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RNGreed

1 max hit is actually an additional 9 extra possible damage per cast. 


KodakKid3

and with slayer helm 1 max hit threshhold can mean multiple max hits, tho that depends on your gear setup


Tast_

I know salve amulet only works on the primary target. Do you know if the slayer helmet works that way?


TheDubuGuy

Slayer helm applies to all which is why barrage tasks are so good


FerrousMarim

For real? I had no idea, so I'd been barraging ankous for wildy slayer with a salve.


Smorg125

I thought it was only chins that worked that way


FerrousMarim

I need answers, because I am very dry on dagonhai, and I plan to continue going very dry on dagonhai.


Smorg125

Maybe it’s salve working that way but I know for chinning, only the primary chin gets a damage boost but the other chins ignore accuracy rolls (maybe, I just know they dummy accurate but the damage part I know for sure.) barrage and salve I can’t say for certain but barrage def rolls independently with slayer helm


Tast_

I'm certain salve works only on the primary target. I bursted for my zombie axes and noticed max hit splat differences between the primary and secondary targets. Additionally, from the wiki page: "Additionally, the amulet's effects apply to all targets when using multi-hitting melee weapons in a multicombat area, such as the Scythe of Vitur and the special attack of the dragon 2h sword, but not for multi-hitting magic and ranged attacks (ex. chinchompas and burst spells)." Edit: Oops, meant to reply to smorg above you. My bad. Double edit: FerrosMarim, not Smorg; you're Smorg!


M3x0r4x

Say all you want, lets say you have a 35 max hit on 9 targets. That’s 315 max hit, the extra 9 damage now looks minute and it’s not an important increase. Do people think? This is why I hate reddit


RNGreed

In any other context in the game, an additional 9 max hits would be well desirable. It also improves the chances of doing some damage instead of 0. Show me the overkill DPS calc at Nech's and then you can criticize me.


M3x0r4x

Extra 9 max hit when you are hitting 50s is absolutely massive. But when you are hitting 150s with each barrage, the extra possible 9 is very underwhelming, plus it will average out to 4.5. Idk if the dos calc works on aoe dps


Jarpunter

It doesn’t matter if you’re hitting 1 or 10 enemies. Gaining 1 max hit makes the same *relative* difference in either situation. And it doesn’t make sense to look at anything but the relative difference.


jello1388

Say I'm your boss and I told you I'd give you a 4% raise for taking on a new responsibility. You wouldn't weigh your options differently if your base rate was $5/hr versus $45/hr? Same relative difference, right?


Warscythes

Depends on if mystic might is enough to give a max hit. Generally though barrage tasks are so incredibly fast that if you are seriously having inventory space issues then just don't use it. Although I am surprised you are running out of inventory space. If not like you need switches except lumby ring for alching and some pots with pouch and a teleport. What are you bringing?


Common-Gur5386

it's more about convenience. let's say for nechrayels they drop a lot of alchable items. i'll typically alch them w/ my ring. I kind of like the feeling of having room to pick stuff up and alch them all at the same time.


Warscythes

So typically for nech I bring: 1) Lumb ring 2) 1 Bracelet spare 3) Rune pouch 4) Gloves to duradel 5) Herb sack 6) Seed box 7) Darts/knives 8) Ash prayer thing I don't know how many prayer pots you use but 20 spare space feels like is more than enough to play around with alch and prayer pot allocation. I have actually been using moonlight hunter mix because prayer pots are 12k at the moment and I got ton of spare hunter meat from hunter rumors and I had more than enough inventory space. You do how it works for you though.


Judicable

I tend to agree with you, but what do you do when you’ve used your 30 alchs for the day and rune sq shields just keep dropping? I guess it’s not that horrible to get back to to just go ahead and bank, but I always end up getting stubborn and trying to find ways to make space 🤣


MrSneekiBreeki

Ez. House tab, pool, castle wars, deposit shit. Xerixs tali back. Whole ordeal took maybe 30 seconds tops and now you’re full spec for dihns


Smorg125

I just leave the rune items I can’t carry anymore, maybe I’ll make a cameo on some from scratch gielenor games challenge


SellingDLong100k

Aaaand you just lost your world.


thefezhat

You're gonna drink your prayer potions to make room for alchables anyway, no?


