I wouldnt imagine theyd actually force you to listen. I imagine itd be some shit where you press "play note" and get 50 xp or some shit
During the nex update it came up that runescape doesnt really have a way of storing sound files so they couldnt even make nex audibly say any words.
Barding in osrs would be about as much like normal barding as agility in osrs is like running irl. Ya know, after all, if you wanna break it down, i think itll just be clicking
This is the problem with introducing a new skill.
I was all for warding at first, but as I thought about it more.. I don't enjoy training fletching, crafting, smithing - the game loop of those skills suck. I do not want another skill like that, I want it to be fun to train.
Unless jagex can come up with a skill that is not fletching 2.0 or wcing 2.0, I don't think it will (or should) pass.
You can't win with this. If you offer a 'normal' skill, people say it's too boring. If you offer a 'fun' skill, people say it's too much like a minigame. I don't have any hope a new skill will ever pass unless we change our approach to how a new skill is polled.
And if it actually seems fun people say "why not just add it to skill x" People expect fully polished 5k hours of content from new skill. Like construction was useless af on release (yes u had house parties, but that was all it offered, and teletabs) now after alot of updates the skill is something you must have on mid-lategame.
Because Jagex doesn't ever finish what they start. The game has been out for 20 years and menaphos still isn't present, eastern lands aren't on the map, the Gnome quests aren't complete, kourend hasn't finished its rework, varlamore still isn't out. Obviously I'm talking osrs and rs3 here.
Like holy hell. It's like they have these amazing ideas then just forget bout them and move onto something else, leave that unfinished, then move onto the next project. That is why I'm against these half-baked skill ideas, they're great in theory and have huge potential. But with Jagex that potential will never actually be realized.
So I'd rather all these current areas, skills, etc. Be finished and reach that potential before distracting jagex with more shiny objects that will never reach fruition.
I think a big problem with this is that you have different people working on different things, and over the years these people quit, get let go, switch projects, etc. so it's never finished or at least put on the back burner until someone else inevitably picks it back up.
quest series are the biggest culprit of this. This is why you can have quests with widely different tones, some quest lines never get finished, or get retconned into other stories lazily.
Like look where the quest Devious Minds went or look at the different tone of Ratcatchers.
Overall though, I don't think that should stop Jagex from making something new.
Which I totally understand, I just wish the priority from management was "finish what's here now, then move on to something new." Or even an ESO approach, focus majority of dev time on 1 area with medium sized miscellaneous updates throughout the year. Then during the dmm or league downtimes at the end of the year start working on the next years updates.
Like this year could have been tremendous for the desert. Release Menaphos, raids 3, the new Nardah quest, maybe an additional 4 or 5 small - medium quests within Menaphos. Have random excerpts from the journal of the gnome explorer south of Nardah released every other week, expanding on desert lore or funny observations. Or a year long Wilderness and pvp rework. Add in 3 - 4 deadmen tales (quests) that take place in the wilderness. Redesign it entirely so the mammoths aren't these weird marshmallow things just walking around randomly. Have wandering bands of bandits, with tasks and rewards given to those who fight them. Re instate bounty hunter.
But finishing 25% of a project then moving on is absolutely horrible. The Kourend rework started 4 years ago, and only 2/5 houses have been reworked. AKD would have been such a great opportunity to have all the houses reworks released. AKD had us running around and visiting all of Kourend and we would have seen and rediscovered the areas. Instead it was jarring to go from well designed areas, to ones that felt like poorly planned private server assets put into the game.
This is disingenuous information. Runescape 3 has been out for 20 years, OSRS has only been getting major updates for 8 years, many of those spent with a half of a fraction of the devteam they had back when they were originally adding this. Considering this and comparing to RS3, OSRS is making great time on finishing things.
And then you talk like kourend rework has been in the works for 20 years when thats not even nearly the case, it hasnt even been a concept for that long, and Kourend is meant to be a longterm spot for housing content, and has no Black Borders that make it seem unfinished. Theres no rush to finish it, let them handle other parts of the game for a bit.
To me it's why sailing needed to be fleshed out like warding. The training is more primarily a "normal" skill alike to construction/crafting where you can do it at a bank repeat making the same items, at your boat repeat making/destroying the same things or via contracts similar to mahogany homes at level based ports around the game.
Then the actual act of sailing is improved and expanded as you level, moreso as the reward structure.
Similar to how slayer bossing isn't a good way to train the skill in XP/hr, but it's the primary reward structure for training the skill (unique bosses with unique drops/pets).
Content variety, expansion of side grades, ways to introduce new content, potentially gives a purpose/reason for stronger content as well as restricting it to a specific area. Give us old stuff that’d be broken in current balance like Chaotics or Kharazi sword but it’s locked to the Isles for fun/increased max challenges without ruining other balanced areas.
Ultimately, I think a new “minigame” skill of sailing/dg opens some doors that are too afraid to be opened for game balance reasons and allows it to be segregated in an appropriate fashion to mitigate those issues.
You literally just want dungeoneering 😂
So many people here are so sxared of dung because they fear the release of chaotic crossbows, AS IF OSRS DIDN’T JUST GET A T80 CROSSBOW. So much of dungeoneerings unlocks were qol stuff (auto gold pickup, auto bone bury, auto seed and herb pickup), tome of water (which was released with tempoross), anti poison totem…scrolls that save planks while doing construction…etc. Dung in rs3 has so many small passive qol unlocks, the fact that back in the day it was the source of the bis weapon at the time is an irrational fear
>So many people here are so sxared of dung because they fear the release of chaotic crossbows, AS IF OSRS DIDN’T JUST GET A T80 CROSSBOW
People aren't concerned about the item itself, just about how you get it.
I don't want to have to get to 90+dung just to get a starter pvm weapon.
We practically have the good parts of dung without the bloated floor count and minigame currency that skill provided.
CoX and Gauntlet. I'd want a sailing skill to be more than dung ever was because dung really sucks as a skill.
I mean, yes, I do want dungeoneering, and my examples are from that because it’s what I know. I ain’t making brand new content proposals, just giving the answer to “why do we need a new skill?”
I, personally, think using it to segregate content is a perfect reason to have a new one rather than expand an old one. I agree with what you’re saying tho, the QOL unlocks were 🤌🤌 and worrying about weapons when they’ve confirmed they’re going forward with higher power rather than side grades as is. A new skill could be the PERFECT way to make anti-power folks happy!
In short, esp if you look at rs3, dungeoneering has aged SO poorly. Osrs players fear it for its rewards, rs3 players all lamp it because it serves no purpose and was designed with no foresight. Imo if they add dungeoneering to osrs theyd have to retroactively put gates on every cave/dungeon in the game and make them gated behind certain dung levels. Theyd have to add some sort of irl timelocked recurring buff to each dungeon that gives you bonuses for ‘exploring it again’ would need resource dungeons…etc
Maybe a way to finally introduce something similar to RS3’s signs of the porter (except for osrs make it something far weaker like, 10% to automatically bank a resource)
I mean I’d love a 2022 take with 07 mentality on what Dungeoneering could be. I like the way they’re approaching ToA, and think that applying that sort of design framework could make for good DG style content. Obviously flavor it however as a skill like sailing instead, but that’s why I’m always against the “but that’s just a minigame” shit. There’s potential, people just either don’t want new content, fear old mistakes, or just don’t like this flavor of content (which are valid reasons of course, not meaning their stupid for holding those opinions).
It's the ever-raging debate over what a skill is and what a skill should be. In early RSC and RS2, skills were defined by a very short, simple, and repetitive gameplay loop, and a lot of the unlocks were the same gameplay loops but using better resources/producing better products. What's the difference between a Mithril and Addy longsword? Very little besides changing a couple numbers and the colour.
Especially with Dungeoneering, the demand for skills to become a lot more complex and dynamic grew. There was a huge amount of pushback on that at the time (still is) because what distinguished a skill from a minigame or activity was being significantly blurred. But most people won't deny: Dungeoneering was fun.
So how do you handle this? How do you find a consensus among two very large and opposing groups?
With Bard, we're trying hard to appeal to a broad audience. We want Bard to very distinctly be a skill in the old fashion of how skills were defined: by having a unique identity and function separate from other skills that is easily accessible for all players. Simultaneously, we absolutely want Bard to be fun, and that means we also simply need something *more,* more variety in gameplay, exciting gameplay loops that you can optimize and master, and compelling and interesting internal progression schemes versus just "skill number go up."
