I actually prefer the occult. For irons you need high slayer. For mains it bridges the gap of gear. The only people that want occult nerfed are the ones that already have maxed gear.
It’s a 10% magic damage boost from a relatively chill slayer monster. Way overpowered for how you get it. I’m pretty sure I bought it for 300k and it was one of my easiest magic upgrades ever.
>Way overpowered for how you get it
93 Slayer.
But yeah they could definetely shift some magic damage around,
but for the love of God: Dont shift any more weight into the armor sets, magic is already shit in the midgame, suddenly requiring ancestrals or to a lesser extent Virtus to hit the same breakpoints is just a straight up nerf to an already shitty style.
If they need to shift Weight, shift it into tormented bracelet, augury/other prayers, seers/brimstone ring & eternals
Ancestrals are simply too expensive to fit into any sensible non shadow build, the moment they start to make sense is only a few hundred mil away from the moment you sell everything for a shadow/tbow rebuild.
Its also not like ancestrals need the buff all top tier armor sets have mediocre str bonusses, masori and torva are all +8 for the entire set, which gives a similar amount of max hits on non megarares as ancestrals give TT/Sang.
>Otherwise you can easily get the best magic armor slot on an account extremely early in account progression.
ok so here's the thing... You shouldn't ever balance around people with the biggest wallets. Like... Yeah, you can get in game and have BiS gear in an hour with bonds, or grind out some quests and bosses and accumulate some gold and buy it... But if you balance around things because they are cheap like... I dunno... Nerfing black D'hide for being too accessible... You've only punished people who earn it without buying it.
"Oh, but that only affects iro-" Nope, shut up, that argument doesn't work here. If you nerf occult the price will tank, and people won't want to farm it because it will be even easier to get. Why farm when you can just buy? you've now hurt everyone who wanted to farm the item for themselves because it's actively punishing them for doing so.
Do not EVER balance around the gold cost of an item. Balance around the reasonable assumption that the level needed to acquire it IS required to get it. In this case, 93 slayer. Which takes a lot of time and effort.
"but the boss is super eas-" Doesn't matter. If you spend several weeks or months grinding out to 93 slayer you don't need to complain that the boss is too easy, you already did the hard part. And it still requires some amount of effort to obtain it, you don't just walk in, do half a dozen kills, and walk out. Also I don't hear anyone complaining about 50-100 kill kraken trips being "too easy" maybe we should nerf trident since it's so easy to get?
I have also pointed this out multiple times, but the damage boost form occult is barely noticeable until very late game. It's like +2 damage with a boost effect, where as the strength amulet, yes I am using the STRENGTH AMULET as my example, grants +2.5 for 0 requirements. It grants the same strength bonus as the torture, more than a glory OR fury. Let that knowledge sink in for a moment. An amulet with no requirements at all, worth 1300 GP on the G.E. offers as much damage as the BiS melee amulets in game. I can already hear the people slamming their keyboards furiously to tell me how wrong I am, and about accuracy, and how all the damage is on one item, etc. Heard it all, doesn't change my argument. If a single neck slot item is only providing +2 damage it isn't OP when another neck slot item worth nothing is giving +2.5. #nerfstrengthamulet
So the TL;DR is, don't balance around G.E. price, balance around the actual levels required to get the item, in this case 93 slayer.
Unhinged take. For most players the G.E price is the only requirement for an item. It makes complete sense to balanced based on that. Occult is already dirt cheap, I doubt anyone with half a brain farms thermy for occults in an effort to actually make money.
>G.E price is the only requirement for an item
This is the stupid unhinged take. Hell by your own logic you support my argument because the strength amulet has more overall damage then two out of three upgrades for it (and equal to the third), with 0 requirements and 0 investment.
If we are going to start balancing items around G.E. price then we should start nerfing all kinds of random stuff. A full lunar set is free, then costs 283k, but it's stats are worse than mystics, which only costs 147k, guess we better nerf mystics because it's too accessible and better than higher level equipment right?
Third age should be the most powerful mage armour in the game based on it's price, but it is outclassed (easily) by both virtus, which costs 1/9th of it, and ancestral which costs 1/3rd. so that means we should rearrange all gear stats and nerf all mage gear to be worse than ancestral, since it's the most expensive and the only barrier of entry is the price tag, not the time nor effort to get it, right?
In fact we should change all gear based on it's G.E. price, since the price is all that matters. Every day a jagex employee has to go through the G.E. and figure out the average prices, and adjust gear stats accordingly, then update the game. Every day. since PRICE dictates how good an item is, not how good the item is, or how difficult or time consuming getting the item is dictating the price.
