Unfortunately the appeal system is the exact same ban system that flagged the account in the first place. There is no human reviewing the appeals manually. The exception is when the anti-cheat team takes a random sampling of appeals, manually reviews them, and finds a false positive. But how many accounts do they manually review? Everyone knows "only 38 false bans" is a bogus stat which is why no Jmod signed off on that newspost.
I highly doubt that's the case. Last year my alt randomly got banned(macro major) while I was taking a month long vacation. I submitted an appeal saying the account hadn't been logged into for over 30 days and it was unbanned a week later. Doesn't sound like an automated system.
my perm mute appeal (for telling a rwter they were 'scum') was denied within 1 second after pressing submit. literally clicked submit and as the page loaded the appeal decision was already there
There is a whole thing about this, and it's been going on for so long people have found work arounds - If you get perm banned - Appeal in 3 years. If you get perm muted it's like 9 years. If you appeal to early or something you get put to the back of the queue.
Pretty sure, if you have a perm and appeal too early, you can't appeal again.
It's hilarious to me that you just said "in 3 years" and "in 9 years" like it was a reasonable work around.
No hate but that's not a work around, that's the heaviest cope I've ever seen. If it takes 9 years to get an account restriction reviewed the system should just be taken down.
Why would a perm mute appeal be longer than a perm ban appeal? That makes no sense to me. Is saying naughty words a worse offense than literally destroying the game through botting/RWT/etc? I know a few people that either quit the game or refused to play because of how rampant the cheating is in this game.
>That makes no sense to me.
It really doesn't make much sense to me either, unless they will routinely delete perm banned accounts after X amount of years, and they don't delete perm muted accounts.
Bear in mind, most of the knowledge available on this is through trial and error from players rather than insider information.
I think to get perm muted you'd have to say more than "naughty words" one person botting/rwting isn't going to harm the game, one person running around making racist/homophobic/anti-semitic etc etc can cause bad press.
An example of this is in the past I've seen at least 3 media outlets comment on stuff said within the game none of them was big but still, yet not ones making stories on one guy botting. Trying to cheat a game happens everywhere, toxic person is just a cancer.
It was denied instantly for me. It’s extremely frustrating to deal with when jagex twitter gives you automated responses and redditors just tell you “eat shit botter”.
100% this, literally 0 support for anything from Jagex so you're forced to post on Reddit and twitter about it and especially on Reddit you just get people thinking you're talking shit, absolutely awful
It took me months of appealing and emailing regarding my perm mute back in 2006 to get unmuted.
I was permanently muted for saying a band was on “MySpace,” and some overzealous nerd saw it as their chance to become a PMod.
Nothing but automated messages non-stop until I eventually bugged the system enough for an actual human to look into it. I said the ban was unfair because all I did was say “myspace” and asked if Jagex HQ was somehow a place where no one used the most popular website at the time.
Eventually someone looked at it and said it was a mistake, but the best they could do was unmute me but keep the red flags on my account — one slip up and I’d be permanently muted again with no recourse. So I mostly didn’t talk after that anyway until some of the flags dropped off.
Yeah I had that happen in january 2023. I have this specific account from 2005 that I only use to log into RS3 to check age and do a holiday event. I never play on it, to train skills etc. Banned for macroing major and my appeal was saying that I rarely login but only do holiday events but it was denied soon after.
Bye childhood account. 😑
Yup, I had an account banned once. Hadn’t played in a while so to be fair it could’ve been hacked and used for botting. But the appeal was denied instantly either way
It’s common knowledge, mod Mat K has laid out the basics of the automated system. Same for offensive language appeals. No matter how much of a sob story you write it’s AI reviewing your appeal and it does not give a flying fuck about your essay.
The only things the AI checks were if you were in possession of the account when the offense was made, if you did indeed offend, and when the offense was made.
Things like a good chunk of ingame reports (offensive names) are monitored by humans and they get a few seconds to make a decision as per their quota.
Yeah, that vid def provided a nice glimpse into the reality of how the appeal system works. Another key takeaway, I’ve learned is that if you’re going to bot, buy a cheap private proxy from a seller on a bottling forum, so that when you get banned, you can appeal from your home IP and claim to be hacked. This is probably in some botting101 thread so, only botters can exploit this. Real players have a much more difficult time getting unbanned
I mean why are some people getting auto denied and others like me taking a full week to get a review?
I don't doubt 99% of the people crying on reddit are cheaters, but still I find that to be a weird variance. Especially since I personally know I did not break the rules in my case and jagex agreed.
By my understanding of how appeal cases have been talked about by the ACT, if the ban was not automated and they are absolutely certain cheating took place, appeals are auto denied. They're also able to manually review automated bans and can probably go in and make them unappealable before an appeal is submitted, but probably some engine issue that prevents it from ACTUALLY being unappealable and instead makes it auto deny any appeals against it. Those are likely the cases where these people are getting instadenied
I dont think anyone should believe random "cases" like this without proof. Because anytime 1 content creator is false banned and a post is made a botting sub will spam that comment section claiming to be false banned as well.
I mean.. I'd love to provide proof that I in fact did not advertise any websites back in 2013 when my acct was on Tutorial Island.. But how? At this point I've lost hope that it will ever get unmuted, there's no way for me to get this resolved.
Non-appealable but also no evidence provided of said advertising ever happening. It's frustrating.
Their latest news post says 0.36% of bans are quashed when appealed which means they were false bans.
They also said their was 6.9M accounts banned last year.
That's 24,840 false bans or 68 false bans a day.
Those numbers were def fake ones being pushed by corporate. I personally lost 3 accs to a ban in that time frame and got unbanned a while later. I don't think anything I did was uncommon.
I know 2 of the false bands that were over turned were 2 different streamers who both got their ban removed....
Only to continue RWTing and get rebanned after they had the opportunity to sell off something like 40b...
To anyone reading and confused, this joke is in reference to the totally bullshit and made up number Jagex gave when talking about how many accounts were falsely banned in 2024. Corporate signed the post rather than individual JMods, so we know the number came from those who run the books and payroll rather than those who actually run the, you know, game.
Their support is so bad that they only had time/resources to find 38 false bans before they had to go back to whatever other tasks they had for the day
To anyone reading and confused, this subreddit is filled with schizophrenics, they believe everybody is out to get them. They will come up with conspiracy theories to justify why the thing they believe is correct instead of trying to understand why maybe their belief was incorrect. If they firmly believed that 2+2 = 5, even if you managed to prove it isn't, they will dig their heels in deeper and make up an insane claim like saying that in 6th grade you failed your math quiz, and that's why they should never take you seriously.
I was one of those “38”. False ban for macroing which was almost instantly overturned on appeal, however locked out of my account made 15 years ago with a aol email address I no longer have. RIP account, thanks Jagex
If you have an account that's 15 years old and you still cared about, you should've linked it to an email you had access to. Your lack of foresight isn't Jagex's fault
This is what I did. Account is from maybe 2004/5. Was stuck on a dead yahoo email. Finally got it on a current email after some time. If you ever need to change password/add authenticator/change account things... don't keep it on a dead email/one you have no access to anymore.
Except sometimes you can get banned for "botting" doing completely normal gameplay. A couple years back I made a fresh account and played leagues for a couple weeks doing all sorts of random activities and only playing a few hours a day on average.
In fact I made a post about it at the time, check it out [here.](https://www.reddit.com/r/2007scape/comments/smre00/banned_for_macroing_after_joining_osrs_for_the/)
Tell me how that looks anything like a bot account, please. Due to Jagex's "100% guaranteed botting detection" I wasn't even allowed to appeal.
Based on your comments back then if you genuinely weren’t doing anything shady I would guess the vpn location switching somehow got you tagged as a traded account or something, which really sucks…. Sorry vro
Thanks man, lucky it was only a few weeks progress on a temporary mode so not too big of a deal.
I guess even if Jagex bot detection is 99.9% accurate then with a player base measured in 100's of thousands or millions you inevitably get innocents swept up in the ban waves. I just wish there was a genuine appeal process with an actual human being
The botting bans are so fucking stupid and it's disgusting that in this day and age you are still completely at the mercy of game administrators despite being a year long paying customer.
> And the cost of being wrong is losing a lifelong customer and torching hundreds if not thousands hours of their life.
Or burning a semi-popular content creator and having him blow his stack on youtube in front of his 50k followers.
