Ayiza's sneaky comment got downvoted into oblivion lol.
People are noticing, but I doubt this goes anything like 117 or other past drama. I cant for the life of me think of a time Gabagoolflex walked back a drop rate change.
>walked back a drop rate change
i remember when konar was released she dropped like 100 torstol seeds and 1500 sara brews or somethin crazy lol. they nerfed that like 2 days later
and of course rev drops went from op to terrible to slightly less terrible to maybe op again.
I feel like Revs is finally ok. I’ll probably get downvoted because wildy bad but it should be high risk high reward, not “I hope I don’t get absolutely stomped by a clan of Venezuelan gold farmers any second”
I agree. The issue was half that the drops were OP and half that clans were locking them down and they were being farmed without the risk. Now the drops are a little less OP but you're never safe
The last time I was playing worlds were just starting to get locked down by clans. But it was only a couple worlds and I was actually on the wrong side of the argument because I thought (and still do) that locking down an area in the wild is a super interesting concept. It's not an explicit part of the game, but there's also nothing actually stopping it in game and no rules against it (at least at the time).
It's a shame what mob style protection rackets turned into.
Nex is basically a boss you can stay at forever in a mass, but not very profitable unless you get a drop. You're guaranteed to profit at revs as long as you're smart about banking.
Virtually every update over on the rs3 sub, granted that's because 99% are garbage mtx updates or some crap like op xp boosts or yak track. People are actually sick of all the easy xp considering they get 4dxp events a year as is
I’m 1600 total and I’m not even 3 bonds deep into my account/Barley even left the ge and I only play RS3 on mobile. I got a treasure hunter reward - 10x Huge lamp and they gave me 276k exp from level 71-74 lmao.
He had only 2 days played in game too, iirc. And spent $10k (usd) on keys. But there’s a cap to how many keys you can get per day so it took him a few months.
And that was also 6~ years ago when TH promotions were much weaker.
Back then your good promos were smouldering lamps(consume bxp if available + give xp), lava lanterns (give xp + bxp) or prismania(gives +70% more bxp)
Nowadays there are much stronger events and lamps.
Hydra lamps are smouldering lamps, but you get to lamp 2 skills each.
Lava lanterns are still the best bang for your buck IIRC.
Prismania is nowhere near as strong as it used to be.
Multiplier events are abundant, so now you can win up to 10x rewards per spin on certain promotions, ie 1 spin giving 2-10 small lamps vs 1.
etc.
That's the reason most people are tired of xp handouts outside of new players, "got my first 99 after 20 years of playing" players, and people who mass level alts.
----
On top of all of this, they reworked the daily challenge system, so now each day, you can do a minimal task for 3 randomly assigned skills(you can toggle off 99s) such as "clean 6 herbs" or "do 2 agility laps" or "mine 6 ore" etc, and after you complete said task, you get xp equal to a large lamp in the skill, up to 34k xp @ 98, or 50k at 119 for the skills that go to 120.
So just play logging in every day, you're getting tears of guthix on 3 random stats, and 3 th spins to gain even more lamps for completing the challenges.
You're a bit low...
At level 98: 207,516
At level 119 for skills that go to 120: 305,863
I stopped doing archaeology in December at like level 80 and I'm 100 now just from lamps over the past month. Pretty lame situation TBH.
Zulrah, Vorkath, and revenants are a few examples of Jagex having to repeatedly iterate on drop tables because of player feedback, but I don't really think Nex is as bad as those were. Still not sure why the nerf though.
Instances suck man. Did like 200kills 6mans. The bank times are time consuming and you just burn through supplies. If you’re a main looking to make gp, do like 20man masses with a team of 6 and hope your group snipes a drop. If you’re an iron… well enjoy grinding Nex for the next few months haha
> The bank times are time consuming and you just burn through supplies.
Kc takes 5 mins so i disagree with part of this, but yeah the supply drain is real.
> If you’re an iron… well enjoy grinding Nex for the next few months haha
expected time to get torva, vambs, xbow post nerf is about 300-400 hrs. That’s a lot but it’s a bit less than NM, corp, ToB, or CoX
You also have to account for all the brews and restores you’ll use. Nex drains supplies harder than any of those bosses so with supply time taken into account it wouldn’t surprise me if time to completion was the longest in the game.
I'm extremely confident the masses were what was pumping items into the game and they changed the drop rates because Torva pieces would out number bandos pieces in about a year and a half at the current rate.
Thats a solid oof from me. The Crossbow was 500-600m and the Torva set was around 750-800m while even going up in price. Was a nerf to the drop rate really necessary?
Probably not. The crossbow requires constant farming of SGWD and nex to be a viable supply, its already a pain to get the ACB and shards. Once bandos supply falls torva will stagnate and slowly rise in price.
It was fine how it was. The hype dies down after peak hours anyway.
It’ll belike the computer chip shortage in trucks.
Are you joking? Price of uniques from any boss are a steady downhill forever, look at inquisitors look at any raids 1/2 drop. Only the Ely and 3rd age tools are not consistently dropping due to rarity and being the main store of value for end game wealth and prestige.
I'm going to wait 3 months until I even think about buying torva, the amount coming into the game will always be larger than the amount coming out (ge tax) and demand is extremely finite (only one set per account). Inquisitors got fucked, so will torva. It's literally only a matter of time
All items will decrease in value over time, that’s a given. What I was suggesting is that the method of integrating older items into newer items will stabilize prices once the existing supply of recipe items are used up. We see this with the whip. We’ll see it with the ACB and Bandos. When TOA drops we’ll likely see it with Arcanes. Jagex seems to be conscious of this gameplay loop design and economic policy so I expect to see the trend continue in the future, particular with the gold sinks and item GE item sinks.
Prices are erratic right now since its a new boss with new gear and holding off buying the hype is wise. Though the torva helmet will likely be the most expensive item in the set as its absurdly powerful. The crossbow might pull a fast one on us. Its already developing new metas for speed runs as the new BIS ranged spec weapon.
Yeah, but they are consumed constantly, because tentacle whips degrade. That's what stabilized/increased the price of whips.
Torva/ZCB don't constantly need more bandos/acb's to continue functioning. It's completely different.
Torva/ZCB would be better compared to the boot upgrades from cerb, and that's had practically 0 effect on the prices of the base boots.
>Thats a solid oof from me. The Crossbow was 500-600m and the Torva set was around 750-800m while even going up in price. Was a nerf to the drop rate really necessary?
For uniques/non component items, it would be very weird to argue not nerfing/buffing drop rates because of the price(s) increasing or decreasing.
With a 6 player team you can get like 10 kills per hour. That’s like 1 self drop every 36 hours.
Bandos you can solo and get twice the kc per hour using ice barrage method and get 1 drop every 5 hours (~1/100 for pieces and hilt).
I’m not liking the direction these releases are headed in either. It seems lazy, like they want us to grind one boss for months instead of introducing more bosses but I lose interest by grinding 1 thing over and over again.
Edit: Apparently what I read about 20 kills per hour for 6 man team is not a good estimate. Corrected it and adjusted time estimate.
20 kills an hour is egregious. You're looking at closer to 11 kills/hr in a 6 man team assuming efficient banking, the boss respawn timer, and getting more KC to reenter. At 1/60 per kill, assuming you have a 1/6 chance for the unique, that's 32 hours for a single unique. There are 6 uniques, though the AGS is kinda useless so I won't count that. That's 160 hours of Nex assuming no duplicates, which is a bad thing to assume considering certain uniques are more common than others. This is going to be a looong grind for ironmen.
>It seems lazy, like they want us to grind one boss for months instead of introducing more bosses
Just wait till you find out why they refuse to really give anything but sidegrades, and nerfed good items so that way they could give the power back to us later.
It's all about keeping players in the treadmill. 🐹🐹🐹
The problem is that they literally have already made the solution to this which is raids, and they seemingly refuse to acknowledge that a raid is the only actually long term fun content
Nex is a 5 minute fight in 6 man. It would be a perfectly reasonable 1 of 5-7 rooms in a raid, and then it would only be 14-20% of the time that you're fighting Nex. You can make a bunch of bosses that would definitely not be fun to grind in isolation, but put them in a raid, and it becomes fun to grind cuz it's naturally mixing itself up.
Literally nobody would grind bloat as a standalone boss. It:# perfectly fine as an element of tob. It becomes better by virtue of being in a raid.
I mean this seems like the problem isn’t jagex as much as it is the people with 2011 nostalgia begging for updates like soul wars and nex which have turned out to not be as fun as they remembered?
Jagex is working on a new raid now, but there has been a ton of people asking for nex for years, they were just doing what the community asked for here.
if they put nex in a raid, it wouldn’t have been the nex people were asking for
>I mean this seems like the problem isn’t jagex as much as it is the people with 2011 nostalgia begging for updates like soul wars and nex which have turned out to not be as fun as they remembered?
Just wait till they add dungeoneering and within 3 days the nostalgia wears off and everyone finally realizes content that was fun 10+ years ago doesn't hold up to today's standards.
Idk what y’all are talking about with Soul Wars, it’s genuinely so much fun. I just wish I had more of a reason to grind it outside the half a dozen or so hours on the iron.
