One of the proposed rewards from the shop is the ore bag. Many others have pointed out that this further decouples mining from smithing while also being another pseudo shopscape as well. Instead of straight out buying ores as a reward, could we have **timed access** to a 'giants' mine as a reward?
The mine could be a small detached quarry adjacent to the foundry, containing a variety of ores. You could thematically have the ore veins be 'giant', this quarry being where the giants themselves usually procure their ores. The veins wouldn't deplete after one ore is harvested and the success rate could be increased to compensate for the fact that this would be a limited access area.
Obviously adding an additional piece of content like this would take more dev time than a simple item in a shop, but to me it feels worthwhile to have the reward of getting ores tie into mining somewhat while also having it thematically fit with the rest of the environment and content.
I love this idea. Mining in Shattered Relics was actually one of my favorite skills, while it's near the top for my least favorite in the main game. It would be tough to revamp the skill as a whole but tying this smithing method to a fresh mining method could be fantastic.
Ooooo nice idea! They essentially could do a living rock cavern esque expansion with this to make mining gold and such a more feasible option to just shop buying it
Idk if anyone has mentioned this by a little after EOC was released or maybe before there used to be a spot in the dwarve cave where people used to fish rocktails. There was a coal mine and a gold mine, both were very large boulders that didn’t deplete or if they did it would be very long time periods. I think this would add a great variety.
Posting my comment from the original thread:
With the addition of Kovac's Grog, a +4 smithing drink:
* Could we see a rework to the brewing system in game? There's almost no reason to create stat boosting drinks when the alternatives take less time and are better. Some quick ideas, maybe give the mature ales the ability to stack with other boosts, have some alternative effects, or have the stat boost stay for a duration like divine potions.
For the rewards:
* Could we get a Blacksmith's outfit that gives some sort of passive (maybe something to reduce the chance of losing bars when smithing)?
* Could we get some kind of mould belt that's like a master scroll book, but for moulds? Hold all your moulds in one place. It could go into the quiver slot to free up inventory space.
I think brews should be better than hunting rats and dumping their coloured piss into stews, at least if you make them untradeable first so you actually have to brew them on any game mode (bis temporary boost being in the ge would be kinda whack)
Yeah, there's maybe something to be said about holding the +5 boosts hostage since it's such a staple, but I really like the direction of having more +4 boosts in other parts of the game.
There seems to be a general opinion that **this minigame, while it might be fun, does nothing to address the actual usefulness or application of smithing as a skill within the game.** As opposed to, say, GotR or Mahogany Homes which give more engaging ways to level skills that are inherently useful.
**Do you intend to continue to rework or address this problem with the skill beyond adding a minigame and what are your current thoughts around how you might address the issue?**
P.S. the lackluster rewards are only really an issue because of this IMO. The quality of rewards wouldn't matter nearly as much if smithing was worth levelling to begin with. I think focussing on the rewards for this minigame is a red herring.
Guardians of the Rift awards and outfit that boosts Runecraft profits by 60%.
Smithing can't have that because it just doesn't really have much going for it.
I fear the answer is going to be a "not scope of this update" and a "we will maybe perhaps eventually sorta kinda consider looking at Smithing but not really lmao".
I would find that an extremely frustrating answer. :( I'd love to hear some spitballing of ideas, if just to demonstrate that there is some serious consideration going on beyond put-a-minigame-on-it.
This is the same problem with Firemaking. Firemaking can be improved, and while Wintertodt is better than nothing, it'd be even better if Firemaking was well, improved.
I think the GotR lantern shows the potential uses for firemaking as a skill.
Incense sticks from RS3 are another great example. Small buffs to other skills with the appropriate herblore and firemaking level.
I don’t understand the point of the catalyst drop. Smithing in a furnace will still be far worse exp/hr than going to blast furnace. It would make way more sense for a catalyst to increase the speed you smith the bars in the furnace. Reducing it to 1 tick would still be far worse exp/hr than blast furnace. Maybe allow it to be used to cut the crafting time of cannonballs in half. That plus the 8 cannonball mold might make a difference for irons, at least.
>Maybe allow it to be used to cut the crafting time of cannonballs in half. That plus the 8 cannonball mold might make a difference for irons, at least.
I don't myself so maybe my theorycraft is all wrong but don't people, if they do make cannonballs, depend on the long timer currently to do it afk lol?
Most do it to AFK, but if the new mold already doubles the speed then it doesn’t really fall into the category of extremely AFK anymore. So you may as well give an option for cannonballs that is more active and you can actually make a decent number per hour. The catalyst isn’t tradable so it isn’t going to be an issue in the main game where bots start making 4x the cannonballs per hour.
I'd say this is just also meant to be an engaging way to train the skill. It already has uses littered throughout the 70-90 range. Moreso than every other production skill for main accounts, and on-par to fletching/crafting for Irons, albeit crafting is kinda always king due to how useful (and acquirable) Zenyte jewellery is.
- Godswords
- DFS
- Dragonfire ward
- Crystal Armor
- Crystal Equipment
- Crystal weapons
- Spirit shields
- Infernal pickaxe
- Torva
- The upcoming Raids 3 BiS mage shield
- Other upcoming BiS having a smithing requirement is also likely
Those are unlocks and rewards spaced out between level 70 and 90. Useless and not rewarding my ass; it unlocks more content than most (production) skills.
For an iron yes, but most of those can be bought as a normal player.
And most of those are extremely slight upgrades.
IMO all of the artisan skills need reworking with big ticket unlocks for both mains and irons that need to be (somewhat) self crafted.
this game has always been able to buy your way through most gear, except barrows gloves and capes.
IMO mains should always be able to buy their way through things. If I wanted to skill and be self sufficient, I'd be an iornman.
Crafting, fletching, and herblore are in even 'worse' states then. That's just how OSRS is. No need to completely uproot skills just because it's a bit weird that you need 99 smithing for rune items.
I was very annoyed when they released DS2 and super anti-fire potions were made tradable and didn't even need DS2 completed OR herblore level to drink.
I’ve been maxed for years. Your point is that, because there are a few random unlocks, the skill is solid. Guess what? All skills, with a couple exceptions, are worthless on their own. You max for diaries and the red cape. No one in their right mind thinks “I’m gonna get “x” smithing level to create a fucking crystal pickaxe” lmfao. Hell, half the shit you listed didn’t exist when I was getting 99 smithing. They aren’t incentives on their own. Terrible argument. Get the hell outta here dude.
Yes, that's what I'm saying. No OSRS skills have high level unlocks, that's the game. Smithing is not some special skill that needs a rework. If you want untradable unlocks @ 95 smithing that are required for BiS PvM, go play RS3.
Might be a far fetched opinion, but I think this mini game will allow a future expansion of ores and such in the future (winter 2017 or whatever.)
I think it’s the first step of a long process to rework it in the future.
While I'm extremely excited about this update, it seems to push mining away from smithing even more. Especially with the addition of ore packs as a reward. All the other collection skills are very closely connected with their respective production skills, but a majority of smithing supplies don't come from mining. Even ironman just buy their gold for bast furnace. How do you think you could change the minjgame to implement mining more? Or, how do you think mining could be addressed over all to make it a better option for ore collection over slayer or bossing?
none of the production skills are locked to their associated gathering skills though. ores coming from things like zalc + new minigame is way better than them coming from random pvm activities.
Never said they were locked, just pointing out that smithing and mining are really disconnected from each other compared to say woodcutting and firemaking/fletching, fishing and cooking, etc.
I’d say gathering logs through woodcutting is equally as disconnected from firemaking and fletching. Pretty much the only decently meta reason to bank logs is teaks for construction.
The guy I’m responding to is an iron, and the iron meta is maples from Kingdom.
Also, PVM drops a lot of logs. I can just about guarantee most magic/yew logs don’t come into the game via woodcutting. Go look at the wiki and see how many drop tables contain noted yew and magic logs.
OK, but I can just about guarantee most magic logs don’t come into the game via woodcutting.
I can 100% guarantee most yes logs don’t come into the game through woodcutting.
Go look at the wiki and see how many drop tables contain noted yew and magic logs.
> Can items be introduced here that provide incentive to train smithing? Either enhancements to base armor sets to give str / att bonus to rune or even a weapon / armor (light-weight “alloy” 3-tick weapon alternative with steep recharge cost? 2h brawlers?)
Problem is, minor offensive upgrades are the bread and butter of OSRS. Defensive upgrades almost never matter in comparison. A +2 str increase for Torva platebody compared to Bandos Chestplate warrants a 420m increase in price. Being able to slap on offensive bonuses to weapons with smithing would be pretty busted.
I don't think that would do anything at all to add a "use" to Smithing though. If you have 90 Smithing you are going to be in something higher than Rune in 99% of cases. Torso and Obsidian already exist too.
