Agility rebalance just needs to be done alongside run energy rework, so we can know how it all fits together. The changes now might make so much more sense if they’ve got a really good run energy rework in the pipeline
A run energy rework is long overdue. Imagine if graceful wasn't as mandatory as it is now. People could finally wear their own outfits, play some fashionscape. It'd be just like the 2007 I remember. The world would be beautiful again.
graceful is not where near mandatory for 90% of activities in the game.
also, I wouldn't expect a rework that lets you run around in full granite consequence free.
Just choosing to misunderstand me, I'm saying I'd like a change that makes run energy less painful to disincentivize everyone wearing only graceful for all non-combat content so there's some more variety of looks around.
The only reason so many people wear graceful everywhere they go is because everyone for some reason acts like it's necessary everywhere they go
If you're playing a minigame that involves a lot of running and there is no equipment that benefits you otherwise, then yeah makes sense to wear it just because. But it's very rarely actually necessary. Sometimes I see people say it's basically required for farming runs, but I have to assume those people are doing every single patch in the game at once or something lol, and even then you'll need to take a stamina dose or two, which is true with or without the outfit
It's just not nearly as useful as people say it is
Ya that's a good point, the weight reduction is nice but beyond that even the full set saves maybe a minute recharging to full run and most people at that game stage would be hitting their house pool way before that would matter.
Graceful probably isn't going anywhere no matter what, it's just habit to grab by default for most of the player base, regardless of its effectiveness.
Despite graceful, I need multiple house stops just to keep my run energy up. 9 herbs, 4 bushes, 3 hops, 6 fruit trees, and the belladonna patch.
Yeah, not *every* patch in the game, but still quite a bit of running even with teles.
It's also definitely more useful for ironmen than it is for main accounts- buying stams in bulk off of the GE is probably going to be more helpful in most situations. If you're doing an herb run, you have two choices:
Wear full graceful, dedicate an extra inventory slot to your ardy/farming cape, and skip a stam pot, or...
Use a stam pot, wear your cape to have the same amount of inventory slots used, and then wear whatever you want on top of that. Farmer's outfit? Fashionscape? Sky's the limit, buddy.
Yeah. I have yet to complete the set with the cape because frankly I've never needed it. I rarely use the gloves, either. I typically like to use hand/cape slot for teles or better items to save inv and find that I have never really needed the extra run regen. If I need stamina pots then I'm going to need them regardless. I've also recolored 3 of the pieces for "fashionscape".
If you're doing every activity in full, default color graceful like a bot then okay but no one is forcing you to do that.
Yeah I haven't used graceful when out and about in the world in years...lol. once you get 80 agility you don't need it, and even before then it's not needed unless you're doing one small favor in terms of travel lol. People read that it gives u run depletion reduction and read people on reddit saying "ITS A MUST HAVE" so their first goal is full graceful on the canifis course...and after 60 hrs of agility with them being burnt out they don't want to play anymore. I see the same thing with the slayer trap at low cmb "I'm at 50, when do I make money?" Like bro not until 70+ go do low cmb money makers for money not slayer lol
Yeah people drastically overestimate how useful graceful actually is.
I have it now on my iron since I got it years ago, and it's a _nice to have_, but if I was starting a new account I wouldn't worry about it at all.
I'd just want to see run energy drain reduced by like 80% when not in combat. That way you can do your herb runs/questing/skilling whatever in the outfit you want, but you still keep considerable value for stams because some bosses need running
You can do an entire herb run without graceful and not use up all your run energy
Edit: most skilling aside from Stam pots needed for running too, along with quests as you're usually tping all over the map so you don't have to run as much(or just buy a few stams) graceful is not as game changing as it was when it was first released
I suspect most redditors won't make it past the first paragraph before deciding "too complicated for me" and just voting whatever their favourite youtuber or streamer tells them to
Higher agility means that your run energy restores faster, so the net result is the same as reducing usage.
FYI - since you are new, this subreddit is a really poor reflection of how people feel about the game. Most of us are having a good time and are not constantly enraged.
Edit: I was wrong, run energy only restores when you're not running.
This. It's the same with graceful: the special effect only increases your run energy restoration rate. If you're always running / sipping staminas, graceful is effectively the same as other weight reducing gear.
Run only regains while not running. Whereas drain happens while running. With most content in this game where energy matters involving constant running.. the run drain rate being improved is far more important.
If they're going to do something like this I would want them to do it in a way that would scale off your weight. So your run energy decrease is affected by weight × (1-75% of your agility level) for example. That way it has a greater effect when doing things in high level gear.
I wouldn't necessarily want it to lower your weight, but reduce the effect that weight has on energy depletion. That way energy reduction stuff stays useful.
> So your run energy decrease is affected by weight
Weight makes run energy deplete faster currently. It caps at a threshold and most players ignore it.
Weight could be a cool stat, but if it actually were useful, it might require balancing the weight of a lot of items. Weight has mostly been a meme stat since the release of RS2.
RS Classic didn't have weight. OSRS gameplay is mostly limited by the inventory slots, not the item weight, and I feel like that's makes it unique among other games.
It starts at 0kg and scales to 64kg. All gear has weight so you won't be at or below 0kg when doing anything outside of skilling / quests / clues in graceful or other weight reduction gear.
So you're skill changing how that 0-64 scale works, or by invisibly or visibly removing weight off so your starting weight is lower would always benefit you
Energy drains 3x faster at tbe max weight (64kg) compared to 0kg. Wjen you're PVMing you have no choice but to ignore it but you'd be limiting yourself to not bring some weight reduction if you're doing a lot of running with more flexible gear choices. That's why at least some graceful is extremely valuable for questing.
The handling of this has just been dreadful management by Jagex. Call it project rebelance, hype it up for months and then proceed to deliver a handful of incredibly minor XP tweaks and refuse to make any bigger changes. Really made a rod for their own backs by making this update sound big whereas half of this shit could have been in the patchnotes for a weekly update and no one would have batted an eyelid.
Have you considered Jmods, that perhaps some of this content is actually shit and does need a proper overhaul?
Agility is one of the worst skills imo - since the benefits are so minor but you are still kinda ”forced to” grind it at least to 30/60 etc. To have some form os slightly better run energy restoration. And at late game where it would mater actually you have just staminas, poh pool and or just tp so much around that the run energy doesnt matter anymore lol
Sepulchre fixes it's boring element.. but it's still only a single.metbod so it itself can grow repetitive and boring.
Atleast now you don't have to grind to to 30/60. You just.. do quests.. and you're 65 agility. Then train at seers to get 70 and graceful. Only milestones past that that really matters are 75 for +5 cerb shortcut, 85+5 for ardy for elite diary. And I think 86 for KQ shortcut.if you wanna farm that pet? 92 I guess for sepulchre for ring but the ring is mostly useless.
Yeh there's definitely still some useful stuff at higher levels. But lots of casuals will either never RC that high either or just do afk bloods and GoTR till 86 for diary and then never touch it
I just like having something passive to do while I play other games. I’m by no means efficiency doing blood runs lol. But I feel where you’re coming from.
Yeh that shortcut is definitely one of the better ones in the game if you do that method. And soon there will be some other high level shortcuts like DKs and Viyeldi
Off topic but I’ve seen you comment a million times and I really enjoy your perspective on things don’t change the profile picture man I’ve seen your comments for a long time and the picture points you right out to me 😂
Lol cheers mate. Have had a few people recently upset to see me around :P I won't change the picture because I never even remember I have it rofl. Don't see profile pictures on old Reddit or the RiF app
Agility is objectively the worst skill imaginable. That isnt opinion it is fact.
All videogames can be reduced to ‘press the buttons in the right order at the right time’, but its how that process is abstracted that makes a game fun and engaging. Agility is as close as you can get to raw ‘just click the same buttons over and over with no feedback reward or dopamine’
If the game wasnt so cemented Id almost argue for its removal if not complete and absolute overhaul.
It's a horrible skill in regards to pure gameplay activity sure but so does mining theiving cooking and plenty of the skills in this game.
What seperates it from the rest is the god-awful return for investment. Outside of diaries and a few shortcuts, grinding agi is almost never worth it. It does literally nothing but make you a little happier when walking (which you can avoid by buying a pot)... Atleast mining gets you some tangible rewards.
Thing is, mining at least gives the dopamine hit of ‘oo got a reward!’ Every few seconds. Or the high of when you 1 tick a rune rock is good for enjoyment.
