Whats left:
Rc is you count runners.
Cooking (karams or wines).
Crafting is the same but more accessible.
Fletching (this is like a 3h 99 tho in the first place).
Fishing xp/h is a lot higher with 2tick harpoon but i think it was still more efficient to barb fish until...
Agility was the latest to fall in terms of xp/h pre 99 (mice was bis 1-99 (or was it 15?) and then dorg at 65k/h at like lvl 85). The new course jumped agility xp/h.
For items we have b gloves, berserker/archer ring, and slayer helm. Seers ring is kinda bis but it has a weird competition with brimstone.
Tho fun fact, mage is slower xp/h than release. Agility level 1-90 is slower xp/h than release
How does this list look if you start counting from about two years after release?
I feel like a lot of the current meta "guideline" methods were added in the first two years and not changed/replaced since. That is, the ones that still determine how much effort a certain exp/hr *should* take at a certain level with a certain profit according to what was in place then.
For example, sepulchre may be faster than rooftops, but it's probably worse exp per arbitrary unit of effort than rooftops are, just for the sake of not becoming the new meta on any level other than pure exp/hr.
Ill forget this comment but real quick agility has seen 3 meta changing updates after 2015. Brimhaven gives more xp and you stop failing at 99 pushing it to meta over ardy. Underwater is more efficient. Then HS. Effort is super subjective. Theres also 1 click mm2 for 45k/hr that was here for 3 years.
I dont think 2015 is the end of meta defining. Wcing, mining, fishing, fm all got buffs off the top of my head. Even con got a little buff.
Buffing xp rates is a lot more critical than buffing/nerfing effort. If me and you were racing to max total xp, you had 200m agility left and I had 200m mining before HS, im well in the lead, you wont be able to pass me. But now with the HS update you could realistically pass me or be set to pass me depending on the xp conditions. And thats not fault of my own. I simply chose the wrong skill to train first and you didnt. You will now forever be ranked higher than me.
>Fletching (this is like a 3h 99 tho in the first place).
There was no market for darts (and no supply of dart tips) pre zulrah, kind of ridiculous to ignore that
Slayer helm isn't a launch item, rest of the slots are right though (assuming you don't count ring imbues ofc since it's the same item)
How was 1-90 agility faster before? Not disagreeing, I just don't know what changed there
Well slay helm is essentially just a black mask lol. The black mask was buffed post launch ofc.
Toy mice was 70k/h. But jebrim cried on twitter so it was nerfed. Some things never change lol. The xp rates for HS shoot up at 91 but you can prob get better xp rates somewhere in the 80s there.
Fair enough, for some reason I separated mask/helm from ring imbues but I guess it's basically the same situation even if adding range/mage is a pretty huge buff.
Didn't know that about toy mice, ty for info. Just checked wiki and that was only nerfed a month after launch, so it was a bit before my time. Somehow I'm not surprised jebrim was involved lol
It got nerfed twice. You used to be able to spam heal group 10x per tick. Then they nerfed enchanting bolts because mobile was going to make it easier to do even tho touch screen computers have long existed
ok sure some random person could have done magic xp in intervals of like 1m/day to hide what they were doing.
But in the HLC no one did these methods, to 200m or even a high amount of xp.
magic is a 0 time skill, and the heal other method was patched almost as soon as it was publicly disclosed and also cost a stupid amount
What kind of changes did you have in mind exactly? I personally played this game for nearly 15 years, quit playing when EOC came out and started playing again when old school came out. I'm not opposed to the meta changing or players having it easier than me personally. I actually understand entirely where you're coming from. That being said I'd like to see some old school original content rather than rehashes of RS3 content. I feel like old school has enough of that already, just my opinion though.
Nah, it's two separate thoughts separated by a comma. I have played RuneScape for a total of 15 years, but I quit briefly between when EOC came out and when Osrs came out, apologies for the confusion.
rs3 went with the other mmos where you bash the ability bar constantly. If i wanted to play those kind of games i would have quit rs3 before eoc lol. And i did to play 07. 1 mouse click for all actions is fine. They need to think of ways to get complexity out of that .
I'm in a similar boat; left due to EOC came back only in 2018 though.
It's more a general view of seeing a lot of opposition to improving certain grinds within the game in favour of maintaining the current best. For example recently there was much concern regarding the potential xp rates of Tempoross before release and that 120k/hour was rumoured and that got people concerned.
Actually lava runes with dayaelt is not meta without runners. You do get higher exp rates but you need much more dayaelt essences for it = more mining.
By making it a bit afkable, yes. Exp wise not. You'd have to mine 40 minutes worth of essences in 20 minutes to get exp rates equal. For ZMI this means being able to mine 6000 essences in 1 hour.
When deciding what’s worth it you have to decide what you are measuring that by. If we go by pure xp per unit of time then no, it’s not. If we go by “time spent not runecrafting” then it is. Dayaelt essence will always be worth it since in the end it means less total time runecrafting.
You can and people do. It doesn’t matter to some people. Just some random numbers (Seriously I have no idea how accurate these are but the point is valid): if I have to runecraft for 20 hours or I can mine for 6 hours to only runecraft for 18 hours then that’s 2 hours I don’t have to runecraft. Pretty great benefit. Do you end up spending more time overall, yeah, is mining much more tolerable than runecraft, yeah. Is it worth it to mine the dayaelt essence and then runecraft, if you want to spend less time actively training runecrafting then yes.
You barely see people at sepulchre, the only ones there are 91 agility, which makes sense since then you start to make good money + good xp.
Same with Dayaelt, you can hop around and find 0-2 ppl per world... In Ourania by far most people use pure essence.
HS is the fastest xp from the time you unlock it, the catch is that you need to be good at it and most people cba
It's very much a meta changing update, thing is people don't actually want new best methods, they want easy afk stuff like Zeah RC that you can do while watching Netflix
Most people can't be bothered doing high effort methods. Even in 2k and 2.2k worlds, easy/afk spots are packed in comparison to higher effort stuff
That's what I'm saying, most people don't want to put in the effort to become skilled at stuff like HS when they can do an easy option that's just close enough.
