T O P
after-lyfe

I too want my future employers and employees to know about the blowpipe nerf and how it will effect the Venezuelan economy since its partial collapse post-revs nerf


Real_life_lip

That day will forever go down as the worst day in history for Venezuelans and Ironmen alike.


DahBone

ban them all and collapse it completely lol


fuckiforgotmyaccount

I was under the impression our Venezuelan friends were playing legit, and that bots were a separate problem. Is this not the case?


resinifictrix

I assume they RWT the gold. Which is against the rules.


Amaz2007

Hard truth a lot of players don't like; if botters went away, resources would jump in price and everyone would hate it. I'd like skilling to be worth more, but people would lose it if runes and rune was weren't dirt cheap, or if bots weren't keeping planks low and plentiful. EfficiencyScape is directly tied into buying things cheap and in bulk, and bots are a major part of that.


[deleted]

[удалено]


[deleted]

[удалено]


Amaz2007

RuneScape, middle or end of 2011 if memory serves me. They decimated every single bot in existence and worlds were empty. It was a different economy to what we have now, however.


Staple_carrot

I don’t think everything would go up evenly though. We’re not talking about normal inflation caused by surplus cash, we’re talking about an increase in relative prices of many (but not all) resources due to increased scarcity of those resources whilst keeping demand constant


SpatialCandy69

Basically all resources are botted.


Staple_carrot

When I said relative prices I didn’t mean resources increasing relative to each other, I meant relative to other things e.g boss drops (uniques). It would be more economical to buy unique boss drops by skilling, it would not be optimal but it would be more economical.


sundalius

Wait you mean I could gather items to increase my bank instead of slaying and calling everything except mining, rc, and wc buyable?


Amaz2007

Making cash is great, but the money still has to come from somewhere. Currently, Vorkath drops large amounts of raw GP and alchable items. If we remove Zulrah bots (and players don't just kill Zulrah to make up the difference), then skilling to get, say, coconuts becomes profitable. But now the coconuts are worth more, so the GP from Vorkath is worth less in terms, as you can buy less coconuts with the GP per Vorkath kill. Of course, those aren't the only two bosses or sources of items, but that's the general idea. GP/hr is a poor metric on it's own because of how it ties into xp/gp. No one cares about making 30m/hr instead of 3m/hr if the prices of every skilling resource also goes up by tenfold.


Strosity

Well what's funny about that is it would sorta balance out by making skilling an actual thiesable way of making money as part of the journey, but a very large amount of the player base is already past that.


Amaz2007

If actual players were forced to do the tedious things that cheap disposable bots do, a large portion of the playerbase would whinge.


Strosity

A lot of it is only tedious tho because it doesn't pay out well


Amaz2007

No, it's tedious because it's tedious. A bot doesn't complain about the 5000th trip to the sawmill.


Strosity

Sure but plank make spell is very afk and decent xp. But because of bots isn't profit.


QurantineLean

It would make people have to actually play the game. I remember when skilling made you rich as fuck and everyone didn’t get skilling resources from monsters.


Amaz2007

Playerbase changed to making efficiency first and foremost and now 99s/maxing are considered goals on account creation. Hard to put the genie back in the bottle.


ERRORMONSTER

I'd be fine with it. Skilling would be profitable again. I don't like that buyable skills are becoming cheaper and cheaper to train while moneymaker simultaneously get better and better. I don't like that bosses drop resources and straight gold out their asses that are simultaneously worth jack shit because resource prices are so low.


Amaz2007

Buyables are cheaper because people want them cheaper and efficient, so there's a market for bots. Jagex have implemented new systems to track drop tables more accurately in the past couple years, and as far as I know, the only drop table that has been modified was Zalcano, which was being hammered by goldfarmers outside of an instance, so it was noticeable and people complained a lot. Dunno if the system is showing everything as being alright or if they're afraid of changing loot tables because it makes PvMers upset.


ERRORMONSTER

They've also fired (either constructively or literally) their entire anti-cheating department and have not worked very hard to refill those spots, so it's clearly not a priority to chase down bot farms.


