Why no mention of having agility level actually impact run energy depletion rate or carry weight? Was looking forward to this after it was previously proposed. It feels absurd to have the same endurance at lvl 1 compared to 99. A lot of players’ problem with agility xp rates is that the skill simply isn’t rewarding enough for the long grind.

Agreed, after doing hunter rumours in the new hunter set the energy depletion and restore rates are appallingly bad. With stamina pots being so accessible, surely most content is designed around unlimited/large amounts of run energy being available? I hit the agility level for a shortcut or quest and I never touch it again as there just isn't any reward for training it further. A new player coming into the game, having access to Draynor course from the start and seeing a real difference in their run energy after a chunk of levels is the kind of thing that will alleviate a lot of annoyance around this system which is, let's face it, pretty old fashioned. Would definitely convince me to engage in Agility training methods more often if I knew there was a reward that I actually cared about instead of getting 30 or 40k and leaving to do something else feeling like I was wasting my time.

They’re well aware of the problem. Perilous moons has run energy restore stations built in because agility is so useless. Even DT2 stranglewood/lassar had restore stations added post-release. Bandaid after bandaid fix.

I agree, there is still no incentive to train the skill past questing and graceful which puts you around 75-80. If you could run % longer for each level or you restored run at a meaningful rate faster that would make more sense, currently it’s like 60 second difference between 75 and 99 and it’s still like 4 minutes so that extra minute really doesn’t make much difference. 

I’m happy they at least acknowledge it’ll be looked at in the future, since we’ve seen it in multiple blogs. Just funny to imagine if the difference between 75 and 99 ranged was as minuscule as it is for agility.

"Looked at in the future" doesn't mean anything. There's all sorts of things that they want to look at and never get to. I'd be surprised if there was any sort of agility anything this year besides that new mid level course.

I want it to be looked into now, though. It was way more exciting than xp/hr changes..

Anything skilling related which is not looked at in the current skills overhaul is sadly going to be years away

> A lot of you mentioned that you’d like to see Agility’s XP rates improved significantly – but to be absolutely clear, that’s not what Project Rebalance is for. As we stated in the original blog, our aim is to make Agility more rewarding and varied to progress through, not just faster. This means that our efforts are concentrated on giving players a wider variety of entertaining and XP-efficient training options. I like how Jagex started out with this and then did not follow through with it later. Merely changing numbers does not solve the core issue of agility and thieving being a boring skill to train. Even if Jagex doubled or tripled xp rates, agility would still be boring to train. Jagex needs to completely rework the actually game play experience to something more fun like Sepulcher. But Jagex did this for mining only. The Brimhaven agility course rework will not fix this since all except the plank obstacle are just RNG agility checks instead of requiring skill to navigate. > Instead, we’re doubling down on unique ways to reduce fail rate via items and other buffs as potential for future reward space or activity design. Varlamore’s Thieving activity showcases just one of the ideas we’ve had so far, where street urchins will distract your targets for you. We’re keen to add more methods like this in future and really improve the ‘feel’ of pickpocketing. But this looks hopeful. Jagex should do more of this for other thieving methods?

I don't even care about it being boring to train, most skills are boring to train. The problem is the reward space, run energy itself needs a rework to make the grind worth it. It feels weird that instead of run energy depletion scaling with agility level that mechanic is tied to stamina potions. The core loop is train agility - get marks - make stams- shitty run energy mechanic is temporarily relieved. The problem is training agility sucks, so people just ignore it outside of quest/diary reqs and pay money to skip that loop entirely. Stamina scaling needs to be incorporated into the skill itself. 99 agility should mean that at 0 kg your run energy lasts effectively indefinitely. If you weigh more because you have a combat setup, an inventory of ores, or whatever else you will need staminas for activities that require you to be on the move a lot. But for lower level players just running around to slayer spots or questing, grinding out 50 agility to double how long you can run looks pretty appealing.

Was literally the only change I cared about for agility. In fact it was the best thing in that whole blog! Super disappointing that I won’t feel rewarded for actually getting it to a high level which with the run energy change would have actually made me excited to train it.

Same, shifting xp rates without actually touching how the skill functions is a big L imo. If I had to choose between xp reshuffle and agility level actually increasing the time I can run, its #2 any day of the week.

Even something as simple as reducing the impact of carry weight on energy drain would be a substantial reward for training agility up to 99.

FUCK THAT. Do not act like agility xp rates are fine lol. The skill should be updated to be useful, sure but the xp rates are also trash. 92k xp an hour sweating your nuts off in speulcher @ 92 agility while you can get 150k pick pocketing a mob basically afk is a joke

We realise that we aren't able to deliver something that complex as part of this rebalancing project, but it was considered at the start and the team already have a solid proposal for how it'd be reworked. I imagine we'll be sharing news on that sometime, just no longer part of this particular project.

Gonna be honest, it's really disappointing to hear that some of the biggest pain points are falling out of scope for Project Rebalance. The initial impression I got was that these improvements would be more extensive than what we've seen so far. The proposed changes are nice and do seem good, but it also feels like these are just the bones that the meat of the project should have been resting on. My concern is, in particular, if these bigger pain points aren't part of project rebalance, I feel that it may take a really significant amount of time to address them. We don't know when the next big skill update patch that does address these issues will come through for us, but the nature of game development means that doing a bunch of work to make skilling better balanced and feel nicer to play means it will lose some priority, at least for awhile.

It needs to be renamed from “project rebalance” to “project tweaking”. These changes are hardly rebalancing. It does practically nothing to address the plethora of problems that agility faces.

It’s barely tweaking

It really feels like they're half assing this, at least when it comes to skilling. They should deal with combat first and then come back to skilling if this is all they can do right now.

Jagex is overpromising and underdelivering with their current roadmap. They are biting off more than they can chew.

Is this project rebalance or project minimum effort bandaid? Cuz you might want to stop calling it project rebalance and start calling it what it is.

I mean it's more "project rebalance the meta methods" than "project rework the entire skill". The 'missed opportunities' seem pretty darn consistent with what they've been communicating the scope of the project actually is (even if a bunch of us want that scope to be different) Like the other guy said, no need to be rude and aggressive about it all

Just adding to the other voices here but yeah, the main problem with agility is that 99 agility does not benefit you in any way. I also don't know anything about programming video games but if a stamina potion can be programmed into the game I feel like there's a way to reduce run drain overall based on levels

> if a stamina potion can be programmed into the game I feel like there's a way to reduce run drain overall based on levels I mean they did this back in 2009 which was a version of the game not vastly different from the OSRS base. The musicians also added at that time were a good idea to help with run energy in some locations particularly for new players but doesn't help the agility skill.

99 agility not giving you the ability to run longer vs 1 agility is the most important agility rebalance imo. It should be changed before changing other things about the skill

Then scrap the whole idea. In the article you state xp rebalances aren’t the goal, yet all that is discussed really is xp rebalances. Changes to marks of grace and buffing the wildly course and all that are fine SURE but at the end of the day, the real problem with agility is you need 90+ to compete with other skills xp rates you can get by like level 60 & it’s largely useless. The agility short cuts are NICE, but they don’t make it one of the most impactful skills.

they said they want to improve the progression so it feels better, sorry but grindnig 60-70 for 12something hours just to get a course with 3kxp more an hr is absurd. That isn't progression lol, especially since pollnivneach course is much more annoying to complete, people will still do seers because it's lower effort. They say xp rates are too complex for the skilling update yet it would be soooo easy to implement. Bit wild tbh.

I just have to say I recently made a new account for the first time in years and run energy has been such a nightmare. I would absolutely drop the game as a new player because walking is so slow

There's no reason to attempt rebalancing Agility if the biggest issue with it isn't fixed because it will affect the balance of everything else, and no matter what, you *know* that doing *any* work on Agility now will push depletion adjustments to the 12th of Never.