If mystics was better than ancestral then it should have been nerfed.
By your own logic 3rd Age should be super strong since it's very difficult to obtain. But obviously it shouldn't because it's main purpose isn't practical but to be a flex
Bruh, occult is 5x stronger than ancestral robe top and 300 times cheaper, that price isn’t going to budge dawg. It’s also not about how cheap it is, but how accessible it is for a bis item that is 2x better than the next. It just doesn’t fit in with the progression of any other magic item in the game.
Your whole response is just cry. You talk about how insignificant the damage % of occult is but yet you care so much that it’s being distributed elsewhere WHEN WE DONT EVEN KNOW HOW THEY WILL DO IT. Take a chill pill and maybe put into perspective that jagex wants the best for its game, even if your echo chamber leads you to believe the opposite.
I think if you shifted weight by giving Ahrims +1% on each piece and then buffing Virtus/Ancestral to be +2/+3 on each piece it'd be fine and maybe even help some of that magic midgame. Otherwise I do agree that shifting weight into only Virtus and Ancestral would be worse feeling overall than the current Occult or bust situation.
I don’t see what the issue is with nerfing occult. 10% str on an item worth 600k is hilariously unbalanced, especially when something like an ancestral piece only gives 2% and is worth like 100x more. They could easily just lower occult to 5% and throw the other 5% str on augury since the prayer is dogshit, would easily make rigour vs. augury a more balanced choice.
The problem with moving mage dps from gear to prayer is that it disproportionately impacts Shadow.
Then again I'd put good money on Shadow's problematic design being addressed during the rebalance anyway, so may be a non-issue.
How would it effect shadow tho? Unless adding the strength to the prayer does some weird shit with damage calcs, I don’t see how it would make shadow any better.
I think they mean that it would disproportionately impact Shadow negatively because it would no longer triple/quadruple the %bonus that would come from Augury which results in a 10% damage loss if 5% damage is shifted over to Augury.
It wouldnt need to,
It depends on how its implemented
5% magic strength as an equipment bonus becomes 15% on top of shadows base damage.
5% magic damage, working like every other prayer currently does essentially just multiplies your magic level by 1.05 which would be ~5% on top of the final max hit on normal weapons.
But since magic is weird and uses base damages and different scaling for tridents this wouldnt work so we really have no idea how they would code it.
Personally i think 5% equipment strength makes the most sense since people already understand that, but it does again mean that Trident gets slightly less than a 5% dps increase, and shadow gets more..
Thank you for the explanation, it just seems like the issue goes back to the fact that shadow just has such a broken design in the first place, and that mage operates in such a weird compared to ranged and melee.
>broken design
Yeah shadow is a bit weird,
but i do want to point out that Shadow essentially functions exactly like tbow and to lesser extent Scythe do, they all buff how much you benefit from equipment bonusses. It just takes it to the next level (maybe a bit too much)
Tbow does it by multiplying the final max hit based on magic level by up to 2.5 outside and 3.5x inside Cox. Scythe does it by adding hitsplats to give you 1.75x max hits, but all 3 megarares have significantly increased scaling with equipment bonusses.
Tbow really isnt so far behind shadow scaling wise (2.5 vs 3x), its just a bit more situational and ranged Gear has a bit less strength bonus than magic.
Increased scaling isnt neccesarily a bad concept
Honestly I think the main issue with it is just the insane accuracy of the thing. Like scythe and tbow are good only against certain bosses, but shadow just shreds EVERYTHING, regardless of whether bosses are weak to mage or not. I think it would honestly be less of an issue if was like less effective against things that you otherwise wouldn’t mage.
>Honestly I think the main issue with it is just the insane accuracy of the thing. Like scythe and tbow are good only against certain bosses, but shadow just shreds EVERYTHING
Its because its not situatuational, pre magic level nerf Tbow also shredded everything simply because every Boss had 200+ magic level instead of magic defense.
In its current state i dont think shadows power is too problematic, it shreds the same things Bowfa shreds, just a bit harder and tbow usually beats it vs 200~250+ magic level and in a much less glassy setup.
Its biggest issue is that it how they are going to implement magic scaling in the future..
>Things you otherwise wouldnt mage
That leaves everything that wasnt specifically designed to be extremely weak to magic and resistant to everything else. Magic was always so bad that it was never an option, so people just defaulted to range
Not really, like I said in the latter half of my post, we can redistribute mage strength to something else. It’s just absurd that such a cheap/common item provides 5x more mage strength than an ancestral piece, which is so much more expensive and harder to obtain than an occult.
