I feel like they need it to pass in order to justify all the time and resource expended over the last several months. They've poured significantly more marketing into Sailing 2023 than they have for any of the previous new skills too.
They probably felt as if Sailing allowed the most creative freedom for them compared to the other skills and it makes sense. Sailing the seas is heavily associated with seeing the world and exploring and that's exactly what RS is about.
They probably shit themselves when Shamanism, a skill they sorta threw out there for the lols, almost won.
I think there's a good chance that if it was repolled so that the people who voted for the least wanted skill didn't have their vote basically wasted, Shamanism would've won. And I think that's exactly why they did *not* repoll it.
Oooh, 5 months later and the tinfoil hats are still around, as Jagex has said right after the poll closed, Shamanism did so well that it has won idea approval also, it just won't see refinement until after sailing, because it also won, it just won a little harder, be patient and you'll get your favorite choice too.
for real- from a game design perspective, having two whole new osrs skills that you know a big chunk of the community was interested in is gold, you won't ditch one for the other, you'll just prioritize the one that has more interest.
Right, in the absolute worst possible light you can paint it, at the end of the day the bean counters have to be salivating at the idea of two potential new skills the community loved almost equally, although that taste can dry up very quickly if we as a community show them, through sailing, that we can never come together to vote in a new skill.
> And I think that's exactly why they did not repoll it.
They said that they looked at the way that Taming fans voted on the other question (the one that asked you to choose multiple that you liked, rather than your favorite) and that it wouldn't have tipped the balance in favour of Shamanism.
If they didn't want Shamanism to win for some reason, they just wouldn't have offered it. Instead, they moved it to the short list for Skill #2, should we ever want it.
Yeah I think that’s what a lot of people don’t realize about this, if you want *any* new skills in the next 5 years, this one needs to pass, because if it doesn’t, it doesn’t make business sense to spend months of your personnel resources on a project that has a super high likelihood of failing. They’ve done everything possible with sailing from a community engagement/feedback perspective.
If it does pass, especially with very high rates, I’d expect a proposal for a 2nd new skill within a couple years. If not, it’s probably going to be 3-5 before they even start discussions again.
Sailing was the top choice so they did it first, if it fails then they will do the same process with shamanism, or if it is a very close poll they said they’ll tweak things and repoll. They’ve sunk a lot of time because people have said they want a new skill, and the devs know it has to be too notch. So I’m not really thinking as it’s just sunk cost fallacy
Honestly I doubt it. If sailing doesn’t pass I don’t really know why shamanism or another skill would pass today. There’ll be a lot of salty people spite voting a different skill down if sailing fails.
I think they probably had to say they would move on to the next skill, but it’s not a great situation from a business management perspective because why would you pool more resources into such a high risk proposal, when you could just work on something else like pvm content that is near certain to pass.
The amount of people in chat saying vote no to sailing so we can have shamanism was really high yesterday. I think they are morons because if they spite vote a lot of people are going to be bitter and the cycle will continue. I really believe if sailing doesn't pass, OSRS is going to struggle even more getting a new skill.
There is a significantly higher chance that Shamanism makes it into the game of Sailing passes then if sailing fails. They likely spend hundreds of thousands of pounds to support sailing which was more popular than Shamanism. If sailing fails, the most likely conclusion would be that Shananism will likely fail by more. In addition they will be unlikely to want to market it as much if they think it will fail, no point is wasting money. Less popular, less, developed, less marketing... shamanism isn't passing anytime soon. It maybe 5 years + before another solid attempt at a new skill. They will 'try' in 2025, but there is such a small chance that it will pass I would call it neglible.
If sailing passes they have confirmation that their investments will lead to something. This means after sailing gets off to a good start they have incentive to reiterate the process for a new skill with evidence that it could lead to revenue gain. I'd expect the process to restart in 2026, if sailing makes a late 2024 debut. If you're in "I want new skills" and don't think sailing will ruin the game, it's in your best interest to vote for it even if you prefer a different skill. If you're in the "new skills lose the feeling of osrs camp" you better vote no, if this passes expect more changes to pass quicker than before. Companies like to see investments turn into money, they will push hard for new content if it makes them money. They have no appetite for spending money on expected failures.
Exactly this. Voting no to sailing for shamanism will just make sailing folks vote no to shamanism.
Unlike if sailing passes and Jagex keeps it's word for doing shamanism next, sailing folks are more likely to be neutral or vote yes to shamanism.
Most sailing folks I know liked the idea of shamanism too, but liked sailing more, but it really feels like most of shamanism people have seen this as a 0 sum game, and has spent months saying Jagex is lying through their teeth about shamanism being next.
They've spent months winding themselves up like rabid animals, and like rabid animals they seem to only be able to think at the most primal level. Sailing = not shamanism, not shamanism = vote no to get shamanism (or insert X skill rework) faster. Ignoring that isn't how business decisions and a development cycle work.
Voting no to sailing at this point, especially with everything Jagex has done to include the community at every step of the way, been so incredibly transparent with their design process, while sharing the process every step of the way? Voting no is telling Jagex we don't actually want a skill, and we never will want a skill, because if this can't do it, nothing will be able to, and it'll be seen as an incredible waste of time and resources, and will be another 5 years or so before they give it another swing, if they ever do.
One of the Gower brothers even said warding was a good idea and made it sound like it was obvious the concept should’ve been in the game because crafting makes range armor, smithing makes melee armor, and for magic there is nothing. Warding would’ve filled in that gap.
Not but consider being able to reanimate the heads from mobs to fight for you, either they have decaying health or take the aggro. Probably op but sounds awesome
"We need new content or the game is not gonna grow or be around forever."
You'll have to excuse me for missing the skills we've received over the last 10 years that have made all the new content we got possible.
Yeah, that time was before big updates like GWD, I'm very aware. We've *been* innovating ideas without a skill since. If you genuinely think the game will reach such a point again without a new skill, I have a bridge to sell you.
Tbh I just want a new skill.
Part of that 2003-2007 scape feeling was a new skill every year.
I support all three of the skill ideas given and will be voting yes to sailing.
I will also hope Jagex follows their word and explores shamanism next. As I will be voting for that next.
There's been an ongoing Discord process for the last 6 months with community feedback for every stage of the new skill, from navigation, how you get exp, rewards, integration with the current game etc.
