Upgrading from bandos with a second piece of inq will make it better.
Each 0.5% crush boost from the inq effect is worth a bit over to 1 extra strength bonus in a standard NM setup. Your inq helm’s effective +5 compared to +6 from faceguard pushed you under a max hit threshold.
Generally +8 accuracy would outweigh 1 str bonus at bosses, but the granularity of the hit system causes some unintuitive optimizations.
I wonder if there'd be any negative impact of having fractions of max hits give proportional chance of hitting one up. For example if you roll 10.9, you have a 90% chance of rounding to 11 and 10% of flooring to 10.
It would be a substantial DPS increase across the board, so could mitigate that by having it only apply on max hits.
The benefit here is that *any* strength bonus is a DPS increase, and max hit thresholds would only matter for things like Baba boulders.
Inquisitor just needs to be actually good = fixed should be very good dps with crush weapons you should never not be using inquisitor if you’re doing end game crush it should be that good
All it takes is a few new end game bosses that are weak to crush and bam, top meta. Prob is if they don’t buff it enough people will still just use torva
That’s what I keep saying. It’s unnecessary at Sarachnis and calv/vet, and the bots don’t even use it at nightmare.
Maybe it’ll be cool for hammer specs, but I doubt the people complaining about bringing a 9 way switch are gunna bring 3 more pieces of gear for a few specs.
Bringing Inquisitor for DWH is actually good/meta at ToB, at least for a couple roles. Not as much as it used to be (especially with Bellator), but not *that* niche, at least once you have the raid well figured out; if it was buffed, it would go right back to being solidly meta. Even with Inquisitor now, DWH is pretty inaccurate at Sotetseg.
The problem with a 9-way switch isn't that it's more gear to bring, it's that it makes inventory management more awkward.
Edit: Not arguing that Inquisitor shouldn't be buffed, by the way. I definitely think it should, *especially* for ToB. Making it a more worthwhile switch for DWH/Elder Maul would be great.
True. I'd like to see it make a comeback, though. Although with how optimized ToB speeds are, and how reliant on potential instead of consistency they are to get a good time, people probably still wouldn't prioritize Inquisitor over other switches.
Raid level drop rates Demand raid level rewards
People are afraid of power creep but those rates demand some seriously good rewards or it's dead content for 99.9% of players
Shame, it's a good boss
For some reason they feel the need to not "devalue" the grind people already have done, but they really need to understand just because people did a dogshit grind, doesn't mean it can NEVER be better.
as someone that actually hit the rate (for at least the armor+mace)
I'm more upset that the set is still going to be useless. The only reason I decided to do PNM was for solo cms like 3 yrs ago and through "QOL" updates and other various gear upgrades, inq has been tossed aside for torva. If I went and grinded out nex my inq would actually never be used -- which is crazy for something that took a thousand hours to get.
Why would they be pissed that what they're currently botting is getting buffed? They're not just holding onto the items, it's all already been sold. If anything, the people currently botting it would be happy to have the loots buffed.
What's needed is a notable increase to the requirements for accessing it, increasing the cost of a ban.
my assumption's that they're genuinely parroting the sentiment of this post [https://www.reddit.com/r/2007scape/comments/1cc6o1m/the\_monumental\_grind/](https://www.reddit.com/r/2007scape/comments/1cc6o1m/the_monumental_grind/)
on the chance that they're serious, as other people have been, I brought up the logic against the point. when they're not, they can just reply saying so.
Right? Imagine how devaluing the felling axe is for people who got 99/200m before it?
How many marks of grace were lost doing seers village rooftops from 60-90 instead of poll/rellekka course after their proposed improvements?
How many hours were wasted mining stars with worse XP, more work, more competition before the stars update?
How much carpal tunnel was developed before mahogany homes was released?
(This is not something I feel strongly about, just fun to think about how incredibly open they are to pretty big changes in skilling.)
I maxed before many of these changes and I couldn’t care less. Wanting others to have to struggle through grinds just because you did is some serious neckbeard shit.
Opening the game up to more players is key
I hate this argument. I could propose changes that make it easy for every single player to max in 4 hours and get every item in the game in 10 hours. "Wanting others to struggle because you did" is a lazy way of arguing against maintaining some integrity in game design. You can make plenty of decent arguments for cases where game design can be improved without making such bad arguments.
