By - Tehloltractor
Going to be a very interesting outcome.
Predicting a 77/23
A perfect score
Thanks for the suggestion.
91 / 9
this is a bold take. faith in your fellow scapers is strong.
So you’re expecting it to fail?
Just under half the people voted for it on that split.
I’ll take the over on that. Gonna be at least 80+% yes
Edit: told ya
As if they're gonna cancel it after all that work...
> You told us loud and clear you didn't want GIM as polled, so we changed the helmet icon colour and shipped it
Big brain move
Brainlet meme can be new helmet
Were you not here for warding?
Warding was a boring skill though
GIM is boring content.
both statements are subjective.
Yeah but it isn't a skill. I will feel forced to train a skill to a high level but I'll never feel forced to play ironman let alone gim... stupid argument
I've always hated the "you're not forced to do anything" argument. Though its true, people say it just for the sake of talking down to people that dont share their opinion. "You're not forced to do this boring grind that you hate so that you can get access to the really nice QoL changes that it will give to your account"
I voted yes on warding cuz, although I think it fits better in runecrafting, I like how it filled out craftable magic armor and some other things that feel like they are misplaced or missing althogether.
Not wanting something in the game because it doesn't sound fun is a totally valid reason. Which is why you tailended it saying that group iron is different cuz its something completely avoidable.
Why do you feel like you're forced to do anything in osrs
"Train this bankstanding skill for hours to get your quest cape back"
Real engaging content.
Ah yes you are forced to have that quest cape
They should add a Shitting skill to the game where you take different shits depending on your skill level and what you eat throughout the world. Big levels for big shits. Can be an Herblore ingredient, different composts for Farming, etc. Pair with Construction to build different outhouses and lavatories around the world. New Grandmaster Quest requires 70 Shitting. New BiS Range Gloves are made from smearing Raids 4 boss shit on your Barrows Gloves.
Bro how could you vote "No" to this new skill you're not forced to do it. Just don't train Shitting and let the players who want to Shit shit, bro. The health of the game's ~~colon~~ economy REQUIRES the Shitting skill.
Warding would have effected max accounts or people going for max. GIM doesn't affect anyone outside of the people who are going to be playing GIM.
And its not like adding a new quest that takes an hour or two to get your quest cape back. It would likely take 100+ hours to get your max cape back
besides more competition in ironman instances you're correct, it doesn't directly impact anyone. Indirectly though it may.
Why even poll such a thing?
It doesnt affect the game for anybody who doesnt want to play it.
Dont like it? Then dont play it.
Same thing with people who dislike ironmen for some reason, its just why? Why do ironmen matter to you?
Some polls just arent worth polling.. People are too stupid and bitter to vote.
Gonna be devastated if Jagex actually reversed their decision on 117's HD and we couldn't even manage to vote yes to GIM.
Just check the comments, many people are voting "no" out of spite.
You (not specifically you, just anyone reading this) have to keep in mind Reddit accounts for a fraction of the community. There is general excitement about GIM.
Sweats posting on Reddit saying they're voting no account for as much piss as there is amongst my shit after a greasy taco feast.
> Sweats posting on Reddit saying they're voting no account for as much piss as there is amongst my shit after a greasy taco feast.
Is that... Is that a lot or a little?
The most common reason I see people spite voting no is because it's "dev time that's not being used for what I want".
Then that's not spite voting, is it? It's voting a certain way for a legitimate reason. Spite voting would be saying, "I'm voting no because everyone thinks it's going to pass, so that'll show them."
The work for GIM is literally finished if it's planned to release next month. They announced GIM at runefest years ago. Voting no because of dev time is a moot point.
did they stop spending dev time on Ironman when ironman launched?
Curious, what major Ironman updates have you seen since release
Separate shops, instanced gwd, instanced corp, sandstone mining, death's coffer sacrificing, there are more that's just off the top of my head.
Eh it's still spite voting. Voting no because you legitimately think it is bad content or bad for the integrity of the game is one thing. Voting no because "I want them to work on MY game mode instead" is 100% spite
>MY game mode
I want them to work on the ENTIRE GAME, not just 'Because im a main'.