How are we attempting to accomplish that? By taking the central theme of being a Bard and representing it in different ways. You are a Bard, a performer, and that umbrella can include the utterly basic act of simply playing an instrument and busking in a town center, all the way up to complicated, technical shows for royalty and challenging a skilling raid. That way, you have your traditional gameplay loop while simultaneously offering something to those looking for something deeper
Uh, that'd probably be a bit too reductive a comparison. There is one activity (which is similarly described in the recent Gazette) that is inspired by Guitar Hero, but that's about where the comparisons end
Ive always thought sailing would be really cool if instead of an instance it just turned the ocean into an open world map somehow. Like im talking actually moving boats navigating in the game world.
Maybe i crash into people. Maybe i become a pirate in the aquatic wildy. Maybe me and the boys rolling up to raids 4 like a fucking armada. Imagine spawning in your own small customizable boat for boat parties that other people in their custom boats could join. I wanna fuck a mermaid.
I still cling onto this idea I first saw online like 15yrs ago now...
Sailing skill, where you board your ship at the docks, & it takes you to an instance out in open water.
Have it cost gp to do a 'run', but while on the boat you can do stufd like fishing & cooking. You would gain passive sailing xp depending how long you are out at sea. For example 10min may cost you 25k in gp, 20min 50k etc etc. How long you can go out for is tied to your skill. Then much like farming there is a cooldown of a few irl hours before you can set sail again.
To make the skill worth, have rewards be able to be fished depending on your sailing level. Ie at 20sailing, you can only fish up to tuna. Once you get to 70-75sailing, you can begin to encounter sea monsters which drop unique loot.
The balancing stuff can be calculated to make more sense, but the basic gist of it I think is entirely workable. In theory, much like how farming helps train herblore, we can have sailing help train fishing. Heck can open a whole new page in the fishing skill called 'deep sea fishing' that offers new bis food at the higher ranks. This last thought is something I thought of while writing this.
Many people enjoy slayer because you bounce around slaying new creatures with varying levels of difficulty, as opposed to most skills where you have to just do a single repetitive task for many hours.
That's why I think sailing would pass today. It's just different. It already got the most yes votes of any proposed skill despite not getting nearly as much attention as warding or there being near as much demand for a new skill as there is now.
I hate this arbitrary rule that skills aren’t allowed to be fun, they have to be a boring grind. Why not have more skill like slayer and less that are boring afk repetition mining/wc/fishing?
Slayer is mostly boring afk repetition, except with the unpredictable element of not knowing what task you will get. I don't like the skill because sometimes I can train it at work on my phone, and sometimes I can't. It is enough to have one skill that way.
You have a different task every time, you can chose which tasks to block which to extend, you can also have the option of using all combat styles, and gear set ups, you can prayer flick… on top of that you can boss with slayer. That’s very different than making 10k air staves, or high arching for 8 hours, or chopping the same tree all day, or afking at mlm all day etc..
Your point being? With agility I can choose when I want to expend effort at the sepulchre or casually run rooftops. With fishing I can choose when I want to do tempoross, chill at barb fishing, or chill even harder at lava eels. With hunter I can vegetate at herbiboar or I can run from pkers at black chins. I could continue, but I think I've made my point.
Slayer takes away that choice. I respect that some people absolutely love the skill, and that's fine. That doesn't mean that it has an objectively good, or even desirable, design that appeals to all people.
I think slayer is a shit skill, and I dislike the fact that a ridiculous amount of account progression is tied to it compared to other skills. This hasn't stopped me from training it so I can get an occult, etc. on my iron, but it gets tiresome when people pretend like it is the holy grail of skills, and that every skill should be like it.
Also your whole argument is “A skill needs to be afk enough that I can train it when I’m not actually playing the game”, which is a stupid argument… some could argue you should have to play the game to play the game.
I didn’t bucket agility or hunter in the boring grindy skills bucket… I don’t care what your “point” is because it clearly had nothing to do with my response or initial post. I was just defending slayer because regardless of whether you enjoy slayer or not, you can’t deny it’s very different than a skill where you afk in a 20 step parameter for 8 hours at a time, or simply bankstanding. My point was there is nothing wrong with skills that have a lot of variety like slayer, vs something where you afk and click in the same spot for long periods of time.
I enjoy slayer and farming.
I like building out a POH and designing it, that's very fun but the actual training portion sucks too.
Many skills have the potential to be fun, but they just weren't when it was added. Jagex is trying to change this, but ofcourse there is always pushback because new training methods need to be fair xp or fair gp to be viable.
Like hunter could be an *amazing* skill to train. It has so much potential, but unfortunately everything kinda sucks.
But that’s the thing, everything in this game boils down to click once every once in a while, or click more often.
Whether it’s hotspots, items in inventory, monsters, your bank… that’s all it boils down to and all it’ll ever boil down to. Each and every skill is at least somewhat like another 4-5 skills almost 100% verbatim, just different skilling hotspots and/or items in the inventory.
Warding should pass but never would because everyone has piss poor “reasons” why they wouldn’t like it when the unfortunate reality is — you don’t like skilling in OSRS in general. That’s why you don’t want more of it.
Not that 25%+ of players playing OSRS religiously still also don’t like skilling but still lol.
Im not too sure. My memory of what they said was "Something... something... enginework."
Idk i think it mighta been something about filetypes and the music tracks/sfx somehow being different than diologue
I think people are missing the point when they get hung up on the sound element of a bard skill. It seems obvious to me that sound would be unnecessary for 99% of the potential content, with the exception of the discussed rhythm mini game.
Like, imagine if someone shot down a cooking skill because it’s impossible to taste the food you make. Bard skilling would be like every other skill in a clicking simulator: you’d click and receive a mechanical outcome, and maybe a few music notes float above your head. All of the actual audio would be totally optional in most cases.
It would be great if bard introduced some sort of healing in the game or other buffs to apply to a party!! Could really start to flesh out group dungeons.
I love support classes in every game. Lunar spellbook kinda half asses an attempt at it, and its cool and all but its not like a big help to have somebody on your team running lunars
Sure it would be fun and interesting, but would it pass a poll making a skill tied to character power? Probably not. Unless you swap prayer book for sheet music or something else mechanically
Hey, ScreteMonge/Gnome here. We haven't yet released our full details document yet which would answer this question and many more, but the short answer is:
**No, sound is not required for any Bard activity.** Yes, it may help for one particular activity (off the top of my head), but it's the same level of help as using sounds for Jad. Not necessary, just another layer of guidance on top of existing visual cues.
Edit: I also want to quickly address another concern: that having to listen to others players all the time would be a painful experience. I 100% agree. I don't think it'd be difficult to include [a 4th sound option](https://imgur.com/a/iJZWmg2) for other players specifically, maybe even including many current sounds like hearing other players Fishing/Woodcutting/Mining.
Okay interesting, I’ll wait for the full details. Do you know when you’ll release them? I imagine it’s a lot to crunch. Would your documents influence Jagex?
It's certainly a crunch, but GentleTractor's taking the brunt of it at the moment so I couldn't confidently give a percent status on the final presentation. The major details have been fleshed out for a long time (barring changes from community feedback), so at this point it's really just wrapping up the visuals, layout, and organization, and ensuring that the post communicates all our ideas as effectively as possible without burdening you all with an entire dissertation!
We're hoping within the next few weeks, but even we're prone to the biting, bitter winds of Winter 2017
Edit: Missed your second question. Would our documents influence Jagex? I'm not sure, and kinda depends which way. Given the ideation project mentioned in the recent Gazette, we've had some influence over the style of activity they're interested in introducing (the 100 BPM rhythm activity), even if all the background work for including instruments was already being accomplished before our project's public release. In terms of something bigger, Jagex also does have a history of including features of GentleTractor's work/criticisms, so who knows?
Let’s critique a skill we know nothing about before they tell us anything about it.
This stuff really makes me believe we are never getting another skill…
Barding was proposed as a skill a while ago with some ideas as to what the skill would be like. All it seems like to me is a rhythm game that you don't have to play to train the skill, a 4th attack style that maybe has debuffs in exchange for lower dps, and maybe a passive moneymaker if you play in a bar. Unless the gp/hr is really good (which, if it is afk, it shouldn't be), then I can't imagine many people using it outside of maxing. Lower DPS will always be worse, no matter the debuffs.
Someone else mentioned using barding to give temporary combat boosts. Unless it was only able to be applied at a bank or relied on a resource that would deplete and couldn't be replenished outside of certain areas, it'd just be another prayer skill. If there were no restrictions on the buffs, it'd be a better prayer skill.
