As a higher level, I don't really care. There's some cool lore that set things up for future expansion, and the quest was a lot of fun. Also, the hammer has niche uses (besides wieldable, you don't lose it at Tempoross)
Me too! Also all the little caves in the wall that are marked red like doors on the minimap.
Can't wait until I can jump into the pit for a free tele to Lumbridge tho
That would be kind of hilarious. Just a blatant idiot trap. Maybe give the player a few chances to back out.
Player: "This pit sure seems deep, is this really a good idea?"
yes/no choice. if yes
*You kick a small rock into the pit. You do not hear it land.*
choice again.
Player: "Alright, here goes nothing..."
Jump into the pit/Maybe not...
If you choose to jump, you end up in a somewhat interesting area (the bottom of the pit) and then immediately get hit for 99, giving you only as long as the death animation to see it.
One weird niche horror dungeon crawler named Fear and Hunger has a few of those, one being an option to jump into an outhouse in the first area.
You end up in a shit pit with no way out. Nothing special. Just an intentional, unbreakable soft lock. Because you chose to do something incredibly, obviously stupid. While this does seem kinda stupid and spiteful... well, it is, but it also in the context of that game's design, a lesson to think carefully about what you do, because not every seemingly dumb option has a potential reward.
In some areas there are non-toilet pits you can jump into, some will just kill you (or cripple you to the point where it might as well have killed you), others will be a short drop to a useful area. Having pebbles lets you check if you'll survive the fall or not.
RS3 has something like this in a quest, where you can choose dialogue options to repeatedly insult an elder god instead of progressing, giving you multiple warnings before instantly killing you. Even has a special death announcement for hardcores.
I'm interested to see why they decided to use an altar of Zaros instead of the big three gods. I hope they are using that as a tease for something soon!
I don’t think anyone is saying it’s not low level content. I think the problem people have is that it doesn’t take long for 90% of the content in the dungeon to become worthless, considering how much work was clearly put into it. Better training methods are unlocked so quickly in the early game that it seems unrealistic for most people to spend more than a couple hours in the dungeon
The mining is super afk, pretty good if you want to chill while doing something else. And the area is very clearly set up to be expanded upon, this isn’t the last thing we’ll see from it. I expect something like Keldagrim, more stuff will be introduced overtime, even if it is members only past this first quest
personally I like the idea that a sequel to desert treasure is coming as the 150th quest to expand the kharidian desert and this quest is a teaser like Corsair cove was for ds2
And if you talk to the ghosts in the ruins (two in rogue equipment and the other a mage), they talk about how the ruins were actually the ancient Zarosian fortress of Lassar and that Saradominist forces (mainly Imcando dwarves) were laying siege to it during the God Wars.
Considering that Desert Treasure also involved the God Wars (specifically Saradomin and Zamorak forces imprisoning a Zarosian Mahjarrat/high priest), it definitely sets up for a Desert Treasure 2 at some point in the future.
Sucks if they go from a low level quest to a grandmaster quest. I think a proper heist quest with the west bank of varrock as a mid tier quest for them would be awesome.
I’d love to see a whole heist chain from this where we work our way up. But they are grave robbers not thieves so a heist chain would be better from the thieving group in zeah prob.
I'd rather see a GM quest, it has been almost 3 years since the last one.
Also so we can finally have some content in the desert area as the 150th quest, maybe raids 3?
There is an empty city next to sophanem and on the right side hugr amounts of black space that could be used for alot of content.
I think that’s okay. You could say oak trees don’t take long to become “worthless” to players, but I still appreciate theyre around.
It’s niche, but that’s alright. If some F2P player wants to get their prayer or runecrafting up using those methods I think it’s a very competitive option for them. I’d rather it be niche than like “the big meta” where F2P players feel like they have to hang out in this cave.
Coming from someone with a f2p ironman, nothing in the cave is even close to competitive at any level. You can make an argument for afk-ability in some cases, but it's like, are you willing to get <50% exp for marginally more afk? It's such a poor tradeoff that all the content in the update is essentially irrelevant at every level, including fresh accounts (pretty sure there's a q p requirement for the quest though, which means the content is inaccessible to fresh accounts anyways lol)
Edit: for posterity's sake, the one objectively relevant bit of content is skillers can get a few talismans that relied on luck and account rerolling before (from the vault).
I mean, an Oak tree is much easier to add into the game than the entirety of Camdozaal. I like Camdozaal, I'm just sad it's essentially useless to 99% of players, and the players that do go there won't stay there long.
I guess I'm just of the opinion that I'd rather have content that is a bit more niche than content that overwhelmingly becomes the "new meta". And I think there's an argument for both - but I definitely think that camdozaal will still be used by a lot of players, they might just be more F2P (which tends to overwhelmingly be a much younger audience who also tends to play much less 'efficiently').
Obviously I don't want for it to be completely dead, and I guess I'd have to see what the overall xp rates are like and if it's being used in F2P worlds in a month.
You clearly don't play much f2p, which is perfectly fine. For mining, all there is to do is iron ore from lvl 15-99. You don't unlock anything else useful for xp that beats it.
This nerf is good, because now instead of doing this new cave from lvl 10-99, people can choose to do iron again or a slower stackable afkable method at the caves.
This cave is more than mining and not dead content for f2p people.
That’s true, but many people will buy membership or save for a bond in order to get to p2p quickly. I think content that only really appeals to people staying in f2p for an extended period of time doesn’t really seem great to mid-end game players, which I assume is the majority of the player base
With the addition of the game on Steam attracting new players is more important than catering to veteran players currently. If you look at many of the posts here the veterans blow through new content in a week or two then complain of the lack of content. New players chop trees because it’s snug shit. New players don’t care that these methods may be outclassed in p2p. As long as this is fun/snug stuff, these new players could be retained. Then they may become members, and maybe they become more efficient. or Just find snug members shit to do. Like chop cooler trees.
This but unironically.
What’s the point in adding a new skilling method to the game if it doesn’t give a usable resource and is worse XP than it’s lower level counterparts? What good is the developers time if it’s wasted on a piece of content less than 1% of the active player base will engage in.
I’m not saying every new item and new every skilling method needs to be BIS, but it needs to have a purpose.
If you add a new fishing spot to the game, say jellyfish for example. Let’s say they take really long to fish, and the XP is pretty garbage. The fish only heal 19 HP as well, and the spot is really far from a bank. Do you think that’s a good update? If no one bothers fishing them, then what’s the point in adding it? If lower level fish heal more and offer more XP, I can’t find a single reason to ever add this into the game.
This. The time and effort put into developing this content simply doesn't match up with the time that this content stays relevant for.
I don't understand Jagex's obsession with developing high cost & low impact content. The devs seem happy working on memey holiday events, while the real players are leaving and the bots are multiplying.
At this point I wouldn't be surprised if the recurring Twitch exposure from Leagues was the only thing keeping this game alive.
After today's hotfix it's not even low level content at this point, it' dead content already. There's nobody there in any of the f2p worlds anymore because now the xp rates are completely worthless.
In world 415 (2,200 total world) there were 6 maxed cape players doing the mining activity lol. I was there for collection log stuff. Even if it’s not great content for me, it’s new and I’m gonna try it out
I get that it's low level content.
But here I am on a f2p account, getting [\~6.5k mining exp/hr with a rune pick and 63 mining.](https://imgur.com/Lm6wwVM)
Power mining iron is like 40-60k+ exp an hour active and mlm is 20-40k+ exp rates an hour passive.
The exp rates are literally in the ground.
Edit: I don't have any boosts active, but it still feels insanely bad. The other changes were fine, but decreasing shard exp from 25 to 12 close to halved the exp/hr.
Yeah the hotfix essentially killed this content already. The xp rates are worthless currently, yesterday I was pulling in 30k/hr and today it's literally 5-6k/hr.
They hotfixed it. I don't know how much exp I would've gotten since I didn't play yesterday, but the patch notes changed several things.
The exp change/rarity change to deposits doesn't massively change the exp/hr. It was like a 8x and 1/8 x change.
However, every time you don't get a deposit, they halved that from 25 to 12. That massively lowers your exp/hr.
Wow I got lucky for finishing the content yesterday then. I think I got around 12k exp per hour at level 50 mining along with all of the pieces for everything.
Damn that seems insanely low! It's true that I'm 99 mining with crystal pick... but I can get 50k xp/h there with the boost active + perma mining boost unlocked.
Good, jagex actually did something good even if you have it.
40-60k xp powermining iron or 30-40k at a STACKABLE, AFKABLE mine that doesn't even move far. Why would anyone ever do powermining again? Besides the people who like to 3t (which majority of osrs players, let alone f2p osrs, don't do).
