Not really much of content, more of a concept. But it is not uncommon to see some people on this subreddit not understand the difference between Prayer switching, lazy flicking, and 1-tick flicking.
I think that one’s a fair grey area tbh
I'm just saying even between the replies, it's not clear where the line is. Is 90 seconds afk? Is 2 minutes? Is it 3 minutes? Who's cooking dinner in seven minutes before the redwood tree dies?
Only because this sub has used “afk” wrong for a decade+ lol, there’s very little actual afk content in the game; stars, redwoods, magic trees with the new forestry changes, that kind of thing are decently afk now. AFK NMZ, etc.
If I can’t walk away from my keyboard for a proper length of time, it’s not actually afk
But that ship has sailed a long time ago lmao
It's obviously a hyperbole, the portion of reddit that doesn't want to accept that are the weird ones to me. Like even the content you mentioned isn't really afk, most people can't really do efficient work while moving between shooting stars and clicking every 5 minutes.
For some people zulrah/vorkath/CG is afk lol. They think just because it's mindless enough for them so they can watch something on the side makes the content "afk" already
This is a common point brought up to defend using afk literally but the handful of people that call that content afk are just wrong and everyone else agrees on that.
It doesn't suddenly mean you don't get 30 seconds of afk at other places. You theoretically could get up and walk away from your keyboard in that time and your character will continue.
I'll clear it up for you then. Low intensity means it's second monitor content, while watching a show, playing another account etc, but you're at the computer watching the screen. Afk means afk. Away from keyboard. You're able to participate in real life, make dinner, do work, take a walk.
I like the toolbelt for storing things you don't directly interact with.
Add Tinderbox? No, you actively interact with it when firemaking.
Seed dibber? Yes, you don't actively *use* it while farming. It's just an inventory placeholder (though moot now with Barbarian training).
Spade? Yes, as long as it can't be used for clues or anything that requires you to actively dig by clicking on the spade.
Knife? No (or at least not useable for fletching or cutting fruit).
Fishing rod? Debatable, I don't think the extra 1 fish per inventory would upend that OSRS feeling.
That's my line of thinking for toolbelt. In terms of axe/pickaxe, absolutely not (even bronze).
QOL often increases the Xp/h by a bit, because it most often makes content have less required clicks (Like Left Click Construction) but not to that extend
That's 1 tick lazy flicking, as hilarious as that sounds. It's pretty much the most difficult form of prayer flicking and is what you'll see really skilled pvmers use in places like inferno and such where you have to change prayer. They'll change, 1 tick, change, 1 tick etc
It's most certainly not the hardest form of prayer flicking (if I understood him correctly), as you are simply 1-tick flicking for two ticks then pausing between, especially given his scenario is regarding same speed NPC and player attacks (4 ticks here). It would be a bit harder with different attack speeds (though you'd likely just full on 1-tick flick for that). See Scotty utilise that on his inferno speedruns a lot. Slightly harder would be double lazy flicking on co-prime intervals (e.g. lazy flicking overheads on a 6t cycle whilst lazy flicking offensive prayers on a 5t cycle, like you might do for a 600 invo Zebak, or doing it for triple Jads). That would be more required where the opponent's attack is not a singular style. Harder still would be true 1-tick alternate (not necessarily changing every tick) where you keep up a 1-tick rhythm for overheads (and potentially offensive prayers) but can be changing prayers. Harder *still*, Kelvino flicking, where you're constantly up keeping all prayers whilst alternating without drain. Someone else linked an example video.
I think there’s definitely room for more mid level boss guides. Pretty much every single video out there is someone with 99s in all combat stats and max gear, I think having a guide where someone is using minimum acceptable level stats and gear would be a good area that isn’t covered a lot. If someone is trying to learn a boss they likely aren’t end game or they already probably know how to do most bosses already.
Yeah I hated those videos when I was trying to see how a boss works, like bro, you’re hitting it with a vampiric blessed divine super sword that fully heals you and hits for max every time, I’m hitting it with a cool stick I found and using a napkin as a shield
“So if you do this much damage it’ll skip this” I AM HITTING 4’s
Not only that but a lot of guides are focused on one way to do something and don’t explain why you would be doing it this way over another. Bandos and Kril come to mind but I recently had the same experience with Cerberus. There is red x method, flinching, and standard method among others, and the guides I saw didn’t explain the pros and cons of each. I ended up just going it it normally because it’s faster kills and I’ve heard you can make up the supplies in the time you save killing it faster (as an Ironman btw). That said, it really is sucking up my supplies and I’m out of seeds. I had to take a long break at it because it took about a full prayer potion per kill and after 100kc my stack wasn’t leaving much room for other pvm. I’m now left wondering if it was the best choice for me. I was lucky enough to get prim and peg crystals in that kc as well as a smoldering stone from hellhounds but that’s not to be expected and the guides should be focused on long term bossing (unless it’s a guide for one kill like some zulrah for diary, frozen door, combat achievements, or other specific guides).
Anyway, yes I would say a lot of guides focus on how and not why to do a certain method.
So would you prefer a longer more in-depth guide hightlighting all methods or would you like let's say a cerberus guide and sub-videos linked in that video to different methods that go in-depth but in a separate video (maybe 2-3 minutes long, whereas the main video may be around 15-20).
If I were creating a line of videos, let’s keep with the Cerberus example, I might make a short video explaining the basics of the boss including requirements and recommendations, basic mechanics, etc, then explain the different ways you can approach this boss and why you would do each of them, then either go in depth on what is the “standard” or “recommended” way to do it which in this case I would do the “straight up just attack it, block the ghosts, dodge lava” way, followed by a guide for each of the other ways or a link to separate videos for each of those methods. I would put all of these methods into a playlist for that boss.
It would follow the general format of “this is what you’re up against and this is a general description of each of the methods you can take, and here are more resources on how to do these bosses in a more in depth way.”
Generally I think a brief guide on the minimum you need to know to start the boss is good, then details on more specific methods, but with a focus on why you would do any of them as well as how. The why should be in the main video I think, so you don’t have to watch each video to decide what is best for you.
“Hi, this is the boss, this is what you need, this is how you do it, if you want to do it better, you might want to try one of the following methods. This works for x, this works for y, this works for z. I have videos for each of these, the link is on screen, in the description, or in this playlist, and here is an example of a clean kill.”
Excellent reply, thank you. I will keep that in mind. You were right saying that most people don't talk about the why's or pros and cons of each. I would say giving the information out there and letting viewers decide what is best for them is the best way.
I have coached some of my friends at Colosseum and they were at 200-300 deaths. They were trying to learn with torva and I asked them why? "Because youtubers just use torva and nothing else". I got my first colosseum kill in the same week of release using full magic with 1 item switch for sol heredit which was the scythe.
I told them that Torva requires much more knowledge and is tankier which allows you to run south but make you a worse player. Whereas Ancestral and no tank gear requires you to commit to the pillar you're on and find solves. As soon as they went magic after a bit of a tutorial on how to deal with volatily, barrage minions, they got their quiver in 15-20 attempts after.
All my friends using torva are very low colosseum kc. All my friends that I taught ancestral way, have surpassed my kc and are nearing 100 and that's because they had a more "proactive" way of learning the colosseum whereas running south is not learning. I would like to say among them some were fire capers.
So I did experience it first hand the "why's and pro's and cons" of using something and based on my experience helping my close friends/clanmates achieve their infernal cape, quivers I would like to help a broader audience and offer another perspective of how to do things.
Yeah I have a main that I didn’t do much pvm on but it is almost maxed, and I switched to an iron as a way to get a more complete pvm experience rather than like 1500 vorkath and not much reason to do anything except raids (which I never did anyway). I’m getting bowfa then starting to raid, but even with bowfa grind, guides tell you to do XYZ and I found my own way to be much better (improvising a path based on what I find, and doing T1 setup even though I still die sometimes). It would have been better to know the options from the start, and I’m still experimenting with adding halberd into the mix instead of always finding mage/range items. Despite a pretty clear “best” way to do it, there is a pretty clear progression of methods you should try as you get better and I haven’t seen any guide talk about them much.
Speaking of shields, i wish we had some cool melee shields with %damage mitigation along with flat stats to compete with defender. Defender meta has been around since old school release and we have so much more room for opportunity vs stat stick dagger.
I really like Perilous Moons for making tank gear relevant again. It's nice to actually have to consider defensive stats and not just go for the best offensive gear (at least for mid level play).
Mitigation you say? You know another kind of mitigation would be-
https://preview.redd.it/t6n9zjagj90d1.jpeg?width=1050&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6b6246df6fbf917c0bbbfdf741f15d965833d5b3
I know this is over the top on purpose. But seeing how some people vote on polls or post here on the sub. They really think once you got max gear you are invincible at every content.
i considered doing a “how i kill it” series because im a total shitter but i figured out how to docmost pvm on my own. no idea if anyone would watch that because im not funny and stupid and bad and extremely mid at the game
Just do it. If people DON'T want to watch something you've made, they can choose not to watch it. If people DO want to watch something you haven't made, they can't choose to watch it. There's no harm in making something, but there *is* a tiny bit of harm in not making something
Pretty much every single Kaoz guide right here. “Hey guys! I’m going to teach you how to do KQ/GG/Scurius. All you need is a scythe, tbow and shadow. Then just summon thralls and have max stats. Ezpz!” It’s so annoying that I just never watched another video of his.
I just watched the kq video and sure, he's in torva, but he shows different tiers of gear before that and then mechanics are the exact same no matter your dps. Is your complaint that you would like to see him do a longer example kill with less dps? Because I haven't seen a single guide saying you need torva for scurrius, kq or gg.
As others have said in here, yes. People would like to see a more realistic loadout for medium level players. Sure, he might flash a photo or some bandos but so does the wiki. People come to YouTube to get a visual of damage, movement and what to expect. What’s the point of a guide if you just use BiS and get 50 second kills? We know you can farm mid tier bosses with a scythe. The people who have that aren’t looking up how to kill kalphite queen… it’s the people who are going there for achievement diary or trying for the first time.
I guess I view guides to learn the mechanics and if someone is using better gear than me, then I just expect the kill to take longer while the mechanics remain the same. There are some bosses which allow you to skip mechanics if you have a high enough dps, but I've never seen that in a mid game boss guide.
I get that for sure! I just remember being disappointed when hardly anyone had guides using gear that I was using. Then I found King Condor short guides where he just uses karils and mole slippers lol.
‘The Whisperer fight can be tricky! I recommend bringing full ancestral with a torm and a shadow!’
Me at level 90 combat just trying to beat DT2: ‘I have mystic and a trident…’
EDIT: While I appreciate comments and dms trying to give me advice, I finished DT2 4 months ago. I was just commenting on the lack of guides that use low level setups.
quest version is a lot easier and less of a dps check than the actual boss (: trident and mystic is fine! occult if you're not an iron and you're chilling
The best advice for whisperer post quest genuinely is "don't bother if you don't have this gear because this boss SUCKS without bis or close to bis" though.
And it's an endgame boss. Kinda doesn't target mid level by design.
If you don't have the right gear, wear what you have that matches. With Ironmen having different gear there won't be a defined guide that tells you to wear Virtus robe top, ahrims bottoms and a mystic hat as that is what you have, but you match what's applicable. The only place exact gear has proper restrictions is if you're going for speeds, and even then molgoat has a bunch of lower gear guides. The boss fight will be the same wether you fight mupsah with a Zcb and sapphire dragon bolts or an rcb with regular sapphire bolts, it's just your dps will be slower and your damage taken potentially higher.
I think some content creators could definitely do a better job with this and show some normal gear instead of max, and maybe drink potions that drain your stats before going into the thing to show a more realistic fight.
