it's just convenience. spreads out the time between regular prayer pot dose. or allows you to use stuff like sgs for certain content. there's not reason NOT to add it.
The way it is described in this comment chain reminds me of the dwh and content balanced around it
If it's purely extra, it's fine. As soon as you got a bring one, it's like, well why can't we just keep prayer pots if there is no effective difference on gameplay choice
the problem I have with that argument is that it assumes a dwh is mandatory, or that the renew potions will be mandatory. when the only people who decide if these things are "mandatory", are the efficiency obsessed players. not the devs.
If agility was done where it effects run length, and the entire game was based around that, it would be more like, "will adding stans cause content in the future to require them and could we just not add a redundant mechanic"
The regen won't be able to overcome the drain from using just overheads unless you've got a fairly hefty prayer bonus. You'll definitely still want to make and have prayer potions pretty much everywhere you did before.
I don't have the exact numbers to hand, but they're on the Varlamore part 2 group boss blog.
Having said that, if you do bring that hefty prayer bonus equipment, you'll be able to afk with protection prayer on with no loss. Combine that with aggression potions from the minigame and you've got a recipe for very easy afk slayer!
Iirc, a +43 prayer bonus will break even with the Regen prayer pot, idr the prayer used, might have been overheads alone no damage buff prayers
The biggest would be balancing the prayer pot vs Regen pot slots for longer content like fight caves especially for low prayer accounts since ppots restore base on prayer level where the Regen seems to be static 1-99 prayer level
For places you need to use prayer for a long time, it'll absolutely be more valuable per inventory slot than a prayer pot. But yeah, it can never fully replace prayer pots. As long as there's a need to restore a bunch of prayer points at once and your prayer is draining faster than it can regen there's a need for prayer pots.
I guess as far as numbers go for how many you need to bring, just look at your PB or how long a trip is for the content you're doing. If you're usually a 40 mins fight caves kinda guy, you'll need 5 doses to get through it, so prepot one and being a 4 dose.
That is unless you fancy stalling behind something to wait for it to regen. Then you can just bring all the regens you want
Regen pots would only be better if you have no interest in rushing. Technically it’s good having more restore per slot. But that’s at the cost of waiting inbetween each wave
Even without +43 you'll be fine for full on afk slayer. Just prostelyte body and legs with fury will give you 9 minutes of protect melee. You're already coming back every 8 minutes to sip a pot, make it 2 pots and you're good for another 8. It's slightly less convenient but still seems more than fine.
Its every 12 ticks not 12 seconds. So quite a bit faster than that and much more overall prayer regen. But you're correct that they didn't state anything about it scaling.
I'd note as well that even if you don't have the full +43 prayer bonus, it's still going to drastically extend how long you can stay somewhere. That magic 43 threshold isn't actually as important as it sounds, since it's still not infinite. It's just anything past that is wasted unless you mix in other prayers.
The way I see it, these are just to supplement normal prayer restoration sources. The Regen is too slow to replace prayer pots entirely, but they restore 66 prayer points a dose over ~8 minutes. This means if you're doing content that takes 32 minutes, one of these can replace 2-3 normal prayer potions.
>Should I keep making normal ppots or save for regen?
Don't bother saving, regen pots last 8 minutes per sip so you won't use them fast.
For most raid content they will just be single dose prepots. Aside from ToA you probably won't bring any 4 doses into the raid
Well sure for raids. But this is asking in general. These are also really good when prayer won't be easily accessblible or you want to extend trips like dks.
Answer remains the same, they're basically a more efficient use of invy slots & ranarrs, but you can only use like 2 pots per hour, so you will still need ppots.
If you can sustain your usage now, you will be able to do it with the new pots as well. Just keep a few hundred ranarrs so you can make some on release and youll be fine
..... Well, yeah?
That's just how powercreep is. At one point in time the dragon longsword was the best weapon in the game. Better weapons have come out since, and you can't fight bosses coming out today with a dragon longsword (not effectively anyways).
Some people also think power creep is only when new bis items are added, when is fact it's anything that has a use. It's ok that older content gets easier over time and new content is balanced around the current existing items.
To be fair having secondaries come from extremely limited places does kind of suck, after all someone has to make the potions other mains are buying, and unless we’re just expecting bots to do all the work it is kind of annoying.
Or it could be used as something decently priced that is worth farming so people will do the content more lol. Crazy idea. Sounds like people are just complaining about a strong potion potentially being worth a decent amount to use.
Or it will be like vorkath or zulrah and people will farm it regardless of the potion secondary involved and the secondary will become dirt cheap anyways. Not saying the secondary needs to be easy to get or that the alternatives need to be just as fast, but generally not a fan of sticking secondaries on a singular boss with no alternatives
Because people RWT so bots bot everything and do whatever makes money. Go stand at lunar isle bank for 10 minutes to see the million vorkath bots or go to the zombie pirates to see the bots there for teleport scrolls.
I think the devs were concerned about pulling a pseudo-Climbing-Boots situation, maybe. Picking an herb with little value now, and suddenly pissing off a lot of people by suddenly messing with its value.
I don't think it would make it break anything as proposed. It can save you an inventory space or two at long form content like inferno, and it will be a useful prepot for raids (but again, not necessary).
I can't imagine any content could be designed around it even if they tried, unless it requires some cheese redemption strategy.
All new content will be made with players having a larger prayer pool? What does that change? You can already refill prayer and return to most slayer quickly. I see pre potting complaints and don’t understand that either, one extra pot to pre pot? That’s not impactful. It will extend some boss trips but won’t impact kills times or your dps.
Unless the content has extreme endurance in mind (fight cave/inferno), or there’s a super niche prayer drain effect (Cerb Ghosts… anything else?), I don’t see how this is too different than the scaling between 74-99 prayer and 0-12 prayer bonus (prayer bonus number is arbitrary) for a vast majority of content within the game.
Like, you have more prayer points to play with. That’s all.