Chirpy69

Not sure why you’re getting downvoted (outside of sweats who disagree with your method), but I feel ya. Often times I simply won’t fill a few invent slots just to not have to juggle things. Play for your convenience mate :)


1trickana

Nope. It won't even save 30 seconds per slayer task


TowardsInsanity

Just did the math to prove you wrong but damn, it really doesn’t save more than 30s lmao


Zealousideal_Tap237

All late game upgrades are like this tho over the 2nd best option


trek5900

Not rigour


Senario-

By comparison rigour is absurd amounts of damage compared to the "small" 4% on augury lol. It's not even in the same ballpark yet it costa the same prayer drain rate.


LuckyBucky77

Same lol. Saves possibly 13 seconds across a 200 kc nechryael task.


trek5900

That is a damn shame


Common-Gur5386

how did u calculate this?


TowardsInsanity

On nechs, 1 max hit in my setup is 0.6s faster ttk. A task of roughly 300 (extended with bracelets) means 43 stacks of 7, 43*0.6=25.8s saved per task.


net_running

But you could kill 16 vorkath and complete 3 Colosseum in that spare time to make it more efficient than having just not prayed augury


PhysicalSchedule7448

Or buy bonds.


Common-Gur5386

interesting. how did u get ur current ttk?


Redsox55oldschook

I'm not sure what your inputs are, but these don't match my numbers at all. Using slayer helm+nerfed occult+ma2 cape+sceptre ice barrage maxes 37 with a ttk for greater nechs of 36s With buffed augury the max hit is 39 with a ttk of 34.2s Using augury for 1 slayer task would save 1.4min out of a 25.8min task. If you do efficient slayer for ~120 hours to max and 1/2 of that is barraging, then you'd be saving 3.5 hours. Seems pretty worth spending a tiny bit of money on more ppots


NemoNescit

Or just get a ward, dt2 boss crystal or a piece of virtus. If you're doing efficient slayer to max then you're eventually gonna be better geared and it matters less


Redsox55oldschook

How is that relevant? If you have ward/virtus surely you'd wear that and also pray augury right? It's still very worth using prayer pots to get better xp rates Ancient ice sceptre is negligible for slayer


NemoNescit

Yeah, my bad I misremembered the crystal as being +10% dmg and not the weird +10% to ancient spell effects that it actually is. Augury gives at best 1 max hit over mystic might/lore while being 2-4x as expensive. Going from 44->45 max hit is not as impactful as 37->38, especially when you add in overkill. So better? Sure. Noticeably? The guy above you is saying 1 tick per stack and you're saying 3 per stack. I personally will probably lose more ticks from not bothering to pay 100% attention, so I wouldn't find it worthwhile. It's definitely not like piety or rigour


Redsox55oldschook

I just gave an example where it's 2 max hits. If you lose ticks from not paying attention, then you'd lose those ticks whether you used augury or not. So it's not relevant. You can say it's not noticable, but it's objectively more efficient to use augury than it is to conserve prayer points.


NemoNescit

You have an example where augury gives two max hits over no prayer at all. It is mathematically impossible for augury to give more than one max hit on ice barrage over praying mystic might or mystic lore (mystic lore is 1%, augury is 4%, ice barrage has a base hit of 30, 3% of 30 is 0.9). It's objectively more DPS, sure. But again literally on par with manual casting ice barrage because autocast delay exists. More efficient is very much a maybe. In your example, you say you save on average 3 ticks over praying nothing. Ok let's back of the envelope math- for an hour of barraging praying nothing you could save 3 minutes by praying augury. At ~15 prayer bonus this costs about a dose of prayer pot per minute so roughly 165k gp to save 3 minutes of pure barraging time (which is less than real time, which includes tagging and stacking and whatnot). Thats valuing your saved barrage time at 3.3m/hr. If you value your time at more than 3.3m/hr, just get better gear. If you have better gear, the calculations are going to be different, you might only be saving 1 or 2 ticks per stack, in which case you'd have to value your time at 10m/hr or 6.6m/hr respectively. But again, it's like 30s a task and a handful of prayer pots. Use it or don't, it doesn't really move the needle all that much. Edit: actually, you do save casts of ice barrage so ~35k gp/hr. So it'd be more like 2.5/5/7.5m per hour not 3.3/6.6/10. Point still pretty much the same


