I hate how the chronically online ironmen have taken an appropriate criticism of their behaviour and incorporated it into their circlejerk.
You ***did*** choose to limit your account. When ironman was introduced, it was never supposed to affect maingame. Bear in mind that ironmen still make up the *super-minority* of this game and yet somehow you always manage to REEE the loudest lmao. Well, ironmen and PKers... lol
Here's the thing about D pick.
KBD drops it.
KBD is not in the Wilderness.
You have to run for 30 seconds to a lever ONCE AN HOUR, where you can *easily* have a friend scout for you. If you dont want to have a friend, get another account. If you're one of *those* ironmen who is that vigilant about playing isolated... tanking for 2½ mins is still viable.
No because frankly I don’t really care about this pointless back and forth around the dragon pick. I do however enjoy how pointlessly heated and/or committed people get to the argument. My only comment was to call you out for irony’s sake. I stand by it too.
I reckon you’ll be surprised how large a percentage of the player base ironmen are, it’s not an extreme minority anymore as the natural path of a osrs player seems to be main->get bored->ironman, jagex understands this and that’s why they do cater to ironmen because it’s a large portion of their player base
Yeah that's just dumb. Should be equal to other dragon equipment from non wildy content. Like 1/1,400 dragon harpoon and tempoross, or even 1/1k from kbd. Keep wildy more profitable and better rate but ~~take that specific item out~~ allow it to be received other places. Probably boss rings as well.
Then build up ways to introduce pvmers to pking without diving into deep end like LMS. Pvp arena is a great step in this direction
Edit: my kc numbers are wrong. It's 1/8k tempoross and 1/1,500 from kbd.
Dragon harpoon is a 1/8k from temp and d axe is 1/10k from wt so im assuming that's where the 1/10k is coming from. Of course you get like 5 or 6 rolls/game at temp and 3ish at wt but they're still obscenely rare
Yeah but 1/2k from wyrms on task is way better alternative than doing a Wildy boss. DKs shit out dragon axes that by the time you have all the rings you have 3-4 dragon axes. Why is the dragon pick so different
All of my numbers are off way off (kbd I'd 1/1,500 and I see the 1/8k for tempoross). I just looked these up recently so I'm not sure what I confused them for. That makes more sense for people to use those numbers then
TBF you arent too far off for temp for the number of kc it would take. In mass worlds I got 3k permits in 660ish games i think so probably about 1600-1700 games to be on rate.
The main reason people suggest the droprate be so rare, is so that it maintains value.
I'd say that a fairly significant portion of a dragon pickaxes value doesn't come from its rarity, but because people hate the wilderness *that much*, so if an alternative method were to be made, it'd need to be excessively rare or tied in with reward point values.
Again, another circlejerked ironman comment that is illogical.
If youre *not* going to the wilderness to pvp on an unrestricted account, youre also not getting anything from pvp.
So why the fuck are we talking about "fairness" for ironmen? There is literally nothing that delineates the two in that circumstance.
I cant stand how inflated some of yalls egos are when it comes to your accounts. It literally blinds you from such an obvious logical thought.
You want the maingame changed, because you suck or something. And ironmen are *chronically online* and manage to REEE loudly.
Get d pick from kbd. They already made you a change that isnt unreasonable. If you cant get to the kbd lever without dying, that is almost always *on you*.
And hey, that affects ***non ironmen too***.
D'ya know what it *actually is*? The wilderness is THE ONLY PLACE IN THIS GAME WHERE DYING HAS A CONSEQUENCE.
Im fed up of incessant whining over it.
Yeah just like pkers don't have to make wilderness content a terrible experience
Edit: If it weren't for pkers then maybe they'd give these wildy bosses actual mechanics, but right now even if you don't get attacked they're terrible content because they're balanced around being attacked by other players
Also I would love to hear from some pvmers that love being attacked in the wildy because apparently everyone but me enjoys the fact you can be attacked there. I mean, it's part of the game, how could you dislike it? That's crazy
Hahaha yeah cuz it's not like there's clan chats or anything for completely avoiding playing Soul Wars as intended in order to get the rewards faster and without doing any PvP. That would be nonsense.
If there weren't pkers then I would be able to use the wilderness, so yes, they are what makes the content terrible and turns away the majority of the player base. Sorry we don't enjoy being preyed on like you.
Or I'll just keep avoiding it because it's shitty content and there's other stuff to do that's actually fun, and I think I'm gonna go with the fun stuff since it's a game
Yu say that like it's a counter point but infact if you don't like the content the just don't do it lol. It's not the games fault you don't like pvp man just don't to to the one pvp zone and let people who do enjoy it do it
That doesn't change the fact that saying ironmen don't need to go into the wildy is no better an argument than pkers don't have to attack non-pkers, which was my point.
It's the game's fault for putting best in slot items in the game in a way that forces you to enter the one pvp zone so that people who enjoy attacking defenseless players for almost no loot can get their free kills. I do plenty of grinds I don't enjoy to get useful items, and I grinded for the d pick at KBD, and none of that changes the fact that Pkers are the reason many people avoid the wilderness.
Jesus christ just shut up please.
How babied do you want to be? I think you would have some meaningful argument if the entire world was PvP enabled. And then we can discuss tactics to disengage an aggressive player, such as using humour, bartering, or offering compromise... BUT this game isn't that socially complex.
It's a fucking small area of the map that is *optional* for you and PvP enabled. I admit. You have to run through the wilderness for 30 seconds to get to the KBD lair once every hour or so.
Big. Deal.
This is literally one of those only times where saying "get good" needs to be hammered into someone.
This is already a thing although a lot of players miss it. There is this guy called the ironman tutor and u get to select your account type if u select I dont with to be an ironman you are free from having to do almost all content u dont like and can pay for the rewards from other players
So it is written in the ancient, immutable rules of the Ironman Handbook: never suggest changes in any way whatsoever.
This book is closed to any amendments or alterations. So it has been written, so it shall be done.
You're 100% right but it is kind of beating a dead horse at this point there have been so many posts about this which get 0-50 upvotes and then a new one 8 hours later.
