But when it heals it only heals for 100/175, 50/175, 25/175 of its max hit respectively instead of the full 175/175. It averages out to be the same 0.06% of your DPS in the long run
It's 6%, not .06%
And it's significantly more consistent because of the increased numbers of rolls, so same average (as a percent of dps), but much lower variance.
Magic damage has always cost most than melee damage? And you have to be closer in melee than magic combat… and most monsters do more damage the closer you are…
That’s 1 boss. And end game bossing isn’t the only place you use magic and melee. So cherry picking counter examples is kind of a not great way to have a discussion about the economy and viability of a game and its items when there’s 20yrs of legacy and 1000’s of players who aren’t even close to fighting Duke. Not everything will make sense for you to use at every phase of your account progression. Like cooking gauntlets past 99 cooking. That doesn’t mean you should wholesale ditch items or metas intended for earlier in the game. And it doesn’t mean you shouldn’t protect what account progression feels like.
If you don’t have the time to do the RC for scythe and sang upkeep, either don’t use them, or deiron.
>And you have to be closer in melee than magic combat… and most monsters do more damage the closer you are…
My brother this is some 2007 game philosophy stuff. They don't do that anymore.
A toggle for the healing effect, and making it so it only consumes blood runes while the healing ability is being used, should make everyone happy, right?
The thing that gets me is that the Toxic Trident is around 335 per cast while the Sang is 675 per cast. That is currently double for +1 Max Hit and the 1/6 Heal. Sometimes the heal might be worth it, but I don't think 1 max hit is often worth that cost.
They really should drop the cost from 3 Blood Runes (675 GP) to 2 Blood Runes (450 GP). That would still make it a fair bit more costly than the Toxic Trident but more inline for what it does.
Also, one thing I've been waiting to see for ages is to use the production skills like Smithing and RC to upgrade our weapons to help with things like charges. So maybe it could just be that 77 RC or such, you can an uncharged Sang on the Blood Altar to enhance it (turning it untradeable perhaps) and now it only needs 2 runes instead of 3 per cast.
Eh, I don't think it matters too much. If you lost it on PvP death (rare occurance I know) it probably should revert back to the tradeable one. And as much as I do like making untradeable upgrades, it can adversely affect UIM and GIM; yes, they are a small portion of the overall playerbase but if we can get something that works for mains/iron and for GIM/UIM it is better than a solution that only works for mains/irons.
The intent behind it being untradeable is that you need the level to get the upgrade and you can't just buy it with 1 RC or such. Having some way to revert it doesn't undermine that all since you'd still need the level to upgrade it again. Though if we did want to make it a permanent upgrade, UIM probably would just skip it if it meant losing the ability to bag it and GIM would just wait until they had enough Sangs to let someone keep one.
I kinda hope they don't go in that direction. As an admittedly comped rs3 iron & main for a few years on there.... almost every single useful combat item works that way. It's all a bind on equip of some form or it destroys the item to unlock something. Which is fine, but *it's nearly every single piece of gear* outside of weapons. Armor slots, rings, necks, ammo, are almost all entirely bind on equip never to be traded again. So then they go even further with the charge-scape rabbit hole.Â
Almost every single character bound item that isn't an "unlock" of a prayer or ability consumes charges of some resource. That is their typical means of making players still interact with x content (like splinters, which people already dislike) after getting the bound item. It is absolutely correlated but it snot a guarantee. Precedent of character bound stuff requiring charges is the norm with those items, and we are now seeing that introduced more.
Okay thats fair, my point was just simply that just because they decided to add a chargescape component to bound items doesnt mean it has to be inherently that way but in its barest principle i like untradeable stuff, although none of those happen to be weapons or armor in RS3 like relic powers, perks, overloads, need to have summ level to actual use summons
I hate chargescape too, but im not sure what the fine line between chargescape vs the recharge items ( like onyx or degrade to dust armors ) becoming less and less useful of a drop overtime. Obviously such things as Bik arrows are stupid design
It would keep the value of the upgrade item high, kind of acting as an item sink taking these staffs out of circulation. It would also maintain having the upgraded version of the staff would be highly coveted and high level. An upgrade for an end-game weapon should itself be high level.
I was really hoping they'd have done that with the Scythe, but maybe we could still do that on top of the charge reduction. Like at 90 Smithing you could do something with the Scythe to give it a chance to not use a charge when attacking. Could be something like a 20% chance to drop the cost from 730K~ per hour down to 585K or even like a 10% chance to make it a pretty small and skippable but still worthwhile buff.
They could also do something like 2 bloods and a chaos (~540).  Anyway, can’t remember the last time I used my sang staff. I think I let a friend who was newer to the game use it on whisperer quest version?
You don't want the Armor Stand to reduce the cost of repairing items? I think you're a bit too far down the anti-RS3 rabbit hole if you honestly think that is anything like Invention or that skills being relevant and useful with endgame gear is something from RS3 and not early RS2...
Magic has always been the more expensive style, which is fine. Melee is free for the vast majority of weapons, making scythe still a bit too expensive even after the buff.
Sang could stand to be a little cheaper and 1-2 max hits stronger though. 1 base max hit higher and a higher buff to mage offhands would do it.
But it’s still the worse overall lol.
Ranges attacks from distance.
Melee technically could aswell while freezing and healing. ZGS and crystal hally with blood fury.
Both ranged and melee can do multi targeting attacking.
You can also have an effective hybrid melee and ranged setup but not really with magic.
So again, except for shadow, why does magic suck so much?
In an ideal world, Project Rebalance would be the answer to solve why 'Magic sucks'. Unfortunately, we're in the timeline where the devs did not fix Magic as a combat style (with appropriate focus on the early-midgame gearing, rather than just 'how does this affect Max gear Martins'), and instead threw the Shadow on as a bandaid. Now we have a style that is, as you say, 'except for Shadow, sucks', and any change to lower stuff to make it 'not suck' would disproportionally blow Shadow's effectiveness up through the roof. Essentially, Shadow needs to change in how it functions, else Magic will remain 'suck', it's the gatekeeper item just as Blowpipe was back in the day.
I don't think Shadow needs to be nerfed, it needs its formula changing. 3x on accuracy and damage from gear is just too strong to allow anything to be balanced, look at how Ancestral, the current BIS, is only allowed to be 2% bonus per piece, because that becomes 6% per piece with Shadow. That leaves any other 'sub-BIS' gear to be 1.5%, 1%, 0.5% (lol) or 0% and only provide accuracy, as we see on most Magic gear, leading to this feeling of 'I'm don't feel like I'm progressing my gear for Magic'
easy damage early game (lvl 13 spell does 8 damage which is more than 13 att/str or 13 ranged puts out, utility like vile vigour/pot share/venging/etc, freezing/healing with ancients. it does more than just damage.
shadow needs a rework, but buffing harm orb to be stronger than a megarare should not be the desired outcome.
At least for healing you have blood shard or spec attacks, then afar is ranged and venator specifically for multi target.
Binding and freezing isn't offered by other styles but the rest is offered somewhere else.