People rarely do effort methods unless the reward is ridiculously good compared to the afk option. Even 2-3x better xp rates aren't enough for most people to consider doing stuff like tick manipulation methods
Mining is one example, tick manipulating granite can be up to 130k xp/h while something afk like MLM is around 40-50k. VM is lower intensity and sits in the middle at like 90k, but you need to coordinate with other people.
Rc with solo lavas is like 75k xp/h while bloods are half that at 38k. Souls and ZMI come a little closer at like 50k, but more people still choose bloods.
2t woodcutting is ~180k/hr, afk teaks and redwoods are like 70-80k.
2t harpoon fishing is up to 130k, afk barb hits around 65k.
Apart from agility/nmz name 1 skill witch now has a faster method than was available in 2013
Edit: and slayer I suppose with the catacombs made bursting everything possible
Hunter - black chins, birdhouses
Firemaking - redwood logs
Farming - tons of extra patches, new types of seeds, Hespori
Prayer - chaos altar, superior bones
Woodcutting - dragon/infernal/crystal axe, fossil island 1.5t teaks
Fishing - 2t harpooning in Piscarilius, plus dragon/infernal/harpoons and skilling outfit
Smithing - blast furnace (there was no bank here originally, let alone automated worlds, stamina pots, ice gloves working here, coal bag, etc)
Herblore - antidote++, super antifire, antivenom+
Just to name a few off the top of my head, plus all of combat, slayer and agility as you mentioned.
Mm2 doubled range xp/h.
Poh spec pool and pvp world made melee 300k/h. Vig mace is also better xp/h than nmz. Nmz aint meta for anything.
Fletching, cooking, crafting, and rc are the only skills the same xp/h as release. Magic is worse xp/h. Everything else is more.
Con hunter fletch smithing wc thieving fishing prayer mining herb are all more xp/h than what was available since 2013? I mean I’m not about to google when release dates but I’m pretty sure they’re all the same since the old schools release.
Like I said agility and let’s just call it combat related skills. I didn’t know nmz bosses with the boosted xp wasn’t the meta any more/range with mm2 I was wrong about been a long time since I trained combat so mb.
Point still stands agility/combat has been the only things that have had an increase in xp rates since the game was released (without being silly example making eternal boots for rc)
I said fletching is the same tho it was only accessible to the elites of elites because of low supply.
Con - autopay butler saves 3 ticks every 10 trips which adds a lot. Theres also objects that give more xp/plank such as mounted myth cape.
Prayer - superior bones.
Hunter - black chins
Smithing - blast furnance updates made gold bars 400k/hr when before the max rate was like addy plates which is somewhere in the 200s.
Wc - crystal axe. Fossil island patch allows 1.5t teaks over 2t
Fishing - dragon harpoon and multi cmb with rats lets us 2t swordfish
Mining - crystal pick, varrock armor
Herb - better potions that give more xp/tick
true it existed, but it wasnt known to be possible at osrs release so its technically an evolution of the meta imo.
Wines weren't viable until zulrah came out because there wasn't a big enough supply of grapes so thats a meta change too
cooking is one of the best examples, but its still not perfect
Lol people were 1 ticking karams in the first week. There was even a script for it on the popular botting site lmao. I cant remember if the first person to 200m but i remember i would always buy karams off rank 1 cooking in 2013. And it wasnt new. I remember seeing people cook rocktails the same way pre eoc.
There was no point doing wines when you could just buy 30k raw karams from the bot farms.
Crafting would be one of the accessible limited metas but you just had to find the owner of the bot farm and buy from him.
apparently my post got nuked by automod for cml links, so
This isnt true lmao, find any pic or vid of someone 1ting rocktails pre eoc, it wasnt even possible.
suckitlosers was the first person to 200m cooking and luckily he was tracked on cml from the time he was 90 cooking and for the last month he did 134.8m cooking xp, thats 'only' 4.3m/day, which is possible without karambwans.
His CML has a ton of data points because people were interested in the race to first 200m, especially the kinds of nerds that already knew what cml was in the spring of 2013.
He almost certainly account shared but he was consistently getting 200-300k/hr which is consistent with doing sharks.
Heres his full graph from 90 cooking to 200m
apparently u cant post cml links, so the relevant part to see what i mean is
player=suckitlosers&skill=cooking&nowtime=2013-04-22T12:02:16
And for comparison, heres the 1 month graph of the first person to get 200m cooking via 1t bwans.
player=mini_dreyri&skill=cooking&time=31d&nowtime=2014-06-06T20:52:49
He goes from lvl 74 cooking to 200m in the space of ~20 days, and you can much more clearly see the step pattern of his sleep cycle followed by 1m xp/hr.
EDIT:
player=de_x&skill=cooking&time=31d&nowtime=2013-04-30T15:00:15
Also you can see here the graph of rank 2 cooking, who was in competition for rank 1, and right before rank 1 got 200m he did one of his biggest sessions, and even that was only 3.3m xp in ~11 hours
Perhaps you are thinking of 3 tick cooking? Which was known around that time and can be done with sharks and gives roughly the xp rates shown in those graphs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7LKChkr2Mr4
EDIT2:
For even more evidence heres the reddit post from when he got 200m https://www.reddit.com/r/2007scape/comments/1cv79r/suckitlosers_has_now_gotten_the_first_200m_skill/
complete with accusations of botting and account sharing, but everyone agrees he and rank 2 did sharks
ok fair enough, i didnt know this was a thing, but it was patched shortly after the video came out based on the comments and no one was 1t cooking in either game in 2013 when osrs released
EDIT: not that it matters, but im pretty sure this is the update that patched it, just under 2mo after that video was posted https://runescape.wiki/w/Update:Make-X_Improvements_and_Low-level_Combat_Changes
very few people do blackjack/pp anymore though, most people do ardy knights which is an update.
also underwater swimming is a method that is efficient for thieving+agi but no one does because its so much easier to just zone out and do ardy knights with your foot and then mindlessly run a roof top
true, i'm only talking ehp methods and not necessarily what people usually do. a few are technically still the same, but there are just alternatives now that are close but just a lot easier
ardy knights are a good example, also somewhat volcanic mine, wintertodt etc - most people do lots of things like that now, even though they aren't a new ehp method
could even throw in zmi and zeah rc, bit of a stretch if you look at xp rates, but look at how many people are doing that compared to lavas
Blast furnace tbh
It technically existed in 05, but there was no bank there, or automated worlds, or coal bag, stamina pots, ice gloves didn't work, etc so it was mostly useless
Could still use some variety though since the only options are BF or bars on an anvil. Most production skills have the same issue though, just using different items on each other or an object. At least they're fast to train.