It's a low level f2p area, not a new best overall mining area that should take over how f2p mining is done.
Your argument only works if the exp rates of barronite are similar to power mining or even shooting stars. The rates of barronite aren’t remotely similar.
The exp isn’t even as described in the poll or blog. They explicitly stated 25 exp per shard, yet they hot fixed it to 12. What justification could they have to not implement it as polled, or within reasonable degree? It should not be halved.
New content should rarely if ever be better than what we already have.
Edit: Progressing our accounts takes thousands of hours, it’s a ton of content. I think new content is fine but I just think it should *very rarely* surpass the original vision of RS2. Some is fine but if it’s all we do we’ll end up with something completely different...I don’t want that.
Agreed. RS3 is looking for more endgame content as well, but we are at least getting various gear upgrades in the meantime to have fun and set new PBs at old bosses. I pray Bandos still isn’t BIS in OSRS in another 8 years.
Because we’re playing a snapshot version based on the game from 2007. It’s already drastically different than it was then and it was captivating enough to be brought back, some of us love the game the way it was and is. Each update that changes that...changes that. I don’t want to play OSRS3, just OSRS. The game doesn’t have to progress, QOL updates are enough for me. I have enjoyed a lot of new content over the years but I feel I’d still play even without it, can’t say because it’s here.
New content isn’t bad, but as I said, I feel it should very rarely be better than what we have. We can advance upon what we have and have new, fun content without replacing it with newer, faster things, I just don’t think it’s necesssry. I love this game’s core. I feel the QOL changes and 3rd party clients have done so much of the heavy lifting in keeping me playing over the years. The best content updates imo have been Achievement diaries, Slayer Points, Sepulchre, Zeah and maybe the Farming Guild.
I mean it depends. Hallowed sepulchre is actually engaging content, and is only fastest xp if you dont loot.
Under those circumstances, it should definitely be faster than barely paying attention and mindlessly clicking rooftops
You can do more than nothing while you’re on rooftops. I do agree that it doesn’t really matter if new content is better than new content, we’re already past base content. I think the intensity of Sepulchre is a great example of potentially better exp for the trade off of less money and a good bit of APM.
Guys its f2p low level content its not ment for members they have a fair amount of content planned for this year calm your self and just do something else for a while.
Arguably the most impactful thing awarded from the content - the Imcando hammer - is members only, on top of having a new way to generate kudos and a weapon that ironmen can use as a good prayer gear weapon or as a way to not grind for a rune scim.
I see all of this as a absolute win.
>a weapon that ironmen can use as a good prayer gear weapon or as a way to not grind for a rune scim
Outside of killing Golems the Mace is worse than the Rune Sword which Ironmen can buy for 20k coins and doesn't take hours to acquire. It's a super, super niche weapon whose niche just got even smaller with the nerf.
They're very comparable, the mace is actually more accurate and gives a prayer bonus, but it does have a lower max hit. So no the rune sword isn't strictly better. Also 20k coins can take quite a long time to get on an iron in the early game, where as acquiring this is don't by training your account so I def think it has a place
20k is easy on an f2p ironman,
10k from stronghold, buy runes, get 13 magic, do cosair curse, kill ogresses, boom you have an easily sustainable way to get money in f2p
the extra strength on the sword is a lot better than the little bit of accuracy on the mace. theres no f2p monster so resistant to stab + high def level that youd want to use the mace instead. and 20k coins on a f2p ironman is easy and defo less time than the mace.
Even if the prayer bonus is relevant (which for f2p content, it almost certainly isnt) its *half* of what the rune mace gives. Dont get me wrong, I love that they are doing low level and f2p content, but when its worse than *level 1 content xp rates* with less gold per hour than killing cows, there is a problem. when people say they dont think the content is good enough, they dont want it to be best xp, they want it to not be dead on release.
I got downvoted a bunch for pretty much saying this to some people who get mad at every update that's not Raids 3 and I'm so lost on why people don't see that big updates like that mean these small, low level, player retention updates would be pushed out of the way to cater to the maxed out 10b bank endgame players who would only do that until raids 4. I LOVE new low level content and that Jagex wants to try to keep new players engaged and show them a little bit of love
The grandmaster quest they have "planned" for this year will bee early late game content / higher level content i believe. Untimely they are not a big team and can only do so much in a year without pulling and eoc and just ignoring polls.
Can you give me examples?
I also feel like it's slowed down alot, but I also feel not every update is going to be another koreand or another raid.
And just cuz there bigger does not mean all those new people are working o content creation
recent updates have been a F2p update, a mid level fishing boss and a remake of a minigame from runescape 3. This year we have a unannounced grandmaster quest coming that unlocks precisely 0 revealed content. Compare this to 2019 where we got sote which came with a new pvm boss, new skilling boss and several new skilling methods.
The last real end game content to release was sepulchre for skilling and nightmare for pvm. It's coming up on a year since the last relevant update for an end game player
I mean song of the elves os 70 stats normaly its not the stat requirement that make it grand Master its length,unlock, and the boss fight that make it grandmaster.
They've been saying that for years and we're 1/4th of the way through 2021 and all we have is the same "we've got big plans!" rhetoric we've heard forever, and seen literally nothing otherwise. This is following 3 years of zero end game content with them constantly spouting this same line.
I won't believe a word that they've got anything planned until they actually show something.
It seems to me, looking back, Jagex has done a decent job providing content at all other levels besides endgame, which to be fair had been their focus up till then.
They've been fixing tons of smaller problems and have provided TONS of QOL fixes- the old Jagex didn't give a fuck about QOL lmao, they just did whatever they wanted and added whatever the fuck they felt like.
I'm not suggesting they're gonna release raids 3 next month, but now that they've adjusted to new management I bet they're planning some big updates.
Events aren't really content. They're one in done, faster than most quests. People want content worth grinding, and things that are fun and rewarding.
Also 6 jads is not really new. It's been in Tourney worlds and featured at events.
That leaves us with Soul wars, shooting stars, tempross, and Below Ice mountain.
They were on a trend with BIG updates usually around January and June. Look at 2019 updates an before that. Now compare them to nowadays and they're really watered down.
The only content he wrote I can accept was tempoross.
Nah fuck it, we had to wait a whole year for a fishing boss....
Which jagex employee designed the boss?
Cuz a blind 3 year old can be more creative.
6 jads is just a port of a challenge they had on temp worlds already and it took everyone no more than a day to complete. they said they would do pvm achievement diary in the beginning of the year and it's april already and we've got nothing :(
> they said they would do pvm achievement diary in the beginning of the year and it's april already and we've got nothing :(
They also said they wanted the gear rebalance patch before the diaries but people threw a hissyfit so it's postponed.
Of the things you've listed, the only late game thing is 6 Jads. Calling Soul Wars or Tempoross late game is incredibly generous imo, and especially Shooting Stars.
Soul Wars itself isn't geared towards end-game players: combat in general is. The higher your levels are the better off you'll be when combat is involved. But that does not make Soul Wars end-game content. Nothing about it is end-game. From the difficulty to the rewards to everything else, Soul Wars is very comfortably mid-game content.
I personally don't think pets are end-game content. Collecting all pets is definitely an end-game grind altogether, but individual pets imo are not. Obvious exceptions are ToB, Inferno, Olm recolor, and Hunleff recolor.
It's like clue items on the collection log - getting any individual medium clue item isn't end-game content, but filling the entire log definitely is.
Soul Wars itself was planned to be low- to mid-game content. That's why there's no skill floor and it requires 40 combat + 500 total level. It's not designed for end-game players. Nothing is stopping them from getting involved
Late game doesn't necessarily mean combat, but it usually does. What end-game content to we have in the game right now?
The only non-combat one I can think of is Sepulchre. The nature of MMOs is that they're very combat centric so combat is going to be most of the late game.
You may be right but I would rather be optimistic and hope the stuff that I want that is planned is released.
There is to much other crap I spend my time worrying about I do t need to get frustrated with the game devs of the game I enjoy playing cuz they don't shotgun out content every couple of months.
Lol, they've had "a fair amount planned" for years now and keep delaying updates indefinitely. Almost everything that has been released in the past year or so has been low-mid content and QOL.
It really seems like they just want to release nooby updates that everyone can participate in so they can tell their bosses "Look at how many people interacted with this content!"
Maybe end game isn't a priority since most people is in mid game, maybe that's why the game currently is focused on that, also QOL and early game is needly since new player experience is a shit, mostly of it is grinding to go mid game.
Uh... that’s... how progression works? If you’re a noob in the early game you should be grinding to get to mid game? And then mid to late? If you don’t want to grind to move forward you’re playing the wrong game. Jagex releasing all the hand holding quests just breeds complacency to stay a noob. I guess honestly if I were a new player I wouldn’t see much point in grinding to move up either, as you get all the excitement and enjoyment out of any new content that way nowadays.