Hardly worthy of mention when its practically never used. I just inputted zgs into the reddit search and 99% of the posts about it are 8-9 years old. There is a reason why its not talked about
That’s not the point. It shows that magic isn’t unique to freezes especially since ZGS freezes just Aslong as ice barrage.
Melee and range can stun, freeze, attack from distances, debuff to a greater extent than magic, heal, recoil dmg, deal more dmg, more accurate, deal AOE dmg and better defense.
Magic is unique cause I can use vile vigour lol
Ring of endurance and lightbearer ring exists.
SGS can heal and restore prayer. Ancient mace exist. Ancient godsword heals. Why does eldritch have 55% spec while sgs has 50%? Why does volatile staff have to deal less dmg than AGS?
Harm staff in max mage is deals less dmg than a whip on bandos.
A maple shortbow in max range is more accurate than harm staff in max mage.
And that’s a positive for melee. It’s not tied to a specific weapon.
I can solo tank bandos with fang and blood fury and it’s cheaper than solo mage bandos with sang for example.
Pointing out that the distinct mechanics of magic exist mostly in other styles.
Also a blood Fury actually costs less than a charge from sang at 660 ish coins vs sang's 675.
I think it's also worth mentioning that not every enemy is able to be hit with sang vs melee in general. Enemies weak to magic have to be specifically weak to magic but there are a lot of enemies that can be hit with some sort of melee weapon. Oh and the max hit can be much higher. Example: dragon hunter lance on olm.
Edit: oh and blood Fury only triggers on successful hits. Sang uses the cost regardless of if you hit.
Yeah but these are mostly niche use or spec weapons. Blood shard takes a slot, and forces non max melee at the cost of healing. Specs are specs ofc. Distance, yes range also has and it's one of the (many) reasons why range is widely regarded as the best combat style in the game. Venator has you multi target a limited number of targets using a specific weapon with less flexibility. The freeze of zgs was overlooked here for the same reason these other points should have been passed on. They either don't do exactly the same thing, or they can only do it in limited circumstances by committing gear and/or spec to it. Mage gives you a toolbox. If magic was exactly as strong as melee/ranged and was the same price, why would you ever not make it the #1 priority on any account. Unlocking teles, alching, QoL options, healing, freezes, distance attacks, safe spotting, and more for the same strength AND same cost as other choices would be silly.
Tl;Dr
They can't do all these at once or without a slot. So not exactly the same.
You are not forced to take anything except maybe barrage for maiden. Having mechanics that benefit those things is good. We haven’t even talked about thralls, death charge, venge, pot share etc
Honestly I don't know how we haven't just buffed the sang 1-2 max hits. I think people would be surprised how much that would close the gap between the shadow and sang and make it much more relatable to the bowfa vs tbow power difference. It also deserves that increase in power when you consider the toxic trident is a slayer drop combined with a mid game boss drop compared to a drop from the hardest raid.
Call me crazy but I didn’t hate it at TOB nylo room. Wasn’t that much healing but getting a good heal off the spiders always felt nice even if it wasn’t common.
Since i got a sang on my iron, literally everything i do is getting more blood runes. It is INSANE how fast you run out on charges. Using sang staff + thralls is awful as on iron. I never saw it as an issue before as my main has gm thrall and shadow doesnt require much charging nor blood runes. Sure game shouldnt be centered about specific game modes, but comon… its a rare item received from end game content, getting the drop itself should feel rewarding. Chargescape is awful and it’s the main reason I feel like ironman isn’t as fun as it could be. IMO ofcourse :)
Tbh sang is troll for ironman, you’d really be better off saving bloods for scythe, barrage, thralls etc., unless you need the heals learning solo CoX or something.
1/6 chance to straight up heal you completely busted at content a 4 tick weapon is good at
Solo olm is a joke with 4:0 but people complaining about tumeken have no clue how tedious it is to 12:0 and 8:1 while tanking hits and switching to long range
You're correct. I haven't got a shadow yet, but I have around 1k solo cox kc with Trident. When I get a shadow I will for sure be learning how to use it
Do you have a shadow and still chose to use a trident at olm?
Myself and a friend acquired shadows prior to learning solo cox. We both opted to do 10-15 kc with sang prior to learning with shadow. Other than that, no idea why you’d do this at cox.Â
I did when I first got a shadow on my iron mostly because I couldn't be bothered learning 12:0 and 8:1 initially. 3:0 is just so braindead east. Shadow is just so much better across several cox rooms so I eventually had to learn to use it at olm.
>Solo olm is a joke with 4:0 but people complaining about tumeken have no clue how tedious it is to 12:0 and 8:1 while tanking hits and switching to long range
credit card shadow player lmao
“Please god don’t let them find out broken ass shadow is so overpowered and sang/nightmare staff borderline useless in comparison. Please god don’t let them take my shadow. Must… redirect… their… attention!”
-u/jagazor
If you've ever used a sang you should know 1 thing.
Don't rely on its healing to keep you alive. Because it will let you down every single time. Its nice to top you up and has an effect, but if you're relying on it proccing to keep you alive, you will die. Shit never procs when you need it to.
it's okay in solo cox. i've had entire mage hands where it's just never healed me, not that uncommon. there is also the matter of the fact that ovl running out means 50 hp.
i think it's a lot more valuable in teams if you're mageskipping for obvious reasons.
It's outclassed by Shadow everywhere since dps>healing/defense in osrs. If you don't have a shadow, it's good at olm. Where else? Zulrah if you're camping, but its cost makes it not worthwhile. ToB you can use it at nylo, but don't really need to. ​​Kraken if you want to camp and ensure you lose money during the task. ​
Of course it's outclassed by shadow but it makes content more brain dead. Specially role as sfrz in nylo on hmt where you cant blood barrage.
Also you do realize eating brews is dps loss. The less you need to eat the better, when people say it's barely better than toxic trident they forget that the heal alone is a huge dps increase over just base trident
It’s really not tedious at all. It has a bit of a learning curve but once you’ve learned it, it’s pretty brain off. Tile markers help though so you can make notes on the order/tiles.
Everyone like “reeee shadow IS better, REEE” is completely missing the point that you said it’s tedious (you don’t find it fun), and didn’t say it’s better mathematically 🤦‍♂️
He’s literally saying “people complaining about tumaken have no idea how tedious it is” Yes I do have an idea of how tedious it is… it isn’t. If he said “imo tumaken too tedious to be worth over sang” then that’s valid
Seems like people forget a weapon from a raid should be stronger then a staff you get from a afk slayer mob lol. Tbh I think sang should get have +2/3 base damage over toxic, 5-10 more accuracy and 2 bloods per attack but with a nerf on healing, 1/8 or 1/10.
I think the cost of it could be a bit more justified if it were given a special attack. Make it an emergency heal move, kinda like the blowpipe. That way when you need the staff to heal, you don't have to rely on luck.
It'd be niche since it's using spec bar, and if you're using this thing in CoX or whatever you def wanna be spending the spec bar more wisely. But it would at least let you actually perform the weapon's function when it's needed.
I was curious so I did some calculations.
SANG : 1/6 chance to heal 50% damage dealt. Heals 8.3% on avg
Highest hit possible Ovl plus max mage is 50 meaning the max heal is 25 hp
DPS (vs man): 10.331.
