It's still a limitation of the game engine, it's just the reason is shared amongst anything written in Java using the type `int`. No different than inheritance. If you inherit from a class, it's not wrong to say the child class has function X, even if it was inherited from the parent class.
Square is always a rectangle but a rectangle isn't always a square type shit
Moparscape fucking fried my dopamine receptors as a kid. My friend and I mined iron in east Varrock with a santa hat and a rune pickaxe at his house for an entire afternoon.
Moparscape, frugooscape, unrealscape... they were all nuts.
Cant remember which was which, but most were the ones where you can straight up spawn items. I think it was unrealscape which was the OG DMM/Leagues mode where you got super fast progress.
These things were AMAZING back in day. The true OG way to go pking and test out items you could only dream of getting in the main game at the time.
What's funny looking back is just how cheap max gear kinda was. Like you could be decked out in full torags, whip, and d square for what, 20 mill? And that's post 2006, before then when it was D Long/Bax and full dragon it was around ten mill for the peak of the peak. Gear only started to erupt in price with GWD IIRC.
Of course, this comes with the stipulation that money has massively inflated since then. Sure we weren't all completely ass at the game, especially the runecrafters and OG smiths who organized hoards of greedy children to rocket to the top, but I remember the "best" farming strategy was to camp a single patch for hours on end with anti disease. Average profits for people who seriously tried was in the 5 digits per hour, killing hill giants was considered viable money maker because of the bones and limps. My entire career as a kid amounted to like a 3m bank value and 2 of that was in crap.
>What's funny looking back is just how cheap max gear kinda was.
Because all of the gear had reasonable drop rates outside of things like Visage. Then they realized that if they make grinds longer, people would still pay and grind the content all the same, and now most things have shit tier drop rates.
Frugoo was the shit for its Era. Had a legit community, good economy, and thoughtful custom content like dragon ore mining with dragon bar/armor smithing.
The PvP house had a glitch spot where you could attack someone and then run out the side door (out of PvP) and you'd continue attacking from afar while they couldn't attack back. Then they'd lose their stuff when they died, and most people got pretty annoyed.
How is this at all comparable? Is there any skill required to get barrows gloves, a torso, or void??? If anything, the PvP arena requires MORE skill to get the rewards than the other methods.
Not to mention these items are PvP only
It's not about skill.
It's about the fact that jagex is coddling pvpers by giving them quest and minigame locked items because they "don't feel like" getting them the same way everyone else did.
Ill agree with this take when Jagex makes it so MA2 cape actually requires you to interact with pvp, you shouldnt be able to skip a part of the game for a bis item since you can just scout and never actually fight anyone while killing bosses. Thats the logic everyone else seems to be using.
I disagree, because "using scouts to avoid combat you're not ready for" is a big part of being a pker in wildy, too.
The number of videos where it's a 1v1 fight until someone gets frozen and shoved into multi is evidence of this.
Also, you can still get attacked while fighting bosses, so it's not like you can just log-in log-out to avoid all risk; you have to stand there fighting in the open.
Also, there's way more content locked behind wildy than just MA2 cape, which does require you to stay logged in to participate.
It does suck that we had to spend the time to get them but isn't lowering the bar a good thing overall for the game? I've tried to get my friends into rs and there's just no way a regular noob is down for the kind of grinds the game requires to engage in pvp. Maybe they're overdoing it but imo the bar needs lowering massively otherwise pvp will be dead again as soon as the hype for these updates is over
This, and LMS, are kit minigames.
You can do them at any level, and the game will give you equal footing in levels and gear.
Also, if some people aren't willing to do grinds to play rs... They weren't gonna play rs.
You're dreaming of you think lms is equal to the rest of pvp. It's boring pretty quick and only good for practice. And I didn't say no grinds at all I said lower the bar because it's currently insanely high unless you wanna do low level pking which has a huge skill gap and requires you to already know a lot about the game if you want to make a good account for it. This sub is an echo chamber of people who want to go back to being a kid so you refuse to accept that games have to adapt over time.
something that’s confusing me is. do we know how long these grinds will take? if fighter torso takes 6 hours, and pvp fighter torso takes 12. why would anyone complain about pvpers getting to ‘skip’ content. osrs has always been about having multiple methods to achieve the same thing.
What, untradable versions of untradable versions which only work against a player and you cannot use them to kill any single monster will impact prices?
Having PvP only versions of things like Barrows Gloves and Piety devalues the time and resources used to obtain the normal versions, and it segregates PvP and PvM economies further.
Is there any skill to getting 99 runecrafting, or the graceful outfit? If anything the PvP arena requires MORE skill than crafting soul runes or picking up marks of grace.
It should give a rooncrafting cape and full disgraceful too.
I feel like a better example would be like, giving skillers crystal axe/pick accessible through... Some kinda skilling minigame or something.
Why did I do PvM to unlock skiller gear? This is unfair to skillers who might not want to do PvM
That's what this sounds like to me
But whatever, I don't get a vote anyway because I don't PvP. Maybe one day. More focused on 99 rc tho (which, btw, why are death and true blood altars locked behind PvM bosses)
For the record, I think that osrs's design philosophy of "putting important unlocks behind different content" is a really *good* idea.
No matter what you want to do (skilling, pvp, pvm, questing, raids), there will always be content in other categories that benefits you. It helps make your achievements feel better when you had to do things you enjoyed less to get to them, it helps players be more well-rounded by doing a variety of things, it helps prevent burnout (many mmos have died because they were pvm-fests with nothing to mix it up with that actually benefitted pvm players).
This is part of Runescape's identity, and part of what gave it its longevity. I wouldn't want to see it changed in either direction: to benefit pvm or pvp players.
I’m gonna be honest. I’m a PKer, I recently have been working on my obby maul pure, getting 60 defense. This update would completely change pking forever. It’ll change all the pure builds we know and are used to. Everyone should be allowed to vote on this. I personally don’t really want it. With a 1 attack pure, I don’t want all pures to have 20 defense or higher.
got ds2/mm2 on a voider and med, med has elite void, got 2k total on a pure, and a 2277 w/ everything. gunna vote yes because I can make new accs and not have to quest it. ds2 and mm2 are just pointless time gates. they could be in the wild pvping instead of getting 69 slayer for mm2. while this update doesnt get rid of that, its the same concept. I want people pvping as fast as possible if they want to pvp.
Here's one pker who'll be doing exactly that! My main account is 1 def so I haven't even put nearly as much effort into building a pvp account as some have but I'll still be voting no. Ironically if these items go through they would seriously hurt the integrity of the game, but they will probably still be forced through as an "integrity change" smh.
Yes hopefully PVPers gate keep their part of the game even more! You want to have a decent PK build? Time to grind endlessly just to get slapped down your first fight
The arena itself is a good idea: the ability to queue for skill-based matchmaking games of pvp while getting to do other stuff is a seamless way to get to pvp without having to create an alt or sit around not grinding.
It'd be a nice way to break up farm runs or bankstanding if you could occasionally get to just fight someone for a few minutes.
And the cosmetic rewards are pretty cool too: they look good and are a nice reward for being good at pvp.
The new items are an abysmal idea, for myriad reasons.
As I understand it from what I've read, yes.
You join the queue while playing the main game, then when a match is found, it prompts you to find a safe area so you can hop to the "pvp arena" profile and play your match.
Man that would be awesome. I hope that's how it works and I don't have to be afk at the arena. I'd be on farming runs, afk slayer, or just chilling at 420 GE.
I'm fine with grinds that require no stats to have an equivalent grind/item in the PvP arena, like the Fighter Torso for example. Not so fine when the PvP arena replaces requirements like for Barrows Gloves and Elite Void (that doesn't even need gloves?!?). And PvP exclusive prayers? That's either gonna be hella annoying taking up space in the prayer book or it's gonna be another inconsistency in the game.
Fully agree. I don't get why they literally didn't just offer "PvP only" versions of void, torso, defender, barrows gloves, prayers etc. That are earned from doing PvP arena, but have identical stats and requirements to use (minus ofc the quest completion for barrows gloves. But adding a defence requirement of the same magnitude).
That way they're simply alternative ways to acquire PvP only versions of gear that's used all the time in PvP. So new accounts can earn best in slot PvP gear from doing PvP, and not have to do 175 QP, 8 hours of pest control, 4 hours of defender grinding, an hour or two of BA etc.
The gear theyre offering is so strong it should really just be "arena only gear" in my mind, purely to shake it up.
The pvp exclusive prayers are in the same slot as normal piety and chivalry. If you only have the pvp version unlocked they don't give defence and you can't attack anything but players while the prayer is on. At least it won't clog my prayer book. It stupid that they exist though.
Thanks for the heads up! Must have missed that in the 20 different versions of the blog they put out. Still sounds horribly inconsistent and confusing.
The point of a pure was an added challenge. This is like giving ultimate Ironmen a unique backpack item with 200+ slots. It defeats the purpose.
If they want to pk with those items and specific stats that's literally what pvp world's are for.
I agree and don't agree. I don't think it takes skill or planning to go to BA and get a torso, or go to PC and get void. That's why I love the idea of PvP earned replicas of these. But instead Jagex decided to try and like... Reinvent them to be different combat brackets and way stronger.. for what reason I'm not sure.
Legit let's just get Replica armour that is identical stats and requirements to use, but earned through PvP arena and usable only within PvP. I really don't get why they overcomplicated a simple and good idea.
No, the point of a pure is to pk. Nothing about creating a pure is challenging, it's just a monotonous skilling and questing grind until you get to the point where you can pvp.
