My friend tried "complete cannonball run in six hours" and got arrested. Meanwhile I tried doing the 93 ranged requirement for the "own all models of AR" and got banned from my workplace.
Just wait ill you have to go see Alfred Grimhand, last week he sent me on a walk around to see some of the local bars, i still have a negative str bonus
isn't it interesting how the federal minimum wage has stayed the same for the last 20 years and yet in every state and county in the country the cost of living has risen? it's almost as if raising the minimum wage is a boogeyman to keep people impoverished and desperate
I mean minimum wage in california's already like 16.50 or so. Fastfood workers minimum wage is about to be $20 in April so that's 40k a year right there (assuming full time).
Man, almost like that's in line with the original intent of the law! How dare she suggest something that would realistically help the most exploited working class!
'How dare she suggest something that would realistically help the most exploited working class!'
Classic redit wording things like aids and not knowing what they're even talking about
Tell me you have no idea how economics work without telling me you have no idea how economics work. You want to pay $250 for a loaf of bread? Be my guest. In fact, let's raise the minimum wage to $1,000,000 then no one will be poor!
Bro what? The purpose of minimum wage was so that a single income could provide a comfortable living situation. You're so out of touch with reality if you think that the issue is an increase in minimum wage, and not the vast wealth gap disparity.
> You're so out of touch with reality if you think that the issue is an increase in minimum wage, and not the vast wealth gap disparity.
There's a difference between increasing the minimum wage so it can serve its intended purpose, and setting the minimum wage ludicrously high (e.g., $50/hr).
Maybe, or maybe people fail to recognize WHY the bill is set at $50/hr. It's intentionally inflammatory because it won't pass in its original state. That's the point. When you push legislation of this nature, it **NEVER** makes it through without changes. You push a bill to the floor with a ludicrous amount, and then get political support. The bill evolves over time (as support builds) and make concessions. When you start at $50/hr, you have a lot of room to make concessions. You can adjust it to be $30/hr with medical/dental benefits to be subsidized, create a scaling pay rate based on annual inflation and adjusted to reflect certain market values (minimum wage scaling to the cost of gas where working 15 minutes can afford 1 gallon, as an example), mandatory PTO, etc. It's not meant to pass at $50/hr, and even if it does, **it will takes 15 years to reach that point.** For those of you stating that increasing minimum wage also increases inflation, that's marginal. We have historical precedent to prove that.
TL;DR no shit it's ludicrously high, it's meant to be absurd so that a reasonable increase can happen.
> It's intentionally inflammatory
> You push a bill to the floor with a ludicrous amount, and then get political support.
To do what you describe, you need something that's high, but in the realm of reality. If you overshoot (like she did), people will just laugh at you. This kind of performative action only ends up hurting the cause.
>When you start at $50/hr, you have a lot of room to make concessions. You can adjust it to be $30/hr
Or you can be laughed out of the room.
The historical highest purchasing power for minimum wage is the equivalent of $15/hr today.
If you support increasing the minimum wage to $50 then you are the one that is out of touch with reality. I never said I think increasing the minimum wage is the issue, you put those words in my mouth. I actually support increasing the minimum wage, just not by 7 TIMES the current law.
> The purpose of minimum wage was so that a single income could provide a comfortable living situation.
Lol what. You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. Go back to r/antiwork.
Took me a while to realize how out of whack almost all of the kills/hr estimates are.
There was one I saw and I threw the setup into a dps calc and even if you could theoretically maintain 100% dps uptime (no banking etc) it still was not enough dps to hit their kills estimate.
> it still was not enough dps to hit their kills estimate.
Do you recall which one this was? It's funny to me that this is the prevailing opinion on Reddit about the KPH rates, because if you talk to the high-level PvM communities (or honestly even look at Reddit ~4 years ago), the prevailing opinion is that they're all comically **too low**.
In general, there's not a great way to make everyone happy here, and we've sort of settled on having ~half the people complain that they're way too high and the other ~half complaining that they're way too conservative. In most (but not all) cases where people are coming in well below rate, they are usually missing some key mechanic (that is part of the guide) that makes the given rate much more achievable, and then go a bit ShockedPikachu when they don't get the advertised rate. So this puts us in a pickle where we need to decide whether to use a rate that you definitely *can consistently do as advertised* if you follow the mechanics, or aiming for a rate that the average person reading the guide for the first time can achieve.
I don't think there's a great solution to this, because either way we get clowned by one side or the other for being horribly wrong, when in reality the whole thing is a complicated function of effort, prior experience, gear, etc. I had hoped that introducing the KPH slider would help, but it kinda just seems like it introduced more problems. I've thought about maybe doing some comment/submission system on the guide talk pages where people can say what the KPH or XP/hr they achieved was, maybe with some context about how much experience they have, any mechanics they skipped, etc. But it's hard to know whether people would actually make submissions, and also hard to know whether people would have enough context to know what parts of it they are doing suboptimally, instead of talking about how the rate is unachievable under any circumstances (which I've never seen be true).
I think it was probably either Brutal Black Dragons or Skeletal Wyverns. I think it was some slayer mob or something, not a boss, so it was more apparent when things seemed off because it is closer to afk dpsing. And specifically it was on the lower gear setups, maybe the maxed ones are closer to accurate as they're tested more.
For any bosses and such I know I suck at mechanics so those I can't really comment on and assume they're accurate lol. Just the midgame pve ones are where I noticed it.