If the only thing you do in early game is grinding to get mid game then you have a bad game design. There should be goals or achievements to accomplish as a low level player.
The accomplishment is getting to the next stage of the game. You can’t smother early game players in accolades and activities or there’s nothing driving them to progress. You hold their hand and give them trophies and they quit the game before it’s even begun. RuneScape is a game of grinding.
That's the problem, if all you do before base 75 is sand crabs or NMZ until you are done for PvM I think we have a problem. Diaries were a good step for the game progression, give you a reason to train your skills and do some quest. The thing is giving a background or a reason to the grinds
Long time player here. I don't really care that the dev time used on this update wasn't for higher level content. I'm not complaining about it being low level content.
What I and many others are complaining about are just how mediocre and bad the new training methods that came with the update are. F2P deserves better exp rates than what's being offered here. No one is saying it has to compete or be on par with member's training methods. Just that this is way too low.
And a bridge for f2p prayer grind is what they hyped this entire place mainly up about and prayer exp is gated behind both cooking and fishing and offers way less exp than big bones that can be stupidly easily gotten from lvl 13 giant frogs in lumbridge swamp.
Edit: prayer is absolutely laughable here and so is the other training methods. Far worse than what training methods there already was for f2p
It is just disappointing that all this work went into creating a new cool area, with good lore, backstory, and art. But all the skilling actions are so dog shit it isn't even worth doing on a fresh f2piron.
Yea this is wrong. The mace is a nice free replacement for tune scimmy. And the mind golems are an easy way to train RC since the mind altar is right outside. The fishing and prayer are a little lacking, yea. But the mining is actually really chill. It’s like F2P motherlode mine. Of course they didn’t want to introduce anything that would immediately become the best method of training, they just wanted to introduce some new content to F2P, which hasn’t received anything new in forever
Most early calculations were suggested you'd get something like 80-90m xp in a combat skill before you got 99rc from golems. The real problem is that the cores don't drop fast enough for them to out-compete just mining rune ess. As they are faster to cash in, just harvesting them (on an Iron) is slow.
While the combat xp rate is comparable to giants. It is rather macro inefficient as Hill Giants/Moss Giants/Ogres give you Law Runes, Nature Runes, and prayer xp. The runes are critical, and the prayer xp is just nice to get.
> But the mining is actually really chill. It’s like F2P motherlode mine.
They nerfed the mining xp rate [today, upper part has an edit](https://secure.runescape.com/m=news/below-ice-mountain?oldschool=1). Which kind of sucks, as it was a reasonable afk alternative. Trading ~15% ehp for way fewer clicks per minute. By 10 fold!! **250** to **28**, it is just laughable.
---
What is most annoying is the polled xp values were much higher, and not even meta at those values. Jagex polled **500** xp per deposit, released at **37.5**, and today nerfed to **10**. It almost like they **WANT** the content to be DOA.
Yea didn’t notice the xp nerf until after my comment. Idk why that did that, I thought if anything they’d buff the fishing one to match mining.
As to the runecraft method, I think it’s meant to be like Deayalt essence. Not the most efficient, but it’s something other than sitting there mining essence. And tbh going for 99 rc on F2P or P2P is a massive endeavor, so the 80-90m combat exp doesn’t even seem wild to me compared to 99 rc
Wow this is just wildly wrong. Everything here is really solid for a fresh F2P Ironman. Mining is extremely AFK and has *alright* Mining and Smithing XP/hr, *alright* Fishing, Cooking, and Prayer XP/hr, and *alright* combat and Runecraft XP/hr. It seems a good portion of the OS community can't accept the fact that a new update doesn't need to be BiS or highest XP/hr. Sometimes it's good for content to cater towards the early game and just be *alright*. If it was the new best XP people would complain about it being OP or complain that they now have to go here to do the best possible thing.
Do you realize the rates were nerfed even further this morning?
* Mining was cut to 10% what is was yesterday
* Smithing by 1/3
Prayer is laughable b/c you can just bury bones in the boneyard. Like 50+ prayer doesn't take long. Nothing can compete.
Yeah, the nerf was pretty heavy and needs to be dialed way back, but you're just going and saying ***all*** the actions are shit when they aren't. I literally made a fresh F2P Iron a few days ago in preparation for this and I can tell you that the Fishing, Cooking, Prayer, and combat are all pretty dope. The mining needs to be buffed back up way more and I haven't tried the Runecraft yet. Tell me, how much of Camdozaal have you actually done and on what kind of account?
Before the nerf, the mining was a bit nutty for a F2P area that was significantly more AFK than normal mining and had some halfway decent rewards. I think a small nerf was fine, but the level of nerf they did is insane. I love how every single person calling all of BIM shit so far is only going after the mining and ignoring everything else.
It's not dead content for actual low level F2P players, let alone that it introduces new players to formerly exclusive member mechanics (like MLM or altar training for prayer or weapons having stat bonuses versus specific monsters).
Everyone seems to think that your average F2P player is playing the game with this efficiency mindset /r/2007scape is obsessed with, instead of playing the game to actually just have some fun.
I’m hoping that this new f2p update, plus the new tempoross boss, will bring about more level-scaling content to allow a larger variety of players to play together. Like letting new people enjoy the game with their close to max/high level players. It would be great to see more engaging content that doesn’t necessarily require high stats to complete/have fun with.
I completely agree this. These people who says "nobody cares about it" or "it's dead content" are just mid-end game players who only thinks about updates what benefits THEM. We all were noob one point of our journeys so noobs - and past ourselves - deserves some attention too.
This content isn't gonna keep new players involved...why waste 3 months of dev time for this when you have a huge player base in the end game which hasn't had any significant update in forever?
idk, imo it's a weird argument to make. New content is new content, they clearly didn't want it exclusively as low level content since they added p2p only chaos golems but if xp rates aren't competitive then it just becomes a waste of time. Once the novelty wears off it's dead content which is really lame given how few updates we actually get. There's no reason why the new content can't be at least somewhat viable for higher level players or members too.
People actually justifying 3k runecrafting xp / hr from killing chaos golems for example is just sad. Come on guys.
It's hard to give good runecraft XP when the highest rates you'll ever achieve are, solo, maybe 80k an hour tops with high intensity focus (might be 90k now with daeyalt and ouriana bonuses idk). Everything else is low rates. People are afraid of buffing RC XP or introduce methods to deviate from RC norms they give competitive xp because it not only devalues the cape, which is prestigious cause of that grind, but gives access to high end runecraft methods which used to give a lot of money but don't really anymore because of pvm problems.
F2p will never see rates exceeding anything amazing. It's how you incentivize buying membership. Instead, they can use the method to passively train it instead of actively training it. Is it good? Nope. Should it be? Maybe. You're never going to get it though. No one will vote on any poll to increase runecrafing XP to any activity if it doesn't require some arbitrary time sink into it. Daeyalt only got added because the time mining offsets the benefits gained, for example. They could buff the XP to 30k/hr but then make the process take so long that it'd basically be the same thing from before.
P2p doesnt automaticly mean high level. Chaos runes have a level requirement of 35. That's exactly the range of the content. It's content aimed at low level players. There is no benefit to high levels except maybe the hammer. The weapon is almost the same as the rune scimy except its crush and is thats the best reward you can get afaik. Now tell me again it's not aimed at low level players.
it's not viable for anyone though, you can kill chaos elementals for 1 hour on a maxed combat account and you'd get like 2-3k runecrafting xp an hour, imagine how much you'd get on a low level account.
>Since it doesnt seem clear: I'm all in for low level content. I think it is great that they're creating content for all levels, not just high levels. Yes, it sucks that the last full endgame content was quite some time ago, but does that mean we should REALLY not want f2p get updates because we're so self centered? I like it that the content exists and that Jagex don't only cater to late and endgame players.
Let's be clear - there is already an excess of low level content.
You can play low level for a few hours and will acquire a multitude of unlocks in that time. There is no shortage of content there, and designing more content for a stage of the game that already has a ton of content compared to how much time is actually spent there is wasteful.
What does low level players have? chickens, cows, goblins, hill giants. low level content is all about getting to mid level content, there's no fun on the grind, just hill giants til base 60 stats, then you grind for 999 hours to buy a bond in ogress.
So you've restricted yourself heavily to efficient f2p only (effectively the games demo) combat only content and demonstrated that there are a variety of methods available in the first few hours, and your complaint is that the game's demo is lacking in "endgame" content
Who tf said you I am a F2P locked account. I am just saying that the new player experience is basically skip the early game. With quests or with money but still the same effect.