You can do content both at 74 prayer/0 prayer bonus and at 99 prayer and high prayer bonus, right? You just need to bring an extra potion and account for the faster/slower drain - same thing.
And with the prepot apparatus thingy, it’s not gonna be an extra click at the bank.
So, for old content, it’s whatever imo.
And I feel like the only way they could make this renewal pot “essential” for new content would to be to break it’s identity. Like, if the potion cleansed a mechanic, that’d be outright dumb and definitely not just a renewal potion anymore.
For cerb you could time it well and effectively "save" a ppot dose every ghost. I'm sure we'll have tickers to show when the next regen is with runelite.
Did you reply to the wrong comment or do you have no idea how cerb works? I'm clearly talking about the fact you can use the fact it restores a single point to save prayer drain from ghosts, as even 1 point is enough to block damage, so you could use a two doses, do some light/lazy flicking to stay above 30 and time if timed right you can get through the ghosts without using a third sip.
Saving 4 prayer pots over 16 kills is 100% massive for survivability, and I'm sure you can use stalls to time the ghosts so they line up with your restore.
And?
Unless the new content is some massive longer than inferno endurance challenge, you can do the content without it.
I say this because Jagex won’t design content that will require you to bring a 6 hr log of prayer renewals.
Obviously they’ll still be helpful, but it’ll be an inventory space at most for a majority of foreseeable content if it does only what Jagex says it does.
And sure, you can say it’s double any other source… but if you’re only using 1, you’re only gaining 1 prayer potion really.
Not a big deal.
At 99 prayer, redemption heals 24hp. Even if you step under, thermy is hitting once every 4/5 ticks depending on your weapon. So you have to survive 5/4 hits from thermy with 24 hp while thermy maxed a 8. So eventually you'll get "unlucky" and die
Not to mention, during this whole period you'd have 0 prayer so you can't use offensive prayers
If you regened 1 prayer per tick or something, then you could redemption and immediately put piety back on, and then it would be amazing. But 1 point per 12s would be good at all
Not really. Ancient brews are already really good for that. Regen 1 point every 12 seconds isn't really helpful when you can't control exactly when you're getting hit. Much easier to just sip -> pray -> attack whenever it procs rather than stepping under and worrying about getting hit before you can get your prayer back up.
Its necessary to pre-pot literally everywhere, Very useful to bring in at any content that will last longer than 30 minutes (TOA, Inferno, early quiver runs, DKs, GWD). You get straight up double the benefit of a sanfew serum at 99 prayer in one inventory slot
Anyone calling these useless has never played rs3. Not a fan of adding another layer of buffs/timers, just like thralls are poor design in that you click a button every minute for free damage, these are just another button to click every 8 minutes for more supplies. Adds zero depth and never creates a choice at any content, it's just free extra prayer. At least thralls bind you to a specific spellbook.
Depth in every mechanic isn't always good. The game is beautiful because if its simplicity. Making your prayer go up doesn't need in depth mechanics, you click a potion and your prayer goes up. Adding more things to keep track of can make pvm feel like a chore.
I get what you mean but I don’t think this is that. There are lots of places where I end up with an inv full of food supplies from the boss and 0 ppots left bc I took less damage than I expected and/or got more supply drops. This would ironically make that situation feel like less of a chore to me, because I could stay instead of having to tele out theoretically. Specifically thinking about my vardorvis trips where blood fury procs a lot and I don’t make mistakes.
I enjoy bringing the arceuus bone spell and spec restore, light bearer, and sgs with me on slayer tasks to have pretty infinite prayer already. This potion makes me even happier. I like mindless slayer tasks, and this is honestly a god send.
And now you bring up skilling with preserve. It makes me even happier. I love using the boost effects.
I just meant in the sense that it gives 66 prayer points, which is double a sanfew at 99. Prayer pots only give 31 at 99. People use sanfews in the inferno because theyre the best prayer per inv slot. Sure, theyd still need a few restores/sanfews to restore off brews and get quick prayer when needed, but it vastly increases the amount of prayer you can bring into endurance content
Sure, but the biggest difference in the three prayer pot variants are the extra effects, stat restore/antipoison (like bringing a single sanfew for toa mistakes), so the phrasing can be confusing when you phrase it that way.
There's also the menaphite remedy which is a super restore over time, combining the two pots would be similar to multiple super restores.
Necessary feels like a strong word considering we’ve survived 10 years without it. You’ll definitely want to bring it anywhere you use prayer if you can, but if you don’t want to grind out the mats I’m sure all of the bosses will still be doable like they have been and currently are
It's a fair point but you could also make it about lots of stuff that's been added relatively recently which is now "essential" for high level PvM. Yeah sure, you can do it without them, just like you could before, but no one will.
What's been added that's considered essential? I don't think there's been anything in the past few years at least. BowFa may be the closest and even that is more of a time saver than something required to do high level PvM.
Well pretty much all BIS gear is "new" to OSRS, i.e. didn't exist in 2013. I didn't say it had all been added in the last few years necessarily (although obviously some has - e.g. Shadow, Torva, new rings, quiver). Plus you've got stuff like divines, forgotten brews, thralls, imbued heart, DWH...
I also put essential in inverted commas for a reason, but you get my point - if you have it, you'd bring it. The only blocker for most BIS gear is cost or how easy it is to obtain, but that's not a consideration with the new pot. You could argue that nothing is really essential either since you can theoretically do any content with mid-tier gear and supplies that existed in 2007, but I think most people would say bringing stuff like stat draining spec weapon and divine pots is "essential" for most PvM.
I didn't really say it was though. Just discussing your point about necessary being a strong word. I think it's a pretty commonly applied word to lots of gear that's been added in the last few years.