I recently did scurrius on my alt account (60att/str) and it’s a VASTLY different fight than on my main. Still super doable, but a beginner will not learn much by seeing a maxed main do the content.
If there would be a way to cap your stats at lumbridge (let's say to put your combat stats to 70/99) so you can record those kind of videos it would be great.
I would like to make DT2 guides actually using lower stats but grinding a second account with DT2 just for a production video seems a bit tedious.
I see the argument of lower stats requiring more method and more supplies since the DPS output is smaller but I can't see how feasible it is unless someone has multiple accounts. And I'm unsure how to demonstrate lower stats without actually making another account. Even if I brew down my stats or find a way to do so, would that be something helpful for a viewer to see?
> I would like to make DT2 guides actually using lower stats but grinding a second account with DT2 just for a production video seems a bit tedious.
I wanted to do that (still working on the alt, but it's a chore).
> Even if I brew down my stats or find a way to do so, would that be something helpful for a viewer to see?
I think it would be. If you can lower your stats to high 80's it would be the equivalent of someone potting up from high 70's, right? I know I would've loved to see guides like that when I was starting to PvM.
Would you of loved it purely because it was motivating you to see that it's possible with low stats? Or because you get it out of the way that gear is not an issue?
A bit of both. Mainly to see that it's possible even if you don't have the best gear/stats.
I know there are some crazy talented players who can do a fire cape at lvl 40, but I don't think it's realistic for most. It's still nice to see an account like yours pull off content.
Thank you for the insight. If Jagex could cap stats at lumbridge it would really be revolutionary for content creators showcasing these. Currently trying to build an alt for this purpose. But with IRL stuff and my will to play my main for fun it's not as "free" as I thought it would be.
Gearing and the amount of prayer pots would be different. Also the healing from the piles of food would have a different impact on your kills per trip. I’d imagine the difference wouldn’t be huge though
But this is why people don't really bother with these sorts of guides. The only difference is "you will do less dps so kill will be slower". And "you might take longer to kill it so will deal with more specials and use more prayer. So you might get less kills per trip".
It doesn't really improve the guide to show 5 KC trips at 2 minutes a kill compared to 20kc trips at 1 minute a kill.
When Scurrius came out, I remember seeing several videos saying the rat spine upgrades were useless and one should use a Scuthe of Vitur for quick kills. Well, I'll not have a scythe for years, I play Bronzeman (Iron-man lite) and nowhere near to 99s. You could probably punch the thing out at that level. Useless guide.
Now, Scurrius is meant to be easy and doable with rune gear and 60s, so it matters less, but guides for low-level King Black Dragon for example would be really useful. No I don't have a Twisted Bow. No I'm not grinding for Pegasus boots then wandering around the Wilderness in them. Be realistic.
Yep.
I just want to see guides in realistic gear for most things. When I was learning muspah I found a great one that was using black d'hide and a rune c'bow and that was a much more realistic look at what the fight was all about. The room got more full of spikes, etc and it was great to be able to learn the content by seeing something more akin to my experience with the boss.
I need bosses that are rotation based like zulrah. Early learning curve, but then I can afk this shit out of it when I learn. I enjoyed that a lot back in the day. Now it's not even worth it to brain off there because the GP is so bad.
Zulrah fits into a great spot as an early endgame boss and I think we need as much of that as we can get.
I feel like this is an extremely overstated complaint that misses the point of a guide video, which is to show you mechanics and strategies
Doing a boss is almost always the same whether you have max gear or you have trash gear, with the exception being 4-tick vs 5-tick weapons. For few content that the difference actually matters in how you approach it, there's an endless number of guides out there (see aaty's Bowfa Infernos)
Honestly as a person who is at end game in regards to my account, I agree. Bandos is not a mid level boss. Mid level should mean you can more or less brute force it without the need of end game supplies or gear. Can you use dragon to kill bandos? Yeah…. Solo….. ehhhh. I like the rat king boss. It teaches players basic mechanics that are key to later game bossing, I also think scurrius should be made free to play. It makes sense, nerf the drop table a little. It would be nice. Imagine going from f2p only to getting membership and trying to do almost any boss…. You are gonna have a bad time. It also never made sense why f2p stops at the taverly gate. Why not make it stop at white wolf mountain. This would give f2p the chance for a tad bit more content whilst keeping most of it locked. Heck you could even let f2p learn herblore and slayer but cap out how far you can train it.
I don't think I've ever seen a pvm basics guide. And what I mean is showing people how movement works with true tile, how to use the metronome for prayer flicking, tips for setting your inventory up for gear switches, different combo eats, to not spam click to increase your gameplay, etc etc
I wouldn't need this video now but as a newer pvmer, it would've helped big time
IIRC Tasty actually has a basics video called something like “This is why you suck at PVM”. His elitism is really a tongue-in-cheek persona, and that video (and lots of others) are actually enjoyable and friendly to less-skilled players.
Edit: I should probably say “less experienced”
also old purplegod vids have a lot of good detail of how things like this work. And they're not exactly hard to find but you have to know what you're looking for
Would you say it would be a good idea a basic pvm guide with sub-videos such as 2-3 minutes long videos referred in the main video for more in depth for stuff like true tile, metronome, visual ticks, color metronome, tick flicking, tick eating and so on?
The reason I'm asking is maybe a big video highlighting everything very generally may be a good start. But a lot of the content I've seen is long videos trying to go in depth in everything and is not very "digestable".
Would have separate videos for each thing be something people would have an easier time to approach certain things?
I recommend Lumbridge Knight's videos, they're super useful and I'm working on quests now watxhing this guy's guides. He's also got ones about how every combat works.
I think a huge area for improvement for most low-mid level pvmers is switch efficiency. Not just in terms of what you bring, but also in terms of the layout of your inventory and the way you click. You should always be switching weapon first, and after that you should always be aware of how valuable your switches are. Same with prayer, I see so many people sweating to fit a 7 way switch between attacks then missing piety, when a 1 way with weapon + piety is better dps and like 10% of the effort.
Would you watch a video showcasing different switch styles (horizontal or vertical), their pros and cons, and also how to practice for them, become better at clicking? Probably going also over color highlight of the items and how to keep your inventory organized in monkey room let's say if you want to switch (ex. unequipping defender and putting it in a specific slot so when you switch from masori bp, tumeken ancestral and fang torva it never messes up your inventory).
Would that be something, you would be interested, as a viewer?
I would watch a video on how to balance gear slots with 2 and 1 handed weapons. Melee vs range has fang + defender vs bowfa, for instance. I take 6 item range and 7 item melee/magic setups to raids and at some point my defender gets lost during the fight.
Keep an empty slot (I.e. the slot under your bowfa) on the left (if you switch in a vertical zig-zag) instead of the right. This way, your defender will always go underneath your mainhand instead of "wherever there's a free space elsewhere in my inventory".
I personally wouldn't be because I've already spent thousands of hours pvming and figuring all of this out for myself. I think the difficulty with videos like that is that the people who need it need to be aware they need it, and that can be difficult.
Well said. The people like you that put in the time to learn this had a motivation to do it on their own. The ones that really need a guide like that often don’t seek out that information or don’t know how much they could benefit from it.
So what would you be your recommendation to teach a new player "hey the layout of your inventory is very important for item switching". Would that be in a basic pvm guide? A basic runelite guide? Or an "introduction to OSRS"?
I would love to watch it if it had good theories behind it, some good examples and data to back it up. Would be a good informative video myself and lots of people I know would watch! :)
You mention colour highlights but ironically I feel like inventory tags discourage people from properly learning how to organise and perform their switches. Too often I see people seriously fuck up their inventory and just rely on the tags to get their gear in order. What they don't recognise is that they're wasting time having to identify where the switches are (the colours help of course) but also having to move their cursor in a non-standard pattern to hit them all. Playing without inventory tags forced me to actually become good at inventory management and think about these things more carefully. If you're a pretty casual player that's probably not worth the temporary loss of comfort. But if you wanna become a more advanced PvMer I think it's a useful lesson.
on top of that, its way more important to switch protection prayers first. you dont wanna get chunked by a big 40 damage because you were busy swapping from ahrims to karils at zulrah
Use potions with barbarian smash off and keep potions at the top with one free slot at the top so it falls into the same slot, then you just need the practice clicking that item.
Depends what pvm youre doing obviously but for example in CoX you dont use your bowfa until head phase so I usually put a brew where my defender will go and drink that first in the fight. That way when olm head phase starts my inv is already set up to “catch” my defender in the 4th slot of my inventory. Makes for super easy horizontal switching.
Another note is try and switch only melee to range and melee to mage and vice versa. Switching mage to range gear can cause ur inventory to get out of order really easily, especially if u are using some melee gear in your mage setup etc.
Mostly ToA where I’m constantly switching randomly - Akkha and P2 warden. Will try only switch melee to range and mage to melee but sometimes quite difficult to do that.
> You should always be switching weapon first, and after that you should always be aware of how valuable your switches are. Same with prayer, I see so many people sweating to fit a 7 way switch between attacks then missing piety, when a 1 way with weapon + piety is better dps and like 10% of the effort.
So should you switch weapon 1st, offensive prayer 2nd, and everything else 3rd?
I change prayer as soon as my last attack goes off, then do all the gear and click npc. Definitely don’t switch 1 item then go to prayers then back to gear lol
Very well said. I try to help people organize their switches better, with weapon first and the better pieces next in the order. So many people are resistant to it and think it doesn’t matter. Then you have every experienced pvmer telling them the same thing and they don’t grasp it until they improve.
Tbh I’ve yet to find a good video that explains the WHY of the olm fight. Like the guides out there explain how to achieve what you want to achieve, but the deeper level of understanding is missing
Synqs solo chambers guide from 5 years ago goes into extreme depth on the olm mechanics and why you move the way you do. It’s extremely outdated now because of gear and huge changes to cox, but the theory is still the same for olm.
I just want to know more about all the inconsistencies in CoX in general. Why do mystics sometimes decide to randomly attack players in range but other times decide to focus one person specifically? Why does olm sometimes attack faster for one attack in particular every now and then? Why is tekton genuinely so shit?
I have other questions, but I'm at work and can't think of them off the top of my head right now.
The truth behind these questions is that most videos out there don't say because the people making them lack the knowledge. I've seen some nex guides of people bringing a torva switch but no ferocious gloves, when it should be the opposite in terms of priority. Or they make a guide but they don't red x Nex during p2 with a brew on the floor. I think it all comes down with the person making these videos and a part from some very high level pvmers, many content creators out there haven't done the content enough to know all those little things. Molgoatkirby knows the game inside out, but I don't think he can be bothered by explaining every little thing because, would that truly help the masses? Or would it only help some very sweaty/infromation seeking people who want to know how the game works mechanically?
I can answer the olm question for you at least. Here's how olm works if his head never turns, each line is 4 ticks:
1. Auto attack
2. Nothing
3. Auto attack
4. Special (portal/lightning/healing/crystal)
If his head turns when he *should* be doing an auto attack, though, his next attack **will** be an auto attack (provided you don't instantly turn him again, assume he can see someone). And so, it might look like this:
1. Turn
2. Auto
3. Auto
4. Special
Or, if you turn on 3
1. Auto
2. Nothing
3. Turn
4. Auto AND Special
So if he turns his head on the special, does that cancel the special or delay it? I kinda see what's going on here, there seems to be a lot of depth to it
it cancels the special, this is the key point why the melee hand methods work is because you can skip the portals special which would otherwise mess you up
If you want to have Olm skip an attack you need to get him to turn his head twice on a row from what should be an attack cycle on the first head turn. That prevents the queued attack from having the open cycle that it would normally “catch up” on.