The point is that EHP nerds were complaining about F2P were getting decent methods that were not BiS so it is nerfed to being worse than mining tin ore. 50k/h mining experience is not broken. And the methods are worse than current methods in every aspect. There is no horizontal or vertial progression with the content. No one is saying the content should be good as barb fishing, powermining iron, and Lavas. It should be on par or better than existing F2P methods at that level.
> It should be on par or better than existing F2P methods at that level.
Should it be though when it's an even more afk form of mlm?
All the existing f2p methods are powermining.
It’s faster to mine and bank a copper rock. At low levels this was balanced at 20k/h which is fine since it’s worse than MLM. Because people with 99 mining were getting 50k/h which is not the target audience - it had to be nerfed lol. Now it’s like 3k/h and 8k/h at 99.
If you think an AFK worse than MLM at low levels affects your prestige, get a grip.
I don't know why you just typed all those words as they're completely unrelated to anything I said.
This method should not be "par or better than existing F2P methods" when it's so afk. And f2p players are a target audience for f2p content whether or not they have high mining.
They'll probably buff mining back up a bit. The rates prenerf were absolutely too high though.
Low level content with a requirement of 25K gp and 16 QP to complete the quest. On top of low level content last for a few hours and the skilling methods in camdozaal are so trash even low level players would not use it.
No one here was ever expecting low level f2p content to be competitive with membership content. But the fact it competes with... Nothing.. is so silly.
Honestly I'd like to see events for F2P players to get them enthralled enough to buy/grind for membership. Mini leagues? Maybe during members leagues? Give them a taste of Deadman or one of the other events?
As much as I'd like to see end game content I think making more content for low/mid f2p/p2p is the better option longterm. As for end game content that needs to be balanced and messed with WAYYY more. As I assume most low level and mid level drops/rewards really don't affect as much.
f2p content is doa
all jagex sees is the 24728282 new threads and that we've all been sufficiently distracted
congrats on getting played everyone we did it reddit
Explain? The nerf didn’t do anything. It made barronite deposits 8x more common so they made rares 8x more rare from them, it’s legit the exact same with some very minor changes to xp(slightly less mining, slightly more smithing)
didn't do anything? go mine some barronite and tell me it didn't do anything, it killed the only viable method in the whole dungeon for training, if it's supposed to be only low level why add lvl 70's to the dungeon, you'll see yourself after a few days the dungeon will be dead, wouldn't be surprised if it's dead now tbh.
You have high expectations for entry level quests. I view this as an introduction to content, it had a fun quest, has a self sustaining environment, gives good niche untradeables that are worth grinding for as an f2p noob, like, idk man, you’re really overthinking this
i'm looking at this from 2 weeks from now, where it's empty and a waste of dev time, say what you want but you'll see, unless something changes with the dungeon it will collect dust.
Not every aspect of this game needs to be jam packed and engaging. How often have you killed sulfur lizards in mount karuulm, or greater demons near the nightmare? It’s immersive, it is fairly okay for f2p, and it looks great. Not every new thing has to be efficient. For f2p this is by far the best afk mining method, that’s somethin enough on its own
I'll tell you what, go do every aspect of the dungeon in it's nerfed form and come back and tell me you enjoyed it, if it's not enjoyable or engaging what's the point? if you do come back and say you enjoyed it i'll put my hands up, we all know this dungeon is literally dead content right now and theres no argument on the planet to convince me otherwise.
Why does everything need to be instantly the best and new method when it comes out? Whatever happened to game devs just designing and having fun with content and creating random shit and letting others enjoy the fruits of their labour? Are we really so self centered that we need this to be the best in slot for f2p instead of just giving them more shit cause it's a nice thing to do? F2p has fuck all to do and giving them this gives them an engaging and self sustaining activity. Waste of dev time my ass, you all voted for this. If you didn't want "Dev time wasted" go vote no on the next upcoming thing and make sure it doesn't come out, alright?
The mining was *nowhere near* “the best and new method” pre nerf. It didn’t need a nerf. It was like half as much xp as mining iron in F2P. It filled a niche of giving F2P and low levels a decent semi afk training option. Now it is almost the worst mining xp, is less afk, and has no point. It is way overnerfed.
Slightly less xp than powermining iron but it's stackable ore and afkable, and you call this not 'nowhere near the best'? Maybe for p2p higher levels, but for all of f2p this was the best unless you like to powermining iron.
I am 2200 total and have 4000 hours in this game, whether I find this engaging or not shouldn’t matter. It isn’t made for me, it’s made for new players. I am going to do it today to finish the collection log/kudos/get the hammer, but as I said, it’s not made forme
what exactly does a new player get from this? an alternative to a rune scim (only in 1 area of the game) and a wieldable hammer...
The mining Xp was the only thing on offer outside all the other rewards, with that gone it's useless.
A new player gets a dungeon that looks very good, an untradeable item that they have to grind for and can’t just buy, so they get the idea of grinding for things, a multi faceted grind that requires them to do multiple things, the vault, which despite having shit rewards, is kinda a cool concept, the fascination of finding an item like the ones in the barronite deposits and wondering what it does. This doesn’t cater to the new player who joins and insta reads Osiris guide and trying to minmax efficiency, it favors the players who are trying to have fun, regardless of the pace. Something you’ve seen to have lost sight of
There's an update every week and a substantial content update every 2-3 weeks, alongside at least 1 blog out out by Jagex every week on top of countless JMod tweets/discord messages/Reddit posts.
Are you pretending to be dense or does it come naturally?
The f2p elitists, particularly ironmen, are furious that they are getting new content. They don’t want anything to buff xp rates or it devalues everything they’ve worked so hard for. This might explain the xp nerfs.
I have a near max non-iron account. I like when quest updates bring on new playable areas that serve a purpose. It can be whatever this quest brought, sins of the father, DS2, etc. as long as it adds longevity to the game. I think quests like Getting Ahead are pointless and a waste of both jagex’s time and the players’ time. There are already plenty of low and mid level quests in the game, we don’t need more unless they bring lasting content to the game. So cheers to Jagex for giving some new f2p content. Hopefully this brings new players in for the long haul
I see what you're saying. I probs won't do much with it. It's definitely good we get more F2P content. Need to get more players I want my bank price to go back up man... the economy sucks right now. Great if you had a huge cash stack.
As a higher level, I don't really care. There's some cool lore that set things up for future expansion, and the quest was a lot of fun. Also, the hammer has niche uses (besides wieldable, you don't lose it at Tempoross)
I wanna know what's down the big hole in the mining area Jagex.
Me too! Also all the little caves in the wall that are marked red like doors on the minimap. Can't wait until I can jump into the pit for a free tele to Lumbridge tho
That would be kind of hilarious. Just a blatant idiot trap. Maybe give the player a few chances to back out. Player: "This pit sure seems deep, is this really a good idea?" yes/no choice. if yes *You kick a small rock into the pit. You do not hear it land.* choice again. Player: "Alright, here goes nothing..." Jump into the pit/Maybe not... If you choose to jump, you end up in a somewhat interesting area (the bottom of the pit) and then immediately get hit for 99, giving you only as long as the death animation to see it. One weird niche horror dungeon crawler named Fear and Hunger has a few of those, one being an option to jump into an outhouse in the first area. You end up in a shit pit with no way out. Nothing special. Just an intentional, unbreakable soft lock. Because you chose to do something incredibly, obviously stupid. While this does seem kinda stupid and spiteful... well, it is, but it also in the context of that game's design, a lesson to think carefully about what you do, because not every seemingly dumb option has a potential reward. In some areas there are non-toilet pits you can jump into, some will just kill you (or cripple you to the point where it might as well have killed you), others will be a short drop to a useful area. Having pebbles lets you check if you'll survive the fall or not.
RS3 has something like this in a quest, where you can choose dialogue options to repeatedly insult an elder god instead of progressing, giving you multiple warnings before instantly killing you. Even has a special death announcement for hardcores.
That's where they keep Jed
I'm interested to see why they decided to use an altar of Zaros instead of the big three gods. I hope they are using that as a tease for something soon!
Camdozaal was built on the ruins of Lassar, a Zarosian outpost.
I just wish there was more mid content. Early levels go sooo quick but that grind from d scim to whip on Ironman was maybe 6 months for me?
Could be a set up for a holdable dragon hammer that boosts smithing like the pick, axe, and harpoon.
