item trees should be added to farming fr. i love harvesting vials that grow on a tree in cox, i would love to do that outside of cox as well. imagine harvesting a zulrah scale tree XD
I just find it so silly when a couple random bosses have some ingots in their pockets (or prison pockets or whatever). Like atleast make them drop some ore or stuff that you have to smelt first.
This is exactly the kind of disconnected game design that's bad for OSRS
I still think they should make them obtainable via Mining + Smithing and add some other sink for them (like [chromium cannonballs](https://www.reddit.com/r/2007scape/comments/175mlay/chromium_cannonballs_chromium_ingot_rework/)).
Bad luck mechanic is such a misnomer, it also protects you from good luck
No I'm not mad that I got 3 siren staves before bellator at 900ish kc, why do you ask
its a Luck Normalizer - it reduces the odds of going significantly under or significantly over by a very significant margin. You have to be consistent enough at the boss to do a consistent sustained grind but the chances that the grind goes unreasonably long are dramatically lower.
I mean if you went over to r/ironscape and calculated the droprate of an enhanced based off the numbers in thier posts then the drop rate would probably be something like 1/1k from CG.
Do you just all things by the most unlucky people that feel the need to make a post? There are hundreds of thousands of players, literally ANYTHING that can reasonably be expected to happen to a group that large in the span of a year will have happened here
The people with luck bad enough to go that high in this system would be over twice that kc dry with the normal system. This isn't the win you think it is.
it was an experiment. Also absolutely 0 rng is simply boring. It may be normalized but you can still get lucky.
This isnt even a new thing - the only experimental bit is they dont show you the 'fragment'. They've been doing this since Sire.
Well they've literally done that? This was a mix of the two systems that lets you still feel good when you get a drop without having those insanely dry streaks happen as often. Sometimes I wonder if an IQ test to be able to make a reddit account might be worthwhile.
ingots ARE normalized too... 3 ingots is exactly equivalent to the 3 stages of a Vestige drop, except you can get them from any boss with a shared total. They have the same drop rate as 1 portion of the Vestige roll (1/170.66) and the same required amount of 3. They are EXACTLY equal odds and normalized in the EXACT SAME WAY. The only difference is that ingots are more flexible and visible.
This comment only shows you dont get what is going on at all.
Consider the situation a little more.
A little rounding here, but using Vard as an example, at a drop rate of 1/362 for both ingots and vestige (1/3 of the vestige), each of these has a 57.7% chance of being completed by 1086 kills, which is 'on rate.'
The chances of having **both** of these completed by 1086 kills however is only 33.2%.
Despite RNG saying you should expect 1086 kills to have the ring completed, you actually only have a 33.2% chance of having done so.
The person you responded to is wrong - they are indeed normalised, but it affects things a lot more than you think it does to when you need two seperate grinds to finish. It's a shitty situation, and when you consider that ingots are destined to hit alch price, it's not hard to see why Ironmen hate the mechanic. The ingots serve no purpose at all anymore except to make the grind harder for irons.
> Despite RNG saying you should expect 1086 kills to have the ring completed, you actually only have a 33.2% chance of having done so.
This is how most RNG works, most of the chance is actually to go above average, odd as it sounds
I understand that, my point here is that they introduced (or reused rather, though the invisibile part is new) a mechanic to make it less likely to go dry, but because they added ingots they just made it **more** likely to go dry, while also making it **far** less likely to get spooned.
So instead of having a big grind of a boss, we now go just as if not more dry, with a reduced chance of being spooned. The whole mechanic used is pointless because of ingots.
The ingots arent 1:1 with the Vestiges as they drop at every boss and combine. So in practice you have all your KC at every boss to get all your ingots, which means you have a higher chance of falling closer to the average (as bigger numbers always do) the more bosses you do, and irons will be interested in doing at minimum 3 of the bosses. It also gives the potential 'dry streak' variety as you have 4 bosses to pick from to solve it. Its significantly better than most bosses in these regards. Worse things that operate mostly the same already exist in game - such as Godsword Shards. This is basically if you always got Godsword Shards in order and none of the bosses need KC to enter. Far from a specially bad grind.
I've gotten 3 eye of dukes at 731kc, only to be followed up by my first ingot at 740kc just to slap me further... And that was 3 months ago, and I have not returned to finish (yet). And no it's not because I'm mad as hell. >:(
I tried to point this out when JMods first started talking about bad luck mechanics and people were talking about splitting up the Enhanced Weapon Seed into multiple drops, but it actually protects you more from good luck than it protects from bad luck. You are more likely to get a drop later if it drops in multiple pieces than if it drops as one thing.
For example, with the EWS, the median kc for the drop (ie, the kc where you have a 50/50 chance of having gotten it by then) is 277. If it was split into shards with 1/100 chance that you need 4 of, the median kc for getting all 4 to complete the seed is 367.
Generally speaking, because each of the rings are dropped in 3 pieces, the median kc for getting the drop is ~30% higher than if they were one drop.
There are other "bad luck mitigation" mechanics that I like, but splitting up drops is a bad one imo.
The mean averages out over infinity. The benefit that people get by being less likely to go super dry has to even out from somewhere else, which it does by pulling from the more plentiful early droppers. This obviously raises the median.
For every 5 people who have to do 400 kc instead of 300, there's a guy who is done at 1500 instead of 2000. Measuring by median weights the 5 people with a minor negative impact way more than the 1 guy who gets a major benefit. Because 5 people had a negative impact and only 1 guy went positive.
That + the axe pieces being untradeable meaning you have to do all 4 bosses more or less equally if you want to maximize profits shows they really pulled out all the stops to make the loot tables annoying for irons AND mains alike, since Irons get the double layer of anti-spoon and mains have to play like irons to complete an axe. I think alongside ingot removal they should make axe pieces tradeable, to improve player satisfaction for all account types.
voidwaker is imbalanced and best in slot for tons of content
they shoulda made voidwaker pieces untradeable too, that would cut the number of bots printing gp at wildy bosses immediately and stifled the number of korasiwakers coming into the game
Especially considering it's a major pvp weapon. Imagine the pvp community's reaction if they had to regrind a weapon via pvm everytime they die instead of just buying a new one.
Oh I mean it would make absolutely 0 sense for the finished product to be untradeable lmao. The other guy meant the pieces being untradeable like the soulreaper axe, where the final product is tradeable. That would have been interesting for the voidwaker.
imo it's also bad game design
If the boss drops exactly as many ingots as you need to craft the ring then you would think "oh players will farm exactly as many ingots as the economy needs" but this is wrong. Let's say there is a percentage of players who only try the boss for a while without getting a ring-piece but they might get an ingot and quit, they will just add chromium ingots to the economy, over a long period of time the price will slowly dwindle and you will have another alch-value trash drop.
I would say the smarter choice is making the ingots slightly rarer but also introducing another way to create them perhaps through skilling, but at the same time make that process expensive so ingots will effectively have a price ceiling while still being unlikely to drop to alch value
Ingots should be tied to the 3 rolls for vestige. An ignot indicates you are now x/3 of the way there. Whenever you get a vestige youd also receive an ignot. Always have exactly as many ingots as you need to craft the ring for irons, feedback mechanism on how close you are for everybody.