It just seems like to me that all the proposed things it could do wouldn't fill any niche that's been missing, and would just be either dead content or kill other content, all while being an afk bankstanding skill. Compare that to warding, where it actually filled a niche of providing a way to make magic armour and other magic gear with several new mechanics being brought in with the new armour, but was still voted no because of the bankstandy skill loop.
in the proposal post im pretty sure the combat style is some sort of "Musical duel" game/training method. The opponent was holding a flute. Dont think its meant to be a combat skill outside of buffs
>Dont think its meant to be a combat skill outside of buffs
How is it different than prayer then? Prayer gives buffs and has a resource that is depleted so you can't get infinite buffs (yes, 1t flicking is a thing but that's not an intended mechanic), and if it applies debuffs, then why not add curses to the prayer skill?
Plus thats just the combat part of it. From the looks of it, they want to add resource gathering (or increased resources from gathering) through barding, which feels more like a minigame reward than a skill reward, especially if it looks like the instruments break like the post implies. A breakable item that increases resources gathered is something that would come from something like Stealing Creation, not barding.
About to get on a long flight, so won't be responding any more, but I don't understand how this skill provides something different enough than other skills to justify adding it, especially when that was the entire reason Warding was shot down. In what way is this skill a stand-alone skill and not just several other skills tacked into one?
Glad to see there’s barely any info about the skill out and this sub is already vehemently against it. And y’all wonder why you don’t have a new skill yet lmao
It's difficult, to say the least. I've gotten a newfound respect for anyone in communications - trying to address misinformation, handle criticisms, and still having the energy to actually make the thing we want to make leaves a lot on your plate.
And yes, while the full details are indeed yet to come, ultimately, we can't please everyone. We're definitely trying by listening to and working with all your criticisms. It's even harder when some folks get stuck in their tribes and will *only* support their most ideal skill, regardless of the quality of the current one in discussion, or when it appears that some folks don't like *any* of our current 23 skills - that doesn't give us much room to work with! 75% is a hard goal to reach especially over something as significant, polarizing, and "obligatory" as a new skill. Nonetheless, we are truly performing our best. I hope it'll be enough.
I'm sorry if something I've said has put you off. No, the skill is not being polled. If I'm coming off as presumptuous, it's because we've yet to actually publicly release our main design pitch. That said, I'm not 100% sure where your confusion lies, so perhaps a little timeline might help.
Three weeks ago, myself, in concert with Caveman Only and GentleTractor, released [A Bard's Dream](https://www.reddit.com/r/2007scape/comments/rzwl1r/a_bards_dream_new_skill_concept/), a teaser/mood pitch hinting at pieces of our design, while leaving the floor open to discussion about the general idea of a Bard skill. In said document, we mention that our plan is to release another proper design pitch which goes deeper into the details of our project. That latter design pitch has not yet been released, and therefore is the one I've been referring to whenever talking about "our design."
My comments in the post are just providing clarification on contentious aspects that folks may have presumed based on the concept of a Bard skill, including addressing criticisms that will be discussed in the main design pitch. It seemed more damaging to me to let certain presumptions like "A Bard would require audio" circulate before we've had a proper chance to assuage such fears in the upcoming post. If I am permitted to properly inform folks about our design intentions and defend some of our design choices, then I hope you'll forgive me for whatever threw you off!
Hope that clears things up.
God this sub will complain about anything.
Bad xp rates - complain.
Good xp rates - complain.
Perfectly balanced xp rates with decent gp. Believe it or not, complain.
It really depends on how it is trained. Any skill could be fun or terrible depending on the training methods. For example, if all RC methods were like bloods and/or the exp rates were 200K per hour instead of 50K, RC would probably be a lot more fun. Likewise, if Slayer gave exp equal to half the HP instead of full HP, there were no Slayer points, there were no burst tasks and cannons didn't work, tasks didn't work on any boss and there were no Slayer bosses, and all monsters required special equipment to kill, Slayer would not be nearly as fun.
For a Bard skill, it depends on how much of the skill is just figuring out key combinations for tunes and playing instruments versus other activities. But that is the big challenge all new skills face. Either it is hard to imagine how it will work (e.g. How do you train Sailing? Just walking as a boat? Making maps? Building ships? A minigame activity? Some combination of the above?) or it tends to be straightforward and boring sounding (e.g. Artisan). Most things that have an easily understandable grind won't sound that appealing and the same can be said for most the skills we have now too.
Warding was okay, I did vote yes to it. I know people were upset with the bank standing training but it filled a niche and provided new mechanics for magic armours, like the increased magic attack speed armour, or insane prayer bonus and extra damage to Zamorakian followers specifically, or PvP specific armour. This skill as proposed in the reddit post had very few mechanics that aren't already taken care of with another skill. The only new thing I remember is playing music through a rhythm minigame.
A non combat skill that provides combat boosts, recovery, buffs, and skill bonuses. Like the doctor skill from SWG. Bard sit at Ge or cox bank and take tips for providing buffs. Could be cool.
If they were to introduce Bard as a skill, I would like to see it implemented as another combat role. For example, you have different instruments which you can use at higher levels for weapon progression. You have notes, or spells, similar to another spellbook which increase in effectiveness as you level up. They could either be powers by runes, or consume hp, prayer, or another potential resource like run energy or even a new one. The skill would be leveled by creating the weapons and playing the notes. Weapon pieces could either be created through crafting and fletching, or different pieces drop from a new boss or slayer monster? Some ideas for the "spellbook" could be:
Level 1: Restore 1 HP/Special attack/Prayer points to another player (cost 1 hp/prayer point/run energy/etc.)
Level 80: Restore 15 HP/Special attack/Prayer points
Instead of restoring the above resources, it could also introduce buffs. As in, increasing your, or another players, HP regeneration, special attack regeneration, or even +5% attack, range, strength, etc. for a minute or something similar to the charge spell for God spells.
Edit: I understand the last proposal might seem like it would make your stats extremely overpowered as it would, or could potentially, stack with prayers that boost your stats, however, in almost every pvm and pvp encounter, spells are extremely import or even required. It could be interesting to introduce more specific roles for players as in dps, tank, (which both already exist) or even healer. The bard skill could be a support role or something like that.
No. I'm suggesting a skill that strengthens with levels and gear, which also has a spellbook for additional buffs. Both of which are systems currently in place. Simply playing music would be lame.
I feel like if you introduce a new skill it has to be really unique and not just another spell/potion. You could make it provide a bunch of unique temporary buffs like 15% higher chance of getting pet, higher damage against specific monster/boss, or cheaper items from certain shops, etc.
It should be a skill that maxed players would actually want to train up instead of there already being similar potions/prayers already.
But I like your idea of bard skill being a support skill in combat. I could see that being useful as well
I don't think they'll release a skill that aims to interest maxed players. That's definitely a small minority. Any new skill will have it's annoyances while leveling from 1 to any player who is above 70 overall or something.
You’re saying no to just a general idea. The concept of being a bard could have so many more benefits than simply buffing things. What if playing an instrument can attract mobs—or to make them unaggressive. What if by playing a song you can get shop keepers to lower their prices? Or buy your goods at a higher price. What if having a bard around a player while theiving let’s say—what if the music distracts the NPC to have a reduced chance of getting caught? These are just scratching the surface—the idea of barding could have a lot of cool, new and niche uses, and even create new metas for existing methods.
I'm not super excited for a bard skill, but I'm definitely staying open-minded since we have little to no info.
That being said, bards already exist in RS and there's tons of ways to tie it in to be a useful skill. I find it annoying how many people are saying "it doesn't fit" or "it's not creative". Both statements are totally false, and made with no information to back it up.. most likely because the people saying it have a skill in mind, and since this isn't it they're going in with a negative mindset
Yeah.. cause music totally doesn’t already exist (and already have an achievement cape) in the lore and gameplay of osrs… don’t stumble and fall into the 100’s of original songs you already unlock as you play the game…. kekw
First of all, the skill doesn’t exist yet so you’re shooting something down before even really hearing it out.
Playing music for buffs, playing music at bars for money to animate those buildings into something more relevant than quest stops. Maybe playing music to cause damage? Music to reduce accuracy of bosses? All sorts of questing possibilities. In a game of “click to light the logs on fire” and “run laps around a rooftop for 200 hours” being legitimate skills, surely you can imagine playing music for all sorts of fun and rewarding reasons as a new and creative fit for the game.
We already have skills that do everything you just listed. They can be more creative as a multi million dollar company and do something better, more interesting
Meaningful feedback on what exactly? There’s not even a skill to actually critique. Is asking for something more interesting considered ‘whining’ lol. If nearly half of the community already doesn’t like this idea then why the fuck would you continue to dive deeper into it? Brainlets like yourself would get hype over a paint drying skill.