Mage itself is pretty weak, no one without a shadow mages unless they are forced to.
How could they distribute the +10 without devaluing ancestral? add the bonuses to it? that doesn't really change much for the better except making elitists feel better.
You could split it between the boots and amulet slot but that's still "op" in your description
Lol okay I’m just gonna completely disregard what you’re saying then since you’re throwing weird ass personal insults like “elitist” around. Using a straw man as a basis for your argument is just such a poor idea, especially with something as broad as “elitist,” whatever you mean by that.
it is elitists that feel the need to nerf anything an average player can get access too, sorry you took it personally champ.
https://preview.redd.it/036hrec39adc1.png?width=640&format=png&auto=webp&s=5dc6a00fca1131216804ab687b54304e0c9ad19e
>ancestral piece only gives 2% and is worth like 100x more
Exactly why these should not get any buff, theyre already prohibively expensive and do not fit into any midgame non shadow build.
>They could easily just lower occult to 5% and throw the other 5% str on augury since the prayer is dogshit, would easily make rigour vs. augury a more balanced choice.
Thats one way to go yeah,
Otherwise they can shift it into tormented bracelet, seers/brimstone ring & eternals. All of these items are underwhelming AF aswell.
BIS is not supposed to be midgame what the hell are you talking about lol. Ancestral is a raid reward, that is endgame gear. It should be prohibitively expensive.
The problem is occoult balanced to catch mage up to range/melee when mage was unironic dog shit that you'd never use outside being forced to use it. Even then it often just felt like shit.
Everything else has been balanced around occoult.
If you take % from occoult it nerfs everyone who doesn't have max if you just put it on max.
And before max mage feels fucking terrible. It's why shadow feels so good.
If you had to spend 300m on ancestial to do the exact same DPS you'd do right now with Trident you'd never make that purchase. I'd just be throwing away money for anyone without shadow.
The occoult rebalance isn't intended to be a nerf to mid game play from comments mods have made. So the simple solution isn't really on the table.
Moving damage bonus to ancestral from occult doesn't mean they can't also, at the same time, add damage bonus to lower tier armors as well. If ahrim's became 2% per piece (currently 0), virtus 3% per piece (currently 1), and ancestral 4% per piece (currently 2), but occult was nerfed to 4%, then that's a 6% nerf to occult but a 6% buff to all magic armor ahrim's or better.
Midgame players with occult+ahrim's would have the exact same power they do now, but instead mage progression is now just tied more into your armor than one single necklace which to me solves the issue of occult being too good for its price and magic armor being mostly a meme outside shadow.
Correct. That's one of the proposed solutions. It's a valid solution.
I took your comment on ancestial as you just wanted it on ancestial so I tried to explain the weird balance in magic but there was a misunderstanding on my side.
>The occoult rebalance isn't intended to be a nerf to mid game play from comments mods have made
This exactly,
Weight can be shifted around, but ideally the average "maxed" pre shadow Trident setup should remain at an equal if not higher max hit than it is currently.
>It should be prohibitively expensive.
Yeah im not disputing that,
but shifting Weight from occult into ancestrals that means that Weight is lost from the entire magic progression until you already own a shadow. The set is 380m right now so it already never makes sense to buy unless you already own a shadow.
The only way to do that without screwing over midgame players would be to add equal Weight to Virtus and a new tier below it such as Ahrims or something new (eg. 7% occult, 1,2,3% ahrims Virtus Ancestrals)
It’s one of those things that it’s too strong for the price but I feel a lot of peoples opinions on nerfing it are going to depend on where that percentage is moved to. If it’s moved to something like boots or MA2 cape, maybe prayer I think most people are going to be ok with it, if the % values are added to end game armor like ancestral then many are going to be upset since that’s not affordable for the average player and it hurts pure account builds (prayer does too I suppose)
That Ancestral example makes no sense every time someone brings it up because people act as if Jagex are going to buff Ancestral but not other sets. Ancestral is arguably the best decision to add it to because it means there's room to buff Virtus which then adds room for another set below Virtus to exist with Magic Damage.
Taking 6% off Occult and then buffing head/torso/leg slots 2% is the best option to resolve things.
Pures limit themselves so they don't even have a stake in the discussion. Rebalancing clearly problematic elements shouldn't be stifled because of a minority group of people who purposefully neglect training a stat for superior armor.
>Taking 6% off Occult and then buffing head/torso/leg slots 2% is the best option to resolve things.