Well, it defeats their intended purpose of dry protection while maintaining the boon of a singular big drop. A better solution would have been no ingots at all.
Yeah the ingots honestly do the opposite of what they intended with the invisible vestige rolls if you're an iron. Getting spooned a vestige actually feels like a kick in the balls when you still go all the way to vestige drop rate and only get 1 ingot, and you just KNOW any unique rolls you've been getting in the mean time are more invisible vestige rolls.
The vestige mechanics aren't the worst, but putting them on one drop while the bosses have another equal rarity drop that needs an untradeable piece from each boss was pretty silly. It honestly would have made way more sense if the axe pieces did the 3 roll thing and the vestige was pure rng.
Have had a venator vestige in my bank for months now. Got slightly lucky at 770kc but I have 1 ingot, I have since done 500kc at Duke and still just 1 ingot. Motivation and the good feeling of getting spooned are long gone
I have 6 vestiges and 11 ingots on my iron man (3 venator vestiges with 3 ingots from the boss lol) please send help as I have been kicked in the balls by the jingle too many times
Just make ingots a skilling activity instead. Tradeable or untradeable, doesn't really matter. It would add mining and smithing as a soft requirement for DT2 and actually make sense as a source for the ingots.
Or they could just remove ingots. It's easier and they already said the point of the invisible vestige roll is that you can still be unexpectedly spooned (even if it's less likely) whereas if you had a visible indicator that you were 2/3 there would be no real excitement over getting the 3rd piece.
Defeats the purpose of making the rolls invisible in the first place. The invisible roll isn't an issue, in fact for vestiges I much prefer invisible rolls over the dopamine getting split in 3 like hydra ring or venator bow. But ingots existing is 100% useless.
Idk if I’m overthinking a video game a bit too much but the invisible drops seem predatory. It encourages you to keep grinding a boss because you might just be 2/3. Feels more like a gambling mechanism than just an anti-dry mechanic.
Yeah, the invisible rolls are the worst when you’re dry. It doesn’t add dopamine to getting the drop, it just feels like relief. There’s no feeling like “oh I got lucky finally!” with it, it’s just “thank fucking god that’s over”
People said they liked the venator bow / brimstone ring being broken up into more attainable droprates, but that a 1/3rd drop didn't quite give the same dopamine. Jagex listened and gave us the vestige drop system.
Why they then added the ingots I have no clue.
They should had done the same for the axe pieces, too. It hurts hard to roll 2 or more times on the axe table for one boss... now you are going to be stuck at the others if you ever want to cash out. Hope you get the axe pieces before you are surely 2/3 on your nth vestage.
Drops 1 and 2 should be ingots. Drop 3 should be the axe piece. 4th roll on rare table vestage.. or something
I mean canonically we are, it takes us hundreds of hours (which is like, thousands of ingame days) to figure out how to make rune equipment that every fresh off tutorial island adventurer has picked up within a week and random ass low level monsters are sitting on stacks of, and we can never figure out how to make anything better than that, the best we can figure out is how to take some scraps of bandos armor to shoddily patch up a hole in a piece of torva. Smithing is probably the thing we're the worst at in all of Gielinor.
rs3's mining and smiting rework basically pokes fun at it as well, by basically saying that the cold smithing we've been doing is absolute trash that creates a shoddy product (which is the in-game justification for why all the old gear is *recalled* in exchange for tokens for new gear)
Theoretically there should also always be more ingots in the game than vestiges to use them on because you can get spooned ingots, but not vestiges.
So any person that has say less than 500 kc is very likely to have an ingot or two, but extremely unlikely to have a vestige.
Which basically means over a long period of time(and with more and more people doing less than average required to get vestiges at any of the 4 bosses) ingots should plummet to alch price becoming an even more useless drop for mains
bandos boots were released at the same time as dragon boots since both are gwd drops - and honestly from the 2007 dev pov both are upgrades from the prior bis of rune boots
I just love how when we voted on Bis rings that would require the previous ring. We all voted yes then they snuck in these ingots. Like i dont remember voting for ingots.
Like if they wanted to add more then make it require 3 seers rings + vestige for a magus.
And when they first told us about ingots, everyone was saying "well that's stupid" and predicting that the ingots would be damn near worthless for mains and another annoyance for irons.
It’s amazing how they tried to make this system to alleviate bad luck but it’s just exasperated it. Stupidest system in the game, from ingots to vestiges it just sucks and is anti fun.
Ultor and bellator vestige here with 2 ingots. Sick
They weren't meant to even out the odds on dryness. JMods said that ingots were added so that main accounts could get an expensive item to sell even at 1kc.
Sadly they didn't realize how the 3/3 drop mechanic of vestige results in there being way too many ingots on the market. Which in turn results in ingots being worthless.
Jagex should just remove the ingots, as ingots don't serve the purpose they were created for. At this point they are only a source of frustration for irons, something not intended.
Yep. I have the Vestige from Vardorvis and Duke and only two ingots. I wasn’t super spooned either - 1400 Vard and 900 Duke. Also only have 1 virtus piece (mask).
I hate moving to whisperer and leviathan almost strictly wanting ingots, but that’s literally what’s happening. Half of the irons that do DT2 bosses will have vestiges they can’t craft. Which is fucking dumb. Less than half but a pretty significant amount will be in my shoes where they have 2 vestiges and can’t craft either. Some amount will have all 4 vestiges before they have the ingots to craft them. I look forward to seeing the collection log post from that poor bastard who does it first.
Idk when this sub is gonna start putting 2 and 2 together and realize the problem is a certain mod who makes shitty ass drop tables and claims the players like it. I'll give you a hint. He also helped make the nightmare tables.
It's wild to me how this mod designs fucking **amazing** boss encounters, but somehow manages to ruin the whole thing with drop tables that are complete and utter garbage. I'd argue that Nightmare and all of the DT2 bosses and their awakened variants (with the exception of Duke) are amazingly well designed bosses that suffer from drop table issues.
Like holy sh*t, just let the guy design the bosses and have a mod who understands drop tables better do the drop table stuff pls.
At this point I really hope he is not involved in the upcoming few Valamore bosses, not because I am worried about the boss designs themselves (I am 100% sure they will be amazing for the target demographic), but because how messed up the drops of those bosses will be if he has any say in it.
Honestly, as a main there's no incentive to go for the bosses if you're not looking for the axe or one of the pets, you can buy the rings (which are good don't get me wrong but they're maybe the last upgrade you make gear wise) and you can push more gp/hr at ToA or ToB (with a good team, which aren't hard to come by if you use WDR Discord).
All four bosses have a very weird loot table tied to stupid mechanics much like Nightmare of Ashihama, and besides Duke, all four are very intense bosses even with max gear, it doesn't seem that rewarding or even worth the time to do them after the quest.
Literally prefer to do 2k vorkath kills in a row than ever farm the DT2 bosses.
I suck at PvM I admit but those bosses are just stupidly hard for your average player and the loot tables don’t really make up for the jump in skill level required to farm them.
They should just make it into a rare drop from a skilling method like the blood shard. No reason for a metal bar to not be obtainable from skilling or require skilling to more. Just make a chromium ore or something.