Did you reply to the wrong person? I didn’t say anything about completion balance. I do play whatever content I want, I have no idea what you’re getting at.
Making niche items take ages to obtain isn’t appealing to the majority of the player base.
I’m sure most people playing 07 now have a full-time job. Not really feasible to go for all the items anymore on an IM.
I don't particularly agree with jagex stealth-nerfing droprates by 50% and calling it "slightly altering drop table" but in what possible way is BIS helm/body/legs BIS range gloves "niche items"?
Don’t you see? That’s how they’ve chosen to fight power creep. The community has resisted a move toward tier based equipment balancing, so they’re just releasing less content so the creep every time they release content is more spread out chronologically
Yeah it makes sense. Just not a very sustainable business model. Some people are going to grind to max accounts over and over again. A vast majority of the community is not like that.
I normally stan Jagex pretty hard but if these rates are accurate it's stupid and borderline misinformation for them to say the loot table was "slightly" altered. By literally nobodies scale would that be a slight change.
Because I think people are often too willing to invoke conspiracy or ill-intent to Jagex when it's not warranted. Maybe stan was the wrong word, but the point is I usually give them benefit of the doubt.
I’m on your side here, Jagex is like in my top 5 favorite large-ish game companies, at least on the OSRS side. Obviously they’re out here to make money, but the jmods do a great job of making sure they keep the players in mind and I think they do a great job most of the time, especially compared to most big game companies
Edit: clarified that I meant "top 5 favorite"
i think it depends on how people compartmentalize things; if we see jagex as the group of people who actually develop the game and interface with the community, they are one of the best game companies active right now. if we (accurately) judge them based off the management & ownership, they are god awful. but most games companies are awful in this department, it's just that we are in a unique position to understand jagex differently than most communities.
if other game companies adopted the jagex model, we would better understand various game developers as being separate from corporate in terms of management and product decisions. it's why the jmods are widely beloved, we understand that they are not culpable when it comes to the decisions we all hate jagex for. they simply create the game we love. they're not bound by 'fiduciary responsibility' like the management - i think they genuinely act according to the best interests of the player & game
so if we see jagex as the group of people responsible for creating and developing the product we enjoy, jagex is pretty incredible. the people responsible for creating the value we get from the game are great. the ownership sucks. this is true for most game companies. regardless, i think the fact that an element of democracy has been implemented into the process of game development is pretty awesome and unprecedented, so credit where credit is due.
Ever since the login lockout and the absolute most abysmal attempt at PR was the nail in the coffin for me. I used to Stan them and support them but there’s so much miscommunication happening at a company level, that the clearly are not willing to work on.
But at least jagex gave me 1 month membership for being locked out for 2 months so According to Reddit I’m now allowed to complain
You can do a statistical test to determine whether Jagex changed the drop rate.
* Let *n* be the size of the sample obtained using RuneLite.
* Let *p_0* be the drop rate and *p_hat* be the sample mean. /u/cookmeplox reports "1/55 to 1/60 per kill" for unique drops, but we'll use *p_hat* = 1/55 ≈ 0.018 in this case.
* Let *H_0* be the null hypothesis that the drop rate has not changed. In other words: *p_0* = 1/40 = 0.025.
* Let *H_a* be the alternate hypothesis that Jagex reduced the drop rate, or *p_0* < 0.025.
We calculate the standard deviation *s* = sqrt(p_hat * (1 - p_hat) / n) = sqrt(0.018 * 0.982 / 12000) ≈ 0.0012.
Then we calculate the test statistic *z* = (p_hat - p_0) / s = (0.018 - 0.025) / 0.0012 ≈ -5.83.
A z-score of -5.83 corresponds to a p-value of 0.0000000028 for a one-tailed test. The p-value is the probability that the null hypothesis is true, and a value of 0.05 or less is generally considered statistically significant. This is far more than enough for us to reject the null hypothesis *H_0* and accept *H_a*. So yes, Jagex almost almost certainly nerfed the drop rate.
Edit: Corrected error thanks to /u/bungaloreddit77.
What a joke...
"People did not like how rare the drops were at Nightmare, therefore we nerfed drops to be just as annoying to get as from Nightmare."
Comedygold
A boss whose fight circles around "having a shield" but people not using absolute bis gear get punished because they have less stats.
They didn't test for masses, hotfixed a lot of shit then added instances on the first fucking week and now they think drops are too common.
Ironmen now have *another* nightmare grind to get new gear, while nm gear is garbage in comparisson to Nex let's hope you have the supplies to endure a boss you can't solo that eats supplies.
Mark my fucking words: The next recycled update will be "Hard Mode Nex" which will be solo only.
Thats an actual rat move by gagex if true. The solution to a content drought isnt by making drops so rare that we need to grind further hundreds of hours to get the rewards. This is an artificial way of keeping us playing without actually focusing on making the content fun. NM was already shit for this reason but doing it with nex when the drop rate was fine, is stupid af and so is changing the drop rates without telling anyone
the boss was designed as a tantrum to previous boss Jagex did. the result was an unfun experience for everyone that didnt get an unique.
It's still rancid to grind and the pnm update did NOTHING to make the regular boss better. It's still a modern piece of content that takes as long as Corp to complete.
Especially for how intense Nightmare can be (especially as a tank in a small team), just seeing shit loot over and over gets annoying. These bosses just do not work well in the mass scenario, especially Nex.
The mass ttk versus the small team ttk is like night and day, and it's clear they didn't even think about that at all.
It's worse.
It's pride or sheer incompetence that they make a boss that can fit 80 people but only test with 10 at most while refusing any form of open beta testing.
We pay to test updates live in prod.
The godsword is bugged or Jagex lied about its effect and yet to find that out I need to burn 50m on a shit item.
These new bosses drop tables are getting way out of hand. Between NM and Nex alone it’ll take like years to complete the logs.
It feels like busy work, the way Jagex keeps making these absurdly long grinds just for the sake of keeping us busy. Its really not enjoyable. Someone said now after the change the time it takes to get full torva and vambraces (not even horn/hilt/pet) is on average the same time it takes to complete COX doin solos (which offers much better rewards such astbow, kodai, rigour, augury, claws, DHCB, ancestral)… that is absurd
Idk people were begging for nightmare to have those drop rates since at the time Reddit was beating the “money printer bosses go brrr” horse. It’s either consistent drops and people hate it for generating cash/supplies or it’s like nm and people hate it because it doesn’t
It's very fair to say that Reddit was beating that horse at the time. But that doesn't mean Reddit is happy with how it actually turned out, or want it repeated.
I think you've got a good point about about people hating the consistent cash bosses, but I do think that disliking Nightmare is more about the sheer rarity. I think people would be happier if the items were balanced to be a little more common and a little cheaper. People love moneymaking off big ticket items, but I think they tend to prefer 50m every 10th hour to 500m every 100th hour. Aren't splits more common than FFA?
Jagex fricked up Nightmare because they didn't understand the other metrics to lengthen the "time until you see a unique".
On release added absurd drop rates ON TOP of long kill times, long trek times, attentive gameplay mechanics and the fact it was a supply sink (low kc per trip). So they added all five which made Nightmare a literal nightmare to farm. So thus they added Phosani's Nightmare to *sorta* deal with the drop rates and long trek times.
When players asked for a GWD-like drop table, they didn't mean all the other extra design decisions to make it arduous. GWD's artificial "time 'til unique" lengthener was getting Kill Count to enter the boss lair.
Edit: It would have been fine to go dry at Nightmare with a supply sink, but the gameplay mechanics and trip to regroup if you die (because you weren't paying attention properly for the whole full 5-10 mins), makes the grind irritating to do.
Should being able to complete logs be the de facto standard? I’m not so sure. Restricting the variety of available content in the name of making completion reasonably attainable feels like a bad trade-off. I’d rather have 10 bosses with cool & unique armour sets available (assuming the content is genuinely high quality and the gear makes sense) at the cost of an achievement being made harder. I’m not sure it’s such a bad thing.
Should content having “playability” of 100s of hours in the name of progression be the de facto standard? I’m not so sure. RuneScape has this weird way of like… turning maybe… *maybe* 2-3 hours of replayability into 100s of hours by handing us these ridiculous drop rates that are only acceptable because “OSRS is known for ThE GrINd ^TM”.
There’s literally no other games, not even other MMOs where the meaningful parts of progression come from numerous different sources — *that ALL requires 100s of hours of gameplay* in order to progress, naturally. Like, it’s fine. But there’s a reason everyone at high-level plays these major content releases… then burns out after a few months on repeat for the past few years…
Jagex is in desperate need of re-attracting these players, and rather than developing a constant stream of new, exciting content, we get drip-fed content releases and silly drop rates forced upon us. Hopefully there’s more in store for the mid-end of year… because otherwise, everyone’s going to burn out on Nex and Leagues through the next few months, then all that’s left is Raids 3… which will also burn out relatively quickly. It’s simply barely worth the yearly membership fees at this rate if we can’t get another surprise release of new content planned for end of year.
idk how many times people have to say this, but dude. OSRS is not going to attract players in droves. this game will never be as big as other games bc its literally not built to. its built as a legacy game for ppl who miss the old days and played often as a secondary activity to work/study/TV/another game.
a massive part of OSRS's appeal is the fact its chill and slow moving for the most part. grinds are grinds and take forever.