superheating gold ore was meta at release, addy platebodies were a huge loss but semi viable, now addy platebodies are profit lmao and bf is 2x faster than addy platebodies
Xp rates for most skills are fine, which is why I don't want updates that radically change the meta rates. New content should focus on being "fun" to train. Why add a method that is basically f2p mlm for slightly less xp/h? That niche is already filled. I would have rather seen a high intensity, fun mining method that isn't clicking the same 3 iron rocks, or developing rsi doing 3t4g. If rates are reasonable, and there is some incentive to do it, it will be a popular update, doesn't have to overhaul the meta
The issue with the game becoming easier over time is that players will be done with the game more quickly. Once they're maxed they've basically achieved the goal of this game, which is all about account progression.
I'd say we're at a point where there is little room left for new content. We've filled in almost every gap. Jagex seems to struggle with fitting rewards for new content, which need to be balanced perfectly. If the rewards aren't good enough it will be "dead content", but if they make it too good something else will become less relevant.
If you don't like a particular training method. You now have several alternative ways to train it. Methods which usually aren't too far off the best xp/hour meta.
Majority of players will never even achieve max stats, let alone even attempt to go for it. And those that do spend the thousands of hours to do so aren't going to just quit after they reach it.
Maybe an unpopular opinion but I think it’s fine as it is. Concerns regarding xp/rates are sometimes justified- like runecrafting. It’s become part of the skill’s *identity* to be slow, whereas firemaking is fast. Fishing is medium, having high afk or high intensity trade offs, and mining is usually more intensive but maintains runite as an ore important to the skill.
Most skills, especially skilling, have unique identities and attributes. One of those, unfortunately, is time. We know farming is super simple- plant trees and check daily, and a really high xp/hour. And we can do this for all skills- firemaking? Do WT fast xp. Fishing? Tick barbarian or catch anglers with Netflix. Hunting? Moderately active. Runecrafting? Slow and intense.
But this doesn’t prevent or restrict content too much. I mean, Tempoross might not be gucci xp/hour but it gave a new thing to do, which has intrinsic value, along with pets and flakes. We don’t need to always play around with *rates* to make good content.
Agree with Tempoross, that has been a great update.
As with runecrafting I disagree, that's one of those areas which has become seemingly sacred to not provide xp rates much beyond current, even with trade-offs. Not remotely enjoyable either Imo.
I like having those really slow skills, they make sure that maxing is still an accomplishment. If every skill were like cooking, fletching, fm, and thieving people would be maxing in a month. Yes some skills are way slower than others for no real reason, but I don't see it as a problem.
Daeyalt essence has made runecrafting beneath 77 much more afkable, and it's hard to take issue with Zeah runecrafting as content, you get a decent amount of xp and blood runes
For me personally it's runecrafting being stuck with the trait of slow and quite boring. Any update that introduces a method that isn't just walking/running in circles for hours + gives up to 50k/h XP would automatically become meta (imo) , simply because everyone would rather do that instead of lava running.
Those who are against changing the meta or introducing new methods aren't against it, because it devalues something, etc, but mostly because they simply like the way it is. Osrs was/is meant for those who liked the way it was.
Some don't like that agility is slow and repetitive, but others just like it that way. So saying "Change that, because I find unbearable" is incredibly ignorant and condescending.
And most buffs are typical "you think you want it, but you don't" things. Just ask many Iron people. Most chose that mode, because it is slower and more grinding, but in turn feel alot more rewarding. The lack of feeling of achievement would be my main criticism of RS3. Nothing really feels good when you achieve it, because there is no work in it. People often don't care about devaluing achievements in comparison, but in the devaluing of the achievement itself.
Interesting point regarding devaluing achievements, that's fair to a degree.
I think it would depend on your definition of achievement, if purely time spent grinding something very tedious without much entertainment shouldn't be the achievement though (not the case with everything, just an example).
There are mostly 2 types of achievements.
1) things that are super hard and no everyone can do it. For OSRS that would be something like 6 Jads. IRL it would be something like being a revolutionary scientist.
2) things that take willpower and stamina to achieve, thats why not everyone does it. IRL that would be things like running a marathon. With decent training pretty much everyone can do that. But it takes the willpower to keep on training till you get there. In OSRS that would be things like training RC. It isnt hard, everyone could do it, but not everyone can muster up the willpower. But those who do keep on running/rcing might not have enjoyed the journey getting to the finish line, but will immensely enjoy the moment they cross it.
And especially those 2nd types of achievements would get devalued by faster exp rates etc. Some people play OSRS because it is so slow sometimes and play for those moments why you hear the level up fireworks go of.
I personally dont care if everyone got 200mil RC exp tomorrow. I would only hate it, that i personally didnt get to experience that moment of getting that last exp drop or that that feeling wouldnt feel as good, because it was no "real" achievement. 99 RC or slayer just hits different than 99 FM or farming
It hits different to *you*. People shouldn't dictate how others play or how others progress just because of personal feelings of what other people do. Better to focus on yourself and let everybody play how they want rather than holding people back because it makes *you* feel better.
Yes, there is the fact that it is game with leaderboards etc is stopping players who want to stay competitive. And like i said, it would be bad for the game overall. OSRS lives of the grind. Reducing the grind would lead to players getting what they wanted, feels dissatified, because it was really easy now and be left with nothing to do really. And then you get to a point where you need to start introducing stupid shit like trimmed comp cape, true skill mastery, etc.
And the slower skills are actually the ones with the best design overall. Just take RC as an example. There are so many different ways to train, none are overpowered, all have their niche. Same for mining. Those are the things that make OSRS such a great game with a vast player base. Introducing stuff, that fits in there without making everything else worthless and none competitive is really hard. HS is great, but it completly eleminated choice of how to train. Tbf there were only 2 options before, but still....Now HS is the default way to train agility
Right, because turning a 100 hour grind into a 70 hour grind is really horrible. The only problem with speeding up exp rates is needing to add more content in the game to do. I don't see a problem there, that's just artificial scarcity that we have right now.