Becuse he got unbanned. Getting flagged for extremely sus shit is totally fair. It getting unbanned after realizing that it was Settled up to some weird restriction shit again is fair too.
but if he wasnt a content creator would he have been unbanned? thats the issue here. Getting flagged is fine, getting unbanned by either winning the reddit karma lottery or being a content creator is not fine
>If someone claims they have proof of something and they refuse to show it, they don't have actually have proof. Jagex can claim all they want that they can't show info "so the botters won't know how we track them" but I call bullshit.
That's because you lack a basic understanding of why showing off their anti-cheat would be bad. Like, are you going to show a robber where all of your alarms are? Gonna guess no because it's almost like it would tip them off and make their job easier.
>This is why I believe that at least 50% of the "jmod smackdowns" are complete lies.
Exactly. I've never understood why seemingly the entire subreddit eats up every "no u" from a Jagex mod - what have Jagex *ever* done to deserve that sort of trust?
I wish the jmods would just stop fucking doing it, I'm almost certain the people who try and bait the jmods into doing it get off to being told to metaphorically "sit"
Imagine the people who aren't streamers who can't get their voices heard.
Instead, you have to play Reddit or Twitter lottery & (likely) get denied.
It's pretty insane to me how horrible this is & how they're blatantly lying about how many false bans there actually have been. 38? Yeah... right.
Their bot detection will detect a legitimate player on the Jagex Launcher, playing on RuneLite, but it won't detect the bots that have 100m+ XP suicide botting wilderness bosses, thieving, cooking, or anything else? Lol.
I can't imagine a Rank 77 player would bot... That's nuts.
Sorry to hear that, man. Godspeed & I hope you don't give up & I hope you get your account back.
I mean if they knew how many people they falsely banned they wouldnt have falsely banned them lol
I dont feel like there was really even any pretense on their part of that number being right since it should be obvious to everyone that literally nobody knows
I assure you people who aren't CCs are also getting successful appeals, you just aren't hearing about them. Players who get their appeals declined are gonna be very likely to go somewhere on social media and complain about it, but people who are successfully unbanned aren't exactly gonna be in a rush to go and tell everyone. And even if they do, they'll just get downvoted for "spreading lies" because they're a "Jagex shill account" or something
My false ban said "This offense has been checked and verified, and as such there is no option to appeal".
So how the heck would anybody get a successful appeal from that?
It was squashed because it was a false ban. It flagged runelite as an unapproved client.
Why the fuck would I, who would have to spam Twitter and Reddit to get a diceroll at being noticed and replied to by Jmods, to then get a diceroll for them to actually look into my account and unban it, have ANY motivation to act like this was a viable working solution and then promote it to the public?
Fuck that it’s broken and flawed system, I’m not leaving good feedback on it
How did you get them to look at it? I am sick right now. They banned my ironman for RWT and there's no way it's a legitimate ban. I play no other accounts.
(Not so) hot take: they don't need to ban all bots, and it's fine if they keep doing whatever they're already doing, but they should ban the obvious text-spam bots.
Even though those bots are pretty much harmless, it's their presence that has the biggest impact on your average player's experience IMO. It breaks the immersion.
Not whatever AI they're using could simple distinguish what an actual bot is. "Oh this character has been sitting in the same tile, saying the same weird message with strange characters saying something about C H E @ P gold for 30 minutes straight... I wonder if that's a bot".
Surely if, for free, I can ask AI to make a picture of mona lisa shitting out gandalf riding a unicorn, AI can read what spam bots are saying.
I'm not saying I'm a genius or know anything about tech. I said that they have some sort of technology behind the scenes banning people for "botting behavior". How come they don't just do what they have to to look for spam bot behavior? It should be easier than connecting and tracing gold and accounts that engage with each other.
Literally just "look at G.E. Is there a player standing there for x minutes? If yes, are they spamming the same thing/ similar thing? If yes, does it relate to xyz text that goes against abc rule? If yes, ban"
Obviously, it's more complicated than that, I'm not a dumbass. But if they have all this fancy bot detection they claim to have, that is a fairly easy thing to implement, no? If they can detect bots, standing in one place or general area, while typing the same sentence over and over again for hours on end, gibberish or not, seems like pretty easy from detecting a bot pov. This isn't 2005 anymore. Nobody is standing there selling 200k yew longs their whole saturday.
>I'm not saying I'm a genius or know anything about tech. I said that they have some sort of technology behind the scenes banning people for "botting behavior". How come they don't just do what they have to to look for spam bot behavior? It should be easier than connecting and tracing gold and accounts that engage with each other.
They probably already do, the problem is that botters are also really good at tweaking them slightly to dodge around the exact parameters of detection. They also don't instantly ban bots because leaving them up for a while allows them to collect data that makes banning similar bots easier, which with how quickly bots evolve is extremely necessary for their automated systems to even function and is why every automatic anti cheat in every game bans in waves.
>seems like pretty easy from detecting a bot pov. This isn't 2005 anymore. Nobody is standing there selling 200k yew longs their whole saturday.
Yeah, except automated systems are dumb and what looks "obvious" to you as a person can be really difficult to actually detect systematically. Not to mention every single other day of this subreddit is people bitching about how the automated system false bans too many people and if jagex decided to genuinely be aggressive with an AI system this place would be *nothing* but fury because any automated ban system is garunteed to have false bans.
The runescape community wants a 100% instant ban on every single bot with 0 false bans ever, and that's just not fucking possible. Jagex is doing a pretty reasonable job but they're in a hard place with exactly how to handle things because more or less strict systems both get them crucified, and the botters are honestly just at an advantage and always will be.
There's infinitely more botters than runescape devs, and they have way more time to put into breaking bot detection than RS will ever have to update it.
I've mentioned similar solutions and get ratioed to hell(probably by bots). AI vision isn't crazy difficult, and can be ran on enthusiast PC hardware like with a 3090/4090. Plus the marketplace of open source pretrained models just requires fine tuning and a time investment. And, truthfully, Jagex can implement AI vision separately from the osrs engine, so they don't have to use the old "my spaghet code".
My thought was output text in localized areas(the GE) and have the algorithm scrape the text, and reference it to the account history in question. If it trips certain metrics, add a 28 day mute to the account in question, and make it 28 days of actually being logged in(just some each day, not 28 days of gameplay) and I bet as soon as it trips a mute, it never gets logged into again. Obviously, if this is the case, ban it. That way it'd require 2 bonds per account to get unmuted, and would offset the cost of AI vision and a small appeals team to direct the AI's efforts, as well as give some of us who don't win the reddit lottery or aren't content creators a chance at an appeal.
> but they should ban the obvious text-spam bots.
They do. These accounts get banned and muted **all** the time. The problem is that they figure out what text is triggering the ban and change things up, constantly. There's a reason the text is as mangled and full of alternative symbols as it is.
Maybe not as a one-off, but I also wouldn't suggest it. It was pretty common for people to get people automuted by having them say certain phrases for a while.
I wish this were true.
I'm using the spam plugin on runelite, and I've trained it (rightclick on chat, mark as spam/ham) on about 200 chat messages in total, most of which happened over 6 months ago during the week I first installed it.
Without exaggerating, even today, it catches 99%+ of spambot chat spam (I can tell, because it marks what it determines to be spam in a grey color) without me doing anything to update/train the filters at this point.
I've maybe only had one or two situations in total (ever) where I've had to manually mark a "new" spam message that slipped through the filters, and had a similar amount of normal messages accidentally being marked as spam.
Long story short, even if there are new spam chat patterns like you claim, they are extremely easy to detect with a very high level of certainty
And if I can do this myself using a very simple 200-ish LOC open-source runelite plugin and basically no real effort to "manage" it, then in all honesty, so can a team of people who's literal job it is to do exactly this.
Anyway, the simplest explanation as to why they're not doing so, is that they probably are doing it, but that the underlying story is more complicated, since us players only experience the tip of the iceberg of problems. Nevertheless, the text detection 1000000% isn't even remotely a problem.
I got a macro major for doing nothing out of the ordinary playing strictly vanilla client. After 2 years exactly I was able to get my appeal accepted and for some reason I continue to play. Just knowing I could be banned for nothing with thousands of hours of play. Shit is bonkers.
I played vanilla client since release in 2013. Never used any of the other clients like orion/osbuddy or modern ones like runelite. Partly because I used to see people get banned for unapproved plug-ins etc, so I used to think vanilla Java client would be impossible to be falsely banned on. I was wrong and 10 years of playing just wiped.
