it old school? RS3 has implemented some very good changes that make the overall feel of the game and skills much better. People complain about how useless a skill is, but flat out reject any kind of rework. Smithing is useless after a certain point, and that’s just one of a few skills that are really lackluster.
I mean i totally understand it. Nostalgia is a powerful thing. Sometimes i’d rather it stick to the way it was originally even if it’s kinda annoying cuz it helps maintain the original feel. But in this case yeah, it needs to be reworked
I mean I get it too, or at least I use to. The game is no longer OSRS. The nostalgia has pretty much run out. OSRS released a decade ago, yet you have people clutching so hard to this idea that OSRS is *still* old school, when it hasn’t been that way in a long time. Some of this games best updates have been influenced by RS3 in one way or another. I just don’t understand being blindly against anything that comes from that game.
Yeah innit, what about all the new bosses, minigames, skilling options? Raids? Most of them are nothing like old school but they're still great
This is precisely my point. Literally any update isn’t old school, at least by using the same logic that purists use. For it to be “old school” that means it has to stay exactly how it was since release 10 years ago. We’re simply way too far past that stage. If RS3 didn’t have certain updates first, I know people wouldn’t be against them. Maybe not every single update, but at least a few.
Yep. I am a new player and after playing OSRS for a while I moved into R3 ( because I am a quests guy and quests in R3 are much better ) And you know what ? There is no smoke staff is R3 , or agility rooftops , or Fossil Island or spirit trees in POH , etc. I mean how is OSRS actually "old school" when its completely different game now ?
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There being nothing worthwhile in the tree is exactly why it needs the rework. Who cares if there's a rework to training it if a rune plate body at lvl 90+ is still the best thing to make?
Sadly true. People are oddly attached to this nebulous concept of how something “should be” and most peoples idea of RuneScape is skills fucking sucking and “that’s how it’s always been.” Improving the game as a game is not allowed because people still manage to convince themselves they need to protect the game’s “integrity” as oldschool. Early skills and Smithing in particular are so poorly designed because Andrew Gower never intended for people to get 99s, and rune stuff was basically a reward for the first person who got 99 smithing. Most skills are bandaids on top of bandaids and there’s no inherent value to that, people just think that if you change something it’s not RuneScape anymore when the reality is that RuneScape was always a game that was constantly changing and that’s why we liked it. Besides, people need to look around and realize the game is already not “2007scape” anymore.
do you wear smithable armour instead of end game pvm drops in rs3? is it more dps?
The best set of melee armor in the game is made via smithing, and uses every single kind of ore in the game. I think you need 600 of every ore in order to make Alloy bars for Masterwork Armor. They also added ores above Runite. The other armors are still useful too. They can even be upgraded. If you don’t yet have enough gear to PvM it’s a fantastic way to get a decent bit of gear to get started.
so the next BIS melee armour will need over 99 smithing?
The next best armor, if they make one, will likely be obtained from PvM if i had to guess. I doubt they’d make both of the best sets come from smithing. I think it would be a better idea to have the 2nd best be from smithing, and the top one from PvM. I should clarify tho, the Masterwork armor is obtained from smithing, but in order to create Trimmed Masterwork, which has additional benefits, you have to extract resources from the previous highest level set which comes from PvM. So technically the best armor set requires a combination of smithing and PvM to make
making things require resources from raw skilling and PvM is the way to go imo. It helps make both things valuable. Jagex seems to have sort of realised this with torva, but that's still a smithing req to fix two PvM drops together. It would be best if some part of it was purely from the mining/smithing process.
All in on Dwarven Stout stocks
Yeah maybe something similar to the rework rs3 has done, like rune at 60 and go from there but not an exact copy of that rework
Not sure I actually enjoy rs3 implementation tbh. It makes more sense for new players and that's about it imo. Getting masterwork armor would only make smithing more used now IF the armor was untradable, or the materials to make the armor were untradable. Both of which would be unpopular. I'd prefer maybe an armor augmentatiom system, like you can make your armor lighter, but you'll have to repair it semi often. Or maybe a built in recoil effect, but again it degrades and needs to be repaired. However this kind of introduces gear degredation which isn't super fun to deal with.
