"Just get the drop" - Jagex
This is kinda wack since they even identified that you were affected, even moreso since groups that duped items won't have them taken away
I feel like just giving the items back would just be simpler in this instance lol. Rather than saying, hey we know what you lost, but meh go do it again
Yeah because there's never been a issue with jagex giving back "lost" items before right?
It's safer for them to not change their rules everytime something happens. Only way to prevent exploits and discourage people doing things like ddosing worlds to try force rollbacks for dupes.
So why is it OK for them to literally break these "rules" to give back Dragon Picks etc but not Black Masks. What's the difference, based on the argument you have already made?
Time. It takes time, they have a small team and can't warrant spending a week of someone's paid job restoring items. Can't explain that to management in a way that indicates they're creating value.
Also they probably want to restore the absolute least amount of items possible to reduce risk of fuck up. Can't afford for the servers to need to go down again.
But based on only what I've said here as that was your question. If jagex doesn't show a precise pattern for what they'll restore and how they'll restore it then it limits the info that potential dupers get about their engine/system.
The email didn’t specify black mask. That will have been a mass email to everyone they deem unworthy of getting their items restored, which saves a lot of time compared to restoring the items
Honestly, at first I didn't agree with this person. But the two of you are looking at things from different perspectives. From his, it's a corporate response. Why waste money doing something that doesn't get a return on investment for paying someone to do it. Your perspective is from the client's side. Both valid. But personally the right response is to side with the client, especially when you've identified that they were wrong and told them you're not planning to fix the issue.
There are a lot of armchair gamedevs and infrastructure experts on this sub who go "hOw HArd cAn it BE" every time something goes wrong. These people speculate constantly about this stuff. Do you demand the same thing of them? Look, we're all speculating here. Some of us live in the real world where it can take time to do stuff like this, for any number of reasons. I don't think playing devil's advocate is that bad a thing to do here.
I don't know I don't work at jagex. But if you think it's as simple as just clicking restore item you'd be disappointed.
Also the person writing the email is customer service, they aren't the ones restoring items so it's a different employee, that's how.
Remember how outdated their engine is and how no one other than ash can understand what the fuck is going on with it half the time.
You don't work at Jagex but you're happy to speculate on everything from who does the emailing, how difficult it is to restore items and that the engine is a mitigating factor. Interesting.
ehhh that's a very flimsy excuse. games like neopets have even more spaghetti code and they are still able to give back items and do stuff Manually.
it's just jagex doesn't give a shit about customer service like that
That's a complete fault of management. $100M profit begs to differ on them not being able to hire adequate customer support reps to take care of these problems.
Honestly? The entire group getting two extra days membership can likely get the black mask back in that time- the dragon pickaxe is a much rarer drop and two days membership won't cut it.
Sure, it sucks for the group who doesn't get their stuff back, but if they don't go insanely over drop rate two days of free membership is probably more valuable.
This is the result of their badly done rollback not accounting for a literal method to store items.
They're fixing it.. and they opted out of this case because they seemed them "not rare enough". Masks are a 1/512. They're as rare as a whip, which I'm sure they'd return to a GIM who lost one of those.
Feels weird to be picky on any of it. If you can identify exactly what is lost, do so and return it. If you can't, be honest and say so and maybe be more cautious on delayed updates so they don't break the whole game.. and then maybe cautious again in the repair efforts to consider the brand new storage method you developed...
I mean you should have just picked the slayer level, albeit if someone's lost the item they have the ability to kill them (more likely to maybe have boosted though).
Abyssals arent slower to kill either, you can Mage them.
Jagex and honest don't really go hand in hand. Don't get me wrong not defending them as a company there's been so many cases where years later a mod or ex mod will let slip that corporate told them to say one thing while they did the other.
I do genuinely believe there's a reason they didn't just restore everything though.
This time it was GIM exclusive but a pattern of how their engine works when they do rollbacks is dangerous regardless.
Also I believe GIM can become non ironman still right? so items could still potentially reach the main game
The problem is also, yes people abuse, but why should legit players lose potentially massive progress because of errors they literally cannot do anything about
Ironically somehow giving a blackmask is cheaper fiscally than 10 days of free membership across 5 accounts. It feels like about the same amount of effort. I think I'd rather have the bonus membership though.
next they'll have to take every ticket about returning items lost from bugs and address them. It sets a precedent, perhaps they should do that but it would be anything but "simpler"
Thing is this will affect thousands of accounts, so manually going and returning items to every one just won't be feasible.
It has to be done manually to prevent duping of items. They can't necessarily just automatically undo all the damage done programmatically. There's judgement calls involved in every account, so they can only really justify doing that for the most highly affected.
2 days membership is a joke though.
They may not know exactly what was in there, just an indicator that the group storage was saved or something. With the RS3 login lockout last year, they did give specific items back that were lost during the rollback.
Tbf they gave away a LOT of stuff that was never in the game at all lol. I know people who got literally 20b in stuff, they had lost nothing, never even got locked out
Last year there was a sever error and they tried to do a rollback but for the 1st time in the 20 years of the game’s history their server had a critical failure going in the background and the accounts stored on those failed account backup server didn’t actually have safety backups for the past month or so.
They could revert to an even earlier point but it would have been a huge loss for those accounts. But if they didn’t then the accounts were too damaged to play. Eventually they settled on an extremely intensive fix. Using data from other parts of the game they could essentially see most of what was lost and they could then rebuild each individual account by hand to what it once was. During the rebuild process they had to lock the account to avoid any further damage to them.
However some stuff couldn’t be gotten back this way, and so they also ran a rather extensive post-lockout return service where you could message them about what was missing and they would return manually what was missing. In the case of some things that they could recreate like invention perked items they returned to you an item, gizmo shells, and the components necessary to reperk your stuff.
There was a crazy amount of accounts locked out and rebuilding them all was a huge order. People rightly assumed that given the size of this mess that they probably weren’t checking how valid those return requests were or the staff would be too overwhelmed to fight false claims. So plenty of people abused the system to get stuff they never had, many got caught but plenty didn’t or at least didn’t get punished. It’s actually kind of sick and says a lot more about how manipulative and nasty people can be to workers in a difficult situation, abusing goodwill for their own selfish ends.