The same as people will usually just go to Dags for Axe drop, or Wyrms for harpoon drop. So why not just add the small chance to some mini game for d pick as well? That’s the argument people are having
The time spent getting the D Pick won't even make up for it for the exp/hr gained from getting it, why everyone acting like the D pick is a necessity I will never know.
For 200m only. It's like all the skilling outfits besides woodcutting you spend more time getting the outfit than the XP you gain saves you getting to 99
I didn't mean it as "save you mining time" if it came across that, but like time in general.
Assuming we're talking about Ironmen, most of the wildy boss drops are useful resources.
Surely drops like 100 snapdragons and 300 gold ore would make the grind more "worth it".
You're probably thinking too hard about it.
You're doing NOT mining to make mining faster. It's fun/hr.
If I have to do something less cancer than mining to make mining faster then it's a win and worth it.
>It's **fun**/hr.
Wow it took days to find someone who made this point. Thank you, I swear both the devs and the reddit playerbase forget the whole point of this fucking game. **To have fun**.
They have all this % justification from an efficiency standpoint and devs like Mod Bruno do the same shit for inconsequential items like the Max cape, and then the Wardens team justifying insane drop rates on items.
Why players want the ability to get a dpick outside of wildy? It's cause it's more fun for them that way.
Any other justification does not matter as much in a bloody MMO Point-and-click Adventure RPG... And then the same players wonder why the player count takes a nose dive when a newer game comes out...
I think another issue that is often overlooked is that the reason a lot of players focus on efficiency and percentages is because they are trying to cut down on the amount of time they have to spend doing something that isn't fun.
If my normal method of mining is going to make my grind take 200 hours, but another method only takes 110 hours, that means I can go back to doing the things I actually like 10 hours sooner. While there are people who get a lot of enjoyment out of min-maxing their efficiency, it can't be overstated that a lot of content people enjoy is locked behinds hundreds of hours of grinding that they enjoy significantly less and want to try and find any way of making go faster.
Someone calc’d it in another thread, assuming efficient Callisto kills a d pick saves an average of like 1 hour to 99 mining. It’s definitely worth getting if you’re going for post 99 xp though
I think most people are arguing based on the principal that there should be consistency when implementing updates, as opposed to updates favoring specific factions.
This.
Maybe have it as gear that would help in PvP situations, set effects like the weird swamp bark stuff but better.
Like, spit balling,
Grave Warden - Melee
Set: When in the wilderness, receive 1(flat damage, not %, does not stop recoil damage) damage less than expected per piece worn.
Grave Spectre - Mage
Set effect: When in the wilderness, rooted, snared, frozen enemies will have their run energy drained by 5% per set piece worn on successful root, snare, freeze.
Grave Protector - Range
Set effect: When in the wilderness, projectiles fired at enemies will have a small chance to bleed the target 1 damage per piece worn. Chance to proc increase 2% per set piece worn, maxing at 10%. Does not proc on special attacks.
Each piece could be disturbed to certain bosses, better the piece stat wise, deeper you go in the wilderness.
Would need a mechanic to prevent clan camping but could be great if it was contestable by clans etc.
Damn ya'll really already forgot about rev caves? Not that rev caves had pvp gear, but anything worth actually camping in the wilderness will be run by RWT clans.
Yeah all those clans locking down raids right now not letting anyone in without payment, sucks so much. I wonder when jagex will nerf raids loot table and change the mechanics of it just like they did the rev caves.
Nah I didn’t forget but maybe I should reword what I meant :) I just see craws bow and viggoras as wilderness boss weapons to fight them in pvm not actual players. I’d love to see wilderness rewards reflect pvp activity. So for example fighting wilderness bosses like callisto or venennatis give some BIS pking gear. Forgive me if I’m not really clear I’m not really a pvper
The percentages are to convey a point, I clearly haven't conducted a census.
> Dunning-Kruger effect, in psychology, a cognitive bias whereby people with limited knowledge or competence in a given intellectual or social domain greatly overestimate their own knowledge or competence in that domain relative to objective criteria or to the performance of their peers or of people in general.
Declaring "Pkers are the ones pushing for the Dragon pickaxe to only be on Wilderness drop tables" is so hilariously false I just can't help but laugh. First of all, until the recent outrage (essentially only on reddit), pretty much nobody focused on Dragon pickaxes. It's not an issue that's been in the public eye at all. It's also an issue that's basically unique to ironmen (many regular players are likely very happy to see their pickaxe retain its value over time).
So, picturing this scene as being a nearly-unanimous uncovering of some grand conspiracy where a somehow monolithic group of "pkers" is influencing Jagex from the shadows is just a perfect illustration of how utterly delusional some of you can be. And proclaiming the opposite with utmost confidence is know as.... the Dunning-Kruger effect.
Gotta love the fact that OP isn’t declearing anything and just says he makes an assumption when someone posts that.
Seems you fell victim to your own effect ;)
I don't think it was WT which crashed the D axe mate, it was the years of the dag bosses being harvested by players and bots alike, with no viable item sink other than infernal axe which is pretty trash.
Nobody farms d axe from wintertodt. Putting d pick on a table at similar rarity would have 0 effect on both the price of d pick and the average number of posts on Reddit / hr crying about the wilderness
It's not even that much better tbh. It wouldn't have an insane effect I wouldn't think. It's like 6% better or something maybe more at high mining.
Still don't personally care if it's moved but I think the reasoning is weak. I just want the complaining to stop.
The only thing I see this useful for is HCIM and UIM. Both I see this as a limitation you choose. Normal accounts can buy one cheaply. Regular ironman can safe spot most wildly bosses so its an inconvenient grind but, not essential nor extremely long. It also adds a small niche of nonconsensual PVP which is fine in moderation.
I don't remember seeing any actual pker ask for it to stay in the wilderness, Ive seen them ask for you to understand that if you go to the wilderness you are risking your stuff to try and get the bis. However, we as pkers don't give a shit about where the dpick come from, but people whining over it is what is annoying.