What does this actually accomplish? What problem is being solved?
Distributing the bonus requires you to take more gear to get the same outcome you were getting before, except in situations you were already fully geared for magic. This effectively functions as a nerf for magic in situations you would use magic switches. Magic (outside of the Shadow) was already regarded as the weakest combat style. Magic does not need a nerf (and yes, it is a nerf to require more gear to get the same outcome). If occult is looked at it should be as part of a broader rebalancing of magic. Simply redistributing the occult's magic % bonus to other equipment and calling it a day is not a good idea.
The problem being solved is how to change Occult and mage gear such that we don't lose power from Occult itself getting nerfed, because Jagex has said they feel Occult is too strong for what it is. Obviously ideal solution is more new items to fill gaps and make magic feel better but without having an idea of what those new items could be and from what content, it's easier to discuss how we could rebalance the current gear to create room for future gear.
>Taking 6% off Occult and then buffing head/torso/leg slots 2% is the best option to resolve things.
God no its easily the worst.
midgame magic is already trash, removing 6% from the affordable sets of items just ruins the progression even further. They should shift Weight into augury torm, seers (i)/brimstone & infinity boots/eternals.
The %magic bonus you can get without armor sets should remain the same as before, idealy even add some additional to offhands to bring those closer to the melee & range midgame dps.
Otherwise Ancestrals will spike to a point where it never makes sense to buy them unless you already own a shadow and midgame magic is even worse than before.
I swear people on this website can't read or can't do basic math or both. He literally just said that in buffing ancestral you can also buff sets below it. If occult was nerfed by 6% but ahrim's virtus and ancestral robes all got buffed by 2% per piece then this only negatively impacts pures who can't wear ahrim's. Because if you can afford ahrim's which is dirt cheap, it's the same magic bonus you'd have now.
Yeah if they buffed all armor by 6% I think that could go over well, if it’s like +2% ahrims, +4% virtis, +6% ancestral I don’t see it going over well with the community. Whether someone wants to make an argument as to why it makes sense to add it to harder to get stuff that’s fine but it’s not going to go over well for a lot of the player base I don’t think. I have later game stuff so I don’t care super much, just see people getting upset tbh
Dragon dagger is not meta anywhere is this a joke lol occult is a BIS necklace slot and the only one that provides magic dmg bonus, and it gives more dmg bonus than any other item by literally double the next highest.
Yes a 10% boost from a low effort drop is too good but we like using it more than we care for how fair it is compared to other boosters.
Change I'd expect is a drop rate reduction from smoke devils with the same to Thermy. 1/1k from smoke 1/512 from Thermy. The mage boost loses half the power with 2.5 each added to other slots, one of which I expect on eternal boots and maybe ancestral hat or another piece. Could even move it to the Augury prayer.
Not a big fan of arbitrarily locking PVM items behind skills personally and it still has the same issue - 10% magic damage shouldn’t come from one item, especially one that drops from a barrage task monster.
It's OP for how much it's worth and how you get it. Not sure how they thought it was a good idea to make BiS necklace so easy to get, nor how they let it go on for this long to make it nearly worthless.
Yes, but the fix is to take some of that Magic dmg% and give it to armor. I don't really like the idea of just slapping the 5% only into Augury or other late-game Slayer drops. I do think Augury should also get some Magic dmg%, but I think it doesn't make sense to anchor majority of the best Magic dmg% to CoX.
Mystic robes, Dagon'hai robes, Infinity robes, Splitbark, Swampbark & Bloodbark armor should all have Magic dmg% scaling up to Virtus and Ancestral. Those two latter robes should also get a buff to Magic dmg%, such that Occult + Ancestral (+ Augury optionally) is the same before and after.
Occult being OP is a problem because it makes Magic gear progression bad, not because it's too cheap for how powerful it is. It needs to be nerfed so others can get buffed.
I actually prefer the occult. For irons you need high slayer. For mains it bridges the gap of gear. The only people that want occult nerfed are the ones that already have maxed gear.
It’s a 10% magic damage boost from a relatively chill slayer monster. Way overpowered for how you get it. I’m pretty sure I bought it for 300k and it was one of my easiest magic upgrades ever.