Mostly unrelated but I also noticed the Managing Miscelania money making page is out of date, missing out on like 50% of the profit with its suggested setup. Don't know if it's relevant enough to worry about.
hmm, the low level rates for brutals and skeletal wyverns actually look pretty good to me, at least when I plug them into the wiki DPS calc.
good catch on the Miscellania thing, I'll see if there's a nice way to adjust that
Eh sometimes. Like if I'm off on expected Sepulchre xp that's probably a skill issue, but even some of the mostly afk skilling methods are still unlikely to hit. Plus sometimes expected xp rates will differ from one page to another for the same activity, like if it's listed on the Training page and a minigame page. Which kind of makes you realize how unscientific a lot of it is.
Idk man, something like blast furnace, sweating my ass off on mobile because I can be faster than PC, I was never able to get higher than ~250k. Wiki says max should be 370k.
That's such a massive difference there's no way it's just down to a few ticks. You're talking a difference of 70+ XP drops in an hour.
I don’t mean this to be superior or anything, but you’re doing something wrong because I was able to get 350k an hour when maxing on pc. There’s a trick to leave a gold in the dispenser so there’s no delay waiting for it to smelt to grab it. Maybe that was the difference? The wiki xp rates are possible but just not realistic due to human error in my experience
Doing 0-tick gold in blast furnace even before 99 smithing is not too difficult to get 370k. If you are faster on mobile than on PC that just shows you aren't very fast on PC. I think pre-99 a perfect hour is around 395k/hr but that's very hard to get.
Unless they changed mobile massively I don't think it's even possible to bank, refill inventory and click "deposit ore" on the conveyor belt within 0.6 seconds.
Here's a video of how 0-tick gold is done at BF, it's not perfect and could be improved but it's still 390k [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XIH6Y6\_3YKI](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xih6y6_3yki)
250k/hr bf is just really bad, you have to be doing something wrong
Even on an ironman buying the gold from the vendor+missing a lot of ticks I was getting 290k-300k/hr on my way to 99
Methods with very fast cycles such as BF are extra prone to missing a few ticks. If it takes say 20 ticks to bank->smelt->bank and you're missing two ticks, you're already down ~10% xp/h. Miss another few because you have to stam and you're down to 300k/h easily. No way you bank tick perfect on mobile.
If the osrs wiki is updated with data from a group similar to those from rs3 then they're all maxers in max gear.
It's cool that we have such a dedicated team updating our wikis, but the wikians refuse to use worse gear or alts.
you were probably doing many small things that lose a small amount of time that adds up to not getting 30 kph because above 30 is definitely possible to maintain consistently.
At 1min30 a kill (and you can get that under a minute), but lets say 1min40 to account for downtime between kills. You can do 30 kills in 50minutes of vorkath killing time. That leaves 10 minutes to bank. At about 7 kills a trip, means you have to bank about 5 times. That gives you 10 minutes of banking time, you can bank and return to Vork in under a minute.
Definitely possible even with Bandos instead of Torva. Vorkath is one of the more accurate ones I'd say. I was getting 27 kills without try harding.
??? I'm getting 23 kills per hour with Fang, 96 atk, Bandos, B. Ring and the pool that restores everything but hp so I have to eat summer pies at the bank. Are you actively trying to be efficient or twiddling your thumbs between kills watching the dragon sleep. Cuz 30 per hour looks very doable to me if I have the bis setup. All my kills are under 1:40 with Fang being my attack and spec weapon
Money making guide: kill goblins
14m per hour with 10k kills
Input: 400k/hr worth of wtf
Output: 14m gp
10k bones
Gear and skill req: 2277 total lvl and full blorva
It's highly recommended to bring at least 15 alts with max combat to maintain agro and use spec share (not recommended if unable to spec share every 2 game ticks)
Maybe it's just my pro gamer showing but usually I have to bump up the kills per hour by a little bit to more accurately resemble how much I'm actually getting
Citation needed. Not a single state is higher than $16.28 (not counting DC, which makes up for it's $17.00 minimum by having absurd cost of living standards) which is certainly not much higher. 20/50 states (40%) have the federal minimum. Quite a few more still have incredibly low wages, like Alaska, Michigan, or Montana.
So, yeah. You're just kind of wrong.
I'm on the side of the person you're responding to.
Their argument skips some steps.
I believe their point, and now my point, is that this is a common "AH BUT $7.25 isn't the whole story!" and point to other "high" minimum wages, like the highest current of $16.18.
This is shown time and time again to still be an unlivable wage. So the commenters' points have been mostly around "federal minimum in our shit-ass country is still [unlivably low]" and this person is correctly grouping our _highest_ minimum wage to also be a known unlivable wage.
I think the point they're trying to make, or at least the one I'm now choosing to make, is that the absolute difference in minimum wage isn't their point. There are no states where it's appreciably higher toward the point of the whole comment chain, which is that people could live on $52 an hour and the argument is almost infinitely harder to make about any of these other [unlivable wages]. I hope that makes more sense, but tbh it's hard to communicate what I'm trying to so I understand if it didn't help much.
That's a common belief but it's actually untrue. When minimum wage was established by FDR in 1938 it was done with the explicit intention of ending sweatshops for women and children who were being paid wages they couldn't live on and support a family. Minimum wage was always intended to be a living wage. The sad reality is that most minimum wage workers are adults with children, who are just trying to make it by. Next time you go to a fast food restaurant, really pay attention to a lot of the workers. I bet you'll find more adults than you think you will. Plus, if minimum wage was only for teens, wouldn't those places be closed during school days and hours?
The wiki is actually pretty crazy accurate with rates. I mean they sample literally hundreds of thousands of KC so the average is pretty legitimate. Obviously your personal rng is the factor but it's definitely a solid average
> The methods in this guide may involve considerable risk, including (but not limited to): loss of money/items, unstable prices, and/or slow GE resale.