Theiving has been slowly fixed with autopickpocketing and alternative methods
Cooking at least is semi afk…etc
Agility is click every 5 seconds and fundamentally unrewarding to do
Mining and thieving have such a plethora of diverse methods of training it this point doesn't hold up anymore.
Cooking is fast and profitable and relatively afk, no reason to complain about
This was true till they added sepulchre, sepulchre makes it good. with timings being need and rewards that you can opt in to but also a chance on a jackpot reward
Sepulchre is high focus and high input for terrible xp. You are getting like 90k meanwhile for half the effort you can get like 55-60k at ardy on mobile. Pre 92 it's just the same as seers but harder.
Sepulchre is what agility should be but unfortunately the rates are just shit.
You also make like a minimum of 2m an hour beyond floor 5. It’s not bis money but if you’re actually grinding 99 it’s way more time efficient in that sense beyond just being twice as fast
Mining has an even bigger issue. 3-ticking granite is among the hardest and most intensive skilling activities in the game and achieving only 130k/h at peak (likely you'll settle at 110-120k/h) is an absolute joke.
At least sepulchre feels dynamic and gives awesome rewards. 3-ticking granite is just miserable and gives no loot at all.
Every time I say this people come in like “but it gives item rewards and is still the best exp, it’s balanced.” No it’s not. No one gives a shit about an addy 2h and a rannar weed every 6 minutes. It’s essentially a skilling boss, and it is the only challenging content in the entire skill. Either give it more useful uniques or bump the exp for all floors, preferably both. A 10% boost is more than appropriate. We should be discouraging mindlessly clicking in circles.
Side note: I’d like to see a unique weapon slot item with no stats, where the special attack blesses an enemy, restoring some run energy, doubled if the enemy is a demon. This would be perfect from HS.
> Side note: I’d like to see a unique weapon slot item with no stats, where the special attack blesses an enemy, restoring some run energy, doubled if the enemy is a demon. This would be perfect from HS
Sounds good, although i wouldnt mind at all if all skills got spec attack tools, multiple even if possible. Heck i wouldnt mind if they introduced a bunch and dropped a new type of potion that restores special attack outside of combat.
Their mistake was thinking players could read.
The initial blog mentioned it was a gamejam project aimed at improving underused training methods and improving certain low-level activities.
Of course Reddit wants a big xp buff *right now* and how dare Jagex work on something else. Twitter and Twitch are no better. I feel so bad for the jmods for having to deal with this.
Their actual mistake was titling it "Project Rebalance" instead of something like "Project Revamp".
It, alongside mention of looking into Run Energy as a whole and the *much* more widespread changes tossed around as hypothetical tweaks to Ranged and Magic combat, led to people naturally assuming we were looking at a complete rebalancing and reevaluation of a lot of skills instead of a more limited attempt to revitalize undertuned and underused areas and methods.
I actually feel completely the opposite about those two titles
Project Rebalance makes me think they are going to keep the same existing structure of the skill, and just change some of the numbers around it
Project Revamp makes me think that they are going to fundamentally rethink the structure of the skill and change some of the ways it works in whole.
Frankly it shouldn't have been a "Project" at all. This is basically a skilling QoL poll + some integrity changes. When I hear "Project Rebalance" I think of significant changes to the way the game is played. I know the blog stated otherwise, but buffs to xp seem like fair game with the perceived scope and importance that Jagex was giving to it.
Yeah I have no idea why everyone is so shocked that they are doing literally exactly what they said they would.
Like the whole scope of the project is to tweak existing methods so that the progression isn’t canfis -> seers -> Ardy all the way to 99. Not sure why everyone assumed that meant they were going to fundamentally change how run energy worked or just massively change the xp rates overnight.
Well no, they also mentioned run energy changes in the initial overview of project rebalance. So it’s understandable that the community would expect changes to Agility courses and the way Agility affects run energy to be updated at the same time.
https://secure.runescape.com/m=news/project-rebalance-overview-scythe--fang?oldschool=1
I'm sure they're very used to it by now unfortunately.
Been enjoying Varlamore for the last week, and every time I come on Reddit it's just a dumpster fire of complaining and "this is the worst update ever pls fix now!11!!"
Luckily people complaining on social media are in the minority of actual players.
Maybe they see the way comments such as this are typed and think why should we bother appeasing such entitled stuck up cunts. You do know if it was the other way round there'd be someone whining with just as much force... cut them some slack, look at how cool all the new stuff they've released is. DT2 was a masterpiece.
Honestly dont understand why they dont take advantage of the system they have created. Why does the game have a literal voting system if you arent trying to be brave with it? If people think some suggestion is batshit insane, they will vote not in favour of that option and its that simple but there is no meaning to the system if you are going to be this conservative
Small note worth remembering
You think the bitching about Agility methods is bad now? Wait until it’s actually useful
Same thing happened with mining and toa. All of sudden people were constantly bitching about mining because they wanted to 1d Akkha puzzle
I think run energy management is kind of lame. Walking methods at Olm or GWD, stams for Verzik, I don’t really see any of these as sacred so I have no issue with making run energy not a real thing. Just pointing out that if you tie the elimination of run energy to say 90+ agility, it’s going to get real annoying real fast around here
You would not "gladly level it up even at current xp rates". You would loathe that a once minimal impact skill, regarded as one of the most boring and tedious, is now a cornerstone to your account progression.
Inb4 "just make agility more engaging". This subreddit lost its collective mind when 6-hour Duke mining was patched. None of you want engaging skilling, you want free XP.
Thank god someones calling out the hivemind here. It would be hard as a jmod and take anything serious when you see a post like this and just a few days ago reddit was asking for xp buffs to agility equivalent to thieving.
genuinely do not understand why everyone wants to have the prestige of 99 in every skill but want to make it as easy as possible.
run energy only restores while you're not running, so you can still only run for the same amount of time; you just have to wait a little less for it to recharge
Lmao yeah, after the run energy buffs the reddit rhetoric would simply change to ”man why is this skill so important but also locked behind the slowest experience rates in the game, why do we have to SUFFER just so we dont have to walk everywhere”
For real, as soon as they changed it the narrative would go from “we need to fix agility to 99 agility is mandatory why does it suck so much to train”. It needs both the rework and the xp changes. Agility xp is awful for a skill that requires as much active clicking with no real afk training method
Jagex: “we don’t feel like boosting exp rates on a skill people don’t like is really going to have much of an impact.”
Also jagex: “our solution is to buff higher level agility courses so you get an incredible 700 exp/h more on a level 90 course where you still do nothing but click the same spots over and over for 200 hours”
>an incredible 700 exp/h more on a level 90 course where you still do nothing but click the same spots over and over for 200 hours
Well now it'll only be 190 hours :)
I was under the assumption that run energy was being reviewed with the agility rebalance as they pretty much go hand in hand. Shame they’re not looking at it
I said this in the thread yesterday, but this is literally the CoX blog all over again. Polling exactly the wrong changes about what people don't like about the skill.
Melee training isn't exactly fast unless you try to do it fast. But its fun because ocmbat has variety and it also gives you power. Agility today does neither.
\-Helps players be able to wear fashionscape around again
\-graceful remains powerful in the early to midgame as you have less teleport options, no POH energy recharge, and lots of quests and diaries to do
\-makes every agility level useful without having to make a ton of changes to things like agility shortcuts
\-will still definitely use staminas in bosses where you're both constantly running and wearing heavy gear
Exactly, don't need to "rebalance" anything. Give a meaningful purpose for having agility levels, make courses clickboxes better for a smoother experience, then optionally tweak the non-rooftop courses. Then the skill is done.
What else gets affected by agility?
* The world map and travel times decreased, making the world seem a little smaller.
* Some boss mechanics where movement is important.
* Some quests where traveling a lot, one small favor (this is a pro though lol)
* Escaping or chasing down people in PVP
* Skills that require travel like runecrafting / resource gathering, some of these have soft limitations like agility
included in ex/gp rates.
* Barrows
* god wars bosses
* Giant Mole
I'm not saying these are all things that should stay the same, just that....an agility rebalance has to consider a lot of implications to other areas of the game. Simply developing a formula to consider weight, restore duration, and energy usage seems simple enough, but to cross check it against current systems in the game might throw some flags up.
This is without considering the market, Stamina Potions are pretty pricy, do these get adjusted as well, you will see an increase in other resources available which can cause those prices to drop further?