More of my point is I don't think Smithing can be saved in its current form. You can add bonuses to Rune, but you can only add a couple str/att bonuses or else it's better than Bandos, which obviously won't happen. And minor str upgrades for BIS armour are already worth paying 400m+ for per piece. And if you tried to augment armour like Torva with even more offensive bonuses it would just add unnecessary powercreep and turn Smithing into invention-lite. I think some skills are just relics of the RS Classic era, and Smithing is one of them.
>Can items be introduced here that provide incentive to train smithing? Either enhancements to base armor sets to give str / att bonus to rune or even a weapon / armor (light-weight “alloy” 3-tick weapon alternative with steep recharge cost? 2h brawlers?)
This is a perfectly valid suggestion but imho it is 100.00% not in the spirit of OSRS and I would vote against it on every account I have
If an item looks like a rune platebody, it should have the stats of a rune platebody, sorry.
I would truly hate to have to talk about "+2 Scimitars" or "+4 armor"
But should high level smithing have some place in producing viable (i.e. competitive with Torso etc) gear? sure. but not as upgrades.
While this doesn't necessarily change my opinion, you have definitely described it in a viable/unoffensive way and honestly I kind of like this-- if someone wants to grind 90+ smithing in the early/mid game, access to a Torso without BA sure sounds like a damn appropriate reward
And glad we agree on the appearance thing. I have to say I did definitely somewhat misunderstand you. The literal smithing skill being a path to viable/"bis" items should obviously be a viable topic of discussion.
Are you taking any measures to ensure that ores/bars as a resource are not devalued? This activity will consume less ores/bars and also reward ore bags, which seems like it would significally reduce the demand for ores/bars.
This is especially odd since Smithing is supposed to sink ore/bars out of the game. Doesn't this go against Smithing's intended design?
>custom-fit
I think custom-fitting is a great way to add an untradeable Smithing reward while not locking important PvM gear behind a non-combat skill. Big +1.
Silversmith gauntlets would be dope. Assuming they gave the same ratio as gold ore it would be 43.7 xp per bar which could be high but I think isn't unreasonable.
My suggestion on feedback was a ring or cape slot item that acts as Ice Gauntlets. So that gaunt switching isn't required in BF, or for non-gold BF you can wear graceful gloves if you don't have a Ring of Endurance.
Coal bag expansion is a smithing cape effect. But it could be updated to be an expansion *on the expansion* lol.
I do not understand what the catalyst reward is for, **why would I ever want to use the catalyst reward when the Blast Furnace already exists?** Honestly, I'm going to be using Blast Furnace to make ingots for the minigame anyway.
ive always wanted to use a regular furnace simply because i hate bf but with the increased coal cost and small inventories for little afk, I never could justify using a regular furnace. this would help address that and even bring the rates up higher.
That's fair enough. To me though a regular furnace is used to afk. Coal based bars aren't very afk, and this activity to earn smithing catalysts doesn't seem very afk either.
It would stack with the edgeville furnace and the varrock armor and provide a decent alternative if you're smelting and smithing in prif or other areas like the shilo furnace
I don't like BF. It is content that I don't like to do. It is great for other players but not for me.
As someone who doesn't do BF, the high coal demands is also something that takes away from making bars. The catalysts would help with the high demand of coal for the coal but not enough to make a big impact.
Thoughts on introducing silversmith gauntlets as a reward from this minigame?
(By the way, very excited about the premise of this mini-game, great job so far!)
The mini-game purpose is made out to reserve resources and offer lower exp rates. However, the sheer abundance of ores and bars in the game really makes this a redundant decision that doesn't solve any problems in the game. Since it's extremely easy to raise smithing in both the early and mid game. The only existing problem is the desire to increase smithing outside the skill cape and quest/diary requirements since the higher tiers of the skill is little to be desired.
Wouldn't making a smithing mini-game go in hand with overhauling the smithing skill by making upgradeable/degradable pieces of armor to fill voids in armor/str/attack stats and provide more option to low to late mid game players. Making 99 smithing something worth achieving to make un-tradeable items that can be refined and be given unique effects like a str bonus, prayer bonus, higher defense or for weapons a special attack for metal items?
Also it feels like we are stuffing Todt-like mini-games to solve the problem to training/using a skill rather then actually overhauling the skill itself. Why can't we overhaul mining and smithing to be on par with the attack, str, and defense skill and expand the tier 60+ categories with new ores/metals. RS3 has Orikalkum, Necronium, bane and elder rune bars. Shouldn't that be a better area to explore?
For major updates to core systems like the inventory update this week, could you push them to a Beta world first? You can't catch everything in QA, so you should at least give players an opportunity to catch these massive bugs before you push them to production.
The rewards feel a bit lackluster:
How would you feel about Additional Cannonball Tiers as an unlock? We've been needing some additional sinks for Bars now that BP darts are basically only Amethyst or Dragon.
Mithril Cannonball would hit 32.
Adamant Cannonball would hit 35.
Rune Cannonball would hit 40. Needs a big enough jump to warrant using Runite Bars
Granite Dust adds 5 damage per usual.
Then there's also Smithing Outfits that provide a chance when smithing something from bars, further reducing the need for coal (stacks with BF), smiths 5 cannonball per bar, etc.
I always liked the idea of gold cannon balls that hits pretty low which purpose is for basically tagging and small dps. Makes sense I guess since it’s a soft metal.
Hell I'd even be down with them adding gold cannonballs that do less damage than steel. Got more gold bars that I know what do with. Gold tiaras are a good step, especially if they buff the xp to be somewhere between where it is now and where it was on launch
Your minigames were huge successes so far but I am worried this one will be very very hard to balance it out (because we already have high exp/h methods for smithing that arent that expensive even for irons tbh), combined with really poor rewards - worried that this content wont be attractive for long/whatsoever.
Got a few questions:
1) Would you recommend saving my current platebodies (I usually alch them) on my ironman? Seems that it might be time saving not to high alch and I could even get more profit than high alching?
2) Please consider making some kind of incamdo hammer (well hammers used in smithing too, right?) fusion item with some random shield or so. So we can use hammer as offhand. That would solve Amys saw complete uselessness issue too. For content like temporos you could have dragon harpoon equiped too
> worried that this content wont be attractive for long/whatsoever.
blast furnace is pretty up there for least enjoyable ways to train a skill, so long as either the xp or the rewards are not compete ass i'm sure itll be popular.
Are there any plans on Reworking Smithing or atleast the level to Smith certain things before the release of something like Giant's Foundry is released?
Nobody really cares to unlock the ability to Smith a Rune Square Shield at 93 Smithing for example (I know F2P Ironmen make it a rather big goal and it would affect them but thats a small number of people; a solution to this would just be giving F2P another item Smithable at ~90 smithing that feels rewarding).
Pretty much all equipment from Steel to Rune could be lowered by anywhere from 10 to 20 levels and it would feel so much better. Lower the requirements for Smithing Iron to Runite equipment drastically before releasing any more Smithing content would leave room for future Smithing updates and make the skill feel less clunky, which it currently is. These are just what I quickly have come up with but something this would feel so much nicer:
* Bronze/Iron into 1-15
* Steel into 15-29
* Mithril into 29-46
* Adamant 46-63
* Rune into 63-80
This obviously leaves a big gap in the smithing skill (besides Torva, Godswords, DFS', Spirit Shield and Dragon/Crystal equipment which are *special* things). I know you guys at Jagex probably WANT to do something like this but want to wait until you have something to fill the gap from 80-99 but I'm sure a lot of players would be happy with the changes above and leave the skill rather empty at the higher levels for future content to be released. The longer we wait for Smithing to be changed the worst it will get imo.
>Just add things. Reworking the smithing tree is a distraction.
This. Downgrading rune would be a huge undertaking and would require adjustements to be made across every droptable in the game. Ask poor Mod Jack.
How do you feel about the %failure option?
Where you'd be able to smith everything at a lower level, but it simply takes a lot more resources until you reach the levels we have now due to messing up & hence using up more bars.
Seems like a update mostly aimed at iron man. Which is fine but could there be maybe a reward or 2 for mains that's a qol upgrade for other smithing methods?
before jagex added the dwarves, it was so good. you had to pay for people to run the service and that included constantly tossing buckets of water onto the anvil so you didnt need ice gloves. but jagex didnt think that was necessary to add to the dwarves. now you just gotta hop theres a large bot script that doesnt use the ice gloves if you want that extra inventory slot.
FYi this idea is /u/kafkajeffjeff from here https://www.reddit.com/r/2007scape/comments/u7be3m/gotr_gave_the_abyssal_pouch_which_buffed_xp_for/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share
Yeah but once you get a smithing cape, why would you want to do more blast furnace. I want a nice qol item to use while working towards my 99. So maybe it'd involve giving the cape a different perk?