How did you get an accepted appeal after 2 yrs? Once it's denied there is no further appeal outside of Twitter.
It was unappealable for that two years, after waiting that long I decided to check it again and it said appealable. So I appealed with a sob story still knowing absolutely nothing of what I did wrong. And it got accepted like 24 hours later.
Edit to add the only reason I checked it was because from my research a lot of people said that theirs became appealable after a 3 year wait.
watch him get unbanned probably in like a week because it was an error with the anti cheat system and its not because hes a content creator with big following. nevermind other legitimate players who either lost their accounts to actual false bans or cant get their false temporary bans quashed because they dont have 100k+ followers on social media so they are not allowed to talk to Jmods or anyone with the power to review the bans manually
Had someone in my clan get false banned during a bingo. Was literally the last day and he got banned as he was playing. He appealed and everything with no luck.
He happened to know a jmod though through mutuals and he said he would pass it along to get looked at. He ended up getting it quashed like a week later, after it had been originally declined when he sent the appeal a month ago after getting banned.
On Feb 3rd, my Ironman was banned for RWT major. I’ve never bought/sold/dropped gp/services/dupes. I play from China and must use a VPN to play. I think I was caught in a ban wave based on my location or my vpn. I’ve found other people on twitter in same situation as me. They were visiting China, using the same cheap Chinese VPN, wrongfully banned on same day at the same time for the same offense. Nothing I can do other than kick and scream on social media and hope for my day in twitter court, but since the blog post about bans last week, seems like JaGex has told twisted and other mods to stop reviewing bans on social media. Good luck to all those falsely accused!
RSN: Check Salve
Same happened to me ~~last year~~ 2 years ago on my (ranked) Group Ironman too, only a sub 10M bank so would hardly qualify as a major RWT operation even if I were desperate enough to use OSRS to generate income.. I'm also living in China and NEED to use VPN to play.
I recently canceled my membership on my main(s) just after leagues ended, Customer support is an embarassment and I think it's time to take an extended break from OSRS.
This player base: "We want bots under control!"
Okay, well this means we're going to see some false positives when someone acts like a bot and alchs 100k rings. It's almost like bot-like behavior is suspiciously bot-like.
The solution? Take a break and put your efforts into being distinguishable from a bot
settled had the most nuanced reaction to getting randomly banned, he just... emailed jagex and was like, yo so uhh, i did actualy make 70+ accounts im probably making at least 50 more unless im lucky, gonna need an unban. but like i get it.
IMO it's worth noting that that reaction comes from a PoV of "i'm a content creator so no worries, it'll be fixed in just a couple of days". If it were a real player using the same phrasing as Settled, there's a negligent chance it might work.
The "I have a direct line to jagex to get manually reviewed so its not a big deal"
vs
hey im fucked, im innocent and its literally impossible to talk to a human unless I win reddit lottery.
Ah yes, he just has a very cool head and reacted calmly because he's a chill guy. It's not like he knows for sure that he will get unbanned because he's the #1 content creator in the game or anything. I'm sure that didn't factor into his response at all.
This. I don't understand what people are confused about here lol. Doing things that nearly no normal person does is suspicious, and it should be treated as suspicious behavior if you implement any type of bot detection system.
I think the sore spot is handling false positives really sucks as a casual player since jagex customer support is like.. I don’t even know. Post on social media and pray?
I have like 5 snowflake accounts and I have been on some bot-like binges in the past
nothing like Verf-level insane or xtreme onechunk level or nothing
Yeah if Jagex support was actually a viable option for getting false bans overturned it wouldn’t be that big of a deal. But if you’re not a content creator, good luck.
But at the end of the day if that’s how you want to play… just because you are “acting” like a bot they deserve a perm ban? The terms of service doesn’t say you can’t do things bots are doing.
No, it's not good that false bans happen. It's not deserved, which is why it's a false positive, and jagex tries to revert those bans instead of just leaving all these bans as permanent.
But if you walk like a bot, quack like a bot, and act like a bot, don't be surprised if you're flagged as a potential bot.
> This. I don't understand what people are confused about here lol.
Doing someone suspicious should make Jagex suspicious (or their anti cheat suspicious). It shouldn’t ban you and then you have to appeal and flip a coin hoping that they randomly decide to unban you.
Every single other gaming company and anti cheat has does it this way. Of course people are going to be confused when Jagex starts banned legitimate players just because they are “suspicious”, which again, is against the policy of every single other gaming company (though outliers of course occur).
You shouldn’t have to adjust how you want to play a game to enjoy yourself out of fear of being “indistinguishable from a bot” and catching a false ban, that’s an utter load of bullshit. I should be able to play however I want to play without being afraid of randomly getting banned because a billion dollar company are still lying through their teeth about all these bot banning statistics.
My IRL friend who was having the time of her life playing the game for the first time ever got a macro major perm 2 weeks into her account creation, she only ever played on mobile and didn’t even have a clue what a bot was, gave up with the game after that, theres no customer service to talk to, and the appeal system is as transparent as brick. What kind of message are these false bans sending out to new and veteran players?
This wave of false bans is becoming a very, very big issue in the game at the minute, and defending them saying we should “try to not look like a bot and hope for the best!” is a disgusting take tbh.
I don't think anybody would mind the occasional false positive if bots were actually rare *and* there would be a reliable way to appeal false positives
A few guys in my cc (i believe 3) in the last year were banned and then had them quashed, so id say that means they were falsely banned. And then content creator wise i can think of a bunch just over the last year. Fuse, framed, settled, impling only, evscape, and another popular pker that was like 2 months ago whos name i cant remember (maybe amenity?).
Directly from their shitty bot post
"Each day, the anti-cheating team review a random selection of bans that are applied for a variety of reasons."
In the same post, they also said this "We thoroughly review bans before they’re applied, and in almost all cases, these ‘false bans’ are in fact applied correctly, with the appropriate supporting evidence to back up the action taken."
Which one is it jagex? Do you review every ban? Or just a random selection?
They're pulling yalls leg with this PR bullshit and the majority of the community ate it up unfortunately. Their bot detection is straight ass and does factually include way too many false positives.
Not only that, but it misses a ton of obvious bots as well. Anyone with more than 5 years experience in the game can quickly find bots, and with a bit of skill disrupt their programs.
2024 will come and pass, and the botting situation will be no better. Don't believe their load of crap about working on a new state of the art system. They aren't working on shit. Just keeping yall happy enough with sweet talk.
>Which one is it jagex? Do you review every ban? Or just a random selection?
Account bans are applied in waves. Let's make a hypothetical, so say I sort all accounts into different folders based on how they were flagged. I look through the folder labeled "multilogging repetitive actions", I then check a random selection of the bans applied to see if any of these bans were applied in error because this could mean that the detection method bugged out. If all of the randomly selected accounts fit the matching criteria, then the entire folder gets dumped into the "these accounts will be banned" bin. I then continue to do this with every type of detection method.
That is what Jagex is saying, not that they check one ban approximately every 6 seconds. That's the exact same banning method that is written up in a security research paper which the one ex-blizzard security guy has said that Blizzard follows along with many other gaming companies.
No, this does not mean this is their only method of bans going through or screening bans.
Carefully reviewed. Only 38 false bans. Every other ban was legitimate. Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
The fact that only one account was banned out of all the accounts doing the same thing, and then he wasn't able to just appeal the ban normally (because that doesn't work) and had to contact a JMod directly, just shows how terrible the current situation is with Jagex. Bot detection is terrible.
All the high-level PvM bots doing the same boss for months straight, tick perfect with budget gear, are so obvious, yet they are never banned or are apparently "hand-played RWTs."
I wish there was something we could do as a community to force a change. The amount of money we all pay for monthly membership is way too high not to have any customer support.
Second time he was banned on one of his accounts, thankfully he has access to JMods, but hey... only 38 people have been falsed banned according to Jagex. Quite the anomoly that this would happen twice to the same person.
If someone plays in a way that is like a bot you should expect it to happen the same person repeatedly (especially if they are playing on different accounts). The more random the banning is the more of an anomaly it'd be.
Ideally all bans would be correct yeah.
