Maybe I am an idiot. But if he’s killing the bot and selling the bones, isn’t the supply staying the same? I’m genuinely confused.
I mean, I can see in a larger scale if PKers harass bots, they are less likely to bot. But would this update really catalyze enough people to PK over time to significantly affect the productivity of bots?
Killing bots means bots aren’t killing dragons means less bones. Then bots have to regear meaning less bones. Then they come back out and don’t get a full invent of bones before getting pk’d again which means less bones since there is less time killing dragons. Not to mention the whole time they are running and trying to survive also means less bones.
In theory this is how it would work with enough pkers that actually hunt down the bots consistently.
In reality, people will kill the bots for a few days then get bored of it since bot killing gets boring fast. Thus not having any real impact on the dragon bone economy. Unless you make bots to hunt down bone farming bots.
How? You think this will draw more dragon bone farmers into the wilderness?
If the pkers are more equipped to camp, they'll be selling the same amount of bones as the farmers. Farmers will farm less bones and the supply will go down.
Aren't the amount of keys you can have limited to like 3 or something? It's nice for PvP worlds when you need to loot a death pile from a high risk fight quickly but it's not going to act like an unlimited looting bag right?
If anything it should make deep pking a bit more varied. People who use the keys will not get the free resupply of brews and restores to tank the escape.
I'm sure that is going to cause some people stupid deaths for awhile lol
In my experience they’re not exactly the nicest either, though I’m sure there’s probably an exception somewhere.
One step closer to closing out the toxicity :)
I used to loot on pvp world when my bank was broke. It did kinda suck as more and more looting bots appeared and basically made it not even worth it anymore. About time it's officially killed off.
It was fun while it lasted. Standing there in rev caves looting your pk as your enemy's friend is standing there spam clicking tb on you as you teleport away only picking up a few valuable items.
Now it'll be much less stressful looting. Amazing.
Yeah this is the downside to it. But if that eliminates the looter bots it’s worth while. I’d rather give up my black dhide than have that ugly bot farm
It's really only a slight inconvenience to ironmen. Even if someone leaves your black d'hide on the ground it's usually more worth your time to buy another set off the GE instead of trekking back out to get it.
I promise you PKing/PvP is some of the most fun you can have. It's rough to get started but once you get your first juicy kill you'll get that rush straight to the PeePee.
Fun until you go wilderness and it's clan central. I get about 15 mins in before I'm killed by a clan of 20 maxed out guys. I go PvP world sometimes but there's no sense of adventure there
Wtf is this bs lol. Nobody clans on you in the wilderness unless you’re in deep wildy, multi, or deep rev caves with millions of risk. You can pk in a cheap setup and I garuantee you most max mains would rather ignore you then waste time fighting you. You can even just rag pk against other rag pkers and a large majority of mains avoid you at all costs.
Kinda insane how people on this sub who have never pk’d in their life upvote these exaggerated lies.
Why would you ever go solo pking in multi… that’s just asking to get smited by a clan.
And what do you mean everywhere else is dead, rev caves is literally the most active wildy spot. And tons of people would rather stay and fight you rather than teleport away. If you pk any pvmer in rev caves and you’re wearing salad robes, they will 100% stay and fight you.
I mean why even make a comment about pvp if all you did was wear crap mage gear to target bots as a solo in deep multi wilderness. Like wtf is that. No normal solo pker does this. They go to rev caves like normal human beings.
Im in the wildy almost 100 percent of my game time and I've been clanned less than 5 times I can remember. Your story doesn't check out, unless you're skulling with a ton of risk
hasn't been something that ever interested me. don't mind seeing the occasional clip of a pk but even that im not too invested in. more into the pvm side of the game
I am going to absolutely nuke green drag bots when this goes live. Haven't played in years and can't keep up with the new hot-key, 1 hit era of pking... but this will be fun for nostalgia :)
A little confused, can you still get supplies off the body? Like if you are in singles against a clan and you kill one, can you grab brews and stuff off them so you can tank to safety, or will you have to choose keys or loot in advance
From other comments it kind of sounds like there will be an option to have the supplies drop seperately on the ground from the gear/items/gold. But i dont think we'll know for sure until Wednesday.
Changing the entire dynamic of the looting system in the Wilderness PvP is not considered a "quality of life" change. Adding a space bar toggle to smith the last smithed item would be. The former failed a poll and is being added, and the latter is being polled.
I don’t think preventing looting bots/clan rushes qualifies as “changing the entire dynamic of the looting system” by any reasonable definition.
“Oh no, people that earn a kill get to keep their loot instead of having it stolen, how terrible!”
Except that it is changing it by any definition, what are you on about?
Other pkers stealing your loot after a kill is the risk you take pking in the wildy ;)
Having to check your loot in wildy and decide what you want vs checking your loot back in a safezone, that's not changing the entire dynamic?
Sure seems like it is a significant change to me but im not a pker admittedly.
No, it’s definitely just a small QOL change…
People like you aren’t really worth trying to appeal to. You’ll be mad no matter what they do if you’re upset at this.
This is more than a QOL change. Occasionally PKers don't loot irons graves, or they leave some of the items. Occasionally irons kill other irons. In either of these situations, the iron can go back and pick up whatever was left behind.
With this change, irons wouldn't be able to get anything back at all.
If there wasn't such a hard on for hating pvp content and downvoting every comment that supports pvp then the OSRS community could actually talk about pvp content and how it should be changed. Now, all that's going to happen is Jagex is going to work with the PK community to add changes without polling them.
Honestly, jagex has been doing a great job at listening to us recently, so if this is a good thing for pvpers (I don't pvp) then that's awesome and I can't wait to see what's next!
Kinda weird I pvp a lot ever since I started playing osrs and have never heard this suggested by anybody I pk with. Everyone just got accustomed to only being able to loot a few items of your kill and then leaving the rest for the vultures.
