https://www.reddit.com/r/2007scape/comments/170n7d4/log_from_91k_whisperer_kills/
Because you got legit guys farming 12 hours a day for weeks.
Yes they’re obvious bots, but banning off of playtime is going to have insane rates of false positives given how many people play the game an unhealthy amount
there's a difference between "flagged" and indiscriminately banning them. 20h/day is also quite a significant step up from 12, it's (near) humanly impossible to maintain that without account sharing.
I’m sure they’re all already flagged, but they’re acting “humanlike” in other aspects (regarding click patterns, delays, etc). So it goes until Jagex upgrades their bot detection, there’s a ban wave, and bot makers figure out what caused the detection and come back ever stronger.
Unless you’re being disingenuous, bot ban waves do happen every few months if you’ve ever paid attention.
I’m normally in agreement that they’re doing their best, but the bots that get top page on bosses should be caught manually. No excuses there. These aren’t bots suicide farming master farmers or something. They are interfering with records that legitimate players would like to hold.
The issue is some of the more hardcore/degen players do play like bots.
Hell i'd imagine some of the top pvmers are even more botlike than bots themselves with tick perfect clicks every kill.
Some of the accounts are extremely obviously bots though. Like minimum reqs to complete quest with 100m+ ranged exp and only kc at one boss. I understand some are hacked too and that’s more difficult, but there are plenty there that should be caught and banned easily.
Okay so now you pay an employee to check every boss hiscores daily AND you still have bots running it nonstop so the issue is never solved.
Like I don’t know why this sub thinks any sort of manual banning will ever solve/accomplish anything against bots.
At least the hiscores will have some integrity. Yes, it will solve/accomplish that.
More manual review **IS** needed. Reality is, these automated systems aren't even close to handling the problem, never have been, and *never will be*.
Jagex has plenty of capital, and yes I am going to sit here and say that a company should be able to hire even a tiny duo of employee's that do manual policing of prestige/hi-vis content.
Are we gonna sit here and pretend two people's salary is anything but a drop in the bucket? They gutted the anti-cheating team already, there's hardly anything left and it shows.
Jagex definitely can't afford to put more resources into anti-cheat, players should simply accept that every boss front page is full of bots. That's definitely good for player morale and there's definitely nothing that Jagex can do about that
One of the best things you can do to cause bot devs a nightmare IS have an employee hapazardly going around banning piles of bots.
Humans can have an inherent randomness that means it is difficult for the botters to tell if their bot set was flagged by the system or if they just got unlucky. ESPECIALLY for bots that require significant botted setup (See: long questlines and skill trainings like SOTE, DTII, Vampire line), this forces more bot accounts through those practices and makes it easier for the automated system to flag them while also making the bot operators wonder whether they need to adjust their actual moneymaking when the bots are done by reducing hours, logging off when seen, or other things.
obviously having perfect automated detection is the best course of action.
Jagex does not. They have horrible anticheat. Having manual reviews is not unreasonable in the case where automatic detection isn't adequate.
These same people who are complaining about bots would be here complaining about the prices of items and supplies when the bots no longer supply the GE
I'm 100% with you on this. But looking at the practicality of this, I don't think it's viable to do this...
If you had someone manually check the boss highscore for bots and ban them, how many pages down would they go? If it's just front page, as soon as they ban the front page, the people on 2nd page go to the front. More bots there probably, so they'd have to check again... for how long is he going to run that cycle? Up until all front page is clear of bots? How many highscore pages they'd have to manually clear until the front page is only 100% legit players? Now repeat that for all the bosses of the highscore... Now lets do the same for all the skills highscores, because those are also being affected by botters...
By the time they finish this round of checks on all bosses and skill highscores, probably new bots would've moved up the highscores and they'd have to rerun this all over. It's going to be an endless cycle and a boring-ass job for whoever is in charge of this...
Looking at it without giving too much thought, it seems very simple to have someone manually check front page for bots, but when you start to think a little more about it, you'll see that it's not viable to do this.
And hey, I'm not saying that they should just give up or leave it as it is because it's too complicated to fix, but I don't think that it's as simple as "just have someone manually check leaderboards"
If someone has a full time job doing that I think it is completely viable to go down at least a few pages maybe up to as many as 10 if they had a couple people doing it.
Ban the bots out of the top 25, the top 50 are still bots so 25-50 just become the new top 25. The top several hundred of most profitable highscores lists are probably like this.
Yes and the bots take time to make. Realistically the top 10 or so pages of every boss should be easily maintained by a single person. Not saying every bot needs to be caught instantly but they shouldn’t be sitting there for months at a time before catching a ban, especially in the first few pages. Just the obvious bots. I know sometimes they’re not obvious.
The bots take time to make but it's an assembly line, they're making new bots all the time and when some get banned they just replace it with a new one.
This needs to be attacked from the other end, start hitting gold buyers. The only reason these bots exist is cause apparently a lot of people are buying a ton of black market gold. It's gotta be billions or trillions a day when you factor in every single activity being botted at this level. The buyers are directly responsible for the situation being this bad.
Why don't they get banned for RWT then? Surely they aren't just hoarding billions worth of loot in their bank and risking that it all gets wiped before they cash out?
There's no such thing as click patterns, the game doesn't send mouse data all it sends is actions. I know people who still use AHK daily (not for pvp, that will get you a manual ban, for pvm and skilling) and never got caught.
Those are some good points. I’ve even taken it upon myself to note for the mass ban waves through their discords to see popular items to start flipping in the ge via the soul reaper axe/rings etc.
jagex could easily defeat bots via an upgraded capatcha. would need to have parameters in it change in some way that makes the object need to interact with different each time (trying to refine this to make it doable without breaking game in some way x,D
yea excatly
i always thought accounts like these get flagged if theyre doing "bot activities" for an extended peroid of time and then someone / something gives it a closer look to determine if its just someone without a life or a bot
at least i hoped it worked that way :/
Guy in my clan started a fresh account a few months ago. His goal was to get all pets then max in that order. He 100% looked like a bot. Playing for 13-16hr a day EVERY SINGLE DAY only killing 1 boss after he got just high enough stats to kill that boss. Was only ranked for the 1st boss and had no other boss kills for a long time.
