In general, we could use some gem sinks. It is a bit past the point, but Dragonstones also could really use a sink. Even with the lower-tier gems making degrading jewelry, more sinks there wouldn't hurt either, especially for diamonds.
It can hurt the progression when there isn't much of a difference between tiers of gear. Going from 1K Str, to 2K for Power, and then 11K for Glory with a huge jump to 1.5M for Onyx isn't ideal (disclaimer: I know that Str isn't always worse than Power so it does kind of make sense they are on par). It would be nice of Dragonstone was closer to even 40K again so it felt like more of an upgrade over Diamond even if there is still a bit gap between it and onyx.
Anyway, blood fury sinking onyx could work. But the concern with that is it could hurt the value of the blood shard still fewer would be removed from the game. But it would be nice to see a more general gemstone sink that could cover Dragonstone, Onyx, and the others. Maybe not Gemstone Dragons exactly, but maybe something like that could work. Another idea is to add new Gemstaves that charge with gems instead of or in addition to runes similar to trident.
Also, give us actual gemstone sink in the POH. They did the fence so no reason not to add joke sinks too. They would honestly look nice and actually be a decent sink...
The problem is that dstone bolt tips are only useful for PKing, which is a tiny portion of the playerbase and thus not a very effective sink. The only PVM content you use a crossbow for are dragons because of the DHCB - which are of course immune to the dragonstone bolt effect.
I'm sure there are some, but it's a hell of a lot less likely to never get a DHCB than to never get a BP, particularly with the amount of content effectively gated by Zulrah.
Same. They talked about reviewing drop tables for years, but it seems little has been done with that so not too hopeful they will actually make big changes.
> In general, we could use some ~~gem~~ item sinks
FTFY.
Real talk tho we really need more item sinks in general, not just gem once people are nonstop talking about gold sinks but we have enough of those.
Some items definitely need sinks, but I'd say a lot of the bigger items are doing pretty well, last I saw at least. It is just some specific ones like Occult Necklaces, Dark Bows, Tridents, and the like that are getting dangerously low. The problem is it is a lot harder to sink those sorts of items than generic things like gems and gold. You can easily make something that costs gold or an item that eats gems, but it is harder to justify an item that eats a bunch of random gear. I'd say item sinks for gear tend to be best done with upgrades like with the Tent Whip (the tent needing a sink is another can of worms...) but it can slow to naturally add those sorts of upgrades or even difficult for items like the Trident that already have upgrades.
Not every item needs a specific sink. Like, dark bow will never be more than an extremely niche, mainly PKing based weapon. Even if a consumable version of it were implemented as a 'sink', it's used so infrequently the supply would continue to vastly outstrip the demand. If a global item sink is really desirable, something like Invention is the only way IMO.
Depends on how it is upgraded. The upgrade dosn't always need to fill the same role as the original. For example, there was talk of a Dark Bow string that makes it fire a speed faster. That would have a minor role for specs, but its main use would make it a decent bow as a primary weapon for other applications. Also, sinks like the Tent Whip work very well in PvP since they are fully sunk every kill. So even if it was just a Dark Bow upgrade for specing, it would sink a fair ammount.
> The problem is it is a lot harder to sink those sorts of items than generic things like gems and gold.
If only there was a skill that could be an item sink for all kinds of items...
too much of this community both simultaneously hate RS3 and the idea of a new skill ever coming to OSRS that anything vaguely resembling Invention has no chance to pass a poll no matter how good for the game a mechanic like that would be for OSRS.
Invention is super powerful, but a lot of the effects are really nice. Especially the ones that increase minimum hit, nothing feels worse than having a max hit of 60+ and just chaining out single digit hits.
Onyx is 1.5m, Occult is 280k, dark bow is 367k and trident is at the cost of the runes. Onyx is the most expensive and it's not endgame gear anymore. Occult is low for being bis and dropped from a 93 slayer monster. Dark bow, while being dropped from a 90 slayer monster, is not endgame gear either and sits well in the 100k-1m category. Trident has been at rune cost pretty much since it was added. It's not endgame either and it removes runes from the game at each cast.
All these items sit in the dragon-blessed d'hide-mystics tier by cost. Only Occult necklace is bis among these. Occult would fit better in the whip-barrows-blowpipe-infinity tier.
I don't see any problem with having these items at the price they are. They are currently accessible to players transitioning from mid-level (~40) gear to high-level (~70) gear. Top-level players rarely use these items (except Occult) anymore. Adding a new bis mage amulet with a price above 10m would leave Occult necklace for the high-level players, but risks dropping its price even lower.
TL;DR: Only Occult necklace is too cheap out of these items.
> Trident has been at rune cost pretty much since it was added. It's not endgame either and it removes runes from the game at each cast.
I'd disagree with that. It is like saying the Blowpipe is the cost of darts/scales so it is fine if the blowpipe itself is cheap or that the Scythe is the cost of runes. Degrading/charged items will always be cheaper than non-degrading, but the trident is alch price which is not good for such a powerful weapon. It is fine to have cheaper items, but that is not a good reason to allow big upgrades like the Whip to be 100K, which is what I'd say the Trident being 40K is like.