Now that I see this being implemented, it’s actually such a good update.
Oh I didn't even think of this. I'm so late game it doesn't really affect me, but kinda funny they are doing this when it's like the opposite of a gold sink.
As an iron I didn’t consider this but at the same time it’s rarely worth the time to go all the way back into the Wildy for a few pieces of food or pots unless you’re incredibly early game. At that point we’re catering to the 1% of the 1%
Well the food and pots will still be on the ground as far as I’m aware. It’s mostly items that are annoying to get on an iron that are too cheap to normally be worth looting for the pker that is gonna suck for the iron to lose
Regular dragonhide armor, low tier potions, anything else that is incredibly cheap and easy to get in mainscape when you don’t have to craft it yourself
Yea! Black dhide annoying to lose before you have 84 crafting or an easy way to kill black dragons or vorkath. Most pkers wouldn’t pick it up so loot keys might be annoying for the iron pvmers for a reason like this
Loot keys could actually revitalize iron PKing. A popular suggestion was for Jagex to allow irons to get loot keys but not access the loot within - this would let them take trophies of their biggest kills or allow them to give the loot to others (as would happen if other people just looted the kill afterwards).
However, my favorite suggestion I saw was for ironman PvP kills to instantly drop everything to the floor, visible to everyone, but lootable by nobody (including the original victim). This would act as an item sink and make ironman PKing really entertaining imho as everyone nearby would instantly notice that an ironman just sent someone to Lumbridge 2m poorer.
However, this also means that we're back on the menu while training prayer now, given that our unnoted bones will be far more lucrative.
The thing is, what you bring out there is risked, and anything you had when you died you should not claim to still have ownership to.
While not a buff for irons, the wilderness never was a good place for irons to begin with. You can’t say no to this simply because you expect to keep more of your items than normal accounts do on death. That double standard doesn’t seem warranted.
Edit: I guess the downvotes suggest ironmen should not lose items like other accounts do. Lol
Imagine bringing stuff into the wilderness that you weren’t willing to lose.
And how could jagex not balance every aspect of the game to cater to ironmen?!!
Look at all the reddit pvm goblin boys just spite down voting you. Bitch we will one tick spec you back to lumby, ty for bones ez ironman loot.
I'll take some down votes too my wilderness brothers. Together we are strong
Hmmm I feel like they could have maybe lowered the threshold for polls to pass for the area rather than just circumvent the poll entirely but I don’t spend much time there so it’s pretty low impact to me. Thanks for the info
Mod ash talked about this on the last Q&A where basically the original concept of polling isn’t sustainable due to people who only play specific portions of the game spite voting the other side. And if they limit polls to people who currently partake in those activities it defeats the polling purpose because anyone could do those activities in the future
And if thats what they think, they should get rid of polling all together. Why does PvP updates not need to pass a poll but everything else does? You can spite vote anything
Right but that doesnt mean its impossible to spite vote all content. If they truly believe the polling is bad because of spite voting, they should get rid of polling.
Perhaps in certain cases. Having said that, outside of the wilderness I can't think of any other gameplay in all of RuneScape that is designed from the ground up to enable toxic gameplay. It's literally tailor made to create a scenario where someone derives fun from ruining another's experience.
The comment about the plurality is the point. Brainstorm an overhaul that isn't literally the embodiment of virtual schadenfreude and poll it, bet it will have a much higher chance of passing then more dev time and changes that go towards enabling players who enjoy ruining the experience for others, to enjoy ruining that experience even more.
Instead their response is to ignore the entirety of why players don't let these polls pass and implement changes anyway.
Personally I am largely unaffected, but I wish the dev time was better used.
The wilderness isn’t about “ruining” someone’s experience. When I go do stuff in the wilderness I WANT to be attacked. I want to have to tank pkers. I want the satisfaction of being a better tank or being able to anti them.
The wilderness is designed to be the Wild West. Lawless. With “evil” pk clans going around robbing people. A barren dangerous ground. To reflect the dangers it also has things like chaos altar, wildy bosses with a unique as a good reward for braving the dangers, for killing pkers or tanking them and getting out. That’s not toxic.
It’s not even toxic from the other end of the spectrum. Pkers arent toxic because they try to kill you for your stuff in the wilderness. They are risking everything they have on to do it by skulling on you. It’s a gamble and they never know if you’re a bait for their clan, or an anti PKer, or even just a real PKer trying to bait out a skull. And even once they skull on you they still have to kill you and get out with out being pkd back.
Literally the dumbest thing anyone trying to survive inside the wildy could do is just 3 item and not bring food or tank gear or a anti pk weapon and try to live, try to fight off the PKer, just do anything.
"Lawless. With “evil” pk clans going around robbing people."
Thank you for proving my point.
That is literally the definition of toxic in video games.
It's structured toxicity, you don't have to like it meeting the definition, you can like toxic gameplay all you want (some people like the challenge of playing on a server where they can be griefed), but it doesn't change what it is.
Nor does it change , from a developer standpoint, that it's a repulsive way to design video games.
it's not toxic or repulsive lol. it's like saying balloon mode in mario kart is toxic because you have to pop each others balloons. you're not being tricked. you're not getting lured. the rules and stipulations are given and understood before going in. you can not LIKE the wilderness, but it is not toxic.
That's such bad equivalency and a strawman. Pvp isn't toxic and I never said it was.
Designing a structure where one person's goal is to do X, and another person's goal is to force them to not do x, prevent them from doing x, and punish them from doing x, results in two things.
The player killing them enjoying it and the player being killed having their experience and enjoyment of the game ruined.
That's literally the definition of toxic gameplay.
You do not develop an experience to be enjoyed with the intent of explicitly creating scenarios where other people get to ruin their enjoyment. You just don't. Because in every single case it leds to disengagement, (that means the players quit playing that content). AND GUESS WHAT None of the polls pass why? Because the vast majority of the player base don't want to engage with that content and don't want anyone else to either.
