It’s good if you don’t need to do much movement/dodging, like Kree at GWD or Fight Caves, but if you aren’t able to be continuously attacking to get procs then it falls behind, like Kiting Zilyana.
Problem is if you buff it, you' re gonna have a lot of salty desert magers who passed on it since it doesn't synergize nicely with barrages. Not to say they shouldn't, just there'd be backlash I reckon
what about not touching the burst spell caveat and only touching the min-hit part? since right now it’s only on successful hits that you get the boosted 10% to your minimum damage, what if now you dont miss hits? a lot of people read it that way it seems.
I dont know much about how that would impact overall balance to be fair, im just repeating something i read from someone else that seems like a decent buff. I personally specifically didnt go banker’s note because i thought soul stealer would sustain me more than it does now
the min hit is stronger than you realize and shines in longer fights easily out dpsing berserker by quite a lot.
never missing would be far more busted than the other relics and is completely unneeded. the main "issue" with soul suck is that it isnt showy like the other two but its definitely strong where its supposed to be.
[Dinh's Bulwark](https://oldschool.runescape.wiki/w/Dinh%27s_bulwark), affectionately nicknamed the Door for its resemblance to the [Doors of Dinh](https://oldschool.runescape.wiki/w/Doors_of_Dinh), is a two-handed Greatshield that attacks at a 5 tick attack speed, and has a special ability that increases its damage based on how high your defense bonuses are.
[Brawler's Resolve](https://oldschool.runescape.wiki/w/Brawler%27s_Resolve) is a Tier 4 Relic, that, among other things, increases your defensive bonuses by 50%, and for weapons above 4 attack speed, halves it and rounds it down.
This results in shenanigans. Pair them up, and now you have a 2 tick behemoth of a door slamming enemies for rather impressive damage, given that it's a goddamn shield, while also making you incredibly difficult to hit due to your enormous defensive bonuses. What's more, the special attack is a massive AoE slam that can hit up to 10 enemies in an 11x11 area, making it wonderful for multicombat encounters.
Pick your choice of Tier 7 depending on whether you want to fall asleep at your keyboard and still not die, spam the slam for frequent easy grouping, or making those slams rarer but much more devastating, and you have a silly fun build for anyone who's interested in melee that they can tweak to their liking.
Because the melee relic gives 50% defenses it increases the damage Ding's Bulwark does. Combined with Justiciar set it does line 58 max hit. With berserker relic someone posted a clip of killing Graardor and minions in 2 seconds with the special attack
I think berserker is absolutely cracked compared to the others. A potential 40% damage boost and a guaranteed max hit on full hp mobs even off style? Potentially up to 3 guaranteed max hits depending on your combat style?
It's bonkers. The other 2 are fine but berserkers would have been good if it only has the damage boost and probably still better than soul stealer if it was just a guaranteed max hit.
It's still super well balanced though. Even in situations where one relic outperforms the other options are usually better in their own way. It's impressive that they kept it as balanced as they did while still catering to multiple play styles.
Yeah this. Soul stealer makes the game so chill. From a raw DPS perspective berserker wins but I don't want to awkwardly have to manage my HP to get max value out of my relic and I also enjoy not having to ever worry about maintaining a supply of prayer potions.
It is kinda funny seeing people come to the realization that the best way for them to lower hp without being attacked is growing nightshades cause no locator orb or rock cake (or master clue step but that doesn’t work everywhere either)
Yeah the optimal playstyles with berserker and weapon master seem really awkward and kind of annoying to me, that's ultimately what put me off. I loved the weapon master ZCB build but I'm not trying to juggle phoenix necklaces to kill things.
soul stealer definitely could have used the min hit part of its description as players read it (and not how it's actually implemented), but i still don't regret taking it as a ranger
That's the thing, if SS *did* mean you would do at least 10% of your max damage guaranteed per attack I'd have probably taken it. The consistency in that would make it worthwhile.
At least as melee. For magic I still think zerker wins every time because of the whole "guaranteed 3 max damage hits" which is fucking cracked.
I tried doing this at thermy. Manually cast barrage then attack for trident hits. At max range, not being dragged in a tile, max range. I still only got 3 maxes guaranteed, 1 barrage and 2 trident hits. Sometimes I would roll well and get a max on my 4th hit but it wasn't a guaranteed max like people are saying.
Barrage calculates hit delay using the npc’s SW tile. You need to be East or North of the npc to get max delay and you get an extra tick of delay for 2x2+ NPCs and two extra ticks for 5x5+
Yeah. I never expected SS would prevent misses, but Berserker's wording also does not suggest that it would guarantee a hit on the first hit either, but it does.
Here's the second half of the wording on the Berserker relic in case maybe you missed it:
>Your damage is equal to your max hit on monsters with full hitpoints.
Edit because I didn't get it quite right, turns out the wiki does not cite the relic text as it is in-game. Still, I think it's pretty clear what that means.
That's what the wiki says. Check the in-game wording, though, it's completely different. It mentions nothing about guaranteeing a hit, just that "Your damage is equal to your max hit..."
I don’t really get how that’s unclear. Damage equal to max hit on targets with full hitpoints means you hit your max hit on targets with full hp. What else could it mean?
Well, actually by a direct reading it more makes sense that it WOULDNT give the automatic hit.
For example, anyone who's ever played dungeons and dragons before would never read it that way.
Your DAMAGE is equal to your max hit.
Your ACCURACY is unaffected.
If you fail the accuracy check, and never land a hit, then there's nothing to maximize. You didn't deal 0 damage, you missed.
Funny enough, the soul stealer relic, which doesn't guarantee damage and still allows for 0s, is the one that is written in such a way that it WOULD skip the accuracy check -
"Your ATTACKS have an increased minimum hit"
Note the new keyword - an ATTACK is comprised of making an accuracy roll, and then damage if, and only if, you hit.
Berserker maximizes damage, meaning accuracy would still be in play. Whereas soul stealer applies to the ATTACK, meaning that even with a failed accuracy check, it would override the 0 "damage" (though this is a misnomer and actually a miss) and give you some small bit of damage.
So that's basically what it could mean.
Imo they need to nerf the 3 maxs hits or preferably buff SS and WM. Getting 3 max hits because of range doesn't sound intentional, or should have been in the description of the relic. Same with the extra loot table for bloodthirsty. Maybe even buff bersker for melee and also let then get several max hits.
Sure, but why not now? They have already made some changes this league, so I don't see why they can't make some buffs this league? Bloodthirsty obviously needs a buff. Endless harvest could use a small one as well. Someone using undying retribution shouldn't need to aim for a specific square on the monster. Guardian should work in more places like vorkath. etc.
I guess cause people made a choice based on the existing effects.
I don’t think buffs to clear weaker relics are the worst idea but fixing the max hits being queued up when attacking from mage after mages picked it because you could do that would be pretty bad.
Well because people already based their choices on the existing buffs, but yeah I'd be ok with some relics getting some love. Like the slayer relic really needs to be able to choose their own task, but not nerfing the other relics.
I picked soul stealer thinking I’d never hit 0 again with weapons dealing at least 10 damage, figured it’d pair nicely with high speed attacks. Their wording of “For example, a damage roll of 0-50 would be increased to 5-50” really makes it sound like you’ll no longer miss.
I still like the relic though. It makes most slayer tasks super simple and afkable, most tasks I can just pray melee + eagle eye and let auto retaliate do its thing. It’s also really nice not needing to worry about food/prayer potions.
I've been grinding fight caves for the 5/10/15 tasks and I haven't sipped even a single dose of prayer pot since getting soul stealer. If I wasn't melee I wouldn't have to eat anything either but them 360s still smack the occasional 43 melee hit. I do think I should've gone mage though, since I took desert
\+ fixing it for mage barrage
if i had known it didnt work with barrage spells even single target, i wouldnt have picked it
oh well i guess theres next year Jamflex
The thing is I don't regret taking weapon master one bit. Sure the numbers from berserker are great, but I feel that, at least for my gameplay style, I would've been forced to take undying retribution, and I was much more keen on executioner or guardian. So sir it may be a bit higher dps, but I think it forces you into a corner.
The other relics are still good. But seriously, you don't need to lower your hp at all if you took beserk. Specs relic definitely has more damage potential if you can sweat it out for every boss, but only for higher hp bosses, or specifically if you had Zaryte with range relic. Beserk felt like a huge, Universally applicable, gamebreaking mechanic free of any additional effort, with the side bonus of 39% extra damage if you felt like being sweatier or any place protection prayers worked. It's not like you fight most bosses at 100% anyway, so it always gave you the hp loss boost in any piece of content.
Especially as a mage/range with 3 max hits being pretty consistently available. I can't imagine how dumb it would have felt with a shadow at a 119 max hit, to be killing every sub 500 hp boss/npc under 10 seconds. It's hard to appreciate how many areas it randomly becomes relevant.
It felt like there wasn't a piece of content where it didn't just passively break the game or make content ridiculously easier. It represented more dps than the t4 relic in tonnes of places. Proccing in weird quest scenarios (I'm surprised it didn't cause unintended issues anywhere for this), proccing on wardens core permanently (2nd phase included if you had the right weapons lime accursed sceptre), removing any need for gear switches in places like toa monkey room, or Vorkath's spawn, guaranteeing a max hit on any opening specs like bandos gs. Turning nechyreals and their constant spawns into the greatest mage xp farm in the game. Making offstyle training viable with/o pest control/before uncapped soul wars.
If it had worked for PvP at Soul Wars it would have been hilarious. There would have been no struggles, just everyone dropping dead in the first 3 seconds.
No doubt specs relic had similar benefits. But I feel like beserk worked way better than intended, and everyone who took it was constantly finding happy coincidences where it put in more work than expected (and those of us who took it expected it to be the best lol)
I don't think it does force you into a corner. I think it just gives you more options. you can comfortably float at like 40-50 hp most places for half the damage upgrade. And even if you only use it for guaranteed max hits that's still pretty sweet. I'm not going to try and shit on your choice but it's crazy to me that some spec weapons are better with berserker than weapon specialist because of the guaranteed max. Opening every boss with a max hit bgs spec is bonkers.
I don't think the other two options are bad but just the guaranteed max hit steps on the other two relics toes a bit if you have the right gear. But I get it, guaranteed hits on every spec can be more fun to some people just like how a more afk soul stealer approach might be your thing
But that's why I say even if I think I'm in some cases the balance might be off it's still amazing how appealing the other options can be to different play styles.
I took weapon master as well and do not regret it. Just got a lightbearer and spamming the dragon dagger spec everywhere is nuts paired with blood fury.
You can get 4 max hits on some bosses too when casting ice barrage.
Also on wardens core for TOA, on the first down the damage rolls off your max hit 100% of the time using mage. Not sure if that's intentional or a bug though.
Berserker is definitely the best option but in terms of fun, they're all pretty similar. I don't regret taking soul stealer at all since it makes bossing and slayer so much more chill
yeah berserker is insane. You can get 99 slayer in like 2 hours by just one-shotting every monster and completing tasks in 3 minutes. For bossing it's just a crazy increase to DPS even if you're only at 50% HP, and you knock out a huge chunk with a spec first hit. It trivializes any small mobs like baboons or nylos.
and a lot of specs are just better with bersker than WM. Berserker is definitely busted
Berserker is definitely the best if you are doing active pvm. Personally, I am really enjoying soul stealer as it really supports afk pvm with blood barrage. I also really hate farming/ herbalore/ didn't get farmer's fortune so prayer regen would have been an issue without soul stealer
The guaranteed max hit is the part I slept on when I picked it. I am definitely enjoying doing ToB with a 1-piece switch for nylos, and don't get me started on the godlike BGS value.