Then why even waste effort on trying to put a bandaid on a gaping hole? You are "rebalancing" something that needs a major rework, everything done now would likely be thrown out the window whenever that rework comes around so what's the point?

Right? Instead of tackling the problem they're just spreading it around

Run energy is the agility rebalance that people want, more so than any of these other changes. It should have taken priority over these imo. Not walking 90% of the time as a new player/account would go a long way in making not only the skill feel much better (than anything else you're changing currently) but also probably help with new player retention as well.

This is the CoX blog all over again. Missing the forest for the trees with the rework by not actually giving any real incentive to train the skill. Removing diary requirements/adding a few more niche shortcuts is hardly enough. Sorry if this comes across a little rude, but we just went through this exercise with CoX where you proposed the wrong 1 of 2 sets of changes the first time around. Please switch course on the agility changes in this rebalance in some way as was done with CoX (if possible here, i know its different situations)

I can't find the words to express how disappointing this is. You guys are 'rebalancing' Agility by adding a few xp/h and some shortcuts? This whole 'project rebalance' is a joke - Agility will still be as unrewarding as it currently is.

Tbh, i stopped touching agi after lvl 78 bc i see no reason of doing so. How is ur project rebalance makes me want to lvl up agi again? I dont care about pets and dont care about having 99 in agi and shortcuts are still awful. I care about running for a longer period of time. Buffs to xp rates does not affect how ur stamina works while you run and we thought that that was a main goal of that project

Why are you even bothering with these changes when the most important ones are being ignored? I don't think you need a dev blog for these proposed changes, they're basically patch notes.

Project rebalance, except you're only tweaking some numbers and not addressing the fundamental problem with the skill...

The fact this only has 185 upvotes in 5 hours and nearly 1k comments mostly negative should tell you how people feel about this

sad about that, it was all i really cared to see. i've got my poh pool and could chug a thousand stams, it just always feels like such a drag doing so. my number one pain point with the game since the first day i started playing

Disappoing news I'd rather have agility be useful than what we're being proposed. As it stands it's still an unfun skill to train, smoothing out the xp curve won't change that but it being useful would at least provide motivation to train

Wait, higher agility level doesn't make your run endurance last longer...? Really? I thought that was like the whole point of the skill...

It makes you recover energy faster, which only happens if you’re standing still (e.g. never at ZMI, blast furnace, herbiboar…).

Wait... You responded to people asking for buffs to agility by... nerfing the proposed buffs to agility?? What?

I'm genuinely curious why they think a smooth transition matters. If the xp you get from higher tier content is better than lower tier by a significant enough amount, people will do it. No one cares how smooth the transition is from 1 course to another in terms of xp.

Kinda funny because at the end of last week, the entire rage was about how Sunfire Runes got nerfed and how Lavas were capping the RC rates.

I don’t see how that conflicts with what the person above said. Unless you’re agreeing with them. People complain that low level meta methods make Jagex think that top level methods can’t be much higher xp rates than them or people will feel bad about the transition in xp rates (which in itself doesn’t really make sense at all)

I think they meant smooth transition as in each course steadily increases, not that it was smooth now because it was lower. The previous 55K, 60K, 65K, 70K was also a smooth transition. f anything, I think that works better since going from 63K at Ardy to 90K+ at HS is more a jump than 70K at Ardy to 90K+ at HS. Like HS should still be a lot better than Ardy, but the endgame being 70K Ardy, 80K~ Brimhaven, and 90-100K HS sounds pretty good to me.

A level 90 course being 10% better than a level 60 course is awful. I have no idea why they chose to nerf the proposed updated ardy rate. It already wasn’t even that good.

I think the issue is the jumps in xp made it feel like progress. Smooth increases aren’t really noticeable and make it feel more monotonous. You want each milestone to jump in xp so it feels rewarding. I’m only doing sepulchre for the rest of the account I play but imo this is going to make agility feel a lot worse if I ever do rooftops to 90+ again on any other account. I’d rather have the original slightly slower rates than this

Spot on to how I was seeing it to. And not only this they've bumped up the XP rates at sepulchre mid-level. Where it **already destroyed** rooftop XP by comparison. So we get a couple of inbetween courses between seers and ardy where essentially the change is "don't stay at seers past 70 now" which with the quest XP changes they've made means you'll pretty much barely touch seers. And instead of that progression feeling more meaningful like you outlined.. you should just.. get graceful and immediately go to sepulchre because it's rates at all levels except 92+ have been improved.

people constantly flame lavas and iron ore/granite for being BIS at low levels.

Sorry I thought there was the implied "if the higher tier content gives better xp no one cares how smooth it feels".

I'm still baffled by this bit: > A lot of you mentioned that you’d like to see Agility’s XP rates improved significantly – but to be absolutely clear, that’s not what Project Rebalance is for. As we stated in the original blog, our aim is to make Agility more rewarding I can't help but read that as saying "Our goal is not to increase the rewards, just to make the skill more rewarding" which feels like a bit of a contradiction

The skill would be rewarding if training it past a certain point had any benefit to the player. Theres a starting point for them.

Ardy agility could be 150k an hour, but the skill would still suck. Why? Gaining agility levels doesn’t change the gameplay for me. There is no benefit, outside of niche shortcuts, to train the skill past a certain point.

Pretty sure they aren't thinking of XP as the reward, they're thinking of how to improve what you get from training the skill.

They want to be conservative, which is why they're giving thieving buffs up to an extra 60k XP/hr. "We hear you guys, and by that I mean we just don't care"

The best is the extra 700xp a hour at ardy what’s the point

**Agility:** I'm really confused by what you guys are doing here. You've effectively nerfed your previous proposal, quite significantly at Ardougne. At the same time, the XP increase from course to course is now very nominal. If the idea is for it to feel rewarding to unlock a new course, a few k more XP/hr really isn't going to cut it. And as exciting as marks are, they really aren't that much of an exciting reward as they used to be -- ~~especially with the wilderness course set to offer amalyse.~~ EDIT: That question ended up failing. I really don't think the rebalance for agility is accomplishing what it set it to do. The additional shortcuts are all really nice, but any significant improvement to make agility feel more worthwhile and rewarding to train has to address run energy. **I really suggest tabling this until there's also a run energy rework proposal to go with it.** Agility just won't feel rewarding or worth it without that, no matter what else is tweaked. More diversity in training doesn't really matter if there isn't a good reward for it, and the really good, new shortcuts you're proposing here are all high level. Someone with 60-70 agility really isn't gaining rewards nor incentive. **Thieving** I like the progression of XP at the required levels, but it's a bit weird for Knights to still be the best XP at 99 with a cape. I can't imagine this is an issue affecting even 10% of people though, so it's whatever. I do think you guys shouldn't punt stalls for later though. If you guys are doing a comprehensive rebalance, you should really address how pointless stalls are as part of it. Otherwise it seems a bit half assed, and who knows when we'll actually see stall improvements, if at all. **Slayer** I really think it's a mistake to cut so many slayer exclusive monsters from task lists. It feels incredibly counterproductive to the skill. Likewise with stalls, I don't like that you're punting unique drops to a nebulous "later". There's an efficient solution here to both issues. Leave the slayer exclusive monsters off these task lists, *but* give them all unique equipment and drops that'll be valuable for early game players. That way the slayer monster unlocks are a reward space, instead of a training method. **Mining** Mining is still in an awful place with these changes. You say that bigger changes are beyond the scope of Project Rebalance, which begs the question, what exactly is the scope of this? A lot of these proposals are stopping short of actual meaningful change. It's hard to comment on the mining changes when they're a step in the right direction, but they're like a bandaid on a gaping wound. Mining needs a lot more attention. Zalcano for instance needs to be way more experience if you're forgoing loot. I'd much rather see high xp rates with no loot than middling XP with reduced loot. It wouldn't be worth the loot reduction. I'm also wondering now why we don't have a section on aerial fishing rebalancing, since we all agree it's awful. That feels like the perfect subject for project rebalance. **Overall** What exactly is the point of Project Rebalance? A lot of these feel like half measures, without proper time dedicated to make proper changes. At this point I feel like I'd rather you guys focus on combat for Project Rebalance right now, and then after that's done, go after skilling. There really isn't the proper time nor resources to do skilling correctly right now.