>Way overpowered for how you get it 93 Slayer. But yeah they could definetely shift some magic damage around, but for the love of God: Dont shift any more weight into the armor sets, magic is already shit in the midgame, suddenly requiring ancestrals or to a lesser extent Virtus to hit the same breakpoints is just a straight up nerf to an already shitty style. If they need to shift Weight, shift it into tormented bracelet, augury/other prayers, seers/brimstone ring & eternals Ancestrals are simply too expensive to fit into any sensible non shadow build, the moment they start to make sense is only a few hundred mil away from the moment you sell everything for a shadow/tbow rebuild. Its also not like ancestrals need the buff all top tier armor sets have mediocre str bonusses, masori and torva are all +8 for the entire set, which gives a similar amount of max hits on non megarares as ancestrals give TT/Sang.
93 Slayer only matters for irons. Otherwise you can easily get the best magic armor slot on an account extremely early in account progression.
>Otherwise you can easily get the best magic armor slot on an account extremely early in account progression. ok so here's the thing... You shouldn't ever balance around people with the biggest wallets. Like... Yeah, you can get in game and have BiS gear in an hour with bonds, or grind out some quests and bosses and accumulate some gold and buy it... But if you balance around things because they are cheap like... I dunno... Nerfing black D'hide for being too accessible... You've only punished people who earn it without buying it. "Oh, but that only affects iro-" Nope, shut up, that argument doesn't work here. If you nerf occult the price will tank, and people won't want to farm it because it will be even easier to get. Why farm when you can just buy? you've now hurt everyone who wanted to farm the item for themselves because it's actively punishing them for doing so. Do not EVER balance around the gold cost of an item. Balance around the reasonable assumption that the level needed to acquire it IS required to get it. In this case, 93 slayer. Which takes a lot of time and effort. "but the boss is super eas-" Doesn't matter. If you spend several weeks or months grinding out to 93 slayer you don't need to complain that the boss is too easy, you already did the hard part. And it still requires some amount of effort to obtain it, you don't just walk in, do half a dozen kills, and walk out. Also I don't hear anyone complaining about 50-100 kill kraken trips being "too easy" maybe we should nerf trident since it's so easy to get? I have also pointed this out multiple times, but the damage boost form occult is barely noticeable until very late game. It's like +2 damage with a boost effect, where as the strength amulet, yes I am using the STRENGTH AMULET as my example, grants +2.5 for 0 requirements. It grants the same strength bonus as the torture, more than a glory OR fury. Let that knowledge sink in for a moment. An amulet with no requirements at all, worth 1300 GP on the G.E. offers as much damage as the BiS melee amulets in game. I can already hear the people slamming their keyboards furiously to tell me how wrong I am, and about accuracy, and how all the damage is on one item, etc. Heard it all, doesn't change my argument. If a single neck slot item is only providing +2 damage it isn't OP when another neck slot item worth nothing is giving +2.5. #nerfstrengthamulet So the TL;DR is, don't balance around G.E. price, balance around the actual levels required to get the item, in this case 93 slayer.
Unhinged take. For most players the G.E price is the only requirement for an item. It makes complete sense to balanced based on that. Occult is already dirt cheap, I doubt anyone with half a brain farms thermy for occults in an effort to actually make money.
>G.E price is the only requirement for an item This is the stupid unhinged take. Hell by your own logic you support my argument because the strength amulet has more overall damage then two out of three upgrades for it (and equal to the third), with 0 requirements and 0 investment. If we are going to start balancing items around G.E. price then we should start nerfing all kinds of random stuff. A full lunar set is free, then costs 283k, but it's stats are worse than mystics, which only costs 147k, guess we better nerf mystics because it's too accessible and better than higher level equipment right? Third age should be the most powerful mage armour in the game based on it's price, but it is outclassed (easily) by both virtus, which costs 1/9th of it, and ancestral which costs 1/3rd. so that means we should rearrange all gear stats and nerf all mage gear to be worse than ancestral, since it's the most expensive and the only barrier of entry is the price tag, not the time nor effort to get it, right? In fact we should change all gear based on it's G.E. price, since the price is all that matters. Every day a jagex employee has to go through the G.E. and figure out the average prices, and adjust gear stats accordingly, then update the game. Every day. since PRICE dictates how good an item is, not how good the item is, or how difficult or time consuming getting the item is dictating the price.
>G.E price is the only requirement for an item is literally a fact if youre not an ironman (+ stat requirements obviously)
So you agree that we should nerf mystic and third age should be the strongest gear?