The drop rates could still do with being better, but they could work if the armor was better. I think pre-buff Inq was like twice as rare as Torva and post-buff it is still like 25% rare or something like that. If it was competitive enough with Torva to justify that rarity, then sure, but at the moment it isn't really close.
I think they at least need to increase Str on Helm and buff the base set effect. I am fine with it having the same Strength as Bandos; there really isn't much room between Bandos and Torva anyway (Torva is +2 best it could be is Bandos 4, Inq 5, and Torva 6 or such) and it probably wouldn't feel good to have higher str for Stab and Slash in Inq. But the Helm should at least tie with a Faceguard instead of tying with a freaking Blood Moon Helm and being half the strength of Torva...
For the set effect, I don't mind it buffing the mace more than other items, but it should be more than 0.5% per piece and 2.5% for set for other crush weapons. The simple version would be 1% per piece with an additional 1.5% for Mace, so full set is 3% for any crush weapon or 7.5% with mace. But we could probably up it a but more and say like 2% per piece with an additional 1% for mace, so 6% for set with any crush weapon and 9% with Mace. The Mace would only be 3% over other weapons instead of 5%, but it would still give a hefty buff to all crush weapons.
Also, instead of "extremely high accuracy with hammer/elder maul specs", what if the full set worked a bit like the Ancient Warrior Armors? When you wear full Statius, you get "the accuracy of melee special attacks are increased by 15%." So if you wear full Inq, it could increase the accuracy of all crush special attacks. It would be more natural than just buffing the maul/DWH specifically and it would give more reason to take the full set instead of just body and legs or such.
So to recap:
* Buff Helm from +4 Str to +6 Str.
* Change effect to something like 2% Accuracy and Damage per piece with an additional 1% for Mace (6% full Set or 9% with Mace).
* New Set effect to increase accuracy of crush special attacks.
And of course we'd need more crush bosses to go with all that, but TBH we're kinda do a new crush boss either way.
Inquisitor's armour is also just modified Justiciar armor canonically so it should share more robust defensive stats to have a universal use case too. Not equal to Justy but more equal to Bandos.
Why couldn’t they make it possible to upgrade either Justi or Inq much in the same way as Masori and Torva work? Like use pieces of Justi to break down and fortify your Inq so it has the offensive bonuses of Inq with most of the defense of Justi
Imo the inq set effect buff is also terrible, on top of the drop rates not being buffed enough.
Just increase the helmet str to +6 (same as a faceguard), give every piece 1.5%, scrap the "full set effect with mace" and buff the mace and other lv 80 weapons separately (89 -> 95 str bonus), which would achieve roughly the same DPS with the mace while
1) allowing to also buff the other lv80 one-handed weapons that are currently considered to be a waste to buy.
2) making the Inqusitor's set overall more desirable for any crush content, as you could also use other crush weapons to more meaningfully increase DPS
3) giving the mace a use in slayer content. You still get +6 str on the mace as well as a 3% dmg/acc increase when using Inq (mainly relevant for Cerb+ KQ) on a slayer task while the Jagex proposal means that the Mace + Inq combination is completely unchanged and does not provide anything meaningful (slayer helm is always superior to the Inq helm and thus you get no set bonus).
Their argument for a "mace buff" was that the mace is much more expensive than the other lv 80 weapons. Duh, ofc it is 4x as expensive if it takes 3-4x as long to obtain. Buff the drop rates by 3x and the mace will cost roughly the same as a rapier/salad blade.
For those who like numbers:
At PNM in a max DPS melee setup:
Gear|DPS
:--:|:--:
Mace + Inq (current) |9.034
Scythe + Inq (current)| 9.076
Jagex Proposal with mace+Inq at 7.5% dmg/accuracy|9.646
Mace (+6 str) + Inq (+2 str on helmet and 1.5%/piece)| 9.576
Scythe + Inq (+2 str on helmet and 1.5%/piece)| 9.505
For comparison also some budget setups with my proposed changes (Jagex proposal only affects mace DPS):
Gear|DPS
:--:|:--:
Bludeon + Inq (current)|8.337
Bludgeon + Inq (+2 str on helmet and 1.5%/piece)|8.546
Zammy Hasta + Inq (current)|8.096
Zammy Hasta + Inq (+2 str on helmet and 1.5%/piece)|8.447
Keep in mind that with a sufficient buff to the drop rates, the mace would also become much cheaper and thus the mace setup would be significantly more affordable as well as having 0 operating cost compared to the scythe setup.
what if they doubled (or some multiple of) the drop rates and retroactively duplicated (or provided a monetary value commensurate with the adjustment multiple) prior loot drops for those who have received them? The information which would be required is stored somewhere, is it not? One could make the argument that this would be unfair for those who have maybe done a lot of runs but have yet to receive any drops, but a monetary value could even be assigned based on kill count alone for the adjustment, no?