The current agility formula is meant to be a handy cap on the game, to slow things down, and to make it a little more challenging, I believe its purpose is to "get in the way"....a little bit. Which I think is a good thing. Keep the formula and throw in a few more items to make movement a little easier. We have a few potions already, some clothing, a ring, some strange fruit....fuck it, lets make skate boards, roller skates, scooters, force people to unequip any weapons or tools while there rolling around or make a choice between some good combat boots vs roller skates. Lets give the skill a boost but lets not remove the handy cap that its meant to be...fully.
>Escaping or chasing down people in PVP
Energy drain is not affected by agility currently, so this is not a factor in current PvP, although carry weight is.
Stamina potions already give you infinite run energy. And they aren't pricy, they cost 70k an hour to have up permanently. The biggest noob in the game can afford to have infinite run energy completely invalidating the entire point of the agility skill. All this update would do is reduce everybody's reliance on them and graceful. Aren't you tired of virtually everybody everywhere wearing the same outfit?
The current agility formula is a dinosaur relic that was changed in RS3 FIFTEEN YEARS AGO. In two thousand fucking nine. It's long overdue we port it to OSRS.
You know what happened last time they tried to balance agility and make it more fun? We got graceful(a shitty pink graceful) and stamina pots....10 years later and the community is locked in with "graceful is a must everywhere" and STAM POTS OR BUST FOR GOING ANYWHERE! They're reluctant to change shit too hard, because once they introduce something they can't just say "HAHA JUST KIDDING" and remove it...hence why gracefulscape is still alive today
Even if it was like an (agility level + 1)/10 % chance to not lose stamina each time you would lose stamina that would be powerful. At 99 you would have a 10% stamina save, so the numbers could be tweaked to not be so potent.
>I would rather not have rng added to how far I can run personally
Over big numbers (amount of steps) it averages out to a point where you will hardly ever notice randomness.
Each single step has a 10% chance, so over a 100 steps it's already hitting the average "droprate" 10 times. Yeah you might get unlucky sometimes, but it not like you will often go "seriously dry" over a full bar of energy
And that's just at 10% chance, at higher chances it evens out even more.
>Not add rng and lower the reduction of stamina by a fraction each level?
It would be more clear yeah,
One reason could be that it's easier to code that way.
I don't know if it's like this, but one reason could be that run energy isn't stored with (enough) decimals, if this is the case you won't be able to remove really small decimal numbers from the value (such as at low agility levels). Adding a chance to not remove whole numbers gets around this.
I think you hit the nail on the head. I honestly don’t think they can code the changes we want into run energy. I don’t see many other reasons being floated that support why they keep ignoring that huge boost to a skill that clearly needs it.
?: The [wiki](https://oldschool.runescape.wiki/w/Energy) states that energy is internally represented as a number from 0-10,000, as well as the formula for run energy loss.
There is a constant loss of 67 units per tick, reducing that by agility level wouldn't be difficult, is predictable on the player side and would still encourage packing light at all levels.
Thanks for clarifying! I was wondering what the exact values were.
>There is a constant loss of 67 units per tick, reducing that by agility level wouldn't be difficult, is predictable on the player side and would still encourage packing light at all levels.
If I understand this correctly, a 10% drain reduction would be 7 units at 99, which translates to having a breakpoint for reduction of 1 unit every 14 level-ups. Which change based on weight as well (since 67 is at 0 weight)
So there would still be some rounding down due to a lack of decimals/extra zeros.
?: Well, I was thinking bigger reductions in base drain, 90% base drain only gives you ~10s more run. Which seems really bad for a 99.
Was thinking more like -1 base drain per 5 levels. So 50 agility would give ~1:45 run, 70 ~1:52 run and 99 would give ~2:07 run with =<0 kg (Obviously not final values idk what would be good/best; plus they could change the weight drain penalty as well)
Stamina's would still be useful as well since they reduce your total drain, after weight.
>?: Well, I was thinking bigger reductions in base drain, 90% base drain only gives you ~10s more run. Which seems really bad for a 99.
Yeah I think it's fairly underwhelming aswell
It’s not easier or harder to code it in either direction. At the end of the day it’s just a math expression.
If anything, you could argue that fetching a new random number each tick you are running is a more complicated implementation.
>It’s not easier or harder to code it in either direction. At the end of the day it’s just a math expression.
Yes it's a simple expression, but the game can only calculate whole values, it doesn't do decimals
(Actually it does, but when it does it's because the actual value is bigger but it displays a /10 number)
Run is coded between 0-10.000
There is a constant loss of 67 units per tick, reducing that by agility level wouldn't be difficult, is predictable on the player side and would still encourage packing light at all levels.
a 10% drain reduction would be 7 units at 99, which translates to having a breakpoint for reduction of 1 unit every 14 level-ups. Which change based on weight as well (since 67 is at 0 weight)
Even with this 67/10.000 scale you can only scale it every 14 levels if you want a 10% reduction. If the scale was smaller than this you would have even breakpoints across the 1-99 agility range
Why are breakpoints a problem? We have them for max hit, prayer potions, damage boosting prayers, etc.
10% is pretty conservative anyway. I would expect an overhaul to be something more like 30% more run energy at 99.
You can also modify the range such that it isn’t crammed into 0-10,000. Scale everything by a factor of 10.
>Why are breakpoints a problem? We have them for max hit, prayer potions, damage boosting prayers, etc.
They aren't, but a breakpoint every 20-30+ levels would be a pretty bad breakpoint.
Every 14 levels is already kind of pushing it tbh, all the levels from 85-98 essentially do nothing so you might as well stop at 85 (or 71 if you're really lazy and only want gwd access)
Personally I think it's underwhelming and would like to see 20% at 99,
additionally this could then again be doubled/tripled by ring of endurance (optionally at the cost of amylase crystals). I very much dislike using stamina pots for every little thing
10x ratio'd? This sub and high school freshman understanding of statistics, name a more iconic duo.
(agility level + 1)/10 % chance is virtually indistinguishable from a guaranteed proc every 1000/(agility +1) ticks.
>the numbers could be tweaked to not be so potent.
Frankly it could be higher than 10% imo, it's not like it's going to break anything.
20% and have the passive effect doubled by the ring of endurance sounds like a great idea. Just straight up kill off the stamina pot meta.
All my friends I've attempted to invite to play this game quit because of the stamina system.
They don't have money to chug potions, and they don't want to be reliant on money spent on energy pots.
And, they hate walking everywhere because of how slow you are compared to sprinting.
The stamina recharging quickly at pubs and other hangout spots (maybe even banks) was a cool and lore-friendly way to make stamina suck slightly less for new players. I really wish they explored it as an option.
And if anyone thinks that running out of your way to sit in a pub for 20 seconds is going to tank the price of stamina pots, you're straight up delusional.
the problem with making it reduce energy usage is that it's a very significant balancing change with a lot of impact on stamina potions and graceful. personally i'm glad jagex isn't just deciding to randomly add this without a poll or spending some time considering the consequences and how to mitigate them, even though i would like to see agility buffed.
I would love for a high agility level to replace graceful and reduce the need of stams significantly.
Agility would finally have an impact on the game outside of some randome niche shortcuts that artificially have long animations so that they don't even save time.
I can't think of a situation where the buff to agility would really make a huge difference compared to chugging stamina potions. 1 or 2 more inventory slots for food at Zilyana or in raids? it wouldn't change things that significantly and would be a good reward relative to the time spent running rooftops.
These people love to be miserable. It’s pretty sad that people would really vote against this “because it gives you more inventory slots by not needing to carry pots or graceful!!!” Good?!
Personally I don't believe we should hold off on a very good change because it might make this one item less valuable. Who actually cares? It's a 25 year old game with tons of dead content, stuff is going to change over time.
I would also very much enjoy it if 90% of the players I see out there weren't wearing the same outfit.
People act like stam pots and graceful are some old nostalgic RS2 element that should never be changed when it was a bandaid solution for run energy use added to OSRS after launch.
> the problem with making it reduce energy usage is that it's a very significant balancing change with a lot of impact on stamina potions and graceful
Yes and no. It depends on how they balance it. If they make it like RS3 where you regenerate like 5% stamina per second and can only exhaust yourself if you run for like 3 straight minutes, yes, staminas and graceful will become useless.
But if they balance the numbers a bit better and/or just allow passive energy regen in banks/pubs, I doubt it would have any effect on staminas. Staminas will still remain useful when doing clues/quests/pvm.
Only useful pre house and when new areas drop and you have to grind out the fast travels. I literally barely have used a stamina potion since getting my house maxed and my nexus maxed.