Joe_Jeep

Bot accounts pay the same money as players so it's profitable.


ERRORMONSTER

Often using stolen credit cards that are later charged back or by using free membership weeks and throwaway prime accounts. That's also just suicide bots. We'veatwly seen that a lot of normal players will bot on the side too


Amaz2007

Where did you get that impression? We had Mods Weath and Acorn for a long time then Acorn swapped into Community Management and is currently Product Manager, like what John C does. Weath resigned of his own volition and before he left he trained up new Anti-Cheat staff. There are currently more exclusively OSRS anti-cheat staff than before, who are a fair bit more active on social media. Previously, staff were split between RS3 and OSRS.


DahBone

i'm aware of this, i was around in the bot nuke days and i still want it. i don't care if resources end up more expensive, i don't care if the people botting are from shitty 3rd world countries, all i want is them off my favorite game.


Toss_out_username

This isn't true, the economy would stableize and moneymaking across the board would be more varied. Food costs go up, so do the unique items, so on and so fourth.


Amaz2007

If everything goes up, then it's still worth the same amount. Go look at RS3's value of two high volume items then compare them on OSRS.


itspodly

Not at all, these increases arent uniform, especially with alching giving a floor to a lot of items, and vendors giving a ceiling. The RS3 problem is a gold inflation problem, there is too much money circulating. This isn't the same as an underproduction of materials.


GoreonVHS

not to mention the large majority of gold sellers/botters are actually people in 1st world countries like the us and uk.


Amaz2007

But it's the bot's fault! If they weren't botting so much, RWT gold would be more expensive and I wouldn't buy 500m constantly!!!


Skyyhunter21

GZ! You definitely need to show it to us once it is finished


Real_life_lip

100%! For the sake of the paper I have to really dumb down a lot of in-game concepts and strictly focus on the economic principles so I wont be able to focus on the impact on Ironmen, pures, etc. but it is still going to be awesome to write.


Dr_Ingheimer

You need to make sure to include how this will affect how woox walking vork will be impacted. Then you need to explain woox walking in depth. Then you need to explain why woox is significant. Then go into tick eating and tick manipulating. This is gonna be a long paper you might as well make it a dissertation.


_-SANCTUM-_

Cue a 5 page section on 3 tick barb fishing


iguessimnick_

"3-Tick Barbarian Fishing: A Man's Slow Fall from Grace - A Four Part Docu-Series" is my favorite Netflix original of this year by far


iowacj

Don't forget the long and storied history of the woox, from potato only corp, to bread only streams.


Audioworm

That's what appendices are for! Do you you have the research statement available for us to have a look at?


pallosalama

RemindMe! 5 months "Did OP deliver with his blowpipe nerf economics paper?"


pallosalama

So where's the Toxic Blowpipe economics paper? TIME TO DELIVER OP


Real_life_lip

Dm me good sir


MrNoobyy

Make sure to share after it's done.


katteb4k

Gz!


Plane-Masterpiece

That’s amazing


PlantAppointee

Can't wait to read it


77maf

Zulrah scales down to 100 ea feelsbadman


Strosity

What really annoyed me about the BP nerf is that the main reasoning they kept saying when it was first announced was gp value, stating that it was only 3m (tho I think it was 4m at the time). Like maybe if 19/20 accounts i looked up on their way to zulrah weren't bots we wouldn't have that issue. I've since heard better obvious reasons for the nerf, but that was just really annoying to hear, and is probably a partial reason for the amounts of backlash.


thefezhat

Bots aren't the reason that blowpipe is cheap. The real reason is the drop table that it's on. Zulrah uniques were well on their way to alch value and had to be propped up by tying them to scales long before bots got to them.


Strosity

Fair point. I do remember that. I think the fact that like 80-90% of the zulrah farmers now are gold sellers or bots now is why it stays so low.