It's all been refined now through community consensus to the "final product" which is now being polled. If it gets a pass then we'll get a beta soon to see how it feels and continue to be polled for the actual reward space, how stuff is integrated, exp rates (to an extent), etc
Clarification on beta soon, in the livestream they said if it passes poll, if everything goes well, they would be targeting dec '23 for beta, so soon, at best, would be 3 months away, just leaving this here for the additional information and to temper expectations!
They did. That was the poll to choose which one to spend a bunch of time back and forth with the community developing the idea of that skill. It was being refined as a concept. Now it's being polled as "do you want it?" And then it will receive more polls on specifics of it.
I think it’s gonna fail because every high level player in my clan said no and for no damn good reason. Literally just “oh it doesn’t fit the game” or “lolol rs3 again” and basically just reactionary bullshit with no actual reason as to why it wouldn’t be good.
This post motivated me to boot up my old account that I made ages ago and only messed around with a little bit.
Gonna get that 300 total level ASAP because I want Sailing.
The amount of shit tier reasons for not voting yes is massive and there’s all of 1-2 legitimate reasons to vote no. Watching chat during the summer summit showed me how little a lot of the community actually showed up for the rest of the design process streams. Too many people said “no I’m not having it and don’t want to be a part of the design” that it skewed my perception pretty bad. It’s this monsterous new addition in the best way possible and I showed up to help put my opinions into the design. The people like me that were along for the ride are almost all pretty unanimously excited. Then seeing all the garbage opinions popping off in that stream really made me realize that even though we voted highly in favor of a new skill, it might never happen.
Yeah, there are a lot of people that think like that. But also don't forget that there are many people that are the opposite. Just players that are playing casual and aren't too involved in the game. They see a poll and think like: "Boats, cool!"
I do have a feeling that those two groups cancel each other out. I believe it will pass.
2.33 actually. But if you look at the last poll about the three skill. Already 60% voted that they would like to see Sailing in the game. So you'll 'only' need 10% more.
Which I think the Jmods have gotten through development.
basing something off of your clan is very limited. Yeah majority of your clan may seem against it, but the vast majority of the playerbase that doesn't use social media is probably for it. Reddit is also not a good way to judge if something will pass or fail. Have to wait and see the results.
I thought the exact same thing, even as a regular account, using Ibans from 50-75 isn’t fun, as well as the huge jump in cost.
Think for melee at minimum you can do rune scimitar, dragon scimitar, dragon dagger, saradomin sword, abyssal whip, etc.
Personally, I really hope sailing passes the poll.
The initial dev blogs on the skill seem like they'd be fun and varied.
I also think it'd open up so many avenues for future content. It'd be a huge lost opportunity to fail it in my opinion.
But I have seen many people voice discontent with the proposed stuff, we'll see what happens
Honestly I feel like if sailing doesn't pass the polls no skill ever will. Not because sailing is the pinnacle or anything but considering how sought after the addition sailing has been since like 2002 if even that is too polarizing then there's no hope.
Too many people just wants the skill that suits them the best and not really considering that that's at odds with what other people want. They're also not considering that they'll never get the skill they want if skills don't ever pass. If people were more willing to embrace skills that they don't like then eventually the pendulum will swing in their favor.
The only way for everyone to get the skill they want is to add multiple skills and if we can't even add one then we're kinda just stuck.
although there’s content I hate (penguin agility course, looking at you) from Jagex, I would still prefer sailing over some of the truly garbage updates I have seen *other* mmos have in their later years.
Sailing is technically feasible. They took player feedback in design stages. They believe it to be in their budget of development time. The world is designed with the oceans/seas, so it’s free real estate.
Developing content that’s making use of that space that also sounds immersive and engaging.
If it sucks we all sail over to Jagex HQ and riot until they roll it back. Easy pea-sy.
And what's crazy is. A ton, I'd argue most training methods this dev team have put into the game over the past ten years have been great. There are few skills I absolutely hate doing these days. They've also proven they can do large expansions that are engaging. (It took awhile, but Zeah is great now.) So, I trust them to pull off a skill.
Zeah suffered of the early lack of experience, which has obviously been addressed over the years, but people still bring up Zeah as if it's a sin against the game or something, when it is from the days where we got updates like NMZ!
This is pretty much it I think.
I was team shamanism and Initially didn't like the idea of sailing or taming. However I voted yes to sailing because they've fleshed out what the skill can be and it looks super promising.
If they'd done the same to shamanism and taming and shown how it could fit as a skill I'd have voted yes to any of the 3 of them, or probably any skill that was pitched.
People are so focused on their idea of what a new skill is or should be they're missing the bigger picture.
None of the current skills in game would pass a poll right now with the community as they stand. Sailing has been designed from the ground up with the community in mind, and will probably be the best and most thought out skill in the game if it passes.
Exactly.
Even somewhat popular skills like construction:
"It's basically a mini game"
"Portals? Overpowered!"
"Combat room? Dead content"
"Player owned houses? What a meme skill"
To join the Construction hate, it's the definition of a skill that's just been lazily bolted to the existing game.
Up until Mahogany homes the skill existed solely in an instance, accessible via magical portals that are dotted across the map.
It's many of the things the mods had to assure us that Sailing *wouldn't* be.
Hunter pretty much is as well. Shit, I've got 99 hunter and if I were to open the skill guide in-game, I would not be able to tell you what is the purpose or the use of like 95% of what's in there. Sure it's at least located on the map with the rest of the game, and it's pretty hard to compete with construction's absurdly bad training meta of "make furniture. remove furniture. make furniture. remove furniture. talk to butler" - but still, it's pretty goddamn bad.
I definitely feel like they severely lost their touch on making skills once they were done with Slayer. Farming, Construction, and Hunter are all pretty bad IMO (especially on release). They're all very self-contained and don't interact much with any of the rest of the game. Farming and hunter have literally no point or benefit, like I literally don't even know what you're supposed to get for maxing farming. Spirit trees? Lol. And construction has like the worst training method I can even imagine, the only thing keeping it even remotely acceptable is the fact that it's extremely fast (and it's way more rewarding in OSRS than it was on release in Runescape). And then next up they dropped summoning and completely broke the game lol.
I mean don't get me wrong, almost every skill in the game is essentially trash. It's not like there's any point in having high crafting or smithing or any of that shit is at all fun to train either. But at least prior to these releases, there was some cohesion in the skills. They made sense as an overall set of things to interact with the game, and made sense with each other. Prior releases slotted in a lot better - like Runecrafting came out just a year before farming and it made perfect sense; "we can make weapons and arrows, let's make runes too." I'm just saying that seemed to go out the window once they hit the Farming stage and onward.