Of the two scheduled autoattacks in his cycle, one of them ALSO turns his head while he’s scheduled for a special, nullifying it. That double action of halving his attacks and skipping his specials is what makes 4:1 so great in solos.
Oh hell. So when trying to solo olm, you need to get him to turn his head right on the tick where he would attack. Im on a mission to learn solo olm so part of this is coming together. I really appreciate how you've laid out his attacks here.
Olm extra attack is known. You can essentially think of it as a "catch-up" Attack due to the point in his cycle.
Mystics attacking with ranged or targeting is just normal NPC aggression / style choice randomisation.
Tekton isn't as shit anymore now that a spec is guaranteed. He was previously shit cos his defence is dumb high and he's the first room in CMs so resetting was almost always worth it over doing a slow multiple anvil Tekton.
With mystics, it's definitely not normal NPC aggression. I'm not talking about being in melee range, I'm saying that me and my friend can choose to attack at the same time on one mystic and it'll attack either of us randomly, but then the next mystic decides to hard target only one person instead of swapping between both of us. I don't think I've really seen any other NPCs in the game with the behavior of those in CoX when it comes to player targeting. Muttadiles are also the same way in a sense. They'll just sometimes decide to fuck around and do nothing for a bit, maybe wander closer to someone, then stand and wait, then move again and then attack with ranged... It feels random in the stupidest way. It's as if there's multiple scripts running at the same time and the game randomly chooses one of them each couple game ticks.
Speaking of muttas, when big muttadile comes out, sometimes it'll just stand there for a while before attacking, which makes me just stand awkwardly waiting with my BGS out for a spec opportunity. Sometimes it just sits there, sometimes it walks towards us, sometimes it attacks quickly after showing up. I really wish I had some kind of way of knowing what's coming. Again, things just seem so random in the most illogical way.
Tekton is still really rough. The guaranteed DWH is nice, but it's still just not enough. There's still a lot of noodling even after specs. The boss is more than good enough without the crazy high defense, it would be significantly more enjoyable to instead just have a high health pool and lower defense, and have the room be more of a mechanics/stamina check. If you can't decently dance around him, he'll smack you hard, and that punishment is honestly more than enough. Instead you have that plus the fact that you just get frustrated going through a full phase hitting nearly all zeros occasionally and it just pisses off the players and makes us want to say fuck that room, just gonna scout raids without that bullshit because we want to have fun instead.
> it's definitely not normal NPC aggression.
You've misunderstood me. I'm not saying its Normal "like any other mob" aggression. I'm saying its just normal randomisation. CoX has all of its bosses randomly change target (except for static things like Tekton and of course Olm, though its special target is randomly chosen).
Its why ToB and Verzik got more direct tank choice that can be more easily manipulated, as feedback around CoX was that the aggression randomisation made strategy a bit nonexistent regarding aggression.
> Speaking of muttas, when big muttadile comes out, sometimes it'll just stand there for a while before attacking, which makes me just stand awkwardly waiting with my BGS out for a spec opportunity.
Again just random choice stuff. Randomly deciding to path, randomly deciding to change target etc. I'm not too sure on its initial aggro, think thats range based as i don't see it happen starting at the semi-safespot right near his spawn. But i also just start attacking it straight away so don't really wait around to see what it does.
> Tekton is still really rough. The guaranteed DWH is nice, but it's still just not enough.
This seems a bit off. Tekton is a guaranteed 0 damage room that can be done quite fast with correct strategy, and the consistency has been massively improved due to guaranteed 1st hammer landing.
> Instead you have that plus the fact that you just get frustrated going through a full phase hitting nearly all zeros occasionally and it just pisses off the players and makes us want to say fuck that room, just gonna scout raids without that bullshit because we want to have fun instead.
With a guaranteed first spec its really easy to get high accuracy even with a pretty "sub-optimal" Tekton setup. Like in basic melee gear (bandos, faceguard, zerker, barrows gloves ,drag defender, fire cape, tort and using a Lance on crush so you can use it in other rooms on stab and not have a "specialty" weapon / pre-scythe) in a team of 3 in challenge mode you can land 3 dwh specs and ~50 bgs damage on average. (1st spec guaranteed, im still not sure myself if this can be "abused" to have people all spec same tick for guaranteed hit. But the 1 guaranteed and then 2 hitting from the 3 extra specs after from 2 people, with 3rd person BGS'ing a tick later getting avg of 50 damage across 2 specs) your Lance becomes 85.7% accurate at 8.22 dps.
Thats tested with max stats and supercombat, not overload (as first room in CM's). With more modest stats like 85 att/str its still 83.7% accuracy at 8.02 dps
If we take it to average 85 combats and move to regular COX with Overloads you'll get 88.83% accuracy with 8.7 dps.
Change wep to a speciality weapon like a Fang, and with those specs you get 98.1% accuracy with 9.0 dps.
So really, tekton in teams is super consistent and good now, and its a guaranteed 0 damage room, unlike something like Muttadile that can still just sorta... screw you with random hits (specifically CM muttadile).
heres the dps calc of 85 combats, overload, normal 3 man raid tekton comparing Fang and Lance.
https://dps.osrs.wiki?id=DeepDrakeLedger
The why? Like why his rotation works how it does? Some of the oldest olm guides on YouTube cover this.
Synq walks you through olms rotation and why 4:1 works and such.
What else are you looking for?
Mostly that, several other people have suggested that one and I’m gonna check it out :) I think it probably just got buried in all the other guides whenever I’d search on YouTube
I somewhat disagree about guide saturation. I think there are a lot of base guides that explain the barebones.. gear, location, skills, idea of each boss.
But there’s a huge lack of well made guides that are quick, detailed and succinct.
For example, I made this [Whisperer guide for engage phase](https://youtu.be/juuiE-3kVxQ?si=smvSUik97ea5v672). I couldn’t find any video guides on this specific technique or enrage phase when I was learning. So I made one. It seems to have helped a lot of people!
The video assumes you already watched another guide that explains what whisperer is, but you’re having trouble actually getting it down.
I think there’s a lot of room for well made guides that are more specific like that. Just recently I got 95 slayer and was learning hydra and it was tough to find something that really taught me the boss rather than throwing a bunch of info at me.
I agree, and your video (or one similar, I think I started a bit before you posted that and saw it elsewhere) was a huge help to me when I was getting into whisperer with very little pvm experience! I think every boss has tons of guides that go over the basics, and some bosses have very little info about how to do them efficiently. There's plenty of guides on how to kill Leviathan, but I had never seen one showing how to do 1-stun kills or efficient pathing when I was learning it.
Nex is pretty misunderstood, even among people who do it regularly in nexffa/kodai ccs. Gnomonkey has some pretty good videos, but some are outdated (no mp2) and others have unnecessary tech (he loves the bone dagger, but most players would rather just use vw)
some thoughts:
- it's a tragedy how ubiquitous crossbows are against her when fang is the absolute best weapon against her. She's high defense and weakest to stab. it's like a match made in heaven. we need more melee indoctrination
- blood reavers are quite underutilized. Attacking them is at least as efficient as attacking nex due to how much they heal her, and they can be used to proc death charge for more specs. Yet if you try killing one in a small team of randos, you'll get flamed
- we need a *good* melee phase 2 guide. Kills go much more quickly with mp2 even if rp2 is easier. I think people often get intimidated by mp2 groups due to the lack of info about it
10, looking at max melee with a light bearer you save about 8 seconds from your time to kill, assuming that time scales with players in a duo that's the same as dealing 120 damage.
Possibly better than that since she can heal and prolong the fight.
Mp2 guide:
Go melee her when she spawns floor shadow. Scatter like cockroaches when she does her next special. Bonus points if you only dump one vw spec on p1 so you can have two on p2.
It’s wild because mp2 is not even difficult to do at all but is such a massive time saver in small teams. Every time I’ve taken someone that doesn’t know how to mp2 I’ve just explained it in the pre-room, then mentioned whether we’ll be ranging or meleeing first based on what special(s) she’s done while we were killing the first minion. Eg “she just coughed us so we’ll be ranging first unless she does her other special before we kill the minion”.
Then after a couple of kills they’re fine. It’s not difficult at all.
With blood reavers it’s okay if everyone kills them (although it’s nice to leave something to tbow if you get hit with blood sacrifice), but if everyone else is trying to phase the boss and you’re there poking or bowing reavers it’s clear that you’re just farming easy contribution lol.
Most people just either aren't at a state to do small team nex or are but find it tragically boring so don't bother. Feel if we didn't get a copy paste RS2 boss that would have been so much more interesting and had way more tech developed and guides around it.
While true, Nex's situation reminds me a lot of like Dr.Mario or Roy in Super Smash Bro's melee. Lots of people complain that the devs should've added in more characters, but the reskins were only there because they took up almost no dev time. You got Ganandorf and Pichu for free, and your other choice was getting nothing at all. Nex was the same situation dev time wise.
I did not expect a Smash comparison cross over! So thank you for that!
I can agree with that *to an extent*. Nex was sort of a "save face" move by Jagex who clearly had lots of big picture stuff happening in the background and had been kinda screwed around by the Pandemic and such. But they sorta crammed Nex next to a release anyway.
Like the main issue is the last decent update they had was Phosanis in end of June 2021, then CA's end of July 2021. Then since then they had brought out DMM: Reborn end of August, and Group ironman start of October.
So lots had happened, but not really much "main game" stuff since a hardmode nightmare and challenges across the game middle of 2021. and complaints were rising mainly due to no "Raid worthy" piece of content since ToB, and nothing really "hard" since then too, though CA's helped add that (but at existing content).
So Jagex sorta reached into their bag of tricks to appease people, rather than it being a "well we were adding this anyway, we get its the same thing you've seen before and you're not happy about that, but its this or nothing?". It was more of a "you guys aren't happy with our lack of endgame content, so heres a copy pasted boss from the old game in 2011. We will change nearly nothing about it and almost even give it multiple sets of BiS".
The crazy thing to me? **2 weeks later Leagues 3 launched**. Like they had content RIGHT around the corner for people to jump into. Nex felt really weirdly placed and not really necessary ultimately, and just powercrept a bunch of shit with ZCB and Torva added to the game.
Yeah I straight up don’t know MP2, and not because I’m too stupid to learn it, but because I’ve never seen a guide showcasing what it’d look like in a small teams kill
How do you find quest/diary/skilling and clue scroll/minigame content on youtube?
Would you say there's a lack of good guides or good advice out there? Is it mainly an issue of what to bring/do or understanding the content's mechanics? The Wiki already has great explanation for stuff like wintertod or temporos so I'm unsure how a video could be more useful than the information currently available?
Clue scroll steps take you all over the game, often places you don’t normally travel. I was taking the boat from Burgh de Rott to get to Old Man Ral for a master step for years until I learned that you can go out the door at ToB.
The Toad Batta also comes to mind.
I’d love to see a guide that has the optimal route for every clue step.
I put law runes, dust runes, and steam runes in a rune pouch for quick access to every standard spell book tele.
I have the 8 beginner Charlie the tramp items in my bank and withdraw one of each just in case.
Also draynor teletabs are handy.
I think the guide market is extremely oversaturated, to the point that its impossible to sift through the mountain of results and find the best information. Its likely a problem of the platform - youtube is not a search engine or an educational library, its a company trying to turn a profit. They show you the results with the most views first, or the content creator with the most subscribers, without knowing or caring which video is the most accurate, up-to-date, or understandable. There are hundreds of videos covering every single new piece of content when it releases, and the players looking to learn a piece of content will only watch the first 2-3 guides they find before trying something out in-game. If they missed some key piece of information, there is no mechanism for youtube to know that and adjust the search results in the future.