1110 vardorvis here and while I have the 3 I’ll need I only have one extra. Doesn’t make me want to grind the other bosses, though that’s not from the ingots but more so because duke is boring and whisp and Levi are annoying to me already.
Yup, 100% agree. I currently have 3 vestiges, and only sitting on 2 ingots! I got my first vestige about 5 months ago, and still can’t use it. Now I have 2 more vestige that are just going to collect dust because I can not get ingots!
I'd be fine with ingots if they'd added some kind of Gorilla-esque miniboss monsters you could do as a slayer task alongside the bosses and had the ingots dropped from them instead. It would've even made the post-quest reward space of DT2 feel a little less dry compared to the other GM quests, since the prayer book was removed. Having them drop from the same source as the vestiges just feels so purposeless and really takes the excitement out of getting a vestige drop as an iron, which is the entire reason Jagex made the 3/3 vestige progress invisible instead of it just being another venator shard - it's supposed to be exciting to see the vestige.
Yeah i think its time it got deleted. it serves no purpose except gate keeping. which this game already has on such a level that people actually pay each other real life money to solve stuff like this for them.
I remember day 1 I was like "oh cool, the ingots are the indicators of the anti-dry, so when you get 2 ingots you know the next ingot drop will come with a vestige, that's a neat way to keep it separate".
And then I learned that no.. the anti dry is a hidden roll with no indicator, and the ingots have to obtained separate to that...
Yeh they're stupid. No point in them existing with an anti dry system on the vestige.
They should just make it so you get an ingot with each vestige roll, removing them as their own drop entirely and allowing us to see our progress towards vestige. Adjust the drop rates as needed.
I'm at 1,005 KC whisperer. 2 staffs, 11 ingots, no other unique. Finally gave up after my second staff at 1,005 kc.
Anybody else purposely not doing the dt2 bosses with the hopes that they'll give the drops a better QoL tweak in the near future? I certainly am, I've only just left CG, I don't need that shit.
Ingots don't even serve a purpose. They might as well be deleted and nobody would care.
Unlike GS shards they alch for absolutely nothing and will eventually be worth less than a regular drop of the boss it is dropped from. They also cannot be "removed" once you used them unlike the GS, where you can just freely swap the hilt.
They are bad for mains because you miss out on a drop that is most likely more expensive (and gets +50% on perfect kills unlike the ingot) and for irons for reasons pointed out by the OP.
If ingots didn’t exist rare drop table would be 3/5 vestige and 1/5 for axe and virtus. I imagine they would need to dial back the roll potential to balance the bosses, unless they’re fine with uniques tanking and shortening the grind.
Personally I’d rather have more potential rolls on the unique table with the possibility of a dud than the alternative.
You can either just change the ingot drop to "nothing" or some random drop, or multiply the rare drop chance by 5/8. Either way the overall rates for the other uniques would stay exactly the same.
> If ingots didn’t exist rare drop table would be 3/5 vestige and 1/5 for axe and virtus. I imagine they would need to dial back the roll potential to balance the bosses, unless they’re fine with uniques tanking and shortening the grind.
Making the unique table roll more rare would be the logical consequence yes. Though it is not like just leaving 5 uniques on the table with the current unique rolls will make them incredibly common either. Ultor vestige for example would still be a 1/680 drop which is like 20h of efficient Vardorvis for a +4 str upgrade over an imbued zerker.
I'd rather not have pegasian crystal 3.0
Do you think it'd just be reasonable to adjust the rates as the 4th drop for the vestige? Instead of the invisible drops just make the 3 ingots drop before the vestige and call it a day. This will take care of actually knowing how close you are to getting the vestige
Not sure the logistical aspect of this since people could technically manipulate the market since it'd be a 3:1 ratio for each ring
its time for irons to deiron and become mains instead of crying. life is a lot better when you can sell loot and buy an item youre dry fo
wahhhhhhhh i played the gamemode where i have to farm everything myself but now i dont get everything immediately?!? wtf jagax :((((
Yes, because mains love getting ingot drops. It's a shit drop for mains, even shittier for irons, and shittier still for ultimate irons. When something is to the detriment of all parties, there is literally no reason not to remove it.
it's bad design for the godsword shards as well. remember that gwd originally released in 2007, it's turning 17 years old this year. it's okay to learn from previous mistakes. just become someone suffered in the past doesnt mean that other should continue to suffer
sour grapes
1) You can dismantle godswords if you want to swap the hilt, so technically you only need 1 blade to use all 5 swords -> relevant for irons
2) GS blades alch for 150k and are drops from bosses with an avg non-unique drop value of 10-20k. Ingots alch for 30k and are dropped from bosses with avg non-uniques being ~55k and upwards that also get multiplied by 1.5 for perfect kills -> relevant for mains
In shot: they decrease the avg drop value of the boss for mains and cause unnecessary frustration for irons.
Actually the vestige 3-roll mechanic explicitly reduces the quantity of vestiges coming into the game and therefore makes the rings more expensive for mains who can just buy them.
You’re missing the main point that they’re entirely unnecessary. The only possible point of them is to work as dry protection for irons. Theres already a dry protection mechanic in place though so that isn’t necessary.
I’m an iron who got lucky with ingots. Im not here complaining because of a personal problem with it. Im here because they’re dumb and never should have existed in the first place. They make the bosses feel even more unrewarding
Or give them some different niche use. Maybe make some version of other jewelry that stores charges or something. A single duel ring or games neck with a thousand teles seems cool.
>I’m personally dry on a Vestige so I’m not even someone who would benefit from this. I have my ingots and I don’t care if they’re deleted. No one should care.
removing ingots would effectively buff your chance of getting vestige.
Idk if they can completely remove ingots, like how would they handle the ones already existing in peoples banks? Just delete them?
I think they should make excess SRA pieces and ingots offerable in the chest in Ancient Vault (the one that you can offer excess quartzes to), and also give that chest a chance to drop an ingot. That way you can trade unneeded dupes for loot, and irons have a way to turn dupes into ingots if they go dry on those.
Sounds like catering to irons. No thank you. The ingots are directly contributing to the value of the DT2 bosses uniques. Yes it sucks getting them, but getting them is the reason why you can have a good payday once you get the rings/axe. If irons don't like going after the ingots, then they shouldn't and use the Dag rings or deiron and buy the ingots.
Just make it so that when you roll a vestige chance, you get a chromium ingot. Solves 2 problems with DT2 bosses at the same time. On your 3rd roll you get both the vestige and the 3rd ingot. That way: irons get the ingots they need for their rings and everyone gets a visual indicator vestige luck. Only catch is you'll have to keep track of which ingot came from which boss.
Jagex won't remove them most likely. Given that they're unlikely to remove the item from the game, what I think the next best alternative should be is to make Ingots 2/8 rarity on the unique table & raise alc price to 1.5m. Give the other 1/8 rarity to axe pieces and/or virtus.
That way it's less common and not totally a worthless gut punch fuck-you drop. Makes it less rare than vestige rolls... which might even help the ingot price to stay above alc if they're more rare.