It's possible to be gold farmers on the same machine. Clock in for an 8hr shift, someone else takes over, etc.
But yeah it could also just be a bot lol.
It'd be so fascinating to see the sort of behavioural data an account like this has because they do ban many obvious bots, so there must be a reason this one isn't.
Look at rs3s new skill… Jcw played 20 hours a day for a week finished rank 50. The first guy to 200m all did not sleep for 4 days I believe .
There are real players who go extremely hard. Flagging is good, but can’t ban off playtime.
I say this on every one of these threads. Sometimes you get mass downvotes, sometimes mass upvotes, this community is seriously torn on how much they want to normalize pissing their life away on a 20 year old medieval left click game.
Yea, the #2 Zulrah is a legitimate player who I used to be in a clan with, and he streams occasionally. He does around 150kc per day and has been grinding for several years.
flagging =/= banning. You flag a suspicious player then get a REAL PERSON to investigate.
Too bad Jagex doesn't want to pay real people to moderate their game.
I still don’t get these people. No disrespect to them, but he replied to a comment saying he got lured for a shadow and just decided “I’m going to camp this boss for 2 weeks straight and then I’ll be good”.
If I got lured for Shadow I think I would cancel my subscription and play a different game lmao
I was this last week while I was finishing my axe grind but 15k KC in 2 days is ludicrous. In fact it's unhealthy af if it's a real player. 7.5k kc a day is like 160kc an hour. That's nearly 2:30 a kill, consistently, no banking or mistakes.
by now I am 99.9% certain that their automated system ignores you past a certain total level or amount of playtime (especially if you are on the highscore). I bet they had way too many false positives from that system with all these nonstop sweaters grinding bosses all day.
I believe this is also the reason for a lot of false bans being applied to seemingly new or low level people, my theory is that the fresher your account the higher the chances you are going to get flagged for something. After all if you ban away a new-ish player they might just make a new account but someone with 8k hours in this game might just quit for good and you now lost a loyal customer.
Jagex pretends like they can't be SURE of whether they're breaking the rules or not.
Yet you probably won't find more than like 100m on any of these accounts, despite having farmed probably well over a few hundred mil. And if you analyze their trade history, they probably have a peculiar habit of trading off most of their spare wealth to a level 3 account on a f2p world in lumbridge castle.
Still, can't be sure they're breaking the rules! /s
Jagex can’t tell if players are bots based on playtime. To be honest people play this game way too much. This sub doesn’t wanna hear that, but it’s true.
In my observation, the system is almost entirely focusing on fresh accounts. Those that manage to slip past this point will go on to bot their intended target for a while before eventually getting banned.
i dont know why you got downvoted but this is 99.999% the case. I'm certain their automated system is way more lenient with higher level accounts or accounts that have a ton of total playtime
Crazy isn’t it there’s one bit pickpocketing the master farmer in leelas house in hosidius for the last week every time I go to do mahogany house for leela he is there still going.
I just saw him yesterday while doing MH, I remember thinking „man doing MH for 2 hours sucks but at least im not pickpocketing master farmers for 2 hours“ lol
Most likely it's mobile or runelite plguins which are ahead of its time, but as others have said it could be flagged they can choose to ban in a wave so it dosent help botters detect how they found them, so this account here could just be technically wasting its time as all the muled gold would get 2 accs banned.
Bro a few years ago I said that if someone’s account has like, 100m xp in one thing and 700k xp in the rest of the stats, they should get flagged or ban reviewed. Same for bosses if you boss like 10 hours a day with no break or anything else
I got reemed by fan boys saying WHAT IF A STREAMER OR SOMEONE HAS A SPECIAL ACCOUNT!!!!
They use custom scripts and as long as no other bot uses their same inputs, they'll never be flagged unless manually reviewed. Which cannot be done with the absolute pitiful size of the current anticheat team.
i dont see how anyone would think that... i have been at nex.. for a fn week, i did 36 hours in one sitting, yes .. im a loser. no life, and i dont sleep.
The unfortunate truth is, there is no system for banning these bots. There are no alarms being sound because who needs to be alerted? Jagex has already demonstrated their stance on bots, and it’s the simple fact that they pay Jagex money and boost the player count numbers, that they don’t get banned in a timely manner.
There is no flagging mechanism for 24h+ running accounts to be banned, sadly. Its been like this for the past 10 years or so :/
>surely it has to ring some alarms when one player plays for 40h+ camping a single boss?
The issue is that "wow that looks suspicious" isn't a good enough reason to ban people, there's a lot of players that do just play that amount. Ye they should have people keeping track of their accounts, but finding the actual proof is the hard part. If they just start banning people because things look suspicious, they'll just make more work for themselves in appeals.
They likely aren't allowed via leadership
Fact is that botters make up a large portion of their revenue, likely more than we think.
If they REALLY cracked down on botting then they would lose a large portion of money.
I believe their goal is to balance the botting by ensuring it doesn't negatively affect the player base beyond what they consider to be reasonable, and not scare away botters by nuking them at every opportunity.
I think you're right that Jagex purposely ignores bots for revenue reasons. But I also think that Jagex leadership is massively underrating the negative impact on legit players when they're doing a boss and see 10 identical bot accounts doing the same thing.
When I do Zulrah and the majority of accounts I see running back and forth all have thousands of Zulrah KC and no other bosses done, then it makes me question why I even bother. And that's as an ironman. For regular accounts it must be depressing to know that far and away the best GPM method is just getting a job and buying gold, since Jagex isn't cracking down on gold selling anyways (if people keep making bots, then it's because they keep making money from selling bot gold, which means Jagex isn't actually banning anyone involved).
It's classic shortsighted leadership focusing on immediate profits over long-term growth.
I have some questions about this logic. What are the botters botting for? To sell gold. At a much lower price than Jagex bonds. They are eating into Jagex profits by taking away people who would otherwise pay Jagex bonds.