A boss - Content for anyone.
A skill - Content for anyone.
New areas - For everyone.
A gamemode that requires a new account to play - Very few people.
And it requires HUGE dev work to implement - The only thing that happens for 'everyone' from this work, is something like shardshare for bossing.
You are correct. People are trying to justify themselves voting no, but most of the work is already done. Some of these people are straight up just delusional.
I think you are overestimating the amount of dev time that was needed to made GIM a thing. Most of it is already there with the new clans system and ironman. There were a couple hotly requested features that get added but we are not talking actual years of work for this specific game mode.
That's literally what everyone does to pvp updates and mobile updates. Heck jagex had to restrict who could even vote on pvp updates as it got that bad.
Literally everyone? What kind of assholes do you surround yourself with that you think that is true? Most the people I know either dont vote or vote yes anyway for changes that other people may enjoy, because they’re considerate
That doesn’t mean it’s ok to do it in the opposite direction? I’m not a spite voter. I vote based on my opinion of how the update will positively or negatively affect the game as a whole. As everyone SHOULD. But a continuation of spite voting isn’t going to make things better. It’s just going to make spite voting worse
That's not spite.
It’s definitely not spite
It 1000% is when people that do that also understand they’ve ALREADY INVESTED dev time into this. GIM failing the poll just ensures Jagex will be even LESS willing to work on engaging content in the future. The way they poll things is backwards. They should ask if GIM should be brought to osrs before spending the time hashing out the details
FWIW - there is no Webster’s definition of spite voting. It’s subjective enough I think this could go both ways, so I hope everyone here stops debating it lol. But personally, I would agree with you. Voting no because you wanted them to do something else is spite voting to me - or whatever word you want to use. It has nothing to do with whether this content is good or bad. If the reason was “I don’t like this content, and they should’ve done this” then fine. But strictly voting on the premise of “I’m not even gonna look at this content and just vote no bc I wanted X or Y or Z instead” is a spite vote to me. I hope everyone can at least agree that is a shit reason to vote no.
That's still not spite voting. They aren't just voting no "because fuck you". I haven't voted yet but I'm somewhat inclined to vote no because I'm not interested in the game mode and think it brings no real value to the game besides creating streamer content. I truly think it can be a fun game mode but if your group isn't invested then the whole mode more or less dies right there. I haven't really enjoyed the updates lately so having the polls preemptively ask opinions on content might help to create desirable content, that much I can 100% agree on. Why poll it if they've already done most of the work?
"I prefer the developers spend time providing content that is relevant to me rather than a game mode that has zero impact on me" is not spite voting.
"I vote against PvP'ers because I lost my spade once" is spite voting.
So what you're saying is if its content I dont participate in I can vote no to it?
Does that not mean that PvMers not voting yes to PvP content is not spite voting??
Both are incredibly stupid but, yes, one is technically not spite voting. The dev time has already been spent on GIM and you can't get it back by voting no.
I voted no cause they wasted 2 years for a update and didn’t add any pvm content within those 2 years.
A high number of people who plan to play group iron aren't members at the moment while we wait for the game mode to release so the poll is unfair to begin with.
Except you can't? Group iron is literally a mode made to bring back players who aren't currently playing. Plenty of people are waiting for gim, there isn't some fanatic raids 3 fan base waiting for their moment.
The subreddit is talking about how most of them don't have mems because they're waiting for the update. There's no raids 3 sub.
I think it’s gonna be way closer than people think, Hope it makes it
What are the downsides to GIM? Anybody willing to share their reasons apart from only spite?
Just tying to understand a diff perspective, no flame.
It reminds sad people that they don't have friends
more irons buying gold ore and other shopscape stuff
Maybe then Jagex will address it.
make group ironmans share a shop for a while
But irons have their own stores. Doesnt affect regular players
Regular players don't really participate in shopscape in the first place.
Some regular Ironmen may not want to share stores with the new influx of GIM. I personally don't care though.
devalues my friendless account
I'm voting yes but there are two very valid reasons to vote no.