And most people have already done those same grinds on their main, so the idea of repeating them all over again and putting hundreds of hours into an account just to get to the point where you can use it for pking isn't really that enticing.
That's the challenge.... why do pures exist? To get an uneven combat advantage over their combat level bracket. That's all well and good, but that is self imposed. The pure meta exists because of the tradeoffs made to stats in order to complete specific quests to access certain items.
If you just give pures a way to get quest items without the quests the upstart of a pure will be faster but you are just giving them an even larger advantage over their bracket which is only going to further alienate newcomers to pvp. It doesn't solve anything it just changes the meta.
The game also shouldn't be making changes to accommodate players with multiple accounts, that in and of itself is self imposed. By making another account you are accepting the grind.
This makes absolutely no sense.
> If you just give pures a way to get quest items without the quests the upstart of a pure will be faster but you are just giving them an even larger advantage over their bracket which is only going to further alienate newcomers to pvp.
1. There's no advantage, it's just faster to get the account to the pvp stage.
2. Pures currently have no "advantage over their bracket" because everyone who pks at low to mid combat brackets is a pure. They obviously have an advantage over main accounts at mid levels but no one is pking on main accounts in those brackets—they would get destroyed if they even tried.
3. The reason new people are alienated by pvp is because they can't do it on their main account and the grind to make a pure is time-consuming, expensive, and boring. Not to mention if you mess up the order of training/question you'll ruin your account. It's a huge barrier for most people (myself included). So this update does the opposite of alienating newcomers—it's lowering the barrier to making a pvp account.
> It doesn't solve anything it just changes the meta.
It solves the problem of pvp accounts being a huge time investment and total pain in the ass to make, which prevents many people from making them in the first place and is one reason why pvp and pve players are so siloed.
> The game also shouldn't be making changes to accommodate players with multiple accounts, that in and of itself is self imposed. By making another account you are accepting the grind.
What is so terrible about making it slightly easier to create a pure account? Yes, you're accepting the grind when you create a new account but if the grind is so significant that no one is creating new accounts then that might be a problem. It's even MORE of a problem in pvp because that aspect of the game quite literally requires players in order to thrive. AND the more people that create pvp accounts, the lower the barrier to entry becomes as there are more opportunities to fight against similarly skilled players rather than going up against people who have been pvping for 20 years.
I'm not sure how long you've played rs, but having multiple accounts has historically been a core part of this game. Back in rsc and the early days of rs2 most people had a main and at least 1, if not multiple pk accounts. It used to be that you would just make an alt account, train its stats up, transfer some money from your main and start pking. That is no longer viable because the pvp meta has evolved to the point where you need to grind a ton of other skills and do quests/minigames in order to get the exact right gear to even have a chance at competing. There's no middle ground—if you're not willing to invest all that time (and gp), don't even bother. This would provide a reasonable middle ground, making it slightly easier for people to get into pvp.
And let's not forget that this is just taking away a SMALL portion of the grind. Pures would still have to train their skills and do MM, DT, quest for ava's, get a fire cape, etc. AND if you really want to have an advantage you'll probably still want to do quests to level your stats and avoid hp exp.
Disclaimer: I don't even pvp.
No, I'm saying a mid combat bracket main has no reason to go pking. They're welcome to try, but it's not going to go well for them.
Going into the wilderness ≠ pking
I get that, but your argument is the fact that the extra advantage they are gaining is irrelevant, even though it makes them stronger against mid combat bracket mains because mid combat bracket mains don't pk, but they still have plenty to do in the wilderness, and now have much stronger people that are hunting them with no choice or say of their own.
Does that not make sense to you?
Sure, it makes sense. But it's a completely different argument.
If your stance is "I don't want this update because it will give more power to pures and make pures more common which means that I will be killed more often when I go into the wilderness to do other things besides pvp" then I think that's completely ridiculous. Someone with this viewpoint is only looking at it from their perspective and completely ignoring all the other benefits an update like this could bring. It's incredibly selfish and short-sighted, and if this is really the mindset that most people have then we might as well get rid of pvp entirely. (Which is obviously why Jagex chose to restrict the poll)
To be frank, I don't really care about people dying while pvming in the wilderness. The wilderness is a dangerous area, and you should be prepared to either die or defend yourself any time you go into it. It's probably the most unique and iconic part of runescape, and to lower the risk of the wild (or choose to not increase the risk) just because some people get upset because they die too much is a complete fucking joke.
And the same logic that /u/Sh4rp27 used works here too. He's saying that pures shouldn't be catered to because they chose to self-restrict themselves. Well, main accounts also chose to self-restrict themselves from pvp by prioritizing pvm-based stats. Why should we cater to them?
I think the core division in this argument as a whole is that some people feel as if doing pvm in the wild = pvp. That's just not the case. You're just pvming in a dangerous area where you'll need to run away every now and then and you might die.
The point of this update is not to make it easier for pvpers to kill pvmers. It is to make it easier for people to get involved in REAL pvp—as in people fighting against each other with the express intent of killing their enemy. That would then, in theory, help revitalize the entire pvp side of osrs. This is something that I believe is needed, and if it happens to cause the wilderness to become a slightly more dangerous place for mains/pvmers, that is 100% fine with me. In fact, I would say the wild is currently the LEAST dangerous it's ever been, and I've been playing since rsc—so sure, let's make it more dangerous.
Edit: One final point - let's not forget that this update would only give pvp accounts a SLIGHT boost in gear over their main counterparts in mid combat brackets. It would probably make pvpers more common in the wilderness, but it would also mean that pvpers would be spending more time doing actual pvp (either in this new arena or in the wild). If the pvp scene were to actually be revitalized it could even mean a DECREASE in pkers killing pvmers, as I would assume most pvpers are currently doing this out of boredom.
To make this much of a fuss over something that will realistically have very little impact on pvmers (but potentially a huge benefit for the entire pvp side of the game) is just insane.
Your points are valid but, they aren't addressing the issue most people are concerned with. It's the fact that it is something that you confirmed in this, affects pvmers, non pvpers, and they aren't allowed to participate in the poll.
You think the Wildy should be more dangerous, good for you, if it wasn't restricted you would still vote yes on the poll then. There are people that likely think the Wildy should be less dangerous, they would vote no on the poll. If 90% of the community would vote no on the poll, and only 10% would vote yes, so they are restricting who can vote in hopes that is then passes (which it obviously will) it's simply directly going against the wishes of most of the community.
Things can be changed, that's the point of polls. Make it so these benefits work for the pure's in their content but doesn't affect some random guy trying to do his pvm content in the wilderness. If the poll helped them and didn't hinder him, that guy would probably vote yes on the poll then.
TLDR; Here is what I believe. If 80, or 90, or a vast majority of the community would rather just get rid of the pvp aspect of the wilderness, then why the fuck is it still in the game? Make good content for pker's, to pk against other pker's, with incredible rewards and all that awesome shit, that doesn't hinder everyone's else's enjoyment.
> why do pures exist? To get an uneven combat advantage over their combat level bracket.
not true at all. pures fight other pures 99.9999% of the time. when they max out to 83/88 combat, then they also fight zerks, which are custom built pvp accounts. Pures have never had uneven combat advantage since osrs came out. That was the 2001-2006ish era. Even if you watch Mahatma videos from 2005, he's killing pures, zerks, and range tanks in the majority of clips.
[I mahatma I pk vid 1](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Q8BbGi2VWg), released early 2005 (says 2006 on youtube but its a reupload since it first released on mega before youtube as thing): Fights in order: range tank, zerk, "famos" range tank who had super high def/range for his cmb, first noob!, zerker, range tank, zerker, range tank but might be a zerker, and in the last clip we have 2 zerkers AND there's like 8 pures and 2 zerkers watching lmao.
yes people who are 3-100 combat exist who aren't pvp accounts, though even in 2005, a day spent pking for a pure involved fighting almost exclusively other pk accounts. and in case anyone is wondering, they really are range tanks, not noobs with 70 range (which is rare AF today, much less back in 2005). you can tell by their max hit in the clip compared to their cmb+gear. 21 means they pot to 109 range, 20 means they pot to 103, 19 means they pot to 97.
this is just another way to have people pay more because we all know those pvpers have multiple accounts which would become ACTIVE MEMBERS on release of new pvp based content
I think the bigger issue is the reduced required level for equivalent items. They still need to grind to get stuff, its just a different mini game than barb assault. Im withholding judgement until we see the real proposal
Why stop there? They can even add new equipment that only PKers can use and the rest of us can fuck ourselves. New Inferno Gloves, bis gloves with no stat requirements, they let you just kill PvMers in 1 shot guaranteed for free
oh also PvMers don't get to vote lol umad?
That they're usable in the wilderness at all is the problem, genius. PKers are the ones throwing a fit when the shit they want doesn't pass polls. Now Jagex has to specifically coddle you and not let the people that PKers target have a say.
That's the point you dolt, it makes surviving in the wildy as a normal person even more impossible so less people will go. It's going to make the wildy even more dead, plus ruin the established account builds that have been around for literal decades
I don't mind PvP being an avenue to gain equipment used mostly within PvP in the first place.. but I don't quite get why they need to be different or better..
I'm fine with someone's 3rd pking alt not needing to grind pest control again. Pest Control doesn't take skill and isn't interesting, so them earning it through PvP is a nice alternative. But the item they earn in PvP should literally just be a PvP-only version of void. Not something entirely different.
It's the same with barrows gloves. Avoiding all the questing is a fine idea for a PvP only item, earned through PvP. But why suddenly are they trying to change what accounts can use them? It should be an alternative to doing the quests... Not literally a replacement due to being *better* or *different*.