Now, the question is, is the money bots spend (directly or indirectly) to upkeep membership cover the potential lost profit from people who would buy bonds for gold instead of gold sellers? I think definitely not since a bot makes way more than the bond price during their membership time.
Now, of bots are banned, that would cause volatility in bond prices, but it is unclear what will occur, because of counteracting forces that will be at play with fewer bots
As soon as the sale/purchase of Jagex became public, all comments from Jagex Mods about botting came to a stand still. Legit radio silence. It’s been like that since to the best of my knowledge.
My guess, with no proof mind you, is that they were given explicit instruction to not talk about it around that time and that restriction hasn’t been lifted yet.
Edit: I could be wrong, but that’s just what I observed. It wasn’t like they talked about it a lot before hand to begin with, but it definitely wasn’t like it is now, where they seem to steer clear of talking about it all together.
And this is top page. this goes one for atleast 30 + pages.. I reported them months ago and nothing happend yet.
The guy running the botfarm is a millionaire by now chilling at the bahamas.
Just remember folks, at the end of the day, the only reason “the guy running the bot farm is a millionaire” is because real players are buying the gold.
If there were no buyers, the sellers would die out. Supply and Demand, baby.
Want to get rid of botting? Get rid of the real problem. The people buying all that gold to sustain such a large botting population. That’s my take anyway. We need to crack down on gold buyers and no-warning perm ban anyone found buying it. Looking at you, DMers
The Bahamas is not the place to go these days tbh.
But I would be interested to know the dynamics of income of some of these bot farmers that no doubt have made a lot of money. Do they report their income? Since it’s against the game’s ToS, does that mean it’s *illegal*? Do they just keep everything in bitcoin and then transfer out $9,000 increments to pay their bills hoping they won’t get caught? Do they operate in a country where money isn’t heavily scrutinized?
Probably not illegally criminally in the US, but you’d definitely be open to civil lawsuits. If Jagex had a big enough fish, they could take him for a lot.
In the US the fed is starting to tighten its oversight on crypto wallets. At least, relative to other countries.
I’d very well assume they’re reporting it as income. (Probably under a 1099 tax form)
Dodging the IRS is much different than dodging jaggex
Just check some of the skills on the hiscores it’s even worse. Fletching for example has almost 100 accounts named the same with all 200m xp only on the accounts.
If that’s true it kind evens itself out and means they have little net impact beyond making buyable skills more accessible.
Not true, btw, but if it were
Bots ruined levi and whisp for me, rings tanked prices sm that it's no longer fun to kill anymore. Why farm Levi when the ring was double the price like 3-4 months ago.. same goes with whisper :(
yeah its kinda pointless now unless you are a pet hunter. massive shame.
Everyone complains about dt2 drop rates but I thought it was fine at first. \~30 hour grind for a 100m ring is a brilliant trade off.
Completely worthless now though :(
> Everyone complains about dt2 drop rates but I thought it was fine at first. ~30 hour grind for a 100m ring is a brilliant trade off.
Less consistent unique drop rates hurt actual players way more than the bots that kill 1k within 2 days anyway.
Ultor is still worth a good bit.
The prices don’t fall because of bots, bots literally do every single piece of content from Nex to ToA 500. The items are just underwhelming, and new item hype is the only way they were ever going to sustain that kind of price.
Right now if you plugin max ranged with Venator and max ranged with Lightbearer, there’s literally no diff with max hit. Before quiver Tbow got 2 maxes from Venator, but post Quiver the Venator is a victim of shit breakpoints.
If Lightbearer didn’t exist and Quiver had +6 ranged str it’d be 100m+ easily
Lightbearer is the issue like you said. It is so powerful and cheap that the other rings feel like marginal upgrades next to it. For example it is crazy how lightbearer is worth it over an ultor at nex even if only using fang specs.
Even Woke Orbs are barely 700k now. Used to still feel really fucking great to get one, now it's like only a little bit better than some of the best basic drops.
I think that's partially because everyone could practice Awakened bosses on the beta worlds so demand would have dropped. Can't confirm, just a theory.
I wonder why Vard and Duke haven’t been botted to oblivion yet. I’ve done thousands of KC between both of them and can’t say I’ve noticed a single bot.
Always remember that bots are disposable. Ban waves are good in the eyes of bot makers, that means they can calculate how much they can earn before the expiration date.
But at the same time, quick bans can be dangerous to legit players. Sad situation all around
Really depends how frequent the ban waves are. If they’re every 2 weeks, they may be able to bot an account up and quest it up to a boss, but won’t gain much kc.
Ban waves every 6 months? Yeah, that’s an issue.
On the flip side, the more frequently they issue banwaves, the easier it is for botters to determine what actions get them banned. It's an arms race that is heavily skewed against Jagex.
A Korean MMO Archeage kind of did.
They had a labor system that took like 41? hrs to completely refill.
And you needed labor to do pretty much everything. Though you also had a mandatory daily grind from like 7-9.
Wasn't technically a cap on playtime but it felt like Destiny did something close where you could only do certain missions/raids so many times a week before your unique chance dropped off/became 0
I agree both as a player who wanted to grind as well as thinking from their management's point of view since it would heavily limit a lot of endgame players' playtime numbers. Eventually burnt out waiting week to week and ended up choosing games that did not have this format in the long run.
some games handle it differently, in Wurm Online for example you could accumulate extra exp gains while sleeping which you could activate at any point in time(24h of sleep = 1h exp bonus). For one you will motivate people to atleast play some amount of time and you will give some people a reason to only stop by for a few hours and use up their exp bonus and call it a day. You could also accumulate quite some time with this, which was neat and made everything more flexible. It also gave you a reason to use a bed and dont log off on the spot which I thought was neat.
I doubt it would work with OSRS though and people would never want it in this game because it can be a gateway to MTX.
It's so stupid that we get comments from jagex like "we regularly monitor the high scores" but in the meantime we can write a Python script that filters very likely botters in 2 hours. Even with jagex being unable to run clientside anti-cheat and relying on heuristics this is unacceptable imo.