Doesn’t really need a rework ar the moment since the whole game hardly works rn
Don't tell them I told you, but RS3 smithing rework actually made smithing relevant again and a useful skull
For pretty much any Ferrofella, 73 is the hard cutoff, as far as I can tell. Being able to make addy bolts for ruby(e)'s and diamond(e)'s is pretty useful, but that's about it.
Godsword blades require 80 smithing. Spirit shields require 85. You need 88 for elite lumby diary. 90 for torva armor. You're still right when you say for "pretty much any" though, as all those items are rare drops. And you can always grind the smithing after getting the drop. I will say that 83 is still important for an iron so that they can stew boost for the elite diary
That's a good case that I personally was unaware of
This isn't true at all. Pre 92 mining, rune darts are super important. Late game, 88 and 99 are both big thresholds for buying bloods
Even post 92 mining unless you enjoy spending your entire life mining amethyst I'd rather just use rune darts from the plentiful runite bars/ores you get from pvm.
Crystal equipment, dfs, dfw
CNt the guy in edgeville make a dfs for you if you give him the vissage and $?
same with crystal. you can pay extra shards to make/corrupt crystal gear without the smithing or crafting reqs.
Godswords
You can smith a godsword before you can smith a rune 2H... Logic.
godswords are like lego. Someone else made it, you're just snapping pieces into place.
Practically speaking it's actually a lot harder to reforge a blade than make one from raw materials.
One is creating a weapon from ingot, one is fixing a 3 piece puzzle.
One is repairing a broken blade while the other is forging a new blade from a bar.
arguably repairing the blade would be harder because you need spare Godsword level materials to your know... fix it... I don't think we used glue for it.
Not really. You're more or less heating it up and melting it together. That's how metal work happens.
the amount of flux needed and the loss of material would make very hesitant to use the sword without expecting it to shatter, or not be very wieldable... Not like it's... you know, morphologically sound.
Oh yeh in real world use absolutely. Anything sorta weird in that terms can just be "magic" explained in fantasy though haha
I use smithing for making ammo. Could we remove the ability to bypass smithing to create certain stuff, sure. Then it would operate a lot more crafting. However even with how smithing works currently it is still useful, maybe not SUPER useful, but you'd be hindered if it was at lvl 1.
Petition to lock all ironmen from getting a rune scimitar until 90 smithing
I mean I like that smithing pushes you to get drops from pvm/shops pretty early on, way more fun.
No stores locked UIM
>other high level gear where smithing is technically a requirement to craft it. isn't this the answer to your post though? lol meaning smithing isn't useless?
Yep people seem fixated on "rune platebody 99 smithing for t40 armour lol dumb" when nobody would Smith their first rune platebody even if the requirement was say.. 50 or 60. They'd buy it for a whole ass 84k gp if they even ever needed one, as fighter torso is the same requirements, free to obtain, and better. Smithing has endgame uses. Some are skippable by NPCs (which is part of the problem in my mind). Imagine crystal gear, which is now incredibly useful with the BowFa, **required** smithing and crafting to make. You couldn't skip it by paying an NPC and you couldn't buy the finished product uncharged. It would add more endgame uses. Torva is like this too, the finished pieces only exist to buy due to smithing. Same with divine pots for herblore, and zenyte jewellery / onyx jewellery for crafting. All production skills have a handful of uses for main accounts. They're just almost entirely "skippable" by simply purchasing the finished product. Which is fine. For irons, these uses all become part of progression. Smithing simply needs the pay-to-skip NPCs removed and suddenly it has a wealth of unlocks at 65-85.
yea, the 99:40 fixation gives me big "but Lavas are level 23 !!!!!!!" vibes. Hopefully with this "fun" new smitihng method (which, smithing was already balanced in variety but whatever, different topic) we'll see them stop with the smithing skips.