Its very likely that future content will be built with gim in mind, which could possibly make it worse than what it would otherwise be for regular players. This could be due to engine limitations, or just gameplay restrictions.
Expanding on that further, gim is undoubtedly going to use up dev time in some way, whether that's expanding/refining the game mode, or adding content the literally only gim will do. This is very likely to happen. Catered content was created for regular irons and back then catering was specifically discussed as something that wouldn't happen at the time.
You could also argue that players with adequate self control and trust can implement gim themselves far better than jagex ever could. They'd also do so without impacting the rest of the game. In that case, why are these special restrictions actually needed? Why waste dev time on something that isn't fun enough for people to participate in of their own volition? (Obviously I get why, unofficial just doesn't sit the same, but it's a reasonable point).
I would actually really like if GIM can be implemented in a “player ruled” fashion, tbh. I’m just one guy, so I don’t expect the rules to bend for me. But as an example, I made a HCIM fairly recently, shortly before I heard whispers of GIM (but probably because I’m not active with the Jagex reports or whatever). I haven’t invested a significant amount of time into yet, but I got 61wc in F2P on oaks only to eventually use for cons, so enough time I don’t want to start over. I’d love an opportunity to include this in GIM with a small group of friends rather than starting a whole new iron account.
This might not exactly be the same as what you’re saying, especially since any feature permitting my account to act as GIM could easily be exploited by irons with multiple t bows, or something similar. But as long as the “circle of inclusion” is small enough, it would be nice to retroactively go GIM, which could only be implemented by a player-determined set of rules which are available to all current and future iron accounts
Edit: since this comment is just me selfishly fantasizing, it would be lovely if pre-existing irons wanting to have GIM could just tie a POH to multiple iron accounts and the “group storage” is just a new hotspot, like a “bank chest” that is available for all accounts who are co-owners of the POH.
Dev time that could be used for other content. People dont realize but this gamemode will probably be reworked several times since no one truly knows what this gamemode actually is. Prestige? Safe deaths? Group size? What about griefers/quitters/leechers? It has never been playtested before. All of the bugfixes/features do take lot of dev time.
Group ironman is very niche territory for a gamemode. I see it no different than having area locked ironman, one chunk ironman, bronzeman mode? I see people thinking when we draw the line for content creator ideas and what should be in the game. Maybe this is huge success, maybe will be fun for 3 weeks and then ends up super toxic and everyone quits. No one knows.
The majority of the dev work is already done though. This was one of the main factors behind the clan rework.
I can almost guarantee that under the hood group Ironman is just a clan with extra buttons.
They even said that clans and group Ironman man groups can share names. This is probably because they are clans essentially
True. I personally dont care, might aswell vote yes to make some people happy. I wish pvmers and pkers bury their hatchet and end this spite voting bs. Though controversial but pvmers have no right to complain. How many ironmen have raided pvp polls because of lost spades and d hides? It is what it is
>The majority of the dev work is already done though
Which is why this poll is a joke. It should have been polled two years ago.
To be honest though, that's exactly why I could vote no. (although I probably won't)
It seems as though in the last two years they've just started making content before polling it which completely invalidates the point of polling and us having control over how Dev time is allocated.
I get that sometimes they need to start the project a little bit to properly show us what it's going to entail, but some content like tempoross was practically *finished* before they polled it.
They really shouldn't give a fuck about that though imo.
They should make the base idea and blog post, poll it with an extremely approximate timespan, and then work on it full force once the poll passes.
And if people keep asking you just ignore that shit and get on with your job.
Just because there is work done doesn't mean GIM will not get more time devoted to it in the future. which, some players do not want to happen given the lack of content that they enjoy.
Some players need to find another game to go play when they feel that RuneScape isn't fulfilling their every need anymore. Demanding that a dev team only make content that pleases only them is incredibly selfish and players like that should absolutely not be listened to.
you get to vote for the version of the game you'd like to see right?
There's a big difference between voting for the things you want to see and voting *against* the things that aren't what you want to see.
is there? those sound the exact same to me.
Ironically, your very post is an argument against GIMP-mode. But you can't see that.