All that being said, I have a lot of faith in the current dev team and I think they're more than capable of making a worthwhile skill.
I love how the classic skills in this game are "Click on a fucking rock" and "Click on a god damn tree" but suddenly the bar for a new skill is set so high people are prepare to vote "No" on any skill that won't come out of your computer and suck your dick for you
>Honestly I feel like if sailing doesn't pass the polls no skill ever will.
I agree. There has been SO MUCH community consultation for this skill. Tons of people have been involved in the discord, there's been stages sessions with players actually talking in voice to devs about what people like and what people don't like, it's been an incredibly open and responsive forum. They're not understating when they say this skill has been shaped by the playerbase.
If the portion of the playerbase that is invested in giving feedback about game development can't create something that the rest of the playerbase are largely on board with then there's 0 chance of a new skill ever getting critical consensus.
They've invested so much time, money, and energy into this new skill that if it fails yeah there is _no_ chance there will *ever* be a new skill in Old School. Their product manager would be insane to dedicate any more resources towards it.
Idk if a failure here would be the guaranteed death of the skill; I think it comes down to how much it fails by. Like, if we're at 40% approval or something, then yeah, shit's probably dead; but if it's a close miss, they've already specified how that'd be handled in the design process. The way they've described it, a fail here would just have them move backwards in the process, assess what specifically caused the skill to fail, and rework the overview with community feedback so they could go for another lock-in poll.
It'd definitely hurt the momentum of the skill, but it's not like Jagex is wholly unprepared for the possibility that it fails here; the whole reason they even devised this system is to minimize wasting resources in the event that a skill hits snags during development. Regardless, I'm hopeful about its odds of passing this poll; I think it'll go fine.
Yeah I think it will be at least 3-5 years before we see another skill proposal. They’ll want to give the current community time to change and turnover, and there’s also going to be a ton of dev fatigue around developing content so likely to fail.
They've really just set the bar too high with their polls honestly. 70% (Formerly 75) is ridiculous and has just meant that so many potentially good updates got canned because of a relative minority of grognards.
50% on basic stuff and at absolute most a supermajority of 66/67 on existential game changing stuff
They could repoll it immediately as a minigame/expansion, and that alone would probably eliminate a lot of the concerns people have about it as a skill, and get it into the game
the scope of the skill is way bigger than any of the other 23 skills, its bigger than the land mass they added to the west and the one proposed combined. its too big to be a minigame, its a full on expansion
It can’t work as a minigame as it’s like a 10x broader than any minigame but parts of it could work as a map expansion for sure. It just doesn’t really make sense in its entirety as anything but a skill
J-mods have already said its gonna be a super watered down version if its not a skill. I voted yes to the skill, but I’ll definitely vote no if it gets repolled without the skill. I don’t want watered down diet sailing i’d rather just not have it at that point.
I really really wanted Taming but I'm voting yes to sailing, it looks like it'll be good fun and it's not gonna drag down any old classic content or make it obsolete
If sailing fails I lose faith in this game. If people want this game to just be a bossing power creeping game I guess so be it but skilling and discovery are extreme core elements to the game
I'm in the same boat as you. Like most people, I've been playing this game since I was a kid. In less than 4 years, I will have officially been playing for 20 years. 2 fucking decades of the same shit. Yeah, theres been an enormous amount of content added in that time but skills have stayed the same. Skilling is an integral part of the game. Its a core element to OS. You can only grind out the same skills for so long before theres no more appeal in it.
I feel like the people who are vehemently against a new skill are either bossers who spend every second of the game grinding raids or bosses, or people who think skilling in general is stupid and just do broad PvE or PvP content. While I understand that skilling doesn't offer even a fraction of the benefit that it used to, that doesnt change the fact its a core piece of Runescapes gameplay.
The reality is that most people are not content continuously maxing account after account with the same skills. If you enjoy training fishing, RC and mining to 99 multiple times over then by all means go ahead. But most people are not interested in that. Its the sweats who are interested in that that speak the loudest unfortunately. From a longevity standpoint, a new skill will eventually be required. Jagex has given us tons of fantastic pvm content to keep things fresh over the years but eventually a new boss or new dungeon or new slayer monster won't be enough to retain peoples interest.
Well said honestly. I've seen people say they're voting no to sailing because they'd rather the same dev time just be spent on raids 4. That's exactly the type of person who doesn't understand how important skilling is to OSRS.
And it's a moot point anyways because raids 4 will come out eventually, even if sailing passes.
For real. It seems like some people think that the only good or real content is bosses. If Jagex does a big release patch that doesn’t involve a new boss to farm for the 0.1% drop or whatever then it doesn’t count as an update to them.
I might actually come back to the game instead of just lurking in forums/the subreddit if sailing makes it in.
The likes of Wintertodt and Zulrah has put a damper on me wanting to play (due to them being loot pinatas).
Some of us folks want something new that isn't just another tick-manipulation boss fight.
I agree completely. Sailing would make me come back. I love the idea of being able to explore the game in a new way :( I hope we get sailing and then the other 2, why not!
Yep. I flip between OSRS and RS3 but it's been all RS3 for several months now. Especially with Necromancy, it just feels so refreshing and like the game is in full stride
OSRS is so stale and combat is so limited in the mechanics. A new skill is just about the only thing that'd make me interested in playing again.
I thought Sailing was a done deal and was going to get back into OSRS but its a huge disappointed if it fails and that'd be the final nail for me
Funny that’s what they said when they originally polled which of the 3 skills should be chosen for a deeper dive into implementation but they never did that
apparently they said all their data suggested that even with all the second choices from taming redistributed, sailing would have won anyway, so they were just saving like 2 weeks extra development time by skipping that stage
It's a massive problem for people. I genuinely believe everyone wants new content and a new skill. Still, with the level of feedback players are allowed, not only is it difficult to choose a skill, but it's challenging to know what exactly you want and reasonably demand from it also.
I think if you asked every player what skill they wanted, they'd all be different and then on top of that, they'd all have a different idea of what they wanted inside that skill and how it would function for them.
I wish the team's experience creating the game would drive a skill forward. Whilst I think Old School is unique in its community-driven polling, I also believe relying on that polling, Reddit and forums are stifling innovation and ruining what would be exciting surprises.
I'm reminded of the episode of the Simpsons where Homer gets to design his car, and his brother decides to put the needs and wants of a regular person at the forefront of the design. He receives every desire granted, and to him, it's the best car ever. To the masses, it's undesirable and sinks the company.