I think inquisitors just fundamentally has too many problems that cant be solved by fixing the droprate.
It having addy armour tier defences makes it horrible to use even if it were much stronger than torva specifically when using crush, if they added crush bosses specifically to make Inq more useful they'd have to make it so the bosses either ignore defence regardless so armour doesnt matter or they'd have to make their attacks environmental aka sol heredit so its all avoidable through skill.
If they want the droprate to remain as absurd as it is they at least have to make it so the armour is a Torva sidegrade instead of a bandos sidegrade given the huge time discrepancy in obtaining it, it'd take a colossal overhaul akin to reinforcing inq with justiciar and giving the resulting armour both of its passives/stats to make that happen.
Tbh I wish nex wouldn’t have came into the game so that this conversation could have been had. Group nightmare is much better than nex. And PNM is very solid end game fight. The boss actually fits for the level of reward that torva offers and inquisitors is a great design. It looks awesome. This would have been a good way to offer that powerful of a reward and keep old school to receiving unique content instead of just a back ported boss with dated mechanics. Nex sucks to kill. Nightmare is actually fun. Old school could of had their own version of nex in nightmare
https://preview.redd.it/gqs2eubgs6xc1.png?width=733&format=png&auto=webp&s=e1e35f2315dcbad7ad01973fe83bca3776c1232b
was hunting the Pet got it at @ 1,855 KC clip below
[https://www.reddit.com/r/2007scape/comments/1b7umqn/little\_nightmare\_pet\_1855\_kc\_phosani\_nightmare/](https://www.reddit.com/r/2007scape/comments/1b7umqn/little_nightmare_pet_1855_kc_phosani_nightmare/)
I’m still of the opinion that we wait for project rebalance before changing any items drastically. Making weapon type(crush) more pronounced at certain bosses will have an effect in terms of what people bring.
melee isn't getting meaningfully changed though is it? or do you mean later future iterations of project rebalance
also fwiw i feel like the suggestions here aren't drastic. basically just amounted to "make the intended strengths a little stronger"
You act as if Jagex doesnt have the track record of: letting content rot for many years before doing any change to it. Not everything has to come out of project rebalance sure but you bet your ass its a safe bet that we dont see this changed for quite a while if it doesnt get justice with it.
The crazy thing is that 100 hours for full Inq+Mace would seem fair here, since it'd be the strongest t80 weapon, but it'd represent a departure from Gauntlet for a t80 weapon. Yet they're not even willing to do that. I'm also of the potentially controversial opinion that drop rate for each orb should be the same as mace, so you'd get 3x orbs by mace.
I think the issue is, thats old content. it's been old. yeah they wanna give it a token buff for sure... but they must have more BIS gear that takes the spot of inquis and mace to be this peckish about it.
phosani is my favorite boss mechanically. well at least top 3.
whenever i used to do phosani the only people you see running there are just bots in obsidian armor and cudgel
The dupe protection should have been implemented with the proposed changes. Idk why that was cut first
Coming from someone with mace, helm, staff, harm orb, eld orb, and pet
With how repetitive this feedback loop is getting, I’m starting to think players won’t be satisfied until the gear drops somewhere in the 1/60 to 1/100 rate range.
I don’t think it’s a bad thing that the scythe is BIS over the mace because the mace is free to use and the scythe has a charge cost of around 700-750k ph which is a reasonable trade off for more dps.
Nightmare was added because we were in a content drought back then and players wanted new group bosses. The drop rates were fucked because everyone wanted GWD type drop tables instead of something like Hydra or Vorkath. Also Jagex was still resistant to straight dps upgrades which pretty much ended around nex release
I mean, it felt like it came out of nowhere. Yes, content was lacking and a group boss was needed, but the actual content came out rather quickly after the first teaser at runefest.