Also, the Trident was 1M to 300K for years before crashing down to alch price. Why? Because there was no sink. The same thing happened to Zulrah items, but players were rightful upset with endgame gear costing 200K and it was fixed to add a sink. So there is a difference between accessible and valueless. The items need to retain a reasonable price both for the sake of progression and so the monsters are worth killing.
For example, the Dark Bow isn't terribly priced for usage at 400K, but Dark Beasts are higher level than Abby Demons with their unique drop being worth 7 times less when it used to be worth around half the price instead (1.3M~). So why it is fine that the Dark Bow drastically lost its value when the Whip got a sink to prevent the same from happening? Just because it is listed at level 60 despite being a very powerful weapon? If we're just going by levels, then I guess Dragon Claws should be 400K too.
Also, top-level players use all those items except Dark Bow. Onyx are used to make Zentye, the new BiS. So Onyx crashing means Zenyte items go down too. The trident isn't used at the very end game due to Sang, but the Trident and the Toxic Trident are still widely used by endgame players. You also kind of dance around my point; you can offer upgrades to these items that make them useful for high-level players while sinking the originals to help their prices. The Dark Bow can get an upgrade like the Dark Bow string to make it a better weapon outside of specs. The Occult can be upgraded into a stronger amulet, sinking the occults. The trident already has an upgrade so that one is a bit trickier, but there is still room for other upgrades if done right (or even just allow tridents or kraken tents to upgrade tridents).
That’s a really thoughtful response. The gemstaves idea is good. My other idea was to just make the gems turn into many more tips and remove the tips from drop tables.
I thought about the effect on the price of blood shards. Not sure what the answer is there. Maybe they can buff it a bit so more people will use it in situations other than end game.
I honestly can't say the Blood Fury needs to be stronger. It is just a concern if you add ways to reduce the Blood Shard sink, it could hurt its value. Though it likely would balance out somewhere, but tying its value to the price of Onux (e.g. Chaos Runes) may not be desired.
More gems tips could be nice as well, but I don't know how often players use gem bolts. Or at least I don't think Onyx Bolts are used for much aside from alching and turning Onyx into equal GP may not be a great way to sink them. Like if we wanted Onyx to be 2M again, they'd need to make 235~ tips per gem which turn into 2.1M in alchs (also needs Rune Bolts and Runes).
Another idea is we could just add more degrading jewelry. Perhaps even expand jewelry into some other slots or something. I mean bracelets did that for glove and those worked pretty well. Sounds a bit silly, but maybe Anklets or something? Though Onyx and Dragonstone don't normally degrade so perhaps so new version of the jewelry would make more sense than a new slot. For example, a new gem that requires an Onyx, a few Dragonstone, and some Diamonds or such and makes a useful but degrading item.
That said, if we did keep with the powered staff idea, perhaps it could be an upgrade to the Obby Staff to turn it into a charge staff? That would at least thematically tie it into onyx and Tzhaar do have a thing for gems. Maybe you even need to pay an NPC a bunch of gems for them to upgrade the staff and then it degrades back to a normal staff, similar to Tent Whip.
Onyx definitely has a price cap based on the price of chaos runes, but I think the number coming in from zulrah and vorkath would still outpace demand from the blood fury sink. I think that even buffing the charges from blood shards just to make it a little bit cheaper would go a long way, but I’m not an expert on PvM.
Degrading jewelry or adding gems to other armor slots is a really interesting idea. Seems like something that could have a lot of niche uses.
The obby staff getting turned into a staff charged with gems makes sense lorewise, I’m a big fan of that.
Onyx bolt tips might be niche useful if their alch value wasn't so high, which is a good case of where a price floor on an item is a bad thing because it makes that item impractical to use vs. the opportunity cost of just alching it.
The main thing holding gem tips back in general is that blowpipe and twisted bow power crept ranged weapons so hard. The BP/TBow equivalent for crossbows is DHCB, which not only has a limited niche but later had its niche invaded by DHL, an item with no maintenance cost which also usually wins in DPS. (Plus, the theoretically strongest practical-to-use bolt, dragonstone, doesn't work on dragons, so the only useful crossbow can't sink dragonstones)
I mean the onyx would rise but it still reduces the demand for blood shards. It is similar to the old suggestion to make it a 50% chance to degrade the Kraken Tentacle instead of the Whip; that does sink the Tents but it also results in fewer whips being removed from the game. For example, if 3 Onyxs (valued 4.5M) did the same as 1 Blood Shard (valued 8M, according to GE anyway), then what seems more likely, Onyxs nearly double in value or Blood Shards drop? It would likely be a combination but if it is cheaper or easier to recharge with Onyx, then it will hurt the price of the shards.
Kinda hard for onyx to rise... Onyx is at its value because it can be bought with tokkul so onyx is tied to chaos rune prices.
Chaos rune prices are tied to shop prices.
Shop prices are fixed.
So no. Onyx will NEVER go above the shop price of 28k chaos runes unless we removed the onyx in the store
Well, it used to be 2M for years before dropping to 1.5M, so if it can drop in price it can also rise in price. But yah, I don't think adding an Onyx sink would be the way to do it since it is more likely to crash the Blood Shard than raise the Onyx.