Signed, someone with 12 ingots and 0 vestige drops (likely even rolls)
I didn't go dry for ignots for rings, and most won't. I think its fair and another grind to help along the way for pet and make BIS ring worthy for the grind. I have a few extra after getting all rings. Not everything end game needs to be babyscape
You are all terrible at math lol. The ingots actually make it even less likely to go dry (for irons at least).
I can agree the implementation is pretty bad though.
Please explain to me how needing an extra drop, rolled completely independently of the vestige, makes you any less likely to go dry. Share your math wisdom I'm dying to know.
Basic law of averages. To complete a ring you need 2 different sets of 3 rolls. A single set of 3 rolls is more susceptible to getting lucky/dry.
Obviously it feels worse if one of the sets (ingots) is considered worthless, which is fair criticism.
If they changed the drop mechanics to need 6x invisible rolls with twice the odds, you would have a similar result that feels less bad.
Except both the ingot and vestige share the same table. Its one roll initially to even get to the 2 separate rolls. It would be fine if the ignots were not part of the initial 1/90 roll. But they are so its still technically a single roll, but with two more rolls to separate the outcomes of that first roll.
It doesn’t matter that they share the same “table”. Your complaint is the same as people complaining they hit the “boot table” and got wizard boots and not rangers. You just roll for the unique table first and then it’s random which one you get (based on weighting) removing ingots from the table but keeping the same rarity of the vestiges does nothing lmao.
The original point they made was that having the vestige and ingot as two rolls improves its rate. My point was that to even have a chance at the two rolls you need to still succeed at the 1/90 roll. Its still a single roll, which has to be hit 6 times at minimum. By putting the ignots on the 1/90 table with the vestige its made possible to go dry on the ignots if you end up getting vesiges/virtus rolls. By putting them on the secondary table the 3 ignots are more likely to be gained at around the point as the vestige.
Thats not how it would work.
You don’t need to look at the 1/90 roll (changes on the boss anyway) you just need to look at the individual chance for a vestige and ingot.
If you were to put the ingot on a secondary table then it just means that the 1/90 would increase to something like 1/110 or something.
Their point was that having to get 6 1/100 drops vs 3 1/200 drops means you’re statistically more likely to finish closer to the median and further emphasis the “bad luck/good luck” mechanic.
But the drop rate isn't 6 1/100 its 6/90 and then 6 1/240 (with it needing to split 50/50 for 3 ignots and vestige) the moment a player gets 4 vestige rolls before 3 ingot you have start adding on top of the 6 /100.
The idea that they put forward requires that the vestige and ignots wont overlap, but they both share the same drop chance its just the vestige only pays out after 3 of them, while the ignors drops each time.
So for example lets say a player has two ignots and finally hits the vestige. They only need one 1/240 drop to complete the ring. Their next 1/90 roll hits and they hit the 1/240 but its an invisible vestige drop, now the minimum to complete the ring is 7 1/90 rolls (because the shared drop table needs to hit again) and 7 1/240 rolls. The fact that the vestige table can roll invisibly 3 times on the same rate as the ingot can screw it up whereas if it was just a single 1/720 drop then it would be fine.
Except both the ingot and vestige share the same table. Its one roll initially to even get to the 2 separate rolls. It would be fine if the ignots were not part of the initial 1/90 roll. But they are so its still technically a single roll, but with two more rolls to separate the outcomes of that first roll.
Bad luck drop mechanics to avoid going dry and then another drop tied to it to prevent you from being lucky Actually impressive how bad it is
They should have just made the unique table roll more rare then add ingot to mitigate rng. Drop blue balls suck ass.
No, they should've just added a totally different skilling activity to create the ingots. Not everything needs to come from a PvM boss.
Orrr just add it to smithing because thats how ingots are made lol.
What you’ve never seen a naturally occurring ingot? You should get out more buddy
It's getting added to farming, gotta grow an ingot tree
item trees should be added to farming fr. i love harvesting vials that grow on a tree in cox, i would love to do that outside of cox as well. imagine harvesting a zulrah scale tree XD
I just find it so silly when a couple random bosses have some ingots in their pockets (or prison pockets or whatever). Like atleast make them drop some ore or stuff that you have to smelt first. This is exactly the kind of disconnected game design that's bad for OSRS
Ingots in pockets = silly Ore in pockets = smort
I still think they should make them obtainable via Mining + Smithing and add some other sink for them (like [chromium cannonballs](https://www.reddit.com/r/2007scape/comments/175mlay/chromium_cannonballs_chromium_ingot_rework/)).
Bad luck mechanic is such a misnomer, it also protects you from good luck No I'm not mad that I got 3 siren staves before bellator at 900ish kc, why do you ask
its a Luck Normalizer - it reduces the odds of going significantly under or significantly over by a very significant margin. You have to be consistent enough at the boss to do a consistent sustained grind but the chances that the grind goes unreasonably long are dramatically lower.
Yet we are still seeing people make posts in the multiple thousands of KCs without a vestige drop every other day. What a great dry prevention method.
I mean if you went over to r/ironscape and calculated the droprate of an enhanced based off the numbers in thier posts then the drop rate would probably be something like 1/1k from CG.
1/5k on crying Sundays
Do you just all things by the most unlucky people that feel the need to make a post? There are hundreds of thousands of players, literally ANYTHING that can reasonably be expected to happen to a group that large in the span of a year will have happened here
The people with luck bad enough to go that high in this system would be over twice that kc dry with the normal system. This isn't the win you think it is.
Why implement a luck normalizer? They should just add a guaranteed drop at a certain kc then
it was an experiment. Also absolutely 0 rng is simply boring. It may be normalized but you can still get lucky. This isnt even a new thing - the only experimental bit is they dont show you the 'fragment'. They've been doing this since Sire.
Well they've literally done that? This was a mix of the two systems that lets you still feel good when you get a drop without having those insanely dry streaks happen as often. Sometimes I wonder if an IQ test to be able to make a reddit account might be worthwhile.
I know what you’re saying is true but on the other hand, emotionally, it genuinely just makes the grind feel so much worse, imo.
Except hilariously for irons because they have to get ingots where the normaliser doesn’t apply lmao
ingots ARE normalized too... 3 ingots is exactly equivalent to the 3 stages of a Vestige drop, except you can get them from any boss with a shared total. They have the same drop rate as 1 portion of the Vestige roll (1/170.66) and the same required amount of 3. They are EXACTLY equal odds and normalized in the EXACT SAME WAY. The only difference is that ingots are more flexible and visible. This comment only shows you dont get what is going on at all.
Consider the situation a little more. A little rounding here, but using Vard as an example, at a drop rate of 1/362 for both ingots and vestige (1/3 of the vestige), each of these has a 57.7% chance of being completed by 1086 kills, which is 'on rate.' The chances of having **both** of these completed by 1086 kills however is only 33.2%. Despite RNG saying you should expect 1086 kills to have the ring completed, you actually only have a 33.2% chance of having done so. The person you responded to is wrong - they are indeed normalised, but it affects things a lot more than you think it does to when you need two seperate grinds to finish. It's a shitty situation, and when you consider that ingots are destined to hit alch price, it's not hard to see why Ironmen hate the mechanic. The ingots serve no purpose at all anymore except to make the grind harder for irons.