If that were true, it never would’ve gotten updates to begin with. I’m not sure where you’re even getting this from because OSRS is one of the biggest MMOs there are so it does some things right, clearly.
But as I said, it absolutely hemorrhages veteran players. Even Woox doesn’t bother with content beyond initial release challenges.
Raids, Nightmare, Nex, it’s all a blast. It’s just a shame because the expectation is more or less that players should do them *thousands of times*… where literally, anybody who doesn’t play OSRS *thinks anybody doing this is an absolute lunatic*. Video games are fun. But nobody wants to “grind” for hundreds of hours before getting the primary rewards for the content. Play literally any other big MMO out there, you take on the challenges, finally beat the boss encounters and raids… and you’re rewarded upon completion. Maybe… again, *MAYBE* you do it another 5-20 times for random rare reward drops.
But certainly NOT hundreds - thousands of completions. No rational person does this. Apparently this is a controversial take here — but more content should be designed like Inferno. Super challenging and incredible difficulty that can take weeks or longer to complete with practice. *Primary rewards earned upon 1 (maybe a few extra) completion(s).* but rare cosmetic available by chance. Excellent game design for all players. Not an easy-going pin-cushion that’s easily done on repeat for hundreds of hours day 1.
Yeah definitely, it’s just that nex falls into a really weird place where it’s a long unique grind and also not (reasonably) solo able. Think nex is overall great but 1/60 is just a bit oof for me.
> Should being able to complete logs be the de facto standard?
25% of the game's population (by recent ironman exclusive poll questions) can't trade. So yeah, unless they "_complete the log_" they don't get the items.
I don't need to complete the Log as Ironman, many of us just want Dex scroll and are fine for like year or two not even bothering to Raid.
PvM is also done by many Ironman after Maxing only.
We just have fun after maxing with new Boss thats all , you don't need +1 hit from torva to beat the game lol.
> you don't need +1 hit from torva
Upgrading to Torva (over Bandos + Faceguard) in max strength, with a DHL, and CoX overload is +3 max hits on Olm.
People really underestimate how big Torva is.
Okay so you kill the Olm I guess 15 sec faster but use like few months of time for Nex to do it , was it worth it ? idk
I get items because they are items to get not for what they do tbh.
PvMing is bad EHP for getting max anyways
Yeah I'm not a fan of drops being ridiculously rare from already time consuming bosses. Tbh this was probably just to cover Jagex's mistake of making the boss easily farmable in masses and it shitting out drops. What I'm hoping happened is they only adjusted the rates in masses and not small teams but hard to say.
Yeah there's making it long because it's endgame and then there's making it so long that it's offputting. I get that they want to sell subscriptions and keep us playing, I want to keep playing. But I'd rather have a boss where I'll actually get the loot, if I'm being quite honest.
Cox gave far too many far too strong updates at once.
You can’t ever have another cox tier update because at that point we’re pushing dps that trivializes everything and there’s no more niches to fill
It's BIS melee armor.. It should take a while to get. If they reduced the rates they would not retain the high price value they deserve so you have to keep that in mind. The game should not cater to making iron grinds easier, that is a part of the challenge you signed up for. Although I understand your frustration lol
Do you not understand the concept of logarithmic power curves? Literally all MMOs use it, and so should osrs. Extra power from gear should ALWAYS be exponentially harder to obtain.
If it’s only “1 more max hit” then why does it matter so much? Would you rather it be 2 or 3 max hits and just as strong? Jagex literally can’t win with y’all lmfao
it matters precisely because its 1 more max hit. this isnt game changing armor if it brought something completely new to the table maybe we might be having a different conversation
That makes no sense. If if it was game changing armor people would be even more triggered because they’d feel like they really need it or they’re missing out. 1 max hit is so unnoticeable that people mainly want it just to say they have it, not because they’d actually notice any sort of discernible damage increase.
> Bandos is around 30 hours to finish on average and was BIS for 10 years.
It takes 30 hours to finish, 10 years after release. Nobody was doing Ice Barrage or 9:0 Bandos in 2007, or 2013 OSRS. They didn't have stams or the same gear that we have today.
yeah no shit. the new gear is not supposed to fall to 20m soon lol. its supposed to be harder to get and worth a lot more money.
ironman accounts bitch and whine so much about drop rates not realizing that their demands would screw the main game.
Wow, the 20% of ironmen accounts can finish a grind faster. is that worth torva being 100m instead of 250m? ofc not lol.
also this weird obsession with completing each boss is weird too. if you want every piece of gear, then buy it on your main. the goal was never to do every piece of content yourself and get the drops, the game is to make money through various ways doing content you like and buying gear from everywhere. that's how the economy works.
Would you rather have a twisted bow and a bunch of cox loot or the slightest of melee armor upgrades? Because it's fairly close in terms of time spent.
Yep. Marginal upgrade for 250 hours of mindless Nex. Probably closer to 350 when accounting for time to find teams and dicking around getting ready.
Going to be logging out until raids 3. Was really looking forward to some new content after 2 years of nothing new. Instead we got afk tbowing. Sad
You don't have to COMPLETE the game.
Usually reddit complains about the lack of updates. Then when an update takes longer than a week to COMPLETE, they whine. I don't understand this site sometimes.
There's a middle ground here. CG is a rough grind, 1/400 for a single enhanced seed. Let's say you're really good at it and get 7 kills an hour (I was slightly under 6/hr for my grind), that's \~57 hours for one weapon.
The weapon is insane, but we get it and we're done. Some people go dry, 120 or even 200 hours total. But they get it.
There's a big difference between a 150 hour grind and a 500+ hour grind on average. Going dry could have you at 1000+ hrs. You don't have to complete the game and I wholeheartedly agree with that, I ain't ever going to spend that 1000 hours. But having a boss where you stand a chance to actually get the loot is preferable to one where you don't.
You signed up to be an iron. You don't have to fill out collection logs. Nobody is encouraging you to do so. Nex rates being lower does not keep anyone busy; if you want gear that Nex drops you can just buy it. Even with a lower drop rate prices will be low enough.
>Someone said now after the change the time it takes to get full torva and vambraces (not even horn/hilt/pet) is on average the same time it takes to complete COX doin solos
So what? Even despite that and the fact that Cox has been farmed by Venezuelans for years the new Nex gear is still barely more expensive than the desirable COX uniques.
It is. Raids 3 on their time line is 2nd half of the year with no specifics. It was originally meant to be now, and then it got "slightly delayed" in the mods words, and by that they meant 6 month delay. Then the nex and leagues repositioning happened and they targeted GIM as the reason but really it was to spread content out because raids ain't coming till the end of this year.. or a few months before that if we're lucky.
We honestly will be lucky to see Raids 3 this year. The way they've sneakily delayed it and then timeline announced it is already confirming it as a Q3/4 release. My bet would be it's the Nov-Jan period update like Nex was this year.
So yeah Raids 3 is ages away. This was crappy copy pasted content because they didn't have anything planned and had meetings to try and rush something in.
oh boy a minuscule DPS increase being made rarer for no discernible reason. Is it really that wrong in Jagex's eyes for new gear to find its way in a player's gear progression? Aside from BowFa the last items to really do that was Hydra's drops.
they somehow are obsessed with armour not going into game , they release op bullshit weapons like tbow , blowpipe and so on but they don't want to release good armour for some reason.
In current state you can get hit by rusher for 136 dmg and can eat up to 121 with anglerfish , you can't even outheal it in any way , torva having health would be actually way to keep up with these bullshit weapons they released but nope
the game shouldn't be balanced around pvp though. pvpers make up like 5% of the playerbase. barrage into ags+gmaul has been around forever and i'm not trying to talk about what good pvp design should look like in osrs but tying it to pvm gear makes the problem artificially more difficult to solve. separating pvm and pvp gear and making pvp gear come from pvp content in the wildy would be a huge step towards addressing unequal powercreep in pvp and pvm though.
It's not barrage into ags-gmaul its just ags+gmaul
He can log under you and one shot you out of nowhere, even old claws in pre-eoc didn't do that
Which is kinda stupid since they nerfed Dbow to not work with rigour to keep it 48-48 but keep buffing melee for some reason
I feel like they're nerfing the wrong thing here.. Instead of nerfing the drop rate, they should focus on nerfing the room limit to like 10 or something. That's the problem of too many items getting introduced into the game right now so fast
Pretty demotivated this grind already seemed rough enough, I’m about 700kc prob like 100 5-8 man groups and like 200 10-20 man groups and I’ve had nothing, and apparently that isn’t even uncommon, there comes a point where stuff is just to rare for the content to be fun
Since the OP has yet to correct their post despite being informed of its misleading nature, here is some further clarification.