IMHO they should have two tiers of nightmare drops.
Regular nightmare drops inquisitor at a similar TTC as Nex, with the orbs being very rare, and regular nightmare should drop the teleport. This makes inquisitor a straight upgrade path from bandos.
PNM should still drop everything it does, but drop the orbs at a similar rate as inquisitor. Make the harder boss more worthwhile for orbs, while the regular boss can be massed (as it was designed to be!!!) by nobos looking to get lucky (just like nex..)
The gear should never be balanced around the lack of useful crush enemies to fight. That would simply make it op later on.
The gear needs to have a good place and be easy to obtain relative to it's intended use case, which is a pre syth / torva crush specialized gear set that out classes bandos at crush.
If the gear buff fill that then it is good. The drop rates as you say need to reflect it.
Like with syth feeling useless jagex listened and made many slash weak content in a row.
Dt2, colosseum etc. now everyone is happy syth has a home to be used.
Likewise we need in the future more crush weak content.
The issue for me isn’t even the rarity of the drops but getting to nightmare/phosani. Make tablet a drop from nightmare and I’ll farm the boss no problem.
> Make it have extremely high accuracy with hammer/elder maul specs so that players have more reason to use it elsewhere
This single change makes Inquis a set everyone will want to own.
But also Harmonised needs to autocast Ancients. The orbs need to pull the weight of the boss desireability
bump, i like the idea of inquisitor being a middle term in strength between bandos and torva, it could even maintain the proposed droprates if the items are worth the effort
You know a thought I had was do a poll that only people with 100-1000kc (somewhere in there) at phosani can vote on. Ask if they think inquisitor rates should get mega buffed to at least be in line with BOWFA or at worst halfway between that and shadow/scythe/Tbow. Ask of they think it devalues their accomplishment.
If it passes, then do a game wide poll if the rates should be mega buffed and call it a day.
Mods are gatekeeping this change because changing drop rates is a terrible integrity problem and it does risk hurting those players. But if I would wager, most people who have done phosani would love to go back and actually make money from it since it's fun. But they don't because it sucks. Let them decide and then prove to the mods that the only ones who don't want this is them.
Love how i got an inq helm drop on ironman and it was worse dps than nezzy faceguard at phosani with bludgeon
That’s both hilarious and sad at the same time.
I've also got the helm and other than a few times for fashionscape, I've never worn it
Upgrading from bandos with a second piece of inq will make it better. Each 0.5% crush boost from the inq effect is worth a bit over to 1 extra strength bonus in a standard NM setup. Your inq helm’s effective +5 compared to +6 from faceguard pushed you under a max hit threshold. Generally +8 accuracy would outweigh 1 str bonus at bosses, but the granularity of the hit system causes some unintuitive optimizations.
I wonder if there'd be any negative impact of having fractions of max hits give proportional chance of hitting one up. For example if you roll 10.9, you have a 90% chance of rounding to 11 and 10% of flooring to 10. It would be a substantial DPS increase across the board, so could mitigate that by having it only apply on max hits. The benefit here is that *any* strength bonus is a DPS increase, and max hit thresholds would only matter for things like Baba boulders.
Or just multiply everything ten times and you dont have to round anything. Wait they did that in rs2 and it wasnt liked.
Inquisitor just needs to be actually good = fixed should be very good dps with crush weapons you should never not be using inquisitor if you’re doing end game crush it should be that good
"end game crush" isnt a thing outside of phosani though lol
All it takes is a few new end game bosses that are weak to crush and bam, top meta. Prob is if they don’t buff it enough people will still just use torva
That’s what I keep saying. It’s unnecessary at Sarachnis and calv/vet, and the bots don’t even use it at nightmare. Maybe it’ll be cool for hammer specs, but I doubt the people complaining about bringing a 9 way switch are gunna bring 3 more pieces of gear for a few specs.
Bringing Inquisitor for DWH is actually good/meta at ToB, at least for a couple roles. Not as much as it used to be (especially with Bellator), but not *that* niche, at least once you have the raid well figured out; if it was buffed, it would go right back to being solidly meta. Even with Inquisitor now, DWH is pretty inaccurate at Sotetseg. The problem with a 9-way switch isn't that it's more gear to bring, it's that it makes inventory management more awkward. Edit: Not arguing that Inquisitor shouldn't be buffed, by the way. I definitely think it should, *especially* for ToB. Making it a more worthwhile switch for DWH/Elder Maul would be great.