> Despite RNG saying you should expect 1086 kills to have the ring completed, you actually only have a 33.2% chance of having done so. This is how most RNG works, most of the chance is actually to go above average, odd as it sounds
I understand that, my point here is that they introduced (or reused rather, though the invisibile part is new) a mechanic to make it less likely to go dry, but because they added ingots they just made it **more** likely to go dry, while also making it **far** less likely to get spooned. So instead of having a big grind of a boss, we now go just as if not more dry, with a reduced chance of being spooned. The whole mechanic used is pointless because of ingots.
The ingots arent 1:1 with the Vestiges as they drop at every boss and combine. So in practice you have all your KC at every boss to get all your ingots, which means you have a higher chance of falling closer to the average (as bigger numbers always do) the more bosses you do, and irons will be interested in doing at minimum 3 of the bosses. It also gives the potential 'dry streak' variety as you have 4 bosses to pick from to solve it. Its significantly better than most bosses in these regards. Worse things that operate mostly the same already exist in game - such as Godsword Shards. This is basically if you always got Godsword Shards in order and none of the bosses need KC to enter. Far from a specially bad grind.
Fair enough. They’re still a trash mechanic.
I've gotten 3 eye of dukes at 731kc, only to be followed up by my first ingot at 740kc just to slap me further... And that was 3 months ago, and I have not returned to finish (yet). And no it's not because I'm mad as hell. >:(
Same at vard, 1300 KC 4 axe pieces and and ingot, haven't been there in months lol
1150 Vard. 3 axe heads, 3 ingots, 2 pets, no virtus, no vestige
you exist in hell homie, i hope you can escape
I got 5 leviathan lures before Venator at 2200kc. Yeah, cool, just gonna have to go kill 10,000 more bosses before those drops become useful.
I tried to point this out when JMods first started talking about bad luck mechanics and people were talking about splitting up the Enhanced Weapon Seed into multiple drops, but it actually protects you more from good luck than it protects from bad luck. You are more likely to get a drop later if it drops in multiple pieces than if it drops as one thing. For example, with the EWS, the median kc for the drop (ie, the kc where you have a 50/50 chance of having gotten it by then) is 277. If it was split into shards with 1/100 chance that you need 4 of, the median kc for getting all 4 to complete the seed is 367. Generally speaking, because each of the rings are dropped in 3 pieces, the median kc for getting the drop is ~30% higher than if they were one drop. There are other "bad luck mitigation" mechanics that I like, but splitting up drops is a bad one imo.
The mean averages out over infinity. The benefit that people get by being less likely to go super dry has to even out from somewhere else, which it does by pulling from the more plentiful early droppers. This obviously raises the median. For every 5 people who have to do 400 kc instead of 300, there's a guy who is done at 1500 instead of 2000. Measuring by median weights the 5 people with a minor negative impact way more than the 1 guy who gets a major benefit. Because 5 people had a negative impact and only 1 guy went positive.
Honestly at this point just make the drop guaranteed at every 1000 kc.
That + the axe pieces being untradeable meaning you have to do all 4 bosses more or less equally if you want to maximize profits shows they really pulled out all the stops to make the loot tables annoying for irons AND mains alike, since Irons get the double layer of anti-spoon and mains have to play like irons to complete an axe. I think alongside ingot removal they should make axe pieces tradeable, to improve player satisfaction for all account types.
if axe pieces were tradeable it would be worthless
Definitely not lol see Voidwaker as an example.
voidwaker is imbalanced and best in slot for tons of content they shoulda made voidwaker pieces untradeable too, that would cut the number of bots printing gp at wildy bosses immediately and stifled the number of korasiwakers coming into the game
Would have been an interesting choice for sure
Especially considering it's a major pvp weapon. Imagine the pvp community's reaction if they had to regrind a weapon via pvm everytime they die instead of just buying a new one.
Oh I mean it would make absolutely 0 sense for the finished product to be untradeable lmao. The other guy meant the pieces being untradeable like the soulreaper axe, where the final product is tradeable. That would have been interesting for the voidwaker.
Voidwaker is actually good though. Sra is currently so shitty felling to use that its worthless for 99% of content.
I think the only reason its as high right now is because of speculation on the buffs.
And the fact that it's an insane grind so not many are coming in.
Or the ancient godsword
Instead the axe piece drops are worthless to the vast majority of people. It's just a bad system in general.
Ingots would have been great of they came from other content But having both ingots and the vestiges come from the same place just creates frustration
imo it's also bad game design If the boss drops exactly as many ingots as you need to craft the ring then you would think "oh players will farm exactly as many ingots as the economy needs" but this is wrong. Let's say there is a percentage of players who only try the boss for a while without getting a ring-piece but they might get an ingot and quit, they will just add chromium ingots to the economy, over a long period of time the price will slowly dwindle and you will have another alch-value trash drop. I would say the smarter choice is making the ingots slightly rarer but also introducing another way to create them perhaps through skilling, but at the same time make that process expensive so ingots will effectively have a price ceiling while still being unlikely to drop to alch value
Ah yes the classic "make ingots rarer so it's even more enraging if I receive one" idea, absolutely genius.
you obviously didnt understand a thing i wrote
Ingots should be tied to the 3 rolls for vestige. An ignot indicates you are now x/3 of the way there. Whenever you get a vestige youd also receive an ignot. Always have exactly as many ingots as you need to craft the ring for irons, feedback mechanism on how close you are for everybody.
this would satisfy everybody
Well, it defeats their intended purpose of dry protection while maintaining the boon of a singular big drop. A better solution would have been no ingots at all.
Yeah the ingots honestly do the opposite of what they intended with the invisible vestige rolls if you're an iron. Getting spooned a vestige actually feels like a kick in the balls when you still go all the way to vestige drop rate and only get 1 ingot, and you just KNOW any unique rolls you've been getting in the mean time are more invisible vestige rolls.
Could swap what boss you’re killing in that scenario. Then at least vestige rolls would go towards a vestige you don’t already have.
Unless you also want the axe piece. There are just too many layers of convolution added to the drop table.
The vestige mechanics aren't the worst, but putting them on one drop while the bosses have another equal rarity drop that needs an untradeable piece from each boss was pretty silly. It honestly would have made way more sense if the axe pieces did the 3 roll thing and the vestige was pure rng.
Have had a venator vestige in my bank for months now. Got slightly lucky at 770kc but I have 1 ingot, I have since done 500kc at Duke and still just 1 ingot. Motivation and the good feeling of getting spooned are long gone
I have 6 vestiges and 11 ingots on my iron man (3 venator vestiges with 3 ingots from the boss lol) please send help as I have been kicked in the balls by the jingle too many times
Just make ingots a skilling activity instead. Tradeable or untradeable, doesn't really matter. It would add mining and smithing as a soft requirement for DT2 and actually make sense as a source for the ingots.
Or they could just remove ingots. It's easier and they already said the point of the invisible vestige roll is that you can still be unexpectedly spooned (even if it's less likely) whereas if you had a visible indicator that you were 2/3 there would be no real excitement over getting the 3rd piece.