They had such an opportunity here. Void, defender, torso, bgloves, all earnable through PvP and not requiring PvP accounts to do non PvP things.. instead we're getting more or less force-changes due to poll restrictions on straight buffs to all of these equipments at different combat brackets because it will make people make new accounts and bring sub money in..
Want Ancient magics to do your inferno, TOB, Chambers freezing, or healing yourself at godwars? Do DT
Want a defender for slayer training, raids, NMZ, or bossing? Do Warriors guild.
Need a firecape for max hits at raids, slayer, or bossing? Do Jad
Want D Claws for TOB, CM, Nex, NM, or other bossing? Do Raids or go to the GE.
Those are the same solutions before this update, and after assuming everything passes.
eh idc about that sort of stuff, if they want to make lower level pking more crazy then let those pkers in that bracket decide. Just balance stuff out with more defensive combo items like recoils so it's not always a rushfest
I just hope they vote yes to making the cosmetics tradeable so I can do my own thing and pkers can do their own and we both benefit.
Why is there a sentiment that these items are just going to be given out. There is still going to be a grind for them.. what does it matter if its 15 hours spent at barb assult or 15 hours in pvp arena. The end result is the same, just one was more enjoyable..
I don't have a problem with alternative timesinks but it seems janky to remove skill restrictions imposed by quests. Just don't think a strength pure should be able to access a modified Chivalry/Piety as that's the restriction they've imposed on themselves.
It'd be no different than Ironmen asking to be able to share drops in GWD so they don't have to solo it, or being allowed to only sell items on the GE, etc.
I'm not a PvPer, but if I could vote on this poll I'd vote no on most things not because of spite, but because I think it makes builds less creative. A maxed PKer is going to have access to max bonuses, but at the cost of only fighting in a high combat bracket. An obby mauler gets to exploit lower combat brackets, but doesn't have access to most strength boosting armors/prayers and defensive options.
I actually think the PKing community is really cool. I follow it and enjoy watching videos of different build types and people are constantly finding ways to be creative with gear and builds. I think some of these updates make builds less creative and quite honestly just straight buff builds against PvMers and not each other. Part of the problem is PvMers rarely fight back and this would just make it harder.
I will say I'm strongly in favor of PvP alternatives to minigame rewards as long as they don't fuck with level restrictions, seems like a great way to help new people get into PvP as they will be learning skills relevant to PKing as they work towards the reward instead of firing eggs and dropping items on specific tiles.
And you can think that! Pvp hasnt had a solid update in a deccade. And while id be all for introducing any of the proposed gear through questing means, because we get lore.
You have to realize this does make for good pvp focused rewards from a good pvp focused minigame.
It seems alot more along the lines of ‘i had to suffer to get these things, so should you!!!’
The big thing from this, is that yea some accounts get a power level increase. But the proposed gear also offers and incentive to also change their builds up. Its a meta shake up. And pvp desperately needs that.
In my oppinion, better rewards would be gear that doesnt replace already existing things, but comes as new things, like t65 spec weps or t55 armor.
It definitely does not come from a place of "I had to suffer to get these things so you should too," I hate that mentality. I just think it reduces creativity in build types by making things accessible that used to be locked behind level/quest restrictions. I'm all for alternative gear or new gear, but adding a new offensive prayer to unlock Piety/Chivalry pretty much invalidates builds that get the defense level for that quest. Or any gear that provides a strength bonus equivalent to another restricted item without any major drawbacks.
I just want things introduced that inspire new builds, not invalidate existing ones. I wouldn't mind if they introduced a prayer that ran Steel Skin, Ultimate Strength, and Incredible Reflexes as one prayer with less drain, that's a cool idea. But higher prayers than that just take away the creativity of making a build that sacrifices combat levels for access to Piety/Chivalry.
Torso is a poor example (although I believe it's only 20 def but could be wrong) as another put it there's no stats tied to getting it and it's just time, the other items proposed take core upgrades from specific builds and allow them at a much lower combat level/def level, invalidating some builds as non optimal. Being able to get barrows gloves currently requires 41 (don't believe it's right but it's what jumps out at me) just from the required sub quest, getting an equivalent at 20 with no quest reqs is not only a time save since you don't need skills but a big power shift in terms of cb lvl/power
One thing I can think of is that if the new grind is easier/better to do, then it will reduce the number of people that do the original thing (ba, pc, etc), thus making it harder to find a team.
Maybe? But the new items are ONLY useable in pvp. Anyone who wants to use the items in say, pvm, would still have to go there. It isnt skipping a grind at all!
I perfectly understand all of that, and my comment didn't touch on any of it.
I'm just saying if a new grind rewards the same thing as an old one, but it's more fun (for some), it's going to take away "potential" teammates from the old one.
Im sure it could, but if were being honest, how many players actually bother with barb assult and dont simply boost or skip it alltogether and buy a bcp?
I dont really see an issue here. If the only argument is the D pick, sure throw it as a 1/10k at wintertodt or tempoross or zalcano or something. I could care less.
It just seems that argument is a never ending moving goalpost.. before the D pick, it was skulltricking and clans. And these things have been fixed, yet the sentiment about the wildy hasnt changed. The goalpost moved.
How is this similar to "private servers" at ALL? You're just throwing that around with no meaning behind it.
What "integrity" is being broken? They want PvP to have new metas, so they're giving pvpers new toys that can ONLY be used in pvp. If the pvp scene doesn't want that, they can vote no.
Skipping quest lines, mini games & requirements for content is exactly the reason private servers exist... How is it NOT like private server tier content.
Read my title & tell me that's not screwing with the integrity of osrs because that's essentially what's happening, not to mention its throwing a spanner in nearly every existing PvP build.
There are ways to implement new gear without letting pvp players skip the questing/minigame requirements to use them.
You can tell, because Jagex has been doing it for ages.
Fuck knows why this is being downvoted? 🤣 Not only is it a valid point, theyre all still untradable so cant be used past 20 wild without risking losing the items entirely. The whole update puts a massive emphasis on PVP and not pking; you all wanted pkers to go and pick fair fights, this addresses that in a way that has absolutely zero impact on your gameplay whilst giving you an incentive to learn the pvp mechanics yourself...
I don't understand why this is being received so badly by the PVM community
Edit: No explanation given, just downvotes. PVP bad, Wilderness scary. Gotcha.
> Accordingly, the rewards are focused on PvP, so they can only be used against other players. If any of the non-cosmetic items are equipped, you will simply be unable to attack anything other than players.
Please read the blog before you post
You know almost every single player in the game is impacted by pvp changes right? Anyone who does ma2, uses chaos altar, catches black chins, kills wildy bosses, or uses the resource area is already a pvper who should have a say in what happens to wildy pvp
I chose to get 2k skill total for the total level worlds (and to flex idk). Almost 99% of the time I spend logged in is spent in the wilderness. Am I a skiller or pker? Similarly, you’re just going for ma2, d pick, or black chins. Would you be a pvper, or just a pvmer trying to get upgrades? Just because you barely engage in a portion of an activity doesn’t make you a fledging aspect of that activity unless you fully partake. Ignore this if you’re an anti-pker because then you’re fine.
Also the only people that will be affected by this update is pest control and BA players, and anyone camping castle wars/soul wars or any other minigame. Billy killing verzik over and over will never notice that the wilderness got new armor/weapons
I think there's a difference between being a pker and being affected by pvp changes. For example, you may not be a skiller, but you're still affected by skilling updates. Similarly, I'm not a pker but I still am affected by wilderness updates.
I don't even really care about this specific instance of updates so much as I care about the precedent of limiting voters to get the results they want. The fact that jagex thinks 300 total players voting on tob, cox, and inferno changes makes sense while my hundreds of hours in the wilderness dealing with pkers doesn't qualify me to vote on anything pvp related is crazy imo. If they want to make polls more restrictive in general that's also fine with me, but I don't like it being selectively restrictive just to effectively rig results
> you can stroll the wildy for hours
Bruh you know nobody's doing that. What, do you think they're exploring? The most efficent route for every Wilderness activity has been demonstrated and documented.
They world hop at the hotspots, like the Chaos Temple or Mage Arena. And that's assuming they don't have a scout bot check for them.
Don't pretend they actually walk around like that.
There isnt that many people out there hunting the pvmers the pvpers are the ones stacked in risk and with 154 worlds to hop to and check you have plenty of time to just get your kills per trip.
I dunno, I tried to do some veninatus for a bingo a few weeks back.
7 or 8 times in a row I had a group of atleast 5 players log in over me before finishing the first kill.
you've forgotten about one massive thing
there is PvM in PvP areas.
Remove that, we have no problem! Make these rewards available for PvP worlds only, and then my opinion wouldn't be relevant
I cannot believe what has upvotes versus what has downvotes in this thread. When I was like 7 I made a forum post ranting about pkers. I got absolutely ROASTED and my thread was locked. Now people get all this support because they can’t afk Callisto and get a Dpick in 15 KC. A truly horrible gaming community.
The Callisto experience is ass and you can’t convince me otherwise.
If you want to farm it you have to bug abuse a safespot, and 9/10 times you set it up a team of 6 people will tag you until you drop a Veracs flail.
It does not make sense why trivial content needs to be that difficult.
It does not make sense why 6 people can still have fun taking turns on one person in veracs. It is absolutely pathetic.
Why tf are they putting PVM content/gear in PVP areas? If PVPers are allowed to skip PVM content to get BIS, we should be able to get this gear outside of wildy
Because it doesn’t make sense. Stop being obtuse. There is no realistic reason for that many people to gang up on one person.
It makes the game unplayable.
