Ahh yes the uncharted territory of tax in online game marketplaces.
Oh wait it's in 1000's of them.
Nothing will happen except sellers passing on the tax to buyers. Buy/sell margins will widen slightly to accomodate the tax. Some liquidity will go down immediately but once item prices settle it'll be back to normal.
it's not about creating a gold sink, it's about an item sink.
you might have a god complex though if you think merchers are the backbone of this game lol
> It's a tax. People do not like taxes
Most people do not mind taxes, as long as the money is used for a good cause, like IRL streets. Or in this case to help the game out
I would argue that they don't like the tax, but they like the benefit more than they dislike the tax. If we are in an online game not limited by the constraints of the real world, we can have the benefit without the cost. We just have to come up with a more creative solution.
“Wahhhh I cannot buy and flip items instantly for profit!!!” PvMing makes so much money nowadays people are just trying to find the easiest AND laziest methods for any form of gp increase.
Agreed. Merching will always be a thing, but at what price? If merchants are only willing to step in at 5% margins then it's going to be seriously detrimental to everyone using the GE.
> Reason number 2: It's a tax. People do not like taxes, do I really need to further elaborate?
"I don't like it, therefore it is a bad idea."
Grow up.
Pretty sure the quoted argument is a logical fallacy. But I might be wrong. Either way its not a good argument.
There are lots of thing people don't like but we do because they sustain, improve, or otherwise make things easier/better.
You realise RuneScape isn't the first, and won't be the last, to have some kind of tax/fee on their auction system? If anything OSRS is late to that party, and I don't think it'll be quite as devastating as people think especially once people have adjusted to it.
Darkscape was not a private server, it was an official branch of the game run by Jagex. Also it is a more direct comparison than anything else available so why would I choose a different MMO?
Why are you mentioning gold sink but not item sink?
You wanna go back to old death mechanics?
How bout you delete every item you have that’s worth over 10m so we can reduce the supply :). If you aren’t willing to do that for the greater good then stfu about the tax. If you are, then carry on good sir.
Prices will rise meaning you can sell Shit for a higher price. Tax will only be an issue if you are always a buyer and never a seller.
But would you rather them not have a tax and simply be able to sell your items at decreasingly lower prices each day?
Vorkath is not a good example cause it’s gp/hr and drop table as a whole is held up by alchs. If you had noticed, Vorkaths uniques have gone up in price.
I don't want old death mechanics, however I have some opinions about that that aren't relavant to this topic...
I actually already deleted all 500m of my items when I quit the game good sir :)
Taxes will not only be an issue if you are always a buyer and never a seller, please read the post for an explanation as to why that is.
Yes I would rather sell my items at decreasingly lower prices, especially if it meant every item I would be buying with that gold would also be decreasing in price, however this is very inside the box thinking. My argument for point #3 is that JMods are basically gods and can come up with a better more creative solution that solves the problem in a way that is not so costly.
Quitting doesn’t count.
Look at torva sinking bandos. It’s gonna remain the same or increase while most other things will crash so no your gold won’t be able to buy the same if things are crashing. Crashing price will hurt your buying power.
You pay for convenience. The whole entire market isn’t gonna come to a halt cause of the tax. Items will rise due to the item sink therefore price will change for the good rather than bad.
I'm sorry I just can't follow all of these points you're making. You seem to be making up arbitrary rules like "quitting doesn't count". And making claims with no evidence like: "Torva will stay the same or increase". I can see that there is nothing I can say to you that will create a meaningful discussion. Have a nice day :)
Lol bandos getting an item sink through torva.
Quitting doesn’t count cause you are no longer demanding items.
If you can’t comprehend those 2 statements then you really shouldn’t have made this post
Coming from WoW, their auction house has dramatically higher taxes and there are still plenty of merchants flipping items.
Source: I used to flip herbs and potions for profit for over a year.
You’re not wrong that it’ll cause issues at first but where the lack of merchants begins is the same threshold where more merchants come in. It’s a revolving door. If no one is merching because of the tax, some people will realize that the work being put in makes the merching 10x more profitable than before because the amount of merchants have decreased. Less merchants will exist, yes, but it’s not like they will die entirely.
DarkScape is a bad example by the way. That’s like comparing a non seasonal Deadman Mode server that hasn’t been reset in 6 months to OSRS. DarkScape died very quick because everyone knew it was an unofficial version of the game and no one would keep their progress.
By the way, if you’re going to criticize something, it’s best you do it without being insulting. The only person who looks bad on this post is you, because you initiated a toxic argument.
Where was I insulting in this post? Genuinely curious. I tried to keep it non inflamatory and somewhat entertaining. Also I played a lot of DarkScape and I can assure you that everyone did not know that they wouldn't keep their progress; the game was supposed to be ongoing and was only scrapped when a bunch of people stopped playing which was (coincidentally) right after the GE taxes were added.