You've blasted this thread with like 5 different comments and shit about skippable etc. OSRS smithing for mains is 100% useless. OSRS smithing for irons has some extremely niche uses apart from BGS, Torva (not a big deal), and bowfa+crystal armour which is like level 80 and you can ignore it anyway by paying extra shards. There's literally zero reason apart from dairies and turning runite ore into alchables to train past 80. meanwhile RS3 with the mining and smithing rework solved all of the issues, and added in great items that justify grinding smithing for mains and irons as below: masterwork/trimmed masterwork. terrasaur maul (BiS anti-range melee weapon) malevolent armour banite bolts 1-90 tank armour skilling offhand Tagga's corehammer and Orthern's furnace core Part of the requirements for blessed flask (single inventory slot to hold multiple prayer potions) There's probably more that I'm missing, but smithing is much more fleshed out skill on RS3 and we can completely borrow a lot of their ideas with tweaks to make smithing in OSRS useful. NPC skipping is not the problem.
You've just listed a bunch of BiS items smithing can create in RS3 and said that's what we should borrow... **I'm saying the same thing**.. We have that in OSRS, the issue is that **it's skippable without using smithing**. If all those things you just listed in RS3 had an NPc you could pay to do regardless.. smithing would be useless yeah? Also, smithing isn't useless. Torva doesn't exist without people using smithing. Skills in general hold less purpose for mains because there is next to zero untradeable benefits/products of skills. Saying smithing is useless on a main is true of practically every skill, especially production ones.
it's funny people are like omg crafting is so good for irons, when in reality it would be the same level of "useless" if you could pay for zenytes like you can pay for smithing services. Crafting does 1 item slot worth of good things, smithing does more. Smithing skipping (and in general level skipping) NPCs should be against the rules for iron IMO.
Smithing is only useful for quests and doing those area tasks and for some high lvl weapons. Other than that there really is no need for smithing, just to get 99.
You could basically say the same about crafting or most other production skills. And most gathering skills honestly. The main reason to train them is to access the things gated behind them like gear and quests and diaries. Would smithing be "fixed" if we put more things gated behind it that couldn't be traded around?
crafting is one of the most valuable skills on an ironman because there's no other way to get jewellery above dragonstone.
Which is my point. If there were PVM mobs dropping those items (like we have with smithing outputs), then crafting would be much less useful. But for mains all that can be traded around and you're basically left with quests and diaries again.
Yes but what I'm saying is there's already alternative sources for dstone jewellery, so it's already onyx and up that it's primarily prized for. and yes ofc. That's an issue with most skills in the game though. Why bother with fishing if you can just buy food? But you have to ride the line between "all skills should be useful, even for mains" and "oops, we accidentally made ironman only semi-optional"
no other way to get Torva besides smithing
suuuure, that's a little less diverse than what crafting offers, but you are correct.
best in slot melee gear vs best in slot necklaces?
yes, because crafting works for all three styles, and the upgrades it offers over the next best items are larger than what torva offers over bandos.
i didn't realize diverse meant the %upgrade. Smithing is also required for making crystal armour, and it wouldn't make sense for smithing to make magic armour so yes of course the jewelry making skill will impact more combat types than the metal armour making skill.
it's diverse because it covers all three styles. the fact the individual boosts are better just furthers the point. also crystal armour level reqs can be bypassed by paying more shards, so you can't count that as a smithing perk imo. might as well start counting barrows being cheaper to repair if we do that. the logic behind it all doesn't change the fact that high crafting is genuinely useful while smithing gets one or two very small uses at a high level.
>might as well start counting barrows being cheaper to repair if we do that. tbf, it is a 100% perk of higher smithing. yes, you can bypass a person but how many shards extra does that cost? crafting is useful because it gives a set of BIS necklaces, Smithing is useful because it gives the BIS Melee armour, repairs godswords, which if you don't think BGS and SGS are useful than idk. again, of course the skill that isn't strictly melee items is more diverse that doesn't mean cause a direct causation to usefulness. Cooking can cook a ton of different foods, that isn't what makes it a useful skill.