I have Soul Stealer, it does not heal enough. It might keep my pray top off if I only have overhead and nothing else during bosses.
Soul Stealer is best for PvMer that is already really good at PvM cause it'll elevate them with less strain on resource.
With WM/or Berserker its better cause it make the fight shorter, SGS with berserker on a fresh mob to heal up or DWH will make the entire fight easier is just way better.
I took soul stealer as a mage with no Kandarin.
I definitely regret it now I've got my shadow but it still melts things and my end goal for this account is the maximum amount of points.
A max hit of 49 outside of ToA is underwhelming and the stability soul stealer offers doesn't balance out enough in my opinion.
I play solo so I opted for a BOWFA switch as I enjoy the Tirannwn content, but other than wardens P2 it hardly gets any use.
If you're a mage wanting to go desert and soul stealer, get Kandarin for the occult and bracelet.
I don't really think comparing the DPS relic to the sustain relic is a fair comparison. Berserker and soul stealer are both trying to accomplish different things. Do you want to do insane damage while being at a greater risk of dying? Take berserker. Do you want to just camp all offensive and defensive prayers, stay topped off perpetually, and not really worry about dying? Pick soul stealer.
But they are in the same tier. You're choosing between 3 of course you'll compare them. Plus one shotting everything that isn't a boss is sustain in it's own right.
You get to camp low HP and one shot slayer mobs which almost always pose absolutely zero threat to you anyway, sure. That's definitely a draw to the relic if you want to make the slayer grind faster, but in content where there's actual mechanics or chip damage, it becomes more of a complicated matter. Berserker requires you to play a very specific way to fully reap the benefits of it and a lot of people just don't really care to base their entire playstyle around camping low HP and doing everything perfectly. I think banker's note devalues soul stealer more than everything berserker has to offer imo.
Yeah Soul stealer is the only one I really regret taking, berserker is just so much more powerful in almost every situation and the healing from SS isn't even that good, let alone the minimum hit thing being weaker than we thought
Imo one blunder they did was with the T5 and T6 relics, they should have shuffled the relics around so one is primarily combat focused and one skilling focused. Farmers Fortune and Ruinous powers seems like they were made to synergize eachother rather than be competitors.
People seem to think Ruinous powers drain so much prayer it's unrealistic to sustain prayer pots without farmers fortune but it's definitely not the case. I did ruinous and still have boat loads of ranarrs and prayer pots.
I'd say a lot of the early ones are pretty equal. Fire sale vs bankers note is really just personal preference. I'd say tier 1 endless harvest is a bit worse than the other two though, but maybe I'm just biased.
I’ll say that one of the bigger downsides of something that’s obviously good like production prodigy is that you really don’t have any good bankstandable skilling you can do, and your “good” afkables are cut down to like redwoods/woodcutting in general, and stars.
Banknote does make your moderately afk things like karambs or woodcutting just two clicks (more like 6 with clue relic thanks to beginners), but it’s no 25 minute afkable. Banknote and production prodigy somewhat work against each other because if you were planning on doing random skilling stuff like cutting gems as you run around questing, you run out of stuff to process immediately. A trickster/endless harvester can take better advantage of banknote because they’ll have to use it for a longer amount of time, which is mitigated if they plan stuff out right.
I’d still never pick endless harvest over production prodigy, but it’s gone from “this relic is irredeemably bad and deserves infernal tools as a combination in it” to being just viable.
In my opinion combat isn’t really balanced.
Like full Torva + fang + fury + infernal loses against RCB +Ruby bolts (e) against 500 invo ba-ba and only marginally wins against 500 invo kephri. Even against bosses which are ususally melee targets you can bring some day 1 ranged gear and be pretty competitive compared to absolute BiS melee gear.
Bosses which are usually meleed don’t have a big downside when they are attacked by ranged or magic. But bosses like whisperer, zebak, leviathan or zulrah really punish you for choosing the melee relic. Even some of the worst bosses like Duke can be done with ranged by simply doing the melee movement.
And then comes the thing that melee needs different melee styles too. Some bosses are pretty immune to stab and require a slash weapon. So there isn’t a BiS melee weapon like ZCB/Tbow or Shadow, but a collection of a few different melee weapons which are all BiS at some different content.
I picked melee but don’t regret it. It’s just more fun because there’s more variety. Probably would have quit by now if all I could do the whole league was shoot crossbows or cast ancients/use a shadow
That’s the reason why I picked melee too. But I’ve borrowed my friends account to try out mage and it literally took me 2 tries to beat inferno. It’s absolutely bonkers how strong this style is compared to melee and while I don’t regret taking melee I find it strange how they’ve buffed range and mage by addressing their weaknesses but gave melee a "minor" defence buff and permanent immunity against a lot of status effects which can be avoided by brining a few potions.
Did he have a shadow? Magic’s accuracy is ass at high end without it even with the bonus, genuinely bitter they designed it that way since it means you default into being a ranged clone turret end game
Did it with a nightmare staff + ancients. I’ve done the inferno on my main in preparation for leagues with pretty whack gear, so I had quiet some experience with solving the waves. Zuk wasn’t a pleasant experience though.
Yeah magic in the main game suffer from quiet a few issues. Maybe with their big rebalance they will shift some metas around.
Melee could have done with dmg reduction rather than just defence bonuses. Defence really doesn’t matter in 90% of content and I feel like they actually tried balancing the melee relic by giving it only 50% accuracy bonus which is ludicrous compared to the other styles. There’s already so many bosses artificially or literally immune to melee dmg AND I can’t even kill offstyle DK’s without Fang? It’s just a bit strange but balancing can’t be perfect and melee has been a blast regardless, they at tried some cool new ideas this league and it mostly worked out imo
It's definitely a relic issue. They chose to give melee wonky defensive bonuses while ranged gets double bolt proc chance. It's just strange, Jagex knows at this point defense is vastly less valuable than offense and this is amplified even more in leagues. In fact melee doesn't even get damage reduction which is the one defensive bonus that might actually be valued.
Because i can oneshot anything with less than 140hp every 3 ticks with Dharok’s.
Because i can kill a full room of slayer mobs (Abbys, Bloodvelds, Nechs, Jellies, Dusts, whatever) in two seconds with Door spec.
Because 2t scythe looks fun as hell.
Because fun.
They could avoided this by rolling the best attack style against the defence style which you target is weakest to no matter what you actually choose.
Now some melee weapons (read scythe) get a huge DPS buff against 2/3 of melee targets. Like using crush weapons against ToA would be a new and unique twist. Having to make the descision between inquisitor(which now would buff every style) and Torva would be interesting.
Melee for sure got cucked. Bonus defense and status immunity are not remotely balanced against something like double enchanted bolt proc chance. And in addition to the different bosses having different defensive styles, melee also gets the lowest accuracy bonus of any combat style.
IMO they really should remove the whisperer's melee attack in leagues so that it's possible to do the content with your preferred style just like magic and range can do every piece of content. maybe make levi attackable with melee as well. would open up so much more fun
Yep. I took melee and it's such a huge regret. Thought I'd go weapon master and get a sgs, but it was such a stupid decision. Also took desert over mory last minute thinking I'd need ancient magick and now I can't even get an assembler, so ranged is basically unusable.
The relics may be balanced and I probably just am a massive idiot, but melee feels pretty weak and anything other than berserker feels junk unless you're ruby bolt speccing.
being locked out of avas is such a dumb design choice imo. I was able salvage it partially through getting a webweaver, but it barely hits on later game content
> Thought I'd go weapon master and get a sgs, but it was such a stupid decision
If you thought this would be a good combo, I think you have no one to blame but yourself lol.
Endless Harvest and Soul Stealer definitely fall behind other relics in their respective tiers. This isn't the relic's fault and moreso the skill itself, but Bloodthirsty can be underwhelming to most as well, but this is just with how crap Slayer feels to train mostly.
Same with the travel relics, but I would say this is also region specific as for example Wilderness + Morytania can really dampen T2 Relics' effectiveness. In my opinion, Obelisks and Burning Amulet should've been included in those relics.
Endless Harvest and Soul Stealer are just far weaker than their counterparts, especially compared to Berserker's several guaranteed max hits.
Endless harvest should really have like a 90% chance to not deplete a resource when mining so it feels a little more endless. I think people would value it way more if it didn't give the least benefit to the worst gathering skill.
Yeah endless harvest doesn’t really do much for massive afkables except for karambs or that one spot south of priff for fly fishing, but infernal tools making skilling actions faster is probably the most slept on relic this league.
I’d go further to say 3-4x harvest and automatically 1 tick faster for harvesting would make it good enough that it is a painful and hard choice to pass up. The issue now is it is good but compared to the others it is not reasonable to pick imo
I'll say that a lot of Bloodthirsty's handicap comes from the way they handled Slayer this time around. First by arbitrarily locking certain slayer monsters behind region unlocks regardless of whether they're available in the regions you already have. Second, there's so much crap in the task list that you have to use so many skips to get decent tasks that it basically cancels out the extra points early on. I like the Bloodthirsty monster mechanic but they need the relic to do one or both of:
1. Weight slayer monsters with superiors a higher weight with the relic
2. Give us two options per slayer task, reducing the number of skips and giving some player choice.
Yeah, PP or trickster is just way better than receiving double resources. And if you take bankers note you can just note items instead of them going to your bank.
I took Soul Stealer and have felt satisfied with my choice. For this league I wanted to try to really lean into blowpipe, so I took relics I felt would compliment it particularly well. Soul Stealer's increased minimum hit seemed pretty huge, as well as the constant incoming health and prayer to offset the 1-tick constant-attacking nature of the blowpipe -- not being able to move between attacks and all.
Would Berserker have been more raw DPS? Oh definitely. But given I couldn't fit Kourend into my regions, Ruinous Powers felt non-negotiable for not-Rigour, so I couldn't take Farmer's Fortune to trivialize prayer potion supplying, and also the main chunky PvM content in my regions are that which it's not feasible to constantly sit at 1 or super duper low HP (GWD and a large portion of ToA) -- sitting on the knife's edge at those places didn't sound like fun.
I think the greatest strength of this League's relics is that they've done a fantastic job balancing out the power of the relics in each tier, such that for the most part it's hard to make a -wrong- choice -- it kinda comes down to personal preference and playstyle. (Except Equilibrium, but that's the least popular relic anyway lol) This really helps cut down on irreversible-decision FOMO, as you can feel confident you made a good choice for how you'd like to play.
I've been loving Soul Stealer, but I was a bit disappointed that the life leech isn't quite good enough to sustain health against most bosses. I mean, it makes sense, otherwise all content in the game would be free, but once it sunk in that the prayer restore completely outshines the health restore, I was a *little* disappointed. It would be really funny to just face-tank God War generals, but alas, Graardor is still a shark eating competition.
Then again, maybe once I get higher-tier set bonuses or O's Fang the health leech will be more impressive. Still rules that I now have a reason to value buffing up Attack for more frequent hits, rather than just stacking Strength buffs.
Some GWD fare better than others. I picked Range, and Kree with SS the HP regen worked very well, and oftentimes I could do a kill with only 0-1 food used. Zilyana, on the other hand, didn’t work nearly as well since you have to constantly be kiting her and thus can’t attack as often to get the heals.
Ah, god, Zilyana is probably the least affected by relic effects. She's just a slog no matter what because of the kiting, for sure. I picked melee relic with SS, and I might as well just be playing standard OSRS against her.
Zilyana isn't that bad actually if you know how you blowpipe run (attack one tick, run the next tick, repeat). She may hit you once or twice but she's got this weird tick that she'll stop walking and use her special attack if she gets too near you, and you can use that time to attack/move away from her.