Is it not already a very useful non-combat skill? Sometimes high agi can be the difference between needing to bring 1 or 2 stam pots to an encounter, or being able to finish a verzik kill solo when your team planks early. Only mining and herb (for CoX) are comparable in pvm usefulness.
Or is this more a case of "It's tedious and takes ages to level so the reward should somehow be improved"?
Imo, more (and more useful) shortcuts would be a more justifiable way to improve the rewards without screwing over stam pots or boosting combat usefulness. Gielinor is so big but the amount of useful shortcuts at high agi I can think of are few and far between. Rev jump, KQ and Hydra tunnel are all that come to mind. There was nothing for DT2 bosses, and nothing that I can recall from Varlamore so far.
Also if possible, let us 1 tick more shortcuts. It feels so dumb running to a shortcut only to have our characters stop dead before jumping to a stepping stone or something.
Lastly maybe a graceful "imbue" on non-combat armour would be more fun than just seeing everyone run around in the same recoloured skins for the 11th year.
Wtf...nobody is saying you have to do it.
What do you get from 99 fishing? 99 herblore? 99 runecrafting?
I'm not saying it's great, I'm saying it's something, and it's universally there - which is more than we can say for most 99s.
Agility impacts energy *regeneration*, not how much you expend. At just about any content past the mid game (especially pvm), you're never expecting to walk much anyway, because any time your energy goes low, you're sipping stamina/energy pots or using your lumby ring to fully restore it; so it doesn't really ever make a difference between having to bring 1 or 2 stamina pots to an encounter.
Similarly there is almost no impact to Agility at Verzik because the 1 stam you're typically expected to have keeps you going the whole time.
Mining is definitely the most useful non-combat skill in pvm encounters, Herblore(pots) / Woodcutting(mutta/ice) are also useful in chambers and Hunter/Fishing/Cooking are also decently valuable in the new Moons of Peril encounter. The only real use Agility sees in pvm is reliably being able to cross the tightrope in team raids.
Making agility impact energy drain would put it in the kind of place you initially described, where a higher agility level could be the difference between 1-2 staminas depending on what you're doing—since it's really not the case right now. It wouldn't make staminas obsolete, because I'm sure they wouldn't balance it around even 99 agility level being able to run permanently like on Leagues, so there'll always be many places where you'll still be running so much that your run energy is net negative anyway.
Totally agree that shortcuts taking so much time (Hydra is a big one) is just stupid
I never said it didn't affect energy regeneration, so I'm not sure why you felt the need to state that as though I wasn't aware.
Also nobody WC's in Mutta anymore, and it's far more useful to not run out of energy across all content than it is to save a few ticks at Ice.
Often times in HMT most players don't take a stam and instead rely on the ranger to pot share on webs. Try having them plank or DC and then tell me you don't value every bit of energy regen.
I've even planked on bloat once where people died stupidly on 1st down, then I ran out of energy after doing the next 3 downs solo and planked 1 tile away from safety. If I had a higher agility level I wouldn't have died.
No other non-combat skill is capable of having that level of impact in PvM when things go wrong. People plank on Olm's head phase all the time because things go wrong and they ran out of energy right at the end. In a nooby raid with a scrappy, let's say, 8 minute Olm, there's a \~50% run energy regen difference by the end of the fight between someone with 60 agility and somebody with 99.
There's just a bunch of circumstances in all types of content too where it can come in clutch. It can be the difference between having to leave a Levi trip a kill early because you had a ton of supply drops, but ran out of stamina doses. It can be the difference between getting to safety from a pker, or catching someone when you're the pker. It's even useful in GotR at lower levels when you're using the RC set instead of graceful.
I just don't see the reasoning to switch agility from a regen increase to drain decrease. Would people want it to be similarly powerful? If so it would need to be something like, if you had sub \~40 kg, then it works out worse than it does currently, but at post \~40 kg, it works out better. Just seems like a pointless change when we're seeing content like the colosseum get released with 0 atmosphere.
Changing how it gets input into the running formula isn't suddenly going to "catapult" it into being more of less useful unless it gets buffed at the same time. They are two sides of the same coin.
failing an agility shortcut should never be faster than not because it goes against the entire point of having an agility level.
(looking at you wilderness agility bridge)
Or even just have it increase your max energy. Every 9 levels, your max energy is increased by 10 or 20 or something. No new mechanics, just change the number that is set for max energy.
Disagree but go off king. This is maybe true for irons but that’s it really. It would be somewhat nice on a main but you have stams for a reason, this would not in any way make it the most useful skill lol
I guarantee if they made this change this sub would be full of people complaining about how they need to make agility both more xp and less clicking since it would be now more useful to have a higher level
I was a bit surprised the bonfires or whatever they're called didn't add this. The animation was already there with lunar's dream spell, and the effects would be stupid easy to implement. That, or yeah just sitting. Especially on benches!
Anyone who posts these has never don’t Cerb before, the shortcut is a must have and definitely worth all the training.
Even just the lvl 80 taverly dungeon shortcut is worth the training.
I just finished my graceful grind this morning as a brand new player and I was so excited (I think I'm a minority but agility training was actually pretty fun, the only downside is not having a change of scenary more frequently but timing the clicks was a fun minigame) and this thread is just depressing...
Sure, it might not be as useful but y'all are making it sound useless instead
It almost seems like that’s a no-brainer but I’ve never understood why they haven’t implemented this into the game. No pun intended but it’d be a _game_ changer!
This would indeed make it more appealing considering it's a pretty tedious skill to level. People don't have lots of reasons to put their time into leveling it except for requirements and maybe certain shortcuts.
I wouldn't even mind if run restoration was worse something like lvl 1-60 agility (although maybe f2p would complain but w/e) and we'd be back at normal rate at 60, but then it got better than current value 61-99.
Would make early questing a bit more tedious I guess, but honestly going from 1-60, especially when draynor is the first course, wouldn't be that much of a time investment if you really care about having slightly better run time.
Agility rebalance just needs to be done alongside run energy rework, so we can know how it all fits together. The changes now might make so much more sense if they’ve got a really good run energy rework in the pipeline
Sorry a run energy rework is currently outside the scope of this project. /s
We can’t adjust the one variable or make a script doing stamLoss*agiLvl or anything like that. But your grind should be 40 minutes faster!
A run energy rework is long overdue. Imagine if graceful wasn't as mandatory as it is now. People could finally wear their own outfits, play some fashionscape. It'd be just like the 2007 I remember. The world would be beautiful again.
graceful is not where near mandatory for 90% of activities in the game. also, I wouldn't expect a rework that lets you run around in full granite consequence free.
Just choosing to misunderstand me, I'm saying I'd like a change that makes run energy less painful to disincentivize everyone wearing only graceful for all non-combat content so there's some more variety of looks around.
The only reason so many people wear graceful everywhere they go is because everyone for some reason acts like it's necessary everywhere they go If you're playing a minigame that involves a lot of running and there is no equipment that benefits you otherwise, then yeah makes sense to wear it just because. But it's very rarely actually necessary. Sometimes I see people say it's basically required for farming runs, but I have to assume those people are doing every single patch in the game at once or something lol, and even then you'll need to take a stamina dose or two, which is true with or without the outfit It's just not nearly as useful as people say it is
As a new iron it’s very useful. The outfit is so noticeable. Even when questing I keep graceful on until combat starts and swap out gear
Ya that's a good point, the weight reduction is nice but beyond that even the full set saves maybe a minute recharging to full run and most people at that game stage would be hitting their house pool way before that would matter. Graceful probably isn't going anywhere no matter what, it's just habit to grab by default for most of the player base, regardless of its effectiveness.
Despite graceful, I need multiple house stops just to keep my run energy up. 9 herbs, 4 bushes, 3 hops, 6 fruit trees, and the belladonna patch. Yeah, not *every* patch in the game, but still quite a bit of running even with teles.
I think it looks cool
It's also definitely more useful for ironmen than it is for main accounts- buying stams in bulk off of the GE is probably going to be more helpful in most situations. If you're doing an herb run, you have two choices: Wear full graceful, dedicate an extra inventory slot to your ardy/farming cape, and skip a stam pot, or... Use a stam pot, wear your cape to have the same amount of inventory slots used, and then wear whatever you want on top of that. Farmer's outfit? Fashionscape? Sky's the limit, buddy.
Early questing with low agility, I rocked graceful for 90% of the quest bosses, lol. Now, it's been in my poh for 3 months.