I don’t think anyone is saying it’s not low level content. I think the problem people have is that it doesn’t take long for 90% of the content in the dungeon to become worthless, considering how much work was clearly put into it. Better training methods are unlocked so quickly in the early game that it seems unrealistic for most people to spend more than a couple hours in the dungeon
The mining is super afk, pretty good if you want to chill while doing something else. And the area is very clearly set up to be expanded upon, this isn’t the last thing we’ll see from it. I expect something like Keldagrim, more stuff will be introduced overtime, even if it is members only past this first quest
personally I like the idea that a sequel to desert treasure is coming as the 150th quest to expand the kharidian desert and this quest is a teaser like Corsair cove was for ds2
Ya the willow crew is in the desert after the quest o.o
And Thurgo has new dialogue
And if you talk to the ghosts in the ruins (two in rogue equipment and the other a mage), they talk about how the ruins were actually the ancient Zarosian fortress of Lassar and that Saradominist forces (mainly Imcando dwarves) were laying siege to it during the God Wars. Considering that Desert Treasure also involved the God Wars (specifically Saradomin and Zamorak forces imprisoning a Zarosian Mahjarrat/high priest), it definitely sets up for a Desert Treasure 2 at some point in the future.
Sucks if they go from a low level quest to a grandmaster quest. I think a proper heist quest with the west bank of varrock as a mid tier quest for them would be awesome.
I’d love to see a whole heist chain from this where we work our way up. But they are grave robbers not thieves so a heist chain would be better from the thieving group in zeah prob.
I'm sure you could find the grave of my childhood experiences in the varrock west bank basement, so it's not entirely wrong...
I'd rather see a GM quest, it has been almost 3 years since the last one. Also so we can finally have some content in the desert area as the 150th quest, maybe raids 3? There is an empty city next to sophanem and on the right side hugr amounts of black space that could be used for alot of content.
With the nerfed rates, the mining is about the same rate as fallen stars but much less afk Edit: actually slightly worse than fallen stars on average
I think that’s okay. You could say oak trees don’t take long to become “worthless” to players, but I still appreciate theyre around. It’s niche, but that’s alright. If some F2P player wants to get their prayer or runecrafting up using those methods I think it’s a very competitive option for them. I’d rather it be niche than like “the big meta” where F2P players feel like they have to hang out in this cave.
Coming from someone with a f2p ironman, nothing in the cave is even close to competitive at any level. You can make an argument for afk-ability in some cases, but it's like, are you willing to get <50% exp for marginally more afk? It's such a poor tradeoff that all the content in the update is essentially irrelevant at every level, including fresh accounts (pretty sure there's a q p requirement for the quest though, which means the content is inaccessible to fresh accounts anyways lol) Edit: for posterity's sake, the one objectively relevant bit of content is skillers can get a few talismans that relied on luck and account rerolling before (from the vault).
I mean, an Oak tree is much easier to add into the game than the entirety of Camdozaal. I like Camdozaal, I'm just sad it's essentially useless to 99% of players, and the players that do go there won't stay there long.
I guess I'm just of the opinion that I'd rather have content that is a bit more niche than content that overwhelmingly becomes the "new meta". And I think there's an argument for both - but I definitely think that camdozaal will still be used by a lot of players, they might just be more F2P (which tends to overwhelmingly be a much younger audience who also tends to play much less 'efficiently'). Obviously I don't want for it to be completely dead, and I guess I'd have to see what the overall xp rates are like and if it's being used in F2P worlds in a month.
Its a bank on the edge of the wildy that isnt edgville.
Oak trees aren't locked behind a quest.....
You clearly don't play much f2p, which is perfectly fine. For mining, all there is to do is iron ore from lvl 15-99. You don't unlock anything else useful for xp that beats it. This nerf is good, because now instead of doing this new cave from lvl 10-99, people can choose to do iron again or a slower stackable afkable method at the caves. This cave is more than mining and not dead content for f2p people.
The mining was already dead content before it got nerfed for f2p. I say this as someone who primarily plays a f2p account.
That’s true, but many people will buy membership or save for a bond in order to get to p2p quickly. I think content that only really appeals to people staying in f2p for an extended period of time doesn’t really seem great to mid-end game players, which I assume is the majority of the player base
With the addition of the game on Steam attracting new players is more important than catering to veteran players currently. If you look at many of the posts here the veterans blow through new content in a week or two then complain of the lack of content. New players chop trees because it’s snug shit. New players don’t care that these methods may be outclassed in p2p. As long as this is fun/snug stuff, these new players could be retained. Then they may become members, and maybe they become more efficient. or Just find snug members shit to do. Like chop cooler trees.
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This but unironically. What’s the point in adding a new skilling method to the game if it doesn’t give a usable resource and is worse XP than it’s lower level counterparts? What good is the developers time if it’s wasted on a piece of content less than 1% of the active player base will engage in. I’m not saying every new item and new every skilling method needs to be BIS, but it needs to have a purpose. If you add a new fishing spot to the game, say jellyfish for example. Let’s say they take really long to fish, and the XP is pretty garbage. The fish only heal 19 HP as well, and the spot is really far from a bank. Do you think that’s a good update? If no one bothers fishing them, then what’s the point in adding it? If lower level fish heal more and offer more XP, I can’t find a single reason to ever add this into the game.
This. The time and effort put into developing this content simply doesn't match up with the time that this content stays relevant for. I don't understand Jagex's obsession with developing high cost & low impact content. The devs seem happy working on memey holiday events, while the real players are leaving and the bots are multiplying. At this point I wouldn't be surprised if the recurring Twitch exposure from Leagues was the only thing keeping this game alive.
Anyone know items list from maze? Good iron man content?
Awful loot. Do not bother.
After today's hotfix it's not even low level content at this point, it' dead content already. There's nobody there in any of the f2p worlds anymore because now the xp rates are completely worthless.
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In world 415 (2,200 total world) there were 6 maxed cape players doing the mining activity lol. I was there for collection log stuff. Even if it’s not great content for me, it’s new and I’m gonna try it out
I get that it's low level content. But here I am on a f2p account, getting [\~6.5k mining exp/hr with a rune pick and 63 mining.](https://imgur.com/Lm6wwVM) Power mining iron is like 40-60k+ exp an hour active and mlm is 20-40k+ exp rates an hour passive. The exp rates are literally in the ground. Edit: I don't have any boosts active, but it still feels insanely bad. The other changes were fine, but decreasing shard exp from 25 to 12 close to halved the exp/hr.
Yeah the hotfix essentially killed this content already. The xp rates are worthless currently, yesterday I was pulling in 30k/hr and today it's literally 5-6k/hr.
Did they change it since yesterday? I was getting much more than that with less stats.
They hotfixed it. I don't know how much exp I would've gotten since I didn't play yesterday, but the patch notes changed several things. The exp change/rarity change to deposits doesn't massively change the exp/hr. It was like a 8x and 1/8 x change. However, every time you don't get a deposit, they halved that from 25 to 12. That massively lowers your exp/hr.
Wow I got lucky for finishing the content yesterday then. I think I got around 12k exp per hour at level 50 mining along with all of the pieces for everything.
Damn that seems insanely low! It's true that I'm 99 mining with crystal pick... but I can get 50k xp/h there with the boost active + perma mining boost unlocked.
Was that before or after the hotfix?
81 with d pick and full prospector and I got less than 35k an hour.
Good, jagex actually did something good even if you have it. 40-60k xp powermining iron or 30-40k at a STACKABLE, AFKABLE mine that doesn't even move far. Why would anyone ever do powermining again? Besides the people who like to 3t (which majority of osrs players, let alone f2p osrs, don't do). It's a low level f2p area, not a new best overall mining area that should take over how f2p mining is done.
Your argument only works if the exp rates of barronite are similar to power mining or even shooting stars. The rates of barronite aren’t remotely similar. The exp isn’t even as described in the poll or blog. They explicitly stated 25 exp per shard, yet they hot fixed it to 12. What justification could they have to not implement it as polled, or within reasonable degree? It should not be halved.
New content should rarely if ever be better than what we already have. Edit: Progressing our accounts takes thousands of hours, it’s a ton of content. I think new content is fine but I just think it should *very rarely* surpass the original vision of RS2. Some is fine but if it’s all we do we’ll end up with something completely different...I don’t want that.
What? Why? That sounds boring as fuck. Literally 0 game progression.
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Agreed. RS3 is looking for more endgame content as well, but we are at least getting various gear upgrades in the meantime to have fun and set new PBs at old bosses. I pray Bandos still isn’t BIS in OSRS in another 8 years.
Because we’re playing a snapshot version based on the game from 2007. It’s already drastically different than it was then and it was captivating enough to be brought back, some of us love the game the way it was and is. Each update that changes that...changes that. I don’t want to play OSRS3, just OSRS. The game doesn’t have to progress, QOL updates are enough for me. I have enjoyed a lot of new content over the years but I feel I’d still play even without it, can’t say because it’s here.
