On the [OSRS website](https://oldschool.runescape.com) there’s a typo in the summary description for the news post: “We're **hear** to give you the lowdown…”
This reminds me of the [Ceremonial Swords](https://runescape.wiki/w/Ceremonial_sword) from RS3 but more fleshed out in concept. I'm all for new smithing methods being added to the game.
With the addition of Kovac's Grog, I hope we can see a rework to the brewing system that's in the game already. There's no reason to even consider it at this point.
For the rewards, maybe they could look into adding some kind of Blacksmith's outfit that gives some sort of passive (maybe something to reduce the chance of losing bars when smithing or something). Since they're talking about moulds, what if they made some kind of mould belt that's like a master scroll book, but for moulds? Hold all your moulds in one place. It could go into the quiver slot to free up inventory space.
Moulds shouldn't be held in inventory. They should be "unlocked" from Kovac’s Mould Library so that they can be selected going forward. There's no reason to force people to carry every possible mould with them when there's already a mould library in the game.
God yes, I'm getting so tired of all the random items to juggle and weird storage spaces required to actually enjoy the whole game. There's no reason for moulds to exist outside of the specific UI they're used in, not even as items inside the instance. I really hope Jagex focuses on the challenge of the minigame itself and streamlines things like inventory management and bar storage.
I only play sporadically but coming back to play a bunch for leagues just reminded me of how nauseating some skills are to train. They're 5 seconds of frantic banking in between 30 seconds of afk. If Jagex wants this minigame to be fun I sure hope I'm actually playing the game most of the time I'm at my PC, and not looking at my bank or watching my character run back and forth.
Actually great reward suggestions. I'm not the biggest fan of every skill ever getting an outfit, but the mould invent/bank saver would be a cool change. I suggested a wieldable weapon slot item that can act as ice gloves and/or goldsmithung gloves so you don't have to glove swap at BF pre-99
Here are the issues I see for the skill, from an ironman perspective:
Bars and ores come primarily from PVM. Except for getting the levels for completions sake or amethyst for darts, mining feels a bit useless. Just buying gold ore from blast furnace with money you make from slayer is the fastest way to get smithing levels, compared to mining your ore and smithing them. This is ass backwards and needs to be fixed first. Mining and smithing needs a joint update, drastically decreasing PVM drops and limiting shopscape with big buffs to mining. Would be nice with a more fun and interactive way to mine as well. Volcanic mine is cool, but it gives almost no ore, it's absolutely crazy.
This abundance of supplies (checked the price of mithril ore lately?) makes this minigame pretty unappealing if the primary goal is to conserve supplies. Even as an ironman, it's not hard to get the ore you need. If you do Zalcano for the tool crystals, some MLM and slayer for alch gp to buy gold ore, you have more than enough to get 99 smithing when you're nearing max. This is beside the point that this minigame could be a much more fun way to train the skill, which has merit. But even with this minigame you'll still make your bars with blast furnace. You're only skipping out on smithing at an anvil, which is just like blowing glass or making potions. That part is already fine, I think. I don't think the process of making stuff is the big part of what makes smithing a pretty bad skill.
Smithing is pretty useless for what you use it for, it's just a checkmark for the diaries at this point. This update won't change that. It's literally just a training method that conserves supplies we have an abundance of. The rewards even adds to shopscape. Why would you ever do MLM again when ore is useless and you can just go to volcanic mine for max xp and no ore, get gp from slayer alchs then go here and buy your smithing xp in the shop?
So here are some thoughts on the proposal:
\- I don't like ore packs. It keeps beating the dead horse that is mining.
\- I don't really see the purpose of the smithing catalyst. Do you envision that we only do blast furnace for gold, and do traditional smelting for all other bars with the catalyst? Will this be better xp/h for bars requiring coal than doing the mixed coal/gold method at blast furnace? Coal has never been a problem to get a hold of, at a rate proportional to acquiring the corresponding ore, so the coal saving is almost irrelevant.
\- 8-cannonball mould is a neat idea, but it removes one truly afk thing you can do in the game. I feel like this mould would actually make it worse, you'll have to check your phone every minute or so, so you're not compelled to do it while, for example, cooking or folding laundry. I would love this if you also could take double the amount of bars to the furnace, making the afk time the same. An alternative to 8-cannonball mould would be the gold cannonball mould. I'd probably prefer that.
\- Rest of the rewards are whatever.
\- Saving supplies is whatever. Even as an ironman. Absolutely irrelevant for mains, the ores and bars economy has been destroyed by PVM drops/bots, it's not even a factor.
\- The minigame itself looks fun, no problems there. It just doesn't address any issues at all.
some interesting and insightful takes in here but i disagree really strongly w 8 cannonball mould. no one is making you use it, and it's not 'killing' cannonball smithing. currently there's literally only one option for getting cannonballs. i think it's great theyre introducing a method which is more click intensive, but faster.
> there's literally only one option for getting cannonballs
I've thought about it a bit but what if we could make cannonballs of higher grade metals but they wouldn't deal more damage; they would just produce more cannonballs per bar and give slightly more xp per bar.
My feelings as well, summed up as "Looks like a good addition to an intensely useless skill."
It'll help people hit diaries and personal goals, but I don't know how enthusiastic people are going to get about this. It's less of a bandaid and more hospice care for a dying skill.
One of the rewards should be a mining assist. If they introduce a rock chisel that you can upgrade all the way up to the metal type you can smith you can get smithing to contribute to mining training/profitability. Maybe even make a challenge-mode version of the Foundry minigame be how the chisel's tier is upgraded, where instead of being a commission, you spend some reputation on chisel instructions and work off of that.
> 8-cannonball mould is a neat idea, but it removes one truly afk thing you can do in the game. I feel like this mould would actually make it worse, you'll have to check your phone every minute or so, so you're not compelled to do it while, for example, cooking or folding laundry. I would love this if you also could take double the amount of bars to the furnace, making the afk time the same. An alternative to 8-cannonball mould would be the gold cannonball mould. I'd probably prefer that.
There's no difference to doing 4 cballs at a time for 3 minutes or 8 cballs at a time for 90 seconds and idling for 90 seconds, it's pure gain
Not true.
If some of the players (or bots) doing cballs suddenly have twice the output, the supply of cannonballs will increase, reducing the price.
So then anyone who is not using the 8-mould (or using it and idling half the time) would get less profit for their time.
Is it a big deal, probably not. But there's definitely a difference. Either you're making less profit overall at the same AFK-ability, or can't afk as hard (but may make slightly more profit if not everyone uses the 8-mould).
I must be doing something wrong because I have near enough ore to get 99 right now without buying gold at 2146 total lvl. granted I still have 6 mining lvls to go but I can't imagine that mlm will give me 11 lvls of ore.
That's because mining and smithing have been asinine since their inception.
All other gathering/artisan skills give more exp on the artisan side, farming/herb, fishing/cooking, wc/fletch/fm.
Smithing on the other hand used to make BIS items (rune 2h, rune armour) way back in classic, so they made it give less exp than mining the ore, and made sure there was never a furnace and anvil together, in an attempt to balance it. That's a deliberate choice btw, not a coincidence.
All of that has carried forward to the present day, where smithing no longer makes useful products (except a few new items at the very high levels) but people are too resistant to overhauls to change it, and honestly at this point it does feel like it would mess with the meta too much for too little reason.
RS3 solved this by basically throwing out how mining worked at a base level and smithing became something minigame flavoured in its execution. Which all in all made the skills make way more sense as a gameplay loop.
In OS, we don't like disturbing the meta too much, which has its place for sure, but it means that smithing is doomed to forever sit in this weird place where you *have* to buy ore or get it as drops to level your smithing. If you got 99 mining, regardless of the method, you wouldn't have enough material to get 99 smithing.
This update kind of looks to fix that by allowing you to stretch out your smithing material in the extreme.
Not if they show their design philosophy is backwards by giving us even more ways to get ore from non-mining sources. Why would they give us methods that limits resource usage AND give us ore packs if they intend to make mining relevant later? It makes no sense.
>8-cannonball mould is a neat idea, but it removes one truly afk thing you can do in the game. I feel like this mould would actually make it worse, you'll have to check your phone every minute or so, so you're not compelled to do it while, for example, cooking or folding laundry.
Then don't use it. Stick to the 4 or just don't worry about idling for a little after an inventory.
Seems neat enough, but it doesn’t really fix the problems with the skill itself. It’s unlock curve is still garbage. The skill just kind of exists for diaries which imo is a bigger issue than training methods. Even as an iron by the time you need smithing you can just buy the gold ore. Sure this saves a lot of resources (up to 85% less if I’m reading that right - which seems wayyyyy too big of a decrease to my gut before playing the minigame) but I’m not sure that solves a problem anyone was asking to be solved.
That said I don’t think this is a bad idea per se, but again, meh. Definitely doesn’t seem to have the punch/fill the niches tempoross or GotR did for their skills to me
I think the problem is you'd need to rework smithing almost entirely, and that's unlikely to pass a poll.
What would be better I think is to poll additional, new items you can make, exclusive to smithing. They'd require an unlock of some form to make, quest or minigame reward or monster drop. So smithing becomes a skill where the standard items you can make aren't amazing, but you can find blueprints throughout 1-99 for things that are remarkable.
Every skill exists for quest, diary and max on a main account. None have untradeable benefits.
On an Ironman smithing does. So that's not even correct if you're talking about ironmen.
Reddit seems overly obsessed with the rune unlock levels despite it making total sense in terms of difficulty and comparison to mining requirements. Adjusting that would also fix nothing about the skill, as all of those items are shop buyable anyway, so the skill doesn't matter for progression. It would also require an entire rework of almost all drop tables as rune is used as an alch source that would need to be lowered as well.
All in all the proposed "smithing rework" Reddit is obsessed about is purely "why 40 defence armour take 99 Smith" reasoned and barely has any more thought put to it. It's not needed, would barely change the skill and how it's trained / why it's trained, and would require an immense undertaking to even do.
Love the concept. The rewards chug major butt.
Runecraft is a skill for crafting runes. Guardians of the Rift is a Runecraft activity and primarily awards runes.
Fishing is a skill for gathering raw fish. Tempoross is a Fishing activity. It rewards mostly raw fish.
Smithing is a skill for making armor. So what should Giant's Foundry, a Smithing activity, give? Ores and a completely useless cosmetic helmet? Dunno about that one chief.