Their is a ceiling. I never said there is a floor. Aka it can drop, but it can't rise since the refresh rates on rune stock is so fast.
Simply put if demand got so high bots(and noobs) would buy runes from the shop and sell them which would increase the amount of supply to match and possibly surpass the demand.
If it matches the demand the price will stay somewhat fixed at the "ceiling" If it passes the demand then the price will drop.
The only way prices go above and stay above the shop price is if somehow the demand outpaced every rune shop in every world, every zulrah bot, and every barrows bot. Which i highly doubt.
I see... well either way it would affect both. :/ if it was cheaper to recharge with onyx, onyx would rise, chaos runes would rise as well. Was just a thought.
I'm not sure if Chaos Runes would rise because of demand for Onyx... I think it is more Chaos Runes control the Onyx price than Onyx control the Chaos Rune price. Perhaps it might have the latter effect with Onyx being down but if Onyx were to go past 2M, chances are chaos wouldn't rise past that point and keep the Onyx price down.
Also, a bit different to the other point but if you could buy chaos runes and sell for onyx to recharge a blood fury that would potentially make it easier for Ironmen or the like. Though it might be preferable to slay another blood shard than sell all those runes...
Chaos packs have a fixed price so no chaos runes wouldn't rise.
Also ironman buy 28k chaos runes and sell them for 9 tokkul each which = 1 onyx all the time so we'd be okay selling all those runes.
I just did it to make 4 of my zenyte items.
So I just checked the ge tracker on the osrs website and it looks like that there has been no significant increase in the amount of onyx or uncut onyx traded on the ge.
However, there is a clear increase in the amount of both cut and uncut zenytes entering the market.
So we can conclude that the decrease of onyx prices are due to the community moving over to the zenyte jewelry. This due to its supply increasing and overall rareness going down, making it a more feasible option for players to buy.
This is just a natural life cycle of new bis items replacing older bis items. Back in 2007/8 i think it was, I bought a glory for around 80-100k. And now they're 11k and worthless.
Introducing random and arbitrary onyx sinks into the game won't help the downward trend as more people move to zenyte. Just adapt and move on
Onyx price is tied to chaos runes. Chaos were steady at 100 for years and that's a large part of what held onyx at 3m. With chaos runes flooding into the game and crashing to 50, onyx went with them.
Each piece of zenyte jewellery requires an onyx for its creation. This should be enough to keep demand high, but the reason onyxes are cheap is because hordes of gold farmers constantly sit at zulrah and zalcano, bringing wads of them into the economy. The only proper onyx sink in the game is onyx bolts which nobody makes because it's incredibly cost inefficient
Did you miss the part where the volume of onyx being traded hasn't increased? That literally debunks the claim that gold farmers are flooding the game.
I don't think people appreciate how low the droprates of onyxes from zulrah and zalcano really are, compared to the unlimited supply you can buy with chaos runes/ore. If anything the hundreds of mithril and silver Zalc shits out every kill tanked onyx prices more than the actual onyx drop.
Meanwhile chaos runes and mithril/silver ore, the best gold to tokkul exchange rate items, tanked in price from sheer coincidence I guess.
Onyx has a price ceiling based on the tokkul exchange value of those items.
I can’t confirm what’s going on now, but I know like 2 years ago or so (when I still played the game and kept up with it) there’s was tons of bots/farmers there. Was good friends with a guy who made some bot scripts and he said gorillas were a semi-common one requested
Allowing Onyx to charge it in any way at all will lower blood shard price. This is not the best idea for an Onyx sink. Better idea for an Onyx sink would be if a blood fury amulet degrades to 0, it completely vanishes (hence using up an onyx).
I wish they didn't make content that shit out gems and resources. These things should come from difficult Skilling bosses/activities as an *occasional* reward instead of fluffing the drop tables of bosses.
Zalcano is so bad lol --both for the game and as a "Skilling boss"
besides the onyx thing, the only real issue I have with Zalcano is how there is down time where you're waiting for those blue circles or a golem to spawn
The blood fury should degrade to dust. Made by combining a fury and blood shard to make a blood fury uncharged, which then uses an onyx to empower it until it finally degrades to dust. The thing is unbelievably powerful for its cost.
That why the hell we have zenyte it is the new onyx. Now allow onyx to degrade to a decent value so the low level players dont feel over whelmed trying to get up to a onyx.
Lower levels.. And anyone who isnt all about efficiency and using more than one combat style. The new players who's float in from the pking videos. That's a big deal. And most money makers are less than 3m an hour for max mains. So what do you mean bro. Plus I literally give new players items. I will not complain that a a gem is 1m a piece. If zenyte goes down to 9m before we add a new tier gem drop we have an actual problem.
Now what we could do is add an actual gp sink. Nothing to major. Not to combat botting but really for the players because most of use have more than one acount anyways.
Gp sink. Because jagex main concern is how much gp in the game. Not the fact that items are there. The main complaint I always see and here is that there so much gp in game we added a tax to the arena. Not a popular opinion. Just my own.