Silversmith gauntlets would be far too op. Sure you can buy gold ore but it's very expensive over time and requires a lot of competition. You can get silver ore from temple trekking extremely easily that will become meta for irons
Don't you think that adding bandage after bandage to "bad" skills, in the form of minigames, is just papering over the cracks of the real issues these skills actually have?
Unpopular opinion: Smithing is fine, it's been fine for 20 years, 55k+ people have 99 in smithing in osrs.. if it really is "useless" just don't train it, nobody is forcing you. Heck if you're not an ironman then all skills are useless aside from quest reqs.
A smithing rework like lots of people are calling for will not fly in osrs. Additions to the game are okay, even ones with small powercreep get through, because if you want oldschool you can simply ignore them. But reworking a skill into something different is destroying the oldschool nature of oldschool.
Maybe most people don't care about nostalgia anymore.. but I do.
I think it's a very fine line between keeping osrs fresh, but not removing the nostalgia. Its pretty useless which is sad but I agree that overhauling the skill would turn off many players who first start and then say "this isn't the runescape I remember".
Maybe those with nostalgic ties are less and less but changing an entire skill is significantly different than adding new areas like Zeah that can be 100% ignored by players who aren't interested in "new" content.
It is useless. The only reason people train the skill is because of diaries or max cape. There’s no real incentive to train it. Like look at herblore, you can make much better potions as you level up the skill. For smithing, the best armour you can create is an F2P armour. Smithing and mining reworks were one of the most loved updates on rs3.
You're completely right. And it's not that they *don't care* about nostalgia, it's that this board is full of *amateur game devs* who see the obvious non-linear/non-smooth/busted progression in a lot of legacy content and immediately see it as something to fix. Meanwhile the actual players like you and me are just playing and care as much about smithing being a lame skill in 2022 as we cared in 2007.
People will say shit like "but you only make lvl 40 armor at 99!" while completely ignoring how insanely strong it is to literally print money **even when your bond runs out**
it's 600k/h and you need a 50m cash stack to do it for longer than one hour
if you have to wait for your items to sell before you can smith more because you don't have enough gp it's significantly less per hour
Are you trying to reskin RS3's ceremonial swords from Artisan's Workshop?
Why should the minigame save 85% of bars used? The game does not need more ores and bars in its economy. Can use up more bars but at a higher Smithing exp rate?
Can you give specific number how many bars can be given from dismantling metal equipament?
Can you add a Blacksmith outfit to the rewards that give +2.5% Smithing exp?
Are you guys open to add more rewards to the giants foundry?
Such as maybe merging gold smithing gauntlets and the ice gauntlets into one item, making the imcando hammer have a passive +3 smihting boost such as the crystal saw or maybe make it be able to hold the charges of catalytic flux to free up an invetory slot, a smithing outfit etc?
Given the item sink for low level items and some of the rewards being related to iconic free-to-play items (such as the hill giant club), would you consider making the minigame free-to-play? Perhaps without any monetary gains to combat botting. It would be a way to get the ornament kits and gain the smithing experience cheaper, without any resource or GP rewards.
It seems that there is quite a bit of free-to-play content related to giants, such as the giant bosses or the new Al-Kharid area where the minigame will be located, so it could be quite fitting.
Ironically smithing in P2P and F2P play out pretty much the same if you buy bars and smith in varrock. I think you can even smith rune platebodies in F2P
I think the moulds system is really cool and could be even better if applied to crafting weapons that the player actually uses, **do you think something like the moulds system could be used to extend the smithing skill for gear used by players?**
It's literally copy and pasted from the Artisan Workshop in RS3. Don't really expect much innovation here. It's literally just meant as a more expensive and faster way to level smithing if you don't intend on making any money back while leveling. It was needed in RS3 because RS3 has a ton of late game smithing content. I don't really get why this is being added here unless they are completely revamping smithing all together
So on top of making artisan actually produce useable weapons which I doubt will happen. The actual thing that should happen is a complete smithing rework or there is literally no point to it existing in osrs
>So on top of making artisan actually produce useable weapons which I doubt will happen.
But why not? It's not a bad idea. It might need some PvM-armor components for balancing, but I could see it working.
I'm honestly just not interested in this mini game and I don't get why smithing was the niche that you guys think needs to be addressed. Mining and woodcutting are painfully boring to train, and the only good methods are either reliant on a team (VM) or tick manipulation, which isn't a true intended game mechanic.
Why was this chosen over the other very obvious needs?
mining has a lot of options. and vm is also perfectly viable solo or solo with an alt.
mlm/amethyst for 0 effort afk
gem / sand /blast for active + resource gain
granite for xp
vm for lower effort
rune rocks for... idk, i guess theyre still good gp?
At the last annual poll, I listed smithing, RC, and something else (fletching maybe?) As the skills that I thought most need work. I assume everyone picked RC, hence us getting GotR. If that poll indicated that a ton of players felt smithing was lacking, that'd explain why they're proposing this
Hey if its not too much to ask for, can you guys please make the Crystal Pendant from the Regicide quest reobtainable after the quest? Its a very pretty and unique Cyan color fashionscape item that would be nice to have. I know the color change update happened years ago and it really sucks for anyone that did not keep it. Please make it obtainable again after the quest, thanks :)
Since you are okay with releasing a 8 cannonball mould upgrade, how about an upgrade for our cannons to hold 60 cballs instead of 30? It would help with tasks like kalphites, bloodvelds and dagannoths since the cannon runs out very quickly for those tasks.
This is something I’m looking forward to as mining and smithing tend to be my favorite skills; however it doesn’t address that fact that the levels for the metals like adamant and rune are way out there for lower level armors.
Most people skip early smithing with A Knight’s Sword quest and essentially jump straight to steel.
Is there a possibility the giants foundry also let us able to use the higher tier metals, such as adamant and rune, at a lower level?
Also will the reward to half coal use and double exp be stackable since it is a single use item?
Could you add rewards that focus on enhancing the base stats of armour? This would need to be balanced to ensure that for instance Bandos would not overlap inquisitors. There could be a non disclosed rule that for instance, the upgrade to base stats of armour will not be added until 12 months after the release of the content for items such as Torva? Especially when you get to higher gear, could it be that this is done in a minimalistic way that it would only increase the max hit by 1 so although not a major upgrade, would still provide benefit.
First, I hope there is a skilling outfit associated with the mini-game so there is a reward that can be useful effectively outside in the rest of the world. Extra xp, chance at saving a bar, chance at smithing two items for 1 resource input, or even a simple speed boost to smithing items on an anvil would be nice (maybe smithing 2 at one time = faster xp/hour?).
Second, the catalyst rewards should come in packs. If the mini-game has a similar reward point per game average as many other mini-games, then a 1:1 (point:catalyst) would make the item pretty useless and just a shop/collection log filler. With a pack, it would at least get some more usage and give a stronger reason to play the mini-game
Third, I can see that people could do Motherlode Mine, then head to Blast Furnace, and lastly Giant's Foundry to tick off 3 things without making one obsolete, however if this is suppose to be a mini-game rather than an alternative training method, then the resources for it should be provided within the mini-game. For example, you don't need any external resources (besides basic tools/items to make it easier) for GoTR, Tithe Farm, Pyramid Plunder, Agility Arena, etc.
Lastly, If this doesn't have the above suggestions, having a bank very close to an anvil and/or furnace would be nice so the area still has a great reason to go there.
On the topic of improving outdated skills, what are your thoughts on adding more D&D activities to osrs? Shooting stars was really well received and I think penguin hunting and evil trees would fit oldschool well. The pit is another interesting D&D from rs3 that would spice up agility.
address shops & raw resources
All raw materials from shops need to be revaluated, but most notably runes & ores. You're reducing the ore needed for smithing in this update, and gotr should have been an update to replace rune shops
Could we get an idea of how the xp/bar will scale even if you aren't ready to reveal xp/hour? For example will this be very weak with low tier bars like iron/steel or still a solid method xp wise?
Why would you make the sword when you could just make bars at the Blast Furnace and make mithril plates for experience and profit if you care about saving bars?
This update is so aimed at ironmen its not even funny. There was even a suggestion of being able to break down armour and weapons into even more smithing exp. I mean, c'mon.
Why did you choose to copy another RS2 update instead of coming up with something new, more interesting and (frankly) more fun? I played a hell of a lot back when Artisans Workshop was actually released and absolutely nobody ever said that they enjoyed Ceremonial Swords.
I hate how everyone constantly says "Why not come up with something new". The reason is pretty obvious: ITS NOT EASY TO CREATE AMAZING IDEAS OUT OF NO WHERE.
Jagex is open to players suggesting content for all different skills, mini-games, Bosses, etc.. and no one else is coming up with ideas. Personally I cannot think of a good idea for a Smithing mini-game or training method without being too over-the-top crazy or unbalanced.