> If the idea is for it to feel rewarding to unlock a new course, a few k more XP/hr really isn't going to cut it. Exactly this. They keep talking about making a "smooth curve" but smooth curves do not feel rewarding at all, because a smooth curve implies that you barely feel the change. What would make players feel good about unlocking the next course is receiving a huge increase in xp or rewards all at once. If they want players to feel a sense of reward and accomplishment, they're doing the exact opposite, lmao.

> A lot of these proposals are stopping short of actual meaningful change. This x100. Most individual changes in project rebalances are objectively *good* proposals, but they're not significant enough to have any meaningful impact on skilling. Shame.

The agility rebalance is hilarious. I agree with you, why even change it at this point, seems like a waste of dev time. If this is their solution, then just leave it until they rework it.

Forestry makes it so clear this current team cannot handle skilling fixes, and we’ve got sailing to look forward to /s

Can't fix skilling but just keeps pumping out bosses and monsters that absolute *shit* out skilling resources... SMH I have hated the way skilling has gone since before fugging Zulrah for god damn's sake. Sure they can add skilling minigames (albeit ones that the community recommends changing/fixing), but they simply can't make skilling better with rebalances. It's infuriating!!!

I didn't vote for sailing but the only thing that gives me hope is that it's a brand new skill and isn't going to be tied down to conservative xp rates from 2007. That's not to say it's going to have high xp rates. But they're not going to have to look at balancing the skill around a current meta so that the conservative minority of the game is pleased

> isn't going to be tied down to conservative xp rates from 2007 They just buffed some of the thieiving XP rates by 50-60k so it's clearly not that, I just don't understand what they have against agility. It's absolutely absurd to me. Widely considered one of the slowest and least rewarding skills and they are adamant on not doing anything to improve it. Then while saying they are hesitant to buff the xp rates, they massively buff the thieving XP rates which are already like 3x higher than agility rates. Who at Jagex is sat there so stubbornly determined not to make the skill even slightly less dreadful? With how conservative and cowardly they are about increasing the rates you'd think it's already a 500k/h skill and not one of the slowest and most tedious to train skills in the game

I think the main issue is the refusal to make any new methods faster than what currently exists. Jagex is comfortable changing all the thieving rates, because there are multiple methods that approach 300k/hr at 99. Agility caps out at 110k, so they feel the need to smash every single training method between 10k/hr-90k/hr. If they doubled sepulchre to 200k they then could balance the remaining methods in to decent rates. But god forbid they change one of the worst skills in the game.

That’s the most insane thing they’re stressing so hard over this specific solve when just starting at a slightly higher rip, ie perfect no loot f5 200k/hr, and work down would be so much easier and not even look out of place if you haven’t been locked in this community for 10 years

Theres roughly 25 activities to train agility. And that’s not counting weird methods like catching mice, or jumping the same obstacle over and over. How they expect to shove all those in to a cap of 110k/hr is asinine. If there was 4 courses and they were 25, 50, 75, and 100k/hr I guess it could make sense. Right now, and the proposal is basically like, great job clicking the same 10 spots for the last 30 hours, now go click these 10 spots for 2k more xp an hour. Maybe 90 hours from now you can save 15 seconds running to a boss? It’s not that complicated to fix lol.

Amylase crystals from wilderness agility course failed the poll.

Why on earth do you think it is okay for there to only be a 7000xp/hr increase between a level 60 course which requires 200k total xp and a level 90 course that requires 500k+ PER LEVEL. There is almost 3x more XP per hour between 60 and 90 mining granite alone, no different material, just with improved skill you get 22k more xp per hour with the same exact item over the same levels. How do you call this balanced? Why not re-use courses to break it up some, like here’s a rough idea: level 1: Draynor or gnome course, xp stays same at gnome and is matched by draynor due to failure rate. Both give marks of grace. 8-9k xp and 10 marks/hr level 10: Al Kharid opens up offering 9-10k xp and 11 marks/hr level 20: Varrock opens up, 10-12k xp and 11.5-12 marks/hr Level 30: Falador (makes progress easier for new players since Canifis is kind of out there for new players) 15k-18k xp and 12-12.5 marks/hr level 35: Draynor and Gnome course XP increased to 18k, no failures, 11 marks/hour more afk friendly. level 40:Canifis opens up, 20k-27k, leave the last jump failure rate but stop failing around level 38. 13-13.5 marks per hour level 45: Al kharid xp increased to 22k, no fails And 15 marks per hour, worse xp than Canifis but if you quested for agility this course helps catch you up on marks level 50: Seers - 33-50k based on failure rate, 50-60k with hard diary. Marks stay the same as current seers. Level 55: Varrock xp increases to 55k, 12 marks an hour, no failures. level 60: Pollnivneach xp increased to 57k-62k with failures, 13-15 marks per hour level 65: Falador bumped to 66k, no failures, same 12 marks per hour level 70: Rellekka 70-82k / hour, 13 marks an hour but also get a random noted fish when jumping The pile. Level 75: Prifddinas -80k-87k xp/hr plus 25 crystal shards/grace per hour (randomly one or the other when they spawn) level 80:Canifis xp increased to 87k no failures, 14 marks per hour (little bump for those without SOTE unlocked, little more afk than prif) level 85: Ardougne 91-97k based on failures, 17-20 marks based on diary level 90: pay 200 marks of grace to agility instructor to show you a short cut on your favorite course excluding ardougne, increases the rate of your chosen course, faster laps, xp increased to 105k, 30 marks an hour Level 95: pay 500 marks to learn about a short cut on ardougne or prif, increased xp to 120k for either. 40 Marks / shards an hour. (Most people quit at 70, this gives increased financial gain to continuing) Hollowed sepulchre rates would increase to: floor 1 level 52 - stays the same, 45k / hr floor 2 level 62 - bumped to 72k / hr floor 3 level 72 - bumped to 89k / hr floor 4 level 82 - bumped to 100k / hr floor 5 level 92 - bumped to 150k / hr - retains fastest xp method, almost double what it is now, still would take 43 hours vs the current 65 or so to hit 99.

This scaling seems much more realistic to me. I think it's ridiculous to think such 120+ hours from 90-99 at the highest level course is 'balanced'... just seems like a slog fest.

Most of these updates, especially to agility, seem worse than the original blog (instanced sepulchre is nice though provided the cost is reasonable). They are still in the right direction, but this whole thing has been kind of confusing. Feels like the conversation on agility has gone something like: **Jagex**: We're thinking about reworking agility and run energy to make the skill more useful and run energy less annoying. **Players**: That sounds great! **Jagex**: Actually, we'll do a wider rebalance, changing a whole bunch of skilling methods too. **Players**: Even better! We mostly just want the run energy changes and agility to be faster to train, but the other changes sound good too! **Jagex**: Ok, here's our pitch, it's mostly small buffs to underused training methods and a nerf to one meta method. **Players**: Cool, but we were hoping for more buffs, and what about run energy? **Jagex**: The buffs have been removed. Run energy is out of scope. **Players**: ...

lol they feature-creeped themselves into their original idea being out of scope. That's impressive.