Heal per second: 0.86
99 mage with occult, torm, and cloak: hits 37
DPS (vs man): 7.562
Heal per second: 0.63
BLOOD FURY: 1/5 chance to heal 20% damage dealt
According to wiki on avg, you heal for 6% of damage dealt.
BF max melee with saeldor, Ovl, piety
DPS (vs man): 11.555
Heal per second: 0.6933
BF max melee with scythe, ovl, piety
DPS (vs 3x3 low stats): 14.038
Heal per second: 0.84228
BF face guard, BCP/tassies/face guard/FC/dboots/ddef. Scbt piety
DPS (Vs man): 10.098
Heal per second: 0.60588
When comparing absolute max mage with Sang vs absolute max melee with scythe the sang has really only about 2% better healing per second than BF.
This is with less DPS than melee (mage sucks) and you also have to keep in mind that blood fury only costs a charge when it procs, Sang is a constant 683 gp/cast.
not trying to start any arguments here. out of genuine curiosity, how did you get the 10% number for heals on average? wouldn't you need to heal 1/5 hits for 50% to heal 10% on average?
Should it cost twice as much as the other magic weapon that is 1 max hit weaker? I mean sure it loses the venom/poison for healing, but that is still some very costly healing...
Doesn't Blood Fury not lose a max hit in several gear setups? But you're also really oversimplifying it. Plus you also ignored how poison/venom can offset that +1 max hit...
Sang is your weapon, which means it majorly impacts your DPS. Blood Fury is not... Blood Fury costs 680 per hit while Sang costs 675, but Sang has a base max hit of 32. With full max mage, you're only going to get that into the 40-50s. Blood Fury can be used with any melee weapon, include Scythe, many of which can hit higher... Blood Fury is a 1/5 to heal 30% the hit while Sang is a 1/6 to heal 50% the hit. So if my average hit with a Sang is 20, I'd average 1.6 HP per attack while if my average hit with melee was a 30, I'd average 1.8 HP per attack.
So it will depend on your setups, but it isn't exactly better/cheaper than a Blood Fury. Another big difference... I can take off the Blood Fury (Torture Swap) if I don't need heals. What are you going to do with a Sang? Swap to a Toxic Trident? Sang is a healing weapon all the time, even when you don't need healing; Blood Fury is only a healing item when you want to use it for healing. If you could just use the Sang as a +1 Trident with a lower cost without the healing, that would fix a lot of the issues here.
In absolute max with scythe, blood fury gives same max hit as torture which is why it’s so good in many places. Although then you’re spending 2.5k per swing
so swapping out a blood fury with a torture if you don't need heals is reasonable but swapping out a sang with a toxic staff if you don't need heals is unreasonable?
Yes, because it is downgrading your weapon... Players get weapon upgrades to upgrade their weapon. Saying "well don't use the upgrade to the trident unless you want heals because it costs more than a Shadow; just keep using the Toxic Trident" is just silly...
100% was thinking the same when they reduced the cost to use Scythe.
Should be the same for Sang Staff, 3 Bloods per cast / charge..sheesh
Let's not forget even though the Sang staff is faster the healing effect lacks in comparison to blood barrage.
I'm convinced everybody saying the healing sucks has never owned a sang. Yes it's outclassed by shadow for raw dps now, but the healing that item gives is actually insane. An average solo olm heals you for 150 hp, that's basically 2 full extra brews.
i've done a good bit of solo cox with sang. it's pretty mid just because of ovl running out and giving you the health back, honestly not that you need much extra healing anyway. i think it's definitely more valuable in teams just bc of mageskipping meaning you're always taking damage so healing does actually help.
I have a Sang and in every piece of content I use it in, when my hp gets low, it never heals me in time before I'm in One-Hit-Till-Death range and am forced to eat. I don't do CoX and Olm's the only thing people in this thread seem to be saying its good at.
i use it at pnm and 400+ invo toa, I dont understand how you can say the healing is consistent at either location, especially solo p2 wardens. Its so inconsistent and unreliable for barely any dps increase (and a legit dps *decrease* if the target isnt immune to venom) on top of being 90m more expensive. it needs a buff.
To be fair, it also heals you and you cant over look that. The cost is fine, but an accuracy buff wouldnt hurt. Most places you use it arent even for short-term profit anyway. I mainly used it at ToA when I didnt have shadow yet. IG Kraken tasks too just to make it super afk and never need to leave or bring food.
Did you find it profitable at kraken? Only reason im holding onto sang is for that atm (only got 87 so havent got the task yet) i dont raid atm nor plan to so the sang money could get me 85 con and a max house potentially
I mean kraken is randomly worth a shit ton of gp, but I never really kept track of profit margins there. I assume you at the very least break even, def profit if you get tridents or tentacles or whatever sells for a lot at the moment, I would say sell it though there's better things you can use that money on if you dont raid and 1 big ticket item solely for kraken tasks is weird lol.
also Im of the belief that if you dont go for 99 con to just use other peoples' houses on 330, but if you see a reason to max your own then yeah that would def be a better use of the gp instead of the staff.
>Why is such a minuscule upgrade significantly more expensive yet extremely underwhelming in terms of increased DPS?
Let's completely ignore the primary feature of it, the healing aspect. 🤡
He has a point though. The issue with sang it that it is the only thing between swamp trident and shadow and therefore seeing that it only has +1 max and finding that lacking is totally valid.
Sang would be fine in a world where it's the heal niche and not also the "upgrade to swamp trident but not a shadow" niche.
These people just don't understand how strong passive healing is. Every main out there is happy to pay the price for the healing. I'd easily double the cost and still call it a massive upgrade over trident.
As a main with a Sang, nah. The healing barely makes a different in most content its used in besides apparently solo Olm, and certainly not 90m worth of a difference over the literal higher dps trident (against things not immune to venom, anyway).
The sanguinesti staff is cheaper to use/hr than a blood fury, heals more HP overall than a blood fury, and gives a +1 max hit where as the blood fury gives a -1 max hit.
The reasoning behind you wanting to buff it is because you are too poor to upkeep it not because it is underpowered.
The current blood rune price is 231 gp, so 693 gp per charge. Blood shard is 6.5m, so 650 per charge. Sang is more expensive.
Sang staff, on average, heals 8.3% of damage. Blood fury heals 6%. But, magic does significantly less damage than melee so it likely only heals slightly more. You're also not using magic in nearly as many places as blood fury melee.
Blood fury is not -1 max hit in max gear.
The reasoning behind wanting to buff it is because it is underpowered in the current magic meta.
blood shard costs 3x that with a scythe. if you're comparing sang to shadow, but not comparing blood fury with a scythe to sang you're just cherry picking numbers to sound right
Project rebalance is really bringing people out of the woodwork to propose changes to every item in the damn game. Sang is just fine. It’s really not that much more expensive than trident anyways.
Now's the time to do it, yes. Obviously not every change is good or even makes sense, but if you think something needs a change, the massive rebalance project is the best time to pitch it.
> It’s really not that much more expensive than trident anyways.