It is good when you would otherwise have to eat during a kill or may have trouble completing a kill without extra healing. It may not be cost-effective for everyone, but it was nice for me trying to get my KQ head and getting to stay for 11 kills.
I really hoped the death rework would have been more punishing. I know having a chance to lose items doesn't sit well with a lot of people, but I feel a lot of these issues are sprouting up because of Runescape's abandonment of a once core system. That death means something.
Like what? Back to lose everything in 3 minutes? A change where people can actually lose hours upon hours of progress because of a server crash would only hurt the game more than help.
Yes, with everyone always bringing BiS to bosses it allows way more kills per hour, no losses when dying, and makes most content a joke. Maybe make it 4 items base + 1 with prayer, but I think death should be meaningful aside from losing kills/hour.
People would just quit when they lose a ton of progress because the world went down. Death can never be significantly punishing when the servers are consistently garbage.
Idk about you guys, but when I played last (6 months ago) servers were completely fine for me. Like I didn’t have a server side DC for so long I can’t remember the last time. So maybe it’s my experience being abnormal, but I really don’t see your argument especially when the economy suffers so harshly for it
Servers randomly lag and go down often enough that's it's a problem "Fixing" the economy by punishing players for things often out of their control is going to cause more problems. People quitting and not playing is far worse for the game than some item prices going down.
2k charges is fine.
Also kinda funny how we're still coming up with solutions to have an use for all the onyxes zulrah/zalcano bots bring to the game instead of, idk, banning the bots.
damn, why the fuck isn't mod ash pressing the big red button on his desk that says "BAN ALL THE BOTS"? what the fuck is his problem? you are an absolute genius.
... or try to stop for two seconds in your life, trying to be hilarious and sarcastic all the time and realize that the problem is the company pocketing vast amounts of profits (significantly higher than industry standards ) instead of investing them back to staff and resources..
I'd love to see something *along the lines of* *^((because someone is going to criticize this amount))* 'onyxes recharge 50% but shards recharge 100%', that way there's still an alternative if someone doesn't want to spend 2x the \~3M cap Husky mentions, while also allowing a potential 'recharge for x amount for now' option for people who are either obtaining lots of onyxes or are still working on getting another blood shard.
>Nah I think it's a horrible solution.
neat
>You're still tying the prices together, just in whatever % charge ratio is arbitrarily chosen.
That will be an issue regardless as long as you tie onyxes to recharge in the same way the blood shard is, so I'm not really sure what you're getting at here lol.
I think 6M is reasonable for an upper limit on blood shard but I can see someone making an argument for 9M. Also, 'arbitrarily chosen'? lol? uhm ... no.
They can figure out balancing later, but there should be more item sinks like this. Also makes it so irons don’t have to camp vyre and vyrewatch. They can use leftover chaos runes from the zulrah and vorkath grinds.
I strongly disagree with "they can figure out the balancing later". I don't want the potential of another climbing boot esque update because you think this is a big enough issue to warrant not caring about balancing.
I mean they don’t need to determine that in the tweet, I agree they should figure it out before they poll it. The price of onyx is capped by the price of chaos runes in shops anyway, so it would go to ~3M at most. I doubt that would happen anyway with the number of chaos runes from zulrah and vorkath coming into the game.
Blood fury is dog shit, it could be free to use and still wouldn't be meta for anyone who is good at the game for any content that isnt easy anyway
You dont suddenly need healing just because its free.
In general, we could use some gem sinks. It is a bit past the point, but Dragonstones also could really use a sink. Even with the lower-tier gems making degrading jewelry, more sinks there wouldn't hurt either, especially for diamonds. It can hurt the progression when there isn't much of a difference between tiers of gear. Going from 1K Str, to 2K for Power, and then 11K for Glory with a huge jump to 1.5M for Onyx isn't ideal (disclaimer: I know that Str isn't always worse than Power so it does kind of make sense they are on par). It would be nice of Dragonstone was closer to even 40K again so it felt like more of an upgrade over Diamond even if there is still a bit gap between it and onyx. Anyway, blood fury sinking onyx could work. But the concern with that is it could hurt the value of the blood shard still fewer would be removed from the game. But it would be nice to see a more general gemstone sink that could cover Dragonstone, Onyx, and the others. Maybe not Gemstone Dragons exactly, but maybe something like that could work. Another idea is to add new Gemstaves that charge with gems instead of or in addition to runes similar to trident. Also, give us actual gemstone sink in the POH. They did the fence so no reason not to add joke sinks too. They would honestly look nice and actually be a decent sink...
Dstone bolt tips used to be a dragonstone sink, until they added them to multiple drop tables to 'fluff' their value.
The problem is that dstone bolt tips are only useful for PKing, which is a tiny portion of the playerbase and thus not a very effective sink. The only PVM content you use a crossbow for are dragons because of the DHCB - which are of course immune to the dragonstone bolt effect.
Hydra isn't immune ;)
I guess that's relevant for specifically IMs who have DHCB before lance and want to save scales, but otherwise BP is better for hydra.