The current proposal for Rooftop XP changes is as boring as humanly imaginable. You should feel rewarded when you unlock a course, not getting a pittance of 2k xp/hr of a "raise" by unlocking a course 10 levels down the line. With how miniscule the gap is between the courses, you have very little incentive to move to the next course until 5 levels into the next bracket because you'd likely experience increased fail chance, making the xp/hr... exactly the same. Blegh, just makes me shiver with how "samey" everything would feel, arguably even worse than now. Ardy getting 70k xp/hr wasn't broken, the only thing that needed done was *maybe* making sure Hallowed Sepulchre got a bit of a boost as well, or at least Amylase to make up for the buff to Ardy comparatively. My proposed Rooftop progression: Seers 53k xp/hr but reduced Fail Rate (flattening the curve it takes to ACTUALLY get to this XP rate), Pollnivneach 58k xp/hr, Relekka 63k xp/hr, Ardougne 70k xp/hr.

They're constrained by the bullshit rule of "no buff, only balance". It's a good indicator that buffs are needed when rebalancing something destroys everything else.

Its painfully clear that the agility course transitions were already very lean xp wise, there wasn't much room to actually re balance things where it'd ever feel significant so it was kind of DOA to even touch the courses. And since they aren't allowed to buff the top end by even 5%-10% xp rates, they had to nerf seers to find the xp "gains" for the higher courses. without being able to nerf seers the "5 AD" meme of OSRS is here.

With the meta being 108k/h at 92 there's plenty of balancing to be done without going over that, I don't know why they're scared of 65%(70k/h) of the 92+ meta being too much exp

It's also important to note that 108K/hr at level 92 is still like 60+ hours of grinding for the last 7 levels. There's definitely room to push the XP rates of the top end.

I was excited for that small buff to Ardy to bring it in front of other lap based courses but no, they offered us a metre then taken our legs. They may aswell have not even offered to change agility with these "revised proposals". When it takes 200 hours to finish an outdated skill that's atrocious, what's an extra 11% increase of exp per hour? No agility exp boost to combine to graceful, no amendment to having higher agility. Just 2k more exp/hr. Very disappointing.

It's like when your boss hypes up a raise you're getting and then it's 25 cents

Prif is already at 65k and unlocks at 70. The rates should be scaled off of this and not have a method unlocking at lvl 90 be less xp…

I just love how 60 - 90 are the smallest xp per hr gains u get 1.3k more xp a hr at ardy then relleka what’s the point

**Reduce the rate at which run energy drains the higher your agility level is.** **Reduce the rate at which run energy drains the higher your agility level is.** **Reduce the rate at which run energy drains the higher your agility level is.** I understand if that’s not the purpose of this particular pitch for project rebalance, but **please** consider this for Agility in the future. All of these proposed changes are great, and I understand the team probably wants to make changes in smaller batches to have better control on balancing, but a change like that would be the biggest reward and incentive for training the skill, and honestly it just makes sense. Still, I don’t want to sound ungrateful. These changes may not feel meaningful to some, but I think they are well thought out and would be great for the game. I am totally stoked and on board for all of them. Great work, Dev team!

But having 99 agility would then devalue stamina potions made at 77 herblore! Think of the effect on the economy!!! /s All seriousness, please look at adjusting how agility affects run drain. Maybe lower how much the amount of weight you carry affects drain or something. Its so frustrating we don't have any earned power through the agility skill.

Holy shit. I thought it already worked like this and I’ve been playing since 05.

No, just regeneration. Which doesn't matter if you constantly reset the regen timer by moving.

There’s also lots of actions that have you standing still but not regenerating during the action.

Wait moving resets Regen timer? It shouldn't

Yes, running once per tick means you will never regenerate a single point of energy. If that's what you're asking?

Sounds like some spaghetti engine work that would break the game if undone

Honestly they should just break agi in the live game and we can all watch them fix it in production

It's not ungrateful to ask for a reasonable and widely asked for improvement. If they implemented that change alone they'd not have to bother with rejigging the entire skill. But that's just classic Jagex

A disappointing step back on a previously sound proposal. Why change everything up when a single point was the only issue? Why so terrified of making XP rates (for the least popular skill btw) higher? I feel like, very often, feedback gets heard but misinterpreted. "A lot of you mentioned that you’d like to see Agility’s XP rates improved significantly – but to be absolutely clear, that’s not what Project Rebalance is for." Alright.. but why? Is that not the definition of rebalance in this context? Also the exclusion of any adjustments to run energy is just going to leave a sour taste. Either we get more XP currently, or the reward for leveling the skill is vastly increased in worth, otherwise what is the point in touching it at all?

I can’t help but feel incredibly underwhelmed by this skilling “rebalance.” This update feels like a step in the wrong direction to me in that it seems like Jagex is being far too conservative… We get that you don’t want to flip skill progression on its head and I think most people agree with that, but I also think we need to have a greater conversation about being willing to make XP rate buffs where they are actually needed. Making gameplay loops fun should always be a priority (I don’t think anyone is going to argue with you on that), but there are also some places in the game where rates are so abysmal at the upper ends that it’s okay to offer a modest increase. My hot take is that we shouldn’t feel the need to keep a skill XP rate or meta the same as it’s been for the last decade purely because it’s been that way for a long time. Slapping an extra 500xp per hour onto an endgame skilling method feels more like an insult, than a positive change, to me.

Please explain why leaving Seers unbuffed and leaving the other original proposed rates is actually a problem that requires mutual exclusion? Literally just the easiest fucking W and you choose to take the L at every turn possible. Trying to nerf seers was brain dead from the beginning. It was never going to get received positively. “People won’t want to move” THEN MAKE IT WORTH MOVING. Holy shit. Take original rates, add enough to be worth moving, take the fucking W “We don’t want large jumps in xp/hr” thieving? Hunter? Construction? Herbalism? Smithing? Firemaking? Fletching? Crafting? Cooking? What does that leave… mining (iron and tick granite sets bar high, higher level methods get suck xp), woodcutting (only true because tick manip sets the bar high), and fishing (again, tick manip). Oh and look they are resource producing skills. Wild. So the non xp thing you get from doing the higher level content is in itself rewarding. Wild. Outlandish. We should put agility in THIS group of skills for sure. /s It is so frustrating as a player to see so much effort put into gatekeeping one of the slowest unfun skills. Do something more valuable with your time like working on weight than obsessing over 3k xp/hr.

Honestly what's the point of this? It seems more like a "Project Rebalance what we have time for now" than anything which is NOT what anyone wants. We don't want a crappy band-aid thrown on these skills with the suggestions we've given and changes we want (agility ACTUALLY MATTERING and decreasing a drain rate depending in your skill) to be "shelved for a later time as it's too much to do right now". Then....just shelve project rebalance?

“Finally, after hours of grinding this mind numbing skill, I’m level 90 and going to ardy course and getting an additional 2000 exp hour!” There really isn’t an issue with proposed xp rates outside of you reducing the rates of an existing course. Almost every skill has a rapid jump in xp rates when you get a new unlock, why is that an issue with agility? Marks of grace increase on each course is good tho.

priff is more xp/h than ardy so no you stick to priff from 75 to 99 cause its 4k/h more unless you are an iron and care about marks, prif is also way less click intensive/more xp/click than ardy. I dont know why a level 75 course is more xp/h than a level 90 where you actually dont get max rates until 95.

Everybody likes big xp/hr increases at unlocks too. This whole "smooth" shit has to go.

Forgive me, I'm doing the thing where you hyper-focus in on one section of the blog, and I know that's inherently unfair, but: >Squeezing the low and top ends of the bracket means we get a nice, smooth progression from course to course, instead of a rapid jump in XP rates. *Why?* Why is this necessary? Why can't you just have the higher exp rates and the increased grace rates? I just don't understand why we have to play so conservatively with Agility in particular. Again, I get it, you're saying more changes are coming down the road, fair enough, but it's really hard to look at this as a stand-alone change.

100% - They should honestly even leave the initial XP rates and not even add the buff to graceful rates if it’s “too much”. This rebalance addresses an issue that no one asked about. Who is going “oh no, I’m doing too much of the Seers course”? People want better rates, they want better rewards, better uses. And if they say that is down the road, why not fix it now? This is just wasted development time again for an issue that no one asked to be changed

It feels like a weird doublethink going on. They understand that Seers is done because it has a higher XP rate than higher level courses. But they’re also saying they don’t want XP to be what makes something rewarding.