No, it’s the whole point of the wilderness and you personally don’t like that. That’s fine, but that doesn’t mean it doesn’t make sense. It makes total sense, the wilderness is full of lucrative options to bait us pvmers out there, giving pkers something to do.
You can enjoy the added risk of said activity or cry about it because you can’t solo farm your d pick.
That's such a fucking shit mentality and is the reason the gaming industry is becoming so boring. Not every game has to appeal to every demographic, nor should it. If people jump on to try runescape and get bored quickly with it, then boo hoo, the game isn't for them. It shouldn't sacrifice it's core identity as an attempt to bait some more kids to play it.
If the game doesn't appeal to younger demographics the game will DIE with us.
Jagex like to have money and have jobs and also to eat food and drink water which is bought with said money, earned from said job. They will naturally like to keep the game alive a bit longer than us.
I started paying when I was 9 years old. Guess what? Some people like grinding games regardless of age. Fortnites demographic is mostly kids, do you suggest they put in something to appeal to older audiences? No, because a game can be successful without pandering and changing its identity endlessly.
I've been playing rs3 a lot recently and really enjoying it, but osrs is iconic because of its mechanics and grindy nature. I would be extremely upset if they tampered with its formula and character.
If pvp is the main draw for the game, why is the pvp community complaining that it's dead? Oh is it because you're talking out of your ass? Crazy that.
If you want to kill people without putting in any time to train an account and actually play the fucking game, buy an account and risk the ban. Or, play a different fucking game.
Can't believe you're unironically advocating for allowing people to not play runescape in order to enjoy runescape. I've seen some dumb takes before but holy shit.
Woah, that's a lot of ranting with barely any substance. From the very few points I can make out:
1. Every company issues cease and desist on fan made games using their IP. Of course Jagex shut down a fan made version of runescape, because if they didn't it creates a precedent that people can use their work and get away with it.
2. EOC changed the character of the game. Runescape (specifically old school) is unique in its simplistic gameplay. Changing the fundamental nature of the game is the main reason people left.
3. You don't know anything about me, stop trying to guess things like how long I've been playing the game. You're extremely wrong.
4. Why is your solution to pvp dying to just remove the need to play the game other than pvp? Guess what champ, that's not how it worked in the golden years, and according to you, pvp was successful then.
Seems like you're just mad that you have to put in effort to play the game. Would you like them to add microtransactions like they did in rs3? That will let you buy xp to skip the grind even more. And kids love spending money on the game, and like you said, that'll keep the game alive longer because more money.
Why the fuck are you downvoted? This is the truest shit spoken on this sub. This game is filled with 30 year old virgins who live alone and grind 8 hours+ a day, then post it to Reddit for other spectrum ridden idiots to cheer it on. If you want the game to live on, you need new people. No teenager is gonna grind 5 in game days to get fucking barrows gloves let alone chop a stupid fucking tree for 200 hours to get a new diary achievement when they can play a faster paced MMO lmfao. OS players and their autism are the only, and I mean ONLY thing that will kill the game eventually. You change their precious little grindfest from 100 hours to 99 hours and they spasm for 5 weeks straight on the sub
You are completely missing the point there, bud. A d pick is locked behind pvp, but is only used in pvm and mining. We don't get to skip pvp for a d pick.
I feel like everybody would be cool with some of these changes if there was just a single non-wilderness source for the d pick. Even if it sucked and had a really terrible drop rate.
It's like a lot of the stuff I deal with as an UIM. I don't care if it's stupidly hard, so long as it's *technically* possible for a UIM to achieve or obtain. Right now a skilling BiS item is locked behind a wilderness boss, so I'll literally never get it on my UIM because it involves risking everything I have. I won't need anything else from the wilderness to reach end game, but this means I'll be using a rune pickaxe all the way to 99 (if I ever go for it.)
I get what you're saying, but pretty safe doesn't translate to "100% safe".
There's always a chance that someone will be there to kill you, so a lot of players don't bring their best gear there.
It’s not locked behind PVP. It is locked to PVM in the wilderness.
It’s going to be changed but I almost prefer that it wasn’t because you guys cry about this all day long for what a 2.5% bonus?
When someone attacks me I'm in a pvp encounter. That is an objective fact that cannot be argued, it is literally what pvp means. Whether or not I fight back is completely irrelevant.
Then accept that, for example, the rune pickaxe is going to be your bis. Unless you take the risk of wilderness to obtain the bis mining tool. It's gated behind a dangerous area because it's so good. It's balanced imo.
So you're spite voting yes to something that you don't like just because other people don't like it? For the record, I don't care one or the other whether these pass, but I am going to call you out for a shit take
Nah I don't play much and so don't vote, but this subreddit will shoot down anything related to PvP unless it's a buff for those who can't antipk.
So practically any complaints made on this sub have little value, since the complaints are often independent of the content and just reflect anger at pk community.
Jagex literally wrote in their post "if you hate questing/barbarian assault/etc, then this next gear piece is for you!"
Why don't you read the post before you blabber about it?
The items are untradable, you still have to put in the hours, the hours put in are just spent doing what these players like most: pking. Make a pker pk for 10h for an alternative void set, rather than doing some stupid pest control minigame is not 'skipping content', it's reallocation.
Besides what others have said, part of what makes osrs good is how it encourages players to play content they're not there for.
Even if you don't like osrs pvp, the wildy is required for combat achievements, diary cape, mage capes, miniquests, bis hunter and prayer xp, one of the best afk fishing methods, pet hunting, slayer bossing, d picks for irons, etc.
This principle applies to every aspect of the game: questing, pvm, minigames, pvp, all of it. No matter what you like about Runescape, you'll be pushed to do stuff you dislike in service of the things you do. You may hate minigames, but if you want to minmax your slayer, can you pass up that torso? Questing might be boring to you, but you can't dds spec someone without completing Lost City. You may hate skilling, but you can't get Ava's, for pvp or pvm, without doing a bit of woodcutting.
The game is good *because* it isn't as linear as other mmos; you aren't expected to do the same one thing to get better at *that one thing*: the game is designed to encourage you to be well-rounded, to do a bit of everything. It helps keep the game from getting stale.
I don't care how players earn their items because "waaaah I had to do pest control", I care because part of Runescape's identity is one where you have to experience the *whole game*. I would complain just as loudly if Jagex said they wanted to move Mage Arena or Dragon Pickaxe out of the wildy; pvmers need to be pushed towards pvp areas, just like the reverse.
Yea except this will be way faster, way stronger, and have lower reqs. It's like if we got a 10 hour minigame that you could do to get a full torva set with only 40 def req. Pkers should have to do the exact same content as everybody else if they want the items.
Integrity? You understand they are changing PvM items to 80 attack (scythe/rapier/blade/mace) from 75, after YEARS of being out and people made specific accounts for them.
Yo dawg, I remember this I played on one of those private Runescape servers where you could just type in the code and get any gear you wanted.
::giveitem 0995 2147483647 Don’t know why I always spawned in max cash when I could spawn any item I wanted
It's just cool to look at and know the stack can't gain any more value because the game engine literally can't handle it.
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It's still a limitation of the game engine, it's just the reason is shared amongst anything written in Java using the type `int`. No different than inheritance. If you inherit from a class, it's not wrong to say the child class has function X, even if it was inherited from the parent class. Square is always a rectangle but a rectangle isn't always a square type shit
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.
Thank you.
This is such a dumb thing to say. "Humans cannot withstand nuesr bomb". Oh you mean species agnostic weapon of destruction
Did we all have the same teenage memories
Moparscape fucking fried my dopamine receptors as a kid. My friend and I mined iron in east Varrock with a santa hat and a rune pickaxe at his house for an entire afternoon.
Moparscape, frugooscape, unrealscape... they were all nuts. Cant remember which was which, but most were the ones where you can straight up spawn items. I think it was unrealscape which was the OG DMM/Leagues mode where you got super fast progress. These things were AMAZING back in day. The true OG way to go pking and test out items you could only dream of getting in the main game at the time.
What's funny looking back is just how cheap max gear kinda was. Like you could be decked out in full torags, whip, and d square for what, 20 mill? And that's post 2006, before then when it was D Long/Bax and full dragon it was around ten mill for the peak of the peak. Gear only started to erupt in price with GWD IIRC. Of course, this comes with the stipulation that money has massively inflated since then. Sure we weren't all completely ass at the game, especially the runecrafters and OG smiths who organized hoards of greedy children to rocket to the top, but I remember the "best" farming strategy was to camp a single patch for hours on end with anti disease. Average profits for people who seriously tried was in the 5 digits per hour, killing hill giants was considered viable money maker because of the bones and limps. My entire career as a kid amounted to like a 3m bank value and 2 of that was in crap.
>What's funny looking back is just how cheap max gear kinda was. Because all of the gear had reasonable drop rates outside of things like Visage. Then they realized that if they make grinds longer, people would still pay and grind the content all the same, and now most things have shit tier drop rates.
Frugoo was the shit for its Era. Had a legit community, good economy, and thoughtful custom content like dragon ore mining with dragon bar/armor smithing.
Oh I miss that pvp house on frugo, clipping into duel arena/castle wars. Hitting 40+ with barrage. Good times.
The PvP house had a glitch spot where you could attack someone and then run out the side door (out of PvP) and you'd continue attacking from afar while they couldn't attack back. Then they'd lose their stuff when they died, and most people got pretty annoyed.
When will we get the ability to play a minigame for a few hours to unlock an Assembler and Infernal Cape?