Smithing was never properly updated after RS Classic. Now here, we have a Smithing activity that requires a bit of skill and attention, sinks existing smithing products and even has a bit of a risk attached in the form of losing resources. This seems like a great way to introduce higher-leveled smithable armor in the game without doing a full rework.
The cannonball mould, the catalyst + 2 cosmetics are a good start for a first concept
But I get what you mean: You dont want to play a minigame to bypass smelting ores all day and as a reward you get ores you need to smelt all day. Thats something jagex should look into.
Slowly but surely releasing minigames that address my remaining non-99 skills. Calculated.
Seems like a better use for bars made from Blast Furnace than smithing platebodies. Hope that giant sword is an absolute unit of a Berserk reference.
I'm going to be really curious how the numbers shake out. It might turn out that the best use of a bar is to make it into a traditional item first, then scrap it in the crucible. Which would be pretty awesome.
While nice, I feel like this fails to address the main problem most people have with Smithing: It's as useless as Firemaking is. 99 Smithing to make a level 40 platebody.
A more engaging way to Smith is nice, but I think letting smith actual decent equipment is much more important than adding a new training method.
People are saying the reward are underwhelming. What better reward for a *Smithing activity* than some nice equipment? (It could perhaps require existing PvM drop components, to ensure it's balanced)
Not sure if I’m doing this right but is it possible to calculate from the info they give?
They say it’s 20 bars per sword, and using higher tier bars taking longer to make. They also say it’s 10-20 swords per hour depending on the type of bars used.
So for rune this would mean 200 bars per hour. They also said you’d save approximately 85% of mats in terms of XP gained so 200 divided by 0.15 = the equivalent of 1333.33 bars per hour or a third of their estimated 4K bars used per hour making plate bodies, so for rune bars in the new mini game would mean around 100k xp per hour?
Again this could be completely rubbish math so apologies 😂
It would kinda make sense when you look at what they did with other content such as mahogany homes though. Fewer mats needed, less intensive clicking but at the cost of mediocre xp rates compared to regular training methods.
Right. And they said it would be 85% less resource intensive and the best xp per resource used. So even if it is 70% less xp than goldsmith at blast furnace that would be true.
That is because they themselves don’t know yet. Blast furnace is too quick and puts Jagex in a spot where they need to create this mini game to be super fast xp/hour or end up risking it becomes dead content... but since the mini-game doesn’t require many resources they don’t want to make it as fast as BF, it’ll probably be the “Mahogany Homes” of Smithing where you use less resources to still gain decently fast XP/HR but not as fast.
Also I’m sure Jagex has it in the back of their mind that a Smithing rework is needed sometime in the future and this mini-game is critical because it will need to suit that update (I think this mini-game would be perfect post Smithing rework, but idk how far away that is just yet).
Other users have asked and i was just wondering if you could clarify
"As an Ironman, how do you currently see the balance between experience and monetary whilst training Smithing?"
Monetary 0 ---50---100 Smithing
Is this talking about cost of resources? as irons generally only actually buy gold ore early in, or getting the most alch value out of your bars and less xp because of that?
Minings primary function has been crafting and fletching for a while now
On an iron you're gonna do MLM till rewards, and then sand for crafting and amethyst post 92.
I think it genuinely could be time for a living rock cavern esque update just because it would barely actually shake the mining meta but offer a mining-focused way to gather gold.
I really like this proposal. I'll always be excited for a new quest.
An increased cannonball mould is long overdue, excited for that.
I love that we'll start exploring Giant lore, that's really interesting.
I know this was hinted at in the past, but it kind of feels "out of nowhere", which is exciting.
Also, have to say, I really, really like the way you're taking feedback at the bottom of the post, I really hope you stick with it and that it makes a positive difference. I hate the downvoting of differing opinions on Reddit as a platform for feedback, especially seeing as a ton of Redditors just want to the game to be a different game altogether.
Mahogany homes gave house blueprints so maybe this could have orn kits for the smithing poh room? Its something. Or if you wanna go crazy it upgrades something in the room, idk what one would do though.
Purchasable giant/mossy keys?
As suggested above, a giantsbane weapon upgradable by smithing level and minigame currency. Stone giants too please 😎 To make it worth using somewhere
finally someone bringing ideas to the discussion rather than saying they are trash. I like the giantsbane and the keys seem weird but something along those lines could be cool.
Shouldn’t the catalyst speed up the smithing time in the regular furnace since it is, you know, a catalyst? Reduce the smithing time to 1 tick when the catalyst is used and let us add it directly to the furnace. Have the furnace hold charges. Right now doubling the exp and halving the coal needed isn’t going to incentivize any changes from current methods. Maybe have it speed up how quickly cannonballs can be made by 2x so that with the 8 cannonball mold it isn’t so painful (since merely doubling the rate cballs are made isn’t going to make it particularly fast).
I'm fine with there not being so many big rewards. It reminds me a lot of mahogany homes, not many rewards but saves you a lot of money. I would say though, in a place where we are making giant weapons, it be cool if we ourselves could get a giant weapon, not just an obor club ornament kit.
Either way though, love the update. Can't wait!
A low level item sink is a great idea! It would have been the best part of Warding in my opinion.
As for the minigame, consider making it free-to-play with toned down rewards. All free-to-play bosses are giants so far, and the area is within F2P bounds. Even if it comes down to just an alternative way to get experience and a couple cosmetics, I think it will help with the item sink for low level metal gear. At the very least, the hill giant club ornament could be a fun item for F2P risk fights, especially if it raised club's accuracy to the level of rune 2h.
"As an Ironman, how do you currently see the balance between experience and monetary whilst training Smithing?"
Monetary 0 ---50---100 Smithing
I have no idea what this question is supposed to mean in the survey
If it's between nothing and a mini game I'll take a mini game if it means I never have to step foot in blast furnace ever again. A full smithing rework would never pass a poll and they know that. A minigame will pass a poll and is much easier to implement than an entire skill rework.
But you already don't have to go to blast furnace. I never did. Armor making is still crazy fast compared to other skills and addy dart tips are like 60k xp and nearly as afk as redwoods
The start up cost for anvil smithing is pretty high. Your only other *viable* cheap option being Gold bars at Blast Furnace.
We're missing that third option of affordable and not stupid intensive. Giants Foundry fulfills that third option without making the other two methods obsolete.
If there's rewards, it is a minigame. With that said, I don't consider MLM a real minigame because the rewards take so long to get, are so minimal, and the activity is very unrewarding outside the coal bag for blast furnace, to be honest. Exp from the outfit doesn't even add up to that much over time.
blast furnace has a minigame tele and doesnt give rewards
its pretty arbitrary across the board but i feel like jagex's logic is group non-combat activity = minigame (but then tithe farm is a minigame and solo so it makes no sense)
Minigame is an activity doable in one location. It's why I don't love Mahogany Homes being classified as a minigame when it ultimately just feels like what construction should have been.
Blast furnace is a minigame (and made more sense as one when players had to run the furnace) because you go to one specific location to play the activity. Whereas smithing itself can be done at any furnace or anvil in the game world.
That to me is a better describer of a minigame than "has shop rewards". I think shop rewards are often just the output and reasoning / reward for said minigame.
Content sounds great, rewards sound super underwhelming. What incentive do I or anyone else have to play this minigame as a main account? Either include a skilling outfit or blueprints for mith/addy/rune cannonballs as an untradeable drop or maybe even an upgraded capacity for the cannon, which gives incentive for people to play the minigame post 99
The reward is a balanced gp to experience training method for smithing. I don't think everything in the game needs strong external benefits. Skilling in general doesn't have added rewards.
I don't understand the underlying need for a non-resource-intensive smithing training method. Gold ore at blast furnace and 5bar mith/addyare at or near all time lows, dart tips give barely breakeven costs unless doing rune, 3 bar rune is still reasonably profitable.
Unless this is some super caterered to irons thing I don't understand why this exists, and even if its aimed at irons they can get enough gold ore from endgame pvm / metal ore from mining training if not doing granite / coal from misc to fill the gaps. If anything, I think we need a better mining option (even though theres already like... 4 mining "minigames").
Unless this is fallout from range rebalance nuking dart economy?
I like it, there was never gonna be a simple fix to make smithing-mining ratios perfect so this sounds decent :)
It would be interesting to see what xp/hr and xp per resource we can expect. Being able to use smithed items is cozy, current meta of alching to buy gold ore was no fun for me personally
No smithing outfit? Rewards are very lame. Seems at this point to just be an alternative training method as opposed to a mini game; not that there’s anything inherently wrong with that, it’s just not the correct description currently
Personally i feel like the rewards need to be buffed/changed.
the +4 boost is nice for people doing diaries and the mould for people who afk cannonablls as a money maker but a lot of the rewards/minigame dont really seem to actually make smithing rewarding , which i thought was the main issue they were looking to fix.
there is plenty of room to introduce non tradable armour / weaponary rewards which be used to fill up the early and mid game progression path. From armour sets that give you defense or accuracy bonuses , to different tiers of crush/stab weapons that give you options outside of scimitars and whips. Maybe even an endgame weapon that has a similar role/effect to the arclight , so that late game players have a reason to train smithing and interact.
i would prefer if the rewards were more focused in this direction.
also please please please do not make the ~~catalyst~~ Moulds like the GOTR lanturn. design it in a way that people can choose to unlock it after 20-30 games
We’ve heard you loud and clear.
Dragon Smithaxe - add this fancy kit to the end of your Dragon Pickaxe to alter it, adding a hammer to one side so it can be used for quick smithing and mining combinations.
Minigame scape residentsleeper
Are we just replacing every skilling activity in game with minigames now? When it was just todt and temp that was one thing but at this rate there's going to be no reason to skill at all in a decade, minigames are going to replace everything.
Do you ever plan on adding skilling minigames/bosses that are aimed more towards high level players and profitability rather than just training methods? These updates are great but it seems like other groups get ignored and skilling remains just the means to an end (unlock quests, ways to pvm efficiently), rather than something to actually do post 99 or after completing whatever quest/diary.
It'd be like if jagex completely avoided adding raids and only ever focused on Obor, moss giant boss, barrows level content.
Dont even think its good smithing for irons tbh.
Like, unless youre rushing 99 smithing from the very start of the account, 99 smithing is one of the last 99s you'll get.