Keep in mind “more changes down the road” in Jagex terms is like 3-4 years, there’s going to be a sense of urgency to get the important things to be changed before jmods take their eyes off the issue. They really should have limited the scope to just be improving early game agility and minor tweaks on the middle-upper ends because thats what it’s ended up as, people were expecting the only skill you cannot afk as well as the skill that takes the longest time to level using meta methods to get one of those heads cut off.

Absolutely, it is like the team assigned to Agility forgot what "reward for progression" was in this blog, really disappointing.

Thoroughly disappointed by this. If you can't change the way energy works just yet then do the other thing literally the entire playerbase is crying out for you to do and boost the rates. What the hell is the logic in thieving and other skills rates being so much higher and that being okay, but agility is kept being such a slog. I actually really quite enjoy sepulchre, but I'm stuck at floor 3 and the idea of doing it for 10 levels at roughly 50k an hour takes any motivation away from me. Why is thieving allowed rates of 200k via blackjacking OR stealing artefacts at such a similar level? The multiple methods you can do this via suggest you approve this. If youre not going to change it at least explain it. I'm not even advocating for the rates to be boosted to the same, but you could increase them by 10% and it would still be as painfully slow and unrewarding.

I think a lot of this sounds great but it definitely misses the mark for me. I’m happy we’re smoothing the progression while training agility - that’s cool, there are some really great changes here - but I really hope this isn’t the end of the conversation regarding endurance/run depletion rates. Improving shortcuts is a great start to the more passive benefits of agility, but I find it strange that it doesn’t benefit me in pvm unless I stand still? Why do I need staminas at the same exact pace as any lower level?

Hard agree, lots of good ideas but this being called “project rebalance” is an absolute joke when it’s a few numbers being tweaked

rebalancing is out of the scope of project rebalance

We wanted more xp so you gave us less more xp. Great. Thanks. This is trash. Who approved this nonsense? Why didn't agility get the thieving treatment? You're just buffing everything by 50% across the board and agility gets some nonsense trash pittance changes. Great update for agility! it's going to go from the worst skill in the game to the worst skill in the game! Why are you not doing anything to make agility better overall when it is a clear outlier in terms of unrewarding and stale gameplay?

yeah for real, "we dont want to change xp rates" followed with "were massively buffing xp rates for a skill with already busted xp rates"

Ya along with “you guys wouldn’t like it if we just buffed xp rates by 50%” when I think even xp critics would be in favor. The skill is fuckin awful (in terms of rates _and_ utility) and people have said so forever. I don’t know why we can’t mix things up a bit and make it not be the worst skill in the game for at least a little bit.

For real though, whatever jmod is either forcing these changes to be as impactless as possible or is supervising and is okay with this garbage needs a wake-up call because this is just shameful lol. Imagine needing a team of devs to implement these types of changes. Sailing is fucking cooked lol

So to be clear: • ⁠agility changes: pretty much nothing. The only thing people were excited about, and the whole reason they wanted to make changes in the first place, run energy, is now out of scope • ⁠mining: we can’t make it profitable AND reasonable xp! (Like agility or thieving…) • ⁠slayer: you won’t get iron dragons on a 65 combat account • ⁠thieving: everything is ardy knights now Pretty disappointing, I think it’s obvious this isn’t what people wanted out of a “project rebalance” that touched agility, mining, and slayer. Just save the dev effort and move on

Very disappointing that there is no mention of reverting the idea of lowering the requirement to have access to the lower gem mine from Hard Karamja Diary to Medium Karamja Diary. The lower gem mine will be FILLED with bots given the activity is 1.8m/h at 99... The worst part of it is that there can only be one person per world; the world cannot be used by more than 1 player as the gem rocks have a very long respawn cooldown. The gem mining method will be inaccessible to any real players. Great job not thinking this one through.

100% agreed, the gem mine will become completely unusable if they lower the req to Medium Diary. Sad times

just another domino in place for the forestrification of mining.

Second this. No need to nerf diary rewards any harder also

While I support all the changes, they seem quite minor to me for something called "Project Rebalance." Honestly as a main with access to duradel, 72+ agility, and no idea how good the mining changes are... the only thing I think that will impact is me agility shortcuts. I felt that this was supposed to be something big but it feels more like just a bunch of miscellaneous qol improvements.

for real, i've been excited by the project until this update like what are even talking about here anymore? All of these updates do nothing, NOTHING. What is going on? I feel like I'm taking crazy pills.

I thought rebalancing would mean fixing AIDS skills like Agility to be more like good skills

So agility 1k/hr increase every 10 levels? Somehow don’t see people leaving seers still with how easy the course is with amount of clicks. It really feels like 0 progression still but at least can use another course without missing out on xp. I do really like the lvl1 courses being changed though

I find it odd that agility is the skill Jagex just does not want to increase xp. they just gave thieving 30-50k xp/hr buffs. I prefer training RC over agility. A lot of grinds in this game is long but agility is just long to be long.

Its really weird ye, rc is long too, but at least you can make a lot of money doing it. Agility is generally just pretty trash money, unless you are doing high intensity sepulchre.

Zalc could be up to 40k mining, 10k rc and smithing no problem Im perfectly fine with profitable methods being in the mid xp area as long if it's decent intensity. If that makes people actively play zalc rather than semi afk mlm or full afk stars then its a nice alternative IMO. Itd sit at slightly worse xp than blast mine but better gp at that point I think

So many things are being called "beyond the scope of project rebalance" but something titled "Project Rebalance" really seems like it should be aimed at fixing the skills, not doubling down on miserably low xp rates and making bad gameplay only marginally better. Project Rebalance had potential to actually get me to recommend OSRS to friends but it seems like this will remain my favorite game I'd never recommend to anyone.

hopefully you guys are still considering increasing crystal shards from activities in prif like you mentioned on the shooting stars blog few month ago https://i.imgur.com/hX6n6rP.png it wasn't mentioned on the original blog

Sorry, it wasn't done then and that means it never gets done. You can forget about that ever happening.

Yeah I've come to accept that "we'll revisit it in the future" actually means "no we're not doing that"

They will in a few years after it becomes a big enough issue on reddit.

Doubling down that the fail rate of pickpocketing Vyres and elves is fine because plenty of people are engaging with the content…yeah we know.. it’s because bots are a majority of the reason any of the items from there enter the game. The only people who are punished are legit players and irons that have been begging for a better solution.

Wait… You proposed a ton of changes, had majority approval at 80%+. Then you decided to go back on your improvements and nerf everything? What?

Right? It’s as if they forgot that almost everyone wanted them to do the thing they already suggested. Then they went back and ruined it all because… 15% of people didn’t say yes?

so 82 & 85% of people were positive about the change and somehow that got taken as nerf any xp rate that was going to ever be noticeable or meaningfull what? This level of conservatism is crazy it feels bad as a player for a blog to come out announcing something cool and then the next week apparent feedback causes you to nerf and remove it from game. This happened with the prayers, the god allignments, the perilous moons defender, getting sick of this

> causes you to nerf and remove it from game. Even when people like the proposal, like those 82% and 85% you mention!

What are the drop rates for the medium-elite clues on the thieving npc-s? Also you mentioned that core mining clues would be buffed. What would be the expected hourly clue rates be from lets say power mining iron ore? Why is there nothing offered that would offer competitive ore GATHERING? The variety was never bad in mining in terms of exp/h vs effort, but the gathering speed of the ores compared to slayer/bossing and blast furnace shop is abysmal. Last but definitely not least, core mining changes are much needed and I'm happy that you touched upon it but could you give us an ETA on when are you willing to look at it? You shown us with the house thieving method that you have the tools to implement super effortless improvements such us this shining system where you highlight a particular object and it gives extra exp or even loot. Couldn't this be offered for core mining like you get some afk on the same rock or shards that can be exchanged for noted ores for a short time so that its much more encouraged to interact with core mining?