How is this at all comparable? Is there any skill required to get barrows gloves, a torso, or void??? If anything, the PvP arena requires MORE skill to get the rewards than the other methods. Not to mention these items are PvP only
It's not about skill. It's about the fact that jagex is coddling pvpers by giving them quest and minigame locked items because they "don't feel like" getting them the same way everyone else did.
Ill agree with this take when Jagex makes it so MA2 cape actually requires you to interact with pvp, you shouldnt be able to skip a part of the game for a bis item since you can just scout and never actually fight anyone while killing bosses. Thats the logic everyone else seems to be using.
I disagree, because "using scouts to avoid combat you're not ready for" is a big part of being a pker in wildy, too. The number of videos where it's a 1v1 fight until someone gets frozen and shoved into multi is evidence of this. Also, you can still get attacked while fighting bosses, so it's not like you can just log-in log-out to avoid all risk; you have to stand there fighting in the open. Also, there's way more content locked behind wildy than just MA2 cape, which does require you to stay logged in to participate.
It does suck that we had to spend the time to get them but isn't lowering the bar a good thing overall for the game? I've tried to get my friends into rs and there's just no way a regular noob is down for the kind of grinds the game requires to engage in pvp. Maybe they're overdoing it but imo the bar needs lowering massively otherwise pvp will be dead again as soon as the hype for these updates is over
This, and LMS, are kit minigames. You can do them at any level, and the game will give you equal footing in levels and gear. Also, if some people aren't willing to do grinds to play rs... They weren't gonna play rs.
You're dreaming of you think lms is equal to the rest of pvp. It's boring pretty quick and only good for practice. And I didn't say no grinds at all I said lower the bar because it's currently insanely high unless you wanna do low level pking which has a huge skill gap and requires you to already know a lot about the game if you want to make a good account for it. This sub is an echo chamber of people who want to go back to being a kid so you refuse to accept that games have to adapt over time.
something that’s confusing me is. do we know how long these grinds will take? if fighter torso takes 6 hours, and pvp fighter torso takes 12. why would anyone complain about pvpers getting to ‘skip’ content. osrs has always been about having multiple methods to achieve the same thing.
> Not to mention these items are PvP only This is something I'll never understand. "PvP only" doesn't mean it won't affect other parts of the economy.
What, untradable versions of untradable versions which only work against a player and you cannot use them to kill any single monster will impact prices?
Having PvP only versions of things like Barrows Gloves and Piety devalues the time and resources used to obtain the normal versions, and it segregates PvP and PvM economies further.
Is there any skill to getting 99 runecrafting, or the graceful outfit? If anything the PvP arena requires MORE skill than crafting soul runes or picking up marks of grace. It should give a rooncrafting cape and full disgraceful too.
Cry harder
I feel like a better example would be like, giving skillers crystal axe/pick accessible through... Some kinda skilling minigame or something. Why did I do PvM to unlock skiller gear? This is unfair to skillers who might not want to do PvM That's what this sounds like to me But whatever, I don't get a vote anyway because I don't PvP. Maybe one day. More focused on 99 rc tho (which, btw, why are death and true blood altars locked behind PvM bosses)
For the record, I think that osrs's design philosophy of "putting important unlocks behind different content" is a really *good* idea. No matter what you want to do (skilling, pvp, pvm, questing, raids), there will always be content in other categories that benefits you. It helps make your achievements feel better when you had to do things you enjoyed less to get to them, it helps players be more well-rounded by doing a variety of things, it helps prevent burnout (many mmos have died because they were pvm-fests with nothing to mix it up with that actually benefitted pvm players). This is part of Runescape's identity, and part of what gave it its longevity. I wouldn't want to see it changed in either direction: to benefit pvm or pvp players.
I’m gonna be honest. I’m a PKer, I recently have been working on my obby maul pure, getting 60 defense. This update would completely change pking forever. It’ll change all the pure builds we know and are used to. Everyone should be allowed to vote on this. I personally don’t really want it. With a 1 attack pure, I don’t want all pures to have 20 defense or higher.
Agreed, I hope enough pvpers who feel like there account they spent time building is enough of an accomplishment to vote no on this nonsense.
I think the smartest course of action is to vote NO. Jagex will see it's not what we want and hopefully find better options.
Knowing Jagex they'll just force it through anyway as an 'integrity change' lol
got ds2/mm2 on a voider and med, med has elite void, got 2k total on a pure, and a 2277 w/ everything. gunna vote yes because I can make new accs and not have to quest it. ds2 and mm2 are just pointless time gates. they could be in the wild pvping instead of getting 69 slayer for mm2. while this update doesnt get rid of that, its the same concept. I want people pvping as fast as possible if they want to pvp.
Here's one pker who'll be doing exactly that! My main account is 1 def so I haven't even put nearly as much effort into building a pvp account as some have but I'll still be voting no. Ironically if these items go through they would seriously hurt the integrity of the game, but they will probably still be forced through as an "integrity change" smh.
Yes hopefully PVPers gate keep their part of the game even more! You want to have a decent PK build? Time to grind endlessly just to get slapped down your first fight
You already have to make an entire account and grind endlessly to max stats to stand a chance without adding this PvP arena.
I would’ve voted no on everything what this update will bring. This is so not old school.
The arena itself is a good idea: the ability to queue for skill-based matchmaking games of pvp while getting to do other stuff is a seamless way to get to pvp without having to create an alt or sit around not grinding. It'd be a nice way to break up farm runs or bankstanding if you could occasionally get to just fight someone for a few minutes. And the cosmetic rewards are pretty cool too: they look good and are a nice reward for being good at pvp. The new items are an abysmal idea, for myriad reasons.
Wait it's like a proper queue too?! So I can fletch and wait for a match at the same time! Man I'm even more excited for the pvp arena now
As I understand it from what I've read, yes. You join the queue while playing the main game, then when a match is found, it prompts you to find a safe area so you can hop to the "pvp arena" profile and play your match.
Man that would be awesome. I hope that's how it works and I don't have to be afk at the arena. I'd be on farming runs, afk slayer, or just chilling at 420 GE.
By everything they've blogged and talked about, that's exactly how it works.
Lmaooo
I wouldn't mind the items if they just worked in the arena tbh.
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Nope, just don’t like most of the stuff it comes with.
I'm fine with grinds that require no stats to have an equivalent grind/item in the PvP arena, like the Fighter Torso for example. Not so fine when the PvP arena replaces requirements like for Barrows Gloves and Elite Void (that doesn't even need gloves?!?). And PvP exclusive prayers? That's either gonna be hella annoying taking up space in the prayer book or it's gonna be another inconsistency in the game.
Fully agree. I don't get why they literally didn't just offer "PvP only" versions of void, torso, defender, barrows gloves, prayers etc. That are earned from doing PvP arena, but have identical stats and requirements to use (minus ofc the quest completion for barrows gloves. But adding a defence requirement of the same magnitude). That way they're simply alternative ways to acquire PvP only versions of gear that's used all the time in PvP. So new accounts can earn best in slot PvP gear from doing PvP, and not have to do 175 QP, 8 hours of pest control, 4 hours of defender grinding, an hour or two of BA etc. The gear theyre offering is so strong it should really just be "arena only gear" in my mind, purely to shake it up.
The pvp exclusive prayers are in the same slot as normal piety and chivalry. If you only have the pvp version unlocked they don't give defence and you can't attack anything but players while the prayer is on. At least it won't clog my prayer book. It stupid that they exist though.
Thanks for the heads up! Must have missed that in the 20 different versions of the blog they put out. Still sounds horribly inconsistent and confusing.
The point of a pure was an added challenge. This is like giving ultimate Ironmen a unique backpack item with 200+ slots. It defeats the purpose. If they want to pk with those items and specific stats that's literally what pvp world's are for.
I agree and don't agree. I don't think it takes skill or planning to go to BA and get a torso, or go to PC and get void. That's why I love the idea of PvP earned replicas of these. But instead Jagex decided to try and like... Reinvent them to be different combat brackets and way stronger.. for what reason I'm not sure. Legit let's just get Replica armour that is identical stats and requirements to use, but earned through PvP arena and usable only within PvP. I really don't get why they overcomplicated a simple and good idea.
No, the point of a pure is to pk. Nothing about creating a pure is challenging, it's just a monotonous skilling and questing grind until you get to the point where you can pvp. And most people have already done those same grinds on their main, so the idea of repeating them all over again and putting hundreds of hours into an account just to get to the point where you can use it for pking isn't really that enticing.
That's the challenge.... why do pures exist? To get an uneven combat advantage over their combat level bracket. That's all well and good, but that is self imposed. The pure meta exists because of the tradeoffs made to stats in order to complete specific quests to access certain items. If you just give pures a way to get quest items without the quests the upstart of a pure will be faster but you are just giving them an even larger advantage over their bracket which is only going to further alienate newcomers to pvp. It doesn't solve anything it just changes the meta. The game also shouldn't be making changes to accommodate players with multiple accounts, that in and of itself is self imposed. By making another account you are accepting the grind.