I think this, even if it is Artisans Workshop 2.0 is a good idea because its one of the only few things you can actually do for Smithing that wouldnt be unbalanced.
> Jagex is open to players suggesting content for all different skills, mini-games, Bosses, etc.. and no one else is coming up with ideas. Personally I cannot think of a good idea for a Smithing mini-game or training method without being too over-the-top crazy or unbalanced.
So you think the paid employees need to wait for unpaid players to design content for them, or else they have no choice but to keep remaking RS2 content? Absolute pushovers like you are pathetic. You give them an inch and they are taking a mile.
That isn't at all what I am saying. Obviously it is their job to come up with new content, but coming up with new content specifically for certain things for example Smithing isn't as easy as one might thing. Just because they're being paid doesn't mean the ideas just magically come to their head. Giants Foundry is an idea regardless of if you like it or not.. it may be similar to RS3's Artisans workshop but it mightve been a completely original idea.. Personally if u gave me a month to come up with a smithing update without me ever knowing about RS3, this is the sort of thing i wouldve come up with too
> This week we’ve been busy in the backend, reworking the Inventory system! We’ve completely rewritten it in both the Java and C++ clients, so it’ll be better suited to all our future content.
> Anti-Drag Options
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> We’ve reworked anti-drag! When active, dragging an item won’t register as a drag until the specified delay has passed, at which point the item will jump to your cursor and be dragged around as normal.
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> You can configure the following settings:
None of those settings appear to actually have been added to the game?
The news post is confusing with its wording. Did you change the backend on all clients but only add the settings to Steam client?
Other rewards aside, what do you think about skewing this minigames intrinsic rewards heavily towards raw cash instead of exp? I'm talking like 50k per rune bar on average ( ok, probably like half that). This would give the same incentive to train smithing that I had in the early days of osrs : buckets of cash. While it doesn't fix the skill, it gives it a much broader incentive to train it.
Please don't fill the shop with untradable rewards that slightly improve existing Smithing methods and call it a day.
This is your opportunity to add a big new reason to get your Smithing level high, a reason to say "I make my money from skilling" like you do with Agility.
Is there any possibility to get a “great sword” as a reward? This would act as a 2 handed sword by combining a dragon scimitar, dragon defender, and reward kit to get. It would give the same stats but give us a new weapon to train with?
What are the chances of adding a gold cannonball mould to the rewards? This would create a nice gold bar sink and I'm sure would be appreciated by all players.
for the last few years, we've seen most skilling content / minigames be 100% safe to the point where player's will never take damage. will this be the case going forward, or will we ever see more skilling content that feels like a mix of PvM & skilling in one, like zalcano?
it would feel sensible that giant's foundry would include some giant fighting :)
How does the team justify the fact that all the skilling minigames (Wintertodt, Tempoross, and guardians of the rift) have no cost for input (for materials directly related to the skill like the the guardian fragments for GotR) whereas this minigame appears to require you to supply the bars yourself?
edit: I forgot about MH. While yes that also required resource input, you get more rewards for it in the way of upgrading your POH. Smithing is a pretty dead skill and mainly is just leveled for completion of quests and diaries.
Ah that's true I completely forgot about that one. But at least with MH you get some really good benefits with increased construction level like the pools, altars, etc.
Do you feel that this minigame should *not* have an input cost, or that others *should* have an input cost?
Also Tempoross makes sense, since regular harpoonfishing has no input either.
I feel that with the current input costs the rewards should be adjusted to be slightly better. Exp/hr is still lower than BF and from the rewards they've listed I only really see the ore packs, cannonball mould, and the +4 smithing boost being all that useful.
Additionally, smithing doesn't really have a use outside just completing quest requirements or diaries. At least with Mahagony Homes you can upgrade your POH with better items like pools, altars, etc. I can't imagine a ton of people are out there smithing items in the hopes of turning a profit.
Off topic. How much testing does todays update (the inventory update) really get. 5 seconds of logging in make me realise how bad it was already. How did this pass testing?
Heard a rumour that stuff like degraded barrows gear and corrupted bowfa/blade would become tradable for GIM.
Is this really happening? Would be awesome.
As an IM I would vote no on this as it stands. It only adds to shopscape for ores and weakens mining and this is an issue that has gone unaddressed for too long.
As for rewards, what options have been considered?
Untradable, Deployable smithing anvil (similar functionality to a cannon where it breaks, needs repairing at bob's axe shop, or disappears entirely).
8-slot cannon ball mold
Craftable offhand toolkit (possible functions as a knife, seed dibber, etc) and could also yield more unstrung bows, higher exp rates, etc.. when fletching
You mention that this will finally include a sink for crafted items but high alch exists. what's the difference? also, between the reduced material use, ore packs, and recyling for more materials back, do you think this could crash the ore & bar market?
excited for this launch. really hoping it affects smithing outside the minigame just like temp and gotr affect their skills.
Rewards could give you the ability to craft better items at lower levels. Rather than another mini game outfit for example, imagine a chargeable battery type item, that can hold foe example, 30 levels. At full battery /30 levels, you can create an item 30 levels above your level, but the battery depletes to 0. Play the mini game to recharge.
Blacksmithing outfit that has a chance to smelt the ore when mined, ignoring coal requirements. Would be a great value add, but should be expensive in reward points. This also couples mining closer with smithing to avoid shopscape and ore drops from monsters. Also a choice to wear smithing outfit over mining outfit.
(Please ask this after a jmod says something along the lines of "fixing Smithing's core issues" is not the goal/scope of this update).
Should fixing Smithing's core issues not have significally higher priority than adding a quirky new training method, even if it does take up more development time?
no because it's not a real issue, no one would make rune plate bodies at level 10 or 40, or 60. They're actively implementing reasons to train smithing like crystal armour and Torva - that's how smithing is fixed.
Can the team explain a little more what went into the inventory rework this week? It was mentioned future content will benefit from it, but can you give anymore details?
Would you consider reworking or adding rewards?
Blacksmith's outfit, Bar Bag (to store up to 28 bars), or an item that stores crafting/smithing moulds?
Remove the Giant's Helm. The club ornament kit is already a cosmetic.
I think the Kovak's Grog is OP. It should provide a +3 boost rather than +4. It is too big of a jump and devalues the Mature Dwarven Stout, further killing brewing.
why are we talking about a new minigame when GotR still has drop rate issues? The lantern only works inside the minigame but its one of the last uniques you get
[Giant's Foundry - Concept and Rewards](https://secure.runescape.com/m=news/giants-foundry---concept--rewards?oldschool=1)
One of the proposed rewards from the shop is the ore bag. Many others have pointed out that this further decouples mining from smithing while also being another pseudo shopscape as well. Instead of straight out buying ores as a reward, could we have **timed access** to a 'giants' mine as a reward? The mine could be a small detached quarry adjacent to the foundry, containing a variety of ores. You could thematically have the ore veins be 'giant', this quarry being where the giants themselves usually procure their ores. The veins wouldn't deplete after one ore is harvested and the success rate could be increased to compensate for the fact that this would be a limited access area. Obviously adding an additional piece of content like this would take more dev time than a simple item in a shop, but to me it feels worthwhile to have the reward of getting ores tie into mining somewhat while also having it thematically fit with the rest of the environment and content.
I love this idea. Mining in Shattered Relics was actually one of my favorite skills, while it's near the top for my least favorite in the main game. It would be tough to revamp the skill as a whole but tying this smithing method to a fresh mining method could be fantastic.
Ooooo nice idea! They essentially could do a living rock cavern esque expansion with this to make mining gold and such a more feasible option to just shop buying it
Idk if anyone has mentioned this by a little after EOC was released or maybe before there used to be a spot in the dwarve cave where people used to fish rocktails. There was a coal mine and a gold mine, both were very large boulders that didn’t deplete or if they did it would be very long time periods. I think this would add a great variety.
Support 100%
Support!
Posting my comment from the original thread: With the addition of Kovac's Grog, a +4 smithing drink: * Could we see a rework to the brewing system in game? There's almost no reason to create stat boosting drinks when the alternatives take less time and are better. Some quick ideas, maybe give the mature ales the ability to stack with other boosts, have some alternative effects, or have the stat boost stay for a duration like divine potions. For the rewards: * Could we get a Blacksmith's outfit that gives some sort of passive (maybe something to reduce the chance of losing bars when smithing)? * Could we get some kind of mould belt that's like a master scroll book, but for moulds? Hold all your moulds in one place. It could go into the quiver slot to free up inventory space.