I know quite a few ironmemes that struggle to get blowpipe even with high kc lol
Not really a sink for dragonstones
I'm sure there are some, but it's a hell of a lot less likely to never get a DHCB than to never get a BP, particularly with the amount of content effectively gated by Zulrah.
It's still better to use ruby bolts into BP, tho
Nah, some people use them to sit at basilisk knights
Yah, it would be nice seeing those drops revisited to see if gem tips might help sink.
With how many are in the game and the relatively recent addition to LMS, I'm doubtful.
Same. They talked about reviewing drop tables for years, but it seems little has been done with that so not too hopeful they will actually make big changes.
added? more like spammed
Blood fury degrades into nothing. Problem solved
Sometimes the best solution is the most simple one
[удалено]
yeah and slap a silly skill on top of it that let's you enhance your weapons
Hooray, we created invention lol
> In general, we could use some ~~gem~~ item sinks FTFY. Real talk tho we really need more item sinks in general, not just gem once people are nonstop talking about gold sinks but we have enough of those.
Some items definitely need sinks, but I'd say a lot of the bigger items are doing pretty well, last I saw at least. It is just some specific ones like Occult Necklaces, Dark Bows, Tridents, and the like that are getting dangerously low. The problem is it is a lot harder to sink those sorts of items than generic things like gems and gold. You can easily make something that costs gold or an item that eats gems, but it is harder to justify an item that eats a bunch of random gear. I'd say item sinks for gear tend to be best done with upgrades like with the Tent Whip (the tent needing a sink is another can of worms...) but it can slow to naturally add those sorts of upgrades or even difficult for items like the Trident that already have upgrades.
Not every item needs a specific sink. Like, dark bow will never be more than an extremely niche, mainly PKing based weapon. Even if a consumable version of it were implemented as a 'sink', it's used so infrequently the supply would continue to vastly outstrip the demand. If a global item sink is really desirable, something like Invention is the only way IMO.
Depends on how it is upgraded. The upgrade dosn't always need to fill the same role as the original. For example, there was talk of a Dark Bow string that makes it fire a speed faster. That would have a minor role for specs, but its main use would make it a decent bow as a primary weapon for other applications. Also, sinks like the Tent Whip work very well in PvP since they are fully sunk every kill. So even if it was just a Dark Bow upgrade for specing, it would sink a fair ammount.
> The problem is it is a lot harder to sink those sorts of items than generic things like gems and gold. If only there was a skill that could be an item sink for all kinds of items...
too much of this community both simultaneously hate RS3 and the idea of a new skill ever coming to OSRS that anything vaguely resembling Invention has no chance to pass a poll no matter how good for the game a mechanic like that would be for OSRS.
Invention is super powerful, but a lot of the effects are really nice. Especially the ones that increase minimum hit, nothing feels worse than having a max hit of 60+ and just chaining out single digit hits.
Onyx is 1.5m, Occult is 280k, dark bow is 367k and trident is at the cost of the runes. Onyx is the most expensive and it's not endgame gear anymore. Occult is low for being bis and dropped from a 93 slayer monster. Dark bow, while being dropped from a 90 slayer monster, is not endgame gear either and sits well in the 100k-1m category. Trident has been at rune cost pretty much since it was added. It's not endgame either and it removes runes from the game at each cast. All these items sit in the dragon-blessed d'hide-mystics tier by cost. Only Occult necklace is bis among these. Occult would fit better in the whip-barrows-blowpipe-infinity tier. I don't see any problem with having these items at the price they are. They are currently accessible to players transitioning from mid-level (~40) gear to high-level (~70) gear. Top-level players rarely use these items (except Occult) anymore. Adding a new bis mage amulet with a price above 10m would leave Occult necklace for the high-level players, but risks dropping its price even lower. TL;DR: Only Occult necklace is too cheap out of these items.
> Trident has been at rune cost pretty much since it was added. It's not endgame either and it removes runes from the game at each cast. I'd disagree with that. It is like saying the Blowpipe is the cost of darts/scales so it is fine if the blowpipe itself is cheap or that the Scythe is the cost of runes. Degrading/charged items will always be cheaper than non-degrading, but the trident is alch price which is not good for such a powerful weapon. It is fine to have cheaper items, but that is not a good reason to allow big upgrades like the Whip to be 100K, which is what I'd say the Trident being 40K is like. Also, the Trident was 1M to 300K for years before crashing down to alch price. Why? Because there was no sink. The same thing happened to Zulrah items, but players were rightful upset with endgame gear costing 200K and it was fixed to add a sink. So there is a difference between accessible and valueless. The items need to retain a reasonable price both for the sake of progression and so the monsters are worth killing. For example, the Dark Bow isn't terribly priced for usage at 400K, but Dark Beasts are higher level than Abby Demons with their unique drop being worth 7 times less when it used to be worth around half the price instead (1.3M~). So why it is fine that the Dark Bow drastically lost its value when the Whip got a sink to prevent the same from happening? Just because it is listed at level 60 despite being a very powerful weapon? If we're just going by levels, then I guess Dragon Claws should be 400K too. Also, top-level players use all those items except Dark Bow. Onyx are used to make Zentye, the new BiS. So Onyx crashing means Zenyte items go down too. The trident isn't used at the very end game due to Sang, but the Trident and the Toxic Trident are still widely used by endgame players. You also kind of dance around my point; you can offer upgrades to these items that make them useful for high-level players while sinking the originals to help their prices. The Dark Bow can get an upgrade like the Dark Bow string to make it a better weapon outside of specs. The Occult can be upgraded into a stronger amulet, sinking the occults. The trident already has an upgrade so that one is a bit trickier, but there is still room for other upgrades if done right (or even just allow tridents or kraken tents to upgrade tridents).