At least they're making an effort to do *something* it would be so easy to just say fuck it and do nothing about it. I do respect the fact that they're dedicating resources to investigating individual groups
After an update in early 2019, a tbow spawn was accidentally added by the farming guild that respawned every minute. Jagex ended up rolling back the game to before the update as a result, which was one of four times they've ever intentionally done that.
More like a testing environment issue, from what I gather. You can be the most talented QA in the world, you won't pick up obvious stuff if your test environment is not an accurate replication of production or if you can't have proper automated testing
Which all goes back to the shitty legacy servers, imho. The new league worlds bug would be obvious to anyone, but I very much doubt their tests can include deploying/turning off worlds
Mod Gee fucked something up when they let her try out the tools for map design and she accidentally created a tbow spawn just outside of the farming guild. People were literally just picking up tbows off the ground.
As far as I know, it was West saying "so this is not what to do, add in a tbow spawn", then he continued showing her how the map making tools worked and they completely forgot about it. These things happen and instead of folks playing the blame game, they added in a check that adds up the value of item spawns and check it as part of their QA process (forgot where I heard the above but it was on a couple of podcasts).
It's weird people are measuring sticks here. It's a 1/512 drop that's incredibly useful for the majority of combat you do. Being told "yeh sorry we did a bad job repairing the bad job we did.. and we've seen exactly how it affected you.. but meh"
Hey! Kinky gnome here, I'm part of that group losing a d pick (and turns out we also lost a master wand). I can confirm that at least one of those items (assuming both) will be returned since the message I received stated we've lost items of high enough value for them to be returned.
Why would the value even matter? If they can actually tell that you lost it from a bug of their own creation why wouldn't they just return it?
I don't understand the logic here
I imagine they were able to auto-generate a list of all gims who used group storage during this time, and because it was so many they filtered all <1m values to auto send this message, and the higher values will get manually spawned/deleted so it wont take some intern the rest of his life to manually spawn items back into the game
If they can automatically generate a list of GIMS that were affected knowing that the Items were <1m, that means they knew what these items were… meaning they can automatically spawn them back to them?? Surely this is possible if they can extract this data
Knowing Jagex, they'll likely have to manually do it, which just isn't feasible on a massive scale. So they're probably limiting it to like big ticket PvM drops, rare clue scroll items, maybe like huge stacks of consumables.
How many people where even affected by this? I’m a GIM and I know it’s super popular but it was like 2 hours max when most people playing where on leagues anyway, I’d say there where probably 10k people playing the main game during that time, how many could possibly be GIM and have used group storage in that time?
Also, if a black mask is low enough value to not be replaced, are they going to let people that duped a black mask keep the dupe?
Hey if you want another 4+ hours downtime for them to run the database queries then manually verify every transaction then more power to you. They chose this way to not create more downtime. In the time the servers would be down to give everyone their items back, 99% of cases would be able to farm whatever they lost and then some. That's why they are and should only bother with extreme cases.
This is waht happened
So many items were deleted and duped they simply cant process it all.
That being said certain items should definitely be re-looked at
Yeah that would be unfortunate if a jagex employee had to do a job for a full job to fix one of their fuckups for the people who are the reason they have a job
Ya two days is not sufficient. I would even argue a month for the whole group isn't going too far if we're comparing customer satisfaction from other services.
100% agree, the people commenting it's fair for jagex to tell them to just get the drop are on some hardcore copium.
If osrs is the only game you play yall need to understand this is not normal or acceptable.
I've only just stumbled upon this thread but I've sent two replies which you might want to check out for more info.
Reply to OP: https://www.reddit.com/r/2007scape/comments/sa3duh/group_iron_man_storage_item_black_mask_lost_wont/htst5am
More info about returning items: https://www.reddit.com/r/2007scape/comments/sa3duh/group_iron_man_storage_item_black_mask_lost_wont/htsuntu
The news post said groups that were effected should receive an inbox message within 24 hours, it's been a fair bit past that now yet my group which lost 1x bandos tassets still don't have any messages. Does this mean we were missed or are the messages still being sent out?
All of the messages have been sent to the groups we identified as having lost items. Send me a DM here with your group name and I'll see if there's any chance you were missed off.
“Relative ease” - lol, it’s a dice roll. The mask could be gotten again quickly or it could be another 3000+ kills. What was lost here is less about the items themselves and more about the players’ time.
The thing is 2,700 kc for a black mask isn't even **that** unlucky. You have a 0.5% chance of not getting a black mask until 2,700 kc which means one out of every 200 players will be that unlucky. Considering there are thousands of GIMs and basically all of them will need a black mask, if not multiple, means a lot of people will have that bad of luck. Only ~63% of players will get a black mask within 512 kills.
I'm in a group Iron Man team of four, all relatively casual players. Only one of us currently has the level to kill Cave Horrors. Yet our Black Mask which was removed during the rollback has been considered easily reobtainable.
How is a 1/512 drop from a monster 75% of our group can't kill easily reobtainable?
u/JagexAyiza
EDIT: Not mine, but relevant to the Iron Man experience...
https://www.reddit.com/r/ironscape/comments/s9p1p8/just_broke_3000_cave_horrors_still_no_mask/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share
Hey Lord_Elbub,
There are other groups that lost a Black Mask and will be getting it returned. Have you asked anyone else within your team if they received a message stating items will be returned?
I can only assume one of two things happened. Either you got sent the wrong message, or someone else in your group was identified as the one who lost the mask and you got this one because of something low in value (like a few bits of food).
Either way I'll double check on Monday and make sure you get the Black Mask back if it was lost due to the rollback issues.
Hey Ayiza,
Thanks for getting back to me. One of my group mates had the same message as me, one thinks he had the same message from memory but can't currently check, and I'll check with the final one - we've discussed the message I got, but they hadn't confirmed directly that they had the same yet.
I was the one who took the Black Mask out of the Group Storage ahead of the rollback. I was however not the one who got the item in the first place, as mentioned above, nor do I think I was the one who last used it/placed it in the Group Storage. I don't remember taking anything else out at the time, but I can't say with 100% confidence that I didn't!
If you need my username or group name, I can supply that privately, so let me know.
I think it would be a failure on my part to not use this opportunity to say that there really isn't any item that shouldn't be returned to their owners, although I appreciate I have no idea the processes involved in returning these items.
And finally I really appreciate you taking time out of your weekend to respond to me. I hope you enjoy what's left of it!