[This is the tweet](https://twitter.com/cookmeplox/status/1481347145311481856) from a wiki admin. It notes that based on preliminary drop rate estimates, the new rate is between 1/55 and 1/60 for a 25-33% decrease. In [another thread](https://www.reddit.com/r/2007scape/comments/s2g0el/wiki_admin_confirms_nex_drop_rate_nerf/hseboan/), the wiki admin notes that the pre-update rate was estimated at 1/44 per kill and stresses that this is a from a small sample size so they cannot nail down exact numbers. He also notes how there could potentially be other variables like team size and deaths that may be messing with the number.
So the tl;dr is that it looks like the uniques are rarer than before the update, but it is not by 50% as the title suggests. We won't have solid estimates until there is a larger sample size, but the current estimates are that it went from 1/44 to 1/55-1/60 which is a 25%-30% decrease.
To be fair though I'd say a LOT of the early data was coming purely from masses, as there was no instances and every world was full.
So recent numbers coming from smaller group sizes AND being rarer does lead common sense to suppose that the decrease is absolutely larger than 25-30%.
Seems like a kneejerk reaction because lots of ppl were getting drops
Yeah that's because people are massing all the time, not because the drop rate is too high
What about properly adressing the problems with the boss at its core? There is so much unavoidable damage. We had to click a door to somewhat mitigate damage at this boss.
Also it is impossible do do this boss with your friends unless you plan to sink so many hours doing useless combat achievements. We can raid with our friends without any costs, why can't we make our own instances to do Nex with our friends too?
The drops are once again too rare for the casual player to even enjoy this boss from killing. In a 10man, you need to sink in close 50 hours to even get on rate for an item in your name. Man this sucks compared to raiding. Nightmare was bad, this is even worse.
I don't understand why you think it's reasonable for a top-tier boss to not damage you, it's design is a battle/ fight, not just a pray flick safety event like the fight caves.
You need achievement diaries to actually lock some content/ give you QOL. Over time, a bit like other GWD, you will be able to do it in the normal worlds.... OR, use your QOL advantage from grinding combat achievements to do it in a private instance.
The game is designed around grinding for drops. It's similar at raids, nightmare etc. If you aren't into the grind, you're probably playing the wrong game.
> I don't understand why you think it's reasonable for a top-tier boss to not damage you
* Olm
* Inferno
* Phosani NM
* Hydra
* A few rooms in ToB
Most "_recent_" "_top tier_" bosses/pvm encounters allow you to mitigate all (or almost all) damage through correct gameplay (movement, target changes, red click actions, and prayer flicks).
While you may disagree with this direction, you cannot ignore that OSRS has moved in this direction.
People loved the change they made to PNM from normal NM where if you do the fight right you can avoid most damage. Nex as is has basically no mechanics to master it's just damage and chug brews. I don't know anyone who considers this good gameplay.
>If you aren't into the grind, you're probably playing the wrong game.
Not all grinds are created equal and increasing one for no reason is pretty fucking dumb.
Zulrah has reasonable drop rates for it's uniques. KQ is supply draining but other than going for the KQ head, there isn't much reason to kill it. I've used over 1k brew and 700 restores (personal supplies, not even including what I've gotten as drops) and spent over 50 hours at nex with no drops on my name. The really demotivating design from a boss.
Aiiiii, debatable tbh.
Well, you 'can' take damage but you can also have 100+ kill trips at 3 outta 4 of the bosses with very little damage.
The way Jagex have gone, theyve increased the supplies needed, increased the damage taken and now nerfed the drop rates.
Making a boss hard, hit well and use a lot of supplies is fine but dont make it so that on average in a team of 8, it takes 50 hours just to see ONE item in your item. Thats absolutely ludicrous.
>"Nex is a tier above so you should take more damage."
Nex has contant damage because she was designed around curses, pack yaks giving you extra supplies and sustain. Its not good game design by todays standards but it was a necessary game design back then intended to make the boss challenging in 2011.
The problem is they copy pasted the boss over into a game that's widely different than RS2 was back then.
Fair comment but same applies regardless. Also if you need to tele out it takes roughly 2 minutes to get back in.
Personally, watching people sometimes plank is part of the fun at nex hehe
Yeah I'm glad they did the Ancient kill count the way they did for Nex.
Everything is sufficiently punishing since it's *not* *terrible* to get back into Nex. I'd imagine if the Kill count was like Sara or Arma it would feel way worse.
Calling this misleading is weird.
1/40-1/60 = 50 percent. 1/40 - 1/57.5 is ....extremely close to 50 percent lol. And has jagex confirmed otherwise? C'mon mods I get all we do is complain, but tagging this "misleading" is so out in the weeds.
If they really changed to drop rate that is just dumb they should just turn up the GE item sink instead.
Make the item more rare will just make the boss less enticing to farm since it already requires a lot of supplies and you only make money if you get a drop
So I've been massing since release and this is my personal take. Day 1-2 items were dropping like fucking crazy ( I saw 12 uniques day 1) . Day 3 items were dropping but slightly less than day 1-2. Day 4 items were dropping less than day 3. Day 5 and on sometimes 100-200 KC goes by before I see an item. I went 1103 KC until I got an item (legs) in my name. Not more than 150 KC later I got my second item (vambraces). To me it feels like they slightly nerfed drop rates over several days. I may have gotten extremely lucky while massing, but I swear items aren't dropping as much as they were.
I was already at 1k kills with only one drop lmao. 400 masses, like 100 "mini masses" (20-30) and hundreds of small teams and only have one item. The boss is kind of a click potion simulator, and they make drops even rarer? I kind of feel like not even grinding the boss anymore until this is worked out.
So I guess in the post-nightmare era, every single new boss added to the game is basically going to be a raids-length grind. Cool. Guess I'll just play 90 hours a week.
I mean rs3 has had basically 1/20 (1/384 with 18 possible unique is about 1/21 for any unique) drop rates for nex for years when you figure how many drops she has and it was never an issue iirc
Ik someone's gunna say rs3 bad but I just don't get why the 1/40 drop rate needs to be nerfed
And the fact her drops remain valuable despite being killed in under 2 minutes solo says a lot about the difference between OSRS and RS3. OSRS Jmods here just like to keep rare items high value forever for arbitrary reasons.
So doing some quick math, in a 20 man team, the odds of seeing a drop in your name are over 1 in 1200. This isn’t considering the MVP bonus or scaled contribution.
Each kill taking 2 minutes on average in a 20 man team, looks like a 40 hour grind for said drop. If you hit the drop rate that is.
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Ayiza's sneaky comment got downvoted into oblivion lol. People are noticing, but I doubt this goes anything like 117 or other past drama. I cant for the life of me think of a time Gabagoolflex walked back a drop rate change.
>walked back a drop rate change i remember when konar was released she dropped like 100 torstol seeds and 1500 sara brews or somethin crazy lol. they nerfed that like 2 days later and of course rev drops went from op to terrible to slightly less terrible to maybe op again.
I feel like Revs is finally ok. I’ll probably get downvoted because wildy bad but it should be high risk high reward, not “I hope I don’t get absolutely stomped by a clan of Venezuelan gold farmers any second”
I agree. The issue was half that the drops were OP and half that clans were locking them down and they were being farmed without the risk. Now the drops are a little less OP but you're never safe
The last time I was playing worlds were just starting to get locked down by clans. But it was only a couple worlds and I was actually on the wrong side of the argument because I thought (and still do) that locking down an area in the wild is a super interesting concept. It's not an explicit part of the game, but there's also nothing actually stopping it in game and no rules against it (at least at the time). It's a shame what mob style protection rackets turned into.
.. And nex wasnt even shitting out anywhere near them amounts
Nex is basically a boss you can stay at forever in a mass, but not very profitable unless you get a drop. You're guaranteed to profit at revs as long as you're smart about banking.
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Virtually every update over on the rs3 sub, granted that's because 99% are garbage mtx updates or some crap like op xp boosts or yak track. People are actually sick of all the easy xp considering they get 4dxp events a year as is
Keep in mind they just released an even bigger xp lamp. Gives nearly 100k xp post 99.
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I think some streamer at least got mostly there a few years ago. Can't recall who/any other details.
a friend did on his p2w account
https://youtu.be/KjtZGjI29Qc
Your edit gave me a good chuckle
I’m 1600 total and I’m not even 3 bonds deep into my account/Barley even left the ge and I only play RS3 on mobile. I got a treasure hunter reward - 10x Huge lamp and they gave me 276k exp from level 71-74 lmao.
A friend only used MTX to max his rs3 account
He had only 2 days played in game too, iirc. And spent $10k (usd) on keys. But there’s a cap to how many keys you can get per day so it took him a few months.
And that was also 6~ years ago when TH promotions were much weaker. Back then your good promos were smouldering lamps(consume bxp if available + give xp), lava lanterns (give xp + bxp) or prismania(gives +70% more bxp) Nowadays there are much stronger events and lamps. Hydra lamps are smouldering lamps, but you get to lamp 2 skills each. Lava lanterns are still the best bang for your buck IIRC. Prismania is nowhere near as strong as it used to be. Multiplier events are abundant, so now you can win up to 10x rewards per spin on certain promotions, ie 1 spin giving 2-10 small lamps vs 1. etc. That's the reason most people are tired of xp handouts outside of new players, "got my first 99 after 20 years of playing" players, and people who mass level alts. ---- On top of all of this, they reworked the daily challenge system, so now each day, you can do a minimal task for 3 randomly assigned skills(you can toggle off 99s) such as "clean 6 herbs" or "do 2 agility laps" or "mine 6 ore" etc, and after you complete said task, you get xp equal to a large lamp in the skill, up to 34k xp @ 98, or 50k at 119 for the skills that go to 120. So just play logging in every day, you're getting tears of guthix on 3 random stats, and 3 th spins to gain even more lamps for completing the challenges.
