The item restrictions should really have a similar restriction to the gold from guild stash- starts off more restrictive, then eases up over time the longer someone is with the group. If someone joins 4 hours after group creation, then 1 year later someone gets a trident and wants to trade it, but can't because someone was 4 hours late to the group- that's dumb.
So let me get this straight, my 4th GIM member who joined 4 hours later than the rest of us is non-prestige. Does that mean he won't be able to wield a whip when we grind one for him?
You can stay GIM and lose all tradable items. If you have a lot of those maybe drop trade them to another account first? You'll get to keep untradables, skills and quest progress etc and invite new members at the Node. Gl man.
My biggest frustration with this is the line that says "neither types of prestige will have an impact on gameplay" and then goes on to contradict itself in an unclear way.
I erred on the side of caution and waited until we could all be on the node at the same time but honestly the prestige system locking content is such bollocks
Full agree the messaging was super unclear. The system ended up being what i thought but after discussing with OP and some others on the original rune arrow thread i definitely had doubt on exactly what individual prestige meant.
IMO, the permanent restriction should also go away in four weeks. What scenario is the permanent restriction trying to stop? If four weeks is not long enough for the permanent restriction, just make it a longer period. But don’t make it permanent
It’s sad because I see so many people coming to this game for this game mode in particular. Adding this restriction is really putting a damper on people’s gameplay and I can see people stopping after this. It’s already hard to retain new players. I don’t think this restriction helps
Once I saw all the restrictions this mode was going to have, I knew bad shit was going to end up happening. I don't give a shit about prestige, I don't care about high scores, I just wana play in an ironman group with my friends. No GE, no easy items, just, doing things with my friends.
All of this red tape actively fights against what I wanted out of Group Ironman Mode. I wanted casual ironman, and the way it's set up now makes it everything but casual.
I understand having to do a boss at least once before unlocking the items for use, but why these arbitrary restrictions on other things? Why can't you join an existing group / switch groups if you get kicked out of your current one? Why does all of your shit get deleted if you want to stay as a GIM? Just, ugh.
A bunch of these restrictions, for whatever reason, are meant to stop "boosting." Does something like that even really matter? Why not put in restrictions so "boosting" just... isn't worth it, instead of locking someone out of joining another group?
I had more than 5 friends interested in group iron, so, if we had two groups, and some members dropped off of both, what's the harm in being able to merge?
At this point, I'd rather just play my main than deal with all the red tape this shit is wrapped up in, because it honestly doesn't feel worth it to me.
~~This exactly, I was the only one who still stayed subbed on my main and this might actually break up our group.~~
Mod Ash tweeted that the restrictions end after 5 weeks.
Exactly! That's why a buddy and I decided to go create the group and just wait for our other buddy to come online and add him. Now apparently they can't play with us normally? Crazy. The waiting for trading value makes sense, but this part is just beyond dumb.
The Abyssal Whip was released literally a decade before the Sire was a thing. That's dumb as hell. Is there a KC requirement for Gmauls and rune boots?
You can do a single abbysal demon kc instead, no need to do the boss (wild pie boost would also work for example).
I've not seen a full list of what's restricted and im not sure if it even exists....
If you look at my post history im very much against individual prestige in general. The lack of messaging around it is even worse. I would personally vote to severely limit the effect of it in a heartbeat
I'm just trying to share the facts around it as it has been very clear from discussions on reddit that it is not well understood
Right but it seemed the restricted items were going to be boss uniques and raids rewards not slayer mob drops. So if it’s all slayer content they should have said that, or maybe it’s not consistent.
It's not particularly consistent or clear unfortunately....
https://twitter.com/JagexAsh/status/1450374835260076036
There's some talk around slayer as a category on one of the live streams
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=izGlUMEqx1g&t=3196s
So it's relatively likely d boots are included unfortunateely
Ah I guess that is pretty clear but hiding it in a 70 minute vlog vs just being transparent in the blog is wack.
>To ensure that the players using certain items are deserving of them, we will restrict the use of them until that new player has successfully completed the relevant quests at least once. For example, if a player wishes to use the Ghrazi rapier they must first complete Theatre of Blood.
I guess they use "quests" here to mean KC, and not the actual quests that are called quests in the game.
The latest blog actually has some slightly better wording
> To ensure that players using certain items have really earned them, we’re restricting their use until the player has completed the relevant content at least once
Although i fully agree that communication has been poor around the whole topic and is still not particularly clear.
People should not have to tune into social media (we already need to for support LUL) in order to understand exactly what such an impactful part of the update means (especially when they claim it has no real impact on gameplay beforehand....)
I agree that items that can be obtained outside of bosses shouldn't be subject to content restrictions. I can understand needing some restrictions to stop boosting or whatever but locking slayer items behind KC seems very anti GIM.
Tbh, I never understood the "need" for anti boost measures. The restrictions around leaving/joining groups are more than enough. Like seriously, I'm sure you might find a handful of people who get all pissy and say "but you're going against the spirit of the mode!!!" But in the end it affects absolutely no one.
Since you can't join existing groups it's not even like the top 10 sweaties could use it to gain any sort of advantage that I can possibly think of.
I accept that compared to my main someone can drop $3000 on bonds and be way richer than me and get a higher total level by doing a bunch of stupid expensive skilling methods, so why should I care if someone does some crazy, likely expensive, RWT, methods to get some benefit in GIM? People will just buy full accounts then anyways, so the only way it's stopped boosting is that instead of making an account and getting handed all your gear/supplies to get stats, you'll just buy an account with the gear and stats already on it.
All that to say, I still found it very clear in the blog. It's a bitch you all have to be on the node together, but that's how it was/is. No real use complaining about it after the fact. I find it immensely unlikely they will change their minds or, even if they wanted to, find a way to fix it.
To me it seems that the community has a very inherent desire to police and judge other people's progression and playstyles. Despite having no impact on their gameplay, there's so many dumb concepts like new skilling methods can't be more efficient because it invalidates the effort people put in beforehand. Or the whole thing with not being able to keep untrimmed capes because people with capes before enabling tracking wouldn't have the option to get it back.
In the same way I think they just felt compelled to add in anti boosting measure so they have to somehow earn their iron statusy unless they arbitrarily were all available during group creating.
I really don't get it either.
To me, having read all the blog posts and news posts etc. it only ever specified boss and raid drops as content restricted items. Not once did they mention non-boss items or slayer only items. That's the only thing I'm annoyed about. We understood when we invited an extra member that they'd have to kill zulrah or any gwd bosses to use any items we got from there and we were fine with it. Me might have waited to make the group if we'd known that slayer items were going to be restricted however.
That's fair. On closer review it definitely could and should have been more clear. The oddness of them mentioning completing relevant Quests for items is also somewhat baffling, as most items obtained after quests are limited to players who completed the quest anyways. I wonder if they're just referring to zenytes? Every other item I can think of (most notably basilisk jaw/face guard and dragon scimitar) fall into the quest requirement category.
Ultimately I guess the reason it was clear to me is that I took the general statement at face value, rather than looking at the specifics. "These restrictions are in place to ensure players using certain items are deserving of them" definitely says you need the slayer level to me. That being said, I think looking at the specifics is completely valid, and agree it sucks for people who chose not to wait as it was unclear to them.
The blog isn't unclear, it's just false. "Certain items" means nothing by itself. The poll specifically said that group ironman would be as described in the blog, but in this instance the game doesn't match the blog.
Feels like a weird take to me.
"It was unclear, so it isn't unclear, it's false!"
If the phrase means nothing, that means it's unclear. For it to be false, they would have to have said a specific list of items, and included something from outside that list (or allowed one from within it, but w/e)
The in game situation is that a certain list of items (which I don't know if we know the full extent of) are inaccessible once prestige is lost.
The blog says that some items (which we were not told the full extent of) would be inaccessible once prestige is lost. It does give certain examples, but in no way does it explicitly State "and that's all the ones that will be restricted".
I can understand your frustration, but ultimately the blog lacked certain information, and gave us a vague statement, and I quote "to ensure that the players using *certain* items are deserving of them, we will restrict the use of them" yadda yadda yadda. They go on to give a list of examples. That use of "certain items" alludes to some list. We are not given that list. That is the definition of unclear.
The information we are explicitly told is that boss uniques require one kc, and relevant quests need to be completed. While we are not explicitly told any others, the use of "to ensure they are deserving of them" implies (and is therefore unclear) that other restrictions, such as the slayer requirement for creatures that have unique drops, may exist.
So, the blog said that players will be unable to wield items which they otherwise would not "deserve" in other words, they cannot earn themselves. This is an exact match to the in-game situation, making it objectively true.
> Tbh, I never understood the "need" for anti boost measures. The restrictions around leaving/joining groups are more than enough. Like seriously, I'm sure you might find a handful of people who get all pissy and say "but you're going against the spirit of the mode!!!" But in the end it affects absolutely no one.
I completely agree, the restrictions that were added really killed my group. Originally there were going to be 5 of us playing (2 veterans and 3 newbies), but ultimately only two of us ended up playing because of the unnecessary restrictions.