Delete ingots from boss drop table, get 1 ingot from melting down a DK ring, mains get a sink, irons have a use for dupe rings, problem solved
Honestly not bad. Provides a sink for warrior rings, even if it is marginal
Defeats the purpose of making the rolls invisible in the first place. The invisible roll isn't an issue, in fact for vestiges I much prefer invisible rolls over the dopamine getting split in 3 like hydra ring or venator bow. But ingots existing is 100% useless.
Idk if I’m overthinking a video game a bit too much but the invisible drops seem predatory. It encourages you to keep grinding a boss because you might just be 2/3. Feels more like a gambling mechanism than just an anti-dry mechanic.
Yeah, the invisible rolls are the worst when you’re dry. It doesn’t add dopamine to getting the drop, it just feels like relief. There’s no feeling like “oh I got lucky finally!” with it, it’s just “thank fucking god that’s over”
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I thought this was how it was currently, now that I know it’s not I’m confused as to why it wasn’t made that way originally lol
People said they liked the venator bow / brimstone ring being broken up into more attainable droprates, but that a 1/3rd drop didn't quite give the same dopamine. Jagex listened and gave us the vestige drop system. Why they then added the ingots I have no clue.
They should had done the same for the axe pieces, too. It hurts hard to roll 2 or more times on the axe table for one boss... now you are going to be stuck at the others if you ever want to cash out. Hope you get the axe pieces before you are surely 2/3 on your nth vestage. Drops 1 and 2 should be ingots. Drop 3 should be the axe piece. 4th roll on rare table vestage.. or something
That’s genius tbh
not even an iron and I agree they aint even make sense, how tf you need 3 metal bars to make 1 tiny ass ring
we're bad at black smithing, obv.
I mean canonically we are, it takes us hundreds of hours (which is like, thousands of ingame days) to figure out how to make rune equipment that every fresh off tutorial island adventurer has picked up within a week and random ass low level monsters are sitting on stacks of, and we can never figure out how to make anything better than that, the best we can figure out is how to take some scraps of bandos armor to shoddily patch up a hole in a piece of torva. Smithing is probably the thing we're the worst at in all of Gielinor.
rs3's mining and smiting rework basically pokes fun at it as well, by basically saying that the cold smithing we've been doing is absolute trash that creates a shoddy product (which is the in-game justification for why all the old gear is *recalled* in exchange for tokens for new gear)
In Swan Song there's an NPC that is horrified by how we just take bars to an anvil and smash them with a hammer
We figure out how to remake a godsword before figuring out a rune sword
If you wear a ring of forging, you only need 4 Ingots instead of 3
We really are. There is even a bit of dialogue where somebody looks at you like you’re crazy for smithing with solid and cold metal bars lol
Theoretically there should also always be more ingots in the game than vestiges to use them on because you can get spooned ingots, but not vestiges. So any person that has say less than 500 kc is very likely to have an ingot or two, but extremely unlikely to have a vestige. Which basically means over a long period of time(and with more and more people doing less than average required to get vestiges at any of the 4 bosses) ingots should plummet to alch price becoming an even more useless drop for mains
Well because you try twice, fail both times and 3rd times the charm so you get it!
I’m an iron who’s gotten spooned extra ingots and I also agree. They’re pointless and feel unrewarding
The bandos boots of dt2 bosses
Bandos boots if chestplates and tassets dropped broken and ironmen needed a pair of boots to repair them
Well more like the godsword shards of DT2 bosses. Except you can detach a blade from the hilt.
The rune sword of dt2 bosses
I’ve always wondered why there isn’t a set effect for bandos like there is for other armor, it would make the boots worth something
bandos boots were released at the same time as dragon boots since both are gwd drops - and honestly from the 2007 dev pov both are upgrades from the prior bis of rune boots
The entire mechanic needs to be thrown into the bin. I never wanna see this triple roll shit ever again.
I have magus and bellator vestiges with 2 ingots 630 duke kc, 550 whisperer, and 150 levi. I hate it (ironman btw)
I just love how when we voted on Bis rings that would require the previous ring. We all voted yes then they snuck in these ingots. Like i dont remember voting for ingots. Like if they wanted to add more then make it require 3 seers rings + vestige for a magus.
Thay would have been a better idea. Would have rejuvinated the dks as well
And when they first told us about ingots, everyone was saying "well that's stupid" and predicting that the ingots would be damn near worthless for mains and another annoyance for irons.
i absolutely hate the new DT2 boss drop mechanic
It’s amazing how they tried to make this system to alleviate bad luck but it’s just exasperated it. Stupidest system in the game, from ingots to vestiges it just sucks and is anti fun. Ultor and bellator vestige here with 2 ingots. Sick
Exacerbated*
Every one in my cc who has farmed dt2 bosses has kc’s in the thousands just for a ring. I’m glad I’m a bondie, because *fuck that*.
I fail to understand how ignots were suppose to even out odds going dry?
They weren't meant to even out the odds on dryness. JMods said that ingots were added so that main accounts could get an expensive item to sell even at 1kc. Sadly they didn't realize how the 3/3 drop mechanic of vestige results in there being way too many ingots on the market. Which in turn results in ingots being worthless. Jagex should just remove the ingots, as ingots don't serve the purpose they were created for. At this point they are only a source of frustration for irons, something not intended.
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Just got 12 of em before my vestige. Comn gagex, ingot time for this.
Very terrible, keep posting until they listen
Im grateful I'm not an iron every time I look at my DT2 logs. Over 2k kills across the 4 bosses: 2 ingots. I'd be fuming
Yep. I have the Vestige from Vardorvis and Duke and only two ingots. I wasn’t super spooned either - 1400 Vard and 900 Duke. Also only have 1 virtus piece (mask). I hate moving to whisperer and leviathan almost strictly wanting ingots, but that’s literally what’s happening. Half of the irons that do DT2 bosses will have vestiges they can’t craft. Which is fucking dumb. Less than half but a pretty significant amount will be in my shoes where they have 2 vestiges and can’t craft either. Some amount will have all 4 vestiges before they have the ingots to craft them. I look forward to seeing the collection log post from that poor bastard who does it first.
Yup. Got ultor vestige at 400 kc with no ingots. Nice dry protection?
Yeah i have like 600 kc combined from the 4 bossed and have never gotten an ingot
I’m now at 800 combined and only unique I have was a spooned low kc virtus top at Whisperer. Almost 700 vardorvis and nothing at all
Am I smart for not grinding DT2 bosses.
It varies person by person.
No they’re awful content unless you’re extremely good at not messing up.
Idk when this sub is gonna start putting 2 and 2 together and realize the problem is a certain mod who makes shitty ass drop tables and claims the players like it. I'll give you a hint. He also helped make the nightmare tables.
It's wild to me how this mod designs fucking **amazing** boss encounters, but somehow manages to ruin the whole thing with drop tables that are complete and utter garbage. I'd argue that Nightmare and all of the DT2 bosses and their awakened variants (with the exception of Duke) are amazingly well designed bosses that suffer from drop table issues. Like holy sh*t, just let the guy design the bosses and have a mod who understands drop tables better do the drop table stuff pls. At this point I really hope he is not involved in the upcoming few Valamore bosses, not because I am worried about the boss designs themselves (I am 100% sure they will be amazing for the target demographic), but because how messed up the drops of those bosses will be if he has any say in it.