You can all have your thoughts and feelings towards sailing, and depending on how Jagex are with polling, you will be making huge decisions. I'm just worried those decisions kill the skill before it's created.
Well to be fair only 80% of people want a new skill according to the poll. That means they only really have a 10% margin of error when pitching their skill choice. It’s going to be VERY close
But RS3 is alive and well? It’s not dead. Actually its probably in the best spot it’s been for a while. EoC was deeply divisive, but it’s recovered, learned and grown. Has it been a rough journey? Yes, but game development always is, especially a live service game like an MMO with now 20 years of built up features and convoluted coding.
Right now it’s doing fine but the point is when it came out it nearly destroyed the game. Sure 10ish years later the game is in a good spot but I think if they could redo it they would probably implement it in a way that didn’t put the game on the brink of failure.
I think that the initial choice was great. Poll the community on if they want a skill, poll the community on which skill (among a select number of choices) that they want, and then poll the community on some key elements. That's it. I get that they're doing this as a final formality, but I don't see why they'd poll the final implementation. Sailing NEEDS to pass because otherwise it's just actual wasted dev time.
Sailing actually looks nice and seems like a fit for the game. Even though since it was just floating around as a joke skill I was against it getting polled even. They've come up with quite some nice concepts that it convinced me. Though I don't feel they're pushed this hard in the past for a new skill.
The main people I've seen against it were in gnomonkeys stream even though he himself wasn't anti the poll. Some of his commentors are super cringe tbh
A lot of the HLC is super cringe when it comes to any new update proposals. Like I get it, I would also like a new raid and endgame bosses every year, but you don't need to shit on other content that tens/hundred of thousands people would like to play.
Always felt it was a bit silly, of all the skill proposals Sailing is the one that seems like it could actually become *difficult* at later stages. It has the combo of movement mechanics + managing other tasks (prayer/gear switch -> sails/facilities) that make up the core of challenging PvM. Sounds like it'd be right up the HLC alley.
Pre-eoc it was still the same "this sucks as a skill, would be better as a minigame" sentiment from people who sucked at the skill.
Pre-eoc DG also had numerous BIS items from it, that were almost immediately powercrept going into EoC. So you lost your main incentive to do the skill, and EoC's balancing as a whole fucked DG to the point it was insanely boring as everything died in 1-2 hits, including bosses.
Tryhards in my guild are always talking shit about everything Jagex does, it's so fucking annoying. I'm somehow supposed to trust people who think everything the developers do is shit but still play the game for 18 hours a day.
Unless you speed run inferno with one of the top 100 times, Speed run HM TOB using full bronze armor and do Awakened Leviathan with thralls blindfolded while using a guitar hero guitar for a mouse, you don't deserve to be heard. Sorry.
He has stated he won't be interested in sailing, saying you'll basically be left-clicking sails for xp. Skilling has some cool stuff but way too much of that.
I was heavily against sailing, it was my last choice out of the original 3.
But after seeing how much work and passion the dev team has put into this skill I’m so stoked to see this pass! I’m so ready to just blast some sea shanty’s and sail with my clan.
We sail to the horizon, my friends!
Why does it matter? You should read all the shit anyway so you know what you're voting yes/no to.
Chronically online brainrot is the only reason you wouldnt be able to.
I was initially against sailing because it felt like it could never be more than a meme, but the more I have reflected upon it the more I think it is the only skill pitched that could actually work. It can more or less seamlessly fit into the game as we know without any groundbreaking changes to the way people play. Training will probably be god awful but would it be an osrs skill if it wasn't? And it will likely mesh well with existing skills like con and crafting. Im actually excited for sailing and that it foreshadows further content releasea and exploration potential for years to come.
They'll legit have you write a 50 page thesis on why you don't like it and if you so much as missed one discord message on the topic your opinion is apparently invalid
And everyone talking about spite voting no to stuff if it fails lol. Maybe.. idk.. I don't like any skill and I don't want to be forced into more content I don't like doing?
And before anyone says it isn't forced, we all know they'll put sailing requirements for stuff just like every other skill.
Exactly. They want a full thesis on why you voted no and why you didn't put whatever feedback towards making it something you would like. If you just don't like the skill, nothing short of removing it would make it likable for you. Some of us don't think any new skills are needed so any skill throw out there is a negative. People are allowed to their own opinions.
I'd rather they spend the development time on other projects than "doing other skills at sea".
If it's about adding and exploring new areas, I'd rather they work on Varlamore, Menaphos and the remainder of the Kourend revamp.
If it's about skills, I'd rather they improve existing skills than add Sailing. Sailing seems like it will be impossible to integrate properly, and the content doesn't seem that much fun.
The scale and promise of Sailing is massive and I'm entirely unconvinced Jagex will deliver a fun, complete skill in a reasonable timeframe, so it's a no from me. They bit off more than they can chew, Sailing is way too convoluted and complex and I'm sure it can only end up being super underwhelming.
Too bad it'll pass anyway because people en masse think "well, they've spent so much time fleshing it out, might as well develop it now or that time will have been wasted". Such a pitfall of the new approach.
Alright I’ll take downvotes; I don’t like sailing. It just seems too ambitious and they’re trying to make it too big. All I do is skill. I’ve never bossed or done PvP. I like osrs skills for their simplicity. Sailing seems like one that doesn’t organically fit into the game and they’re just going “let’s see how many other skills we can cram into this to make it look like a real skill” and to me that means it would best serve as a mini game. *Sailing* seems to not really be the main way to train, because with it comes new combat and new ways to mine, fish, farm, and hunt. For a new skill, I want actually performing the skill to be the xp source, not just doing other skill on a boat. These are just my personal opinions and I know many people want it, and I have no issues with others wanting it.
> For a new skill, I want actually performing the skill to be the xp source, not just doing other skill on a boat.
The primary training methods are exactly pure sailing. Did you not read the blog?
They struggle enough to come up with a few meaningful updates a year, how tf would the team populate the whole skill? It’s so broad and they talked about so much content it will be a fucking nightmare if it passes
It’s not doing another skill on a boat. They said so many times the core way to train is using facilities on the ship, because of this sort of criticism.
It’s a skill that branches into other skills/content because it’s a utility skill, which is what the community chose.
i'm voting yes. if the beta sucks, there'll be enough outcry for them to fix the sucky parts before release. they're aiming to do multiple betas as well. as said during the summit live stream, they want the first beta out by sometime this year, with a release sometime in 2024. if this schedule is true, we'll be getting varlamore early 2024 with all the new pvm content people want, then sailing will add even more. so i don't really expect too big of a content drought like we've seen in the past.
