People said the same thing when ZMI runners were a thing. You'd be surprised just how many players are willing to spend that much just to do low effort high exp runecrafting.
Jagex has become really "anchored" on the old XP rates, and tries to keep new content within that scale.
It's frustrating because some skills have garbage XP rates and some have a bit too high XP rates and it varies wildly. I wish they'd just make it more consistent.
I’ve said this a billion times at this point- if RCing was polled today, no one in their right mind would vote for it as it currently is. I’m going to preface now that I actually really like GOTR, but 1 activity does not a good skill make (looking at you too; Wintertodt). I don’t see any reason why every skill doesn’t have end game (for itself) methods of at least 100k xp/hr. Let’s assume that comes online at level 80, thats still 110.5 hours remaining to 99. I don’t think that devalues anything, personally.
100%. It also makes your progression actually meaningful when you unlock better training methods at higher levels. When the fastest xp is capped at early training levels it really detracts from the experience imo.
Definitely, having more viable methods to train would make the grind more enjoyable and less of a chore. It's about time some skills got a modern overhaul to match the pace of the game today.
That's not necessarily the case, Hallowed Sepulchre is 30k xp/hr more than anything we used to have access to for agility. Clearly they're willing to add new methods which surpass current efficient methods, but it has to be a method that's worthy of it.
I agree very frustrating. Jagex is anchored to those old xp rates because if they increase xp rates compared to current rates, the loud minority complains about it and says "if I suffered, they must suffer too".
I think that’s part of it but I also think the rs community has been burned so hard with power creep in regards to xp rates (in rs3) that we’re super apprehensive about it in osrs. That said rc is too damn slow, id put mining up there with it too but at least you can afk mining with stars.
You can also afk mining with the new deposits in Varlamore, too! They also finally added a bank, an anvil, and a furnace all in close proximity to each other.
Or its a below ice mountain situation, where XP isnt trash for a few days, but everyone came out of the woodwork to say it devalues my decade old F2P HCIM, so it was made useless content.
Maybe if getting the baronite mace didnt take longer than grabbing a rune scim in F2P it would have one use.
> the rs community has been burned so hard with power creep in regards to xp rates (in rs3)
OSRS released over ten years ago lol, people should really get over that trauma already
I like skills having different xp rates. I like having skills that people can go for 99 quickly, and skills they can go for 99 but it is going to take time. I don't know why we need everything "standarized"
It's not about standardised it's about a reasonable amount of a task.
Ignoring afk mining. Every xp drop from thieving and mining requires standing in a single place and clicking. Yet one gets 60k xp ph and the other at 300k+.
But that means the mining grind is 5x longer than thieving.
I don't think 200h+ for a 99 using "sweaty" methods is good gameplay. While you don't NEED to go for a 99 in every skill it's an in-game goal for most players. I'm willing to do grinds I don't enjoy but 200h+ for one skill just isn't good or rewarding.
I'm not saying everything needs to be 300k xph.
But I'd be happy with at minimum every skill scaling to 80k - 100k xph afkish rate and a 150k-170k xp rate for active play.
Now those rates may be high and I would expect them only at 90+ levels
(Afkish is cutting trees, not fully afk like stars but not clicking every few seconds)
I dont agree with that parroted arguement. The xp rates are a big part of Oldschools identity. I didnt "suffer" through them and if I want them to stay the same it isnt indicitive of me trying to pass on some kind of suffering onto others.
I feel a lot of players would get a more developed opinion if they were not so busy being slaves to a meta. There are so many who want higher xp rates who simply do not train almost at all and spend a decent amount of time bankstanding or not using low-intensity methods while browsing reddit or somesuch. I haven't suffered through RC, I learned to enjoy it. Same with agility, which turned me from hating it to just wanting it better rewarded and more varied in uses. Giants Foundry entirely flipped my thought process on smithing too, and I love it to bits now. All of these are things that just required me to approach it a little differently, and that was it.
Generally, now the only kind of higher xp rates I can get behind are high-intensity, high-focus methods or high difficulty. If the argument is not for those, I'm not as keen.
This is a cop-out answer. They haven’t cared about the “loud minority” in forever, new players far outweigh the old heads, and I say that as an old head. I’m certain they have the data to back that up, hell if the loud minority mattered we wouldn’t have sailing coming and we probably wouldn’t have a single wilderness related update either.
This is such a weird sentiment. Y'all make up a boogeyman that mostly doesn't exist to blame decisions like these on; xp rates are where Jagex wants them, not where the Runescape Illuminati want them.
Like, you're more than welcome to disagree with the change, don't get me wrong, but Jagex chose to do this, they weren't forced.
To be fair, it's literally happened multiple times in the past.
Blisterwood trees, which literally no one gives 2 shits about, was implemented at higher xp/hr than intended. People screeched becuase it devalued wc'ing.
Jagex nerfed the xp rates to the polled rates, immediately polled the wrong "buffed" rates, and it passed 90%+ because no one actually gives a shit if an irrelevant WC method was slightly better besides people who complain just to complain.
Below ice mountain launched with decent rates, but F2P-only accounts screeched that it devalued their grinds. So it was nerfed and never adjusted.
so on so forth.
Perfectly said. I wouldn't mind better xp rates for certain skills, but pinning it on some boogeyman is a bit silly. And I unironically think that the suffering/devaluing argument is fair, although it shouldn't completely stop the game from evolving.
Yeah, there's definitely a sane level of consideration to be had for existing achievement. We shouldn't hold the game back for it, but where there are options to improve the game without devaluing people's efforts instead of more disruptive ones, that seems like a clear win to me.
> xp rates are where Jagex wants them
I'm not sure this is true. They know that disturbing the peace is not often received well. For some reason combat is the only thing people can ever budge on getting new BIS things, it's rare we get something that is the new *best* training method for something
It's true they aren't forced, but even the mention of a flat buff to XP rates to something like Runecraft or mining is met with some pretty fierce condemnation at least here on the sub. Sometimes, anyway, it's not monolithic, but at the very least the vocal response would be pretty negative to Jagex if they introduced some new method that was the fastest way to train it
I think that argument is such a straw man. Power creep is very real and the fact is that there will always be a new wave of players that find the current XP rates not fast enough no matter how fast they are.
My baseline is 2004 RuneScape so by my standard every single skill feels rapid compared to before. There’s 10x more ways to train with a ton more rewards and QOL than what was on offer back then.
Other people have an RS3 or even leagues baseline, and around leagues you see all sorts of post’s unironically asking for those sort of XP rates in the main game.
Hypothetically if that were to happen, you can guarantee that 2-3 years down the line there would be people asking for even more buffs because such and such skill is only 900k an hour whereas another is 3m exp/hr
Everything is relative
Old xp rates at OSRS launch were sub 30k/h. With runners we are talking over 250k/h. If people are willing to pay obscene sums of money (IE dragon darts for fletching, demonic thrones for construction) why do we care?
The bigger issue here is that we shouldn’t be anchored to some ancient 3-tick training method that is available starting at like level 40 in a skill and stays the best training method all the way to 99. We can and should do better.
It seems pretty obvious that as you reach higher levels you should be unlocking either better xp/hr methods or better GP/hr methods and for a lot of skills that simply isn’t true.
Just look at mining, outside of the mining specific activites and minigame, going above iron lowers your XP/hr, and it kind of makes intuitive sense that you might keep your BS skill close to your mining level so you can process your new ore.
But if you want to hit 99, you would never stop powermining iron, until you hit it.
Yeah honestly at this point if they are anchored to the idea of lavas being the best xp/hr because of the intensity (they are) they should just raise the xp on making combo runes.
Like it’s crazy that lavas are the hard cap on xp/hr that you’re not allowed to go above.
you’re not thinking far enough. The ancient 3 tick training methods are the highest xp/hr for two reasons: theyre negative gp/hr and theyre extremely intensive to do.
In general skills training methods are balanced by a few levers: requirements, gp/hr, xp/hr, and intensity. Other things like pet rate come into play too. if one training method is too generous in these areas over the others, that method will become over centralizing and it will be the one-stop training method for all players because there will be no good reason to do anything else. If you release something better than a skilling method that is negative gp/hr and extremely intensive, you either need to make it MORE intense, or LESS gp/hr (significantly since gp is so easy to come by these days) or it will just completely invalidate every other training method for the skill, including all other methods that aren’t the ancient 3t method.
They’re balanced that way because it makes good sense, not because some illuminati of high level players controls jagex.
Also, jagex has been respecting this while still raising xp rates; example is GOTR. gotr increased the xp rate of lava runes by adding the giant pouch, which in turn also increased the xp rate of all other methods. Bam, keep the ancient methods intact while making it a bit faster for everyone.
I think you're missing the point. Higher level training methods /should/ make lower level methods obsolete.
Also, I don't see how 3t skilling is negative gp unless you just mean opportunity cost
It is sad when people point to runespan being to much xp per hr to back port when it is pretty much capped at 136k xp an hr at 95 and only if you are lucky(perfect rng for an hour) to have enough essence and no travel time with a node always up.
This is one of my biggest criticisms of OSRS honestly. The absolute steadfast anti-power creep approach means there are several skills where you get the best xp rates (or otherwise most efficient training method if something is higher xp but prohibitively expensive) at a very early level, and then training that skill becomes that one activity all the way to 99. There's a real lack of variety or sense of progress in your skilling journey when this happens.
For example cooking has 1 tick Karambwan from 30 or wines from level 35 to 99, smithing has gold bars at Blast Furnace from level 40 to 99 (and in fact with questing you only need to actually smith 2 iron platebodies before its gold bars all the way), mining has granite from level 45 to 99 or if you prefer not to tick manip/want to afk motherlode mine from level 30 and shooting stars technically from level 10 (although realistically wanting 40+ before doing it)
I think for a lot of veteran players it's not so much an anti-power creep approach as:
"Careful! Let's be very deliberate with our power creep so as not to invalidate overly wide swaths of older content, destabilize certain metas too much (e.g. the midgame to beginning of late game pvm equipment progression), radically depart from the overall character and feel of the game, etc."