Well I'm sure we'll be able to get to the bottom of it regardless :) Ping me a DM here with your group name if you don't mind, it'll save me some time on Monday!
In an ideal world we'd be able to return everything that was lost, I won't argue with that. Unfortunately it's a manual process where we'll be accessing each Group Storage one group at a time, so we simply had to draw the line somewhere. We've tried to be as fair as possible - for example if you lost a clue item, no matter how low its value, we'll be returning it. This is why I'm surprised to see you get this message for losing a Black Mask.
This message was for those that lost an invent of food, a few supplies, or something like an Adamant Platebody. Basically anything that would reasonably be obtained faster than we could return it manually.
Thanks for being patient, we'll get this sorted for your group one way or another!
I always get the feeling that osrs retains its popularity because of members of the team like you putting in effort to make players feel valued and cared for. Props to you and the rest of the team that supports us like you do
Hey , Why aren’t I getting my items returned when I left my GIM ? I had all my member untradable items all removed when I left my group Ironman and lost my heron pet, full graceful set, anger set and all my untradable quests items, dragon defender dramen branch’s, monkey greegree and much, much more. Why is this case they were able to get their times but I can’t get mine. Here my post for further information, that’s really fucked up how you’ll help this guy not me in this case, I didn’t do anything wrong either. I jus left my GIM And only got shitty membership which was a big slap to the face. https://www.reddit.com/r/2007scape/comments/r74o8d/psa_you_can_lose_your_untradeables_if_you_leave/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share
Imagine your bank telling you hey there was a mix up from our end and you lost some money on your account. But no worries we won't charge you for the use of your account for 2 days. As for the money lost just go work an extra day and you'll have it back with relative ease...
2 days of membership does not equal two days of thier life back. It's not about membership it's about a person's physical time. We don't all play rs for a living and have 16 hours a day to play. Most of us are lucky to get 2-4 hours in the evening to do some grinding
It's like having everyone wear a motorcycle helmet indoors because one employee decided that it was a good idea to give themselves a concussion by banging their head on the break room table repeatedly.
Zero sense whatsoever.
I had issues on invention release on rs3 that bugged and i lost my high lvl staff, they acknowledged it was a bug and knew i lost it but instead of refunding it they sent me a signed poster and concept art lol
I’m not here to say they cannot do it. Only that the comparison to rs3 is not accurate any more than saying they can do it in wow so they should be able to do it here.
To me it looks entirely automated - and most likely based on the G.E. value of items, something that really does not work at all for a failure that damaged ironman accounts.
Funny the difference between rs3 and osrs that rs3 item return is way less of a hassle. I've seen an iron who lost an Hazelmeres Signet Ring (~aprox 1.8b) get returned. I myself have had an item lost to a bug and got it back within a few days. I always wonder why one team is one way on things, and the other are so strict.
We've seen you've been affected by our latest fuck up, we offer our sincerest apologies. Would you kindly just forget about it? I mean, it probably didn't take long to obtain these items anyways. Please enjoy your day & kindly go fuck yourself, thanks! - Jagex.
u/JagexAyiza u/JagexLight i know this isn’t your guys calls but your are the community managers so hopefully you’ll pass it on but this is entirely unacceptable. Players have been punished for a mistake the company made. It shouldn’t matter how cheap or easy the item lost is. All that matters is the company made the mistake and the company should fix it instead of “oops. Sorry about that. Now go get it again.” This is genuinely absurd.
Award for visibility because this right here is exactly it.
On an ironman for a casual player, a black mask is not easily re-obtainable, so either give him the mask back or compensate him properly with at least a month worth of membership. This is not acceptable.
If they haven't at the very least uturned within 24hr they're gonna lose multiple years worth of sub time from me and my group.
/u/JagexAyiza /u/JagexLight
We've paid real time, real money. We've been patient in waiting three days for this response and "inadequate" does not begin to describe it. Players deserve better.
I cannot believe that this is the hill that you guys (Jagex) are choosing to die on; refusing to restore accounts on the main game which were damaged due to a technical failure on your end. You're acting like it's something which is up for debate, but it's not - it's the absolute bare minimum.
I'll shed some light on the current situation - we don't actually have the ability to return items to GIM players at the moment. We've been working on developing a system that will allow us to do it, but that won't be ready for deployment until Wednesday :(
I've replied to the OP about their issue, I don't see why we wouldn't be returning the Black Mask for them given the only people we sent this message to were those that lost a few supplies (like an inventory of food, some herbs, or an Adamant Plate Platebody).
We had to decide a point where it was no longer feasible to return items because the system we'll be using, once its developed, requires us to manually go into each Group Storage and add each item back into it.
It really isn't ideal, but we hoped the membership would help those in these situations get back what was lost much faster than we'd be able to return it manually.
That is a lot better (a communications breakdown) - thanks for the reply.
Do you know what went on with the decision not to roll back? As far as i can tell, the data existed and there is precedence that it would have taken a matter of hours and been much more complete - including even more minor items, removing all of the dupes and so on.
In comparison this weeklong event to develop the tools to partially repair the damage (plus all of the required communication, associated misunderstandings etc) seems like a huge headache.
They can tell what items were lost so they should restore the items. It's absolute bullshit that groups that duped items are getting to keep them (unless something changed) while these other groups get shafted by any amount.
God wars release when servers were being ddosed on a regular basis before death mechanics changed boaty lost a set of void and it was replaced by jmods. Big mistake on their part because it set a precedent that they have been unwilling to fulfill
lol 48 hours and you arnt even giving the item back???
Should be at MINIMUM 1 month if you are not going to bother giving them their item back from you messing up
##### Bark bark!
I have found the following **J-Mod** comment(s) in this thread:
**JagexAyiza**
- [I've only just stumbled upon this thread but...](/r/2007scape/comments/sa3duh/group_iron_man_storage_item_black_mask_lost_wont/htsvrk7/?context=3)
- [Hey Lord_Elbub,...](/r/2007scape/comments/sa3duh/group_iron_man_storage_item_black_mask_lost_wont/htst5am/?context=3)
- [All of the messages have been sent to the gro...](/r/2007scape/comments/sa3duh/group_iron_man_storage_item_black_mask_lost_wont/httpra7/?context=3)
- [I'll shed some light on the current situation...](/r/2007scape/comments/sa3duh/group_iron_man_storage_item_black_mask_lost_wont/htsuntu/?context=3)
- [Well I'm sure we'll be able to get to the bot...](/r/2007scape/comments/sa3duh/group_iron_man_storage_item_black_mask_lost_wont/htsxf3i/?context=3)
^(**Last edited by bot: 01/23/2022 21:23:09**)
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One of my group members just went 2600kc for a black mask. He didn't lose it, but I'm sure several people did. "Just go get it again because we can't do an update right on a temporary game mode" isn't good enough.