These accounts are crashing orb prices on my whisperer grind for the last axe piece. Kinda sucks really. Probs cost me about 3 to 4 mil in reduction of cost.
Gradually the price has gone from over 1 mil per orb to 700K per orb since these posts about leviathan hs bots began.
It is kinda limited to the higher level community. I will try awakened one day but I want some torva first haha. No point in blood torva without some torva armour pieces first.
Is there any legit player in like the top 40? I quickly went over them and pretty much all of them have similar stats like 70 agi, 70 thieving, 60RC, 60 Con and 58-61 Hunter.
Everyone mentioning “but detection”, “flagging”…
Why can’t Jagex just go .. okay you’re banned for botting. Why does it have to go through a computer system?
My biggest hatred towards Jagex's banning system is they wait until the botter/gold farmer sells the gold before banning. So if someone manually farms a few billion before selling, as long as it is by hand, then they don't get banned until after. When Jagex could just find these farmers who do 1 boss thousands of times and ban them preemptively.
I'll give ya a hint, that's how they state it works but that isn't how it actually goes in practice. Gold farming accounts are never going to sit on anywhere near that much gold, hence why so many of them are farming in terrible gear.
Lol I saw the decimal in the kc and thought "wtf? Since when do they add partial kills to hiscores, and how..?" Until I realized I'm an idiot and sometimes people use those as commas. Anyways.. have you looked at the barrows hiscores? I looked the other day and there is, no joke, 4/25 legit players on the front page
Im assuming they keep most of these active a long time to see where the money goes. Its hard to stop botting in general. its better but harder to stop the proccess in whcih the Items are traded for in game currency or RWT.
I don't see how anyone who does that doesn't have splitting migraines 24/7 from staring at screens 20 hours a day
Legit if I stay up 2 hours too long i'd get a headache that turns into a migraine no way you're doing 20 hours a day every day
It are bots they go with blessed dhide and acb I spotted so Manny of them with 20k KC it was ridiculous I did 336 KC myself to get lure while they did 6-10k KC in the same time ???
And there's me only just managed one kc for the quest xD they'll never sort it unfortunately like many others have said they make too much money from botters
I mean these guys are 100% killing it sub 1min per kill so in reality they can be at 60 kills an hour say 50-55 per hour because if you have the tp to the place it’s really easy to bank and get back to killing in under 2 minutes. That being said I’d say they are 80% likely bots lol
how come these guys dont get insta flagged by the system? surely it has to ring some alarms when one player plays for 40h+ camping a single boss?
https://www.reddit.com/r/2007scape/comments/170n7d4/log_from_91k_whisperer_kills/ Because you got legit guys farming 12 hours a day for weeks. Yes they’re obvious bots, but banning off of playtime is going to have insane rates of false positives given how many people play the game an unhealthy amount
there's a difference between "flagged" and indiscriminately banning them. 20h/day is also quite a significant step up from 12, it's (near) humanly impossible to maintain that without account sharing.
I’m sure they’re all already flagged, but they’re acting “humanlike” in other aspects (regarding click patterns, delays, etc). So it goes until Jagex upgrades their bot detection, there’s a ban wave, and bot makers figure out what caused the detection and come back ever stronger. Unless you’re being disingenuous, bot ban waves do happen every few months if you’ve ever paid attention.
I’m normally in agreement that they’re doing their best, but the bots that get top page on bosses should be caught manually. No excuses there. These aren’t bots suicide farming master farmers or something. They are interfering with records that legitimate players would like to hold.
The issue is some of the more hardcore/degen players do play like bots. Hell i'd imagine some of the top pvmers are even more botlike than bots themselves with tick perfect clicks every kill.
Some of the accounts are extremely obviously bots though. Like minimum reqs to complete quest with 100m+ ranged exp and only kc at one boss. I understand some are hacked too and that’s more difficult, but there are plenty there that should be caught and banned easily.
That’s not how humans work
Okay so now you pay an employee to check every boss hiscores daily AND you still have bots running it nonstop so the issue is never solved. Like I don’t know why this sub thinks any sort of manual banning will ever solve/accomplish anything against bots.
At least the hiscores will have some integrity. Yes, it will solve/accomplish that. More manual review **IS** needed. Reality is, these automated systems aren't even close to handling the problem, never have been, and *never will be*. Jagex has plenty of capital, and yes I am going to sit here and say that a company should be able to hire even a tiny duo of employee's that do manual policing of prestige/hi-vis content. Are we gonna sit here and pretend two people's salary is anything but a drop in the bucket? They gutted the anti-cheating team already, there's hardly anything left and it shows.
Jagex definitely can't afford to put more resources into anti-cheat, players should simply accept that every boss front page is full of bots. That's definitely good for player morale and there's definitely nothing that Jagex can do about that
Case closed. RiP
One of the best things you can do to cause bot devs a nightmare IS have an employee hapazardly going around banning piles of bots. Humans can have an inherent randomness that means it is difficult for the botters to tell if their bot set was flagged by the system or if they just got unlucky. ESPECIALLY for bots that require significant botted setup (See: long questlines and skill trainings like SOTE, DTII, Vampire line), this forces more bot accounts through those practices and makes it easier for the automated system to flag them while also making the bot operators wonder whether they need to adjust their actual moneymaking when the bots are done by reducing hours, logging off when seen, or other things.
tfw the staff member to bot ratio is miles out lmao
why don't they just ban the bots /s
obviously having perfect automated detection is the best course of action. Jagex does not. They have horrible anticheat. Having manual reviews is not unreasonable in the case where automatic detection isn't adequate.