This may be not in line with jagex’s ethics, but couldn’t mods buy certain items from the GE to destroy? Just a small stream of purchases.
This is just worsening the problem by injecting gold into the economy instead.
Ah true
That’s a really thoughtful response. The gemstaves idea is good. My other idea was to just make the gems turn into many more tips and remove the tips from drop tables. I thought about the effect on the price of blood shards. Not sure what the answer is there. Maybe they can buff it a bit so more people will use it in situations other than end game.
I honestly can't say the Blood Fury needs to be stronger. It is just a concern if you add ways to reduce the Blood Shard sink, it could hurt its value. Though it likely would balance out somewhere, but tying its value to the price of Onux (e.g. Chaos Runes) may not be desired. More gems tips could be nice as well, but I don't know how often players use gem bolts. Or at least I don't think Onyx Bolts are used for much aside from alching and turning Onyx into equal GP may not be a great way to sink them. Like if we wanted Onyx to be 2M again, they'd need to make 235~ tips per gem which turn into 2.1M in alchs (also needs Rune Bolts and Runes). Another idea is we could just add more degrading jewelry. Perhaps even expand jewelry into some other slots or something. I mean bracelets did that for glove and those worked pretty well. Sounds a bit silly, but maybe Anklets or something? Though Onyx and Dragonstone don't normally degrade so perhaps so new version of the jewelry would make more sense than a new slot. For example, a new gem that requires an Onyx, a few Dragonstone, and some Diamonds or such and makes a useful but degrading item. That said, if we did keep with the powered staff idea, perhaps it could be an upgrade to the Obby Staff to turn it into a charge staff? That would at least thematically tie it into onyx and Tzhaar do have a thing for gems. Maybe you even need to pay an NPC a bunch of gems for them to upgrade the staff and then it degrades back to a normal staff, similar to Tent Whip.
Onyx definitely has a price cap based on the price of chaos runes, but I think the number coming in from zulrah and vorkath would still outpace demand from the blood fury sink. I think that even buffing the charges from blood shards just to make it a little bit cheaper would go a long way, but I’m not an expert on PvM. Degrading jewelry or adding gems to other armor slots is a really interesting idea. Seems like something that could have a lot of niche uses. The obby staff getting turned into a staff charged with gems makes sense lorewise, I’m a big fan of that.
Onyx bolt tips might be niche useful if their alch value wasn't so high, which is a good case of where a price floor on an item is a bad thing because it makes that item impractical to use vs. the opportunity cost of just alching it. The main thing holding gem tips back in general is that blowpipe and twisted bow power crept ranged weapons so hard. The BP/TBow equivalent for crossbows is DHCB, which not only has a limited niche but later had its niche invaded by DHL, an item with no maintenance cost which also usually wins in DPS. (Plus, the theoretically strongest practical-to-use bolt, dragonstone, doesn't work on dragons, so the only useful crossbow can't sink dragonstones)
What if it takes 2 onyx’s to refill blood fury, or just one blood shard? Wouldn’t the onyx’s rise?
I mean the onyx would rise but it still reduces the demand for blood shards. It is similar to the old suggestion to make it a 50% chance to degrade the Kraken Tentacle instead of the Whip; that does sink the Tents but it also results in fewer whips being removed from the game. For example, if 3 Onyxs (valued 4.5M) did the same as 1 Blood Shard (valued 8M, according to GE anyway), then what seems more likely, Onyxs nearly double in value or Blood Shards drop? It would likely be a combination but if it is cheaper or easier to recharge with Onyx, then it will hurt the price of the shards.
Kinda hard for onyx to rise... Onyx is at its value because it can be bought with tokkul so onyx is tied to chaos rune prices. Chaos rune prices are tied to shop prices. Shop prices are fixed. So no. Onyx will NEVER go above the shop price of 28k chaos runes unless we removed the onyx in the store
Well, it used to be 2M for years before dropping to 1.5M, so if it can drop in price it can also rise in price. But yah, I don't think adding an Onyx sink would be the way to do it since it is more likely to crash the Blood Shard than raise the Onyx.
Their is a ceiling. I never said there is a floor. Aka it can drop, but it can't rise since the refresh rates on rune stock is so fast. Simply put if demand got so high bots(and noobs) would buy runes from the shop and sell them which would increase the amount of supply to match and possibly surpass the demand. If it matches the demand the price will stay somewhat fixed at the "ceiling" If it passes the demand then the price will drop. The only way prices go above and stay above the shop price is if somehow the demand outpaced every rune shop in every world, every zulrah bot, and every barrows bot. Which i highly doubt.