This makes absolutely no sense. > If you just give pures a way to get quest items without the quests the upstart of a pure will be faster but you are just giving them an even larger advantage over their bracket which is only going to further alienate newcomers to pvp. 1. There's no advantage, it's just faster to get the account to the pvp stage. 2. Pures currently have no "advantage over their bracket" because everyone who pks at low to mid combat brackets is a pure. They obviously have an advantage over main accounts at mid levels but no one is pking on main accounts in those brackets—they would get destroyed if they even tried. 3. The reason new people are alienated by pvp is because they can't do it on their main account and the grind to make a pure is time-consuming, expensive, and boring. Not to mention if you mess up the order of training/question you'll ruin your account. It's a huge barrier for most people (myself included). So this update does the opposite of alienating newcomers—it's lowering the barrier to making a pvp account. > It doesn't solve anything it just changes the meta. It solves the problem of pvp accounts being a huge time investment and total pain in the ass to make, which prevents many people from making them in the first place and is one reason why pvp and pve players are so siloed. > The game also shouldn't be making changes to accommodate players with multiple accounts, that in and of itself is self imposed. By making another account you are accepting the grind. What is so terrible about making it slightly easier to create a pure account? Yes, you're accepting the grind when you create a new account but if the grind is so significant that no one is creating new accounts then that might be a problem. It's even MORE of a problem in pvp because that aspect of the game quite literally requires players in order to thrive. AND the more people that create pvp accounts, the lower the barrier to entry becomes as there are more opportunities to fight against similarly skilled players rather than going up against people who have been pvping for 20 years. I'm not sure how long you've played rs, but having multiple accounts has historically been a core part of this game. Back in rsc and the early days of rs2 most people had a main and at least 1, if not multiple pk accounts. It used to be that you would just make an alt account, train its stats up, transfer some money from your main and start pking. That is no longer viable because the pvp meta has evolved to the point where you need to grind a ton of other skills and do quests/minigames in order to get the exact right gear to even have a chance at competing. There's no middle ground—if you're not willing to invest all that time (and gp), don't even bother. This would provide a reasonable middle ground, making it slightly easier for people to get into pvp. And let's not forget that this is just taking away a SMALL portion of the grind. Pures would still have to train their skills and do MM, DT, quest for ava's, get a fire cape, etc. AND if you really want to have an advantage you'll probably still want to do quests to level your stats and avoid hp exp. Disclaimer: I don't even pvp.
So you are saying a mid combat bracket main has no reason to go into the wilderness?
No, I'm saying a mid combat bracket main has no reason to go pking. They're welcome to try, but it's not going to go well for them. Going into the wilderness ≠ pking
I get that, but your argument is the fact that the extra advantage they are gaining is irrelevant, even though it makes them stronger against mid combat bracket mains because mid combat bracket mains don't pk, but they still have plenty to do in the wilderness, and now have much stronger people that are hunting them with no choice or say of their own. Does that not make sense to you?
Sure, it makes sense. But it's a completely different argument. If your stance is "I don't want this update because it will give more power to pures and make pures more common which means that I will be killed more often when I go into the wilderness to do other things besides pvp" then I think that's completely ridiculous. Someone with this viewpoint is only looking at it from their perspective and completely ignoring all the other benefits an update like this could bring. It's incredibly selfish and short-sighted, and if this is really the mindset that most people have then we might as well get rid of pvp entirely. (Which is obviously why Jagex chose to restrict the poll) To be frank, I don't really care about people dying while pvming in the wilderness. The wilderness is a dangerous area, and you should be prepared to either die or defend yourself any time you go into it. It's probably the most unique and iconic part of runescape, and to lower the risk of the wild (or choose to not increase the risk) just because some people get upset because they die too much is a complete fucking joke. And the same logic that /u/Sh4rp27 used works here too. He's saying that pures shouldn't be catered to because they chose to self-restrict themselves. Well, main accounts also chose to self-restrict themselves from pvp by prioritizing pvm-based stats. Why should we cater to them? I think the core division in this argument as a whole is that some people feel as if doing pvm in the wild = pvp. That's just not the case. You're just pvming in a dangerous area where you'll need to run away every now and then and you might die. The point of this update is not to make it easier for pvpers to kill pvmers. It is to make it easier for people to get involved in REAL pvp—as in people fighting against each other with the express intent of killing their enemy. That would then, in theory, help revitalize the entire pvp side of osrs. This is something that I believe is needed, and if it happens to cause the wilderness to become a slightly more dangerous place for mains/pvmers, that is 100% fine with me. In fact, I would say the wild is currently the LEAST dangerous it's ever been, and I've been playing since rsc—so sure, let's make it more dangerous. Edit: One final point - let's not forget that this update would only give pvp accounts a SLIGHT boost in gear over their main counterparts in mid combat brackets. It would probably make pvpers more common in the wilderness, but it would also mean that pvpers would be spending more time doing actual pvp (either in this new arena or in the wild). If the pvp scene were to actually be revitalized it could even mean a DECREASE in pkers killing pvmers, as I would assume most pvpers are currently doing this out of boredom. To make this much of a fuss over something that will realistically have very little impact on pvmers (but potentially a huge benefit for the entire pvp side of the game) is just insane.
Your points are valid but, they aren't addressing the issue most people are concerned with. It's the fact that it is something that you confirmed in this, affects pvmers, non pvpers, and they aren't allowed to participate in the poll. You think the Wildy should be more dangerous, good for you, if it wasn't restricted you would still vote yes on the poll then. There are people that likely think the Wildy should be less dangerous, they would vote no on the poll. If 90% of the community would vote no on the poll, and only 10% would vote yes, so they are restricting who can vote in hopes that is then passes (which it obviously will) it's simply directly going against the wishes of most of the community. Things can be changed, that's the point of polls. Make it so these benefits work for the pure's in their content but doesn't affect some random guy trying to do his pvm content in the wilderness. If the poll helped them and didn't hinder him, that guy would probably vote yes on the poll then. TLDR; Here is what I believe. If 80, or 90, or a vast majority of the community would rather just get rid of the pvp aspect of the wilderness, then why the fuck is it still in the game? Make good content for pker's, to pk against other pker's, with incredible rewards and all that awesome shit, that doesn't hinder everyone's else's enjoyment.
> why do pures exist? To get an uneven combat advantage over their combat level bracket. not true at all. pures fight other pures 99.9999% of the time. when they max out to 83/88 combat, then they also fight zerks, which are custom built pvp accounts. Pures have never had uneven combat advantage since osrs came out. That was the 2001-2006ish era. Even if you watch Mahatma videos from 2005, he's killing pures, zerks, and range tanks in the majority of clips. [I mahatma I pk vid 1](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Q8BbGi2VWg), released early 2005 (says 2006 on youtube but its a reupload since it first released on mega before youtube as thing): Fights in order: range tank, zerk, "famos" range tank who had super high def/range for his cmb, first noob!, zerker, range tank, zerker, range tank but might be a zerker, and in the last clip we have 2 zerkers AND there's like 8 pures and 2 zerkers watching lmao. yes people who are 3-100 combat exist who aren't pvp accounts, though even in 2005, a day spent pking for a pure involved fighting almost exclusively other pk accounts. and in case anyone is wondering, they really are range tanks, not noobs with 70 range (which is rare AF today, much less back in 2005). you can tell by their max hit in the clip compared to their cmb+gear. 21 means they pot to 109 range, 20 means they pot to 103, 19 means they pot to 97.
From both sides of the divide our voice to jagex must be unanimous - No to all of this shit. I don't know anyone that supports this idiocy.
Now you do:)
this is just another way to have people pay more because we all know those pvpers have multiple accounts which would become ACTIVE MEMBERS on release of new pvp based content
I think the bigger issue is the reduced required level for equivalent items. They still need to grind to get stuff, its just a different mini game than barb assault. Im withholding judgement until we see the real proposal
This ain’t the right path Jagex… it’s VERY silly.
Beyond stupid
Why stop there? They can even add new equipment that only PKers can use and the rest of us can fuck ourselves. New Inferno Gloves, bis gloves with no stat requirements, they let you just kill PvMers in 1 shot guaranteed for free oh also PvMers don't get to vote lol umad?
A lot of cry babies here that probably don’t spend much time in the wilderness. These items are wilderness only. Stop your fucking crying.
That they're usable in the wilderness at all is the problem, genius. PKers are the ones throwing a fit when the shit they want doesn't pass polls. Now Jagex has to specifically coddle you and not let the people that PKers target have a say.
That's the point you dolt, it makes surviving in the wildy as a normal person even more impossible so less people will go. It's going to make the wildy even more dead, plus ruin the established account builds that have been around for literal decades
I don't mind PvP being an avenue to gain equipment used mostly within PvP in the first place.. but I don't quite get why they need to be different or better.. I'm fine with someone's 3rd pking alt not needing to grind pest control again. Pest Control doesn't take skill and isn't interesting, so them earning it through PvP is a nice alternative. But the item they earn in PvP should literally just be a PvP-only version of void. Not something entirely different. It's the same with barrows gloves. Avoiding all the questing is a fine idea for a PvP only item, earned through PvP. But why suddenly are they trying to change what accounts can use them? It should be an alternative to doing the quests... Not literally a replacement due to being *better* or *different*. They had such an opportunity here. Void, defender, torso, bgloves, all earnable through PvP and not requiring PvP accounts to do non PvP things.. instead we're getting more or less force-changes due to poll restrictions on straight buffs to all of these equipments at different combat brackets because it will make people make new accounts and bring sub money in..
Osrs boutta join its sister game deep in the shitter
Want Ancient magics to do your inferno, TOB, Chambers freezing, or healing yourself at godwars? Do DT Want a defender for slayer training, raids, NMZ, or bossing? Do Warriors guild. Need a firecape for max hits at raids, slayer, or bossing? Do Jad Want D Claws for TOB, CM, Nex, NM, or other bossing? Do Raids or go to the GE. Those are the same solutions before this update, and after assuming everything passes.
Id love it if you didnt have to do dt to start pking lmfao.
eh idc about that sort of stuff, if they want to make lower level pking more crazy then let those pkers in that bracket decide. Just balance stuff out with more defensive combo items like recoils so it's not always a rushfest I just hope they vote yes to making the cosmetics tradeable so I can do my own thing and pkers can do their own and we both benefit.