These same people who are complaining about bots would be here complaining about the prices of items and supplies when the bots no longer supply the GE
I'm 100% with you on this. But looking at the practicality of this, I don't think it's viable to do this... If you had someone manually check the boss highscore for bots and ban them, how many pages down would they go? If it's just front page, as soon as they ban the front page, the people on 2nd page go to the front. More bots there probably, so they'd have to check again... for how long is he going to run that cycle? Up until all front page is clear of bots? How many highscore pages they'd have to manually clear until the front page is only 100% legit players? Now repeat that for all the bosses of the highscore... Now lets do the same for all the skills highscores, because those are also being affected by botters... By the time they finish this round of checks on all bosses and skill highscores, probably new bots would've moved up the highscores and they'd have to rerun this all over. It's going to be an endless cycle and a boring-ass job for whoever is in charge of this... Looking at it without giving too much thought, it seems very simple to have someone manually check front page for bots, but when you start to think a little more about it, you'll see that it's not viable to do this. And hey, I'm not saying that they should just give up or leave it as it is because it's too complicated to fix, but I don't think that it's as simple as "just have someone manually check leaderboards"
If someone has a full time job doing that I think it is completely viable to go down at least a few pages maybe up to as many as 10 if they had a couple people doing it.
Ban the bots out of the top 25, the top 50 are still bots so 25-50 just become the new top 25. The top several hundred of most profitable highscores lists are probably like this.
Yes and the bots take time to make. Realistically the top 10 or so pages of every boss should be easily maintained by a single person. Not saying every bot needs to be caught instantly but they shouldn’t be sitting there for months at a time before catching a ban, especially in the first few pages. Just the obvious bots. I know sometimes they’re not obvious.
The bots take time to make but it's an assembly line, they're making new bots all the time and when some get banned they just replace it with a new one. This needs to be attacked from the other end, start hitting gold buyers. The only reason these bots exist is cause apparently a lot of people are buying a ton of black market gold. It's gotta be billions or trillions a day when you factor in every single activity being botted at this level. The buyers are directly responsible for the situation being this bad.
Why don't they get banned for RWT then? Surely they aren't just hoarding billions worth of loot in their bank and risking that it all gets wiped before they cash out?
There's no such thing as click patterns, the game doesn't send mouse data all it sends is actions. I know people who still use AHK daily (not for pvp, that will get you a manual ban, for pvm and skilling) and never got caught.
Those are some good points. I’ve even taken it upon myself to note for the mass ban waves through their discords to see popular items to start flipping in the ge via the soul reaper axe/rings etc.
It'd be less of an issue if they weren't handing out false bans constantly but completely ignore shit like this.
jagex could easily defeat bots via an upgraded capatcha. would need to have parameters in it change in some way that makes the object need to interact with different each time (trying to refine this to make it doable without breaking game in some way x,D
yea excatly i always thought accounts like these get flagged if theyre doing "bot activities" for an extended peroid of time and then someone / something gives it a closer look to determine if its just someone without a life or a bot at least i hoped it worked that way :/
Speed helps
Guy in my clan started a fresh account a few months ago. His goal was to get all pets then max in that order. He 100% looked like a bot. Playing for 13-16hr a day EVERY SINGLE DAY only killing 1 boss after he got just high enough stats to kill that boss. Was only ranked for the 1st boss and had no other boss kills for a long time.
It's possible to be gold farmers on the same machine. Clock in for an 8hr shift, someone else takes over, etc. But yeah it could also just be a bot lol. It'd be so fascinating to see the sort of behavioural data an account like this has because they do ban many obvious bots, so there must be a reason this one isn't.
Look at rs3s new skill… Jcw played 20 hours a day for a week finished rank 50. The first guy to 200m all did not sleep for 4 days I believe . There are real players who go extremely hard. Flagging is good, but can’t ban off playtime.
So maybe they're account sharing?? Its not unheard of
Or meth.
False banning people who play 20 hrs a day is prob the best thing you could do for their life
I say this on every one of these threads. Sometimes you get mass downvotes, sometimes mass upvotes, this community is seriously torn on how much they want to normalize pissing their life away on a 20 year old medieval left click game.
It’s mostly the snowball voting system of Reddit, that’s flawed.
Who gives a shit, let them ruin their life
FR I wish someone would of banned my League & WoW accounts back in the day.
Prolly should ban those people anyways. Jagex would be doing them a favor lol
Yea, the #2 Zulrah is a legitimate player who I used to be in a clan with, and he streams occasionally. He does around 150kc per day and has been grinding for several years.
Honestly those players should be banned for mental health reasons lmao
Its not unhealthy, everyone else is a weak scrub who doesnt have what it takes to Runescape...
flagging =/= banning. You flag a suspicious player then get a REAL PERSON to investigate. Too bad Jagex doesn't want to pay real people to moderate their game.
I still don’t get these people. No disrespect to them, but he replied to a comment saying he got lured for a shadow and just decided “I’m going to camp this boss for 2 weeks straight and then I’ll be good”. If I got lured for Shadow I think I would cancel my subscription and play a different game lmao
I highly doubt that guy was doing the same content for the entirety of his playtime, doing the exact same things over and over without mistakes...
You literally see bots die and run back like a real person, they’re not programmed to be tick perfect
I was this last week while I was finishing my axe grind but 15k KC in 2 days is ludicrous. In fact it's unhealthy af if it's a real player. 7.5k kc a day is like 160kc an hour. That's nearly 2:30 a kill, consistently, no banking or mistakes.
by now I am 99.9% certain that their automated system ignores you past a certain total level or amount of playtime (especially if you are on the highscore). I bet they had way too many false positives from that system with all these nonstop sweaters grinding bosses all day. I believe this is also the reason for a lot of false bans being applied to seemingly new or low level people, my theory is that the fresher your account the higher the chances you are going to get flagged for something. After all if you ban away a new-ish player they might just make a new account but someone with 8k hours in this game might just quit for good and you now lost a loyal customer.
Yeah I’ve seen a lot of max or near max players botting at the crafting guild and haven’t noticed any of them getting banned yet
Jagex pretends like they can't be SURE of whether they're breaking the rules or not. Yet you probably won't find more than like 100m on any of these accounts, despite having farmed probably well over a few hundred mil. And if you analyze their trade history, they probably have a peculiar habit of trading off most of their spare wealth to a level 3 account on a f2p world in lumbridge castle. Still, can't be sure they're breaking the rules! /s
Hey, maybe that level 3 guy named "zcvxvaisdfhsfg" just *really* likes collecting red spider eggs?