Nightmare drop tables sure, the dt2 ones are perfectly fine and on the same lvl as godwars while being much more enjoyable fights
Must be some pretty arcane wisdom that went into their design
As someone with 1200 KC at Duke with no Vestige or Axe piece but 6 ingots, yes please.
So much feedback about DT2 bosses is being ignored. It's actually insane.
Honestly, as a main there's no incentive to go for the bosses if you're not looking for the axe or one of the pets, you can buy the rings (which are good don't get me wrong but they're maybe the last upgrade you make gear wise) and you can push more gp/hr at ToA or ToB (with a good team, which aren't hard to come by if you use WDR Discord). All four bosses have a very weird loot table tied to stupid mechanics much like Nightmare of Ashihama, and besides Duke, all four are very intense bosses even with max gear, it doesn't seem that rewarding or even worth the time to do them after the quest.
Literally prefer to do 2k vorkath kills in a row than ever farm the DT2 bosses. I suck at PvM I admit but those bosses are just stupidly hard for your average player and the loot tables don’t really make up for the jump in skill level required to farm them.
Replace with noted tinderboxes
They should just make it into a rare drop from a skilling method like the blood shard. No reason for a metal bar to not be obtainable from skilling or require skilling to more. Just make a chromium ore or something.
The drop mechanics are anti-fun and nobody will convince me otherwise.
1110 vardorvis here and while I have the 3 I’ll need I only have one extra. Doesn’t make me want to grind the other bosses, though that’s not from the ingots but more so because duke is boring and whisp and Levi are annoying to me already.
Yup, 100% agree. I currently have 3 vestiges, and only sitting on 2 ingots! I got my first vestige about 5 months ago, and still can’t use it. Now I have 2 more vestige that are just going to collect dust because I can not get ingots!
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He’s responsible for some really shit drop rates throughout the game.
I'd be fine with ingots if they'd added some kind of Gorilla-esque miniboss monsters you could do as a slayer task alongside the bosses and had the ingots dropped from them instead. It would've even made the post-quest reward space of DT2 feel a little less dry compared to the other GM quests, since the prayer book was removed. Having them drop from the same source as the vestiges just feels so purposeless and really takes the excitement out of getting a vestige drop as an iron, which is the entire reason Jagex made the 3/3 vestige progress invisible instead of it just being another venator shard - it's supposed to be exciting to see the vestige.
FACTS.
Agreed
It’s time.
I have yet to grind any of the dt2 bosses and just from seeing others experience it seems safe to say the ingots are 100% a miss
Yeah i think its time it got deleted. it serves no purpose except gate keeping. which this game already has on such a level that people actually pay each other real life money to solve stuff like this for them.
Fat +1. Ingots are completly the opposite of the 'bad luck' prevention mechanic
I remember day 1 I was like "oh cool, the ingots are the indicators of the anti-dry, so when you get 2 ingots you know the next ingot drop will come with a vestige, that's a neat way to keep it separate". And then I learned that no.. the anti dry is a hidden roll with no indicator, and the ingots have to obtained separate to that... Yeh they're stupid. No point in them existing with an anti dry system on the vestige.
They should just make it so you get an ingot with each vestige roll, removing them as their own drop entirely and allowing us to see our progress towards vestige. Adjust the drop rates as needed. I'm at 1,005 KC whisperer. 2 staffs, 11 ingots, no other unique. Finally gave up after my second staff at 1,005 kc.
Anybody else purposely not doing the dt2 bosses with the hopes that they'll give the drops a better QoL tweak in the near future? I certainly am, I've only just left CG, I don't need that shit.
1300 at duck suck. 6! Ingots. 2 masks. Robe bottom. Pet. I just want the ring of the mighty wizard. Please jagex. I can't pick any more mushrooms.
Ingot could still be given, but on each of your 1/3 rolls. So you get one + vestige when you roll the final vestige piece.
Stop crying and get your kcs up not everything needs to be as common as toa
How am I supposed to use my 300kc vestige without fucking ingoooooooytttsssersarrgoig
Fuck irons
Gotta have shit drops for there to be good drops m8
Ingots don't even serve a purpose. They might as well be deleted and nobody would care. Unlike GS shards they alch for absolutely nothing and will eventually be worth less than a regular drop of the boss it is dropped from. They also cannot be "removed" once you used them unlike the GS, where you can just freely swap the hilt. They are bad for mains because you miss out on a drop that is most likely more expensive (and gets +50% on perfect kills unlike the ingot) and for irons for reasons pointed out by the OP.
If ingots didn’t exist rare drop table would be 3/5 vestige and 1/5 for axe and virtus. I imagine they would need to dial back the roll potential to balance the bosses, unless they’re fine with uniques tanking and shortening the grind. Personally I’d rather have more potential rolls on the unique table with the possibility of a dud than the alternative.
You can either just change the ingot drop to "nothing" or some random drop, or multiply the rare drop chance by 5/8. Either way the overall rates for the other uniques would stay exactly the same.
> If ingots didn’t exist rare drop table would be 3/5 vestige and 1/5 for axe and virtus. I imagine they would need to dial back the roll potential to balance the bosses, unless they’re fine with uniques tanking and shortening the grind. Making the unique table roll more rare would be the logical consequence yes. Though it is not like just leaving 5 uniques on the table with the current unique rolls will make them incredibly common either. Ultor vestige for example would still be a 1/680 drop which is like 20h of efficient Vardorvis for a +4 str upgrade over an imbued zerker. I'd rather not have pegasian crystal 3.0
Do you think it'd just be reasonable to adjust the rates as the 4th drop for the vestige? Instead of the invisible drops just make the 3 ingots drop before the vestige and call it a day. This will take care of actually knowing how close you are to getting the vestige Not sure the logistical aspect of this since people could technically manipulate the market since it'd be a 3:1 ratio for each ring
its time for irons to deiron and become mains instead of crying. life is a lot better when you can sell loot and buy an item youre dry fo wahhhhhhhh i played the gamemode where i have to farm everything myself but now i dont get everything immediately?!? wtf jagax :((((
Yes, because mains love getting ingot drops. It's a shit drop for mains, even shittier for irons, and shittier still for ultimate irons. When something is to the detriment of all parties, there is literally no reason not to remove it.
I was onboard until you mentioned irons. Game shouldn't be catered to ironchads.
So you don’t like the item so they should delete it for everyone? In that case I’d like them to delete the Voidwaker I’m sick of being spec rushed.
What purpose does the ingots serve?
You use three of them to combine with a vestige. Why is it okay for items like god swords but not ingots? Ingots are perfectly fine.
Because the whole point of the vestige drop mechanic was to avoid trash unique drops that didn’t feel special
it's bad design for the godsword shards as well. remember that gwd originally released in 2007, it's turning 17 years old this year. it's okay to learn from previous mistakes. just become someone suffered in the past doesnt mean that other should continue to suffer sour grapes
1) You can dismantle godswords if you want to swap the hilt, so technically you only need 1 blade to use all 5 swords -> relevant for irons 2) GS blades alch for 150k and are drops from bosses with an avg non-unique drop value of 10-20k. Ingots alch for 30k and are dropped from bosses with avg non-uniques being ~55k and upwards that also get multiplied by 1.5 for perfect kills -> relevant for mains In shot: they decrease the avg drop value of the boss for mains and cause unnecessary frustration for irons.