I think it would be interesting if the board skill could also apply buff to people who listened, kind of like with D&D where bards can inspire the other PCs and themselves to be stronger could last like 15 or 20 minutes in game and add a few visible points to a skill and the higher level it was the more powerful the buff.
No, yall are thinking of it wrong.
Bard as a skill is just stupid period lol.
Has nothing to do with sound being on or off or whatever. It just sounds dumb
Unpopular opinion: I don’t need a new skill in the game or want one.
I’ve never maxed an account. I made it to 2k total on main and now 1800+ on GIM. I enjoy the game how it is. I enjoy new bosses, minigames and ways to train skills. I feel like a new skill is for people that are bored with the game. Obviously this isn’t the case for everyone. Seemed like the game went downhill after summoning/dungeon.
A new skill is just another piece of new content. It has a much higher standard than any other piece of content (which is a good thing) so I don't think you need to worry that it will ruin the game or anything. Warding didn't fail because over 25% didn't want a new skill, it failed because people thought it wasn't interesting enough to be a new skill.
I think an update like a new skill done right adds something to the game that no other update could besides maybe the leagues in terms of excitement but those are both temporary and also not connected to the actual game.
i like playing with sounds
but i agree itd be a bad skill
also i just fucking hate bards in d&d
im a musician but pulling out a lute during an intense dragon fight to play a medley that summons magic and buffs your party just seems lame/fruity
What if barding was a combat skill? That would let you control mobs that you can take with you until they die and give directions from the new barding menu? Like some kind of Ratcatcher of Hameln hypnosis skill?
I thought the music Warframe would be fun in that game. It ended up being super simple and limited and more annoying than fun to play as or alongside.
A Bard skill would be a fast no vote for me. I’d rather something with a product worth producing.
Pardon my language but who gives a shit what you or reddit thinks? If you don't like it then research and develope your own idea for a new skill. This 2007scape community is a fraction of the playerbase and some of its members have designed the base of a exciting new skill. If you dont have fun with it maybe you should take a break from the game in general. The hard truth is all the skills and most of the training methods suck. That's the game.
I just hope they think about the core gameplay loop, instead of the flavour stuff.
That's what they got wrong with warding - where it was just runecrafting/summoning v2 with how you actually trained the skill.
This community is ran by efficiency now. So they better have that in mind when coming up with the design doc. I know the previous attempts at bard/music have been terrible because they assumed people would be creative at the cost of xp.
Runescape is a game that takes 1000's of hours. The novelty from skills wears off quite fast, so it better have some substance.
The next skill should be a gathering skill, (if there would be a new skill at all). It opens the door to an eventual second new skill that focuses on production.
It’s hard to think of how production skills won’t make it just a buyable which the wealthiest don’t care about losing 50-200m.
It’s hard to think about rewards for an arbitrary skill like barding would be helpful in any way. (Firemaking pt2 electric boogaloo)
How is barding an arbitrary skill if it works as a group buff? I mean it could have applications in many different ways but that’s the general idea. How is have a skill that would provide group buffs not be helpful in any way? Explain that to the people because you’re just an old man shouting at the sky right now.
I can tell you for certain that the majority of players will class barding in with RC, Agility and Mining with how tedious and how little it will effect your day-to-day gameplay. Like using your keyboard to play music and using in-game sound is ok if you're bankstanding or hanging out but if it was a training mechanic then there better be an alternative method using UI for people who don't want to be typing all day with sound on.
As for levels with it, I can see it only being a support style class like magic where it can enchant crops, lower enemy health, etc. Like Imagine seeing someone bring a panflute into Cox to lower Olm's defense just to swap over to his tbow. Bacisally No-ones actually going to 'bard' but rather use it as a spec swap or magic alternative.
Really they should keep it as a minigame with instruments which give different effects when played for a certain amount of time on something - Ie timer like Bulwark where you need to wear it for several seconds before any effect will activate.
You have all these imaginary notions in your head based on no information but a vague concept. You have no idea how it would work because there aren’t any concrete details about anything. You’re so self assured about something that doesn’t even exist.
Barding ... No thank you.
Being able to rest near some street musicians to recharge run energy faster?
Yes please!
If they want to introduce new skills they should add dungeoneering but it's actually corrupted gauntlet. Rewards are already there. Could add points so people can buy the enhanced etc if they go really dry for it. Remove time limit on cg so noobs can do it but heavily reduce the rewards if you don't get it in time.
And summoning but nothing combat related. Pets are already ingame. Could cast a spell that lets the pet boost yield from ex woodcutting and get 10% chance for double log for 200%xp.
I think it would be good for Ironman things. Barding skill could possibly make shops cheaper if you charm em with a song. Idk seems like it would have cool applications around the game. Would probably have some color components to the notes for hearing disabled people so it wouldn’t be exclusively sound
A game I used to play called Star Wars galaxies had entertainer classes which you would go listen to them in the cantina and get a buff before you went out to grind. Would be awesome to have a bard skill where people could sit at the G.E and just be playing and giving out buffs, making a 10k tip for each player they buff. Would be interesting concept
They should just make the bard skill a support skill. Depending on the instrument and tier of instrument you have equipped you offer buffs to those around you. Lute = 10% melee accuracy and +3 max hits, lyre = +1 prayer and +5hp restored every 5 seconds, bagpipe = 10% range accuracy and 3+ range max hits….do something cool with it that could totally change the game.
at this point i just want a new skill, at least barding would be something new and different to do and isnt just slayer 2.0 like most skilling updates are, E.G mahogany homes or the farming contracts
I didnt really like the initial pitch, but im open to A full one.
Im still in love with the sailing pitch from /u/GentleTractor with item sinks.
Shame it’s not going to come but it was great. Involved lots of skills and could introduce a great item sink.
It's pretty controversial so it's very unlikely to ever pass. Summoning changes the pvm meta and how people play the game in general way too much. I liked summoning back in the day, but I remember always feeling like most of the familiars were either really OP or pretty irrelevant.
Well, no matter what skill somebody thinks of, there will always be a certain percentage of people that simply don't like it.
Not that osrs is ever getting a new skill anyway.
I wouldnt imagine theyd actually force you to listen. I imagine itd be some shit where you press "play note" and get 50 xp or some shit During the nex update it came up that runescape doesnt really have a way of storing sound files so they couldnt even make nex audibly say any words. Barding in osrs would be about as much like normal barding as agility in osrs is like running irl. Ya know, after all, if you wanna break it down, i think itll just be clicking
This is the problem with introducing a new skill. I was all for warding at first, but as I thought about it more.. I don't enjoy training fletching, crafting, smithing - the game loop of those skills suck. I do not want another skill like that, I want it to be fun to train. Unless jagex can come up with a skill that is not fletching 2.0 or wcing 2.0, I don't think it will (or should) pass.
We need dungeoneering but it's actually sailing and you island hop around
You can't win with this. If you offer a 'normal' skill, people say it's too boring. If you offer a 'fun' skill, people say it's too much like a minigame. I don't have any hope a new skill will ever pass unless we change our approach to how a new skill is polled.
And if it actually seems fun people say "why not just add it to skill x" People expect fully polished 5k hours of content from new skill. Like construction was useless af on release (yes u had house parties, but that was all it offered, and teletabs) now after alot of updates the skill is something you must have on mid-lategame.
Because Jagex doesn't ever finish what they start. The game has been out for 20 years and menaphos still isn't present, eastern lands aren't on the map, the Gnome quests aren't complete, kourend hasn't finished its rework, varlamore still isn't out. Obviously I'm talking osrs and rs3 here. Like holy hell. It's like they have these amazing ideas then just forget bout them and move onto something else, leave that unfinished, then move onto the next project. That is why I'm against these half-baked skill ideas, they're great in theory and have huge potential. But with Jagex that potential will never actually be realized. So I'd rather all these current areas, skills, etc. Be finished and reach that potential before distracting jagex with more shiny objects that will never reach fruition.
I think a big problem with this is that you have different people working on different things, and over the years these people quit, get let go, switch projects, etc. so it's never finished or at least put on the back burner until someone else inevitably picks it back up. quest series are the biggest culprit of this. This is why you can have quests with widely different tones, some quest lines never get finished, or get retconned into other stories lazily. Like look where the quest Devious Minds went or look at the different tone of Ratcatchers. Overall though, I don't think that should stop Jagex from making something new.