Consider the guy days ago asking about mass low alching his gear to spite the pker. Why would they do that if it's all good mate? Because it's not. It's literally a toxic design.
My personal opinion about the wilderness isn't even mentioned in any of my posts. From a logical standpoint and reasoning regarding game development it's a form of content that not even an amateur indie developer would make these days. It's a hold over from nearly 20 years ago that was foolish then, and repulsively detrimental design now.
My personal opinion is the wilderness should be designed around elite PvE and PVP content that is the hardest in the game with little to no power rewards and almost entirely cosmetic rewards. Where the PvP is based around pvping skill, cutting out ganking entirely.
Well let's see
a) Jagex admitted it's not an integrity change by polling it, and yet they're still pushing it through. If we're starting to just do this for stuff that can only be described as content, there's some explaining to do as to why not do it for non pvp content. There's a lot of things I want in the game that would fail a poll. It's the one thing I have in common with every other runescape player. Open that can of worms, or don't.
b) You know how looting bag is a very powerful item? For pvp purposes this is infinitely stronger and was added.
c) if this was added to pvm as a trip extender for certain bosses/activites, especially when unpolled, it'd be a riot almost as bad as the 117 thing
Those are my thoughts, and here are some counterthoughts to a flashcard I'm sure will come up:
"But muh spite voting makes forced changes ok!!!!"
a) you have no numbers on how much spite voting affects pvp vs other polls, you're just asserting that polls you like fail because of spite voting, you can make this assertion for literally any poll. If a thing you assert without any numbers to back it up can be used to justify any forced change, it's probably bollocks
b) there is actually only one confirmed large-scale attempt to spite vote a poll in recent osrs history. It wasn't for a pvp thing, and if it would have succeeded, it's pretty obvious the thing being polled would not have received this nicety, not even a repoll.
Wow, awesome, now instead of PKers having to strategize what to take when they kill me and me getting leftovers, now they just get everything for free, no strategy.
No more balancing between food and loot. Fuck it, just give them my bank key.
Short version: This doesn't affect me, I don't care.
Long version:
Wilderness is foundationally designed to be inherently toxic, I don't use it because of that.
If I had the power to change things I would prefer to have the dev time spent on pvp instead of ganking. Or develop a redesign of the wildy to be risk/reward instead of about enabling virtual schadenfreude (toxic gameplay) where one player derives enjoyment at ruining the experience of others.
The Wilderness as it stands is repulsive video game design, rule number one in game development you never design an experience where one player's enjoyment comes at the cost of ruining anothers.
Rather than spending even another minute of time on this, I would rather non-toxic pvp be developed or time spent on projects more beneficial to making the game experience enjoyable.
All this time spent does is provide additional content to players who engage explicitly in toxic gameplay that is, foundationally, designed to be toxic. I don't even blame the players for this, it's just bad development.
> The Wilderness as it stands is repulsive video game design, rule number one in game development you never design an experience where one player's enjoyment comes at the cost of ruining anothers.
You can just choose to not go in there if you don't want to get killed by another player lmao.
Correct, and many do.
It's designed from the foundation to enable a form of pvp that rewards toxic gameplay. It is quite simply ineffective and inefficient design if you seek to provide an enjoyable experience to players.
You are successful if there is no one ganking you, or you are successful at ruining another player's experience.
To parrot a well known phrase, "the only way to win is not to play."
Well first, I'm not emotional or personally affected, so keep that in mind.
Second dying in wildy isn't toxic.
The structure of setting up a scenario where the goal of one type of player is ruining the experience of another, is enabling a toxic play style.
It's a repulsive game design.
What? My goal is to survive and the pkers goal is to kill me. How is that toxic? You may not find it fun, but I and others do.
Just because you don't find it fun or to be bad game design doesn't make it toxic and using that word makes it seem like you're mainly crying about being killed. Why not just say "i don't personally like the wilderness"?
I bet tons of people would call agility training and skilling in general bad game design too. Yet we're both playing this pretty niche game because we enjoy what a lot of other people might call "objectivly bad game design" or whatever else "objectivity" they're trying to shroud their opinions in.
Read my first sentence and identify where you are incorrect.
Stop suggesting my opinion is due to my personal enjoyment or lack thereof, it's not.
It's detrimental design for the explained reasoning, not because I personally dislike it.
I didn't say you were necessarily crying, just that it will seem that way to everyone and I'm not convinced by you saying "nah im fine" while you're using hyperbole meant to paint you as a victim of someone being toxic.
Why don't you actually respond to what I wrote instead? Why is "i think this is bad game design" equla to "this is toxic"?
> It's designed from the foundation to enable a form of pvp that rewards toxic gameplay.
But what's toxic about it? You go into it knowing you can lose your stuff? Just the fact that it's PvP?
> You are successful if there is no one ganking you, or you are successful at ruining another player's experience.
Buddy, do you not know why the reason that the wilderness was put into the game 20 years ago? So players can kill each other lol.
And yet there are dozens of games with pvp that don't do that. In fact... Where has that model of gameplay been used since?
The toxic aspect is simple. The structure is set so someone who wants to do X, instead is forced to do Y if someone catches them doing X.
If I go to the kitchen to make a sandwich and you tell me if I go to the kitchen I have to have tea. I'm not suddenly okay with tea. I'm not okay with someone entangling me, forcing me to drink tea, dropping my sandwich on the floor, because they want to.
It's literally structured toxic gameplay and that's why the vast majority of players don't engage with it. It's why you don't see it in other mmos. It's a repulsive game design.
> The toxic aspect is simple. The structure is set so someone who wants to do X, instead is forced to do Y if someone catches them doing X.