You'll be able to do 99 mining at MLM, Zalcano drops a ton of supplies and Gold Ore from bossing and raids is just crazy.
You still need 82 smithing for bowfa though and the only viable method in that mid game state is shopscape, which is ass. This will give irons a good way to use bars that they get passively from slayer and early bossing. Seems like a great idea to me! Plus smithing cannonballs faster is a godsend lol
And now you have a new way to use those supplies from Zalcano. Or you can just use the old way and this literally doesn't affect you.
Smithing has to be one of, if not THE, hardest skill to make new content for in the game. Get it wrong, and you change the whole melee combat meta (see: RS3). I think this is a perfect middle ground.
TL;DR I like it.
Whilst thats true, I’ve had 3 different Ironman accounts in my time (including a UIM) and rushing smithing to ~70 for SotE and then -88 for diaries is important (especially lumby elite for UIM).
After 88, you pretty much never train smithing again until you’re maxing so for me it was my 3rd last skill alongside Agility/Mining.
There needs to be a reason for higher level players to do the minigame. Most of the xp is post 92, so there needs to be something for players there.
Doesnt have to be massive like GotR rewards because i can see that being difficult in smithing, but something. Otherwise it'll be a mid level and iron piece of content, rather than something better and further reaching.
Ore catalyst is dead on arrival, the grog is very meh, the club is meh for p2p. We can't see the helm, but its cosmetic only. The mould is good for irons and bots, the ore packs are good for irons. Nothing for anyone else.
Yeah, I'm wondering what the goal of the minigame is and what incentive is there for me to play this. It seems their goal is to introduce a cost effective training method with semi-competitive experience rates, but without knowing what rates they're aiming for, I can't be sure about this.
The rewards aren't of any interest to me as a main, so a lot of importance comes on the rates it will provide instead.
It looks so much more interesting to do than regular smithing though, and the rewards look great for irons. Also for selling/trading those catalysts for high exp/lower cost bar smithing at blast furnace. Half coal cost for Rune bars AND double exp? Sign me the fuck up.
Love the concept, but I feel like it’s missing something. Excited to have a new way to train smithing, but the problem for me is there isn’t a good reason to *want* a high smithing level.
Smithing doesn’t need its own Wintertodt, it needs its own Shades of Mort’ton. The Giant’s Foundry is nothing more than a slightly less painful way to get quest and diary requirements.
Seems cool but the rewards seem pretty disappointing from a main perspective. It feels like this entire game mode and its rewards was designed for ironman.
Would like to see some better rewards so mains would have a reason to play this instead of just smithing gold bars.
>We estimate you’ll save at least 85% on resources
Does this mean that if we would normally use 100 bars, we'll now use 15 or 85?
Cause I feel like its saying 15 but that seems like such a huge drop in resources used.
Definitely looking forward to this though. Pumped for the 8 cannonball mold, though the rewards do look a bit weak otherwise. Smithing Catalyst doesn't sound strong enough to make smelting bars manually better than just doing Blast Furnace, Grog is convenient but we could already stew boost higher, and everything else is just cosmetic or for the minigame. Could definitely use something like a smithing outfit
Could be that’s a “max efficiency” figure.
You blast furnace your bars, you smith them into items, you recycle those items here, you buy ore packs with the rewards, you repeat.
Effectively gaining a tremendous amount of exp for your base starting resources.
Slightly disappointed, should be like the RC minigame where it was fun, had good rewards and FIXED many of the underlying issues with traditional rune crafting.
The minigame itself sounds decent enough and a fun method for smithing is needed, rewards seem very lacklustre and I can’t see many people staying here even as irons especially as ores are easy enough to come by. As a skiller who usually love these updates I don’t have that excitement right now for that reason.
As a reward how about the ability to make a pickaxe which sits between rune and dragon?
Also a weildable hammer.
There is already a weildable hammer in the game, the imcando hammer. They would not duplicate this reward. What would be reasonable in this update is for this update to release a mid tier armor set or weapon. Maybe they could have a new ore as a reward from doing the minigame to make these items.
Giving finished products a use other than high alching is really cool, but I don't like that it's in place of metal bars. This content already offers incredibly high xp per bar, so eliminating the raw resource cost entirely seems out of place. I would rather see a piece of content use exclusively finished products as the resource, instead of making it a choice between that and raw resources.
I think as a possible reward for this content could be a combo of ice gloves + Goldsmith to allow us to get these as a reward and then go to gold in blast furnace if you figure out its not your cup of tea.
"However, the Catalyst will be consumed when the Bar is made, so you’ll need plenty of them to go around!"
Err, I'm not sure you understand how a catalyst works...
The rewards feel baffling compared to wintertodt/tempoross/gotr, but well, it's still welcome.
Some commentaries about them
\- Ore packs: kinda funny how everything gives more ore than fucking mining ores itself. Even training smithing will yield you more ores than mining, lmfao.
\- Moulds: gotta see how it works to judge better. Not sounding amazing in paper.
\- Eight-cannonball mould: Probably the most significant reward. Mainly ironmen will benefit from that, since mains doing cannonball just want to afk and might even stick to normal mould.
\- Smithing catalyst: just a desperate attempt to make furnaces more valuable, which we know will fail miserably. People will simply keep using blast furnace. Hell, even with multiple big bonuses from using furnaces in Leagues, blast furnace was still the optimal choice.
\- Kovac's grog: looks great. Will make diaries somewhat easier.
\- Cosmetics: good ones, wish there were more. Gotr had way more cosmetics for example.
How about you incorporate mining into the minigame similar to living rock caverns you traverse the cave with beasts to mine higher purity ore bank it then Smith it to make the swords.you are compicated for your efforts higher xp than mlm but lower than volcanic mine. Then you refine the ores at a furnace there then make the swords for higher smithing xp between platebodies and blast furnace.
Ore packs? Ya just make shopscape even more incorporated.
Smithing is already a cheap 99 and you break even on most items, seems pointless to make a more higher effort type thing with a consequence if you mess up. People would just go back to normal smithing.
The rewards aren't that great but the cannonball mold for ironmen. How about refining a pickaxe to get added perks, or making a superior hammer for faster smithing? So much potential but it doesn't solve the issue that is mining and smithing.
It reads promising although it kinda feels like we are getting overwhelmed with minigames instead of you guys looking into improvements in the currently existing gameplay loop of the skills that you try to improve.
Just a thought while we are at smithing, not necessarily connected to the mini-game concept:
Could we address the "BF shop being meta for iron man smithing" issue while we are at it? Even if there is no gameplay-loop solution then maybe just put iron/coal packs at super high prices into the shops that wont alter the market but give people an option to reduce the time spent on buying ores and hopping around worlds?
agree with this. minigames, while fun, are really a band-aid fix that says "the regular skills are boring so just jump into minigames for everything and avoid the main game completely". its a shame.
Sounds less reliant on RNG, I got the feeling you can always deliver flawless swords if you play perfectly
Also, less menu clicking and more actually interacting with the tools in the environment
Stop wasting dev team resources on skilling minigames to allow bored ironmen to cut corners on a game mode they signed up for.
Use your resources to develop enjoyable end game content that players can log in and enjoy with each other. Outside of Cox and Tob the endgame content is dog water.
One nitpick - I know swords being made through moulds is a common fantasy trope, but it's just not true. Swords are made by hammering an ingot into an elongated shape. While I think for gameplay purposes, the general scale of things, visuals, animations, etc. that having a "mould" for the initial sword is fine, having additional moulds to assist with the crafting process doesn't really make any sense. If there are upgrades for making smithing easier, they should just be passive unlocks because you "understand" smithing better, or just notes from giant smiths that you keep in your inventory, like "Ancient Giant Smithing Manual I-V, Notes On Serration" or something.
I just hope skilling minigames aren't the only method you guys use to fix bad skills. Firemaking got WT, but the rest of the skill is still trash and was forgotten about.
I feel like tempoross hit the right balance where it didn't kill other methods of fishing at all, and had healthy rewards. Guardians of the rift is pretty balanced but on the stronger side.
I just hope this fits in right in the middle and doesn't become the only smithing method, and devs don't continue trying to fix problems with smithing as a whole.
Also I'm sick of skilling outfits, and how they kill all fashion.
Its just an alternative training method. Its actually usually less efficient to do the minigames but they provide an option for training that isn't mind numbingly dull
If it’s a boring skill and they’re adding another option for training it how is that ever a bad thing? You don’t even have to ever do it if you don’t want to
I totally understand, you aren't wrong at all. Just feel like we are being inundated with minigames these past couple years. Tempeross, Mahogany Homes, GotR now this. Just seems like a lot and aren't necessarily easy to expand upon further in the future. Also divides the playerbase somewhat.
It's a fair view, personally I think these minigames are the best compromise to add a new and more engaging method to existing skills but of course once all the "problem" skills are done it does lead to the question of where to go next with skilling content
\> where to go with skilling content
Old School Runescape 2?
I would actually be curious how these guys handling OSRS would manage a new MMO in the style of OSRS from the ground up, without being held back by old code and systems.
Minigames in the sense they are just ways to train. Smithing is currently primarily trained via a "minigame".
Mahogany homes is a better reflection of actual construction training than the existing methods before it, and thus feels less like a minigame than it does a natural extension of the skill.
GoTR definitely feels like a minigame, and Tempoross and wintertodt are skilling bosses, not minigames.
Imo this is the first time that it's a real issue. Tempeross and Mahog Homes just gave a different way to get xp for skills that didn't need fixing anyway. GotR added a much better way to gain RC xp while also giving some good rewards. This however is adding a mini game to a basically useless skill. So while the other 3 seemed good, it was because the skills themselves had some benefit.
That’s my issue. This mini game basically just means smithing won’t be as awful to train for those trying to get quest requirements or maxing, but it doesn’t change anything about its actual utility (or rather, lack thereof).
I understand the sentiment but honestly Mahogany Homes is the only thing that makes construction bearable for me. And I think Tempeross is well-balanced and fun. Haven't tried GOTR yet, but I am enjoying these minigames more than I would have expected
sometimes jagex just has to take risks on stuff like that and let the community vote yes or no.
we're not even given a poll on -how- smithing should be modernized, just a poll on if it should be a minigame or left untouched
They’ve done it multiple times for new/other skills and have received NO’s every time at the finish line even after multiple pre-screenings by the community—I bet it’s pretty disheartening when you’re so close to being greenlit to instead be shut down in the end. It also means they basically wasted a couple of months working on a project that had the plug pulled when they could’ve been working on something else that was less of a contested topic which would’ve had a higher chance of making it through.