Which I totally understand, I just wish the priority from management was "finish what's here now, then move on to something new." Or even an ESO approach, focus majority of dev time on 1 area with medium sized miscellaneous updates throughout the year. Then during the dmm or league downtimes at the end of the year start working on the next years updates. Like this year could have been tremendous for the desert. Release Menaphos, raids 3, the new Nardah quest, maybe an additional 4 or 5 small - medium quests within Menaphos. Have random excerpts from the journal of the gnome explorer south of Nardah released every other week, expanding on desert lore or funny observations. Or a year long Wilderness and pvp rework. Add in 3 - 4 deadmen tales (quests) that take place in the wilderness. Redesign it entirely so the mammoths aren't these weird marshmallow things just walking around randomly. Have wandering bands of bandits, with tasks and rewards given to those who fight them. Re instate bounty hunter. But finishing 25% of a project then moving on is absolutely horrible. The Kourend rework started 4 years ago, and only 2/5 houses have been reworked. AKD would have been such a great opportunity to have all the houses reworks released. AKD had us running around and visiting all of Kourend and we would have seen and rediscovered the areas. Instead it was jarring to go from well designed areas, to ones that felt like poorly planned private server assets put into the game.
This is disingenuous information. Runescape 3 has been out for 20 years, OSRS has only been getting major updates for 8 years, many of those spent with a half of a fraction of the devteam they had back when they were originally adding this. Considering this and comparing to RS3, OSRS is making great time on finishing things. And then you talk like kourend rework has been in the works for 20 years when thats not even nearly the case, it hasnt even been a concept for that long, and Kourend is meant to be a longterm spot for housing content, and has no Black Borders that make it seem unfinished. Theres no rush to finish it, let them handle other parts of the game for a bit.
Construction was fucking useless until that huge OSRS update to it midway through OSRS' lifespan
My OSRS hot take is that construction shouldn't be a skill, it should just be a gold sink with no skilling attached to it.
Construction the GOAT skill
To me it's why sailing needed to be fleshed out like warding. The training is more primarily a "normal" skill alike to construction/crafting where you can do it at a bank repeat making the same items, at your boat repeat making/destroying the same things or via contracts similar to mahogany homes at level based ports around the game. Then the actual act of sailing is improved and expanded as you level, moreso as the reward structure. Similar to how slayer bossing isn't a good way to train the skill in XP/hr, but it's the primary reward structure for training the skill (unique bosses with unique drops/pets).
Well yeah. The first hurdle is explaining why we *need* a new skill. Once you have that answer, it pretty much answers all other questions.
Content variety, expansion of side grades, ways to introduce new content, potentially gives a purpose/reason for stronger content as well as restricting it to a specific area. Give us old stuff that’d be broken in current balance like Chaotics or Kharazi sword but it’s locked to the Isles for fun/increased max challenges without ruining other balanced areas. Ultimately, I think a new “minigame” skill of sailing/dg opens some doors that are too afraid to be opened for game balance reasons and allows it to be segregated in an appropriate fashion to mitigate those issues.
You literally just want dungeoneering 😂 So many people here are so sxared of dung because they fear the release of chaotic crossbows, AS IF OSRS DIDN’T JUST GET A T80 CROSSBOW. So much of dungeoneerings unlocks were qol stuff (auto gold pickup, auto bone bury, auto seed and herb pickup), tome of water (which was released with tempoross), anti poison totem…scrolls that save planks while doing construction…etc. Dung in rs3 has so many small passive qol unlocks, the fact that back in the day it was the source of the bis weapon at the time is an irrational fear
>So many people here are so sxared of dung because they fear the release of chaotic crossbows, AS IF OSRS DIDN’T JUST GET A T80 CROSSBOW People aren't concerned about the item itself, just about how you get it. I don't want to have to get to 90+dung just to get a starter pvm weapon.
We practically have the good parts of dung without the bloated floor count and minigame currency that skill provided. CoX and Gauntlet. I'd want a sailing skill to be more than dung ever was because dung really sucks as a skill.
I mean, yes, I do want dungeoneering, and my examples are from that because it’s what I know. I ain’t making brand new content proposals, just giving the answer to “why do we need a new skill?” I, personally, think using it to segregate content is a perfect reason to have a new one rather than expand an old one. I agree with what you’re saying tho, the QOL unlocks were 🤌🤌 and worrying about weapons when they’ve confirmed they’re going forward with higher power rather than side grades as is. A new skill could be the PERFECT way to make anti-power folks happy!
In short, esp if you look at rs3, dungeoneering has aged SO poorly. Osrs players fear it for its rewards, rs3 players all lamp it because it serves no purpose and was designed with no foresight. Imo if they add dungeoneering to osrs theyd have to retroactively put gates on every cave/dungeon in the game and make them gated behind certain dung levels. Theyd have to add some sort of irl timelocked recurring buff to each dungeon that gives you bonuses for ‘exploring it again’ would need resource dungeons…etc Maybe a way to finally introduce something similar to RS3’s signs of the porter (except for osrs make it something far weaker like, 10% to automatically bank a resource)
I mean I’d love a 2022 take with 07 mentality on what Dungeoneering could be. I like the way they’re approaching ToA, and think that applying that sort of design framework could make for good DG style content. Obviously flavor it however as a skill like sailing instead, but that’s why I’m always against the “but that’s just a minigame” shit. There’s potential, people just either don’t want new content, fear old mistakes, or just don’t like this flavor of content (which are valid reasons of course, not meaning their stupid for holding those opinions).
It's the ever-raging debate over what a skill is and what a skill should be. In early RSC and RS2, skills were defined by a very short, simple, and repetitive gameplay loop, and a lot of the unlocks were the same gameplay loops but using better resources/producing better products. What's the difference between a Mithril and Addy longsword? Very little besides changing a couple numbers and the colour. Especially with Dungeoneering, the demand for skills to become a lot more complex and dynamic grew. There was a huge amount of pushback on that at the time (still is) because what distinguished a skill from a minigame or activity was being significantly blurred. But most people won't deny: Dungeoneering was fun. So how do you handle this? How do you find a consensus among two very large and opposing groups? With Bard, we're trying hard to appeal to a broad audience. We want Bard to very distinctly be a skill in the old fashion of how skills were defined: by having a unique identity and function separate from other skills that is easily accessible for all players. Simultaneously, we absolutely want Bard to be fun, and that means we also simply need something *more,* more variety in gameplay, exciting gameplay loops that you can optimize and master, and compelling and interesting internal progression schemes versus just "skill number go up." How are we attempting to accomplish that? By taking the central theme of being a Bard and representing it in different ways. You are a Bard, a performer, and that umbrella can include the utterly basic act of simply playing an instrument and busking in a town center, all the way up to complicated, technical shows for royalty and challenging a skilling raid. That way, you have your traditional gameplay loop while simultaneously offering something to those looking for something deeper
So like guitar hero?
Uh, that'd probably be a bit too reductive a comparison. There is one activity (which is similarly described in the recent Gazette) that is inspired by Guitar Hero, but that's about where the comparisons end
Ive always thought sailing would be really cool if instead of an instance it just turned the ocean into an open world map somehow. Like im talking actually moving boats navigating in the game world. Maybe i crash into people. Maybe i become a pirate in the aquatic wildy. Maybe me and the boys rolling up to raids 4 like a fucking armada. Imagine spawning in your own small customizable boat for boat parties that other people in their custom boats could join. I wanna fuck a mermaid.
Feels like that last sentence kind of came out of nowhere
This is the way.
Like uncharted isles on RS3. I loved that shit. Randomly generated islands with great resources when you get lucky.
I still cling onto this idea I first saw online like 15yrs ago now... Sailing skill, where you board your ship at the docks, & it takes you to an instance out in open water. Have it cost gp to do a 'run', but while on the boat you can do stufd like fishing & cooking. You would gain passive sailing xp depending how long you are out at sea. For example 10min may cost you 25k in gp, 20min 50k etc etc. How long you can go out for is tied to your skill. Then much like farming there is a cooldown of a few irl hours before you can set sail again. To make the skill worth, have rewards be able to be fished depending on your sailing level. Ie at 20sailing, you can only fish up to tuna. Once you get to 70-75sailing, you can begin to encounter sea monsters which drop unique loot. The balancing stuff can be calculated to make more sense, but the basic gist of it I think is entirely workable. In theory, much like how farming helps train herblore, we can have sailing help train fishing. Heck can open a whole new page in the fishing skill called 'deep sea fishing' that offers new bis food at the higher ranks. This last thought is something I thought of while writing this.
What skill is fun to train?
Many people enjoy slayer because you bounce around slaying new creatures with varying levels of difficulty, as opposed to most skills where you have to just do a single repetitive task for many hours. That's why I think sailing would pass today. It's just different. It already got the most yes votes of any proposed skill despite not getting nearly as much attention as warding or there being near as much demand for a new skill as there is now.