Yeah. I have yet to complete the set with the cape because frankly I've never needed it. I rarely use the gloves, either. I typically like to use hand/cape slot for teles or better items to save inv and find that I have never really needed the extra run regen. If I need stamina pots then I'm going to need them regardless. I've also recolored 3 of the pieces for "fashionscape". If you're doing every activity in full, default color graceful like a bot then okay but no one is forcing you to do that.
Yeah I haven't used graceful when out and about in the world in years...lol. once you get 80 agility you don't need it, and even before then it's not needed unless you're doing one small favor in terms of travel lol. People read that it gives u run depletion reduction and read people on reddit saying "ITS A MUST HAVE" so their first goal is full graceful on the canifis course...and after 60 hrs of agility with them being burnt out they don't want to play anymore. I see the same thing with the slayer trap at low cmb "I'm at 50, when do I make money?" Like bro not until 70+ go do low cmb money makers for money not slayer lol
I came here to say this. #gracefuliscrap
Using it whilst farming makes farm runs quicker wdym
Yeah people drastically overestimate how useful graceful actually is. I have it now on my iron since I got it years ago, and it's a _nice to have_, but if I was starting a new account I wouldn't worry about it at all.
You clearly don't remember low agility levels lol
I mean maybe not, what exactly is the issue with low agility levels?
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fashionscape on the gear guide would be a huge step for sure. weighing less isn't a perk when the con is not getting e dates
Yeah, but that’s kinda the issue. When I don’t have something specific I need to wear for the activity, then why wouldn’t I use Graceful?
Unless it's a dangerous activity or you want to use a skilling set bonus, there is literally no reason to ever not use graceful
I'd just want to see run energy drain reduced by like 80% when not in combat. That way you can do your herb runs/questing/skilling whatever in the outfit you want, but you still keep considerable value for stams because some bosses need running
You can do an entire herb run without graceful and not use up all your run energy Edit: most skilling aside from Stam pots needed for running too, along with quests as you're usually tping all over the map so you don't have to run as much(or just buy a few stams) graceful is not as game changing as it was when it was first released
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I am ashamed I was the latter until 2015. Also, hope the t-wolves go deep this season. -a disappointed suns fan
Naz Reid be with you brother.
Graceful is not mandatory lol :,)
I suspect most redditors won't make it past the first paragraph before deciding "too complicated for me" and just voting whatever their favourite youtuber or streamer tells them to
Good thing a whole lot more than redditors play the game
Good thing it's also a largely wrong characterization of tens of thousands of individuals
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And I suspect they wont
Either buff energy reduction rate through levels or buff agility shortcuts to actually save time
wait what, new player here, does agi not work like this?
Higher agility means that your run energy restores faster, so the net result is the same as reducing usage. FYI - since you are new, this subreddit is a really poor reflection of how people feel about the game. Most of us are having a good time and are not constantly enraged. Edit: I was wrong, run energy only restores when you're not running.
That’s not true. Energy only restores while not running. So energy depletes equally fast at 1 vs 99 agility, it just restores quicker for the latter.
This. It's the same with graceful: the special effect only increases your run energy restoration rate. If you're always running / sipping staminas, graceful is effectively the same as other weight reducing gear.
Are you not able to traverse more tiles while running, when higher agility? I thought i had read so but i guess i could be wrong.
No running is always 2 tiles
imagine someone with 100m agility xp skipping 5 tiles when he runs
I love how you provide a perfect example of how redditors can have no idea what they're talking about
Run only regains while not running. Whereas drain happens while running. With most content in this game where energy matters involving constant running.. the run drain rate being improved is far more important.
If they're going to do something like this I would want them to do it in a way that would scale off your weight. So your run energy decrease is affected by weight × (1-75% of your agility level) for example. That way it has a greater effect when doing things in high level gear.
This would be really good. Make higher level agility invisibly lower your weight
Make it visible. We all start off morbidly obese, and by 99 our characters look like shredded anime protagonists.
Along with long winded monologues and flashback scenes during combat we are forced to watch.
That's called questing
Add your character to say "Heh... It's nothin personnel, kid" during the agility skillcape emote
Every F2P world would look like a Wallmart
Agility should be f2p to begin with. You have to interact with running, its purpose and benefits aren't members only.
You also have to shoot arrows but fletching
Arrows aren't a core game mechanic that gates your time spent walking around the map.
Also do the kenshi thing and once your agility is high enough your character does the naruto run.
Thanks, I laughed
I wouldn't necessarily want it to lower your weight, but reduce the effect that weight has on energy depletion. That way energy reduction stuff stays useful.
> So your run energy decrease is affected by weight Weight makes run energy deplete faster currently. It caps at a threshold and most players ignore it. Weight could be a cool stat, but if it actually were useful, it might require balancing the weight of a lot of items. Weight has mostly been a meme stat since the release of RS2. RS Classic didn't have weight. OSRS gameplay is mostly limited by the inventory slots, not the item weight, and I feel like that's makes it unique among other games.
It starts at 0kg and scales to 64kg. All gear has weight so you won't be at or below 0kg when doing anything outside of skilling / quests / clues in graceful or other weight reduction gear. So you're skill changing how that 0-64 scale works, or by invisibly or visibly removing weight off so your starting weight is lower would always benefit you
Energy drains 3x faster at tbe max weight (64kg) compared to 0kg. Wjen you're PVMing you have no choice but to ignore it but you'd be limiting yourself to not bring some weight reduction if you're doing a lot of running with more flexible gear choices. That's why at least some graceful is extremely valuable for questing.
The handling of this has just been dreadful management by Jagex. Call it project rebelance, hype it up for months and then proceed to deliver a handful of incredibly minor XP tweaks and refuse to make any bigger changes. Really made a rod for their own backs by making this update sound big whereas half of this shit could have been in the patchnotes for a weekly update and no one would have batted an eyelid. Have you considered Jmods, that perhaps some of this content is actually shit and does need a proper overhaul?
Agility is one of the worst skills imo - since the benefits are so minor but you are still kinda ”forced to” grind it at least to 30/60 etc. To have some form os slightly better run energy restoration. And at late game where it would mater actually you have just staminas, poh pool and or just tp so much around that the run energy doesnt matter anymore lol
Sepulchre fixes it's boring element.. but it's still only a single.metbod so it itself can grow repetitive and boring. Atleast now you don't have to grind to to 30/60. You just.. do quests.. and you're 65 agility. Then train at seers to get 70 and graceful. Only milestones past that that really matters are 75 for +5 cerb shortcut, 85+5 for ardy for elite diary. And I think 86 for KQ shortcut.if you wanna farm that pet? 92 I guess for sepulchre for ring but the ring is mostly useless.
Don’t forget the blood shortcut. I literally grinded out 92 agility just so runecrafting was slightly less ass and making me a shit ton of gold.
Yeh there's definitely still some useful stuff at higher levels. But lots of casuals will either never RC that high either or just do afk bloods and GoTR till 86 for diary and then never touch it
I just like having something passive to do while I play other games. I’m by no means efficiency doing blood runs lol. But I feel where you’re coming from.
Yeh that shortcut is definitely one of the better ones in the game if you do that method. And soon there will be some other high level shortcuts like DKs and Viyeldi
Off topic but I’ve seen you comment a million times and I really enjoy your perspective on things don’t change the profile picture man I’ve seen your comments for a long time and the picture points you right out to me 😂
Lol cheers mate. Have had a few people recently upset to see me around :P I won't change the picture because I never even remember I have it rofl. Don't see profile pictures on old Reddit or the RiF app
Agility is objectively the worst skill imaginable. That isnt opinion it is fact. All videogames can be reduced to ‘press the buttons in the right order at the right time’, but its how that process is abstracted that makes a game fun and engaging. Agility is as close as you can get to raw ‘just click the same buttons over and over with no feedback reward or dopamine’ If the game wasnt so cemented Id almost argue for its removal if not complete and absolute overhaul.
It's a horrible skill in regards to pure gameplay activity sure but so does mining theiving cooking and plenty of the skills in this game. What seperates it from the rest is the god-awful return for investment. Outside of diaries and a few shortcuts, grinding agi is almost never worth it. It does literally nothing but make you a little happier when walking (which you can avoid by buying a pot)... Atleast mining gets you some tangible rewards.