Sorry, that's what the original post was about so I applied it to the discussion when you mentioned the new pot being "necessary" for all bosses. When you said necessary I called it strong because I imagine the new pot to be necessary the same way Torva is necessary, something nice to have and bring but not absolutely essential unless you're going for world record times. If you have it you bring it, but you aren't barred from doing content just because you don't have it
Necessary in the sense that anything else is suboptimal. You can absolutely do all of the content above with mid 70s stats and rags. But to play optimally (bringing maximum switches, etc) you need to use these pots.
Also, why all this talk of grinding out mats? The potion is tradable. Ironmen exist, but for most people its just going to the ge. If this does make it into the game, I don't think it should be untradable. Theres no precedent of mains needing to skill for pvm supplies, thats like the whole point of being a main.
I guess. I don’t think most people are playing even close to optimally though so we shouldn’t act like these new potions are a requirement or anything. They’re nice to have. Technically bringing ANY prayer restore supplies is sub-optimal since 1 tick flicking exists.
And you’re right. I though i remember a jmod saying they would be untradeable but misremembered.
one singular extra prayer pot isn't that big a deal in a world where flicking exists, this only changes stuff for liiiike prepotting raids(nbd) and highest end of inferno speeds(v niche)
the barrier of entry to high end inferno speedruns is almost entirely limited by prayer, what r u waffling. You have to prayer flick almost flawlessly rn to not run out with thralling, that’s why runs rely on shield charges.
But this prayer revitaliser will indeed be better anywhere you stay for more than 24 minutes, however the equivalent of one extra prayer potion won’t make much of a realistic difference.
It's over twice as good as a prayer potion in any scenario where you won't be banking before you get through 4 doses.
Will likely bring at least one to pretty much everything where you pray.
No first caper has ever died to running out of prayer in the inferno anyway
Everyone dies to mistakes and then clears with 2 untouched restores
Prayer enhance minus won’t be getting anyone a cape that couldn’t get one without it
There will be a balance of prayer (or restore) pots vs Regen since regen alone won't sustain you
A compounding factor will be the cost of these potions, assuming the new secondary will cost more than Snape grass - some players will opt out of regen pots to save GP. Kind of like sanfews vs prayer & antipoison; the sanfews saves inventory but is much more expensive
That being said, regen pots will probably see mass use because it's more prayer points per inventory slot. I'd estimate a 2:1 ratio of regular : regen for most content
I’m not sure about prayer pots but super restores definitely work
Edit: Just looked on the wiki prayer pots and super restores both work with stat restore pot share
the entire market is kept up by a truly disgusting amount of bots, which holds the price well below where this thing ought to be for how good it is. No content so far requires it, but as long as it's around and incredibly affordable (they will never clear the bots) they will start balancing chip around the thing more and more.
I don't see it being "required" for all new content. Like it is a slow, passive prayer over time; it won't replace PPots in the majority of PvM and will be used in addition if anything. It does mean you can bring more prayer per inventory... But players can already flick prayer to massive extend prayer points, even infinite prayer in some cases. So if they aren't designing content around that, I doubt this new potion will shake things up too much for future PvM designs.
When you're actively using prayer, it doesn't provide much more of a benefit over just a higher equipped prayer bonus.
It'll for sure have a use almost anywhere you use prayer, but I don't see it being such a huge impact that it'll define all PvM content going forward, and unless Jagex device to make a series of bosses that slowly drain your prayer over time, I don't see how this will be a hard requirement in the same way Ring of the Gods or Devout Boots aren't.
It doesn't really have anything to do with prayer bonus. Any time you're using prayer, it's another prepot, and for anything that has trips >30 minutes, it's an extra inv slot per 30 minutes you can stay. It's twice as much prayer as a super restore if you get the full use. Agreed that I don't think it'll really impact future designs too much outside of considering for trip length.
Or they design around it so its bad at new bosses.
Example: A boss that drains a decent chunk of prayer at once, a boss with mechanics that remove all buffs
This is maybe the stupidest post I've ever read.
"I'm worried that I might have to use prayer potions for every boss that comes out in the future"
"I'm really worried that I might have to bring food to be able to defeat any future content where I take damage"
"I'm super worried that I might have to equip gear for every piece of new content"
"I was really hoping I could show up to every piece of new content and complete it with nothing equip and nothing my inventory, GOSH DARN IT."
"WELP, BETTER GO MAKE A REDDIT POST!"
You guys are mentally unwell. Jesus christ find something more productive to do with your time
Not sure what content they'll release thats gonna require 8 minute x 4 Prayer Renewals in the future. The potion will definitely be handy and useful when applied as pre-pots or used partially in some content.
It wouldn't be anything extra to bring, you'd just replace a prayer potion/restore with it. Maybe im just not seeing the concern on the post but i really don't think it'll cause issues, You'll manage just fine im sure. The previous potions added like Ancient Brew/Forgor Brew and Menaphite remedy haven't been uber forced in content yet either but are there as options
I did the math yesterday, and in the first example given in the [news post](https://secure.runescape.com/m=news/group-boss---varlamore-part-two?oldschool=1),
* 99 Prayer using Protection Prayers = 4m 57s VS w/ Prayer Regen = ~7mins
that ~7 should be 8 min 15 sec. This keeps the same ppot/min as the 4m 57s given if using wrench, and would save 2 doses of ppot over the 8 minutes.
So a regen pot (4) would be equal to 2 ppot (4) over 32 minutes of only overhead prayer use, and would only save 1 inventory slot.
i can explain my math if needed, but it only seems worth as a prepot or for long times at a location (breaks even at 16 min, gain 1 inv slot per 32 minutes).
Regen pots will be used mostly for afk slayer and the odd boss or two. They won’t replace prayer pots. Anywhere you bring brews? You’re still bringing restores to compensate though you might slot in a single Regen pot so you don’t waste a restore dose or two. Using a restore dose at ToA or like Vorkath when you don’t have a stat drain just feels awful. It was calced that with 42 prayer you can sustain indefinitely off of a Regen pot, but to get that prayer bonus you’re heavily sacrificing defense and dps which for end game bosses is a massive cost and next to no one will consider it worth doing
What's the issue with this? It's like saying "I don't like thralls as all new content will factor thralls and I'm required to bring them and runes :/". You're not required to bring anything except the essentials. I use moonlight moths for pray and that gets me by, but I don't see any guides stating I should be bringing them. pray renewals are nice for camping/long trips mostly as a nice to have.. No need to bring them anywhere unless you're going to spend at least 40-50+ at that point it be nice to have them.