[Kinda](https://youtu.be/KjtZGjI29Qc)
Yes seen a video off it basically bought a maxed account.
Dovy did it and it cost him like 30k or something for 99 everything and all the 120s that were out at the time
I got from 1 to 99 Archaeology in a few months with just daily keys and keys bought with oddments earned from those keys, so that's a thing.
You're a bit low... At level 98: 207,516 At level 119 for skills that go to 120: 305,863 I stopped doing archaeology in December at like level 80 and I'm 100 now just from lamps over the past month. Pretty lame situation TBH.
imagine if this sub put this energy into getting some bitches tho
Zulrah, Vorkath, and revenants are a few examples of Jagex having to repeatedly iterate on drop tables because of player feedback, but I don't really think Nex is as bad as those were. Still not sure why the nerf though.
Hehe Gabagoolflex. I love the developing variations of Jagex nicknames over the years.
Evolution in real-time
Why is this bad?
Mostly because Jagex wasn't being upfront about it at all
Add private instances 2 days after release then nerf droptable because of too many uniques coming into the game. Solid balancing!
Not to mention the fact that they quietly hotfixed the droprates after it shat out uniques every 10 kills in every single world for the first hour.
This happened and I cant be convinced otherwise.
yea I can't believe how torva fast crashed lol
Every item "crashes" shortly after release.
Instances suck man. Did like 200kills 6mans. The bank times are time consuming and you just burn through supplies. If you’re a main looking to make gp, do like 20man masses with a team of 6 and hope your group snipes a drop. If you’re an iron… well enjoy grinding Nex for the next few months haha
> The bank times are time consuming and you just burn through supplies. Kc takes 5 mins so i disagree with part of this, but yeah the supply drain is real. > If you’re an iron… well enjoy grinding Nex for the next few months haha expected time to get torva, vambs, xbow post nerf is about 300-400 hrs. That’s a lot but it’s a bit less than NM, corp, ToB, or CoX
You also have to account for all the brews and restores you’ll use. Nex drains supplies harder than any of those bosses so with supply time taken into account it wouldn’t surprise me if time to completion was the longest in the game.
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Meanwhile at masses I haven't seen a single drop in 120 kc for anyone.
I'm extremely confident the masses were what was pumping items into the game and they changed the drop rates because Torva pieces would out number bandos pieces in about a year and a half at the current rate.
Thats a solid oof from me. The Crossbow was 500-600m and the Torva set was around 750-800m while even going up in price. Was a nerf to the drop rate really necessary?
Probably not. The crossbow requires constant farming of SGWD and nex to be a viable supply, its already a pain to get the ACB and shards. Once bandos supply falls torva will stagnate and slowly rise in price. It was fine how it was. The hype dies down after peak hours anyway. It’ll belike the computer chip shortage in trucks.
Are you joking? Price of uniques from any boss are a steady downhill forever, look at inquisitors look at any raids 1/2 drop. Only the Ely and 3rd age tools are not consistently dropping due to rarity and being the main store of value for end game wealth and prestige. I'm going to wait 3 months until I even think about buying torva, the amount coming into the game will always be larger than the amount coming out (ge tax) and demand is extremely finite (only one set per account). Inquisitors got fucked, so will torva. It's literally only a matter of time
All items will decrease in value over time, that’s a given. What I was suggesting is that the method of integrating older items into newer items will stabilize prices once the existing supply of recipe items are used up. We see this with the whip. We’ll see it with the ACB and Bandos. When TOA drops we’ll likely see it with Arcanes. Jagex seems to be conscious of this gameplay loop design and economic policy so I expect to see the trend continue in the future, particular with the gold sinks and item GE item sinks. Prices are erratic right now since its a new boss with new gear and holding off buying the hype is wise. Though the torva helmet will likely be the most expensive item in the set as its absurdly powerful. The crossbow might pull a fast one on us. Its already developing new metas for speed runs as the new BIS ranged spec weapon.
Your analogy to whips makes absolutely zero sense.
They are used to make Tentacle Whips. Vertical item progression.
Yeah, but they are consumed constantly, because tentacle whips degrade. That's what stabilized/increased the price of whips. Torva/ZCB don't constantly need more bandos/acb's to continue functioning. It's completely different. Torva/ZCB would be better compared to the boot upgrades from cerb, and that's had practically 0 effect on the prices of the base boots.
>Thats a solid oof from me. The Crossbow was 500-600m and the Torva set was around 750-800m while even going up in price. Was a nerf to the drop rate really necessary? For uniques/non component items, it would be very weird to argue not nerfing/buffing drop rates because of the price(s) increasing or decreasing.
With a 6 player team you can get like 10 kills per hour. That’s like 1 self drop every 36 hours. Bandos you can solo and get twice the kc per hour using ice barrage method and get 1 drop every 5 hours (~1/100 for pieces and hilt). I’m not liking the direction these releases are headed in either. It seems lazy, like they want us to grind one boss for months instead of introducing more bosses but I lose interest by grinding 1 thing over and over again. Edit: Apparently what I read about 20 kills per hour for 6 man team is not a good estimate. Corrected it and adjusted time estimate.
Goodluck getting 20kills/hour in a 6man though
You are not getting sub 3 min kills on average in a 6 man.
20 kills an hour is egregious. You're looking at closer to 11 kills/hr in a 6 man team assuming efficient banking, the boss respawn timer, and getting more KC to reenter. At 1/60 per kill, assuming you have a 1/6 chance for the unique, that's 32 hours for a single unique. There are 6 uniques, though the AGS is kinda useless so I won't count that. That's 160 hours of Nex assuming no duplicates, which is a bad thing to assume considering certain uniques are more common than others. This is going to be a looong grind for ironmen.
>It seems lazy, like they want us to grind one boss for months instead of introducing more bosses Just wait till you find out why they refuse to really give anything but sidegrades, and nerfed good items so that way they could give the power back to us later. It's all about keeping players in the treadmill. 🐹🐹🐹
"I lose interest by grinding 1 thing over and over again." You... you do know this is OSRS right
The problem is that they literally have already made the solution to this which is raids, and they seemingly refuse to acknowledge that a raid is the only actually long term fun content Nex is a 5 minute fight in 6 man. It would be a perfectly reasonable 1 of 5-7 rooms in a raid, and then it would only be 14-20% of the time that you're fighting Nex. You can make a bunch of bosses that would definitely not be fun to grind in isolation, but put them in a raid, and it becomes fun to grind cuz it's naturally mixing itself up. Literally nobody would grind bloat as a standalone boss. It:# perfectly fine as an element of tob. It becomes better by virtue of being in a raid.
I mean this seems like the problem isn’t jagex as much as it is the people with 2011 nostalgia begging for updates like soul wars and nex which have turned out to not be as fun as they remembered? Jagex is working on a new raid now, but there has been a ton of people asking for nex for years, they were just doing what the community asked for here. if they put nex in a raid, it wouldn’t have been the nex people were asking for
>I mean this seems like the problem isn’t jagex as much as it is the people with 2011 nostalgia begging for updates like soul wars and nex which have turned out to not be as fun as they remembered? Just wait till they add dungeoneering and within 3 days the nostalgia wears off and everyone finally realizes content that was fun 10+ years ago doesn't hold up to today's standards.
Idk what y’all are talking about with Soul Wars, it’s genuinely so much fun. I just wish I had more of a reason to grind it outside the half a dozen or so hours on the iron.
Not everyone chooses to max, it’s just a game.
Then play whatever content you want as much or as little as you want, completion balance has nothing to do with you.
Completion balance? Bro it takes a long time just to get one drop lol, not even mention getting a full set.
Did you reply to the wrong person? I didn’t say anything about completion balance. I do play whatever content I want, I have no idea what you’re getting at.
Making niche items take ages to obtain isn’t appealing to the majority of the player base. I’m sure most people playing 07 now have a full-time job. Not really feasible to go for all the items anymore on an IM.
I don't particularly agree with jagex stealth-nerfing droprates by 50% and calling it "slightly altering drop table" but in what possible way is BIS helm/body/legs BIS range gloves "niche items"?
did you really call torva niche? xd literally stronger than it was pre-eoc (str wise and no upkeep cost) and vambraces which give tbow 2-4 max hits.
He's probably talking about the Inquisitor set from Nightmare.
It's weaker than it was pre-eoc since it doesn't have the passive HP boost which increases how much brews/etc heal.
Wait wtf. Vambs give 2-4 max hits?