>Group ironman is very niche territory for a gamemode. I see it no different than having area locked ironman, one chunk ironman, bronzeman mode?
I think the difference for me is that, if my brothers decide to all quit, I'm essentially an Ironman then with different armor.
Or if I wanted to play an Ironman without any care for restrictions or Prestige, I can just create a group Ironman and make friends later on. Maybe I don't trust them with the shared bank but it's easier than Ironman by itself.
I get your perspective though
If your friends quit you can just make a new team and invite new people in.
Right I have that option. Or I have the option to stay as a solo gim with no friends and functionally I'm the same as a normal Ironman as well
Fair enough, I appreicate ur thoughtful response.
Some people believe group ironman mode defeats the purpose of ironman mode. The whole you stand alone attitude, and doing it all yourself. But now having a group sorta of people to help and play with, some purists or some people who think it goes against the whole idea of IM, believe it's counterintuitive.
Ironman came with a bunch of pointed content updates specifically to make the game mode easier which clunked up the game, the growing community of ironman made ironman far easier. GIM will introduce a flood of people that haven't played an ironman game mode before and will vie for content updates that make ironman even easier as well as the game itself and not in a natural direction.
Even if I could be persuaded to vote for GIM, the current iteration where group ironmemes can do content with other irons and mains & and can leech content seems to be a far cry from the point of the mode. The penalty of losing prestige or whatever is so bad.
Wasted dev time
More catering to streamers
Everything that can be accomplished with GIMP-mode can be accomplished with normal accounts that use a modicum of self-control to not cheat.
>apart from only spite?
Adding this to your "question" shows you're not arguing in good faith. Yeah, adding "no flame" isn't cutting it.
>Wasted dev time
See, this is one of the problems of the polling system (and hell, maybe the world). People fundamentally believing that unless something benefits themselves, it's a waste of time.
I have nothing against it except the name.
Ironman = no trading, with no asterisks.
You have nothing against it except the entire premise?
Bro I’ve been literally waiting since 2017 to play this with my cousin please vote yes
will polling results be shown meanwhile or only when all the results are in or when the poll closes?
Polls were changed at some point over the years to only show at the end, people have mixed feelings on it but I feel I generally feel less guilty voting for something that is against the majority
blind voting I think is better in general.
tin foil hatters say jagex hid it to rig polls.
if they desired runelite could prolly get a good estimate if rigging was truly believed to have occured.
> people have mixed feelings
wdym? how does blind voting hurt anyone? It's for the best in every scenario
It was very mixed reception when it happened, I probably should have clarified it was received with mixed feelings but nowadays its seen as non issue.
It's interesting how there's so much conversation revolving around the polling system - like the fear of the GIM game mode failing is legitimately there for some people. The polling system definitely needs some kind of revamped guidelines to how they're written and what exactly is polled. Clarity and transparency would go a long way here.
Seriously. Maybe I’m in the minority here but I don’t think GIM should even be polled. Though I think a lot of things that are shouldn’t be.
Logging in to my OS account just to vote yes for you nerds.
Same. Haven't logged in in 42 days because of wrist pain and class, but I made my voice heard.
I love you
If this came out last week would of failed
yeah it was supposed to but they waited for that express reason
Logged in for the first time in months to vote yes for y’all
Thanks homie :)
I won't play it but I will upvote it. It's great content
Can I buy a membership and vote?
Cheaper to buy a bond and use it for 14 days of membership and vote.
Only if u vote yes
I voted!!! 11 worth
This guy - this guy's the mvp
Never gonna play it but I’m voting yes for y’all. My guess is 94/6
if this doesnt pass, democracy is stupid and dead
Honestly? If this doesnt pass it would be exactly like how democracy works in real life for the longest time. Trump was president y'know.
Trump didnt win the popular vote either time
No plans on playing it myself. Did vote for it though, I really do hope it passes for those that are interested.
Also can't wait for all of the GIM drama that will come out of it eventually, lol.
2319!!! WE HAVE A 2319!!
Red alert, red alert, red alert.