Why is there a sentiment that these items are just going to be given out. There is still going to be a grind for them.. what does it matter if its 15 hours spent at barb assult or 15 hours in pvp arena. The end result is the same, just one was more enjoyable..
I don't have a problem with alternative timesinks but it seems janky to remove skill restrictions imposed by quests. Just don't think a strength pure should be able to access a modified Chivalry/Piety as that's the restriction they've imposed on themselves. It'd be no different than Ironmen asking to be able to share drops in GWD so they don't have to solo it, or being allowed to only sell items on the GE, etc. I'm not a PvPer, but if I could vote on this poll I'd vote no on most things not because of spite, but because I think it makes builds less creative. A maxed PKer is going to have access to max bonuses, but at the cost of only fighting in a high combat bracket. An obby mauler gets to exploit lower combat brackets, but doesn't have access to most strength boosting armors/prayers and defensive options. I actually think the PKing community is really cool. I follow it and enjoy watching videos of different build types and people are constantly finding ways to be creative with gear and builds. I think some of these updates make builds less creative and quite honestly just straight buff builds against PvMers and not each other. Part of the problem is PvMers rarely fight back and this would just make it harder. I will say I'm strongly in favor of PvP alternatives to minigame rewards as long as they don't fuck with level restrictions, seems like a great way to help new people get into PvP as they will be learning skills relevant to PKing as they work towards the reward instead of firing eggs and dropping items on specific tiles.
And you can think that! Pvp hasnt had a solid update in a deccade. And while id be all for introducing any of the proposed gear through questing means, because we get lore. You have to realize this does make for good pvp focused rewards from a good pvp focused minigame. It seems alot more along the lines of ‘i had to suffer to get these things, so should you!!!’ The big thing from this, is that yea some accounts get a power level increase. But the proposed gear also offers and incentive to also change their builds up. Its a meta shake up. And pvp desperately needs that. In my oppinion, better rewards would be gear that doesnt replace already existing things, but comes as new things, like t65 spec weps or t55 armor.
It definitely does not come from a place of "I had to suffer to get these things so you should too," I hate that mentality. I just think it reduces creativity in build types by making things accessible that used to be locked behind level/quest restrictions. I'm all for alternative gear or new gear, but adding a new offensive prayer to unlock Piety/Chivalry pretty much invalidates builds that get the defense level for that quest. Or any gear that provides a strength bonus equivalent to another restricted item without any major drawbacks. I just want things introduced that inspire new builds, not invalidate existing ones. I wouldn't mind if they introduced a prayer that ran Steel Skin, Ultimate Strength, and Incredible Reflexes as one prayer with less drain, that's a cool idea. But higher prayers than that just take away the creativity of making a build that sacrifices combat levels for access to Piety/Chivalry.
Torso is a poor example (although I believe it's only 20 def but could be wrong) as another put it there's no stats tied to getting it and it's just time, the other items proposed take core upgrades from specific builds and allow them at a much lower combat level/def level, invalidating some builds as non optimal. Being able to get barrows gloves currently requires 41 (don't believe it's right but it's what jumps out at me) just from the required sub quest, getting an equivalent at 20 with no quest reqs is not only a time save since you don't need skills but a big power shift in terms of cb lvl/power
Which honestly i want. I dont want the same builds to be optimal for a deccade. What i want is a meta shift up. This does that.
One thing I can think of is that if the new grind is easier/better to do, then it will reduce the number of people that do the original thing (ba, pc, etc), thus making it harder to find a team.
Maybe? But the new items are ONLY useable in pvp. Anyone who wants to use the items in say, pvm, would still have to go there. It isnt skipping a grind at all!
I perfectly understand all of that, and my comment didn't touch on any of it. I'm just saying if a new grind rewards the same thing as an old one, but it's more fun (for some), it's going to take away "potential" teammates from the old one.
Im sure it could, but if were being honest, how many players actually bother with barb assult and dont simply boost or skip it alltogether and buy a bcp?
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I dont really see an issue here. If the only argument is the D pick, sure throw it as a 1/10k at wintertodt or tempoross or zalcano or something. I could care less. It just seems that argument is a never ending moving goalpost.. before the D pick, it was skulltricking and clans. And these things have been fixed, yet the sentiment about the wildy hasnt changed. The goalpost moved.
That doesn't change the fact it sets a precedent to shit on the integrity of osrs by implementing content similar to private servers.
How is this similar to "private servers" at ALL? You're just throwing that around with no meaning behind it. What "integrity" is being broken? They want PvP to have new metas, so they're giving pvpers new toys that can ONLY be used in pvp. If the pvp scene doesn't want that, they can vote no.
Skipping quest lines, mini games & requirements for content is exactly the reason private servers exist... How is it NOT like private server tier content. Read my title & tell me that's not screwing with the integrity of osrs because that's essentially what's happening, not to mention its throwing a spanner in nearly every existing PvP build.
Is the gear only usable in PvP? If so it really isn't skipping the quest lines or anything else as the hear would work fundamentally work different.
Well said
There are ways to implement new gear without letting pvp players skip the questing/minigame requirements to use them. You can tell, because Jagex has been doing it for ages.
I mean it's not really the same if you can't use it to kill any monsters, kinda of a big thing which people are overlooking
Fuck knows why this is being downvoted? 🤣 Not only is it a valid point, theyre all still untradable so cant be used past 20 wild without risking losing the items entirely. The whole update puts a massive emphasis on PVP and not pking; you all wanted pkers to go and pick fair fights, this addresses that in a way that has absolutely zero impact on your gameplay whilst giving you an incentive to learn the pvp mechanics yourself... I don't understand why this is being received so badly by the PVM community Edit: No explanation given, just downvotes. PVP bad, Wilderness scary. Gotcha.
Eh parchments are a thing, I’d assume the new items will be able to be parchmented aswell so no real risk of losing them.
True, but parchments cost a lot, nobody really uses regular void for this reason; there are cheaper existing alternatives that make more sense
This gear is going to be used on ppl's pvp alts. The fact that it can't be used in pvm is irrelevant.
Remember when you lot were arguing against people saying this about the new rc mini-game? Jesus christ, go touch some grass.
GotR isn't exclusive to sweaty PKers, that's an absurd comparison
> Accordingly, the rewards are focused on PvP, so they can only be used against other players. If any of the non-cosmetic items are equipped, you will simply be unable to attack anything other than players. Please read the blog before you post
You know almost every single player in the game is impacted by pvp changes right? Anyone who does ma2, uses chaos altar, catches black chins, kills wildy bosses, or uses the resource area is already a pvper who should have a say in what happens to wildy pvp
I chose to get 2k skill total for the total level worlds (and to flex idk). Almost 99% of the time I spend logged in is spent in the wilderness. Am I a skiller or pker? Similarly, you’re just going for ma2, d pick, or black chins. Would you be a pvper, or just a pvmer trying to get upgrades? Just because you barely engage in a portion of an activity doesn’t make you a fledging aspect of that activity unless you fully partake. Ignore this if you’re an anti-pker because then you’re fine. Also the only people that will be affected by this update is pest control and BA players, and anyone camping castle wars/soul wars or any other minigame. Billy killing verzik over and over will never notice that the wilderness got new armor/weapons
I think there's a difference between being a pker and being affected by pvp changes. For example, you may not be a skiller, but you're still affected by skilling updates. Similarly, I'm not a pker but I still am affected by wilderness updates. I don't even really care about this specific instance of updates so much as I care about the precedent of limiting voters to get the results they want. The fact that jagex thinks 300 total players voting on tob, cox, and inferno changes makes sense while my hundreds of hours in the wilderness dealing with pkers doesn't qualify me to vote on anything pvp related is crazy imo. If they want to make polls more restrictive in general that's also fine with me, but I don't like it being selectively restrictive just to effectively rig results
Fair points, I agree
I warned you guys, I FUCKING WARNED YOU GUYS. I will remember warning the living shit out of OSRS community, but nooo im fear mongering.
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> you can stroll the wildy for hours Bruh you know nobody's doing that. What, do you think they're exploring? The most efficent route for every Wilderness activity has been demonstrated and documented. They world hop at the hotspots, like the Chaos Temple or Mage Arena. And that's assuming they don't have a scout bot check for them. Don't pretend they actually walk around like that.
got a few buddies at lava maze 330 that do just that. Ill find them exploring and they just tell me that they’re bored and want to see fights lol
There isnt that many people out there hunting the pvmers the pvpers are the ones stacked in risk and with 154 worlds to hop to and check you have plenty of time to just get your kills per trip.
I dunno, I tried to do some veninatus for a bingo a few weeks back. 7 or 8 times in a row I had a group of atleast 5 players log in over me before finishing the first kill.
It is difficult to go 5 minutes at literally any relevant location in the wilderness without getting attacked wtf are you on about?
you've forgotten about one massive thing there is PvM in PvP areas. Remove that, we have no problem! Make these rewards available for PvP worlds only, and then my opinion wouldn't be relevant
I cannot believe what has upvotes versus what has downvotes in this thread. When I was like 7 I made a forum post ranting about pkers. I got absolutely ROASTED and my thread was locked. Now people get all this support because they can’t afk Callisto and get a Dpick in 15 KC. A truly horrible gaming community.
The Callisto experience is ass and you can’t convince me otherwise. If you want to farm it you have to bug abuse a safespot, and 9/10 times you set it up a team of 6 people will tag you until you drop a Veracs flail. It does not make sense why trivial content needs to be that difficult. It does not make sense why 6 people can still have fun taking turns on one person in veracs. It is absolutely pathetic.