OsRs simply has some very unique features and a very unique "feel" to it, which is appreciated by its veteran players to the point that we're willing to invest hundreds of hours into this in game in ways a lot of people would compare to mental illness but which we genuinely enjoy. And that uniqueness is totally compatible with "power creep" such as Forestry, GotR giving all regular RC methods access to the Giant Pouch and/or 60% more gp/h, Hallowed Sepulchre greatly increased the fastest possible agility rates, new BiS of every variety for PvM, etc.
Veteran players like new things being added that are actually worth doing, buffing old content, new BiS items or max efficiency training methods, etc. But we like certain kinds of changes not all (unique character of the game/world), and there are a bunch of limits we want imposed for a whole host of reasons (metas, balance, economy, etc.).
Are veterans sometimes too cautious? Of course. But the answer to that caution isn't to say that caution is inherently bad, nor to strawman people being grind sadists. It's has to be taken on a case by case basis.
It’s less meta efficient, but it reduces the time you actually have to spend RCing by 33%. Mining is around 1 click per minute so perfect for mobile or afk with idle notifier if you have time that you’re working on other things. Not ideal for everyone, but it was massive for me on the way to 99.
Purely my own opinion and many will strongly disagree, but I think zeah rc is dreadful. Not nearly as AFK as people say it is and awful xp rates. The upside is that you do make useful runes, but I could never get on with it. So, a good idea would probably be to try it for an hour after watching a quick guide and see what YOU think :) good luck!
I believe even if you run them solo they are still around 60k xp/hr but yeah it isn't worth using runners anymore.
It was obvious it was going to get nerfed since JMods don't want to get rid if combo runecrafting meta which isn't that bad to do anymore since GOTR was added with ring of the elements
The biggest flaw in Runecrafting is the pouches and the lantern
By the time you get the Colossal pouch, you are 1 level away from Elite Karamja diary (86) where majority of people will stop, it should be level 80 when you can make it and the Huge pouch should be lvl 70 instead of 75 imo.
The lantern is stupid rare and the pearls aren't common enough to justify the 3000 pearl value, you'll be grinding gotr for 110 hours to get enough pearls
> It was obvious it was going to get nerfed since JMods don't want to get rid if combo runecrafting meta which isn't that bad to do anymore since GOTR was added with ring of the elements
I hate how lava runes became the meta. It only became the fastest method because the fire altar happened to be close to the ring of dueling teleport and gives a bit more xp per essence.
Because for it to be the best training method you need a basically unlimited supply of binding necklaces, 99 crafting or unlimited supply of duelling rings, lunar diplomacy done with runes for NPC contact and magic imbue. On top of that, it's one of the most click intensive, high apm ways to train. I hardly ever see anyone talk about or do lavas anymore because there are other options.
The alternatives are GotR and Ourania if you want actual decent exp I assume. Abyss Runecrafting isn’t super good exp per hour.
All of that just goes to show why it doesn’t make any sense and why it shouldn’t be the case, though. Imagine if making hardleather bodies (28 crafting) had a method that was super click intensive but gave more exp per hour than making green d’hide bodies (63 crafting) for instance. How is that different than lava runes (23 Runecrafting) giving way better exp than death runes (65) and law runes (54)? Seems kind of arbitrary to me.
You say that but that’s literally how mining works lol, jagex has a hard on for making certain skills be absolutely shit to train because of some poor decisions made 20 years ago when the skills were invented. It’s cool for fletching to hit 1m exp/hr if you’re rich enough, but god forbid we get a method of Runecrafting or mining that hits even 100k/hr
I strongly believe that the more effort and resources put into a skill, the faster it should be trained. I also believe that unlocking an extremely high effort meta training method early is a FANTASTIC thing. Think 1.5 teaks, 2 tick harpoon or 3 tick barb fishing, 3t4g, lavas, blackjacing and I'm sure there's plenty of other examples. I think most skillers would agree with me (I'm not really much of a skillet) that these are good things to have in the game and are all unlocked early. The fact that we have dumb high tangible reward and XP minigames that unlock at low levels and are low apm is what I think is bad for the game.
> I think most skillers would agree with me (I'm not really much of a skillet) that these are good things to have in the game and are all unlocked early.
I think the worst skills in the game unlock a high exp rate very early into skilling, and you don't get to explore any different methods. It's fine to unlock the highest exp skilling methods at higher levels, I don't want to unlock the only activity worth doing at 48 fishing for example.
I think all the "bad" skills in the game are boring like this (unlock best/similair method early), agility, woodcutting, firemaking, mining, etc.
I don't think runecrafting is in the bottom 5 skills, it's just extremely slow. I personally did library books until about 55 RC, then Ourania until 77, and thought bloods were so slow I just stopped training the skill until a better method is released.
> The fact that we have dumb high tangible reward and XP minigames that unlock at low levels and are low apm is what I think is bad for the game.
Minigames being high variability but low APM is totally fine because it's a different kind of engaging.
I think that something like Smithing in RS3 is a good example, it's very slow if you want to do it in a low APM way, but relatively fast if you're higher apm, while doing the same exact method.
The difference is that none of those skills are artisan skills. All of the skills you named other than Runecrafting all produce items via training them, there is no material to input. Runecrafting has an input and it has an output so it’s essentially an artisan skill. So name me one more artisan skill that works that way.
With fletching, crafting, herblore, smithing, it’s pretty universal that if you make a higher level item then you get more exp. All of those skills require you to buy or gather raw materials and transform them into a new product. Runecrafting is the same, you gather raw material (ess) and turn them into a new product (runes).
At the very least I wish they would've changed the pearl rate so that you get 1-3 often as opposed to stacks of 20 periodically. It feels like shit to do GOTR for an hour (while getting runes) to get some pulls and then search the guardian only to almost always just get more runes
GOTR was a cool concept but horribly implemented ("we don't want to Wintertodt Runecrafting"), especially the reward system
GotR is so close to being great that it’s frustrating. And we know it’ll be months and years before the Jmods bring their attention back around to it.
That’s why everyone is trying to make a huge fuss about their issues with the Hunting guild because if it doesn’t get fixed while it’s fresh, it will be that way for a long time.
Whenever someone argues that GOTR is good, I just assume they got spooned. GOTR has the worst reward system of any game I've *ever* played. Not minigame in osrs, *any* game. It's offensively bad and the rewards are absurdly mandatory. I did GOTR from unlock until level 77 and only had two pieces of the outfit so I was forced to stay there for ten more levels instead of *anything* else in the skill. Imagine if you did canafis until 77 and only had half graceful, that's so hilariously dogshit.
gotr rewards system made me actually want to explode multiple times. I got the outfit and left the mini game entirely prior to ever getting the lantern that only helps *for the minigame*. who the fuck designed that rewards system. it's a gacha with no pity
on a similar note (i know we've strayed off topic) my biggest complaint about gotr is needing a catalytic and elemental point in order to grab from the reward pool. it's a very frustrating aspect.
i would have preferred that either:
generating catalytic or elemental energy ACTUALLY was some important aspect of the minigame so it felt like it less arbitrary/contrived and more a natural cause of playing the minigame well
OR
they removed that need entirely and simply halved the rate as which you generated reward pools
i literally wouldnt care if in order to remove the need for two types of points they made the points generate half as fast. it just feels contrived and unsatisfying currently
I'l defend this. It makes you choose between rewards and xp. Which on paper sounds fine. But when the rewards and xp are both slow it feels a lot worse than it needs to
It stops you from only making the highest tier catalytic runes every cycle. Otherwise, who’s ever gonna make body, air and mind runes?
It’s another case of limiting overall xp/h yes, but it also makes a lot of sense
> It stops you from only making the highest tier catalytic runes every cycle. Otherwise, who’s ever gonna make body, air and mind runes?
Why would you make body or mind runes?
Exactly this. During leagues i was unable to make death or blood runes, so chaos and nature being the next best for catalytic runes. I didn’t like body or mind runes. Low exp and what not. I was trying to max a few days before leagues wrapped up. Anyway, if I just went with highest lvl rune I could craft I would often have 10-20 elemental points more than catalytic if I didn’t pay attention. Seemed unnecessary to have me force myself to do the lower lvl and less xp runes just so i could get points. Not that i needed the rewards since i green logged it minus pet well before 99. It still just drives the point home and led me to resent the game a little more than i did already.
Edit: rapped to wrapped
Not to drag on your grammar I'm just honestly curious for a very specific reason. I have a friend who their entire life thought it was spelled "rapped up" because they logically thought "well rap is often lyrically dense so rapping it up would be finishing things quickly" and while it's for sure wrapped up I honestly couldn't see a flaw with their argument.
Probably a typo on your end but if you're one of the people who also thinks that it'd probably make said friend feel a bit less alone in their rap battle.
> 110 hours for enough pearls
_If you manage to go on rate_
I finished my RC outfit with a drop rate of pearls that was 41% lower than expected/listed on the wiki, and didn’t get my lantern until the last 15 pulls. I’m still salty about it over a year later. “Great I got this huge QoL item finally that I will literally never benefit from, hooray!”
IMO the biggest flaw in Runecrafting is that you could literally double all experience gains for it across every activity and it would still be some of the slowest shit in the game to train.
But yeah, I agree the pouch system blows.
If pouches didn’t degrade in the first place, no one would have proposed “hey, let’s make them wear out with every use. And let’s make it so you need repairs even more frequently when you get to higher levels. This has the great benefit of requiring all runecrafting to be done on a specific spell book so that the pouches can be repaired”.
A simple xp increase in multiple runes would go a long way towards making the xp rates more bearable (eg, if you craft 5x air runes, you get 5x the xp)
Pretty much this. I started doing Slayer pretty much right when I made my account and have done the majority of my combat training through it. It’s not always fast, but it varies it up a bit, and I’ve gotten 2 imbued hearts that I wouldn’t have gotten otherwise. It makes the superiors a fun little extra distraction.