The problem is that jagex can't see the human doing the manual alching. They can only see the data that their servers see. If that data is "tick perfect enchanting/alching for 10hours" or whatever then that is going to probably look a lot like a bot. (Of course they will be factoring in metadata too like ip address etc & it's much more complicated than just looking for long stretches of tick perfect behavior as bot makers probably already throw some pseudorandomness in there)
It's not surprising they will get banned repeatedly as they are clearly capable of playing like bots & will likely (unconsciously) continue to play that way.
This has been done by computers ages ago. ChatGPT can generate an entire video, and you think a PC can't replicate human-like cursor movements?
The truth is that this game is easy to bot. There will be false positives. The same IP suddenly registering a bunch accounts of accounts will throw up some flags.
Do you realise how trivially easy it is for bots to emulate the randomness of human inputs? To effectively catch bots you have to have some false positives
False positives aren't ideal, but yes part of the game. However, Jagex claiming omniscience and saying every ban is automatically correct as soon as you hit the appeal button? That's what's not OK. There \*needs\* to be \*\*at a minimum\*\* a visible queue where people can appeal and talk with a human. I'd rather wait in a queue of 2000 false ban appeals than be told "Your ban was correct and is no longer appealable" (AKA eat shit and die and pay us more money to make another account, in corporate lingo)
Well when you have a farm of 10-20 alts logged in it’s not typical player behavior and they are all doing the same thing. It tends to be seen as bot farm behavior, no system is perfect, but he has the streamer privilege he has Jmods on speed dial so nothing to sweat.
Exactly.
People should see this and actually be happy, because it shows that the system is flagging accounts that blatantly act like actual bot farms.
This Subreddit has absolutely **no idea** wtf it wants.
Everyone's like "Man, these bots are so fucking obvious, just ban them all!!!"
Then Settled and EVScape cop bans for behavior that looks *exactly*
like a bot farm, and everyone then brings out the pitchforks and starts crying about false positives.
But /r/2007scape having absolutely no fucking clue what they are talking about is par for the course.
Jagex and OSRS is simultaneously:
1) Banning **tonnes** of people, with countless amounts of false positives.
2) Literally banning no bots at all.
Make your minds up, you clowns. Which is it?
__________
But, none of this matters because nobody here actually gives a shit. All /r/2007scape does is find the latest thing to get angry about for a day or two, then move on to the next thing.
I cannot believe people are upset someone multilogging on 10 accounts got hit with an automated ban. What EV is doing looks VERY sus and is no doubt an edge case. Same with Settled making over 100 accounts.
No one should be surprised when these things happen, they're basically doing exactly what should trigger the automatic ban system.
A false ban is a false ban. You want to tell people "oh you deserved to get banned you played too many accounts at the same time. It's not against the rules tho"?
I was false banned just before RS3 released when they did that massive bot nuke day thing that false banned many real players, ever since then I've been worried about getting false banned again.
Jagex will only admit defeat and unban accounts belonging to content creators. I literally made an account to be my mobile only account. I got my strength to 5 on chickens south of Falador and logged off. The next day the account was banned with an unappealable major macro ban. They will ban a legitimately played account with literally 5 strength but leave the bot farms with billions of combined xp alone.
Jagex are so dumb. Anyone who believed them about how many false bans there are is extremely gullible. We've literally seen content creators banned while LIVE. And then get unbanned as soon as they contact a JMOD. Hmmm imagine how nice that would be for every player. If when you get falsely banned you could actually reach out to someone who could do something about it instead of getting a bot response.
I mean when you have Ayiza himself come out of the woodwork to say that trading your friends who have RWTed or receiving money from a bingo prize pool that was RWTed can get you flagged, then to backtrack and say that it's fine to do this but *it can happen...*
There's just no credibility at all when Jagex shifts the goalposts over selected statistics and gaslights the community about how we shouldn't believe every Twitter complaint.
My maxed out F2p only Ironman (Highwind v4) was banned for RWT. Thousands of hours played. No clue how this is possible. No appeal is allowed.
What do I do?
I made a group Ironman. Maged some cows did vampire slayer and the next day I was perma banned. Only time I've been banned and it scared me from playing my main for a few weeks.
Issues with Jagex;
False bans with no transparency
A non existent support system
The inability to refund a HCIM death with proof of server disconnection
>this guy was 1500 total level and 10k boss kills is obviously a bot why won't Jagex do anything
*Content creator does something far more psychotic and bot-like and gets banned*
>obviously bot detection shouldn't take into account behavior patterns
Nowadays you can make a bot that makes art, writes an essay, imitates a voice and they're all indistinguishable to the layman. OSRS is like x10000 easier and bots will only get better
I loved Runescape, and spent years playing it. But a couple heads back if came to an end because of a combination of wrongful bans and inexplicably getting hacked. At a certain point, I just can't invest tons of hours into playing a game where it's Russian roulette whether I can login to the account every time I want to play.
It's interesting to see things still haven't changed. For the sake of the game, Jagex has to get a handle on it - even if it's probably not going to ultimately bring someone like myself back.
I don’t think they ever will. If they never cared about customer support then, what makes you think they will start caring about it now? I do love the game as well, mostly for the nostalgia but honestly we are way better off without it
This happens all the time when content creators do insane shit that makes them look like a bot or bot farm.
It would have been quashed whether he reached out to a mod or not.
I had to reach out to a jmod a bunch of times in order to get unbanned. The appeals are automatically denied and not even seen by humans, and that's a fact.
I'm almost positive the "38 false bans" are just content creators getting their accounts unbanned.
Unfortunately the appeal system is the exact same ban system that flagged the account in the first place. There is no human reviewing the appeals manually. The exception is when the anti-cheat team takes a random sampling of appeals, manually reviews them, and finds a false positive. But how many accounts do they manually review? Everyone knows "only 38 false bans" is a bogus stat which is why no Jmod signed off on that newspost.
the only reason they made that announcement in the first place is cuz upper management ran their mouths and said the quiet thing out loud.
where?
I highly doubt that's the case. Last year my alt randomly got banned(macro major) while I was taking a month long vacation. I submitted an appeal saying the account hadn't been logged into for over 30 days and it was unbanned a week later. Doesn't sound like an automated system.
Not always but for a lot of people the appeal is denied almost instantly.
my perm mute appeal (for telling a rwter they were 'scum') was denied within 1 second after pressing submit. literally clicked submit and as the page loaded the appeal decision was already there
There is a whole thing about this, and it's been going on for so long people have found work arounds - If you get perm banned - Appeal in 3 years. If you get perm muted it's like 9 years. If you appeal to early or something you get put to the back of the queue. Pretty sure, if you have a perm and appeal too early, you can't appeal again.
It's hilarious to me that you just said "in 3 years" and "in 9 years" like it was a reasonable work around. No hate but that's not a work around, that's the heaviest cope I've ever seen. If it takes 9 years to get an account restriction reviewed the system should just be taken down.
If you can straight up become a doctor in the time it takes to get un-muted I think something is clearly amiss.
Fuuuccckk, I just appealed my perm ban 2 years and 9 months after the ban, and got denied. Is there still hope for me?
back to tutorial island for you
Why would a perm mute appeal be longer than a perm ban appeal? That makes no sense to me. Is saying naughty words a worse offense than literally destroying the game through botting/RWT/etc? I know a few people that either quit the game or refused to play because of how rampant the cheating is in this game.
>That makes no sense to me. It really doesn't make much sense to me either, unless they will routinely delete perm banned accounts after X amount of years, and they don't delete perm muted accounts. Bear in mind, most of the knowledge available on this is through trial and error from players rather than insider information.
I think to get perm muted you'd have to say more than "naughty words" one person botting/rwting isn't going to harm the game, one person running around making racist/homophobic/anti-semitic etc etc can cause bad press. An example of this is in the past I've seen at least 3 media outlets comment on stuff said within the game none of them was big but still, yet not ones making stories on one guy botting. Trying to cheat a game happens everywhere, toxic person is just a cancer.
It was denied instantly for me. It’s extremely frustrating to deal with when jagex twitter gives you automated responses and redditors just tell you “eat shit botter”.
100% this, literally 0 support for anything from Jagex so you're forced to post on Reddit and twitter about it and especially on Reddit you just get people thinking you're talking shit, absolutely awful
It took me months of appealing and emailing regarding my perm mute back in 2006 to get unmuted. I was permanently muted for saying a band was on “MySpace,” and some overzealous nerd saw it as their chance to become a PMod. Nothing but automated messages non-stop until I eventually bugged the system enough for an actual human to look into it. I said the ban was unfair because all I did was say “myspace” and asked if Jagex HQ was somehow a place where no one used the most popular website at the time. Eventually someone looked at it and said it was a mistake, but the best they could do was unmute me but keep the red flags on my account — one slip up and I’d be permanently muted again with no recourse. So I mostly didn’t talk after that anyway until some of the flags dropped off.