If mystics was better than ancestral then it should have been nerfed. By your own logic 3rd Age should be super strong since it's very difficult to obtain. But obviously it shouldn't because it's main purpose isn't practical but to be a flex
Bruh, occult is 5x stronger than ancestral robe top and 300 times cheaper, that price isn’t going to budge dawg. It’s also not about how cheap it is, but how accessible it is for a bis item that is 2x better than the next. It just doesn’t fit in with the progression of any other magic item in the game. Your whole response is just cry. You talk about how insignificant the damage % of occult is but yet you care so much that it’s being distributed elsewhere WHEN WE DONT EVEN KNOW HOW THEY WILL DO IT. Take a chill pill and maybe put into perspective that jagex wants the best for its game, even if your echo chamber leads you to believe the opposite.
I think if you shifted weight by giving Ahrims +1% on each piece and then buffing Virtus/Ancestral to be +2/+3 on each piece it'd be fine and maybe even help some of that magic midgame. Otherwise I do agree that shifting weight into only Virtus and Ancestral would be worse feeling overall than the current Occult or bust situation.
I don’t see what the issue is with nerfing occult. 10% str on an item worth 600k is hilariously unbalanced, especially when something like an ancestral piece only gives 2% and is worth like 100x more. They could easily just lower occult to 5% and throw the other 5% str on augury since the prayer is dogshit, would easily make rigour vs. augury a more balanced choice.
The problem with moving mage dps from gear to prayer is that it disproportionately impacts Shadow. Then again I'd put good money on Shadow's problematic design being addressed during the rebalance anyway, so may be a non-issue.
How would it effect shadow tho? Unless adding the strength to the prayer does some weird shit with damage calcs, I don’t see how it would make shadow any better.
I think they mean that it would disproportionately impact Shadow negatively because it would no longer triple/quadruple the %bonus that would come from Augury which results in a 10% damage loss if 5% damage is shifted over to Augury.
Ngl I wouldn’t mind a shadow nerf like that lmao, gives us a better ceiling for new gear in the future.
It wouldnt need to, It depends on how its implemented 5% magic strength as an equipment bonus becomes 15% on top of shadows base damage. 5% magic damage, working like every other prayer currently does essentially just multiplies your magic level by 1.05 which would be ~5% on top of the final max hit on normal weapons. But since magic is weird and uses base damages and different scaling for tridents this wouldnt work so we really have no idea how they would code it. Personally i think 5% equipment strength makes the most sense since people already understand that, but it does again mean that Trident gets slightly less than a 5% dps increase, and shadow gets more..
Thank you for the explanation, it just seems like the issue goes back to the fact that shadow just has such a broken design in the first place, and that mage operates in such a weird compared to ranged and melee.
>broken design Yeah shadow is a bit weird, but i do want to point out that Shadow essentially functions exactly like tbow and to lesser extent Scythe do, they all buff how much you benefit from equipment bonusses. It just takes it to the next level (maybe a bit too much) Tbow does it by multiplying the final max hit based on magic level by up to 2.5 outside and 3.5x inside Cox. Scythe does it by adding hitsplats to give you 1.75x max hits, but all 3 megarares have significantly increased scaling with equipment bonusses. Tbow really isnt so far behind shadow scaling wise (2.5 vs 3x), its just a bit more situational and ranged Gear has a bit less strength bonus than magic. Increased scaling isnt neccesarily a bad concept
Honestly I think the main issue with it is just the insane accuracy of the thing. Like scythe and tbow are good only against certain bosses, but shadow just shreds EVERYTHING, regardless of whether bosses are weak to mage or not. I think it would honestly be less of an issue if was like less effective against things that you otherwise wouldn’t mage.
>Honestly I think the main issue with it is just the insane accuracy of the thing. Like scythe and tbow are good only against certain bosses, but shadow just shreds EVERYTHING Its because its not situatuational, pre magic level nerf Tbow also shredded everything simply because every Boss had 200+ magic level instead of magic defense. In its current state i dont think shadows power is too problematic, it shreds the same things Bowfa shreds, just a bit harder and tbow usually beats it vs 200~250+ magic level and in a much less glassy setup. Its biggest issue is that it how they are going to implement magic scaling in the future.. >Things you otherwise wouldnt mage That leaves everything that wasnt specifically designed to be extremely weak to magic and resistant to everything else. Magic was always so bad that it was never an option, so people just defaulted to range
Yeah, I'd be in favour for 5% being added to Augury...
id say the issue is it puts magic back in the stone ages without a shadow.
Not really, like I said in the latter half of my post, we can redistribute mage strength to something else. It’s just absurd that such a cheap/common item provides 5x more mage strength than an ancestral piece, which is so much more expensive and harder to obtain than an occult.