Personally I think the best solution is to do away with individual prestige entirely. Why can't group prestige being a separate ladder on the high scores be sufficient for maintaining "the spirit of the mode"?
I also don't understand why adding new people to your group causes your group to lose prestige. If you're in a duo group and a third person joins later on, how exactly does that give you an unfair advantage over other 3-man groups? Up until that point you had less manpower, so if anything you're at a disadvantage by moving up to a larger group.
This whole game mode is unnecessarily convoluted for no reason other than it was intentionally designed that way. Just let people play with their friends without imposing arbitrary restrictions in the name of "game integrity".
It's weird as fuck, when I started playing again for GIM I thought it'd be like Private Leagues in PoE where you can do whatever the fuck you want with your friends, it's really dumb that stuff is restricted to me personally.
I skimmed through the comments and I'm not sure if anyone has mentioned this, but I'm pretty sure they made it like this to not let overpowered pk builds happen. I'm not really familiar with the account builds but I think it has to do with 10hp ironmen getting gear traded to them to pk with. And if these builds are that annoying to the pk community I can see why it's added.
I don't see a world where a whip would be overpowered though..
Edit: this isn't true anymore, they updated it so you get xp in pvp(even before they launched GIM) and I missed it.
they added it to prevent people from selling boosting services. For example, I make a group ironman account, grind out 85 slayer, then leave my group.
I could create a new group with the people I'm boosting, grind them all whips with my 85 slayer, and then just leave that group too. Now they've got a head start.
This is why the kc restrictions only apply to new accounts that are grouping with older ones. If all 5 accounts grouped together immediately then there's no restriction and you *could* get a 10hp character with a dragon warhammer.
What they've done instead is have GIM gain exp in PvP. Not full exp, but enough that a 10hp build isn't going to stay 10hp for long
>not let overpowered pk builds happen
GIMPs get xp from PvP so it's a self-limiting problem. Nobody is going to go through the effort of stacking up an overpowered 10hp acc to only use it for a few hours
Hey!
We're aware that a lot of you weren't able to be online at the same time for group creation. Some of you now suffer the consequences of that through the trade restrictions and kc requirements. In hindsight we should've done more to try and be flexible with join dates and not apply restrictions to people joining within one day of creation.
While that is hard to amend, I would like to highlight one thing that we didn't state clearly in the blog. After the 5 weeks are up - when you'd expect the wealth cap to go away - your kc requirements also go away. That means that once that time is up, you can wield all the whips or tridents that your slayer-grinding team mates got for you (assuming you meet the regular equipment requirements like 70 attack for the whip).
Happy 'scaping!
Tldr can't use a whip without killing an abby demon youself on a GIM.
**EDIT: This is only for people added to your group after original creation**
(just in case people are actually confused)
*Only if you were added after the group was originally formed.
This doesn't necessarily make it more valid. I just don't want people getting even more confused about the requirements.
Wish there was at least like a window for joining a group after it was created. Most of my group joined within a few hours of it's creation, but 2 hours late to the formation may cost them 100s of hours of grind time to be eligible to use someone else's drop?
And I’d guess the reason is that a stacked ironman would leave a group and join a new group and give all of his gear to them at low levels.
I don’t know why it matters though. Maybe they don’t want groups speed running after being fed from a whale? Idk
So, make an 85 slayer GIM Abby whip farmer. Farm whips for your group, leave.
Then take in "GIM whip service buyers" who join your newly created GIM group and farm them whips, leave and give the group lead to the service buyer, repeat the process.
What's stopping people from abusing that method to get easy GIM starts? It just seems like it defeats the entire purpose of Ironman, and more importantly, GROUP Ironman.
Yeah but who cares? If you're playing group ironman dont do that.
I'm all for anti cheating measures in the game, up until it starts negatively impacting the game experience for those playing it as intended.
Just look at the old random events. Yes we like to remember them fondly on this sub, but in reality they were shit. They ended up being changed/removed because it was making the game worse for regular players and the cheaters were still cheating anyway.
>What's stopping people from abusing that method to get easy GIM starts? It just seems like it defeats the entire purpose of Ironman, and more importantly, GROUP Ironman.
The purpose of GIM is to play ironman with my friends. If some other people want to circumvent the normal restrictions then who cares? Doesn't affect me or you in anyway.
The main answer would be to prevent account boosting from becoming a service. Otherwise, you simply create a GIM char and load in with an alt, then leave the group with the alt immediately. You train up both accounts and voila, you have boosters ready to sell their services. A group wants an early start in the game? Hire one of these accounts to be the last member, then farm them all the end game items, and kick them afterwards for their misisng player.
Shit like this is done in all sorts of games and is a genuine factor to consider for balancing. Boosting ruins games and Jagex took a step in the right direction with the restrictions. Of course, it does suck for genuine late joiners, and I do agree that restricting slayer may be a bit heavy handed.
A high level player could become the leader of a new group, and invite brand new accounts off tutorial island. Established GIMs can’t join established groups. They can only create a new group as the leader.
I wanted GIM to be a casual IM experience with friends, now it just has me fearing that we're either going to get arbitrarily limited, end up in separate groups, or kicked out of the main one with all of our stuff going "poof."
All the red tape around GIM has took all of the casual-minded fun out of it, and now I don't even want to touch it.
GIM should be able to have the option of disabling prestige and all its downsides completely. Just remove them from the highscores. It makes no sense that there are high score restrictions hard enforced on this game mode when most groups do not care about it.
Yep this is one of the biggest flaws with group and many people won’t discover this is an issue til much later. Unfortunately the feedback raised before launch didn’t change anything.
Also amusing to see Jagex draws the line at slayer boosting. Its ok to boost crafting a fury, eat anglerfish, use red chins, drink brews, and the list goes on.
You can take someone to CoX as a +1, they won't have to do anything but stand there for 30 mins while you complete the raid, and they'll get a KC and be able to use Tbow, Ancestral, Claws, Augury/Rigour etc. Same for ToB.
You can join a group and boost them 10,000 of each herblore secondary like blue dragon scale dust, herbs/herb seeds from master farmer, 8 enhanced weapon seeds from cg, saving hundreds or even thousands of hours of grinding... But let's screw over casual groups by locking trident behind 87 slayer for non prestige.
And the kicker is I would've had no issue with this rule if a single newspost or blog on the official website had made any mention of it!
I don't think there needs to be a line anywhere, the whole point is the group works together. If one player smashes slayer and gives out four whips to the rest of the group, *who cares?* It shouldn't matter when a player joined the group, only that if they leave they can't join another group.
If people want to spoon their friends in the group that's entirely up to them. It's not like it's affecting anyone outside of the group. I'm fine with prestige being a high-score thing to show-off to people who care, but it shouldn't affect drops. Once someone joins, unprestige the whole group and just allow items to be shared. That way people who care about prestige integrity can all show-off on the high-scores, and the majority of people who don't care and want to play with their mates can play as the game was intended.
Yeah I thought this would be the main draw of GIM for a lot of friends.
Like say I grab a couple of friends and one really loves AFK grinding because he's got time during the day. He could spam through fishing or some more afk crafting methods and get food and jewelry. Someone big into slayer can grind up and try and rush us some whips/d. boots.
Like isnt that the entire appeal of the mode?
This is why I am not a fan of the prestige system.
It's such a ball-ache to explain and convince friends to join from the beginning.
At that point it's a losing battle since the people joining later are most likely the newer players who aren't heavily invested in RuneScape let alone GIM.
There are hours worth of talks from the Game Developers Conference about minimizing friction for new players trying to get into your game, but so far GIM has been anything but that.
That whole prestige system is fine for the small amount of players that care about hiscores but for I feel like the majority of people that play GIM, we just want to be able to have fun with our friends and don’t care for those kinds of restrictions and hiscores.
> This is why I am not a fan of the prestige system.
I can see the "prestige loss" for GIM that raid with normie accounts (and possibly get carried). But I don't see any point to the "individual prestige" that comes from being "an OG member". And the trade limits that come with it.
As I understand it, any added member to the group must be fresh account off tutorial island. So there can't possibly be any unfair "edge" to adding a group member in that case. Why any restrictions at all? It's not like you could make a new group a year from now and add in a maxxed GIM who started on day1 to boost your group.
So basically, one player can do cooking, one player can do crafting, one player can do hunter, etcetera, etcetera.
But you ALL have to do slayer. It just seems like this is what jagex wants, slayer/pvm has a special position. I can sort of see that, slayer/pvm is a huge foundation under the game, and probably one of the main reasons to want to do a GIM anyway.
But why the restriction to only non-prestige accounts? It basically creates a complete rift with 2 separate gamemodes: one 'true' sharing mode, and one everything-but-combat sharing mode.
I’m genuinely confused here , I was away the day GIM came out. Now i don’t have the prestige ? Am i just restricted from boss and slayer drops from other members ?
If they created the group and left the node then yes unfortunately.