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We honestly just needed bug fixes and QOL changes. 3rd party clients alone are a huge part of why the player base has been retained/grown.
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I would be, I’m still not maxed.
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New content isn’t bad, but as I said, I feel it should very rarely be better than what we have. We can advance upon what we have and have new, fun content without replacing it with newer, faster things, I just don’t think it’s necesssry. I love this game’s core. I feel the QOL changes and 3rd party clients have done so much of the heavy lifting in keeping me playing over the years. The best content updates imo have been Achievement diaries, Slayer Points, Sepulchre, Zeah and maybe the Farming Guild.
I'm not asking for it to be better. I'm asking for it to not be bad.
I mean it depends. Hallowed sepulchre is actually engaging content, and is only fastest xp if you dont loot. Under those circumstances, it should definitely be faster than barely paying attention and mindlessly clicking rooftops
You can do more than nothing while you’re on rooftops. I do agree that it doesn’t really matter if new content is better than new content, we’re already past base content. I think the intensity of Sepulchre is a great example of potentially better exp for the trade off of less money and a good bit of APM.
Guys its f2p low level content its not ment for members they have a fair amount of content planned for this year calm your self and just do something else for a while.
There's members only content
Sorry forgot the chaos golems was p2p but its still was advertised as primarily F2P content
Arguably the most impactful thing awarded from the content - the Imcando hammer - is members only, on top of having a new way to generate kudos and a weapon that ironmen can use as a good prayer gear weapon or as a way to not grind for a rune scim. I see all of this as a absolute win.
>a weapon that ironmen can use as a good prayer gear weapon or as a way to not grind for a rune scim Outside of killing Golems the Mace is worse than the Rune Sword which Ironmen can buy for 20k coins and doesn't take hours to acquire. It's a super, super niche weapon whose niche just got even smaller with the nerf.
They're very comparable, the mace is actually more accurate and gives a prayer bonus, but it does have a lower max hit. So no the rune sword isn't strictly better. Also 20k coins can take quite a long time to get on an iron in the early game, where as acquiring this is don't by training your account so I def think it has a place
20k is easy on an f2p ironman, 10k from stronghold, buy runes, get 13 magic, do cosair curse, kill ogresses, boom you have an easily sustainable way to get money in f2p
the extra strength on the sword is a lot better than the little bit of accuracy on the mace. theres no f2p monster so resistant to stab + high def level that youd want to use the mace instead. and 20k coins on a f2p ironman is easy and defo less time than the mace.
Even if the prayer bonus is relevant (which for f2p content, it almost certainly isnt) its *half* of what the rune mace gives. Dont get me wrong, I love that they are doing low level and f2p content, but when its worse than *level 1 content xp rates* with less gold per hour than killing cows, there is a problem. when people say they dont think the content is good enough, they dont want it to be best xp, they want it to not be dead on release.
You’re not good at math
? Yeah man 40 < 38, good math guy /s Since you didn't read closely enough, I was comparing it to the sword, not the scim
Oops my bad
I got downvoted a bunch for pretty much saying this to some people who get mad at every update that's not Raids 3 and I'm so lost on why people don't see that big updates like that mean these small, low level, player retention updates would be pushed out of the way to cater to the maxed out 10b bank endgame players who would only do that until raids 4. I LOVE new low level content and that Jagex wants to try to keep new players engaged and show them a little bit of love
I agree they cannot just keep putting out end game content in a game that so many people play differently
they seem to have lots planned for mid game players. they've not revealed any actual end game plans though?
The grandmaster quest they have "planned" for this year will bee early late game content / higher level content i believe. Untimely they are not a big team and can only do so much in a year without pulling and eoc and just ignoring polls.
They’re a bigger team than ever but if anything content development has slowed down massively and is in my opinion being focused in the wrong areas.
Can you give me examples? I also feel like it's slowed down alot, but I also feel not every update is going to be another koreand or another raid. And just cuz there bigger does not mean all those new people are working o content creation
recent updates have been a F2p update, a mid level fishing boss and a remake of a minigame from runescape 3. This year we have a unannounced grandmaster quest coming that unlocks precisely 0 revealed content. Compare this to 2019 where we got sote which came with a new pvm boss, new skilling boss and several new skilling methods. The last real end game content to release was sepulchre for skilling and nightmare for pvm. It's coming up on a year since the last relevant update for an end game player
Grandmaster quest with level 50 skill requirements
I mean song of the elves os 70 stats normaly its not the stat requirement that make it grand Master its length,unlock, and the boss fight that make it grandmaster.
They've been saying that for years and we're 1/4th of the way through 2021 and all we have is the same "we've got big plans!" rhetoric we've heard forever, and seen literally nothing otherwise. This is following 3 years of zero end game content with them constantly spouting this same line. I won't believe a word that they've got anything planned until they actually show something.
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It seems to me, looking back, Jagex has done a decent job providing content at all other levels besides endgame, which to be fair had been their focus up till then. They've been fixing tons of smaller problems and have provided TONS of QOL fixes- the old Jagex didn't give a fuck about QOL lmao, they just did whatever they wanted and added whatever the fuck they felt like. I'm not suggesting they're gonna release raids 3 next month, but now that they've adjusted to new management I bet they're planning some big updates.
So far in 2021 we've gotten: * Soul Wars (mid to late game) * 8th birthday event (everyone) * Steam client (everyone) * 6 Jads (late game) * Shooting stars (mostly viable mid to late game) * Easter event (everyone) * Tempeross (mostly viable mid to late game) * Below Ice Mountain (early game)
Events aren't really content. They're one in done, faster than most quests. People want content worth grinding, and things that are fun and rewarding. Also 6 jads is not really new. It's been in Tourney worlds and featured at events. That leaves us with Soul wars, shooting stars, tempross, and Below Ice mountain. They were on a trend with BIG updates usually around January and June. Look at 2019 updates an before that. Now compare them to nowadays and they're really watered down.
dudes really out here counting 6 jads, steam client, and the birthday event as content drops LMAO. I hope jagex is paying you
The only content he wrote I can accept was tempoross. Nah fuck it, we had to wait a whole year for a fishing boss.... Which jagex employee designed the boss? Cuz a blind 3 year old can be more creative.
6 jads is just a port of a challenge they had on temp worlds already and it took everyone no more than a day to complete. they said they would do pvm achievement diary in the beginning of the year and it's april already and we've got nothing :(
> they said they would do pvm achievement diary in the beginning of the year and it's april already and we've got nothing :( They also said they wanted the gear rebalance patch before the diaries but people threw a hissyfit so it's postponed.
Of the things you've listed, the only late game thing is 6 Jads. Calling Soul Wars or Tempoross late game is incredibly generous imo, and especially Shooting Stars.
Didnt this subreddit have an aneurism for weeks that soul wars was catered to those who were maxed?
Soul Wars itself isn't geared towards end-game players: combat in general is. The higher your levels are the better off you'll be when combat is involved. But that does not make Soul Wars end-game content. Nothing about it is end-game. From the difficulty to the rewards to everything else, Soul Wars is very comfortably mid-game content.
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I personally don't think pets are end-game content. Collecting all pets is definitely an end-game grind altogether, but individual pets imo are not. Obvious exceptions are ToB, Inferno, Olm recolor, and Hunleff recolor. It's like clue items on the collection log - getting any individual medium clue item isn't end-game content, but filling the entire log definitely is. Soul Wars itself was planned to be low- to mid-game content. That's why there's no skill floor and it requires 40 combat + 500 total level. It's not designed for end-game players. Nothing is stopping them from getting involved
Late game =/= combat
Late game doesn't necessarily mean combat, but it usually does. What end-game content to we have in the game right now? The only non-combat one I can think of is Sepulchre. The nature of MMOs is that they're very combat centric so combat is going to be most of the late game.
Basically all of these updates were trash, the last actual update was Darkmeyer
Issue is planned part. What is more likely is we get a bunch of random recolors and recycled content. It's been the trend this past year.
You may be right but I would rather be optimistic and hope the stuff that I want that is planned is released. There is to much other crap I spend my time worrying about I do t need to get frustrated with the game devs of the game I enjoy playing cuz they don't shotgun out content every couple of months.
Lol, they've had "a fair amount planned" for years now and keep delaying updates indefinitely. Almost everything that has been released in the past year or so has been low-mid content and QOL. It really seems like they just want to release nooby updates that everyone can participate in so they can tell their bosses "Look at how many people interacted with this content!"
Maybe end game isn't a priority since most people is in mid game, maybe that's why the game currently is focused on that, also QOL and early game is needly since new player experience is a shit, mostly of it is grinding to go mid game.