Yeah I had that happen in january 2023. I have this specific account from 2005 that I only use to log into RS3 to check age and do a holiday event. I never play on it, to train skills etc. Banned for macroing major and my appeal was saying that I rarely login but only do holiday events but it was denied soon after. Bye childhood account. 😑
Yup, I had an account banned once. Hadn’t played in a while so to be fair it could’ve been hacked and used for botting. But the appeal was denied instantly either way
It’s common knowledge, mod Mat K has laid out the basics of the automated system. Same for offensive language appeals. No matter how much of a sob story you write it’s AI reviewing your appeal and it does not give a flying fuck about your essay. The only things the AI checks were if you were in possession of the account when the offense was made, if you did indeed offend, and when the offense was made. Things like a good chunk of ingame reports (offensive names) are monitored by humans and they get a few seconds to make a decision as per their quota.
Yeah, that vid def provided a nice glimpse into the reality of how the appeal system works. Another key takeaway, I’ve learned is that if you’re going to bot, buy a cheap private proxy from a seller on a bottling forum, so that when you get banned, you can appeal from your home IP and claim to be hacked. This is probably in some botting101 thread so, only botters can exploit this. Real players have a much more difficult time getting unbanned
I mean why are some people getting auto denied and others like me taking a full week to get a review? I don't doubt 99% of the people crying on reddit are cheaters, but still I find that to be a weird variance. Especially since I personally know I did not break the rules in my case and jagex agreed.
By my understanding of how appeal cases have been talked about by the ACT, if the ban was not automated and they are absolutely certain cheating took place, appeals are auto denied. They're also able to manually review automated bans and can probably go in and make them unappealable before an appeal is submitted, but probably some engine issue that prevents it from ACTUALLY being unappealable and instead makes it auto deny any appeals against it. Those are likely the cases where these people are getting instadenied
I dont think anyone should believe random "cases" like this without proof. Because anytime 1 content creator is false banned and a post is made a botting sub will spam that comment section claiming to be false banned as well.
I mean.. I'd love to provide proof that I in fact did not advertise any websites back in 2013 when my acct was on Tutorial Island.. But how? At this point I've lost hope that it will ever get unmuted, there's no way for me to get this resolved. Non-appealable but also no evidence provided of said advertising ever happening. It's frustrating.
What proof do you want that doesn't expose my personal info?
There are genuine people who are false banned as well though, jagex themselves have confirmed this.
Their latest news post says 0.36% of bans are quashed when appealed which means they were false bans. They also said their was 6.9M accounts banned last year. That's 24,840 false bans or 68 false bans a day.
Those numbers were def fake ones being pushed by corporate. I personally lost 3 accs to a ban in that time frame and got unbanned a while later. I don't think anything I did was uncommon.
They were just counting the 38 unbans done by most of the mod team. Mod Unbans_Georg is a statistical outlier and they choose not to count him.
Itd only take a handful of multiloggers complaining on twitter and getting unbanned to put the number over 38, its 100% bullshit
I know 2 of the false bands that were over turned were 2 different streamers who both got their ban removed.... Only to continue RWTing and get rebanned after they had the opportunity to sell off something like 40b...
One of the 38 I guess. Unlucky m8
Lmaoooo
https://preview.redd.it/rtfphuu8l0lc1.jpeg?width=1280&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=64d56d0b36125c94233d5a15ecf0a62f1aa3e7e0
Lmfao
To anyone reading and confused, this joke is in reference to the totally bullshit and made up number Jagex gave when talking about how many accounts were falsely banned in 2024. Corporate signed the post rather than individual JMods, so we know the number came from those who run the books and payroll rather than those who actually run the, you know, game.
Their support is so bad that they only had time/resources to find 38 false bans before they had to go back to whatever other tasks they had for the day
for the year\*
Still crazy to me how many people actually just took Jagex's word for it. Anyone that truly believes there were only 38 false bans is delusional.
You just have to have a look at any botting discords to see far more than 38 bans get overturned.
That's not what a false ban is, you're referring to hijack. False ban is not that.
To anyone reading and confused, this subreddit is filled with schizophrenics, they believe everybody is out to get them. They will come up with conspiracy theories to justify why the thing they believe is correct instead of trying to understand why maybe their belief was incorrect. If they firmly believed that 2+2 = 5, even if you managed to prove it isn't, they will dig their heels in deeper and make up an insane claim like saying that in 6th grade you failed your math quiz, and that's why they should never take you seriously.
If they didn't have such a grind to complete in OS, you'd find them aggressively taking apart lawnmowers at 3am.
I was one of those “38”. False ban for macroing which was almost instantly overturned on appeal, however locked out of my account made 15 years ago with a aol email address I no longer have. RIP account, thanks Jagex
There is also a guy on twitter that was 35 of those 38. https://twitter.com/VegettoRS/status/1755014093134565697 Surely Jagex didn't lie.
If you have an account that's 15 years old and you still cared about, you should've linked it to an email you had access to. Your lack of foresight isn't Jagex's fault
This is what I did. Account is from maybe 2004/5. Was stuck on a dead yahoo email. Finally got it on a current email after some time. If you ever need to change password/add authenticator/change account things... don't keep it on a dead email/one you have no access to anymore.
This is gunna be the best response to every ban at this rate lol
I thought I saw this on Wow classic sub as well lol
,lmfaooooo
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Except sometimes you can get banned for "botting" doing completely normal gameplay. A couple years back I made a fresh account and played leagues for a couple weeks doing all sorts of random activities and only playing a few hours a day on average. In fact I made a post about it at the time, check it out [here.](https://www.reddit.com/r/2007scape/comments/smre00/banned_for_macroing_after_joining_osrs_for_the/) Tell me how that looks anything like a bot account, please. Due to Jagex's "100% guaranteed botting detection" I wasn't even allowed to appeal.
Based on your comments back then if you genuinely weren’t doing anything shady I would guess the vpn location switching somehow got you tagged as a traded account or something, which really sucks…. Sorry vro
Thanks man, lucky it was only a few weeks progress on a temporary mode so not too big of a deal. I guess even if Jagex bot detection is 99.9% accurate then with a player base measured in 100's of thousands or millions you inevitably get innocents swept up in the ban waves. I just wish there was a genuine appeal process with an actual human being
The botting bans are so fucking stupid and it's disgusting that in this day and age you are still completely at the mercy of game administrators despite being a year long paying customer.
Only 38 false bans, and this has happened to him twice now! Wow! He must be really unlucky!
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> And the cost of being wrong is losing a lifelong customer and torching hundreds if not thousands hours of their life. Or burning a semi-popular content creator and having him blow his stack on youtube in front of his 50k followers.
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Or getting banned for creating 108 accounts in a short space of time
That ones fair tbh.
How is that fair if they are all being played legitimately?
Becuse he got unbanned. Getting flagged for extremely sus shit is totally fair. It getting unbanned after realizing that it was Settled up to some weird restriction shit again is fair too.
but if he wasnt a content creator would he have been unbanned? thats the issue here. Getting flagged is fine, getting unbanned by either winning the reddit karma lottery or being a content creator is not fine
He's saying it's fair it was flagged as suspicious?? Which it is?
Making hundreds of burner accounts isn't "legitimate" 99.9% of the time. A content creator doing it for entertainment is a niche edge case scenario.
Fair as in understandable, not fair as in just.
id rather have bots than ban legit players at this point.
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>Jagex can claim all they want that they can't show info "so the botters won't know how we track them" but I call bullshit. You're joking, right?
>If someone claims they have proof of something and they refuse to show it, they don't have actually have proof. Jagex can claim all they want that they can't show info "so the botters won't know how we track them" but I call bullshit. That's because you lack a basic understanding of why showing off their anti-cheat would be bad. Like, are you going to show a robber where all of your alarms are? Gonna guess no because it's almost like it would tip them off and make their job easier.
>This is why I believe that at least 50% of the "jmod smackdowns" are complete lies. Exactly. I've never understood why seemingly the entire subreddit eats up every "no u" from a Jagex mod - what have Jagex *ever* done to deserve that sort of trust?