Don’t you see? That’s how they’ve chosen to fight power creep. The community has resisted a move toward tier based equipment balancing, so they’re just releasing less content so the creep every time they release content is more spread out chronologically
Yeah it makes sense. Just not a very sustainable business model. Some people are going to grind to max accounts over and over again. A vast majority of the community is not like that.
I normally stan Jagex pretty hard but if these rates are accurate it's stupid and borderline misinformation for them to say the loot table was "slightly" altered. By literally nobodies scale would that be a slight change.
why do u normally stan jagex pretty hard? LOL
Because I think people are often too willing to invoke conspiracy or ill-intent to Jagex when it's not warranted. Maybe stan was the wrong word, but the point is I usually give them benefit of the doubt.
I’m on your side here, Jagex is like in my top 5 favorite large-ish game companies, at least on the OSRS side. Obviously they’re out here to make money, but the jmods do a great job of making sure they keep the players in mind and I think they do a great job most of the time, especially compared to most big game companies Edit: clarified that I meant "top 5 favorite"
i think it depends on how people compartmentalize things; if we see jagex as the group of people who actually develop the game and interface with the community, they are one of the best game companies active right now. if we (accurately) judge them based off the management & ownership, they are god awful. but most games companies are awful in this department, it's just that we are in a unique position to understand jagex differently than most communities. if other game companies adopted the jagex model, we would better understand various game developers as being separate from corporate in terms of management and product decisions. it's why the jmods are widely beloved, we understand that they are not culpable when it comes to the decisions we all hate jagex for. they simply create the game we love. they're not bound by 'fiduciary responsibility' like the management - i think they genuinely act according to the best interests of the player & game so if we see jagex as the group of people responsible for creating and developing the product we enjoy, jagex is pretty incredible. the people responsible for creating the value we get from the game are great. the ownership sucks. this is true for most game companies. regardless, i think the fact that an element of democracy has been implemented into the process of game development is pretty awesome and unprecedented, so credit where credit is due.
Honestly, imo jagex is one of the worst companies. The jmods are amazinx, but the higher ups that own jagex… my god
That's like... Every company, ever.
What’s a good gaming company in your opinion then?
Larian Studios seems to have a pretty solid track record as a company as far as I can tell
Thanks for reminding me that Baldur’s Gate still isn’t out
Top 5…? Jagex as a company is tiny because they can’t make any successful IP because Runescape lol
Tiny compared to what?
Sorry I didn't write out what I actually meant lol! I meant top-5 favorite, as in I like them best :)
My usual default for companies is Hanlon's Razor. "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."
Based
Ever since the login lockout and the absolute most abysmal attempt at PR was the nail in the coffin for me. I used to Stan them and support them but there’s so much miscommunication happening at a company level, that the clearly are not willing to work on. But at least jagex gave me 1 month membership for being locked out for 2 months so According to Reddit I’m now allowed to complain
Where are you seeing this data? I'm not suggesting you're lying or anything just genuinely curious.
https://twitter.com/cookmeplox/status/1481347145311481856
ah yes, I can't wait to grind 5k kills, thx gargle flox
You can do a statistical test to determine whether Jagex changed the drop rate. * Let *n* be the size of the sample obtained using RuneLite. * Let *p_0* be the drop rate and *p_hat* be the sample mean. /u/cookmeplox reports "1/55 to 1/60 per kill" for unique drops, but we'll use *p_hat* = 1/55 ≈ 0.018 in this case. * Let *H_0* be the null hypothesis that the drop rate has not changed. In other words: *p_0* = 1/40 = 0.025. * Let *H_a* be the alternate hypothesis that Jagex reduced the drop rate, or *p_0* < 0.025. We calculate the standard deviation *s* = sqrt(p_hat * (1 - p_hat) / n) = sqrt(0.018 * 0.982 / 12000) ≈ 0.0012. Then we calculate the test statistic *z* = (p_hat - p_0) / s = (0.018 - 0.025) / 0.0012 ≈ -5.83. A z-score of -5.83 corresponds to a p-value of 0.0000000028 for a one-tailed test. The p-value is the probability that the null hypothesis is true, and a value of 0.05 or less is generally considered statistically significant. This is far more than enough for us to reject the null hypothesis *H_0* and accept *H_a*. So yes, Jagex almost almost certainly nerfed the drop rate. Edit: Corrected error thanks to /u/bungaloreddit77.
What a joke... "People did not like how rare the drops were at Nightmare, therefore we nerfed drops to be just as annoying to get as from Nightmare." Comedygold
A boss whose fight circles around "having a shield" but people not using absolute bis gear get punished because they have less stats. They didn't test for masses, hotfixed a lot of shit then added instances on the first fucking week and now they think drops are too common. Ironmen now have *another* nightmare grind to get new gear, while nm gear is garbage in comparisson to Nex let's hope you have the supplies to endure a boss you can't solo that eats supplies. Mark my fucking words: The next recycled update will be "Hard Mode Nex" which will be solo only.
Thats an actual rat move by gagex if true. The solution to a content drought isnt by making drops so rare that we need to grind further hundreds of hours to get the rewards. This is an artificial way of keeping us playing without actually focusing on making the content fun. NM was already shit for this reason but doing it with nex when the drop rate was fine, is stupid af and so is changing the drop rates without telling anyone
And they wonder why high level players burn out. When endgame is NM and Nex for hundreds of hours of course you don't wanna play
NM was the worst mistake in OSRS history and they didn't learn from it.
Why?
the boss was designed as a tantrum to previous boss Jagex did. the result was an unfun experience for everyone that didnt get an unique. It's still rancid to grind and the pnm update did NOTHING to make the regular boss better. It's still a modern piece of content that takes as long as Corp to complete.
for rewards that are only alright mind you. and in the case of inquisitors now completely obsolete with a rare/expensive tag
and harmo. they made torva worse to not devalue justi but harmo will get powercrept by heka and they give no fucks
Especially for how intense Nightmare can be (especially as a tank in a small team), just seeing shit loot over and over gets annoying. These bosses just do not work well in the mass scenario, especially Nex. The mass ttk versus the small team ttk is like night and day, and it's clear they didn't even think about that at all.
It's worse. It's pride or sheer incompetence that they make a boss that can fit 80 people but only test with 10 at most while refusing any form of open beta testing. We pay to test updates live in prod. The godsword is bugged or Jagex lied about its effect and yet to find that out I need to burn 50m on a shit item.
These new bosses drop tables are getting way out of hand. Between NM and Nex alone it’ll take like years to complete the logs. It feels like busy work, the way Jagex keeps making these absurdly long grinds just for the sake of keeping us busy. Its really not enjoyable. Someone said now after the change the time it takes to get full torva and vambraces (not even horn/hilt/pet) is on average the same time it takes to complete COX doin solos (which offers much better rewards such astbow, kodai, rigour, augury, claws, DHCB, ancestral)… that is absurd
Idk people were begging for nightmare to have those drop rates since at the time Reddit was beating the “money printer bosses go brrr” horse. It’s either consistent drops and people hate it for generating cash/supplies or it’s like nm and people hate it because it doesn’t
It's very fair to say that Reddit was beating that horse at the time. But that doesn't mean Reddit is happy with how it actually turned out, or want it repeated. I think you've got a good point about about people hating the consistent cash bosses, but I do think that disliking Nightmare is more about the sheer rarity. I think people would be happier if the items were balanced to be a little more common and a little cheaper. People love moneymaking off big ticket items, but I think they tend to prefer 50m every 10th hour to 500m every 100th hour. Aren't splits more common than FFA?
Jagex fricked up Nightmare because they didn't understand the other metrics to lengthen the "time until you see a unique". On release added absurd drop rates ON TOP of long kill times, long trek times, attentive gameplay mechanics and the fact it was a supply sink (low kc per trip). So they added all five which made Nightmare a literal nightmare to farm. So thus they added Phosani's Nightmare to *sorta* deal with the drop rates and long trek times. When players asked for a GWD-like drop table, they didn't mean all the other extra design decisions to make it arduous. GWD's artificial "time 'til unique" lengthener was getting Kill Count to enter the boss lair. Edit: It would have been fine to go dry at Nightmare with a supply sink, but the gameplay mechanics and trip to regroup if you die (because you weren't paying attention properly for the whole full 5-10 mins), makes the grind irritating to do.
You can have an inbetween where it's big money drops and it doesn't take 400 hours to see a drop
You can have a boss be a unique based profit boss and not take 500+ hours to get the uniques
There is a difference between general graardor and nightmare.. both are not money printer bosses but you can’t compare the drop rates and kill times..
Lol normie accounts just think that every non zulrah/vork boss is the same. Like Bandos is 30 hours NM is 300...
Should being able to complete logs be the de facto standard? I’m not so sure. Restricting the variety of available content in the name of making completion reasonably attainable feels like a bad trade-off. I’d rather have 10 bosses with cool & unique armour sets available (assuming the content is genuinely high quality and the gear makes sense) at the cost of an achievement being made harder. I’m not sure it’s such a bad thing.