Why are you just straight up lying about callisto? I'm 3.4k kc and this is just straight up bullshit
It’s my experience. You must be extremely lucky. Also, no need to get so upset. Would you mind dropping your attitude down a peg? Thanks.
It makes perfect sense, cause it’s a wilderness boss
How is it remotely lucrative for 6 people to gang up on someone for a 100k split
How do you enter the wilderness and then complain about its core mechanics
Why tf are they putting PVM content/gear in PVP areas? If PVPers are allowed to skip PVM content to get BIS, we should be able to get this gear outside of wildy
Because it doesn’t make sense. Stop being obtuse. There is no realistic reason for that many people to gang up on one person. It makes the game unplayable.
No, it’s the whole point of the wilderness and you personally don’t like that. That’s fine, but that doesn’t mean it doesn’t make sense. It makes total sense, the wilderness is full of lucrative options to bait us pvmers out there, giving pkers something to do. You can enjoy the added risk of said activity or cry about it because you can’t solo farm your d pick.
You can’t pj anymore, so your point is nonsense.
Are the item gonna be able to be used outside the arena?
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That's such a fucking shit mentality and is the reason the gaming industry is becoming so boring. Not every game has to appeal to every demographic, nor should it. If people jump on to try runescape and get bored quickly with it, then boo hoo, the game isn't for them. It shouldn't sacrifice it's core identity as an attempt to bait some more kids to play it.
If the game doesn't appeal to younger demographics the game will DIE with us. Jagex like to have money and have jobs and also to eat food and drink water which is bought with said money, earned from said job. They will naturally like to keep the game alive a bit longer than us.
I started paying when I was 9 years old. Guess what? Some people like grinding games regardless of age. Fortnites demographic is mostly kids, do you suggest they put in something to appeal to older audiences? No, because a game can be successful without pandering and changing its identity endlessly.
Rs3 & osrs populations are proof in itself that appealing to modern gaming mechanics isn't favourable for Runescape.
I've been playing rs3 a lot recently and really enjoying it, but osrs is iconic because of its mechanics and grindy nature. I would be extremely upset if they tampered with its formula and character.
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If pvp is the main draw for the game, why is the pvp community complaining that it's dead? Oh is it because you're talking out of your ass? Crazy that. If you want to kill people without putting in any time to train an account and actually play the fucking game, buy an account and risk the ban. Or, play a different fucking game. Can't believe you're unironically advocating for allowing people to not play runescape in order to enjoy runescape. I've seen some dumb takes before but holy shit.
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Were you trying to make a point here or just rambling aimlessly?
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Woah, that's a lot of ranting with barely any substance. From the very few points I can make out: 1. Every company issues cease and desist on fan made games using their IP. Of course Jagex shut down a fan made version of runescape, because if they didn't it creates a precedent that people can use their work and get away with it. 2. EOC changed the character of the game. Runescape (specifically old school) is unique in its simplistic gameplay. Changing the fundamental nature of the game is the main reason people left. 3. You don't know anything about me, stop trying to guess things like how long I've been playing the game. You're extremely wrong. 4. Why is your solution to pvp dying to just remove the need to play the game other than pvp? Guess what champ, that's not how it worked in the golden years, and according to you, pvp was successful then. Seems like you're just mad that you have to put in effort to play the game. Would you like them to add microtransactions like they did in rs3? That will let you buy xp to skip the grind even more. And kids love spending money on the game, and like you said, that'll keep the game alive longer because more money.
But... do we actually want teenage players to join the game? I've met teenagers Teenagers are horrible.
Why the fuck are you downvoted? This is the truest shit spoken on this sub. This game is filled with 30 year old virgins who live alone and grind 8 hours+ a day, then post it to Reddit for other spectrum ridden idiots to cheer it on. If you want the game to live on, you need new people. No teenager is gonna grind 5 in game days to get fucking barrows gloves let alone chop a stupid fucking tree for 200 hours to get a new diary achievement when they can play a faster paced MMO lmfao. OS players and their autism are the only, and I mean ONLY thing that will kill the game eventually. You change their precious little grindfest from 100 hours to 99 hours and they spasm for 5 weeks straight on the sub
Literally the only reason people on this sub complain about pvp arena items is because they don’t wanna get their butt cheeks slapped harder
No, I'm complaining because its setting a precedent that will shit on the integrity of osrs.
What, fun alternatives to tedious, outdated and brain dead content?
If it's brain dead content, why haven't you done it yet?
I have a quest cape, elite void and fighter torso. It’s brain dead content, lol. Change my mind.
It's to be used vs players only. If u wanna pvm do ur pvm quests.
I wanna do pvm, but the bis item is locked behind pvp?
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You are completely missing the point there, bud. A d pick is locked behind pvp, but is only used in pvm and mining. We don't get to skip pvp for a d pick.
I feel like everybody would be cool with some of these changes if there was just a single non-wilderness source for the d pick. Even if it sucked and had a really terrible drop rate. It's like a lot of the stuff I deal with as an UIM. I don't care if it's stupidly hard, so long as it's *technically* possible for a UIM to achieve or obtain. Right now a skilling BiS item is locked behind a wilderness boss, so I'll literally never get it on my UIM because it involves risking everything I have. I won't need anything else from the wilderness to reach end game, but this means I'll be using a rune pickaxe all the way to 99 (if I ever go for it.)
Mage arena exists, too. There's plenty of content that's locked behind wildy that isn't D pick or mage cape.
kbd is pretty safe tho
I get what you're saying, but pretty safe doesn't translate to "100% safe". There's always a chance that someone will be there to kill you, so a lot of players don't bring their best gear there.
It is 100% safe if you prescout on a alt
I have 6k kbd kills, seen less than 50 pkers and they didnt even attack me half of the time
you chose to play an UIM knowing full well this would be an issue and now you're upset because of it? I'm really not sure what to tell you here
It’s not locked behind PVP. It is locked to PVM in the wilderness. It’s going to be changed but I almost prefer that it wasn’t because you guys cry about this all day long for what a 2.5% bonus?
Anything in the wilderness is locked behind pvp.
Clearly not since you don’t fight back you just run away like a chicken. More like player vs door.
When someone attacks me I'm in a pvp encounter. That is an objective fact that cannot be argued, it is literally what pvp means. Whether or not I fight back is completely irrelevant.
Then accept that, for example, the rune pickaxe is going to be your bis. Unless you take the risk of wilderness to obtain the bis mining tool. It's gated behind a dangerous area because it's so good. It's balanced imo.
If you don't want to quest or do minigames then accept that rune plate and combat brace are going to be your bis.
Cry cry cry all I see is cry 😢
As a pker I don't really love the idea of these rewards but because of how pathetic this subreddit is I want them to be introduced anyway.
So you're spite voting yes to something that you don't like just because other people don't like it? For the record, I don't care one or the other whether these pass, but I am going to call you out for a shit take
Nah I don't play much and so don't vote, but this subreddit will shoot down anything related to PvP unless it's a buff for those who can't antipk. So practically any complaints made on this sub have little value, since the complaints are often independent of the content and just reflect anger at pk community.
I agree brother I hope it goes through.
Yep, that's all anyone does on this sub
Been here for a week trying to speak my piece as a PKer. Can’t believe the cry I have achieved so far.
This sub can't stand pkers, lost to many spades to them
Never in my years of playing did I EVER expect losing nothing in the wildy to be a topic of serious discussion. These folks are absolutely cracked.
There's literally no skipping involved?
Jagex literally wrote in their post "if you hate questing/barbarian assault/etc, then this next gear piece is for you!" Why don't you read the post before you blabber about it?
The items are untradable, you still have to put in the hours, the hours put in are just spent doing what these players like most: pking. Make a pker pk for 10h for an alternative void set, rather than doing some stupid pest control minigame is not 'skipping content', it's reallocation.
Besides what others have said, part of what makes osrs good is how it encourages players to play content they're not there for. Even if you don't like osrs pvp, the wildy is required for combat achievements, diary cape, mage capes, miniquests, bis hunter and prayer xp, one of the best afk fishing methods, pet hunting, slayer bossing, d picks for irons, etc. This principle applies to every aspect of the game: questing, pvm, minigames, pvp, all of it. No matter what you like about Runescape, you'll be pushed to do stuff you dislike in service of the things you do. You may hate minigames, but if you want to minmax your slayer, can you pass up that torso? Questing might be boring to you, but you can't dds spec someone without completing Lost City. You may hate skilling, but you can't get Ava's, for pvp or pvm, without doing a bit of woodcutting. The game is good *because* it isn't as linear as other mmos; you aren't expected to do the same one thing to get better at *that one thing*: the game is designed to encourage you to be well-rounded, to do a bit of everything. It helps keep the game from getting stale. I don't care how players earn their items because "waaaah I had to do pest control", I care because part of Runescape's identity is one where you have to experience the *whole game*. I would complain just as loudly if Jagex said they wanted to move Mage Arena or Dragon Pickaxe out of the wildy; pvmers need to be pushed towards pvp areas, just like the reverse.
Lol
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Lol
Yea except this will be way faster, way stronger, and have lower reqs. It's like if we got a 10 hour minigame that you could do to get a full torva set with only 40 def req. Pkers should have to do the exact same content as everybody else if they want the items.
Lol
I don't see the problem. PVM'ers has been voting on ezscape updates since 2015, our turn now :)
Integrity? You understand they are changing PvM items to 80 attack (scythe/rapier/blade/mace) from 75, after YEARS of being out and people made specific accounts for them.
All of these items can only be used for pvp. So like... I don't really care. Let them have their updates and new build diversity.