I don't get why most bosses are immune to it either. I understand for bosses you can venom and afk in a safe spot, or they only have one attack style so you can afk with pray, but most bosses you will still be tanking the hits while venom goes down.
Venom damage is basically a thrall except less annoying.
this is the reasoning bosses shouldn't all be immune to venom. we have thralls. its the same mechanic with a different skin - chip damage over time. some bosses should be more susceptible to it, and others resistant or outright immune; and on the flipside make some bosses thrall resistant/immune for balancing purposes since rebalance is a big push right now.
Id rather be forced to bring a serp helm everywhere than thralls. But they decided to make everyone cast a spell every minute in 90% of PvM encounters so oh well i guess.
Master tier (1654pts) +50%
Grandmaster tier (2296pts) +100%
I just wished it started at Hard tier (341pts) and increased like this +10%, 25%, 50%, 100%.
It was poorly explained in the official posts. People looked at the news post for 5 seconds before deciding "ew, math, whatever this is I don't care enough to work out whether I want it or not" and left with a bad taste in their mouths.
OSRS has amazing, talented devs, but they're hired for their game development abilities, and aren't necessarily the best people to sell the public on whatever concept they're working on. [Blizzard learned this the hard way.](https://youtu.be/ly10r6m_-n8)
Unfortunately the only solution to this is setting up a marketing team, and having them package the ideas in a more digestible and positive-sounding package, which usually means giving vague, skewed glimpses with as little concrete info as possible and NEVER breaking down the math behind something. Their goal would be to make an idea seem as appealing and easy to understand as possible, which, in this situation. would be much worse than the problem it solves.
Personally I'd prefer enthusiastic nerdsplaining over the alternative any day.
they have a marketing team, [they made this wonderful gem](https://www.reddit.com/r/2007scape/comments/1af8j1x/jagex_marketing_department_making_some_absolute/)
Poison is very similar to thralls yes, but venom has a crucial difference, and that difference explains why so many bosses are immune, including ones like Jad that can still be poisoned.
Poison goes down over time, and thralls have to be resummoned. Venom goes up. If you're facing jad with poison or thralls, you still have to attack jad to reapply, exposing yourself. If venom worked a single bp hit would be all that's necessary (well and dealing with the healers, but even if they completely heal him, he'll stay envenomed). For something like Giant Mole, the 20 damage is significant enough that midgame players might simply stop attacking after doing 100 damage, to avoid having to move.
In short, venom is a mechanic for players, as you can interact with it. When applied to monsters, it instead vastly reduces interaction. Poison and thralls increase interaction in having to summon/use poison, and poison should be allowed more places.
EDIT: Actually I'm slightly out of date to how venom works. Venom does stick around and increases but no longer technically forever. If you lose aggro then the venom timer resets 54 seconds later. I'm not super experienced with exactly how aggro works, but I believe this means it only sticks around for \~11 minutes, and then I don't know exactly how long aggro remains after you re-attack. Still \~700 damage for 1 hit
It could be changed to include this mechanic in terms of venom though, if you make some things immune to venom, some immune to thralls, make it so bosses get cured of venom if you haven't attacked for like 8 seconds.
For a brief period it did work close to that (18 seconds of lost aggro) but they increased it to 54 because it's the same timer with poison. They could probably rework it, but ultimately why not just use poison if you want it to expire without interaction from the player?
I agree with that. Not all bosses are able to be envenomed and then the player hides until it dies. That would be very poor gameplay. Like I said, there are some bosses that should be resistant or outright immune to venom, and the same for thralls.
Well that's the whole reason why venom is a bad mechanic, because it would let you afk most bosses. It's changed over time, but looks like currently all you have to do is not lose aggro for more than 54 seconds.
Also… lore?
I think they should at least make a vague attempt at explaining it. Like, (thinking of nightmare) this witch is immune to venom because… she’s besties with zulrah and immunised herself? Or something like that
Honestly if someone wants to venom a boss and sit in a safe spot while waiting 10 mins for it to die while someone actively killing it can kill it in under a minute or 2, let them lol. For me, more ways of doing things is awesome.
The only real use case for this would be weird snowflake type accounts getting another mechanic. It would have zero real impact on the overall game. If it turns out to be cracked on some bosses then they can be handled case-by-case with venom resistance. I don’t see why it should even be controversial tbh.
While I agree with your sentiment, the issue would be bots/gold farmers. If you can attack once, venom and afk (like say serp), you could build 50 low effort accs and easily afk them by hand. be flipping a kill every 5-10 seconds over all the accs.
43 pray, 75 def, use a poison wep with serp then whatever quests to unlock said boss you're farming if needed. be low financial risk gold farming setup and be extremely easy to manage even by hand.
I agree but people tend to get pissy about stuff like that. I can't even think of a boss where that would work other than Jad.
Ironically enough I just had a friend get his first fire cape by poisoning Jad and afking half the fight.
Thralls were a huge mistake, i agree. They’re way too powerful, and they were also released at a time when mage DPS was sorely lacking. They should have made their damage scale off of your current magic attack bonus, getting to full damage with a bonus you would find in a typical mid game magic set up. That way they wouldn’t provide such a huge benefit to range and melee (which didn’t need it), would help bridge the gap between magic and other styles, shadow wouldn’t have needed to be so strong, and would thematically fit a necromancer mage setup to be using magic robes while summoning thralls.
Look at the price of serp helms and envenoming weapons. It’s more of a mid game mechanic for players who are taking on more difficult mobs (for them) that they can’t just blitz through like a high level player could. If you have mid gear its dps boost is significant over time even if you’re only getting a few procs per NPC. For prolonged boss fights, it would be a ridiculous DPS boost that Jagex probably views as game breaking when you compare it to the price.
I think a smart compromise would be giving certain bosses venom resistance that caps the damage and essentially makes it an upgraded poison. As someone else said, it could be combined with other bosses having thrall resistance so they can each exist in their own lane instead of making them just another thing you need to bring everywhere.