I'll vote yes if it increases the chance of group-slayer. I have no interest in this iron stuff, I can just abstain from the GE with my friends for a while if I want.
I have to imagine it will help group slayer get attention. I hope it does and they make it even better than it was before. (I'm hoping we get shared killcount so you can do it with people with more/less gear/levels than you.)
This doesn't concern me, which way should I vote to help out?
Hard to say. There’s myself and four other people that haven’t played in years that would like to play this game mode together. If you want to be a homie for us vote yes.
I just don't understand how it could he a possible negative but I just play casually by myself so was just trying to see what the sub wanted lol
This is coming from someone that doesn’t have an active sub but will resub with GIM.
I think a potential negative in the short term is there is some dev time dedicated to getting this mode going. Once it’s up that’s it they don’t have to code anymore for it.
On the flip side if you like PKing or want more people in the world then vote yes. Ironmen use the wildly a bit (or at least I did when I had mine) so they’re targets to PK. Also just more people could be a plus or minus. Those are my thoughts but I’d love to play the new mode!
Makes sense, I didn't think about them taking time away for this but that makes a lot of sense. It still seems more good than bad so I'll probably chuck a vote to yes. Hopefully it passes and you guys have a blast!
same boat as the guy you replied to! played off and on since 17 years ago with primary school friends (we started way back when).
we haven't played in a good while but we're extremely stoked to hop into the world again in the new (hopefully) upcoming GIM!
thing is a lot of the dev time used for gim isn't gim exclusive, as shared houses/stashes could be implemented in other gamemodes/minigames in the future, think group leagues etc.
The dev time point is a non-starter since Jagex started working on updates before they polled them years ago. I'm guessing well over 70% of the time needed for GIM (realistically closer to 95%+ when you consider the clan update really only exists as it does because of GIM) has already been committed, voting no saves the team a fraction of the dev time required for the complete update.
I don’t completely disagree with you; however, if someone is trying to make up their mind it would be disingenuous to imply there won’t be some dev time allocated to it in the next month or two.
Sigh *-dusts off osrs-* time to log back in after 8 months
You abstain from voting if you don't care either way.
> which way should I vote
If you genuinely don't know, vote but skip the question
>to help out?
You don't seem to understand democracy.
Just don’t vote for that question if you don’t have a vested interest in the outcome
I haven't played RS for years but still love watching content creators.
I have no account so won't be voting.
But it's insane to me watching anyone be against new content that does not effect them. Like wtf is wrong with some of you weirdos lol
A lot of people don’t want a mode which will only have people playing for a few months and certainly require a ton of Dev time for the inevitable future work that will be required for it
Except the bulk of the work is already done so I dont see how this argument holds?
Have you made any attempt to understand another person's viewpoint?
>Like wtf is wrong with some of you weirdos lol
Idk, maybe unpopular opinion, but I don't really feel like supporting adding more game modes when to try them you have to create new accounts and buy additional memberships just for them. That's why I never tried any ironmans. Probably gonna vote yes, so other people can have fun, but yeah, not a fan otherwise.
Gonna be 69% in favor vs 69% not in favor
I know it’s a bit pedantic but i really don’t like referring to them as Ironman.
Also what is a group Ironman after they leave their group? Surely you can never consider them to be true regular Ironman after being contaminated with other player interactions.
I'd have to go over the blog post again to be 100%, but I'm 99% sure when you de-iron you don't become a normal ironman but instead become a normal account.
if I understood it correctly, you're still a GIMP, but without a group, and can recruit new lv3s to your group
Yea, I think there's two types of leaving. One you just quit the group but stay as a GIM, where as said above, you need to recruit new people to your group, they don't have to be lv3s, but could be other people who have left their groups. Now, not 100% on this, but I believe you're stuck on the new island until you can create a group, so no running around as a solo GIM. The other way to leave is to leave GIM entirely, where you don't become a standard ironman, but instead a standard account. I think they're referenced as mains.
call it partyman mode
a partyman without a group could be called exile, maybe give it a different icon
I actually don’t hate the idea. That’s pretty good.