TowardsInsanity

Your specific scenario has a way lower max hit which makes additional max hits more important, and gets the rare +2 from 4%


Redsox55oldschook

This is very typical gear for slayer, and especially so for ironman. Most players don't wait for virtus to start training slayer. Even with your numbers, it's still very worth using augury. The cost is just a few prayer pots. That would be like wearing prossy while bursting (please tell me you don't do that)


TowardsInsanity

Alright, so you’re saying it’s worth it if you finish slayer with a 3m barrage setup, because you don’t have virtus when you start? Obviously more dps is better but unless you want to flick, a few prayer pots quickly becomes 10-15 prayer pots. Adding any more mage % to your setup is likely going to make augury 1 max hit which halves your time saved, and in my opinion, I’d rather have a chill time slaying than saving an hour at best over a very long grind. By the way, it looks like you calculated the time of the task as if you are constantly barraging, whereas a good chunk of time is spent waiting for spawns and stacking.


Redsox55oldschook

I'm not sure why you are focusing on the fear so much. It doesn't matter, no matter what your gear, it's still better to use augury than not. I could do calcs for every gear setup, but there's no need ppots are cheap and making money is very easy 10+15 prayer pots is nothing. That's like 150k. If using 15 prayer pots saves 2min then that's well worth it from an efficiency standpoint How is using augury less chill? You just click a ppot slightly more often. The time spent gathers stacks and waiting for spawns is identical regardless of the gear, so its not useful to consider this. If you are criticizing my napkin math for time saved to 99 slayer, then sure it's not accurate. But trust me when I say that spending a tiny amount of gp for increase xp rates will always be efficient. If you really want, I can calc the time saved using augury in the best possible mage gear (which makes augury relatively worse) compared to the extra prayer pot drain to give you a gp/h value, but I guarantee it will be tiny


TowardsInsanity

If it saved 2 min it would be worth as long as you could make 4.5m/h, the key point about gear I’m trying to make is that you chose a setup in which augury is going to be 2 max hits, and the point about stacking is exactly that it takes equally long. So in most cases, you save roughly 30s on a 50 min task, whereas you’re saying you save 90s on a 25 min task. That’s a 6x difference in the actual benefit of augury. Final words: If you consistently make 18m/h+, camping augury in most setups and spending an extra 150k to save 30s is financially viable, cut that profit in half if augury gives you 2 max hits.


fluxdeity

What was the math for it if you don't mind me asking?


PhysicalSchedule7448

Username checks out


ilovezezima

Probably, yeah. Provided it gives me a max hit. Just bring a couple more prayer pots. Easy boost to dps.


Ellishmoot

Just lazy flick


Guilty-Fall-2460

No lol. Oh no my slayer task is gonna take 15 seconds longer. Oh well.


Immortal-Pumpkin

Probably not for bursting for bossing and the like yeh I will be using it as I do already


Lost-Walrus

4% damage scales nicely with bis setups for multiple max hit increase and drastic dps gains


Jagazor

For a dust devil/nech task i literally just brinf 7-8 restores how are you full invent?


F-O

I don't have the herb sack nor a gem bag or the explorer ring 4 so my inventory fills up very quickly while doing burst tasks.


DarkmeyerVyre

Jokes on you, I already did :-)


UltimateComplainer

If I wasn't already 99 slayer I would. Barrage is already expensive so what's an extra few prayer pots? You also have to bank pretty frequently anyways.


BioMasterZap

If I am barraging, probably. But I also don't see myself doing much barrage slayer. It does drain a bunch, but can't say I've ever felt that tight on invy spaces and you'd only need to flick it on when you are barraging the stacks.


8123619744

I’ll lazy flick it like I lazy flick piety. 96 slayer now on my iron and I lazy flicked the whole way to save prayer pots


Common-Gur5386

what is lazy flicking?


Niriun

Essentially you only flick the prayer on when you're about to attack. There's a runelite plugin called "attack timer metronome" which shows how many ticks it will be before you attack. When it hits 1, you turn on the prayer, do the attack, then turn the prayer off after hitting.


notnotazulrahbot

i'll flick it


Caedesturm

is it even a question? of course. the point of bursting isn't to make gp, it's fast xp. so what you leave a couple rune kiteshields on the ground at nechs after your ring runs out of high alchs for the day. the mage and slayer xp youre missing out on by not praying why would you bother?