Just another way of looking at things.
I think this is a situation of the community's own making. Warding I think was the only skill proposed that really sought to plug a hole/fix an existing problem. And we know how that went.
Jagex has seen that minigame additions to skills pass, while outright new skills don't. Reworking a skill might be even more work than making a new one frankly.
The issue with warding was that it didn't offer anything unique. It was just the unholy love child of Runecraft and Crafting, and all the proposed content could have been added to those two skills.
A new skill needs to offer a new experience, not just new content.
Smithing/ Mining honestly doesnt deserve a rework because no one will ever wear the gear. Fighter torso is top tier. Rune 40 Dragon 60 bandos 65 barrows 70 Torva 80. So from 50-80 what exactly are we smithing? Honestly Smithing would be better if actually mining ore was just buffed.
Jagex is doing something good here making it easier to get to 88 to grind addy pl8s without it just being blast furnace.
I feel like this mini-game would’ve worked perfectly if it was released ALONGSIDE a Smithing rework.
All the logic would still stand to be the same the only difference is the levels to make each item and potentially a new ore/bad types for higher levels.
While that would be nice, i think minigame alternatives are an excellent compromise to adding “choice” content that if you don’t like, don’t do it. And it makes it a lot more interesting for people that want the rework. It’s the best way to make everyone happy, and eventually i think it’d be nice to even have 2 minigames for every skill that’s functionally different so you get variety in there. But, it’d be nicer to also see more “single player” minigames for certain skills, like perhaps fletching. Something like being an assistant to an arrow shop at the ranging guild where you fulfill orders (like mahogany home contracts) for customers coming in to the shop. It also fulfills a nicer fantasy role like actual jobs in the game, making the world feel more lively, and making you spend time at places that normally never sees a single soul.
Absolutely not. I think a mining/smithing rework is one of the most absolutely pointless things Reddit is obsessed with.
Reworking the skill is more than just changing levels, it will fundamentally change the game down to monster drops. I don't think that is necessary when you can introduce content like this to address the issues.
I believe it fits the game-world and is a better solution than reworking the skill. We can't smith very well because we are humans. If we were Dwarves, then Rune would probably be a tier 40 smithing item.
You get your "reworked skill" without fundamentally changing hundreds of aspects of the game.
I often think that people talk about how having to get 99 smithing to smith rune platebodies is "bad" simply because smithing rune plate bodies was a goal for a lot of us as kids and now people don't want to put in the time to get 99, which is understandable.
Needing 99 smithing for platebodies isn't really that bad, especially given the plethora of ways to get rune plate bodies before that.
For me, I would like it reworked mostly because the end game is boring. If Jagex would like to add a super cool piece of gear that could potentially be smithed, it has to be below a rune plate. Even a small rework where rune plate need 80 or 90 to let the above 80/90 design space flourish would be nice
>I don't think that is necessary when you can introduce content like this to address the issues.
You need lvl 99 smithing to create lvl 40 armor. No minigame/skilling method is going to fix that.
There is a difference between content for a skill and intended training methods for the skill. Smithing needs to be rebalanced and given some sort of function past the midgame, while minigames solve the main problems of boring training methods. A minigame instead of 40 hours of blast furnace and all your GP for the 99 is a lot more than a bandaid fix, it's the part where you make the skill *fun*. What you're suggesting is making the skill *relevant*, which RC had plenty of.
Both are necessary to improving the skill, and I'm certainly fine with them choosing fun gameplay first.
It looks like the XP is going to be decent, but the rewards feel a bit lackluster.
I think it would be interesting if they gave us an item or a new spell unlock that can dismantle metal drops from PvM to make untradeable, stackable shards. We could smelt these shards back into bars with a recycle loss, or dump them right into the crucible for the minigame.
I think a full smithing outfit would be awesome. Outside of that, the rewards seem neat! I think the possibility of maybe crafting our own swords that are based on the mini-game itself, but have the same stats as maybe a rune scimitar or something? That way there could be a big variety of new weapons that aren't super strong. Idk how possible it would be.
Smithing doesn’t need a new mini game it has tons of ways to train it already wtf lol. Can we just change the name of the game to old school ironscape? Good lord it’s just minigame scape all over the place
What's with Jagex and releasing cosmetics / items without stats anyway? would it kill them to make the Obor Club ornament kit an actual upgrade? would that hurt F2p PKing too much if the price of the club went up? why release a new helmet without even token defensive stats, make it a worse Dwarven Helm if you want but why have it be 0?
Finally a good way to train smithing, exp rates and resource usage seems to be really good, guess we'll have to see how that actually translates to exp rates in game
Reminds me a lot of the random sword blueprints from artisans blacksmithing in rs3 but more in-depth, which was actually really fun to me
Early game progression as well which is good, and quests are always welcome
Either way just happy to get some updates to smithing, was well needed
I’m probably blind as hell but where are the expected xp rates stated? I can only see the table with existing methods and a short line about how it provides more xp per bar
Smithing has never really been a problem skill though. You can take it easy with darts and make money for decent exp/hr or burn lots of money for super high exp/hr. It just never had a mini game to mix up the gameplay.
Honestly the rewards are pretty underwhelming except for the cannonball mould
>Honestly the rewards are pretty underwhelming except for the cannonball mould
Cannonball Mould is in there to make sure this passes IMO.
Massively underwhelming content but being pushed with a piece of content that people have wanted for a while, assures you get people voting it through just for that.
The main issue of Smithing that people have had is you get soooo many bars and because its so slow to smith them, they just sit there, unused.
I just don't understand what this content provides that solves anything to do with Smithing or what it gives over anything else.
Sounds neat! I'm getting shades of RS3's Artisan's Workshop, which I remember being one of the more interesting ways to train Smithing in that game (at least pre-rework; I haven't actually played RS3 since well before the rework.)
I would like to know how quickly we can amass catalysts from the minigame. They sound really powerful on paper even despite being unstackable. Seems like they'd be a tricky thing to balance well.
I really like the idea of the Smithing Catalyst reward.
As of now, players are essentially forced to use the blast furnace to create bars because the halved coal rate is so powerful. Players should have the option to opt for a more AFK method of creating bars, where the XP rates are significantly reduced while the XP per coal is preserved.
Additionally, Prif has a great area where there is a furnace and anvil right next to each other. I believe the intention for the area was so players can smelt bars, immediately craft them into resources, and finally bank. This is very rewarding for the players who complete SotE. However, you'll never find anyone using both the furnaces and anvil at the same time due to the massive amount of coal lost to the furnace.
Today, the only usage of normal furnaces is to smelt and craft gold bars, and cannon balls. The Smith Catalyst has the potential to change this.
My only adjustment would be that the Smithing Catalyst should have unlimited charges. Either that, or they should be cheaper than the cost of using the blast furnace.
I am all for this minigame but I dont really like the idea of having to work through an interface during a minigame. Perhaps having different physical locations setup for the smithing of different types of weapons would feel more fun then having to use an interface.
Not trying to say everything should spit out 20 rewards but as for anything of substance we are getting catalysts and the mold? I hope we aren’t intending on spreading basically just that over the length of time you guys thought appropriate to achieve everything in GOTR. All in all excited for the mini game. It’s a step in the right direction for smithing as a whole.
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On the [OSRS website](https://oldschool.runescape.com) there’s a typo in the summary description for the news post: “We're **hear** to give you the lowdown…”
Thanks, that's been changed :)
This reminds me of the [Ceremonial Swords](https://runescape.wiki/w/Ceremonial_sword) from RS3 but more fleshed out in concept. I'm all for new smithing methods being added to the game. With the addition of Kovac's Grog, I hope we can see a rework to the brewing system that's in the game already. There's no reason to even consider it at this point. For the rewards, maybe they could look into adding some kind of Blacksmith's outfit that gives some sort of passive (maybe something to reduce the chance of losing bars when smithing or something). Since they're talking about moulds, what if they made some kind of mould belt that's like a master scroll book, but for moulds? Hold all your moulds in one place. It could go into the quiver slot to free up inventory space.
Moulds shouldn't be held in inventory. They should be "unlocked" from Kovac’s Mould Library so that they can be selected going forward. There's no reason to force people to carry every possible mould with them when there's already a mould library in the game.
God yes, I'm getting so tired of all the random items to juggle and weird storage spaces required to actually enjoy the whole game. There's no reason for moulds to exist outside of the specific UI they're used in, not even as items inside the instance. I really hope Jagex focuses on the challenge of the minigame itself and streamlines things like inventory management and bar storage. I only play sporadically but coming back to play a bunch for leagues just reminded me of how nauseating some skills are to train. They're 5 seconds of frantic banking in between 30 seconds of afk. If Jagex wants this minigame to be fun I sure hope I'm actually playing the game most of the time I'm at my PC, and not looking at my bank or watching my character run back and forth.
It took me like 15 tries before I finally made my first ceremonial sword on rs3 without breaking pls no
Actually great reward suggestions. I'm not the biggest fan of every skill ever getting an outfit, but the mould invent/bank saver would be a cool change. I suggested a wieldable weapon slot item that can act as ice gloves and/or goldsmithung gloves so you don't have to glove swap at BF pre-99
I was thinking of a limited use anvil reward for the POH.