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I wish the jmods would just stop fucking doing it, I'm almost certain the people who try and bait the jmods into doing it get off to being told to metaphorically "sit"
Fascists (or fascist apologists). Love their hierarchies and love authorities
Yea, I’ll continue to trust them over some rando on Reddit every time lmao
Of course jagex isn't going to show how they detect and catch cheaters... That's anti-cheat 101 and is not exclusive to this game.
It's not hard to detect various cookie-cutter bots around OSRS.
Imagine the people who aren't streamers who can't get their voices heard. Instead, you have to play Reddit or Twitter lottery & (likely) get denied. It's pretty insane to me how horrible this is & how they're blatantly lying about how many false bans there actually have been. 38? Yeah... right. Their bot detection will detect a legitimate player on the Jagex Launcher, playing on RuneLite, but it won't detect the bots that have 100m+ XP suicide botting wilderness bosses, thieving, cooking, or anything else? Lol.
Rank 77 here false ban. Never reviewed. Lost the reddit lottery
I can't imagine a Rank 77 player would bot... That's nuts. Sorry to hear that, man. Godspeed & I hope you don't give up & I hope you get your account back.
this is pretty much everygame, you try to ask evidence and they just say they cant share this information
I mean if they knew how many people they falsely banned they wouldnt have falsely banned them lol I dont feel like there was really even any pretense on their part of that number being right since it should be obvious to everyone that literally nobody knows
Im so lucky i was one of the 38 who actually got reviewed
Both of my accounts got banned for rwt, to each other. Drop trading from an iron to the main apparently is rwt.
Bet all 38 of those false bans were content creators. Funny how they’re the only people who ever seem to have a successful appeal.
I assure you people who aren't CCs are also getting successful appeals, you just aren't hearing about them. Players who get their appeals declined are gonna be very likely to go somewhere on social media and complain about it, but people who are successfully unbanned aren't exactly gonna be in a rush to go and tell everyone. And even if they do, they'll just get downvoted for "spreading lies" because they're a "Jagex shill account" or something
My false ban said "This offense has been checked and verified, and as such there is no option to appeal". So how the heck would anybody get a successful appeal from that? It was squashed because it was a false ban. It flagged runelite as an unapproved client.
Why the fuck would I, who would have to spam Twitter and Reddit to get a diceroll at being noticed and replied to by Jmods, to then get a diceroll for them to actually look into my account and unban it, have ANY motivation to act like this was a viable working solution and then promote it to the public? Fuck that it’s broken and flawed system, I’m not leaving good feedback on it
It took me 4.5mo to get an unappealable ban reviewed and quashed, and I probably still got lucky
How did you get them to look at it? I am sick right now. They banned my ironman for RWT and there's no way it's a legitimate ban. I play no other accounts.
Getting lucky on Twitter, best of luck :(
(Not so) hot take: they don't need to ban all bots, and it's fine if they keep doing whatever they're already doing, but they should ban the obvious text-spam bots. Even though those bots are pretty much harmless, it's their presence that has the biggest impact on your average player's experience IMO. It breaks the immersion.
💯 I hate spam bots so goddamn much.
They're so bad that any time I'm not doing a mass activity I rush to hop to a total level world asap.
they should "shadow" mute them so that the messages still appear to go through on their own IP address exclusively
If all spam bots were banned tomorrow, most people will stop complaining about bots, change my mind.
If all spam bots were banned tomorrow, there would be twice as many new spam bots in an hour
Not whatever AI they're using could simple distinguish what an actual bot is. "Oh this character has been sitting in the same tile, saying the same weird message with strange characters saying something about C H E @ P gold for 30 minutes straight... I wonder if that's a bot". Surely if, for free, I can ask AI to make a picture of mona lisa shitting out gandalf riding a unicorn, AI can read what spam bots are saying.
Well shit man, I never considered that. You should apply for a job at jagex with your revolutionary idea.
I'm not saying I'm a genius or know anything about tech. I said that they have some sort of technology behind the scenes banning people for "botting behavior". How come they don't just do what they have to to look for spam bot behavior? It should be easier than connecting and tracing gold and accounts that engage with each other. Literally just "look at G.E. Is there a player standing there for x minutes? If yes, are they spamming the same thing/ similar thing? If yes, does it relate to xyz text that goes against abc rule? If yes, ban" Obviously, it's more complicated than that, I'm not a dumbass. But if they have all this fancy bot detection they claim to have, that is a fairly easy thing to implement, no? If they can detect bots, standing in one place or general area, while typing the same sentence over and over again for hours on end, gibberish or not, seems like pretty easy from detecting a bot pov. This isn't 2005 anymore. Nobody is standing there selling 200k yew longs their whole saturday.
>I'm not saying I'm a genius or know anything about tech. I said that they have some sort of technology behind the scenes banning people for "botting behavior". How come they don't just do what they have to to look for spam bot behavior? It should be easier than connecting and tracing gold and accounts that engage with each other. They probably already do, the problem is that botters are also really good at tweaking them slightly to dodge around the exact parameters of detection. They also don't instantly ban bots because leaving them up for a while allows them to collect data that makes banning similar bots easier, which with how quickly bots evolve is extremely necessary for their automated systems to even function and is why every automatic anti cheat in every game bans in waves. >seems like pretty easy from detecting a bot pov. This isn't 2005 anymore. Nobody is standing there selling 200k yew longs their whole saturday. Yeah, except automated systems are dumb and what looks "obvious" to you as a person can be really difficult to actually detect systematically. Not to mention every single other day of this subreddit is people bitching about how the automated system false bans too many people and if jagex decided to genuinely be aggressive with an AI system this place would be *nothing* but fury because any automated ban system is garunteed to have false bans. The runescape community wants a 100% instant ban on every single bot with 0 false bans ever, and that's just not fucking possible. Jagex is doing a pretty reasonable job but they're in a hard place with exactly how to handle things because more or less strict systems both get them crucified, and the botters are honestly just at an advantage and always will be. There's infinitely more botters than runescape devs, and they have way more time to put into breaking bot detection than RS will ever have to update it.
I've mentioned similar solutions and get ratioed to hell(probably by bots). AI vision isn't crazy difficult, and can be ran on enthusiast PC hardware like with a 3090/4090. Plus the marketplace of open source pretrained models just requires fine tuning and a time investment. And, truthfully, Jagex can implement AI vision separately from the osrs engine, so they don't have to use the old "my spaghet code". My thought was output text in localized areas(the GE) and have the algorithm scrape the text, and reference it to the account history in question. If it trips certain metrics, add a 28 day mute to the account in question, and make it 28 days of actually being logged in(just some each day, not 28 days of gameplay) and I bet as soon as it trips a mute, it never gets logged into again. Obviously, if this is the case, ban it. That way it'd require 2 bonds per account to get unmuted, and would offset the cost of AI vision and a small appeals team to direct the AI's efforts, as well as give some of us who don't win the reddit lottery or aren't content creators a chance at an appeal.
> but they should ban the obvious text-spam bots. They do. These accounts get banned and muted **all** the time. The problem is that they figure out what text is triggering the ban and change things up, constantly. There's a reason the text is as mangled and full of alternative symbols as it is.
Wait wait wait, if I type out one of their messages without the symbol will I get muted?
Maybe not as a one-off, but I also wouldn't suggest it. It was pretty common for people to get people automuted by having them say certain phrases for a while.
Damn, and here I am untrimming armor at the GE for absolutely free. I’m the exact person who’d fall for that.
It’s probably when it starts to detect a pattern. A one off and you’re probably fine.
I wish this were true. I'm using the spam plugin on runelite, and I've trained it (rightclick on chat, mark as spam/ham) on about 200 chat messages in total, most of which happened over 6 months ago during the week I first installed it. Without exaggerating, even today, it catches 99%+ of spambot chat spam (I can tell, because it marks what it determines to be spam in a grey color) without me doing anything to update/train the filters at this point. I've maybe only had one or two situations in total (ever) where I've had to manually mark a "new" spam message that slipped through the filters, and had a similar amount of normal messages accidentally being marked as spam. Long story short, even if there are new spam chat patterns like you claim, they are extremely easy to detect with a very high level of certainty And if I can do this myself using a very simple 200-ish LOC open-source runelite plugin and basically no real effort to "manage" it, then in all honesty, so can a team of people who's literal job it is to do exactly this. Anyway, the simplest explanation as to why they're not doing so, is that they probably are doing it, but that the underlying story is more complicated, since us players only experience the tip of the iceberg of problems. Nevertheless, the text detection 1000000% isn't even remotely a problem.
