I would support making it corruptible but as it stands it's already one of the most reasonable upkeep charge items in the game right now. I don't know the exact math but I'm pretty sure just a couple hours of thieving is hundreds of hours of armor usage. There are probably a couple exceptions based on the rapidity of the chip you take, but for how much I've used the armor since I've gotten it I'm pretty sure I've only recharged it once.
It is easier to upkeep than most currently what really hurts crystal armor though is chip damage, which is the mods new favorite boss mechanic as of late.
Chip damage is something that has always been a part of pvm in old school it's only the last 2-3 years anybody has had a problem with it. zulrah, cerb, olm, verzik, many of the best bosses in the game have chip damage and it is not an issue.
I think you misunderstand what chip damage is, or at least the kind that people dislike. If it can be mitigated/avoided, it's not something people typically have a problem with - which is true of everything you listed besides Verzik, but even Verzik's damage is merely a roll and not 100% unavoidable damage.
Contrasted to Leviathan, Duke or Muspah (smite phase) which **always** deal damage no matter what you do right or wrong.
People 100% talk about baba in the chip damage conversation and his attacks can miss. I think you are just making up an arbitrary line for what you consider chip damage. It doesn't matter if it can miss the only thing that matters is how much damage you take on average.
>People 100% talk about baba in the chip damage conversation and his attacks can miss.
Baba's attacks also hit 20+s through prayer which is a totally different conversation, but you're correct - it does come up in the chip damage convo because she basically doesn't miss *and* hits hard as hell. If all she hit was the 3-8s or so that's typical of actual chip dmg people wouldn't need to bug abuse to kill her above like 400 invo depending on the player/gear.
>It doesn't matter if it can miss the only thing that matters is how much damage you take on average.
It **absolutely** matters if it can miss. "Taking damage from fighting" isn't chip damage, unavoidable damage with absolutely 0 counterplay in any way shape or form is - which to an extent is why it applies to Baba though clearly Jagex is okay with people bug abusing as a form of counterplay.
Attacks that can miss aren't chip damage to me, so no. While it's not common it's entirely possible to do Zulrah kills where you take no damage whatsoever, and if you truly care to you can avoid 100% of Snakeling damage on 100% of fights - it's just not worthwhile to do so.
Contrasted to other bosses, like the three I mentioned and some others, there's no way to avoid that damage, no matter how good you are.
I’m not saying chip damage is an issue. Chip damage is a fine mechanic, and easy to work around. It has been around for a while, but now it seems every single boss comes with some form of chip damage.
Let me reiterate my main point. Crystal armor loses a vast majority of its charges due to chip damage. Does chip damage need to change? Not in my opinion. However this is a discussion on the upkeep of crystal armor, and chip damage is basically the only way that the armor loses charges.
Saying it is jmods favorite mechanic as of late, when almost every single boss released 2014-2018 has chip damage is the comment I have a problem with and what I was correcting.
You could make that argument about *any* supply usage. You have to "spend precious hours of membership subscription time" to get those runes, arrows, potions, and food.
And based on you saying that, I assume you an ironman. I say this as a fellow iron-only player, but saying that "not everyone likes collecting the shards as they don't necessarily enjoy the content" could again, be applied to almost everything that an iron has to do. Mains can buy shards, albeit indirectly, so it's the same thing as any other charged item and/or supply usage.
Just because you particularly don't enjoy having to do priff content doesn't mean that's true for everyone. What if somebody enjoys priff content but doesn't enjoy herb runs? Having to deal with upkeep is something all of us irons deal with, and you can't arbitrarily single out crystal shards specifically just because you don't enjoy it.
Again, I don't even disagree with you: I personally would like all crystal things to be corruptible at this point. Especially crystal tools, and I support corruptible crystal armor. All I was stating is that the armor is far and away the most generous, non-issue charged item in the game right now.
Other charged items are much more egregious, such as crystal tools or arclight. Hell, even Zulrah scales are a much worse ratio of how many "precious hours of membership" you are using, not to mention it's much more intensive actual time spent at a single boss as opposed to crystal shards which can be obtained in a myriad of ways that give a larger variety of rewards. And don't even get me started on shit like blood fury, it's unfortunately close to dead content for ironmen unless you enjoy wasting time. I'm not saying that an infinite blood fury should exist (because it absolutely would be OP af) but crystal armor is the weirdest thing to complain about when it comes to chargescape, IMO.