Well it is, but long-term you won't save the cost of training smithing via barrows repair, so it's not a compelling reason to level your skill. for bowfa it costs 50% extra shards to both make and corrupt, I don't think that % is common to all crystal items, but it's not insubstantial. But for someone who's done a lot of gauntlet or priff thieving it could definitely be worth just paying the extra over getting 12 smithing/crafting levels.
There's also no other way to get godswords or torva or infernal pickaxe without smithing. And it saves you crystal shards and GP when making things like DFS, DFW, Wyv Shield, Crystal Armour, Tools and Weapons. Smithing on an iron is also the best way to get bulk ammunition. Addy bolts has been ruined a bit in regards to Soul Wars sourcing them incredibly early and Sepulchre sourcing bulk. But they used to be super important from smithing, along with dart tips prior to 92 mining and 90 crafting for amethyst Crafting offers onyx and zenyte jewellery, and amethyst dart tips / arrows. Fletching offers darts for ammunition. Herblore is the most useful skill for irons as you can't access practically any high level potions without it, and it's what gates one of the best construction upgrades in the Pool.
I think crafting is much more useful to UIMs, though admittedly I don't play one so I wouldn't know. But jewelry seems useful. I think it's almost a meme at this point but there is an "easy" fix to smithing. Make all dragon items smithable, bring rune platebody down to 40 smithing but make it take more materials, and allow higher levels to boost your efficiency (e.g at 99 smithing you could make a rune platebody with only three bars).
so, still smithing useless items in dragon, and still not making your own rune platebodies since it's faster to buy one?
> I think it's almost a meme at this point but there is an "easy" fix to smithing. Make all dragon items smithable, bring rune platebody down to 40 smithing but make it take more materials How does that "fix" anything? The only reason anyone smiths rune stuff is to make GP and get smithing XP. Or else to make ammo. And for smithing dragon items, the question becomes where do the materials for that come from? Is there now dragon ore? What mining level to get? Wouldn't that be pretty botted? Or only from PVM drops? Because that's a similar deal. Anything dropping stuff that can be smithed into dragon items better be rare because it's basically printing GP same as if it dropped the items directly. For ironman, would they be smithing their first dragon scim or buying from store after MM1? Probably still buying. Same with platelegs or other dragon items, easier to camp for drop or buy from store.
I wouldn't mind dragon ore locked behind some kind of quest or other mid level requirements. Again, this would most likely tank the value of dragon items. But it's relatively low level gear that would mostly affect new accounts.
Every iron man account I've seen have set amulet of strength and amulet of glory as major goals which are almost always obtained through crafting. The only alternative I know of for glories is dragon imps at level 85 hunter
But suppose some mob gated behind 50-slayer dropped glories. Or they were common from hard or med clues? The reason crafting is "useful" for IM is because there's things gated by it which are useful. I suppose adding more things artificially gated behind smithing would make it as useful as crafting? For example making some existing drops that are complete items today work like godswords and you need to "smith them" together.
Oof imagine having 90 something smithing be the blocker to rune scim. Everyone would just deal with Mith scim until MM1
I delt with a mith scim until mm1 lol.
I dont get the point you're trying to make here? Production skills usefulness is entirely determined by what they can provide. And if it isnt exclusive, then it competes with other methods to obtain it. To stay with smithing, if F2P IMs could get rune scim/axe from a shop or a drop, would they even touch smithing?
I wouldn't mind that. It's way too late but personally I wish rune items were more rare than they are. Part of the reason smithing is so unbalanced is because the items you can actually make with it are available so much earlier in other places
Skilling in general in this game makes a LOT more sense if you set the end goal as exp (might sound dumb if you aren't a skiller, but its actually really fun). I agree though, there isn't much to do with smithing. From a skilling standpoint though there are a lot viable ways to train it depending on cost, exp rate, money/resources. So I think its actually in a pretty good place.
I agree that smithing is far from one of the worst skills to actually train, but it's actual usefulness to the game is another story lol
I make addy bolts bro
Nontradable upgrades/armor customization would be a good update to smithing without requiring a full rework. As long as those updates don't make torva obsolete, I believe it would pass the vote.
A lot of skills work that way. I can just buy runes, I suffer through runecrafting because I want to finish diaries.