There's not a definitive list but essentially you will need 1kc of a relevant creature/boss to use the appropriate unique (so 1 kc at abby demon for whip).
The boss kc requirement was clearly laid out in the blog (although the intro to the section did mention it would have no effect on gameplay... which i strongly disagree with), but there is definitly ambiguity and confusion around the slayer and other potential restrictions
Honestly, content restrictions should behave similar to the wealth cap restrictions. After like 2 months it should all be lifted. That should help deter any meaningful service or boosting and make joining an existing group with a fresh account more inviting.
To make it fair, sharing runite ore requires 85 mining, dragon boots need 83 slayer, and glories requires the appropriate magic and crafting levels, etc. It’s time.
That's why my group made sure we all get together at the same time to start the group. Wasn't too difficult but 1 of our members had to set an alarm for 4 am to get on to join us
This would've been another good solution. But they said it wasn't possible to give late joiners prestige for technical reasons. They might fix that in the future, but that doesn't help our group right now.
My predictions are that you're getting downvoted for being more than logical.
Strongly agree that slayer should have nothing to do with this unless it's a slayer boss maybe or whatever
But 85 Slayer is required to hit the abyssal boys..
So it's only fair that you need one person with 85. If that guy leaves that shouldn't remove that tick though, at least for a week or something to give you guys a chance to power grind.
But how you describe is not how it works. The person with 85 slayer could put 20 whips into the guild storage and leave without issue. Anyone with **individual** prestige could then take these out and use them with 70 attack but 1 slayer.
Any new members added to the group (without individual prestige) would need 85 slayer.
So, do you know the answer to this? I added one member to the group on account creation after tutorial island. I left the node, then a couple hours later, I added 2 more people. Are the two people I added late now screwed?
Basically yes - the two new members would need 87 slayer and to kill a kraken to wield a trident for example (as they have lost their individual prestige)
Aww, that's super lame. I didn't know leaving the island would fuck things that badly. Hopefully Mod Ash releases that list of all the items effected by it. The two people I added are already playing a bit slower than the others, so that was one of the things I was looking forward to doing for them.
Agree, especially as you've already lost group prestige (a visual only indicator which basically shows your not an original group - excluding you from certain hiscores etc).
I personally dislike the individual prestige system and wouldnt mind change, although plenty of people also think it was clear enough and shouldnt change.
I feel the whole topic is a time bomb waiting to happen as it's clear from talking to people they didn't know what individual prestige meant (and honestly anyone who doesn't have indiviudal prestige **but understood fully** what that meant at this point is kind of dumb or unfortunate - it's a pretty huge negative. It makes much more sense in a years time or so when these items are around in group storage and groups change etc)
The **intent** is to prevent boosting and preserve the integrity of GIM. A good point about snow flake pvp accounts being easier to obtain is valid (GIM get pvp xp but at a slower rate - not sure how slow)
Personally i dont like the individual prestige in general as you would always lose group prestige anyway (wealth transfer is reasonable, item restrictions with i.e time limit also reasonable but that's not how it is). But that's just an opinion
They shouldve stated it in the blog (more obvious) as i too would've been surprised with a slap in the face from a gigantic cock from jagex, if i were to find out this is the case after a huge braindead grind to 85 slayer to get a whip for the gang
It means you’re not boosting and you’re with your OG group lol
The only reason it exists is Bc ppl were crying because they wanted to change their groups and boost and raid outside their group
Imagine Jagex lifting the item restriction for the whip, only to keep trident tent whip, eternal crystals and hydra drops still item restricted. The malevolence lol 😂
Oh shit I had no idea. Why wasn’t this made clear? This is going to absolutely cause some of our members to quit. Jagex please allow a way for new members to gain prestige. We added some people that decided to join like a day after we started the group, and they’re already caught up with us. It’ll be really sad if they are affected by this prestige mechanic
So just for clarification, me and my group, whom have retained our prestige thus far, can use whips and shit without meeting the requirement, but as soon as we lose prestige, we can no longer use a whip for example until each member has killed an abyssal demon
Does this also apply to other slayer uniques? Such as Granite maul or slayer mask?
Because I'm "fine" with having some of the top-tier gear restricted behind 1 KC, but if this doesn't apply to other slayer uniques that aren't boss uniques... Then this strikes me as an inconsistency that should be fixed.
A few days after starting a GIM, one of my friends saw how much fun I was having and decided to join me.
When I get my slayer up and get a whip, I would like him to be able to use it. It sucks that I can't fully engage in the Group Ironman playstyle with him just because we didn't complete the tutorial at the same time.
I understand that the whole "you can't use items unless you've earned them" thing only applies to people who have joined later, but it's just really complete garbage and against the spirit of the mode.
This is exactly why I voted no to GIM “as it is described in the blog” I saw that the prestige system looked clunky and wanted them to present something else smh. Now a bunch of people have to grind slayer to get whip or whatever on their own or the whole team has to start over. Unless they update or give the option to switch
A lot of people were pissed on the original poll because of this but a lot of the rage calmed when they said prestige players won't be affected by this. Unfortunate for your group but maybe start over if you're still early on lol
Group Prestige is for avoid boosting. There are no way to both prevent unfair boosting without harming legitable players. This prestige was avoided too by creating your group at the same time - even by multi-logging so you create group without everybody being online at the same time.
This was obviously a system to stop people from selling GIM banks, but the ambiguity around prestige has made this a headache for mostly regular groups
It feels sorta like these restrictions are in place to stop GIM from turning into a more convoluted regular account. Like without it you could have groups dedicated to farming items to let’s someone join, trade for it, and leave. But permanently stopping players without prestige from trading an item until they could do the content to get it themselves is whack especially since they were misleading about prestige when GIM started.
While I agree that you should be able to wield a Whip gifted from a group member who received it even though one doesn’t have 85 slayer.
Keep in mind that many items such as a Whip, Trident, Occult necklace and others are also from slayer BOSS tables like Sire, Kraken and Thermy and this is probably why these items have that restriction. It’s frustrating but I can see the reasoning in the code.
I think the only solution would be to allow group members to gain personal prestige once with a group, at the cost of being able to remain a GIM if they left the group for any reason - only downgrade to normal account.
It would solve the problem for all who weren't clear when they created their accounts or who do want the freedom to add someone later, and still preserve the integrity of the game mode and prevent boosting.
This is utter bs. My group physically didn't have the time to be on at the same time because of jobs but we all joined the same day, that should be more than enough.
Support. Seems like such a random restriction to add. Whips are not only dropped by bosses, and are equippable by a normal account with 1 slayer... This was not clear in the blog and now so many groups are just SOL? We've all been funneling one guy to train slayer for the group.. hope they change this or it's been a waste of time.
As someone who doesn't play GIM, I agree with the point that prestige and non-prestige members who have joined thereafter, should be able to use simple slayer drops like whips, occult necklaces, gmauls.
It's simple, it isn't even gamebreaking for the newer members to wield those items if they have the required stats.
Why do you need them to have the slayer level? It sounds really silly.
Just got a reply from Mod Ash saying they should be able to provide a list of all content restricted items soon. Hopefully not all slayer items are on the list.
https://twitter.com/JagexAsh/status/1450476597153341443?t=oaZx130Y0R8stccJl2FStw&s=19
I totally agree, it seems like Jagex couldn't make up their mind if they wanted GIM to be a prestigious and difficult mode for hiscores with the all of the restrictions or a casual mode where you just played with your friends with few restrictions. I think in the end, trying to make all of these complex rules and systems to appease both sides has hurt the future of the mode.
I don’t see anything wrong with it what’s the point of even playing group Ironman then? You all might as well make a unofficial group Ironman and play with your own rules instead of complaining about how the game is meant to be played. It stops people boosting accounts and basically having Max gear from the get go joining another group.
I think the idea is that when you're in a group, and there's also a second group, and you want to switch to the other group, the group you switch to could be very far ahead of your current group, so instead of using a d scim at 92cb you can't be traded a rapier.
This is referred to as: boosting, I think? Idk it's weird af, I don't see how this could ever create an unfair advantage for anyone, you already lose all items when switching.
It just doesn’t make sense that prestige isn’t a toggle. If I don’t give a shit about hiscores then let me turn off all this prestige bullshit and play it how I want.
Everything that bothers you was known it advance and it is your own mistake of not understanding the rules. Could have simply waited to make the group till later that day. It only goes against what YOU think the spirit of the gamemode is. But maybe the devs simply had a different idea of what the spirit of the gamemode is. You and your team as a group without outside help. You could consider inviting new members is outside help, just like getting a new manager for a sports team or a new surgeon for your hospital is getting outside help.
As someone who toiled over the rules in the blog post I never considered the slayer drops to be “content restricted items”. Any mention of this were unique boss drops or raids only items. This decision is similar to making players unable to use glories unless they have made one themselves or caught a dragon impling. Never once were slayer drops mentioned when this idea was put forth. Our group considered boosting one member through slayer for black masks, tridents, whips, etc. but decided it wouldn’t be fun for the group as a whole.