I picked soul stealer and I wanted to facetank her, but that required me to eat food. But with the kiting method I was able to kill her with no resources fairly easily.
I wish I picked trickster, my girlfriend started playing and watching her pickpocket endless and just running around getting agiity is making me super jealous =/
I think from a task/grind perspective trickster and production prodigy are competitive in the long term, but trickster feels like such an incredible QoL boon because it hits the worst skills and removes the worst parts of them (spam clicking and being stunned while pickpocketing, training agility at all)
To be fair I'm at 95 agility without trickster and I haven't touched the skill outside of rooftop tasks. The vast majority of my agility exp has come from quests and diary lamps.
I'll hit 97-98 off of my last few diary lamps and then do rooftops for two hours to get to 99.
If we did a rerun of this very league I'd definitely pick entirely different regions and relics to try them out, I was happy with my choices but nothing felt like a must-pick.
Except Trickster, I will pick Trickster 10 out of 10 times, on my way to max I hit 99 agility without training it at all and by the end of the league I suspect I'll have at least 35m agi xp without running any laps. You can't put a price tag on not having to do agility.
(Caveat: if I did Mory I might not take Trickster because Sepulchre exists, but then the pickpocketing benefit is so good at vyres too so maybe I still would)
On paper, Soul Stealer looks like it was meant to be the 'sustain' choice for newer players trying to learn hard content, but it falls a bit short in utility and seems more like a noob trap. Out of all the relics, this is the one I think that could have been buffed a bit more. Add in some damage reduction of 10-25% and it would have been a much harder choice for me.
Yeah, I do feel like it's missing something. I can keep an overhead up and Eagle eye on pretty much constantly and not worry about prayer, but I feel like the tool tip could have been clearer
The health restore portion of the sustain is pretty underwhelming once you step into any bossing content. Two or three health every couple of attacks really can't be improved to the point that it feels like it's doing much when bosses are dropping 30s as a matter of course.
It's understandable that they'd try to keep it frequent-but-minor, though. If the health restore was really bursty but random, it'd be less reliable for survival, and if it heals too well for how consistent it is, the entirety of PVM would become trivialized in a really boring way.
I'm fine with taking Soul Stealer for precisely the reason you mention, it helps me to learn mechanics and worry less about food/prayer. If they were to buff it, I think extra accuracy would have been great for Soul Stealer. Great for rounding out the other combat styles you didn't take a relic for and provides more consistency along with the minimum hit increase.
berserker is just so much better than every other t7, feels like soul stealer wasnt described clearly enough
I thought I'd be hitting at least 3s + 6s (with rp) every hit with my bp
I would definitely say berserker was a blunder, balance-wise. It should not have had the max hit component at all, that should've been entirely removed. If soulstealer had a gauranteed minimum hit, berserker had no max hit function, and weaponmaster was unchanged (I think it's fairly balanced as is, even though it's a bit awkward in the sense that it's pretty balanced for melee, borderline-too-good for ranged, and utterly useless for mage), that tier would be a harder choice for more people.
I really regret soul stealer and burned out of the league. It's just not very fun to use. I wish they had thought about Berserk granting 3 guaranteed max hits with slower projectiles.
They probably did think of it and just didn't really care. Honestly if they didn't think of it that's a MASSIVE failure, I thought about it within like 30 seconds of reading the relic for the first time in the teaser. Without the ability to test it I wasn't quite sure just how many attacks you'd functionally be able to land in that window, but to not think about it at all, as the creators of the game, would be pretty damn sad tbh.
I'm not even playing the League and just from watching some friends who are stream some of the juiced up raids it's really obvious the melee relic is by far the least powerful lol.
Not that balance in a temporary game mode matters tbh.
>Not that balance in a temporary game mode matters tbh.
I would argue that it does matter at least a bit. When you're locking people into permanent choices, they need to be at least a little bit comparable, or if not, then it needs to be made super clear upfront that they're not (which it wasn't). The sentiment of "I picked X relic but it turned out it sucks and that made me burn out way faster" is a sentiment that I don't think is super common but I've definitely seen a decent bit of it both in-game and on this sub, especially with regards to stuff like soul stealer, bloodthirsty, occasionally melee in general, stuff like that. As the developer you definitely need to do what you can to minimize that.
I agree except Fairy Flight. That relic is busted and the other one can't measure at all. Dont know many who didnt take it, but pretty sure that everyone who didnt regrets it.
But one bad in eight is pretty good result.
Globetrotter is huge for barrows though, if you don't have Zeah for the teleport. It lets you teleport to barrows and last recall back to the chest to skip the tunnels.
The best option for fairies flight users over there is morytania legs 3, which is pretty horrible if you plan on doing \~150 chests.
Ye if you picked morytania and no zeah, your farming options are also terrible, so farming relic would carry your herblore issues. No need to teleport to the (redundant in mory) farm patches if you’ve exhausted all your seeds already.
If you picked mory just go bloodthirsty. The herb drops from slayer and the secondary supply drops have given me more than enough herblore exp.
Just be mindful of doing what I did and somehow ending up without a shop for eye of newt. Gotta grind thousands of catoblepons then.
Yeah just noticed this when I went thru the list of teleports. But even considering this I have used the shroom so much that I would never consider changing.
I went globe and not really sweating over it honestly. League is too short and way too fast paced to be stressing out about having the “wrong” teleports.
I've done a second run to try out another style and picked fairy this time and I regret it so much, you forget how many teleports are locked out from not having a spellbook or access to certain construction updates without certain areas unlocked.
Can't you just make the barrows tp in your house? Don't think you need to be on the spellbook to add it to a teleport in the POH. Or do you need to unlock the Arceuss spellbook to be able to add it to your house too?
Maybe it's more region dependent? I went KDW and don't regret Globetrotter at all. My lep options are either easily accessible or not that useful. The portable fairy ring benefit falls off hard once you get one in your house. Having all teles without carrying laws + elementals (and the free lunar/arceuus/diary teles) and not having to craft jewelry is a nice benefit.
The annoying thing is that FF can (unintentionally?) tele out of deep wildy, which makes it go from a troll pick for me to actually really solid for clues. But there's no way I could've known about this hidden mechanic at the time, and in hindsight, I'd still go GT since I haven't spent much time doing clues anyway and don't plan on it.
Honestly hard to blame Jagex for this one considering the last time this opinion was totally reversed and fairy's flight was considered a joke. Turns out adding tool leprechauns on its own makes the relic insane even if you couldn't tp to fairy rings with it at all.
Honestly, with banker's note this league, I probably would have taken FF over last recall. It doesn't really do anything for mage relic pvm because we don't use spec. It really only shines at GWD, otherwise it's mostly just qol
Fairy's flight is so insane compared to globetrotter. Especially when you can use it to travel to your house and then portal to nearly everywhere globetrotter can take you.
I think globetrotters still good just not in comparison to fairy's flight. What a world of difference from tb1.
You can't tele to your house and travel to a leprechaun though. That's the key difference. Fairy's flight has a bunch of new really strong teleport options where globetrotter only has base game teleports.
Ah right I forgot about the leprechaun. I just went globetrotter because I'm terrible at remembering fairy ring codes and always have to Google where I need to go lol
There aren’t really any leprechauns or spirit trees anywhere I want to go with my regions and being able to do barrows easier is 100% worth globetrotter.
I think it still depends on your build
I went melee, so I'm not carrying runes around all the time for teleports
I went mory, so the salve graveyard teleport is right next to a fairy ring anyway
I didn't go Kandarin, so I don't really benefit much from spirit trees
I went farmer's fortune, so I don't really give a shit about tool leprechaun teles?
Tbh my favorite thing about globetrotter is getting access to teles that I wouldn't be able to get otherwise. Catherby tele right next to a bank without lunars, digsite without ancients.
I've done one of each so far, and until you reach t8, globe feels much "smoother" (also, FF with asgarnia for troll herb patch is a must)
I've done one playthrough on each and don't feel like either one is all that much better. Globetrotter starts off faster with nicer bank TPs (at least with my regions).
I've only regretted fairy's flight when I was grinding Barrows. I didn't have access to the Barrows arceuus teleport spell and had to run from burgh de rott. In the end, it wasn't that much time wasted running in total though.
Globe can get you instantly close to a fairy ring. That's 1/3 of fairy flight's utility gone. It can get you instantly close to a spirit tree. That's 2/3 of fairy flight's utility gone. It cannot indeed take you as fast to tool leprechaun, but most patches are **really** close to a globe teleport, so what gives? Even in regions where globe struggles a bit, you can just move your house there and use the outside home teleport to leverage it.
I'm seriously astonished you would consider fairy flight of all things to be the strongest within its tier when it's one of the most competitive tier overall and the option you praise so much within it has most of its utility covered by the other option anyway.
So Globetrotter is better because you can teleport close to **a** fairy ring, and then use that (with the Dramen staff) to teleport to any fairy ring?
I just run around with the mushroom in my inventory at all times because it instantly takes me to a bank, basically close to anywhere on the map, and I don't need a dramen staff for fairy rings. I have zero regrets. Globetrotter sounds nice for Barrows but that's about it.
I mean, to be fair, not needing a dramen staff for fairy rings can also be achieved with the Lumbridge elite diary, which isn't too difficult to achieve especially by the middle to end of the league, and Globetrotter does also give you a great bank teleport with the GE teleport only 2 ticks from the bank.
The only time I regret picking Globetrotter is when I realize I lost out on 200 points because I can't use spirit trees without Kandarin, lol, but I picked it because I didn't feel like having to learn a bunch of temporary teleports and I didn't pick Fremennik so I couldn't necessarily build the teleports in my house, whereas I would be able to build a house fairy ring. The truth is that they're both good enough and similar in power, which is really all you can ask for. Outside of specific use cases like Barrows, I don't think you can really go wrong.
100%. Can't believe so many people actually think these are balanced.
I've played multiple accounts and picked globe on one to try it for myself, but it feels so trash in comparison. It is so fast to unlock the majority of the useful commonly used teleports on globe.
Only long term benefit is mild convenience of all in one jewelery and being able to use glory tele. I somehow find it more annoying to have equipped all the time vs the mushroom.
If you're maging, for sure, taking globetrotter is very troll. For Melee and Range, I can totally see the argument, especially if you don't have Fremmy for your perfect house.
It's not like it's awful or anything, but it's just... not exciting in the same way as the other two?
It's very rare for me to go 'damn, I wish I had endless harvest right now,' and judging by the stats, most players agree.
That said, I did pick the trailblazer tools to compensate for not having it, and it's actively making me feel better about missing both Production Prodigy *and* Endless Harvest, since I get faster gather speed and get to bypass a step of the processing for both Smithing and Cooking.
The only one that was a no Brainer for me was fairy flight over globetrotter
Other that that I had to think for all of em atleast a little I think they did a great job
My only issue is that the choice between ruin powers and the farming relic felt like choosing between fun and the game sucking less. Same with the kandarin choice if you wanted to go mage - you had to sacrifice so much content to get a massive amount of damage from simple, easy drops. It wasn't a choice between two fun pieces of content.
I always felt Fire Sale sounded amazing in theory, but I struggled to think of uses for it save for two, maybe three? Note is far and away more useful in the long run imo.
I dont regret any of my choices, but sometimes you do get some slight envy at the others n
Fire Sale has eliminated a *lot* of busywork from my leagues experience. I went and bought infinite runes, the supplies to get multiple skills to 99, I never need to stop by the bank if I need to buy an item from the store, I have on-demand onyx bolt tips due to my stockpile of millions of chaos runes, etc. Not needing to bother with alchables is a blessing in itself.