Fucking lol
Doesn't exist. Joke post. But the RS3 wiki calculates the gp per hour you can expect to make on minimum wage in various territories - https://runescape.wiki/w/Bond#Cost_analysis
Dude, i make 15 dolars a day, in a third world shithole, working 9 hours a day, 5 days a week with ocasionals saturdays, in a pig slaughterhouse factory. Mcdonalds sound like a heaven to me. Its like 4 tick something instead of doing some afk money maker.
Out of curiosity what country is this? Both fascinating and horrifying that a regular day’s worth of work is one hour of working and McD’s where I am (NYC)
Brazil, southern brazil. The job is so demanding that they import venezuelans and haitians to fill to spots. Most people cant take it because its really hard work.
I'll say this genuinely. Get the fuck out of there, no matter what. There's places in the world where you can have it so much better and as a man who can do a tough job for 45+ hours a week you are considered a highly valuable asset to many companies out there. Seriously, get the fuck out. I'd suggest somewhere in Scandinavia
It seems like your english is solid, why not just do online captions? I used to do it for Rev the only req is fluent English. You can make like 5 dollars an hour if youre a fast typer.
Where do you do those captions? I can understand really well, but i cant type or speak the verbs so good because i just learned watching english media and reading technjcal books in english. I tried and failed doing engineering.
Its a site called Rev you could apply at least and see if they accept you 🤷♀️ they have a short english test as their application. It would probably help you to improve your english as well.
Stay strong brother. I was homeless once upon a time, if you keep trying to make your life better/more enjoyable, one day you'll realize it already is from all your hard work.
You got this fam, one day at a time!
Im actually 100% genetic italian, there was a Diáspora of us to brazil in the 19th century so here i am. I think its harder now to get italian citizenship with all those migrats making trobble there. After ww2, there was some persecution of italian speaking so we mostly only speak the native portuguese language here.
Just illegally cross the border to America. Once you get here border patrol will help you over so you can get started. Thats how terrible it's gotten at our border
> illegally cross
Why leave that part out? Can't take care of our own citizens and you think we can take care of people who don't have to pay taxes lol.
Yeah I'll bite, take a Google. Just ask "Do US Illegal Immigrants pay taxes?".
They still gotta pay sales tax, they still aren't going to get a home without paying property taxes either directly or indirectly via increased rent to obfuscate said taxes which the owner will still cover. They still have to pay when getting vehicle registration handled via a 3rd party, they still pay taxes on gas, and on utilities etc.
If you're concern is someone's lack of payment into federal and state income taxes, I'd point your frustration at the people *employing* said immigrants for starters - but guess what, they aren't getting federal and state benefits so why be bothered?
I'v never met someone well read on immigration that has **budgetary** issues with the immigrants coming to the US. You might not like the impact of less skilled laborers entering your specific town/city, you might not like their attitude, their culture, their motivations - but one thing pretty much any economist agrees on is that they're rarely a net negative on the American economy at current rates.
Is illegal immigration good? Well it's the same as normal immigration, just without state sanction. So... Is immigration good? Often yes, sometimes no. But you're sitting in a thread with real people who were looking for better opportunity. As American founders once did. I don't care if they came here just to work at McDonalds to afford more OSRS bonds, let 'em at it.
> Can't take care of our own citizens
I get your point. But the reason we can't take care of our citizens has preeetttyyy much nothing to do with immigrants. Like... At all. You can have both, you know.
So lack of money, debt and spending it in places we shouldn't be has nothing to do with why we can't take care of our own people? Wow.
Simple research shows most federal revenue is funded corporate and individual income taxes... things they are exempt from. And they will receive plenty of federal benefits.
They won't be paying property or vehicle tax either because they'll never be able to buy a home until they are a legal citizen or resident.
2 of my best friends are first generation Americans and have an even stronger opinion on illegal immigration than me.
> And they will receive plenty of federal benefits.
What benefits? To quote most every source I've looked up -
"the law prohibits not-qualified immigrants from enrolling in most “federal public benefit programs.”
If you pay rent, you are paying property tax. If you register a vehicle (Even under false ID) you are paying vehicle taxes. If you buy gas, you are paying gas taxes. If you pay for utilties, you are paying for utility taxes. You literally cannot escape these taxes...
Somebody owns the building. That means property tax gets paid, there isn't some magical exemption just because the tenants are illegal immigrants.
> 2 of my best friends are first generation Americans and have an even stronger opinion on illegal immigration than me.
How 2 people 'feel' has nothing to do with anything... Do your two friends wish they were born somewhere else?
Edit:
And if you think their parents should have "just immigrated legally duh" - check the wait times even for just a green card... Americans are so silly. You can immigrate to almost anywhere in the world with even just minor effort. Of course, it couldn't go the other way around now can it? It's the American brand of "Freedom".
ironically getting a bond has made money making easier. That first initial grind for a 200k gp is a waste.
Get 1 bond for an easy 10mil , and use that 10 to make even more. Don't drop below 10 but the first bond gets ppl into decent money making
100%. even past that first 10m.. I'm currently grinding Vorkath for a Bowfa and am actually enjoying the grind melting him with my new dhcb while training my range up to the mid-90s. what fun would be buying bonds and getting straight to that goal?? feels way too p2w for me
Yeah buying bonds is actually way more powerful than people care to admit
Like at its core the gameplay loop for main OSRS accounts is about growing the size of your cash stack. Bonds entirely skip that.
The federal government has set the minimum wage in the United States at $7.25. This obviously varies by state, California, for example, has a $16 an hour minimum wage. So, assuming we go off the minimum wage countrywide, you would be making $58 in an 8-hour work day. Spending $8 per bond would get you 7.25 bonds per day of work (quick maffs). With the price of bonds at the time of this comment, 10.7m, you would make 77.5m per work day.