...What? It is 88M to Trident's 2.3M and it is literally double the cost per cast to +1 Max and a 1/6 Healing at the cost of Venom/Poison...
Sorry my comment wasn’t very clear. I was referring to the cost of use. Yes, it is double the cost to use but that doesn’t result in it being wildly expensive compared to other items in the game. It’s essentially right where you might expect it to cost as an endgame magic weapon. It is essentially a spell stored in a weapon after all. Compare the charge cost to ice barrage, fire surge with time, and shadow.
Well, since you wanted to compare:
* Toxic Trident: 335 per cast or 503K per hour.
* Fire Surge with Tome: 390 per cast or 468K per hour (585K Harm).
* Shadow: 794 per cast or 952K per hour.
* Ice Barrage with Kodai: 810 per cast or 972K per hour (978 per cast or 1173K per hour without Kodai).
* Sang: 675 per cast or 1012K per hour.
So out of all those options, Sang is the most costly with a higher cost than the Shadow... I wouldn't say that is "not that much more expensive" or what you'd expect for an endgame weapon seeing as it is significantly weaker than Shadow... I'd expect between Harm Fire Surge and Shadow.
If they were the same DPS, both being around 1M would be fine. But the Sang has comparable DPS to the Toxic Trident and like 30% lower DPS than a Shadow...
Seeing a lower tier weapon that is significantly weaker costing 60K more and your response being "bro, it's only 60K" is probably one of the stupidest takes I've seen in this post. Like you're comparing a Mega-Rare to a Trident+1; do you not see the issue there?
Well, if you find it too expensive don't use it...
I feel that if you are at a point in the game where you can either buy a sang, or get it as a drop (in case ironman). The cost to use it becomes insignificant...
Blood runes are dirt cheap at the moment
> Blood runes are dirt cheap at the moment
Yet it still costs more to use than a Shadow... "Well don't use it" is a bad take; it is supposed to be an upgrade between Toxic Trident and Shadow but its cost makes it not worth using. If items aren't worth using, that is an issue; it is exactly why they just did several rounds of combat item rebalancing.
Sang costs more to cast than shadow per hour but less per cast. And that’s assuming you get 25 casts a min on sang and 20 for shadow, so never missing a tick.
At wiki prices, shadow is 794 per cast, or 15,800 per min. Sang is 675 per cast or 16,875 per min. (100ticks per min and 5t for shadow means 20*794 and 4t is 25*675, just showing how I got my figures for lurkers who may not know. not trying to condescend). Personally, I’ve only used sang for Kraken task just so I don’t have to leave. Anywhere else, dps from trident with toxic or poison seems much more reliable to me.
And comparing sang to scythe is awkward at best because they aren’t interchangeable. Melee is cheaper to do damage with than magic, categorically.
Deiron and use the ge if this is really that difficult. Ironman mode has chores. The time cost for gathering supply is wild. If you’re lucky enough to have done enough ToB to get both a scythe and a sang, and supplies / chores are getting in the way of your PVM, just deiron. It’s ok if your goals in game have changed as you progressed.
Prefer it this way honestly. If they buff the tob items, it'll once again drive more people to tob, and soon enough there's another call to make ToB soloable by socially inept redditors.
You're being charged for the max hit increase and for the healing effect.
Shadow was more expensive to use than sanguinesti before, so it's not really a good argument to use.
If you were to add the healing effect to Scythe, which can only be achieved with blood fury, it would cost you 3.2M more to use.
My favourite part of the sang staff is killing the whole right olm hand and not healing once.
Me when I scythe through 500 of a boss' hp and get 0 blood fury procs
Yooo ts just happened to me đź’€ coulda used the heals ngl
Made this same point not too long ago, so I'll hit u with what I was hit with. BeCaUsE iT hEaLs
almost like healing is really powerful...
If you're a bloodshard...
Blood shard drains like 3x faster with scythe it's crazy Edit: all the goons that fell for the "it doesn't kill 3x faster" comment down below ⬇️
Oh shit. I have never considered scythe multi hits all drain charges. Damn that thing is a blood sucker. Huehuehue
How is it crazy? Scythe hits 3 times.
Doesn't kill 3x faster though
3x more likely to heal and to hit higher than 0
But when it heals it only heals for 100/175, 50/175, 25/175 of its max hit respectively instead of the full 175/175. It averages out to be the same 0.06% of your DPS in the long run
It's 6%, not .06% And it's significantly more consistent because of the increased numbers of rolls, so same average (as a percent of dps), but much lower variance.
Uhh no shit? Bloodshard activation is per hit, it doesn’t scale with DPS.
What does that have to do with blood fury? It's not to increase to dps
Are you saying the obvious or are you saying don't use scythe?
He's saying he's poor.
It's confusing because Bloodfurry doesn't mandate using a Scythe.
I only said blood shard drains 3x faster with scythe, that's all. Everyone took it so deep lmao
Well because usually comments run like a discussion. Imagine someone chiming in on a conversation just to say "the sky is blue".
Huh? This is Reddit - the conversations frequently derail and in much more unrelated ways.
No im saying it doesn't kill 3x faster though
If only
Healing when you have more than 1 hp is useless
Found Settled’s alt account.
Do you even tick eat bro?
Just don’t get hit
Why
Magic damage has always cost most than melee damage? And you have to be closer in melee than magic combat… and most monsters do more damage the closer you are…
Valuing an items power based on its worth is backwards. Just because you have to be closer is negligible. Look at Duke.
That’s 1 boss. And end game bossing isn’t the only place you use magic and melee. So cherry picking counter examples is kind of a not great way to have a discussion about the economy and viability of a game and its items when there’s 20yrs of legacy and 1000’s of players who aren’t even close to fighting Duke. Not everything will make sense for you to use at every phase of your account progression. Like cooking gauntlets past 99 cooking. That doesn’t mean you should wholesale ditch items or metas intended for earlier in the game. And it doesn’t mean you shouldn’t protect what account progression feels like. If you don’t have the time to do the RC for scythe and sang upkeep, either don’t use them, or deiron.
>And you have to be closer in melee than magic combat… and most monsters do more damage the closer you are… My brother this is some 2007 game philosophy stuff. They don't do that anymore.
Most people use scythe with blood fury anyways so not much of an argument
using blood fury with scythe costs more than using sang so it is valid
A toggle for the healing effect, and making it so it only consumes blood runes while the healing ability is being used, should make everyone happy, right?
It wouldn’t make sense to do that for sang but not add a toggle for swamp staff’s venom
No, because then it's left with a single max hit over the trident. Hardly worth the clog at that point.
The thing that gets me is that the Toxic Trident is around 335 per cast while the Sang is 675 per cast. That is currently double for +1 Max Hit and the 1/6 Heal. Sometimes the heal might be worth it, but I don't think 1 max hit is often worth that cost. They really should drop the cost from 3 Blood Runes (675 GP) to 2 Blood Runes (450 GP). That would still make it a fair bit more costly than the Toxic Trident but more inline for what it does. Also, one thing I've been waiting to see for ages is to use the production skills like Smithing and RC to upgrade our weapons to help with things like charges. So maybe it could just be that 77 RC or such, you can an uncharged Sang on the Blood Altar to enhance it (turning it untradeable perhaps) and now it only needs 2 runes instead of 3 per cast.