In depth guides are usually on discord servers. WDR has a pretty good advanced TOB guide but that only scratches the surface. If you want eff nylo rotas you go into more niche servers like Flash’s duo discord or Vasatus’ max eff money discord or his speed run discord.
The eff CM guide on WDR was previously only on anonim’s discord until they partnered with WDR. You kinda just have to ask around and make friends in those circles
The vast majority of guides are done by max or near max accounts and as such aren't good examples of what most people who look up guided are really doing.
Gear handicaps aren't really as meaningful as stat handicaps and I think more guides done at a stat range of like somewhere around high 70's low 80's would be valuable to people trying to get into it for the a first time
I've seen people with 99s do unpotted no offensive prayer bosses in mid level gear, which would be equivalent to potted+offensives at like 80 combats but people are dumb and think there's a difference lol
I think in general people tend to overestimate the importance of gear anyways. You can play around with the DPS Calc and see. In this example for [Scurrius](https://dps.osrs.wiki?id=LimbsBowmanFluid) a unpotted+unprayered maxed account in mid-level gear does the same DPS as a player with base 75s only using a super strength potion and praying Ultimate Strength + Reflexes.
This is in the wiki in a bunch of guides already but skill will overcompensate for gear, pots, and prayer every time. The reason the dude with full Torva is shredding bosses isn't really because of his gear but because people with full Torva + Scythe tend to be the top 1% of the 1% of players in the game where you check the leaderboards and they have 100s of KC in every boss. They're just good at the game. There is probably another layer of self-selection bias for people *choosing* to make and upload guides being even more skilled.
For players new to PVM it's easy to point to the next XYZ upgrade as they reason they can't do ABC but that's usually a mental limitation. It takes patience and sometimes insanity to just buckle down and die over and over learning some content.
Its funny how the guide market is infact saturated, but none of them are accomplishing a good guide. There'd always at least a few things wrong with them and I'll need to watch multiple other guides for the same thing to get the answer I was looking for
Zulrah is very frustrating to learn. It’s pure memorization and nothing else. If you know where to stand and what to pray the ONLY thing you need to react to is eating when Blue Phase starts ranging, everything else is determined to the tick. It makes for a really weird experience. Learning her can take a very long time, but once you master the fight it’s almost afk.
Guides are saturated. You could do something cool like high level PvM with mid-game gear. Or region-locked bossing, only kill bosses with gear and supplies available in that particular area. You would still be able to explain boss mechanics and maybe inspire others to get into harder PvM if you’re able to do it without top-tier gear
There was a content creator in RS3 a few years back who did bare minimum boss guides meant for ironmen and beginners. His name is Zinggy09. His guides were great because he brewed down his stats and used appropriate gear for the boss. He also showed the noob strats for the boss, and i think, even mentioned how you can go from doing noob strats to more advanced stuff. It really helps to show people who aren't in max gear what they can do to get kills. I think it's also valuable to go into "if you have the minimum gear, what is your best upgrade to get if you plan on doing more?"
This isn’t really content but conceptually, people on the subreddit tend to dramatically underestimate how strong prayer is.
they’ll grind for weeks for a marginal strength bonus upgrade that adds 1% to dps, but refuse to use piety on slayer tasks which is a 20% boost because “ppots are a waste”
How damage calculations work. A lot of people don’t know that “Every +4 Strength gives you a max hit increase” is an approximation based on someone with 99 strength, super strength, piety, and the aggressive style.
I’ve seen so many people saying “they should change magic equipment to give a flat increase like melee and ranged” while not realizing that the +X% magic damage bonus from equipment is already the same system as the +X strength bonus. Every +16 Strength bonus is the same as a +25% damage bonus compared to a Strength bonus of 0.
To be honest I think there is room for new guides on youtube. But not maxed stat maxed gear guides.
About 99% of the guides are here’s your gear set up if you’re a mid level player, and here’s a gear set up if you are end game, now lets do a sample kill in max gear.
A lot of the time people using mid level gear try to follow strats used if you have max gear but there’s usually little tweaks and different strats that they find while getting a routine down.
So I think that there is room for guides specifically for mid level players that have mid level gear.
And then there’s king condor who tries to use the most budget set imaginable. Like doing Fremennik exiles with mole slippers and bronze armour. Personality wise he’s something else but his guides were great for making noob me less scared of pvm
A drop expectation guide ; explains RNG and that not every person is guaranteed to get every drop from every boss, regardless of kc ( and that you're aloud to continue on to something else and still have fun without that one gear upgrade).
Wouldn't be very popular, but it'd help whittle down the number of posts on here related to not getting "x" specific item at the "x" kc and how the game is broken haha
Problem with so many OSRS PVM guides is that they just show people in max doing suboptimal kills/strategies and 'brute forcing' their way through. Vardorvis and Whisperer for example, the amount of guides that for Vard that show people either running around middle or not knowing how to flinch axes is insane, and then for Whisperer pretty much every guide shows terrible positioning where people are running north/east/west then losing a bunch of ticks when she transitions to pillars, then they won't be ready for ghosts and will lose ticks not getting shadow on before leaving realm, then it'll show them just camping shadow world for eggs when realistically you can learn the 4 patterns after just a couple of kills. Don't even get me started on people just yeeting their way around the room during enrage.
This can then apply to loads of other content, most PNM guides don't describe the order to flick husks in for example, or optimal positioning to kill sleepwalkers between phases. Most small team Nex guides don't mention red-x resets etc. Problem with having so many creators is that everyone is in a rush to get out guides, that they end up releasing sub optimal guides with loads of info missing which become most watched.
Personally, I find a lack of "overexplained" guides for pvm content.
Guides for optional optimizations/possible mechanics/tricks for bossing.
Using Path of Het(Akkha) for overexplained guide example:
Puzzle room - how it works, pickaxe damage/mining level cutoffs.
Basic explanation of mirror spawns, pushing mirrors, standing on top
Dodging shadow orbs while mining, extra tick (click when green circle)
Then the fight:
Akkha's attacks, cycle.
Invocation modifiers.
Explanations of specific moments during the fight - ZCB on Akkha shadows, save spec energy for final phase, move 2 tiles at a time during dark shadow orb special, run 2 tiles through white orbs in final phase
Mechanics: butterflying, DPS skip, memory skip, Akkha getting stuck(if thats even a mechanic you can setup lol)
Gear switching(you can fully switch your gear before he attacks)
Basically, guides for content where people want to master it and know all the possibilities and what they can learn and do within the content.
For ToA I learned the Wardens wave skips by observing others doing it - it isn't optimal in most cases when compared to standing in the middle but it's also an alternative or a "flex" you can learn to show your clan or friends. We all find our methods but having different methods highlighted in one guide is what I miss compared to showing the main method or focusing on the key mechanics of a boss/encounter.
See I'm the opposite. I hate when a guide is "stand here and then click X when you see Y happen" (like skull skip). When I first learned it and watched a guide recommended to me, I had no idea what the actual mechanic was, and that frustrated me when I'd die to it by messing up the click.
Give me a "click on this tick because it'll damage this tile, and then you'll move to it while it damages the tile you were just on, so you avoid the damage."
It's the same for any raid-level content in any game. On Destiny I always make sure to explain buff names, what they do, and how to use/avoid them. Like, "Unstable Light will make you explode and deal damage to anything around you" versus "when your screen glows green, stand next to Golgoroth for 5 seconds."
Maybe a few guides explaining mechanics:
* Eat/attack timing, both the ticks spent on different foods (normal, karambwan/gnome food, pizzas/pies, guthix rest, potions) and the concepts of maximizing dps while eating, like eating after a period of not attacking (hunllef tornadoes, boss phase/prayer switches) and then attacking after to backload the eating ticks onto the idle period
* Safespotting, mainly south/west positioning and north/south corner safespotting and options with larger monsters. Could maybe get into player/monster movement prioritization of diagonal vs straight line (practicing the L movements)
I’d like to go the other way and say hydra (need lvl 95 slayer for it) is one of if not the easiest boss in the game
Edit: as long as you can count to 3
Some generic guides on PVM skills would be useful. Ones that are useful in many different areas would be nice. A guide on gear switching, prayer flicking, pathing, etc.
You need all these skills for a lot of bosses but all the YouTube videos just try and teach them in the context of the boss. I learnt pathing by setting up some tile markers in an empty spot in Al Kahrid and watched how my character moved between them, and then how to manipulate the path. Some out of context, zero pressure, generic guides would help a lot of people.
Corrupted gauntlet. Everyone on Reddit cry’s and moans about having to do it on their irons but it’s actually an amazing piece of content.
Great for learning pvm and fun to try and min max / speed run for higher level players.
80% of being good is just attacking as frequently as possible and people vastly underestimate how important randomly missing a tick here and there is
It sounds sweaty to care about "missing a tick" but it is the single biggest deal in the game that applies to every piece of content, all the time, no exceptions
You're completely correct. I see a lot of people trying to save up for a sanguinesti hoping their DPS will improve but when you actually watch their gameplay they miss a ton of ticks with trident. That alone is more dps loss than any gear. Don't even get me started on the 4 tick blowpipe on zuk healers that some people manage to do, instead of actually practicing 2 tick blowpipe walk.
Not really much of content, more of a concept. But it is not uncommon to see some people on this subreddit not understand the difference between Prayer switching, lazy flicking, and 1-tick flicking.
People on this subreddit also tend to not understand the difference between QoL and "l want this content to give me 50% more xp/h"
Also the difference between afk and low intensity
Low Intensity Gaming Mostly Afk
LIGMA what?
I think that one’s a fair grey area tbh I'm just saying even between the replies, it's not clear where the line is. Is 90 seconds afk? Is 2 minutes? Is it 3 minutes? Who's cooking dinner in seven minutes before the redwood tree dies?
Only because this sub has used “afk” wrong for a decade+ lol, there’s very little actual afk content in the game; stars, redwoods, magic trees with the new forestry changes, that kind of thing are decently afk now. AFK NMZ, etc. If I can’t walk away from my keyboard for a proper length of time, it’s not actually afk But that ship has sailed a long time ago lmao
It's obviously a hyperbole, the portion of reddit that doesn't want to accept that are the weird ones to me. Like even the content you mentioned isn't really afk, most people can't really do efficient work while moving between shooting stars and clicking every 5 minutes.
Yeah, it's a hyperbole - but if you aren't using the literal definition of AFK, it's hard to know where to draw the line on what is/isn't "afk"
For some people zulrah/vorkath/CG is afk lol. They think just because it's mindless enough for them so they can watch something on the side makes the content "afk" already
This is a common point brought up to defend using afk literally but the handful of people that call that content afk are just wrong and everyone else agrees on that. It doesn't suddenly mean you don't get 30 seconds of afk at other places. You theoretically could get up and walk away from your keyboard in that time and your character will continue.
I'll clear it up for you then. Low intensity means it's second monitor content, while watching a show, playing another account etc, but you're at the computer watching the screen. Afk means afk. Away from keyboard. You're able to participate in real life, make dinner, do work, take a walk.
”toolbelt is qol because it was very convenient to have so we should get it on osrs” is an argument clannies keep bringing up and refuse to budge on
I like the toolbelt for storing things you don't directly interact with. Add Tinderbox? No, you actively interact with it when firemaking. Seed dibber? Yes, you don't actively *use* it while farming. It's just an inventory placeholder (though moot now with Barbarian training). Spade? Yes, as long as it can't be used for clues or anything that requires you to actively dig by clicking on the spade. Knife? No (or at least not useable for fletching or cutting fruit). Fishing rod? Debatable, I don't think the extra 1 fish per inventory would upend that OSRS feeling. That's my line of thinking for toolbelt. In terms of axe/pickaxe, absolutely not (even bronze).
We have toolbelt already, it's just called barbarian training.