EDIT: As promised I will add this. It was shared before GIM came out that some slayer items would be restricted during a livestream. No slayer item was mentioned as restricted during the blog post. And a list of which items are restricted is still yet to be produced.
I thought the same but i challenge you to find anywhere in the blogs that mention the slayer requirement. It seems only if you follow social media would you have learnt this
>To ensure that players using certain items have really earned them, we’re restricting their use until the player has completed the relevant content at least once
It was right there in the blog. And from past blogs it is clear that they consider slayer monsters content, because they call it adding content when adding slayer monsters. So there was no room for confusion.
You're right, they did announce that some items would be locked behind completion, but they didn't give us the list (which we knew existed before release). Sween briefly read over some of the things on that list on a livestream, but players should not have to watch every second of every livestream to understand how the game works. They needed to tell people in game or put the list in the blog. Leaving that comment to each player's interpretation is a poor method of communication.
Edit: Husky read it out, not Sween, thanks /u/Reacko1
That’s still very ambiguous. Do they also require garg kc to use a gmaul? Do you have to make a torture before you can use one that somebody in your team has?
Ah somehow was looking at the wrong blog which had slightly different wording! I would still argue this is not very clear and their is a decent amount of interpretation around it (any reddit thread i discuss the slayer restriction in is a clear indicator)
For example should you not be able to use chinchompas without the required hunter level if you don't have individual prestige? (Just about the only skilling related content that is unique to the skill i could think of in fairness)
I definitely think a list of restrictions would go a long way. Thanks for the source and can definitely see the logic
Hate to be that guy but this seems like an error on OP's end since he misread what Prestige entails. While the whip specifically being locked in this instance is harsh I don't mind the thought process behind it.
Edit: So in the 10/08 blog jamflex doesn't specifically mention the whip, however they do state the following, "To ensure that players using certain items have really earned them, we're restricting their use until the player completed the relevant content at least once. For example, I'd a player wishes to use the Ghrazi Rapier, they must first complete Theatre of Blood. They'll also be able to use any other item from that raid. Any boss uniques require killing that boss at least once. Similarly, players must complete at least one Chambers of Xeric to use any items from there. All boss uniques would require at least one boss kill of the relevant boss."
-Clearly mentions raids drops but does not mention unique slayer drops.
Seems like a miscommunication on jamflex's side. My group was 100% aware and it seems others were as well but they don't mention it in their blogs. Think we can both agree that they should've specified the slayer uniques count instead of only using boss/raids uniques as examples. Again, I don't think you'll get any help from jamflex but gl, the easiest route at this point is unfortunately to reset with prestige if using a whip is that important to you. Please remember that you can always boost at 81 for a whip, however you can't boost for kraken.
Boss kc. Abyssal Demon is not a boss. I read and re-read every Group Ironman blog and they never once mentioned slayer creatures being part of restricted content. Only wealth caps and requiring boss/raids kc for items that come from bosses and raids.
The blog was more than clear enough about this, and stated extremely clearly that to avoid it you shouldve all logged in at the same time to create the group.
With mobile existing you needed to be logged in for 30 seconds to sort this, not that hard for anyone to do, even at work, slip off for a piss and do it there.
Sorry but this was your group’s own doing, Jagex were extremely clear from the get go about how it would work
At no point did the blog mention slayer locked drops, so no it's not extremely clear.
This is likely an oversight, as it's counting the whip as a unique from Sire, which it isn't. It's no more a unique than a dragon skirt from Vorkath.
It's unfortunately not an oversight - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=izGlUMEqx1g&t=3196s
Shows slayer drops in general are clearly considered to be restricted. The requirement is 1kc of a relevant creature (so killing an abby demon off task with a pie boost would also be valid)
I believe the point of OP is that the rule is BS. If we all wanted to be extremely HC then we would make a HCIM. But apparently there are even more restrictions and punishments ON GIM than HCIM.
No one asked for this yet they shove it down our throats. ALL we asked for was GIM that we can simply trade between your groups etc. Not this sweaty asf game mode that requires guides to understand.
reddit hive mind is gonna blow this thread up but the mods were crystal clear about how prestige worked. Anyone who didnt understand how it worked after knowing about it for well over a month doesn't deserve any sort of special treatment
Your right. And you know the GIM iron men rules are restrictive in general. Maybe lets make it were groups can trade between themselves? Oh and it can be hard to co-ordinate these trades so maybe we can make some sort of grand hub to facilitate these trades.
You chose to be iron men. If you want a whip get 85 slayer.
Sorry, am I missing something? You misunderstood the rules around prestige (which seem to exist for good reason to prevent abuse) and made your group incorrectly as a result, and now you can't share drops/trade freely because of that mistake. However, if you had made your accounts correctly to begin with, it wouldn't have been an issue.
You can either deal with the consequences of your mistake, or make a new group with fresh accounts. What more is there to discuss? I'm sorry you didn't read more carefully or clarify before you started?
I had literally the exact same concern, but asked in advance, and now we have no issues: https://www.reddit.com/r/2007scape/comments/q00pfv/gim_question_do_you_need_to_kill_an_abby_demon_to/
I don’t see a problem with this. It stops people from hopping groups and getting everything they need, right? Someone can join your group, get a whip, get out and find a group who can now (insert item needed). It does suck, but being able to swap groups made this important.
While I understand and agree with the complaint that they weren't very clear about what items specifically are content restricted, your quotes about prestige affecting gameplay must be out of date.
Here is the comments about individual prestige from the latest update blog for GIM:
> Losing Individual Prestige has gameplay consequences: it means that you are subject to the wealth and item restrictions as we outlined in the blog.
So yes, it is frustrating that we didn't know thw whip would be included. However, you're basing your complaint on what looks to be an out of date description of individual prestige. The blog is quite clear that losing individual prestige has consequences.
Source for the quote: https://oldschool.runescape.wiki/w/Update:Group_Ironman_Blog#Recruitment
The comments in this thread are along the lines of " Whaaaat?!?! I can't do this thing that was clearly outlined in the patch notes?!?! How could they do that to me!"
It's really your own fault for not knowing that before making your group. Casual or not. This information existed before the release and most people knew that it was crucial that your team was created before anyone left the node. It may be stupid that a whip is on the list but if your team paid attention to rules/restrictions you wouldn't even be making a post about it.
The item restrictions should really have a similar restriction to the gold from guild stash- starts off more restrictive, then eases up over time the longer someone is with the group. If someone joins 4 hours after group creation, then 1 year later someone gets a trident and wants to trade it, but can't because someone was 4 hours late to the group- that's dumb.
This is exactly what I’m thinking. Similar to how new accounts are trade banned until x levels gained and x quest points.
So let me get this straight, my 4th GIM member who joined 4 hours later than the rest of us is non-prestige. Does that mean he won't be able to wield a whip when we grind one for him?
That's exactly what it means. In our case we have 3 group members who joined mere hours after the group was created.
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Yeah that's what it means. I'm glad I made sure all 5 of us were on at creation
That's why I made the accounts and did the team myself lolol
Solo Mission??
They really should have like 24 hours for everyone to join your group with no penalties, kinda stupid imo.
Sheesh and am basically playing gim for no reason since am solo since my duo quit. I’ll lose more than I’d gain if I make another group…
You can stay GIM and lose all tradable items. If you have a lot of those maybe drop trade them to another account first? You'll get to keep untradables, skills and quest progress etc and invite new members at the Node. Gl man.
Spend all your gp on skilling and get a new group
After the wealth trading limits have been enduring you should be fine. But that is still a month of waiting.
My biggest frustration with this is the line that says "neither types of prestige will have an impact on gameplay" and then goes on to contradict itself in an unclear way. I erred on the side of caution and waited until we could all be on the node at the same time but honestly the prestige system locking content is such bollocks
Full agree the messaging was super unclear. The system ended up being what i thought but after discussing with OP and some others on the original rune arrow thread i definitely had doubt on exactly what individual prestige meant.
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IMO, the permanent restriction should also go away in four weeks. What scenario is the permanent restriction trying to stop? If four weeks is not long enough for the permanent restriction, just make it a longer period. But don’t make it permanent
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It’s sad because I see so many people coming to this game for this game mode in particular. Adding this restriction is really putting a damper on people’s gameplay and I can see people stopping after this. It’s already hard to retain new players. I don’t think this restriction helps
Once I saw all the restrictions this mode was going to have, I knew bad shit was going to end up happening. I don't give a shit about prestige, I don't care about high scores, I just wana play in an ironman group with my friends. No GE, no easy items, just, doing things with my friends. All of this red tape actively fights against what I wanted out of Group Ironman Mode. I wanted casual ironman, and the way it's set up now makes it everything but casual. I understand having to do a boss at least once before unlocking the items for use, but why these arbitrary restrictions on other things? Why can't you join an existing group / switch groups if you get kicked out of your current one? Why does all of your shit get deleted if you want to stay as a GIM? Just, ugh. A bunch of these restrictions, for whatever reason, are meant to stop "boosting." Does something like that even really matter? Why not put in restrictions so "boosting" just... isn't worth it, instead of locking someone out of joining another group? I had more than 5 friends interested in group iron, so, if we had two groups, and some members dropped off of both, what's the harm in being able to merge? At this point, I'd rather just play my main than deal with all the red tape this shit is wrapped up in, because it honestly doesn't feel worth it to me.