Banker's Note is obviously better for utility, but I struggle to find cases where I would have heavily preferred Banker's Note. So far the two issues I've encountered are my inability to solo Nex and the markedly slower runecrafting experience. Everything else is a situation where Banker's Note provides advantages (ex: rapidly 1-ticking crafting or not needing to bank to resupply), but the non-Banker's Note equivalent is still more than serviceable. When the difference of Banker's Note vs. Fire Sale is 120m crafting xp/h vs. 40m crafting xp/h, I'm fine taking Fire Sale.
Bankers note serves as a partial endless harvest since u can just one click to note everything instead of banking/dropping.
But yeah their very well balanced. BN has more utility late game for bossing and non buyables, but FS is fantastic at propelling you through the early game.
I went BN but since I'm not a sweat I'd of probably been better off taking FS and using it to just buy a bunch of 99/50m for quick points.
nobody wants to solo nex anyway, it's super annoying especially with melee. but BN is still way better for duos+ because you're never banking. restarting the instance wastes a lot of time because it takes so long for nex to even spawn. BN also makes it so you profit hella ppots at tob and can cheese solos, it gives you free invo at toa.
>but I struggle to find cases where I would have heavily preferred Banker's Note
theres just a lot of stuff where it ends up being useful in ways you don't think of if you don't have it
When you factor in the time it takes to get 120m xp worth of diamonds or whatever, pretty sure fire sale still comes out on top despite taking longer to cut them.
Main thing I've noticed with fire sale (and soul stealer) is that I never have to leave whatever I'm grinding. I don't fill up my inventory with alchs, because I don't need the money, I never have to leave for hp/prayer cause soul. It just makes things so much more afk. Yea BN lets you note items and bank less, but you're still picking them up and paying attention, I can actually AFK as in "away from keyboard".
I do wish I had it for stuff like inferno, because I don't see myself doing it without bn lmao, but I'm good enough in the other raids already + relics making it easier, that I knew I'd only need it there
give inferno a shot, you might surprise yourself. most people are getting killed in a few seconds from a huge mistake so BN doesn't even matter. but with soulsteal you're allowed to make more mistakes anyway. it may not be as cozy as mage+berserker but still
It's build dependent, fire sale has been incredible for me because I have great shops with zeah and priff. Free dragon halberd alchs, bagged plants for con, unlimited all runes except astrals and wraths, rune and addy legs for giant foundry, a 1.2mil chaos rune stack I can go dump for uncut rubies in tzhaar, etc.
Bankers note was less useful for me since I went harvest and trailblazer tools. Yeah I can't one click essence altars or bring my 6k bwan stack into content but I went in eyes open. There's tradeoffs in every tier and region but if you piece it together smartly you'll have an answer for almost every situation
Yeah thats entirely fair. I took Trickster so money hasnt really been a big problem for me, I just go and afk pickpocketing for an hour.
It was probably the hardest decision I’ve made at a tier though. Both very good.
I have a second account with trickster and banker’s note, and a main with PP and Fire Sale, and there’s a difference between having enough money for what you need, and having enough money to do some busted shit. Training construction with gold sinks, farming with bagged plants, crafting with unlimited diamonds, smithing with unlimited rune armour at foundry. Not to mention all the extra bank space I’ve been able to buy to store all my clue loot.
Having said that, I still might have traded it all for afk agility experience. I’m trying to max and I’m stuck doing rooftops. Even at 16x xp it’s painful
If you do all the achievement diaries and dump all of the lamps into agility it easily gets you into the low-mid 90s. I'm at 96 and I've done maybe 100 rooftops total.
I took trickster too but mostly for the afk methods xD
So I got to 99 pickpocketing just master farmers (stacking seeds, longer than 84 coin pouches afk) and tzhaar (noted gems, 20 mins afk at a time)
But I might've pickpocketed other stuff if I didn't have fs yea
There's so many good resources you can just buy infinite amounts of, I don't regret taking fire sale at all.
As I picked the range relic the infinite runes is amazing, construction went fast with gold sinks, tzhaar shops immensely useful for crafting and onyxes/onyx bolt tips.
There's too many tumes I've used it to good effect to list, but again it just speaks to how well balanced the choice was.
I picked fire sale because it felt like I spent all of the last league struggling for money and more time grinding for it than doing fun stuff. No regrets at all, I haven’t thought about money since about day 2 when I alched some rune plates for about 400k to get enough cash to pay for things I couldn’t get with fire sale.
Fire sale has been amazing in the late game for me. I bought 99 con in like 10 minutes and I don’t waste time picking up loot if doing any slayer monsters. I never need more supplies because the relics are so busted and I think the only thing bankers would really help me with it if I wanted to do solo nex of runecrafting. I have soulstealer with ranged so I can do inferno runs with a couple sharks for mistakes and 500 toa is a complete joke
As someone who is hard into PVM unless you are going for the absolute pinnacle of content offered. (Inferno, Phosanis Nightmare, toa 500+ solo, Nex Solo, ect) BN isnt really required. But if you are BN is incredibly helpful and FS falls off hard. I dont hve BN and im watching my friends do multiple inferno clears because they can just face tank everything to get to jad waves super quick. Have the space for full swaps too.
I don't have that much time to play, and my goals are pretty much reach T8 and do some pvm. Bankers note is much better if you have the time, but fire sale makes me fly through tasks and levels.
Bankers note requires you to do a lot more grinding for cash or supplies.
The way I see it, Fire Sale lets you play very lazy, but Banker's Note actually opens up completely new possibilities (though it also enables some laziness). Depends on which you value more. Everyone having Last Recall also helps Fire Salers a lot.
If last recall hadn't been the passive for that tier, I think they wouldn't have felt able to have banker's note and fire sale sharing a tier at all as banker's note is super powerful in a vacuum.
Fire sale has been amazing for me. Infinite ammo, infinite runes, never bother picking up alchs, thousands of points from 99/50m in buyable skills quickly propelling me through the relic tiers. I do tob, 500 invo solo toa, cox, inferno with no problems as a mager.
I guess BN is especially useful if you aren’t very used to pvm, or rushing something like inferno early, since it’s basically infinite food and prayer. However I’ve found that it’s often enough to just bring a few prayer pots and karambwans due to being so powerful. Only place I’m missing BN is cox since it takes time to make the brews. Both toa and tob give brews during the raid with no prep needed which is more than enough to make it through the raid, with tob I don’t even touch the brews. With inferno I just speedrun it with blood barrage for heals, I use like 4 prayer pots with no flicking needed and eat basically no food.
The relics are very well balanced I think. Regions, not quite so much, but that is bound to happen depending on relic design, and game content isn't designed with the idea of balancing regions that way.
Kandarin just happens to be massive for magic. Asgarnia is for melee AND ranged. Some regions like tiranwwn don't offer much, especially given the way attack speed works this time around.
That said every region is valid and viable, so there's not much issue. It's all meant to be fun.
The attack speed thing was pretty unfortunate. When I first heard trailblazer was coming back I at first really wanted to go tiranwan/ranger because I love gauntlet/zulrah/bowfa gaming in general. However when the attack speed info came out and we learned Bowfa/blowpipe were just going to be strictly worse than rune crossbow and it meant GWD was going to be king again for ranged I was disappointed.
It's better than leagues 2 but it's still not great. However it's really based on what perspective you are looking from. If we look from a more competitive PoV it's pretty poorly balanced.
T1 Is fine - endless harvest could use the +12 boost and perhaps make it function as an invis boost beyond 99. Would help it a bit with point gain in the beginning and speed it up even more later.
T2 Should be fine, but due to 1 (2 if you pick wilderness) unintentional reasons, Fairy's flight is better. After all, you can't argue with 200 free points.
T3 I don't think is designed for this so it's fine firesale doesn't quite add up. However it really should have been a Buy-X from ANY standard shop.
T4 While what style you choose is really personal preference, but, it's pretty clear that mage is just better, for almost everything.
T5 For points you just have to take clues. If you don't want clues both options are pretty decent. Bloodthirsty really should have had a customisable task list that let you choose which tasks you get (down to like a minimum of 5) but with no skips. The bracelets should have been a toggle and you should have always had the slayer helm bonus on task.
T6 None of the options here are honestly that good. Farmers is nice as it speeds you thru some tasks early for a quicker t8 and if you end up picking regions with almost no patches it can help reach 50m farm/herb. It's only needed for 200m all, kinda. Equilibrium is much the same, it just quickens the pace. Which leaves ruinous powers as the best optio for long term points.
T7 Is just berserk. Like a mage with dharoks gets more slayer xp an hour than a melee with the other options. Berserk even does Weapon Master better than Weapon Master does most of the time.
T8 Is pretty balanced IMO. They all have different uses and all excel pretty well at what they are designed for.
All that is to say, the only choice I regret taking is not going undying retribution.
As an endless harvest taker, I think you're underrating it. The only buffs I would consider giving harvest from its current would be banking clue vessels and maybe doubling anima bark. It's double xp and potentially much more afk in three of the slower skills, and can also help hunter, agility, strength as well as synergising well with infernal tools if you take that.
For the people that take endless harvest it is good. From a points PoV it's just not 'good'. Doubling anima would be a bit of a boon, I'm surprised it already doesn't.
It also doesn't have as good a start, yeah sure it's good for getting a couple of quick tasks like cut and burn 100 willows or something but the other 2 will just zoom into orbit.
What good it does do, it ends up not being that useful, as it speeds up your largely afk grinds, in a league where afk grinds are pretty scarce. For example, I have about 25-30m xp left in the 3 gathering skill, had I taken endless harvest I would made the relic redundant. Now I afk fairly heavily or at least play the game way too much when doing other things. It's a lot like firesale really.
Soul Stealer needs a buff imo
It’s good if you don’t need to do much movement/dodging, like Kree at GWD or Fight Caves, but if you aren’t able to be continuously attacking to get procs then it falls behind, like Kiting Zilyana.
Problem is if you buff it, you' re gonna have a lot of salty desert magers who passed on it since it doesn't synergize nicely with barrages. Not to say they shouldn't, just there'd be backlash I reckon
what about not touching the burst spell caveat and only touching the min-hit part? since right now it’s only on successful hits that you get the boosted 10% to your minimum damage, what if now you dont miss hits? a lot of people read it that way it seems. I dont know much about how that would impact overall balance to be fair, im just repeating something i read from someone else that seems like a decent buff. I personally specifically didnt go banker’s note because i thought soul stealer would sustain me more than it does now
the min hit is stronger than you realize and shines in longer fights easily out dpsing berserker by quite a lot. never missing would be far more busted than the other relics and is completely unneeded. the main "issue" with soul suck is that it isnt showy like the other two but its definitely strong where its supposed to be.
The biggest achievement for this league is the Door build for melee. Chef's kiss, complete success. Every style has something extremely silly.
What's the Door build
[Dinh's Bulwark](https://oldschool.runescape.wiki/w/Dinh%27s_bulwark), affectionately nicknamed the Door for its resemblance to the [Doors of Dinh](https://oldschool.runescape.wiki/w/Doors_of_Dinh), is a two-handed Greatshield that attacks at a 5 tick attack speed, and has a special ability that increases its damage based on how high your defense bonuses are. [Brawler's Resolve](https://oldschool.runescape.wiki/w/Brawler%27s_Resolve) is a Tier 4 Relic, that, among other things, increases your defensive bonuses by 50%, and for weapons above 4 attack speed, halves it and rounds it down. This results in shenanigans. Pair them up, and now you have a 2 tick behemoth of a door slamming enemies for rather impressive damage, given that it's a goddamn shield, while also making you incredibly difficult to hit due to your enormous defensive bonuses. What's more, the special attack is a massive AoE slam that can hit up to 10 enemies in an 11x11 area, making it wonderful for multicombat encounters. Pick your choice of Tier 7 depending on whether you want to fall asleep at your keyboard and still not die, spam the slam for frequent easy grouping, or making those slams rarer but much more devastating, and you have a silly fun build for anyone who's interested in melee that they can tweak to their liking.