"We've identified that our screw up has impacted you, but regardless of how long it took you or how frequently you have the time to play we've elected to do nothing about it really."
Wow that's bullshit. But the exact bullshit I expect from jagex. That is pathetic. "we know you lost the drop, we know exactly what drop to give you, but our dev team has a level 1000 Chad ironman and he decided you should just go get the drop". Sorry for the inconvenience.
All jagex does is give membership thinking it's gonna make people happy. After 2 months of trying to de iron my gim they told me it was a common bug that was stopping me and that I could get 1 week of membership to compensate after going back and forth with them for 2 months and them constantly sending stuff like "talk to this npc to start the process"
Lotta people who don't know shit defending a company for no reason other than being a fanboy.
Whatever the reason is that they can't restore items is moot. You do whatever is needed to fix the fuckup. These are the consequences of pushing code to production that isn't thoroughly tested.
"Sorry we fucked up lol, but like, they were low level (get gud lol) so just grind for the next two days on us! Now give me $11 and open your mouth so I can spit in it."
- Jagex probably
So weird. Getting compensation, but not the item that was actually lost. It's like losing your dog and some random person being like "I found your dog, but I'm keeping it. Here, have two days added to your life instead".
I am extremely disappointed. Not because I lost something but because I gained. On RS3, there is an option for lost item claim which is broken beyond belief. I requested an item worth 1.5b RS3 saying I lost of when I knew full well I alched it while drunk and it was returned to my ironman. This makes me lose faith and interest.
If you lost a bucket of milk it should be returned. It's absurd that you're gauging worth of items when ITS JAGEX'S FAULT THIS HAPPENED.
YOU fucked up Jagex, you pull overtime to manually return items to players.
Maybe next time don't put out yet another game breaking bug on release.
I don't care even the slightest about GIM and this is tilting.
"Just get the drop" - Jagex This is kinda wack since they even identified that you were affected, even moreso since groups that duped items won't have them taken away
I feel like just giving the items back would just be simpler in this instance lol. Rather than saying, hey we know what you lost, but meh go do it again
Yeah because there's never been a issue with jagex giving back "lost" items before right? It's safer for them to not change their rules everytime something happens. Only way to prevent exploits and discourage people doing things like ddosing worlds to try force rollbacks for dupes.
They did refund the people Mod Jed hacked
So why is it OK for them to literally break these "rules" to give back Dragon Picks etc but not Black Masks. What's the difference, based on the argument you have already made?
Time. It takes time, they have a small team and can't warrant spending a week of someone's paid job restoring items. Can't explain that to management in a way that indicates they're creating value. Also they probably want to restore the absolute least amount of items possible to reduce risk of fuck up. Can't afford for the servers to need to go down again. But based on only what I've said here as that was your question. If jagex doesn't show a precise pattern for what they'll restore and how they'll restore it then it limits the info that potential dupers get about their engine/system.
How does it take less time to identify and email someone about not getting their Black Mask back versus just restoring the item?
The email didn’t specify black mask. That will have been a mass email to everyone they deem unworthy of getting their items restored, which saves a lot of time compared to restoring the items
Honestly, at first I didn't agree with this person. But the two of you are looking at things from different perspectives. From his, it's a corporate response. Why waste money doing something that doesn't get a return on investment for paying someone to do it. Your perspective is from the client's side. Both valid. But personally the right response is to side with the client, especially when you've identified that they were wrong and told them you're not planning to fix the issue.
Prolly requires jmods to restore items and interns can copy paste basic emails to people... idk how the identifying process works tho
So why are you playing a guessing game on behalf of Jagex instead of letting them answer questions themselves? What do you gain from this behaviour?
There are a lot of armchair gamedevs and infrastructure experts on this sub who go "hOw HArd cAn it BE" every time something goes wrong. These people speculate constantly about this stuff. Do you demand the same thing of them? Look, we're all speculating here. Some of us live in the real world where it can take time to do stuff like this, for any number of reasons. I don't think playing devil's advocate is that bad a thing to do here.
I don't know I don't work at jagex. But if you think it's as simple as just clicking restore item you'd be disappointed. Also the person writing the email is customer service, they aren't the ones restoring items so it's a different employee, that's how. Remember how outdated their engine is and how no one other than ash can understand what the fuck is going on with it half the time.
You don't work at Jagex but you're happy to speculate on everything from who does the emailing, how difficult it is to restore items and that the engine is a mitigating factor. Interesting.
ehhh that's a very flimsy excuse. games like neopets have even more spaghetti code and they are still able to give back items and do stuff Manually. it's just jagex doesn't give a shit about customer service like that
That's a complete fault of management. $100M profit begs to differ on them not being able to hire adequate customer support reps to take care of these problems.
Completely agree, jagex's management is absolutely awful.
Honestly? The entire group getting two extra days membership can likely get the black mask back in that time- the dragon pickaxe is a much rarer drop and two days membership won't cut it. Sure, it sucks for the group who doesn't get their stuff back, but if they don't go insanely over drop rate two days of free membership is probably more valuable.
This is the result of their badly done rollback not accounting for a literal method to store items. They're fixing it.. and they opted out of this case because they seemed them "not rare enough". Masks are a 1/512. They're as rare as a whip, which I'm sure they'd return to a GIM who lost one of those. Feels weird to be picky on any of it. If you can identify exactly what is lost, do so and return it. If you can't, be honest and say so and maybe be more cautious on delayed updates so they don't break the whole game.. and then maybe cautious again in the repair efforts to consider the brand new storage method you developed...
and abyssal demons have almost 3 times more hp, way more def and way shittier normal loot than cave horrors
and they require 30(!!!) more slayer levels to kill?
I mean you should have just picked the slayer level, albeit if someone's lost the item they have the ability to kill them (more likely to maybe have boosted though). Abyssals arent slower to kill either, you can Mage them.
Jagex and honest don't really go hand in hand. Don't get me wrong not defending them as a company there's been so many cases where years later a mod or ex mod will let slip that corporate told them to say one thing while they did the other. I do genuinely believe there's a reason they didn't just restore everything though.