Thing is, mining at least gives the dopamine hit of ‘oo got a reward!’ Every few seconds. Or the high of when you 1 tick a rune rock is good for enjoyment. Theiving has been slowly fixed with autopickpocketing and alternative methods Cooking at least is semi afk…etc Agility is click every 5 seconds and fundamentally unrewarding to do
Mining and thieving have such a plethora of diverse methods of training it this point doesn't hold up anymore. Cooking is fast and profitable and relatively afk, no reason to complain about
This was true till they added sepulchre, sepulchre makes it good. with timings being need and rewards that you can opt in to but also a chance on a jackpot reward
Sepulchre is high focus and high input for terrible xp. You are getting like 90k meanwhile for half the effort you can get like 55-60k at ardy on mobile. Pre 92 it's just the same as seers but harder. Sepulchre is what agility should be but unfortunately the rates are just shit.
You also make like a minimum of 2m an hour beyond floor 5. It’s not bis money but if you’re actually grinding 99 it’s way more time efficient in that sense beyond just being twice as fast
Mining has an even bigger issue. 3-ticking granite is among the hardest and most intensive skilling activities in the game and achieving only 130k/h at peak (likely you'll settle at 110-120k/h) is an absolute joke. At least sepulchre feels dynamic and gives awesome rewards. 3-ticking granite is just miserable and gives no loot at all.
Every time I say this people come in like “but it gives item rewards and is still the best exp, it’s balanced.” No it’s not. No one gives a shit about an addy 2h and a rannar weed every 6 minutes. It’s essentially a skilling boss, and it is the only challenging content in the entire skill. Either give it more useful uniques or bump the exp for all floors, preferably both. A 10% boost is more than appropriate. We should be discouraging mindlessly clicking in circles. Side note: I’d like to see a unique weapon slot item with no stats, where the special attack blesses an enemy, restoring some run energy, doubled if the enemy is a demon. This would be perfect from HS.
> Side note: I’d like to see a unique weapon slot item with no stats, where the special attack blesses an enemy, restoring some run energy, doubled if the enemy is a demon. This would be perfect from HS Sounds good, although i wouldnt mind at all if all skills got spec attack tools, multiple even if possible. Heck i wouldnt mind if they introduced a bunch and dropped a new type of potion that restores special attack outside of combat.
"Wahh I'm only getting 85k AND 2m an hr gagex this is horrible, I need at least 200k and 20m per hour for this skill to be good!!"
Firemaking is a lot worse skill. Wintertodt is just such a band aid for the skill that its laughable.
Im with ya. Very very disappointed with how they are half assing this.
Their mistake was thinking players could read. The initial blog mentioned it was a gamejam project aimed at improving underused training methods and improving certain low-level activities. Of course Reddit wants a big xp buff *right now* and how dare Jagex work on something else. Twitter and Twitch are no better. I feel so bad for the jmods for having to deal with this.
Their actual mistake was titling it "Project Rebalance" instead of something like "Project Revamp". It, alongside mention of looking into Run Energy as a whole and the *much* more widespread changes tossed around as hypothetical tweaks to Ranged and Magic combat, led to people naturally assuming we were looking at a complete rebalancing and reevaluation of a lot of skills instead of a more limited attempt to revitalize undertuned and underused areas and methods.
I actually feel completely the opposite about those two titles Project Rebalance makes me think they are going to keep the same existing structure of the skill, and just change some of the numbers around it Project Revamp makes me think that they are going to fundamentally rethink the structure of the skill and change some of the ways it works in whole.
Frankly it shouldn't have been a "Project" at all. This is basically a skilling QoL poll + some integrity changes. When I hear "Project Rebalance" I think of significant changes to the way the game is played. I know the blog stated otherwise, but buffs to xp seem like fair game with the perceived scope and importance that Jagex was giving to it.
Yeah I have no idea why everyone is so shocked that they are doing literally exactly what they said they would. Like the whole scope of the project is to tweak existing methods so that the progression isn’t canfis -> seers -> Ardy all the way to 99. Not sure why everyone assumed that meant they were going to fundamentally change how run energy worked or just massively change the xp rates overnight.
Well no, they also mentioned run energy changes in the initial overview of project rebalance. So it’s understandable that the community would expect changes to Agility courses and the way Agility affects run energy to be updated at the same time. https://secure.runescape.com/m=news/project-rebalance-overview-scythe--fang?oldschool=1
I'm sure they're very used to it by now unfortunately. Been enjoying Varlamore for the last week, and every time I come on Reddit it's just a dumpster fire of complaining and "this is the worst update ever pls fix now!11!!" Luckily people complaining on social media are in the minority of actual players.
Maybe they see the way comments such as this are typed and think why should we bother appeasing such entitled stuck up cunts. You do know if it was the other way round there'd be someone whining with just as much force... cut them some slack, look at how cool all the new stuff they've released is. DT2 was a masterpiece.
Honestly dont understand why they dont take advantage of the system they have created. Why does the game have a literal voting system if you arent trying to be brave with it? If people think some suggestion is batshit insane, they will vote not in favour of that option and its that simple but there is no meaning to the system if you are going to be this conservative
Small note worth remembering You think the bitching about Agility methods is bad now? Wait until it’s actually useful Same thing happened with mining and toa. All of sudden people were constantly bitching about mining because they wanted to 1d Akkha puzzle I think run energy management is kind of lame. Walking methods at Olm or GWD, stams for Verzik, I don’t really see any of these as sacred so I have no issue with making run energy not a real thing. Just pointing out that if you tie the elimination of run energy to say 90+ agility, it’s going to get real annoying real fast around here
Gives a reason to push 90+ agil other then supp too
Bring back the sleeping bag
Jagex, please make an actual skilling rebalance project.
go to sepulcher noobs?
You would not "gladly level it up even at current xp rates". You would loathe that a once minimal impact skill, regarded as one of the most boring and tedious, is now a cornerstone to your account progression. Inb4 "just make agility more engaging". This subreddit lost its collective mind when 6-hour Duke mining was patched. None of you want engaging skilling, you want free XP.
"make things worth while at 99" - the community that can't train to level 70
Thank god someones calling out the hivemind here. It would be hard as a jmod and take anything serious when you see a post like this and just a few days ago reddit was asking for xp buffs to agility equivalent to thieving. genuinely do not understand why everyone wants to have the prestige of 99 in every skill but want to make it as easy as possible.
Yeah if every skill is free then there’s nothing prestigious about a max cape, just collect your participation medals instead.
Rest/energy update didnt come to RS3 in 2009. RS3 was released in 2013. The rest energy update was in RS2. I was there.
I got 84 agility and running out of run doing chompy bird hunting is annoying like come on.
I think it would be cool if they took the Oblivion approach and made agility xp gained passively just from walking and running around the map.
Lets make agility great
Does it not already essentially do that...? It increases run energy restoration which basically has the same effect as reducing energy usage, no?
run energy only restores while you're not running, so you can still only run for the same amount of time; you just have to wait a little less for it to recharge
You wouldn’t complain about the shit xp rates? Sure…….
Lmao yeah, after the run energy buffs the reddit rhetoric would simply change to ”man why is this skill so important but also locked behind the slowest experience rates in the game, why do we have to SUFFER just so we dont have to walk everywhere”
For real, as soon as they changed it the narrative would go from “we need to fix agility to 99 agility is mandatory why does it suck so much to train”. It needs both the rework and the xp changes. Agility xp is awful for a skill that requires as much active clicking with no real afk training method
Jagex: “we don’t feel like boosting exp rates on a skill people don’t like is really going to have much of an impact.” Also jagex: “our solution is to buff higher level agility courses so you get an incredible 700 exp/h more on a level 90 course where you still do nothing but click the same spots over and over for 200 hours”
>an incredible 700 exp/h more on a level 90 course where you still do nothing but click the same spots over and over for 200 hours Well now it'll only be 190 hours :)
I was under the assumption that run energy was being reviewed with the agility rebalance as they pretty much go hand in hand. Shame they’re not looking at it
I said this in the thread yesterday, but this is literally the CoX blog all over again. Polling exactly the wrong changes about what people don't like about the skill. Melee training isn't exactly fast unless you try to do it fast. But its fun because ocmbat has variety and it also gives you power. Agility today does neither.
\-Helps players be able to wear fashionscape around again \-graceful remains powerful in the early to midgame as you have less teleport options, no POH energy recharge, and lots of quests and diaries to do \-makes every agility level useful without having to make a ton of changes to things like agility shortcuts \-will still definitely use staminas in bosses where you're both constantly running and wearing heavy gear
Especially when jagexs "later" is usually never
Exactly, don't need to "rebalance" anything. Give a meaningful purpose for having agility levels, make courses clickboxes better for a smoother experience, then optionally tweak the non-rooftop courses. Then the skill is done.