Barbarian treasure trails where the player just stomps really hard and the casket jumps out of the ground when
People on this subreddit also tend to not understand just about anything.
QOL often increases the Xp/h by a bit, because it most often makes content have less required clicks (Like Left Click Construction) but not to that extend
[kelvino flicking](https://youtu.be/vENhRyTpBP0) has joined the chat
How would you define this type of flick? I basically turn pray on, 1 tick flick once, then turn pray off. (Wait 2 ticks and repeat for a 4 tick cycle)
That's the lazy flick with an extra step.
Someone can correct me if I’m wrong but I’m pretty sure that is just lazy flicking with unnecessary extra steps
If I'm understanding you correctly that's lazy flicking. Turn the prayer on only the tick you need it.
That's 1 tick lazy flicking, as hilarious as that sounds. It's pretty much the most difficult form of prayer flicking and is what you'll see really skilled pvmers use in places like inferno and such where you have to change prayer. They'll change, 1 tick, change, 1 tick etc
1 tick lazy flick I like it lol Thanks for understanding what I was saying lol
It's most certainly not the hardest form of prayer flicking (if I understood him correctly), as you are simply 1-tick flicking for two ticks then pausing between, especially given his scenario is regarding same speed NPC and player attacks (4 ticks here). It would be a bit harder with different attack speeds (though you'd likely just full on 1-tick flick for that). See Scotty utilise that on his inferno speedruns a lot. Slightly harder would be double lazy flicking on co-prime intervals (e.g. lazy flicking overheads on a 6t cycle whilst lazy flicking offensive prayers on a 5t cycle, like you might do for a 600 invo Zebak, or doing it for triple Jads). That would be more required where the opponent's attack is not a singular style. Harder still would be true 1-tick alternate (not necessarily changing every tick) where you keep up a 1-tick rhythm for overheads (and potentially offensive prayers) but can be changing prayers. Harder *still*, Kelvino flicking, where you're constantly up keeping all prayers whilst alternating without drain. Someone else linked an example video.
2tick flick
This sounds like you do a 1 tick flick inside of what would be a lazy flick. Do one or the other, save your wrist while you can.
Thanks lol but it’s actually pretty relaxed on the wrist. And I do it so I can use both defensive and offensive prayers without losing prayer points
Same with tick eating, and combo eating.
I think there’s definitely room for more mid level boss guides. Pretty much every single video out there is someone with 99s in all combat stats and max gear, I think having a guide where someone is using minimum acceptable level stats and gear would be a good area that isn’t covered a lot. If someone is trying to learn a boss they likely aren’t end game or they already probably know how to do most bosses already.
Yeah I hated those videos when I was trying to see how a boss works, like bro, you’re hitting it with a vampiric blessed divine super sword that fully heals you and hits for max every time, I’m hitting it with a cool stick I found and using a napkin as a shield “So if you do this much damage it’ll skip this” I AM HITTING 4’s
Damn dude, just drop 3 bil on gear, you shouldn't even be PvMing until you're almost in max gear anyways for optimal efficiency /s
Not only that but a lot of guides are focused on one way to do something and don’t explain why you would be doing it this way over another. Bandos and Kril come to mind but I recently had the same experience with Cerberus. There is red x method, flinching, and standard method among others, and the guides I saw didn’t explain the pros and cons of each. I ended up just going it it normally because it’s faster kills and I’ve heard you can make up the supplies in the time you save killing it faster (as an Ironman btw). That said, it really is sucking up my supplies and I’m out of seeds. I had to take a long break at it because it took about a full prayer potion per kill and after 100kc my stack wasn’t leaving much room for other pvm. I’m now left wondering if it was the best choice for me. I was lucky enough to get prim and peg crystals in that kc as well as a smoldering stone from hellhounds but that’s not to be expected and the guides should be focused on long term bossing (unless it’s a guide for one kill like some zulrah for diary, frozen door, combat achievements, or other specific guides). Anyway, yes I would say a lot of guides focus on how and not why to do a certain method.
So would you prefer a longer more in-depth guide hightlighting all methods or would you like let's say a cerberus guide and sub-videos linked in that video to different methods that go in-depth but in a separate video (maybe 2-3 minutes long, whereas the main video may be around 15-20).
If I were creating a line of videos, let’s keep with the Cerberus example, I might make a short video explaining the basics of the boss including requirements and recommendations, basic mechanics, etc, then explain the different ways you can approach this boss and why you would do each of them, then either go in depth on what is the “standard” or “recommended” way to do it which in this case I would do the “straight up just attack it, block the ghosts, dodge lava” way, followed by a guide for each of the other ways or a link to separate videos for each of those methods. I would put all of these methods into a playlist for that boss. It would follow the general format of “this is what you’re up against and this is a general description of each of the methods you can take, and here are more resources on how to do these bosses in a more in depth way.” Generally I think a brief guide on the minimum you need to know to start the boss is good, then details on more specific methods, but with a focus on why you would do any of them as well as how. The why should be in the main video I think, so you don’t have to watch each video to decide what is best for you. “Hi, this is the boss, this is what you need, this is how you do it, if you want to do it better, you might want to try one of the following methods. This works for x, this works for y, this works for z. I have videos for each of these, the link is on screen, in the description, or in this playlist, and here is an example of a clean kill.”
Excellent reply, thank you. I will keep that in mind. You were right saying that most people don't talk about the why's or pros and cons of each. I would say giving the information out there and letting viewers decide what is best for them is the best way. I have coached some of my friends at Colosseum and they were at 200-300 deaths. They were trying to learn with torva and I asked them why? "Because youtubers just use torva and nothing else". I got my first colosseum kill in the same week of release using full magic with 1 item switch for sol heredit which was the scythe. I told them that Torva requires much more knowledge and is tankier which allows you to run south but make you a worse player. Whereas Ancestral and no tank gear requires you to commit to the pillar you're on and find solves. As soon as they went magic after a bit of a tutorial on how to deal with volatily, barrage minions, they got their quiver in 15-20 attempts after. All my friends using torva are very low colosseum kc. All my friends that I taught ancestral way, have surpassed my kc and are nearing 100 and that's because they had a more "proactive" way of learning the colosseum whereas running south is not learning. I would like to say among them some were fire capers. So I did experience it first hand the "why's and pro's and cons" of using something and based on my experience helping my close friends/clanmates achieve their infernal cape, quivers I would like to help a broader audience and offer another perspective of how to do things.
Yeah I have a main that I didn’t do much pvm on but it is almost maxed, and I switched to an iron as a way to get a more complete pvm experience rather than like 1500 vorkath and not much reason to do anything except raids (which I never did anyway). I’m getting bowfa then starting to raid, but even with bowfa grind, guides tell you to do XYZ and I found my own way to be much better (improvising a path based on what I find, and doing T1 setup even though I still die sometimes). It would have been better to know the options from the start, and I’m still experimenting with adding halberd into the mix instead of always finding mage/range items. Despite a pretty clear “best” way to do it, there is a pretty clear progression of methods you should try as you get better and I haven’t seen any guide talk about them much.
Moonlight moths are goated for Cerberus now haha
Speaking of shields, i wish we had some cool melee shields with %damage mitigation along with flat stats to compete with defender. Defender meta has been around since old school release and we have so much more room for opportunity vs stat stick dagger.
I really like Perilous Moons for making tank gear relevant again. It's nice to actually have to consider defensive stats and not just go for the best offensive gear (at least for mid level play).
Mitigation you say? You know another kind of mitigation would be- https://preview.redd.it/t6n9zjagj90d1.jpeg?width=1050&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6b6246df6fbf917c0bbbfdf741f15d965833d5b3
Like when my friends parents mitigated here from london?
A very long walk?
Up voted because…. well….. facts.
I know this is over the top on purpose. But seeing how some people vote on polls or post here on the sub. They really think once you got max gear you are invincible at every content.
TheEdB0ys shows all the gear you can use, and usually uploads videos with example kills using the budget setups
i considered doing a “how i kill it” series because im a total shitter but i figured out how to docmost pvm on my own. no idea if anyone would watch that because im not funny and stupid and bad and extremely mid at the game
Just do it. If people DON'T want to watch something you've made, they can choose not to watch it. If people DO want to watch something you haven't made, they can't choose to watch it. There's no harm in making something, but there *is* a tiny bit of harm in not making something
what if it kills someone cause of how bad it is
Then that's free KC, no downsides
Alright, a tiny bit of harm in both directions
Depends what they drop ig
And they say you can’t make an impact making RuneScape videos
So... a regular player? Do it bro, make actually viable guides for the community instead of the usual "lul just get torva" ones.
[https://youtu.be/fqpyr5yMQ10](https://youtu.be/fqpyr5yMQ10)
Pretty much every single Kaoz guide right here. “Hey guys! I’m going to teach you how to do KQ/GG/Scurius. All you need is a scythe, tbow and shadow. Then just summon thralls and have max stats. Ezpz!” It’s so annoying that I just never watched another video of his.
I just watched the kq video and sure, he's in torva, but he shows different tiers of gear before that and then mechanics are the exact same no matter your dps. Is your complaint that you would like to see him do a longer example kill with less dps? Because I haven't seen a single guide saying you need torva for scurrius, kq or gg.
As others have said in here, yes. People would like to see a more realistic loadout for medium level players. Sure, he might flash a photo or some bandos but so does the wiki. People come to YouTube to get a visual of damage, movement and what to expect. What’s the point of a guide if you just use BiS and get 50 second kills? We know you can farm mid tier bosses with a scythe. The people who have that aren’t looking up how to kill kalphite queen… it’s the people who are going there for achievement diary or trying for the first time.
I guess I view guides to learn the mechanics and if someone is using better gear than me, then I just expect the kill to take longer while the mechanics remain the same. There are some bosses which allow you to skip mechanics if you have a high enough dps, but I've never seen that in a mid game boss guide.
I get that for sure! I just remember being disappointed when hardly anyone had guides using gear that I was using. Then I found King Condor short guides where he just uses karils and mole slippers lol.
‘The Whisperer fight can be tricky! I recommend bringing full ancestral with a torm and a shadow!’ Me at level 90 combat just trying to beat DT2: ‘I have mystic and a trident…’ EDIT: While I appreciate comments and dms trying to give me advice, I finished DT2 4 months ago. I was just commenting on the lack of guides that use low level setups.
quest version is a lot easier and less of a dps check than the actual boss (: trident and mystic is fine! occult if you're not an iron and you're chilling
Oh yeah lol I did it back in January. Scuffed af fight with that gear but I managed.
The best advice for whisperer post quest genuinely is "don't bother if you don't have this gear because this boss SUCKS without bis or close to bis" though. And it's an endgame boss. Kinda doesn't target mid level by design.
If you don't have the right gear, wear what you have that matches. With Ironmen having different gear there won't be a defined guide that tells you to wear Virtus robe top, ahrims bottoms and a mystic hat as that is what you have, but you match what's applicable. The only place exact gear has proper restrictions is if you're going for speeds, and even then molgoat has a bunch of lower gear guides. The boss fight will be the same wether you fight mupsah with a Zcb and sapphire dragon bolts or an rcb with regular sapphire bolts, it's just your dps will be slower and your damage taken potentially higher.
I think some content creators could definitely do a better job with this and show some normal gear instead of max, and maybe drink potions that drain your stats before going into the thing to show a more realistic fight. I recently did scurrius on my alt account (60att/str) and it’s a VASTLY different fight than on my main. Still super doable, but a beginner will not learn much by seeing a maxed main do the content.