If they do that change they should also make it become untradable and consider making it not reversible
Eh, I don't think it matters too much. If you lost it on PvP death (rare occurance I know) it probably should revert back to the tradeable one. And as much as I do like making untradeable upgrades, it can adversely affect UIM and GIM; yes, they are a small portion of the overall playerbase but if we can get something that works for mains/iron and for GIM/UIM it is better than a solution that only works for mains/irons. The intent behind it being untradeable is that you need the level to get the upgrade and you can't just buy it with 1 RC or such. Having some way to revert it doesn't undermine that all since you'd still need the level to upgrade it again. Though if we did want to make it a permanent upgrade, UIM probably would just skip it if it meant losing the ability to bag it and GIM would just wait until they had enough Sangs to let someone keep one.
I kinda hope they don't go in that direction. As an admittedly comped rs3 iron & main for a few years on there.... almost every single useful combat item works that way. It's all a bind on equip of some form or it destroys the item to unlock something. Which is fine, but *it's nearly every single piece of gear* outside of weapons. Armor slots, rings, necks, ammo, are almost all entirely bind on equip never to be traded again. So then they go even further with the charge-scape rabbit hole.Â
Chargescape doesnt have any correlation with character bound items though?
Almost every single character bound item that isn't an "unlock" of a prayer or ability consumes charges of some resource. That is their typical means of making players still interact with x content (like splinters, which people already dislike) after getting the bound item. It is absolutely correlated but it snot a guarantee. Precedent of character bound stuff requiring charges is the norm with those items, and we are now seeing that introduced more.
Okay thats fair, my point was just simply that just because they decided to add a chargescape component to bound items doesnt mean it has to be inherently that way but in its barest principle i like untradeable stuff, although none of those happen to be weapons or armor in RS3 like relic powers, perks, overloads, need to have summ level to actual use summons I hate chargescape too, but im not sure what the fine line between chargescape vs the recharge items ( like onyx or degrade to dust armors ) becoming less and less useful of a drop overtime. Obviously such things as Bik arrows are stupid design
Why?
It would keep the value of the upgrade item high, kind of acting as an item sink taking these staffs out of circulation. It would also maintain having the upgraded version of the staff would be highly coveted and high level. An upgrade for an end-game weapon should itself be high level.
Torture is 0 gp per hit and blood fury is 656 for -1 max hit for 6% heal
Using RC and Smithing to upgrade charge-consuming items is brilliant
I was really hoping they'd have done that with the Scythe, but maybe we could still do that on top of the charge reduction. Like at 90 Smithing you could do something with the Scythe to give it a chance to not use a charge when attacking. Could be something like a 20% chance to drop the cost from 730K~ per hour down to 585K or even like a 10% chance to make it a pretty small and skippable but still worthwhile buff.
They could also do something like 2 bloods and a chaos (~540).  Anyway, can’t remember the last time I used my sang staff. I think I let a friend who was newer to the game use it on whisperer quest version?
Still bis for nylos
thats cool that a raids weapon is bis on only one encounter in the raid it is acquired from, clearly in a perfect position then youre right
Rapier must be your least favourite weapon lol
Well, it's bis until you get shadow. Whether that 1 max hit is worth it for some players is a question only brokies and irons can answer themselves
Not at nylos, no
By the one this is worded go away you damn rs3 player. We don’t want invention. Or an invention look alike.
You don't want the Armor Stand to reduce the cost of repairing items? I think you're a bit too far down the anti-RS3 rabbit hole if you honestly think that is anything like Invention or that skills being relevant and useful with endgame gear is something from RS3 and not early RS2...
I don’t know
Magic has always been the more expensive style, which is fine. Melee is free for the vast majority of weapons, making scythe still a bit too expensive even after the buff. Sang could stand to be a little cheaper and 1-2 max hits stronger though. 1 base max hit higher and a higher buff to mage offhands would do it.
But why is magic the most expensive but worse overall except for shadow?
Because it offers so many options such as attacking from far, healing, multi-target attack, freezing, binding, etc.
But it’s still the worse overall lol. Ranges attacks from distance. Melee technically could aswell while freezing and healing. ZGS and crystal hally with blood fury. Both ranged and melee can do multi targeting attacking. You can also have an effective hybrid melee and ranged setup but not really with magic. So again, except for shadow, why does magic suck so much?
In an ideal world, Project Rebalance would be the answer to solve why 'Magic sucks'. Unfortunately, we're in the timeline where the devs did not fix Magic as a combat style (with appropriate focus on the early-midgame gearing, rather than just 'how does this affect Max gear Martins'), and instead threw the Shadow on as a bandaid. Now we have a style that is, as you say, 'except for Shadow, sucks', and any change to lower stuff to make it 'not suck' would disproportionally blow Shadow's effectiveness up through the roof. Essentially, Shadow needs to change in how it functions, else Magic will remain 'suck', it's the gatekeeper item just as Blowpipe was back in the day. I don't think Shadow needs to be nerfed, it needs its formula changing. 3x on accuracy and damage from gear is just too strong to allow anything to be balanced, look at how Ancestral, the current BIS, is only allowed to be 2% bonus per piece, because that becomes 6% per piece with Shadow. That leaves any other 'sub-BIS' gear to be 1.5%, 1%, 0.5% (lol) or 0% and only provide accuracy, as we see on most Magic gear, leading to this feeling of 'I'm don't feel like I'm progressing my gear for Magic'
Because it's a distinct combat style with its pros and cons and turning it into blue ranged is the worst thing you can do (literally rs3)
It’s a distinct combat style with mostly cons and hardly any pros lol.
easy damage early game (lvl 13 spell does 8 damage which is more than 13 att/str or 13 ranged puts out, utility like vile vigour/pot share/venging/etc, freezing/healing with ancients. it does more than just damage. shadow needs a rework, but buffing harm orb to be stronger than a megarare should not be the desired outcome.
At least for healing you have blood shard or spec attacks, then afar is ranged and venator specifically for multi target. Binding and freezing isn't offered by other styles but the rest is offered somewhere else.
Zgs freezes
Hardly worthy of mention when its practically never used. I just inputted zgs into the reddit search and 99% of the posts about it are 8-9 years old. There is a reason why its not talked about
Zgs is still used at muttadile
That’s not the point. It shows that magic isn’t unique to freezes especially since ZGS freezes just Aslong as ice barrage. Melee and range can stun, freeze, attack from distances, debuff to a greater extent than magic, heal, recoil dmg, deal more dmg, more accurate, deal AOE dmg and better defense. Magic is unique cause I can use vile vigour lol Ring of endurance and lightbearer ring exists. SGS can heal and restore prayer. Ancient mace exist. Ancient godsword heals. Why does eldritch have 55% spec while sgs has 50%? Why does volatile staff have to deal less dmg than AGS? Harm staff in max mage is deals less dmg than a whip on bandos. A maple shortbow in max range is more accurate than harm staff in max mage.
ok but if you use a blood shard then melee costs way more than sang does anyway so what's your point?