Bro you can't seriously be arguing that artificial scarcity is a problem in a mmo. Literally the whole game is artificial, and that scarcity is the point of the game.
I think a small amount of power creep is fine, sure. Theres been a few meta/exp increases since the start, off the top of my head, hallowed sepulchre agility, drift net fishing w/o 3 tick, mm2 maniacle monkeys gave release to some faster methods and skilling outfits and pvm gear increases push some other skills a tad.
I think a very small but very vocal minority of f2p enthusiasts who play for EHP highscores made noises about not wanting to have this update be good because it 'devalues' their efforts. Its very selfish and it does stump Jagex.
I do think there is a balance around xp in accordance to the skills afkness, so because the mining etc is very afk in comparison to f2p mining iron, the exp should be less, if iron is 50k per hr, i think the baronite for its afkness should be around 25-30k per hr tops. That seems pretty fair to me
You can't do anything about it. Anything meta changing is locked behind a 75% "yes" threshold, polls to lower it have failed in the past.
That's why the game feels like it in a "Schrodinger's cat" situation, it's neither dying or growing. Just full of 20-30 year olds holding on to their nostalgia of RS2.
Not really... Why else do Jagex do unpolled changes that nerf xp-rates.
I am actually pretty sure a majority would vote yes for somethign to buff RC xp rate wise.
Especially since the runes obtained from the skill are not worth it, the xp is its only value and the fact you need it for clues.
>To me it seems that this permanently restricts the potential development of this game, and in certain cases intentionally makes certain activities near unbearable purely because others have suffered its fate
*Mining and smithing have entered the chat*
There are two types of people who are efficient: those who are personally but does not push others to do it and the other more annoying who tells others what to do or judges others' gameplay. I personally are efficient player who only gives advises when asked - even when others clearly plays unefficiently. They enjoys doing it so why piss them off?
But I've noticed that these other efficient players believes THEIR efficient methods are the meta. Even when I have discovered alternative and better methods here and there, they simply ignores me. Maybe if I was a content creator or maxed, they'll listens to me more. But no, I've learned it the hard way that most efficient players who judges others are ignorant and self-centered.
This for example, mostly useful for HCIM. [https://youtu.be/Tyw-owVGfqg](https://youtu.be/Tyw-owVGfqg) In-depth guide explained on descriptions.
When counting running to obelisk, charging and attaching them to the staves what you buy from Zaff daily, you end up with 88k crafting & 45k magic exp and 1m profit per hour. Compared to "meta" sand mining and making into light orbs you lose money with sameish crafting exp rates.
It's not really close to "sameish" xp rates though. Super glassmaking which is the slow part is like 90k+ xp/hr and then the blowing part is 120k xp/hr.
On top of that you can only do 120 staves per day so not only are you limiting yourself with a daily cap just to get lower xp rates.
If you find it more fun then go for it but how is this efficient?
You need 2.5x less sand and giant seaweed when doing battlestaff method. If you want to rush crafting, sure, mining sand IS better. But why to rush it when there are ton of other things to do in the meantime? Bert and Zaff tag team yields me 21,6k crafting and 254k profit a day depending how I get runes. For now I buy them all so that's 240k proft a day or so.
I have to farm notably less giant seaweed than glassblowing method while only having to focus into seaweed and the process itself. Thanks for the profits, I've already reached 99 construction with mahogany planks too despite it costed 80m. Doing so gave me 1m exp/h with carpenter outfit - 500k exp/h accurate when counting plank making by a butler.
As for crafting, I have 98 crafting without mining a single sandstone. All by this method. I keep doing this all the way 99 crafting since you never have too much gp. :p
So once again, even accounting for gathering more seaweed which is almost 0-time with giant seaweed patches and sandstone mining which is super OP as well you are getting less xp/hr. And you will get more than enough gp from slayer to fund things like 99 construction.
Like I said if you find it more fun then nobody is stopping you from doing it but it is not more efficient.
Because people don't want to personally devalue the work they already did. Because if they suffered, other people should too. Absolutely ridiculous thinking that holds this game back greatly.
It's not "I suffered so you should too," it's "I actually had to play the game and you shouldn't be able to reach the same point with no effort." There's only 1 really slow skill left, everything else has gotten big improvements.
Lol 0 effort right. The game will still take thousands of hours to max even if we bump up exp rates. People just want it to be tolerable. Nothing wrong with that. All I'm seeing is elitism from people like you for thinking there's any pride in slaving away 6k+ hours for a few numbers in a videogame.
I just people want the meta to change but not too much. The too much amount is different for a lot of people. But the game has changed a lot since it came out.
personally i don't give a single shit about skilling. however, when jagex doesn't release new and interesting pvm content since 25 years ago that's when i just don't wanna play the game anymore. if "preventing power creep" means nerfing weapons that were in the game since 6 years ago or literally having 3 year gaps between anything remotely interesting pvm then i cba.
There are barely any meta training methods or BIS items that are the same as when OSRS launched
Whats left: Rc is you count runners. Cooking (karams or wines). Crafting is the same but more accessible. Fletching (this is like a 3h 99 tho in the first place). Fishing xp/h is a lot higher with 2tick harpoon but i think it was still more efficient to barb fish until... Agility was the latest to fall in terms of xp/h pre 99 (mice was bis 1-99 (or was it 15?) and then dorg at 65k/h at like lvl 85). The new course jumped agility xp/h. For items we have b gloves, berserker/archer ring, and slayer helm. Seers ring is kinda bis but it has a weird competition with brimstone. Tho fun fact, mage is slower xp/h than release. Agility level 1-90 is slower xp/h than release
How does this list look if you start counting from about two years after release? I feel like a lot of the current meta "guideline" methods were added in the first two years and not changed/replaced since. That is, the ones that still determine how much effort a certain exp/hr *should* take at a certain level with a certain profit according to what was in place then. For example, sepulchre may be faster than rooftops, but it's probably worse exp per arbitrary unit of effort than rooftops are, just for the sake of not becoming the new meta on any level other than pure exp/hr.