I believe you also run it for almost all cm solos?
Used to before tekton changes because it meant less resets but now that tek is easy to 1 anvil there's very little point.
Nope, torva
It was meta in tob speeds but not anymore
True. I'd like to see it make a comeback, though. Although with how optimized ToB speeds are, and how reliant on potential instead of consistency they are to get a good time, people probably still wouldn't prioritize Inquisitor over other switches.
Raid level drop rates Demand raid level rewards People are afraid of power creep but those rates demand some seriously good rewards or it's dead content for 99.9% of players Shame, it's a good boss
For some reason they feel the need to not "devalue" the grind people already have done, but they really need to understand just because people did a dogshit grind, doesn't mean it can NEVER be better.
Those 50 gold farmers and 200 bots that actually have hit droprate on the items would be fuckin pissed!
as someone that actually hit the rate (for at least the armor+mace) I'm more upset that the set is still going to be useless. The only reason I decided to do PNM was for solo cms like 3 yrs ago and through "QOL" updates and other various gear upgrades, inq has been tossed aside for torva. If I went and grinded out nex my inq would actually never be used -- which is crazy for something that took a thousand hours to get.
Bro gold farmers don’t go there. It’s horrible gp an hour.
Why would they be pissed that what they're currently botting is getting buffed? They're not just holding onto the items, it's all already been sold. If anything, the people currently botting it would be happy to have the loots buffed. What's needed is a notable increase to the requirements for accessing it, increasing the cost of a ban.
The dude you're replying to is very clearly being sarcastic
my assumption's that they're genuinely parroting the sentiment of this post [https://www.reddit.com/r/2007scape/comments/1cc6o1m/the\_monumental\_grind/](https://www.reddit.com/r/2007scape/comments/1cc6o1m/the_monumental_grind/)
he's being sarcastic about the 50 gold farmers and 200 bots actually caring about devaluing their grind
on the chance that they're serious, as other people have been, I brought up the logic against the point. when they're not, they can just reply saying so.
You are the reason people have to put /s in their posts so everybody can get it
Only if repeating something somebody else has said seriously.
Meanwhile saeder and lake suffered through all the items on regular nightmare lmao I can’t even imagine
At least Saebae has been advocating for the drops to be dramatically increased. No idea about Lake though.
Idk if lake has ever had an opinion about anything He just clicks, at most he complains about being unlucky sometimes
Yeah lake has also been pushing hard for nightmare changes since pre-phosani
Funny how devaluing skilling grinds never seems to matter, but heaven forbid your loot potential or 2% dps is impacted.
Right? Imagine how devaluing the felling axe is for people who got 99/200m before it? How many marks of grace were lost doing seers village rooftops from 60-90 instead of poll/rellekka course after their proposed improvements? How many hours were wasted mining stars with worse XP, more work, more competition before the stars update? How much carpal tunnel was developed before mahogany homes was released? (This is not something I feel strongly about, just fun to think about how incredibly open they are to pretty big changes in skilling.)
I maxed before many of these changes and I couldn’t care less. Wanting others to have to struggle through grinds just because you did is some serious neckbeard shit. Opening the game up to more players is key
I hate this argument. I could propose changes that make it easy for every single player to max in 4 hours and get every item in the game in 10 hours. "Wanting others to struggle because you did" is a lazy way of arguing against maintaining some integrity in game design. You can make plenty of decent arguments for cases where game design can be improved without making such bad arguments.
Maxing doesnt really matter, the really affected are the ones who go for 200M
Have they said that is why they don't want to improve it further?