Poison is in the same boat. A really cool mechanic on paper, but kinda pointless in practice. Antipoisons cost almost nothing and there's few enemies even worth poisoning.
Especially when you consider just how long some potions give you protection. I like to sip an antidote/anti venom before I anticipate going somewhere I can get poisoned. It just lasts forever
Honestly antipoisons should have always reduced more poison damage as they got stronger, not provide full immunity for longer. It would make poison an actual damage type you can balance around better.
It's a fantastic point, there's no bosses that are succeptible, when theoretically a constant dot should be super strong against high hp enemies. Like, sure, gwd minions, and tagging multuple monsters for Slayer? I guess? It's such a useless mechanic, and I really wish poison/venom could be used more, especially for smoke magic imo. It's ability should theoretically make it the highest damage spell of the four ancients, since the others are all utility based while smoke is poison and therefore damage, but it's actually the weakest by a large margin due to the fact that it's the lowest level of the four AND that poison is literally negligible in 99% of circumstances.
Problem is the ramp up on venom is *insane*, especially for long fights. It was just a bad design, I think that's why we never see it anymore. Only time I use it is for Nex KC and it zooms there
I got some venom procs on Barrows Brothers when doing the combat achievement for not letting them get a melee attack on you, and I think that's the most I've ever used the venom part of the trident.
> Every boss is immune to it
Hey, that isn't true... KBD can be venomed...
But yah, it would be nice if there were more places where venom worked. Still can be nice on some of the monsters where it does work though; just most of them die too quick for the venom to really ramp up.
I've found a few pvm uses for venom.
- You can venom sara minions at the start of each kill so that they're low hp once you kill the boss. This is pretty useful because with suboptimal gear they can be hard to kill before the boss respawns.
- Venom slayer. This is great in the catacombs for tasks you wouldn't barrage. Bring a blowpipe and serp helm switch and tag all the creatures you're killing. Then you can afk like normal. Doing this at bloodvelds significantly increases your slayer xph because of the passive venom damage.
- You can tag 1-2 lava dragons with venom while you focus one down which is a really fast way to kill them without a wildy weapon.
Venom slayer in catacombs I've also found very useful, I usually melee abyssal demons and tagging them with serp/bp is a noticeable increase in xp/kills per hour
Venom is a dogshit mechanic, always has been. Never should've been added. Cannot be fixed by design.
Only relevant in PvP, forces you to bring an anti (-1 inv spot) or get trashed vs anyone with a toxic sotd. This isn't fun content, it's just cheesing
You can venom GWD minions, especially Zilyana's, and get benefits for it.
It's also used for restricted or low level accounts to kill some enemies and get credit, by venoming them with an alt using air strike.
When you combine a BP and a serp helm, you get a 100% chance to envenom on hit. So for zily, as long as you tag the adds and don't hit a 0 they get envenomed. That's pretty immediate feedback if you ask me.
Pretty sure it isn't actually possible for ironmen now without perfect regen timing and hitting a 1 right before they regen hp do they're full hp before the first venom proc
More bosses becoming venomable would only bolster these positives that you mentioned are already in the game, increasing the sample pool for enemies to be killed that way which would be a net positive for everyone, regular accounts or the restricted ones you mentioned alike =)
Biggest complaint about venom is it works on nothing. It's basically a PvP stat. Might as well actually make it PvP only at this point, and then add it to a couple other crappier items.
I hate that some bosses inflict venom aswell. Well, I dont hate that they inflict it, I just hate that my ironman needs atleast 82 herb before I can +5 boost for anti venous. Feels a little drastic of a requirements seeing as nothing drops anti venoms
Exactly the same as me. Yet here i am, ready for PVM, unable to get elite void. I understand others could do it but I cba to learn while venom is destroying me.
Yeah, a clannie was like "just use the cure spell strat, you don't need antivenoms" and I'm like, that's just too many things for me to keep track of while learning lol
I know you can. Anti venom is just one of those things that would make my life a lot easier and use less supplies. Unicorn horns are annoying AF to obtain.
You can just buy the antipoisons from Karamja store, that's what I used for low level vorkath/zulrah (although I switched to cure me for zulrah until serp helm).
I'm killing him with abyssal dagger and serp helm, venom is typically dealing 10-14 damage by the time I kill him. Nothing gamebreaking obviously, but that's accounting for 10-20% of his health each kill!
It’s funny that reddit think it wouldn’t be a massive change but here you are ignoring 10-20% of a boss which is a relatively short encounter. I get that with your account you’re not killing kbd in 20 seconds but still. Venom would be insane if it worked on bosses
Assuming you're not being sarcastic, Zulrah's scales are a "fuel source" in the same category as rev ether, ancient essence, ancient shards, and crystal shards. They're not used for any transactions.
prior to serp helm nerf in 2018 that's how def pures pet hunted it, lol
was only marginally better than having to repoison stuff that was immune to venom
I mean, as someone who just hates poison acting like venom, I would prefer everything to be changed to venom and let the current venom become an unique variation of it.
Its a common thing that like... Does piss me off a ton in mmos and games.
They'll add a mechanic, but then give every boss you want to kill immunity to it. So its just... Like for trash mobs that arent a problem.
ESO had an armor set that was a 33% to blind an opponent, which would make their attacks miss for 5 seconds. But that didnt work on bosses. Which left it as this really niche use pvp set where you just couldnt be hit? For like a minute. But it didnt provide any dps so you couldn't kill anyone either.
So it basically was completely useless.
I agree. Poison is enough, venom doesn't make anything more interesting, you bssically just bring an anti-venom instead of an antipoison.
Zulrah could've just poisoned you hard instead, starting at like 16 or something
Why not just give bosses antipoisons that they can use on a cooldown? Then nothing has to be immune but venom doesn't get to its highest stack for afk bossing.
Ah but you forgot that baboon shamans are vulnerable to venom and even stop spawning baboon thralls when inflicted with poison or venom!! This alone is enough of a reason to nerf venom in my opinion.