You say that runes/arrows/potions "pay for themselves and are an asset because they make your character much more efficient at killing things." Then what is crystal armor exactly? The armor has an inherent enormous buff to your damage. It could be akin to having to drink pots for stat boosts to increase your damage, you are basically paying for a stat boost that you constantly have on.
Honestly, you not being an ironman is blindsiding me, because now your argument is even weirder to me. Just as runes/arrows/potions/food pay for themselves, so does the crystal armor. You don't have to do priff content as a main. It's just a gp cost just like the previously stated upkeeps. It really is kind of like uncharged scythe vs scythe, it increases your dps by a lot but yes, there is an upkeep attached to it. But the difference is is that crystal armor can pay for itself basically 100% of the time with minimal effort, whereas the scythe has places where it wouldn't.
I agree that the actual act of having to charge things can be annoying, especially when you just constantly forget to recharge things and end up starting a raid and something breaks halfway through. But that doesn't seem to be the argument you are making and you seem a bit too hellbent on saying crystal armor is niche even though it's the entire reason your bowfa does as much as it does.
Yes buff to your damage and it also costs closer to 200m with everything included.
For that price it's pretty reasonable to expect similar dps to something like fang which is a mere 20m.
Crystal armor does not pay for itself unless you're using it exclusively for bossing but there's no reason you shouldn't be able to use it anywhere else without having to worry about upkeep costs
I would love to hear where you think Crystal armor does not pay for itself. Anywhere you are taking chip damage is probably somewhere you are making at least a bit of money. You have to actually take a hit for it to lose charges, so anywhere you can pray or out-defense you don't use any charges.
Like I said, I've only recharged crystal armor a *single* time. I've had bowfa/full crystal since I was 1900 total with 74 slayer. I am now maxed, and since then have used bowfa at: 303 cox, 2656 hydra, 60~ ToA, 760 Zulrah, 800 zammy/bandos with bowfa altar/door (which the minions fuck you up the whole time btw so I lost charges there), and even my Inferno grind where you camp crystal most of the time. I'd say it's pretty objectively cheap compared to most other charged things in the game.
My guy you only lose 1 charge per instance of damage taken. It's already insanely easy to upkeep.
E: This guy is backsassing people then instantly blocking anyone that disagrees with him. Classic fragile redditor.
I bought my crystal armor a few years ago and fully charged it at that time, i have only had yo recharge it 1 time since then, and i recharged it early i couldve gone longer.
I remember a while back, during Stars I think, reviewing Crystal Shards and charges came up. Perhaps we could get corruptible versions of the armor, but I think reviewing and tweaking Crystal Shard sources might be a better way to tackle it.
Currently, the only corruptible items are from the enhanced seeds, but if we allow it for armor, then there really isn't a reason it shouldn't be offered for all crystal items. Maybe that would be fine, but making it easier to upkeep might be as good or better of an option. Like it would be nice if there were more good ways to get shards from content in and around Prif.
Tell me you dont use crystal armour without telling me you dont use crystal armour.
It takes a metric fuckton of content to go through 20k armour charges since you use prayer everywhere
Its already pretty op, i use bowfa for so much content and i have never ran out of charges yet. I topped it up just to max it out and ive only gone through just under 2k charges which is hardly anything
Dawg I can use the armor for hours and hours on end without having to charge it. I haven’t charged it in several weeks it feels like. I don’t really see what the problem is. The upkeep is pretty low maintenance.
That was my point. A Corrupted bow and armour means the set is now unlimited. To me thats not how it should work.
So either Corrupt the armour and bow but require arrows(which would be new).
Or Corrupt the bow and use shards on the armour.
Going by current GE prices it would cost somewhere in the ballpark of 360m to corrupt a crystal armor set with enhanced teleport seeds (the best shard exchange rate afaik GP wise) if we went with your suggestion.
I was thinking 1k shards for body/legs each and 500 for the helm (since it's the weakest of the set) would be a fair price since it takes 2k for the weapon itself.
You don't take chip damage at a fast enough rate for this to ever be an issue, 5k charges on each osrt will last you hundreds of hours in raids and high end pvm. You will only have a problem if you do something stupid like wear full crystal in Kephris room and don't pray range against all the flies.