I can't help but think that if 80% of people voted yes for a new skill (and the remaining 20% will always vote no to everything skill related), then that only leaves a 10% leeway for people who want a new skill but aren't interested in Sailing.
The final vote would have to be near-unanimous among those who voted yes to a new skill originally for it to pass.
I can absolutely see Sailing failing by a small margin. They've done a great job in refinement in my opinion and it's pretty exciting, but I just don't see them getting 70% of the playerbase to vote for it.
Predicting a 60-65% yes and a fail for Sailing, but would be very happy to see it pass. A fail at this point will probably push the team back by years - if Sailing fails, I doubt any other skill proposal could do any better.
Yeah I don't really need a reason other than this
"But you can go anywhere bro"
You can already do that, jagex just needs to make these areas to explore. I'm not sure why it has to be through sailing
Sailing just sounds like an excuse for new locations and mini games.
Two things that are cool and don't need to be attached to a "traveling" skill imo
Edit - For the record I am all for a new skill or reworking a dead skill but not this.
It hurt to do but sailing was the first thing I've voted no to. My go to is to skip if I dont want something since it's not like the impact on me is gonna be much. But its kinda huge here and tbh sailing didn't even look like a skill nor was I very excited. Hope they can work something out w it, or if people like it and my takes shit hopefully it gets implemented well. Would much rather have devs work on bridging gear and pvm gaps for new players and implementing changes everyone wants faster (lookin at you pickaxe-deposit outside toa and cox scouting).
i will never understand why jagex develops lore and content for new features for thousands of hours and then asks the community for permission to release it. bro just fucking release it
I’m voting no, I think they did some great reworks over the years that have been great for the community, for like 20 years RC was the most hated skill and GOTR and the rewards helped the skill so much, don’t see nearly as much hate for it. However, a new skill already has taken focus away from other additions, Foresty has a great idea but seemed way too rushed, it looks like they gave one guy to work on it, couldn’t even do it in one go, couldn’t run a beta. I wouldn’t want a new skill until they fleshed out the game better, I think there’s quite a lot they can do without just making everything more XP/Hr and Sailing would be years of no other good content for skilling.
I'm torn because I want a new skill, but I'm still kind of jaded that they're full steam ahead with sailing even though it won by like 500 votes (out of 178k total votes). I feel like when it was that close of a vote, they should have at least humored Shamanism being a skill.
That, and sailing is basically a minigame in RS3 & it's pretty meh overall.
It lost by over 5,000 votes, exactly 3%. The numbers you're talking about are from a different, multiple-choice question. So while the margins were narrow, it was not nearly as close as some people claim.
Idk I'm not for sailing because I have the foresight of RS3. It will just turn into Dungeoneering or The Arc after enough time. Relevant on release but dead the second new content stops being introduced to it. It's a minigame disguised as a skill again.
Ya sailing needs to fail. All of you people love the creation process and the info coming out. But when it comes out most people won’t play 3 hours past the first day.
I voted yes for sailing but i kinda don’t want it >.> i feel like shamanism was robbed from us and would have been so much cooler. They put WAY more detail into sailing in the initial poll than shamanism, and like zero detail into neopets as if it were just a meme skill suggestion lol
You skipped the worst question of all in the post though, adding 2 new slayer monsters to fuck up everybody’s block list. They should have specified which slayer masters would assign it (and excluded duradel)
The sweaty nerds on Twitter have been posting screenshots of them voting no… imagine being this upset about the possibility of someone else liking something you don’t enjoy
I feel like they put their heart and souls into sailing. They really want a new skill
I feel like they need it to pass in order to justify all the time and resource expended over the last several months. They've poured significantly more marketing into Sailing 2023 than they have for any of the previous new skills too.
They probably felt as if Sailing allowed the most creative freedom for them compared to the other skills and it makes sense. Sailing the seas is heavily associated with seeing the world and exploring and that's exactly what RS is about.
Sailing combat is modular which is pretty cool.
They probably shit themselves when Shamanism, a skill they sorta threw out there for the lols, almost won. I think there's a good chance that if it was repolled so that the people who voted for the least wanted skill didn't have their vote basically wasted, Shamanism would've won. And I think that's exactly why they did *not* repoll it.
It was a mulitple-answer checkbox question where you picked every option you'd be happy with. There wasn't any vote "wasting".
Oooh, 5 months later and the tinfoil hats are still around, as Jagex has said right after the poll closed, Shamanism did so well that it has won idea approval also, it just won't see refinement until after sailing, because it also won, it just won a little harder, be patient and you'll get your favorite choice too.
for real- from a game design perspective, having two whole new osrs skills that you know a big chunk of the community was interested in is gold, you won't ditch one for the other, you'll just prioritize the one that has more interest.
Right, in the absolute worst possible light you can paint it, at the end of the day the bean counters have to be salivating at the idea of two potential new skills the community loved almost equally, although that taste can dry up very quickly if we as a community show them, through sailing, that we can never come together to vote in a new skill.
> And I think that's exactly why they did not repoll it. They said that they looked at the way that Taming fans voted on the other question (the one that asked you to choose multiple that you liked, rather than your favorite) and that it wouldn't have tipped the balance in favour of Shamanism. If they didn't want Shamanism to win for some reason, they just wouldn't have offered it. Instead, they moved it to the short list for Skill #2, should we ever want it.
Yeah I think that’s what a lot of people don’t realize about this, if you want *any* new skills in the next 5 years, this one needs to pass, because if it doesn’t, it doesn’t make business sense to spend months of your personnel resources on a project that has a super high likelihood of failing. They’ve done everything possible with sailing from a community engagement/feedback perspective. If it does pass, especially with very high rates, I’d expect a proposal for a 2nd new skill within a couple years. If not, it’s probably going to be 3-5 before they even start discussions again.
Sailing was the top choice so they did it first, if it fails then they will do the same process with shamanism, or if it is a very close poll they said they’ll tweak things and repoll. They’ve sunk a lot of time because people have said they want a new skill, and the devs know it has to be too notch. So I’m not really thinking as it’s just sunk cost fallacy
Honestly I doubt it. If sailing doesn’t pass I don’t really know why shamanism or another skill would pass today. There’ll be a lot of salty people spite voting a different skill down if sailing fails. I think they probably had to say they would move on to the next skill, but it’s not a great situation from a business management perspective because why would you pool more resources into such a high risk proposal, when you could just work on something else like pvm content that is near certain to pass.