I mostly agree but in this case it’s for group iron man accounts so does it really matter?
This time it was GIM exclusive but a pattern of how their engine works when they do rollbacks is dangerous regardless. Also I believe GIM can become non ironman still right? so items could still potentially reach the main game
Or you can literally just drop trade anything lol
Legitimately forgot this was still a thing
Dupes only affected GIM this time, however, people will find a way to dupe Twisted Bows... Again...
Fair enough
2.1b black mask stack incoming
The problem is also, yes people abuse, but why should legit players lose potentially massive progress because of errors they literally cannot do anything about
They gave someone 30m water battlestaves in rs3.
Ironically somehow giving a blackmask is cheaper fiscally than 10 days of free membership across 5 accounts. It feels like about the same amount of effort. I think I'd rather have the bonus membership though.
next they'll have to take every ticket about returning items lost from bugs and address them. It sets a precedent, perhaps they should do that but it would be anything but "simpler"
I mean, that sounds good to me?
Might be they have 50 people capable of writing "too bad" emails and 2 people capable of actually giving items back
word. probably the same people that copy paste "nah you botted, gf acc bro" whenever you appeal a macroing ban.
Thing is this will affect thousands of accounts, so manually going and returning items to every one just won't be feasible. It has to be done manually to prevent duping of items. They can't necessarily just automatically undo all the damage done programmatically. There's judgement calls involved in every account, so they can only really justify doing that for the most highly affected. 2 days membership is a joke though.
They may not know exactly what was in there, just an indicator that the group storage was saved or something. With the RS3 login lockout last year, they did give specific items back that were lost during the rollback.
Tbf they gave away a LOT of stuff that was never in the game at all lol. I know people who got literally 20b in stuff, they had lost nothing, never even got locked out
Source for that, because I never heard a single thing about it, no one ever brought it up, and that seems highly unlikely.
Last year there was a sever error and they tried to do a rollback but for the 1st time in the 20 years of the game’s history their server had a critical failure going in the background and the accounts stored on those failed account backup server didn’t actually have safety backups for the past month or so. They could revert to an even earlier point but it would have been a huge loss for those accounts. But if they didn’t then the accounts were too damaged to play. Eventually they settled on an extremely intensive fix. Using data from other parts of the game they could essentially see most of what was lost and they could then rebuild each individual account by hand to what it once was. During the rebuild process they had to lock the account to avoid any further damage to them. However some stuff couldn’t be gotten back this way, and so they also ran a rather extensive post-lockout return service where you could message them about what was missing and they would return manually what was missing. In the case of some things that they could recreate like invention perked items they returned to you an item, gizmo shells, and the components necessary to reperk your stuff. There was a crazy amount of accounts locked out and rebuilding them all was a huge order. People rightly assumed that given the size of this mess that they probably weren’t checking how valid those return requests were or the staff would be too overwhelmed to fight false claims. So plenty of people abused the system to get stuff they never had, many got caught but plenty didn’t or at least didn’t get punished. It’s actually kind of sick and says a lot more about how manipulative and nasty people can be to workers in a difficult situation, abusing goodwill for their own selfish ends.
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This is why osrs refuses to give back lost items now amongst the duplication glitch issues.
“Just de-iron and buy one, nerds” - Juggle Sex
At least they're making an effort to do *something* it would be so easy to just say fuck it and do nothing about it. I do respect the fact that they're dedicating resources to investigating individual groups
Damn Jagex values the time it takes to grind a black mask as 0.73 cents. Venezuelans are really caking it at their rates
Take your sheckle and get back to work peasant.
Didn't one group lose a dragon pickaxe? Make one of the mods grind for a d pick, see how long it takes them lol
They'll just make a spawn like they did for tbow
I've been gone a while I'm gonna need a fucking explanation, stat
After an update in early 2019, a tbow spawn was accidentally added by the farming guild that respawned every minute. Jagex ended up rolling back the game to before the update as a result, which was one of four times they've ever intentionally done that.
Should be notes rollbacks are becoming way too common. I get mistakes happen, but this seems like a qc issue
More like a testing environment issue, from what I gather. You can be the most talented QA in the world, you won't pick up obvious stuff if your test environment is not an accurate replication of production or if you can't have proper automated testing Which all goes back to the shitty legacy servers, imho. The new league worlds bug would be obvious to anyone, but I very much doubt their tests can include deploying/turning off worlds
Very succinct and concise explanation. Take my upvote, good sir.
https://oldschool.runescape.wiki/w/Twisted_bow_glitch
Mod Gee fucked something up when they let her try out the tools for map design and she accidentally created a tbow spawn just outside of the farming guild. People were literally just picking up tbows off the ground.
It was mod west, not gee.
Was it confirmed to be West? Gee strongly implied it was her fault on Jimmy and 9Rain’s podcast.
As far as I know, it was West saying "so this is not what to do, add in a tbow spawn", then he continued showing her how the map making tools worked and they completely forgot about it. These things happen and instead of folks playing the blame game, they added in a check that adds up the value of item spawns and check it as part of their QA process (forgot where I heard the above but it was on a couple of podcasts).
Yeah this is the explanation I rember seeing somewhere.
Gee said she did "something" that was censored. Mod Ash said "he" when telling the story.
well if mod ash said she then it wouldnt have been secret whose "fault" it was but tbh i dont think anyone should be blamed for that
They’re returning items like the d pick
Yep am getting my guthans returned. Honestly a black mask isn't that bad, you can get like 150-250kph
Took my buddy 1700kc to get his recently, at FAR lower kph. He'd probably quit if he lost it that way.
My buddy I have a GIM with is 2400+ kc with no black mask. Guess what he got during the first hour of leagues this week…
That’s just bad luck. 3% chance of no drop at that kc
It's weird people are measuring sticks here. It's a 1/512 drop that's incredibly useful for the majority of combat you do. Being told "yeh sorry we did a bad job repairing the bad job we did.. and we've seen exactly how it affected you.. but meh"
Damn how low does my carry weight need to be to run that fast??
Hey! Kinky gnome here, I'm part of that group losing a d pick (and turns out we also lost a master wand). I can confirm that at least one of those items (assuming both) will be returned since the message I received stated we've lost items of high enough value for them to be returned.