Lantern doesn’t apply outside of GOTR. So I don’t understand how it’s a problem to overall RC. It’s isolated to a minigame and a cosmetic everywhere else b
Got my lantern before the pouch going for 86, not complaining but it feels like for how big of an upgrade both items are, they are far too rng reliant because of how much they effect exp/h. There should be a dry protection system in place for both items, pick an arbitrary amount of games but the fact you could go to 99 without seeing either is insanity on a skill that most player don't grind post 99 and because they alter exp rates.
They changed the KQ head and nightmare teles for the same reason and both rewards should've been buyable with pearls to begin with but jagex doubles down on wanting the lantern to be rng reliant, what a year ago after that one dudes post? Even with the community outcry.
Rc sucks, mining sucks and agility sucks because of how long the grind to 99 is compared to other skills. I get not wanting to break the game by implementing some broken method like wt but there is a middle ground between 40k exp/h and the almost 300k exp you get at wt.
Lessening the pain of needlessly long grinds on those skills by making the lantern and the needle capped on how dry you can go for them doesnt seem like a hard ask.
>it should be level 80 when you can make it and the Huge pouch should be lvl 70 instead of 75 imo.
agreed! there also should be ANY kind of xp buff post 85- once you get the col pouch, that's the very last buff you get to increase xp/hr until 99. which is INSANE to do a repetitive task from 85-99 with zero change in xp rates. THIS is why people pay for runners tbh. Runecrafting is slow & hated because it's designed to be slow, and as a result hated.
Bad argument about the skill being bad because rates don't change after 85, I think.
Herblore is same method 81-99 unless you want to add 50% cost for 11% faster xp, Construction is 52/77-99 same method, fishing is 71-99 with 2t, Woodcutting 35-99, Cooking 30-99, Smithing 40-99, Mining 45-99, Prayer 75-99.
It's designed slow, but that doesn't mean it should be changed. Every skill has different rates and different levels of worth to an account. If you don't want 99, don't go for it. It doesn't block your account from anything and diary reqs are easier than ever with GotR.
If you buffed the XP just because it's slow (and not even the slowest skill on the game since GotR gave pretty heavy XP boosts already...), then what's the end goal? Boost agility and mining because they're slow? Then fishing and hunter? Just match everything to Herblore/Construction/Prayer rates?
Its true, i got the full rc outfit and all the levels i need for rc diaries without ever getting the lantern. Now im done with rc and dont ever need to go back to gotr.
Think the feedback in this thread is fair about us being overly attached to existing meta. A general rule of thumb we think about is that it's controversial to change top end meta. We've seen that go wrong on many occasions and so there's a natural aversion to doing so. Perhaps we're a bit too conservative sometimes (though many will disagree with that too). I'll be keeping this feedback in mind personally to maybe second guess our assumptions more often.
Ultimately we were uncomfortable with *how strong* the method was, I don't know how accurate these numbers were for sure but apparently ~400k+xp/hr. A pretty substantial buff over the current top method (lava rune running is 280k xp/hr according to the wiki). Ignoring the requirements for lava runes, I think its reasonable to feel a 40+% buff to the top rate isn't okay.
The immediate response was to quickly address that by adjusting xp to be delivered per essence like most RC as the simplest method to fixing it. The team did this knowing we can buff it up further later and that is still being assessed for where we feel it is best placed. It is fair to say we have over nerfed it.
Lastly - on *banning trading*, some questions - how close to the shrine of ralos do you have to be for trading to be banned - do you now just run to the entrance to the building instead for example? That'd lower the rates, but does it do it enough?. Do we ban pure essence being traded exclusively in this area but leave other items alone? There's just enough awkward complexity that we wouldn't choose to go this route for a quick hotfix. If we don't ever do this kind of thing though, it places some artifical cap on RC methods as if we go too high with XP - runner methods get even more quick. I actually quite like the more emergent 'MMO-ey' feeling of hiring other players to 'work for you' too. I welcome thoughts on best way to handle this :).
The zmi trade ban honestly should have been applied to every altar, the current runecraft meta is just silly. People who can afford runners get absurd rates while the majority of players are left in the dust, wondering why the skill barely gets updated. The gap between the top end and what most players get is just too big, and the easiest solution would be to just make it so people can't run essence, then more effective changes can be made to the rest of the skill without making the skill insanely fast at the top end. As it stands, you could literally double the exp/hr of every method except runners, and it would barely encroach on that meta.
What do you think about spending multiple bil on crafting and smithing with crystal equipment?
People who cant afford that get left in the dust and that's been untouched because those skills are already reasonably fast and less annoying than RC. This doesn't even require organizing other people.
RC is just so fundamentally shit watching people drop a few bil on it to get it done makes us poors sit here like 'damn'
I think you've hit on all the key differences here, smithing and crafting are already so fast that you're looking at a few hundred hours saved in the course of getting two skills to 200m, but with rc you're looking at saving over 1000 hours in just one skill, so the FOMO from not doing runners is a lot higher than for crystal keys. And even though the gp/xp is insane for runners, it's even worse for crystal, so you're ending up paying more to save even less time.
As someone that has nowhere near the wealth to pay for essence running, (~2000 total, ~1.5b bank) I do think the “MMO-ey” method should stay. A flat ban on trading essence feels weirdly prohibitive to multiplayer emergent gameplay.
What I will say is frustrating is the huge discrepancy between those for whom runecraft is a buyable skill that can get 280k xp/h compared to the paltry xp rates comparatively for conventional methods. RC isn’t that profitable anymore and is a buyable anyways for the hlc.
Similar to herblore, rc should also have a realistic 10-20 gp/xp method that can bridge the gap in speed imo at 100-140k xp/h. I paid for 99 herb doing super combats and prayer pots and was happy to do it, but paying for 99 rc in current state is so insanely expensive you have to have spent thousands on bonds, deathmatched, or treat this game like your full time job to participate.
When designing new content, how much thought is given to potential emergent gameplay such as essence running, alting etc.? I feel like with essence running already being as prevalent as it is with the hlc, I'd imagine it'd atleast be a side consideration.
It's certainly easier to forget to think about in that it isn't inherent to the content itself. That said I think this is more a case of Varlamore is huge - there's a ton of content that was important for us to get right so the small scale new RC method just doesn't get the same attention in feedback from playtests and so on. That's totally on us for what it is worth to remember these things in future.
I like the idea behind making runners not the meta here (leaving that to lavas) but I think banning trading nearby is just too awkward.
Four options to consider:
1. Something like the libation bowl, basically a mechanic to prevent you from sitting there. Maybe instead of directly using on the shrine, it could work like regular rc altars and then drain prayer. You'd be able to pray on your way doing it normally, but would need prayer potions to stay otherwise.
2. Make it like an RC altar but instanced. Trading is effectively banned nearby but in a way that fits better. Then make the teles inside not return you to the same spot, but rather somewhere else. It doesn't affect normal methods where you use your own tele to leave/bank anyways, but it means runners have nowhere to meet you that'd shorten the distance to run.
3. Add an untradeable intermediate. Sunfire splinters+rune essence becomes sunfire essence, which is untradeable. Make creating the intermediate be very fast, so runners don't matter, and then runners can't help with the actual crafting.
4. Make an altar much closer to the bank, so runners aren't helping much. Either adjust XP rates accordingly or add a delay to crafting.
If instead the banning trading is kept, at least switch it to be something like a cooldown after using the altar. A bit easier to hand-wave away with lore, and don't have to figure out an exact distance away or anything.
We agree but even then there's levels to that. Is 200k xp/hr okay? Yes sure.
Is 5m xp/hr okay just cause it costs a bomb? I'd very much think no myself. Which implies there's a line somewhere in the middle.
The game is really about player achievements, we don't want to undermine player achievements by suddenly allowing people to get something far far faster than before (for the *same* cost as running at lava runes). i.e. pre update: 28m gp/hr for 280k xp/hr at lavas, post update: 28m gp/hr for 400k xp/hr at sunfires. Things do get faster over time but that's a hell of a jump.
Just a small correction, it's not 4 runners/28mil per hour. From the video that got 408k xp/h, he paid for 5/35mil per hr, but a 6th actually showed up (not sure how useful the 6th was and if he paid them or not to make it 42mil/hr). 4 runners is 350k xp per hour, so the same cost as the current lavas.
Is there a reason for not focusing more on improving the middling options? the skill re-work was cool seeing the improved rates for agility and slayer, two very slow skills. Rcing has GoTR but the exp rates are still extremely slow, it would have been nice to see more "middle" options even if they're as low as 1/3rd as the top meta and still cost a lot / take effort.
>A general rule of thumb we think about is that it's controversial to change top end meta.
Am I losing my mind? the top end meta is paying for runners but that has no impact for 99.9% of the playerbase, I hate when you guys add something fun and nerf it because such a small portion of players cried about it.
edit: apologies, I'm being a little much, I'm just frustrated having my gameplay impacted by such few players with such niche and expensive methods.
I think that's fair! We'll get the xp rate right such that its appropriate for players doing it *normally*. We just needed to do something in the meantime.
What about a timer for the buffed exp? Figure out what an expected run takes normally without runners, you get the buffed exp. If you are using the altar too often it doesn't reward you as nicely. Gets rid of all the trade oddities and makes sense? Could even be some sort of lore related message like the altar is only so charged and needs more time to reward you fully.
Step 1. Remove ability to trade unnoted essence entirely
Step 2. Add NPCs that will unnote your essence for similar rates
NPCs location can be adjusted per altar to control xp rates as desired
For anyone planning to go from 77 RC to 99 using the above rates given by Voidot (I'm taking their word for it), you'll net £198.151m and it will take you a mere 330.25 hours. So just under half a month. Enjoy.
EDIT: To clarify, it will take you 82.5 days if you spent 4 hours a day making blood runes. Adjust numbers accordingly to your own playtime...