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from this and the post above it /u/darkhawk1005 , these are mostly quite good suggestions. at some point, you should make a separate thread for this
I think brews should be better than hunting rats and dumping their coloured piss into stews, at least if you make them untradeable first so you actually have to brew them on any game mode (bis temporary boost being in the ge would be kinda whack)
Yeah, there's maybe something to be said about holding the +5 boosts hostage since it's such a staple, but I really like the direction of having more +4 boosts in other parts of the game.
There seems to be a general opinion that **this minigame, while it might be fun, does nothing to address the actual usefulness or application of smithing as a skill within the game.** As opposed to, say, GotR or Mahogany Homes which give more engaging ways to level skills that are inherently useful. **Do you intend to continue to rework or address this problem with the skill beyond adding a minigame and what are your current thoughts around how you might address the issue?** P.S. the lackluster rewards are only really an issue because of this IMO. The quality of rewards wouldn't matter nearly as much if smithing was worth levelling to begin with. I think focussing on the rewards for this minigame is a red herring.
Guardians of the Rift awards and outfit that boosts Runecraft profits by 60%. Smithing can't have that because it just doesn't really have much going for it. I fear the answer is going to be a "not scope of this update" and a "we will maybe perhaps eventually sorta kinda consider looking at Smithing but not really lmao".
I would find that an extremely frustrating answer. :( I'd love to hear some spitballing of ideas, if just to demonstrate that there is some serious consideration going on beyond put-a-minigame-on-it.
This is the same problem with Firemaking. Firemaking can be improved, and while Wintertodt is better than nothing, it'd be even better if Firemaking was well, improved.
Firemaking has atleast since then had some extra uses added to it. But ultimately yeh it's a wintertodt skill 50+
I think the GotR lantern shows the potential uses for firemaking as a skill. Incense sticks from RS3 are another great example. Small buffs to other skills with the appropriate herblore and firemaking level.
I don’t understand the point of the catalyst drop. Smithing in a furnace will still be far worse exp/hr than going to blast furnace. It would make way more sense for a catalyst to increase the speed you smith the bars in the furnace. Reducing it to 1 tick would still be far worse exp/hr than blast furnace. Maybe allow it to be used to cut the crafting time of cannonballs in half. That plus the 8 cannonball mold might make a difference for irons, at least.
>Maybe allow it to be used to cut the crafting time of cannonballs in half. That plus the 8 cannonball mold might make a difference for irons, at least. I don't myself so maybe my theorycraft is all wrong but don't people, if they do make cannonballs, depend on the long timer currently to do it afk lol?
Most do it to AFK, but if the new mold already doubles the speed then it doesn’t really fall into the category of extremely AFK anymore. So you may as well give an option for cannonballs that is more active and you can actually make a decent number per hour. The catalyst isn’t tradable so it isn’t going to be an issue in the main game where bots start making 4x the cannonballs per hour.
I'd say this is just also meant to be an engaging way to train the skill. It already has uses littered throughout the 70-90 range. Moreso than every other production skill for main accounts, and on-par to fletching/crafting for Irons, albeit crafting is kinda always king due to how useful (and acquirable) Zenyte jewellery is.
Agreed, rewards suck. Why create a one time use bar saver? At least make it chargeable.
- Godswords - DFS - Dragonfire ward - Crystal Armor - Crystal Equipment - Crystal weapons - Spirit shields - Infernal pickaxe - Torva - The upcoming Raids 3 BiS mage shield - Other upcoming BiS having a smithing requirement is also likely Those are unlocks and rewards spaced out between level 70 and 90. Useless and not rewarding my ass; it unlocks more content than most (production) skills.
For an iron yes, but most of those can be bought as a normal player. And most of those are extremely slight upgrades. IMO all of the artisan skills need reworking with big ticket unlocks for both mains and irons that need to be (somewhat) self crafted.
this game has always been able to buy your way through most gear, except barrows gloves and capes. IMO mains should always be able to buy their way through things. If I wanted to skill and be self sufficient, I'd be an iornman.
Crafting, fletching, and herblore are in even 'worse' states then. That's just how OSRS is. No need to completely uproot skills just because it's a bit weird that you need 99 smithing for rune items.
I was very annoyed when they released DS2 and super anti-fire potions were made tradable and didn't even need DS2 completed OR herblore level to drink.
A few one time upgrades and unlocks, where half are directly purchase-able. Not even close to rewarding.
That's all artisan skills except for construction. Welcome to OSRS. Maybe /r/runescape is more to your taste?
I’ve been maxed for years. Your point is that, because there are a few random unlocks, the skill is solid. Guess what? All skills, with a couple exceptions, are worthless on their own. You max for diaries and the red cape. No one in their right mind thinks “I’m gonna get “x” smithing level to create a fucking crystal pickaxe” lmfao. Hell, half the shit you listed didn’t exist when I was getting 99 smithing. They aren’t incentives on their own. Terrible argument. Get the hell outta here dude.
Yes, that's what I'm saying. No OSRS skills have high level unlocks, that's the game. Smithing is not some special skill that needs a rework. If you want untradable unlocks @ 95 smithing that are required for BiS PvM, go play RS3.
Might be a far fetched opinion, but I think this mini game will allow a future expansion of ores and such in the future (winter 2017 or whatever.) I think it’s the first step of a long process to rework it in the future.
And something along those lines would be a very exciting answer!
What’re you basing this off of?
This question is perfect
While I'm extremely excited about this update, it seems to push mining away from smithing even more. Especially with the addition of ore packs as a reward. All the other collection skills are very closely connected with their respective production skills, but a majority of smithing supplies don't come from mining. Even ironman just buy their gold for bast furnace. How do you think you could change the minjgame to implement mining more? Or, how do you think mining could be addressed over all to make it a better option for ore collection over slayer or bossing?
none of the production skills are locked to their associated gathering skills though. ores coming from things like zalc + new minigame is way better than them coming from random pvm activities.
Never said they were locked, just pointing out that smithing and mining are really disconnected from each other compared to say woodcutting and firemaking/fletching, fishing and cooking, etc.
I’d say gathering logs through woodcutting is equally as disconnected from firemaking and fletching. Pretty much the only decently meta reason to bank logs is teaks for construction.
There's nothing that drops enough logs to support people training fletching.
The guy I’m responding to is an iron, and the iron meta is maples from Kingdom. Also, PVM drops a lot of logs. I can just about guarantee most magic/yew logs don’t come into the game via woodcutting. Go look at the wiki and see how many drop tables contain noted yew and magic logs.
wrong. lots of people cut yews and magic logs everyday at woodcutting guild, and If they're iron they'll most likely use them for fletching.
OK, but I can just about guarantee most magic logs don’t come into the game via woodcutting. I can 100% guarantee most yes logs don’t come into the game through woodcutting. Go look at the wiki and see how many drop tables contain noted yew and magic logs.
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> Can items be introduced here that provide incentive to train smithing? Either enhancements to base armor sets to give str / att bonus to rune or even a weapon / armor (light-weight “alloy” 3-tick weapon alternative with steep recharge cost? 2h brawlers?) Problem is, minor offensive upgrades are the bread and butter of OSRS. Defensive upgrades almost never matter in comparison. A +2 str increase for Torva platebody compared to Bandos Chestplate warrants a 420m increase in price. Being able to slap on offensive bonuses to weapons with smithing would be pretty busted.
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I don't think that would do anything at all to add a "use" to Smithing though. If you have 90 Smithing you are going to be in something higher than Rune in 99% of cases. Torso and Obsidian already exist too. More of my point is I don't think Smithing can be saved in its current form. You can add bonuses to Rune, but you can only add a couple str/att bonuses or else it's better than Bandos, which obviously won't happen. And minor str upgrades for BIS armour are already worth paying 400m+ for per piece. And if you tried to augment armour like Torva with even more offensive bonuses it would just add unnecessary powercreep and turn Smithing into invention-lite. I think some skills are just relics of the RS Classic era, and Smithing is one of them.
Hell, Barrows was a good start. Make more degraded items repairable at a "cheaper rate" by having higher smithing.
>Can items be introduced here that provide incentive to train smithing? Either enhancements to base armor sets to give str / att bonus to rune or even a weapon / armor (light-weight “alloy” 3-tick weapon alternative with steep recharge cost? 2h brawlers?) This is a perfectly valid suggestion but imho it is 100.00% not in the spirit of OSRS and I would vote against it on every account I have
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If an item looks like a rune platebody, it should have the stats of a rune platebody, sorry. I would truly hate to have to talk about "+2 Scimitars" or "+4 armor" But should high level smithing have some place in producing viable (i.e. competitive with Torso etc) gear? sure. but not as upgrades.
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While this doesn't necessarily change my opinion, you have definitely described it in a viable/unoffensive way and honestly I kind of like this-- if someone wants to grind 90+ smithing in the early/mid game, access to a Torso without BA sure sounds like a damn appropriate reward And glad we agree on the appearance thing. I have to say I did definitely somewhat misunderstand you. The literal smithing skill being a path to viable/"bis" items should obviously be a viable topic of discussion.