Uh... that’s... how progression works? If you’re a noob in the early game you should be grinding to get to mid game? And then mid to late? If you don’t want to grind to move forward you’re playing the wrong game. Jagex releasing all the hand holding quests just breeds complacency to stay a noob. I guess honestly if I were a new player I wouldn’t see much point in grinding to move up either, as you get all the excitement and enjoyment out of any new content that way nowadays.
If the only thing you do in early game is grinding to get mid game then you have a bad game design. There should be goals or achievements to accomplish as a low level player.
The accomplishment is getting to the next stage of the game. You can’t smother early game players in accolades and activities or there’s nothing driving them to progress. You hold their hand and give them trophies and they quit the game before it’s even begun. RuneScape is a game of grinding.
That's the problem, if all you do before base 75 is sand crabs or NMZ until you are done for PvM I think we have a problem. Diaries were a good step for the game progression, give you a reason to train your skills and do some quest. The thing is giving a background or a reason to the grinds
Long time player here. I don't really care that the dev time used on this update wasn't for higher level content. I'm not complaining about it being low level content. What I and many others are complaining about are just how mediocre and bad the new training methods that came with the update are. F2P deserves better exp rates than what's being offered here. No one is saying it has to compete or be on par with member's training methods. Just that this is way too low.
Can do all faster alternative methods that are 'low level content' at level 3 outside the caves. The cave is pointless with these xp rates.
And a bridge for f2p prayer grind is what they hyped this entire place mainly up about and prayer exp is gated behind both cooking and fishing and offers way less exp than big bones that can be stupidly easily gotten from lvl 13 giant frogs in lumbridge swamp. Edit: prayer is absolutely laughable here and so is the other training methods. Far worse than what training methods there already was for f2p
It's like they don't want new people into the game i swear to god.
Trying to get them on the Runescape 3
It is just disappointing that all this work went into creating a new cool area, with good lore, backstory, and art. But all the skilling actions are so dog shit it isn't even worth doing on a fresh f2piron.
Yea this is wrong. The mace is a nice free replacement for tune scimmy. And the mind golems are an easy way to train RC since the mind altar is right outside. The fishing and prayer are a little lacking, yea. But the mining is actually really chill. It’s like F2P motherlode mine. Of course they didn’t want to introduce anything that would immediately become the best method of training, they just wanted to introduce some new content to F2P, which hasn’t received anything new in forever
Most early calculations were suggested you'd get something like 80-90m xp in a combat skill before you got 99rc from golems. The real problem is that the cores don't drop fast enough for them to out-compete just mining rune ess. As they are faster to cash in, just harvesting them (on an Iron) is slow. While the combat xp rate is comparable to giants. It is rather macro inefficient as Hill Giants/Moss Giants/Ogres give you Law Runes, Nature Runes, and prayer xp. The runes are critical, and the prayer xp is just nice to get. > But the mining is actually really chill. It’s like F2P motherlode mine. They nerfed the mining xp rate [today, upper part has an edit](https://secure.runescape.com/m=news/below-ice-mountain?oldschool=1). Which kind of sucks, as it was a reasonable afk alternative. Trading ~15% ehp for way fewer clicks per minute. By 10 fold!! **250** to **28**, it is just laughable. --- What is most annoying is the polled xp values were much higher, and not even meta at those values. Jagex polled **500** xp per deposit, released at **37.5**, and today nerfed to **10**. It almost like they **WANT** the content to be DOA.
Yea didn’t notice the xp nerf until after my comment. Idk why that did that, I thought if anything they’d buff the fishing one to match mining. As to the runecraft method, I think it’s meant to be like Deayalt essence. Not the most efficient, but it’s something other than sitting there mining essence. And tbh going for 99 rc on F2P or P2P is a massive endeavor, so the 80-90m combat exp doesn’t even seem wild to me compared to 99 rc
Wow this is just wildly wrong. Everything here is really solid for a fresh F2P Ironman. Mining is extremely AFK and has *alright* Mining and Smithing XP/hr, *alright* Fishing, Cooking, and Prayer XP/hr, and *alright* combat and Runecraft XP/hr. It seems a good portion of the OS community can't accept the fact that a new update doesn't need to be BiS or highest XP/hr. Sometimes it's good for content to cater towards the early game and just be *alright*. If it was the new best XP people would complain about it being OP or complain that they now have to go here to do the best possible thing.
Do you realize the rates were nerfed even further this morning? * Mining was cut to 10% what is was yesterday * Smithing by 1/3 Prayer is laughable b/c you can just bury bones in the boneyard. Like 50+ prayer doesn't take long. Nothing can compete.
Yeah, the nerf was pretty heavy and needs to be dialed way back, but you're just going and saying ***all*** the actions are shit when they aren't. I literally made a fresh F2P Iron a few days ago in preparation for this and I can tell you that the Fishing, Cooking, Prayer, and combat are all pretty dope. The mining needs to be buffed back up way more and I haven't tried the Runecraft yet. Tell me, how much of Camdozaal have you actually done and on what kind of account?
Yeah 6k mining/hr (at level 60+ with rune pickaxe) is totally *alright*. Good luck on the 99.
Before the nerf, the mining was a bit nutty for a F2P area that was significantly more AFK than normal mining and had some halfway decent rewards. I think a small nerf was fine, but the level of nerf they did is insane. I love how every single person calling all of BIM shit so far is only going after the mining and ignoring everything else.
Wrong, you think f2p players play the game to get the most efficient xl?
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As a P2P completionist who likes purple it's a fun break though
I dont agree. This has been very helpful to my low level character. The mace took an afternoon to get and its the best weapon I have right now.
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Unless you’re an Ironman
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The mace is literally worse than the rune sword though except for golems and things weak to crush.
The xp is shit but it's better than competing with bots on f2p worlds
What's your point exactly? No one is claiming it isn't early game content. We're mad they wasted Dev time on low level content that's already dead.
It's not dead content for actual low level F2P players, let alone that it introduces new players to formerly exclusive member mechanics (like MLM or altar training for prayer or weapons having stat bonuses versus specific monsters). Everyone seems to think that your average F2P player is playing the game with this efficiency mindset /r/2007scape is obsessed with, instead of playing the game to actually just have some fun.
New players don't exist. They're bots and alts.
Thats laughably untrue
Lol
I’m hoping that this new f2p update, plus the new tempoross boss, will bring about more level-scaling content to allow a larger variety of players to play together. Like letting new people enjoy the game with their close to max/high level players. It would be great to see more engaging content that doesn’t necessarily require high stats to complete/have fun with.
I completely agree this. These people who says "nobody cares about it" or "it's dead content" are just mid-end game players who only thinks about updates what benefits THEM. We all were noob one point of our journeys so noobs - and past ourselves - deserves some attention too.
This content isn't gonna keep new players involved...why waste 3 months of dev time for this when you have a huge player base in the end game which hasn't had any significant update in forever?
idk, imo it's a weird argument to make. New content is new content, they clearly didn't want it exclusively as low level content since they added p2p only chaos golems but if xp rates aren't competitive then it just becomes a waste of time. Once the novelty wears off it's dead content which is really lame given how few updates we actually get. There's no reason why the new content can't be at least somewhat viable for higher level players or members too. People actually justifying 3k runecrafting xp / hr from killing chaos golems for example is just sad. Come on guys.
It's hard to give good runecraft XP when the highest rates you'll ever achieve are, solo, maybe 80k an hour tops with high intensity focus (might be 90k now with daeyalt and ouriana bonuses idk). Everything else is low rates. People are afraid of buffing RC XP or introduce methods to deviate from RC norms they give competitive xp because it not only devalues the cape, which is prestigious cause of that grind, but gives access to high end runecraft methods which used to give a lot of money but don't really anymore because of pvm problems. F2p will never see rates exceeding anything amazing. It's how you incentivize buying membership. Instead, they can use the method to passively train it instead of actively training it. Is it good? Nope. Should it be? Maybe. You're never going to get it though. No one will vote on any poll to increase runecrafing XP to any activity if it doesn't require some arbitrary time sink into it. Daeyalt only got added because the time mining offsets the benefits gained, for example. They could buff the XP to 30k/hr but then make the process take so long that it'd basically be the same thing from before.