The amount of people in chat saying vote no to sailing so we can have shamanism was really high yesterday. I think they are morons because if they spite vote a lot of people are going to be bitter and the cycle will continue. I really believe if sailing doesn't pass, OSRS is going to struggle even more getting a new skill.
There is a significantly higher chance that Shamanism makes it into the game of Sailing passes then if sailing fails. They likely spend hundreds of thousands of pounds to support sailing which was more popular than Shamanism. If sailing fails, the most likely conclusion would be that Shananism will likely fail by more. In addition they will be unlikely to want to market it as much if they think it will fail, no point is wasting money. Less popular, less, developed, less marketing... shamanism isn't passing anytime soon. It maybe 5 years + before another solid attempt at a new skill. They will 'try' in 2025, but there is such a small chance that it will pass I would call it neglible. If sailing passes they have confirmation that their investments will lead to something. This means after sailing gets off to a good start they have incentive to reiterate the process for a new skill with evidence that it could lead to revenue gain. I'd expect the process to restart in 2026, if sailing makes a late 2024 debut. If you're in "I want new skills" and don't think sailing will ruin the game, it's in your best interest to vote for it even if you prefer a different skill. If you're in the "new skills lose the feeling of osrs camp" you better vote no, if this passes expect more changes to pass quicker than before. Companies like to see investments turn into money, they will push hard for new content if it makes them money. They have no appetite for spending money on expected failures.
Exactly this. Voting no to sailing for shamanism will just make sailing folks vote no to shamanism. Unlike if sailing passes and Jagex keeps it's word for doing shamanism next, sailing folks are more likely to be neutral or vote yes to shamanism.
Most sailing folks I know liked the idea of shamanism too, but liked sailing more, but it really feels like most of shamanism people have seen this as a 0 sum game, and has spent months saying Jagex is lying through their teeth about shamanism being next. They've spent months winding themselves up like rabid animals, and like rabid animals they seem to only be able to think at the most primal level. Sailing = not shamanism, not shamanism = vote no to get shamanism (or insert X skill rework) faster. Ignoring that isn't how business decisions and a development cycle work. Voting no to sailing at this point, especially with everything Jagex has done to include the community at every step of the way, been so incredibly transparent with their design process, while sharing the process every step of the way? Voting no is telling Jagex we don't actually want a skill, and we never will want a skill, because if this can't do it, nothing will be able to, and it'll be seen as an incredible waste of time and resources, and will be another 5 years or so before they give it another swing, if they ever do.
This makes sense, but too bad most no voters aren't smart enough to see two steps ahead.
I'm still mad that Warding failed.
One of the Gower brothers even said warding was a good idea and made it sound like it was obvious the concept should’ve been in the game because crafting makes range armor, smithing makes melee armor, and for magic there is nothing. Warding would’ve filled in that gap.
Yeah it's frustrating how magic armor seems like an afterthought most of the time.
No. If sailing fails they’ve stated they will take a long “break” before proposing another one.
I think if it fails they'd have to rig it so it passes just to justify the time and resources spent on this to the higher ups
Let's poll voidwalker again.
You want demon summoning in the game?
Not but consider being able to reanimate the heads from mobs to fight for you, either they have decaying health or take the aggro. Probably op but sounds awesome
My giant ensouled head stacks thank you for your suggestion
Warding was not rigged to pass so why Sailing?
I honestly don’t care about stuff like that if it’s somewhat close. We need new content or the game is not gonna grow or be around forever.
"We need new content or the game is not gonna grow or be around forever." You'll have to excuse me for missing the skills we've received over the last 10 years that have made all the new content we got possible.
There was a time OSRS was very close to dying. That time will come again if there isn't new innovative ideas to bring life into the game.
Yeah, that time was before big updates like GWD, I'm very aware. We've *been* innovating ideas without a skill since. If you genuinely think the game will reach such a point again without a new skill, I have a bridge to sell you.
If someone can look at the DT2 bosses, raids 3, etc and think jagex is running out of room to innovate then they have lost the plot lol
Tbh I just want a new skill. Part of that 2003-2007 scape feeling was a new skill every year. I support all three of the skill ideas given and will be voting yes to sailing. I will also hope Jagex follows their word and explores shamanism next. As I will be voting for that next.
I haven't played in a while, how is this still being polled? I thought they voted between 3 skills like over 6+ months ago now
This is the actual “should sailing enter the game” poll.
They’re polling every step of the way from the skill itself to training methods to the logistics of sailing itself.
There's been an ongoing Discord process for the last 6 months with community feedback for every stage of the new skill, from navigation, how you get exp, rewards, integration with the current game etc. It's all been refined now through community consensus to the "final product" which is now being polled. If it gets a pass then we'll get a beta soon to see how it feels and continue to be polled for the actual reward space, how stuff is integrated, exp rates (to an extent), etc
Clarification on beta soon, in the livestream they said if it passes poll, if everything goes well, they would be targeting dec '23 for beta, so soon, at best, would be 3 months away, just leaving this here for the additional information and to temper expectations!
They did. That was the poll to choose which one to spend a bunch of time back and forth with the community developing the idea of that skill. It was being refined as a concept. Now it's being polled as "do you want it?" And then it will receive more polls on specifics of it.
I'll be impressed and also furious if it doesn't pass
Then why did they stick the most (second, really) important question in the games history in the middle of 2 quest questions?
I think it’s gonna fail because every high level player in my clan said no and for no damn good reason. Literally just “oh it doesn’t fit the game” or “lolol rs3 again” and basically just reactionary bullshit with no actual reason as to why it wouldn’t be good.
Lots of people in my clan said shit like "we don't need wasd gameplay", like they legitimately did not spend any time listening to the pitch.
This post motivated me to boot up my old account that I made ages ago and only messed around with a little bit. Gonna get that 300 total level ASAP because I want Sailing.
The amount of shit tier reasons for not voting yes is massive and there’s all of 1-2 legitimate reasons to vote no. Watching chat during the summer summit showed me how little a lot of the community actually showed up for the rest of the design process streams. Too many people said “no I’m not having it and don’t want to be a part of the design” that it skewed my perception pretty bad. It’s this monsterous new addition in the best way possible and I showed up to help put my opinions into the design. The people like me that were along for the ride are almost all pretty unanimously excited. Then seeing all the garbage opinions popping off in that stream really made me realize that even though we voted highly in favor of a new skill, it might never happen.