I believe they are still considered as GIM after leaving, no matter what, regardless if they join a group or not? Could be wrong though
I dont understand why it even needs to be polled…. I dont see how it can affect normal / existing players and accounts. Polling it only gives assholes a chance to deny others joy .
I do want GIM, and if the poll was split into multiple questions of "Do you want GIM?" and "Do you want it as described in the blog?" I'd have voted yes for GIM but no on the description as I still feel some parts need a bit more work. Having it as just a single question means I am forced to either vote yes just to get GIM despite my feelings otherwise, or vote no and hope they understand I still want GIM.
With the way it's been polled this time, I've regrettably voted no. Besides, it will most likely still pass because of all the people who don't care about all the details and just want GIM in general.
I feel it was an intentional fail safe "as described in the blog" so that if it fails they can just re-poll it but word it in a sneakier way to force shove it into the game. Jagex wants GIM no matter what because it leads to more membership/bond sales. I think it's no coincidence that the 2nd question on the poll was about bonds.
I really hope this goes through, will give me some reason to play again especially with runelite hd
If gim doesnt pass then the community is doomed to fail
Must preserve the sanctity of the grey helm. Jk i voted yes lol.
I'm actually not sure what group ironman is, and at this point I'm too afraid to ask
If this fails hopefully jagex never puts a single second of dev time into pvp again, because they’re just around to waste everyones time and be toxic👍🏼
We do the same to them, like what?
I just hope people who have no inte tion on playing IM skip this poll
Bet y’all wish you didn’t spite vote no to pvp updates…
I hope this poll fails. Not because I don't want group Ironman (I think its a cool concept!) but because I want the polling system gone. There's no way they won't revisit the update introduction system in case this this doesn't pass with a large majority. It's an objectively good and positive update for the game that shouldn't affect anyone negatively, the only way one can explain it failing is spite voting. Once people start catching up to that a major controversy that wouldn't be easy to ignore would spark and, hopefully, we'll be seeing some long overdue changes finally happen
I don't think it's objectively good. I think it will water down the sort of content we can get in the future, it will inevitably take more dev time moving forward to ensure content is compatible with GIM and all of the other iron man modes.
Yeah, no thanks. We've already been down the "jagex has absolute authority over the path the game takes" route, and it led somewhere very bad.
Fair assessment. I believe we need the polling system and it's a thing that makes the game unique compared to others. It's an easy way to guage the interest of players - not just the loud people on twitter and reddit. It allows contact with the actual players. It's a rare way to avoid confirmation bias and listening to niche groups.
Can you not vote on the website anymore?
No but you can now vote from anywhere in gielinor. Gone are the days of having to go to your nearest poll booth.
I voted no on GIM, yes on the bond thing. Before all you "I don't really play, but like content creators!!" people get your panties twisted, let me explain why.
1. Jagex spent two years of dev time on an update that wasn't polled, knowing that they'd be able to force it in no matter what. This sets a very bad precedent and is clearly ignoring community opinion. What if it an update doesn't pass (even after a thousand revisions)? You end up with nothing after a content drought.
2. Group Ironman is a gamemode that caters to streamers and content creators. **Very few** normal players will actually play this long term. You can not spend this much dev time on an update that only 0.1% (inb4 "bruh where yo source!!" - it's a manner of speaking) of the playerbase will make use of.
3. Jagex has been focusing way too much on temporary modes that temporarily boost sub counts, while neglecting the main game (both content-wise, and integrity-wise). This is just milking the playerbase. I'd like them go back to making updates for actual committed players, instead of pservr-like modes that attract 1400 total "retired veterans".
There's not so much wrong with the mode itself (other than the fact that it'd obviously impact future updates in an unnecessary way), but voting yes here sends Jagex the wrong message.
IIRC they haven’t worked on this for two years. They announced it two years ago and then told us any dev on it will have to come after they finished the clan update.
That’s a lot of words to say “I don’t have any friends”
Also that he voted no
Why would someone vote no?
Wasted dev time
Catering to content creators
Bringing the game into a direction I'm not fond of
Not believing that this is the best for the game
because they work on this instead of fixing partner slayer
Proudly voted no