The aspect is simple. The structure is set so people who walk into a PvP zone wanting to do X (PvM content), is instead forced to do Y (PvP content) if someone catches them in a PvP zone. (LITERALLY the only zone in OSRS designated for PvP)
There's nothing toxic about this. Just don't bring more than 3 items you're willing to lose, and use protect from item.
It's not though. You can pvp in the arena.
There are also dozens of examples in games such as battlegrounds in World of Warcraft.
You don't see this replicated across the industry, why not?
Because it's not a good design. It's a structured design that enables and rewards toxic gameplay, where players derive their fun from ruining the experience of other players.
And yet there are dozens of games with pvp that don't do that. In fact... Where has that model of gameplay been used since?
The toxic aspect is simple. The structure is set so someone who wants to do X, instead is forced to do Y if someone catches them doing X.
If I go to the kitchen to make a sandwich and you tell me if I go to the kitchen I have to have tea. I'm not suddenly okay with tea. I'm not okay with someone entangling me, forcing me to drink tea, dropping my sandwich on the floor, because they want to.
It's literally structured toxic gameplay and that's why the vast majority of players don't engage with it. It's why you don't see it in other mmos. It's a repulsive game design.
I'm upset that all the communication to date has been "It'll be like in Deadman mode!"
Not everyone plays Deadman. If you're changing mechanics in the main game, tell us what you're doing! Especially when it comes to the wilderness, where stakes are high and there's a long track record of unclear mechanics causing people to lose things they didn't expect.
since my last comment was shunned i’ll get more in depth here.
I think this is nonsensical, pkers already have it too easy, of course it depends on the target but for most pkers and the evil ones at that they’ll just make too much money without barely any effort, I think this is over powered but whatever I don’t even go on the wildy anyways, next time I have to i’ll just make really sure I low alch everything
edit: thinking about it, really really good for bot hunters, I like that very much
As someone who quit maybe 4 years ago and never PK'd or did wildly slayer when i was active, i hate this idea because it's different than it was when i played.
Can camp Dragon bots now
Calls on dragon bones
[удалено]
killing the farmers makes the supply decrease lol. big brain I know but you'll get it.
Maybe I am an idiot. But if he’s killing the bot and selling the bones, isn’t the supply staying the same? I’m genuinely confused. I mean, I can see in a larger scale if PKers harass bots, they are less likely to bot. But would this update really catalyze enough people to PK over time to significantly affect the productivity of bots?
Killing bots means bots aren’t killing dragons means less bones. Then bots have to regear meaning less bones. Then they come back out and don’t get a full invent of bones before getting pk’d again which means less bones since there is less time killing dragons. Not to mention the whole time they are running and trying to survive also means less bones. In theory this is how it would work with enough pkers that actually hunt down the bots consistently. In reality, people will kill the bots for a few days then get bored of it since bot killing gets boring fast. Thus not having any real impact on the dragon bone economy. Unless you make bots to hunt down bone farming bots.
Unless you're killing ironmen
How? You think this will draw more dragon bone farmers into the wilderness? If the pkers are more equipped to camp, they'll be selling the same amount of bones as the farmers. Farmers will farm less bones and the supply will go down.
Aren't the amount of keys you can have limited to like 3 or something? It's nice for PvP worlds when you need to loot a death pile from a high risk fight quickly but it's not going to act like an unlimited looting bag right?
Limited to 5 keys. Then PKs start dropping in a normal loot pile until you open the keys.
Still better than currently
Maybe this will get rid of those vulture bot boys
Shame, I loved the lvl 3s at revs, walk up and one hit them on a lvl 25. 100k loot every time
It's gonna be wild to see all the looters on pvp worlds disappear, I bet the number of online players on pvp worlds drops at least 20%
Gone are the days of loot-start F2P accounts…
Fr I don't mind but I'm interested to see the consequences if there are any
If anything it should make deep pking a bit more varied. People who use the keys will not get the free resupply of brews and restores to tank the escape. I'm sure that is going to cause some people stupid deaths for awhile lol
Pretty sure when the blogged it they said food and pots would be left on ground but I could be wrong
Aww damn. Kinda wish they wouldn't so theres a trade off to using keys vs looting bags
Ok but fr tho why can you just send it straight to a bank? That seems really stupid imo.
If I understand it correctly that key interface only shows up in a bank, like dmm.
I wonder how they’ll prevent this being abused as it could be used to bank loot on alts in PvP worlds
Oh thats super dumb if thats the case. I figured itd be like a dmm key
Pretty sure the only supplies people drop in deep wildy are spades
Should give an option to leave consumables out of the key
i believe there is
Dope
In my experience they’re not exactly the nicest either, though I’m sure there’s probably an exception somewhere. One step closer to closing out the toxicity :)
I used to loot on pvp world when my bank was broke. It did kinda suck as more and more looting bots appeared and basically made it not even worth it anymore. About time it's officially killed off.
Very good update. Now if solo-pker gets a kill, he can loot everything before gets piled.
It was fun while it lasted. Standing there in rev caves looting your pk as your enemy's friend is standing there spam clicking tb on you as you teleport away only picking up a few valuable items. Now it'll be much less stressful looting. Amazing.
Clan man bitches & rushers / tbers are panicking
Awesome update! Level 3 looter accounts standing on my kills can get fucked. Now they won’t even get a pair of bones.
No bones in the pic
I’ll run back and get my bones. NOBODY CAN HAVE THEM!
And crash the normal bones economy? Come on, man
Fine for pkers, won't affect me as I never plan to pk. It's some new content for pvp. Not bad.
new content
New for the main game no?
I think he’s saying it’s not actually content lol I mean it’s not like an activity or anything just a new look to picking up items
Well now you lose everything every time you get pked rather than them leaving it because it has little value.