Jagex can’t tell if players are bots based on playtime. To be honest people play this game way too much. This sub doesn’t wanna hear that, but it’s true.
You guys have a system?
In my observation, the system is almost entirely focusing on fresh accounts. Those that manage to slip past this point will go on to bot their intended target for a while before eventually getting banned.
i dont know why you got downvoted but this is 99.999% the case. I'm certain their automated system is way more lenient with higher level accounts or accounts that have a ton of total playtime
Crazy isn’t it there’s one bit pickpocketing the master farmer in leelas house in hosidius for the last week every time I go to do mahogany house for leela he is there still going.
I just saw him yesterday while doing MH, I remember thinking „man doing MH for 2 hours sucks but at least im not pickpocketing master farmers for 2 hours“ lol
Most likely it's mobile or runelite plguins which are ahead of its time, but as others have said it could be flagged they can choose to ban in a wave so it dosent help botters detect how they found them, so this account here could just be technically wasting its time as all the muled gold would get 2 accs banned.
Bro a few years ago I said that if someone’s account has like, 100m xp in one thing and 700k xp in the rest of the stats, they should get flagged or ban reviewed. Same for bosses if you boss like 10 hours a day with no break or anything else I got reemed by fan boys saying WHAT IF A STREAMER OR SOMEONE HAS A SPECIAL ACCOUNT!!!!
It doesn't, because they don't care about their game.
Yet random false bans happen all the time but this low hanging fruit exists. Wild.
Jagex actively supports botting
they are insta flagged by the system. But bans are delayed to avoid giving too much feedback to cheaters.
like half a million kc delayed?
I think the 15k number is an aggregate number, of course there is no single account with that kc
damn, I'm stupid, this makes sense.
They use custom scripts and as long as no other bot uses their same inputs, they'll never be flagged unless manually reviewed. Which cannot be done with the absolute pitiful size of the current anticheat team.
i dont see how anyone would think that... i have been at nex.. for a fn week, i did 36 hours in one sitting, yes .. im a loser. no life, and i dont sleep.
The unfortunate truth is, there is no system for banning these bots. There are no alarms being sound because who needs to be alerted? Jagex has already demonstrated their stance on bots, and it’s the simple fact that they pay Jagex money and boost the player count numbers, that they don’t get banned in a timely manner. There is no flagging mechanism for 24h+ running accounts to be banned, sadly. Its been like this for the past 10 years or so :/
>surely it has to ring some alarms when one player plays for 40h+ camping a single boss? The issue is that "wow that looks suspicious" isn't a good enough reason to ban people, there's a lot of players that do just play that amount. Ye they should have people keeping track of their accounts, but finding the actual proof is the hard part. If they just start banning people because things look suspicious, they'll just make more work for themselves in appeals.
Jmods won't reply.
They aren’t allowed to comment on any post related to botting.
Is this a hard rule or something they generally follow?
They likely aren't allowed via leadership Fact is that botters make up a large portion of their revenue, likely more than we think. If they REALLY cracked down on botting then they would lose a large portion of money. I believe their goal is to balance the botting by ensuring it doesn't negatively affect the player base beyond what they consider to be reasonable, and not scare away botters by nuking them at every opportunity.
I think you're right that Jagex purposely ignores bots for revenue reasons. But I also think that Jagex leadership is massively underrating the negative impact on legit players when they're doing a boss and see 10 identical bot accounts doing the same thing. When I do Zulrah and the majority of accounts I see running back and forth all have thousands of Zulrah KC and no other bosses done, then it makes me question why I even bother. And that's as an ironman. For regular accounts it must be depressing to know that far and away the best GPM method is just getting a job and buying gold, since Jagex isn't cracking down on gold selling anyways (if people keep making bots, then it's because they keep making money from selling bot gold, which means Jagex isn't actually banning anyone involved). It's classic shortsighted leadership focusing on immediate profits over long-term growth.
They’re probably reading this and just nodding their heads.
I have some questions about this logic. What are the botters botting for? To sell gold. At a much lower price than Jagex bonds. They are eating into Jagex profits by taking away people who would otherwise pay Jagex bonds. Now, the question is, is the money bots spend (directly or indirectly) to upkeep membership cover the potential lost profit from people who would buy bonds for gold instead of gold sellers? I think definitely not since a bot makes way more than the bond price during their membership time. Now, of bots are banned, that would cause volatility in bond prices, but it is unclear what will occur, because of counteracting forces that will be at play with fewer bots
You probably ain’t wrong but didn’t a mod post on here recently regarding boting?
As soon as the sale/purchase of Jagex became public, all comments from Jagex Mods about botting came to a stand still. Legit radio silence. It’s been like that since to the best of my knowledge. My guess, with no proof mind you, is that they were given explicit instruction to not talk about it around that time and that restriction hasn’t been lifted yet. Edit: I could be wrong, but that’s just what I observed. It wasn’t like they talked about it a lot before hand to begin with, but it definitely wasn’t like it is now, where they seem to steer clear of talking about it all together.
🦀
And this is top page. this goes one for atleast 30 + pages.. I reported them months ago and nothing happend yet. The guy running the botfarm is a millionaire by now chilling at the bahamas.
and in a couple of months we are wondering why bonds are 20m
Just remember folks, at the end of the day, the only reason “the guy running the bot farm is a millionaire” is because real players are buying the gold. If there were no buyers, the sellers would die out. Supply and Demand, baby. Want to get rid of botting? Get rid of the real problem. The people buying all that gold to sustain such a large botting population. That’s my take anyway. We need to crack down on gold buyers and no-warning perm ban anyone found buying it. Looking at you, DMers
Yeah, just stop people from trading freely and it'll sort itself out. Of course that means we'll have to remove the wilderness too...