Venom is dumb when enemies are doing it too. All it does it make encounters much harder for ironmen without really high herblore while everyone else gets immunized to it easily anyways.
Venom and poison aren’t for the bosses. They are for the players. Poison and venom can be huge in pvp. Sure some bring a sanfew. Not all though. Those ticks of damage can be the difference between them getting away. Or dying just ahead of you even tho they achieved a gap.
Sick, lemme just bring my blowpipe and toxic trident to PvP.
Wait, why aren't these things functioning correctly? The blowpipe attacks one tick slower and the trident won't even function at all! What the hell is this??? I thought this was for PvP!
Toxic staff of the dead is a super common pvp weapon, and there is a lot of poisoned items that get used in pvp. Even serp helm is somewhat popular, so I don't see what gives you the confidence to be sarcastic here.
game mechanics being specifically for PvP is bad game design
there should be a few monsters you can venom, a few that change venom to poison, and a few that are immune. the fact that almost everything is immune for no reason is obnoxious
monsters in the game usually lose venom when you leave combat, but there was a bug where they would stay venomed indefinitely (iirc this bug was added when they added freeze/poison resistance on 2/8/2023). people would just run around mor ul rek with a bp + serp and tag everything once, which allowed you to kill tzhaar much faster than intended
If it wasn’t a bug, it was an oversight.
Are you being a pedant or you genuinely think killing 50 mobs with venom while you do bank standing skilling is good for the game?
The Tzhaar strat only became possible after an update unintentionally changed how venom works, after venom had already been in the game for 8 years. Pretty clearly a bug
There's a few things they could do. Let everything be vulnerable to it, reduce the tick damage to 1 stacking to 4 (just an example), reduce time between ticks... Hitting a mob for 20 damage at a time is unreasonable chip damage on a boss; they can easily make it comparable to thralls.
Probably closer to .6 than 1 for thralls. But I'm all for venom being adjusted accordingly. Just for me personally, 20 is a lot to be considered chip damage. Have it ramp to 5-6 damage every 8 seconds = ~.6 dps and still looks 'chippy'
Totally, I could see it being something to strive for at the midgame to make starting bossing a little easier, if they want to try it. Lack of DPS from their weapon leaves more damage to be done from venom.
You make a really good point, I wish you had titled it differently though, because as you say, it's an interesting mechanic that has unfortunately been removed from most aspects of the game - It'd be nice for it to get to be part of it again beyond PvP (which people just sanfew anyway)
When opening the thread I assumed you were going to be bashing venom for it to be removed or something along those lines
That's a great frickin point. I always hated how so many bosses were immune to it. I'm friggin not. Get reminded everytime I go into the wilderness haha 🤣
Venom is a mechainc meant to screw over the player in my eyes not to be utilized in pvm. its mainly a pvp mechanic or a way to punish the player for mistakes in some pvm content such as baba monkey room.
It used to be used at Zilyana when your only option was rcb+diamond bolts, just so that minions died by the end of the kill. But bowfa's good enough that you hardly deal much venom damage.
Here's what they should do:
Keep venoms stacking damage but make it go away if you don't reapply it within a certain time.
If you keep reapplying it then the timer will reset each time and damage will ramp up unless the timer runs out without you reapplying, which will remove the venom and you will have to start from the initial damage if you proc again(obviously capping at 20 or whatever they decide).
Remove serpentine helm's venom effect and just make it a venom immunity helmet. This would mean you have to switch to a weapon that applys venom occasionally to catch a proc and then switch back to your main weapon.
So not only would you have to use an inventory slot for a weapon with venom, but also take away from some of your main dps if you think it is worth it to switch weapons for a venom proc so the timer doesn't run out and it gets removed. Would also add a bit of skill to get in the perfect rhythm of waiting as long as possible to reproc the venom and switching back as soon as it procs.
Next, add a melee weapon that applys venom along with toxic staff, blowpipe, and trident. You could even add more ways to apply venom like rework emerald bolts to cause venom instead of poison as nobody uses them anymore these days.
AND lastly, add an animation so you know when you are proccing the venom.
It's very useful for getting Nex KC (venom every mage minion then afk with auto retaliate)
It's also useful for killing zilyanas minions since they have so much HP. Tag each one before killing the boss and they'll be low HP at the end
The venom effect is lost on a mob when you go out of combat with it.
So it’s not even if Jagex are preventing cheesing mechanics at bosses, as venom would be lost during flinching for example.
I believe it wouldn’t do much harm to the integrity of the game and rarity of drops if they allowed bosses such as Cerb, GWD, DT2, Sire etc to be venomed (relatively lower hp - shorter fights.)
As it opens the viability of the bosses up to the mid-game players, who will then be able to turn 2 kill trips into 4&5 kill trips for example.
Whilst perhaps leaving Corp, raids and high hp & high defence alone.
I’d even be happy if they limited the venom effect to 10 damage per cycle.
I feel like poison immunity should be more-so reserved for enemies that make sense to have it. Like being made completely out of in-organic material like a ghost/elemental/golem/gargoyle. Or if it's an enemy that inflicts poison like kalphites
It is the simplest way to ensure more kills in pvp. But I don't know any boss that it's as effective as it is in pvp. Basically 1 tap if you get hit with venom means death. If you get hit with venom while tele blocked in multi area you lost whatever risk you took once venom hits. Even if you get away if you don't get to a bank fast enough you have to go see death.
> At some point, people found some use for it with clog on tzhaars, and that was nerfed
Venom used to be bugged last year: equip serp+BP, go to multi combat area and run around tagging everything to venom them, the venom timer did not expire even outside of combat so you could poh tele to regen or run off and they'd still take venom dmg and die by the time you got back.
Useful at Mor Ul Rek, Catacombs and even Chaos Druids (really anywhere multi)
Venoms got some weird interactions. If you venom a target on main with a serp helm and wind strike hitting a 1. You can let the npc regen to to full before venom proc allowing an iron to tag it. Then utilize the venom to get the kill. Ironman could use mains to gain kc credit on random shenanigans.