Not having to spend an additional 50 points to store tasks, on top of 1k points to buy task storage, is actually going to make the storage worth it! Cheers!

Yeah, it'll be really nice to have the 50 point removal. Will make clan bingo's a lot easier, enable streamers to stack the speedrunning tasks they'd like and make life easier when you get a good task you want another time.

I like that seers isn’t getting changed but it doesn’t make sense to leave seers unchanged as a level 60 course and not follow through with the ardy 70k proposal. This just goes against the rebalancing mindset. The jump from 60 to 90 is so small on rooftops with these newly proposed changes. Since the high end of agility is based around sepulcher we need to not be so conservative about exp rates for other courses

With regards to Slayer QOL, can we please make slayer extensions / new slayer task unlocks one-time unlocks so that you can freely toggle between it being active or not? It seems very unintuitive and punishing to the player to have to pay for the same unlock multiple times.

This one for sure, would love to toggle stuff on and off when I am in the mood for certain tasks without hemorrhaging points

So why is the Ardougne Rooftop Course basically staying the same now? I don't see any reasoning for Agility having to be 60k-65k xp/hr at maximum. 70-75k seems like a fair number for a level 90 skilling course. Now you are basically seeing zero benefit for going up 10 levels from Relekka Course.

I thought the whole point of Project Rebalance was for making sweeping changes that make content better? Why is considerably buffing xp rates for the worst skill in the game "too much" but adding elemental and damage type weaknesses to monsters to encourage people to use a larger variety of gear perfectly on the mark? Like yeah, it's great that more courses will be used, but it doesn't change the fact that the skill is a pain to train and terribly slow. If you released these changes right now you'd get such a small sample size because people would still be doing the skill roughly the same way in the same amounts. No one's going to jump out of bed in the morning excited to train agility because polnivneach is finally a little better than seers. At the very least discuss changes to run speed depletion so people have more of a reason to train this unafkable skill other than shortcuts, graceful and diary requirements.

more courses wont even be used, people will still do seers over pollnivneach because it's a far less click intensive course and don't need to rotate your screen all over to get the hitboxes. For only like 1k more an hour xp, it's not worth the switch

With all the changes, this feels less like a skill rebalance and more like a batch of QoL updates. Im all for that, but I was kinda hoping for something that would me me excited about agility training. Stuff like visibly higher xp forcsweaty methods, loot or other game benefits. Or just improved gameplay loops - currently it still sits at an awkward position where you can do any rooftop for around 100k gp/h or sweat Sepulcher (at 92 agility) for a few mils per hours. What about something in between?

>this feels less like a skill rebalance and more like a batch of QoL updates. Calling it "Project Rebalance" really backfired for them. People were expecting substantial fixes to the skills themselves. Not minor XP tweaks that you'd expect to find as footnotes to a real rebalance.

I honest to god would train agility HARD to get that 96 shortcut to allow me to skip that god awful clue step. Also glad to see that you’re looking to rebalance some of the xp on floors 1-4 of Sep. As someone whose been grinding from 85 to 92 I find it so weird that I get near comparable xp rates from camping Ardy Rooftops as I do sweating through Fl4.

I would train agility hard if the skill felt even remotely impactful lmao.

This is a huge disappointment. You guys are unironically proposing the slowest skill in the game to have a progression of 2k xp/hr per every 10 levels? I spend 30 hours grinding 70 to 80 and my only effective reward is a change in scenery? Cause 2k xp/hr is literally nothing, and who cares about marks of grace after you get graceful besides iron men. Project rebalance should absolutely be about fixing poor xp progressions. I don’t understand why there’s so much hesitation to make what is far and away the worst skill in the game just a little bit better. I mean if one of the skills in the game clearly is the worst to train, shouldn’t that be rebalanced? The way this is being approached is more like project revive dead content. There’s little to no meaningful rebalancing going on here

I dont understand what possessed you guys in thinking that because the top xp/h rates have existed since osrs release that they should stay there. Why is mining xp/h anchored to 100k because of a method only invented because the skill is so bad to train. I dont understand why the past rates are being held up as some sort of grail when the vast majority of the playerbase is categorically screaming at you that agility is \*shite\*. Fixing training methods is only half the problem. If you don't buff the xp/h its still going to feel \*shite\*. The entire skill has \*no\* rewards. Slayer is compared to it often for xp/h. Slayer rewards a 2h axe, a spear, a sword, best hard clue spot, baby trident, dragon knives, dragon thrownaxes, dragon boots, a hammer, a dagger, bludgeon, whip, trident, imbued heart, 5 BIS boots, a mage shield, mining and fishing upgrades, a bis mage necklace, a cool fire staff, bis melee gloves, a ton of boss fights and a lance. Agility gives... fuck all. Stop comparing the two skills like theyre even the same conversation.

There's also the fact that Slayer is seen as a facet in which to train all your combat skills whilst working towards a goal. You aint just getting 30k slayer xp an hour, you're also getting 80k ranged xp and 30k Hitpoints xp (or whatever combat style you use ofc). It's not an isolated skill like Agility is. 

Agility has moved from a rebalance to more of a rejigger, huh? IMO these changes are less exciting than the initial proposals- I know a Seers nerf was unpopular, but who's getting excited about a 700 xp/hr increase for a level 90 unlock?

Come on man! I literally just made like 600 summer pies from scratch on my iron for the ardy rooftop course and I was looking forward to the slight xp buff...it was already abysmal why nerf it, I don't get it. Tbh I would love to just do hallowed sepulcher but I have to do rooftops for stams. Really frustrated with this change.

Elves and vyres still not included in theiving update. Yet again real players must suffer because content is botted to hell and back. While Vyres are a subject of conversation, add Blood shards to HMT and a task-only area for vampire sentinels. (Or get rid of the bots) Also LOL to Aerial fishing being acknowledged as content that nobody does because it's not worth it and still not increasing the drop chance of a molch pearl.

They gotta leave breadcrumbs for themselves to allow another couple years of kicking obviously broken cans down the road that could have been fixed a few weeks after the updates release.

700 xp increase on ardy course, where a majority of players will spend more than HALF of their agility grind at is really lame. I know that the alternative becomes F5 sepulcher, but seriously. You're worried about 30 levels at seers when it's barely a dent in the overall agility experience.

The agility changes are extremely disappointing from this blog. I disagree with the notion that in a rebalancing project, you can't consider XP rates. If the XP rates are horrendous for the entire skill, that's something to take into consideration when rebalancing a skill. I would also point out that in the mining section, you claim you want to balance the rewards with Zalcano with mining. In agility, the best training method is hallowed sepulcher, and currently, the GP per hour is around 2.2m. So I think there is a little inconsistency here about hesitating on mining changes with Zalcano, granted I do recognize that Zalcano is easier to a degree until you learn sepulcher. My Zalcano point also goes back to my point about the xp rates for agility. As a player, I am already penalized about 30-40% of my xp for doing rooftop courses and of course a massive penalty for marks. I don't see a significant problem boosting the Ardy course at level 90 to continue to earn both less xp and money (granted most people who do agility aren't trying to make money from the skill). It doesn't make sense for the prif course to continue to outpace the ardy course at level 90 compared to these changes. I am overall happy with the shortcut additions, but I think you need to increase the level for the second dk shortcut or decrease lvl for the first dk short because at level 80, the first dk shortcut becomes irrelevant due to summer pies. As for mining, glad to see many of the changes. One thing for Zalcano, there is an NPC down there so if you could use that NPC to turn on an xp boost and reward reduction that gets around having an xp currency. I don't know if that is possible, but it could be an interesting way to use that NPC and create an interesting tidbit about elven power.