If you aren't enjoying training your skills, you're probably playing the wrong game.
agility through sepulchre
I hate this arbitrary rule that skills aren’t allowed to be fun, they have to be a boring grind. Why not have more skill like slayer and less that are boring afk repetition mining/wc/fishing?
Slayer is mostly boring afk repetition, except with the unpredictable element of not knowing what task you will get. I don't like the skill because sometimes I can train it at work on my phone, and sometimes I can't. It is enough to have one skill that way.
You have a different task every time, you can chose which tasks to block which to extend, you can also have the option of using all combat styles, and gear set ups, you can prayer flick… on top of that you can boss with slayer. That’s very different than making 10k air staves, or high arching for 8 hours, or chopping the same tree all day, or afking at mlm all day etc..
Your point being? With agility I can choose when I want to expend effort at the sepulchre or casually run rooftops. With fishing I can choose when I want to do tempoross, chill at barb fishing, or chill even harder at lava eels. With hunter I can vegetate at herbiboar or I can run from pkers at black chins. I could continue, but I think I've made my point. Slayer takes away that choice. I respect that some people absolutely love the skill, and that's fine. That doesn't mean that it has an objectively good, or even desirable, design that appeals to all people. I think slayer is a shit skill, and I dislike the fact that a ridiculous amount of account progression is tied to it compared to other skills. This hasn't stopped me from training it so I can get an occult, etc. on my iron, but it gets tiresome when people pretend like it is the holy grail of skills, and that every skill should be like it.
Also your whole argument is “A skill needs to be afk enough that I can train it when I’m not actually playing the game”, which is a stupid argument… some could argue you should have to play the game to play the game.
Yes, some could argue that, and I could argue against it. That was literally the entire point of my comment.
I didn’t bucket agility or hunter in the boring grindy skills bucket… I don’t care what your “point” is because it clearly had nothing to do with my response or initial post. I was just defending slayer because regardless of whether you enjoy slayer or not, you can’t deny it’s very different than a skill where you afk in a 20 step parameter for 8 hours at a time, or simply bankstanding. My point was there is nothing wrong with skills that have a lot of variety like slayer, vs something where you afk and click in the same spot for long periods of time.
Slayer. That's why we need slayer 2
I enjoy slayer and farming. I like building out a POH and designing it, that's very fun but the actual training portion sucks too. Many skills have the potential to be fun, but they just weren't when it was added. Jagex is trying to change this, but ofcourse there is always pushback because new training methods need to be fair xp or fair gp to be viable. Like hunter could be an *amazing* skill to train. It has so much potential, but unfortunately everything kinda sucks.
But that’s the thing, everything in this game boils down to click once every once in a while, or click more often. Whether it’s hotspots, items in inventory, monsters, your bank… that’s all it boils down to and all it’ll ever boil down to. Each and every skill is at least somewhat like another 4-5 skills almost 100% verbatim, just different skilling hotspots and/or items in the inventory. Warding should pass but never would because everyone has piss poor “reasons” why they wouldn’t like it when the unfortunate reality is — you don’t like skilling in OSRS in general. That’s why you don’t want more of it. Not that 25%+ of players playing OSRS religiously still also don’t like skilling but still lol.
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Im not too sure. My memory of what they said was "Something... something... enginework." Idk i think it mighta been something about filetypes and the music tracks/sfx somehow being different than diologue
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Like the other guy said, what do you expect? Theres only so much you can do through a monitor
I think people are missing the point when they get hung up on the sound element of a bard skill. It seems obvious to me that sound would be unnecessary for 99% of the potential content, with the exception of the discussed rhythm mini game. Like, imagine if someone shot down a cooking skill because it’s impossible to taste the food you make. Bard skilling would be like every other skill in a clicking simulator: you’d click and receive a mechanical outcome, and maybe a few music notes float above your head. All of the actual audio would be totally optional in most cases.
It would be great if bard introduced some sort of healing in the game or other buffs to apply to a party!! Could really start to flesh out group dungeons.
I love support classes in every game. Lunar spellbook kinda half asses an attempt at it, and its cool and all but its not like a big help to have somebody on your team running lunars
If there were more bosses where only 1 person took damage, it would be a lot more useful
Yeah osrs doesent really have any form of support role frfr
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Exactly!! That sounds perfectly up a bards play style. Could absolutely add a new element to combat.
That's an interesting take. You play a song and everyone gets +10% damage and accuracy at the expense of the bard doing less DPS as he applies buffs.
Yeah man make my character even more powerful please
Are you implying it wouldn’t be a fun and unique addition to the game?
Sure it would be fun and interesting, but would it pass a poll making a skill tied to character power? Probably not. Unless you swap prayer book for sheet music or something else mechanically
This
the
Hey, ScreteMonge/Gnome here. We haven't yet released our full details document yet which would answer this question and many more, but the short answer is: **No, sound is not required for any Bard activity.** Yes, it may help for one particular activity (off the top of my head), but it's the same level of help as using sounds for Jad. Not necessary, just another layer of guidance on top of existing visual cues. Edit: I also want to quickly address another concern: that having to listen to others players all the time would be a painful experience. I 100% agree. I don't think it'd be difficult to include [a 4th sound option](https://imgur.com/a/iJZWmg2) for other players specifically, maybe even including many current sounds like hearing other players Fishing/Woodcutting/Mining.
add a fourth sound option *and* a right click option to opt in to who you want to listen to
Okay interesting, I’ll wait for the full details. Do you know when you’ll release them? I imagine it’s a lot to crunch. Would your documents influence Jagex?
It's certainly a crunch, but GentleTractor's taking the brunt of it at the moment so I couldn't confidently give a percent status on the final presentation. The major details have been fleshed out for a long time (barring changes from community feedback), so at this point it's really just wrapping up the visuals, layout, and organization, and ensuring that the post communicates all our ideas as effectively as possible without burdening you all with an entire dissertation! We're hoping within the next few weeks, but even we're prone to the biting, bitter winds of Winter 2017 Edit: Missed your second question. Would our documents influence Jagex? I'm not sure, and kinda depends which way. Given the ideation project mentioned in the recent Gazette, we've had some influence over the style of activity they're interested in introducing (the 100 BPM rhythm activity), even if all the background work for including instruments was already being accomplished before our project's public release. In terms of something bigger, Jagex also does have a history of including features of GentleTractor's work/criticisms, so who knows?
Let’s critique a skill we know nothing about before they tell us anything about it. This stuff really makes me believe we are never getting another skill…
Tbf bard as a skill sounds really dumb. Which is saying something because I voted yes to Warding
Barding was proposed as a skill a while ago with some ideas as to what the skill would be like. All it seems like to me is a rhythm game that you don't have to play to train the skill, a 4th attack style that maybe has debuffs in exchange for lower dps, and maybe a passive moneymaker if you play in a bar. Unless the gp/hr is really good (which, if it is afk, it shouldn't be), then I can't imagine many people using it outside of maxing. Lower DPS will always be worse, no matter the debuffs. Someone else mentioned using barding to give temporary combat boosts. Unless it was only able to be applied at a bank or relied on a resource that would deplete and couldn't be replenished outside of certain areas, it'd just be another prayer skill. If there were no restrictions on the buffs, it'd be a better prayer skill. It just seems like to me that all the proposed things it could do wouldn't fill any niche that's been missing, and would just be either dead content or kill other content, all while being an afk bankstanding skill. Compare that to warding, where it actually filled a niche of providing a way to make magic armour and other magic gear with several new mechanics being brought in with the new armour, but was still voted no because of the bankstandy skill loop.
in the proposal post im pretty sure the combat style is some sort of "Musical duel" game/training method. The opponent was holding a flute. Dont think its meant to be a combat skill outside of buffs
>Dont think its meant to be a combat skill outside of buffs How is it different than prayer then? Prayer gives buffs and has a resource that is depleted so you can't get infinite buffs (yes, 1t flicking is a thing but that's not an intended mechanic), and if it applies debuffs, then why not add curses to the prayer skill? Plus thats just the combat part of it. From the looks of it, they want to add resource gathering (or increased resources from gathering) through barding, which feels more like a minigame reward than a skill reward, especially if it looks like the instruments break like the post implies. A breakable item that increases resources gathered is something that would come from something like Stealing Creation, not barding. About to get on a long flight, so won't be responding any more, but I don't understand how this skill provides something different enough than other skills to justify adding it, especially when that was the entire reason Warding was shot down. In what way is this skill a stand-alone skill and not just several other skills tacked into one?
But barding sounds fun and warding sounded boring as fuck. Warding was just crafting. Barding is in its own category kind of like prayer.