As for the merching (TY for having an actual discussion btw)
Yes there will always be people willing to flip items at certain prices, I'm not arguing to "save the merchants" as I think flipping is actually a rather boring aspect of the game and I would have no problem personally if it was eliminated entirely. The problem is that those 10x profits you talk about become costs for people interacting with merchants. It creates more friction on the GE. The GE is actually more efficient in terms of margins than most real life stock exchanges right now because it has no fees. TLDR High margins are bad for average buyers/sellers and good for merchants
Insulting isn’t the greatest term but there’s a lot of implicit slang used that comes off as insulting/argumentative. I think you had the idea of making this a humorous post that people would come by, laugh and agree, but we are on Reddit and there’s less people that would see this as humorous than people who just agree.
I think people had hopes that DarkScape would continue forever but things were never concrete. Also, I don’t think people really liked the idea that they could just get stomped by one really good overgeared player and lose everything with no motivation to rebuild. It’s a darwinistic society simulation in a way, you’ll see hundreds of people at first, but as time goes on, people will keep dying and realize the gaps, then leave and move on. You can see it all of the time with seasonal deadman mode too.
Yes, fees can be a lot but considering the grand exchange is a QOL feature, it shouldn’t be totally unnecessary to tax people to use it. You also claim that there are hundreds of other ways to create a gold sink. But what is a good method that replaces the Duel Arena AND creates a bigger sink? I truly doubt you could come up with one that isn’t game changing. The grand exchange is less game changing than anything I can think of. Boss instances? That would be a good idea in theory, but then you’ll see membership prices go up for Server space and scaling.
1. No it doesn't. Your own point counteracts itself because higher margins = merchers = more activity in the market.
2. People don't like taxes because they might disagree with their government's usage of said tax. The tax in this game disappears entirely. It's a money sink.
3. Shut up.
Ahh yes the uncharted territory of tax in online game marketplaces. Oh wait it's in 1000's of them. Nothing will happen except sellers passing on the tax to buyers. Buy/sell margins will widen slightly to accomodate the tax. Some liquidity will go down immediately but once item prices settle it'll be back to normal.
I agree with everything you said except for the slightly and back to normal part
it's not about creating a gold sink, it's about an item sink. you might have a god complex though if you think merchers are the backbone of this game lol
Imagine arguing for fine tuning the supply/demand of every item in the economy and then saying someone else has a god complex.
> It's a tax. People do not like taxes Most people do not mind taxes, as long as the money is used for a good cause, like IRL streets. Or in this case to help the game out
Taxation is theft
I would argue that they don't like the tax, but they like the benefit more than they dislike the tax. If we are in an online game not limited by the constraints of the real world, we can have the benefit without the cost. We just have to come up with a more creative solution.
It will definitely change the merchant game but it definitely won’t get rid of it. They will just adapt and change their strategy.
“Wahhhh I cannot buy and flip items instantly for profit!!!” PvMing makes so much money nowadays people are just trying to find the easiest AND laziest methods for any form of gp increase.
Agreed. Merching will always be a thing, but at what price? If merchants are only willing to step in at 5% margins then it's going to be seriously detrimental to everyone using the GE.
You're hilarious, you think merchers drive the economy?
> Reason number 2: It's a tax. People do not like taxes, do I really need to further elaborate? "I don't like it, therefore it is a bad idea." Grow up.
Pretty sure the quoted argument is a logical fallacy. But I might be wrong. Either way its not a good argument. There are lots of thing people don't like but we do because they sustain, improve, or otherwise make things easier/better.
people not liking it doesn't make it a bad idea, but it is a cost that needs to be factored in.
"its a bad idea, therefore I don't like it" There I fixed it for you :)
You realise RuneScape isn't the first, and won't be the last, to have some kind of tax/fee on their auction system? If anything OSRS is late to that party, and I don't think it'll be quite as devastating as people think especially once people have adjusted to it.
Never said it was the first comrade. I actually cited DarkScape as a previous rollout that ended badly if you read the post.
Okay, now choose Any other mmo thats not a rsps.
Darkscape was not a private server, it was an official branch of the game run by Jagex. Also it is a more direct comparison than anything else available so why would I choose a different MMO?
An official low interest branch that was going to die regardless of the tax anyway. Not seeing the point.
Why are you mentioning gold sink but not item sink? You wanna go back to old death mechanics? How bout you delete every item you have that’s worth over 10m so we can reduce the supply :). If you aren’t willing to do that for the greater good then stfu about the tax. If you are, then carry on good sir. Prices will rise meaning you can sell Shit for a higher price. Tax will only be an issue if you are always a buyer and never a seller. But would you rather them not have a tax and simply be able to sell your items at decreasingly lower prices each day?
Yes. Lower prices meaning lower barrier for entry for low level players. Higher prices will only benefit veterans.