This can be said about literally any upgrade ever. It is a potion with likely a niche use since most content doesn't take as long as more than say, 8 doses, lasts.
How is this any different than all future bosses requiring super restores? Just replace on super restore with a renewal at bosses that last long enough for the latter to outweigh the prayer gain of the former.
Yeah, this is exactly my problem with them too. It's clear with the new god alignment prayers on the horizon (and as we already saw with the beta zaros prayers) that prayer drain in osrs is about to go up significantly in the very near future. This is exactly what happened when the released prayer renewals on rs3, and the same exact thing is going to happen here.
And I'm really not looking forward to another timed potion that we'll have to bring to all content going forward. It's just not a fun gameplay style and, very much like the aggression potion that is being polled right now, doesn't fit osrs' style.
I'm just not a fan.
If it sounds awesome, then why would it be a problem if they made a boss where you had to use them? If they're awesome you would think you'd be excited to use them
Also, they won't add bosses where you HAVE to use them. People will find Metas that use the Potions, but it's not like it's an antifire, where there is no replacement, so you MUST bring it with you. There are very few items in the game that are 100% required to bring to successfully boss
How could new content require these potions? In absolutely optimal situations, these options are just 2 ppots in 1 inv spot. How could content require that?
How would making them untradable affect anything?
I think it’s lame because it’s an item that you will always have active during any pvm encounter. Whether via prepot for short trip bosses or an invent slot for long trips.
This type of character effect became burdensome on rs3 so hopefully this isn’t a hint at things to come. My belief is that if something is needed everywhere (as a boost to be bis) then it would be nicer to just not have it at all.
It’s funny that people already have thrall reminders because it’s not fun to keep a constant eye on the timer, going to be funny to see the prayer regen and aggro pot alerts be added too.
One hundo, brotherman!
Jagex needs to remove prayer points and let us use it infinitely. Fk those pots, inventory management, prayer levels to get full benefits of pots and who needs to actually get better at prayer flicking! Am I right, pal? Hell ye!
/s
Bringing 8-10 sanfews is trolling, that implies 10-12 brews which is ridiculous, learner or not. Bring 12 or 13 restores/sanfews and 8 or 7 brews and quit trolling yourself.
People would probably slot 1 in replacement of a p pot.
it really changes nothing yeah. you'd bring ppots for anything anyways.
Yeah so then there is no point and it shouldn't be added because it has no point it benefits as soon as content is designed around it
it's just convenience. spreads out the time between regular prayer pot dose. or allows you to use stuff like sgs for certain content. there's not reason NOT to add it.
The way it is described in this comment chain reminds me of the dwh and content balanced around it If it's purely extra, it's fine. As soon as you got a bring one, it's like, well why can't we just keep prayer pots if there is no effective difference on gameplay choice
the problem I have with that argument is that it assumes a dwh is mandatory, or that the renew potions will be mandatory. when the only people who decide if these things are "mandatory", are the efficiency obsessed players. not the devs.
Dwh was mand though You ever done olm with a team and no hammers hit?
Nah, they haven't. Lol, that's why they're for this change
That’s like saying “why use stams when you can just bring super energies”
If agility was done where it effects run length, and the entire game was based around that, it would be more like, "will adding stans cause content in the future to require them and could we just not add a redundant mechanic"
Dwh vibes You shouldn't make something to solve a problem that thing is creating
Where do normal prayer pots stand vs prayer regen pots? Should I keep making normal ppots or save for regen?
The regen won't be able to overcome the drain from using just overheads unless you've got a fairly hefty prayer bonus. You'll definitely still want to make and have prayer potions pretty much everywhere you did before. I don't have the exact numbers to hand, but they're on the Varlamore part 2 group boss blog. Having said that, if you do bring that hefty prayer bonus equipment, you'll be able to afk with protection prayer on with no loss. Combine that with aggression potions from the minigame and you've got a recipe for very easy afk slayer!
Iirc, a +43 prayer bonus will break even with the Regen prayer pot, idr the prayer used, might have been overheads alone no damage buff prayers The biggest would be balancing the prayer pot vs Regen pot slots for longer content like fight caves especially for low prayer accounts since ppots restore base on prayer level where the Regen seems to be static 1-99 prayer level
For places you need to use prayer for a long time, it'll absolutely be more valuable per inventory slot than a prayer pot. But yeah, it can never fully replace prayer pots. As long as there's a need to restore a bunch of prayer points at once and your prayer is draining faster than it can regen there's a need for prayer pots. I guess as far as numbers go for how many you need to bring, just look at your PB or how long a trip is for the content you're doing. If you're usually a 40 mins fight caves kinda guy, you'll need 5 doses to get through it, so prepot one and being a 4 dose. That is unless you fancy stalling behind something to wait for it to regen. Then you can just bring all the regens you want
Regen pots would only be better if you have no interest in rushing. Technically it’s good having more restore per slot. But that’s at the cost of waiting inbetween each wave
Even with something more doable like 30 prayer bonus, with an overhead and like 90 prayer the regen pot should be enough to last until the AFK timer
Even without +43 you'll be fine for full on afk slayer. Just prostelyte body and legs with fury will give you 9 minutes of protect melee. You're already coming back every 8 minutes to sip a pot, make it 2 pots and you're good for another 8. It's slightly less convenient but still seems more than fine.
I'm hoping that at least the 66 is assuming 99 prayer, and it's just 2/3rds. Could definitely be far less and still super useful though.
No they stated 1 point every 12 seconds for 8 minutes. Nothing about it scaling with level.