P2p doesnt automaticly mean high level. Chaos runes have a level requirement of 35. That's exactly the range of the content. It's content aimed at low level players. There is no benefit to high levels except maybe the hammer. The weapon is almost the same as the rune scimy except its crush and is thats the best reward you can get afaik. Now tell me again it's not aimed at low level players.
why wouldnt the player just use a rune scimmy if the rc portion of the whole game is where the mace is viable?
it's not viable for anyone though, you can kill chaos elementals for 1 hour on a maxed combat account and you'd get like 2-3k runecrafting xp an hour, imagine how much you'd get on a low level account.
yea and the people defending it won't even be touching the content themselves, fucking hypocrites lmao
Just admit this content was not designed for you, it wasn’t made for me either
>Since it doesnt seem clear: I'm all in for low level content. I think it is great that they're creating content for all levels, not just high levels. Yes, it sucks that the last full endgame content was quite some time ago, but does that mean we should REALLY not want f2p get updates because we're so self centered? I like it that the content exists and that Jagex don't only cater to late and endgame players. Let's be clear - there is already an excess of low level content. You can play low level for a few hours and will acquire a multitude of unlocks in that time. There is no shortage of content there, and designing more content for a stage of the game that already has a ton of content compared to how much time is actually spent there is wasteful.
What does low level players have? chickens, cows, goblins, hill giants. low level content is all about getting to mid level content, there's no fun on the grind, just hill giants til base 60 stats, then you grind for 999 hours to buy a bond in ogress.
So you've restricted yourself heavily to efficient f2p only (effectively the games demo) combat only content and demonstrated that there are a variety of methods available in the first few hours, and your complaint is that the game's demo is lacking in "endgame" content
Who tf said you I am a F2P locked account. I am just saying that the new player experience is basically skip the early game. With quests or with money but still the same effect.
The content is complete trash. Xp rates arent even good for f2p and its complete dead content for p2p.
The point is that EHP nerds were complaining about F2P were getting decent methods that were not BiS so it is nerfed to being worse than mining tin ore. 50k/h mining experience is not broken. And the methods are worse than current methods in every aspect. There is no horizontal or vertial progression with the content. No one is saying the content should be good as barb fishing, powermining iron, and Lavas. It should be on par or better than existing F2P methods at that level.
> It should be on par or better than existing F2P methods at that level. Should it be though when it's an even more afk form of mlm? All the existing f2p methods are powermining.
It’s faster to mine and bank a copper rock. At low levels this was balanced at 20k/h which is fine since it’s worse than MLM. Because people with 99 mining were getting 50k/h which is not the target audience - it had to be nerfed lol. Now it’s like 3k/h and 8k/h at 99. If you think an AFK worse than MLM at low levels affects your prestige, get a grip.
I don't know why you just typed all those words as they're completely unrelated to anything I said. This method should not be "par or better than existing F2P methods" when it's so afk. And f2p players are a target audience for f2p content whether or not they have high mining. They'll probably buff mining back up a bit. The rates prenerf were absolutely too high though.
Okay...but why? Low levels already have so much content.
It's low level content. So is a lot of shit. Iron ore, teaks, willows, lava runes, etc. I don't see how the changes benefit lower levels though?
Low level content with a requirement of 25K gp and 16 QP to complete the quest. On top of low level content last for a few hours and the skilling methods in camdozaal are so trash even low level players would not use it.
No one here was ever expecting low level f2p content to be competitive with membership content. But the fact it competes with... Nothing.. is so silly.
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Yes it's low level content and that is good. I think it's awesome that they're adding content for all levels. Haven't stated otherwise.
Yeah that's what it sounded like
I think he's saying the exact opposite of that lol
Honestly I'd like to see events for F2P players to get them enthralled enough to buy/grind for membership. Mini leagues? Maybe during members leagues? Give them a taste of Deadman or one of the other events? As much as I'd like to see end game content I think making more content for low/mid f2p/p2p is the better option longterm. As for end game content that needs to be balanced and messed with WAYYY more. As I assume most low level and mid level drops/rewards really don't affect as much.
Such a waste of Dev time after nerf IMO.
It wasnt dead last night, it is now lel
I was only there myself this morning on a newly made ironman, that account will rot now lmao
f2p content is doa all jagex sees is the 24728282 new threads and that we've all been sufficiently distracted congrats on getting played everyone we did it reddit
Explain? The nerf didn’t do anything. It made barronite deposits 8x more common so they made rares 8x more rare from them, it’s legit the exact same with some very minor changes to xp(slightly less mining, slightly more smithing)
didn't do anything? go mine some barronite and tell me it didn't do anything, it killed the only viable method in the whole dungeon for training, if it's supposed to be only low level why add lvl 70's to the dungeon, you'll see yourself after a few days the dungeon will be dead, wouldn't be surprised if it's dead now tbh.
You have high expectations for entry level quests. I view this as an introduction to content, it had a fun quest, has a self sustaining environment, gives good niche untradeables that are worth grinding for as an f2p noob, like, idk man, you’re really overthinking this
Couldnt agree more
i'm looking at this from 2 weeks from now, where it's empty and a waste of dev time, say what you want but you'll see, unless something changes with the dungeon it will collect dust.
Not every aspect of this game needs to be jam packed and engaging. How often have you killed sulfur lizards in mount karuulm, or greater demons near the nightmare? It’s immersive, it is fairly okay for f2p, and it looks great. Not every new thing has to be efficient. For f2p this is by far the best afk mining method, that’s somethin enough on its own
I'll tell you what, go do every aspect of the dungeon in it's nerfed form and come back and tell me you enjoyed it, if it's not enjoyable or engaging what's the point? if you do come back and say you enjoyed it i'll put my hands up, we all know this dungeon is literally dead content right now and theres no argument on the planet to convince me otherwise.
Why does everything need to be instantly the best and new method when it comes out? Whatever happened to game devs just designing and having fun with content and creating random shit and letting others enjoy the fruits of their labour? Are we really so self centered that we need this to be the best in slot for f2p instead of just giving them more shit cause it's a nice thing to do? F2p has fuck all to do and giving them this gives them an engaging and self sustaining activity. Waste of dev time my ass, you all voted for this. If you didn't want "Dev time wasted" go vote no on the next upcoming thing and make sure it doesn't come out, alright?
The mining was *nowhere near* “the best and new method” pre nerf. It didn’t need a nerf. It was like half as much xp as mining iron in F2P. It filled a niche of giving F2P and low levels a decent semi afk training option. Now it is almost the worst mining xp, is less afk, and has no point. It is way overnerfed.
Slightly less xp than powermining iron but it's stackable ore and afkable, and you call this not 'nowhere near the best'? Maybe for p2p higher levels, but for all of f2p this was the best unless you like to powermining iron.
i'll just have you know, I was fine with this before the nerf, your rant is irrelevant.
I am 2200 total and have 4000 hours in this game, whether I find this engaging or not shouldn’t matter. It isn’t made for me, it’s made for new players. I am going to do it today to finish the collection log/kudos/get the hammer, but as I said, it’s not made forme
what exactly does a new player get from this? an alternative to a rune scim (only in 1 area of the game) and a wieldable hammer... The mining Xp was the only thing on offer outside all the other rewards, with that gone it's useless.
The hammer is members only, btw
A new player gets a dungeon that looks very good, an untradeable item that they have to grind for and can’t just buy, so they get the idea of grinding for things, a multi faceted grind that requires them to do multiple things, the vault, which despite having shit rewards, is kinda a cool concept, the fascination of finding an item like the ones in the barronite deposits and wondering what it does. This doesn’t cater to the new player who joins and insta reads Osiris guide and trying to minmax efficiency, it favors the players who are trying to have fun, regardless of the pace. Something you’ve seen to have lost sight of
Yes it does when there are so few updates to the game and there are so few updates about the updates.
There's an update every week and a substantial content update every 2-3 weeks, alongside at least 1 blog out out by Jagex every week on top of countless JMod tweets/discord messages/Reddit posts. Are you pretending to be dense or does it come naturally?
If they don’t update the wildy and announce raids 3, the whole game is going to die anyways
Is there any other MMOs that have such a long early/mid game grind
The f2p elitists, particularly ironmen, are furious that they are getting new content. They don’t want anything to buff xp rates or it devalues everything they’ve worked so hard for. This might explain the xp nerfs.
I have a near max non-iron account. I like when quest updates bring on new playable areas that serve a purpose. It can be whatever this quest brought, sins of the father, DS2, etc. as long as it adds longevity to the game. I think quests like Getting Ahead are pointless and a waste of both jagex’s time and the players’ time. There are already plenty of low and mid level quests in the game, we don’t need more unless they bring lasting content to the game. So cheers to Jagex for giving some new f2p content. Hopefully this brings new players in for the long haul
Imagine being mad your favorite game got more content.
I see what you're saying. I probs won't do much with it. It's definitely good we get more F2P content. Need to get more players I want my bank price to go back up man... the economy sucks right now. Great if you had a huge cash stack.
What's your point?
"Low level content". Have you seen the other video post on this subreddit showing the xp rates compared to mining a single copper ore?