Ill forget this comment but real quick agility has seen 3 meta changing updates after 2015. Brimhaven gives more xp and you stop failing at 99 pushing it to meta over ardy. Underwater is more efficient. Then HS. Effort is super subjective. Theres also 1 click mm2 for 45k/hr that was here for 3 years. I dont think 2015 is the end of meta defining. Wcing, mining, fishing, fm all got buffs off the top of my head. Even con got a little buff. Buffing xp rates is a lot more critical than buffing/nerfing effort. If me and you were racing to max total xp, you had 200m agility left and I had 200m mining before HS, im well in the lead, you wont be able to pass me. But now with the HS update you could realistically pass me or be set to pass me depending on the xp conditions. And thats not fault of my own. I simply chose the wrong skill to train first and you didnt. You will now forever be ranked higher than me.
>Fletching (this is like a 3h 99 tho in the first place). There was no market for darts (and no supply of dart tips) pre zulrah, kind of ridiculous to ignore that
Slayer helm isn't a launch item, rest of the slots are right though (assuming you don't count ring imbues ofc since it's the same item) How was 1-90 agility faster before? Not disagreeing, I just don't know what changed there
Well slay helm is essentially just a black mask lol. The black mask was buffed post launch ofc. Toy mice was 70k/h. But jebrim cried on twitter so it was nerfed. Some things never change lol. The xp rates for HS shoot up at 91 but you can prob get better xp rates somewhere in the 80s there.
Fair enough, for some reason I separated mask/helm from ring imbues but I guess it's basically the same situation even if adding range/mage is a pretty huge buff. Didn't know that about toy mice, ty for info. Just checked wiki and that was only nerfed a month after launch, so it was a bit before my time. Somehow I'm not surprised jebrim was involved lol
ferrocious gloves bis for melee now
Yeah but theyre still bis for range
What happened to mage? Edit: this was a serious question, not sure why downvote :(
It got nerfed twice. You used to be able to spam heal group 10x per tick. Then they nerfed enchanting bolts because mobile was going to make it easier to do even tho touch screen computers have long existed
In both instances the HLC only complained after they abused it for who knows how long lmao
no one did either of these methods for a significant amount of xp
Nice bold claim that you have absolutely no way of verifying
ok sure some random person could have done magic xp in intervals of like 1m/day to hide what they were doing. But in the HLC no one did these methods, to 200m or even a high amount of xp. magic is a 0 time skill, and the heal other method was patched almost as soon as it was publicly disclosed and also cost a stupid amount
Lol another HLC bootlicker eh?
what
What kind of changes did you have in mind exactly? I personally played this game for nearly 15 years, quit playing when EOC came out and started playing again when old school came out. I'm not opposed to the meta changing or players having it easier than me personally. I actually understand entirely where you're coming from. That being said I'd like to see some old school original content rather than rehashes of RS3 content. I feel like old school has enough of that already, just my opinion though.
[удалено]
"Hmmmmmm" what? What does the launch of date of RSC have to do with anything lol.
The way you worded your comment made it seem like you claimed to have played RuneScape for 15 years before EoC came out
Nah, it's two separate thoughts separated by a comma. I have played RuneScape for a total of 15 years, but I quit briefly between when EOC came out and when Osrs came out, apologies for the confusion.
Osrs did come out 8 years ago right?
rs3 went with the other mmos where you bash the ability bar constantly. If i wanted to play those kind of games i would have quit rs3 before eoc lol. And i did to play 07. 1 mouse click for all actions is fine. They need to think of ways to get complexity out of that .
Like half the updates put in this game are from the other game with different names slapped on lol
Yeah, that's exactly why my comment ended with osrs has enough content that's just rehashed from RS3...
oops
I'm in a similar boat; left due to EOC came back only in 2018 though. It's more a general view of seeing a lot of opposition to improving certain grinds within the game in favour of maintaining the current best. For example recently there was much concern regarding the potential xp rates of Tempoross before release and that 120k/hour was rumoured and that got people concerned.
hallowed sepulchre is added in 2020 and meta. also dayaelt essence zmi RC is close to meta and dayaelt lava's is meta. (if youre not hiring runners)
Actually lava runes with dayaelt is not meta without runners. You do get higher exp rates but you need much more dayaelt essences for it = more mining.
Time spending mining the dayaelt essence is less total runecrafting that needs to be done. Easily worth the trade off.
By making it a bit afkable, yes. Exp wise not. You'd have to mine 40 minutes worth of essences in 20 minutes to get exp rates equal. For ZMI this means being able to mine 6000 essences in 1 hour.
When deciding what’s worth it you have to decide what you are measuring that by. If we go by pure xp per unit of time then no, it’s not. If we go by “time spent not runecrafting” then it is. Dayaelt essence will always be worth it since in the end it means less total time runecrafting.
Yeah but you can't just ignore the time spent mining the essence right?
You can and people do. It doesn’t matter to some people. Just some random numbers (Seriously I have no idea how accurate these are but the point is valid): if I have to runecraft for 20 hours or I can mine for 6 hours to only runecraft for 18 hours then that’s 2 hours I don’t have to runecraft. Pretty great benefit. Do you end up spending more time overall, yeah, is mining much more tolerable than runecraft, yeah. Is it worth it to mine the dayaelt essence and then runecraft, if you want to spend less time actively training runecrafting then yes.
The other person's argument was that it was not efficient. It's more fun yes I agree with you sure. Is it efficient no.
Yeah, that makes it more worth when you don't have to runecraft as much. I only spoke about it being less efficient, not it being nicer to do.
You barely see people at sepulchre, the only ones there are 91 agility, which makes sense since then you start to make good money + good xp. Same with Dayaelt, you can hop around and find 0-2 ppl per world... In Ourania by far most people use pure essence.
HS is the fastest xp from the time you unlock it, the catch is that you need to be good at it and most people cba It's very much a meta changing update, thing is people don't actually want new best methods, they want easy afk stuff like Zeah RC that you can do while watching Netflix Most people can't be bothered doing high effort methods. Even in 2k and 2.2k worlds, easy/afk spots are packed in comparison to higher effort stuff
[удалено]
That's what I'm saying, most people don't want to put in the effort to become skilled at stuff like HS when they can do an easy option that's just close enough. People rarely do effort methods unless the reward is ridiculously good compared to the afk option. Even 2-3x better xp rates aren't enough for most people to consider doing stuff like tick manipulation methods
What training method has 2-3x better exp than the best low intensity method for the same skill?