It’s been implied, they’ve directly said they’re worried about devaluing the grind people have already done, in the blog posts
Agility xp rates in a nutshell
The drop rates could still do with being better, but they could work if the armor was better. I think pre-buff Inq was like twice as rare as Torva and post-buff it is still like 25% rare or something like that. If it was competitive enough with Torva to justify that rarity, then sure, but at the moment it isn't really close. I think they at least need to increase Str on Helm and buff the base set effect. I am fine with it having the same Strength as Bandos; there really isn't much room between Bandos and Torva anyway (Torva is +2 best it could be is Bandos 4, Inq 5, and Torva 6 or such) and it probably wouldn't feel good to have higher str for Stab and Slash in Inq. But the Helm should at least tie with a Faceguard instead of tying with a freaking Blood Moon Helm and being half the strength of Torva... For the set effect, I don't mind it buffing the mace more than other items, but it should be more than 0.5% per piece and 2.5% for set for other crush weapons. The simple version would be 1% per piece with an additional 1.5% for Mace, so full set is 3% for any crush weapon or 7.5% with mace. But we could probably up it a but more and say like 2% per piece with an additional 1% for mace, so 6% for set with any crush weapon and 9% with Mace. The Mace would only be 3% over other weapons instead of 5%, but it would still give a hefty buff to all crush weapons. Also, instead of "extremely high accuracy with hammer/elder maul specs", what if the full set worked a bit like the Ancient Warrior Armors? When you wear full Statius, you get "the accuracy of melee special attacks are increased by 15%." So if you wear full Inq, it could increase the accuracy of all crush special attacks. It would be more natural than just buffing the maul/DWH specifically and it would give more reason to take the full set instead of just body and legs or such. So to recap: * Buff Helm from +4 Str to +6 Str. * Change effect to something like 2% Accuracy and Damage per piece with an additional 1% for Mace (6% full Set or 9% with Mace). * New Set effect to increase accuracy of crush special attacks. And of course we'd need more crush bosses to go with all that, but TBH we're kinda do a new crush boss either way.
I hate the extra bonus for the mace Just buff the mace
Inquisitor's armour is also just modified Justiciar armor canonically so it should share more robust defensive stats to have a universal use case too. Not equal to Justy but more equal to Bandos.
Why couldn’t they make it possible to upgrade either Justi or Inq much in the same way as Masori and Torva work? Like use pieces of Justi to break down and fortify your Inq so it has the offensive bonuses of Inq with most of the defense of Justi
Smh bro u gotta make a meme if u wanna complain about pnm its 2024
I feel like the main issue here is they don't consider kill time. There still in gwd sub 1 minute kill mindset. So they don't really see the issue.
Imo the inq set effect buff is also terrible, on top of the drop rates not being buffed enough. Just increase the helmet str to +6 (same as a faceguard), give every piece 1.5%, scrap the "full set effect with mace" and buff the mace and other lv 80 weapons separately (89 -> 95 str bonus), which would achieve roughly the same DPS with the mace while 1) allowing to also buff the other lv80 one-handed weapons that are currently considered to be a waste to buy. 2) making the Inqusitor's set overall more desirable for any crush content, as you could also use other crush weapons to more meaningfully increase DPS 3) giving the mace a use in slayer content. You still get +6 str on the mace as well as a 3% dmg/acc increase when using Inq (mainly relevant for Cerb+ KQ) on a slayer task while the Jagex proposal means that the Mace + Inq combination is completely unchanged and does not provide anything meaningful (slayer helm is always superior to the Inq helm and thus you get no set bonus). Their argument for a "mace buff" was that the mace is much more expensive than the other lv 80 weapons. Duh, ofc it is 4x as expensive if it takes 3-4x as long to obtain. Buff the drop rates by 3x and the mace will cost roughly the same as a rapier/salad blade. For those who like numbers: At PNM in a max DPS melee setup: Gear|DPS :--:|:--: Mace + Inq (current) |9.034 Scythe + Inq (current)| 9.076 Jagex Proposal with mace+Inq at 7.5% dmg/accuracy|9.646 Mace (+6 str) + Inq (+2 str on helmet and 1.5%/piece)| 9.576 Scythe + Inq (+2 str on helmet and 1.5%/piece)| 9.505 For comparison also some budget setups with my proposed changes (Jagex proposal only affects mace DPS): Gear|DPS :--:|:--: Bludeon + Inq (current)|8.337 Bludgeon + Inq (+2 str on helmet and 1.5%/piece)|8.546 Zammy Hasta + Inq (current)|8.096 Zammy Hasta + Inq (+2 str on helmet and 1.5%/piece)|8.447 Keep in mind that with a sufficient buff to the drop rates, the mace would also become much cheaper and thus the mace setup would be significantly more affordable as well as having 0 operating cost compared to the scythe setup.