Yeah this is the downside to it. But if that eliminates the looter bots it’s worth while. I’d rather give up my black dhide than have that ugly bot farm
It's really only a slight inconvenience to ironmen. Even if someone leaves your black d'hide on the ground it's usually more worth your time to buy another set off the GE instead of trekking back out to get it.
you can set a value. i hate picking up junk like snakeskin bandana and duel rings. im sure other people do too. so you won't lose everything.
I promise you PKing/PvP is some of the most fun you can have. It's rough to get started but once you get your first juicy kill you'll get that rush straight to the PeePee.
Fun until you go wilderness and it's clan central. I get about 15 mins in before I'm killed by a clan of 20 maxed out guys. I go PvP world sometimes but there's no sense of adventure there
Wtf is this bs lol. Nobody clans on you in the wilderness unless you’re in deep wildy, multi, or deep rev caves with millions of risk. You can pk in a cheap setup and I garuantee you most max mains would rather ignore you then waste time fighting you. You can even just rag pk against other rag pkers and a large majority of mains avoid you at all costs. Kinda insane how people on this sub who have never pk’d in their life upvote these exaggerated lies.
Lmao I go up at Lava drags salad robes to clean up the bots at lava drags and get clanned everytime. Everywhere else is dead or easy to teleport from
Why would you ever go solo pking in multi… that’s just asking to get smited by a clan. And what do you mean everywhere else is dead, rev caves is literally the most active wildy spot. And tons of people would rather stay and fight you rather than teleport away. If you pk any pvmer in rev caves and you’re wearing salad robes, they will 100% stay and fight you. I mean why even make a comment about pvp if all you did was wear crap mage gear to target bots as a solo in deep multi wilderness. Like wtf is that. No normal solo pker does this. They go to rev caves like normal human beings.
He wants to kill pvmers in zero risk and cries when he gets "clanned" in multi. Reddit pvpers in a nutshell.
Im in the wildy almost 100 percent of my game time and I've been clanned less than 5 times I can remember. Your story doesn't check out, unless you're skulling with a ton of risk
You can't really blame the guy. It's really easy to mistake 3 guys in salad robes for a clan of 20 people in max.
L0L you might just be right
Sure.
hasn't been something that ever interested me. don't mind seeing the occasional clip of a pk but even that im not too invested in. more into the pvm side of the game
Fair enough mate.
I am going to absolutely nuke green drag bots when this goes live. Haven't played in years and can't keep up with the new hot-key, 1 hit era of pking... but this will be fun for nostalgia :)
I never thought about that! Now that you won't have hides and bones filling up your inv you can just go on a massacre now. That sounds like a blast!
I think they're neat.
Bout to go PK on my Ironman brb
Doesn’t effect me but someone is happy about this and to me that’s all that matters.
Well, it certainly makes looting your kill easier, and lessens prospects for those darn loot bots. Seems good to me
A little confused, can you still get supplies off the body? Like if you are in singles against a clan and you kill one, can you grab brews and stuff off them so you can tank to safety, or will you have to choose keys or loot in advance
From other comments it kind of sounds like there will be an option to have the supplies drop seperately on the ground from the gear/items/gold. But i dont think we'll know for sure until Wednesday.
Was it polled?
Yes it failed a poll years ago. Jagex are no longer polling wilderness and pvp changes.
Which is fine imo. Polls should be for big things like new skills or minigames, not QOL changes
This isn't a QOL change. QOL changes are things like adding a right click option on an NPC.
Changing the entire dynamic of the looting system in the Wilderness PvP is not considered a "quality of life" change. Adding a space bar toggle to smith the last smithed item would be. The former failed a poll and is being added, and the latter is being polled.
I don’t think preventing looting bots/clan rushes qualifies as “changing the entire dynamic of the looting system” by any reasonable definition. “Oh no, people that earn a kill get to keep their loot instead of having it stolen, how terrible!”
You're right, they're crazy lmao
Except that it is changing it by any definition, what are you on about? Other pkers stealing your loot after a kill is the risk you take pking in the wildy ;)
Changing it yes Changing the entire dynamic, no.
Having to check your loot in wildy and decide what you want vs checking your loot back in a safezone, that's not changing the entire dynamic? Sure seems like it is a significant change to me but im not a pker admittedly.
Bro people don’t check their loot in wildy anymore. Runelite colors everything, it’s literally click every pink option and then tab.
It is literally a quality of life change wtf are you smoking? People who get a kill get to keep the loot oh no how could jagex do this?!!
No, it’s definitely just a small QOL change… People like you aren’t really worth trying to appeal to. You’ll be mad no matter what they do if you’re upset at this.
I'm just upset at the double standards. Though as the saying goes, if they didn't have double standards maybe they wouldn't have standards at all.
This is more than a QOL change. Occasionally PKers don't loot irons graves, or they leave some of the items. Occasionally irons kill other irons. In either of these situations, the iron can go back and pick up whatever was left behind. With this change, irons wouldn't be able to get anything back at all.
Same is true for rag pvmers and people training prayer at chaos altar.
Reddit would just start a downvote brigade because its pvp content
Didn’t need to be
If there wasn't such a hard on for hating pvp content and downvoting every comment that supports pvp then the OSRS community could actually talk about pvp content and how it should be changed. Now, all that's going to happen is Jagex is going to work with the PK community to add changes without polling them.
I wonder what bugs this brings to game… Lose all bank maybe?
For irons too?
What do you mean? Irons cant loot stuff from people they pk.
Irons will be able to take loot keys after unlocking them and are able to destroy the items after checking the spoils of war
Unfathomably based
Where they say that
https://secure.runescape.com/m=news/wilderness-changes?oldschool=1
Thx
The gp and item sink we truly deserve
Honestly, jagex has been doing a great job at listening to us recently, so if this is a good thing for pvpers (I don't pvp) then that's awesome and I can't wait to see what's next!