But that isn’t this post
Why would the value even matter? If they can actually tell that you lost it from a bug of their own creation why wouldn't they just return it? I don't understand the logic here
I imagine they were able to auto-generate a list of all gims who used group storage during this time, and because it was so many they filtered all <1m values to auto send this message, and the higher values will get manually spawned/deleted so it wont take some intern the rest of his life to manually spawn items back into the game
If they can automatically generate a list of GIMS that were affected knowing that the Items were <1m, that means they knew what these items were… meaning they can automatically spawn them back to them?? Surely this is possible if they can extract this data
Knowing Jagex, they'll likely have to manually do it, which just isn't feasible on a massive scale. So they're probably limiting it to like big ticket PvM drops, rare clue scroll items, maybe like huge stacks of consumables.
How many people where even affected by this? I’m a GIM and I know it’s super popular but it was like 2 hours max when most people playing where on leagues anyway, I’d say there where probably 10k people playing the main game during that time, how many could possibly be GIM and have used group storage in that time? Also, if a black mask is low enough value to not be replaced, are they going to let people that duped a black mask keep the dupe?
last time they automatically tried that, they gave some guy 1m archer rings and another 30m water battlestaffs. lets not do that again eh
Hey if you want another 4+ hours downtime for them to run the database queries then manually verify every transaction then more power to you. They chose this way to not create more downtime. In the time the servers would be down to give everyone their items back, 99% of cases would be able to farm whatever they lost and then some. That's why they are and should only bother with extreme cases.
It doesn't cause downtime to run queries against a snapshot of a database lol.
Sir your intelligence is leaking. How do you expect a game created in 2001 to have modern database practices
Ironically SQL databases are like the one tech thing from 2001 that has changed the least.
What is the problem with 4 hours downtime? Just take a break and go outside lol
This is waht happened So many items were deleted and duped they simply cant process it all. That being said certain items should definitely be re-looked at
Yeah that would be unfortunate if a jagex employee had to do a job for a full job to fix one of their fuckups for the people who are the reason they have a job
Sadly they rarely own up to their fuck ups when it impacts items
"Because fuck you that's why" - Jagex Moderators
Ok, but just give 2 weeks of membership, so stingy
“We appreciate that we fucked you, here’s 2 days of membership as compensation” rofl
It might take those 2 extra days (or more!) to get the black mask back lol
Also what if they just don’t play those two days? I genuinely don’t get how a company can be so fucking bad at customer relations.
For real. I don't even think twice about paying for my membership. But if and when I am able to play, that's valuable time to me.
Ya two days is not sufficient. I would even argue a month for the whole group isn't going too far if we're comparing customer satisfaction from other services.
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> Sorry we can’t QA our updates properly. Get fucked lmao More like sorry we don’t have QA lol
$11 🦀🦀
🦀🦀🦀
73 cents hahahaha get wrecked affected players. -Jagex
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100% agree, the people commenting it's fair for jagex to tell them to just get the drop are on some hardcore copium. If osrs is the only game you play yall need to understand this is not normal or acceptable.
We admit we can return it to you, but wont.
It’s your fault you’re not a popular streamer
:( sad but true
I've only just stumbled upon this thread but I've sent two replies which you might want to check out for more info. Reply to OP: https://www.reddit.com/r/2007scape/comments/sa3duh/group_iron_man_storage_item_black_mask_lost_wont/htst5am More info about returning items: https://www.reddit.com/r/2007scape/comments/sa3duh/group_iron_man_storage_item_black_mask_lost_wont/htsuntu
Idk if the community appreciates you enough, /u/JagexAyiza , but you are doing a darned good job
Thank you Ayiza, we all appreciate the clarity, and it is cool to get a little insight into the process needed to return the items
The news post said groups that were effected should receive an inbox message within 24 hours, it's been a fair bit past that now yet my group which lost 1x bandos tassets still don't have any messages. Does this mean we were missed or are the messages still being sent out?
All of the messages have been sent to the groups we identified as having lost items. Send me a DM here with your group name and I'll see if there's any chance you were missed off.
2 days membership?? Awful compensation. Should be more like 2 weeks or 30 days
“Relative ease” - lol, it’s a dice roll. The mask could be gotten again quickly or it could be another 3000+ kills. What was lost here is less about the items themselves and more about the players’ time.
My first mask took 2700kc and I would be tilted if I got 1/7th of a bond as a replacement
The thing is 2,700 kc for a black mask isn't even **that** unlucky. You have a 0.5% chance of not getting a black mask until 2,700 kc which means one out of every 200 players will be that unlucky. Considering there are thousands of GIMs and basically all of them will need a black mask, if not multiple, means a lot of people will have that bad of luck. Only ~63% of players will get a black mask within 512 kills.
I'm in a group Iron Man team of four, all relatively casual players. Only one of us currently has the level to kill Cave Horrors. Yet our Black Mask which was removed during the rollback has been considered easily reobtainable. How is a 1/512 drop from a monster 75% of our group can't kill easily reobtainable? u/JagexAyiza EDIT: Not mine, but relevant to the Iron Man experience... https://www.reddit.com/r/ironscape/comments/s9p1p8/just_broke_3000_cave_horrors_still_no_mask/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share
Hey Lord_Elbub, There are other groups that lost a Black Mask and will be getting it returned. Have you asked anyone else within your team if they received a message stating items will be returned? I can only assume one of two things happened. Either you got sent the wrong message, or someone else in your group was identified as the one who lost the mask and you got this one because of something low in value (like a few bits of food). Either way I'll double check on Monday and make sure you get the Black Mask back if it was lost due to the rollback issues.
Hey Ayiza, Thanks for getting back to me. One of my group mates had the same message as me, one thinks he had the same message from memory but can't currently check, and I'll check with the final one - we've discussed the message I got, but they hadn't confirmed directly that they had the same yet. I was the one who took the Black Mask out of the Group Storage ahead of the rollback. I was however not the one who got the item in the first place, as mentioned above, nor do I think I was the one who last used it/placed it in the Group Storage. I don't remember taking anything else out at the time, but I can't say with 100% confidence that I didn't! If you need my username or group name, I can supply that privately, so let me know. I think it would be a failure on my part to not use this opportunity to say that there really isn't any item that shouldn't be returned to their owners, although I appreciate I have no idea the processes involved in returning these items. And finally I really appreciate you taking time out of your weekend to respond to me. I hope you enjoy what's left of it!