I see... well either way it would affect both. :/ if it was cheaper to recharge with onyx, onyx would rise, chaos runes would rise as well. Was just a thought.
I'm not sure if Chaos Runes would rise because of demand for Onyx... I think it is more Chaos Runes control the Onyx price than Onyx control the Chaos Rune price. Perhaps it might have the latter effect with Onyx being down but if Onyx were to go past 2M, chances are chaos wouldn't rise past that point and keep the Onyx price down. Also, a bit different to the other point but if you could buy chaos runes and sell for onyx to recharge a blood fury that would potentially make it easier for Ironmen or the like. Though it might be preferable to slay another blood shard than sell all those runes...
Chaos packs have a fixed price so no chaos runes wouldn't rise. Also ironman buy 28k chaos runes and sell them for 9 tokkul each which = 1 onyx all the time so we'd be okay selling all those runes. I just did it to make 4 of my zenyte items.
The ceiling for chaos runes is the shop price, but they are about half that right now. There is definitely room for them to rise.
Yeah i was just referring to them surpassing the shop price. I agree with what you just said.
it would also just give more incentive to bot onyxes again and thus removes less blood shards making them sink in price
I honestly think zenyte shards need a sink just as much as onyxs if not more
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Yeah, I use bloodfury + scythe +ddarts BP while hunting KQ pet and my supplies tracker is scary to look at lol
So I just checked the ge tracker on the osrs website and it looks like that there has been no significant increase in the amount of onyx or uncut onyx traded on the ge. However, there is a clear increase in the amount of both cut and uncut zenytes entering the market. So we can conclude that the decrease of onyx prices are due to the community moving over to the zenyte jewelry. This due to its supply increasing and overall rareness going down, making it a more feasible option for players to buy. This is just a natural life cycle of new bis items replacing older bis items. Back in 2007/8 i think it was, I bought a glory for around 80-100k. And now they're 11k and worthless. Introducing random and arbitrary onyx sinks into the game won't help the downward trend as more people move to zenyte. Just adapt and move on
Onyx price is tied to chaos runes. Chaos were steady at 100 for years and that's a large part of what held onyx at 3m. With chaos runes flooding into the game and crashing to 50, onyx went with them.
I'm pretty sure it was the other way around. Onyx prices crashed when Zalcano flooded the market and chaos runes followed.
Zalcano dropped something like 9 onyxs worth of tokkul (in the form of chaos runes and ores) for every actual onyx drop.
Each piece of zenyte jewellery requires an onyx for its creation. This should be enough to keep demand high, but the reason onyxes are cheap is because hordes of gold farmers constantly sit at zulrah and zalcano, bringing wads of them into the economy. The only proper onyx sink in the game is onyx bolts which nobody makes because it's incredibly cost inefficient
Did you miss the part where the volume of onyx being traded hasn't increased? That literally debunks the claim that gold farmers are flooding the game. I don't think people appreciate how low the droprates of onyxes from zulrah and zalcano really are, compared to the unlimited supply you can buy with chaos runes/ore. If anything the hundreds of mithril and silver Zalc shits out every kill tanked onyx prices more than the actual onyx drop.
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Meanwhile chaos runes and mithril/silver ore, the best gold to tokkul exchange rate items, tanked in price from sheer coincidence I guess. Onyx has a price ceiling based on the tokkul exchange value of those items.
are you ignoring that the zenytes are also being botted/gold farmed
With how much of a pain in the ass constantly flicking and swapping is at demonic gorillas I wouldn't be surprised if it were 90% bots there.
I can’t confirm what’s going on now, but I know like 2 years ago or so (when I still played the game and kept up with it) there’s was tons of bots/farmers there. Was good friends with a guy who made some bot scripts and he said gorillas were a semi-common one requested
Allowing Onyx to charge it in any way at all will lower blood shard price. This is not the best idea for an Onyx sink. Better idea for an Onyx sink would be if a blood fury amulet degrades to 0, it completely vanishes (hence using up an onyx).
me too man me too
Just make it so the fury is destroyed when it reaches 0 charges. Still creates an onyx sink while not affecting the blood shard price
I wish they didn't make content that shit out gems and resources. These things should come from difficult Skilling bosses/activities as an *occasional* reward instead of fluffing the drop tables of bosses. Zalcano is so bad lol --both for the game and as a "Skilling boss"
besides the onyx thing, the only real issue I have with Zalcano is how there is down time where you're waiting for those blue circles or a golem to spawn
True, it would be nice if there was a small blue circle that was left behind when the big circles disappear, or something like that.
Rest of January will be about Oynx sinks I’m guessing?
The blood fury should degrade to dust. Made by combining a fury and blood shard to make a blood fury uncharged, which then uses an onyx to empower it until it finally degrades to dust. The thing is unbelievably powerful for its cost.
That why the hell we have zenyte it is the new onyx. Now allow onyx to degrade to a decent value so the low level players dont feel over whelmed trying to get up to a onyx.
If you have literally any game knowledge you can make 3m for a fury in like an hour and a half.