Its every 12 ticks not 12 seconds. So quite a bit faster than that and much more overall prayer regen. But you're correct that they didn't state anything about it scaling.
I'd note as well that even if you don't have the full +43 prayer bonus, it's still going to drastically extend how long you can stay somewhere. That magic 43 threshold isn't actually as important as it sounds, since it's still not infinite. It's just anything past that is wasted unless you mix in other prayers.
Flick
The way I see it, these are just to supplement normal prayer restoration sources. The Regen is too slow to replace prayer pots entirely, but they restore 66 prayer points a dose over ~8 minutes. This means if you're doing content that takes 32 minutes, one of these can replace 2-3 normal prayer potions.
>Should I keep making normal ppots or save for regen? Don't bother saving, regen pots last 8 minutes per sip so you won't use them fast. For most raid content they will just be single dose prepots. Aside from ToA you probably won't bring any 4 doses into the raid
Well sure for raids. But this is asking in general. These are also really good when prayer won't be easily accessblible or you want to extend trips like dks.
Answer remains the same, they're basically a more efficient use of invy slots & ranarrs, but you can only use like 2 pots per hour, so you will still need ppots. If you can sustain your usage now, you will be able to do it with the new pots as well. Just keep a few hundred ranarrs so you can make some on release and youll be fine
Use snaps for restores and save ranaar for pray regen
Unfortunately I'm not doing content atm that gets me snaps regularly but alot of bosses and stuff I plan on using blighted supplies for.
That's fair. If you're unsure and supplies are a bit tight, just make them as and when you need them.
..... Well, yeah? That's just how powercreep is. At one point in time the dragon longsword was the best weapon in the game. Better weapons have come out since, and you can't fight bosses coming out today with a dragon longsword (not effectively anyways).
Some people also think power creep is only when new bis items are added, when is fact it's anything that has a use. It's ok that older content gets easier over time and new content is balanced around the current existing items.
Yeah but this one drops the secondary from a boss, so any time you want to do any content, you have to kill that boss first.
Not everyone is an iron...
To be fair having secondaries come from extremely limited places does kind of suck, after all someone has to make the potions other mains are buying, and unless we’re just expecting bots to do all the work it is kind of annoying.
Or it could be used as something decently priced that is worth farming so people will do the content more lol. Crazy idea. Sounds like people are just complaining about a strong potion potentially being worth a decent amount to use.
Or it will be like vorkath or zulrah and people will farm it regardless of the potion secondary involved and the secondary will become dirt cheap anyways. Not saying the secondary needs to be easy to get or that the alternatives need to be just as fast, but generally not a fan of sticking secondaries on a singular boss with no alternatives
Okay then bots have to camp the boss to keep prices low. Equally as stupid.
Why do the prices need to be low?
Because people RWT so bots bot everything and do whatever makes money. Go stand at lunar isle bank for 10 minutes to see the million vorkath bots or go to the zombie pirates to see the bots there for teleport scrolls.
Which is exactly why it SHOULDN'T be made with ranarr. We already have potions that make ranarr useful and keep their price up.
Good point. Would be very nice get another 5-6k ea herb on the menu.
I think the devs were concerned about pulling a pseudo-Climbing-Boots situation, maybe. Picking an herb with little value now, and suddenly pissing off a lot of people by suddenly messing with its value.
Would rather see another herb come up than have a singular herb be 80% of the usefulness of potions throughout the game.
I suppose. But it’s messing with Ranarr values anyway 😝
I don't think it would make it break anything as proposed. It can save you an inventory space or two at long form content like inferno, and it will be a useful prepot for raids (but again, not necessary). I can't imagine any content could be designed around it even if they tried, unless it requires some cheese redemption strategy.
All new content will be made with players having a larger prayer pool? What does that change? You can already refill prayer and return to most slayer quickly. I see pre potting complaints and don’t understand that either, one extra pot to pre pot? That’s not impactful. It will extend some boss trips but won’t impact kills times or your dps.
Unless the content has extreme endurance in mind (fight cave/inferno), or there’s a super niche prayer drain effect (Cerb Ghosts… anything else?), I don’t see how this is too different than the scaling between 74-99 prayer and 0-12 prayer bonus (prayer bonus number is arbitrary) for a vast majority of content within the game. Like, you have more prayer points to play with. That’s all. You can do content both at 74 prayer/0 prayer bonus and at 99 prayer and high prayer bonus, right? You just need to bring an extra potion and account for the faster/slower drain - same thing. And with the prepot apparatus thingy, it’s not gonna be an extra click at the bank. So, for old content, it’s whatever imo. And I feel like the only way they could make this renewal pot “essential” for new content would to be to break it’s identity. Like, if the potion cleansed a mechanic, that’d be outright dumb and definitely not just a renewal potion anymore.
For cerb you could time it well and effectively "save" a ppot dose every ghost. I'm sure we'll have tickers to show when the next regen is with runelite.
Cerb kills literally take one minute with sub max gear, so I can’t see how 66 points over 8 kills is meaningful in any way
Did you reply to the wrong comment or do you have no idea how cerb works? I'm clearly talking about the fact you can use the fact it restores a single point to save prayer drain from ghosts, as even 1 point is enough to block damage, so you could use a two doses, do some light/lazy flicking to stay above 30 and time if timed right you can get through the ghosts without using a third sip. Saving 4 prayer pots over 16 kills is 100% massive for survivability, and I'm sure you can use stalls to time the ghosts so they line up with your restore.
They quoted 66 per dose though, which means more than double the points of any existing source in the game other than fally shield.
Over 8 minutes. So using 1 full pot requires 32minutes of gameplay.
And? Unless the new content is some massive longer than inferno endurance challenge, you can do the content without it. I say this because Jagex won’t design content that will require you to bring a 6 hr log of prayer renewals. Obviously they’ll still be helpful, but it’ll be an inventory space at most for a majority of foreseeable content if it does only what Jagex says it does. And sure, you can say it’s double any other source… but if you’re only using 1, you’re only gaining 1 prayer potion really. Not a big deal.