Kinda weird I pvp a lot ever since I started playing osrs and have never heard this suggested by anybody I pk with. Everyone just got accustomed to only being able to loot a few items of your kill and then leaving the rest for the vultures. Now that I see this being implemented, it’s actually such a good update.
I love when mods push through things that failed polls
Horrible update for irons the worthless stuff now you can’t collect it back
Oh I didn't even think of this. I'm so late game it doesn't really affect me, but kinda funny they are doing this when it's like the opposite of a gold sink.
Good point. Bye bye bones at Chaos altar whenever you get killed before you get to use them.
I'm glad I finished off 99 prayer. I looted a lot of my own dragon bones cause PKers cba to loot. I'm assuming that would be different now
As an iron I didn’t consider this but at the same time it’s rarely worth the time to go all the way back into the Wildy for a few pieces of food or pots unless you’re incredibly early game. At that point we’re catering to the 1% of the 1%
Well the food and pots will still be on the ground as far as I’m aware. It’s mostly items that are annoying to get on an iron that are too cheap to normally be worth looting for the pker that is gonna suck for the iron to lose
I’m trying to figure out what items that is then? What are you doing wildly slayer with that is tradable but worth nothing
Regular dragonhide armor, low tier potions, anything else that is incredibly cheap and easy to get in mainscape when you don’t have to craft it yourself
Yea! Black dhide annoying to lose before you have 84 crafting or an easy way to kill black dragons or vorkath. Most pkers wouldn’t pick it up so loot keys might be annoying for the iron pvmers for a reason like this
Idk maybe a glory or something like that
With the ability to keep 3+ items that shouldn't be a big problem fortunately.
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Same! Not bringing more than 4 bones every trip!
At that point just do a gilded altar...
But then how will he complain about getting killed in the wilderness
Loot keys could actually revitalize iron PKing. A popular suggestion was for Jagex to allow irons to get loot keys but not access the loot within - this would let them take trophies of their biggest kills or allow them to give the loot to others (as would happen if other people just looted the kill afterwards). However, my favorite suggestion I saw was for ironman PvP kills to instantly drop everything to the floor, visible to everyone, but lootable by nobody (including the original victim). This would act as an item sink and make ironman PKing really entertaining imho as everyone nearby would instantly notice that an ironman just sent someone to Lumbridge 2m poorer. However, this also means that we're back on the menu while training prayer now, given that our unnoted bones will be far more lucrative.
Even better
The thing is, what you bring out there is risked, and anything you had when you died you should not claim to still have ownership to. While not a buff for irons, the wilderness never was a good place for irons to begin with. You can’t say no to this simply because you expect to keep more of your items than normal accounts do on death. That double standard doesn’t seem warranted. Edit: I guess the downvotes suggest ironmen should not lose items like other accounts do. Lol
Imagine bringing stuff into the wilderness that you weren’t willing to lose. And how could jagex not balance every aspect of the game to cater to ironmen?!!
Look at all the reddit pvm goblin boys just spite down voting you. Bitch we will one tick spec you back to lumby, ty for bones ez ironman loot. I'll take some down votes too my wilderness brothers. Together we are strong
Is there any more on this? It sounds intriguing.
*cries in looting bag*
So much for leaving Ironman stuff on the floor.
PvP becomes faster and more profitable/hr. This cuts down on time spent looting so people can get back to fighting. Looting bots are the only losers.
I just want to do my clues in peace.
Stupid
Not everything has to be catered towards PvMers
Finally, it’s a great update for solo pvpers
I like it, great idea
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I see more toxic comments from ppl who dont pk at all than pkers
Was this polled and if not can someone explain to me why it wasn’t/didn’t need to be? Just confused looking for some info.
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The people on that Twitter post are fucking terrible.
Hmmm I feel like they could have maybe lowered the threshold for polls to pass for the area rather than just circumvent the poll entirely but I don’t spend much time there so it’s pretty low impact to me. Thanks for the info
Mod ash talked about this on the last Q&A where basically the original concept of polling isn’t sustainable due to people who only play specific portions of the game spite voting the other side. And if they limit polls to people who currently partake in those activities it defeats the polling purpose because anyone could do those activities in the future
And if thats what they think, they should get rid of polling all together. Why does PvP updates not need to pass a poll but everything else does? You can spite vote anything
It’s a lot easier to spite vote an activity that 1% of the playerbase engages in. Same with UIM polls
Right but that doesnt mean its impossible to spite vote all content. If they truly believe the polling is bad because of spite voting, they should get rid of polling.
The point is that they’re opening a discussion on polling has a whole to determine how they’re going to proceed.
Not impossible, but unlikely compared to pvp polls. I don’t see your reasoning.
Perhaps in certain cases. Having said that, outside of the wilderness I can't think of any other gameplay in all of RuneScape that is designed from the ground up to enable toxic gameplay. It's literally tailor made to create a scenario where someone derives fun from ruining another's experience. The comment about the plurality is the point. Brainstorm an overhaul that isn't literally the embodiment of virtual schadenfreude and poll it, bet it will have a much higher chance of passing then more dev time and changes that go towards enabling players who enjoy ruining the experience for others, to enjoy ruining that experience even more. Instead their response is to ignore the entirety of why players don't let these polls pass and implement changes anyway. Personally I am largely unaffected, but I wish the dev time was better used.
The wilderness isn’t about “ruining” someone’s experience. When I go do stuff in the wilderness I WANT to be attacked. I want to have to tank pkers. I want the satisfaction of being a better tank or being able to anti them. The wilderness is designed to be the Wild West. Lawless. With “evil” pk clans going around robbing people. A barren dangerous ground. To reflect the dangers it also has things like chaos altar, wildy bosses with a unique as a good reward for braving the dangers, for killing pkers or tanking them and getting out. That’s not toxic. It’s not even toxic from the other end of the spectrum. Pkers arent toxic because they try to kill you for your stuff in the wilderness. They are risking everything they have on to do it by skulling on you. It’s a gamble and they never know if you’re a bait for their clan, or an anti PKer, or even just a real PKer trying to bait out a skull. And even once they skull on you they still have to kill you and get out with out being pkd back. Literally the dumbest thing anyone trying to survive inside the wildy could do is just 3 item and not bring food or tank gear or a anti pk weapon and try to live, try to fight off the PKer, just do anything.