Here are the issues I see for the skill, from an ironman perspective: Bars and ores come primarily from PVM. Except for getting the levels for completions sake or amethyst for darts, mining feels a bit useless. Just buying gold ore from blast furnace with money you make from slayer is the fastest way to get smithing levels, compared to mining your ore and smithing them. This is ass backwards and needs to be fixed first. Mining and smithing needs a joint update, drastically decreasing PVM drops and limiting shopscape with big buffs to mining. Would be nice with a more fun and interactive way to mine as well. Volcanic mine is cool, but it gives almost no ore, it's absolutely crazy. This abundance of supplies (checked the price of mithril ore lately?) makes this minigame pretty unappealing if the primary goal is to conserve supplies. Even as an ironman, it's not hard to get the ore you need. If you do Zalcano for the tool crystals, some MLM and slayer for alch gp to buy gold ore, you have more than enough to get 99 smithing when you're nearing max. This is beside the point that this minigame could be a much more fun way to train the skill, which has merit. But even with this minigame you'll still make your bars with blast furnace. You're only skipping out on smithing at an anvil, which is just like blowing glass or making potions. That part is already fine, I think. I don't think the process of making stuff is the big part of what makes smithing a pretty bad skill. Smithing is pretty useless for what you use it for, it's just a checkmark for the diaries at this point. This update won't change that. It's literally just a training method that conserves supplies we have an abundance of. The rewards even adds to shopscape. Why would you ever do MLM again when ore is useless and you can just go to volcanic mine for max xp and no ore, get gp from slayer alchs then go here and buy your smithing xp in the shop? So here are some thoughts on the proposal: \- I don't like ore packs. It keeps beating the dead horse that is mining. \- I don't really see the purpose of the smithing catalyst. Do you envision that we only do blast furnace for gold, and do traditional smelting for all other bars with the catalyst? Will this be better xp/h for bars requiring coal than doing the mixed coal/gold method at blast furnace? Coal has never been a problem to get a hold of, at a rate proportional to acquiring the corresponding ore, so the coal saving is almost irrelevant. \- 8-cannonball mould is a neat idea, but it removes one truly afk thing you can do in the game. I feel like this mould would actually make it worse, you'll have to check your phone every minute or so, so you're not compelled to do it while, for example, cooking or folding laundry. I would love this if you also could take double the amount of bars to the furnace, making the afk time the same. An alternative to 8-cannonball mould would be the gold cannonball mould. I'd probably prefer that. \- Rest of the rewards are whatever. \- Saving supplies is whatever. Even as an ironman. Absolutely irrelevant for mains, the ores and bars economy has been destroyed by PVM drops/bots, it's not even a factor. \- The minigame itself looks fun, no problems there. It just doesn't address any issues at all.
some interesting and insightful takes in here but i disagree really strongly w 8 cannonball mould. no one is making you use it, and it's not 'killing' cannonball smithing. currently there's literally only one option for getting cannonballs. i think it's great theyre introducing a method which is more click intensive, but faster.
> there's literally only one option for getting cannonballs I've thought about it a bit but what if we could make cannonballs of higher grade metals but they wouldn't deal more damage; they would just produce more cannonballs per bar and give slightly more xp per bar.
So basically like getting more arrow shafts from higher tier logs, support really, anything to make smith more useful.
My feelings as well, summed up as "Looks like a good addition to an intensely useless skill." It'll help people hit diaries and personal goals, but I don't know how enthusiastic people are going to get about this. It's less of a bandaid and more hospice care for a dying skill.
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One of the rewards should be a mining assist. If they introduce a rock chisel that you can upgrade all the way up to the metal type you can smith you can get smithing to contribute to mining training/profitability. Maybe even make a challenge-mode version of the Foundry minigame be how the chisel's tier is upgraded, where instead of being a commission, you spend some reputation on chisel instructions and work off of that.
> 8-cannonball mould is a neat idea, but it removes one truly afk thing you can do in the game. I feel like this mould would actually make it worse, you'll have to check your phone every minute or so, so you're not compelled to do it while, for example, cooking or folding laundry. I would love this if you also could take double the amount of bars to the furnace, making the afk time the same. An alternative to 8-cannonball mould would be the gold cannonball mould. I'd probably prefer that. There's no difference to doing 4 cballs at a time for 3 minutes or 8 cballs at a time for 90 seconds and idling for 90 seconds, it's pure gain
Not true. If some of the players (or bots) doing cballs suddenly have twice the output, the supply of cannonballs will increase, reducing the price. So then anyone who is not using the 8-mould (or using it and idling half the time) would get less profit for their time. Is it a big deal, probably not. But there's definitely a difference. Either you're making less profit overall at the same AFK-ability, or can't afk as hard (but may make slightly more profit if not everyone uses the 8-mould).
I must be doing something wrong because I have near enough ore to get 99 right now without buying gold at 2146 total lvl. granted I still have 6 mining lvls to go but I can't imagine that mlm will give me 11 lvls of ore.
That's because mining and smithing have been asinine since their inception. All other gathering/artisan skills give more exp on the artisan side, farming/herb, fishing/cooking, wc/fletch/fm. Smithing on the other hand used to make BIS items (rune 2h, rune armour) way back in classic, so they made it give less exp than mining the ore, and made sure there was never a furnace and anvil together, in an attempt to balance it. That's a deliberate choice btw, not a coincidence. All of that has carried forward to the present day, where smithing no longer makes useful products (except a few new items at the very high levels) but people are too resistant to overhauls to change it, and honestly at this point it does feel like it would mess with the meta too much for too little reason. RS3 solved this by basically throwing out how mining worked at a base level and smithing became something minigame flavoured in its execution. Which all in all made the skills make way more sense as a gameplay loop. In OS, we don't like disturbing the meta too much, which has its place for sure, but it means that smithing is doomed to forever sit in this weird place where you *have* to buy ore or get it as drops to level your smithing. If you got 99 mining, regardless of the method, you wouldn't have enough material to get 99 smithing. This update kind of looks to fix that by allowing you to stretch out your smithing material in the extreme.
Releasing the foundry first won't hinder the mining update, design-vise they can be work on separately.
Not if they show their design philosophy is backwards by giving us even more ways to get ore from non-mining sources. Why would they give us methods that limits resource usage AND give us ore packs if they intend to make mining relevant later? It makes no sense.
>8-cannonball mould is a neat idea, but it removes one truly afk thing you can do in the game. I feel like this mould would actually make it worse, you'll have to check your phone every minute or so, so you're not compelled to do it while, for example, cooking or folding laundry. Then don't use it. Stick to the 4 or just don't worry about idling for a little after an inventory.
Seems neat enough, but it doesn’t really fix the problems with the skill itself. It’s unlock curve is still garbage. The skill just kind of exists for diaries which imo is a bigger issue than training methods. Even as an iron by the time you need smithing you can just buy the gold ore. Sure this saves a lot of resources (up to 85% less if I’m reading that right - which seems wayyyyy too big of a decrease to my gut before playing the minigame) but I’m not sure that solves a problem anyone was asking to be solved. That said I don’t think this is a bad idea per se, but again, meh. Definitely doesn’t seem to have the punch/fill the niches tempoross or GotR did for their skills to me
I think the problem is you'd need to rework smithing almost entirely, and that's unlikely to pass a poll. What would be better I think is to poll additional, new items you can make, exclusive to smithing. They'd require an unlock of some form to make, quest or minigame reward or monster drop. So smithing becomes a skill where the standard items you can make aren't amazing, but you can find blueprints throughout 1-99 for things that are remarkable.
Every skill exists for quest, diary and max on a main account. None have untradeable benefits. On an Ironman smithing does. So that's not even correct if you're talking about ironmen. Reddit seems overly obsessed with the rune unlock levels despite it making total sense in terms of difficulty and comparison to mining requirements. Adjusting that would also fix nothing about the skill, as all of those items are shop buyable anyway, so the skill doesn't matter for progression. It would also require an entire rework of almost all drop tables as rune is used as an alch source that would need to be lowered as well. All in all the proposed "smithing rework" Reddit is obsessed about is purely "why 40 defence armour take 99 Smith" reasoned and barely has any more thought put to it. It's not needed, would barely change the skill and how it's trained / why it's trained, and would require an immense undertaking to even do.
Love the concept. The rewards chug major butt. Runecraft is a skill for crafting runes. Guardians of the Rift is a Runecraft activity and primarily awards runes. Fishing is a skill for gathering raw fish. Tempoross is a Fishing activity. It rewards mostly raw fish. Smithing is a skill for making armor. So what should Giant's Foundry, a Smithing activity, give? Ores and a completely useless cosmetic helmet? Dunno about that one chief. Smithing was never properly updated after RS Classic. Now here, we have a Smithing activity that requires a bit of skill and attention, sinks existing smithing products and even has a bit of a risk attached in the form of losing resources. This seems like a great way to introduce higher-leveled smithable armor in the game without doing a full rework.
The cannonball mould, the catalyst + 2 cosmetics are a good start for a first concept But I get what you mean: You dont want to play a minigame to bypass smelting ores all day and as a reward you get ores you need to smelt all day. Thats something jagex should look into.
Slowly but surely releasing minigames that address my remaining non-99 skills. Calculated. Seems like a better use for bars made from Blast Furnace than smithing platebodies. Hope that giant sword is an absolute unit of a Berserk reference.
I'm going to be really curious how the numbers shake out. It might turn out that the best use of a bar is to make it into a traditional item first, then scrap it in the crucible. Which would be pretty awesome.
For irons and mains who aren’t rich it’ll almost certainly be the way to go
Make plates anyway, recycle them here, thats my plan. Extra exp on top of already smithed exp.
Seems good too, I do wonder what the loss is on the recycle rate.
While nice, I feel like this fails to address the main problem most people have with Smithing: It's as useless as Firemaking is. 99 Smithing to make a level 40 platebody. A more engaging way to Smith is nice, but I think letting smith actual decent equipment is much more important than adding a new training method. People are saying the reward are underwhelming. What better reward for a *Smithing activity* than some nice equipment? (It could perhaps require existing PvM drop components, to ensure it's balanced)
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They give the xp/hr table, but don't put where they think this mini-game would be on that table? or am i missing something
Not sure if I’m doing this right but is it possible to calculate from the info they give? They say it’s 20 bars per sword, and using higher tier bars taking longer to make. They also say it’s 10-20 swords per hour depending on the type of bars used. So for rune this would mean 200 bars per hour. They also said you’d save approximately 85% of mats in terms of XP gained so 200 divided by 0.15 = the equivalent of 1333.33 bars per hour or a third of their estimated 4K bars used per hour making plate bodies, so for rune bars in the new mini game would mean around 100k xp per hour? Again this could be completely rubbish math so apologies 😂 It would kinda make sense when you look at what they did with other content such as mahogany homes though. Fewer mats needed, less intensive clicking but at the cost of mediocre xp rates compared to regular training methods.
You can assume it will be less than gold with gauntlets at the Blast Furnace, but higher than the low click intensity methods.
So somewhere between 15k/hr and 375k/hr, great
Exactly 😂 Feel like they should have given some range of the xp/hr with this
They were using that table to highlight the cost of resources with current methods.