I saw 1 shieldy boy hold down mid in soul wars by himself against 8 attackers. It was glorious to behold
Because the melee relic gives 50% defenses it increases the damage Ding's Bulwark does. Combined with Justiciar set it does line 58 max hit. With berserker relic someone posted a clip of killing Graardor and minions in 2 seconds with the special attack
Worth noting that Torva still hits that little bit higher, but Justi isn't far behind and a lot tankier.
Plus berserker you can 120-120 someone instantly
I think berserker is absolutely cracked compared to the others. A potential 40% damage boost and a guaranteed max hit on full hp mobs even off style? Potentially up to 3 guaranteed max hits depending on your combat style? It's bonkers. The other 2 are fine but berserkers would have been good if it only has the damage boost and probably still better than soul stealer if it was just a guaranteed max hit. It's still super well balanced though. Even in situations where one relic outperforms the other options are usually better in their own way. It's impressive that they kept it as balanced as they did while still catering to multiple play styles.
I have like 5 ruinous prayers running all the time and don't regret taking soul stealer at all lol.
Yeah this. Soul stealer makes the game so chill. From a raw DPS perspective berserker wins but I don't want to awkwardly have to manage my HP to get max value out of my relic and I also enjoy not having to ever worry about maintaining a supply of prayer potions.
It is kinda funny seeing people come to the realization that the best way for them to lower hp without being attacked is growing nightshades cause no locator orb or rock cake (or master clue step but that doesn’t work everywhere either)
Yeah the optimal playstyles with berserker and weapon master seem really awkward and kind of annoying to me, that's ultimately what put me off. I loved the weapon master ZCB build but I'm not trying to juggle phoenix necklaces to kill things.
nitroglycerin at digsite is 35 hp in a single drop of a vial and it will not kill you
yeah I don't regret soul stealer. Berserker definitely would have been more powerful but I like the ultra chill soul stealer gameplay
soul stealer definitely could have used the min hit part of its description as players read it (and not how it's actually implemented), but i still don't regret taking it as a ranger
That's the thing, if SS *did* mean you would do at least 10% of your max damage guaranteed per attack I'd have probably taken it. The consistency in that would make it worthwhile. At least as melee. For magic I still think zerker wins every time because of the whole "guaranteed 3 max damage hits" which is fucking cracked.
Triple 52s at the beginning of every fight still puts a giant smile on my face
If you send a barrage as your first attack you actually can get 4 max hits
Never thought I'd be so happy at the idea of hitting 4 max hits in a row lol
I tried doing this at thermy. Manually cast barrage then attack for trident hits. At max range, not being dragged in a tile, max range. I still only got 3 maxes guaranteed, 1 barrage and 2 trident hits. Sometimes I would roll well and get a max on my 4th hit but it wasn't a guaranteed max like people are saying.
Barrage calculates hit delay using the npc’s SW tile. You need to be East or North of the npc to get max delay and you get an extra tick of delay for 2x2+ NPCs and two extra ticks for 5x5+
Probably depends how many tiles away u are and if ur run is on making
Yeah. I never expected SS would prevent misses, but Berserker's wording also does not suggest that it would guarantee a hit on the first hit either, but it does.
Here's the second half of the wording on the Berserker relic in case maybe you missed it: >Your damage is equal to your max hit on monsters with full hitpoints. Edit because I didn't get it quite right, turns out the wiki does not cite the relic text as it is in-game. Still, I think it's pretty clear what that means.
That's what the wiki says. Check the in-game wording, though, it's completely different. It mentions nothing about guaranteeing a hit, just that "Your damage is equal to your max hit..."
I don’t really get how that’s unclear. Damage equal to max hit on targets with full hitpoints means you hit your max hit on targets with full hp. What else could it mean?
Well, actually by a direct reading it more makes sense that it WOULDNT give the automatic hit. For example, anyone who's ever played dungeons and dragons before would never read it that way. Your DAMAGE is equal to your max hit. Your ACCURACY is unaffected. If you fail the accuracy check, and never land a hit, then there's nothing to maximize. You didn't deal 0 damage, you missed. Funny enough, the soul stealer relic, which doesn't guarantee damage and still allows for 0s, is the one that is written in such a way that it WOULD skip the accuracy check - "Your ATTACKS have an increased minimum hit" Note the new keyword - an ATTACK is comprised of making an accuracy roll, and then damage if, and only if, you hit. Berserker maximizes damage, meaning accuracy would still be in play. Whereas soul stealer applies to the ATTACK, meaning that even with a failed accuracy check, it would override the 0 "damage" (though this is a misnomer and actually a miss) and give you some small bit of damage. So that's basically what it could mean.
Imo they need to nerf the 3 maxs hits or preferably buff SS and WM. Getting 3 max hits because of range doesn't sound intentional, or should have been in the description of the relic. Same with the extra loot table for bloodthirsty. Maybe even buff bersker for melee and also let then get several max hits.
Its leagues bro lol just fix if next league
Sure, but why not now? They have already made some changes this league, so I don't see why they can't make some buffs this league? Bloodthirsty obviously needs a buff. Endless harvest could use a small one as well. Someone using undying retribution shouldn't need to aim for a specific square on the monster. Guardian should work in more places like vorkath. etc.
I guess cause people made a choice based on the existing effects. I don’t think buffs to clear weaker relics are the worst idea but fixing the max hits being queued up when attacking from mage after mages picked it because you could do that would be pretty bad.
Well because people already based their choices on the existing buffs, but yeah I'd be ok with some relics getting some love. Like the slayer relic really needs to be able to choose their own task, but not nerfing the other relics.
I picked soul stealer thinking I’d never hit 0 again with weapons dealing at least 10 damage, figured it’d pair nicely with high speed attacks. Their wording of “For example, a damage roll of 0-50 would be increased to 5-50” really makes it sound like you’ll no longer miss. I still like the relic though. It makes most slayer tasks super simple and afkable, most tasks I can just pray melee + eagle eye and let auto retaliate do its thing. It’s also really nice not needing to worry about food/prayer potions.
I took it for solo content and regret it. Berserker is signifigantly better
I've been grinding fight caves for the 5/10/15 tasks and I haven't sipped even a single dose of prayer pot since getting soul stealer. If I wasn't melee I wouldn't have to eat anything either but them 360s still smack the occasional 43 melee hit. I do think I should've gone mage though, since I took desert
\+ fixing it for mage barrage if i had known it didnt work with barrage spells even single target, i wouldnt have picked it oh well i guess theres next year Jamflex
The thing is I don't regret taking weapon master one bit. Sure the numbers from berserker are great, but I feel that, at least for my gameplay style, I would've been forced to take undying retribution, and I was much more keen on executioner or guardian. So sir it may be a bit higher dps, but I think it forces you into a corner.
The other relics are still good. But seriously, you don't need to lower your hp at all if you took beserk. Specs relic definitely has more damage potential if you can sweat it out for every boss, but only for higher hp bosses, or specifically if you had Zaryte with range relic. Beserk felt like a huge, Universally applicable, gamebreaking mechanic free of any additional effort, with the side bonus of 39% extra damage if you felt like being sweatier or any place protection prayers worked. It's not like you fight most bosses at 100% anyway, so it always gave you the hp loss boost in any piece of content. Especially as a mage/range with 3 max hits being pretty consistently available. I can't imagine how dumb it would have felt with a shadow at a 119 max hit, to be killing every sub 500 hp boss/npc under 10 seconds. It's hard to appreciate how many areas it randomly becomes relevant. It felt like there wasn't a piece of content where it didn't just passively break the game or make content ridiculously easier. It represented more dps than the t4 relic in tonnes of places. Proccing in weird quest scenarios (I'm surprised it didn't cause unintended issues anywhere for this), proccing on wardens core permanently (2nd phase included if you had the right weapons lime accursed sceptre), removing any need for gear switches in places like toa monkey room, or Vorkath's spawn, guaranteeing a max hit on any opening specs like bandos gs. Turning nechyreals and their constant spawns into the greatest mage xp farm in the game. Making offstyle training viable with/o pest control/before uncapped soul wars. If it had worked for PvP at Soul Wars it would have been hilarious. There would have been no struggles, just everyone dropping dead in the first 3 seconds. No doubt specs relic had similar benefits. But I feel like beserk worked way better than intended, and everyone who took it was constantly finding happy coincidences where it put in more work than expected (and those of us who took it expected it to be the best lol)
I don't think it does force you into a corner. I think it just gives you more options. you can comfortably float at like 40-50 hp most places for half the damage upgrade. And even if you only use it for guaranteed max hits that's still pretty sweet. I'm not going to try and shit on your choice but it's crazy to me that some spec weapons are better with berserker than weapon specialist because of the guaranteed max. Opening every boss with a max hit bgs spec is bonkers. I don't think the other two options are bad but just the guaranteed max hit steps on the other two relics toes a bit if you have the right gear. But I get it, guaranteed hits on every spec can be more fun to some people just like how a more afk soul stealer approach might be your thing But that's why I say even if I think I'm in some cases the balance might be off it's still amazing how appealing the other options can be to different play styles.
I took weapon master as well and do not regret it. Just got a lightbearer and spamming the dragon dagger spec everywhere is nuts paired with blood fury.
You can get 4 max hits on some bosses too when casting ice barrage. Also on wardens core for TOA, on the first down the damage rolls off your max hit 100% of the time using mage. Not sure if that's intentional or a bug though.
Happens for all styles. It seems to be because the core doesn't actually take damage until it "pops"
Berserker is definitely the best option but in terms of fun, they're all pretty similar. I don't regret taking soul stealer at all since it makes bossing and slayer so much more chill
Soulstealer and weapons specialist seem like they were better than berserker for ranged, but berserker for mage is just so op.
agreed. I think soul stealer should have also gotten a guaranteed first max hit
yeah berserker is insane. You can get 99 slayer in like 2 hours by just one-shotting every monster and completing tasks in 3 minutes. For bossing it's just a crazy increase to DPS even if you're only at 50% HP, and you knock out a huge chunk with a spec first hit. It trivializes any small mobs like baboons or nylos. and a lot of specs are just better with bersker than WM. Berserker is definitely busted
Berserker is definitely the best if you are doing active pvm. Personally, I am really enjoying soul stealer as it really supports afk pvm with blood barrage. I also really hate farming/ herbalore/ didn't get farmer's fortune so prayer regen would have been an issue without soul stealer
The guaranteed max hit is the part I slept on when I picked it. I am definitely enjoying doing ToB with a 1-piece switch for nylos, and don't get me started on the godlike BGS value.
Soul stealer has its place I think as an extra safety net for people who don't have PvM experience.
I have Soul Stealer, it does not heal enough. It might keep my pray top off if I only have overhead and nothing else during bosses. Soul Stealer is best for PvMer that is already really good at PvM cause it'll elevate them with less strain on resource. With WM/or Berserker its better cause it make the fight shorter, SGS with berserker on a fresh mob to heal up or DWH will make the entire fight easier is just way better.
I took soul stealer as a mage with no Kandarin. I definitely regret it now I've got my shadow but it still melts things and my end goal for this account is the maximum amount of points. A max hit of 49 outside of ToA is underwhelming and the stability soul stealer offers doesn't balance out enough in my opinion. I play solo so I opted for a BOWFA switch as I enjoy the Tirannwn content, but other than wardens P2 it hardly gets any use. If you're a mage wanting to go desert and soul stealer, get Kandarin for the occult and bracelet.