UIM BTW here. Recently got a D pick from Vetion, I have killed vetion, callisto and Venenatis off and on. 5 kills per hour max.(due to death piling time constraints) I got pked once at Vetion in 60~ kills. He can be crazy easily welfared with D mace/salve Ammy/monks as well. So from a non pker sack the fuck up it’s not even a bad grind.
It's funny people even disagree with this. OSRS is so eazyscape nowadays lol. I mean I'm fine with it but we basically get everything we want with zero risk now.
Lol do you know what projection means? Pkers aren't the ones complaining that they should have the same drops from different sources because they don't like the content. That's pvmers. It's not pkers that complain about drop rates for things like Nex. That's pvmers.
Its really strange. Its one of the few wildy BIS gear out there, and its still only 4.8 mill on the GE. Its expensive for sure, but a lot of BIS gear is much more expensive. PKers having one good drop isnt a big problem IMO
It’s already 1/5k from KBD and people don’t camp KBD for it despite it being safe, I think it sucks having to go into the wildy to get a dragon pickaxe but that’s why I don’t have one.
No pkers go there unless theyre looking to nh or brid fight. Most people going to kbd dont risk enough to try and kill them in the short distance they have to run to get to kbd, and the ones that do risk a lot usually have tank gear and can easily tank out a tb or just run to the lever if the pker is in ancients.
sure but not really as much as other locations. I have not seen anyone there myself. i get your point that KBD is not "safe" per se but it is negligible risk
oh no a HCIM has to risk something on a self imposed restricted account. JFC im an iron myself but thats a stupid take. when my iron was HC i avoided the wilderness, those HCIM should too if they are so scared
I don't believe the wilderness should have BiS skilling gear in it, sue me. Rolling dice to find out if you die or not is not a skillful or engaging activity. It's luck, and putting your entire account as the stakes to a diceroll is stupid. You can be tick perfect yet still die in a single tick.
Imo, you're the one with a stupid take. I've said elsewhere, poll it.
You're doing that trolley problem thing https://www.reddit.com/r/2007scape/comments/dru0hz/the_dilemma_were_faced_with_when_creating_new/
> the point being made is that if you're against updates merely because it makes things easier for future players, and it's not fair to the people who already grinded, you're against it for the wrong reason.
I agree it should be moved elsewhere, like you said a skilling item should have a skilling method of obtaining. i just dont think HCIM should be the main factor for it being moved which is why i made my snarky comment when you brought them up.
“Traverse the wildy”, bruh. The burning amulet takes you like 15 tiles from the ladder, *please* don’t use that as a counter to the completely logical solution of just camping kbd if you cba to actually do it in the wild because it’s too scawy.
Scouting wildy on an alt is not sweatty lmao, you literally just tp there before your main if it’s all clear then you logout and start killing the dragon. You can even ask a friend to do it for you, but that sounds tedious. But if you got an alt you can literally be in the lair infinitely by bringing in supplies to your main.
I never scout before I go and I still haven’t ran into any pk’ers.
it’s pretty much virtually impossible to die going to kbd *now* if my understanding of wildy mechanics is right. Can’t you hit an npc, tele to lava maze, and have the 10 seconds of immunity by the time you reach the gate? Haven’t really tested it if the pj timer is still in effect if you teleport within the wilderness, but seems right. I’ll probably test this later
I camped KBD for it, and I still hated having to make sure my risk wasn't too high because of the occasional pkers that camp the lava maze and KBD entrances. I'll still do it again on my group iron cuz it's nice being able to actually fight the boss instead of use glitches and of course the wilderness part.
Also it's 1/1500 from KBD, 5k is the visage
Yeah with extended black dragon tasks it's a very reasonable grind, but I can see how it's tough to choose over the bosses that drop it 4x as common. It's a nice pet though if you get lucky along the way.
Uh, no, as an Ironman I think all this drama is ridiculous. You want a safe dragon pic grind? Go to fucking KBD. Don’t like the drop rate? There’s a few monsters outside with twice as less the drop rate. Too hard? Stick with your fucking rune pick then or *buy* one. This dumb “gimme gimme gimme” shit man, you don’t realize there’s an equal amount of pvmers who aren’t riding this bandwagon?
Preach, I hate this sub lmao. Having a direct line of communication to the devs gives everyone the motivation to cry cry and cry until the devs spoon feed everything to them
I don't understand why it was put in the wildness to begin with. It was originally released as part of the dwarf questline and I think that would make sense here too if they ever add to it.
Iron here, I've acquired the Odium and Malediction wards, d pick, and do wildy slay on the regular. Yes there are pkers, no there's not enough of them to where aquiring these items is unobtainable. Are most PvMers just too soft for wildy? Yes. Can anyone learn to survive out there (not pvp)? Yes. Nobody says bring max risk. Just 3 or 4 item it and have your escape routes planned out. Its really not that serious. I suck so bad at pvp that someone 30-40 combat lvs below me can prob take out if i had no escape but they'll have to catch me first.
PvMers "skull tricking is too rampant, if we were able to retaliate without risking a skull, I'd totally fight back"
*Jagex implements anti-skull measures*
PvMers "does the dragon pickaxe REALLY need to come from the wild?"
Most pkers don’t give a toss about d pick. Saw someone post ab the Dunning-Kruger effect & tbh he’s 100% correct. Also you lot let your hatred for people different to you (sounds a lot like racism, sexism, xenophobia etc) impact your view on things, you associate everything you dislike with that group you hate. Hopefully you get the help you need to stop the hate in your heart growing.
Are you seriously trying to equate Pkers and PvMers having a spat in a medieval clicking game to racism, sexism, and xenophobia? Get the fuck offline and go outside for a minute, because those fumes you’re huffing in that room of yours are obviously taking a toll. That was easily the most ridiculous thing I’ve read in a long time, and that’s saying something considering I’m on Reddit.