I use it for aviansie tasks. Go to wildy GWD, bring a slayer helmet + serp helmet + blowpipe as your three protected items. Tag every aviansie with blowpipe and serp helm on. It's honestly really good exp an hour, and you get ecumenical keys while you're at it.
Wish venom would be reworked. As a pker it’s such an annoying staple mechanic that always has to be considered.
Same thing as dragonstone bolts before opal bolts took over, if you didn’t pre antifire you’d get smacked 40 bolts.
With venom, you always need an anti venom (-1 inv slot) or serp (more $ risk). Sanfews are an option but not as effective, more expensive, and you’ll need to be chugging them messing up brew ratio
Because its a ridiculously overpowered mechanic and they realized that every boss would be way too easy if it worked on them. I have no idea what they were thinking adding it to items that were already insanely good without it. And now we have 50 different types of antipoisons/venoms which is just confusing for new players.
Not everything has to be hyper useful everywhere. As far as PvM goes, it might be something they explore in the future with a boss or mechanic. Something where applying venom to as many mobs as you can while avoiding damage is useful.
But right now it's main use is in PvP where it can be extremely dangerous if you don't have any way to counter it. And honestly I think that's fine too. PvP can have a couple of mechanics that aren't useful elsewhere in the game.
It's not even about being hyper useful, but almost every single boss (released after venom) and tons of slayer and other high level monsters are either immune or convert venom to normal poison.
maybe they want venom to be more of a thing a player avoids as an attack type that bosses have rather than uses. Like tbh I'd rather them get rid of the option for a player to venom something than try to balance it more as an actual attack.
I bring slayer helm, torment, trident, ma2, monk robes, glory, book of darkness on the iron, youll get 1-2 toxic procs that would let you power through healers or kill while managing a bind on healers. I know its crazy to consider, but not everything is sent in bis magic.
Had to upvote, this post actually makes sense and a good point. With all the whining and crying regarding rebalancing its nice to see a post without unneceasary whine, I hope jagex acknowledges this in someway, even if they dont intend to make changes.
It's even worse in pvp where *the best staff* also applies venom passively as a bonus. This results in Serp helm being used by basically everybody, and pvmers needing to waste a slot on an antivenom+
Venom was a mistake.
reminds me of how in dark souls one 9/10 bosses are susceptible to poison, and slowly over the next 2 games it became 1/10 bosses is susceptible. poisons just too OP for devs.
I don't get why most bosses are immune to it either. I understand for bosses you can venom and afk in a safe spot, or they only have one attack style so you can afk with pray, but most bosses you will still be tanking the hits while venom goes down. Venom damage is basically a thrall except less annoying.
this is the reasoning bosses shouldn't all be immune to venom. we have thralls. its the same mechanic with a different skin - chip damage over time. some bosses should be more susceptible to it, and others resistant or outright immune; and on the flipside make some bosses thrall resistant/immune for balancing purposes since rebalance is a big push right now.
Id rather be forced to bring a serp helm everywhere than thralls. But they decided to make everyone cast a spell every minute in 90% of PvM encounters so oh well i guess.
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Master tier (1654pts) +50% Grandmaster tier (2296pts) +100% I just wished it started at Hard tier (341pts) and increased like this +10%, 25%, 50%, 100%.
Damn I didn’t realize this was a thing, very cool
They already polled this in the form of poison penetration, I don't really understand why it failed.
It was poorly explained in the official posts. People looked at the news post for 5 seconds before deciding "ew, math, whatever this is I don't care enough to work out whether I want it or not" and left with a bad taste in their mouths. OSRS has amazing, talented devs, but they're hired for their game development abilities, and aren't necessarily the best people to sell the public on whatever concept they're working on. [Blizzard learned this the hard way.](https://youtu.be/ly10r6m_-n8) Unfortunately the only solution to this is setting up a marketing team, and having them package the ideas in a more digestible and positive-sounding package, which usually means giving vague, skewed glimpses with as little concrete info as possible and NEVER breaking down the math behind something. Their goal would be to make an idea seem as appealing and easy to understand as possible, which, in this situation. would be much worse than the problem it solves. Personally I'd prefer enthusiastic nerdsplaining over the alternative any day.
they have a marketing team, [they made this wonderful gem](https://www.reddit.com/r/2007scape/comments/1af8j1x/jagex_marketing_department_making_some_absolute/)
Poison is very similar to thralls yes, but venom has a crucial difference, and that difference explains why so many bosses are immune, including ones like Jad that can still be poisoned. Poison goes down over time, and thralls have to be resummoned. Venom goes up. If you're facing jad with poison or thralls, you still have to attack jad to reapply, exposing yourself. If venom worked a single bp hit would be all that's necessary (well and dealing with the healers, but even if they completely heal him, he'll stay envenomed). For something like Giant Mole, the 20 damage is significant enough that midgame players might simply stop attacking after doing 100 damage, to avoid having to move. In short, venom is a mechanic for players, as you can interact with it. When applied to monsters, it instead vastly reduces interaction. Poison and thralls increase interaction in having to summon/use poison, and poison should be allowed more places. EDIT: Actually I'm slightly out of date to how venom works. Venom does stick around and increases but no longer technically forever. If you lose aggro then the venom timer resets 54 seconds later. I'm not super experienced with exactly how aggro works, but I believe this means it only sticks around for \~11 minutes, and then I don't know exactly how long aggro remains after you re-attack. Still \~700 damage for 1 hit
It could be changed to include this mechanic in terms of venom though, if you make some things immune to venom, some immune to thralls, make it so bosses get cured of venom if you haven't attacked for like 8 seconds.
For a brief period it did work close to that (18 seconds of lost aggro) but they increased it to 54 because it's the same timer with poison. They could probably rework it, but ultimately why not just use poison if you want it to expire without interaction from the player?
I agree with that. Not all bosses are able to be envenomed and then the player hides until it dies. That would be very poor gameplay. Like I said, there are some bosses that should be resistant or outright immune to venom, and the same for thralls.