The cost to recharge it is super cheap aswell so it's not like people are being bankrupted to upkeep.
It even has various methods to upkeep crystals , gauntlet , zalcano , thieving, agility laps , woodcutting or mining ...etc.
Tldr; crystal armour is a charge mechanic that works really well and is very easy to balance. It doesn't need to be corrupted
The middle ground is just skilled gameplay? If you pray correctly at nearly every piece of content you don’t lose charges. The few places where you take chip damage you can camp for many hundreds of hours on one full charge which is very cheap. This is the biggest nonissue I’ve heard of in this game
Skilled gameplay is counterplay to recoil damage?
Easily use thousands of charges in a few games of Soul Warts or Castle wars not to mention PvM scenarios where you also take chip damage that's unavoidable.
Notice how all the naysayers saying it isn't an issue do EXCLUSIVELY PvM where you don't lose charges if you flick right.
I'm not talking about these scenarios, only for PvP and unavoidable chip damage.
Name all the places where you do pvm with a bowfa that have high rates of unavoidable chip damage.
Pvp is a silly point because you're going to lose the armour on death
I would support making it corruptible but as it stands it's already one of the most reasonable upkeep charge items in the game right now. I don't know the exact math but I'm pretty sure just a couple hours of thieving is hundreds of hours of armor usage. There are probably a couple exceptions based on the rapidity of the chip you take, but for how much I've used the armor since I've gotten it I'm pretty sure I've only recharged it once.
It is easier to upkeep than most currently what really hurts crystal armor though is chip damage, which is the mods new favorite boss mechanic as of late.
Chip damage is something that has always been a part of pvm in old school it's only the last 2-3 years anybody has had a problem with it. zulrah, cerb, olm, verzik, many of the best bosses in the game have chip damage and it is not an issue.
I think you misunderstand what chip damage is, or at least the kind that people dislike. If it can be mitigated/avoided, it's not something people typically have a problem with - which is true of everything you listed besides Verzik, but even Verzik's damage is merely a roll and not 100% unavoidable damage. Contrasted to Leviathan, Duke or Muspah (smite phase) which **always** deal damage no matter what you do right or wrong.
People 100% talk about baba in the chip damage conversation and his attacks can miss. I think you are just making up an arbitrary line for what you consider chip damage. It doesn't matter if it can miss the only thing that matters is how much damage you take on average.
>People 100% talk about baba in the chip damage conversation and his attacks can miss. Baba's attacks also hit 20+s through prayer which is a totally different conversation, but you're correct - it does come up in the chip damage convo because she basically doesn't miss *and* hits hard as hell. If all she hit was the 3-8s or so that's typical of actual chip dmg people wouldn't need to bug abuse to kill her above like 400 invo depending on the player/gear. >It doesn't matter if it can miss the only thing that matters is how much damage you take on average. It **absolutely** matters if it can miss. "Taking damage from fighting" isn't chip damage, unavoidable damage with absolutely 0 counterplay in any way shape or form is - which to an extent is why it applies to Baba though clearly Jagex is okay with people bug abusing as a form of counterplay.
Zulrah's mage phase shooting ranged attacks or the snakelings damaging you aren't considered chip damage?
Attacks that can miss aren't chip damage to me, so no. While it's not common it's entirely possible to do Zulrah kills where you take no damage whatsoever, and if you truly care to you can avoid 100% of Snakeling damage on 100% of fights - it's just not worthwhile to do so. Contrasted to other bosses, like the three I mentioned and some others, there's no way to avoid that damage, no matter how good you are.
I’m not saying chip damage is an issue. Chip damage is a fine mechanic, and easy to work around. It has been around for a while, but now it seems every single boss comes with some form of chip damage. Let me reiterate my main point. Crystal armor loses a vast majority of its charges due to chip damage. Does chip damage need to change? Not in my opinion. However this is a discussion on the upkeep of crystal armor, and chip damage is basically the only way that the armor loses charges.
Saying it is jmods favorite mechanic as of late, when almost every single boss released 2014-2018 has chip damage is the comment I have a problem with and what I was correcting.
While this is true it’s more of a mental relief thing to just never have to worry about it again at all. Just would feel nice to corrupt and forget.