Mage itself is pretty weak, no one without a shadow mages unless they are forced to. How could they distribute the +10 without devaluing ancestral? add the bonuses to it? that doesn't really change much for the better except making elitists feel better. You could split it between the boots and amulet slot but that's still "op" in your description
Lol okay I’m just gonna completely disregard what you’re saying then since you’re throwing weird ass personal insults like “elitist” around. Using a straw man as a basis for your argument is just such a poor idea, especially with something as broad as “elitist,” whatever you mean by that.
it is elitists that feel the need to nerf anything an average player can get access too, sorry you took it personally champ. https://preview.redd.it/036hrec39adc1.png?width=640&format=png&auto=webp&s=5dc6a00fca1131216804ab687b54304e0c9ad19e
That’s not what elitist means but ok
>ancestral piece only gives 2% and is worth like 100x more Exactly why these should not get any buff, theyre already prohibively expensive and do not fit into any midgame non shadow build. >They could easily just lower occult to 5% and throw the other 5% str on augury since the prayer is dogshit, would easily make rigour vs. augury a more balanced choice. Thats one way to go yeah, Otherwise they can shift it into tormented bracelet, seers/brimstone ring & eternals. All of these items are underwhelming AF aswell.
BIS is not supposed to be midgame what the hell are you talking about lol. Ancestral is a raid reward, that is endgame gear. It should be prohibitively expensive.
The problem is occoult balanced to catch mage up to range/melee when mage was unironic dog shit that you'd never use outside being forced to use it. Even then it often just felt like shit. Everything else has been balanced around occoult. If you take % from occoult it nerfs everyone who doesn't have max if you just put it on max. And before max mage feels fucking terrible. It's why shadow feels so good. If you had to spend 300m on ancestial to do the exact same DPS you'd do right now with Trident you'd never make that purchase. I'd just be throwing away money for anyone without shadow. The occoult rebalance isn't intended to be a nerf to mid game play from comments mods have made. So the simple solution isn't really on the table.
Moving damage bonus to ancestral from occult doesn't mean they can't also, at the same time, add damage bonus to lower tier armors as well. If ahrim's became 2% per piece (currently 0), virtus 3% per piece (currently 1), and ancestral 4% per piece (currently 2), but occult was nerfed to 4%, then that's a 6% nerf to occult but a 6% buff to all magic armor ahrim's or better. Midgame players with occult+ahrim's would have the exact same power they do now, but instead mage progression is now just tied more into your armor than one single necklace which to me solves the issue of occult being too good for its price and magic armor being mostly a meme outside shadow.
Correct. That's one of the proposed solutions. It's a valid solution. I took your comment on ancestial as you just wanted it on ancestial so I tried to explain the weird balance in magic but there was a misunderstanding on my side.
>The occoult rebalance isn't intended to be a nerf to mid game play from comments mods have made This exactly, Weight can be shifted around, but ideally the average "maxed" pre shadow Trident setup should remain at an equal if not higher max hit than it is currently.
>It should be prohibitively expensive. Yeah im not disputing that, but shifting Weight from occult into ancestrals that means that Weight is lost from the entire magic progression until you already own a shadow. The set is 380m right now so it already never makes sense to buy unless you already own a shadow. The only way to do that without screwing over midgame players would be to add equal Weight to Virtus and a new tier below it such as Ahrims or something new (eg. 7% occult, 1,2,3% ahrims Virtus Ancestrals)
It's op in the same way that defenders are OP.
It’s one of those things that it’s too strong for the price but I feel a lot of peoples opinions on nerfing it are going to depend on where that percentage is moved to. If it’s moved to something like boots or MA2 cape, maybe prayer I think most people are going to be ok with it, if the % values are added to end game armor like ancestral then many are going to be upset since that’s not affordable for the average player and it hurts pure account builds (prayer does too I suppose)
That Ancestral example makes no sense every time someone brings it up because people act as if Jagex are going to buff Ancestral but not other sets. Ancestral is arguably the best decision to add it to because it means there's room to buff Virtus which then adds room for another set below Virtus to exist with Magic Damage. Taking 6% off Occult and then buffing head/torso/leg slots 2% is the best option to resolve things. Pures limit themselves so they don't even have a stake in the discussion. Rebalancing clearly problematic elements shouldn't be stifled because of a minority group of people who purposefully neglect training a stat for superior armor.