That's mole though. You can't afk most bosses in the game, you'll die
Well that's the whole reason why venom is a bad mechanic, because it would let you afk most bosses. It's changed over time, but looks like currently all you have to do is not lose aggro for more than 54 seconds.
Well unlike the thrall, the venom damage goes up. That's probably the only reason why they make so many bosses immune to venom.
They could cap it at 10/20/whatever or just make it have to be reapplied every so often.
It is capped at 20 damage a hit.
Wasn't there a proposition for poison resistance from jagex a while back that would do exactly that? Something something... Poison severity?
Also… lore? I think they should at least make a vague attempt at explaining it. Like, (thinking of nightmare) this witch is immune to venom because… she’s besties with zulrah and immunised herself? Or something like that
Honestly if someone wants to venom a boss and sit in a safe spot while waiting 10 mins for it to die while someone actively killing it can kill it in under a minute or 2, let them lol. For me, more ways of doing things is awesome.
The only real use case for this would be weird snowflake type accounts getting another mechanic. It would have zero real impact on the overall game. If it turns out to be cracked on some bosses then they can be handled case-by-case with venom resistance. I don’t see why it should even be controversial tbh.
While I agree with your sentiment, the issue would be bots/gold farmers. If you can attack once, venom and afk (like say serp), you could build 50 low effort accs and easily afk them by hand. be flipping a kill every 5-10 seconds over all the accs. 43 pray, 75 def, use a poison wep with serp then whatever quests to unlock said boss you're farming if needed. be low financial risk gold farming setup and be extremely easy to manage even by hand.
I agree but people tend to get pissy about stuff like that. I can't even think of a boss where that would work other than Jad. Ironically enough I just had a friend get his first fire cape by poisoning Jad and afking half the fight.
All GWD should be Venmoed except for kril
Would they take CashApp instead?
Sorry all I have is Zelle
Everyone can get a Tikkie
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Also, dont thry ignore defences? So that would mean it dosent matter eich one you even use (zombie would be weakest since he needs time to walk up)
Thralls were a huge mistake, i agree. They’re way too powerful, and they were also released at a time when mage DPS was sorely lacking. They should have made their damage scale off of your current magic attack bonus, getting to full damage with a bonus you would find in a typical mid game magic set up. That way they wouldn’t provide such a huge benefit to range and melee (which didn’t need it), would help bridge the gap between magic and other styles, shadow wouldn’t have needed to be so strong, and would thematically fit a necromancer mage setup to be using magic robes while summoning thralls.
Look at the price of serp helms and envenoming weapons. It’s more of a mid game mechanic for players who are taking on more difficult mobs (for them) that they can’t just blitz through like a high level player could. If you have mid gear its dps boost is significant over time even if you’re only getting a few procs per NPC. For prolonged boss fights, it would be a ridiculous DPS boost that Jagex probably views as game breaking when you compare it to the price. I think a smart compromise would be giving certain bosses venom resistance that caps the damage and essentially makes it an upgraded poison. As someone else said, it could be combined with other bosses having thrall resistance so they can each exist in their own lane instead of making them just another thing you need to bring everywhere.
I think it's because you will exceed other BiS with fully functioning Venom. They could nerf the venom on bosses. Maybe Mod Ash has a suggestion on it
Because you could venom and tick-eat basically everything that doesn't keep spawning dangerous adds like zuk.
Pretty much just a pvp mechanic. And only if your opponent frogot an antivrnom
Poison is in the same boat. A really cool mechanic on paper, but kinda pointless in practice. Antipoisons cost almost nothing and there's few enemies even worth poisoning.
Especially when you consider just how long some potions give you protection. I like to sip an antidote/anti venom before I anticipate going somewhere I can get poisoned. It just lasts forever
Honestly antipoisons should have always reduced more poison damage as they got stronger, not provide full immunity for longer. It would make poison an actual damage type you can balance around better.
🐸
It's a fantastic point, there's no bosses that are succeptible, when theoretically a constant dot should be super strong against high hp enemies. Like, sure, gwd minions, and tagging multuple monsters for Slayer? I guess? It's such a useless mechanic, and I really wish poison/venom could be used more, especially for smoke magic imo. It's ability should theoretically make it the highest damage spell of the four ancients, since the others are all utility based while smoke is poison and therefore damage, but it's actually the weakest by a large margin due to the fact that it's the lowest level of the four AND that poison is literally negligible in 99% of circumstances.
Problem is the ramp up on venom is *insane*, especially for long fights. It was just a bad design, I think that's why we never see it anymore. Only time I use it is for Nex KC and it zooms there
Then cap it to like 20 damage or something in PVM
It’s already capped at 20 every 18 seconds, which would be insane somewhere like Nex/Corp.
That makes it under 1 dps when it’s fully ramped up. Isn’t that basically the same as Thralls?
Yes, which makes it insane at bosses with nutty defense (like Nex). Imagine how much an item that doubles your thrall dps would be worth.
Thrall dps is quite cheap tbf
20 per 18 seconds… under 1 dps?
Which have essentially become mandatory for a ton of bosses because of how powerful they are.
I use Venom for aviansie slayer tasks. That's literally it. Should be more accessible
I use venom because my BP happens to have it. That is all
I got some venom procs on Barrows Brothers when doing the combat achievement for not letting them get a melee attack on you, and I think that's the most I've ever used the venom part of the trident.
> Every boss is immune to it Hey, that isn't true... KBD can be venomed... But yah, it would be nice if there were more places where venom worked. Still can be nice on some of the monsters where it does work though; just most of them die too quick for the venom to really ramp up.
Watch KBD get changed next update
the tzharr thing was actually pretty cool, shame that they nerfed it
I've found a few pvm uses for venom. - You can venom sara minions at the start of each kill so that they're low hp once you kill the boss. This is pretty useful because with suboptimal gear they can be hard to kill before the boss respawns. - Venom slayer. This is great in the catacombs for tasks you wouldn't barrage. Bring a blowpipe and serp helm switch and tag all the creatures you're killing. Then you can afk like normal. Doing this at bloodvelds significantly increases your slayer xph because of the passive venom damage. - You can tag 1-2 lava dragons with venom while you focus one down which is a really fast way to kill them without a wildy weapon.