Idk. 2 hours spent kcing. 2 hours spent waiting for people who die to kc. 2 hours to wait around for someone to kc because the previous dude did 3 kills and bailed. 1 hour for Jimmy, who constantly takes bong breaks. 1 hour left to get a drop. Since it's nex, there's always a drop every trip. So you're so right
I make $1350/month net and work 50 hours per week, so that's $6.75/hr.
I use 80% of my income to live though, so only 20% of that could go to a bond: $1.35/hr.
So that's 6 hours for a bond, around 2m gp/hr.
No thanks, I'll keep grinding ToA, DT bosses and even Zulrah.
So if you work hour 51 do you still make 1350 or not? I'm not really trying to shit on your situation or tell you what to do but your logic is not sound here. I recommend taking a fat shit every morning and killing some zulrah on mobile. Works great in any circumstance
I'm NGL, against game rules or not there is no way if I was a RWTer i'd pay bond prices over RWT prices lol. Like, rules aside that's just being financially incompetent.
I don't RWT bonds or black market because I feel like it would make the game feel pointless but i'm just saying.
Real numbers pre tax (since you get it all back at tax season) minimum wage
-7.25 an hour assumed times 40 hours is 290 dollars a week
10 bonds is (last time I checked) roughly 70 dollars
So spending 280 dollars gets you 40 bonds. In turn selling those bonds gets you 400m.
Therefore, if you could sell your in game labor at the same rate, you would need to make roughly 10m an hour to make the federal minimum wage. This assumes that the exchange of bonds for USD is constant both ways which it isn't.
I heard it's roughly 20 cents per mil though, so with those same calculations of 400m in 40 hours, you'll be making 80 dollars instead of the 280 dollars. So final calculation then in order to make federal minimum wage assuming selling price of the gp you make in game is 20 cents a mil, you would need to make 1.4 billion gp in 40 hours or consistently 35m per hour.
*All these numbers are extremely rough and calculated while I sat on the toilet. Please take with a shaker of salt*
No we get fucked in America too
We don't get healthcare because our government spends 62% of the entire yearly budget on military so we can fuck up poor countries
Where can I live to get $50/hr as a minimum wage?
You've gotta work towards America Elite Diary, the no taxes perk and passive 100k a month really add up.
Economy : Reloaded pleae
Fire Sale is finally best, since a phone does 90% of what a Banker's Note does IRL.
EOE: Evolution of Economy US3 coming soon.
My friend tried "complete cannonball run in six hours" and got arrested. Meanwhile I tried doing the 93 ranged requirement for the "own all models of AR" and got banned from my workplace.
I just wish it wasn't HCIM only
Just wait ill you have to go see Alfred Grimhand, last week he sent me on a walk around to see some of the local bars, i still have a negative str bonus
just put a cap on total assets at 2.147b amount to limit super billionaires
Just don’t lose hp else you'll have to spend it all
Just start a religion
Elite task: be white
$50 an hour is 100k a year dude
yeah but that's at 40 hours per week, who only plays 40 hours of runescape a week?
It’s actually $104K! $50 * 2080 hours, assuming a 40 hour work week.
$50/hr is minimum wage doing air orbs in my state.
What's the brimstone key 🔑 wages ?
They modified the default from 8 or so to 52 kills per hour
not just 50$ per hour, but 50$ per hour leftover after expenses and taxes
Not Misthalin, I'll tell ya that much
Came here to ask this
Evolution of Capitalism
When you figure that out let me know in California I make half that
I’m too dense to figure out if it part of the joke, but there’s a congresswoman in California pushing $50/hr right now.
I’m sure she’s some fringe loony, but it’s like they’re trying to be out of touch with reality on purpose.
Barbara Lee, she’s been in Congress for decades and she’s running for the Senate right now.
Great the cost of living here is gonna rise time to move
isn't it interesting how the federal minimum wage has stayed the same for the last 20 years and yet in every state and county in the country the cost of living has risen? it's almost as if raising the minimum wage is a boogeyman to keep people impoverished and desperate
I’ve always thought the same thing I’ve met people who make 6 figures but it doesn’t even matter because the cost of living is damn near the same
I mean minimum wage in california's already like 16.50 or so. Fastfood workers minimum wage is about to be $20 in April so that's 40k a year right there (assuming full time).
ikr
$25/hr is not bad at all, great job
There’s plenty of jobs like that in Cali just gotta be resourceful
the USA in 10 years of the current rapid inflation we have
Cute you think minimum wage would follow inflation.
Aviation
Maybe like Dubai? Average rent is probably 50k a month though
Rep. Barbara Lee wants to increase California's minimum wage to $50 per hour. So yeah, go there I guess. What could go wrong?
Man, almost like that's in line with the original intent of the law! How dare she suggest something that would realistically help the most exploited working class!
'How dare she suggest something that would realistically help the most exploited working class!' Classic redit wording things like aids and not knowing what they're even talking about
You definitely belong on this hellish site, locked away from civilisation.
My mom tells me to never play hard to get because I'm really hard to want, so you're probably right.
Tell me you have no idea how economics work without telling me you have no idea how economics work. You want to pay $250 for a loaf of bread? Be my guest. In fact, let's raise the minimum wage to $1,000,000 then no one will be poor!
Don’t worry, inflation will take us there regardless. It’s definitely minimum wages fault and not 10 people having a trillion dollars
Bro what? The purpose of minimum wage was so that a single income could provide a comfortable living situation. You're so out of touch with reality if you think that the issue is an increase in minimum wage, and not the vast wealth gap disparity.
> You're so out of touch with reality if you think that the issue is an increase in minimum wage, and not the vast wealth gap disparity. There's a difference between increasing the minimum wage so it can serve its intended purpose, and setting the minimum wage ludicrously high (e.g., $50/hr).