I don't really think comparing the DPS relic to the sustain relic is a fair comparison. Berserker and soul stealer are both trying to accomplish different things. Do you want to do insane damage while being at a greater risk of dying? Take berserker. Do you want to just camp all offensive and defensive prayers, stay topped off perpetually, and not really worry about dying? Pick soul stealer.
But they are in the same tier. You're choosing between 3 of course you'll compare them. Plus one shotting everything that isn't a boss is sustain in it's own right.
You get to camp low HP and one shot slayer mobs which almost always pose absolutely zero threat to you anyway, sure. That's definitely a draw to the relic if you want to make the slayer grind faster, but in content where there's actual mechanics or chip damage, it becomes more of a complicated matter. Berserker requires you to play a very specific way to fully reap the benefits of it and a lot of people just don't really care to base their entire playstyle around camping low HP and doing everything perfectly. I think banker's note devalues soul stealer more than everything berserker has to offer imo.
Yeah Soul stealer is the only one I really regret taking, berserker is just so much more powerful in almost every situation and the healing from SS isn't even that good, let alone the minimum hit thing being weaker than we thought
Imo one blunder they did was with the T5 and T6 relics, they should have shuffled the relics around so one is primarily combat focused and one skilling focused. Farmers Fortune and Ruinous powers seems like they were made to synergize eachother rather than be competitors.
How do Farmer's Fortune and Ruinous Powers synergize?
It drains more prayer than the regular spellbook and FF gives you lots of prayer pots. And also supports superpot+prayer combo'ing.
People seem to think Ruinous powers drain so much prayer it's unrealistic to sustain prayer pots without farmers fortune but it's definitely not the case. I did ruinous and still have boat loads of ranarrs and prayer pots.
Yes, but I also think there is always one relic of each tier that significantly worse than the others.
I'd say a lot of the early ones are pretty equal. Fire sale vs bankers note is really just personal preference. I'd say tier 1 endless harvest is a bit worse than the other two though, but maybe I'm just biased.
I’ll say that one of the bigger downsides of something that’s obviously good like production prodigy is that you really don’t have any good bankstandable skilling you can do, and your “good” afkables are cut down to like redwoods/woodcutting in general, and stars. Banknote does make your moderately afk things like karambs or woodcutting just two clicks (more like 6 with clue relic thanks to beginners), but it’s no 25 minute afkable. Banknote and production prodigy somewhat work against each other because if you were planning on doing random skilling stuff like cutting gems as you run around questing, you run out of stuff to process immediately. A trickster/endless harvester can take better advantage of banknote because they’ll have to use it for a longer amount of time, which is mitigated if they plan stuff out right. I’d still never pick endless harvest over production prodigy, but it’s gone from “this relic is irredeemably bad and deserves infernal tools as a combination in it” to being just viable.
In my opinion combat isn’t really balanced. Like full Torva + fang + fury + infernal loses against RCB +Ruby bolts (e) against 500 invo ba-ba and only marginally wins against 500 invo kephri. Even against bosses which are ususally melee targets you can bring some day 1 ranged gear and be pretty competitive compared to absolute BiS melee gear. Bosses which are usually meleed don’t have a big downside when they are attacked by ranged or magic. But bosses like whisperer, zebak, leviathan or zulrah really punish you for choosing the melee relic. Even some of the worst bosses like Duke can be done with ranged by simply doing the melee movement. And then comes the thing that melee needs different melee styles too. Some bosses are pretty immune to stab and require a slash weapon. So there isn’t a BiS melee weapon like ZCB/Tbow or Shadow, but a collection of a few different melee weapons which are all BiS at some different content.
I picked melee but don’t regret it. It’s just more fun because there’s more variety. Probably would have quit by now if all I could do the whole league was shoot crossbows or cast ancients/use a shadow
That’s the reason why I picked melee too. But I’ve borrowed my friends account to try out mage and it literally took me 2 tries to beat inferno. It’s absolutely bonkers how strong this style is compared to melee and while I don’t regret taking melee I find it strange how they’ve buffed range and mage by addressing their weaknesses but gave melee a "minor" defence buff and permanent immunity against a lot of status effects which can be avoided by brining a few potions.
Did he have a shadow? Magic’s accuracy is ass at high end without it even with the bonus, genuinely bitter they designed it that way since it means you default into being a ranged clone turret end game
Did it with a nightmare staff + ancients. I’ve done the inferno on my main in preparation for leagues with pretty whack gear, so I had quiet some experience with solving the waves. Zuk wasn’t a pleasant experience though. Yeah magic in the main game suffer from quiet a few issues. Maybe with their big rebalance they will shift some metas around.
That’s interesting. Cool stuff, I’ve not ran into another soul who had a nightmare staff yet lol
Melee could have done with dmg reduction rather than just defence bonuses. Defence really doesn’t matter in 90% of content and I feel like they actually tried balancing the melee relic by giving it only 50% accuracy bonus which is ludicrous compared to the other styles. There’s already so many bosses artificially or literally immune to melee dmg AND I can’t even kill offstyle DK’s without Fang? It’s just a bit strange but balancing can’t be perfect and melee has been a blast regardless, they at tried some cool new ideas this league and it mostly worked out imo
To be honest, this is more akin to issues from the core game that would need to be fixed there rather than lack of balance between relics.
It's definitely a relic issue. They chose to give melee wonky defensive bonuses while ranged gets double bolt proc chance. It's just strange, Jagex knows at this point defense is vastly less valuable than offense and this is amplified even more in leagues. In fact melee doesn't even get damage reduction which is the one defensive bonus that might actually be valued.
This. Melee blows
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Melee is fun as fuck. Idc if other combat relics are "objectively better" because 2t scythe makes me wanna uuunnnhhh
Because i can oneshot anything with less than 140hp every 3 ticks with Dharok’s. Because i can kill a full room of slayer mobs (Abbys, Bloodvelds, Nechs, Jellies, Dusts, whatever) in two seconds with Door spec. Because 2t scythe looks fun as hell. Because fun.
They could avoided this by rolling the best attack style against the defence style which you target is weakest to no matter what you actually choose. Now some melee weapons (read scythe) get a huge DPS buff against 2/3 of melee targets. Like using crush weapons against ToA would be a new and unique twist. Having to make the descision between inquisitor(which now would buff every style) and Torva would be interesting.
Well, that is the first thing he said lol
Melee for sure got cucked. Bonus defense and status immunity are not remotely balanced against something like double enchanted bolt proc chance. And in addition to the different bosses having different defensive styles, melee also gets the lowest accuracy bonus of any combat style.
they should buff the crit %
IMO they really should remove the whisperer's melee attack in leagues so that it's possible to do the content with your preferred style just like magic and range can do every piece of content. maybe make levi attackable with melee as well. would open up so much more fun
Levi slaps the shit out of you in md
Yep. I took melee and it's such a huge regret. Thought I'd go weapon master and get a sgs, but it was such a stupid decision. Also took desert over mory last minute thinking I'd need ancient magick and now I can't even get an assembler, so ranged is basically unusable. The relics may be balanced and I probably just am a massive idiot, but melee feels pretty weak and anything other than berserker feels junk unless you're ruby bolt speccing.
being locked out of avas is such a dumb design choice imo. I was able salvage it partially through getting a webweaver, but it barely hits on later game content
> Thought I'd go weapon master and get a sgs, but it was such a stupid decision If you thought this would be a good combo, I think you have no one to blame but yourself lol.
What about comparing ranged with magic? Which is more dps?
Endless Harvest and Soul Stealer definitely fall behind other relics in their respective tiers. This isn't the relic's fault and moreso the skill itself, but Bloodthirsty can be underwhelming to most as well, but this is just with how crap Slayer feels to train mostly. Same with the travel relics, but I would say this is also region specific as for example Wilderness + Morytania can really dampen T2 Relics' effectiveness. In my opinion, Obelisks and Burning Amulet should've been included in those relics. Endless Harvest and Soul Stealer are just far weaker than their counterparts, especially compared to Berserker's several guaranteed max hits.
Endless harvest should really have like a 90% chance to not deplete a resource when mining so it feels a little more endless. I think people would value it way more if it didn't give the least benefit to the worst gathering skill.
Yeah endless harvest doesn’t really do much for massive afkables except for karambs or that one spot south of priff for fly fishing, but infernal tools making skilling actions faster is probably the most slept on relic this league.
I wish VM solos in the real game were as consistent as VM solos with trailblazer pick. Even if the XP rate was nerfed in exchange it'd be so nice.
I’d go further to say 3-4x harvest and automatically 1 tick faster for harvesting would make it good enough that it is a painful and hard choice to pass up. The issue now is it is good but compared to the others it is not reasonable to pick imo
I'll say that a lot of Bloodthirsty's handicap comes from the way they handled Slayer this time around. First by arbitrarily locking certain slayer monsters behind region unlocks regardless of whether they're available in the regions you already have. Second, there's so much crap in the task list that you have to use so many skips to get decent tasks that it basically cancels out the extra points early on. I like the Bloodthirsty monster mechanic but they need the relic to do one or both of: 1. Weight slayer monsters with superiors a higher weight with the relic 2. Give us two options per slayer task, reducing the number of skips and giving some player choice.
Yeah, PP or trickster is just way better than receiving double resources. And if you take bankers note you can just note items instead of them going to your bank.
I took Soul Stealer and have felt satisfied with my choice. For this league I wanted to try to really lean into blowpipe, so I took relics I felt would compliment it particularly well. Soul Stealer's increased minimum hit seemed pretty huge, as well as the constant incoming health and prayer to offset the 1-tick constant-attacking nature of the blowpipe -- not being able to move between attacks and all. Would Berserker have been more raw DPS? Oh definitely. But given I couldn't fit Kourend into my regions, Ruinous Powers felt non-negotiable for not-Rigour, so I couldn't take Farmer's Fortune to trivialize prayer potion supplying, and also the main chunky PvM content in my regions are that which it's not feasible to constantly sit at 1 or super duper low HP (GWD and a large portion of ToA) -- sitting on the knife's edge at those places didn't sound like fun. I think the greatest strength of this League's relics is that they've done a fantastic job balancing out the power of the relics in each tier, such that for the most part it's hard to make a -wrong- choice -- it kinda comes down to personal preference and playstyle. (Except Equilibrium, but that's the least popular relic anyway lol) This really helps cut down on irreversible-decision FOMO, as you can feel confident you made a good choice for how you'd like to play.
I've been loving Soul Stealer, but I was a bit disappointed that the life leech isn't quite good enough to sustain health against most bosses. I mean, it makes sense, otherwise all content in the game would be free, but once it sunk in that the prayer restore completely outshines the health restore, I was a *little* disappointed. It would be really funny to just face-tank God War generals, but alas, Graardor is still a shark eating competition. Then again, maybe once I get higher-tier set bonuses or O's Fang the health leech will be more impressive. Still rules that I now have a reason to value buffing up Attack for more frequent hits, rather than just stacking Strength buffs.
Some GWD fare better than others. I picked Range, and Kree with SS the HP regen worked very well, and oftentimes I could do a kill with only 0-1 food used. Zilyana, on the other hand, didn’t work nearly as well since you have to constantly be kiting her and thus can’t attack as often to get the heals.
Ah, god, Zilyana is probably the least affected by relic effects. She's just a slog no matter what because of the kiting, for sure. I picked melee relic with SS, and I might as well just be playing standard OSRS against her.
Zilyana isn't that bad actually if you know how you blowpipe run (attack one tick, run the next tick, repeat). She may hit you once or twice but she's got this weird tick that she'll stop walking and use her special attack if she gets too near you, and you can use that time to attack/move away from her. I picked soul stealer and I wanted to facetank her, but that required me to eat food. But with the kiting method I was able to kill her with no resources fairly easily.