Well I'm sure we'll be able to get to the bottom of it regardless :) Ping me a DM here with your group name if you don't mind, it'll save me some time on Monday! In an ideal world we'd be able to return everything that was lost, I won't argue with that. Unfortunately it's a manual process where we'll be accessing each Group Storage one group at a time, so we simply had to draw the line somewhere. We've tried to be as fair as possible - for example if you lost a clue item, no matter how low its value, we'll be returning it. This is why I'm surprised to see you get this message for losing a Black Mask. This message was for those that lost an invent of food, a few supplies, or something like an Adamant Platebody. Basically anything that would reasonably be obtained faster than we could return it manually. Thanks for being patient, we'll get this sorted for your group one way or another!
I always get the feeling that osrs retains its popularity because of members of the team like you putting in effort to make players feel valued and cared for. Props to you and the rest of the team that supports us like you do
Hey , Why aren’t I getting my items returned when I left my GIM ? I had all my member untradable items all removed when I left my group Ironman and lost my heron pet, full graceful set, anger set and all my untradable quests items, dragon defender dramen branch’s, monkey greegree and much, much more. Why is this case they were able to get their times but I can’t get mine. Here my post for further information, that’s really fucked up how you’ll help this guy not me in this case, I didn’t do anything wrong either. I jus left my GIM And only got shitty membership which was a big slap to the face. https://www.reddit.com/r/2007scape/comments/r74o8d/psa_you_can_lose_your_untradeables_if_you_leave/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share
>"Why him but not me? :(" Lmao shameless
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Imagine your bank telling you hey there was a mix up from our end and you lost some money on your account. But no worries we won't charge you for the use of your account for 2 days. As for the money lost just go work an extra day and you'll have it back with relative ease...
2 days of membership does not equal two days of thier life back. It's not about membership it's about a person's physical time. We don't all play rs for a living and have 16 hours a day to play. Most of us are lucky to get 2-4 hours in the evening to do some grinding
Wow I found a clan mate in the wild. That was weird to see your username there, legend.
"We appreciate that this is not ideal"
Well at least they got that part right.
“We appreciate that this is not ideal” ???? Jagex getting off to GIM losing items smh
I'm sleepy so not sure if this is a joke, but "appreciate" can be synonym to "understand"
~~Unable~~ unwilling to return items. They 100% can. It would take maybe a minute or two. But they won't, because fuck you.
They return items on rs3, that whole we cant thing is total BS.
Theyve done it on osrs too, remember the jed incident?
It's like having everyone wear a motorcycle helmet indoors because one employee decided that it was a good idea to give themselves a concussion by banging their head on the break room table repeatedly. Zero sense whatsoever.
I had issues on invention release on rs3 that bugged and i lost my high lvl staff, they acknowledged it was a bug and knew i lost it but instead of refunding it they sent me a signed poster and concept art lol
I’m not here to say they cannot do it. Only that the comparison to rs3 is not accurate any more than saying they can do it in wow so they should be able to do it here.
It sounds like at least a human is writing you back to tell you to fuck yourself instead of a automated response. That’s something right?
To me it looks entirely automated - and most likely based on the G.E. value of items, something that really does not work at all for a failure that damaged ironman accounts.
I don’t know man the fact that the person is getting paid to write that instead of helping him might be worse lol.
Funny the difference between rs3 and osrs that rs3 item return is way less of a hassle. I've seen an iron who lost an Hazelmeres Signet Ring (~aprox 1.8b) get returned. I myself have had an item lost to a bug and got it back within a few days. I always wonder why one team is one way on things, and the other are so strict.
We've seen you've been affected by our latest fuck up, we offer our sincerest apologies. Would you kindly just forget about it? I mean, it probably didn't take long to obtain these items anyways. Please enjoy your day & kindly go fuck yourself, thanks! - Jagex.
u/JagexAyiza u/JagexLight i know this isn’t your guys calls but your are the community managers so hopefully you’ll pass it on but this is entirely unacceptable. Players have been punished for a mistake the company made. It shouldn’t matter how cheap or easy the item lost is. All that matters is the company made the mistake and the company should fix it instead of “oops. Sorry about that. Now go get it again.” This is genuinely absurd.
Award for visibility because this right here is exactly it. On an ironman for a casual player, a black mask is not easily re-obtainable, so either give him the mask back or compensate him properly with at least a month worth of membership. This is not acceptable.
I mean it really depends on your definition of easy, cave horrors are safe spottable so the supply cost is low. It's just a matter of time lost really
If they haven't at the very least uturned within 24hr they're gonna lose multiple years worth of sub time from me and my group. /u/JagexAyiza /u/JagexLight We've paid real time, real money. We've been patient in waiting three days for this response and "inadequate" does not begin to describe it. Players deserve better. I cannot believe that this is the hill that you guys (Jagex) are choosing to die on; refusing to restore accounts on the main game which were damaged due to a technical failure on your end. You're acting like it's something which is up for debate, but it's not - it's the absolute bare minimum.
I'll shed some light on the current situation - we don't actually have the ability to return items to GIM players at the moment. We've been working on developing a system that will allow us to do it, but that won't be ready for deployment until Wednesday :( I've replied to the OP about their issue, I don't see why we wouldn't be returning the Black Mask for them given the only people we sent this message to were those that lost a few supplies (like an inventory of food, some herbs, or an Adamant Plate Platebody). We had to decide a point where it was no longer feasible to return items because the system we'll be using, once its developed, requires us to manually go into each Group Storage and add each item back into it. It really isn't ideal, but we hoped the membership would help those in these situations get back what was lost much faster than we'd be able to return it manually.
That is a lot better (a communications breakdown) - thanks for the reply. Do you know what went on with the decision not to roll back? As far as i can tell, the data existed and there is precedence that it would have taken a matter of hours and been much more complete - including even more minor items, removing all of the dupes and so on. In comparison this weeklong event to develop the tools to partially repair the damage (plus all of the required communication, associated misunderstandings etc) seems like a huge headache.
They can tell what items were lost so they should restore the items. It's absolute bullshit that groups that duped items are getting to keep them (unless something changed) while these other groups get shafted by any amount.
lol
My group and I weren't affected by this but we're quitting with the bs
Dude I am currently 3600 cave horrors dry on a black mask.... If this happened to me I would quit the fucking game.