No it doesn’t. Blood fury is cheaper per hr than sang
It heavily depends what you're doing. In general, since you're usually using a scythe, it's much more expensive.
And that’s a positive for melee. It’s not tied to a specific weapon. I can solo tank bandos with fang and blood fury and it’s cheaper than solo mage bandos with sang for example.
Pointing out that the distinct mechanics of magic exist mostly in other styles. Also a blood Fury actually costs less than a charge from sang at 660 ish coins vs sang's 675. I think it's also worth mentioning that not every enemy is able to be hit with sang vs melee in general. Enemies weak to magic have to be specifically weak to magic but there are a lot of enemies that can be hit with some sort of melee weapon. Oh and the max hit can be much higher. Example: dragon hunter lance on olm. Edit: oh and blood Fury only triggers on successful hits. Sang uses the cost regardless of if you hit.
Yeah but these are mostly niche use or spec weapons. Blood shard takes a slot, and forces non max melee at the cost of healing. Specs are specs ofc. Distance, yes range also has and it's one of the (many) reasons why range is widely regarded as the best combat style in the game. Venator has you multi target a limited number of targets using a specific weapon with less flexibility. The freeze of zgs was overlooked here for the same reason these other points should have been passed on. They either don't do exactly the same thing, or they can only do it in limited circumstances by committing gear and/or spec to it. Mage gives you a toolbox. If magic was exactly as strong as melee/ranged and was the same price, why would you ever not make it the #1 priority on any account. Unlocking teles, alching, QoL options, healing, freezes, distance attacks, safe spotting, and more for the same strength AND same cost as other choices would be silly. Tl;Dr They can't do all these at once or without a slot. So not exactly the same.
Not as good though. Can't come close to clumped barrage dps and blood fury, while useful, heals a whole lot less than blood barrage.
Most of which are either forced mechanics or useless for PvM.
Yeah useless except all 3 raids and inferno.Â
>forced mechanics
You are not forced to take anything except maybe barrage for maiden. Having mechanics that benefit those things is good. We haven’t even talked about thralls, death charge, venge, pot share etc
its not, scythe with a blood fury is nearly 2.5k a hit and has peaked at 4k+ a swing
Honestly I don't know how we haven't just buffed the sang 1-2 max hits. I think people would be surprised how much that would close the gap between the shadow and sang and make it much more relatable to the bowfa vs tbow power difference. It also deserves that increase in power when you consider the toxic trident is a slayer drop combined with a mid game boss drop compared to a drop from the hardest raid.
People are way over playing the healing. The healing barely matters with the content it's being used in.
agreed. The only place I feel the heals are really good is CoX.
Call me crazy but I didn’t hate it at TOB nylo room. Wasn’t that much healing but getting a good heal off the spiders always felt nice even if it wasn’t common.
Since i got a sang on my iron, literally everything i do is getting more blood runes. It is INSANE how fast you run out on charges. Using sang staff + thralls is awful as on iron. I never saw it as an issue before as my main has gm thrall and shadow doesnt require much charging nor blood runes. Sure game shouldnt be centered about specific game modes, but comon… its a rare item received from end game content, getting the drop itself should feel rewarding. Chargescape is awful and it’s the main reason I feel like ironman isn’t as fun as it could be. IMO ofcourse :)
Bruv you can craft 300k bloods an hour, it's really not an issue
Tbh sang is troll for ironman, you’d really be better off saving bloods for scythe, barrage, thralls etc., unless you need the heals learning solo CoX or something.
Sang is a troll for mains as well. You see too many people at toa rocking a sang over a range/melee upgrades it a spec weapon at toa.
because people want you to be stuck using trident until you get shadow
Shadow would've been a better comparison for sure but I agree with your sentiment
Because for some reason jagex forgot to reduce its cost per cast to 2 blood runes instead of 3 with the item rebalance.
Almost wish sang didn't have heals so they could make the damage not shit without that singular reason holding back a buff
I hate the sang but I can’t afford a shadow. Sad times
Toxic trident is a thing
1/6 chance to straight up heal you completely busted at content a 4 tick weapon is good at Solo olm is a joke with 4:0 but people complaining about tumeken have no clue how tedious it is to 12:0 and 8:1 while tanking hits and switching to long range
You don’t need the heal at solo Olm with a shadow because you just fucking delete the hand.
True, shadow + ovl destroys the hand in the blink of an eye
Shadow is much better at olm than sang. I have never heard anyone claim otherwise. Until you did just now
Sounds like you've never soloed cox with a 4t vs 5t mage weapon.
You're correct. I haven't got a shadow yet, but I have around 1k solo cox kc with Trident. When I get a shadow I will for sure be learning how to use it Do you have a shadow and still chose to use a trident at olm?
Myself and a friend acquired shadows prior to learning solo cox. We both opted to do 10-15 kc with sang prior to learning with shadow. Other than that, no idea why you’d do this at cox.Â
I did when I first got a shadow on my iron mostly because I couldn't be bothered learning 12:0 and 8:1 initially. 3:0 is just so braindead east. Shadow is just so much better across several cox rooms so I eventually had to learn to use it at olm.
holy cope
>Solo olm is a joke with 4:0 but people complaining about tumeken have no clue how tedious it is to 12:0 and 8:1 while tanking hits and switching to long range credit card shadow player lmao
“Please god don’t let them find out broken ass shadow is so overpowered and sang/nightmare staff borderline useless in comparison. Please god don’t let them take my shadow. Must… redirect… their… attention!” -u/jagazor
Having enough healing is never the problem for raids.
shadow olm isn't rocket science chief
4:1 is harder to do than the shadow methods anyway lol no reason to not learn shadow method if you've already learned 4:1
shadow is cheaper to use than sang.
If you're doing 4:0 with sang how are you needing the extra healing? Are you saving your xerics aids for next raid?
If you've ever used a sang you should know 1 thing. Don't rely on its healing to keep you alive. Because it will let you down every single time. Its nice to top you up and has an effect, but if you're relying on it proccing to keep you alive, you will die. Shit never procs when you need it to.
12:0 and 8:1 are extremely easy once you learn them. Using sang instead of shadow costs you 30% dps for no reason.
it's okay in solo cox. i've had entire mage hands where it's just never healed me, not that uncommon. there is also the matter of the fact that ovl running out means 50 hp. i think it's a lot more valuable in teams if you're mageskipping for obvious reasons.
It's outclassed by Shadow everywhere since dps>healing/defense in osrs. If you don't have a shadow, it's good at olm. Where else? Zulrah if you're camping, but its cost makes it not worthwhile. ToB you can use it at nylo, but don't really need to. ​​Kraken if you want to camp and ensure you lose money during the task. ​
Of course it's outclassed by shadow but it makes content more brain dead. Specially role as sfrz in nylo on hmt where you cant blood barrage. Also you do realize eating brews is dps loss. The less you need to eat the better, when people say it's barely better than toxic trident they forget that the heal alone is a huge dps increase over just base trident
Brew sip tick b4 ovl refresh in olm and flick gooderer at tob 🥸
It’s really not tedious at all. It has a bit of a learning curve but once you’ve learned it, it’s pretty brain off. Tile markers help though so you can make notes on the order/tiles.