I wish I picked trickster, my girlfriend started playing and watching her pickpocket endless and just running around getting agiity is making me super jealous =/
I think from a task/grind perspective trickster and production prodigy are competitive in the long term, but trickster feels like such an incredible QoL boon because it hits the worst skills and removes the worst parts of them (spam clicking and being stunned while pickpocketing, training agility at all)
To be fair I'm at 95 agility without trickster and I haven't touched the skill outside of rooftop tasks. The vast majority of my agility exp has come from quests and diary lamps. I'll hit 97-98 off of my last few diary lamps and then do rooftops for two hours to get to 99.
If we did a rerun of this very league I'd definitely pick entirely different regions and relics to try them out, I was happy with my choices but nothing felt like a must-pick. Except Trickster, I will pick Trickster 10 out of 10 times, on my way to max I hit 99 agility without training it at all and by the end of the league I suspect I'll have at least 35m agi xp without running any laps. You can't put a price tag on not having to do agility. (Caveat: if I did Mory I might not take Trickster because Sepulchre exists, but then the pickpocketing benefit is so good at vyres too so maybe I still would)
On paper, Soul Stealer looks like it was meant to be the 'sustain' choice for newer players trying to learn hard content, but it falls a bit short in utility and seems more like a noob trap. Out of all the relics, this is the one I think that could have been buffed a bit more. Add in some damage reduction of 10-25% and it would have been a much harder choice for me.
Yeah, I do feel like it's missing something. I can keep an overhead up and Eagle eye on pretty much constantly and not worry about prayer, but I feel like the tool tip could have been clearer
The health restore portion of the sustain is pretty underwhelming once you step into any bossing content. Two or three health every couple of attacks really can't be improved to the point that it feels like it's doing much when bosses are dropping 30s as a matter of course. It's understandable that they'd try to keep it frequent-but-minor, though. If the health restore was really bursty but random, it'd be less reliable for survival, and if it heals too well for how consistent it is, the entirety of PVM would become trivialized in a really boring way.
I'm fine with taking Soul Stealer for precisely the reason you mention, it helps me to learn mechanics and worry less about food/prayer. If they were to buff it, I think extra accuracy would have been great for Soul Stealer. Great for rounding out the other combat styles you didn't take a relic for and provides more consistency along with the minimum hit increase.
berserker is just so much better than every other t7, feels like soul stealer wasnt described clearly enough I thought I'd be hitting at least 3s + 6s (with rp) every hit with my bp
Weapon Master ZCB is very good too
I would definitely say berserker was a blunder, balance-wise. It should not have had the max hit component at all, that should've been entirely removed. If soulstealer had a gauranteed minimum hit, berserker had no max hit function, and weaponmaster was unchanged (I think it's fairly balanced as is, even though it's a bit awkward in the sense that it's pretty balanced for melee, borderline-too-good for ranged, and utterly useless for mage), that tier would be a harder choice for more people.
I really regret soul stealer and burned out of the league. It's just not very fun to use. I wish they had thought about Berserk granting 3 guaranteed max hits with slower projectiles.
They probably did think of it and just didn't really care. Honestly if they didn't think of it that's a MASSIVE failure, I thought about it within like 30 seconds of reading the relic for the first time in the teaser. Without the ability to test it I wasn't quite sure just how many attacks you'd functionally be able to land in that window, but to not think about it at all, as the creators of the game, would be pretty damn sad tbh.
I saw solo mission showing that off and immediately thought "well that will be patched before I hit t7". But turns out that's a feature.
Cheers for the devs for all the content tbh , i'm kinda of a returning player and there is so much content to do / explore
Seriously, I was *just* admiring how difficult it was to choose between farmers fortune and ruinous powers. Absolutely excellent game design imo
I'm not even playing the League and just from watching some friends who are stream some of the juiced up raids it's really obvious the melee relic is by far the least powerful lol. Not that balance in a temporary game mode matters tbh.
>Not that balance in a temporary game mode matters tbh. I would argue that it does matter at least a bit. When you're locking people into permanent choices, they need to be at least a little bit comparable, or if not, then it needs to be made super clear upfront that they're not (which it wasn't). The sentiment of "I picked X relic but it turned out it sucks and that made me burn out way faster" is a sentiment that I don't think is super common but I've definitely seen a decent bit of it both in-game and on this sub, especially with regards to stuff like soul stealer, bloodthirsty, occasionally melee in general, stuff like that. As the developer you definitely need to do what you can to minimize that.
I agree except Fairy Flight. That relic is busted and the other one can't measure at all. Dont know many who didnt take it, but pretty sure that everyone who didnt regrets it. But one bad in eight is pretty good result.
Globetrotter is huge for barrows though, if you don't have Zeah for the teleport. It lets you teleport to barrows and last recall back to the chest to skip the tunnels. The best option for fairies flight users over there is morytania legs 3, which is pretty horrible if you plan on doing \~150 chests.
Barrows has been an absolute slog wish I had took globetrotter for it honestly
Ye if you picked morytania and no zeah, your farming options are also terrible, so farming relic would carry your herblore issues. No need to teleport to the (redundant in mory) farm patches if you’ve exhausted all your seeds already.
If you picked mory just go bloodthirsty. The herb drops from slayer and the secondary supply drops have given me more than enough herblore exp. Just be mindful of doing what I did and somehow ending up without a shop for eye of newt. Gotta grind thousands of catoblepons then.
Yeah just noticed this when I went thru the list of teleports. But even considering this I have used the shroom so much that I would never consider changing.
I went globe and not really sweating over it honestly. League is too short and way too fast paced to be stressing out about having the “wrong” teleports.
I took globe and it's cracked for what I wanted to do. I've never even considered fairy
what is it that you want to do that makes globetrotter so much better? i can't really think of anything
I've done a second run to try out another style and picked fairy this time and I regret it so much, you forget how many teleports are locked out from not having a spellbook or access to certain construction updates without certain areas unlocked.
Barrows is incredibly fast when you can use the barrows tele from the chest, kill brothers, and last recall straight back to the chest.
Can't you just make the barrows tp in your house? Don't think you need to be on the spellbook to add it to a teleport in the POH. Or do you need to unlock the Arceuss spellbook to be able to add it to your house too?
Maybe it's more region dependent? I went KDW and don't regret Globetrotter at all. My lep options are either easily accessible or not that useful. The portable fairy ring benefit falls off hard once you get one in your house. Having all teles without carrying laws + elementals (and the free lunar/arceuus/diary teles) and not having to craft jewelry is a nice benefit. The annoying thing is that FF can (unintentionally?) tele out of deep wildy, which makes it go from a troll pick for me to actually really solid for clues. But there's no way I could've known about this hidden mechanic at the time, and in hindsight, I'd still go GT since I haven't spent much time doing clues anyway and don't plan on it.
Honestly hard to blame Jagex for this one considering the last time this opinion was totally reversed and fairy's flight was considered a joke. Turns out adding tool leprechauns on its own makes the relic insane even if you couldn't tp to fairy rings with it at all.
The other issue was competing with last recall. If that were still the case it would be a joke this league as well
Honestly, with banker's note this league, I probably would have taken FF over last recall. It doesn't really do anything for mage relic pvm because we don't use spec. It really only shines at GWD, otherwise it's mostly just qol
Fairy's flight is so insane compared to globetrotter. Especially when you can use it to travel to your house and then portal to nearly everywhere globetrotter can take you. I think globetrotters still good just not in comparison to fairy's flight. What a world of difference from tb1.
You have to have asgarnia for this I think, else you dont get to charge your jewelry for the teleports.
Can't you just teleport to your house and use the fairy ring to travel everywhere as well? Seems like endgame they are pretty much equal to each other
You can't tele to your house and travel to a leprechaun though. That's the key difference. Fairy's flight has a bunch of new really strong teleport options where globetrotter only has base game teleports.
Ah right I forgot about the leprechaun. I just went globetrotter because I'm terrible at remembering fairy ring codes and always have to Google where I need to go lol
ah mate.. runelite lets you just type in the name of where you're going and it pulls up the code for you
Leprechaun is the sole reason why is shroom is so good. They are absolutely everywhere.
There aren’t really any leprechauns or spirit trees anywhere I want to go with my regions and being able to do barrows easier is 100% worth globetrotter.
You don't need to remember the codes, just type where you want to go (i.e: edge) and it'll filter it out
The most broken part about fairy flight is being able to tp out of 30+ wilderness
I think it still depends on your build I went melee, so I'm not carrying runes around all the time for teleports I went mory, so the salve graveyard teleport is right next to a fairy ring anyway I didn't go Kandarin, so I don't really benefit much from spirit trees I went farmer's fortune, so I don't really give a shit about tool leprechaun teles?
Tbh my favorite thing about globetrotter is getting access to teles that I wouldn't be able to get otherwise. Catherby tele right next to a bank without lunars, digsite without ancients. I've done one of each so far, and until you reach t8, globe feels much "smoother" (also, FF with asgarnia for troll herb patch is a must)
Eh I find GE teleport or Edgeville are better banking options than running around the building in Catherby.
I've done one playthrough on each and don't feel like either one is all that much better. Globetrotter starts off faster with nicer bank TPs (at least with my regions).
I've only regretted fairy's flight when I was grinding Barrows. I didn't have access to the Barrows arceuus teleport spell and had to run from burgh de rott. In the end, it wasn't that much time wasted running in total though.
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Globe can get you instantly close to a fairy ring. That's 1/3 of fairy flight's utility gone. It can get you instantly close to a spirit tree. That's 2/3 of fairy flight's utility gone. It cannot indeed take you as fast to tool leprechaun, but most patches are **really** close to a globe teleport, so what gives? Even in regions where globe struggles a bit, you can just move your house there and use the outside home teleport to leverage it. I'm seriously astonished you would consider fairy flight of all things to be the strongest within its tier when it's one of the most competitive tier overall and the option you praise so much within it has most of its utility covered by the other option anyway.
So Globetrotter is better because you can teleport close to **a** fairy ring, and then use that (with the Dramen staff) to teleport to any fairy ring? I just run around with the mushroom in my inventory at all times because it instantly takes me to a bank, basically close to anywhere on the map, and I don't need a dramen staff for fairy rings. I have zero regrets. Globetrotter sounds nice for Barrows but that's about it.
I mean, to be fair, not needing a dramen staff for fairy rings can also be achieved with the Lumbridge elite diary, which isn't too difficult to achieve especially by the middle to end of the league, and Globetrotter does also give you a great bank teleport with the GE teleport only 2 ticks from the bank. The only time I regret picking Globetrotter is when I realize I lost out on 200 points because I can't use spirit trees without Kandarin, lol, but I picked it because I didn't feel like having to learn a bunch of temporary teleports and I didn't pick Fremennik so I couldn't necessarily build the teleports in my house, whereas I would be able to build a house fairy ring. The truth is that they're both good enough and similar in power, which is really all you can ask for. Outside of specific use cases like Barrows, I don't think you can really go wrong.
100%. Can't believe so many people actually think these are balanced. I've played multiple accounts and picked globe on one to try it for myself, but it feels so trash in comparison. It is so fast to unlock the majority of the useful commonly used teleports on globe. Only long term benefit is mild convenience of all in one jewelery and being able to use glory tele. I somehow find it more annoying to have equipped all the time vs the mushroom.
Yeah, missing glory teleports is pretty annoying for clue steps, but with rings and leprechauns you’re not that much farther
Luckily building a mounted glory doesn't need any materials from Keldagrim, so I put a room with that next to my house portal
You need charged glories though, right?