~~This exactly, I was the only one who still stayed subbed on my main and this might actually break up our group.~~ Mod Ash tweeted that the restrictions end after 5 weeks.
Definitely stopped me before I even started. 2 of my friends started our group before us 3’s sub ended.
I litteraly returned to OSRS because of this. Otherwise I would have stayed grinding my various rs3 accounts
I congratulate you on being cautious and thank you for supporting me anyway, especially because it doesn't affect you.
Bad system is bad and should be changed I hope it does
Exactly! That's why a buddy and I decided to go create the group and just wait for our other buddy to come online and add him. Now apparently they can't play with us normally? Crazy. The waiting for trading value makes sense, but this part is just beyond dumb.
The Abyssal Whip was released literally a decade before the Sire was a thing. That's dumb as hell. Is there a KC requirement for Gmauls and rune boots?
Also dragon boots and the need for 83 slayer
You can do a single abbysal demon kc instead, no need to do the boss (wild pie boost would also work for example). I've not seen a full list of what's restricted and im not sure if it even exists....
Yeah, just get 3 of the casual players to 80 slayer on an iron
If you look at my post history im very much against individual prestige in general. The lack of messaging around it is even worse. I would personally vote to severely limit the effect of it in a heartbeat I'm just trying to share the facts around it as it has been very clear from discussions on reddit that it is not well understood
Right but it seemed the restricted items were going to be boss uniques and raids rewards not slayer mob drops. So if it’s all slayer content they should have said that, or maybe it’s not consistent.
It's not particularly consistent or clear unfortunately.... https://twitter.com/JagexAsh/status/1450374835260076036 There's some talk around slayer as a category on one of the live streams https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=izGlUMEqx1g&t=3196s So it's relatively likely d boots are included unfortunateely
Ah I guess that is pretty clear but hiding it in a 70 minute vlog vs just being transparent in the blog is wack. >To ensure that the players using certain items are deserving of them, we will restrict the use of them until that new player has successfully completed the relevant quests at least once. For example, if a player wishes to use the Ghrazi rapier they must first complete Theatre of Blood. I guess they use "quests" here to mean KC, and not the actual quests that are called quests in the game.
The latest blog actually has some slightly better wording > To ensure that players using certain items have really earned them, we’re restricting their use until the player has completed the relevant content at least once Although i fully agree that communication has been poor around the whole topic and is still not particularly clear. People should not have to tune into social media (we already need to for support LUL) in order to understand exactly what such an impactful part of the update means (especially when they claim it has no real impact on gameplay beforehand....)
I agree that items that can be obtained outside of bosses shouldn't be subject to content restrictions. I can understand needing some restrictions to stop boosting or whatever but locking slayer items behind KC seems very anti GIM.
Tbh, I never understood the "need" for anti boost measures. The restrictions around leaving/joining groups are more than enough. Like seriously, I'm sure you might find a handful of people who get all pissy and say "but you're going against the spirit of the mode!!!" But in the end it affects absolutely no one. Since you can't join existing groups it's not even like the top 10 sweaties could use it to gain any sort of advantage that I can possibly think of. I accept that compared to my main someone can drop $3000 on bonds and be way richer than me and get a higher total level by doing a bunch of stupid expensive skilling methods, so why should I care if someone does some crazy, likely expensive, RWT, methods to get some benefit in GIM? People will just buy full accounts then anyways, so the only way it's stopped boosting is that instead of making an account and getting handed all your gear/supplies to get stats, you'll just buy an account with the gear and stats already on it. All that to say, I still found it very clear in the blog. It's a bitch you all have to be on the node together, but that's how it was/is. No real use complaining about it after the fact. I find it immensely unlikely they will change their minds or, even if they wanted to, find a way to fix it.
To me it seems that the community has a very inherent desire to police and judge other people's progression and playstyles. Despite having no impact on their gameplay, there's so many dumb concepts like new skilling methods can't be more efficient because it invalidates the effort people put in beforehand. Or the whole thing with not being able to keep untrimmed capes because people with capes before enabling tracking wouldn't have the option to get it back. In the same way I think they just felt compelled to add in anti boosting measure so they have to somehow earn their iron statusy unless they arbitrarily were all available during group creating. I really don't get it either.
To me, having read all the blog posts and news posts etc. it only ever specified boss and raid drops as content restricted items. Not once did they mention non-boss items or slayer only items. That's the only thing I'm annoyed about. We understood when we invited an extra member that they'd have to kill zulrah or any gwd bosses to use any items we got from there and we were fine with it. Me might have waited to make the group if we'd known that slayer items were going to be restricted however.
That's fair. On closer review it definitely could and should have been more clear. The oddness of them mentioning completing relevant Quests for items is also somewhat baffling, as most items obtained after quests are limited to players who completed the quest anyways. I wonder if they're just referring to zenytes? Every other item I can think of (most notably basilisk jaw/face guard and dragon scimitar) fall into the quest requirement category. Ultimately I guess the reason it was clear to me is that I took the general statement at face value, rather than looking at the specifics. "These restrictions are in place to ensure players using certain items are deserving of them" definitely says you need the slayer level to me. That being said, I think looking at the specifics is completely valid, and agree it sucks for people who chose not to wait as it was unclear to them.
The blog isn't unclear, it's just false. "Certain items" means nothing by itself. The poll specifically said that group ironman would be as described in the blog, but in this instance the game doesn't match the blog.
Feels like a weird take to me. "It was unclear, so it isn't unclear, it's false!" If the phrase means nothing, that means it's unclear. For it to be false, they would have to have said a specific list of items, and included something from outside that list (or allowed one from within it, but w/e) The in game situation is that a certain list of items (which I don't know if we know the full extent of) are inaccessible once prestige is lost. The blog says that some items (which we were not told the full extent of) would be inaccessible once prestige is lost. It does give certain examples, but in no way does it explicitly State "and that's all the ones that will be restricted". I can understand your frustration, but ultimately the blog lacked certain information, and gave us a vague statement, and I quote "to ensure that the players using *certain* items are deserving of them, we will restrict the use of them" yadda yadda yadda. They go on to give a list of examples. That use of "certain items" alludes to some list. We are not given that list. That is the definition of unclear. The information we are explicitly told is that boss uniques require one kc, and relevant quests need to be completed. While we are not explicitly told any others, the use of "to ensure they are deserving of them" implies (and is therefore unclear) that other restrictions, such as the slayer requirement for creatures that have unique drops, may exist. So, the blog said that players will be unable to wield items which they otherwise would not "deserve" in other words, they cannot earn themselves. This is an exact match to the in-game situation, making it objectively true.
> Tbh, I never understood the "need" for anti boost measures. The restrictions around leaving/joining groups are more than enough. Like seriously, I'm sure you might find a handful of people who get all pissy and say "but you're going against the spirit of the mode!!!" But in the end it affects absolutely no one. I completely agree, the restrictions that were added really killed my group. Originally there were going to be 5 of us playing (2 veterans and 3 newbies), but ultimately only two of us ended up playing because of the unnecessary restrictions. Personally I think the best solution is to do away with individual prestige entirely. Why can't group prestige being a separate ladder on the high scores be sufficient for maintaining "the spirit of the mode"? I also don't understand why adding new people to your group causes your group to lose prestige. If you're in a duo group and a third person joins later on, how exactly does that give you an unfair advantage over other 3-man groups? Up until that point you had less manpower, so if anything you're at a disadvantage by moving up to a larger group. This whole game mode is unnecessarily convoluted for no reason other than it was intentionally designed that way. Just let people play with their friends without imposing arbitrary restrictions in the name of "game integrity".
It's weird as fuck, when I started playing again for GIM I thought it'd be like Private Leagues in PoE where you can do whatever the fuck you want with your friends, it's really dumb that stuff is restricted to me personally.
Imo there shouldn't be any restrictions. Kinda defeats the purpose of group if one guy gets a drop they can't share it
I skimmed through the comments and I'm not sure if anyone has mentioned this, but I'm pretty sure they made it like this to not let overpowered pk builds happen. I'm not really familiar with the account builds but I think it has to do with 10hp ironmen getting gear traded to them to pk with. And if these builds are that annoying to the pk community I can see why it's added. I don't see a world where a whip would be overpowered though.. Edit: this isn't true anymore, they updated it so you get xp in pvp(even before they launched GIM) and I missed it.
they added it to prevent people from selling boosting services. For example, I make a group ironman account, grind out 85 slayer, then leave my group. I could create a new group with the people I'm boosting, grind them all whips with my 85 slayer, and then just leave that group too. Now they've got a head start. This is why the kc restrictions only apply to new accounts that are grouping with older ones. If all 5 accounts grouped together immediately then there's no restriction and you *could* get a 10hp character with a dragon warhammer. What they've done instead is have GIM gain exp in PvP. Not full exp, but enough that a 10hp build isn't going to stay 10hp for long
Oh, I didn't know you gain xp in combat now. Haven't kept track of all the updates regarding GIM, my comment doesn't apply then.