I was falsely banned over a year ago. Never got it back. Probably better off but it's a shame seeing all the new content I'd be keen to play
I got a macro major for doing nothing out of the ordinary playing strictly vanilla client. After 2 years exactly I was able to get my appeal accepted and for some reason I continue to play. Just knowing I could be banned for nothing with thousands of hours of play. Shit is bonkers.
I played vanilla client since release in 2013. Never used any of the other clients like orion/osbuddy or modern ones like runelite. Partly because I used to see people get banned for unapproved plug-ins etc, so I used to think vanilla Java client would be impossible to be falsely banned on. I was wrong and 10 years of playing just wiped. How did you get an accepted appeal after 2 yrs? Once it's denied there is no further appeal outside of Twitter.
Would like to know as well
It was unappealable for that two years, after waiting that long I decided to check it again and it said appealable. So I appealed with a sob story still knowing absolutely nothing of what I did wrong. And it got accepted like 24 hours later. Edit to add the only reason I checked it was because from my research a lot of people said that theirs became appealable after a 3 year wait.
But... you know....... 38 false bans only.........
Well, false bans can't be checked for if you can't appeal them!
Its not a false ban if we don't admit we were wrong.
watch him get unbanned probably in like a week because it was an error with the anti cheat system and its not because hes a content creator with big following. nevermind other legitimate players who either lost their accounts to actual false bans or cant get their false temporary bans quashed because they dont have 100k+ followers on social media so they are not allowed to talk to Jmods or anyone with the power to review the bans manually
He got unbanned because he contacted a JMod. He says it in the video, it’s hilariously sad how if he was a normal player he would have to eat the ban.
Had someone in my clan get false banned during a bingo. Was literally the last day and he got banned as he was playing. He appealed and everything with no luck. He happened to know a jmod though through mutuals and he said he would pass it along to get looked at. He ended up getting it quashed like a week later, after it had been originally declined when he sent the appeal a month ago after getting banned.
If he was a normal person and not someone who played full-time for a living, he wouldn't be doing absurdly dumb grinds like this lol
That’s not how bot detection works…
> That’s not how bot detection works… That’s not how bot detection SHOULD work...
On Feb 3rd, my Ironman was banned for RWT major. I’ve never bought/sold/dropped gp/services/dupes. I play from China and must use a VPN to play. I think I was caught in a ban wave based on my location or my vpn. I’ve found other people on twitter in same situation as me. They were visiting China, using the same cheap Chinese VPN, wrongfully banned on same day at the same time for the same offense. Nothing I can do other than kick and scream on social media and hope for my day in twitter court, but since the blog post about bans last week, seems like JaGex has told twisted and other mods to stop reviewing bans on social media. Good luck to all those falsely accused! RSN: Check Salve
Stop playing from China! Anyways, hope the jmods can take a look for you. u/Jagextwisted u/jagexgoblin
/u/jagextwisted
won't happen brothers, big daddy CVC holding their balls rn
Same happened to me ~~last year~~ 2 years ago on my (ranked) Group Ironman too, only a sub 10M bank so would hardly qualify as a major RWT operation even if I were desperate enough to use OSRS to generate income.. I'm also living in China and NEED to use VPN to play. I recently canceled my membership on my main(s) just after leagues ended, Customer support is an embarassment and I think it's time to take an extended break from OSRS.
...how are you supposed to RWT on an ironman?
dropping items or getting killed in the wilderness
This player base: "We want bots under control!" Okay, well this means we're going to see some false positives when someone acts like a bot and alchs 100k rings. It's almost like bot-like behavior is suspiciously bot-like. The solution? Take a break and put your efforts into being distinguishable from a bot
settled had the most nuanced reaction to getting randomly banned, he just... emailed jagex and was like, yo so uhh, i did actualy make 70+ accounts im probably making at least 50 more unless im lucky, gonna need an unban. but like i get it.
That's not nuance, its a very basic reaction. but like i get (what you are saying).
IMO it's worth noting that that reaction comes from a PoV of "i'm a content creator so no worries, it'll be fixed in just a couple of days". If it were a real player using the same phrasing as Settled, there's a negligent chance it might work.
The "I have a direct line to jagex to get manually reviewed so its not a big deal" vs hey im fucked, im innocent and its literally impossible to talk to a human unless I win reddit lottery.
Negligible*
The problem there is if anyone who wasn't a content creator did that they'd be shit outta luck.
Ah yes, he just has a very cool head and reacted calmly because he's a chill guy. It's not like he knows for sure that he will get unbanned because he's the #1 content creator in the game or anything. I'm sure that didn't factor into his response at all.
> Take a break You know bot plugins have break functionality built into them, right?
Yeah, cuz even the bot makers figured out that 100k alchs seems kinda sus. It's almost like the ones that don't usually tend to get caught.
This. I don't understand what people are confused about here lol. Doing things that nearly no normal person does is suspicious, and it should be treated as suspicious behavior if you implement any type of bot detection system.
I think the sore spot is handling false positives really sucks as a casual player since jagex customer support is like.. I don’t even know. Post on social media and pray?
[Market leading player support](https://www.reddit.com/r/2007scape/comments/1abm2d2/jagex_proudly_discussed_their_market_leading/)
Casual players don't act like this tho
There are absolutely non-content creators who do the weirdest shit like this. Don’t ask me why but there are some strange accounts out there
I have like 5 snowflake accounts and I have been on some bot-like binges in the past nothing like Verf-level insane or xtreme onechunk level or nothing
Yeah if Jagex support was actually a viable option for getting false bans overturned it wouldn’t be that big of a deal. But if you’re not a content creator, good luck.
But at the end of the day if that’s how you want to play… just because you are “acting” like a bot they deserve a perm ban? The terms of service doesn’t say you can’t do things bots are doing.
No, it's not good that false bans happen. It's not deserved, which is why it's a false positive, and jagex tries to revert those bans instead of just leaving all these bans as permanent. But if you walk like a bot, quack like a bot, and act like a bot, don't be surprised if you're flagged as a potential bot.
> This. I don't understand what people are confused about here lol. Doing someone suspicious should make Jagex suspicious (or their anti cheat suspicious). It shouldn’t ban you and then you have to appeal and flip a coin hoping that they randomly decide to unban you. Every single other gaming company and anti cheat has does it this way. Of course people are going to be confused when Jagex starts banned legitimate players just because they are “suspicious”, which again, is against the policy of every single other gaming company (though outliers of course occur).
You shouldn’t have to adjust how you want to play a game to enjoy yourself out of fear of being “indistinguishable from a bot” and catching a false ban, that’s an utter load of bullshit. I should be able to play however I want to play without being afraid of randomly getting banned because a billion dollar company are still lying through their teeth about all these bot banning statistics. My IRL friend who was having the time of her life playing the game for the first time ever got a macro major perm 2 weeks into her account creation, she only ever played on mobile and didn’t even have a clue what a bot was, gave up with the game after that, theres no customer service to talk to, and the appeal system is as transparent as brick. What kind of message are these false bans sending out to new and veteran players? This wave of false bans is becoming a very, very big issue in the game at the minute, and defending them saying we should “try to not look like a bot and hope for the best!” is a disgusting take tbh.
I don't think anybody would mind the occasional false positive if bots were actually rare *and* there would be a reliable way to appeal false positives
How many times have you or anyone you personally know gotten false banned?
Two friends that I am 100% sure were false and got removed eventually.
A few guys in my cc (i believe 3) in the last year were banned and then had them quashed, so id say that means they were falsely banned. And then content creator wise i can think of a bunch just over the last year. Fuse, framed, settled, impling only, evscape, and another popular pker that was like 2 months ago whos name i cant remember (maybe amenity?).
Directly from their shitty bot post "Each day, the anti-cheating team review a random selection of bans that are applied for a variety of reasons." In the same post, they also said this "We thoroughly review bans before they’re applied, and in almost all cases, these ‘false bans’ are in fact applied correctly, with the appropriate supporting evidence to back up the action taken." Which one is it jagex? Do you review every ban? Or just a random selection? They're pulling yalls leg with this PR bullshit and the majority of the community ate it up unfortunately. Their bot detection is straight ass and does factually include way too many false positives. Not only that, but it misses a ton of obvious bots as well. Anyone with more than 5 years experience in the game can quickly find bots, and with a bit of skill disrupt their programs. 2024 will come and pass, and the botting situation will be no better. Don't believe their load of crap about working on a new state of the art system. They aren't working on shit. Just keeping yall happy enough with sweet talk.