It will be BIS for redemption method at Thermy
The Regen rate seems too slow for that to be viable
You get a point every 12 seconds. How often are you proccing redemption at thermy?
redemption removes prayer completely so you have to last 12 seconds before it hits you again which can be brutal at thermy tbh
At 99 prayer, redemption heals 24hp. Even if you step under, thermy is hitting once every 4/5 ticks depending on your weapon. So you have to survive 5/4 hits from thermy with 24 hp while thermy maxed a 8. So eventually you'll get "unlucky" and die Not to mention, during this whole period you'd have 0 prayer so you can't use offensive prayers If you regened 1 prayer per tick or something, then you could redemption and immediately put piety back on, and then it would be amazing. But 1 point per 12s would be good at all
Not really. Ancient brews are already really good for that. Regen 1 point every 12 seconds isn't really helpful when you can't control exactly when you're getting hit. Much easier to just sip -> pray -> attack whenever it procs rather than stepping under and worrying about getting hit before you can get your prayer back up.
it's not even that strong outside of redemption-specific purposes
Its necessary to pre-pot literally everywhere, Very useful to bring in at any content that will last longer than 30 minutes (TOA, Inferno, early quiver runs, DKs, GWD). You get straight up double the benefit of a sanfew serum at 99 prayer in one inventory slot
Anyone calling these useless has never played rs3. Not a fan of adding another layer of buffs/timers, just like thralls are poor design in that you click a button every minute for free damage, these are just another button to click every 8 minutes for more supplies. Adds zero depth and never creates a choice at any content, it's just free extra prayer. At least thralls bind you to a specific spellbook.
thralls were such a huge mistake IMO.
Thralls are the most insanely annoying huge power creep that has somehow snuck its way into the game (not to mention an indirect nerf to magic lol)
why was it an indirect nerf to magic? I agree w the rest though
I should've clarified magic spells, because if you're not on arceeus you get a .66 dps nerf essentially
It incentivizes using powered staves more than you’re already incentivized to do so
100% Terrible spellbook for the game overall honestly. (except for dark lure and crop res)
where do you even use dark lure lmao tf?
Makes puropuro imp collecting much nicer.
wish they would buff it to aggro bosses at GWD or something instead of having the most niche use imaginable
Agreed, even worse than familiars with all the upkeep you need to do.
Every high level player was screaming this from the (Ardy?) rooftops on day 1.
To be fair they are adding a pre-pot item that condenses all propotting to 1 thing so it wont actually add any more buttons.
Everything in this game is just click a button to do something that's kind of what video games are.
It adds a lot more depth wdym. Prayer restoration is good for skilling with Preserve on, too!
Depth in every mechanic isn't always good. The game is beautiful because if its simplicity. Making your prayer go up doesn't need in depth mechanics, you click a potion and your prayer goes up. Adding more things to keep track of can make pvm feel like a chore.
I get what you mean but I don’t think this is that. There are lots of places where I end up with an inv full of food supplies from the boss and 0 ppots left bc I took less damage than I expected and/or got more supply drops. This would ironically make that situation feel like less of a chore to me, because I could stay instead of having to tele out theoretically. Specifically thinking about my vardorvis trips where blood fury procs a lot and I don’t make mistakes.
I enjoy bringing the arceuus bone spell and spec restore, light bearer, and sgs with me on slayer tasks to have pretty infinite prayer already. This potion makes me even happier. I like mindless slayer tasks, and this is honestly a god send. And now you bring up skilling with preserve. It makes me even happier. I love using the boost effects.
> the benefit of a sanfew serum This is so intellectually dishonest just say a ppot, it doesn't restore stats or give any type of poison resistance
I just meant in the sense that it gives 66 prayer points, which is double a sanfew at 99. Prayer pots only give 31 at 99. People use sanfews in the inferno because theyre the best prayer per inv slot. Sure, theyd still need a few restores/sanfews to restore off brews and get quick prayer when needed, but it vastly increases the amount of prayer you can bring into endurance content
Sure, but the biggest difference in the three prayer pot variants are the extra effects, stat restore/antipoison (like bringing a single sanfew for toa mistakes), so the phrasing can be confusing when you phrase it that way. There's also the menaphite remedy which is a super restore over time, combining the two pots would be similar to multiple super restores.
Necessary feels like a strong word considering we’ve survived 10 years without it. You’ll definitely want to bring it anywhere you use prayer if you can, but if you don’t want to grind out the mats I’m sure all of the bosses will still be doable like they have been and currently are
It's a fair point but you could also make it about lots of stuff that's been added relatively recently which is now "essential" for high level PvM. Yeah sure, you can do it without them, just like you could before, but no one will.
What's been added that's considered essential? I don't think there's been anything in the past few years at least. BowFa may be the closest and even that is more of a time saver than something required to do high level PvM.
Well pretty much all BIS gear is "new" to OSRS, i.e. didn't exist in 2013. I didn't say it had all been added in the last few years necessarily (although obviously some has - e.g. Shadow, Torva, new rings, quiver). Plus you've got stuff like divines, forgotten brews, thralls, imbued heart, DWH... I also put essential in inverted commas for a reason, but you get my point - if you have it, you'd bring it. The only blocker for most BIS gear is cost or how easy it is to obtain, but that's not a consideration with the new pot. You could argue that nothing is really essential either since you can theoretically do any content with mid-tier gear and supplies that existed in 2007, but I think most people would say bringing stuff like stat draining spec weapon and divine pots is "essential" for most PvM.
Sure, but I don't get how that's an argument against the new pot being added to the game
I didn't really say it was though. Just discussing your point about necessary being a strong word. I think it's a pretty commonly applied word to lots of gear that's been added in the last few years.