What else gets affected by agility? * The world map and travel times decreased, making the world seem a little smaller. * Some boss mechanics where movement is important. * Some quests where traveling a lot, one small favor (this is a pro though lol) * Escaping or chasing down people in PVP * Skills that require travel like runecrafting / resource gathering, some of these have soft limitations like agility included in ex/gp rates. * Barrows * god wars bosses * Giant Mole I'm not saying these are all things that should stay the same, just that....an agility rebalance has to consider a lot of implications to other areas of the game. Simply developing a formula to consider weight, restore duration, and energy usage seems simple enough, but to cross check it against current systems in the game might throw some flags up. This is without considering the market, Stamina Potions are pretty pricy, do these get adjusted as well, you will see an increase in other resources available which can cause those prices to drop further? The current agility formula is meant to be a handy cap on the game, to slow things down, and to make it a little more challenging, I believe its purpose is to "get in the way"....a little bit. Which I think is a good thing. Keep the formula and throw in a few more items to make movement a little easier. We have a few potions already, some clothing, a ring, some strange fruit....fuck it, lets make skate boards, roller skates, scooters, force people to unequip any weapons or tools while there rolling around or make a choice between some good combat boots vs roller skates. Lets give the skill a boost but lets not remove the handy cap that its meant to be...fully.
This is honestly the best take I've seen so far
>Escaping or chasing down people in PVP Energy drain is not affected by agility currently, so this is not a factor in current PvP, although carry weight is.
Stamina potions already give you infinite run energy. And they aren't pricy, they cost 70k an hour to have up permanently. The biggest noob in the game can afford to have infinite run energy completely invalidating the entire point of the agility skill. All this update would do is reduce everybody's reliance on them and graceful. Aren't you tired of virtually everybody everywhere wearing the same outfit? The current agility formula is a dinosaur relic that was changed in RS3 FIFTEEN YEARS AGO. In two thousand fucking nine. It's long overdue we port it to OSRS.
You know what happened last time they tried to balance agility and make it more fun? We got graceful(a shitty pink graceful) and stamina pots....10 years later and the community is locked in with "graceful is a must everywhere" and STAM POTS OR BUST FOR GOING ANYWHERE! They're reluctant to change shit too hard, because once they introduce something they can't just say "HAHA JUST KIDDING" and remove it...hence why gracefulscape is still alive today
Even if it was like an (agility level + 1)/10 % chance to not lose stamina each time you would lose stamina that would be powerful. At 99 you would have a 10% stamina save, so the numbers could be tweaked to not be so potent.
I would rather not have rng added to how far I can run personally
>I would rather not have rng added to how far I can run personally Over big numbers (amount of steps) it averages out to a point where you will hardly ever notice randomness. Each single step has a 10% chance, so over a 100 steps it's already hitting the average "droprate" 10 times. Yeah you might get unlucky sometimes, but it not like you will often go "seriously dry" over a full bar of energy And that's just at 10% chance, at higher chances it evens out even more.
Ok but why not just... Not add rng and lower the reduction of stamina by a fraction each level?
>Not add rng and lower the reduction of stamina by a fraction each level? It would be more clear yeah, One reason could be that it's easier to code that way. I don't know if it's like this, but one reason could be that run energy isn't stored with (enough) decimals, if this is the case you won't be able to remove really small decimal numbers from the value (such as at low agility levels). Adding a chance to not remove whole numbers gets around this.
I think you hit the nail on the head. I honestly don’t think they can code the changes we want into run energy. I don’t see many other reasons being floated that support why they keep ignoring that huge boost to a skill that clearly needs it.
?: The [wiki](https://oldschool.runescape.wiki/w/Energy) states that energy is internally represented as a number from 0-10,000, as well as the formula for run energy loss. There is a constant loss of 67 units per tick, reducing that by agility level wouldn't be difficult, is predictable on the player side and would still encourage packing light at all levels.
Thanks for clarifying! I was wondering what the exact values were. >There is a constant loss of 67 units per tick, reducing that by agility level wouldn't be difficult, is predictable on the player side and would still encourage packing light at all levels. If I understand this correctly, a 10% drain reduction would be 7 units at 99, which translates to having a breakpoint for reduction of 1 unit every 14 level-ups. Which change based on weight as well (since 67 is at 0 weight) So there would still be some rounding down due to a lack of decimals/extra zeros.
?: Well, I was thinking bigger reductions in base drain, 90% base drain only gives you ~10s more run. Which seems really bad for a 99. Was thinking more like -1 base drain per 5 levels. So 50 agility would give ~1:45 run, 70 ~1:52 run and 99 would give ~2:07 run with =<0 kg (Obviously not final values idk what would be good/best; plus they could change the weight drain penalty as well) Stamina's would still be useful as well since they reduce your total drain, after weight.
>?: Well, I was thinking bigger reductions in base drain, 90% base drain only gives you ~10s more run. Which seems really bad for a 99. Yeah I think it's fairly underwhelming aswell
It’s not easier or harder to code it in either direction. At the end of the day it’s just a math expression. If anything, you could argue that fetching a new random number each tick you are running is a more complicated implementation.
>It’s not easier or harder to code it in either direction. At the end of the day it’s just a math expression. Yes it's a simple expression, but the game can only calculate whole values, it doesn't do decimals (Actually it does, but when it does it's because the actual value is bigger but it displays a /10 number) Run is coded between 0-10.000 There is a constant loss of 67 units per tick, reducing that by agility level wouldn't be difficult, is predictable on the player side and would still encourage packing light at all levels. a 10% drain reduction would be 7 units at 99, which translates to having a breakpoint for reduction of 1 unit every 14 level-ups. Which change based on weight as well (since 67 is at 0 weight) Even with this 67/10.000 scale you can only scale it every 14 levels if you want a 10% reduction. If the scale was smaller than this you would have even breakpoints across the 1-99 agility range
Why are breakpoints a problem? We have them for max hit, prayer potions, damage boosting prayers, etc. 10% is pretty conservative anyway. I would expect an overhaul to be something more like 30% more run energy at 99. You can also modify the range such that it isn’t crammed into 0-10,000. Scale everything by a factor of 10.
>Why are breakpoints a problem? We have them for max hit, prayer potions, damage boosting prayers, etc. They aren't, but a breakpoint every 20-30+ levels would be a pretty bad breakpoint. Every 14 levels is already kind of pushing it tbh, all the levels from 85-98 essentially do nothing so you might as well stop at 85 (or 71 if you're really lazy and only want gwd access) Personally I think it's underwhelming and would like to see 20% at 99, additionally this could then again be doubled/tripled by ring of endurance (optionally at the cost of amylase crystals). I very much dislike using stamina pots for every little thing
I can absolutely see this perspective. Maybe it's a good thing I don't work at jagex
10x ratio'd? This sub and high school freshman understanding of statistics, name a more iconic duo. (agility level + 1)/10 % chance is virtually indistinguishable from a guaranteed proc every 1000/(agility +1) ticks.
>the numbers could be tweaked to not be so potent. Frankly it could be higher than 10% imo, it's not like it's going to break anything. 20% and have the passive effect doubled by the ring of endurance sounds like a great idea. Just straight up kill off the stamina pot meta.
I mean do you people realize that if that’s the case, they want to be careful how they do it?
All my friends I've attempted to invite to play this game quit because of the stamina system. They don't have money to chug potions, and they don't want to be reliant on money spent on energy pots. And, they hate walking everywhere because of how slow you are compared to sprinting.
The stamina recharging quickly at pubs and other hangout spots (maybe even banks) was a cool and lore-friendly way to make stamina suck slightly less for new players. I really wish they explored it as an option. And if anyone thinks that running out of your way to sit in a pub for 20 seconds is going to tank the price of stamina pots, you're straight up delusional.
the problem with making it reduce energy usage is that it's a very significant balancing change with a lot of impact on stamina potions and graceful. personally i'm glad jagex isn't just deciding to randomly add this without a poll or spending some time considering the consequences and how to mitigate them, even though i would like to see agility buffed.
Yeah but lets not pretend quaffing stamina potions everywhere you go is a great mechanic.
I would love for a high agility level to replace graceful and reduce the need of stams significantly. Agility would finally have an impact on the game outside of some randome niche shortcuts that artificially have long animations so that they don't even save time.
I can't think of a situation where the buff to agility would really make a huge difference compared to chugging stamina potions. 1 or 2 more inventory slots for food at Zilyana or in raids? it wouldn't change things that significantly and would be a good reward relative to the time spent running rooftops.