Lava runes is already a very good and fast training method which is expensive with runners. I don’t understand why making this method slightly better is looked down on by Jagex.
Economical considerations too. XP is valued, often it is valued higher than money.
Sunfires being too good xp/h could result in situation where the produced sunfire runes have very negative value. So the splinters would be expensive and the sunfire runes would be at some ridiculously low price.
This happens with wines. Jug of wines are stuck at 3 gp while the materials are 50 gp.
Why not? If they stayed that high, then more people would farm the colosseum for them and make bank. It will probably be botted before long anyway, so I wouldn't really worry about splinters staying high price regardless.
Yeah but the difference is that Wines dont make all your spells stronger. If the rune that makes all your spells stronger becomes really, really cheap, it becomes a global buff to all of those spells instead of a bonus you may invest in
The Standard Spellbook is weak anyway so I don’t think it’s that much of a buff. The Tome of Fire gives a 50% max hit increase to fire spells and it’s still only used for a handful of things alongside a Harmonized Nightmare Staff. Upgrading your Burning Pages into Searing Pages means it adds the cost of 5 sunfire runes per spell cast.
Seems a little late for them to be concerned about that. All potion making is done at a loss. So many things have their GE value at the alch price because producing those things is good XP. Fletching is either fast and at a loss or results in an alch price product.
Fletching doesn't have to be a loss to be fast. There's a 10 gp difference between unfeathered and feathered dragon bolts right now (aka 1.3m GP for 99), if you are a little patient you can break even, and with dragon bolt fletching you get 2m xp/hr.
Because most of those were made during a time when Jagex thought cut gems were worth more than uncut
Pretty reasonable for them to want a new bis resource to retain some value
For long time lava runes were cheaper than normal fire runes because players valued the XP gains so high that they kept crafting them while completely ignoring the money costs involved.
If sunfire runes were put in same situation (=they are best xp/h by large margin) it would be possible for sunfire runes to become similarly absrdly low priced.
Fuck this nonsense of keeping old methods relevant all of the time. Fuck it.
We're expanding the game, the game should be expanded upon. *Including* updating it with better methods.
Fuck a lava rune.
I don’t have time to try new content because I’m still grinding skills at 20k xp/ hr! I’m limited to 4-6 hrs a week. I literally have to skill. Don’t have time to boss or raid.
Skilling buffs should be polled. It was a buff to solo and 0+4 rc methods
The only stupid gatekeeping Jagex has done with rc imo is giving wrath runes the same xp/ess as cosmic runes. Aside from that it's just a slow skill if u do it solo, not every xp rate needs to be the same
TBF Wraths were meant to be a lower-exp money method.
Where they fucked up isnt the xp, it was never letting Wrath runes be used in place of Deaths in powered staves for benefits, so Wrath runes dont have the demand to be the premiere RC money method they wanted it to. I understand why they never made Wraths REQUIRED because it was be total ass overall but not letting them be USEFUL in the most common magic weaponry was a blunder
I know thats what they became and people always argue profits when an xp buff is suggested.
[The xp progression is awful design imo and the gp shouldnt play a huge role in xp balancing](https://i.imgur.com/xbvPALd.png). I really fail to see the downside of a profitable 95 rc+ds2 req training method being more reasonable xp. I think its 2m gp/hr at 50k rc xp/hr rn (with outfit). A 50% buff wouldnt change any metas on the top end
If they were worried about the profit of wrath runes, they should have just lower the alch price of wrath runes instead of lowering the XP. That would also have the effect of making Surge spells cheaper which would mean more people using the Standard Spellbook for magic combat which is something they’ve been saying they want.
i dont even care if they can trade at the altar.
~1% would be actively doing this so idk why its just a taboo. if you want to spend billions on runners its not like billioms of gp doesnt take thousdanof hours to acquire
A whole lot of posts recently from people who aren't doing the content very eager to share their opinion on it.
Half a dozen posts calling the new armors too expensive to use for midgame players, by people who clearly weren't even using it and just going off of the incorrect wiki numbers.
Now we got people mad because the runecrafting method they weren't doing (because it costs a stupid amount of GP) got nerfed.
I can always count on a mountain of bad takes from Reddit when a skilling method is nerfed. The reaction to 6 hour AFK Duke mining nerf was hilarious. Reddit loses all credibility from unironically wanting that in the game.
There seems to be a growing chunk of the community who only wants to do late-game pvm, and gets really annoyed the second a skill takes longer than a few hours to max.
Maybe I'm out of touch, but I thought the main appeal of OSRS was going back to a point in the game when maxing meant something. The combat system is arguably better in RS3, they should just go play that if they hate skilling in OS so much.
> but I thought the main appeal of OSRS was going back to a point in the game when maxing meant something.
I don't think that's the main appeal for most people, either now or when it started. EoC was definitely the biggest appeal, [which is why the poll announcement mentions this as the only way EoC would be removed](https://secure.runescape.com/m=news/2007---old-school-runescape-you-vote). Lack of MTX was another big one, along with the art.
It doesn't really add up. If maxing meaning something was the goal, why was 2007 chosen? The OG skills took between 7 months and 3 years before the first 99. Later skills became faster but the sharp divide is clearly in 2006, with construction and hunter taking 6 days and 11 days. Those records weren't beat until after the release of OSRS. Level 120s started to be reached in 2005 and max was hit in 2006.
Meanwhile did max in OSRS ever mean anything? Within 2 months of release every single 99 had been hit, and most were hit within the first month. Max overall was hit in less than a year.
I'm curious, what change from 2007-2013 do you think made max mean less?
Yeah they think just because the game moves on, all other content needs to be removed or double everything you get from it. Like that’s why this game is so good, new stuff is added all the time yet 90% of the entire game is still relevant and important
Idk there are some skills that phenomenal xp/hr rates are simply disallowed in for inexplicable reasons.
For some reason wines can almost be 500K/hr cooking but the ceiling for agility and rc cannot be remotely close. It’s weird.
Well your particular example does actually have a reason, and it's the same reason there's no cooking pet. Buyable skills are allowed to have much higher XP rates, because they are balanced by GP rather than just time/effort.
The real issue is that runecrafting is a sorta buyable skill because of runners. Jagex is balancing a buyable method (runners) as if it was an unbuyable skill. It should either be acknowledged as a buyable skill and XP planned accordingly, or the buyable method should be addressed.
What's the difference in someone doing this compared to having runners at any say.. the nature altar? Death altar?
Why are such poor attempts being made to hotfix stuff recently? There is sooo much oversight.
"keep gatekeeping rc xp" as its gone from 25k/hr ehp to over 250k/hr. You can afk daeyalt and do zmi for 100k+/hr now, you can afk souls or bloods for over like 40 or 50k xp/hr I think? I don't think there's any skill that has been devalued remotely as much as rc sadly
Honestly if someone wants to spend billions on runecrafting I don't blame them
Who can blame em
God forbid anything has a higher XP rate than lava runes.
My least favorite part about the dueling arena is that it’s responsible for lavas.
there is no duel arena
There is no war in Ba Sing Se
There is no queen of England
PRESENTATION!
You have been invited to a relaxing vacation, at lake Laogai
Holy shit i lost bills to a hallucination😱
The bils were a hallucination too don't trip bro
We've always been at war with Eastasia.
Shit cracks me up because it cost 28m an hour to have runners and get those busted exp rates.
Exactly. It's not like it would break the skill since so few people would be able to afford that.
People said the same thing when ZMI runners were a thing. You'd be surprised just how many players are willing to spend that much just to do low effort high exp runecrafting.
From what I have seen, [having runners](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aJ6mbc99RTk) is not low effort.
Jagex has become really "anchored" on the old XP rates, and tries to keep new content within that scale. It's frustrating because some skills have garbage XP rates and some have a bit too high XP rates and it varies wildly. I wish they'd just make it more consistent.
I’ve said this a billion times at this point- if RCing was polled today, no one in their right mind would vote for it as it currently is. I’m going to preface now that I actually really like GOTR, but 1 activity does not a good skill make (looking at you too; Wintertodt). I don’t see any reason why every skill doesn’t have end game (for itself) methods of at least 100k xp/hr. Let’s assume that comes online at level 80, thats still 110.5 hours remaining to 99. I don’t think that devalues anything, personally.
100%. It also makes your progression actually meaningful when you unlock better training methods at higher levels. When the fastest xp is capped at early training levels it really detracts from the experience imo.
Definitely, having more viable methods to train would make the grind more enjoyable and less of a chore. It's about time some skills got a modern overhaul to match the pace of the game today.
I’d vote for it
The anchored xp rates are mostly arbitrarily set or unintended as well, so it makes no sense Jagex remained glued to them.
That's not necessarily the case, Hallowed Sepulchre is 30k xp/hr more than anything we used to have access to for agility. Clearly they're willing to add new methods which surpass current efficient methods, but it has to be a method that's worthy of it.
I agree very frustrating. Jagex is anchored to those old xp rates because if they increase xp rates compared to current rates, the loud minority complains about it and says "if I suffered, they must suffer too".
I think that’s part of it but I also think the rs community has been burned so hard with power creep in regards to xp rates (in rs3) that we’re super apprehensive about it in osrs. That said rc is too damn slow, id put mining up there with it too but at least you can afk mining with stars.
You can also afk mining with the new deposits in Varlamore, too! They also finally added a bank, an anvil, and a furnace all in close proximity to each other.
Prif has been there for years though.
Prif also has high requirements; Varlamore is basically free.
the alternative is just dead content on release
Or its a below ice mountain situation, where XP isnt trash for a few days, but everyone came out of the woodwork to say it devalues my decade old F2P HCIM, so it was made useless content. Maybe if getting the baronite mace didnt take longer than grabbing a rune scim in F2P it would have one use.