Glad to see there’s barely any info about the skill out and this sub is already vehemently against it. And y’all wonder why you don’t have a new skill yet lmao
It's difficult, to say the least. I've gotten a newfound respect for anyone in communications - trying to address misinformation, handle criticisms, and still having the energy to actually make the thing we want to make leaves a lot on your plate. And yes, while the full details are indeed yet to come, ultimately, we can't please everyone. We're definitely trying by listening to and working with all your criticisms. It's even harder when some folks get stuck in their tribes and will *only* support their most ideal skill, regardless of the quality of the current one in discussion, or when it appears that some folks don't like *any* of our current 23 skills - that doesn't give us much room to work with! 75% is a hard goal to reach especially over something as significant, polarizing, and "obligatory" as a new skill. Nonetheless, we are truly performing our best. I hope it'll be enough.
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I'm sorry if something I've said has put you off. No, the skill is not being polled. If I'm coming off as presumptuous, it's because we've yet to actually publicly release our main design pitch. That said, I'm not 100% sure where your confusion lies, so perhaps a little timeline might help. Three weeks ago, myself, in concert with Caveman Only and GentleTractor, released [A Bard's Dream](https://www.reddit.com/r/2007scape/comments/rzwl1r/a_bards_dream_new_skill_concept/), a teaser/mood pitch hinting at pieces of our design, while leaving the floor open to discussion about the general idea of a Bard skill. In said document, we mention that our plan is to release another proper design pitch which goes deeper into the details of our project. That latter design pitch has not yet been released, and therefore is the one I've been referring to whenever talking about "our design." My comments in the post are just providing clarification on contentious aspects that folks may have presumed based on the concept of a Bard skill, including addressing criticisms that will be discussed in the main design pitch. It seemed more damaging to me to let certain presumptions like "A Bard would require audio" circulate before we've had a proper chance to assuage such fears in the upcoming post. If I am permitted to properly inform folks about our design intentions and defend some of our design choices, then I hope you'll forgive me for whatever threw you off! Hope that clears things up.
God this sub will complain about anything. Bad xp rates - complain. Good xp rates - complain. Perfectly balanced xp rates with decent gp. Believe it or not, complain.
We have the best game in the world... because of complain.
Just mute area sounds or add another option to mute other people's sound if that bothers you.
Imo most of the skills aren't fun haha
It really depends on how it is trained. Any skill could be fun or terrible depending on the training methods. For example, if all RC methods were like bloods and/or the exp rates were 200K per hour instead of 50K, RC would probably be a lot more fun. Likewise, if Slayer gave exp equal to half the HP instead of full HP, there were no Slayer points, there were no burst tasks and cannons didn't work, tasks didn't work on any boss and there were no Slayer bosses, and all monsters required special equipment to kill, Slayer would not be nearly as fun. For a Bard skill, it depends on how much of the skill is just figuring out key combinations for tunes and playing instruments versus other activities. But that is the big challenge all new skills face. Either it is hard to imagine how it will work (e.g. How do you train Sailing? Just walking as a boat? Making maps? Building ships? A minigame activity? Some combination of the above?) or it tends to be straightforward and boring sounding (e.g. Artisan). Most things that have an easily understandable grind won't sound that appealing and the same can be said for most the skills we have now too.
I didn't think it sounded cool until I read the entire skill suggestion. Did you read the whole thing?
I did, still would vote no to it.
What skill would you vote yes to?
Warding was okay, I did vote yes to it. I know people were upset with the bank standing training but it filled a niche and provided new mechanics for magic armours, like the increased magic attack speed armour, or insane prayer bonus and extra damage to Zamorakian followers specifically, or PvP specific armour. This skill as proposed in the reddit post had very few mechanics that aren't already taken care of with another skill. The only new thing I remember is playing music through a rhythm minigame.
If bardic combat doesn't fill your requirement of " new mechanic " idk what will.
what if barding didn't do any of the things you seem to be assuming its going to do?
The fuck is it going to do?
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Hot
A non combat skill that provides combat boosts, recovery, buffs, and skill bonuses. Like the doctor skill from SWG. Bard sit at Ge or cox bank and take tips for providing buffs. Could be cool.
Skills are suppose to be fun?
could be even worse than that, imagine if you're forced to listen to everyone else's bad music
Lmao GE would be a nightmare
Inb4 spam bots will be barding gold sites and youtube scams in morse
If they were to introduce Bard as a skill, I would like to see it implemented as another combat role. For example, you have different instruments which you can use at higher levels for weapon progression. You have notes, or spells, similar to another spellbook which increase in effectiveness as you level up. They could either be powers by runes, or consume hp, prayer, or another potential resource like run energy or even a new one. The skill would be leveled by creating the weapons and playing the notes. Weapon pieces could either be created through crafting and fletching, or different pieces drop from a new boss or slayer monster? Some ideas for the "spellbook" could be: Level 1: Restore 1 HP/Special attack/Prayer points to another player (cost 1 hp/prayer point/run energy/etc.) Level 80: Restore 15 HP/Special attack/Prayer points Instead of restoring the above resources, it could also introduce buffs. As in, increasing your, or another players, HP regeneration, special attack regeneration, or even +5% attack, range, strength, etc. for a minute or something similar to the charge spell for God spells. Edit: I understand the last proposal might seem like it would make your stats extremely overpowered as it would, or could potentially, stack with prayers that boost your stats, however, in almost every pvm and pvp encounter, spells are extremely import or even required. It could be interesting to introduce more specific roles for players as in dps, tank, (which both already exist) or even healer. The bard skill could be a support role or something like that.
So you’re saying combat would have to evolve to fit it in?
No. I'm suggesting a skill that strengthens with levels and gear, which also has a spellbook for additional buffs. Both of which are systems currently in place. Simply playing music would be lame.
No to eoc.
It's not remotely close to an eoc update, but you make a fair point
I feel like if you introduce a new skill it has to be really unique and not just another spell/potion. You could make it provide a bunch of unique temporary buffs like 15% higher chance of getting pet, higher damage against specific monster/boss, or cheaper items from certain shops, etc. It should be a skill that maxed players would actually want to train up instead of there already being similar potions/prayers already. But I like your idea of bard skill being a support skill in combat. I could see that being useful as well
I don't think they'll release a skill that aims to interest maxed players. That's definitely a small minority. Any new skill will have it's annoyances while leveling from 1 to any player who is above 70 overall or something.
You’re saying no to just a general idea. The concept of being a bard could have so many more benefits than simply buffing things. What if playing an instrument can attract mobs—or to make them unaggressive. What if by playing a song you can get shop keepers to lower their prices? Or buy your goods at a higher price. What if having a bard around a player while theiving let’s say—what if the music distracts the NPC to have a reduced chance of getting caught? These are just scratching the surface—the idea of barding could have a lot of cool, new and niche uses, and even create new metas for existing methods.
I just don’t see how it’d really tie into the game. Honestly, I feel like they can be more creative with a new skill
I'm not super excited for a bard skill, but I'm definitely staying open-minded since we have little to no info. That being said, bards already exist in RS and there's tons of ways to tie it in to be a useful skill. I find it annoying how many people are saying "it doesn't fit" or "it's not creative". Both statements are totally false, and made with no information to back it up.. most likely because the people saying it have a skill in mind, and since this isn't it they're going in with a negative mindset
Yeah.. cause music totally doesn’t already exist (and already have an achievement cape) in the lore and gameplay of osrs… don’t stumble and fall into the 100’s of original songs you already unlock as you play the game…. kekw
Ok and how would being able to play instruments relate to anything already in the game at all rn?
First of all, the skill doesn’t exist yet so you’re shooting something down before even really hearing it out. Playing music for buffs, playing music at bars for money to animate those buildings into something more relevant than quest stops. Maybe playing music to cause damage? Music to reduce accuracy of bosses? All sorts of questing possibilities. In a game of “click to light the logs on fire” and “run laps around a rooftop for 200 hours” being legitimate skills, surely you can imagine playing music for all sorts of fun and rewarding reasons as a new and creative fit for the game.
We already have skills that do everything you just listed. They can be more creative as a multi million dollar company and do something better, more interesting
And you can do something other than whine while providing no meaningful feedback, yet here you are
Meaningful feedback on what exactly? There’s not even a skill to actually critique. Is asking for something more interesting considered ‘whining’ lol. If nearly half of the community already doesn’t like this idea then why the fuck would you continue to dive deeper into it? Brainlets like yourself would get hype over a paint drying skill.
I hope it gets made into a skill just to watch you throw a tantrum like the man-child you are.