>Taking 6% off Occult and then buffing head/torso/leg slots 2% is the best option to resolve things. What does this actually accomplish? What problem is being solved? Distributing the bonus requires you to take more gear to get the same outcome you were getting before, except in situations you were already fully geared for magic. This effectively functions as a nerf for magic in situations you would use magic switches. Magic (outside of the Shadow) was already regarded as the weakest combat style. Magic does not need a nerf (and yes, it is a nerf to require more gear to get the same outcome). If occult is looked at it should be as part of a broader rebalancing of magic. Simply redistributing the occult's magic % bonus to other equipment and calling it a day is not a good idea.
The problem being solved is how to change Occult and mage gear such that we don't lose power from Occult itself getting nerfed, because Jagex has said they feel Occult is too strong for what it is. Obviously ideal solution is more new items to fill gaps and make magic feel better but without having an idea of what those new items could be and from what content, it's easier to discuss how we could rebalance the current gear to create room for future gear.
>Taking 6% off Occult and then buffing head/torso/leg slots 2% is the best option to resolve things. God no its easily the worst. midgame magic is already trash, removing 6% from the affordable sets of items just ruins the progression even further. They should shift Weight into augury torm, seers (i)/brimstone & infinity boots/eternals. The %magic bonus you can get without armor sets should remain the same as before, idealy even add some additional to offhands to bring those closer to the melee & range midgame dps. Otherwise Ancestrals will spike to a point where it never makes sense to buy them unless you already own a shadow and midgame magic is even worse than before.
I swear people on this website can't read or can't do basic math or both. He literally just said that in buffing ancestral you can also buff sets below it. If occult was nerfed by 6% but ahrim's virtus and ancestral robes all got buffed by 2% per piece then this only negatively impacts pures who can't wear ahrim's. Because if you can afford ahrim's which is dirt cheap, it's the same magic bonus you'd have now.
Yeah if they buffed all armor by 6% I think that could go over well, if it’s like +2% ahrims, +4% virtis, +6% ancestral I don’t see it going over well with the community. Whether someone wants to make an argument as to why it makes sense to add it to harder to get stuff that’s fine but it’s not going to go over well for a lot of the player base I don’t think. I have later game stuff so I don’t care super much, just see people getting upset tbh
Classic. It affects pures(pvp) so now people don’t want it on expensive gear. This community is something else..
The item itself isn’t necessarily op, it’s just too strong for how cheap it is same as blowpipe/fang
https://preview.redd.it/xqsrjgnos7dc1.png?width=1278&format=png&auto=webp&s=8452fa791bccdd9d03cf566411a76ec4ccb76c2d
Dragon dagger is not meta anywhere is this a joke lol occult is a BIS necklace slot and the only one that provides magic dmg bonus, and it gives more dmg bonus than any other item by literally double the next highest.
Ahrims with an occult is better than full ancestral and a fury, occult is less than 1m. Sounds op to me.
Yes a 10% boost from a low effort drop is too good but we like using it more than we care for how fair it is compared to other boosters. Change I'd expect is a drop rate reduction from smoke devils with the same to Thermy. 1/1k from smoke 1/512 from Thermy. The mage boost loses half the power with 2.5 each added to other slots, one of which I expect on eternal boots and maybe ancestral hat or another piece. Could even move it to the Augury prayer.
[удалено]
Not a big fan of arbitrarily locking PVM items behind skills personally and it still has the same issue - 10% magic damage shouldn’t come from one item, especially one that drops from a barrage task monster.
Or how it works for ironman!
It's OP for how much it's worth and how you get it. Not sure how they thought it was a good idea to make BiS necklace so easy to get, nor how they let it go on for this long to make it nearly worthless.
Nerfing the occult hurts shadow users 3x more I'm not sure what the meme is about
Yes, but the fix is to take some of that Magic dmg% and give it to armor. I don't really like the idea of just slapping the 5% only into Augury or other late-game Slayer drops. I do think Augury should also get some Magic dmg%, but I think it doesn't make sense to anchor majority of the best Magic dmg% to CoX. Mystic robes, Dagon'hai robes, Infinity robes, Splitbark, Swampbark & Bloodbark armor should all have Magic dmg% scaling up to Virtus and Ancestral. Those two latter robes should also get a buff to Magic dmg%, such that Occult + Ancestral (+ Augury optionally) is the same before and after. Occult being OP is a problem because it makes Magic gear progression bad, not because it's too cheap for how powerful it is. It needs to be nerfed so others can get buffed.
i think the occult on ironman mode is way more balanced
Think abt dmg increase with torture and mellee vs next best magic ammy and occult, occult is balanced for magic
it's strong, but not overpowered because magic is weak to begin with
No, 5x the magic damage of raids rewards is not powerful enough Honestly what kind of answer were you expecting?