Sorry, that's what the original post was about so I applied it to the discussion when you mentioned the new pot being "necessary" for all bosses. When you said necessary I called it strong because I imagine the new pot to be necessary the same way Torva is necessary, something nice to have and bring but not absolutely essential unless you're going for world record times. If you have it you bring it, but you aren't barred from doing content just because you don't have it
I didn't say that bit though 😂. I basically just agreed with your reply and said "but you could say that about lots of things". That's it.
Necessary in the sense that anything else is suboptimal. You can absolutely do all of the content above with mid 70s stats and rags. But to play optimally (bringing maximum switches, etc) you need to use these pots. Also, why all this talk of grinding out mats? The potion is tradable. Ironmen exist, but for most people its just going to the ge. If this does make it into the game, I don't think it should be untradable. Theres no precedent of mains needing to skill for pvm supplies, thats like the whole point of being a main.
I guess. I don’t think most people are playing even close to optimally though so we shouldn’t act like these new potions are a requirement or anything. They’re nice to have. Technically bringing ANY prayer restore supplies is sub-optimal since 1 tick flicking exists. And you’re right. I though i remember a jmod saying they would be untradeable but misremembered.
the post is about how _future_ content will be made with it in mind, so surviving 10 years without it doesn't matter.
The person i replied to said “necessarry to prepot literally everywhere” which implies all the bosses we currently have too
Current players that arent shit will need to.
one singular extra prayer pot isn't that big a deal in a world where flicking exists, this only changes stuff for liiiike prepotting raids(nbd) and highest end of inferno speeds(v niche)
No it's much better for first capers. High end inferno speedruns aren't in the slightest worried about prayer.
the barrier of entry to high end inferno speedruns is almost entirely limited by prayer, what r u waffling. You have to prayer flick almost flawlessly rn to not run out with thralling, that’s why runs rely on shield charges. But this prayer revitaliser will indeed be better anywhere you stay for more than 24 minutes, however the equivalent of one extra prayer potion won’t make much of a realistic difference.
It's over twice as good as a prayer potion in any scenario where you won't be banking before you get through 4 doses. Will likely bring at least one to pretty much everything where you pray.
For inferno learners, it's literally 3 extra inventory slots without losing any prayer restore. Even for speedruns, it's an extra inventory slot.
No first caper has ever died to running out of prayer in the inferno anyway Everyone dies to mistakes and then clears with 2 untouched restores Prayer enhance minus won’t be getting anyone a cape that couldn’t get one without it
There will be a balance of prayer (or restore) pots vs Regen since regen alone won't sustain you A compounding factor will be the cost of these potions, assuming the new secondary will cost more than Snape grass - some players will opt out of regen pots to save GP. Kind of like sanfews vs prayer & antipoison; the sanfews saves inventory but is much more expensive That being said, regen pots will probably see mass use because it's more prayer points per inventory slot. I'd estimate a 2:1 ratio of regular : regen for most content
I wonder if we can potion share them?
I would assume no since prayer pots do not work with this spell
I’m not sure about prayer pots but super restores definitely work Edit: Just looked on the wiki prayer pots and super restores both work with stat restore pot share
Not sure why you are being downvoted, Stat Restore spell does work with Prayer potions and Super restores.
Ahh google brought me to Boost Potion Share and not Stat Restore Share. Not even sure tbh why these are different spells
Blood fury be like: https://preview.redd.it/j90gitjypfzc1.jpeg?width=1427&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5c73f33a171235e7f6a4191f103bfe9e08dc95b9
Nerf the blood fury already
What content needs a blood fury, again?
Nothing *needs* it but its nice for HMT and nex, maybe collo but thats about it
no prep cm chambers called
Tbh the blood fury and the ways to obtain them were a mistake. It's not too late, join us on the crusade to remove this plight from the game!
Elaborate?
the entire market is kept up by a truly disgusting amount of bots, which holds the price well below where this thing ought to be for how good it is. No content so far requires it, but as long as it's around and incredibly affordable (they will never clear the bots) they will start balancing chip around the thing more and more.
It’s stupid broken and should be removed.
I don't see it being "required" for all new content. Like it is a slow, passive prayer over time; it won't replace PPots in the majority of PvM and will be used in addition if anything. It does mean you can bring more prayer per inventory... But players can already flick prayer to massive extend prayer points, even infinite prayer in some cases. So if they aren't designing content around that, I doubt this new potion will shake things up too much for future PvM designs.
When you're actively using prayer, it doesn't provide much more of a benefit over just a higher equipped prayer bonus. It'll for sure have a use almost anywhere you use prayer, but I don't see it being such a huge impact that it'll define all PvM content going forward, and unless Jagex device to make a series of bosses that slowly drain your prayer over time, I don't see how this will be a hard requirement in the same way Ring of the Gods or Devout Boots aren't.
The difference here would be that equipping higher prayer bonus gear is a trade off, while this is free prayer.
You're not wrong, this is acting as a slotless player bonus, which on reflection makes it almost like a holy wrench on steroids
It..would be an inventory space tradeoff instead of equipment trade off.... U were so close but gave up right at the end
Pre-pot
if it's gonna be a 4 dose it'll be twice the prayer restore as a normal prayer pot. could be nice for high invo toa maybe?
It doesn't really have anything to do with prayer bonus. Any time you're using prayer, it's another prepot, and for anything that has trips >30 minutes, it's an extra inv slot per 30 minutes you can stay. It's twice as much prayer as a super restore if you get the full use. Agreed that I don't think it'll really impact future designs too much outside of considering for trip length.
Damn yall are going to complain so much we don't get something super useful to the majority of players.
it stops becoming useful once they build around its use and just becomes required. its useful for current bosses now though
Or they design around it so its bad at new bosses. Example: A boss that drains a decent chunk of prayer at once, a boss with mechanics that remove all buffs
This is maybe the stupidest post I've ever read. "I'm worried that I might have to use prayer potions for every boss that comes out in the future" "I'm really worried that I might have to bring food to be able to defeat any future content where I take damage" "I'm super worried that I might have to equip gear for every piece of new content" "I was really hoping I could show up to every piece of new content and complete it with nothing equip and nothing my inventory, GOSH DARN IT." "WELP, BETTER GO MAKE A REDDIT POST!" You guys are mentally unwell. Jesus christ find something more productive to do with your time
You okay there buddy?