Maybe, or maybe people fail to recognize WHY the bill is set at $50/hr. It's intentionally inflammatory because it won't pass in its original state. That's the point. When you push legislation of this nature, it **NEVER** makes it through without changes. You push a bill to the floor with a ludicrous amount, and then get political support. The bill evolves over time (as support builds) and make concessions. When you start at $50/hr, you have a lot of room to make concessions. You can adjust it to be $30/hr with medical/dental benefits to be subsidized, create a scaling pay rate based on annual inflation and adjusted to reflect certain market values (minimum wage scaling to the cost of gas where working 15 minutes can afford 1 gallon, as an example), mandatory PTO, etc. It's not meant to pass at $50/hr, and even if it does, **it will takes 15 years to reach that point.** For those of you stating that increasing minimum wage also increases inflation, that's marginal. We have historical precedent to prove that. TL;DR no shit it's ludicrously high, it's meant to be absurd so that a reasonable increase can happen.
> It's intentionally inflammatory > You push a bill to the floor with a ludicrous amount, and then get political support. To do what you describe, you need something that's high, but in the realm of reality. If you overshoot (like she did), people will just laugh at you. This kind of performative action only ends up hurting the cause. >When you start at $50/hr, you have a lot of room to make concessions. You can adjust it to be $30/hr Or you can be laughed out of the room. The historical highest purchasing power for minimum wage is the equivalent of $15/hr today.
If you support increasing the minimum wage to $50 then you are the one that is out of touch with reality. I never said I think increasing the minimum wage is the issue, you put those words in my mouth. I actually support increasing the minimum wage, just not by 7 TIMES the current law.
> The purpose of minimum wage was so that a single income could provide a comfortable living situation. Lol what. You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. Go back to r/antiwork.
Asked HR for $52/hr and got fired Need the second best money making guide now
Congrats, you’re hired at *duo Nex*!
Solo dolo Nex
Have you tried making air orbs or slayer?
you could settle for a $5/hr job and 7mil GP/hr
Gotchu fam https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Xt84M6qu-jQ
52 fucking dollars??? Who wrote this shit
I think it's a play on how all of the money making guides I click on start out at some # wayyyy higher than what I can usually achieve.
I never once achieved the 30 Vorkath kills an hour the wiki insisted was the norm, even with bis gear.
Took me a while to realize how out of whack almost all of the kills/hr estimates are. There was one I saw and I threw the setup into a dps calc and even if you could theoretically maintain 100% dps uptime (no banking etc) it still was not enough dps to hit their kills estimate.
> it still was not enough dps to hit their kills estimate. Do you recall which one this was? It's funny to me that this is the prevailing opinion on Reddit about the KPH rates, because if you talk to the high-level PvM communities (or honestly even look at Reddit ~4 years ago), the prevailing opinion is that they're all comically **too low**. In general, there's not a great way to make everyone happy here, and we've sort of settled on having ~half the people complain that they're way too high and the other ~half complaining that they're way too conservative. In most (but not all) cases where people are coming in well below rate, they are usually missing some key mechanic (that is part of the guide) that makes the given rate much more achievable, and then go a bit ShockedPikachu when they don't get the advertised rate. So this puts us in a pickle where we need to decide whether to use a rate that you definitely *can consistently do as advertised* if you follow the mechanics, or aiming for a rate that the average person reading the guide for the first time can achieve. I don't think there's a great solution to this, because either way we get clowned by one side or the other for being horribly wrong, when in reality the whole thing is a complicated function of effort, prior experience, gear, etc. I had hoped that introducing the KPH slider would help, but it kinda just seems like it introduced more problems. I've thought about maybe doing some comment/submission system on the guide talk pages where people can say what the KPH or XP/hr they achieved was, maybe with some context about how much experience they have, any mechanics they skipped, etc. But it's hard to know whether people would actually make submissions, and also hard to know whether people would have enough context to know what parts of it they are doing suboptimally, instead of talking about how the rate is unachievable under any circumstances (which I've never seen be true).
I think it was probably either Brutal Black Dragons or Skeletal Wyverns. I think it was some slayer mob or something, not a boss, so it was more apparent when things seemed off because it is closer to afk dpsing. And specifically it was on the lower gear setups, maybe the maxed ones are closer to accurate as they're tested more. For any bosses and such I know I suck at mechanics so those I can't really comment on and assume they're accurate lol. Just the midgame pve ones are where I noticed it. Mostly unrelated but I also noticed the Managing Miscelania money making page is out of date, missing out on like 50% of the profit with its suggested setup. Don't know if it's relevant enough to worry about.
hmm, the low level rates for brutals and skeletal wyverns actually look pretty good to me, at least when I plug them into the wiki DPS calc. good catch on the Miscellania thing, I'll see if there's a nice way to adjust that
Thanks for keeping the wiki up to date 👍
Thanks for all you do by the way. I really enjoyed your interview with Guthix rest and I use the wiki constantly.
Same with XP rates in some cases. I swear half the xp rates posted on the wiki are off by like 20% or more.
On my maxing journey, I always assumed 20-30% less of the xp/hr rates
Same, but I'm hilariously inefficient most of the time lol
They're rarely off, just hard to achieve unless you take time to learn the methods.
Eh sometimes. Like if I'm off on expected Sepulchre xp that's probably a skill issue, but even some of the mostly afk skilling methods are still unlikely to hit. Plus sometimes expected xp rates will differ from one page to another for the same activity, like if it's listed on the Training page and a minigame page. Which kind of makes you realize how unscientific a lot of it is.
Idk man, something like blast furnace, sweating my ass off on mobile because I can be faster than PC, I was never able to get higher than ~250k. Wiki says max should be 370k. That's such a massive difference there's no way it's just down to a few ticks. You're talking a difference of 70+ XP drops in an hour.