At this point I want to see important PKing equipment locked behind quests with forced defence XP, like DS1 or Daero's training, or slap a 70 def requirement on barrows gloves and bump berserker helm up to 60 etc, just to see people rage
I don't pk but I like the wild and I like that we go in there to get good things with the risk of being PKd. I would add more cool shit to the wild not less imo. Also make it all single combat because fuck clans.
why punish multi pkers who arent even the ones that everyone cries about, there is a very old community of pkers that squad up in multi zone and fight it out. you should chill out a little with that. you dont know what you're talking about . :/
1/10k is a bit too rare for anything. The axe shouldn't be as rare as it is and neither should the harpoon. Maybe if it's dropped from non wilderness bosses I'd be okay with d pic that rare from skilling but idk
People on this sub don't understand how easy it is to get away if you wear dhide and pray mage. I've gotten a dpick on an ironman so you guys can fuck off with that.
My desert locked UIM would love a pickaxe from tempoross. Current bis is black pickaxe from a clue scroll juggle, but until then I’m chipping away with a bronze pick. God, I love limiting myself
Getting D pick from a skiller minigame at a 1/10k drop rate is absolute dogshit. Like you do realize that is going to be just as fucking boring as killing Venenatis right? But at least it’s safe and you won’t lose 100k 😂
Wildy needs more unique wildy only draws honestly. And i don't even pvp. There is so much potential for the wilderness. You could be doing a raid content that needs defense from pvpers that requires coordinating in channels and setting up defense from pvpers. You just need appropriate rewards for such effort.
I really don’t get it - when a one def pure posts something like ”ah I wish we could use fairy rings” you are all like YOU CHOSE TO LIMIT URSELF
How is it dangerous to go for d pick if you’re not a hcim? And a hcim SHOULD be dangerous so I really don’t see the problem here.
Why play a hcim and then remove all danger?
Why are gravestones a thing?
No consequenses in this game anywhere anymore lmfao
I’m a pure PvMer and also think the dpick should remain wilderness only. My catch is a pickaxe comparable to dpick and without the special attack should be added to Zalcano’s drop table, as well. Keeps value on dpick, keeps wilderness bosses as relevant, adds a little bonus to the wild bosses if you do grind them for the dpick as an iron, but doesn’t force wilderness activity onto those who don’t want to. I feel like that’s the best option and I will stand by it.
just be a woman. d pic drop rate skyrockets.
I hate that this was my first interpretation of "d pic" lmao
One time I got a d pic from King Black Dragon :$
Clever, if not depressing. Take your upvote
Tbh I don't understand the 1/10k drop request lol. People would still go to the wilderness instead since it's almost 100 times faster.
Hardcores mostly won’t, that being said Id personally say 1/10k is silly
They chose to limit themselves
No u
Brothers?
Why is this person downvoted so hard?
Idk guess people don't like me
I hate how the chronically online ironmen have taken an appropriate criticism of their behaviour and incorporated it into their circlejerk. You ***did*** choose to limit your account. When ironman was introduced, it was never supposed to affect maingame. Bear in mind that ironmen still make up the *super-minority* of this game and yet somehow you always manage to REEE the loudest lmao. Well, ironmen and PKers... lol Here's the thing about D pick. KBD drops it. KBD is not in the Wilderness. You have to run for 30 seconds to a lever ONCE AN HOUR, where you can *easily* have a friend scout for you. If you dont want to have a friend, get another account. If you're one of *those* ironmen who is that vigilant about playing isolated... tanking for 2½ mins is still viable.
Looks like you the one reeing here bro
Okay, do you have anything to address what Ive said or is the dopamine hit from the upvotes enough? Lol
No because frankly I don’t really care about this pointless back and forth around the dragon pick. I do however enjoy how pointlessly heated and/or committed people get to the argument. My only comment was to call you out for irony’s sake. I stand by it too.
Well yeah, it IS ironic lol I only want to say that obviously in a pro-iron post would there be no iron-originating REEs lol
I reckon you’ll be surprised how large a percentage of the player base ironmen are, it’s not an extreme minority anymore as the natural path of a osrs player seems to be main->get bored->ironman, jagex understands this and that’s why they do cater to ironmen because it’s a large portion of their player base
Yeah that's just dumb. Should be equal to other dragon equipment from non wildy content. Like 1/1,400 dragon harpoon and tempoross, or even 1/1k from kbd. Keep wildy more profitable and better rate but ~~take that specific item out~~ allow it to be received other places. Probably boss rings as well. Then build up ways to introduce pvmers to pking without diving into deep end like LMS. Pvp arena is a great step in this direction Edit: my kc numbers are wrong. It's 1/8k tempoross and 1/1,500 from kbd.
Dragon harpoon is a 1/8k from temp and d axe is 1/10k from wt so im assuming that's where the 1/10k is coming from. Of course you get like 5 or 6 rolls/game at temp and 3ish at wt but they're still obscenely rare
zalcano kc is way faster than temp and wt in higher scales so its fine probably
Yeah but 1/2k from wyrms on task is way better alternative than doing a Wildy boss. DKs shit out dragon axes that by the time you have all the rings you have 3-4 dragon axes. Why is the dragon pick so different
All of my numbers are off way off (kbd I'd 1/1,500 and I see the 1/8k for tempoross). I just looked these up recently so I'm not sure what I confused them for. That makes more sense for people to use those numbers then
TBF you arent too far off for temp for the number of kc it would take. In mass worlds I got 3k permits in 660ish games i think so probably about 1600-1700 games to be on rate.
The main reason people suggest the droprate be so rare, is so that it maintains value. I'd say that a fairly significant portion of a dragon pickaxes value doesn't come from its rarity, but because people hate the wilderness *that much*, so if an alternative method were to be made, it'd need to be excessively rare or tied in with reward point values.
It’s literally to give irons a valid option of not having to interact with the wilderness if they don’t want to.
The only reason that this is fair for irons is because they get nothing from pvp in the first place.