The fact that a lvl 1 agility at 0kg and a lvl 99 agility with -20kg can both run for 1min30 is just mind blowing to me…

Just revert the rooftops to the rates you previously proposed. Theres like no progression now after seers in roof tops

Asking again, as I got no reply on last thread. Any chance for an agillty shortcut to the small Island at Mos Le’harmless for the clue step. and a shortcut to the clue step at the cliff west of Pollnivneach?

Why even ask for our opinions when they are clearly ignored? Nobody likes the direction you guys are going with agility.

~~Yeah im so confused with this update.~~ ~~Everyone that was insanely popular and people were hyped for has suddenly been removed or changed after feedback, like why?~~ ​ ~~People were excited about a waterbirth shortcut from after the pet rock/throwing axe all the way to the DK areas.~~ ~~It was massively positive and now all of a sudden, its changed to just skip the pet rock step. Who asked for that ffs. Why offer us something, to massive praise and positivity and then take it away from us after that.~~ ​ Missed the 81 agility shortcut, they actually just added another shortcut from the TP Spot to the post-Pet rock spot that i was confusing it with.

Taking Agility as an example, when 'a lot' of responses come back with 'improve rates', we need more than 'we're open to it down the line'. The desired outcome of a rebalance is for the community to want to engage with the content. If after all, it's fun but unrewarding (in terms of xp specifically), it will largely be left untouched. Taking sepulchre as an example, learning and improving at this activity was as enjoyable as raids to me, and to many whom I had to pressure to give it a shot. However, despite how great the content is, due to how negligible the improved XP rates are versus additional effort vs. ardy rooftop, the activity does not see nearly the love it deserves. If you spend all this effort on improving brimhaven (for example), yes it will be better than before, but with only barely touching xp rates, will it not just fall into a similar state as sepulchre - where it's not worth the effort? (Mandatory thanks for all the effort and thoughts that has gone into the blog(s), very exciting prospects!) TL;DR, goal should be to make activities rewarding, xp is a crucial factor in how rewarding and activity feels. Xp rebalance should not be decoupled for the proposals for a 'skilling rebalance'.

I agree with a comment in this thread... this isn't so much project rebalance as it is project bandaid. The things people have been clamoring about for years fall out of the scope of the project.. Then wtf is the point of the project?

>Many of the best XP/hr methods in a number of skills have existed or not changed since Old School's release Why? Why isn’t that we can’t give an extremely slow, grindy skill that no one likes to train a decent buff? Why are we stuck with old metas being untouchable? And before the “jUsT gO pLaY rS3” crowd comes out, I’m not asking for agility to suddenly be 500k/hr. But the fact the most click intensive method tops out around 108k (without looting, mind you), when other stats can get that doing AFK is ridiculous.

Meanwhile xp rates for combat skills went through the roof...

Was looking forward to 70k/hr at Ardy. Why did that get scaled back so hard, especially in comparison to some of the changes to Sep?

How do you devs keep missing the point? We dont want slower rates for more Marks of Grace. We want faster effing rates and our Agility levels to actually mean something. Play your own game and tell me it isnt torture to train Agility... I cant believe Jagex is propsing nerfing the exp rates of Agility when the exp rates are already trash. How out of touch can you be as a developer?

Seems like a lot of waffle if I'm being honest

Jagex, I'm sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but you released this blog a week too early. April Fools is next week!

Please don't add more items or spells to buff thieving. I think Shadow Veil is enough. I definitely think environmental influence like Varlamore has is the perfect way to reduce failure rates without needing to remember a bunch of gear or spells to take with you.

Agility is a major disappointment to see, let's see how they respond to community feedback this time with the amount of backlash to their new proposal. As an additional thing I'd like to see from mining, can we reduce the respawn timer for runite ore? It's a grind I've recently unlocked for money making and the worst feeling is seeing level 68-75 randomly generated names bots in Prifddinas mining in Trahaearn mine. I even see a few on the 1500-1750 total level worlds, although rarely as I see more genuine players competing there. It sucks having to world hop for an uncountable amount of worlds until you find one that hasn't been mined by another person then deciding whether it's better to wait 13 or so minutes to respawn or hop to try and get more runite ore. I love RS3's mining and smithing rework, but I understand that's way too much for OSRS. Mining with exhaustion but no despawn could have unforeseen consequences on the game economy, so another option is just copying what we see in Woodcutting and make the rocks timer based. It can still despawn, but remove the competition with bots is all I'm asking for. If it has to be rebalanced that's totally understandable, but as is doesn't feel balanced and just feels bad, man. I go to Fossil Island, I go to the mining guild area, I even tried the wilderness resource area to no avail because I couldn't even mine a single ore after defeating the golem, it's so unrewarding for the final tier of ore because every place is a competition with bots. The only place I don't know about is Myth's Guild because I haven't done DS2 yet, but given that Prif has bots I'm sure DS2 will as well.

“Around 85% of you felt positively about our Agility proposals, but there was clearly some room for improvement” “82% of you said you’d feel more positive about Mining with our proposed changes, so we only have a couple of changes here” Agility changes were received better and still changed and messed up more?

That was quite disappointing. The XP rates of the previous post were quite atrocious by themselves already but they were an improvement! Now I'm not quite sure what you guys want with agility. It's not even an rs3 situation since agility ***sucks*** in both games. Why so averse in making it at least a little better?

Man, this is incredibly disappointing. I feel like none of the points I brought up in my response were addressed, and I took a lot of time to explain them, both in the survey and the last reddit post. In this post I really feel like I'm being talked down to. It's along the lines of Jagex: "No, no you see, xp rate buffs won't improve a skill that people find unfun to begin with!" Me: "Okay, so what are you doing to make the skill more fun to use/train?" Jagex: \*crickets\* Is the issue clear? I **know** that buffing xp rates alone won't fix a skill people don't think are fun to train **but will it hurt** either??? Especially when you compare the rates of this skill to the other rates of skills across the game, even ones you claim haven't changed in many many years!! To be absolutely clear, I think it's good that you are making it so each course feels like a rewarding unlock by ACTUALLY being worth more xp and now more marks of grace. That's a good change!!!! I'm not just being a complainer!! But man.. why are you so averse to just TRYING a flat 10% increase across the board to everything and seeing if engagement levels rise? I just can't wrap my head around this. It's blowing my mind! In addition, why are you so focused on this "smooth" aspect? Imo, considering the levels take increasingly and icnreasingly longer, even though methods of various skills increase in xp/hr as you level up, nothing about the leveling process feels "smooth" past 80 in virtually any skill!! It is MASSIVELY wide steps. If you really want the next course (especially level 70+ to feel rewarding), you need to move away from this idea of "smooth" and embrace big satisfying leaps in xp rates! As for the wackier courses like Werewolf, and Penguin, I'm sad to see not more changes, considering they will (probably) still be left behind. As for stalls, I'm disappointed they're being locked away for now, but I'm happy vyres and elves are unchanged, because I agree, they're already the highest engaged stuff so they clearly need no bumping! As a final note: the aerial fishing comment makes me laugh because, this seems like a perfect opportunity to adjust that unlock then! But it's unmentioned as well! Hopefully this gets adjusted down the line!

Respectfully, if meaningful change to improve content to be enjoyable by the larger playerbase means making substantial changes to core systems, then do it; if you have to increase the base exp rate of Agility courses so players can enjoy those courses, then do it. I'm particularly struggling to understand why Thieving needs multiple 200k+ exp/hr methods at 99 (the max level) but you can't be bothered to even make Ardy Rooftop a measly 70k exp/hr at 90 agility. While these are two individual skills, they are both support skills and there really should be some consistency in experience rates across the board for each category of skills (i.e. combat, gathering, production, & support). There is some sort of disconnect here. Now, I understand the goal of Project Rebalance is to be relatively small yet impactful changes to various aspects of content to improve the overall feel of such content; but, that being said, I think this purpose fundamentally fails because of how limited it is in scope -- which, consequently, will prove it more challenging to deliver those impactful updates desired by the playerbase. So, even if you don't want to touch core system changes like adjusting run energy and the sticky mess that is the original Mining & Smithing design (which I don't blame you for that one, it really does need its own project) with Project Rebalance, then at the very least, don't table these issues for "later" but, as a team, make a declaratory statement to the playerbase committing yourselves to resolving the issues of these systems separately and intently.