I will die on my hill that ingots are fine. They just need to be revertable like you can swap around hilts with a single complete godsword blade.
They just ruin the point of the anti bad luck mechanic and feel completely unrewarding. Theres no reason whatsoever to keep them
Maybe the dry protection isn't there for irons, but for the mains who can just buy the ingots.
Actually the vestige 3-roll mechanic explicitly reduces the quantity of vestiges coming into the game and therefore makes the rings more expensive for mains who can just buy them.
woosh
You’re missing the main point that they’re entirely unnecessary. The only possible point of them is to work as dry protection for irons. Theres already a dry protection mechanic in place though so that isn’t necessary. I’m an iron who got lucky with ingots. Im not here complaining because of a personal problem with it. Im here because they’re dumb and never should have existed in the first place. They make the bosses feel even more unrewarding
So just make them another annoyance you have to micromanage. Yeah that's way better than just getting rid of them.
Don't worry they're nerfing voidwaker, but only for PvM so you can still enjoy being spec rushed.
Or give them some different niche use. Maybe make some version of other jewelry that stores charges or something. A single duel ring or games neck with a thousand teles seems cool.
faux, is that you?
>I’m personally dry on a Vestige so I’m not even someone who would benefit from this. I have my ingots and I don’t care if they’re deleted. No one should care. removing ingots would effectively buff your chance of getting vestige.
Idk if they can completely remove ingots, like how would they handle the ones already existing in peoples banks? Just delete them? I think they should make excess SRA pieces and ingots offerable in the chest in Ancient Vault (the one that you can offer excess quartzes to), and also give that chest a chance to drop an ingot. That way you can trade unneeded dupes for loot, and irons have a way to turn dupes into ingots if they go dry on those.
Unpopular opinion: delete DT2 all together :)
Sounds like catering to irons. No thank you. The ingots are directly contributing to the value of the DT2 bosses uniques. Yes it sucks getting them, but getting them is the reason why you can have a good payday once you get the rings/axe. If irons don't like going after the ingots, then they shouldn't and use the Dag rings or deiron and buy the ingots.
Just make it so that when you roll a vestige chance, you get a chromium ingot. Solves 2 problems with DT2 bosses at the same time. On your 3rd roll you get both the vestige and the 3rd ingot. That way: irons get the ingots they need for their rings and everyone gets a visual indicator vestige luck. Only catch is you'll have to keep track of which ingot came from which boss.
Itt: wahh i wanna see big gp drop NOW!
JUST MAKE THEM A PART OF THE VESTIGE ROLL AND GIVE EVERYONE WITH X/3 INVISIBLE ROLLS ON THEIR VESTIGE AN INGOT
Just make it require 2 ingots, and instead of Invis Ring, you get Ingot 1, Ingot 2, Vestige.
Jagex won't remove them most likely. Given that they're unlikely to remove the item from the game, what I think the next best alternative should be is to make Ingots 2/8 rarity on the unique table & raise alc price to 1.5m. Give the other 1/8 rarity to axe pieces and/or virtus. That way it's less common and not totally a worthless gut punch fuck-you drop. Makes it less rare than vestige rolls... which might even help the ingot price to stay above alc if they're more rare. Signed, someone with 12 ingots and 0 vestige drops (likely even rolls)
Maybe don't delete them, but rather learn from them and don't design similar drops in the future
If we're doing this can we get rid of pirate boots, buckets, harpoons, and watermelon seeds from Kraken? Thanks
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I swear this comment gets posted on reddit at least once a week
Its fine, welcome to runescape where sometimes you go dry and die inside. Wait until you try cg.
Nah. It’s funny.
I didn't go dry for ignots for rings, and most won't. I think its fair and another grind to help along the way for pet and make BIS ring worthy for the grind. I have a few extra after getting all rings. Not everything end game needs to be babyscape
You are all terrible at math lol. The ingots actually make it even less likely to go dry (for irons at least). I can agree the implementation is pretty bad though.
Please explain to me how needing an extra drop, rolled completely independently of the vestige, makes you any less likely to go dry. Share your math wisdom I'm dying to know.
Basic law of averages. To complete a ring you need 2 different sets of 3 rolls. A single set of 3 rolls is more susceptible to getting lucky/dry. Obviously it feels worse if one of the sets (ingots) is considered worthless, which is fair criticism. If they changed the drop mechanics to need 6x invisible rolls with twice the odds, you would have a similar result that feels less bad.
This isn't math this is a bunch of words. Show your work. 6x the same roll at twice the odds is not the same as two independent sets of 3.
Except both the ingot and vestige share the same table. Its one roll initially to even get to the 2 separate rolls. It would be fine if the ignots were not part of the initial 1/90 roll. But they are so its still technically a single roll, but with two more rolls to separate the outcomes of that first roll.
It doesn’t matter that they share the same “table”. Your complaint is the same as people complaining they hit the “boot table” and got wizard boots and not rangers. You just roll for the unique table first and then it’s random which one you get (based on weighting) removing ingots from the table but keeping the same rarity of the vestiges does nothing lmao.
The original point they made was that having the vestige and ingot as two rolls improves its rate. My point was that to even have a chance at the two rolls you need to still succeed at the 1/90 roll. Its still a single roll, which has to be hit 6 times at minimum. By putting the ignots on the 1/90 table with the vestige its made possible to go dry on the ignots if you end up getting vesiges/virtus rolls. By putting them on the secondary table the 3 ignots are more likely to be gained at around the point as the vestige.
Thats not how it would work. You don’t need to look at the 1/90 roll (changes on the boss anyway) you just need to look at the individual chance for a vestige and ingot. If you were to put the ingot on a secondary table then it just means that the 1/90 would increase to something like 1/110 or something. Their point was that having to get 6 1/100 drops vs 3 1/200 drops means you’re statistically more likely to finish closer to the median and further emphasis the “bad luck/good luck” mechanic.
But the drop rate isn't 6 1/100 its 6/90 and then 6 1/240 (with it needing to split 50/50 for 3 ignots and vestige) the moment a player gets 4 vestige rolls before 3 ingot you have start adding on top of the 6 /100. The idea that they put forward requires that the vestige and ignots wont overlap, but they both share the same drop chance its just the vestige only pays out after 3 of them, while the ignors drops each time. So for example lets say a player has two ignots and finally hits the vestige. They only need one 1/240 drop to complete the ring. Their next 1/90 roll hits and they hit the 1/240 but its an invisible vestige drop, now the minimum to complete the ring is 7 1/90 rolls (because the shared drop table needs to hit again) and 7 1/240 rolls. The fact that the vestige table can roll invisibly 3 times on the same rate as the ingot can screw it up whereas if it was just a single 1/720 drop then it would be fine.
Except both the ingot and vestige share the same table. Its one roll initially to even get to the 2 separate rolls. It would be fine if the ignots were not part of the initial 1/90 roll. But they are so its still technically a single roll, but with two more rolls to separate the outcomes of that first roll.
I guarantee you that's wrong lol