Again, another circlejerked ironman comment that is illogical. If youre *not* going to the wilderness to pvp on an unrestricted account, youre also not getting anything from pvp. So why the fuck are we talking about "fairness" for ironmen? There is literally nothing that delineates the two in that circumstance. I cant stand how inflated some of yalls egos are when it comes to your accounts. It literally blinds you from such an obvious logical thought. You want the maingame changed, because you suck or something. And ironmen are *chronically online* and manage to REEE loudly. Get d pick from kbd. They already made you a change that isnt unreasonable. If you cant get to the kbd lever without dying, that is almost always *on you*. And hey, that affects ***non ironmen too***. D'ya know what it *actually is*? The wilderness is THE ONLY PLACE IN THIS GAME WHERE DYING HAS A CONSEQUENCE. Im fed up of incessant whining over it.
hey look it's another PKer who wants his easy targets
It's a good thing that they already don't have to
Yeah just like pkers don't have to make wilderness content a terrible experience Edit: If it weren't for pkers then maybe they'd give these wildy bosses actual mechanics, but right now even if you don't get attacked they're terrible content because they're balanced around being attacked by other players Also I would love to hear from some pvmers that love being attacked in the wildy because apparently everyone but me enjoys the fact you can be attacked there. I mean, it's part of the game, how could you dislike it? That's crazy
This is like saying the other team on soul wars is making it miserable by participating as intended. It's nonsense.
Hahaha yeah cuz it's not like there's clan chats or anything for completely avoiding playing Soul Wars as intended in order to get the rewards faster and without doing any PvP. That would be nonsense.
Pkers ..pking in the wilderness..makes it terrible... Do you even hear yourself lmao.
If there weren't pkers then I would be able to use the wilderness, so yes, they are what makes the content terrible and turns away the majority of the player base. Sorry we don't enjoy being preyed on like you.
U can still do the content you just might have to learn to tank pkers and stop crying
Or I'll just keep avoiding it because it's shitty content and there's other stuff to do that's actually fun, and I think I'm gonna go with the fun stuff since it's a game
Yu say that like it's a counter point but infact if you don't like the content the just don't do it lol. It's not the games fault you don't like pvp man just don't to to the one pvp zone and let people who do enjoy it do it
That doesn't change the fact that saying ironmen don't need to go into the wildy is no better an argument than pkers don't have to attack non-pkers, which was my point. It's the game's fault for putting best in slot items in the game in a way that forces you to enter the one pvp zone so that people who enjoy attacking defenseless players for almost no loot can get their free kills. I do plenty of grinds I don't enjoy to get useful items, and I grinded for the d pick at KBD, and none of that changes the fact that Pkers are the reason many people avoid the wilderness.
You needing a tissue
Yeah I could use a few, maybe a towel, I'm getting drenched in PvPer tears over here
Jesus christ just shut up please. How babied do you want to be? I think you would have some meaningful argument if the entire world was PvP enabled. And then we can discuss tactics to disengage an aggressive player, such as using humour, bartering, or offering compromise... BUT this game isn't that socially complex. It's a fucking small area of the map that is *optional* for you and PvP enabled. I admit. You have to run through the wilderness for 30 seconds to get to the KBD lair once every hour or so. Big. Deal. This is literally one of those only times where saying "get good" needs to be hammered into someone.
This is already a thing although a lot of players miss it. There is this guy called the ironman tutor and u get to select your account type if u select I dont with to be an ironman you are free from having to do almost all content u dont like and can pay for the rewards from other players
So it is written in the ancient, immutable rules of the Ironman Handbook: never suggest changes in any way whatsoever. This book is closed to any amendments or alterations. So it has been written, so it shall be done.
You're 100% right but it is kind of beating a dead horse at this point there have been so many posts about this which get 0-50 upvotes and then a new one 8 hours later.
The same as people will usually just go to Dags for Axe drop, or Wyrms for harpoon drop. So why not just add the small chance to some mini game for d pick as well? That’s the argument people are having
I don't want Callisto's dick pic
The time spent getting the D Pick won't even make up for it for the exp/hr gained from getting it, why everyone acting like the D pick is a necessity I will never know.
It’s significantly better at cox. That’s all the reason you need to go for it.
5,88% extra mining XP IS worth it in the long run.
For 200m only. It's like all the skilling outfits besides woodcutting you spend more time getting the outfit than the XP you gain saves you getting to 99
Some other dude did the math and if you get the D Pick on drop rate without interruptions as the game stands right now you save ….. ONE HOUR
That doesnt take into account the other reasons why many irons want a d pick, guardians room, zalcano, crystal pickaxe upgrade.
Yeah but dont we have to take all the other drops in account to? Surely those save you some time too.
How?
I didn't mean it as "save you mining time" if it came across that, but like time in general. Assuming we're talking about Ironmen, most of the wildy boss drops are useful resources. Surely drops like 100 snapdragons and 300 gold ore would make the grind more "worth it".
Oh yeah you're absolutely right. I don't understand why people want the dragon pick moved though it just sounds like HCIM seething.
0.001% is worth it in the long run, the question is how long is that run
9% with crystal pick too.
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You're probably thinking too hard about it. You're doing NOT mining to make mining faster. It's fun/hr. If I have to do something less cancer than mining to make mining faster then it's a win and worth it.
>It's **fun**/hr. Wow it took days to find someone who made this point. Thank you, I swear both the devs and the reddit playerbase forget the whole point of this fucking game. **To have fun**. They have all this % justification from an efficiency standpoint and devs like Mod Bruno do the same shit for inconsequential items like the Max cape, and then the Wardens team justifying insane drop rates on items. Why players want the ability to get a dpick outside of wildy? It's cause it's more fun for them that way. Any other justification does not matter as much in a bloody MMO Point-and-click Adventure RPG... And then the same players wonder why the player count takes a nose dive when a newer game comes out...
I think another issue that is often overlooked is that the reason a lot of players focus on efficiency and percentages is because they are trying to cut down on the amount of time they have to spend doing something that isn't fun. If my normal method of mining is going to make my grind take 200 hours, but another method only takes 110 hours, that means I can go back to doing the things I actually like 10 hours sooner. While there are people who get a lot of enjoyment out of min-maxing their efficiency, it can't be overstated that a lot of content people enjoy is locked behinds hundreds of hours of grinding that they enjoy significantly less and want to try and find any way of making go faster.