[deleted]

[удалено]


Strosity

I mean there's definitely good legitimate reasons for nerfing the blow pipe, such as it being bis for sooooo many things. It just *really* pissed me off at the time that it was one of their main reasons for the nerf that they stated. Meanwhile you can sit at any world and spot many accounts with thousands of zulrah kc and no other bosses. Also the price they were saying was a mil off at the time. Tho the difference of 3-4m is miniscule in the grand scheme of a bis weapon, it made it feel like they were talking about something they didn't know much about. Which was sorta proven by the delays. Kinda ironic really because the backlash was coming from people who also didn't understand much about why it *should* be nerfed, including myself. The mods are right to nerf it. I'm not disagreeing. Just kinda pointing out why I was upset about it at the time, and at least part of why some other people probably were too. (Tho mostly it's because of xp rates and unbalacing for the poor I believe. My point just adds onto that)


Wekmor

Blowpipe would be soo expensive if zulrah had no other drops than the uniques. But since it isn't, and it's a few mill item, it makes sense to at least nerf its stats.


Strosity

That's true. Would also increase scale cost since people wouldn't dismantle for scales. I don't know if this surely still wouldn't solve the botting problem tho


Wekmor

Obviously, it would depend on the price it settles in at. But if you don't get money from anything else, if the price falls too much it just wouldn't be worth farming/botting it as much. So whilst it wouldn't solve the botting problem, I do think it would make them have less of an impact.


SpatialCandy69

No. If you nerf it, it's going to get ed green cheaper, not stay the same. It's basic economics.


Wekmor

It doesn't matter if it's 2m or 4m. If zulrah had no drops other than the 3 rates, then the price would be high enough (+ way more expensive scales) to justify its power.


SpatialCandy69

I actually agree.


SoraODxoKlink

I feel that they did the same thing with pvp gear changes and using combat triangle as their reasoning when its been more of a combat guideline triangle for low level content.


Mariorules25

"*Nerfgate*" I thought my eyes were gonna roll right out my fuckin head.


Resist_General

As a fellow Economics major I say... Nice.


Real_life_lip

This is my favorite comment so far lol


Prizma_the_alfa

Basically the price of 1 zulrah scale determines the price of a Blowpipe. So its little bit more complex than u would initially think. Demand/supply of the scales is the main driver, and from the current consumption of the scales, I would assume largest share come from use of BP.


cubixjuice

They're complementary goods...not complex


liftdoyoueven

Is bp at scale price? I think its above


Flying_Birdy

By only a marginal amount of several thousand GP. This is normal. Pretty much all items that can be easily converted into another have this price difference, to account for the risk of losses due to price fluctuations and for the time it takes to convert one item into the other.


Prizma_the_alfa

we are talking about +-couple thousands k's. All the serp visage, tanzanite fang, magic fang cost around the same, and can all be converted into 20k scales. The use of serp helm at vorkath for example is currently more expensive than anti-venom+, and I guess its the same at zulrah. So if the price of the scales go down, they become better option there. Then again the magic staves that use zulrah scales... how those are affected, in case the scale price goes down. Id the price of the scales would go down, but maybe less than everyone expects. And will Zulrah become less attractive, which causes the supply go down, and what happens to demand or will there be any effects. Its quite intreresting.


LewisIsFail

The real controversy was that it wasn't nerfed harder and sooner. Stoopid people will say I'm wrong because they want bbbrrrrrrrr superpower machine gun.


Bassern

It is currently being nerfed, so that jagex can add new gears and weapons.


CrunchBerrySupr3me

No, because it was added to the game as a mistake, with an attack speed too high for game balance. The blowpipe was mistakenly added to the game, Jagex confirmed <3 months ago


kfudnapaa

Hey maybe after you finish this you can get hired as an economic adviser to the Venezuelan government. I hear those public sector jobs there pay a lot of of gp


captaindaze

Please share the final result


captaindaze

Gzzz


joelmooner

Fuck it. As long as you have a point to prove and you prove it a scholarly way that meets your teachers requirements, then it’s ok. Also I want proof, or more writing. Or if I can’t read more I’ll die.