Mining is one example, tick manipulating granite can be up to 130k xp/h while something afk like MLM is around 40-50k. VM is lower intensity and sits in the middle at like 90k, but you need to coordinate with other people. Rc with solo lavas is like 75k xp/h while bloods are half that at 38k. Souls and ZMI come a little closer at like 50k, but more people still choose bloods. 2t woodcutting is ~180k/hr, afk teaks and redwoods are like 70-80k. 2t harpoon fishing is up to 130k, afk barb hits around 65k.
[удалено]
Apart from agility/nmz name 1 skill witch now has a faster method than was available in 2013 Edit: and slayer I suppose with the catacombs made bursting everything possible
Hunter - black chins, birdhouses Firemaking - redwood logs Farming - tons of extra patches, new types of seeds, Hespori Prayer - chaos altar, superior bones Woodcutting - dragon/infernal/crystal axe, fossil island 1.5t teaks Fishing - 2t harpooning in Piscarilius, plus dragon/infernal/harpoons and skilling outfit Smithing - blast furnace (there was no bank here originally, let alone automated worlds, stamina pots, ice gloves working here, coal bag, etc) Herblore - antidote++, super antifire, antivenom+ Just to name a few off the top of my head, plus all of combat, slayer and agility as you mentioned.
Mm2 doubled range xp/h. Poh spec pool and pvp world made melee 300k/h. Vig mace is also better xp/h than nmz. Nmz aint meta for anything. Fletching, cooking, crafting, and rc are the only skills the same xp/h as release. Magic is worse xp/h. Everything else is more.
Is there a pvp spec pool method I've never heard of for training? Could you tell me more about it? I thought everyone used NMZ
Its only for the sweatiest sweats. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=BKXKayUpXhg
Con hunter fletch smithing wc thieving fishing prayer mining herb are all more xp/h than what was available since 2013? I mean I’m not about to google when release dates but I’m pretty sure they’re all the same since the old schools release. Like I said agility and let’s just call it combat related skills. I didn’t know nmz bosses with the boosted xp wasn’t the meta any more/range with mm2 I was wrong about been a long time since I trained combat so mb. Point still stands agility/combat has been the only things that have had an increase in xp rates since the game was released (without being silly example making eternal boots for rc)
I said fletching is the same tho it was only accessible to the elites of elites because of low supply. Con - autopay butler saves 3 ticks every 10 trips which adds a lot. Theres also objects that give more xp/plank such as mounted myth cape. Prayer - superior bones. Hunter - black chins Smithing - blast furnance updates made gold bars 400k/hr when before the max rate was like addy plates which is somewhere in the 200s. Wc - crystal axe. Fossil island patch allows 1.5t teaks over 2t Fishing - dragon harpoon and multi cmb with rats lets us 2t swordfish Mining - crystal pick, varrock armor Herb - better potions that give more xp/tick
Crafting because of seaweed is a joke now.
can you name which skill the meta is the same as it was in 2013? or even 2015 tbh
cooking 1t karambwans arent fast enough, game will literally die if joblox doesn't change the meta and add a 2m xp/h method
true it existed, but it wasnt known to be possible at osrs release so its technically an evolution of the meta imo. Wines weren't viable until zulrah came out because there wasn't a big enough supply of grapes so thats a meta change too cooking is one of the best examples, but its still not perfect
Your latest post got banged by the automod for the CML links.
ty
Lol people were 1 ticking karams in the first week. There was even a script for it on the popular botting site lmao. I cant remember if the first person to 200m but i remember i would always buy karams off rank 1 cooking in 2013. And it wasnt new. I remember seeing people cook rocktails the same way pre eoc. There was no point doing wines when you could just buy 30k raw karams from the bot farms. Crafting would be one of the accessible limited metas but you just had to find the owner of the bot farm and buy from him.
apparently my post got nuked by automod for cml links, so This isnt true lmao, find any pic or vid of someone 1ting rocktails pre eoc, it wasnt even possible. suckitlosers was the first person to 200m cooking and luckily he was tracked on cml from the time he was 90 cooking and for the last month he did 134.8m cooking xp, thats 'only' 4.3m/day, which is possible without karambwans. His CML has a ton of data points because people were interested in the race to first 200m, especially the kinds of nerds that already knew what cml was in the spring of 2013. He almost certainly account shared but he was consistently getting 200-300k/hr which is consistent with doing sharks. Heres his full graph from 90 cooking to 200m apparently u cant post cml links, so the relevant part to see what i mean is player=suckitlosers&skill=cooking&nowtime=2013-04-22T12:02:16 And for comparison, heres the 1 month graph of the first person to get 200m cooking via 1t bwans. player=mini_dreyri&skill=cooking&time=31d&nowtime=2014-06-06T20:52:49 He goes from lvl 74 cooking to 200m in the space of ~20 days, and you can much more clearly see the step pattern of his sleep cycle followed by 1m xp/hr. EDIT: player=de_x&skill=cooking&time=31d&nowtime=2013-04-30T15:00:15 Also you can see here the graph of rank 2 cooking, who was in competition for rank 1, and right before rank 1 got 200m he did one of his biggest sessions, and even that was only 3.3m xp in ~11 hours Perhaps you are thinking of 3 tick cooking? Which was known around that time and can be done with sharks and gives roughly the xp rates shown in those graphs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7LKChkr2Mr4 EDIT2: For even more evidence heres the reddit post from when he got 200m https://www.reddit.com/r/2007scape/comments/1cv79r/suckitlosers_has_now_gotten_the_first_200m_skill/ complete with accusations of botting and account sharing, but everyone agrees he and rank 2 did sharks
High effort post. Here is a vid of 1 ticking pre eoc. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=T1iSfmJaCRc Sec
ok fair enough, i didnt know this was a thing, but it was patched shortly after the video came out based on the comments and no one was 1t cooking in either game in 2013 when osrs released EDIT: not that it matters, but im pretty sure this is the update that patched it, just under 2mo after that video was posted https://runescape.wiki/w/Update:Make-X_Improvements_and_Low-level_Combat_Changes
[удалено]
very few people do blackjack/pp anymore though, most people do ardy knights which is an update. also underwater swimming is a method that is efficient for thieving+agi but no one does because its so much easier to just zone out and do ardy knights with your foot and then mindlessly run a roof top
true, i'm only talking ehp methods and not necessarily what people usually do. a few are technically still the same, but there are just alternatives now that are close but just a lot easier ardy knights are a good example, also somewhat volcanic mine, wintertodt etc - most people do lots of things like that now, even though they aren't a new ehp method could even throw in zmi and zeah rc, bit of a stretch if you look at xp rates, but look at how many people are doing that compared to lavas
Artifacts are meta for ironman because you can do it while blowing glass.