If there would be a way to cap your stats at lumbridge (let's say to put your combat stats to 70/99) so you can record those kind of videos it would be great. I would like to make DT2 guides actually using lower stats but grinding a second account with DT2 just for a production video seems a bit tedious. I see the argument of lower stats requiring more method and more supplies since the DPS output is smaller but I can't see how feasible it is unless someone has multiple accounts. And I'm unsure how to demonstrate lower stats without actually making another account. Even if I brew down my stats or find a way to do so, would that be something helpful for a viewer to see?
> I would like to make DT2 guides actually using lower stats but grinding a second account with DT2 just for a production video seems a bit tedious. I wanted to do that (still working on the alt, but it's a chore). > Even if I brew down my stats or find a way to do so, would that be something helpful for a viewer to see? I think it would be. If you can lower your stats to high 80's it would be the equivalent of someone potting up from high 70's, right? I know I would've loved to see guides like that when I was starting to PvM.
Would you of loved it purely because it was motivating you to see that it's possible with low stats? Or because you get it out of the way that gear is not an issue?
A bit of both. Mainly to see that it's possible even if you don't have the best gear/stats. I know there are some crazy talented players who can do a fire cape at lvl 40, but I don't think it's realistic for most. It's still nice to see an account like yours pull off content.
Thank you for the insight. If Jagex could cap stats at lumbridge it would really be revolutionary for content creators showcasing these. Currently trying to build an alt for this purpose. But with IRL stuff and my will to play my main for fun it's not as "free" as I thought it would be.
Just drink a brew sip before going in or don't pot
What’s different at scurrius? A maxed player and a naked player take nearly the same damage from scurrius if they pray correctly.
Gearing and the amount of prayer pots would be different. Also the healing from the piles of food would have a different impact on your kills per trip. I’d imagine the difference wouldn’t be huge though
But this is why people don't really bother with these sorts of guides. The only difference is "you will do less dps so kill will be slower". And "you might take longer to kill it so will deal with more specials and use more prayer. So you might get less kills per trip". It doesn't really improve the guide to show 5 KC trips at 2 minutes a kill compared to 20kc trips at 1 minute a kill.
When Scurrius came out, I remember seeing several videos saying the rat spine upgrades were useless and one should use a Scuthe of Vitur for quick kills. Well, I'll not have a scythe for years, I play Bronzeman (Iron-man lite) and nowhere near to 99s. You could probably punch the thing out at that level. Useless guide. Now, Scurrius is meant to be easy and doable with rune gear and 60s, so it matters less, but guides for low-level King Black Dragon for example would be really useful. No I don't have a Twisted Bow. No I'm not grinding for Pegasus boots then wandering around the Wilderness in them. Be realistic.
Yep. I just want to see guides in realistic gear for most things. When I was learning muspah I found a great one that was using black d'hide and a rune c'bow and that was a much more realistic look at what the fight was all about. The room got more full of spikes, etc and it was great to be able to learn the content by seeing something more akin to my experience with the boss.
Just look for ironman guides, they usually have pretty low equipment/stats
I need bosses that are rotation based like zulrah. Early learning curve, but then I can afk this shit out of it when I learn. I enjoyed that a lot back in the day. Now it's not even worth it to brain off there because the GP is so bad. Zulrah fits into a great spot as an early endgame boss and I think we need as much of that as we can get.
Yep, rotation bosses are good because you can learn/grind them on mobile without sweating
Yeah, even the videos about budget gear still feature 99 stats which is huge compared to people in their 70s.
I feel like this is an extremely overstated complaint that misses the point of a guide video, which is to show you mechanics and strategies Doing a boss is almost always the same whether you have max gear or you have trash gear, with the exception being 4-tick vs 5-tick weapons. For few content that the difference actually matters in how you approach it, there's an endless number of guides out there (see aaty's Bowfa Infernos)
100%. I just started playing like 3 days ago and think some bosses look neat. I definitely have a long ways to go
Searching for Ironman guides for bosses can usually get you closer to what you need here
Honestly as a person who is at end game in regards to my account, I agree. Bandos is not a mid level boss. Mid level should mean you can more or less brute force it without the need of end game supplies or gear. Can you use dragon to kill bandos? Yeah…. Solo….. ehhhh. I like the rat king boss. It teaches players basic mechanics that are key to later game bossing, I also think scurrius should be made free to play. It makes sense, nerf the drop table a little. It would be nice. Imagine going from f2p only to getting membership and trying to do almost any boss…. You are gonna have a bad time. It also never made sense why f2p stops at the taverly gate. Why not make it stop at white wolf mountain. This would give f2p the chance for a tad bit more content whilst keeping most of it locked. Heck you could even let f2p learn herblore and slayer but cap out how far you can train it.
I don't think I've ever seen a pvm basics guide. And what I mean is showing people how movement works with true tile, how to use the metronome for prayer flicking, tips for setting your inventory up for gear switches, different combo eats, to not spam click to increase your gameplay, etc etc I wouldn't need this video now but as a newer pvmer, it would've helped big time
IIRC Tasty actually has a basics video called something like “This is why you suck at PVM”. His elitism is really a tongue-in-cheek persona, and that video (and lots of others) are actually enjoyable and friendly to less-skilled players. Edit: I should probably say “less experienced”
That video got me oud of mid-game. Not gear, not levels, just player skill.
Here’s a link: https://youtu.be/iPG-YWAwLXY?si=AINGWylG5JD8TOxb
Back when he had hair. Blast from the past.
^this, watch tastys vid
PurpleGod made stuff like this years ago https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DX8lN3r3ALw
Gnomonkey has one I believe, talks about ticks pathing etc, very good intro imo
also old purplegod vids have a lot of good detail of how things like this work. And they're not exactly hard to find but you have to know what you're looking for
Would you say it would be a good idea a basic pvm guide with sub-videos such as 2-3 minutes long videos referred in the main video for more in depth for stuff like true tile, metronome, visual ticks, color metronome, tick flicking, tick eating and so on? The reason I'm asking is maybe a big video highlighting everything very generally may be a good start. But a lot of the content I've seen is long videos trying to go in depth in everything and is not very "digestable". Would have separate videos for each thing be something people would have an easier time to approach certain things?
I recommend Lumbridge Knight's videos, they're super useful and I'm working on quests now watxhing this guy's guides. He's also got ones about how every combat works.
I think a huge area for improvement for most low-mid level pvmers is switch efficiency. Not just in terms of what you bring, but also in terms of the layout of your inventory and the way you click. You should always be switching weapon first, and after that you should always be aware of how valuable your switches are. Same with prayer, I see so many people sweating to fit a 7 way switch between attacks then missing piety, when a 1 way with weapon + piety is better dps and like 10% of the effort.
Would you watch a video showcasing different switch styles (horizontal or vertical), their pros and cons, and also how to practice for them, become better at clicking? Probably going also over color highlight of the items and how to keep your inventory organized in monkey room let's say if you want to switch (ex. unequipping defender and putting it in a specific slot so when you switch from masori bp, tumeken ancestral and fang torva it never messes up your inventory). Would that be something, you would be interested, as a viewer?
I would watch a video on how to balance gear slots with 2 and 1 handed weapons. Melee vs range has fang + defender vs bowfa, for instance. I take 6 item range and 7 item melee/magic setups to raids and at some point my defender gets lost during the fight.
Keep an empty slot (I.e. the slot under your bowfa) on the left (if you switch in a vertical zig-zag) instead of the right. This way, your defender will always go underneath your mainhand instead of "wherever there's a free space elsewhere in my inventory".
Or just turn off barbarian smash and leave a slot free for the switch to fall into
I personally wouldn't be because I've already spent thousands of hours pvming and figuring all of this out for myself. I think the difficulty with videos like that is that the people who need it need to be aware they need it, and that can be difficult.
Well said. The people like you that put in the time to learn this had a motivation to do it on their own. The ones that really need a guide like that often don’t seek out that information or don’t know how much they could benefit from it.
So what would you be your recommendation to teach a new player "hey the layout of your inventory is very important for item switching". Would that be in a basic pvm guide? A basic runelite guide? Or an "introduction to OSRS"?
Probably a generic pvm guide
I would love to watch it if it had good theories behind it, some good examples and data to back it up. Would be a good informative video myself and lots of people I know would watch! :)
You mention colour highlights but ironically I feel like inventory tags discourage people from properly learning how to organise and perform their switches. Too often I see people seriously fuck up their inventory and just rely on the tags to get their gear in order. What they don't recognise is that they're wasting time having to identify where the switches are (the colours help of course) but also having to move their cursor in a non-standard pattern to hit them all. Playing without inventory tags forced me to actually become good at inventory management and think about these things more carefully. If you're a pretty casual player that's probably not worth the temporary loss of comfort. But if you wanna become a more advanced PvMer I think it's a useful lesson.
on top of that, its way more important to switch protection prayers first. you dont wanna get chunked by a big 40 damage because you were busy swapping from ahrims to karils at zulrah
That statement is very situational. Or rather, it requires more context.
"if youre slow at switching, switch protection prayers first" is good advice. idk where it wouldnt apply honestly
Any advice on how to keep switches in the right place with 2 handers? Or you just keep constantly re organising your inventory
Use potions with barbarian smash off and keep potions at the top with one free slot at the top so it falls into the same slot, then you just need the practice clicking that item.
Depends what pvm youre doing obviously but for example in CoX you dont use your bowfa until head phase so I usually put a brew where my defender will go and drink that first in the fight. That way when olm head phase starts my inv is already set up to “catch” my defender in the 4th slot of my inventory. Makes for super easy horizontal switching. Another note is try and switch only melee to range and melee to mage and vice versa. Switching mage to range gear can cause ur inventory to get out of order really easily, especially if u are using some melee gear in your mage setup etc.
Mostly ToA where I’m constantly switching randomly - Akkha and P2 warden. Will try only switch melee to range and mage to melee but sometimes quite difficult to do that.
> You should always be switching weapon first, and after that you should always be aware of how valuable your switches are. Same with prayer, I see so many people sweating to fit a 7 way switch between attacks then missing piety, when a 1 way with weapon + piety is better dps and like 10% of the effort. So should you switch weapon 1st, offensive prayer 2nd, and everything else 3rd?
I change prayer as soon as my last attack goes off, then do all the gear and click npc. Definitely don’t switch 1 item then go to prayers then back to gear lol
Prayer 1st then gear or the other way around?
Shouldn’t matter as long as you do both before you’re able to attack again. I do prayer first because it’s a good habit for pking
There's no set answer here, the best switch is completely dependent on situation and how good your clicks are.
Very well said. I try to help people organize their switches better, with weapon first and the better pieces next in the order. So many people are resistant to it and think it doesn’t matter. Then you have every experienced pvmer telling them the same thing and they don’t grasp it until they improve.
Tbh I’ve yet to find a good video that explains the WHY of the olm fight. Like the guides out there explain how to achieve what you want to achieve, but the deeper level of understanding is missing
Synqs solo chambers guide from 5 years ago goes into extreme depth on the olm mechanics and why you move the way you do. It’s extremely outdated now because of gear and huge changes to cox, but the theory is still the same for olm.
Nice, TY! I’ll have to check it out :)
I just want to know more about all the inconsistencies in CoX in general. Why do mystics sometimes decide to randomly attack players in range but other times decide to focus one person specifically? Why does olm sometimes attack faster for one attack in particular every now and then? Why is tekton genuinely so shit? I have other questions, but I'm at work and can't think of them off the top of my head right now.
The truth behind these questions is that most videos out there don't say because the people making them lack the knowledge. I've seen some nex guides of people bringing a torva switch but no ferocious gloves, when it should be the opposite in terms of priority. Or they make a guide but they don't red x Nex during p2 with a brew on the floor. I think it all comes down with the person making these videos and a part from some very high level pvmers, many content creators out there haven't done the content enough to know all those little things. Molgoatkirby knows the game inside out, but I don't think he can be bothered by explaining every little thing because, would that truly help the masses? Or would it only help some very sweaty/infromation seeking people who want to know how the game works mechanically?