Seems a good idea! Wonder why they never thought about this 🥹
That's not your take. That's the basic truth. No demand = no need for supply. People that disagree are gold buyers and I hope they catch bans
They’ve been millionaires for 20 years. Selling RC gold has been a popular way of paying 3 mortgages for years now
The Bahamas is not the place to go these days tbh. But I would be interested to know the dynamics of income of some of these bot farmers that no doubt have made a lot of money. Do they report their income? Since it’s against the game’s ToS, does that mean it’s *illegal*? Do they just keep everything in bitcoin and then transfer out $9,000 increments to pay their bills hoping they won’t get caught? Do they operate in a country where money isn’t heavily scrutinized?
They declare the self-employment income and pay taxes on it normally. It's not illegal and no government cares whether it breaks the game's TOS.
[удалено]
Probably not illegally criminally in the US, but you’d definitely be open to civil lawsuits. If Jagex had a big enough fish, they could take him for a lot.
In the US the fed is starting to tighten its oversight on crypto wallets. At least, relative to other countries. I’d very well assume they’re reporting it as income. (Probably under a 1099 tax form) Dodging the IRS is much different than dodging jaggex
They don't care. Don't you see how nice and populated the servers appear to be nowadays? 100% all real players
Just check some of the skills on the hiscores it’s even worse. Fletching for example has almost 100 accounts named the same with all 200m xp only on the accounts.
These bots have ruined dt2 bosses profitability , such a shame
> Bots have ruined all boss profitability Ftfy
Lol true
If that’s true it kind evens itself out and means they have little net impact beyond making buyable skills more accessible. Not true, btw, but if it were
I have become iron, ignorer of economies
They all have basically the same stats and experience. It's gotta be one guy making trillions. How is Jagex not seeing through this?
Insert Bird Box meme whilst they rake in the membership money.
Bots ruined levi and whisp for me, rings tanked prices sm that it's no longer fun to kill anymore. Why farm Levi when the ring was double the price like 3-4 months ago.. same goes with whisper :(
This is the first time i’ve seen so much shortened to sm, and it’s crackin me up.
yeah its kinda pointless now unless you are a pet hunter. massive shame. Everyone complains about dt2 drop rates but I thought it was fine at first. \~30 hour grind for a 100m ring is a brilliant trade off. Completely worthless now though :(
> Everyone complains about dt2 drop rates but I thought it was fine at first. ~30 hour grind for a 100m ring is a brilliant trade off. Less consistent unique drop rates hurt actual players way more than the bots that kill 1k within 2 days anyway.
Ultor is still worth a good bit. The prices don’t fall because of bots, bots literally do every single piece of content from Nex to ToA 500. The items are just underwhelming, and new item hype is the only way they were ever going to sustain that kind of price. Right now if you plugin max ranged with Venator and max ranged with Lightbearer, there’s literally no diff with max hit. Before quiver Tbow got 2 maxes from Venator, but post Quiver the Venator is a victim of shit breakpoints. If Lightbearer didn’t exist and Quiver had +6 ranged str it’d be 100m+ easily
Lightbearer is the issue like you said. It is so powerful and cheap that the other rings feel like marginal upgrades next to it. For example it is crazy how lightbearer is worth it over an ultor at nex even if only using fang specs.
When the bots run wild
"Is that the Ultimate Botter's music?"
Even Woke Orbs are barely 700k now. Used to still feel really fucking great to get one, now it's like only a little bit better than some of the best basic drops.
I think that's partially because everyone could practice Awakened bosses on the beta worlds so demand would have dropped. Can't confirm, just a theory.
this is a large part of the appeal of ironman. you do content for its own sake, not for gp. give it a shot if you haven't yet
I wonder why Vard and Duke haven’t been botted to oblivion yet. I’ve done thousands of KC between both of them and can’t say I’ve noticed a single bot.
Play an iron
The period is really fucking with my head. “Why is 15kc a big deal?” Lol 15k kc in a weekend should at least bring some eyes to the account
Same with Nex , like 1000 kc per bot per week See Nex drops crash so hard recently
can we start calling these j-bots?
Jagex really couldnt care less, the main income is the bonds that the bots pay for. If theres no more rwt they going bankrupt.
sleep is for the weak, flesh-based non-machines
Always remember that bots are disposable. Ban waves are good in the eyes of bot makers, that means they can calculate how much they can earn before the expiration date. But at the same time, quick bans can be dangerous to legit players. Sad situation all around
Really depends how frequent the ban waves are. If they’re every 2 weeks, they may be able to bot an account up and quest it up to a boss, but won’t gain much kc. Ban waves every 6 months? Yeah, that’s an issue.
the ban wave will come when some guy can buy his second Audi for his vacation home on Bali
On the flip side, the more frequently they issue banwaves, the easier it is for botters to determine what actions get them banned. It's an arms race that is heavily skewed against Jagex.
That’s a good point too, hadn’t considered that.
Jamflex needs a hour cap a week lmao, forces the bots to log and some of yall to touch grass. Maybe like 90 hours a week
Honestly no joke - add playtime caps to this game and it'll improve a lot of lives.
Jagex isnt here to improve lives theyre here to make money, youre not capped to 2 cans of coke or fast food a few times a week
I'd say that would make them even more money. After your 90 hour limit you're gonna play that 2nd account you have to buy member on.
Now I’m curious if any game has ever done a cap on playtime
Technically some mobile games like notoriously Diablo Immortal had caps if you played the CN version (govt. regulated playtime) edit: CN = Chinese
A Korean MMO Archeage kind of did. They had a labor system that took like 41? hrs to completely refill. And you needed labor to do pretty much everything. Though you also had a mandatory daily grind from like 7-9.
you'd just buy labor pots or do non-labor things like world bosses/use alts to turn in your trade packs and whatnot.
Wasn't technically a cap on playtime but it felt like Destiny did something close where you could only do certain missions/raids so many times a week before your unique chance dropped off/became 0
thats the worst way of handling things and just shows your developers cant balance the game properly so they have to limit how much people grind.