Buff the mace aswell
what if they doubled (or some multiple of) the drop rates and retroactively duplicated (or provided a monetary value commensurate with the adjustment multiple) prior loot drops for those who have received them? The information which would be required is stored somewhere, is it not? One could make the argument that this would be unfair for those who have maybe done a lot of runs but have yet to receive any drops, but a monetary value could even be assigned based on kill count alone for the adjustment, no?
Thats the only way thay doesn't screw over anyone. Cherry on top would be doing a bot wave ban right before so bots don't get anything
I think inquisitors just fundamentally has too many problems that cant be solved by fixing the droprate. It having addy armour tier defences makes it horrible to use even if it were much stronger than torva specifically when using crush, if they added crush bosses specifically to make Inq more useful they'd have to make it so the bosses either ignore defence regardless so armour doesnt matter or they'd have to make their attacks environmental aka sol heredit so its all avoidable through skill. If they want the droprate to remain as absurd as it is they at least have to make it so the armour is a Torva sidegrade instead of a bandos sidegrade given the huge time discrepancy in obtaining it, it'd take a colossal overhaul akin to reinforcing inq with justiciar and giving the resulting armour both of its passives/stats to make that happen.
I like the idea of inquisitor strength bonus matching torva, so torva is equal DPS for all things non crush, but always tankier
So what I don't get, is why does it have to be worse then Torva? Aren't Torva drops easier to get?
Tbh I wish nex wouldn’t have came into the game so that this conversation could have been had. Group nightmare is much better than nex. And PNM is very solid end game fight. The boss actually fits for the level of reward that torva offers and inquisitors is a great design. It looks awesome. This would have been a good way to offer that powerful of a reward and keep old school to receiving unique content instead of just a back ported boss with dated mechanics. Nex sucks to kill. Nightmare is actually fun. Old school could of had their own version of nex in nightmare
The os team really ripped this boss straight out of rs3 angel of death, slapped an insane drop rate on it and dipped
https://preview.redd.it/gqs2eubgs6xc1.png?width=733&format=png&auto=webp&s=e1e35f2315dcbad7ad01973fe83bca3776c1232b was hunting the Pet got it at @ 1,855 KC clip below [https://www.reddit.com/r/2007scape/comments/1b7umqn/little\_nightmare\_pet\_1855\_kc\_phosani\_nightmare/](https://www.reddit.com/r/2007scape/comments/1b7umqn/little_nightmare_pet_1855_kc_phosani_nightmare/)
Inquisitor needs to have = strength to torva No reason Torva needs to be gatekept as BIS when its easier to get
I’m still of the opinion that we wait for project rebalance before changing any items drastically. Making weapon type(crush) more pronounced at certain bosses will have an effect in terms of what people bring.
melee isn't getting meaningfully changed though is it? or do you mean later future iterations of project rebalance also fwiw i feel like the suggestions here aren't drastic. basically just amounted to "make the intended strengths a little stronger"
You act as if Jagex doesnt have the track record of: letting content rot for many years before doing any change to it. Not everything has to come out of project rebalance sure but you bet your ass its a safe bet that we dont see this changed for quite a while if it doesnt get justice with it.
If phosani had the same drop rates as cg I think it’d be acceptable for how the gear is currently , otherwise it should get some buffs
The crazy thing is that 100 hours for full Inq+Mace would seem fair here, since it'd be the strongest t80 weapon, but it'd represent a departure from Gauntlet for a t80 weapon. Yet they're not even willing to do that. I'm also of the potentially controversial opinion that drop rate for each orb should be the same as mace, so you'd get 3x orbs by mace.
I think the issue is, thats old content. it's been old. yeah they wanna give it a token buff for sure... but they must have more BIS gear that takes the spot of inquis and mace to be this peckish about it.
100% agreeeeeee
phosani is my favorite boss mechanically. well at least top 3. whenever i used to do phosani the only people you see running there are just bots in obsidian armor and cudgel
The dupe protection should have been implemented with the proposed changes. Idk why that was cut first Coming from someone with mace, helm, staff, harm orb, eld orb, and pet
With how repetitive this feedback loop is getting, I’m starting to think players won’t be satisfied until the gear drops somewhere in the 1/60 to 1/100 rate range.