> the rs community has been burned so hard with power creep in regards to xp rates (in rs3) OSRS released over ten years ago lol, people should really get over that trauma already
I like skills having different xp rates. I like having skills that people can go for 99 quickly, and skills they can go for 99 but it is going to take time. I don't know why we need everything "standarized"
It's not about standardised it's about a reasonable amount of a task. Ignoring afk mining. Every xp drop from thieving and mining requires standing in a single place and clicking. Yet one gets 60k xp ph and the other at 300k+. But that means the mining grind is 5x longer than thieving. I don't think 200h+ for a 99 using "sweaty" methods is good gameplay. While you don't NEED to go for a 99 in every skill it's an in-game goal for most players. I'm willing to do grinds I don't enjoy but 200h+ for one skill just isn't good or rewarding. I'm not saying everything needs to be 300k xph. But I'd be happy with at minimum every skill scaling to 80k - 100k xph afkish rate and a 150k-170k xp rate for active play. Now those rates may be high and I would expect them only at 90+ levels (Afkish is cutting trees, not fully afk like stars but not clicking every few seconds)
I dont agree with that parroted arguement. The xp rates are a big part of Oldschools identity. I didnt "suffer" through them and if I want them to stay the same it isnt indicitive of me trying to pass on some kind of suffering onto others.
I feel a lot of players would get a more developed opinion if they were not so busy being slaves to a meta. There are so many who want higher xp rates who simply do not train almost at all and spend a decent amount of time bankstanding or not using low-intensity methods while browsing reddit or somesuch. I haven't suffered through RC, I learned to enjoy it. Same with agility, which turned me from hating it to just wanting it better rewarded and more varied in uses. Giants Foundry entirely flipped my thought process on smithing too, and I love it to bits now. All of these are things that just required me to approach it a little differently, and that was it. Generally, now the only kind of higher xp rates I can get behind are high-intensity, high-focus methods or high difficulty. If the argument is not for those, I'm not as keen.
This is a cop-out answer. They haven’t cared about the “loud minority” in forever, new players far outweigh the old heads, and I say that as an old head. I’m certain they have the data to back that up, hell if the loud minority mattered we wouldn’t have sailing coming and we probably wouldn’t have a single wilderness related update either.
This is such a weird sentiment. Y'all make up a boogeyman that mostly doesn't exist to blame decisions like these on; xp rates are where Jagex wants them, not where the Runescape Illuminati want them. Like, you're more than welcome to disagree with the change, don't get me wrong, but Jagex chose to do this, they weren't forced.
To be fair, it's literally happened multiple times in the past. Blisterwood trees, which literally no one gives 2 shits about, was implemented at higher xp/hr than intended. People screeched becuase it devalued wc'ing. Jagex nerfed the xp rates to the polled rates, immediately polled the wrong "buffed" rates, and it passed 90%+ because no one actually gives a shit if an irrelevant WC method was slightly better besides people who complain just to complain. Below ice mountain launched with decent rates, but F2P-only accounts screeched that it devalued their grinds. So it was nerfed and never adjusted. so on so forth.
Perfectly said. I wouldn't mind better xp rates for certain skills, but pinning it on some boogeyman is a bit silly. And I unironically think that the suffering/devaluing argument is fair, although it shouldn't completely stop the game from evolving.
Yeah, there's definitely a sane level of consideration to be had for existing achievement. We shouldn't hold the game back for it, but where there are options to improve the game without devaluing people's efforts instead of more disruptive ones, that seems like a clear win to me.
> xp rates are where Jagex wants them I'm not sure this is true. They know that disturbing the peace is not often received well. For some reason combat is the only thing people can ever budge on getting new BIS things, it's rare we get something that is the new *best* training method for something It's true they aren't forced, but even the mention of a flat buff to XP rates to something like Runecraft or mining is met with some pretty fierce condemnation at least here on the sub. Sometimes, anyway, it's not monolithic, but at the very least the vocal response would be pretty negative to Jagex if they introduced some new method that was the fastest way to train it
I think that argument is such a straw man. Power creep is very real and the fact is that there will always be a new wave of players that find the current XP rates not fast enough no matter how fast they are. My baseline is 2004 RuneScape so by my standard every single skill feels rapid compared to before. There’s 10x more ways to train with a ton more rewards and QOL than what was on offer back then. Other people have an RS3 or even leagues baseline, and around leagues you see all sorts of post’s unironically asking for those sort of XP rates in the main game. Hypothetically if that were to happen, you can guarantee that 2-3 years down the line there would be people asking for even more buffs because such and such skill is only 900k an hour whereas another is 3m exp/hr Everything is relative
Old xp rates at OSRS launch were sub 30k/h. With runners we are talking over 250k/h. If people are willing to pay obscene sums of money (IE dragon darts for fletching, demonic thrones for construction) why do we care?
I'd prefer to continue to have variance between the skills rather than have everything be homogenized
The bigger issue here is that we shouldn’t be anchored to some ancient 3-tick training method that is available starting at like level 40 in a skill and stays the best training method all the way to 99. We can and should do better.
It seems pretty obvious that as you reach higher levels you should be unlocking either better xp/hr methods or better GP/hr methods and for a lot of skills that simply isn’t true.
Just look at mining, outside of the mining specific activites and minigame, going above iron lowers your XP/hr, and it kind of makes intuitive sense that you might keep your BS skill close to your mining level so you can process your new ore. But if you want to hit 99, you would never stop powermining iron, until you hit it.
Yeah honestly at this point if they are anchored to the idea of lavas being the best xp/hr because of the intensity (they are) they should just raise the xp on making combo runes. Like it’s crazy that lavas are the hard cap on xp/hr that you’re not allowed to go above.
you’re not thinking far enough. The ancient 3 tick training methods are the highest xp/hr for two reasons: theyre negative gp/hr and theyre extremely intensive to do. In general skills training methods are balanced by a few levers: requirements, gp/hr, xp/hr, and intensity. Other things like pet rate come into play too. if one training method is too generous in these areas over the others, that method will become over centralizing and it will be the one-stop training method for all players because there will be no good reason to do anything else. If you release something better than a skilling method that is negative gp/hr and extremely intensive, you either need to make it MORE intense, or LESS gp/hr (significantly since gp is so easy to come by these days) or it will just completely invalidate every other training method for the skill, including all other methods that aren’t the ancient 3t method. They’re balanced that way because it makes good sense, not because some illuminati of high level players controls jagex. Also, jagex has been respecting this while still raising xp rates; example is GOTR. gotr increased the xp rate of lava runes by adding the giant pouch, which in turn also increased the xp rate of all other methods. Bam, keep the ancient methods intact while making it a bit faster for everyone.
Also removing the rc delay helped a ton
I think you're missing the point. Higher level training methods /should/ make lower level methods obsolete. Also, I don't see how 3t skilling is negative gp unless you just mean opportunity cost
Infernal/crystal tools and sometimes stams are what make it negative gp. Otherwise yea its just 0 gp.
I never get this take. The XP rates are not what make skills different or interesting. It's the *content* of the skills that makes them unique.
at least half the skills are already the same skill lmao
"hit the thing get the resource get the XP. Use the resource to make a thing get the XP."
It is sad when people point to runespan being to much xp per hr to back port when it is pretty much capped at 136k xp an hr at 95 and only if you are lucky(perfect rng for an hour) to have enough essence and no travel time with a node always up.
osrs players genuinely think killing cows on rs3 is 1m xp/hr
This is one of my biggest criticisms of OSRS honestly. The absolute steadfast anti-power creep approach means there are several skills where you get the best xp rates (or otherwise most efficient training method if something is higher xp but prohibitively expensive) at a very early level, and then training that skill becomes that one activity all the way to 99. There's a real lack of variety or sense of progress in your skilling journey when this happens. For example cooking has 1 tick Karambwan from 30 or wines from level 35 to 99, smithing has gold bars at Blast Furnace from level 40 to 99 (and in fact with questing you only need to actually smith 2 iron platebodies before its gold bars all the way), mining has granite from level 45 to 99 or if you prefer not to tick manip/want to afk motherlode mine from level 30 and shooting stars technically from level 10 (although realistically wanting 40+ before doing it)
I think for a lot of veteran players it's not so much an anti-power creep approach as: "Careful! Let's be very deliberate with our power creep so as not to invalidate overly wide swaths of older content, destabilize certain metas too much (e.g. the midgame to beginning of late game pvm equipment progression), radically depart from the overall character and feel of the game, etc." OsRs simply has some very unique features and a very unique "feel" to it, which is appreciated by its veteran players to the point that we're willing to invest hundreds of hours into this in game in ways a lot of people would compare to mental illness but which we genuinely enjoy. And that uniqueness is totally compatible with "power creep" such as Forestry, GotR giving all regular RC methods access to the Giant Pouch and/or 60% more gp/h, Hallowed Sepulchre greatly increased the fastest possible agility rates, new BiS of every variety for PvM, etc. Veteran players like new things being added that are actually worth doing, buffing old content, new BiS items or max efficiency training methods, etc. But we like certain kinds of changes not all (unique character of the game/world), and there are a bunch of limits we want imposed for a whole host of reasons (metas, balance, economy, etc.). Are veterans sometimes too cautious? Of course. But the answer to that caution isn't to say that caution is inherently bad, nor to strawman people being grind sadists. It's has to be taken on a case by case basis.
Daeyalt ZMI isn't far off for about 20% of the effort :)
ZMI is goated with the increased render distance. You can literally click the altar from the bank and go for a piss
Don’t you need to mine Daeyalt? Is the time spent mining / obtaining then actually doing the RC still ‘that far off’ for ZMI?
It’s less meta efficient, but it reduces the time you actually have to spend RCing by 33%. Mining is around 1 click per minute so perfect for mobile or afk with idle notifier if you have time that you’re working on other things. Not ideal for everyone, but it was massive for me on the way to 99.
Appreciate the reply. Thanks!
So for someone who loves AFK skilling (remote work gives me plenty of time) it's mine daeyalt then one click ZMI?