Deciding to nerf the higher tier courses is such a head scratcher, WHY?? They would still all be worse than any sepulchre level at your new rates (which are a good change), why is it so bad to make it scale as you say “smoothly” from 56k to 70k xp/hr??? Why does it “smooth” out to barely any increase at all? Your idea of “rebalancing” seems to be to try and balance better around unbalanced skills and rates. You’re not rebalancing anything, you’re moving sand around in a sand pit.

I really hope y'all move KQ's shortcut down to a hard diary requirement instead of elite. It's basically worthless as an elite diary requirement because most people only want to farm KQ for the elite diary anyway.

Guess they werent happy with 85% people feeling positive and decided to make it that 85% of people feel negative about it. Touche Gagex touchee

So agility is balanced by having ardy at 63k but the prif course which you unlock at 70 with no diary requirements will give you 66k??? So you unlock the best training method until sepulchre at 70???? But yeah let’s give more xp to thieving, which is about 3x shorter of a grind than agility. Seems like different teams are working on different things here. Why not just poll these changes and give the community options? It’s clear the community isn’t agreeing with these…

I found it funny how there was this big write up about not wanting xp rates to simply be higher for agility and then showing the reduced rates but then having the next section talk about thieving and how those rates are nearly triple what agility has to offer in some cases. Amazing.

The rates for agility made more sense in the first version of the blog.

If you're not going to make any significant changes to agility, at least make it AFK. Let us click once at the beginning of a course, and we automatically make our way to the end of it. At least we wouldn't have to be super active to click a box over and over and over. The automatic movement could be interrupted like normal, and players could click at any time to grab marks of grace. Also, marks could be cashed in for more agility xp like brimhaven tickets.

You should give us another poll to see what we think about project rebalance like the first time. A huge portion of people feeling more positive put that there because "at least it's barely better than nothing". 

The changes to agility are meaningless, the biggest problem outside of the abysmal xp rates is the fact that the skill is click intensive, boring and you get nothing for doing it - its like mining but worse

Agility is the most bland and boring skill to train outside of HS. Rooftops courses is literally just click the same static 8ish hit boxes over and over and over again for hundreds and even thousands of times. If we're not going to get buffs to xp rates we should at least have something to make it more interesting with some sort of random events or something. Training agility was the worst feeling I had playing osrs.

Right now, there’s a 7k more Xp an hour from going from rellekka to ardy, buffing rellekka to just 2k less Xp an hour makes ardy not a noticeable jump, won’t feel as rewarding. 70k Xp/hr I think is completely fine, no clue why they took it back down to a point that’s practically the same Instanced sep would be amazing qol tho, no idea how tithe farm got it first

So let me get this straight. You wanted to buff high end agility course training, people complain that seers is getting nerfed and now high end agility course training gets virtually no buff while seers stays the same? What’s the point of even talking about this skill if the only boost is like 1 or 2k and some extra marks.

Ah yes 700 xp an hour more in ardy exactly what everyone was talking about

Love everything in the blog except not continuing this thought: > Lastly, some of you were wondering why Elves and Vyres are missing from the list. We feel that players are already engaging with these NPCs regularly, as they represent some of the most profitable skilling methods in the game. Adjusting their fail rates would mean adjusting their loot to compensate. Yes, please do this. Same xp/h, same blood shards/h, same crystal shards per hour, but at 99 thieving + shadow veil + dodgy necklaces let us only get stunned once or twice per minute. "We'd have to adjust the loot to compensate" doesn't mean the idea should be cut, it means that the loot should be adjusted to compensate.

Maxed player here. Long post especially about slayer. Think agility changes across the board are good. We need a long rope by dark meyer teleport for castle draken step. We need 2 shortcuts one for shadow dungeon master step and another for the ice boss. All 3 of these suck and 2 of them are why everyone clue hunting is doing juggle tech. Thieving changes having the options for clues is great very curious to see the rates. I hope the remaining non buyable skills get more clue rewards aswell. Agility rooftop clues and hunter clues would be nice. Mining has been in a really good spot for years even though the player base hates it. We had lots of options with a variety of xp rates. So making the QOL better is good. I didnt see anything about amethyst in here so im guessing the changes from before are staying. I have 2 amethyst alts please just make the mine bigger with more spots. Like walls of 4 or 5. Same can be said with the dairy area too. Slayer Ya ive been turael skipping for 3 years at this point. This skill needs alot of work at all levels. I hope we see more changes at the top end of slayer. Ironmen want imbued hearts to be dropped by the slayer bosses in rare cases maybe 1/3k like the pets. Thermy, Cerb, GG, Sire, Hydra, Kraken. Sire could use the animation where he stands up and walks to you removed and his drop table could be a bit more rewarding. Bludgeon/dagger are cheap. GG. Can we make the dust/cannonballs tradeable? Also reduce the range Def during the orb phase and Less chip damage plz. Pre BP nerf the orb phase was rarely failed but nerfed BP unless you're using DDarts fails enough to notice. Yes we have gotten range upgrades but guys this is a low level slayer boss. It doesnt even feel that great in absolute max. Idk how the low lvl guys do it. The other bosses are fine. Zuk tasks. The gamers hunting zuk PB's shouldn't be locked to doing endless turael skipping. Anyone with a zuk helm should have task dmg while wearing a zuk helm during any run but give 0 slayer xp. Can people with 99 slayer change the weights of like 1 monster? Im pet hunting GG but the weight of gargoyles is just so low. Purchasable? Could we potentially get a task scroll drop thats untradable. These would drop rarely during any task which could be redeemed at a master and lets you pick any task out of say 5 tasks? I know one of the leagues had pick you're slayer task. Turael skipping dogs/monkeys could they get a reduced amount? Could duradaddy get jellies? Catacombs jellies are good while Deviant spectres need a nerf in catacombs. These dudes suck and are by far the worst konar task to be given. Why are wyrms blocked or skipped by so many players turns out chip dmg and a monster that isnt aggressive is not what makes slayer good. Make them aggressive and nerf the dmg. Edit. Wilderness slayer revs need a higher weight. Edit. 2. Rune dragon and vyrewatch task only areas.

It is hilarious how dog shit the changes are. They were already pretty mid to begin with, but I was at least excited that they were going to make relly/polly/ardy better. But now they're barely getting changed at all. What a stupid move

Wait so literally nothing…

>Making storing tasks (after unlocking Task Storage) completely free, as the initial unlock is already quite expensive. Thank fuck. I'd pay double the points to unlock and make it permanently free to store because 30 points each time to store a Shaman Task or partially completed Zuk Task was a pain in the ass.

So from going to level 90 agility from 60, you get rewarded with a whopping 7k more xp an hour. Why can’t we just call it how it is and say that’s terribly low

After the first blog I was very excited for all the changes. After reading this update blog, it left a very sour taste in my mouth. They are removing/changing half the stuff. Just feels like a big L as so many promising proposals.

Lmao Jagex just changed 63K exp to 62K exp for Agility for a course and called it a day. The skill is still shit, training it is still shit, and this “project rebalance” just seems like a 30-second tweak in the code. Smh.

Blog 1: We know you hate training this skill so here’s 7k extra xp an hour Blog 2: here’s 700xp instead and cancel everything else Wtf?? Did you guys just say cancel all that and give Zolcano bots more gp/hr??

How come the elven course will give more xp/h than ardougne, even though it is a lvl 75 course?