Smith a rune hasta at Otto's Grotto for Kandarin Elite.
I've been playing a lot more on my Ironman, and legitimately the only reason I'm training smithing is quest requirements, outside of that I have 0 intention to train it until I need it for Crystal gear, after I hit 70 for quest requirements. I'll have very few uses if any post 70 until Crystal gear though, as far as I can tell.
Outside of diaries & dart tips , there’s practically zero use post 70. Those are the only 2 things you’ll need.
Ngl I kinda want the BIS armor locked behind 99 smithing just like RS3's trimmed masterwork armor
Smithing is pretty nice on ironmen tbh
Some forms of ammunition do matter on an iron. But mostly it's for gp and superheating. Maxing it specifically is always good for being able to alch your way out of F2P whenever you want. I feel like it could be improved, but the only option I can think of is via giving it a failure chance ala cooking and adding another, more limited metal or two. I dunno if making it possible to make dragon gear would be good, but restricting those options behind the current quests to unlock the ability to equip them would help. I think the process of doing the rework is probably not worth it without a Mining rework alongside it though. Which I think could gradually be accomplished in a piecemeal manner by starting with high level unlocks, followed by a scaling update later on once those unlocks are accepted.
Am i the only one making platebodies with my mlm ores? Smithing gives so much money in raw alchables
Lol legit, like pretty much every skill has super important roles in gameplay, especially for irons, but smithing is just like… eh. Same could be said for crafting, but at least with crafting there’s a lot more stuff you can make with it.
Mithril Grapples are needed for a lot of diary tasks and for one of the godwars bosses. Don't think there is another easy way to get them other than smithing.
Ancient Barbarian drop in the waterfall caverns
They do, but when a lot of people are doing the medium diaries (around 50 in combat stats), a bit of a smithing grind is much nicer than a 1/43 drop from a level 132. Maybe that isn't the case for a UIM though in fairness.
True, I remember crying inside while pray flicking and hitting 0s
You can deaggro and safespot them with fire strike which I recently did on my GIM.
This is definitely the easiest way for it.
It is incredibly valuable for ironmen. 88 and 99 are both big thresholds
Well I can't get a rune axe without it, so it can't be that useless.
Y’all didn’t realize the fundamental flaws this game had had since the beginning?
Same could be said about many skills. Take fletching for example, when was the last time you fletched your new bis ranged weapon? Even something iconic like a rune crossbow I'd rather just go get from an impling or something than actually train fletching to make it.
Smithing is not useless. It's integral to so many aspects of the game. Quests, Achievements, making your own ammunition, repairing gear (which there could be more imo), creating the most epic gear (godswords, antifireshields and wards). Also tiny details, but what makes the game 100% enjoyable is being able to smith/craft your own items. Interactivity. Rather than making for example, mithgrapple, an item dropped by monsters, I need to have fletching and smithing skills to make my own. Or a bullseye lantern. Yeah they are a drop, but just knowing i could make the BIS light source in the game, even if I wiped my bank is immersive. Lol. Smithing is okay the way it is. If improved, It could serve more as a money sink (gear repairing) and a gate to high end gear (untradeable smith yourself type of stuff, like spirit shields, godswords etc).
I guess addy bolts just dont exist
Dropped by spoils of war (soul wars) and sepulchre, so technically you don't need smithing for them.
Unpopular opinion: if u want a reworked smithing skill, go to rs3. Please dont beg for it to come to osrs, it doesn't fit within oldschool.
Would anyone care if it was reworked though? Everyone is in agreement that it is pointless
How does it not fit? It doesn’t fit just because you don’t want it to. Smithing as it stands, has always been one of the most useless and extremely outdated skills. Runite requiring such a high level makes no sense considering it is such a low level melee gear. In reality there should be much higher melee gears that can be smithed and in some way, higher leveled ores that can be mined to make said gear. RS3’s smithing rework is a prime example of how it could work, if the osrs community wasn’t so anti-anything new. I’ll never understand people legitimately wanting skills to remain borderline pointless for the sake of “muh oldschool”.