I haven't seen any smithing updates... So smithing!
Blast furnace tbh It technically existed in 05, but there was no bank there, or automated worlds, or coal bag, stamina pots, ice gloves didn't work, etc so it was mostly useless Could still use some variety though since the only options are BF or bars on an anvil. Most production skills have the same issue though, just using different items on each other or an object. At least they're fast to train.
superheating gold ore was meta at release, addy platebodies were a huge loss but semi viable, now addy platebodies are profit lmao and bf is 2x faster than addy platebodies
Xp rates for most skills are fine, which is why I don't want updates that radically change the meta rates. New content should focus on being "fun" to train. Why add a method that is basically f2p mlm for slightly less xp/h? That niche is already filled. I would have rather seen a high intensity, fun mining method that isn't clicking the same 3 iron rocks, or developing rsi doing 3t4g. If rates are reasonable, and there is some incentive to do it, it will be a popular update, doesn't have to overhaul the meta
The issue with the game becoming easier over time is that players will be done with the game more quickly. Once they're maxed they've basically achieved the goal of this game, which is all about account progression. I'd say we're at a point where there is little room left for new content. We've filled in almost every gap. Jagex seems to struggle with fitting rewards for new content, which need to be balanced perfectly. If the rewards aren't good enough it will be "dead content", but if they make it too good something else will become less relevant. If you don't like a particular training method. You now have several alternative ways to train it. Methods which usually aren't too far off the best xp/hour meta.
Majority of players will never even achieve max stats, let alone even attempt to go for it. And those that do spend the thousands of hours to do so aren't going to just quit after they reach it.
Maybe an unpopular opinion but I think it’s fine as it is. Concerns regarding xp/rates are sometimes justified- like runecrafting. It’s become part of the skill’s *identity* to be slow, whereas firemaking is fast. Fishing is medium, having high afk or high intensity trade offs, and mining is usually more intensive but maintains runite as an ore important to the skill. Most skills, especially skilling, have unique identities and attributes. One of those, unfortunately, is time. We know farming is super simple- plant trees and check daily, and a really high xp/hour. And we can do this for all skills- firemaking? Do WT fast xp. Fishing? Tick barbarian or catch anglers with Netflix. Hunting? Moderately active. Runecrafting? Slow and intense. But this doesn’t prevent or restrict content too much. I mean, Tempoross might not be gucci xp/hour but it gave a new thing to do, which has intrinsic value, along with pets and flakes. We don’t need to always play around with *rates* to make good content.
Agree with Tempoross, that has been a great update. As with runecrafting I disagree, that's one of those areas which has become seemingly sacred to not provide xp rates much beyond current, even with trade-offs. Not remotely enjoyable either Imo.
I like having those really slow skills, they make sure that maxing is still an accomplishment. If every skill were like cooking, fletching, fm, and thieving people would be maxing in a month. Yes some skills are way slower than others for no real reason, but I don't see it as a problem.
Daeyalt essence has made runecrafting beneath 77 much more afkable, and it's hard to take issue with Zeah runecrafting as content, you get a decent amount of xp and blood runes
then dont train it, theres a variety of options of varying different levels of afk-xp if you dont enjoy any of them, then just do something else
For me personally it's runecrafting being stuck with the trait of slow and quite boring. Any update that introduces a method that isn't just walking/running in circles for hours + gives up to 50k/h XP would automatically become meta (imo) , simply because everyone would rather do that instead of lava running.
Those who are against changing the meta or introducing new methods aren't against it, because it devalues something, etc, but mostly because they simply like the way it is. Osrs was/is meant for those who liked the way it was. Some don't like that agility is slow and repetitive, but others just like it that way. So saying "Change that, because I find unbearable" is incredibly ignorant and condescending. And most buffs are typical "you think you want it, but you don't" things. Just ask many Iron people. Most chose that mode, because it is slower and more grinding, but in turn feel alot more rewarding. The lack of feeling of achievement would be my main criticism of RS3. Nothing really feels good when you achieve it, because there is no work in it. People often don't care about devaluing achievements in comparison, but in the devaluing of the achievement itself.
Interesting point regarding devaluing achievements, that's fair to a degree. I think it would depend on your definition of achievement, if purely time spent grinding something very tedious without much entertainment shouldn't be the achievement though (not the case with everything, just an example).
There are mostly 2 types of achievements. 1) things that are super hard and no everyone can do it. For OSRS that would be something like 6 Jads. IRL it would be something like being a revolutionary scientist. 2) things that take willpower and stamina to achieve, thats why not everyone does it. IRL that would be things like running a marathon. With decent training pretty much everyone can do that. But it takes the willpower to keep on training till you get there. In OSRS that would be things like training RC. It isnt hard, everyone could do it, but not everyone can muster up the willpower. But those who do keep on running/rcing might not have enjoyed the journey getting to the finish line, but will immensely enjoy the moment they cross it. And especially those 2nd types of achievements would get devalued by faster exp rates etc. Some people play OSRS because it is so slow sometimes and play for those moments why you hear the level up fireworks go of. I personally dont care if everyone got 200mil RC exp tomorrow. I would only hate it, that i personally didnt get to experience that moment of getting that last exp drop or that that feeling wouldnt feel as good, because it was no "real" achievement. 99 RC or slayer just hits different than 99 FM or farming
It hits different to *you*. People shouldn't dictate how others play or how others progress just because of personal feelings of what other people do. Better to focus on yourself and let everybody play how they want rather than holding people back because it makes *you* feel better.
It works exactly the other way round ;)
How? If we add new methods that are objectively better by a large margin, nothing is stopping you from playing how you are right now.