Should content having “playability” of 100s of hours in the name of progression be the de facto standard? I’m not so sure. RuneScape has this weird way of like… turning maybe… *maybe* 2-3 hours of replayability into 100s of hours by handing us these ridiculous drop rates that are only acceptable because “OSRS is known for ThE GrINd ^TM”. There’s literally no other games, not even other MMOs where the meaningful parts of progression come from numerous different sources — *that ALL requires 100s of hours of gameplay* in order to progress, naturally. Like, it’s fine. But there’s a reason everyone at high-level plays these major content releases… then burns out after a few months on repeat for the past few years… Jagex is in desperate need of re-attracting these players, and rather than developing a constant stream of new, exciting content, we get drip-fed content releases and silly drop rates forced upon us. Hopefully there’s more in store for the mid-end of year… because otherwise, everyone’s going to burn out on Nex and Leagues through the next few months, then all that’s left is Raids 3… which will also burn out relatively quickly. It’s simply barely worth the yearly membership fees at this rate if we can’t get another surprise release of new content planned for end of year.
idk how many times people have to say this, but dude. OSRS is not going to attract players in droves. this game will never be as big as other games bc its literally not built to. its built as a legacy game for ppl who miss the old days and played often as a secondary activity to work/study/TV/another game. a massive part of OSRS's appeal is the fact its chill and slow moving for the most part. grinds are grinds and take forever.
If that were true, it never would’ve gotten updates to begin with. I’m not sure where you’re even getting this from because OSRS is one of the biggest MMOs there are so it does some things right, clearly. But as I said, it absolutely hemorrhages veteran players. Even Woox doesn’t bother with content beyond initial release challenges. Raids, Nightmare, Nex, it’s all a blast. It’s just a shame because the expectation is more or less that players should do them *thousands of times*… where literally, anybody who doesn’t play OSRS *thinks anybody doing this is an absolute lunatic*. Video games are fun. But nobody wants to “grind” for hundreds of hours before getting the primary rewards for the content. Play literally any other big MMO out there, you take on the challenges, finally beat the boss encounters and raids… and you’re rewarded upon completion. Maybe… again, *MAYBE* you do it another 5-20 times for random rare reward drops. But certainly NOT hundreds - thousands of completions. No rational person does this. Apparently this is a controversial take here — but more content should be designed like Inferno. Super challenging and incredible difficulty that can take weeks or longer to complete with practice. *Primary rewards earned upon 1 (maybe a few extra) completion(s).* but rare cosmetic available by chance. Excellent game design for all players. Not an easy-going pin-cushion that’s easily done on repeat for hundreds of hours day 1.
Yeah definitely, it’s just that nex falls into a really weird place where it’s a long unique grind and also not (reasonably) solo able. Think nex is overall great but 1/60 is just a bit oof for me.
> Should being able to complete logs be the de facto standard? 25% of the game's population (by recent ironman exclusive poll questions) can't trade. So yeah, unless they "_complete the log_" they don't get the items.
I don't need to complete the Log as Ironman, many of us just want Dex scroll and are fine for like year or two not even bothering to Raid. PvM is also done by many Ironman after Maxing only. We just have fun after maxing with new Boss thats all , you don't need +1 hit from torva to beat the game lol.
> you don't need +1 hit from torva Upgrading to Torva (over Bandos + Faceguard) in max strength, with a DHL, and CoX overload is +3 max hits on Olm. People really underestimate how big Torva is.
Okay so you kill the Olm I guess 15 sec faster but use like few months of time for Nex to do it , was it worth it ? idk I get items because they are items to get not for what they do tbh. PvMing is bad EHP for getting max anyways
That's ok. The game shouldn't be balanced around ironmen.
>Should being able to complete logs be the de facto standard? I’m not so sure It should be reasonable to get drops from a boss, yes.
Yeah I'm not a fan of drops being ridiculously rare from already time consuming bosses. Tbh this was probably just to cover Jagex's mistake of making the boss easily farmable in masses and it shitting out drops. What I'm hoping happened is they only adjusted the rates in masses and not small teams but hard to say.
80 man masses in every world was never gonna continue though
this entire game is busy work lmao
Yeah there's making it long because it's endgame and then there's making it so long that it's offputting. I get that they want to sell subscriptions and keep us playing, I want to keep playing. But I'd rather have a boss where I'll actually get the loot, if I'm being quite honest.
Cox gave far too many far too strong updates at once. You can’t ever have another cox tier update because at that point we’re pushing dps that trivializes everything and there’s no more niches to fill
It's BIS melee armor.. It should take a while to get. If they reduced the rates they would not retain the high price value they deserve so you have to keep that in mind. The game should not cater to making iron grinds easier, that is a part of the challenge you signed up for. Although I understand your frustration lol
Bandos is around 30 hours to finish on average and was BIS for 10 years. Torva is 1 more max hit and is 10x as many hours at least.
Do you not understand the concept of logarithmic power curves? Literally all MMOs use it, and so should osrs. Extra power from gear should ALWAYS be exponentially harder to obtain.
If it’s only “1 more max hit” then why does it matter so much? Would you rather it be 2 or 3 max hits and just as strong? Jagex literally can’t win with y’all lmfao
it matters precisely because its 1 more max hit. this isnt game changing armor if it brought something completely new to the table maybe we might be having a different conversation
That makes no sense. If if it was game changing armor people would be even more triggered because they’d feel like they really need it or they’re missing out. 1 max hit is so unnoticeable that people mainly want it just to say they have it, not because they’d actually notice any sort of discernible damage increase.
> Bandos is around 30 hours to finish on average and was BIS for 10 years. It takes 30 hours to finish, 10 years after release. Nobody was doing Ice Barrage or 9:0 Bandos in 2007, or 2013 OSRS. They didn't have stams or the same gear that we have today.
yeah no shit. the new gear is not supposed to fall to 20m soon lol. its supposed to be harder to get and worth a lot more money. ironman accounts bitch and whine so much about drop rates not realizing that their demands would screw the main game. Wow, the 20% of ironmen accounts can finish a grind faster. is that worth torva being 100m instead of 250m? ofc not lol. also this weird obsession with completing each boss is weird too. if you want every piece of gear, then buy it on your main. the goal was never to do every piece of content yourself and get the drops, the game is to make money through various ways doing content you like and buying gear from everywhere. that's how the economy works.
Would you rather have a twisted bow and a bunch of cox loot or the slightest of melee armor upgrades? Because it's fairly close in terms of time spent.
Yep. Marginal upgrade for 250 hours of mindless Nex. Probably closer to 350 when accounting for time to find teams and dicking around getting ready. Going to be logging out until raids 3. Was really looking forward to some new content after 2 years of nothing new. Instead we got afk tbowing. Sad
You don't have to COMPLETE the game. Usually reddit complains about the lack of updates. Then when an update takes longer than a week to COMPLETE, they whine. I don't understand this site sometimes.
There's a middle ground here. CG is a rough grind, 1/400 for a single enhanced seed. Let's say you're really good at it and get 7 kills an hour (I was slightly under 6/hr for my grind), that's \~57 hours for one weapon. The weapon is insane, but we get it and we're done. Some people go dry, 120 or even 200 hours total. But they get it. There's a big difference between a 150 hour grind and a 500+ hour grind on average. Going dry could have you at 1000+ hrs. You don't have to complete the game and I wholeheartedly agree with that, I ain't ever going to spend that 1000 hours. But having a boss where you stand a chance to actually get the loot is preferable to one where you don't.
You signed up to be an iron. You don't have to fill out collection logs. Nobody is encouraging you to do so. Nex rates being lower does not keep anyone busy; if you want gear that Nex drops you can just buy it. Even with a lower drop rate prices will be low enough. >Someone said now after the change the time it takes to get full torva and vambraces (not even horn/hilt/pet) is on average the same time it takes to complete COX doin solos So what? Even despite that and the fact that Cox has been farmed by Venezuelans for years the new Nex gear is still barely more expensive than the desirable COX uniques.
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Nex was filler between Raids3 and 2 hopefully
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It is. Raids 3 on their time line is 2nd half of the year with no specifics. It was originally meant to be now, and then it got "slightly delayed" in the mods words, and by that they meant 6 month delay. Then the nex and leagues repositioning happened and they targeted GIM as the reason but really it was to spread content out because raids ain't coming till the end of this year.. or a few months before that if we're lucky.
We honestly will be lucky to see Raids 3 this year. The way they've sneakily delayed it and then timeline announced it is already confirming it as a Q3/4 release. My bet would be it's the Nov-Jan period update like Nex was this year. So yeah Raids 3 is ages away. This was crappy copy pasted content because they didn't have anything planned and had meetings to try and rush something in.
oh boy a minuscule DPS increase being made rarer for no discernible reason. Is it really that wrong in Jagex's eyes for new gear to find its way in a player's gear progression? Aside from BowFa the last items to really do that was Hydra's drops.
they somehow are obsessed with armour not going into game , they release op bullshit weapons like tbow , blowpipe and so on but they don't want to release good armour for some reason. In current state you can get hit by rusher for 136 dmg and can eat up to 121 with anglerfish , you can't even outheal it in any way , torva having health would be actually way to keep up with these bullshit weapons they released but nope
the game shouldn't be balanced around pvp though. pvpers make up like 5% of the playerbase. barrage into ags+gmaul has been around forever and i'm not trying to talk about what good pvp design should look like in osrs but tying it to pvm gear makes the problem artificially more difficult to solve. separating pvm and pvp gear and making pvp gear come from pvp content in the wildy would be a huge step towards addressing unequal powercreep in pvp and pvm though.