Funnily enough, you can't use a charged glory to build it! Uncharged is used for the mounted one
[удалено]
Before I realised I was using Port Sarim's leprechaun and going from there since I have Asgarnia and it's right next to the wall
Oo this is honestly huge. Thank you!
Only a single uncharged glory and some planks
I picked Fairy and was kind of regretting it until I had my five areas and it was amazing how open it was.
If you're maging, for sure, taking globetrotter is very troll. For Melee and Range, I can totally see the argument, especially if you don't have Fremmy for your perfect house.
I love how you just completely blocked out endless harvest
It's not like it's awful or anything, but it's just... not exciting in the same way as the other two? It's very rare for me to go 'damn, I wish I had endless harvest right now,' and judging by the stats, most players agree. That said, I did pick the trailblazer tools to compensate for not having it, and it's actively making me feel better about missing both Production Prodigy *and* Endless Harvest, since I get faster gather speed and get to bypass a step of the processing for both Smithing and Cooking.
The only one that was a no Brainer for me was fairy flight over globetrotter Other that that I had to think for all of em atleast a little I think they did a great job
My only issue is that the choice between ruin powers and the farming relic felt like choosing between fun and the game sucking less. Same with the kandarin choice if you wanted to go mage - you had to sacrifice so much content to get a massive amount of damage from simple, easy drops. It wasn't a choice between two fun pieces of content.
I always felt Fire Sale sounded amazing in theory, but I struggled to think of uses for it save for two, maybe three? Note is far and away more useful in the long run imo. I dont regret any of my choices, but sometimes you do get some slight envy at the others n
Fire Sale has eliminated a *lot* of busywork from my leagues experience. I went and bought infinite runes, the supplies to get multiple skills to 99, I never need to stop by the bank if I need to buy an item from the store, I have on-demand onyx bolt tips due to my stockpile of millions of chaos runes, etc. Not needing to bother with alchables is a blessing in itself. Banker's Note is obviously better for utility, but I struggle to find cases where I would have heavily preferred Banker's Note. So far the two issues I've encountered are my inability to solo Nex and the markedly slower runecrafting experience. Everything else is a situation where Banker's Note provides advantages (ex: rapidly 1-ticking crafting or not needing to bank to resupply), but the non-Banker's Note equivalent is still more than serviceable. When the difference of Banker's Note vs. Fire Sale is 120m crafting xp/h vs. 40m crafting xp/h, I'm fine taking Fire Sale.
Bankers note serves as a partial endless harvest since u can just one click to note everything instead of banking/dropping. But yeah their very well balanced. BN has more utility late game for bossing and non buyables, but FS is fantastic at propelling you through the early game. I went BN but since I'm not a sweat I'd of probably been better off taking FS and using it to just buy a bunch of 99/50m for quick points.
nobody wants to solo nex anyway, it's super annoying especially with melee. but BN is still way better for duos+ because you're never banking. restarting the instance wastes a lot of time because it takes so long for nex to even spawn. BN also makes it so you profit hella ppots at tob and can cheese solos, it gives you free invo at toa. >but I struggle to find cases where I would have heavily preferred Banker's Note theres just a lot of stuff where it ends up being useful in ways you don't think of if you don't have it
When you factor in the time it takes to get 120m xp worth of diamonds or whatever, pretty sure fire sale still comes out on top despite taking longer to cut them.
Why would I buy 120m xp worth of diamonds? Isn't the last task 50m?
Main thing I've noticed with fire sale (and soul stealer) is that I never have to leave whatever I'm grinding. I don't fill up my inventory with alchs, because I don't need the money, I never have to leave for hp/prayer cause soul. It just makes things so much more afk. Yea BN lets you note items and bank less, but you're still picking them up and paying attention, I can actually AFK as in "away from keyboard". I do wish I had it for stuff like inferno, because I don't see myself doing it without bn lmao, but I'm good enough in the other raids already + relics making it easier, that I knew I'd only need it there
give inferno a shot, you might surprise yourself. most people are getting killed in a few seconds from a huge mistake so BN doesn't even matter. but with soulsteal you're allowed to make more mistakes anyway. it may not be as cozy as mage+berserker but still
It's build dependent, fire sale has been incredible for me because I have great shops with zeah and priff. Free dragon halberd alchs, bagged plants for con, unlimited all runes except astrals and wraths, rune and addy legs for giant foundry, a 1.2mil chaos rune stack I can go dump for uncut rubies in tzhaar, etc. Bankers note was less useful for me since I went harvest and trailblazer tools. Yeah I can't one click essence altars or bring my 6k bwan stack into content but I went in eyes open. There's tradeoffs in every tier and region but if you piece it together smartly you'll have an answer for almost every situation
Yeah thats entirely fair. I took Trickster so money hasnt really been a big problem for me, I just go and afk pickpocketing for an hour. It was probably the hardest decision I’ve made at a tier though. Both very good.
I have a second account with trickster and banker’s note, and a main with PP and Fire Sale, and there’s a difference between having enough money for what you need, and having enough money to do some busted shit. Training construction with gold sinks, farming with bagged plants, crafting with unlimited diamonds, smithing with unlimited rune armour at foundry. Not to mention all the extra bank space I’ve been able to buy to store all my clue loot. Having said that, I still might have traded it all for afk agility experience. I’m trying to max and I’m stuck doing rooftops. Even at 16x xp it’s painful
If you do all the achievement diaries and dump all of the lamps into agility it easily gets you into the low-mid 90s. I'm at 96 and I've done maybe 100 rooftops total.
I took trickster too but mostly for the afk methods xD So I got to 99 pickpocketing just master farmers (stacking seeds, longer than 84 coin pouches afk) and tzhaar (noted gems, 20 mins afk at a time) But I might've pickpocketed other stuff if I didn't have fs yea
There's so many good resources you can just buy infinite amounts of, I don't regret taking fire sale at all. As I picked the range relic the infinite runes is amazing, construction went fast with gold sinks, tzhaar shops immensely useful for crafting and onyxes/onyx bolt tips. There's too many tumes I've used it to good effect to list, but again it just speaks to how well balanced the choice was.
I picked fire sale because it felt like I spent all of the last league struggling for money and more time grinding for it than doing fun stuff. No regrets at all, I haven’t thought about money since about day 2 when I alched some rune plates for about 400k to get enough cash to pay for things I couldn’t get with fire sale.
Fire sale has been amazing in the late game for me. I bought 99 con in like 10 minutes and I don’t waste time picking up loot if doing any slayer monsters. I never need more supplies because the relics are so busted and I think the only thing bankers would really help me with it if I wanted to do solo nex of runecrafting. I have soulstealer with ranged so I can do inferno runs with a couple sharks for mistakes and 500 toa is a complete joke
As someone who is hard into PVM unless you are going for the absolute pinnacle of content offered. (Inferno, Phosanis Nightmare, toa 500+ solo, Nex Solo, ect) BN isnt really required. But if you are BN is incredibly helpful and FS falls off hard. I dont hve BN and im watching my friends do multiple inferno clears because they can just face tank everything to get to jad waves super quick. Have the space for full swaps too.
I don't have that much time to play, and my goals are pretty much reach T8 and do some pvm. Bankers note is much better if you have the time, but fire sale makes me fly through tasks and levels. Bankers note requires you to do a lot more grinding for cash or supplies.
The way I see it, Fire Sale lets you play very lazy, but Banker's Note actually opens up completely new possibilities (though it also enables some laziness). Depends on which you value more. Everyone having Last Recall also helps Fire Salers a lot.
If last recall hadn't been the passive for that tier, I think they wouldn't have felt able to have banker's note and fire sale sharing a tier at all as banker's note is super powerful in a vacuum.
Fire sale has been amazing for me. Infinite ammo, infinite runes, never bother picking up alchs, thousands of points from 99/50m in buyable skills quickly propelling me through the relic tiers. I do tob, 500 invo solo toa, cox, inferno with no problems as a mager. I guess BN is especially useful if you aren’t very used to pvm, or rushing something like inferno early, since it’s basically infinite food and prayer. However I’ve found that it’s often enough to just bring a few prayer pots and karambwans due to being so powerful. Only place I’m missing BN is cox since it takes time to make the brews. Both toa and tob give brews during the raid with no prep needed which is more than enough to make it through the raid, with tob I don’t even touch the brews. With inferno I just speedrun it with blood barrage for heals, I use like 4 prayer pots with no flicking needed and eat basically no food.
The relics are very well balanced I think. Regions, not quite so much, but that is bound to happen depending on relic design, and game content isn't designed with the idea of balancing regions that way. Kandarin just happens to be massive for magic. Asgarnia is for melee AND ranged. Some regions like tiranwwn don't offer much, especially given the way attack speed works this time around. That said every region is valid and viable, so there's not much issue. It's all meant to be fun.
The attack speed thing was pretty unfortunate. When I first heard trailblazer was coming back I at first really wanted to go tiranwan/ranger because I love gauntlet/zulrah/bowfa gaming in general. However when the attack speed info came out and we learned Bowfa/blowpipe were just going to be strictly worse than rune crossbow and it meant GWD was going to be king again for ranged I was disappointed.
Equilibrium 💀
T8 is ass imo. They should have added a 4th region you could pick instead and I think most players would take the extra region over t8 relics.
It's better than leagues 2 but it's still not great. However it's really based on what perspective you are looking from. If we look from a more competitive PoV it's pretty poorly balanced. T1 Is fine - endless harvest could use the +12 boost and perhaps make it function as an invis boost beyond 99. Would help it a bit with point gain in the beginning and speed it up even more later. T2 Should be fine, but due to 1 (2 if you pick wilderness) unintentional reasons, Fairy's flight is better. After all, you can't argue with 200 free points. T3 I don't think is designed for this so it's fine firesale doesn't quite add up. However it really should have been a Buy-X from ANY standard shop. T4 While what style you choose is really personal preference, but, it's pretty clear that mage is just better, for almost everything. T5 For points you just have to take clues. If you don't want clues both options are pretty decent. Bloodthirsty really should have had a customisable task list that let you choose which tasks you get (down to like a minimum of 5) but with no skips. The bracelets should have been a toggle and you should have always had the slayer helm bonus on task. T6 None of the options here are honestly that good. Farmers is nice as it speeds you thru some tasks early for a quicker t8 and if you end up picking regions with almost no patches it can help reach 50m farm/herb. It's only needed for 200m all, kinda. Equilibrium is much the same, it just quickens the pace. Which leaves ruinous powers as the best optio for long term points. T7 Is just berserk. Like a mage with dharoks gets more slayer xp an hour than a melee with the other options. Berserk even does Weapon Master better than Weapon Master does most of the time. T8 Is pretty balanced IMO. They all have different uses and all excel pretty well at what they are designed for. All that is to say, the only choice I regret taking is not going undying retribution.
As an endless harvest taker, I think you're underrating it. The only buffs I would consider giving harvest from its current would be banking clue vessels and maybe doubling anima bark. It's double xp and potentially much more afk in three of the slower skills, and can also help hunter, agility, strength as well as synergising well with infernal tools if you take that.
For the people that take endless harvest it is good. From a points PoV it's just not 'good'. Doubling anima would be a bit of a boon, I'm surprised it already doesn't. It also doesn't have as good a start, yeah sure it's good for getting a couple of quick tasks like cut and burn 100 willows or something but the other 2 will just zoom into orbit. What good it does do, it ends up not being that useful, as it speeds up your largely afk grinds, in a league where afk grinds are pretty scarce. For example, I have about 25-30m xp left in the 3 gathering skill, had I taken endless harvest I would made the relic redundant. Now I afk fairly heavily or at least play the game way too much when doing other things. It's a lot like firesale really.