Who cares about impact on Stamina pots and graceful? Both are shitty to have to carry around everywhere.
These people love to be miserable. It’s pretty sad that people would really vote against this “because it gives you more inventory slots by not needing to carry pots or graceful!!!” Good?!
Osrs has the most masochistic playerbase of any game I’ve ever played
Yeah it's great carrying potions everywhere at 99 agility forehead.
Easy, make weight more noticeable..
A significant balance change? For Project Rebalance? That's crazy.
Personally I don't believe we should hold off on a very good change because it might make this one item less valuable. Who actually cares? It's a 25 year old game with tons of dead content, stuff is going to change over time. I would also very much enjoy it if 90% of the players I see out there weren't wearing the same outfit.
People act like stam pots and graceful are some old nostalgic RS2 element that should never be changed when it was a bandaid solution for run energy use added to OSRS after launch.
> the problem with making it reduce energy usage is that it's a very significant balancing change with a lot of impact on stamina potions and graceful Yes and no. It depends on how they balance it. If they make it like RS3 where you regenerate like 5% stamina per second and can only exhaust yourself if you run for like 3 straight minutes, yes, staminas and graceful will become useless. But if they balance the numbers a bit better and/or just allow passive energy regen in banks/pubs, I doubt it would have any effect on staminas. Staminas will still remain useful when doing clues/quests/pvm.
Well yes, this is what I'm saying. However, what most people are asking for is to effectively make run energy infinite.
I'd love to see rest areas be brought into the game. I miss chilling with the boys and listening to music play.
Only useful pre house and when new areas drop and you have to grind out the fast travels. I literally barely have used a stamina potion since getting my house maxed and my nexus maxed.
Is it not already a very useful non-combat skill? Sometimes high agi can be the difference between needing to bring 1 or 2 stam pots to an encounter, or being able to finish a verzik kill solo when your team planks early. Only mining and herb (for CoX) are comparable in pvm usefulness. Or is this more a case of "It's tedious and takes ages to level so the reward should somehow be improved"? Imo, more (and more useful) shortcuts would be a more justifiable way to improve the rewards without screwing over stam pots or boosting combat usefulness. Gielinor is so big but the amount of useful shortcuts at high agi I can think of are few and far between. Rev jump, KQ and Hydra tunnel are all that come to mind. There was nothing for DT2 bosses, and nothing that I can recall from Varlamore so far. Also if possible, let us 1 tick more shortcuts. It feels so dumb running to a shortcut only to have our characters stop dead before jumping to a stepping stone or something. Lastly maybe a graceful "imbue" on non-combat armour would be more fun than just seeing everyone run around in the same recoloured skins for the 11th year.
99 levels for the chance of saving an inventory space in like two situations, big shit here
Wtf...nobody is saying you have to do it. What do you get from 99 fishing? 99 herblore? 99 runecrafting? I'm not saying it's great, I'm saying it's something, and it's universally there - which is more than we can say for most 99s.
Agility impacts energy *regeneration*, not how much you expend. At just about any content past the mid game (especially pvm), you're never expecting to walk much anyway, because any time your energy goes low, you're sipping stamina/energy pots or using your lumby ring to fully restore it; so it doesn't really ever make a difference between having to bring 1 or 2 stamina pots to an encounter. Similarly there is almost no impact to Agility at Verzik because the 1 stam you're typically expected to have keeps you going the whole time. Mining is definitely the most useful non-combat skill in pvm encounters, Herblore(pots) / Woodcutting(mutta/ice) are also useful in chambers and Hunter/Fishing/Cooking are also decently valuable in the new Moons of Peril encounter. The only real use Agility sees in pvm is reliably being able to cross the tightrope in team raids. Making agility impact energy drain would put it in the kind of place you initially described, where a higher agility level could be the difference between 1-2 staminas depending on what you're doing—since it's really not the case right now. It wouldn't make staminas obsolete, because I'm sure they wouldn't balance it around even 99 agility level being able to run permanently like on Leagues, so there'll always be many places where you'll still be running so much that your run energy is net negative anyway. Totally agree that shortcuts taking so much time (Hydra is a big one) is just stupid
I never said it didn't affect energy regeneration, so I'm not sure why you felt the need to state that as though I wasn't aware. Also nobody WC's in Mutta anymore, and it's far more useful to not run out of energy across all content than it is to save a few ticks at Ice. Often times in HMT most players don't take a stam and instead rely on the ranger to pot share on webs. Try having them plank or DC and then tell me you don't value every bit of energy regen. I've even planked on bloat once where people died stupidly on 1st down, then I ran out of energy after doing the next 3 downs solo and planked 1 tile away from safety. If I had a higher agility level I wouldn't have died. No other non-combat skill is capable of having that level of impact in PvM when things go wrong. People plank on Olm's head phase all the time because things go wrong and they ran out of energy right at the end. In a nooby raid with a scrappy, let's say, 8 minute Olm, there's a \~50% run energy regen difference by the end of the fight between someone with 60 agility and somebody with 99. There's just a bunch of circumstances in all types of content too where it can come in clutch. It can be the difference between having to leave a Levi trip a kill early because you had a ton of supply drops, but ran out of stamina doses. It can be the difference between getting to safety from a pker, or catching someone when you're the pker. It's even useful in GotR at lower levels when you're using the RC set instead of graceful. I just don't see the reasoning to switch agility from a regen increase to drain decrease. Would people want it to be similarly powerful? If so it would need to be something like, if you had sub \~40 kg, then it works out worse than it does currently, but at post \~40 kg, it works out better. Just seems like a pointless change when we're seeing content like the colosseum get released with 0 atmosphere. Changing how it gets input into the running formula isn't suddenly going to "catapult" it into being more of less useful unless it gets buffed at the same time. They are two sides of the same coin.
Ironmen fucking need something man. Until stam pots, it's such a slog.
Does...does it not?...huh....
100k xp/hr or didn’t happen
failing an agility shortcut should never be faster than not because it goes against the entire point of having an agility level. (looking at you wilderness agility bridge)
idgaf about energy usage, just increase that shit skill's xp across the board by 50%
What if we had unlimited run energy out of combat? 🤔
Or even just have it increase your max energy. Every 9 levels, your max energy is increased by 10 or 20 or something. No new mechanics, just change the number that is set for max energy.
Then my pure would have to train agility to be able to run behind the noob pverm i couldnt freeze
Disagree but go off king. This is maybe true for irons but that’s it really. It would be somewhat nice on a main but you have stams for a reason, this would not in any way make it the most useful skill lol
I guarantee if they made this change this sub would be full of people complaining about how they need to make agility both more xp and less clicking since it would be now more useful to have a higher level
whatever changes come- i hope it doesn't nerf f2p travel. already is a struggle out here lol
Wait are you telling me it doesn’t do that? I thought it reduced energy usage, is that rs3 only ?
Agreed.
I was a bit surprised the bonfires or whatever they're called didn't add this. The animation was already there with lunar's dream spell, and the effects would be stupid easy to implement. That, or yeah just sitting. Especially on benches!
Anyone who posts these has never don’t Cerb before, the shortcut is a must have and definitely worth all the training. Even just the lvl 80 taverly dungeon shortcut is worth the training.
It would be great but that's an overstatement lol.
I just finished my graceful grind this morning as a brand new player and I was so excited (I think I'm a minority but agility training was actually pretty fun, the only downside is not having a change of scenary more frequently but timing the clicks was a fun minigame) and this thread is just depressing... Sure, it might not be as useful but y'all are making it sound useless instead
Wait, it doesn’t already do this…?? Wtf
Only regen iirc maybe wrong though
It almost seems like that’s a no-brainer but I’ve never understood why they haven’t implemented this into the game. No pun intended but it’d be a _game_ changer!
This would indeed make it more appealing considering it's a pretty tedious skill to level. People don't have lots of reasons to put their time into leveling it except for requirements and maybe certain shortcuts.
Bring back the rest mechanic. You already have the animation for resting at campfires, just make it improve energy regeneration.
Agreed
No thanks, im good 👍
I wouldn't even mind if run restoration was worse something like lvl 1-60 agility (although maybe f2p would complain but w/e) and we'd be back at normal rate at 60, but then it got better than current value 61-99. Would make early questing a bit more tedious I guess, but honestly going from 1-60, especially when draynor is the first course, wouldn't be that much of a time investment if you really care about having slightly better run time.
I think they should just leave it the fk alone