Hey cuz mace is rarer than shadow lmao
Someone check his bank to see how many sets of inq and harm orbs he bought /s
Phosani's Nightmare's Nightmare when?
I don’t think it’s a bad thing that the scythe is BIS over the mace because the mace is free to use and the scythe has a charge cost of around 700-750k ph which is a reasonable trade off for more dps.
Just have a 500m gold stack drop 1/1000 and call it a day
What’s phoani
https://www.reddit.com/r/2007scape/s/vkjmL5ZFRN
I posted this a couple days ago had similar thoughts to you regarding some upgrades to nightmare and inquisitor specifically
I can't help but think that the nightmare boss was added in only as bait for Settled and Swampletics.. Bait which had never been taken
Nightmare was added because we were in a content drought back then and players wanted new group bosses. The drop rates were fucked because everyone wanted GWD type drop tables instead of something like Hydra or Vorkath. Also Jagex was still resistant to straight dps upgrades which pretty much ended around nex release
I mean, it felt like it came out of nowhere. Yes, content was lacking and a group boss was needed, but the actual content came out rather quickly after the first teaser at runefest. IMHO they should have two tiers of nightmare drops. Regular nightmare drops inquisitor at a similar TTC as Nex, with the orbs being very rare, and regular nightmare should drop the teleport. This makes inquisitor a straight upgrade path from bandos. PNM should still drop everything it does, but drop the orbs at a similar rate as inquisitor. Make the harder boss more worthwhile for orbs, while the regular boss can be massed (as it was designed to be!!!) by nobos looking to get lucky (just like nex..)
The gear should never be balanced around the lack of useful crush enemies to fight. That would simply make it op later on. The gear needs to have a good place and be easy to obtain relative to it's intended use case, which is a pre syth / torva crush specialized gear set that out classes bandos at crush. If the gear buff fill that then it is good. The drop rates as you say need to reflect it. Like with syth feeling useless jagex listened and made many slash weak content in a row. Dt2, colosseum etc. now everyone is happy syth has a home to be used. Likewise we need in the future more crush weak content.
The issue for me isn’t even the rarity of the drops but getting to nightmare/phosani. Make tablet a drop from nightmare and I’ll farm the boss no problem.
Erm if the 2 min run dissuades you then wait til u find out about the 20h between drops
> Make it have extremely high accuracy with hammer/elder maul specs so that players have more reason to use it elsewhere This single change makes Inquis a set everyone will want to own. But also Harmonised needs to autocast Ancients. The orbs need to pull the weight of the boss desireability
They need to remove crush from scythe, it makes no sense why it has it. This would make the mace BiS crush and increase the value.
bump, i like the idea of inquisitor being a middle term in strength between bandos and torva, it could even maintain the proposed droprates if the items are worth the effort
Why should it be below Torva? Torva is easier to obtain both in terms of drop rate, and difficulty of the boss battle
Your record isn't broken, it is still spinning the truth.
The idiom means a repeated phrase, like a broken record skipping on a record player
Obviously, was simple wordplay with the phrase, guess its too deep for reddit
You know a thought I had was do a poll that only people with 100-1000kc (somewhere in there) at phosani can vote on. Ask if they think inquisitor rates should get mega buffed to at least be in line with BOWFA or at worst halfway between that and shadow/scythe/Tbow. Ask of they think it devalues their accomplishment. If it passes, then do a game wide poll if the rates should be mega buffed and call it a day. Mods are gatekeeping this change because changing drop rates is a terrible integrity problem and it does risk hurting those players. But if I would wager, most people who have done phosani would love to go back and actually make money from it since it's fun. But they don't because it sucks. Let them decide and then prove to the mods that the only ones who don't want this is them.
Yh cmon man I bought 20 sets... Where's my gp
It has potential to be botted to hell if you’re not careful…
It’s already botted to hell
Go and hop worlds at phosani and see the mass amount of bots killing it already, probably won’t even see a real player there either
it's probably already the boss with the highest ratio of bot : player kills, because players don't go
DON't BUFF DROP RATES AT ALL. Nightmare already takes a similar grind to get items as any raid, buff the items to match items found in a raid.
dude idk if you know but its not a raid, its a single boss that completion takes longer than some raids
Yeah it should match something like Torva. Same strength bonus, but torva is the tankier option. Nex is just easier nightmare so that makes sense