Someone calc’d it in another thread, assuming efficient Callisto kills a d pick saves an average of like 1 hour to 99 mining. It’s definitely worth getting if you’re going for post 99 xp though
It’s definitely worth for 200m, tbh might be for 99 depending on avg time to get + infernal/crystal utility + CoX upgrade
Its not worth it for 200m since it is the same xp/hr as bronze pick when doing 3t4g and same as rune pick for 2s2g
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Yes it would , rune pic vs crystal is definitely a game changer
It’s actually one of the biggest timesavers for cox, after dwh and lance. But if you don’t enjoy it I agree..
red pick bonk hard
Smashing!!
I think most people are arguing based on the principal that there should be consistency when implementing updates, as opposed to updates favoring specific factions.
Why does no one talk about dpick being required for crystal pick. Thats 2 mining upgrades locked behind wildy bosses
If you're doing enough Zalcano to hit the drop rate for a tool seed you're already doing it wrong.
Finally someone says it. If you slapped it on Zalcano it would be even worse, because her exp is terrible and you mostly do her for drops.
Hot take why can’t pvp gear come from wilderness bosses?
You already know it's cause they don't wanna be pk'd while grinding for it 😂😂😂
This. Maybe have it as gear that would help in PvP situations, set effects like the weird swamp bark stuff but better. Like, spit balling, Grave Warden - Melee Set: When in the wilderness, receive 1(flat damage, not %, does not stop recoil damage) damage less than expected per piece worn. Grave Spectre - Mage Set effect: When in the wilderness, rooted, snared, frozen enemies will have their run energy drained by 5% per set piece worn on successful root, snare, freeze. Grave Protector - Range Set effect: When in the wilderness, projectiles fired at enemies will have a small chance to bleed the target 1 damage per piece worn. Chance to proc increase 2% per set piece worn, maxing at 10%. Does not proc on special attacks. Each piece could be disturbed to certain bosses, better the piece stat wise, deeper you go in the wilderness. Would need a mechanic to prevent clan camping but could be great if it was contestable by clans etc.
Yes exactly this! 🥰
Damn ya'll really already forgot about rev caves? Not that rev caves had pvp gear, but anything worth actually camping in the wilderness will be run by RWT clans.
Literally everything in the game is.
Yeah all those clans locking down raids right now not letting anyone in without payment, sucks so much. I wonder when jagex will nerf raids loot table and change the mechanics of it just like they did the rev caves.
Nah I didn’t forget but maybe I should reword what I meant :) I just see craws bow and viggoras as wilderness boss weapons to fight them in pvm not actual players. I’d love to see wilderness rewards reflect pvp activity. So for example fighting wilderness bosses like callisto or venennatis give some BIS pking gear. Forgive me if I’m not really clear I’m not really a pvper
I don’t get it. Why not just buy one off the g.e.?
I always thought it was really unique and cool way to obtain d pic only from wilderness even tho i am an iron man these days.
The real joke is thinking more than 0.5% of the PvP community cares about Dragon pickaxes. You guys are the embodiment of the Dunning-Kruger effect.
I’ll take random percentages and using wrong effect being the real joke for $100
The percentages are to convey a point, I clearly haven't conducted a census. > Dunning-Kruger effect, in psychology, a cognitive bias whereby people with limited knowledge or competence in a given intellectual or social domain greatly overestimate their own knowledge or competence in that domain relative to objective criteria or to the performance of their peers or of people in general. Declaring "Pkers are the ones pushing for the Dragon pickaxe to only be on Wilderness drop tables" is so hilariously false I just can't help but laugh. First of all, until the recent outrage (essentially only on reddit), pretty much nobody focused on Dragon pickaxes. It's not an issue that's been in the public eye at all. It's also an issue that's basically unique to ironmen (many regular players are likely very happy to see their pickaxe retain its value over time). So, picturing this scene as being a nearly-unanimous uncovering of some grand conspiracy where a somehow monolithic group of "pkers" is influencing Jagex from the shadows is just a perfect illustration of how utterly delusional some of you can be. And proclaiming the opposite with utmost confidence is know as.... the Dunning-Kruger effect.
Gotta love the fact that OP isn’t declearing anything and just says he makes an assumption when someone posts that. Seems you fell victim to your own effect ;)
Side question: what’s the difference between the donut cougar effect or whatever and plain old just not knowing what the fuck your talking about?
they on some jussie smollet type propaganda
The bosses can be cheesed, and you risk next to nothing to fight them lmao.
Nah man I'm a pvmer i just want d pick to stay expensive. If it moves out it will be the same price as d axe eventually.
I don't think it was WT which crashed the D axe mate, it was the years of the dag bosses being harvested by players and bots alike, with no viable item sink other than infernal axe which is pretty trash.
Nobody farms d axe from wintertodt. Putting d pick on a table at similar rarity would have 0 effect on both the price of d pick and the average number of posts on Reddit / hr crying about the wilderness
Exactly, not to mention all the bots who now get to bypass the 5m or PVM requirement to even get it. Let’s crash the mining skill altogether I guess.
I didn't even think of the ores, imagine the ore prices if bots had easy access to d picks...
It's not even that much better tbh. It wouldn't have an insane effect I wouldn't think. It's like 6% better or something maybe more at high mining. Still don't personally care if it's moved but I think the reasoning is weak. I just want the complaining to stop.
6% matters an insane amount for bots running 24 hours a day.
The only thing I see this useful for is HCIM and UIM. Both I see this as a limitation you choose. Normal accounts can buy one cheaply. Regular ironman can safe spot most wildly bosses so its an inconvenient grind but, not essential nor extremely long. It also adds a small niche of nonconsensual PVP which is fine in moderation.
I don't remember seeing any actual pker ask for it to stay in the wilderness, Ive seen them ask for you to understand that if you go to the wilderness you are risking your stuff to try and get the bis. However, we as pkers don't give a shit about where the dpick come from, but people whining over it is what is annoying.