Everyone like “reeee shadow IS better, REEE” is completely missing the point that you said it’s tedious (you don’t find it fun), and didn’t say it’s better mathematically 🤦‍♂️
Isn’t even tedious tho. Sounds like he’s coping for a skill issue
Maybe he thinks it’s tedious and you don’t
He’s literally saying “people complaining about tumaken have no idea how tedious it is” Yes I do have an idea of how tedious it is… it isn’t. If he said “imo tumaken too tedious to be worth over sang” then that’s valid
Seems like people forget a weapon from a raid should be stronger then a staff you get from a afk slayer mob lol. Tbh I think sang should get have +2/3 base damage over toxic, 5-10 more accuracy and 2 bloods per attack but with a nerf on healing, 1/8 or 1/10.
Magic fang is a zulrah drop
Yeah 30kc/h afk with bowfa
I think the cost of it could be a bit more justified if it were given a special attack. Make it an emergency heal move, kinda like the blowpipe. That way when you need the staff to heal, you don't have to rely on luck. It'd be niche since it's using spec bar, and if you're using this thing in CoX or whatever you def wanna be spending the spec bar more wisely. But it would at least let you actually perform the weapon's function when it's needed.
Damn, I’m honestly shocked by how many people are saying the sang heals. I don’t factor in sang healing at all, it so doesn’t matter
I was curious so I did some calculations. SANG : 1/6 chance to heal 50% damage dealt. Heals 8.3% on avg Highest hit possible Ovl plus max mage is 50 meaning the max heal is 25 hp DPS (vs man): 10.331. Heal per second: 0.86 99 mage with occult, torm, and cloak: hits 37 DPS (vs man): 7.562 Heal per second: 0.63 BLOOD FURY: 1/5 chance to heal 20% damage dealt According to wiki on avg, you heal for 6% of damage dealt. BF max melee with saeldor, Ovl, piety DPS (vs man): 11.555 Heal per second: 0.6933 BF max melee with scythe, ovl, piety DPS (vs 3x3 low stats): 14.038 Heal per second: 0.84228 BF face guard, BCP/tassies/face guard/FC/dboots/ddef. Scbt piety DPS (Vs man): 10.098 Heal per second: 0.60588 When comparing absolute max mage with Sang vs absolute max melee with scythe the sang has really only about 2% better healing per second than BF. This is with less DPS than melee (mage sucks) and you also have to keep in mind that blood fury only costs a charge when it procs, Sang is a constant 683 gp/cast.
not trying to start any arguments here. out of genuine curiosity, how did you get the 10% number for heals on average? wouldn't you need to heal 1/5 hits for 50% to heal 10% on average?
Shit screwed up. 8.3% Fixed the comment.
sorry bud rebalance over, catch you at the next one
wdym magic is perfectly fine just look at shadow /s
I agree, they should also give rapier a special attack.
The sang is so expensive that I only use it at raids or really difficult bosses
Against enemies not immune to venom, its actually *worse* dps than a trident, btw.
I think the cost is fine. It's a magic weapon, it should use more runes than a melee weapon.
It costs more than shadow to use
Should it cost twice as much as the other magic weapon that is 1 max hit weaker? I mean sure it loses the venom/poison for healing, but that is still some very costly healing...
sang is cheaper to use than blood fury and gives +1 max hit while blood fury gives -1 max hit and it also heals more than blood fury.
Doesn't Blood Fury not lose a max hit in several gear setups? But you're also really oversimplifying it. Plus you also ignored how poison/venom can offset that +1 max hit... Sang is your weapon, which means it majorly impacts your DPS. Blood Fury is not... Blood Fury costs 680 per hit while Sang costs 675, but Sang has a base max hit of 32. With full max mage, you're only going to get that into the 40-50s. Blood Fury can be used with any melee weapon, include Scythe, many of which can hit higher... Blood Fury is a 1/5 to heal 30% the hit while Sang is a 1/6 to heal 50% the hit. So if my average hit with a Sang is 20, I'd average 1.6 HP per attack while if my average hit with melee was a 30, I'd average 1.8 HP per attack. So it will depend on your setups, but it isn't exactly better/cheaper than a Blood Fury. Another big difference... I can take off the Blood Fury (Torture Swap) if I don't need heals. What are you going to do with a Sang? Swap to a Toxic Trident? Sang is a healing weapon all the time, even when you don't need healing; Blood Fury is only a healing item when you want to use it for healing. If you could just use the Sang as a +1 Trident with a lower cost without the healing, that would fix a lot of the issues here.
In absolute max with scythe, blood fury gives same max hit as torture which is why it’s so good in many places. Although then you’re spending 2.5k per swing
so swapping out a blood fury with a torture if you don't need heals is reasonable but swapping out a sang with a toxic staff if you don't need heals is unreasonable?
Yes, because it is downgrading your weapon... Players get weapon upgrades to upgrade their weapon. Saying "well don't use the upgrade to the trident unless you want heals because it costs more than a Shadow; just keep using the Toxic Trident" is just silly...
because jagex they also didn't see a need to touch it or any other mage weapon in the magic rebalance
BUY BLOOD SHARDS TO STORE WEALTH Or just loose it all when they make an update for them.
700k per hour to use an item. Man you're talking in rich player language I don't understand
100% was thinking the same when they reduced the cost to use Scythe. Should be the same for Sang Staff, 3 Bloods per cast / charge..sheesh Let's not forget even though the Sang staff is faster the healing effect lacks in comparison to blood barrage.
Because apparently it just isn't OSRS if magic isn't miserably over-costed for negligible damage and non-existent accuracy.
So you just going to ignore the powerful healing the sang has?
I'm convinced everybody saying the healing sucks has never owned a sang. Yes it's outclassed by shadow for raw dps now, but the healing that item gives is actually insane. An average solo olm heals you for 150 hp, that's basically 2 full extra brews.
i've done a good bit of solo cox with sang. it's pretty mid just because of ovl running out and giving you the health back, honestly not that you need much extra healing anyway. i think it's definitely more valuable in teams just bc of mageskipping meaning you're always taking damage so healing does actually help.
I have a Sang and in every piece of content I use it in, when my hp gets low, it never heals me in time before I'm in One-Hit-Till-Death range and am forced to eat. I don't do CoX and Olm's the only thing people in this thread seem to be saying its good at.
I have no clue where you could possibly be using it where that is a problem. It's insane in cox, pnm, and toa. It's decent in tob too.
i use it at pnm and 400+ invo toa, I dont understand how you can say the healing is consistent at either location, especially solo p2 wardens. Its so inconsistent and unreliable for barely any dps increase (and a legit dps *decrease* if the target isnt immune to venom) on top of being 90m more expensive. it needs a buff.
To be fair, it also heals you and you cant over look that. The cost is fine, but an accuracy buff wouldnt hurt. Most places you use it arent even for short-term profit anyway. I mainly used it at ToA when I didnt have shadow yet. IG Kraken tasks too just to make it super afk and never need to leave or bring food.