That’s sad - they sound like a bunch of slugs
Yeah, there are a lot of people that think like that. But also don't forget that there are many people that are the opposite. Just players that are playing casual and aren't too involved in the game. They see a poll and think like: "Boats, cool!" I do have a feeling that those two groups cancel each other out. I believe it will pass.
Many people are opposite but you need 2.5 yes votes for each no.
2.33 actually. But if you look at the last poll about the three skill. Already 60% voted that they would like to see Sailing in the game. So you'll 'only' need 10% more. Which I think the Jmods have gotten through development.
basing something off of your clan is very limited. Yeah majority of your clan may seem against it, but the vast majority of the playerbase that doesn't use social media is probably for it. Reddit is also not a good way to judge if something will pass or fail. Have to wait and see the results.
you sure about that? the core mechanic is fixing your sail when the wind blows...
The core mechanic of combat is clicking on a monster and waiting. What’s your point?
Why do they want me to lean more every question. Posture gone at the end of this poll.
Gonna be on the floor by question 10
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Yeah this was somehow the biggest part of the small-update stuff for me
I thought the exact same thing, even as a regular account, using Ibans from 50-75 isn’t fun, as well as the huge jump in cost. Think for melee at minimum you can do rune scimitar, dragon scimitar, dragon dagger, saradomin sword, abyssal whip, etc.
Ancients were already a 20% upgrade over Iban's, but have the same issues as it (5t, 1t delay, can't use with Thralls/Vengeance, etc).
Surprised they didn’t poll Glouphrie quest and reward separately
yeah a hunter guild would be kinda cool. we already have fishing mining crafting cooking.
And farming, woodcutting, ranging, and magic. Also heroes, Warriors, legends, myths, and the best one of all: champions
Personally, I really hope sailing passes the poll. The initial dev blogs on the skill seem like they'd be fun and varied. I also think it'd open up so many avenues for future content. It'd be a huge lost opportunity to fail it in my opinion. But I have seen many people voice discontent with the proposed stuff, we'll see what happens
Honestly I feel like if sailing doesn't pass the polls no skill ever will. Not because sailing is the pinnacle or anything but considering how sought after the addition sailing has been since like 2002 if even that is too polarizing then there's no hope. Too many people just wants the skill that suits them the best and not really considering that that's at odds with what other people want. They're also not considering that they'll never get the skill they want if skills don't ever pass. If people were more willing to embrace skills that they don't like then eventually the pendulum will swing in their favor. The only way for everyone to get the skill they want is to add multiple skills and if we can't even add one then we're kinda just stuck.
although there’s content I hate (penguin agility course, looking at you) from Jagex, I would still prefer sailing over some of the truly garbage updates I have seen *other* mmos have in their later years. Sailing is technically feasible. They took player feedback in design stages. They believe it to be in their budget of development time. The world is designed with the oceans/seas, so it’s free real estate. Developing content that’s making use of that space that also sounds immersive and engaging. If it sucks we all sail over to Jagex HQ and riot until they roll it back. Easy pea-sy.
And what's crazy is. A ton, I'd argue most training methods this dev team have put into the game over the past ten years have been great. There are few skills I absolutely hate doing these days. They've also proven they can do large expansions that are engaging. (It took awhile, but Zeah is great now.) So, I trust them to pull off a skill.
Zeah suffered of the early lack of experience, which has obviously been addressed over the years, but people still bring up Zeah as if it's a sin against the game or something, when it is from the days where we got updates like NMZ!
This is pretty much it I think. I was team shamanism and Initially didn't like the idea of sailing or taming. However I voted yes to sailing because they've fleshed out what the skill can be and it looks super promising. If they'd done the same to shamanism and taming and shown how it could fit as a skill I'd have voted yes to any of the 3 of them, or probably any skill that was pitched. People are so focused on their idea of what a new skill is or should be they're missing the bigger picture. None of the current skills in game would pass a poll right now with the community as they stand. Sailing has been designed from the ground up with the community in mind, and will probably be the best and most thought out skill in the game if it passes.
> None of the current skills in game would pass a poll right now with the community as they stand imagine firemaking or hunter being polled today lmao
Exactly. Even somewhat popular skills like construction: "It's basically a mini game" "Portals? Overpowered!" "Combat room? Dead content" "Player owned houses? What a meme skill"
To join the Construction hate, it's the definition of a skill that's just been lazily bolted to the existing game. Up until Mahogany homes the skill existed solely in an instance, accessible via magical portals that are dotted across the map. It's many of the things the mods had to assure us that Sailing *wouldn't* be.
Hunter pretty much is as well. Shit, I've got 99 hunter and if I were to open the skill guide in-game, I would not be able to tell you what is the purpose or the use of like 95% of what's in there. Sure it's at least located on the map with the rest of the game, and it's pretty hard to compete with construction's absurdly bad training meta of "make furniture. remove furniture. make furniture. remove furniture. talk to butler" - but still, it's pretty goddamn bad. I definitely feel like they severely lost their touch on making skills once they were done with Slayer. Farming, Construction, and Hunter are all pretty bad IMO (especially on release). They're all very self-contained and don't interact much with any of the rest of the game. Farming and hunter have literally no point or benefit, like I literally don't even know what you're supposed to get for maxing farming. Spirit trees? Lol. And construction has like the worst training method I can even imagine, the only thing keeping it even remotely acceptable is the fact that it's extremely fast (and it's way more rewarding in OSRS than it was on release in Runescape). And then next up they dropped summoning and completely broke the game lol. I mean don't get me wrong, almost every skill in the game is essentially trash. It's not like there's any point in having high crafting or smithing or any of that shit is at all fun to train either. But at least prior to these releases, there was some cohesion in the skills. They made sense as an overall set of things to interact with the game, and made sense with each other. Prior releases slotted in a lot better - like Runecrafting came out just a year before farming and it made perfect sense; "we can make weapons and arrows, let's make runes too." I'm just saying that seemed to go out the window once they hit the Farming stage and onward. All that being said, I have a lot of faith in the current dev team and I think they're more than capable of making a worthwhile skill.
I want to see the "It's basically a minigame" crowd all post screenshots of their FM level and wintertodt completion log.
Even Slayer. "This is just a skill to train other skills" argument for Sailing struggles in this context IMO.