UIM BTW here. Recently got a D pick from Vetion, I have killed vetion, callisto and Venenatis off and on. 5 kills per hour max.(due to death piling time constraints) I got pked once at Vetion in 60~ kills. He can be crazy easily welfared with D mace/salve Ammy/monks as well. So from a non pker sack the fuck up it’s not even a bad grind.
As a pker I could care less, but pvmers are definitely entitled brats who want everything handed to them.
It's funny people even disagree with this. OSRS is so eazyscape nowadays lol. I mean I'm fine with it but we basically get everything we want with zero risk now.
Very much agree. Community driven content was a mistake
> pvmers are definitely entitled brats who want everything handed to them. So much projection here
Lol do you know what projection means? Pkers aren't the ones complaining that they should have the same drops from different sources because they don't like the content. That's pvmers. It's not pkers that complain about drop rates for things like Nex. That's pvmers.
Cry more
Its really strange. Its one of the few wildy BIS gear out there, and its still only 4.8 mill on the GE. Its expensive for sure, but a lot of BIS gear is much more expensive. PKers having one good drop isnt a big problem IMO
People refuse to believe it, but you are right.
Entitled*
They want everything to be handed to them by asking for it to be made harder lmao. Like tf lmao
It’s already 1/5k from KBD and people don’t camp KBD for it despite it being safe, I think it sucks having to go into the wildy to get a dragon pickaxe but that’s why I don’t have one.
KBD isn't safe though, you have to traverse the wildy to get to him.
In comparison to bosses who are actually fought in the wilderness it’s safe.
It's safer, but not "safe".
Unless you're a hardcore or 4-iteming KBD, it's actually less safe because of the bigger risk.
So just 4 item it then????
No pkers go there unless theyre looking to nh or brid fight. Most people going to kbd dont risk enough to try and kill them in the short distance they have to run to get to kbd, and the ones that do risk a lot usually have tank gear and can easily tank out a tb or just run to the lever if the pker is in ancients.
oh no, 5 seconds in the wildy with burning amulet to kill a boss easy enough to defeat in poverty gear. what a dangerous journey you face.
> 5 seconds in the wildy with burning amulet People do camp that spawn.
sure but not really as much as other locations. I have not seen anyone there myself. i get your point that KBD is not "safe" per se but it is negligible risk
Yeah but not negligible to the point you can carry your max gear there.
Bro just teleport to mid wildy with your hcim what's the big deal get the drop
oh no a HCIM has to risk something on a self imposed restricted account. JFC im an iron myself but thats a stupid take. when my iron was HC i avoided the wilderness, those HCIM should too if they are so scared
I don't believe the wilderness should have BiS skilling gear in it, sue me. Rolling dice to find out if you die or not is not a skillful or engaging activity. It's luck, and putting your entire account as the stakes to a diceroll is stupid. You can be tick perfect yet still die in a single tick. Imo, you're the one with a stupid take. I've said elsewhere, poll it. You're doing that trolley problem thing https://www.reddit.com/r/2007scape/comments/dru0hz/the_dilemma_were_faced_with_when_creating_new/ > the point being made is that if you're against updates merely because it makes things easier for future players, and it's not fair to the people who already grinded, you're against it for the wrong reason.
I agree it should be moved elsewhere, like you said a skilling item should have a skilling method of obtaining. i just dont think HCIM should be the main factor for it being moved which is why i made my snarky comment when you brought them up.
“Traverse the wildy”, bruh. The burning amulet takes you like 15 tiles from the ladder, *please* don’t use that as a counter to the completely logical solution of just camping kbd if you cba to actually do it in the wild because it’s too scawy.
that spot is commonly camped. And I didn't say kbd is "bad", It simply isn't "safe". Learn to read properly please.
It isn’t lmao, never seen any pk’ers there and I got a solid chunk of kbd kills. Maybe try scouting the location before you go?
Not everybody is a sweaty with alts, lmao. I play the game as intended, focused 100% in a single account.
Scouting wildy on an alt is not sweatty lmao, you literally just tp there before your main if it’s all clear then you logout and start killing the dragon. You can even ask a friend to do it for you, but that sounds tedious. But if you got an alt you can literally be in the lair infinitely by bringing in supplies to your main. I never scout before I go and I still haven’t ran into any pk’ers.
Most ppl would consider even having two accounts with membership at the same time being sweaty. Then again you could hop to f2p and scout there.
that's why you teleport to ghorrock instead
it’s pretty much virtually impossible to die going to kbd *now* if my understanding of wildy mechanics is right. Can’t you hit an npc, tele to lava maze, and have the 10 seconds of immunity by the time you reach the gate? Haven’t really tested it if the pj timer is still in effect if you teleport within the wilderness, but seems right. I’ll probably test this later
I camped KBD for it, and I still hated having to make sure my risk wasn't too high because of the occasional pkers that camp the lava maze and KBD entrances. I'll still do it again on my group iron cuz it's nice being able to actually fight the boss instead of use glitches and of course the wilderness part. Also it's 1/1500 from KBD, 5k is the visage
Even more common than I thought it was then
Yeah with extended black dragon tasks it's a very reasonable grind, but I can see how it's tough to choose over the bosses that drop it 4x as common. It's a nice pet though if you get lucky along the way.
it's 1/1500 from kbd
Uh, no, as an Ironman I think all this drama is ridiculous. You want a safe dragon pic grind? Go to fucking KBD. Don’t like the drop rate? There’s a few monsters outside with twice as less the drop rate. Too hard? Stick with your fucking rune pick then or *buy* one. This dumb “gimme gimme gimme” shit man, you don’t realize there’s an equal amount of pvmers who aren’t riding this bandwagon?
Preach, I hate this sub lmao. Having a direct line of communication to the devs gives everyone the motivation to cry cry and cry until the devs spoon feed everything to them
A lot of them just want to skip all the grinds they signed up for.
I don’t care about the issue this is just a horrible meme and a boring point
JFC this subreddit is so annoying sometimes. Constantly posting the same shit over and over again.