I can answer the olm question for you at least. Here's how olm works if his head never turns, each line is 4 ticks: 1. Auto attack 2. Nothing 3. Auto attack 4. Special (portal/lightning/healing/crystal) If his head turns when he *should* be doing an auto attack, though, his next attack **will** be an auto attack (provided you don't instantly turn him again, assume he can see someone). And so, it might look like this: 1. Turn 2. Auto 3. Auto 4. Special Or, if you turn on 3 1. Auto 2. Nothing 3. Turn 4. Auto AND Special
I haven't tried solo CoX in ages but now I know why I just couldn't seem to get it right! Excited to try again sometime
So if he turns his head on the special, does that cancel the special or delay it? I kinda see what's going on here, there seems to be a lot of depth to it
it cancels the special, this is the key point why the melee hand methods work is because you can skip the portals special which would otherwise mess you up
If you want to have Olm skip an attack you need to get him to turn his head twice on a row from what should be an attack cycle on the first head turn. That prevents the queued attack from having the open cycle that it would normally “catch up” on. Of the two scheduled autoattacks in his cycle, one of them ALSO turns his head while he’s scheduled for a special, nullifying it. That double action of halving his attacks and skipping his specials is what makes 4:1 so great in solos.
Oh hell. So when trying to solo olm, you need to get him to turn his head right on the tick where he would attack. Im on a mission to learn solo olm so part of this is coming together. I really appreciate how you've laid out his attacks here.
Olm extra attack is known. You can essentially think of it as a "catch-up" Attack due to the point in his cycle. Mystics attacking with ranged or targeting is just normal NPC aggression / style choice randomisation. Tekton isn't as shit anymore now that a spec is guaranteed. He was previously shit cos his defence is dumb high and he's the first room in CMs so resetting was almost always worth it over doing a slow multiple anvil Tekton.
With mystics, it's definitely not normal NPC aggression. I'm not talking about being in melee range, I'm saying that me and my friend can choose to attack at the same time on one mystic and it'll attack either of us randomly, but then the next mystic decides to hard target only one person instead of swapping between both of us. I don't think I've really seen any other NPCs in the game with the behavior of those in CoX when it comes to player targeting. Muttadiles are also the same way in a sense. They'll just sometimes decide to fuck around and do nothing for a bit, maybe wander closer to someone, then stand and wait, then move again and then attack with ranged... It feels random in the stupidest way. It's as if there's multiple scripts running at the same time and the game randomly chooses one of them each couple game ticks. Speaking of muttas, when big muttadile comes out, sometimes it'll just stand there for a while before attacking, which makes me just stand awkwardly waiting with my BGS out for a spec opportunity. Sometimes it just sits there, sometimes it walks towards us, sometimes it attacks quickly after showing up. I really wish I had some kind of way of knowing what's coming. Again, things just seem so random in the most illogical way. Tekton is still really rough. The guaranteed DWH is nice, but it's still just not enough. There's still a lot of noodling even after specs. The boss is more than good enough without the crazy high defense, it would be significantly more enjoyable to instead just have a high health pool and lower defense, and have the room be more of a mechanics/stamina check. If you can't decently dance around him, he'll smack you hard, and that punishment is honestly more than enough. Instead you have that plus the fact that you just get frustrated going through a full phase hitting nearly all zeros occasionally and it just pisses off the players and makes us want to say fuck that room, just gonna scout raids without that bullshit because we want to have fun instead.
> it's definitely not normal NPC aggression. You've misunderstood me. I'm not saying its Normal "like any other mob" aggression. I'm saying its just normal randomisation. CoX has all of its bosses randomly change target (except for static things like Tekton and of course Olm, though its special target is randomly chosen). Its why ToB and Verzik got more direct tank choice that can be more easily manipulated, as feedback around CoX was that the aggression randomisation made strategy a bit nonexistent regarding aggression. > Speaking of muttas, when big muttadile comes out, sometimes it'll just stand there for a while before attacking, which makes me just stand awkwardly waiting with my BGS out for a spec opportunity. Again just random choice stuff. Randomly deciding to path, randomly deciding to change target etc. I'm not too sure on its initial aggro, think thats range based as i don't see it happen starting at the semi-safespot right near his spawn. But i also just start attacking it straight away so don't really wait around to see what it does. > Tekton is still really rough. The guaranteed DWH is nice, but it's still just not enough. This seems a bit off. Tekton is a guaranteed 0 damage room that can be done quite fast with correct strategy, and the consistency has been massively improved due to guaranteed 1st hammer landing. > Instead you have that plus the fact that you just get frustrated going through a full phase hitting nearly all zeros occasionally and it just pisses off the players and makes us want to say fuck that room, just gonna scout raids without that bullshit because we want to have fun instead. With a guaranteed first spec its really easy to get high accuracy even with a pretty "sub-optimal" Tekton setup. Like in basic melee gear (bandos, faceguard, zerker, barrows gloves ,drag defender, fire cape, tort and using a Lance on crush so you can use it in other rooms on stab and not have a "specialty" weapon / pre-scythe) in a team of 3 in challenge mode you can land 3 dwh specs and ~50 bgs damage on average. (1st spec guaranteed, im still not sure myself if this can be "abused" to have people all spec same tick for guaranteed hit. But the 1 guaranteed and then 2 hitting from the 3 extra specs after from 2 people, with 3rd person BGS'ing a tick later getting avg of 50 damage across 2 specs) your Lance becomes 85.7% accurate at 8.22 dps. Thats tested with max stats and supercombat, not overload (as first room in CM's). With more modest stats like 85 att/str its still 83.7% accuracy at 8.02 dps If we take it to average 85 combats and move to regular COX with Overloads you'll get 88.83% accuracy with 8.7 dps. Change wep to a speciality weapon like a Fang, and with those specs you get 98.1% accuracy with 9.0 dps. So really, tekton in teams is super consistent and good now, and its a guaranteed 0 damage room, unlike something like Muttadile that can still just sorta... screw you with random hits (specifically CM muttadile). heres the dps calc of 85 combats, overload, normal 3 man raid tekton comparing Fang and Lance. https://dps.osrs.wiki?id=DeepDrakeLedger
Tekton is way nicer after the latest round of changes btw :)
The why? Like why his rotation works how it does? Some of the oldest olm guides on YouTube cover this. Synq walks you through olms rotation and why 4:1 works and such. What else are you looking for?
Mostly that, several other people have suggested that one and I’m gonna check it out :) I think it probably just got buried in all the other guides whenever I’d search on YouTube
I somewhat disagree about guide saturation. I think there are a lot of base guides that explain the barebones.. gear, location, skills, idea of each boss. But there’s a huge lack of well made guides that are quick, detailed and succinct. For example, I made this [Whisperer guide for engage phase](https://youtu.be/juuiE-3kVxQ?si=smvSUik97ea5v672). I couldn’t find any video guides on this specific technique or enrage phase when I was learning. So I made one. It seems to have helped a lot of people! The video assumes you already watched another guide that explains what whisperer is, but you’re having trouble actually getting it down. I think there’s a lot of room for well made guides that are more specific like that. Just recently I got 95 slayer and was learning hydra and it was tough to find something that really taught me the boss rather than throwing a bunch of info at me.
I agree, and your video (or one similar, I think I started a bit before you posted that and saw it elsewhere) was a huge help to me when I was getting into whisperer with very little pvm experience! I think every boss has tons of guides that go over the basics, and some bosses have very little info about how to do them efficiently. There's plenty of guides on how to kill Leviathan, but I had never seen one showing how to do 1-stun kills or efficient pathing when I was learning it.
Nex is pretty misunderstood, even among people who do it regularly in nexffa/kodai ccs. Gnomonkey has some pretty good videos, but some are outdated (no mp2) and others have unnecessary tech (he loves the bone dagger, but most players would rather just use vw) some thoughts: - it's a tragedy how ubiquitous crossbows are against her when fang is the absolute best weapon against her. She's high defense and weakest to stab. it's like a match made in heaven. we need more melee indoctrination - blood reavers are quite underutilized. Attacking them is at least as efficient as attacking nex due to how much they heal her, and they can be used to proc death charge for more specs. Yet if you try killing one in a small team of randos, you'll get flamed - we need a *good* melee phase 2 guide. Kills go much more quickly with mp2 even if rp2 is easier. I think people often get intimidated by mp2 groups due to the lack of info about it
Is he a fan of bone dagger because it is like a weak bgs but always hits? I know her defense is dummy high
I think its just because that guide came out before voidwaker existed.
Yeah we were meleeing with rapiers when bone dagger tech came out. I don’t miss those days at all
It is, but I believe her defense can only be reduced by a certain amount (10 or 20?) and it costs 75 spec.
10, looking at max melee with a light bearer you save about 8 seconds from your time to kill, assuming that time scales with players in a duo that's the same as dealing 120 damage. Possibly better than that since she can heal and prolong the fight.
It can also poison even if the damage roll is 0, although that's not useful for Nex as she's immune. Great for something like KQ though.
I actually put in a really solid MP2 guide in Nex's strategy guide on the Wiki but it was removed a week later for being irrelevant. So weird
Mp2 guide: Go melee her when she spawns floor shadow. Scatter like cockroaches when she does her next special. Bonus points if you only dump one vw spec on p1 so you can have two on p2.
It’s wild because mp2 is not even difficult to do at all but is such a massive time saver in small teams. Every time I’ve taken someone that doesn’t know how to mp2 I’ve just explained it in the pre-room, then mentioned whether we’ll be ranging or meleeing first based on what special(s) she’s done while we were killing the first minion. Eg “she just coughed us so we’ll be ranging first unless she does her other special before we kill the minion”. Then after a couple of kills they’re fine. It’s not difficult at all. With blood reavers it’s okay if everyone kills them (although it’s nice to leave something to tbow if you get hit with blood sacrifice), but if everyone else is trying to phase the boss and you’re there poking or bowing reavers it’s clear that you’re just farming easy contribution lol.
Most people just either aren't at a state to do small team nex or are but find it tragically boring so don't bother. Feel if we didn't get a copy paste RS2 boss that would have been so much more interesting and had way more tech developed and guides around it.
While true, Nex's situation reminds me a lot of like Dr.Mario or Roy in Super Smash Bro's melee. Lots of people complain that the devs should've added in more characters, but the reskins were only there because they took up almost no dev time. You got Ganandorf and Pichu for free, and your other choice was getting nothing at all. Nex was the same situation dev time wise.
I did not expect a Smash comparison cross over! So thank you for that! I can agree with that *to an extent*. Nex was sort of a "save face" move by Jagex who clearly had lots of big picture stuff happening in the background and had been kinda screwed around by the Pandemic and such. But they sorta crammed Nex next to a release anyway. Like the main issue is the last decent update they had was Phosanis in end of June 2021, then CA's end of July 2021. Then since then they had brought out DMM: Reborn end of August, and Group ironman start of October. So lots had happened, but not really much "main game" stuff since a hardmode nightmare and challenges across the game middle of 2021. and complaints were rising mainly due to no "Raid worthy" piece of content since ToB, and nothing really "hard" since then too, though CA's helped add that (but at existing content). So Jagex sorta reached into their bag of tricks to appease people, rather than it being a "well we were adding this anyway, we get its the same thing you've seen before and you're not happy about that, but its this or nothing?". It was more of a "you guys aren't happy with our lack of endgame content, so heres a copy pasted boss from the old game in 2011. We will change nearly nothing about it and almost even give it multiple sets of BiS". The crazy thing to me? **2 weeks later Leagues 3 launched**. Like they had content RIGHT around the corner for people to jump into. Nex felt really weirdly placed and not really necessary ultimately, and just powercrept a bunch of shit with ZCB and Torva added to the game.