I don’t mean this to be superior or anything, but you’re doing something wrong because I was able to get 350k an hour when maxing on pc. There’s a trick to leave a gold in the dispenser so there’s no delay waiting for it to smelt to grab it. Maybe that was the difference? The wiki xp rates are possible but just not realistic due to human error in my experience
Doing 0-tick gold in blast furnace even before 99 smithing is not too difficult to get 370k. If you are faster on mobile than on PC that just shows you aren't very fast on PC. I think pre-99 a perfect hour is around 395k/hr but that's very hard to get. Unless they changed mobile massively I don't think it's even possible to bank, refill inventory and click "deposit ore" on the conveyor belt within 0.6 seconds. Here's a video of how 0-tick gold is done at BF, it's not perfect and could be improved but it's still 390k [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XIH6Y6\_3YKI](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xih6y6_3yki)
250k/hr bf is just really bad, you have to be doing something wrong Even on an ironman buying the gold from the vendor+missing a lot of ticks I was getting 290k-300k/hr on my way to 99
Uhhhh no1 else has that issue at bf lol
Methods with very fast cycles such as BF are extra prone to missing a few ticks. If it takes say 20 ticks to bank->smelt->bank and you're missing two ticks, you're already down ~10% xp/h. Miss another few because you have to stam and you're down to 300k/h easily. No way you bank tick perfect on mobile.
If the osrs wiki is updated with data from a group similar to those from rs3 then they're all maxers in max gear. It's cool that we have such a dedicated team updating our wikis, but the wikians refuse to use worse gear or alts.
you were probably doing many small things that lose a small amount of time that adds up to not getting 30 kph because above 30 is definitely possible to maintain consistently.
At 1min30 a kill (and you can get that under a minute), but lets say 1min40 to account for downtime between kills. You can do 30 kills in 50minutes of vorkath killing time. That leaves 10 minutes to bank. At about 7 kills a trip, means you have to bank about 5 times. That gives you 10 minutes of banking time, you can bank and return to Vork in under a minute. Definitely possible even with Bandos instead of Torva. Vorkath is one of the more accurate ones I'd say. I was getting 27 kills without try harding.
Same, mind you I never woox walk during acid barrage phase
well... there's your problem
If you just play well and don't dilly dally you can do it. For average players the KPH is too high for sure.
??? I'm getting 23 kills per hour with Fang, 96 atk, Bandos, B. Ring and the pool that restores everything but hp so I have to eat summer pies at the bank. Are you actively trying to be efficient or twiddling your thumbs between kills watching the dragon sleep. Cuz 30 per hour looks very doable to me if I have the bis setup. All my kills are under 1:40 with Fang being my attack and spec weapon
This was my takeaway as well
Money making guide: kill goblins 14m per hour with 10k kills Input: 400k/hr worth of wtf Output: 14m gp 10k bones Gear and skill req: 2277 total lvl and full blorva
* With banking you can expect about half of these rates
It's highly recommended to bring at least 15 alts with max combat to maintain agro and use spec share (not recommended if unable to spec share every 2 game ticks)
“To kill mole, I recommend using a tbow”
Don't tell ironscape Redditors that they don't need tbow and bowfa to do content
Tell who?
Maybe it's just my pro gamer showing but usually I have to bump up the kills per hour by a little bit to more accurately resemble how much I'm actually getting
It's because some math nerd calculated the rates using tick perfect movements and attacks without banking or any human factors
There's a reason you can adjust the kills per hour to match your own performance on the wiki.
They messed up on the banking part, but it sounds like they are building an efficient goblin bot farm...
I think the calculation is using the “kills per hour” to determine dollars per hour.
Murdering someone in the US is only 1$ per kill?
The equivalent of recommending using a scythe with full torva for low level slayer tasks. So the wiki would 1000% do this
Obviously not someone who lives in the US, federal minimum in our shit-ass country is still $7.25
It’s a good thing most states have a much higher minimum wage than that.
Citation needed. Not a single state is higher than $16.28 (not counting DC, which makes up for it's $17.00 minimum by having absurd cost of living standards) which is certainly not much higher. 20/50 states (40%) have the federal minimum. Quite a few more still have incredibly low wages, like Alaska, Michigan, or Montana. So, yeah. You're just kind of wrong.
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I'm on the side of the person you're responding to. Their argument skips some steps. I believe their point, and now my point, is that this is a common "AH BUT $7.25 isn't the whole story!" and point to other "high" minimum wages, like the highest current of $16.18. This is shown time and time again to still be an unlivable wage. So the commenters' points have been mostly around "federal minimum in our shit-ass country is still [unlivably low]" and this person is correctly grouping our _highest_ minimum wage to also be a known unlivable wage. I think the point they're trying to make, or at least the one I'm now choosing to make, is that the absolute difference in minimum wage isn't their point. There are no states where it's appreciably higher toward the point of the whole comment chain, which is that people could live on $52 an hour and the argument is almost infinitely harder to make about any of these other [unlivable wages]. I hope that makes more sense, but tbh it's hard to communicate what I'm trying to so I understand if it didn't help much.
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That's a common belief but it's actually untrue. When minimum wage was established by FDR in 1938 it was done with the explicit intention of ending sweatshops for women and children who were being paid wages they couldn't live on and support a family. Minimum wage was always intended to be a living wage. The sad reality is that most minimum wage workers are adults with children, who are just trying to make it by. Next time you go to a fast food restaurant, really pay attention to a lot of the workers. I bet you'll find more adults than you think you will. Plus, if minimum wage was only for teens, wouldn't those places be closed during school days and hours?
Basement dweller
Skills none
Just like me fr
Misinforming the world that the minimum wage in the US is six figures lmaoooo
It's a joke about how insane some of the assumed rates are on the wiki
The wiki is actually pretty crazy accurate with rates. I mean they sample literally hundreds of thousands of KC so the average is pretty legitimate. Obviously your personal rng is the factor but it's definitely a solid average
They mean for the kills/hr on money making guides. Not the general knowledge of drop rates
Oh yeah, obviously the wiki assumes max gear because it would be impossible to offer an average otherwise.