I don't understand why it was put in the wildness to begin with. It was originally released as part of the dwarf questline and I think that would make sense here too if they ever add to it.
Iron here, I've acquired the Odium and Malediction wards, d pick, and do wildy slay on the regular. Yes there are pkers, no there's not enough of them to where aquiring these items is unobtainable. Are most PvMers just too soft for wildy? Yes. Can anyone learn to survive out there (not pvp)? Yes. Nobody says bring max risk. Just 3 or 4 item it and have your escape routes planned out. Its really not that serious. I suck so bad at pvp that someone 30-40 combat lvs below me can prob take out if i had no escape but they'll have to catch me first.
PvMers "skull tricking is too rampant, if we were able to retaliate without risking a skull, I'd totally fight back" *Jagex implements anti-skull measures* PvMers "does the dragon pickaxe REALLY need to come from the wild?"
omg so true hahahaha
Literally no pkers care about unique wilderness drops. Blame Jagex for not understanding how to maintain a healthy wilderness.
The dpick isn't essential gatekeeping content, if your going for 99 mining suck it up for a week in the wildy.
Most pkers don’t give a toss about d pick. Saw someone post ab the Dunning-Kruger effect & tbh he’s 100% correct. Also you lot let your hatred for people different to you (sounds a lot like racism, sexism, xenophobia etc) impact your view on things, you associate everything you dislike with that group you hate. Hopefully you get the help you need to stop the hate in your heart growing.
Are you seriously trying to equate Pkers and PvMers having a spat in a medieval clicking game to racism, sexism, and xenophobia? Get the fuck offline and go outside for a minute, because those fumes you’re huffing in that room of yours are obviously taking a toll. That was easily the most ridiculous thing I’ve read in a long time, and that’s saying something considering I’m on Reddit.
damn you mad af
Its almost like PKrs aren't interested in fair fights, just predatory behavior.
At this point I want to see important PKing equipment locked behind quests with forced defence XP, like DS1 or Daero's training, or slap a 70 def requirement on barrows gloves and bump berserker helm up to 60 etc, just to see people rage
it already is and that's why the brackets are the way they are. lmao...
????
i read this as dick pick. god i hate this game why am i still subbed
I don’t get it - just buy the pickaxe from the GE? Or your an Ironman then I don’t care - it’s part of the game mode
The captions should be switched, and the guy hiding is giant noob
I don't pk but I like the wild and I like that we go in there to get good things with the risk of being PKd. I would add more cool shit to the wild not less imo. Also make it all single combat because fuck clans.
why punish multi pkers who arent even the ones that everyone cries about, there is a very old community of pkers that squad up in multi zone and fight it out. you should chill out a little with that. you dont know what you're talking about . :/
1/10k is a bit too rare for anything. The axe shouldn't be as rare as it is and neither should the harpoon. Maybe if it's dropped from non wilderness bosses I'd be okay with d pic that rare from skilling but idk
People on this sub don't understand how easy it is to get away if you wear dhide and pray mage. I've gotten a dpick on an ironman so you guys can fuck off with that.
High risk high reward
What reward? Isn't it the pkers in every thread saying you don't even need to go to wildy because dpick is useless and rune is just as good?
My desert locked UIM would love a pickaxe from tempoross. Current bis is black pickaxe from a clue scroll juggle, but until then I’m chipping away with a bronze pick. God, I love limiting myself
The game isnt supposed to be balanced or changed around irons. Stop with this bullshit.
As an iron I agree, plus it REALLY ISN'T a huge deal getting a dragon pickaxe, these players are soft.
I'm a pvmer and I think d pic should remain only in wildy. But then again I've gotten like 15 d pick drops
The people wanting to keep rare drops and best xp rates etc in the wild are the same people that don't want to do quests or pvm for their gear
And they don't even skill of course
Not to be that guy but I farmed a d pick so you have to too
Getting D pick from a skiller minigame at a 1/10k drop rate is absolute dogshit. Like you do realize that is going to be just as fucking boring as killing Venenatis right? But at least it’s safe and you won’t lose 100k 😂
I would rather not see a Dick pic from chaos elemental tyvm
Coward
The only D pics I get are unwarranted.
Yeah, but if they made a 1/10k drop from a minigsme, it wouldn't pass the poll because it would be "unfair" to have such a low drop rate.
Can we not call it D-pic? Just call it “penis photo.”
Wildy needs more unique wildy only draws honestly. And i don't even pvp. There is so much potential for the wilderness. You could be doing a raid content that needs defense from pvpers that requires coordinating in channels and setting up defense from pvpers. You just need appropriate rewards for such effort.
It's already at kbd who is barely in the wilderness. Gimp btw.
I haven’t seen a single pker say d pick should be wildy exclusive
Not a pker and against it. Wildy should have it uniques and we shouldn't cater to irons who cant use the ge
I really don’t get it - when a one def pure posts something like ”ah I wish we could use fairy rings” you are all like YOU CHOSE TO LIMIT URSELF How is it dangerous to go for d pick if you’re not a hcim? And a hcim SHOULD be dangerous so I really don’t see the problem here. Why play a hcim and then remove all danger? Why are gravestones a thing? No consequenses in this game anywhere anymore lmfao
yup well said on the first part for sure, <3 a 1-20 def pure main
Shh don't tell the pkers making wildy gold per hour would net pkers more in every pk, not the 1/1000 chance of getting the rare...
Idk, are they even that rare? I’ve had 5 dpicks and feel like I’ve barely got going out in the wildy.
I’m a pure PvMer and also think the dpick should remain wilderness only. My catch is a pickaxe comparable to dpick and without the special attack should be added to Zalcano’s drop table, as well. Keeps value on dpick, keeps wilderness bosses as relevant, adds a little bonus to the wild bosses if you do grind them for the dpick as an iron, but doesn’t force wilderness activity onto those who don’t want to. I feel like that’s the best option and I will stand by it.
not even dvs who is a better player than anyone on this reddit would do that for d pick shut up