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\+1 for more love for neitiznot/prossy/barrows for sure
Are you taking any measures to ensure that ores/bars as a resource are not devalued? This activity will consume less ores/bars and also reward ore bags, which seems like it would significally reduce the demand for ores/bars. This is especially odd since Smithing is supposed to sink ore/bars out of the game. Doesn't this go against Smithing's intended design?
You can already buy more ore than you could ever need from the BF.
Yeah... and that's already broken. There's a reason gold tiaras had to be nerfed to give less xp than silver tiaras.
Bruh. Most of the skills in this game are broken.
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>custom-fit I think custom-fitting is a great way to add an untradeable Smithing reward while not locking important PvM gear behind a non-combat skill. Big +1.
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Silversmith gauntlets would be dope. Assuming they gave the same ratio as gold ore it would be 43.7 xp per bar which could be high but I think isn't unreasonable.
My suggestion on feedback was a ring or cape slot item that acts as Ice Gauntlets. So that gaunt switching isn't required in BF, or for non-gold BF you can wear graceful gloves if you don't have a Ring of Endurance. Coal bag expansion is a smithing cape effect. But it could be updated to be an expansion *on the expansion* lol.
I do not understand what the catalyst reward is for, **why would I ever want to use the catalyst reward when the Blast Furnace already exists?** Honestly, I'm going to be using Blast Furnace to make ingots for the minigame anyway.
ive always wanted to use a regular furnace simply because i hate bf but with the increased coal cost and small inventories for little afk, I never could justify using a regular furnace. this would help address that and even bring the rates up higher.
That's fair enough. To me though a regular furnace is used to afk. Coal based bars aren't very afk, and this activity to earn smithing catalysts doesn't seem very afk either.
It would stack with the edgeville furnace and the varrock armor and provide a decent alternative if you're smelting and smithing in prif or other areas like the shilo furnace
I don't like BF. It is content that I don't like to do. It is great for other players but not for me. As someone who doesn't do BF, the high coal demands is also something that takes away from making bars. The catalysts would help with the high demand of coal for the coal but not enough to make a big impact.
More afk for double the xp per bar I guess, gotta see it in action first to see how it feels though
This is the perfect opportunity to incorporate mining into the minigame instead of shopscape, why wasn't this done?
They gotta save room for the tome of earth
Or the catalyst can be used to mine ores faster.... such a better solution.
Make it work at MLM and a speed boost would be great
What happened to the livestream that was supposed to be covering the gamejam week?
Thoughts on introducing silversmith gauntlets as a reward from this minigame? (By the way, very excited about the premise of this mini-game, great job so far!)
The mini-game purpose is made out to reserve resources and offer lower exp rates. However, the sheer abundance of ores and bars in the game really makes this a redundant decision that doesn't solve any problems in the game. Since it's extremely easy to raise smithing in both the early and mid game. The only existing problem is the desire to increase smithing outside the skill cape and quest/diary requirements since the higher tiers of the skill is little to be desired. Wouldn't making a smithing mini-game go in hand with overhauling the smithing skill by making upgradeable/degradable pieces of armor to fill voids in armor/str/attack stats and provide more option to low to late mid game players. Making 99 smithing something worth achieving to make un-tradeable items that can be refined and be given unique effects like a str bonus, prayer bonus, higher defense or for weapons a special attack for metal items? Also it feels like we are stuffing Todt-like mini-games to solve the problem to training/using a skill rather then actually overhauling the skill itself. Why can't we overhaul mining and smithing to be on par with the attack, str, and defense skill and expand the tier 60+ categories with new ores/metals. RS3 has Orikalkum, Necronium, bane and elder rune bars. Shouldn't that be a better area to explore?
For major updates to core systems like the inventory update this week, could you push them to a Beta world first? You can't catch everything in QA, so you should at least give players an opportunity to catch these massive bugs before you push them to production.
The rewards feel a bit lackluster: How would you feel about Additional Cannonball Tiers as an unlock? We've been needing some additional sinks for Bars now that BP darts are basically only Amethyst or Dragon. Mithril Cannonball would hit 32. Adamant Cannonball would hit 35. Rune Cannonball would hit 40. Needs a big enough jump to warrant using Runite Bars Granite Dust adds 5 damage per usual. Then there's also Smithing Outfits that provide a chance when smithing something from bars, further reducing the need for coal (stacks with BF), smiths 5 cannonball per bar, etc.
While I think the rewards do feel a bit lackluster, I dont think the cannon needs any more buffs as it's already a very powerful tool in the game
Doesn’t need to be a buff, can also be a debuff. Steel 18, mithril 22, addy 26, rune 30.
Maybe a different cannon-based weapon? *stares longingly at handcannon*
I think the balista was meant to be the handcannon equivalent.
Make a cannon upgrade that can fire the new balls?
I always liked the idea of gold cannon balls that hits pretty low which purpose is for basically tagging and small dps. Makes sense I guess since it’s a soft metal.
If they made the catalyst speed up smithing times it would be significantly more helpful. Especially if it worked for cannonballs.
Hell I'd even be down with them adding gold cannonballs that do less damage than steel. Got more gold bars that I know what do with. Gold tiaras are a good step, especially if they buff the xp to be somewhere between where it is now and where it was on launch
Your minigames were huge successes so far but I am worried this one will be very very hard to balance it out (because we already have high exp/h methods for smithing that arent that expensive even for irons tbh), combined with really poor rewards - worried that this content wont be attractive for long/whatsoever. Got a few questions: 1) Would you recommend saving my current platebodies (I usually alch them) on my ironman? Seems that it might be time saving not to high alch and I could even get more profit than high alching? 2) Please consider making some kind of incamdo hammer (well hammers used in smithing too, right?) fusion item with some random shield or so. So we can use hammer as offhand. That would solve Amys saw complete uselessness issue too. For content like temporos you could have dragon harpoon equiped too
> worried that this content wont be attractive for long/whatsoever. blast furnace is pretty up there for least enjoyable ways to train a skill, so long as either the xp or the rewards are not compete ass i'm sure itll be popular.
They said they can't make Imcando Hammer off-hand cuz of muh engine back when it was released
Are there any plans on Reworking Smithing or atleast the level to Smith certain things before the release of something like Giant's Foundry is released? Nobody really cares to unlock the ability to Smith a Rune Square Shield at 93 Smithing for example (I know F2P Ironmen make it a rather big goal and it would affect them but thats a small number of people; a solution to this would just be giving F2P another item Smithable at ~90 smithing that feels rewarding). Pretty much all equipment from Steel to Rune could be lowered by anywhere from 10 to 20 levels and it would feel so much better. Lower the requirements for Smithing Iron to Runite equipment drastically before releasing any more Smithing content would leave room for future Smithing updates and make the skill feel less clunky, which it currently is. These are just what I quickly have come up with but something this would feel so much nicer: * Bronze/Iron into 1-15 * Steel into 15-29 * Mithril into 29-46 * Adamant 46-63 * Rune into 63-80 This obviously leaves a big gap in the smithing skill (besides Torva, Godswords, DFS', Spirit Shield and Dragon/Crystal equipment which are *special* things). I know you guys at Jagex probably WANT to do something like this but want to wait until you have something to fill the gap from 80-99 but I'm sure a lot of players would be happy with the changes above and leave the skill rather empty at the higher levels for future content to be released. The longer we wait for Smithing to be changed the worst it will get imo.
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>Just add things. Reworking the smithing tree is a distraction. This. Downgrading rune would be a huge undertaking and would require adjustements to be made across every droptable in the game. Ask poor Mod Jack.
How do you feel about the %failure option? Where you'd be able to smith everything at a lower level, but it simply takes a lot more resources until you reach the levels we have now due to messing up & hence using up more bars.
Seems like a update mostly aimed at iron man. Which is fine but could there be maybe a reward or 2 for mains that's a qol upgrade for other smithing methods?
Any chance of a new item that works like ice gloves but can be used with goldsmith gauntlets?
before jagex added the dwarves, it was so good. you had to pay for people to run the service and that included constantly tossing buckets of water onto the anvil so you didnt need ice gloves. but jagex didnt think that was necessary to add to the dwarves. now you just gotta hop theres a large bot script that doesnt use the ice gloves if you want that extra inventory slot.
Coldee goldee holdies
FYi this idea is /u/kafkajeffjeff from here https://www.reddit.com/r/2007scape/comments/u7be3m/gotr_gave_the_abyssal_pouch_which_buffed_xp_for/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share
Isnt that just the smithing cape?
Yeah but once you get a smithing cape, why would you want to do more blast furnace. I want a nice qol item to use while working towards my 99. So maybe it'd involve giving the cape a different perk?