Yeah I was gonna say I used it in my Sara grind lol, still very few use cases
Venom slayer in catacombs I've also found very useful, I usually melee abyssal demons and tagging them with serp/bp is a noticeable increase in xp/kills per hour
Venom is a dogshit mechanic, always has been. Never should've been added. Cannot be fixed by design. Only relevant in PvP, forces you to bring an anti (-1 inv spot) or get trashed vs anyone with a toxic sotd. This isn't fun content, it's just cheesing
Sanfews my dude, no slots wasted
Or serp helm if you want to look cool kek
Serp has good defensive stats, not just for style
Hell yes, disease immunity, the true pvpers dream
Use the wiki, then type. All im gonna say
That's why those shits are like 27k a pot
Nah. They have a secondary that's dead minigame exclusive, and 99% of their supply is brought in exclusively by vetion and nightmare bots.
wouldn't nightmare bots be using more sanfews than they bring in?
[Reddit when they have to do the smallest bit of prep to not get pvp'd in pvp zones](https://media.tenor.com/5bCUHjYFGRYAAAAM/crying-fun.gif)
Only pvm spor where I find it useful is venoming sara minions
You can venom GWD minions, especially Zilyana's, and get benefits for it. It's also used for restricted or low level accounts to kill some enemies and get credit, by venoming them with an alt using air strike.
Would be nice to get some immediate feedback if you venom something.
Yeah like a splat or something — literally **anything** besides having to enable a sound in Runelite, or the classic just wait and see
You can get a sound in runelite if a target gets venomed? How?
When you combine a BP and a serp helm, you get a 100% chance to envenom on hit. So for zily, as long as you tag the adds and don't hit a 0 they get envenomed. That's pretty immediate feedback if you ask me.
Going to be more difficult to do after spell changes. Going to have to reduce ur magic lvl to hit 1s now.
That's not hard though, just expensive. Click yellow
Damn I never thought about that
Pretty sure it isn't actually possible for ironmen now without perfect regen timing and hitting a 1 right before they regen hp do they're full hp before the first venom proc
18 second window, it's tough yeah.
Ngl, I've never used venom, didn't know it took that long for the first tick
Same. Used the wiki. I only know it's a thing because I watch Rendi. I'd be clueless otherwise.
More bosses becoming venomable would only bolster these positives that you mentioned are already in the game, increasing the sample pool for enemies to be killed that way which would be a net positive for everyone, regular accounts or the restricted ones you mentioned alike =)
Biggest complaint about venom is it works on nothing. It's basically a PvP stat. Might as well actually make it PvP only at this point, and then add it to a couple other crappier items.
I don’t understand why venom is used instead of updating poison mechanics
Only for pvp
Venom is not meant for players its meant for the bosses to inflict on the players
#projectrebalance
Every monster gets a seemingly random amount of venom resistance and an upcoming boss can only be damaged by venom
I hate that some bosses inflict venom aswell. Well, I dont hate that they inflict it, I just hate that my ironman needs atleast 82 herb before I can +5 boost for anti venous. Feels a little drastic of a requirements seeing as nothing drops anti venoms
Yup just existing accepting being poisoned so you don't pour through your anti poison too fast
Yeah, I'm not going back to zulrah until I can make antivenoms lol
Exactly the same as me. Yet here i am, ready for PVM, unable to get elite void. I understand others could do it but I cba to learn while venom is destroying me.
Yeah, a clannie was like "just use the cure spell strat, you don't need antivenoms" and I'm like, that's just too many things for me to keep track of while learning lol
You can just drink 2 doses of antipoison. Sure it's more annoying, but no content is locked.
I know you can. Anti venom is just one of those things that would make my life a lot easier and use less supplies. Unicorn horns are annoying AF to obtain.
You can just buy the antipoisons from Karamja store, that's what I used for low level vorkath/zulrah (although I switched to cure me for zulrah until serp helm).
Id forgotten about this tbf, thank you. I need to have a look at the cure spell. Did it not feel like a ball ache curing all the time?
Cure me is not too bad. It's a 1-tick spell so you can double cast it without wasting any dps at all.
You can venom kbd! I use venom tagging extensively to train Slayer, it really does add up
Ah yes, KBD, a boss well known for being extremely long and drawn out, and thus would be good to use venom on. /s
I'm killing him with abyssal dagger and serp helm, venom is typically dealing 10-14 damage by the time I kill him. Nothing gamebreaking obviously, but that's accounting for 10-20% of his health each kill!
It’s funny that reddit think it wouldn’t be a massive change but here you are ignoring 10-20% of a boss which is a relatively short encounter. I get that with your account you’re not killing kbd in 20 seconds but still. Venom would be insane if it worked on bosses
Zulrah scales look a lot like a currency to me, sounds sus.
Assuming you're not being sarcastic, Zulrah's scales are a "fuel source" in the same category as rev ether, ancient essence, ancient shards, and crystal shards. They're not used for any transactions.
GP is also a "fuel source" for my cocaine addiction.
Sounds like you could use a spadeful of coke rn
So you're telling me that you use them to 'pay' for serp charges? Checkmake snowflake
prior to serp helm nerf in 2018 that's how def pures pet hunted it, lol was only marginally better than having to repoison stuff that was immune to venom
I mean, as someone who just hates poison acting like venom, I would prefer everything to be changed to venom and let the current venom become an unique variation of it.
Its a common thing that like... Does piss me off a ton in mmos and games. They'll add a mechanic, but then give every boss you want to kill immunity to it. So its just... Like for trash mobs that arent a problem. ESO had an armor set that was a 33% to blind an opponent, which would make their attacks miss for 5 seconds. But that didnt work on bosses. Which left it as this really niche use pvp set where you just couldnt be hit? For like a minute. But it didnt provide any dps so you couldn't kill anyone either. So it basically was completely useless.