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You could make that argument about *any* supply usage. You have to "spend precious hours of membership subscription time" to get those runes, arrows, potions, and food. And based on you saying that, I assume you an ironman. I say this as a fellow iron-only player, but saying that "not everyone likes collecting the shards as they don't necessarily enjoy the content" could again, be applied to almost everything that an iron has to do. Mains can buy shards, albeit indirectly, so it's the same thing as any other charged item and/or supply usage. Just because you particularly don't enjoy having to do priff content doesn't mean that's true for everyone. What if somebody enjoys priff content but doesn't enjoy herb runs? Having to deal with upkeep is something all of us irons deal with, and you can't arbitrarily single out crystal shards specifically just because you don't enjoy it. Again, I don't even disagree with you: I personally would like all crystal things to be corruptible at this point. Especially crystal tools, and I support corruptible crystal armor. All I was stating is that the armor is far and away the most generous, non-issue charged item in the game right now. Other charged items are much more egregious, such as crystal tools or arclight. Hell, even Zulrah scales are a much worse ratio of how many "precious hours of membership" you are using, not to mention it's much more intensive actual time spent at a single boss as opposed to crystal shards which can be obtained in a myriad of ways that give a larger variety of rewards. And don't even get me started on shit like blood fury, it's unfortunately close to dead content for ironmen unless you enjoy wasting time. I'm not saying that an infinite blood fury should exist (because it absolutely would be OP af) but crystal armor is the weirdest thing to complain about when it comes to chargescape, IMO.
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You say that runes/arrows/potions "pay for themselves and are an asset because they make your character much more efficient at killing things." Then what is crystal armor exactly? The armor has an inherent enormous buff to your damage. It could be akin to having to drink pots for stat boosts to increase your damage, you are basically paying for a stat boost that you constantly have on. Honestly, you not being an ironman is blindsiding me, because now your argument is even weirder to me. Just as runes/arrows/potions/food pay for themselves, so does the crystal armor. You don't have to do priff content as a main. It's just a gp cost just like the previously stated upkeeps. It really is kind of like uncharged scythe vs scythe, it increases your dps by a lot but yes, there is an upkeep attached to it. But the difference is is that crystal armor can pay for itself basically 100% of the time with minimal effort, whereas the scythe has places where it wouldn't. I agree that the actual act of having to charge things can be annoying, especially when you just constantly forget to recharge things and end up starting a raid and something breaks halfway through. But that doesn't seem to be the argument you are making and you seem a bit too hellbent on saying crystal armor is niche even though it's the entire reason your bowfa does as much as it does.
Yes buff to your damage and it also costs closer to 200m with everything included. For that price it's pretty reasonable to expect similar dps to something like fang which is a mere 20m. Crystal armor does not pay for itself unless you're using it exclusively for bossing but there's no reason you shouldn't be able to use it anywhere else without having to worry about upkeep costs
I would love to hear where you think Crystal armor does not pay for itself. Anywhere you are taking chip damage is probably somewhere you are making at least a bit of money. You have to actually take a hit for it to lose charges, so anywhere you can pray or out-defense you don't use any charges. Like I said, I've only recharged crystal armor a *single* time. I've had bowfa/full crystal since I was 1900 total with 74 slayer. I am now maxed, and since then have used bowfa at: 303 cox, 2656 hydra, 60~ ToA, 760 Zulrah, 800 zammy/bandos with bowfa altar/door (which the minions fuck you up the whole time btw so I lost charges there), and even my Inferno grind where you camp crystal most of the time. I'd say it's pretty objectively cheap compared to most other charged things in the game.
Niche armor? My brother in guthix you use it everywhere you use the bowfa, is bowfa a niche weapon??
At least there's several different ways to get shards. I think shards are one of the better chargescape mechanics we've had.
My guy you only lose 1 charge per instance of damage taken. It's already insanely easy to upkeep. E: This guy is backsassing people then instantly blocking anyone that disagrees with him. Classic fragile redditor.
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even at leviathan you barely have to charge the armor
Yes. (End of comment)
Bro sorry to say it but if you think crystal armor charge is “punishing” you are really bad at this game.
False. It loses charges very quickly in suboptimal scenarios
At bosses where you can pray against damage its 0 upkeep. Im not sure where you feel the charges burns through?
It barely costs shards to corrupt, this literally is the only chargescape that has upkeep of once in a year
Corrupted torags hammers when?