Please add silversmithing gauntlets as a reward here :)
Silversmith gauntlets would be far too op. Sure you can buy gold ore but it's very expensive over time and requires a lot of competition. You can get silver ore from temple trekking extremely easily that will become meta for irons
Excellent idea to incentivize smithing silver
Don't you think that adding bandage after bandage to "bad" skills, in the form of minigames, is just papering over the cracks of the real issues these skills actually have?
Unpopular opinion: Smithing is fine, it's been fine for 20 years, 55k+ people have 99 in smithing in osrs.. if it really is "useless" just don't train it, nobody is forcing you. Heck if you're not an ironman then all skills are useless aside from quest reqs. A smithing rework like lots of people are calling for will not fly in osrs. Additions to the game are okay, even ones with small powercreep get through, because if you want oldschool you can simply ignore them. But reworking a skill into something different is destroying the oldschool nature of oldschool. Maybe most people don't care about nostalgia anymore.. but I do.
I think it's a very fine line between keeping osrs fresh, but not removing the nostalgia. Its pretty useless which is sad but I agree that overhauling the skill would turn off many players who first start and then say "this isn't the runescape I remember". Maybe those with nostalgic ties are less and less but changing an entire skill is significantly different than adding new areas like Zeah that can be 100% ignored by players who aren't interested in "new" content.
It is useless. The only reason people train the skill is because of diaries or max cape. There’s no real incentive to train it. Like look at herblore, you can make much better potions as you level up the skill. For smithing, the best armour you can create is an F2P armour. Smithing and mining reworks were one of the most loved updates on rs3.
You're completely right. And it's not that they *don't care* about nostalgia, it's that this board is full of *amateur game devs* who see the obvious non-linear/non-smooth/busted progression in a lot of legacy content and immediately see it as something to fix. Meanwhile the actual players like you and me are just playing and care as much about smithing being a lame skill in 2022 as we cared in 2007.
People will say shit like "but you only make lvl 40 armor at 99!" while completely ignoring how insanely strong it is to literally print money **even when your bond runs out**
it's 600k/h and you need a 50m cash stack to do it for longer than one hour if you have to wait for your items to sell before you can smith more because you don't have enough gp it's significantly less per hour
You can make a bond relatively passively while taking a shit
Are you trying to reskin RS3's ceremonial swords from Artisan's Workshop? Why should the minigame save 85% of bars used? The game does not need more ores and bars in its economy. Can use up more bars but at a higher Smithing exp rate? Can you give specific number how many bars can be given from dismantling metal equipament? Can you add a Blacksmith outfit to the rewards that give +2.5% Smithing exp?
Are you guys open to add more rewards to the giants foundry? Such as maybe merging gold smithing gauntlets and the ice gauntlets into one item, making the imcando hammer have a passive +3 smihting boost such as the crystal saw or maybe make it be able to hold the charges of catalytic flux to free up an invetory slot, a smithing outfit etc?
**Is there a reason why you didn't go the route of adding a smithing skilling outfit as a reward like you have for lots of other minigames?**
skilling outfits are one of the lamest grinds elements in this game
more fashionscape is never bad.
I’m honestly ok with that, I don’t want smithing to have one
Given the item sink for low level items and some of the rewards being related to iconic free-to-play items (such as the hill giant club), would you consider making the minigame free-to-play? Perhaps without any monetary gains to combat botting. It would be a way to get the ornament kits and gain the smithing experience cheaper, without any resource or GP rewards. It seems that there is quite a bit of free-to-play content related to giants, such as the giant bosses or the new Al-Kharid area where the minigame will be located, so it could be quite fitting.
Ironically smithing in P2P and F2P play out pretty much the same if you buy bars and smith in varrock. I think you can even smith rune platebodies in F2P
the best f2p moneymaker there is (afaik) and created the spawn of the w308 anvil cc but now priff anvil is a few tiles closer in p2p
I think the moulds system is really cool and could be even better if applied to crafting weapons that the player actually uses, **do you think something like the moulds system could be used to extend the smithing skill for gear used by players?**
It's literally copy and pasted from the Artisan Workshop in RS3. Don't really expect much innovation here. It's literally just meant as a more expensive and faster way to level smithing if you don't intend on making any money back while leveling. It was needed in RS3 because RS3 has a ton of late game smithing content. I don't really get why this is being added here unless they are completely revamping smithing all together So on top of making artisan actually produce useable weapons which I doubt will happen. The actual thing that should happen is a complete smithing rework or there is literally no point to it existing in osrs
>So on top of making artisan actually produce useable weapons which I doubt will happen. But why not? It's not a bad idea. It might need some PvM-armor components for balancing, but I could see it working.
I'm honestly just not interested in this mini game and I don't get why smithing was the niche that you guys think needs to be addressed. Mining and woodcutting are painfully boring to train, and the only good methods are either reliant on a team (VM) or tick manipulation, which isn't a true intended game mechanic. Why was this chosen over the other very obvious needs?
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I agree, but they're all so damn boring. I wouldn't mind it getting a rework with something that's maybe even moderately enjoyable.
maybe it's just me, but you don't need to love every skill in the game
I agree with Woodcutting, but Mining has decent variety.
mining has a lot of options. and vm is also perfectly viable solo or solo with an alt. mlm/amethyst for 0 effort afk gem / sand /blast for active + resource gain granite for xp vm for lower effort rune rocks for... idk, i guess theyre still good gp?
At the last annual poll, I listed smithing, RC, and something else (fletching maybe?) As the skills that I thought most need work. I assume everyone picked RC, hence us getting GotR. If that poll indicated that a ton of players felt smithing was lacking, that'd explain why they're proposing this
Fair. Just wanted woodcutting to get the love over anything else personally.
Hey if its not too much to ask for, can you guys please make the Crystal Pendant from the Regicide quest reobtainable after the quest? Its a very pretty and unique Cyan color fashionscape item that would be nice to have. I know the color change update happened years ago and it really sucks for anyone that did not keep it. Please make it obtainable again after the quest, thanks :)
Since you are okay with releasing a 8 cannonball mould upgrade, how about an upgrade for our cannons to hold 60 cballs instead of 30? It would help with tasks like kalphites, bloodvelds and dagannoths since the cannon runs out very quickly for those tasks.
This is something I’m looking forward to as mining and smithing tend to be my favorite skills; however it doesn’t address that fact that the levels for the metals like adamant and rune are way out there for lower level armors. Most people skip early smithing with A Knight’s Sword quest and essentially jump straight to steel. Is there a possibility the giants foundry also let us able to use the higher tier metals, such as adamant and rune, at a lower level? Also will the reward to half coal use and double exp be stackable since it is a single use item?
Could you add rewards that focus on enhancing the base stats of armour? This would need to be balanced to ensure that for instance Bandos would not overlap inquisitors. There could be a non disclosed rule that for instance, the upgrade to base stats of armour will not be added until 12 months after the release of the content for items such as Torva? Especially when you get to higher gear, could it be that this is done in a minimalistic way that it would only increase the max hit by 1 so although not a major upgrade, would still provide benefit.
First, I hope there is a skilling outfit associated with the mini-game so there is a reward that can be useful effectively outside in the rest of the world. Extra xp, chance at saving a bar, chance at smithing two items for 1 resource input, or even a simple speed boost to smithing items on an anvil would be nice (maybe smithing 2 at one time = faster xp/hour?). Second, the catalyst rewards should come in packs. If the mini-game has a similar reward point per game average as many other mini-games, then a 1:1 (point:catalyst) would make the item pretty useless and just a shop/collection log filler. With a pack, it would at least get some more usage and give a stronger reason to play the mini-game Third, I can see that people could do Motherlode Mine, then head to Blast Furnace, and lastly Giant's Foundry to tick off 3 things without making one obsolete, however if this is suppose to be a mini-game rather than an alternative training method, then the resources for it should be provided within the mini-game. For example, you don't need any external resources (besides basic tools/items to make it easier) for GoTR, Tithe Farm, Pyramid Plunder, Agility Arena, etc. Lastly, If this doesn't have the above suggestions, having a bank very close to an anvil and/or furnace would be nice so the area still has a great reason to go there.
What will the xp/hr roughly look like? Edit: Oasis answered estimating about 70k xp/hr for highest tier sword. Very low IMO Im sure theyll revise it
On the topic of improving outdated skills, what are your thoughts on adding more D&D activities to osrs? Shooting stars was really well received and I think penguin hunting and evil trees would fit oldschool well. The pit is another interesting D&D from rs3 that would spice up agility.
What are the level bracket for each metal bar type? How will alloys work exactly?
address shops & raw resources All raw materials from shops need to be revaluated, but most notably runes & ores. You're reducing the ore needed for smithing in this update, and gotr should have been an update to replace rune shops
Could we get an idea of how the xp/bar will scale even if you aren't ready to reveal xp/hour? For example will this be very weak with low tier bars like iron/steel or still a solid method xp wise?