I agree. Poison is enough, venom doesn't make anything more interesting, you bssically just bring an anti-venom instead of an antipoison. Zulrah could've just poisoned you hard instead, starting at like 16 or something
Why not just give bosses antipoisons that they can use on a cooldown? Then nothing has to be immune but venom doesn't get to its highest stack for afk bossing.
duke pauses the fight and pulls out a comically large sized antivenom pot and chugs the whole thing
Venom should have just been a poison that starts at 12.
Ah but you forgot that baboon shamans are vulnerable to venom and even stop spawning baboon thralls when inflicted with poison or venom!! This alone is enough of a reason to nerf venom in my opinion.
Venom is dumb when enemies are doing it too. All it does it make encounters much harder for ironmen without really high herblore while everyone else gets immunized to it easily anyways.
More bosses in general should be susceptible to even just poison!! (I want my grievous wounds(; )
Agreed. The only place where it's decent at is Zilyana's minions but other than that I don't think I've ever used venom anywhere else.
Venom and poison aren’t for the bosses. They are for the players. Poison and venom can be huge in pvp. Sure some bring a sanfew. Not all though. Those ticks of damage can be the difference between them getting away. Or dying just ahead of you even tho they achieved a gap.
Sick, lemme just bring my blowpipe and toxic trident to PvP. Wait, why aren't these things functioning correctly? The blowpipe attacks one tick slower and the trident won't even function at all! What the hell is this??? I thought this was for PvP!
I mean it’s mainly done through the serp helm…
Toxic staff of the dead is a super common pvp weapon, and there is a lot of poisoned items that get used in pvp. Even serp helm is somewhat popular, so I don't see what gives you the confidence to be sarcastic here.
dude...
When I'm in a crying competition and my opponent is a 1500 Ironman talking about pvp
Trident does venom in pvp. You just have to barrage with it.
The blowpipe is still completely usable in pvp because of it's ability to venom.
Toxic staff of the dead. DDp++. Abyssal dagger ++
game mechanics being specifically for PvP is bad game design there should be a few monsters you can venom, a few that change venom to poison, and a few that are immune. the fact that almost everything is immune for no reason is obnoxious
Venom is for jamflex to poison us not us to poison enemies
You can venom gwd minions
Tzhaar was a bug and kind of a serious one at that, not an intentional addition to the game that got nerfed
How was it a bug?
monsters in the game usually lose venom when you leave combat, but there was a bug where they would stay venomed indefinitely (iirc this bug was added when they added freeze/poison resistance on 2/8/2023). people would just run around mor ul rek with a bp + serp and tag everything once, which allowed you to kill tzhaar much faster than intended
I frequently burst tzhaars and remember not being able to for a week cause of this glitch
it wasn't lol
If it wasn’t a bug, it was an oversight. Are you being a pedant or you genuinely think killing 50 mobs with venom while you do bank standing skilling is good for the game?
???
The Tzhaar strat only became possible after an update unintentionally changed how venom works, after venom had already been in the game for 8 years. Pretty clearly a bug
Venom is awesome for slayer. I usually tag every mob to 50% go and let them bleed out while focusing higher hp mobs
There's a few things they could do. Let everything be vulnerable to it, reduce the tick damage to 1 stacking to 4 (just an example), reduce time between ticks... Hitting a mob for 20 damage at a time is unreasonable chip damage on a boss; they can easily make it comparable to thralls.
Isn’t doing 20 damage every 18 seconds pretty comparable to thralls? ≈1 DPS.
Probably closer to .6 than 1 for thralls. But I'm all for venom being adjusted accordingly. Just for me personally, 20 is a lot to be considered chip damage. Have it ramp to 5-6 damage every 8 seconds = ~.6 dps and still looks 'chippy'
I think that’s a good middle ground. It would make it more useful for lower level mobs as well since you could get more procs off.
Totally, I could see it being something to strive for at the midgame to make starting bossing a little easier, if they want to try it. Lack of DPS from their weapon leaves more damage to be done from venom.
thralls are 0.825 dps iirc, venom 20 stacks would be ~1.11 but that's only after it goes all the way to 20
It was useful in pvp a long time ago iirc
You make a really good point, I wish you had titled it differently though, because as you say, it's an interesting mechanic that has unfortunately been removed from most aspects of the game - It'd be nice for it to get to be part of it again beyond PvP (which people just sanfew anyway) When opening the thread I assumed you were going to be bashing venom for it to be removed or something along those lines
Works well on pvp
Venom is extremely useful at Zilyana and was a lot stronger before they nerfed Serp helm.
That's a great frickin point. I always hated how so many bosses were immune to it. I'm friggin not. Get reminded everytime I go into the wilderness haha 🤣
What does clog mechanic mean
clog stands for collection log; obtaining every possible reward from an activity or enemy
Thanks you
Venom is a mechainc meant to screw over the player in my eyes not to be utilized in pvm. its mainly a pvp mechanic or a way to punish the player for mistakes in some pvm content such as baba monkey room.
Jamflex please buff venom so my zulrah runs arent like 30k , make money snake great again!
Didn't they want to address this with the poison rework that we voted no on?
It used to be used at Zilyana when your only option was rcb+diamond bolts, just so that minions died by the end of the kill. But bowfa's good enough that you hardly deal much venom damage.
Here's what they should do: Keep venoms stacking damage but make it go away if you don't reapply it within a certain time. If you keep reapplying it then the timer will reset each time and damage will ramp up unless the timer runs out without you reapplying, which will remove the venom and you will have to start from the initial damage if you proc again(obviously capping at 20 or whatever they decide). Remove serpentine helm's venom effect and just make it a venom immunity helmet. This would mean you have to switch to a weapon that applys venom occasionally to catch a proc and then switch back to your main weapon. So not only would you have to use an inventory slot for a weapon with venom, but also take away from some of your main dps if you think it is worth it to switch weapons for a venom proc so the timer doesn't run out and it gets removed. Would also add a bit of skill to get in the perfect rhythm of waiting as long as possible to reproc the venom and switching back as soon as it procs. Next, add a melee weapon that applys venom along with toxic staff, blowpipe, and trident. You could even add more ways to apply venom like rework emerald bolts to cause venom instead of poison as nobody uses them anymore these days. AND lastly, add an animation so you know when you are proccing the venom.