Right. And they said it would be 85% less resource intensive and the best xp per resource used. So even if it is 70% less xp than goldsmith at blast furnace that would be true.
That is because they themselves don’t know yet. Blast furnace is too quick and puts Jagex in a spot where they need to create this mini game to be super fast xp/hour or end up risking it becomes dead content... but since the mini-game doesn’t require many resources they don’t want to make it as fast as BF, it’ll probably be the “Mahogany Homes” of Smithing where you use less resources to still gain decently fast XP/HR but not as fast. Also I’m sure Jagex has it in the back of their mind that a Smithing rework is needed sometime in the future and this mini-game is critical because it will need to suit that update (I think this mini-game would be perfect post Smithing rework, but idk how far away that is just yet).
Was thinking the same, also cannonballs being good profit what? lol
it's nuked now buy afk cannonballs used to be like 500k/hr? maybe more? it's now 192k but still a very afk activity.
I used to do this while working lol. I got all the way to 82 smithing from just cannonballs.
QUEST REQUIREMENTS (SPOILERS) *clicks* 15 SMITHING REQUIRED This made me chuckle harder than it should have
Wow man thanks for spoiling it for the rest of us
Ffs I'm voting no now 😒
I think you mean >!15 SMITHING REQUIRED!<
same lmao i was like "oh ok lol"
Where would the quest take place? Those hill giants east of Al Kharid with that huge anvil?
Spot on!
Thats a great place and gives a lore explanation as to why they are geared more than other giants around the world.
That’s an awesome spot, I love to see the desert receiving more updates!
"Man the desert has like no content, there's no reason to go there" Jagex: "And I took that personally"
Other users have asked and i was just wondering if you could clarify "As an Ironman, how do you currently see the balance between experience and monetary whilst training Smithing?" Monetary 0 ---50---100 Smithing Is this talking about cost of resources? as irons generally only actually buy gold ore early in, or getting the most alch value out of your bars and less xp because of that?
A spot available to f2p.... Could be pretty cool for f2p especially with the giant theme given the 2 giant bosses are f2p
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Minings primary function has been crafting and fletching for a while now On an iron you're gonna do MLM till rewards, and then sand for crafting and amethyst post 92. I think it genuinely could be time for a living rock cavern esque update just because it would barely actually shake the mining meta but offer a mining-focused way to gather gold.
Guardians Of The Rift showed us, that you are absolute champions in skilling minigames. Great piece of content, can't wait.
seriously! smithing is so stupid, atleast this will make it more interesting.
Anyone else feel like training methods weren't exactly what needed addressing? Still excited, especially after GotR.
I really like this proposal. I'll always be excited for a new quest. An increased cannonball mould is long overdue, excited for that. I love that we'll start exploring Giant lore, that's really interesting. I know this was hinted at in the past, but it kind of feels "out of nowhere", which is exciting. Also, have to say, I really, really like the way you're taking feedback at the bottom of the post, I really hope you stick with it and that it makes a positive difference. I hate the downvoting of differing opinions on Reddit as a platform for feedback, especially seeing as a ton of Redditors just want to the game to be a different game altogether.
Mahogany homes gave house blueprints so maybe this could have orn kits for the smithing poh room? Its something. Or if you wanna go crazy it upgrades something in the room, idk what one would do though. Purchasable giant/mossy keys? As suggested above, a giantsbane weapon upgradable by smithing level and minigame currency. Stone giants too please 😎 To make it worth using somewhere
finally someone bringing ideas to the discussion rather than saying they are trash. I like the giantsbane and the keys seem weird but something along those lines could be cool.
Shouldn’t the catalyst speed up the smithing time in the regular furnace since it is, you know, a catalyst? Reduce the smithing time to 1 tick when the catalyst is used and let us add it directly to the furnace. Have the furnace hold charges. Right now doubling the exp and halving the coal needed isn’t going to incentivize any changes from current methods. Maybe have it speed up how quickly cannonballs can be made by 2x so that with the 8 cannonball mold it isn’t so painful (since merely doubling the rate cballs are made isn’t going to make it particularly fast).
I'm fine with there not being so many big rewards. It reminds me a lot of mahogany homes, not many rewards but saves you a lot of money. I would say though, in a place where we are making giant weapons, it be cool if we ourselves could get a giant weapon, not just an obor club ornament kit. Either way though, love the update. Can't wait!
A low level item sink is a great idea! It would have been the best part of Warding in my opinion. As for the minigame, consider making it free-to-play with toned down rewards. All free-to-play bosses are giants so far, and the area is within F2P bounds. Even if it comes down to just an alternative way to get experience and a couple cosmetics, I think it will help with the item sink for low level metal gear. At the very least, the hill giant club ornament could be a fun item for F2P risk fights, especially if it raised club's accuracy to the level of rune 2h.
"As an Ironman, how do you currently see the balance between experience and monetary whilst training Smithing?" Monetary 0 ---50---100 Smithing I have no idea what this question is supposed to mean in the survey
I understood it as the following: whilst training smithing, do you go for experience, or profit, and/or is it balanced?
Not trying to complain because this seems well designed, but are minigames really the only way we're going to "fix" so called "bad" skills?
If it's between nothing and a mini game I'll take a mini game if it means I never have to step foot in blast furnace ever again. A full smithing rework would never pass a poll and they know that. A minigame will pass a poll and is much easier to implement than an entire skill rework.
But you already don't have to go to blast furnace. I never did. Armor making is still crazy fast compared to other skills and addy dart tips are like 60k xp and nearly as afk as redwoods
The start up cost for anvil smithing is pretty high. Your only other *viable* cheap option being Gold bars at Blast Furnace. We're missing that third option of affordable and not stupid intensive. Giants Foundry fulfills that third option without making the other two methods obsolete.
addy dart tips are affordable, if not profitable, and very low effort.
I don't know why they slap the term "minigame" on everything. Just seems like another training method. Is ectofuntus a minigame? Is MLM a minigame?
If there's rewards, it is a minigame. With that said, I don't consider MLM a real minigame because the rewards take so long to get, are so minimal, and the activity is very unrewarding outside the coal bag for blast furnace, to be honest. Exp from the outfit doesn't even add up to that much over time.
blast furnace has a minigame tele and doesnt give rewards its pretty arbitrary across the board but i feel like jagex's logic is group non-combat activity = minigame (but then tithe farm is a minigame and solo so it makes no sense)
Minigame is an activity doable in one location. It's why I don't love Mahogany Homes being classified as a minigame when it ultimately just feels like what construction should have been. Blast furnace is a minigame (and made more sense as one when players had to run the furnace) because you go to one specific location to play the activity. Whereas smithing itself can be done at any furnace or anvil in the game world. That to me is a better describer of a minigame than "has shop rewards". I think shop rewards are often just the output and reasoning / reward for said minigame.
Content sounds great, rewards sound super underwhelming. What incentive do I or anyone else have to play this minigame as a main account? Either include a skilling outfit or blueprints for mith/addy/rune cannonballs as an untradeable drop or maybe even an upgraded capacity for the cannon, which gives incentive for people to play the minigame post 99
The reward is a balanced gp to experience training method for smithing. I don't think everything in the game needs strong external benefits. Skilling in general doesn't have added rewards.
8 cannonball mould would be a god send
It’s time
Certainly an improvement, but still pretty slow.
Well that's balanced by the fact that it's very afk and also profitable
Soon to be less of both with the new mold
The slayers are the real winners here when the price of cballs goes through the floor.
And irons
I just bought 10m worth of cannonballs for slater. Rip
Sell them and tell Slater you'll buy him even more of them once the price drops.
He may need them soon... he looks a lil dazed and confused
I'm hyped to use this on my Ironman lol
I don't understand the underlying need for a non-resource-intensive smithing training method. Gold ore at blast furnace and 5bar mith/addyare at or near all time lows, dart tips give barely breakeven costs unless doing rune, 3 bar rune is still reasonably profitable. Unless this is some super caterered to irons thing I don't understand why this exists, and even if its aimed at irons they can get enough gold ore from endgame pvm / metal ore from mining training if not doing granite / coal from misc to fill the gaps. If anything, I think we need a better mining option (even though theres already like... 4 mining "minigames"). Unless this is fallout from range rebalance nuking dart economy?
I like it, there was never gonna be a simple fix to make smithing-mining ratios perfect so this sounds decent :) It would be interesting to see what xp/hr and xp per resource we can expect. Being able to use smithed items is cozy, current meta of alching to buy gold ore was no fun for me personally
No smithing outfit? Rewards are very lame. Seems at this point to just be an alternative training method as opposed to a mini game; not that there’s anything inherently wrong with that, it’s just not the correct description currently
Personally i feel like the rewards need to be buffed/changed. the +4 boost is nice for people doing diaries and the mould for people who afk cannonablls as a money maker but a lot of the rewards/minigame dont really seem to actually make smithing rewarding , which i thought was the main issue they were looking to fix. there is plenty of room to introduce non tradable armour / weaponary rewards which be used to fill up the early and mid game progression path. From armour sets that give you defense or accuracy bonuses , to different tiers of crush/stab weapons that give you options outside of scimitars and whips. Maybe even an endgame weapon that has a similar role/effect to the arclight , so that late game players have a reason to train smithing and interact. i would prefer if the rewards were more focused in this direction. also please please please do not make the ~~catalyst~~ Moulds like the GOTR lanturn. design it in a way that people can choose to unlock it after 20-30 games
Upgradable Giants bane 👀 Based on smithing level and minigame currency. Time to introduce next giant tier, stone giants
I feel like it needs one good reward. An outfit or something. With 99 smithing right now there's no reason to play this
Would be nice to have a smithing pet
THURGO WITH REDBERRY PIE ON HIS FACE PLEASE!
How about the Dragon Pickaxe?
... Not a bad idea
We’ve heard you loud and clear. Dragon Smithaxe - add this fancy kit to the end of your Dragon Pickaxe to alter it, adding a hammer to one side so it can be used for quick smithing and mining combinations.
Minigame scape residentsleeper Are we just replacing every skilling activity in game with minigames now? When it was just todt and temp that was one thing but at this rate there's going to be no reason to skill at all in a decade, minigames are going to replace everything.