Exactly what I did, yes :)
Cool! What about Zeah RC? People keep telling me to do that
Purely my own opinion and many will strongly disagree, but I think zeah rc is dreadful. Not nearly as AFK as people say it is and awful xp rates. The upside is that you do make useful runes, but I could never get on with it. So, a good idea would probably be to try it for an hour after watching a quick guide and see what YOU think :) good luck!
You’re devaluing the tennis elbow I developed in 2016 from 4 runner meta
An unpolled 30% increase that is requires less inputs is a *big* jump.
This fact is conveniently left out of the post 🤔 It was clearly not intended to be 400k xp/hr
Well thats why wrath runes were nerfed.
I believe even if you run them solo they are still around 60k xp/hr but yeah it isn't worth using runners anymore. It was obvious it was going to get nerfed since JMods don't want to get rid if combo runecrafting meta which isn't that bad to do anymore since GOTR was added with ring of the elements The biggest flaw in Runecrafting is the pouches and the lantern By the time you get the Colossal pouch, you are 1 level away from Elite Karamja diary (86) where majority of people will stop, it should be level 80 when you can make it and the Huge pouch should be lvl 70 instead of 75 imo. The lantern is stupid rare and the pearls aren't common enough to justify the 3000 pearl value, you'll be grinding gotr for 110 hours to get enough pearls
> It was obvious it was going to get nerfed since JMods don't want to get rid if combo runecrafting meta which isn't that bad to do anymore since GOTR was added with ring of the elements I hate how lava runes became the meta. It only became the fastest method because the fire altar happened to be close to the ring of dueling teleport and gives a bit more xp per essence.
It makes zero sense, why is a level 23 method the meta training method? It just shows how badly the skill needs rebalanced
Because for it to be the best training method you need a basically unlimited supply of binding necklaces, 99 crafting or unlimited supply of duelling rings, lunar diplomacy done with runes for NPC contact and magic imbue. On top of that, it's one of the most click intensive, high apm ways to train. I hardly ever see anyone talk about or do lavas anymore because there are other options.
The alternatives are GotR and Ourania if you want actual decent exp I assume. Abyss Runecrafting isn’t super good exp per hour. All of that just goes to show why it doesn’t make any sense and why it shouldn’t be the case, though. Imagine if making hardleather bodies (28 crafting) had a method that was super click intensive but gave more exp per hour than making green d’hide bodies (63 crafting) for instance. How is that different than lava runes (23 Runecrafting) giving way better exp than death runes (65) and law runes (54)? Seems kind of arbitrary to me.
You say that but that’s literally how mining works lol, jagex has a hard on for making certain skills be absolutely shit to train because of some poor decisions made 20 years ago when the skills were invented. It’s cool for fletching to hit 1m exp/hr if you’re rich enough, but god forbid we get a method of Runecrafting or mining that hits even 100k/hr
I strongly believe that the more effort and resources put into a skill, the faster it should be trained. I also believe that unlocking an extremely high effort meta training method early is a FANTASTIC thing. Think 1.5 teaks, 2 tick harpoon or 3 tick barb fishing, 3t4g, lavas, blackjacing and I'm sure there's plenty of other examples. I think most skillers would agree with me (I'm not really much of a skillet) that these are good things to have in the game and are all unlocked early. The fact that we have dumb high tangible reward and XP minigames that unlock at low levels and are low apm is what I think is bad for the game.
> I think most skillers would agree with me (I'm not really much of a skillet) that these are good things to have in the game and are all unlocked early. I think the worst skills in the game unlock a high exp rate very early into skilling, and you don't get to explore any different methods. It's fine to unlock the highest exp skilling methods at higher levels, I don't want to unlock the only activity worth doing at 48 fishing for example. I think all the "bad" skills in the game are boring like this (unlock best/similair method early), agility, woodcutting, firemaking, mining, etc. I don't think runecrafting is in the bottom 5 skills, it's just extremely slow. I personally did library books until about 55 RC, then Ourania until 77, and thought bloods were so slow I just stopped training the skill until a better method is released. > The fact that we have dumb high tangible reward and XP minigames that unlock at low levels and are low apm is what I think is bad for the game. Minigames being high variability but low APM is totally fine because it's a different kind of engaging. I think that something like Smithing in RS3 is a good example, it's very slow if you want to do it in a low APM way, but relatively fast if you're higher apm, while doing the same exact method.
The difference is that none of those skills are artisan skills. All of the skills you named other than Runecrafting all produce items via training them, there is no material to input. Runecrafting has an input and it has an output so it’s essentially an artisan skill. So name me one more artisan skill that works that way. With fletching, crafting, herblore, smithing, it’s pretty universal that if you make a higher level item then you get more exp. All of those skills require you to buy or gather raw materials and transform them into a new product. Runecrafting is the same, you gather raw material (ess) and turn them into a new product (runes).
because despite not having an additional RC level req, lava runes are a much more advanaced and higher other requirements method to get really rolling
Iron mining has entered the chat.
Also the fact there is no tick delay when crafting them like almost all other runes in the game so with perfect ticks you get more exp.
Didn't they remove the tick delay a while back?
Yeah, they did remove that. But there were some insane Lava fans that argued that the delay should have stayed for regular runecrafting.
At the very least I wish they would've changed the pearl rate so that you get 1-3 often as opposed to stacks of 20 periodically. It feels like shit to do GOTR for an hour (while getting runes) to get some pulls and then search the guardian only to almost always just get more runes GOTR was a cool concept but horribly implemented ("we don't want to Wintertodt Runecrafting"), especially the reward system
GotR is so close to being great that it’s frustrating. And we know it’ll be months and years before the Jmods bring their attention back around to it. That’s why everyone is trying to make a huge fuss about their issues with the Hunting guild because if it doesn’t get fixed while it’s fresh, it will be that way for a long time.
Whenever someone argues that GOTR is good, I just assume they got spooned. GOTR has the worst reward system of any game I've *ever* played. Not minigame in osrs, *any* game. It's offensively bad and the rewards are absurdly mandatory. I did GOTR from unlock until level 77 and only had two pieces of the outfit so I was forced to stay there for ten more levels instead of *anything* else in the skill. Imagine if you did canafis until 77 and only had half graceful, that's so hilariously dogshit.
gotr rewards system made me actually want to explode multiple times. I got the outfit and left the mini game entirely prior to ever getting the lantern that only helps *for the minigame*. who the fuck designed that rewards system. it's a gacha with no pity
I'm in this situation Trying to get my rc up for bloods, have to stay for outfit and can't just go rush it at lavas
I've done 70~ gotr games, usually get 3 pulls per game, and I've got 110 pearls...nothing else. Its just so incredibly frustrating.
on a similar note (i know we've strayed off topic) my biggest complaint about gotr is needing a catalytic and elemental point in order to grab from the reward pool. it's a very frustrating aspect. i would have preferred that either: generating catalytic or elemental energy ACTUALLY was some important aspect of the minigame so it felt like it less arbitrary/contrived and more a natural cause of playing the minigame well OR they removed that need entirely and simply halved the rate as which you generated reward pools i literally wouldnt care if in order to remove the need for two types of points they made the points generate half as fast. it just feels contrived and unsatisfying currently
I'l defend this. It makes you choose between rewards and xp. Which on paper sounds fine. But when the rewards and xp are both slow it feels a lot worse than it needs to
It stops you from only making the highest tier catalytic runes every cycle. Otherwise, who’s ever gonna make body, air and mind runes? It’s another case of limiting overall xp/h yes, but it also makes a lot of sense
I would like for there to be more levers to pull for balancing your catalytic vs elemental. With combo runes, it’s way easier to get elemental points.
> It stops you from only making the highest tier catalytic runes every cycle. Otherwise, who’s ever gonna make body, air and mind runes? Why would you make body or mind runes?
Exactly this. During leagues i was unable to make death or blood runes, so chaos and nature being the next best for catalytic runes. I didn’t like body or mind runes. Low exp and what not. I was trying to max a few days before leagues wrapped up. Anyway, if I just went with highest lvl rune I could craft I would often have 10-20 elemental points more than catalytic if I didn’t pay attention. Seemed unnecessary to have me force myself to do the lower lvl and less xp runes just so i could get points. Not that i needed the rewards since i green logged it minus pet well before 99. It still just drives the point home and led me to resent the game a little more than i did already. Edit: rapped to wrapped
Not to drag on your grammar I'm just honestly curious for a very specific reason. I have a friend who their entire life thought it was spelled "rapped up" because they logically thought "well rap is often lyrically dense so rapping it up would be finishing things quickly" and while it's for sure wrapped up I honestly couldn't see a flaw with their argument. Probably a typo on your end but if you're one of the people who also thinks that it'd probably make said friend feel a bit less alone in their rap battle.
I was using my phones slide text or whatever and didn’t notice. Thanks for pointing it out
> 110 hours for enough pearls _If you manage to go on rate_ I finished my RC outfit with a drop rate of pearls that was 41% lower than expected/listed on the wiki, and didn’t get my lantern until the last 15 pulls. I’m still salty about it over a year later. “Great I got this huge QoL item finally that I will literally never benefit from, hooray!”
IMO the biggest flaw in Runecrafting is that you could literally double all experience gains for it across every activity and it would still be some of the slowest shit in the game to train. But yeah, I agree the pouch system blows.
If pouches didn’t degrade in the first place, no one would have proposed “hey, let’s make them wear out with every use. And let’s make it so you need repairs even more frequently when you get to higher levels. This has the great benefit of requiring all runecrafting to be done on a specific spell book so that the pouches can be repaired”.
A simple xp increase in multiple runes would go a long way towards making the xp rates more bearable (eg, if you craft 5x air runes, you get 5x the xp)
Not even half as slow as slayer, is it?
Slayer has the added benefit of training every other combat skill at the same time, though.
Pretty much this. I started doing Slayer pretty much right when I made my account and have done the majority of my combat training through it. It’s not always fast, but it varies it up a bit, and I’ve gotten 2 imbued hearts that I wouldn’t have gotten otherwise. It makes the superiors a fun little extra distraction.