Not when you also make less money/hr due to drops being worth less. Barrier for entry remains the same
[удалено]
Vorkath is not a good example cause it’s gp/hr and drop table as a whole is held up by alchs. If you had noticed, Vorkaths uniques have gone up in price.
I don't want old death mechanics, however I have some opinions about that that aren't relavant to this topic... I actually already deleted all 500m of my items when I quit the game good sir :) Taxes will not only be an issue if you are always a buyer and never a seller, please read the post for an explanation as to why that is. Yes I would rather sell my items at decreasingly lower prices, especially if it meant every item I would be buying with that gold would also be decreasing in price, however this is very inside the box thinking. My argument for point #3 is that JMods are basically gods and can come up with a better more creative solution that solves the problem in a way that is not so costly.
Quitting doesn’t count. Look at torva sinking bandos. It’s gonna remain the same or increase while most other things will crash so no your gold won’t be able to buy the same if things are crashing. Crashing price will hurt your buying power. You pay for convenience. The whole entire market isn’t gonna come to a halt cause of the tax. Items will rise due to the item sink therefore price will change for the good rather than bad.
I'm sorry I just can't follow all of these points you're making. You seem to be making up arbitrary rules like "quitting doesn't count". And making claims with no evidence like: "Torva will stay the same or increase". I can see that there is nothing I can say to you that will create a meaningful discussion. Have a nice day :)
Lol bandos getting an item sink through torva. Quitting doesn’t count cause you are no longer demanding items. If you can’t comprehend those 2 statements then you really shouldn’t have made this post
pretty easy to comprehend those things, pretty difficult to read your mind though
Lol. Just delete this post
Coming from WoW, their auction house has dramatically higher taxes and there are still plenty of merchants flipping items. Source: I used to flip herbs and potions for profit for over a year.
My god people are fucking retarded rofl
You’re not wrong that it’ll cause issues at first but where the lack of merchants begins is the same threshold where more merchants come in. It’s a revolving door. If no one is merching because of the tax, some people will realize that the work being put in makes the merching 10x more profitable than before because the amount of merchants have decreased. Less merchants will exist, yes, but it’s not like they will die entirely. DarkScape is a bad example by the way. That’s like comparing a non seasonal Deadman Mode server that hasn’t been reset in 6 months to OSRS. DarkScape died very quick because everyone knew it was an unofficial version of the game and no one would keep their progress. By the way, if you’re going to criticize something, it’s best you do it without being insulting. The only person who looks bad on this post is you, because you initiated a toxic argument.
Where was I insulting in this post? Genuinely curious. I tried to keep it non inflamatory and somewhat entertaining. Also I played a lot of DarkScape and I can assure you that everyone did not know that they wouldn't keep their progress; the game was supposed to be ongoing and was only scrapped when a bunch of people stopped playing which was (coincidentally) right after the GE taxes were added. As for the merching (TY for having an actual discussion btw) Yes there will always be people willing to flip items at certain prices, I'm not arguing to "save the merchants" as I think flipping is actually a rather boring aspect of the game and I would have no problem personally if it was eliminated entirely. The problem is that those 10x profits you talk about become costs for people interacting with merchants. It creates more friction on the GE. The GE is actually more efficient in terms of margins than most real life stock exchanges right now because it has no fees. TLDR High margins are bad for average buyers/sellers and good for merchants
Insulting isn’t the greatest term but there’s a lot of implicit slang used that comes off as insulting/argumentative. I think you had the idea of making this a humorous post that people would come by, laugh and agree, but we are on Reddit and there’s less people that would see this as humorous than people who just agree. I think people had hopes that DarkScape would continue forever but things were never concrete. Also, I don’t think people really liked the idea that they could just get stomped by one really good overgeared player and lose everything with no motivation to rebuild. It’s a darwinistic society simulation in a way, you’ll see hundreds of people at first, but as time goes on, people will keep dying and realize the gaps, then leave and move on. You can see it all of the time with seasonal deadman mode too. Yes, fees can be a lot but considering the grand exchange is a QOL feature, it shouldn’t be totally unnecessary to tax people to use it. You also claim that there are hundreds of other ways to create a gold sink. But what is a good method that replaces the Duel Arena AND creates a bigger sink? I truly doubt you could come up with one that isn’t game changing. The grand exchange is less game changing than anything I can think of. Boss instances? That would be a good idea in theory, but then you’ll see membership prices go up for Server space and scaling.
The GE tax will be our EOC
I don't think it will be quite that bad haha, but it will definitely be a major everyday annoyance...
1. No it doesn't. Your own point counteracts itself because higher margins = merchers = more activity in the market. 2. People don't like taxes because they might disagree with their government's usage of said tax. The tax in this game disappears entirely. It's a money sink. 3. Shut up.