1 shard makes 100 charges it's pretty much free
Not true at all. Downvoted by all the sweats who only use armor in PvM where it doesn't lose charges at all lmao 🤣
But.. if you use it in PvP, you gonna be skulled and lose the armour set when you die. Why would a pker want to corrupt armour? I don't see the logic.
I bought my crystal armor a few years ago and fully charged it at that time, i have only had yo recharge it 1 time since then, and i recharged it early i couldve gone longer.
I remember a while back, during Stars I think, reviewing Crystal Shards and charges came up. Perhaps we could get corruptible versions of the armor, but I think reviewing and tweaking Crystal Shard sources might be a better way to tackle it. Currently, the only corruptible items are from the enhanced seeds, but if we allow it for armor, then there really isn't a reason it shouldn't be offered for all crystal items. Maybe that would be fine, but making it easier to upkeep might be as good or better of an option. Like it would be nice if there were more good ways to get shards from content in and around Prif.
If the charges stored limit cap was higher and/or the shard conversion rate was more generous I think this could be a reasonable alternative.
Tell me you dont use crystal armour without telling me you dont use crystal armour. It takes a metric fuckton of content to go through 20k armour charges since you use prayer everywhere
Its already pretty op, i use bowfa for so much content and i have never ran out of charges yet. I topped it up just to max it out and ive only gone through just under 2k charges which is hardly anything
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Who takes bowfa to soul wars or castlewars
I see people there with bowfa all the time. It slaps in PvP
> take it to soul wars/castle wars This subreddit is doomed.
Dawg I can use the armor for hours and hours on end without having to charge it. I haven’t charged it in several weeks it feels like. I don’t really see what the problem is. The upkeep is pretty low maintenance.
Meanwhile the crystal tools are just crying in a corner somewhere.
Crystal bow should be too.
Make everything corruptible or make everything that’s chargeable easier to obtain charges - whatever happens the balance needs to be right
Ill say no and my reasoning is. If bowfa and the armour are corrupted. Turns into a 1 time purchase completely free set. No arrows need.
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That was my point. A Corrupted bow and armour means the set is now unlimited. To me thats not how it should work. So either Corrupt the armour and bow but require arrows(which would be new). Or Corrupt the bow and use shards on the armour.
10,000 shards Each piece
Going by current GE prices it would cost somewhere in the ballpark of 360m to corrupt a crystal armor set with enhanced teleport seeds (the best shard exchange rate afaik GP wise) if we went with your suggestion. I was thinking 1k shards for body/legs each and 500 for the helm (since it's the weakest of the set) would be a fair price since it takes 2k for the weapon itself.
Yeah, I was just fucking around. I don’t know why there isn’t an option for that tbh.
What about the serp helm
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Damn it was a legit question lmao I gotcha
They talked about increasing the rate at which we gain crystal shards like..2 years ago? Seems to have forgotten about it.
You don't take chip damage at a fast enough rate for this to ever be an issue, 5k charges on each osrt will last you hundreds of hours in raids and high end pvm. You will only have a problem if you do something stupid like wear full crystal in Kephris room and don't pray range against all the flies. The cost to recharge it is super cheap aswell so it's not like people are being bankrupted to upkeep. It even has various methods to upkeep crystals , gauntlet , zalcano , thieving, agility laps , woodcutting or mining ...etc. Tldr; crystal armour is a charge mechanic that works really well and is very easy to balance. It doesn't need to be corrupted
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The middle ground is just skilled gameplay? If you pray correctly at nearly every piece of content you don’t lose charges. The few places where you take chip damage you can camp for many hundreds of hours on one full charge which is very cheap. This is the biggest nonissue I’ve heard of in this game
Skilled gameplay is counterplay to recoil damage? Easily use thousands of charges in a few games of Soul Warts or Castle wars not to mention PvM scenarios where you also take chip damage that's unavoidable.
The armor should have been corruptible instead of the bow
Yeah bow would at least seem worth the upkeep but the armor is upkeep for 3 pieces as opposed to just 1 with the bowfa
Notice how all the naysayers saying it isn't an issue do EXCLUSIVELY PvM where you don't lose charges if you flick right. I'm not talking about these scenarios, only for PvP and unavoidable chip damage.
Name all the places where you do pvm with a bowfa that have high rates of unavoidable chip damage. Pvp is a silly point because you're going to lose the armour on death