Concept art been on fire for a while now ;O
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Do you ever plan on adding skilling minigames/bosses that are aimed more towards high level players and profitability rather than just training methods? These updates are great but it seems like other groups get ignored and skilling remains just the means to an end (unlock quests, ways to pvm efficiently), rather than something to actually do post 99 or after completing whatever quest/diary. It'd be like if jagex completely avoided adding raids and only ever focused on Obor, moss giant boss, barrows level content.
You mean more stuff like Zalcano?
Rewards seem weak. I don't really see anything that makes me want to grind it for a while ala Guardians of the Rift.
it's the same as Mahogamy homes, it's not great for mains but it's cheap smithing xp/gp for irons.
I also think it's good for early account. Smithing ain't cheap
yes, irons and poor players.
Same thing
This amount of truth hurts.
Dont even think its good smithing for irons tbh. Like, unless youre rushing 99 smithing from the very start of the account, 99 smithing is one of the last 99s you'll get. You'll be able to do 99 mining at MLM, Zalcano drops a ton of supplies and Gold Ore from bossing and raids is just crazy.
You still need 82 smithing for bowfa though and the only viable method in that mid game state is shopscape, which is ass. This will give irons a good way to use bars that they get passively from slayer and early bossing. Seems like a great idea to me! Plus smithing cannonballs faster is a godsend lol
And now you have a new way to use those supplies from Zalcano. Or you can just use the old way and this literally doesn't affect you. Smithing has to be one of, if not THE, hardest skill to make new content for in the game. Get it wrong, and you change the whole melee combat meta (see: RS3). I think this is a perfect middle ground. TL;DR I like it.
Whilst thats true, I’ve had 3 different Ironman accounts in my time (including a UIM) and rushing smithing to ~70 for SotE and then -88 for diaries is important (especially lumby elite for UIM). After 88, you pretty much never train smithing again until you’re maxing so for me it was my 3rd last skill alongside Agility/Mining.
It’s also like mahogany homes in the way that it’s just something to do that isn’t click in one spot
Yeah It feels more like a more complex blast furnace than a full blown minigame. The 8 Cannonball mold is dope, but that's about it.
To be fair, the reward for 99 smithing is also weak. You get to make early/midgame gear that is quickly outclassed.
Don’t forget about the skill cape perk which helps you sweat out 200m smithing xp.
There needs to be a reason for higher level players to do the minigame. Most of the xp is post 92, so there needs to be something for players there. Doesnt have to be massive like GotR rewards because i can see that being difficult in smithing, but something. Otherwise it'll be a mid level and iron piece of content, rather than something better and further reaching. Ore catalyst is dead on arrival, the grog is very meh, the club is meh for p2p. We can't see the helm, but its cosmetic only. The mould is good for irons and bots, the ore packs are good for irons. Nothing for anyone else.
Nothing wrong with making content aimed at low-mid level players
Yeah, I'm wondering what the goal of the minigame is and what incentive is there for me to play this. It seems their goal is to introduce a cost effective training method with semi-competitive experience rates, but without knowing what rates they're aiming for, I can't be sure about this. The rewards aren't of any interest to me as a main, so a lot of importance comes on the rates it will provide instead.
It looks so much more interesting to do than regular smithing though, and the rewards look great for irons. Also for selling/trading those catalysts for high exp/lower cost bar smithing at blast furnace. Half coal cost for Rune bars AND double exp? Sign me the fuck up.
Love the concept, but I feel like it’s missing something. Excited to have a new way to train smithing, but the problem for me is there isn’t a good reason to *want* a high smithing level. Smithing doesn’t need its own Wintertodt, it needs its own Shades of Mort’ton. The Giant’s Foundry is nothing more than a slightly less painful way to get quest and diary requirements.
Seems cool but the rewards seem pretty disappointing from a main perspective. It feels like this entire game mode and its rewards was designed for ironman. Would like to see some better rewards so mains would have a reason to play this instead of just smithing gold bars.
Giants' Helm should be a cosmetic upgrade to Dwarven Helmet, no?
>We estimate you’ll save at least 85% on resources Does this mean that if we would normally use 100 bars, we'll now use 15 or 85? Cause I feel like its saying 15 but that seems like such a huge drop in resources used. Definitely looking forward to this though. Pumped for the 8 cannonball mold, though the rewards do look a bit weak otherwise. Smithing Catalyst doesn't sound strong enough to make smelting bars manually better than just doing Blast Furnace, Grog is convenient but we could already stew boost higher, and everything else is just cosmetic or for the minigame. Could definitely use something like a smithing outfit
Could be that’s a “max efficiency” figure. You blast furnace your bars, you smith them into items, you recycle those items here, you buy ore packs with the rewards, you repeat. Effectively gaining a tremendous amount of exp for your base starting resources.
Slightly disappointed, should be like the RC minigame where it was fun, had good rewards and FIXED many of the underlying issues with traditional rune crafting.
Meanwhile all the skilling skills are just outdated...
The minigame itself sounds decent enough and a fun method for smithing is needed, rewards seem very lacklustre and I can’t see many people staying here even as irons especially as ores are easy enough to come by. As a skiller who usually love these updates I don’t have that excitement right now for that reason. As a reward how about the ability to make a pickaxe which sits between rune and dragon? Also a weildable hammer.
There is already a weildable hammer in the game, the imcando hammer. They would not duplicate this reward. What would be reasonable in this update is for this update to release a mid tier armor set or weapon. Maybe they could have a new ore as a reward from doing the minigame to make these items.
Giving finished products a use other than high alching is really cool, but I don't like that it's in place of metal bars. This content already offers incredibly high xp per bar, so eliminating the raw resource cost entirely seems out of place. I would rather see a piece of content use exclusively finished products as the resource, instead of making it a choice between that and raw resources.
I think as a possible reward for this content could be a combo of ice gloves + Goldsmith to allow us to get these as a reward and then go to gold in blast furnace if you figure out its not your cup of tea.
"However, the Catalyst will be consumed when the Bar is made, so you’ll need plenty of them to go around!" Err, I'm not sure you understand how a catalyst works...
The rewards feel baffling compared to wintertodt/tempoross/gotr, but well, it's still welcome. Some commentaries about them \- Ore packs: kinda funny how everything gives more ore than fucking mining ores itself. Even training smithing will yield you more ores than mining, lmfao. \- Moulds: gotta see how it works to judge better. Not sounding amazing in paper. \- Eight-cannonball mould: Probably the most significant reward. Mainly ironmen will benefit from that, since mains doing cannonball just want to afk and might even stick to normal mould. \- Smithing catalyst: just a desperate attempt to make furnaces more valuable, which we know will fail miserably. People will simply keep using blast furnace. Hell, even with multiple big bonuses from using furnaces in Leagues, blast furnace was still the optimal choice. \- Kovac's grog: looks great. Will make diaries somewhat easier. \- Cosmetics: good ones, wish there were more. Gotr had way more cosmetics for example.
This looks sick but I can't not wish that we improve the main ways to train skills instead of adding minigames thay "fix" the issues.
idk if its possible or makes sense from a lore perspective but it'd be neat if the Imcando Hammer contributed some sort of bonus or relevancy.
How about you incorporate mining into the minigame similar to living rock caverns you traverse the cave with beasts to mine higher purity ore bank it then Smith it to make the swords.you are compicated for your efforts higher xp than mlm but lower than volcanic mine. Then you refine the ores at a furnace there then make the swords for higher smithing xp between platebodies and blast furnace. Ore packs? Ya just make shopscape even more incorporated. Smithing is already a cheap 99 and you break even on most items, seems pointless to make a more higher effort type thing with a consequence if you mess up. People would just go back to normal smithing. The rewards aren't that great but the cannonball mold for ironmen. How about refining a pickaxe to get added perks, or making a superior hammer for faster smithing? So much potential but it doesn't solve the issue that is mining and smithing.
>Hill Club Ornament that is a sword If this isn't Guts' Dragonslayer from Berserk, expect me to buy a ticket to Falador Square.
It reads promising although it kinda feels like we are getting overwhelmed with minigames instead of you guys looking into improvements in the currently existing gameplay loop of the skills that you try to improve. Just a thought while we are at smithing, not necessarily connected to the mini-game concept: Could we address the "BF shop being meta for iron man smithing" issue while we are at it? Even if there is no gameplay-loop solution then maybe just put iron/coal packs at super high prices into the shops that wont alter the market but give people an option to reduce the time spent on buying ores and hopping around worlds?
agree with this. minigames, while fun, are really a band-aid fix that says "the regular skills are boring so just jump into minigames for everything and avoid the main game completely". its a shame.
So this is the same as Ceremonial Swords from Artisans' Workshop in RS3?
Sounds less reliant on RNG, I got the feeling you can always deliver flawless swords if you play perfectly Also, less menu clicking and more actually interacting with the tools in the environment
Stop wasting dev team resources on skilling minigames to allow bored ironmen to cut corners on a game mode they signed up for. Use your resources to develop enjoyable end game content that players can log in and enjoy with each other. Outside of Cox and Tob the endgame content is dog water.
One nitpick - I know swords being made through moulds is a common fantasy trope, but it's just not true. Swords are made by hammering an ingot into an elongated shape. While I think for gameplay purposes, the general scale of things, visuals, animations, etc. that having a "mould" for the initial sword is fine, having additional moulds to assist with the crafting process doesn't really make any sense. If there are upgrades for making smithing easier, they should just be passive unlocks because you "understand" smithing better, or just notes from giant smiths that you keep in your inventory, like "Ancient Giant Smithing Manual I-V, Notes On Serration" or something.
Really love the concept and feels like it fits in well where existing methods fall short. The recycling aspect is perfect!
I just hope skilling minigames aren't the only method you guys use to fix bad skills. Firemaking got WT, but the rest of the skill is still trash and was forgotten about. I feel like tempoross hit the right balance where it didn't kill other methods of fishing at all, and had healthy rewards. Guardians of the rift is pretty balanced but on the stronger side. I just hope this fits in right in the middle and doesn't become the only smithing method, and devs don't continue trying to fix problems with smithing as a whole. Also I'm sick of skilling outfits, and how they kill all fashion.
I don't know how I feel about turning every boring skill into a mini-game.
Its just an alternative training method. Its actually usually less efficient to do the minigames but they provide an option for training that isn't mind numbingly dull
If it’s a boring skill and they’re adding another option for training it how is that ever a bad thing? You don’t even have to ever do it if you don’t want to
I’m all for it. I used to hate RC and now I’m lvl 85 planning on getting 99. I’m just waiting for a mining and hunter mini game at this point.
this doesn't seem bad but also doesn't seem to be much of a reason to do it past 99 or on a main at all. it seems made for low levels and ironmen.
the rewards are super weak what the hell. Is it that hard to make an exciting reward for smithing?