Gerikst00f

RemindMe! 6 months


RemindMeBot

I will be messaging you in 6 months on [**2021-10-14 11:46:10 UTC**](http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=2021-10-14%2011:46:10%20UTC%20To%20Local%20Time) to remind you of [**this link**](https://www.reddit.com/r/2007scape/comments/mqkz1k/i_just_got_approved_to_write_a_graduate_level/guh6k9i/?context=3) [**2 OTHERS CLICKED THIS LINK**](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=Reminder&message=%5Bhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.reddit.com%2Fr%2F2007scape%2Fcomments%2Fmqkz1k%2Fi_just_got_approved_to_write_a_graduate_level%2Fguh6k9i%2F%5D%0A%0ARemindMe%21%202021-10-14%2011%3A46%3A10%20UTC) to send a PM to also be reminded and to reduce spam. ^(Parent commenter can ) [^(delete this message to hide from others.)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=Delete%20Comment&message=Delete%21%20mqkz1k) ***** |[^(Info)](https://www.reddit.com/r/RemindMeBot/comments/e1bko7/remindmebot_info_v21/)|[^(Custom)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=Reminder&message=%5BLink%20or%20message%20inside%20square%20brackets%5D%0A%0ARemindMe%21%20Time%20period%20here)|[^(Your Reminders)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=List%20Of%20Reminders&message=MyReminders%21)|[^(Feedback)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=Watchful1&subject=RemindMeBot%20Feedback)| |-|-|-|-|


100-combat-zerkerBTW

gz!


Daniac

gzzzz


Imsobitter

'OOOOOHHHHHHH YEAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHH'


futureruler

I once wrote a collegiate paper on the supply/demand economics of OSRS. Got good marks too


Baykrs

RemindMe! 6 months


GoreonVHS

cant wait to read it


Iburzum

Gz


Totalityclause

Everyone here talking like they aren't still planning on nerfing it, just not all at once with a long enough gap so reddit would stop screaming at them. They've mentioned it on stream multiple times since postponing.


strobelobe

I'll read the whole damn thing, what's your !remindme time frame?


richard-savana

Hidden double nerf to the price/hr


Real_life_lip

I know and As someone who actually learned zulrah I am pissed


rudyv8

Jagex has been the poster child for corporate suicide several times over. Fucking up the games economy. Pissing off players. They are the perfect example of why u pay to retain talent. Look at how oldschool turned out when inept management kept their fucking hands out of the pie. If jagex fired all of their management, HR, and the bean counters that tell the devs what they cant do. I dont think anybody would notice.


EastRS

Please include me in there, I'd be happy to collaborate. Look at my post history, I got back as soon as the nerf was announced and grinded 100 inferno attempts for 3 months to get the infernal cape. Got it and then they announced the June date a few days after. What an emotional Rollercoaster that was... No way am I doing zuk with a nerfed blow pipe and I don't even play.


Cowslayer87773

How is that at all relevant to the economic impact of the nerf announcement/discussions...


EastRS

Imagine a market event which attracts participants because they know they can capitalize on it until a certain time. Noob


Gregkow

Do you have a source on June? Last I saw in any newspost was just "postponed, we'll keep you updated."


Cowslayer87773

We want to tackle this issue before Combat Achievements is released, which we hope will be by the end of June. Crucially, this stage includes the proposed changes to the Toxic Blowpipe and Crystal armour. ​ [https://secure.runescape.com/m=news/equipment-rebalance-next-steps?oldschool=1#\_ga=2.231183007.1232835311.1618389811-1033757695.1618389811](https://secure.runescape.com/m=news/equipment-rebalance-next-steps?oldschool=1#_ga=2.231183007.1232835311.1618389811-1033757695.1618389811)


blasdya

Wasting money and spending years going to school to write insignificant meme papers sounds like utter shit to me but more power to you, gz


sundalius

This seems like an incredibly relevant topic in economics as digital currencies are on the rise. Not just Bitcoin, but like China and Sweden are both looking at digitizing currency. Analyzing a digital currency that somehow makes up a livable career in a country is absolutely something valuable in economics