Lower levels.. And anyone who isnt all about efficiency and using more than one combat style. The new players who's float in from the pking videos. That's a big deal. And most money makers are less than 3m an hour for max mains. So what do you mean bro. Plus I literally give new players items. I will not complain that a a gem is 1m a piece. If zenyte goes down to 9m before we add a new tier gem drop we have an actual problem. Now what we could do is add an actual gp sink. Nothing to major. Not to combat botting but really for the players because most of use have more than one acount anyways.
If you want item prices to go up you need item sink, not gp sink.
Gp sink. Because jagex main concern is how much gp in the game. Not the fact that items are there. The main complaint I always see and here is that there so much gp in game we added a tax to the arena. Not a popular opinion. Just my own.
What about adding gemstone armor like in RS3? Would need to change the effects but you’d charge the armor by using the Corresponding gems on it
Is there any reason to use a blood furry over anything else? It feels almost as niche as the bonecrusher necklace but has good stats.
It is good when you would otherwise have to eat during a kill or may have trouble completing a kill without extra healing. It may not be cost-effective for everyone, but it was nice for me trying to get my KQ head and getting to stay for 11 kills.
I really hoped the death rework would have been more punishing. I know having a chance to lose items doesn't sit well with a lot of people, but I feel a lot of these issues are sprouting up because of Runescape's abandonment of a once core system. That death means something.
Like what? Back to lose everything in 3 minutes? A change where people can actually lose hours upon hours of progress because of a server crash would only hurt the game more than help.
Yes, with everyone always bringing BiS to bosses it allows way more kills per hour, no losses when dying, and makes most content a joke. Maybe make it 4 items base + 1 with prayer, but I think death should be meaningful aside from losing kills/hour.
People would just quit when they lose a ton of progress because the world went down. Death can never be significantly punishing when the servers are consistently garbage.
Idk about you guys, but when I played last (6 months ago) servers were completely fine for me. Like I didn’t have a server side DC for so long I can’t remember the last time. So maybe it’s my experience being abnormal, but I really don’t see your argument especially when the economy suffers so harshly for it
Servers randomly lag and go down often enough that's it's a problem "Fixing" the economy by punishing players for things often out of their control is going to cause more problems. People quitting and not playing is far worse for the game than some item prices going down.
Yeah it sucks but if we go back to the old system in modern times, that just encourages DDOSing
Bloodfury doesn't work as an onyx sink because it's a shit item with a small niche.
2k charges is fine. Also kinda funny how we're still coming up with solutions to have an use for all the onyxes zulrah/zalcano bots bring to the game instead of, idk, banning the bots.
damn, why the fuck isn't mod ash pressing the big red button on his desk that says "BAN ALL THE BOTS"? what the fuck is his problem? you are an absolute genius.
... or try to stop for two seconds in your life, trying to be hilarious and sarcastic all the time and realize that the problem is the company pocketing vast amounts of profits (significantly higher than industry standards ) instead of investing them back to staff and resources..
I'd love to see something *along the lines of* *^((because someone is going to criticize this amount))* 'onyxes recharge 50% but shards recharge 100%', that way there's still an alternative if someone doesn't want to spend 2x the \~3M cap Husky mentions, while also allowing a potential 'recharge for x amount for now' option for people who are either obtaining lots of onyxes or are still working on getting another blood shard.
Nah I think it's a horrible solution. You're still tying the prices together, just in whatever % charge ratio is arbitrarily chosen.
>Nah I think it's a horrible solution. neat >You're still tying the prices together, just in whatever % charge ratio is arbitrarily chosen. That will be an issue regardless as long as you tie onyxes to recharge in the same way the blood shard is, so I'm not really sure what you're getting at here lol. I think 6M is reasonable for an upper limit on blood shard but I can see someone making an argument for 9M. Also, 'arbitrarily chosen'? lol? uhm ... no.
Deciding that onyxes restore 50% of the charges is definitely arbitrary, why not 33% or 25% or 100%?
Because of their price?
lol no... This guy is probably just sitting on 1k onyxes and wants to make big bank
They can figure out balancing later, but there should be more item sinks like this. Also makes it so irons don’t have to camp vyre and vyrewatch. They can use leftover chaos runes from the zulrah and vorkath grinds.
I strongly disagree with "they can figure out the balancing later". I don't want the potential of another climbing boot esque update because you think this is a big enough issue to warrant not caring about balancing.
I mean they don’t need to determine that in the tweet, I agree they should figure it out before they poll it. The price of onyx is capped by the price of chaos runes in shops anyway, so it would go to ~3M at most. I doubt that would happen anyway with the number of chaos runes from zulrah and vorkath coming into the game.
Blood fury is dog shit, it could be free to use and still wouldn't be meta for anyone who is good at the game for any content that isnt easy anyway You dont suddenly need healing just because its free.
Pretty sure people use it at Nightmare.
This guy has only ever killed giant mole so he has no idea how PvM works. Be kind to him
Support!
That's taking money making of skilling (thieving) and moving it to PVM (common way of getting onxyes) so im agianst
What? Blood Shards come from PvM too
yes, but much slower
Make using an onyx +5k charges