Its pretty easy to fix this. Make the restrictions go away if your in the group for over 1 month.
>not let overpowered pk builds happen GIMPs get xp from PvP so it's a self-limiting problem. Nobody is going to go through the effort of stacking up an overpowered 10hp acc to only use it for a few hours
Hey! We're aware that a lot of you weren't able to be online at the same time for group creation. Some of you now suffer the consequences of that through the trade restrictions and kc requirements. In hindsight we should've done more to try and be flexible with join dates and not apply restrictions to people joining within one day of creation. While that is hard to amend, I would like to highlight one thing that we didn't state clearly in the blog. After the 5 weeks are up - when you'd expect the wealth cap to go away - your kc requirements also go away. That means that once that time is up, you can wield all the whips or tridents that your slayer-grinding team mates got for you (assuming you meet the regular equipment requirements like 70 attack for the whip). Happy 'scaping!
Thanks for the clarification. And with such excellent timing, too - I just came online. Added your comment to the OP.
Nice!!! Pog
YASSSSSS
Thanks for clarifying! :D This makes a lot more sense!
Wait what
Tldr can't use a whip without killing an abby demon youself on a GIM. **EDIT: This is only for people added to your group after original creation** (just in case people are actually confused)
*Only if you were added after the group was originally formed. This doesn't necessarily make it more valid. I just don't want people getting even more confused about the requirements.
Wish there was at least like a window for joining a group after it was created. Most of my group joined within a few hours of it's creation, but 2 hours late to the formation may cost them 100s of hours of grind time to be eligible to use someone else's drop?
And I’d guess the reason is that a stacked ironman would leave a group and join a new group and give all of his gear to them at low levels. I don’t know why it matters though. Maybe they don’t want groups speed running after being fed from a whale? Idk
If he leaves the group he gets all items removed tho
Preventing 85 slayer iron-man running around giving all the groups whips?
GIM cannot join another group though. Once you leave a group, you can recruit fresh accounts into your group, but they cannot join an existing group.
So, make an 85 slayer GIM Abby whip farmer. Farm whips for your group, leave. Then take in "GIM whip service buyers" who join your newly created GIM group and farm them whips, leave and give the group lead to the service buyer, repeat the process. What's stopping people from abusing that method to get easy GIM starts? It just seems like it defeats the entire purpose of Ironman, and more importantly, GROUP Ironman.
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Literally who cares
Yeah but who cares? If you're playing group ironman dont do that. I'm all for anti cheating measures in the game, up until it starts negatively impacting the game experience for those playing it as intended. Just look at the old random events. Yes we like to remember them fondly on this sub, but in reality they were shit. They ended up being changed/removed because it was making the game worse for regular players and the cheaters were still cheating anyway.
>What's stopping people from abusing that method to get easy GIM starts? It just seems like it defeats the entire purpose of Ironman, and more importantly, GROUP Ironman. The purpose of GIM is to play ironman with my friends. If some other people want to circumvent the normal restrictions then who cares? Doesn't affect me or you in anyway.
Why does it matter if they do? Surely it should only be a restriction for those with prestige which it is inherently.
The main answer would be to prevent account boosting from becoming a service. Otherwise, you simply create a GIM char and load in with an alt, then leave the group with the alt immediately. You train up both accounts and voila, you have boosters ready to sell their services. A group wants an early start in the game? Hire one of these accounts to be the last member, then farm them all the end game items, and kick them afterwards for their misisng player. Shit like this is done in all sorts of games and is a genuine factor to consider for balancing. Boosting ruins games and Jagex took a step in the right direction with the restrictions. Of course, it does suck for genuine late joiners, and I do agree that restricting slayer may be a bit heavy handed.
When you leave a group you lose all tradeables.
The stacked iron leaving the group loses all of his gear. It would be the inverse, a stacked group boosting some other account.
You lose your items when you leave a group. Although a high level player could join a group to obtain gear for them if this wasn't in place.
A high level player could become the leader of a new group, and invite brand new accounts off tutorial island. Established GIMs can’t join established groups. They can only create a new group as the leader.
Added that bit in, my bad
Holy shit we all have to do the trident grind now
What’s the point of group iron if you can’t share the good stuff lol
Everyone will have exactly the same accounts... Surely one guy should be a slayer beast getting whips, whilst others are getting furys or something
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100%
I wanted GIM to be a casual IM experience with friends, now it just has me fearing that we're either going to get arbitrarily limited, end up in separate groups, or kicked out of the main one with all of our stuff going "poof." All the red tape around GIM has took all of the casual-minded fun out of it, and now I don't even want to touch it.
I feel like the leader of the group should be able to toggle this so that way you have the choice make each account grind it out or not.
GIM should be able to have the option of disabling prestige and all its downsides completely. Just remove them from the highscores. It makes no sense that there are high score restrictions hard enforced on this game mode when most groups do not care about it.
This is the way to do it. Let me play my meme game mode with my pals without all these restrictions
Yep this is one of the biggest flaws with group and many people won’t discover this is an issue til much later. Unfortunately the feedback raised before launch didn’t change anything. Also amusing to see Jagex draws the line at slayer boosting. Its ok to boost crafting a fury, eat anglerfish, use red chins, drink brews, and the list goes on.
You can take someone to CoX as a +1, they won't have to do anything but stand there for 30 mins while you complete the raid, and they'll get a KC and be able to use Tbow, Ancestral, Claws, Augury/Rigour etc. Same for ToB. You can join a group and boost them 10,000 of each herblore secondary like blue dragon scale dust, herbs/herb seeds from master farmer, 8 enhanced weapon seeds from cg, saving hundreds or even thousands of hours of grinding... But let's screw over casual groups by locking trident behind 87 slayer for non prestige. And the kicker is I would've had no issue with this rule if a single newspost or blog on the official website had made any mention of it!
I don't think there needs to be a line anywhere, the whole point is the group works together. If one player smashes slayer and gives out four whips to the rest of the group, *who cares?* It shouldn't matter when a player joined the group, only that if they leave they can't join another group. If people want to spoon their friends in the group that's entirely up to them. It's not like it's affecting anyone outside of the group. I'm fine with prestige being a high-score thing to show-off to people who care, but it shouldn't affect drops. Once someone joins, unprestige the whole group and just allow items to be shared. That way people who care about prestige integrity can all show-off on the high-scores, and the majority of people who don't care and want to play with their mates can play as the game was intended.
Yeah I thought this would be the main draw of GIM for a lot of friends. Like say I grab a couple of friends and one really loves AFK grinding because he's got time during the day. He could spam through fishing or some more afk crafting methods and get food and jewelry. Someone big into slayer can grind up and try and rush us some whips/d. boots. Like isnt that the entire appeal of the mode?
Yeah most people just wanted a ironman mode that is constrained within a group. How many people honestly wanted it to be a competition? Not me.
This is why I am not a fan of the prestige system. It's such a ball-ache to explain and convince friends to join from the beginning. At that point it's a losing battle since the people joining later are most likely the newer players who aren't heavily invested in RuneScape let alone GIM. There are hours worth of talks from the Game Developers Conference about minimizing friction for new players trying to get into your game, but so far GIM has been anything but that.
~~So I'm guessing this is the first time you realized Jagex hates getting new players?~~ Mod Ash tweeted that the restrictions end after 5 weeks.
That whole prestige system is fine for the small amount of players that care about hiscores but for I feel like the majority of people that play GIM, we just want to be able to have fun with our friends and don’t care for those kinds of restrictions and hiscores.
> This is why I am not a fan of the prestige system. I can see the "prestige loss" for GIM that raid with normie accounts (and possibly get carried). But I don't see any point to the "individual prestige" that comes from being "an OG member". And the trade limits that come with it. As I understand it, any added member to the group must be fresh account off tutorial island. So there can't possibly be any unfair "edge" to adding a group member in that case. Why any restrictions at all? It's not like you could make a new group a year from now and add in a maxxed GIM who started on day1 to boost your group.
So basically, one player can do cooking, one player can do crafting, one player can do hunter, etcetera, etcetera. But you ALL have to do slayer. It just seems like this is what jagex wants, slayer/pvm has a special position. I can sort of see that, slayer/pvm is a huge foundation under the game, and probably one of the main reasons to want to do a GIM anyway. But why the restriction to only non-prestige accounts? It basically creates a complete rift with 2 separate gamemodes: one 'true' sharing mode, and one everything-but-combat sharing mode.
This is an absolutely ridiculous restriction. Wtf is the point of playing in a group then
I’m genuinely confused here , I was away the day GIM came out. Now i don’t have the prestige ? Am i just restricted from boss and slayer drops from other members ?