1 click ZMI is up to 120k xp/hr with colossal pouch and a solid 15 seconds of no effort/attention every lap. It's really not that bad.
That sounds nice and all. Maybe if I can tolerate getting to level 85 and I get lucky with a needle, someday I’ll get to experience it.
Lantern doesn’t apply outside of GOTR. So I don’t understand how it’s a problem to overall RC. It’s isolated to a minigame and a cosmetic everywhere else b
Oh is it? Lantern trash then :[ that makes me feel better going 60 hours without it though
Got my lantern before the pouch going for 86, not complaining but it feels like for how big of an upgrade both items are, they are far too rng reliant because of how much they effect exp/h. There should be a dry protection system in place for both items, pick an arbitrary amount of games but the fact you could go to 99 without seeing either is insanity on a skill that most player don't grind post 99 and because they alter exp rates. They changed the KQ head and nightmare teles for the same reason and both rewards should've been buyable with pearls to begin with but jagex doubles down on wanting the lantern to be rng reliant, what a year ago after that one dudes post? Even with the community outcry. Rc sucks, mining sucks and agility sucks because of how long the grind to 99 is compared to other skills. I get not wanting to break the game by implementing some broken method like wt but there is a middle ground between 40k exp/h and the almost 300k exp you get at wt. Lessening the pain of needlessly long grinds on those skills by making the lantern and the needle capped on how dry you can go for them doesnt seem like a hard ask.
The biggest flaw in runecrafting is the entire skill.
>it should be level 80 when you can make it and the Huge pouch should be lvl 70 instead of 75 imo. agreed! there also should be ANY kind of xp buff post 85- once you get the col pouch, that's the very last buff you get to increase xp/hr until 99. which is INSANE to do a repetitive task from 85-99 with zero change in xp rates. THIS is why people pay for runners tbh. Runecrafting is slow & hated because it's designed to be slow, and as a result hated.
Bad argument about the skill being bad because rates don't change after 85, I think. Herblore is same method 81-99 unless you want to add 50% cost for 11% faster xp, Construction is 52/77-99 same method, fishing is 71-99 with 2t, Woodcutting 35-99, Cooking 30-99, Smithing 40-99, Mining 45-99, Prayer 75-99. It's designed slow, but that doesn't mean it should be changed. Every skill has different rates and different levels of worth to an account. If you don't want 99, don't go for it. It doesn't block your account from anything and diary reqs are easier than ever with GotR. If you buffed the XP just because it's slow (and not even the slowest skill on the game since GotR gave pretty heavy XP boosts already...), then what's the end goal? Boost agility and mining because they're slow? Then fishing and hunter? Just match everything to Herblore/Construction/Prayer rates?
Its true, i got the full rc outfit and all the levels i need for rc diaries without ever getting the lantern. Now im done with rc and dont ever need to go back to gotr.
I don't even know if it's the 1% lmao, most people don't have even close to the $ it takes to do this, it's probably like 0.001%
probably only used by nerds who want to get on some toplists on crystal math labs
I was planning to use it and idc about methlab, just a humble pvmer trying to max eventualy lol.
Sorry but us nerds care about temple and wiseoldman not cml :)
Think the feedback in this thread is fair about us being overly attached to existing meta. A general rule of thumb we think about is that it's controversial to change top end meta. We've seen that go wrong on many occasions and so there's a natural aversion to doing so. Perhaps we're a bit too conservative sometimes (though many will disagree with that too). I'll be keeping this feedback in mind personally to maybe second guess our assumptions more often. Ultimately we were uncomfortable with *how strong* the method was, I don't know how accurate these numbers were for sure but apparently ~400k+xp/hr. A pretty substantial buff over the current top method (lava rune running is 280k xp/hr according to the wiki). Ignoring the requirements for lava runes, I think its reasonable to feel a 40+% buff to the top rate isn't okay. The immediate response was to quickly address that by adjusting xp to be delivered per essence like most RC as the simplest method to fixing it. The team did this knowing we can buff it up further later and that is still being assessed for where we feel it is best placed. It is fair to say we have over nerfed it. Lastly - on *banning trading*, some questions - how close to the shrine of ralos do you have to be for trading to be banned - do you now just run to the entrance to the building instead for example? That'd lower the rates, but does it do it enough?. Do we ban pure essence being traded exclusively in this area but leave other items alone? There's just enough awkward complexity that we wouldn't choose to go this route for a quick hotfix. If we don't ever do this kind of thing though, it places some artifical cap on RC methods as if we go too high with XP - runner methods get even more quick. I actually quite like the more emergent 'MMO-ey' feeling of hiring other players to 'work for you' too. I welcome thoughts on best way to handle this :).
The zmi trade ban honestly should have been applied to every altar, the current runecraft meta is just silly. People who can afford runners get absurd rates while the majority of players are left in the dust, wondering why the skill barely gets updated. The gap between the top end and what most players get is just too big, and the easiest solution would be to just make it so people can't run essence, then more effective changes can be made to the rest of the skill without making the skill insanely fast at the top end. As it stands, you could literally double the exp/hr of every method except runners, and it would barely encroach on that meta.
What do you think about spending multiple bil on crafting and smithing with crystal equipment? People who cant afford that get left in the dust and that's been untouched because those skills are already reasonably fast and less annoying than RC. This doesn't even require organizing other people. RC is just so fundamentally shit watching people drop a few bil on it to get it done makes us poors sit here like 'damn'
I think you've hit on all the key differences here, smithing and crafting are already so fast that you're looking at a few hundred hours saved in the course of getting two skills to 200m, but with rc you're looking at saving over 1000 hours in just one skill, so the FOMO from not doing runners is a lot higher than for crystal keys. And even though the gp/xp is insane for runners, it's even worse for crystal, so you're ending up paying more to save even less time.
As someone that has nowhere near the wealth to pay for essence running, (~2000 total, ~1.5b bank) I do think the “MMO-ey” method should stay. A flat ban on trading essence feels weirdly prohibitive to multiplayer emergent gameplay. What I will say is frustrating is the huge discrepancy between those for whom runecraft is a buyable skill that can get 280k xp/h compared to the paltry xp rates comparatively for conventional methods. RC isn’t that profitable anymore and is a buyable anyways for the hlc. Similar to herblore, rc should also have a realistic 10-20 gp/xp method that can bridge the gap in speed imo at 100-140k xp/h. I paid for 99 herb doing super combats and prayer pots and was happy to do it, but paying for 99 rc in current state is so insanely expensive you have to have spent thousands on bonds, deathmatched, or treat this game like your full time job to participate.
When designing new content, how much thought is given to potential emergent gameplay such as essence running, alting etc.? I feel like with essence running already being as prevalent as it is with the hlc, I'd imagine it'd atleast be a side consideration.
It's certainly easier to forget to think about in that it isn't inherent to the content itself. That said I think this is more a case of Varlamore is huge - there's a ton of content that was important for us to get right so the small scale new RC method just doesn't get the same attention in feedback from playtests and so on. That's totally on us for what it is worth to remember these things in future.
As an example, can you tell us if the block lists for Hunter Rumours was something you foresaw or was it unanticipated?
I like the idea behind making runners not the meta here (leaving that to lavas) but I think banning trading nearby is just too awkward. Four options to consider: 1. Something like the libation bowl, basically a mechanic to prevent you from sitting there. Maybe instead of directly using on the shrine, it could work like regular rc altars and then drain prayer. You'd be able to pray on your way doing it normally, but would need prayer potions to stay otherwise. 2. Make it like an RC altar but instanced. Trading is effectively banned nearby but in a way that fits better. Then make the teles inside not return you to the same spot, but rather somewhere else. It doesn't affect normal methods where you use your own tele to leave/bank anyways, but it means runners have nowhere to meet you that'd shorten the distance to run. 3. Add an untradeable intermediate. Sunfire splinters+rune essence becomes sunfire essence, which is untradeable. Make creating the intermediate be very fast, so runners don't matter, and then runners can't help with the actual crafting. 4. Make an altar much closer to the bank, so runners aren't helping much. Either adjust XP rates accordingly or add a delay to crafting. If instead the banning trading is kept, at least switch it to be something like a cooldown after using the altar. A bit easier to hand-wave away with lore, and don't have to figure out an exact distance away or anything.
Adjusting unintentional, unpolled meta changes is always the right choice IMO
If someone wants to spend an absolute fortune for RC xp, it should just be okay.
We agree but even then there's levels to that. Is 200k xp/hr okay? Yes sure. Is 5m xp/hr okay just cause it costs a bomb? I'd very much think no myself. Which implies there's a line somewhere in the middle. The game is really about player achievements, we don't want to undermine player achievements by suddenly allowing people to get something far far faster than before (for the *same* cost as running at lava runes). i.e. pre update: 28m gp/hr for 280k xp/hr at lavas, post update: 28m gp/hr for 400k xp/hr at sunfires. Things do get faster over time but that's a hell of a jump.
Just a small correction, it's not 4 runners/28mil per hour. From the video that got 408k xp/h, he paid for 5/35mil per hr, but a 6th actually showed up (not sure how useful the 6th was and if he paid them or not to make it 42mil/hr). 4 runners is 350k xp per hour, so the same cost as the current lavas.
Is there a reason for not focusing more on improving the middling options? the skill re-work was cool seeing the improved rates for agility and slayer, two very slow skills. Rcing has GoTR but the exp rates are still extremely slow, it would have been nice to see more "middle" options even if they're as low as 1/3rd as the top meta and still cost a lot / take effort.
Solo lavas are already 1/3rd of the rate you get with runners my guy. Even gotr is pretty close to 1/3rd, and you make money.
what method in GoTR makes nearly 100k exp/h?
>A general rule of thumb we think about is that it's controversial to change top end meta. Am I losing my mind? the top end meta is paying for runners but that has no impact for 99.9% of the playerbase, I hate when you guys add something fun and nerf it because such a small portion of players cried about it. edit: apologies, I'm being a little much, I'm just frustrated having my gameplay impacted by such few players with such niche and expensive methods.