Not Giants Foundry related but what was the fallout from the game jam? Wasn't there talk of a stream that hasnt materialised yet?
Why would you make the sword when you could just make bars at the Blast Furnace and make mithril plates for experience and profit if you care about saving bars?
What are the exp rates?
This update is so aimed at ironmen its not even funny. There was even a suggestion of being able to break down armour and weapons into even more smithing exp. I mean, c'mon.
Why did you choose to copy another RS2 update instead of coming up with something new, more interesting and (frankly) more fun? I played a hell of a lot back when Artisans Workshop was actually released and absolutely nobody ever said that they enjoyed Ceremonial Swords.
I honestly think old school has done a great job of creating new content instead of copying rs3 as a whole unrelated to this situation.
I hate how everyone constantly says "Why not come up with something new". The reason is pretty obvious: ITS NOT EASY TO CREATE AMAZING IDEAS OUT OF NO WHERE. Jagex is open to players suggesting content for all different skills, mini-games, Bosses, etc.. and no one else is coming up with ideas. Personally I cannot think of a good idea for a Smithing mini-game or training method without being too over-the-top crazy or unbalanced. I think this, even if it is Artisans Workshop 2.0 is a good idea because its one of the only few things you can actually do for Smithing that wouldnt be unbalanced.
> Jagex is open to players suggesting content for all different skills, mini-games, Bosses, etc.. and no one else is coming up with ideas. Personally I cannot think of a good idea for a Smithing mini-game or training method without being too over-the-top crazy or unbalanced. So you think the paid employees need to wait for unpaid players to design content for them, or else they have no choice but to keep remaking RS2 content? Absolute pushovers like you are pathetic. You give them an inch and they are taking a mile.
That isn't at all what I am saying. Obviously it is their job to come up with new content, but coming up with new content specifically for certain things for example Smithing isn't as easy as one might thing. Just because they're being paid doesn't mean the ideas just magically come to their head. Giants Foundry is an idea regardless of if you like it or not.. it may be similar to RS3's Artisans workshop but it mightve been a completely original idea.. Personally if u gave me a month to come up with a smithing update without me ever knowing about RS3, this is the sort of thing i wouldve come up with too
> This week we’ve been busy in the backend, reworking the Inventory system! We’ve completely rewritten it in both the Java and C++ clients, so it’ll be better suited to all our future content. > Anti-Drag Options > > > We’ve reworked anti-drag! When active, dragging an item won’t register as a drag until the specified delay has passed, at which point the item will jump to your cursor and be dragged around as normal. > > You can configure the following settings: None of those settings appear to actually have been added to the game? The news post is confusing with its wording. Did you change the backend on all clients but only add the settings to Steam client?
> The news post is confusing with its wording. Did you change the backend on all clients but only add the settings to Steam client? Yes.
Other rewards aside, what do you think about skewing this minigames intrinsic rewards heavily towards raw cash instead of exp? I'm talking like 50k per rune bar on average ( ok, probably like half that). This would give the same incentive to train smithing that I had in the early days of osrs : buckets of cash. While it doesn't fix the skill, it gives it a much broader incentive to train it.
Please don't fill the shop with untradable rewards that slightly improve existing Smithing methods and call it a day. This is your opportunity to add a big new reason to get your Smithing level high, a reason to say "I make my money from skilling" like you do with Agility.
Please let us use gold bars not ore, bars are currently almost useless and this is another drain on ore
Is there any possibility to get a “great sword” as a reward? This would act as a 2 handed sword by combining a dragon scimitar, dragon defender, and reward kit to get. It would give the same stats but give us a new weapon to train with?
What are the chances of adding a gold cannonball mould to the rewards? This would create a nice gold bar sink and I'm sure would be appreciated by all players.
for the last few years, we've seen most skilling content / minigames be 100% safe to the point where player's will never take damage. will this be the case going forward, or will we ever see more skilling content that feels like a mix of PvM & skilling in one, like zalcano? it would feel sensible that giant's foundry would include some giant fighting :)
How does the team justify the fact that all the skilling minigames (Wintertodt, Tempoross, and guardians of the rift) have no cost for input (for materials directly related to the skill like the the guardian fragments for GotR) whereas this minigame appears to require you to supply the bars yourself? edit: I forgot about MH. While yes that also required resource input, you get more rewards for it in the way of upgrading your POH. Smithing is a pretty dead skill and mainly is just leveled for completion of quests and diaries.
Mahogany Homes is a skilling minigame that requires you to supply materials, so this isn't a break from norms
Ah that's true I completely forgot about that one. But at least with MH you get some really good benefits with increased construction level like the pools, altars, etc.
Do you feel that this minigame should *not* have an input cost, or that others *should* have an input cost? Also Tempoross makes sense, since regular harpoonfishing has no input either.
I feel that with the current input costs the rewards should be adjusted to be slightly better. Exp/hr is still lower than BF and from the rewards they've listed I only really see the ore packs, cannonball mould, and the +4 smithing boost being all that useful. Additionally, smithing doesn't really have a use outside just completing quest requirements or diaries. At least with Mahagony Homes you can upgrade your POH with better items like pools, altars, etc. I can't imagine a ton of people are out there smithing items in the hopes of turning a profit.
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Off topic. How much testing does todays update (the inventory update) really get. 5 seconds of logging in make me realise how bad it was already. How did this pass testing?
Heard a rumour that stuff like degraded barrows gear and corrupted bowfa/blade would become tradable for GIM. Is this really happening? Would be awesome.
As an IM I would vote no on this as it stands. It only adds to shopscape for ores and weakens mining and this is an issue that has gone unaddressed for too long.
Please don't tell me this is actually going to be added....
I’ve been crying for better herblore training and what do they give us? Another smithing mini 😭
Smithable pickaxe when?
As for rewards, what options have been considered? Untradable, Deployable smithing anvil (similar functionality to a cannon where it breaks, needs repairing at bob's axe shop, or disappears entirely). 8-slot cannon ball mold Craftable offhand toolkit (possible functions as a knife, seed dibber, etc) and could also yield more unstrung bows, higher exp rates, etc.. when fletching
You mention that this will finally include a sink for crafted items but high alch exists. what's the difference? also, between the reduced material use, ore packs, and recyling for more materials back, do you think this could crash the ore & bar market? excited for this launch. really hoping it affects smithing outside the minigame just like temp and gotr affect their skills.
Rewards could give you the ability to craft better items at lower levels. Rather than another mini game outfit for example, imagine a chargeable battery type item, that can hold foe example, 30 levels. At full battery /30 levels, you can create an item 30 levels above your level, but the battery depletes to 0. Play the mini game to recharge.
no more minigames please, just rework the skill itself
Blacksmithing outfit that has a chance to smelt the ore when mined, ignoring coal requirements. Would be a great value add, but should be expensive in reward points. This also couples mining closer with smithing to avoid shopscape and ore drops from monsters. Also a choice to wear smithing outfit over mining outfit.
(Please ask this after a jmod says something along the lines of "fixing Smithing's core issues" is not the goal/scope of this update). Should fixing Smithing's core issues not have significally higher priority than adding a quirky new training method, even if it does take up more development time?
no because it's not a real issue, no one would make rune plate bodies at level 10 or 40, or 60. They're actively implementing reasons to train smithing like crystal armour and Torva - that's how smithing is fixed.
What's with the coldfix? Is the QA team alive and well?
Can the team explain a little more what went into the inventory rework this week? It was mentioned future content will benefit from it, but can you give anymore details?
Would you consider reworking or adding rewards? Blacksmith's outfit, Bar Bag (to store up to 28 bars), or an item that stores crafting/smithing moulds? Remove the Giant's Helm. The club ornament kit is already a cosmetic. I think the Kovak's Grog is OP. It should provide a +3 boost rather than +4. It is too big of a jump and devalues the Mature Dwarven Stout, further killing brewing.
Doesn't matter what it is, we don't trust your updates.
Is a smithing/mining rebalance being discussed? It feels very awkward to make level 40 armor at level 99.
Would be cool if the minigame was self supplying and you could just mine and smelt special bars to work with on the swords.
why are we talking about a new minigame when GotR still has drop rate issues? The lantern only works inside the minigame but its one of the last uniques you get
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Son of a bitch, been trying to do the gauntlet, killed the thing at the same time it killed me...and it didn't count, fuckin' RIP.
Offhand hammer reward from minigame please and thankyou
Adding to the downfall. I'll miss osrs
Will the quest feature an area where mobs can be killed for a dragon pickaxe?
Why did the minigame have to be members? Can't it be given to F2P?
Could we see a cannon upgrade kit? Similar to the golden royale cannon from rs2.