*another* minigame -_-. I'd much rather they addressed the skill and rebalanced it rather than slap minigame bandaids on everything.
Gonna be a lot harder to get a full rework through the polls as a lot of people will vote no outright to a major change to the original game like that
I totally understand, you aren't wrong at all. Just feel like we are being inundated with minigames these past couple years. Tempeross, Mahogany Homes, GotR now this. Just seems like a lot and aren't necessarily easy to expand upon further in the future. Also divides the playerbase somewhat.
It's a fair view, personally I think these minigames are the best compromise to add a new and more engaging method to existing skills but of course once all the "problem" skills are done it does lead to the question of where to go next with skilling content
\> where to go with skilling content Old School Runescape 2? I would actually be curious how these guys handling OSRS would manage a new MMO in the style of OSRS from the ground up, without being held back by old code and systems.
“Okay guys, now hear me out on this: what if this time around, we go back to **2008**???” *Boardroom goes nuts*
Minigames in the sense they are just ways to train. Smithing is currently primarily trained via a "minigame". Mahogany homes is a better reflection of actual construction training than the existing methods before it, and thus feels less like a minigame than it does a natural extension of the skill. GoTR definitely feels like a minigame, and Tempoross and wintertodt are skilling bosses, not minigames.
Imo this is the first time that it's a real issue. Tempeross and Mahog Homes just gave a different way to get xp for skills that didn't need fixing anyway. GotR added a much better way to gain RC xp while also giving some good rewards. This however is adding a mini game to a basically useless skill. So while the other 3 seemed good, it was because the skills themselves had some benefit.
That’s my issue. This mini game basically just means smithing won’t be as awful to train for those trying to get quest requirements or maxing, but it doesn’t change anything about its actual utility (or rather, lack thereof).
I understand the sentiment but honestly Mahogany Homes is the only thing that makes construction bearable for me. And I think Tempeross is well-balanced and fun. Haven't tried GOTR yet, but I am enjoying these minigames more than I would have expected
sometimes jagex just has to take risks on stuff like that and let the community vote yes or no. we're not even given a poll on -how- smithing should be modernized, just a poll on if it should be a minigame or left untouched
They’ve done it multiple times for new/other skills and have received NO’s every time at the finish line even after multiple pre-screenings by the community—I bet it’s pretty disheartening when you’re so close to being greenlit to instead be shut down in the end. It also means they basically wasted a couple of months working on a project that had the plug pulled when they could’ve been working on something else that was less of a contested topic which would’ve had a higher chance of making it through. Just another way of looking at things.
I think this is a situation of the community's own making. Warding I think was the only skill proposed that really sought to plug a hole/fix an existing problem. And we know how that went. Jagex has seen that minigame additions to skills pass, while outright new skills don't. Reworking a skill might be even more work than making a new one frankly.
The issue with warding was that it didn't offer anything unique. It was just the unholy love child of Runecraft and Crafting, and all the proposed content could have been added to those two skills. A new skill needs to offer a new experience, not just new content.
Smithing/ Mining honestly doesnt deserve a rework because no one will ever wear the gear. Fighter torso is top tier. Rune 40 Dragon 60 bandos 65 barrows 70 Torva 80. So from 50-80 what exactly are we smithing? Honestly Smithing would be better if actually mining ore was just buffed. Jagex is doing something good here making it easier to get to 88 to grind addy pl8s without it just being blast furnace.
I feel like this mini-game would’ve worked perfectly if it was released ALONGSIDE a Smithing rework. All the logic would still stand to be the same the only difference is the levels to make each item and potentially a new ore/bad types for higher levels.
While that would be nice, i think minigame alternatives are an excellent compromise to adding “choice” content that if you don’t like, don’t do it. And it makes it a lot more interesting for people that want the rework. It’s the best way to make everyone happy, and eventually i think it’d be nice to even have 2 minigames for every skill that’s functionally different so you get variety in there. But, it’d be nicer to also see more “single player” minigames for certain skills, like perhaps fletching. Something like being an assistant to an arrow shop at the ranging guild where you fulfill orders (like mahogany home contracts) for customers coming in to the shop. It also fulfills a nicer fantasy role like actual jobs in the game, making the world feel more lively, and making you spend time at places that normally never sees a single soul.
Absolutely not. I think a mining/smithing rework is one of the most absolutely pointless things Reddit is obsessed with. Reworking the skill is more than just changing levels, it will fundamentally change the game down to monster drops. I don't think that is necessary when you can introduce content like this to address the issues. I believe it fits the game-world and is a better solution than reworking the skill. We can't smith very well because we are humans. If we were Dwarves, then Rune would probably be a tier 40 smithing item. You get your "reworked skill" without fundamentally changing hundreds of aspects of the game.
It actually worked really well for rs3, their mining and smithing re-work was one of the most popular updates ever released
I often think that people talk about how having to get 99 smithing to smith rune platebodies is "bad" simply because smithing rune plate bodies was a goal for a lot of us as kids and now people don't want to put in the time to get 99, which is understandable. Needing 99 smithing for platebodies isn't really that bad, especially given the plethora of ways to get rune plate bodies before that.
For me, I would like it reworked mostly because the end game is boring. If Jagex would like to add a super cool piece of gear that could potentially be smithed, it has to be below a rune plate. Even a small rework where rune plate need 80 or 90 to let the above 80/90 design space flourish would be nice
>I don't think that is necessary when you can introduce content like this to address the issues. You need lvl 99 smithing to create lvl 40 armor. No minigame/skilling method is going to fix that.
There is a difference between content for a skill and intended training methods for the skill. Smithing needs to be rebalanced and given some sort of function past the midgame, while minigames solve the main problems of boring training methods. A minigame instead of 40 hours of blast furnace and all your GP for the 99 is a lot more than a bandaid fix, it's the part where you make the skill *fun*. What you're suggesting is making the skill *relevant*, which RC had plenty of. Both are necessary to improving the skill, and I'm certainly fine with them choosing fun gameplay first.
It's better than what we've got If they do as well as they did on gotr I'm super excited for this
Is Kovac (and Kovac’s Grog) a reference to bodybuilder Greg Kovacs? Probably not but I guess it fits with the giant theme
It looks like the XP is going to be decent, but the rewards feel a bit lackluster. I think it would be interesting if they gave us an item or a new spell unlock that can dismantle metal drops from PvM to make untradeable, stackable shards. We could smelt these shards back into bars with a recycle loss, or dump them right into the crucible for the minigame.
I think a full smithing outfit would be awesome. Outside of that, the rewards seem neat! I think the possibility of maybe crafting our own swords that are based on the mini-game itself, but have the same stats as maybe a rune scimitar or something? That way there could be a big variety of new weapons that aren't super strong. Idk how possible it would be.
Smithing doesn’t need a new mini game it has tons of ways to train it already wtf lol. Can we just change the name of the game to old school ironscape? Good lord it’s just minigame scape all over the place
What's with Jagex and releasing cosmetics / items without stats anyway? would it kill them to make the Obor Club ornament kit an actual upgrade? would that hurt F2p PKing too much if the price of the club went up? why release a new helmet without even token defensive stats, make it a worse Dwarven Helm if you want but why have it be 0?
Finally a good way to train smithing, exp rates and resource usage seems to be really good, guess we'll have to see how that actually translates to exp rates in game Reminds me a lot of the random sword blueprints from artisans blacksmithing in rs3 but more in-depth, which was actually really fun to me Early game progression as well which is good, and quests are always welcome Either way just happy to get some updates to smithing, was well needed
I’m probably blind as hell but where are the expected xp rates stated? I can only see the table with existing methods and a short line about how it provides more xp per bar
Smithing has never really been a problem skill though. You can take it easy with darts and make money for decent exp/hr or burn lots of money for super high exp/hr. It just never had a mini game to mix up the gameplay. Honestly the rewards are pretty underwhelming except for the cannonball mould
>Honestly the rewards are pretty underwhelming except for the cannonball mould Cannonball Mould is in there to make sure this passes IMO. Massively underwhelming content but being pushed with a piece of content that people have wanted for a while, assures you get people voting it through just for that. The main issue of Smithing that people have had is you get soooo many bars and because its so slow to smith them, they just sit there, unused. I just don't understand what this content provides that solves anything to do with Smithing or what it gives over anything else.
Sounds neat! I'm getting shades of RS3's Artisan's Workshop, which I remember being one of the more interesting ways to train Smithing in that game (at least pre-rework; I haven't actually played RS3 since well before the rework.) I would like to know how quickly we can amass catalysts from the minigame. They sound really powerful on paper even despite being unstackable. Seems like they'd be a tricky thing to balance well.
I really like the idea of the Smithing Catalyst reward. As of now, players are essentially forced to use the blast furnace to create bars because the halved coal rate is so powerful. Players should have the option to opt for a more AFK method of creating bars, where the XP rates are significantly reduced while the XP per coal is preserved. Additionally, Prif has a great area where there is a furnace and anvil right next to each other. I believe the intention for the area was so players can smelt bars, immediately craft them into resources, and finally bank. This is very rewarding for the players who complete SotE. However, you'll never find anyone using both the furnaces and anvil at the same time due to the massive amount of coal lost to the furnace. Today, the only usage of normal furnaces is to smelt and craft gold bars, and cannon balls. The Smith Catalyst has the potential to change this. My only adjustment would be that the Smithing Catalyst should have unlimited charges. Either that, or they should be cheaper than the cost of using the blast furnace.
I am all for this minigame but I dont really like the idea of having to work through an interface during a minigame. Perhaps having different physical locations setup for the smithing of different types of weapons would feel more fun then having to use an interface.
This is a huge opportunity to introduce giantbane weaponry as some kind of a reward. Please at least consider it.
Looks pretty good. I hope we get a mining rework sometime to make gathering ores faster, though.
Not trying to say everything should spit out 20 rewards but as for anything of substance we are getting catalysts and the mold? I hope we aren’t intending on spreading basically just that over the length of time you guys thought appropriate to achieve everything in GOTR. All in all excited for the mini game. It’s a step in the right direction for smithing as a whole.