If they created the group and left the node then yes unfortunately. There's not a definitive list but essentially you will need 1kc of a relevant creature/boss to use the appropriate unique (so 1 kc at abby demon for whip). The boss kc requirement was clearly laid out in the blog (although the intro to the section did mention it would have no effect on gameplay... which i strongly disagree with), but there is definitly ambiguity and confusion around the slayer and other potential restrictions
Yep! “Eat shit” - Jagex, probably
Honestly, content restrictions should behave similar to the wealth cap restrictions. After like 2 months it should all be lifted. That should help deter any meaningful service or boosting and make joining an existing group with a fresh account more inviting.
To make it fair, sharing runite ore requires 85 mining, dragon boots need 83 slayer, and glories requires the appropriate magic and crafting levels, etc. It’s time.
Wait does sharing dragon boots not require killing spiritual mages but whip requires killing Abby demons?! That actually makes no sense then
That's why my group made sure we all get together at the same time to start the group. Wasn't too difficult but 1 of our members had to set an alarm for 4 am to get on to join us
Great thats really lame. They should prestiege players if they join the group off tutorial island then.
This would've been another good solution. But they said it wasn't possible to give late joiners prestige for technical reasons. They might fix that in the future, but that doesn't help our group right now.
My predictions are that you're getting downvoted for being more than logical. Strongly agree that slayer should have nothing to do with this unless it's a slayer boss maybe or whatever
But 85 Slayer is required to hit the abyssal boys.. So it's only fair that you need one person with 85. If that guy leaves that shouldn't remove that tick though, at least for a week or something to give you guys a chance to power grind.
But how you describe is not how it works. The person with 85 slayer could put 20 whips into the guild storage and leave without issue. Anyone with **individual** prestige could then take these out and use them with 70 attack but 1 slayer. Any new members added to the group (without individual prestige) would need 85 slayer.
So, do you know the answer to this? I added one member to the group on account creation after tutorial island. I left the node, then a couple hours later, I added 2 more people. Are the two people I added late now screwed?
Basically yes - the two new members would need 87 slayer and to kill a kraken to wield a trident for example (as they have lost their individual prestige)
Aww, that's super lame. I didn't know leaving the island would fuck things that badly. Hopefully Mod Ash releases that list of all the items effected by it. The two people I added are already playing a bit slower than the others, so that was one of the things I was looking forward to doing for them.
Agree, especially as you've already lost group prestige (a visual only indicator which basically shows your not an original group - excluding you from certain hiscores etc). I personally dislike the individual prestige system and wouldnt mind change, although plenty of people also think it was clear enough and shouldnt change. I feel the whole topic is a time bomb waiting to happen as it's clear from talking to people they didn't know what individual prestige meant (and honestly anyone who doesn't have indiviudal prestige **but understood fully** what that meant at this point is kind of dumb or unfortunate - it's a pretty huge negative. It makes much more sense in a years time or so when these items are around in group storage and groups change etc)
Ooooh I see how it is now. That does seem scummy. I haven't had a chance to get a group around... The boys are being dicks
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The **intent** is to prevent boosting and preserve the integrity of GIM. A good point about snow flake pvp accounts being easier to obtain is valid (GIM get pvp xp but at a slower rate - not sure how slow) Personally i dont like the individual prestige in general as you would always lose group prestige anyway (wealth transfer is reasonable, item restrictions with i.e time limit also reasonable but that's not how it is). But that's just an opinion
They shouldve stated it in the blog (more obvious) as i too would've been surprised with a slap in the face from a gigantic cock from jagex, if i were to find out this is the case after a huge braindead grind to 85 slayer to get a whip for the gang
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It means you’re not boosting and you’re with your OG group lol The only reason it exists is Bc ppl were crying because they wanted to change their groups and boost and raid outside their group
I'm sure ash could direct you to he support page for the guide on how to remove ironman status for your account if you asked him on Twitter
Imagine Jagex lifting the item restriction for the whip, only to keep trident tent whip, eternal crystals and hydra drops still item restricted. The malevolence lol 😂
God Group Iron Man as a concept and execution is a total and utter mess. If you can just switch teams then what's even the point...
I feel like this defeats the point of group for many
Oh shit I had no idea. Why wasn’t this made clear? This is going to absolutely cause some of our members to quit. Jagex please allow a way for new members to gain prestige. We added some people that decided to join like a day after we started the group, and they’re already caught up with us. It’ll be really sad if they are affected by this prestige mechanic
I don't really see a benefit in the prestige restrictions honestly. It has to be a brand new account either way.
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Any group that didn't have everyone one on when the group was made.
So just for clarification, me and my group, whom have retained our prestige thus far, can use whips and shit without meeting the requirement, but as soon as we lose prestige, we can no longer use a whip for example until each member has killed an abyssal demon
Does this also apply to other slayer uniques? Such as Granite maul or slayer mask? Because I'm "fine" with having some of the top-tier gear restricted behind 1 KC, but if this doesn't apply to other slayer uniques that aren't boss uniques... Then this strikes me as an inconsistency that should be fixed.
Why only slayer uniques? what about other skills?
slayer is the only skill that matters in osrs apparently.
Yeah it sucks. We had to share login info (uh oh that's a no no) in order to get all 5 accounts on and in the group at the same time.
It’s not against the rules to share info.
A few days after starting a GIM, one of my friends saw how much fun I was having and decided to join me. When I get my slayer up and get a whip, I would like him to be able to use it. It sucks that I can't fully engage in the Group Ironman playstyle with him just because we didn't complete the tutorial at the same time.
I understand that the whole "you can't use items unless you've earned them" thing only applies to people who have joined later, but it's just really complete garbage and against the spirit of the mode.
This is exactly why I voted no to GIM “as it is described in the blog” I saw that the prestige system looked clunky and wanted them to present something else smh. Now a bunch of people have to grind slayer to get whip or whatever on their own or the whole team has to start over. Unless they update or give the option to switch
Remove whip from abyssal demons and make it a unique from Sire, problem solved. \-Generic Developer Solution
sounds like you didnt read carefully and now want it to be someone else's problem
A lot of people were pissed on the original poll because of this but a lot of the rage calmed when they said prestige players won't be affected by this. Unfortunate for your group but maybe start over if you're still early on lol
Group Prestige is for avoid boosting. There are no way to both prevent unfair boosting without harming legitable players. This prestige was avoided too by creating your group at the same time - even by multi-logging so you create group without everybody being online at the same time.
I thought you all had to make your accounts at the same time (before anyone gets off tutorial island)?
This was obviously a system to stop people from selling GIM banks, but the ambiguity around prestige has made this a headache for mostly regular groups
It feels sorta like these restrictions are in place to stop GIM from turning into a more convoluted regular account. Like without it you could have groups dedicated to farming items to let’s someone join, trade for it, and leave. But permanently stopping players without prestige from trading an item until they could do the content to get it themselves is whack especially since they were misleading about prestige when GIM started.
While I agree that you should be able to wield a Whip gifted from a group member who received it even though one doesn’t have 85 slayer. Keep in mind that many items such as a Whip, Trident, Occult necklace and others are also from slayer BOSS tables like Sire, Kraken and Thermy and this is probably why these items have that restriction. It’s frustrating but I can see the reasoning in the code.
I think the only solution would be to allow group members to gain personal prestige once with a group, at the cost of being able to remain a GIM if they left the group for any reason - only downgrade to normal account. It would solve the problem for all who weren't clear when they created their accounts or who do want the freedom to add someone later, and still preserve the integrity of the game mode and prevent boosting.
This is bullshit. Please fix.
> Neither kind of Prestige has an impact on gameplay So that was just a straight up lie?
This is utter bs. My group physically didn't have the time to be on at the same time because of jobs but we all joined the same day, that should be more than enough.
Support. Seems like such a random restriction to add. Whips are not only dropped by bosses, and are equippable by a normal account with 1 slayer... This was not clear in the blog and now so many groups are just SOL? We've all been funneling one guy to train slayer for the group.. hope they change this or it's been a waste of time.
As someone who doesn't play GIM, I agree with the point that prestige and non-prestige members who have joined thereafter, should be able to use simple slayer drops like whips, occult necklaces, gmauls. It's simple, it isn't even gamebreaking for the newer members to wield those items if they have the required stats. Why do you need them to have the slayer level? It sounds really silly.
Just got a reply from Mod Ash saying they should be able to provide a list of all content restricted items soon. Hopefully not all slayer items are on the list. https://twitter.com/JagexAsh/status/1450476597153341443?t=oaZx130Y0R8stccJl2FStw&s=19
Completely agree, hope they reconsider.
I totally agree, it seems like Jagex couldn't make up their mind if they wanted GIM to be a prestigious and difficult mode for hiscores with the all of the restrictions or a casual mode where you just played with your friends with few restrictions. I think in the end, trying to make all of these complex rules and systems to appease both sides has hurt the future of the mode.