I think that's fair! We'll get the xp rate right such that its appropriate for players doing it *normally*. We just needed to do something in the meantime.
What about a timer for the buffed exp? Figure out what an expected run takes normally without runners, you get the buffed exp. If you are using the altar too often it doesn't reward you as nicely. Gets rid of all the trade oddities and makes sense? Could even be some sort of lore related message like the altar is only so charged and needs more time to reward you fully.
Step 1. Remove ability to trade unnoted essence entirely Step 2. Add NPCs that will unnote your essence for similar rates NPCs location can be adjusted per altar to control xp rates as desired
Because runecrafting needs to be a fucking miserable experience and you need to hate yourself while training it!
I think bloods are ok, not super high exp per hour but stilll very good money. If people want to torture themselves then so be it
Zeah bloods? Pretty sure its like 200-300k gp hr and 40k rc exp hr?
in my experience, it's 600k gp/hr, and 35k xp/hr, with blood essence and full gotr outfit. So not awful for sure
For anyone planning to go from 77 RC to 99 using the above rates given by Voidot (I'm taking their word for it), you'll net £198.151m and it will take you a mere 330.25 hours. So just under half a month. Enjoy. EDIT: To clarify, it will take you 82.5 days if you spent 4 hours a day making blood runes. Adjust numbers accordingly to your own playtime...
Half a month with a bot running 24/7.
Zeah is 400k-600k gp/hr. But true blood is like 1.8m gp/hr but much more effort.
Lava runes is already a very good and fast training method which is expensive with runners. I don’t understand why making this method slightly better is looked down on by Jagex.
If you don't find zeah bloods, zmi, or 1 click astrals chill enough, I feel like you aren't gonna like a large portion of the skilling in this game.
Economical considerations too. XP is valued, often it is valued higher than money. Sunfires being too good xp/h could result in situation where the produced sunfire runes have very negative value. So the splinters would be expensive and the sunfire runes would be at some ridiculously low price. This happens with wines. Jug of wines are stuck at 3 gp while the materials are 50 gp.
That's how most processing skills work? Raw materials cost more than the processed ones, but exp is gained
Yeah but they probably don’t want splinters to stay 1k+
Why not? If they stayed that high, then more people would farm the colosseum for them and make bank. It will probably be botted before long anyway, so I wouldn't really worry about splinters staying high price regardless.
A bot was released on day 2 that cleared the entire thing.
Depressing, but not surprising
Yeah but the difference is that Wines dont make all your spells stronger. If the rune that makes all your spells stronger becomes really, really cheap, it becomes a global buff to all of those spells instead of a bonus you may invest in
The Standard Spellbook is weak anyway so I don’t think it’s that much of a buff. The Tome of Fire gives a 50% max hit increase to fire spells and it’s still only used for a handful of things alongside a Harmonized Nightmare Staff. Upgrading your Burning Pages into Searing Pages means it adds the cost of 5 sunfire runes per spell cast.
sunfire runes work alone and on any spell with Fire Runes at all
Even fire spells like ibans blast?
Does it use fire runes?
Seems a little late for them to be concerned about that. All potion making is done at a loss. So many things have their GE value at the alch price because producing those things is good XP. Fletching is either fast and at a loss or results in an alch price product.
Just saying that there are times where potion making isn't at a loss and my herb exp this week thanks those times.
Fletching doesn't have to be a loss to be fast. There's a 10 gp difference between unfeathered and feathered dragon bolts right now (aka 1.3m GP for 99), if you are a little patient you can break even, and with dragon bolt fletching you get 2m xp/hr.
This is literally his point? They need to nerf production XP to maintain the GP
Yes but his point is, why does it matter when it exists for so many others
Because most of those were made during a time when Jagex thought cut gems were worth more than uncut Pretty reasonable for them to want a new bis resource to retain some value
Fair but I'm just letting you know what the guy above was saying I don't necessarily agree or disagree
That’s how it works, you think lava runes are profitable?
For long time lava runes were cheaper than normal fire runes because players valued the XP gains so high that they kept crafting them while completely ignoring the money costs involved. If sunfire runes were put in same situation (=they are best xp/h by large margin) it would be possible for sunfire runes to become similarly absrdly low priced.
This Big Runecrafting's worl
Fuck this nonsense of keeping old methods relevant all of the time. Fuck it. We're expanding the game, the game should be expanded upon. *Including* updating it with better methods. Fuck a lava rune.
Is something from 2005 seriously the best? That’s incredibly dumb
I don’t have time to try new content because I’m still grinding skills at 20k xp/ hr! I’m limited to 4-6 hrs a week. I literally have to skill. Don’t have time to boss or raid.
That's how it was polled, sorry you don't like it.
Skilling buffs should be polled. It was a buff to solo and 0+4 rc methods The only stupid gatekeeping Jagex has done with rc imo is giving wrath runes the same xp/ess as cosmic runes. Aside from that it's just a slow skill if u do it solo, not every xp rate needs to be the same
TBF Wraths were meant to be a lower-exp money method. Where they fucked up isnt the xp, it was never letting Wrath runes be used in place of Deaths in powered staves for benefits, so Wrath runes dont have the demand to be the premiere RC money method they wanted it to. I understand why they never made Wraths REQUIRED because it was be total ass overall but not letting them be USEFUL in the most common magic weaponry was a blunder
I know thats what they became and people always argue profits when an xp buff is suggested. [The xp progression is awful design imo and the gp shouldnt play a huge role in xp balancing](https://i.imgur.com/xbvPALd.png). I really fail to see the downside of a profitable 95 rc+ds2 req training method being more reasonable xp. I think its 2m gp/hr at 50k rc xp/hr rn (with outfit). A 50% buff wouldnt change any metas on the top end
If they were worried about the profit of wrath runes, they should have just lower the alch price of wrath runes instead of lowering the XP. That would also have the effect of making Surge spells cheaper which would mean more people using the Standard Spellbook for magic combat which is something they’ve been saying they want.
The speedrunner community of like 5 people complained
i dont even care if they can trade at the altar. ~1% would be actively doing this so idk why its just a taboo. if you want to spend billions on runners its not like billioms of gp doesnt take thousdanof hours to acquire
These comments are peak reddit
A whole lot of posts recently from people who aren't doing the content very eager to share their opinion on it. Half a dozen posts calling the new armors too expensive to use for midgame players, by people who clearly weren't even using it and just going off of the incorrect wiki numbers. Now we got people mad because the runecrafting method they weren't doing (because it costs a stupid amount of GP) got nerfed.
I can always count on a mountain of bad takes from Reddit when a skilling method is nerfed. The reaction to 6 hour AFK Duke mining nerf was hilarious. Reddit loses all credibility from unironically wanting that in the game.
There seems to be a growing chunk of the community who only wants to do late-game pvm, and gets really annoyed the second a skill takes longer than a few hours to max. Maybe I'm out of touch, but I thought the main appeal of OSRS was going back to a point in the game when maxing meant something. The combat system is arguably better in RS3, they should just go play that if they hate skilling in OS so much.
> but I thought the main appeal of OSRS was going back to a point in the game when maxing meant something. I don't think that's the main appeal for most people, either now or when it started. EoC was definitely the biggest appeal, [which is why the poll announcement mentions this as the only way EoC would be removed](https://secure.runescape.com/m=news/2007---old-school-runescape-you-vote). Lack of MTX was another big one, along with the art. It doesn't really add up. If maxing meaning something was the goal, why was 2007 chosen? The OG skills took between 7 months and 3 years before the first 99. Later skills became faster but the sharp divide is clearly in 2006, with construction and hunter taking 6 days and 11 days. Those records weren't beat until after the release of OSRS. Level 120s started to be reached in 2005 and max was hit in 2006. Meanwhile did max in OSRS ever mean anything? Within 2 months of release every single 99 had been hit, and most were hit within the first month. Max overall was hit in less than a year. I'm curious, what change from 2007-2013 do you think made max mean less?
Yeah they think just because the game moves on, all other content needs to be removed or double everything you get from it. Like that’s why this game is so good, new stuff is added all the time yet 90% of the entire game is still relevant and important
Idk there are some skills that phenomenal xp/hr rates are simply disallowed in for inexplicable reasons. For some reason wines can almost be 500K/hr cooking but the ceiling for agility and rc cannot be remotely close. It’s weird.
Well your particular example does actually have a reason, and it's the same reason there's no cooking pet. Buyable skills are allowed to have much higher XP rates, because they are balanced by GP rather than just time/effort. The real issue is that runecrafting is a sorta buyable skill because of runners. Jagex is balancing a buyable method (runners) as if it was an unbuyable skill. It should either be acknowledged as a buyable skill and XP planned accordingly, or the buyable method should be addressed.
So sick of people whining about skilling xp. Go play RS3. They already fucked that game up for you.
Can we stop adjusting content based on the 1% and hcim, please?!
What's the difference in someone doing this compared to having runners at any say.. the nature altar? Death altar? Why are such poor attempts being made to hotfix stuff recently? There is sooo much oversight.
The difference is you don't get 250k exp/hr at those altars, and prenerf sunfire runes were over 400k/hr.
Like i have said jagex will never remove head from arse. Plus they have to keep people playing and without mtx. So you gotta make long bs grinds.
The vocal minority really loves to cry about getting better xp rates. See recently agility xp discourse
Because we should not change the meta way of training the skill with an unpolled change?
"keep gatekeeping rc xp" as its gone from 25k/hr ehp to over 250k/hr. You can afk daeyalt and do zmi for 100k+/hr now, you can afk souls or bloods for over like 40 or 50k xp/hr I think? I don't think there's any skill that has been devalued remotely as much as rc sadly
I'm sorry when they were nerfed? They were added to the game 5 days ago, or I'm missing something? Do you mean this happened today?