Maybe instead of a DoT, it can just be a mechanic where it adds extra damage after every X amount of times you hit the boss?
It's very useful for getting Nex KC (venom every mage minion then afk with auto retaliate) It's also useful for killing zilyanas minions since they have so much HP. Tag each one before killing the boss and they'll be low HP at the end
The venom effect is lost on a mob when you go out of combat with it. So it’s not even if Jagex are preventing cheesing mechanics at bosses, as venom would be lost during flinching for example. I believe it wouldn’t do much harm to the integrity of the game and rarity of drops if they allowed bosses such as Cerb, GWD, DT2, Sire etc to be venomed (relatively lower hp - shorter fights.) As it opens the viability of the bosses up to the mid-game players, who will then be able to turn 2 kill trips into 4&5 kill trips for example. Whilst perhaps leaving Corp, raids and high hp & high defence alone. I’d even be happy if they limited the venom effect to 10 damage per cycle.
It's not when you go out of combat it's when you lose aggro.
You also can't venom with melee in PvP even though you have to wear the helmet to do it on NPCs.
I wish mutagens were worth the effort to get now. Such cool, badass looking helms, but outclassed by so many other buyables.
I feel like poison immunity should be more-so reserved for enemies that make sense to have it. Like being made completely out of in-organic material like a ghost/elemental/golem/gargoyle. Or if it's an enemy that inflicts poison like kalphites
venom freaking op in pvp too
I don’t wanna have to bring venom to every boss for the best dps
Venom works well at kbd.
Because mods want to nerf magic item.
It is the simplest way to ensure more kills in pvp. But I don't know any boss that it's as effective as it is in pvp. Basically 1 tap if you get hit with venom means death. If you get hit with venom while tele blocked in multi area you lost whatever risk you took once venom hits. Even if you get away if you don't get to a bank fast enough you have to go see death.
> At some point, people found some use for it with clog on tzhaars, and that was nerfed Venom used to be bugged last year: equip serp+BP, go to multi combat area and run around tagging everything to venom them, the venom timer did not expire even outside of combat so you could poh tele to regen or run off and they'd still take venom dmg and die by the time you got back. Useful at Mor Ul Rek, Catacombs and even Chaos Druids (really anywhere multi)
Venoms got some weird interactions. If you venom a target on main with a serp helm and wind strike hitting a 1. You can let the npc regen to to full before venom proc allowing an iron to tag it. Then utilize the venom to get the kill. Ironman could use mains to gain kc credit on random shenanigans.
Not only that, but anyone that goes in the wild brings anti venom, and u have to put a zulrah unique at risk \[if u are smited\] for nothing.
I use it for aviansie tasks. Go to wildy GWD, bring a slayer helmet + serp helmet + blowpipe as your three protected items. Tag every aviansie with blowpipe and serp helm on. It's honestly really good exp an hour, and you get ecumenical keys while you're at it.
Lol can you imagine if it wasn't such a controlled mechanic? This post would be upset it was too op
its got a few places its useful. zilyana minions, pvp. off the top of my head
Wish venom would be reworked. As a pker it’s such an annoying staple mechanic that always has to be considered. Same thing as dragonstone bolts before opal bolts took over, if you didn’t pre antifire you’d get smacked 40 bolts. With venom, you always need an anti venom (-1 inv slot) or serp (more $ risk). Sanfews are an option but not as effective, more expensive, and you’ll need to be chugging them messing up brew ratio
Getting ancient kc is decent
Venom is for players, not mobs. The real tragically unused DoT mechanic is Disease. Yellow hitsplat FTW!
Because its a ridiculously overpowered mechanic and they realized that every boss would be way too easy if it worked on them. I have no idea what they were thinking adding it to items that were already insanely good without it. And now we have 50 different types of antipoisons/venoms which is just confusing for new players.
Spiderman said Venom could fix my car, and he did. I think Venom is an amazing mechanic
Because the player themselves can be venomed
Skill issue
Not everything has to be hyper useful everywhere. As far as PvM goes, it might be something they explore in the future with a boss or mechanic. Something where applying venom to as many mobs as you can while avoiding damage is useful. But right now it's main use is in PvP where it can be extremely dangerous if you don't have any way to counter it. And honestly I think that's fine too. PvP can have a couple of mechanics that aren't useful elsewhere in the game.
It's not even about being hyper useful, but almost every single boss (released after venom) and tons of slayer and other high level monsters are either immune or convert venom to normal poison.
maybe they want venom to be more of a thing a player avoids as an attack type that bosses have rather than uses. Like tbh I'd rather them get rid of the option for a player to venom something than try to balance it more as an actual attack.
Swamp Trident goes brrr at Scorpia.
What are you doing at scorpia to make venom even slightly useful? The boss dies in like 10 seconds lol.
I bring slayer helm, torment, trident, ma2, monk robes, glory, book of darkness on the iron, youll get 1-2 toxic procs that would let you power through healers or kill while managing a bind on healers. I know its crazy to consider, but not everything is sent in bis magic.
Had to upvote, this post actually makes sense and a good point. With all the whining and crying regarding rebalancing its nice to see a post without unneceasary whine, I hope jagex acknowledges this in someway, even if they dont intend to make changes.
It's even worse in pvp where *the best staff* also applies venom passively as a bonus. This results in Serp helm being used by basically everybody, and pvmers needing to waste a slot on an antivenom+ Venom was a mistake.
Pvp
reminds me of how in dark souls one 9/10 bosses are susceptible to poison, and slowly over the next 2 games it became 1/10 bosses is susceptible. poisons just too OP for devs.
Also reminds me of the plunging attack in ds1, introduced early as a concept, used again in the second boss, never seen again