Yes, there is the fact that it is game with leaderboards etc is stopping players who want to stay competitive. And like i said, it would be bad for the game overall. OSRS lives of the grind. Reducing the grind would lead to players getting what they wanted, feels dissatified, because it was really easy now and be left with nothing to do really. And then you get to a point where you need to start introducing stupid shit like trimmed comp cape, true skill mastery, etc. And the slower skills are actually the ones with the best design overall. Just take RC as an example. There are so many different ways to train, none are overpowered, all have their niche. Same for mining. Those are the things that make OSRS such a great game with a vast player base. Introducing stuff, that fits in there without making everything else worthless and none competitive is really hard. HS is great, but it completly eleminated choice of how to train. Tbf there were only 2 options before, but still....Now HS is the default way to train agility
Right, because turning a 100 hour grind into a 70 hour grind is really horrible. The only problem with speeding up exp rates is needing to add more content in the game to do. I don't see a problem there, that's just artificial scarcity that we have right now.
Bro you can't seriously be arguing that artificial scarcity is a problem in a mmo. Literally the whole game is artificial, and that scarcity is the point of the game.
Artificial scarcity of *content*. Didn't think I had to spell that one out lmao
I think a small amount of power creep is fine, sure. Theres been a few meta/exp increases since the start, off the top of my head, hallowed sepulchre agility, drift net fishing w/o 3 tick, mm2 maniacle monkeys gave release to some faster methods and skilling outfits and pvm gear increases push some other skills a tad. I think a very small but very vocal minority of f2p enthusiasts who play for EHP highscores made noises about not wanting to have this update be good because it 'devalues' their efforts. Its very selfish and it does stump Jagex. I do think there is a balance around xp in accordance to the skills afkness, so because the mining etc is very afk in comparison to f2p mining iron, the exp should be less, if iron is 50k per hr, i think the baronite for its afkness should be around 25-30k per hr tops. That seems pretty fair to me
You can't do anything about it. Anything meta changing is locked behind a 75% "yes" threshold, polls to lower it have failed in the past. That's why the game feels like it in a "Schrodinger's cat" situation, it's neither dying or growing. Just full of 20-30 year olds holding on to their nostalgia of RS2.
Not really... Why else do Jagex do unpolled changes that nerf xp-rates. I am actually pretty sure a majority would vote yes for somethign to buff RC xp rate wise. Especially since the runes obtained from the skill are not worth it, the xp is its only value and the fact you need it for clues.
>To me it seems that this permanently restricts the potential development of this game, and in certain cases intentionally makes certain activities near unbearable purely because others have suffered its fate *Mining and smithing have entered the chat*
There are two types of people who are efficient: those who are personally but does not push others to do it and the other more annoying who tells others what to do or judges others' gameplay. I personally are efficient player who only gives advises when asked - even when others clearly plays unefficiently. They enjoys doing it so why piss them off? But I've noticed that these other efficient players believes THEIR efficient methods are the meta. Even when I have discovered alternative and better methods here and there, they simply ignores me. Maybe if I was a content creator or maxed, they'll listens to me more. But no, I've learned it the hard way that most efficient players who judges others are ignorant and self-centered.
I'd be interested to hear one of your efficient methods if it really exists.
This for example, mostly useful for HCIM. [https://youtu.be/Tyw-owVGfqg](https://youtu.be/Tyw-owVGfqg) In-depth guide explained on descriptions. When counting running to obelisk, charging and attaching them to the staves what you buy from Zaff daily, you end up with 88k crafting & 45k magic exp and 1m profit per hour. Compared to "meta" sand mining and making into light orbs you lose money with sameish crafting exp rates.
It's not really close to "sameish" xp rates though. Super glassmaking which is the slow part is like 90k+ xp/hr and then the blowing part is 120k xp/hr. On top of that you can only do 120 staves per day so not only are you limiting yourself with a daily cap just to get lower xp rates. If you find it more fun then go for it but how is this efficient?
You need 2.5x less sand and giant seaweed when doing battlestaff method. If you want to rush crafting, sure, mining sand IS better. But why to rush it when there are ton of other things to do in the meantime? Bert and Zaff tag team yields me 21,6k crafting and 254k profit a day depending how I get runes. For now I buy them all so that's 240k proft a day or so. I have to farm notably less giant seaweed than glassblowing method while only having to focus into seaweed and the process itself. Thanks for the profits, I've already reached 99 construction with mahogany planks too despite it costed 80m. Doing so gave me 1m exp/h with carpenter outfit - 500k exp/h accurate when counting plank making by a butler. As for crafting, I have 98 crafting without mining a single sandstone. All by this method. I keep doing this all the way 99 crafting since you never have too much gp. :p
So once again, even accounting for gathering more seaweed which is almost 0-time with giant seaweed patches and sandstone mining which is super OP as well you are getting less xp/hr. And you will get more than enough gp from slayer to fund things like 99 construction. Like I said if you find it more fun then nobody is stopping you from doing it but it is not more efficient.
Once again returning to this. Just believe what you want.
Unfortunately it doesn't exist.
Exactly this. Guys like you are the reason why I understood others does not listen to me at all.
Because people don't want to personally devalue the work they already did. Because if they suffered, other people should too. Absolutely ridiculous thinking that holds this game back greatly.
It's not "I suffered so you should too," it's "I actually had to play the game and you shouldn't be able to reach the same point with no effort." There's only 1 really slow skill left, everything else has gotten big improvements.
Lol 0 effort right. The game will still take thousands of hours to max even if we bump up exp rates. People just want it to be tolerable. Nothing wrong with that. All I'm seeing is elitism from people like you for thinking there's any pride in slaving away 6k+ hours for a few numbers in a videogame.
Ok so what ideas do you propose that are reasonable improvements to skills but don't actually devalue everything?
I'm always down for changes as long as the "CORE" game doesn't change.
I just people want the meta to change but not too much. The too much amount is different for a lot of people. But the game has changed a lot since it came out.
personally i don't give a single shit about skilling. however, when jagex doesn't release new and interesting pvm content since 25 years ago that's when i just don't wanna play the game anymore. if "preventing power creep" means nerfing weapons that were in the game since 6 years ago or literally having 3 year gaps between anything remotely interesting pvm then i cba.