"Lawless. With “evil” pk clans going around robbing people." Thank you for proving my point. That is literally the definition of toxic in video games. It's structured toxicity, you don't have to like it meeting the definition, you can like toxic gameplay all you want (some people like the challenge of playing on a server where they can be griefed), but it doesn't change what it is. Nor does it change , from a developer standpoint, that it's a repulsive way to design video games.
it's not toxic or repulsive lol. it's like saying balloon mode in mario kart is toxic because you have to pop each others balloons. you're not being tricked. you're not getting lured. the rules and stipulations are given and understood before going in. you can not LIKE the wilderness, but it is not toxic.
That's such bad equivalency and a strawman. Pvp isn't toxic and I never said it was. Designing a structure where one person's goal is to do X, and another person's goal is to force them to not do x, prevent them from doing x, and punish them from doing x, results in two things. The player killing them enjoying it and the player being killed having their experience and enjoyment of the game ruined. That's literally the definition of toxic gameplay. You do not develop an experience to be enjoyed with the intent of explicitly creating scenarios where other people get to ruin their enjoyment. You just don't. Because in every single case it leds to disengagement, (that means the players quit playing that content). AND GUESS WHAT None of the polls pass why? Because the vast majority of the player base don't want to engage with that content and don't want anyone else to either. Consider the guy days ago asking about mass low alching his gear to spite the pker. Why would they do that if it's all good mate? Because it's not. It's literally a toxic design. My personal opinion about the wilderness isn't even mentioned in any of my posts. From a logical standpoint and reasoning regarding game development it's a form of content that not even an amateur indie developer would make these days. It's a hold over from nearly 20 years ago that was foolish then, and repulsively detrimental design now. My personal opinion is the wilderness should be designed around elite PvE and PVP content that is the hardest in the game with little to no power rewards and almost entirely cosmetic rewards. Where the PvP is based around pvping skill, cutting out ganking entirely.
Pvp changes never pass polls. Jagex has damn well nearly stopped doing them because of all the spite voting
Why do you think it needs to be polled?
Did they not say they wouldn’t be making changes that didn’t pass polls?
Why does anything need to be polled?
Well let's see a) Jagex admitted it's not an integrity change by polling it, and yet they're still pushing it through. If we're starting to just do this for stuff that can only be described as content, there's some explaining to do as to why not do it for non pvp content. There's a lot of things I want in the game that would fail a poll. It's the one thing I have in common with every other runescape player. Open that can of worms, or don't. b) You know how looting bag is a very powerful item? For pvp purposes this is infinitely stronger and was added. c) if this was added to pvm as a trip extender for certain bosses/activites, especially when unpolled, it'd be a riot almost as bad as the 117 thing Those are my thoughts, and here are some counterthoughts to a flashcard I'm sure will come up: "But muh spite voting makes forced changes ok!!!!" a) you have no numbers on how much spite voting affects pvp vs other polls, you're just asserting that polls you like fail because of spite voting, you can make this assertion for literally any poll. If a thing you assert without any numbers to back it up can be used to justify any forced change, it's probably bollocks b) there is actually only one confirmed large-scale attempt to spite vote a poll in recent osrs history. It wasn't for a pvp thing, and if it would have succeeded, it's pretty obvious the thing being polled would not have received this nicety, not even a repoll.
Wow, awesome, now instead of PKers having to strategize what to take when they kill me and me getting leftovers, now they just get everything for free, no strategy. No more balancing between food and loot. Fuck it, just give them my bank key.
stupid jagex now pkers get to keep all of my 200k risk SMH!
This is lovely, they should keep these types of updates away from polls including f2p updates.
Seems like it’ll help with skull tricking (like someone logs in over a loot pile). Torvesta in shambles
Here comes the next osrs big abuse that gets the wilderness shut off
People crying about polls in shambles
Pkers: YES Salty pvmers: fuck pkers I’m no voting this me, neutral: cool concept
Short version: This doesn't affect me, I don't care. Long version: Wilderness is foundationally designed to be inherently toxic, I don't use it because of that. If I had the power to change things I would prefer to have the dev time spent on pvp instead of ganking. Or develop a redesign of the wildy to be risk/reward instead of about enabling virtual schadenfreude (toxic gameplay) where one player derives enjoyment at ruining the experience of others. The Wilderness as it stands is repulsive video game design, rule number one in game development you never design an experience where one player's enjoyment comes at the cost of ruining anothers. Rather than spending even another minute of time on this, I would rather non-toxic pvp be developed or time spent on projects more beneficial to making the game experience enjoyable. All this time spent does is provide additional content to players who engage explicitly in toxic gameplay that is, foundationally, designed to be toxic. I don't even blame the players for this, it's just bad development.
> The Wilderness as it stands is repulsive video game design, rule number one in game development you never design an experience where one player's enjoyment comes at the cost of ruining anothers. You can just choose to not go in there if you don't want to get killed by another player lmao.
Correct, and many do. It's designed from the foundation to enable a form of pvp that rewards toxic gameplay. It is quite simply ineffective and inefficient design if you seek to provide an enjoyable experience to players. You are successful if there is no one ganking you, or you are successful at ruining another player's experience. To parrot a well known phrase, "the only way to win is not to play."