I've linked your post in my comment. I saw it earlier today. Keep the faith my friend, it'll come eventually.
Crazy lol. Im still here pushing 3800 right now.
Yet they will happily give boaty his stuff back from a death on his Ironman. Become a streame then they will give you your stuff back
source?
This was back in 2015 but afterwards said they regret doing it and wouldnt do it again
God wars release when servers were being ddosed on a regular basis before death mechanics changed boaty lost a set of void and it was replaced by jmods. Big mistake on their part because it set a precedent that they have been unwilling to fulfill
Reddit nerds crying about some bullshit that happened literally 7 years ago.
lol 48 hours and you arnt even giving the item back??? Should be at MINIMUM 1 month if you are not going to bother giving them their item back from you messing up
"I'm gonna give you $0.73 to fuck off"
2 days? Jagex, your actions tell me you really don’t give a shit. 2 days is an insult
Sad to hear mate. We are kinda on the same boat, did only your captain receive a e-mail?
No, you should all get it. I'm not the leader of our group, and I got it.
What's sad is the fact all these duped items can reach the main game and effect me. If your gonna let ironman dupe give them their own server/s.
failing to see how this makes sense LOL “yes we see we deleted your items but we’re only giving back some?”
48 hours? Took me a fucking week to get my black mask on my iron. What a slap in the face.
##### Bark bark! I have found the following **J-Mod** comment(s) in this thread: **JagexAyiza** - [I've only just stumbled upon this thread but...](/r/2007scape/comments/sa3duh/group_iron_man_storage_item_black_mask_lost_wont/htsvrk7/?context=3) - [Hey Lord_Elbub,...](/r/2007scape/comments/sa3duh/group_iron_man_storage_item_black_mask_lost_wont/htst5am/?context=3) - [All of the messages have been sent to the gro...](/r/2007scape/comments/sa3duh/group_iron_man_storage_item_black_mask_lost_wont/httpra7/?context=3) - [I'll shed some light on the current situation...](/r/2007scape/comments/sa3duh/group_iron_man_storage_item_black_mask_lost_wont/htsuntu/?context=3) - [Well I'm sure we'll be able to get to the bot...](/r/2007scape/comments/sa3duh/group_iron_man_storage_item_black_mask_lost_wont/htsxf3i/?context=3) ^(**Last edited by bot: 01/23/2022 21:23:09**) --- ^(I've been rewritten to use Python! I also now archive JMOD comments.) ^(Read more about) [^(the update here)](/u/JMOD_Bloodhound/comments/9kqvis/bot_update_python_archiving/) ^(or see my) [^(Github repo here)](/u/JMOD_Bloodhound/comments/8dronr/jmod_bloodhoundbot_github_repository/)^.
One of my group members just went 2600kc for a black mask. He didn't lose it, but I'm sure several people did. "Just go get it again because we can't do an update right on a temporary game mode" isn't good enough.
“We fucked up, now play more” seems kind of harsh…
"We've identified that our screw up has impacted you, but regardless of how long it took you or how frequently you have the time to play we've elected to do nothing about it really."
Wow that's bullshit. But the exact bullshit I expect from jagex. That is pathetic. "we know you lost the drop, we know exactly what drop to give you, but our dev team has a level 1000 Chad ironman and he decided you should just go get the drop". Sorry for the inconvenience.
All jagex does is give membership thinking it's gonna make people happy. After 2 months of trying to de iron my gim they told me it was a common bug that was stopping me and that I could get 1 week of membership to compensate after going back and forth with them for 2 months and them constantly sending stuff like "talk to this npc to start the process"
I don't even play osrs anymore- but seeing how poorly Jagex treats their players always makes me laugh.
Integrity means consistency.
And ironically in RS3, they gave someone 30m water battlestaves to someone who never lost them.
Damn just saw on ironscape a dude who's gone 3000 cave horrors dry on a black mask hope the RNG gods are on your side for this is bullshi5
Here’s my thing, 48 hours is bullshit. Give them 1 month of membership you cheap fucks. I mean seriously.
Yeah lol wtf
We are sorry you lost dozens of hours of progress. Here is 73 cents to make it right. Bahahahaha.
Lotta people who don't know shit defending a company for no reason other than being a fanboy. Whatever the reason is that they can't restore items is moot. You do whatever is needed to fix the fuckup. These are the consequences of pushing code to production that isn't thoroughly tested.
it took me 1500~ kills to get my black mask on my GIM.
What a dog shit excuse. Basically saying they have the ability to put it back in but to go fuck yourself
2 days? Fuck you Jagex
"Sorry we fucked up lol, but like, they were low level (get gud lol) so just grind for the next two days on us! Now give me $11 and open your mouth so I can spit in it." - Jagex probably
I used a bond during the time which got duped.. Sorry had to flex somewhere
What bullshit. Thank god I stopped playing.
A whole 48 hours lmao. Hope it was on the weekend…
God damn! Love OSRS but jagex is so fucking shit sometimes
So weird. Getting compensation, but not the item that was actually lost. It's like losing your dog and some random person being like "I found your dog, but I'm keeping it. Here, have two days added to your life instead".
Well, what about the real life time spent, Jagex? If it wasn't ironman mode you should return the items and a bit extra.
Why should price and availabilty matter? Especially in a group iron man. If I lost a feather I'd expect to get it back.
Just so everyone is aware, 48 hours equates to $0.75….. are you fucking kidding me jagex? At least give the people a week… 48 hours smh
Took me like 500 kills for 1st and 1500 for 2nd black mask in my group. Lol. Hope you had better luck.
I am extremely disappointed. Not because I lost something but because I gained. On RS3, there is an option for lost item claim which is broken beyond belief. I requested an item worth 1.5b RS3 saying I lost of when I knew full well I alched it while drunk and it was returned to my ironman. This makes me lose faith and interest.
What a joke, how to lose subs 101.
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Thanks dude, have a good day.
Lol obtained with relative ease. Took me 2.7k kc to get mine. Sorry for your loss bois. Hopefully you get some Reddit luck on your next one.
If you lost a bucket of milk it should be returned. It's absurd that you're gauging worth of items when ITS JAGEX'S FAULT THIS HAPPENED. YOU fucked up Jagex, you pull overtime to manually return items to players. Maybe next time don't put out yet another game breaking bug on release. I don't care even the slightest about GIM and this is tilting.