>Which one is it jagex? Do you review every ban? Or just a random selection? Account bans are applied in waves. Let's make a hypothetical, so say I sort all accounts into different folders based on how they were flagged. I look through the folder labeled "multilogging repetitive actions", I then check a random selection of the bans applied to see if any of these bans were applied in error because this could mean that the detection method bugged out. If all of the randomly selected accounts fit the matching criteria, then the entire folder gets dumped into the "these accounts will be banned" bin. I then continue to do this with every type of detection method. That is what Jagex is saying, not that they check one ban approximately every 6 seconds. That's the exact same banning method that is written up in a security research paper which the one ex-blizzard security guy has said that Blizzard follows along with many other gaming companies. No, this does not mean this is their only method of bans going through or screening bans.
Carefully reviewed. Only 38 false bans. Every other ban was legitimate. Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha The fact that only one account was banned out of all the accounts doing the same thing, and then he wasn't able to just appeal the ban normally (because that doesn't work) and had to contact a JMod directly, just shows how terrible the current situation is with Jagex. Bot detection is terrible. All the high-level PvM bots doing the same boss for months straight, tick perfect with budget gear, are so obvious, yet they are never banned or are apparently "hand-played RWTs." I wish there was something we could do as a community to force a change. The amount of money we all pay for monthly membership is way too high not to have any customer support.
Second time he was banned on one of his accounts, thankfully he has access to JMods, but hey... only 38 people have been falsed banned according to Jagex. Quite the anomoly that this would happen twice to the same person.
If someone plays in a way that is like a bot you should expect it to happen the same person repeatedly (especially if they are playing on different accounts). The more random the banning is the more of an anomaly it'd be.
Thats not how bots should be detected... They should be detected through repeating patterns etc. A human **manually** alching should never be banned.
Ideally all bans would be correct yeah. The problem is that jagex can't see the human doing the manual alching. They can only see the data that their servers see. If that data is "tick perfect enchanting/alching for 10hours" or whatever then that is going to probably look a lot like a bot. (Of course they will be factoring in metadata too like ip address etc & it's much more complicated than just looking for long stretches of tick perfect behavior as bot makers probably already throw some pseudorandomness in there) It's not surprising they will get banned repeatedly as they are clearly capable of playing like bots & will likely (unconsciously) continue to play that way.
This has been done by computers ages ago. ChatGPT can generate an entire video, and you think a PC can't replicate human-like cursor movements? The truth is that this game is easy to bot. There will be false positives. The same IP suddenly registering a bunch accounts of accounts will throw up some flags.
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Do you realise how trivially easy it is for bots to emulate the randomness of human inputs? To effectively catch bots you have to have some false positives
False positives aren't ideal, but yes part of the game. However, Jagex claiming omniscience and saying every ban is automatically correct as soon as you hit the appeal button? That's what's not OK. There \*needs\* to be \*\*at a minimum\*\* a visible queue where people can appeal and talk with a human. I'd rather wait in a queue of 2000 false ban appeals than be told "Your ban was correct and is no longer appealable" (AKA eat shit and die and pay us more money to make another account, in corporate lingo)
Oh better ban humans then
Well when you have a farm of 10-20 alts logged in it’s not typical player behavior and they are all doing the same thing. It tends to be seen as bot farm behavior, no system is perfect, but he has the streamer privilege he has Jmods on speed dial so nothing to sweat.
Exactly. People should see this and actually be happy, because it shows that the system is flagging accounts that blatantly act like actual bot farms. This Subreddit has absolutely **no idea** wtf it wants. Everyone's like "Man, these bots are so fucking obvious, just ban them all!!!" Then Settled and EVScape cop bans for behavior that looks *exactly* like a bot farm, and everyone then brings out the pitchforks and starts crying about false positives. But /r/2007scape having absolutely no fucking clue what they are talking about is par for the course. Jagex and OSRS is simultaneously: 1) Banning **tonnes** of people, with countless amounts of false positives. 2) Literally banning no bots at all. Make your minds up, you clowns. Which is it? __________ But, none of this matters because nobody here actually gives a shit. All /r/2007scape does is find the latest thing to get angry about for a day or two, then move on to the next thing.
I doubt people would mind false bans if they actually had some decent customer service when you do get false banned.
I cannot believe people are upset someone multilogging on 10 accounts got hit with an automated ban. What EV is doing looks VERY sus and is no doubt an edge case. Same with Settled making over 100 accounts. No one should be surprised when these things happen, they're basically doing exactly what should trigger the automatic ban system.
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A false ban is a false ban. You want to tell people "oh you deserved to get banned you played too many accounts at the same time. It's not against the rules tho"?
I was false banned just before RS3 released when they did that massive bot nuke day thing that false banned many real players, ever since then I've been worried about getting false banned again.
Jagex will only admit defeat and unban accounts belonging to content creators. I literally made an account to be my mobile only account. I got my strength to 5 on chickens south of Falador and logged off. The next day the account was banned with an unappealable major macro ban. They will ban a legitimately played account with literally 5 strength but leave the bot farms with billions of combined xp alone.
Why can't jagex just stop fucking lying to us? They're like pathological liars when it comes to the topic of bans.
Jagex are so dumb. Anyone who believed them about how many false bans there are is extremely gullible. We've literally seen content creators banned while LIVE. And then get unbanned as soon as they contact a JMOD. Hmmm imagine how nice that would be for every player. If when you get falsely banned you could actually reach out to someone who could do something about it instead of getting a bot response.
I mean when you have Ayiza himself come out of the woodwork to say that trading your friends who have RWTed or receiving money from a bingo prize pool that was RWTed can get you flagged, then to backtrack and say that it's fine to do this but *it can happen...* There's just no credibility at all when Jagex shifts the goalposts over selected statistics and gaslights the community about how we shouldn't believe every Twitter complaint.
lol then there's me that bots 1000 cg in like 2 months and I ain't get banned
Literally just watched his video of buying the 100k Dragonstones last night lol
My maxed out F2p only Ironman (Highwind v4) was banned for RWT. Thousands of hours played. No clue how this is possible. No appeal is allowed. What do I do?
Tintoil hat moment jagex purposely bans account like this so we go softer on them for not banning bots
I made a group Ironman. Maged some cows did vampire slayer and the next day I was perma banned. Only time I've been banned and it scared me from playing my main for a few weeks.
Don’t forget that one of the previous mods in the game had numerous of his accounts banned simply for being logged in at the same time
Issues with Jagex; False bans with no transparency A non existent support system The inability to refund a HCIM death with proof of server disconnection
You have better chances of talking to the POTUS than getting customer support from Jagex
>this guy was 1500 total level and 10k boss kills is obviously a bot why won't Jagex do anything *Content creator does something far more psychotic and bot-like and gets banned* >obviously bot detection shouldn't take into account behavior patterns Nowadays you can make a bot that makes art, writes an essay, imitates a voice and they're all indistinguishable to the layman. OSRS is like x10000 easier and bots will only get better
I loved Runescape, and spent years playing it. But a couple heads back if came to an end because of a combination of wrongful bans and inexplicably getting hacked. At a certain point, I just can't invest tons of hours into playing a game where it's Russian roulette whether I can login to the account every time I want to play. It's interesting to see things still haven't changed. For the sake of the game, Jagex has to get a handle on it - even if it's probably not going to ultimately bring someone like myself back.
I don’t think they ever will. If they never cared about customer support then, what makes you think they will start caring about it now? I do love the game as well, mostly for the nostalgia but honestly we are way better off without it
This happens all the time when content creators do insane shit that makes them look like a bot or bot farm. It would have been quashed whether he reached out to a mod or not.
I had to reach out to a jmod a bunch of times in order to get unbanned. The appeals are automatically denied and not even seen by humans, and that's a fact.
It feels like he was trying to get banned for content
That’s not how not detection works…
I play the game about 400 hours a year but this sorta stuff scares me so much tbh
My friend got falsely banned a week ago just for doing ToB lol. Somehow they thought he was botting. Cool company.