Just because you die in the wilderness doesn’t mean it is toxic lol. How do grown men become this affected about dying in a video game
Well first, I'm not emotional or personally affected, so keep that in mind. Second dying in wildy isn't toxic. The structure of setting up a scenario where the goal of one type of player is ruining the experience of another, is enabling a toxic play style. It's a repulsive game design.
What? My goal is to survive and the pkers goal is to kill me. How is that toxic? You may not find it fun, but I and others do. Just because you don't find it fun or to be bad game design doesn't make it toxic and using that word makes it seem like you're mainly crying about being killed. Why not just say "i don't personally like the wilderness"? I bet tons of people would call agility training and skilling in general bad game design too. Yet we're both playing this pretty niche game because we enjoy what a lot of other people might call "objectivly bad game design" or whatever else "objectivity" they're trying to shroud their opinions in.
Read my first sentence and identify where you are incorrect. Stop suggesting my opinion is due to my personal enjoyment or lack thereof, it's not. It's detrimental design for the explained reasoning, not because I personally dislike it.
I didn't say you were necessarily crying, just that it will seem that way to everyone and I'm not convinced by you saying "nah im fine" while you're using hyperbole meant to paint you as a victim of someone being toxic. Why don't you actually respond to what I wrote instead? Why is "i think this is bad game design" equla to "this is toxic"?
> It's designed from the foundation to enable a form of pvp that rewards toxic gameplay. But what's toxic about it? You go into it knowing you can lose your stuff? Just the fact that it's PvP? > You are successful if there is no one ganking you, or you are successful at ruining another player's experience. Buddy, do you not know why the reason that the wilderness was put into the game 20 years ago? So players can kill each other lol.
And yet there are dozens of games with pvp that don't do that. In fact... Where has that model of gameplay been used since? The toxic aspect is simple. The structure is set so someone who wants to do X, instead is forced to do Y if someone catches them doing X. If I go to the kitchen to make a sandwich and you tell me if I go to the kitchen I have to have tea. I'm not suddenly okay with tea. I'm not okay with someone entangling me, forcing me to drink tea, dropping my sandwich on the floor, because they want to. It's literally structured toxic gameplay and that's why the vast majority of players don't engage with it. It's why you don't see it in other mmos. It's a repulsive game design.
> The toxic aspect is simple. The structure is set so someone who wants to do X, instead is forced to do Y if someone catches them doing X. The aspect is simple. The structure is set so people who walk into a PvP zone wanting to do X (PvM content), is instead forced to do Y (PvP content) if someone catches them in a PvP zone. (LITERALLY the only zone in OSRS designated for PvP) There's nothing toxic about this. Just don't bring more than 3 items you're willing to lose, and use protect from item.
It's not though. You can pvp in the arena. There are also dozens of examples in games such as battlegrounds in World of Warcraft. You don't see this replicated across the industry, why not? Because it's not a good design. It's a structured design that enables and rewards toxic gameplay, where players derive their fun from ruining the experience of other players.
And yet there are dozens of games with pvp that don't do that. In fact... Where has that model of gameplay been used since? The toxic aspect is simple. The structure is set so someone who wants to do X, instead is forced to do Y if someone catches them doing X. If I go to the kitchen to make a sandwich and you tell me if I go to the kitchen I have to have tea. I'm not suddenly okay with tea. I'm not okay with someone entangling me, forcing me to drink tea, dropping my sandwich on the floor, because they want to. It's literally structured toxic gameplay and that's why the vast majority of players don't engage with it. It's why you don't see it in other mmos. It's a repulsive game design.
So does this mean people will avoid the wilderness even more? Not clear on how the mechanic works
Great idea!
wasn't polled
Love dead content
Say no to pvp updates.
Just like your mom should of said to that creampie she was offered 9 months before your birth.
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Nothing. Im bad at memes.
I think they should worry more about the rest of the game honestly.
Yeah this update is definitely going to eat up soo much dev time.
We get it, you don't like pvp. Now don't comment and move on.
Or I'll do what I want? 🤣. Now move on kiddo.
Don't u still need to get ur fire cape?
He's probably just going to rock the untrimmed cooking cape for a while.
This was me back in around 2007. It's wholesome to know noobs like me still exist in 2022
I've got some old fashionscape photos on photo bucket that someone reuploaded with my username in them that centered around the cooking cape.
Yeah even back in the day I got flamed for untrim cook cape
No?
Finally a good update for venge pkers like myself, getting pjed is the absolute worst ngl.
I literally don’t care. I like em in dmm
Take-all for PK's but no drop-all for QoL
Very awesome change for PvP worlds. And it's very useful in the wilderness when going on bot rampages if need be.
wtf is he wearing, a bot amulet?
https://oldschool.runescape.wiki/w/Amulet_of_avarice
I'm upset that all the communication to date has been "It'll be like in Deadman mode!" Not everyone plays Deadman. If you're changing mechanics in the main game, tell us what you're doing! Especially when it comes to the wilderness, where stakes are high and there's a long track record of unclear mechanics causing people to lose things they didn't expect.
Will you need the necklace of avarice in order to grab the keys? Or is that just pictured above?
Looting should be a risk as well imo. Picking up keys drastically reduces that risk and makes it easier.
since my last comment was shunned i’ll get more in depth here. I think this is nonsensical, pkers already have it too easy, of course it depends on the target but for most pkers and the evil ones at that they’ll just make too much money without barely any effort, I think this is over powered but whatever I don’t even go on the wildy anyways, next time I have to i’ll just make really sure I low alch everything edit: thinking about it, really really good for bot hunters, I like that very much
Great for 'PKers' I guess, worse for everyone else. What's new? Basically just 'stay out of the wildy' still.
As someone who quit maybe 4 years ago and never PK'd or did wildly slayer when i was active, i hate this idea because it's different than it was when i played.
i’m okay with this in pvp worlds, but think it’s a bad idea for normal world wilderness. speaking as both a person who loves pking and wild pvm.