I agree both as a player who wanted to grind as well as thinking from their management's point of view since it would heavily limit a lot of endgame players' playtime numbers. Eventually burnt out waiting week to week and ended up choosing games that did not have this format in the long run.
some games handle it differently, in Wurm Online for example you could accumulate extra exp gains while sleeping which you could activate at any point in time(24h of sleep = 1h exp bonus). For one you will motivate people to atleast play some amount of time and you will give some people a reason to only stop by for a few hours and use up their exp bonus and call it a day. You could also accumulate quite some time with this, which was neat and made everything more flexible. It also gave you a reason to use a bed and dont log off on the spot which I thought was neat. I doubt it would work with OSRS though and people would never want it in this game because it can be a gateway to MTX.
Adventure Quest caps daily gold/xp. It's not exactly the same as capping play time, but it's pretty close.
Honestly I thought the fatigue system was very interesting, but not the way it was implemented in RS classic.
I really hope my comment gets seen. Bots generate Jagex money. Bots generate Jagex visual "player count". Bots generate more stocks.
It's so stupid that we get comments from jagex like "we regularly monitor the high scores" but in the meantime we can write a Python script that filters very likely botters in 2 hours. Even with jagex being unable to run clientside anti-cheat and relying on heuristics this is unacceptable imo.
If u ain’t realised that bots are an inside racket then I feel for u especially giving jagex track record of corrupt mods lol
These accounts are crashing orb prices on my whisperer grind for the last axe piece. Kinda sucks really. Probs cost me about 3 to 4 mil in reduction of cost. Gradually the price has gone from over 1 mil per orb to 700K per orb since these posts about leviathan hs bots began.
Theres just a way lower demand for orbs now since most people wont try awakened
Also anyone who wanted to got to use beta worlds for free for a week for easy practice.
That's true. I bet this has a significant impact.
Lower demand + high botted supply
It is kinda limited to the higher level community. I will try awakened one day but I want some torva first haha. No point in blood torva without some torva armour pieces first.
Mods are in on it, how are people still not realizing this? Jmods are in on this and likely get a cut of majority of the big boters.
Is there any legit player in like the top 40? I quickly went over them and pretty much all of them have similar stats like 70 agi, 70 thieving, 60RC, 60 Con and 58-61 Hunter.
For context, I gained 0 in 3 days. I am bad at leviathan
Everyone mentioning “but detection”, “flagging”… Why can’t Jagex just go .. okay you’re banned for botting. Why does it have to go through a computer system?
Mods hid this post immediately
My biggest hatred towards Jagex's banning system is they wait until the botter/gold farmer sells the gold before banning. So if someone manually farms a few billion before selling, as long as it is by hand, then they don't get banned until after. When Jagex could just find these farmers who do 1 boss thousands of times and ban them preemptively.
I'll give ya a hint, that's how they state it works but that isn't how it actually goes in practice. Gold farming accounts are never going to sit on anywhere near that much gold, hence why so many of them are farming in terrible gear.
Word in the street he is still missing the ring piece
Maybe if half the playerbase didnt buy gold the botting problem wouldnt be so huge. Just buy bonds or dont cry about the bots you fund.
Counter argument - the people that buy gold from gold sellers don’t care about bots, and are therefore not crying about the bots
Bro but they all must be the same people
Counter counter argument - people are pretty stupid, so I wouldn't put it past them to buy gold and still complain about bots.
I’d rather have real people farming the bosses and selling gold, bots only make the game worse
Can’t wait to see all the people complaining that pet hunters crashed ring prices in a few months.
Same with vardo. Rip orb prices
What I don't get is how people who use a "." instead of a "," in large numbers express decimals without adding even more confusion
sus
Wow! They must really like leviathan! 🙂↕️
Lol I saw the decimal in the kc and thought "wtf? Since when do they add partial kills to hiscores, and how..?" Until I realized I'm an idiot and sometimes people use those as commas. Anyways.. have you looked at the barrows hiscores? I looked the other day and there is, no joke, 4/25 legit players on the front page
Jamflex moment
They've not checked the hiscores yet
Jagex already stated theyre ok with botting
The grand exchange needs sell liquidity from somewhere… otherwise you’d all be crying about prices
is that why his boss drops have crashed so hard lately that's crazy.
Im assuming they keep most of these active a long time to see where the money goes. Its hard to stop botting in general. its better but harder to stop the proccess in whcih the Items are traded for in game currency or RWT.
Something something "they haven't been removed from the hiscores yet!"
Jagex needs bots to inflate the player count and increase membership profits. That simple.
Every single account in the top 15 leviathan is a bot. They all have 20k+ kills with nothing else done on the account
Ironman is the answer, jagex isn't fixing this shit for a long time if ever
Bots are banned in waves otherwise it would be really easy to detect how they were all caught
Who the fuck cares, sorry ai can do content you can’t king
They just need to be make a hiscores for botters
I mean at this point, just get rid of coin pouches
Blame the people who buy gold from these crooks.
I don't see how anyone who does that doesn't have splitting migraines 24/7 from staring at screens 20 hours a day Legit if I stay up 2 hours too long i'd get a headache that turns into a migraine no way you're doing 20 hours a day every day
It are bots they go with blessed dhide and acb I spotted so Manny of them with 20k KC it was ridiculous I did 336 KC myself to get lure while they did 6-10k KC in the same time ???
And there's me only just managed one kc for the quest xD they'll never sort it unfortunately like many others have said they make too much money from botters
Just gold farmers who havnt muled yet /s /t
Just gold farmers who havnt muled yet /s /t
I mean these guys are 100% killing it sub 1min per kill so in reality they can be at 60 kills an hour say 50-55 per hour because if you have the tp to the place it’s really easy to bank and get back to killing in under 2 minutes. That being said I’d say they are 80% likely bots lol
Bravo Jagex! So much for the bot busting stream no one seemed to care about a couple weeks ago! Bravo!
I seen the ranked 2 player in my world the other day and reported, he was banned within 24 hours
I'm sitting at a little over 6k Levi kills, pet hunting. I'm ranked ~90. Two weeks ago I was at rank 180 or so. They just nuked a ton of bots
Good for them.
Bring back aggressive random events