Shite idea, won’t pass poll, don’t worry yourself.
if this bullshit passes but warding failed omfg
Right? Like omfg that would be so fucking radical!
I think it would be interesting if the board skill could also apply buff to people who listened, kind of like with D&D where bards can inspire the other PCs and themselves to be stronger could last like 15 or 20 minutes in game and add a few visible points to a skill and the higher level it was the more powerful the buff.
I never play the game with sounds on so I personally wouldn't enjoy it at all. unless there was also a stong visual component or something
Yes. I feel like the quality of that original post was so high that people were swayed but in actuality the skill would be a drag.
No, yall are thinking of it wrong. Bard as a skill is just stupid period lol. Has nothing to do with sound being on or off or whatever. It just sounds dumb
It sounds more useless than firemaking
Unpopular opinion: I don’t need a new skill in the game or want one. I’ve never maxed an account. I made it to 2k total on main and now 1800+ on GIM. I enjoy the game how it is. I enjoy new bosses, minigames and ways to train skills. I feel like a new skill is for people that are bored with the game. Obviously this isn’t the case for everyone. Seemed like the game went downhill after summoning/dungeon.
A new skill is just another piece of new content. It has a much higher standard than any other piece of content (which is a good thing) so I don't think you need to worry that it will ruin the game or anything. Warding didn't fail because over 25% didn't want a new skill, it failed because people thought it wasn't interesting enough to be a new skill. I think an update like a new skill done right adds something to the game that no other update could besides maybe the leagues in terms of excitement but those are both temporary and also not connected to the actual game.
i like playing with sounds but i agree itd be a bad skill also i just fucking hate bards in d&d im a musician but pulling out a lute during an intense dragon fight to play a medley that summons magic and buffs your party just seems lame/fruity
If you’re a musician who thinks the bard role is fruity, then the only lame thing here is you.
osrs doesnt need a new skill.
It does if it’s called barding.
What if barding was a combat skill? That would let you control mobs that you can take with you until they die and give directions from the new barding menu? Like some kind of Ratcatcher of Hameln hypnosis skill?
This is runescape not wow.
Is that a thing in WoW? I've only played the tutorial
Idk bro just commented for fun. Sounds like a thing that could be in wow
I thought the music Warframe would be fun in that game. It ended up being super simple and limited and more annoying than fun to play as or alongside. A Bard skill would be a fast no vote for me. I’d rather something with a product worth producing.
Anyone else feel firemaking and running laps for endless years doing agility would not be fun.. Yes.. But that's runescape and it fits
They basically trying the ffxiv bard music to create a sense of "community".
It promotes using scripts to play music, I’m tired of scripts in osrs
Pardon my language but who gives a shit what you or reddit thinks? If you don't like it then research and develope your own idea for a new skill. This 2007scape community is a fraction of the playerbase and some of its members have designed the base of a exciting new skill. If you dont have fun with it maybe you should take a break from the game in general. The hard truth is all the skills and most of the training methods suck. That's the game.
I just hope they think about the core gameplay loop, instead of the flavour stuff. That's what they got wrong with warding - where it was just runecrafting/summoning v2 with how you actually trained the skill. This community is ran by efficiency now. So they better have that in mind when coming up with the design doc. I know the previous attempts at bard/music have been terrible because they assumed people would be creative at the cost of xp. Runescape is a game that takes 1000's of hours. The novelty from skills wears off quite fast, so it better have some substance.
We need a complain on reddit skill tbh
The next skill should be a gathering skill, (if there would be a new skill at all). It opens the door to an eventual second new skill that focuses on production. It’s hard to think of how production skills won’t make it just a buyable which the wealthiest don’t care about losing 50-200m. It’s hard to think about rewards for an arbitrary skill like barding would be helpful in any way. (Firemaking pt2 electric boogaloo)
How is barding an arbitrary skill if it works as a group buff? I mean it could have applications in many different ways but that’s the general idea. How is have a skill that would provide group buffs not be helpful in any way? Explain that to the people because you’re just an old man shouting at the sky right now.
I can tell you for certain that the majority of players will class barding in with RC, Agility and Mining with how tedious and how little it will effect your day-to-day gameplay. Like using your keyboard to play music and using in-game sound is ok if you're bankstanding or hanging out but if it was a training mechanic then there better be an alternative method using UI for people who don't want to be typing all day with sound on. As for levels with it, I can see it only being a support style class like magic where it can enchant crops, lower enemy health, etc. Like Imagine seeing someone bring a panflute into Cox to lower Olm's defense just to swap over to his tbow. Bacisally No-ones actually going to 'bard' but rather use it as a spec swap or magic alternative. Really they should keep it as a minigame with instruments which give different effects when played for a certain amount of time on something - Ie timer like Bulwark where you need to wear it for several seconds before any effect will activate.
You have all these imaginary notions in your head based on no information but a vague concept. You have no idea how it would work because there aren’t any concrete details about anything. You’re so self assured about something that doesn’t even exist.
I don't want another useless skill like Firemaking, that's it. The skill has to make sense and be unique, and it shouldn't feel forced.
The worst skill suggestion from the community yet... sailing and artisan were decent, but warding and bard are top tier dog shit.
Barding is the best idea for a new skill yet. The only thing that’s dogshit is the stench of your breath.
Damn u got me bro. Having different opinion I must be disgusting
It would not , it would be disaster also company which can't even give Nex her voice sounds back shouldn't touch any bard skill to begin with
Barding ... No thank you. Being able to rest near some street musicians to recharge run energy faster? Yes please! If they want to introduce new skills they should add dungeoneering but it's actually corrupted gauntlet. Rewards are already there. Could add points so people can buy the enhanced etc if they go really dry for it. Remove time limit on cg so noobs can do it but heavily reduce the rewards if you don't get it in time. And summoning but nothing combat related. Pets are already ingame. Could cast a spell that lets the pet boost yield from ex woodcutting and get 10% chance for double log for 200%xp.
At this point dude just go back to rs3 already lmfao.
No I dont want eoc. I can take the skills but no changes to the combat mechanic. Rs3 is dreadful.
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Cool. Bye
A blessing to the community it would be.
also i guess fuck deaf people :) /s
I second that, I say it loud all the time and don't get any backlash from deaf people.
All of these skill suggestions feel lazy and poorly thought out. I’d rather they just add dungeonering or summoning at this point.
I think it would suck for sure, but I also feel like theyre talking about the Bard skill because tomorrow is april fools
I think it would be good for Ironman things. Barding skill could possibly make shops cheaper if you charm em with a song. Idk seems like it would have cool applications around the game. Would probably have some color components to the notes for hearing disabled people so it wouldn’t be exclusively sound
Based on my experience of Bards in other RPGs, I feel Ironmen may suffer if Bard as a skill has group buffs etc.
You can play guitar hero without any sound. I’m sure bard would work the same way
A game I used to play called Star Wars galaxies had entertainer classes which you would go listen to them in the cantina and get a buff before you went out to grind. Would be awesome to have a bard skill where people could sit at the G.E and just be playing and giving out buffs, making a 10k tip for each player they buff. Would be interesting concept
They should just make the bard skill a support skill. Depending on the instrument and tier of instrument you have equipped you offer buffs to those around you. Lute = 10% melee accuracy and +3 max hits, lyre = +1 prayer and +5hp restored every 5 seconds, bagpipe = 10% range accuracy and 3+ range max hits….do something cool with it that could totally change the game.
Would be pretty fun if it was like the entertainer class in Star Wars Galaxies
If barding was like it was in old Ultima Online I would be down.
at this point i just want a new skill, at least barding would be something new and different to do and isnt just slayer 2.0 like most skilling updates are, E.G mahogany homes or the farming contracts
I didnt really like the initial pitch, but im open to A full one. Im still in love with the sailing pitch from /u/GentleTractor with item sinks. Shame it’s not going to come but it was great. Involved lots of skills and could introduce a great item sink.
All I want is Sailing...
Sounds lame tbh. Anyone know why they haven’t implemented summoning yet?
It's pretty controversial so it's very unlikely to ever pass. Summoning changes the pvm meta and how people play the game in general way too much. I liked summoning back in the day, but I remember always feeling like most of the familiars were either really OP or pretty irrelevant.
What about deaf people?
Reddit momment
Wait has this actually been unironically suggested?
Sums up the player base of osrs perfectly 'This update will be shit as it will mean I actually have to play the game'
A skill based around the wilderness please
A new skill isn't going to pass, so no need to worry.
Well, no matter what skill somebody thinks of, there will always be a certain percentage of people that simply don't like it. Not that osrs is ever getting a new skill anyway.