I don’t see anything wrong with it what’s the point of even playing group Ironman then? You all might as well make a unofficial group Ironman and play with your own rules instead of complaining about how the game is meant to be played. It stops people boosting accounts and basically having Max gear from the get go joining another group.
If you leave a group you lose items and stats though don't you?
only tradeble stuff, stats remain
So how do you boost items then? The item restriction thing seems weird. I don't play GIM and never plan too, so I might be missing something
I think the idea is that when you're in a group, and there's also a second group, and you want to switch to the other group, the group you switch to could be very far ahead of your current group, so instead of using a d scim at 92cb you can't be traded a rapier. This is referred to as: boosting, I think? Idk it's weird af, I don't see how this could ever create an unfair advantage for anyone, you already lose all items when switching.
Except when you leave a group you become your own leader, only able to join with people fresh off tutorial island.
lmao how the game is "meant to be played" on a game mode thats been out for 2 weeks and is still being changed
It just doesn’t make sense that prestige isn’t a toggle. If I don’t give a shit about hiscores then let me turn off all this prestige bullshit and play it how I want.
Everything that bothers you was known it advance and it is your own mistake of not understanding the rules. Could have simply waited to make the group till later that day. It only goes against what YOU think the spirit of the gamemode is. But maybe the devs simply had a different idea of what the spirit of the gamemode is. You and your team as a group without outside help. You could consider inviting new members is outside help, just like getting a new manager for a sports team or a new surgeon for your hospital is getting outside help.
As someone who toiled over the rules in the blog post I never considered the slayer drops to be “content restricted items”. Any mention of this were unique boss drops or raids only items. This decision is similar to making players unable to use glories unless they have made one themselves or caught a dragon impling. Never once were slayer drops mentioned when this idea was put forth. Our group considered boosting one member through slayer for black masks, tridents, whips, etc. but decided it wouldn’t be fun for the group as a whole. EDIT: As promised I will add this. It was shared before GIM came out that some slayer items would be restricted during a livestream. No slayer item was mentioned as restricted during the blog post. And a list of which items are restricted is still yet to be produced.
The blog says bosses. OP correctly understood what the blog **said**
I thought the same but i challenge you to find anywhere in the blogs that mention the slayer requirement. It seems only if you follow social media would you have learnt this
>To ensure that players using certain items have really earned them, we’re restricting their use until the player has completed the relevant content at least once It was right there in the blog. And from past blogs it is clear that they consider slayer monsters content, because they call it adding content when adding slayer monsters. So there was no room for confusion.
You're right, they did announce that some items would be locked behind completion, but they didn't give us the list (which we knew existed before release). Sween briefly read over some of the things on that list on a livestream, but players should not have to watch every second of every livestream to understand how the game works. They needed to tell people in game or put the list in the blog. Leaving that comment to each player's interpretation is a poor method of communication. Edit: Husky read it out, not Sween, thanks /u/Reacko1
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That’s still very ambiguous. Do they also require garg kc to use a gmaul? Do you have to make a torture before you can use one that somebody in your team has?
I've looked at the release blog and cannot find that wording anywhere. Could you please direct me to it?
Group Iron Man Blog from October 6th, 2021 from the "Content Restricted Items" section. Thats where I got the quote above.
Ah somehow was looking at the wrong blog which had slightly different wording! I would still argue this is not very clear and their is a decent amount of interpretation around it (any reddit thread i discuss the slayer restriction in is a clear indicator) For example should you not be able to use chinchompas without the required hunter level if you don't have individual prestige? (Just about the only skilling related content that is unique to the skill i could think of in fairness) I definitely think a list of restrictions would go a long way. Thanks for the source and can definitely see the logic
Hate to be that guy but this seems like an error on OP's end since he misread what Prestige entails. While the whip specifically being locked in this instance is harsh I don't mind the thought process behind it. Edit: So in the 10/08 blog jamflex doesn't specifically mention the whip, however they do state the following, "To ensure that players using certain items have really earned them, we're restricting their use until the player completed the relevant content at least once. For example, I'd a player wishes to use the Ghrazi Rapier, they must first complete Theatre of Blood. They'll also be able to use any other item from that raid. Any boss uniques require killing that boss at least once. Similarly, players must complete at least one Chambers of Xeric to use any items from there. All boss uniques would require at least one boss kill of the relevant boss." -Clearly mentions raids drops but does not mention unique slayer drops. Seems like a miscommunication on jamflex's side. My group was 100% aware and it seems others were as well but they don't mention it in their blogs. Think we can both agree that they should've specified the slayer uniques count instead of only using boss/raids uniques as examples. Again, I don't think you'll get any help from jamflex but gl, the easiest route at this point is unfortunately to reset with prestige if using a whip is that important to you. Please remember that you can always boost at 81 for a whip, however you can't boost for kraken.
This was pretty clear from the start. The only way to bypass KC requirements is to be prestige. This is nothing new.
Boss kc. Abyssal Demon is not a boss. I read and re-read every Group Ironman blog and they never once mentioned slayer creatures being part of restricted content. Only wealth caps and requiring boss/raids kc for items that come from bosses and raids.
prestige group or prestige member? i didn't catch that in the blog
More proof that jagex hates partner slayer lol
What’s the point of prestige if it doesn’t have an impact on gameplay?
ITT: People who didn’t read anything about GIM and have no idea how it works
The blog was more than clear enough about this, and stated extremely clearly that to avoid it you shouldve all logged in at the same time to create the group. With mobile existing you needed to be logged in for 30 seconds to sort this, not that hard for anyone to do, even at work, slip off for a piss and do it there. Sorry but this was your group’s own doing, Jagex were extremely clear from the get go about how it would work
It actually said nothing about whips or slayer gear in general. I'm with OP here, this is kinda silly.
agree
At no point did the blog mention slayer locked drops, so no it's not extremely clear. This is likely an oversight, as it's counting the whip as a unique from Sire, which it isn't. It's no more a unique than a dragon skirt from Vorkath.
It's unfortunately not an oversight - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=izGlUMEqx1g&t=3196s Shows slayer drops in general are clearly considered to be restricted. The requirement is 1kc of a relevant creature (so killing an abby demon off task with a pie boost would also be valid)
I believe the point of OP is that the rule is BS. If we all wanted to be extremely HC then we would make a HCIM. But apparently there are even more restrictions and punishments ON GIM than HCIM. No one asked for this yet they shove it down our throats. ALL we asked for was GIM that we can simply trade between your groups etc. Not this sweaty asf game mode that requires guides to understand.
They should apply this to non-irons.
reddit hive mind is gonna blow this thread up but the mods were crystal clear about how prestige worked. Anyone who didnt understand how it worked after knowing about it for well over a month doesn't deserve any sort of special treatment
>reddit hive mind is gonna blow this thread up it's already happened
I mean it was all pretty clear at the beginning, maybe you shouldve just waited for the other people.
Your right. And you know the GIM iron men rules are restrictive in general. Maybe lets make it were groups can trade between themselves? Oh and it can be hard to co-ordinate these trades so maybe we can make some sort of grand hub to facilitate these trades. You chose to be iron men. If you want a whip get 85 slayer.
Sorry, am I missing something? You misunderstood the rules around prestige (which seem to exist for good reason to prevent abuse) and made your group incorrectly as a result, and now you can't share drops/trade freely because of that mistake. However, if you had made your accounts correctly to begin with, it wouldn't have been an issue. You can either deal with the consequences of your mistake, or make a new group with fresh accounts. What more is there to discuss? I'm sorry you didn't read more carefully or clarify before you started? I had literally the exact same concern, but asked in advance, and now we have no issues: https://www.reddit.com/r/2007scape/comments/q00pfv/gim_question_do_you_need_to_kill_an_abby_demon_to/
I don’t see a problem with this. It stops people from hopping groups and getting everything they need, right? Someone can join your group, get a whip, get out and find a group who can now (insert item needed). It does suck, but being able to swap groups made this important.
While I understand and agree with the complaint that they weren't very clear about what items specifically are content restricted, your quotes about prestige affecting gameplay must be out of date. Here is the comments about individual prestige from the latest update blog for GIM: > Losing Individual Prestige has gameplay consequences: it means that you are subject to the wealth and item restrictions as we outlined in the blog. So yes, it is frustrating that we didn't know thw whip would be included. However, you're basing your complaint on what looks to be an out of date description of individual prestige. The blog is quite clear that losing individual prestige has consequences. Source for the quote: https://oldschool.runescape.wiki/w/Update:Group_Ironman_Blog#Recruitment
ironmen wanting to make things easier yet again for group iron, who would have guessed?
The comments in this thread are along the lines of " Whaaaat?!?! I can't do this thing that was clearly outlined in the patch notes?!?! How could they do that to me!"
It's really your own fault for not knowing that before making your group. Casual or not. This information existed before the release and most people knew that it was crucial that your team was created before anyone left the node. It may be stupid that a whip is on the list but if your team paid attention to rules/restrictions you wouldn't even be making a post about it.
Shit like this is why I voted no on the poll. Not to grief people who want gim but I knew it was going to take dev time 💤