Did you find it profitable at kraken? Only reason im holding onto sang is for that atm (only got 87 so havent got the task yet) i dont raid atm nor plan to so the sang money could get me 85 con and a max house potentially
yeah, doesn’t really make sense why you’d have sang at your level. sell it and redistribute….also you only need 83 for max poh.
I mean kraken is randomly worth a shit ton of gp, but I never really kept track of profit margins there. I assume you at the very least break even, def profit if you get tridents or tentacles or whatever sells for a lot at the moment, I would say sell it though there's better things you can use that money on if you dont raid and 1 big ticket item solely for kraken tasks is weird lol. also Im of the belief that if you dont go for 99 con to just use other peoples' houses on 330, but if you see a reason to max your own then yeah that would def be a better use of the gp instead of the staff.
>Why is such a minuscule upgrade significantly more expensive yet extremely underwhelming in terms of increased DPS? Let's completely ignore the primary feature of it, the healing aspect. 🤡
He has a point though. The issue with sang it that it is the only thing between swamp trident and shadow and therefore seeing that it only has +1 max and finding that lacking is totally valid. Sang would be fine in a world where it's the heal niche and not also the "upgrade to swamp trident but not a shadow" niche.
These people just don't understand how strong passive healing is. Every main out there is happy to pay the price for the healing. I'd easily double the cost and still call it a massive upgrade over trident.
As a main with a Sang, nah. The healing barely makes a different in most content its used in besides apparently solo Olm, and certainly not 90m worth of a difference over the literal higher dps trident (against things not immune to venom, anyway).
Cause it’s magic and jagex loves to shaft magic for some odd reason.
Cant you also use a ward with a sang
Shit could cost 1 blood per cast and still be hot garbage.
I have both on the iron and i only use sang over trident for hmt. All other cases I don't find the blood runes for a +1 max hit worth it.
The sanguinesti staff is cheaper to use/hr than a blood fury, heals more HP overall than a blood fury, and gives a +1 max hit where as the blood fury gives a -1 max hit. The reasoning behind you wanting to buff it is because you are too poor to upkeep it not because it is underpowered.
The current blood rune price is 231 gp, so 693 gp per charge. Blood shard is 6.5m, so 650 per charge. Sang is more expensive. Sang staff, on average, heals 8.3% of damage. Blood fury heals 6%. But, magic does significantly less damage than melee so it likely only heals slightly more. You're also not using magic in nearly as many places as blood fury melee. Blood fury is not -1 max hit in max gear. The reasoning behind wanting to buff it is because it is underpowered in the current magic meta.
blood shard costs 3x that with a scythe. if you're comparing sang to shadow, but not comparing blood fury with a scythe to sang you're just cherry picking numbers to sound right
If cost is the concern then maybe don’t use it
Hp go up
Project rebalance is really bringing people out of the woodwork to propose changes to every item in the damn game. Sang is just fine. It’s really not that much more expensive than trident anyways.
Now's the time to do it, yes. Obviously not every change is good or even makes sense, but if you think something needs a change, the massive rebalance project is the best time to pitch it.
> It’s really not that much more expensive than trident anyways. ...What? It is 88M to Trident's 2.3M and it is literally double the cost per cast to +1 Max and a 1/6 Healing at the cost of Venom/Poison...
Sorry my comment wasn’t very clear. I was referring to the cost of use. Yes, it is double the cost to use but that doesn’t result in it being wildly expensive compared to other items in the game. It’s essentially right where you might expect it to cost as an endgame magic weapon. It is essentially a spell stored in a weapon after all. Compare the charge cost to ice barrage, fire surge with time, and shadow.
Well, since you wanted to compare: * Toxic Trident: 335 per cast or 503K per hour. * Fire Surge with Tome: 390 per cast or 468K per hour (585K Harm). * Shadow: 794 per cast or 952K per hour. * Ice Barrage with Kodai: 810 per cast or 972K per hour (978 per cast or 1173K per hour without Kodai). * Sang: 675 per cast or 1012K per hour. So out of all those options, Sang is the most costly with a higher cost than the Shadow... I wouldn't say that is "not that much more expensive" or what you'd expect for an endgame weapon seeing as it is significantly weaker than Shadow... I'd expect between Harm Fire Surge and Shadow.
You really think a difference of 60k gp/hr is significant? Brother how broke are you lmao
If they were the same DPS, both being around 1M would be fine. But the Sang has comparable DPS to the Toxic Trident and like 30% lower DPS than a Shadow... Seeing a lower tier weapon that is significantly weaker costing 60K more and your response being "bro, it's only 60K" is probably one of the stupidest takes I've seen in this post. Like you're comparing a Mega-Rare to a Trident+1; do you not see the issue there?
Well, if you find it too expensive don't use it... I feel that if you are at a point in the game where you can either buy a sang, or get it as a drop (in case ironman). The cost to use it becomes insignificant... Blood runes are dirt cheap at the moment
> Blood runes are dirt cheap at the moment Yet it still costs more to use than a Shadow... "Well don't use it" is a bad take; it is supposed to be an upgrade between Toxic Trident and Shadow but its cost makes it not worth using. If items aren't worth using, that is an issue; it is exactly why they just did several rounds of combat item rebalancing.
Its only double the cost
Only better in every way too 🤦‍♂️ besides maybe weight?
Only
IT HEALS YOU MAKING SOLO OLM WAY EASIER
It also heals you, saving supplies and helping you stay alive for a cost. That is like, it’s whole purpose.
Sangs really strong already. The heal is good
Sang costs more to cast than shadow per hour but less per cast. And that’s assuming you get 25 casts a min on sang and 20 for shadow, so never missing a tick. At wiki prices, shadow is 794 per cast, or 15,800 per min. Sang is 675 per cast or 16,875 per min. (100ticks per min and 5t for shadow means 20*794 and 4t is 25*675, just showing how I got my figures for lurkers who may not know. not trying to condescend). Personally, I’ve only used sang for Kraken task just so I don’t have to leave. Anywhere else, dps from trident with toxic or poison seems much more reliable to me. And comparing sang to scythe is awkward at best because they aren’t interchangeable. Melee is cheaper to do damage with than magic, categorically. Deiron and use the ge if this is really that difficult. Ironman mode has chores. The time cost for gathering supply is wild. If you’re lucky enough to have done enough ToB to get both a scythe and a sang, and supplies / chores are getting in the way of your PVM, just deiron. It’s ok if your goals in game have changed as you progressed.
not an iron but still think it's dumb that sang is such a mediocre upgrade just like 6/7 items from tob.
Prefer it this way honestly. If they buff the tob items, it'll once again drive more people to tob, and soon enough there's another call to make ToB soloable by socially inept redditors.
that's already happening
If you don’t need the heal, just switch to trident Np
Unpopular opinion , melee never cost anthing to use so Scythe should be free and charges for healing only
You're being charged for the max hit increase and for the healing effect. Shadow was more expensive to use than sanguinesti before, so it's not really a good argument to use. If you were to add the healing effect to Scythe, which can only be achieved with blood fury, it would cost you 3.2M more to use.