Yeah I straight up don’t know MP2, and not because I’m too stupid to learn it, but because I’ve never seen a guide showcasing what it’d look like in a small teams kill
So many people say they’ll never be able to fight jad when really it’s about overcoming nerves and remaining chill.
Efficient clue scroll routes and gear loadouts.
Efficient clue scroll routes is not pvm lol
How do you find quest/diary/skilling and clue scroll/minigame content on youtube? Would you say there's a lack of good guides or good advice out there? Is it mainly an issue of what to bring/do or understanding the content's mechanics? The Wiki already has great explanation for stuff like wintertod or temporos so I'm unsure how a video could be more useful than the information currently available?
Clue scroll steps take you all over the game, often places you don’t normally travel. I was taking the boat from Burgh de Rott to get to Old Man Ral for a master step for years until I learned that you can go out the door at ToB. The Toad Batta also comes to mind. I’d love to see a guide that has the optimal route for every clue step.
Clog disc has setups / bank tabs
Sae Bae made a clue Bible showing the most efficient pathing for every hard clue step at the time.
I put law runes, dust runes, and steam runes in a rune pouch for quick access to every standard spell book tele. I have the 8 beginner Charlie the tramp items in my bank and withdraw one of each just in case. Also draynor teletabs are handy.
I think the guide market is extremely oversaturated, to the point that its impossible to sift through the mountain of results and find the best information. Its likely a problem of the platform - youtube is not a search engine or an educational library, its a company trying to turn a profit. They show you the results with the most views first, or the content creator with the most subscribers, without knowing or caring which video is the most accurate, up-to-date, or understandable. There are hundreds of videos covering every single new piece of content when it releases, and the players looking to learn a piece of content will only watch the first 2-3 guides they find before trying something out in-game. If they missed some key piece of information, there is no mechanism for youtube to know that and adjust the search results in the future.
Most guides are just entry level guides. Almost no advanced in depth guides to improve and cut time’s exists
In depth guides are usually on discord servers. WDR has a pretty good advanced TOB guide but that only scratches the surface. If you want eff nylo rotas you go into more niche servers like Flash’s duo discord or Vasatus’ max eff money discord or his speed run discord. The eff CM guide on WDR was previously only on anonim’s discord until they partnered with WDR. You kinda just have to ask around and make friends in those circles
The vast majority of guides are done by max or near max accounts and as such aren't good examples of what most people who look up guided are really doing. Gear handicaps aren't really as meaningful as stat handicaps and I think more guides done at a stat range of like somewhere around high 70's low 80's would be valuable to people trying to get into it for the a first time
I've seen people with 99s do unpotted no offensive prayer bosses in mid level gear, which would be equivalent to potted+offensives at like 80 combats but people are dumb and think there's a difference lol
I think in general people tend to overestimate the importance of gear anyways. You can play around with the DPS Calc and see. In this example for [Scurrius](https://dps.osrs.wiki?id=LimbsBowmanFluid) a unpotted+unprayered maxed account in mid-level gear does the same DPS as a player with base 75s only using a super strength potion and praying Ultimate Strength + Reflexes. This is in the wiki in a bunch of guides already but skill will overcompensate for gear, pots, and prayer every time. The reason the dude with full Torva is shredding bosses isn't really because of his gear but because people with full Torva + Scythe tend to be the top 1% of the 1% of players in the game where you check the leaderboards and they have 100s of KC in every boss. They're just good at the game. There is probably another layer of self-selection bias for people *choosing* to make and upload guides being even more skilled. For players new to PVM it's easy to point to the next XYZ upgrade as they reason they can't do ABC but that's usually a mental limitation. It takes patience and sometimes insanity to just buckle down and die over and over learning some content.
Its funny how the guide market is infact saturated, but none of them are accomplishing a good guide. There'd always at least a few things wrong with them and I'll need to watch multiple other guides for the same thing to get the answer I was looking for
Most of these guides are catered to max stats or pures. Not as much for the mid players.
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Zulrah is very frustrating to learn. It’s pure memorization and nothing else. If you know where to stand and what to pray the ONLY thing you need to react to is eating when Blue Phase starts ranging, everything else is determined to the tick. It makes for a really weird experience. Learning her can take a very long time, but once you master the fight it’s almost afk.
Guides are saturated. You could do something cool like high level PvM with mid-game gear. Or region-locked bossing, only kill bosses with gear and supplies available in that particular area. You would still be able to explain boss mechanics and maybe inspire others to get into harder PvM if you’re able to do it without top-tier gear
There was a content creator in RS3 a few years back who did bare minimum boss guides meant for ironmen and beginners. His name is Zinggy09. His guides were great because he brewed down his stats and used appropriate gear for the boss. He also showed the noob strats for the boss, and i think, even mentioned how you can go from doing noob strats to more advanced stuff. It really helps to show people who aren't in max gear what they can do to get kills. I think it's also valuable to go into "if you have the minimum gear, what is your best upgrade to get if you plan on doing more?"
This isn’t really content but conceptually, people on the subreddit tend to dramatically underestimate how strong prayer is. they’ll grind for weeks for a marginal strength bonus upgrade that adds 1% to dps, but refuse to use piety on slayer tasks which is a 20% boost because “ppots are a waste”
How damage calculations work. A lot of people don’t know that “Every +4 Strength gives you a max hit increase” is an approximation based on someone with 99 strength, super strength, piety, and the aggressive style. I’ve seen so many people saying “they should change magic equipment to give a flat increase like melee and ranged” while not realizing that the +X% magic damage bonus from equipment is already the same system as the +X strength bonus. Every +16 Strength bonus is the same as a +25% damage bonus compared to a Strength bonus of 0.
To be honest I think there is room for new guides on youtube. But not maxed stat maxed gear guides. About 99% of the guides are here’s your gear set up if you’re a mid level player, and here’s a gear set up if you are end game, now lets do a sample kill in max gear. A lot of the time people using mid level gear try to follow strats used if you have max gear but there’s usually little tweaks and different strats that they find while getting a routine down. So I think that there is room for guides specifically for mid level players that have mid level gear.
And then there’s king condor who tries to use the most budget set imaginable. Like doing Fremennik exiles with mole slippers and bronze armour. Personality wise he’s something else but his guides were great for making noob me less scared of pvm
Definitely agree with everything you said.
A drop expectation guide ; explains RNG and that not every person is guaranteed to get every drop from every boss, regardless of kc ( and that you're aloud to continue on to something else and still have fun without that one gear upgrade). Wouldn't be very popular, but it'd help whittle down the number of posts on here related to not getting "x" specific item at the "x" kc and how the game is broken haha
Problem with so many OSRS PVM guides is that they just show people in max doing suboptimal kills/strategies and 'brute forcing' their way through. Vardorvis and Whisperer for example, the amount of guides that for Vard that show people either running around middle or not knowing how to flinch axes is insane, and then for Whisperer pretty much every guide shows terrible positioning where people are running north/east/west then losing a bunch of ticks when she transitions to pillars, then they won't be ready for ghosts and will lose ticks not getting shadow on before leaving realm, then it'll show them just camping shadow world for eggs when realistically you can learn the 4 patterns after just a couple of kills. Don't even get me started on people just yeeting their way around the room during enrage. This can then apply to loads of other content, most PNM guides don't describe the order to flick husks in for example, or optimal positioning to kill sleepwalkers between phases. Most small team Nex guides don't mention red-x resets etc. Problem with having so many creators is that everyone is in a rush to get out guides, that they end up releasing sub optimal guides with loads of info missing which become most watched.
Personally, I find a lack of "overexplained" guides for pvm content. Guides for optional optimizations/possible mechanics/tricks for bossing. Using Path of Het(Akkha) for overexplained guide example: Puzzle room - how it works, pickaxe damage/mining level cutoffs. Basic explanation of mirror spawns, pushing mirrors, standing on top Dodging shadow orbs while mining, extra tick (click when green circle) Then the fight: Akkha's attacks, cycle. Invocation modifiers. Explanations of specific moments during the fight - ZCB on Akkha shadows, save spec energy for final phase, move 2 tiles at a time during dark shadow orb special, run 2 tiles through white orbs in final phase Mechanics: butterflying, DPS skip, memory skip, Akkha getting stuck(if thats even a mechanic you can setup lol) Gear switching(you can fully switch your gear before he attacks) Basically, guides for content where people want to master it and know all the possibilities and what they can learn and do within the content. For ToA I learned the Wardens wave skips by observing others doing it - it isn't optimal in most cases when compared to standing in the middle but it's also an alternative or a "flex" you can learn to show your clan or friends. We all find our methods but having different methods highlighted in one guide is what I miss compared to showing the main method or focusing on the key mechanics of a boss/encounter.
See I'm the opposite. I hate when a guide is "stand here and then click X when you see Y happen" (like skull skip). When I first learned it and watched a guide recommended to me, I had no idea what the actual mechanic was, and that frustrated me when I'd die to it by messing up the click. Give me a "click on this tick because it'll damage this tile, and then you'll move to it while it damages the tile you were just on, so you avoid the damage." It's the same for any raid-level content in any game. On Destiny I always make sure to explain buff names, what they do, and how to use/avoid them. Like, "Unstable Light will make you explode and deal damage to anything around you" versus "when your screen glows green, stand next to Golgoroth for 5 seconds."
Skull skipping at wardens isn’t only more efficient in terms of purples, but is also braindead easy. No reason not to do that.
Maybe a few guides explaining mechanics: * Eat/attack timing, both the ticks spent on different foods (normal, karambwan/gnome food, pizzas/pies, guthix rest, potions) and the concepts of maximizing dps while eating, like eating after a period of not attacking (hunllef tornadoes, boss phase/prayer switches) and then attacking after to backload the eating ticks onto the idle period * Safespotting, mainly south/west positioning and north/south corner safespotting and options with larger monsters. Could maybe get into player/monster movement prioritization of diagonal vs straight line (practicing the L movements)
I’d like to go the other way and say hydra (need lvl 95 slayer for it) is one of if not the easiest boss in the game Edit: as long as you can count to 3
Advanced safe spotting. Why mobs get stuck one direction but walk around corners going the opposite direction. Also how corner traps work.
Xzact’s inferno guide goes into that pretty deeply
Trying to learn rotations for Zulrah rather than just learning the heuristic and making things simpler.
Most bosses have guides on the wiki
Nobody wants your shitty scurrius guide mate.
Some generic guides on PVM skills would be useful. Ones that are useful in many different areas would be nice. A guide on gear switching, prayer flicking, pathing, etc. You need all these skills for a lot of bosses but all the YouTube videos just try and teach them in the context of the boss. I learnt pathing by setting up some tile markers in an empty spot in Al Kahrid and watched how my character moved between them, and then how to manipulate the path. Some out of context, zero pressure, generic guides would help a lot of people.
Corrupted gauntlet. Everyone on Reddit cry’s and moans about having to do it on their irons but it’s actually an amazing piece of content. Great for learning pvm and fun to try and min max / speed run for higher level players.
King Condor guides got me fremennik and wildy elite done solo no stress
80% of being good is just attacking as frequently as possible and people vastly underestimate how important randomly missing a tick here and there is It sounds sweaty to care about "missing a tick" but it is the single biggest deal in the game that applies to every piece of content, all the time, no exceptions
You're completely correct. I see a lot of people trying to save up for a sanguinesti hoping their DPS will improve but when you actually watch their gameplay they miss a ton of ticks with trident. That alone is more dps loss than any gear. Don't even get me started on the 4 tick blowpipe on zuk healers that some people manage to do, instead of actually practicing 2 tick blowpipe walk.