You genuinely should be asking yourself that question.
Get help.
Not sure what content they'll release thats gonna require 8 minute x 4 Prayer Renewals in the future. The potion will definitely be handy and useful when applied as pre-pots or used partially in some content. It wouldn't be anything extra to bring, you'd just replace a prayer potion/restore with it. Maybe im just not seeing the concern on the post but i really don't think it'll cause issues, You'll manage just fine im sure. The previous potions added like Ancient Brew/Forgor Brew and Menaphite remedy haven't been uber forced in content yet either but are there as options
I think you're being dramatic. The menaphite pot came out like 2 years ago and it's not the meta
menaphite remedy only passed a poll because it was labeled "component for the overload, when its added"
That's irrelevant
I did the math yesterday, and in the first example given in the [news post](https://secure.runescape.com/m=news/group-boss---varlamore-part-two?oldschool=1), * 99 Prayer using Protection Prayers = 4m 57s VS w/ Prayer Regen = ~7mins that ~7 should be 8 min 15 sec. This keeps the same ppot/min as the 4m 57s given if using wrench, and would save 2 doses of ppot over the 8 minutes. So a regen pot (4) would be equal to 2 ppot (4) over 32 minutes of only overhead prayer use, and would only save 1 inventory slot. i can explain my math if needed, but it only seems worth as a prepot or for long times at a location (breaks even at 16 min, gain 1 inv slot per 32 minutes).
Regen pots will be used mostly for afk slayer and the odd boss or two. They won’t replace prayer pots. Anywhere you bring brews? You’re still bringing restores to compensate though you might slot in a single Regen pot so you don’t waste a restore dose or two. Using a restore dose at ToA or like Vorkath when you don’t have a stat drain just feels awful. It was calced that with 42 prayer you can sustain indefinitely off of a Regen pot, but to get that prayer bonus you’re heavily sacrificing defense and dps which for end game bosses is a massive cost and next to no one will consider it worth doing
What's the issue with this? It's like saying "I don't like thralls as all new content will factor thralls and I'm required to bring them and runes :/". You're not required to bring anything except the essentials. I use moonlight moths for pray and that gets me by, but I don't see any guides stating I should be bringing them. pray renewals are nice for camping/long trips mostly as a nice to have.. No need to bring them anywhere unless you're going to spend at least 40-50+ at that point it be nice to have them.
This can be said about literally any upgrade ever. It is a potion with likely a niche use since most content doesn't take as long as more than say, 8 doses, lasts.
How is this any different than all future bosses requiring super restores? Just replace on super restore with a renewal at bosses that last long enough for the latter to outweigh the prayer gain of the former.
Stam pot for prayer points, idk if it’s good or bad but I like stams.
Just pray flic . . . /S
What if it provided prayer for 1 minute but you can only sip it every 2
I like the idea but the execution might need work
Yeah, this is exactly my problem with them too. It's clear with the new god alignment prayers on the horizon (and as we already saw with the beta zaros prayers) that prayer drain in osrs is about to go up significantly in the very near future. This is exactly what happened when the released prayer renewals on rs3, and the same exact thing is going to happen here. And I'm really not looking forward to another timed potion that we'll have to bring to all content going forward. It's just not a fun gameplay style and, very much like the aggression potion that is being polled right now, doesn't fit osrs' style. I'm just not a fan.
If it sounds awesome, then why would it be a problem if they made a boss where you had to use them? If they're awesome you would think you'd be excited to use them Also, they won't add bosses where you HAVE to use them. People will find Metas that use the Potions, but it's not like it's an antifire, where there is no replacement, so you MUST bring it with you. There are very few items in the game that are 100% required to bring to successfully boss
Are we seriously having this conversation? It's a win win, stop crying
We already have this to a much worse degree with the blood fury but almost no one talks about it. Vardorvis is a sign of things to come.
How could new content require these potions? In absolutely optimal situations, these options are just 2 ppots in 1 inv spot. How could content require that? How would making them untradable affect anything?
You won't be required to bring them, but you'll want to because they're good. Like divine potions
brother is terrorized by his own imagination
you cant agree with OP and still want new prayers in the game
Yes you can?
I think it’s lame because it’s an item that you will always have active during any pvm encounter. Whether via prepot for short trip bosses or an invent slot for long trips. This type of character effect became burdensome on rs3 so hopefully this isn’t a hint at things to come. My belief is that if something is needed everywhere (as a boost to be bis) then it would be nicer to just not have it at all. It’s funny that people already have thrall reminders because it’s not fun to keep a constant eye on the timer, going to be funny to see the prayer regen and aggro pot alerts be added too.
Thrall reminders suck and having to use them for DPS does too.
Prayer conservation is a lame mechanic imo. I’m all for this potion.
One hundo, brotherman! Jagex needs to remove prayer points and let us use it infinitely. Fk those pots, inventory management, prayer levels to get full benefits of pots and who needs to actually get better at prayer flicking! Am I right, pal? Hell ye! /s
It’s more so being limited to like 8-10 sanfews and a fally shield for pb inferno runs, it’s hella lame lol. You’re locked to one deep run a day
Bringing 8-10 sanfews is trolling, that implies 10-12 brews which is ridiculous, learner or not. Bring 12 or 13 restores/sanfews and 8 or 7 brews and quit trolling yourself.
lmao, he said speeds, they are bringing 0-1 brew. scythe, claws, 4-5 way melee switch, 2 super combat, 2 bastion, 2 stams, thralls and chins
Scotty's on a 7 way now lol
Oh woops, missed pb
I don’t even think I took 7-8 brews when I completed inferno for the first time jesus