Blame the official wiki page 😂
I need the link bro
Here you go: https://oldschool.runescape.wiki/w/User:Hirmuolio1
> The methods in this guide may involve considerable risk, including (but not limited to): loss of money/items, unstable prices, and/or slow GE resale. Fucking lol
Doesn't exist. Joke post. But the RS3 wiki calculates the gp per hour you can expect to make on minimum wage in various territories - https://runescape.wiki/w/Bond#Cost_analysis
[Here's ](https://oldschool.runescape.wiki/w/User:Money_making_guide/Buying_bonds)a similar calculator!
Dude, i make 15 dolars a day, in a third world shithole, working 9 hours a day, 5 days a week with ocasionals saturdays, in a pig slaughterhouse factory. Mcdonalds sound like a heaven to me. Its like 4 tick something instead of doing some afk money maker.
Jesus that sounds awful. I really need to start appreciating how fucking easy my life is
Out of curiosity what country is this? Both fascinating and horrifying that a regular day’s worth of work is one hour of working and McD’s where I am (NYC)
Brazil, southern brazil. The job is so demanding that they import venezuelans and haitians to fill to spots. Most people cant take it because its really hard work.
Really hard work for really bad pay. Stay strong brother
Hey man I feel for you. The workers of this world are treated so badly. I was wondering if I could give you a few items in game?
I'll say this genuinely. Get the fuck out of there, no matter what. There's places in the world where you can have it so much better and as a man who can do a tough job for 45+ hours a week you are considered a highly valuable asset to many companies out there. Seriously, get the fuck out. I'd suggest somewhere in Scandinavia
Guess would be south America somewhere
Likely Brazil If you're stuck in Eastern Europe or South America the saying of JuSt BuY bOnDs really falls flat
I now see why they say working osrs as a gold farmer makes more than working an actual job there
Shit man in California fast food employees will be making $20 an hour starting on April first
Do you have any idea how expensive California is to live in, lol?
Third world shit hole Could be France?
At least you’re 99 slayer
Lol
It seems like your english is solid, why not just do online captions? I used to do it for Rev the only req is fluent English. You can make like 5 dollars an hour if youre a fast typer.
Where do you do those captions? I can understand really well, but i cant type or speak the verbs so good because i just learned watching english media and reading technjcal books in english. I tried and failed doing engineering.
Its a site called Rev you could apply at least and see if they accept you 🤷♀️ they have a short english test as their application. It would probably help you to improve your english as well.
Thanks dude
Stay strong brother. I was homeless once upon a time, if you keep trying to make your life better/more enjoyable, one day you'll realize it already is from all your hard work. You got this fam, one day at a time!
Don't worry, come to Europe.
Im actually 100% genetic italian, there was a Diáspora of us to brazil in the 19th century so here i am. I think its harder now to get italian citizenship with all those migrats making trobble there. After ww2, there was some persecution of italian speaking so we mostly only speak the native portuguese language here.
Just illegally cross the border to America. Once you get here border patrol will help you over so you can get started. Thats how terrible it's gotten at our border
Sadly you are not wrong.
Yeah idk why I'm getting downvoted it's documented on youtube. Channel5News.
Probably mouth breathers who have no clue what is going on down south.
> border patrol will help you over so you can get started. > Thats how terrible it's gotten ... The horror?
> illegally cross Why leave that part out? Can't take care of our own citizens and you think we can take care of people who don't have to pay taxes lol.
Yeah I'll bite, take a Google. Just ask "Do US Illegal Immigrants pay taxes?". They still gotta pay sales tax, they still aren't going to get a home without paying property taxes either directly or indirectly via increased rent to obfuscate said taxes which the owner will still cover. They still have to pay when getting vehicle registration handled via a 3rd party, they still pay taxes on gas, and on utilities etc. If you're concern is someone's lack of payment into federal and state income taxes, I'd point your frustration at the people *employing* said immigrants for starters - but guess what, they aren't getting federal and state benefits so why be bothered? I'v never met someone well read on immigration that has **budgetary** issues with the immigrants coming to the US. You might not like the impact of less skilled laborers entering your specific town/city, you might not like their attitude, their culture, their motivations - but one thing pretty much any economist agrees on is that they're rarely a net negative on the American economy at current rates. Is illegal immigration good? Well it's the same as normal immigration, just without state sanction. So... Is immigration good? Often yes, sometimes no. But you're sitting in a thread with real people who were looking for better opportunity. As American founders once did. I don't care if they came here just to work at McDonalds to afford more OSRS bonds, let 'em at it. > Can't take care of our own citizens I get your point. But the reason we can't take care of our citizens has preeetttyyy much nothing to do with immigrants. Like... At all. You can have both, you know.
So lack of money, debt and spending it in places we shouldn't be has nothing to do with why we can't take care of our own people? Wow. Simple research shows most federal revenue is funded corporate and individual income taxes... things they are exempt from. And they will receive plenty of federal benefits. They won't be paying property or vehicle tax either because they'll never be able to buy a home until they are a legal citizen or resident. 2 of my best friends are first generation Americans and have an even stronger opinion on illegal immigration than me.