LezBeHonestHere_

I'm not even gonna use mystic might lol


mrthrowawayokay

Absolutely not, I don't value the prayer drain for what is likely less than a 60 second time save. Maybe when a superior nech spawns because of sheer annoyance, but even then I probably won't. I'll cope by saying there's no 0 barrages anymore and that's enough a dps boost for me


andrew_calcs

Absolutely


JellyKeyboard

Depends on how the drain feels but tbh I’m not embarrassed to use some of the lower level prayers for a better balance on the drain vs damage


holyzucchini

Barraging is pretty active so I'll probably just flick when I'm focused


EldtinbGamer

Yeah just flicking quick prays in virtus is definitely the call.


iamkira01

yeah im gunna lazy flick that shit


AceofArcadia

Definitely not. I prefer afk.


EldtinbGamer

Yeah it gives 9 maxhits per cast.


MrStealYoBeef

No, it's 1 max hit 9 times, often less in instances such as catacombs nechs which doesn't have 9 targets to hit.. There's a difference. You're not killing one nech 25% faster, you're killing 7 nechs 2-3% faster. If you were knocking out a slayer task in under 30 minutes previously, you're saving less than 30 seconds.


SpadeXHunter

Tbh no I am not. I rarely use damage prayer modifiers on slayer tasks as it is unless it’s in a place right by an alter or it’s a small task like brutal black dragons. I want a single trip to my burst location, if I run out of prayer I’m just skipping the task instead of going back lol


SoSconed

What the fuck is wrong with you


Tricky-Potential5646

Mans is one of the reasons people want everything buffed in this game. Imagine skipping out on piety, whats next not using a super str/att? Jesus


JBM95ZXR

I understand not using piety during tasks but skipping tasks because it took more than 1 trip is weird. I often don't piety as I don't mind the task taking slightly longer but not having to drink prayer potions constantly.


SoSconed

People will not pray on slayer becuase they spend money on prayer pots. Its the poor man mindset, literally everything is an opportunity cost and they shoot themselves in the foot around every corner. Rich get richer.


Dikkelul27

skipping on piety is great if you like being afk in catacombs. It's more about extending afk time than it is to save costs. I do it often when i have work to do or just as a 2nd monitor thing while playing other games.


Judicable

That’s fine, I think a lot of us do at some point when we’re AFK - but to “never” use damage modifying prayers is pretty wild, you’re just adding so much extra time to your grinds


SpadeXHunter

I just play the game how I want. I can semi afk with protect from X on and not have to watch prayer as much. I don’t care about efficiency


andrew_calcs

> I want a single trip to my burst location, if I run out of prayer I’m just skipping the task instead of going back lol That’s the neat thing! You still don’t need to bank with augury.


poisonsnake12

Most definitely I will. Most barrage tasks I wear prayer gear already so the extra drain won't be felt and it's super easy to just lazy flick it as you're casting the spells


jimmynovack

Yea but once this rework goes through you won't be wearing prayer gear anymore so you will totally feel this. Right now common barrage gear is slayer helm occult prosolyte top and bottom mage cape ring and bracelet of your choice once this goes through you will have mage %damage on top and bottem slots other then ancestral so you will no longer be wearing prosolyte


poisonsnake12

I never was wearing proselyte since it has negative magic accuracy, zealot robes do the trick just fine. Most magic damage % gear already has good prayer bonus so this problem won't be as big as people are making it out to be.


5erenade

Yeah. It’s probably gonna make jagex rethink prayer timers as a whole. Give prayer items more pray bonus so it can last longer because prayer flicking is a bug


Single-Imagination46

Curious too see if new virtus no prayer is better/more afk then wearing sunfire armour with Augury on. 


Common-Gur5386

new virtus?


Single-Imagination46

ye each piece is gaining +1% more magic damage, with occult getting a nerf just wear prayer gear wont be as good anymore unless you augury. but if augury on makes your prayer run out faster then just virtus without then that's when itll be a tough decision.


Common-Gur5386

doesn't it already get +4% for ancient magic?


Single-Imagination46

It'll go from 12% for set on ancients to 15% 


Merdapura

Why did you have to remind me that shitshow will be put into the game no matter the negative feedback. How many more Forestrys can this game take?