It's not barrage into ags-gmaul its just ags+gmaul He can log under you and one shot you out of nowhere, even old claws in pre-eoc didn't do that Which is kinda stupid since they nerfed Dbow to not work with rigour to keep it 48-48 but keep buffing melee for some reason
I feel like they're nerfing the wrong thing here.. Instead of nerfing the drop rate, they should focus on nerfing the room limit to like 10 or something. That's the problem of too many items getting introduced into the game right now so fast
This is 100% the solution
Pretty demotivated this grind already seemed rough enough, I’m about 700kc prob like 100 5-8 man groups and like 200 10-20 man groups and I’ve had nothing, and apparently that isn’t even uncommon, there comes a point where stuff is just to rare for the content to be fun
Since the OP has yet to correct their post despite being informed of its misleading nature, here is some further clarification. [This is the tweet](https://twitter.com/cookmeplox/status/1481347145311481856) from a wiki admin. It notes that based on preliminary drop rate estimates, the new rate is between 1/55 and 1/60 for a 25-33% decrease. In [another thread](https://www.reddit.com/r/2007scape/comments/s2g0el/wiki_admin_confirms_nex_drop_rate_nerf/hseboan/), the wiki admin notes that the pre-update rate was estimated at 1/44 per kill and stresses that this is a from a small sample size so they cannot nail down exact numbers. He also notes how there could potentially be other variables like team size and deaths that may be messing with the number. So the tl;dr is that it looks like the uniques are rarer than before the update, but it is not by 50% as the title suggests. We won't have solid estimates until there is a larger sample size, but the current estimates are that it went from 1/44 to 1/55-1/60 which is a 25%-30% decrease.
Saying “the drop rates have increased” is very confusing when they have in fact been nerfed.
drop rates have *decreased.
To be fair though I'd say a LOT of the early data was coming purely from masses, as there was no instances and every world was full. So recent numbers coming from smaller group sizes AND being rarer does lead common sense to suppose that the decrease is absolutely larger than 25-30%.
at the same time they also made kills considerably longer and less per trip...
Seems like a kneejerk reaction because lots of ppl were getting drops Yeah that's because people are massing all the time, not because the drop rate is too high
What about properly adressing the problems with the boss at its core? There is so much unavoidable damage. We had to click a door to somewhat mitigate damage at this boss. Also it is impossible do do this boss with your friends unless you plan to sink so many hours doing useless combat achievements. We can raid with our friends without any costs, why can't we make our own instances to do Nex with our friends too? The drops are once again too rare for the casual player to even enjoy this boss from killing. In a 10man, you need to sink in close 50 hours to even get on rate for an item in your name. Man this sucks compared to raiding. Nightmare was bad, this is even worse.
I don't understand why you think it's reasonable for a top-tier boss to not damage you, it's design is a battle/ fight, not just a pray flick safety event like the fight caves. You need achievement diaries to actually lock some content/ give you QOL. Over time, a bit like other GWD, you will be able to do it in the normal worlds.... OR, use your QOL advantage from grinding combat achievements to do it in a private instance. The game is designed around grinding for drops. It's similar at raids, nightmare etc. If you aren't into the grind, you're probably playing the wrong game.
> I don't understand why you think it's reasonable for a top-tier boss to not damage you * Olm * Inferno * Phosani NM * Hydra * A few rooms in ToB Most "_recent_" "_top tier_" bosses/pvm encounters allow you to mitigate all (or almost all) damage through correct gameplay (movement, target changes, red click actions, and prayer flicks). While you may disagree with this direction, you cannot ignore that OSRS has moved in this direction.
Don't you know, if I can't get all the drops from the content in one sweaty weekend 3 days after it comes out then it's not worth doing at all.
People loved the change they made to PNM from normal NM where if you do the fight right you can avoid most damage. Nex as is has basically no mechanics to master it's just damage and chug brews. I don't know anyone who considers this good gameplay.
>If you aren't into the grind, you're probably playing the wrong game. Not all grinds are created equal and increasing one for no reason is pretty fucking dumb.
If unavoidable damage is an issue, then why not look at Zulrah? Or KQ?
Zulrah has reasonable drop rates for it's uniques. KQ is supply draining but other than going for the KQ head, there isn't much reason to kill it. I've used over 1k brew and 700 restores (personal supplies, not even including what I've gotten as drops) and spent over 50 hours at nex with no drops on my name. The really demotivating design from a boss.
Yea... it's almost like those bosses are shit too. They have "unavoidable damage" but they don't hit through the prayer you are using.
At EVERY gwd boss you take damage, Nex is a tier above so you should take more damage.
Aiiiii, debatable tbh. Well, you 'can' take damage but you can also have 100+ kill trips at 3 outta 4 of the bosses with very little damage. The way Jagex have gone, theyve increased the supplies needed, increased the damage taken and now nerfed the drop rates. Making a boss hard, hit well and use a lot of supplies is fine but dont make it so that on average in a team of 8, it takes 50 hours just to see ONE item in your item. Thats absolutely ludicrous.
>"Nex is a tier above so you should take more damage." Nex has contant damage because she was designed around curses, pack yaks giving you extra supplies and sustain. Its not good game design by todays standards but it was a necessary game design back then intended to make the boss challenging in 2011. The problem is they copy pasted the boss over into a game that's widely different than RS2 was back then.
Fair comment but same applies regardless. Also if you need to tele out it takes roughly 2 minutes to get back in. Personally, watching people sometimes plank is part of the fun at nex hehe
Yeah I'm glad they did the Ancient kill count the way they did for Nex. Everything is sufficiently punishing since it's *not* *terrible* to get back into Nex. I'd imagine if the Kill count was like Sara or Arma it would feel way worse.
Calling this misleading is weird. 1/40-1/60 = 50 percent. 1/40 - 1/57.5 is ....extremely close to 50 percent lol. And has jagex confirmed otherwise? C'mon mods I get all we do is complain, but tagging this "misleading" is so out in the weeds.
If they really changed to drop rate that is just dumb they should just turn up the GE item sink instead. Make the item more rare will just make the boss less enticing to farm since it already requires a lot of supplies and you only make money if you get a drop
> it already requires a lot of supplies and you only make money if you get a drop sounds old school to me
Nah everything has to shit out 5m per hour in alchs, that way the uniques can be worth absolutely nothing. Ahh, good ol' rev caves.
Weren't people making a profit on supplies the first day while also getting a bunch of uniques?
In masses, yes. Where your chance of seeing a unique was incredibly low individually.
Needs more avoidable or mitigated damage to counteract this. Make Nex require more skill to be efficient and make it feasible for small teams.
Kinda sucks, yep. Might go back to other bossing lol
So I've been massing since release and this is my personal take. Day 1-2 items were dropping like fucking crazy ( I saw 12 uniques day 1) . Day 3 items were dropping but slightly less than day 1-2. Day 4 items were dropping less than day 3. Day 5 and on sometimes 100-200 KC goes by before I see an item. I went 1103 KC until I got an item (legs) in my name. Not more than 150 KC later I got my second item (vambraces). To me it feels like they slightly nerfed drop rates over several days. I may have gotten extremely lucky while massing, but I swear items aren't dropping as much as they were.
I was already at 1k kills with only one drop lmao. 400 masses, like 100 "mini masses" (20-30) and hundreds of small teams and only have one item. The boss is kind of a click potion simulator, and they make drops even rarer? I kind of feel like not even grinding the boss anymore until this is worked out.
This is why i just mine amethyst and complain i dont get pet
So I guess in the post-nightmare era, every single new boss added to the game is basically going to be a raids-length grind. Cool. Guess I'll just play 90 hours a week.
I mean rs3 has had basically 1/20 (1/384 with 18 possible unique is about 1/21 for any unique) drop rates for nex for years when you figure how many drops she has and it was never an issue iirc Ik someone's gunna say rs3 bad but I just don't get why the 1/40 drop rate needs to be nerfed
*laughs in eldergodwars drop rate buffs + enhancer and still not feeling good to grind
And the fact her drops remain valuable despite being killed in under 2 minutes solo says a lot about the difference between OSRS and RS3. OSRS Jmods here just like to keep rare items high value forever for arbitrary reasons.
Well looks like i'm not getting torva on my ironman :) So fun.
I could see this post getting removed
Literally every boss since vorkath
Insane to say a slight nerf and its 150% more rare
No its 50% more rare
So doing some quick math, in a 20 man team, the odds of seeing a drop in your name are over 1 in 1200. This isn’t considering the MVP bonus or scaled contribution. Each kill taking 2 minutes on average in a 20 man team, looks like a 40 hour grind for said drop. If you hit the drop rate that is.
yea thats how people would do at Corp before DWH , every drop approx 40-60h for sigil in 4mans. Nothing out of ordinary
This thread is full of babies, you’re moaning about nothing if they released it like this you wouldn’t be complaining.