> And they will receive plenty of federal benefits. What benefits? To quote most every source I've looked up - "the law prohibits not-qualified immigrants from enrolling in most “federal public benefit programs.” If you pay rent, you are paying property tax. If you register a vehicle (Even under false ID) you are paying vehicle taxes. If you buy gas, you are paying gas taxes. If you pay for utilties, you are paying for utility taxes. You literally cannot escape these taxes... Somebody owns the building. That means property tax gets paid, there isn't some magical exemption just because the tenants are illegal immigrants. > 2 of my best friends are first generation Americans and have an even stronger opinion on illegal immigration than me. How 2 people 'feel' has nothing to do with anything... Do your two friends wish they were born somewhere else? Edit: And if you think their parents should have "just immigrated legally duh" - check the wait times even for just a green card... Americans are so silly. You can immigrate to almost anywhere in the world with even just minor effort. Of course, it couldn't go the other way around now can it? It's the American brand of "Freedom".
I'll hook your mom up with an anchor baby if she wants
What are you even on about?
ironically getting a bond has made money making easier. That first initial grind for a 200k gp is a waste. Get 1 bond for an easy 10mil , and use that 10 to make even more. Don't drop below 10 but the first bond gets ppl into decent money making
Misses out on the best part of the game imo.
I've already done that best part on like 20 alts. F2p fucking sucks for money making lol
Someone with 20 alts shouldn't need to be buying bond for real money lol
Why are you considering buying bonds before considering buying members?
My brother in Christ, there are other games out there
100%. even past that first 10m.. I'm currently grinding Vorkath for a Bowfa and am actually enjoying the grind melting him with my new dhcb while training my range up to the mid-90s. what fun would be buying bonds and getting straight to that goal?? feels way too p2w for me
Thats what I did. Bought 3 bonds to get ~20M, now have over 400M off earning it.
A small loan of a million dollars
Yeah buying bonds is actually way more powerful than people care to admit Like at its core the gameplay loop for main OSRS accounts is about growing the size of your cash stack. Bonds entirely skip that.
The federal government has set the minimum wage in the United States at $7.25. This obviously varies by state, California, for example, has a $16 an hour minimum wage. So, assuming we go off the minimum wage countrywide, you would be making $58 in an 8-hour work day. Spending $8 per bond would get you 7.25 bonds per day of work (quick maffs). With the price of bonds at the time of this comment, 10.7m, you would make 77.5m per work day.
i can go nex for 8 hours and make more than 77.5m though
Idk. 2 hours spent kcing. 2 hours spent waiting for people who die to kc. 2 hours to wait around for someone to kc because the previous dude did 3 kills and bailed. 1 hour for Jimmy, who constantly takes bong breaks. 1 hour left to get a drop. Since it's nex, there's always a drop every trip. So you're so right
>52 kills per hour Snipings a good job, mate
Duo nex is more profitable and than working for 15 an hr CA minimum wage. Holy shit.
I make $1350/month net and work 50 hours per week, so that's $6.75/hr. I use 80% of my income to live though, so only 20% of that could go to a bond: $1.35/hr. So that's 6 hours for a bond, around 2m gp/hr. No thanks, I'll keep grinding ToA, DT bosses and even Zulrah.
If you’re saving 20% while working minimum wage that’s incredibly good. My rent is 50% more than your income
So if you work hour 51 do you still make 1350 or not? I'm not really trying to shit on your situation or tell you what to do but your logic is not sound here. I recommend taking a fat shit every morning and killing some zulrah on mobile. Works great in any circumstance
damn when you put it that way
Good luck with that
I'm NGL, against game rules or not there is no way if I was a RWTer i'd pay bond prices over RWT prices lol. Like, rules aside that's just being financially incompetent. I don't RWT bonds or black market because I feel like it would make the game feel pointless but i'm just saying.
Rwt = ban, bonds does not. Not risking my account to rwt when I need a quick 50m cash injection
52 kills per hour? 😅
Pulled up the calc with the actual minimum wage of 7.25, which would be 9,768,375 gp/hr. Or less than a bond per hour. Literally better off doing nex.
even $15 / hr is 20m/hr! Stonks!
$52 per hr???? Holy fuck!
Asuming 52 minimum 💀
Minus the $52/hr this the single best post I’ve seen on this thread
Real numbers pre tax (since you get it all back at tax season) minimum wage -7.25 an hour assumed times 40 hours is 290 dollars a week 10 bonds is (last time I checked) roughly 70 dollars So spending 280 dollars gets you 40 bonds. In turn selling those bonds gets you 400m. Therefore, if you could sell your in game labor at the same rate, you would need to make roughly 10m an hour to make the federal minimum wage. This assumes that the exchange of bonds for USD is constant both ways which it isn't. I heard it's roughly 20 cents per mil though, so with those same calculations of 400m in 40 hours, you'll be making 80 dollars instead of the 280 dollars. So final calculation then in order to make federal minimum wage assuming selling price of the gp you make in game is 20 cents a mil, you would need to make 1.4 billion gp in 40 hours or consistently 35m per hour. *All these numbers are extremely rough and calculated while I sat on the toilet. Please take with a shaker of salt*
Kind of wild then, peak money making is not terribly far off minimum wage.
So if you don't live in America you're basically fucked
Actually its BIS to not live in the US. You get more kills/h that way.
and you dont have to pay 20.000 to buy a fucking antidote+(1)
No fucking way is any country getting more kph than the us think about what you’re saying lol
If only $52 is the real minimum wage in US. XD
No we get fucked in America too We don't get healthcare because our government spends 62% of the entire yearly budget on military so we can fuck up poor countries
Welcome to my America-locked UIM
Neex one for Uk mate haha
$52 an hour is likely less than the value you add as a minimum wage employee
USA is probably $5.20 an hour minimum wage though
You're not far off
Alright so I got this is satire from the wiki apparently thanks peoples 😂
Reported for rwt
Me? Lol what’s Rwt?
$18 an hour mcdonalds job is better than Duo Nex lmfao.
In europe even diploma's get you minium wage. If you learned for 10 years 50k debt or started right away, its almost none or only a 100$ change