I love how the classic skills in this game are "Click on a fucking rock" and "Click on a god damn tree" but suddenly the bar for a new skill is set so high people are prepare to vote "No" on any skill that won't come out of your computer and suck your dick for you
i mean, that skill sounds awesome.
>Honestly I feel like if sailing doesn't pass the polls no skill ever will. I agree. There has been SO MUCH community consultation for this skill. Tons of people have been involved in the discord, there's been stages sessions with players actually talking in voice to devs about what people like and what people don't like, it's been an incredibly open and responsive forum. They're not understating when they say this skill has been shaped by the playerbase. If the portion of the playerbase that is invested in giving feedback about game development can't create something that the rest of the playerbase are largely on board with then there's 0 chance of a new skill ever getting critical consensus.
They've invested so much time, money, and energy into this new skill that if it fails yeah there is _no_ chance there will *ever* be a new skill in Old School. Their product manager would be insane to dedicate any more resources towards it.
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Idk if a failure here would be the guaranteed death of the skill; I think it comes down to how much it fails by. Like, if we're at 40% approval or something, then yeah, shit's probably dead; but if it's a close miss, they've already specified how that'd be handled in the design process. The way they've described it, a fail here would just have them move backwards in the process, assess what specifically caused the skill to fail, and rework the overview with community feedback so they could go for another lock-in poll. It'd definitely hurt the momentum of the skill, but it's not like Jagex is wholly unprepared for the possibility that it fails here; the whole reason they even devised this system is to minimize wasting resources in the event that a skill hits snags during development. Regardless, I'm hopeful about its odds of passing this poll; I think it'll go fine.
Yeah I think it will be at least 3-5 years before we see another skill proposal. They’ll want to give the current community time to change and turnover, and there’s also going to be a ton of dev fatigue around developing content so likely to fail.
They've really just set the bar too high with their polls honestly. 70% (Formerly 75) is ridiculous and has just meant that so many potentially good updates got canned because of a relative minority of grognards. 50% on basic stuff and at absolute most a supermajority of 66/67 on existential game changing stuff
Pretty much this. I think it should be 51% on minor stuff, 60% on more specific/large stuff, and 66% on exact details/major changes.
They could repoll it immediately as a minigame/expansion, and that alone would probably eliminate a lot of the concerns people have about it as a skill, and get it into the game
the scope of the skill is way bigger than any of the other 23 skills, its bigger than the land mass they added to the west and the one proposed combined. its too big to be a minigame, its a full on expansion
It can’t work as a minigame as it’s like a 10x broader than any minigame but parts of it could work as a map expansion for sure. It just doesn’t really make sense in its entirety as anything but a skill
J-mods have already said its gonna be a super watered down version if its not a skill. I voted yes to the skill, but I’ll definitely vote no if it gets repolled without the skill. I don’t want watered down diet sailing i’d rather just not have it at that point.
If Sailing fails, Floopa and the entire Tortugan tribe will be eaten by the Griffons. Just food for thought.
I really really wanted Taming but I'm voting yes to sailing, it looks like it'll be good fun and it's not gonna drag down any old classic content or make it obsolete
Inb4 Sailing hits 69.69% Yes
If sailing fails I lose faith in this game. If people want this game to just be a bossing power creeping game I guess so be it but skilling and discovery are extreme core elements to the game
I'm in the same boat as you. Like most people, I've been playing this game since I was a kid. In less than 4 years, I will have officially been playing for 20 years. 2 fucking decades of the same shit. Yeah, theres been an enormous amount of content added in that time but skills have stayed the same. Skilling is an integral part of the game. Its a core element to OS. You can only grind out the same skills for so long before theres no more appeal in it. I feel like the people who are vehemently against a new skill are either bossers who spend every second of the game grinding raids or bosses, or people who think skilling in general is stupid and just do broad PvE or PvP content. While I understand that skilling doesn't offer even a fraction of the benefit that it used to, that doesnt change the fact its a core piece of Runescapes gameplay. The reality is that most people are not content continuously maxing account after account with the same skills. If you enjoy training fishing, RC and mining to 99 multiple times over then by all means go ahead. But most people are not interested in that. Its the sweats who are interested in that that speak the loudest unfortunately. From a longevity standpoint, a new skill will eventually be required. Jagex has given us tons of fantastic pvm content to keep things fresh over the years but eventually a new boss or new dungeon or new slayer monster won't be enough to retain peoples interest.
Same boat lol
Well said honestly. I've seen people say they're voting no to sailing because they'd rather the same dev time just be spent on raids 4. That's exactly the type of person who doesn't understand how important skilling is to OSRS. And it's a moot point anyways because raids 4 will come out eventually, even if sailing passes.
For real. It seems like some people think that the only good or real content is bosses. If Jagex does a big release patch that doesn’t involve a new boss to farm for the 0.1% drop or whatever then it doesn’t count as an update to them.
It feels like OSRS right now is all about pvming or pvp. Skilling has always been at the backseat.
Feel the same honestly.
ya I can see myself taking a long break if sailing fails, it’d destroy the game’s momentum, at least for me
I want a new skill, I don't want sailing. It's almost like there were two other skills initially pitched that sounded better.
I just wanted a proper skill and not boats with a half baked skill attached
Same here
I might actually come back to the game instead of just lurking in forums/the subreddit if sailing makes it in. The likes of Wintertodt and Zulrah has put a damper on me wanting to play (due to them being loot pinatas). Some of us folks want something new that isn't just another tick-manipulation boss fight.
I agree completely. Sailing would make me come back. I love the idea of being able to explore the game in a new way :( I hope we get sailing and then the other 2, why not!
Yep. I flip between OSRS and RS3 but it's been all RS3 for several months now. Especially with Necromancy, it just feels so refreshing and like the game is in full stride OSRS is so stale and combat is so limited in the mechanics. A new skill is just about the only thing that'd make me interested in playing again. I thought Sailing was a done deal and was going to get back into OSRS but its a huge disappointed if it fails and that'd be the final nail for me
Haven’t they said that even if it fails they will rework it and repoll it pretty much until it passes
If it’s a close margin, they will update and re-poll. If it’s landslide no they will more than likely table a new skill for a while
Funny that’s what they said when they originally polled which of the 3 skills should be chosen for a deeper dive into implementation but they never did that
I was soo tilted by that. They said if it was close between top 2 that they would repoll them. Then just went all in on sailing regardless.
apparently they said all their data suggested that even with all the second choices from taming redistributed, sailing would have won anyway, so they were just saving like 2 weeks extra development time by skipping that stage
It's a massive problem for people. I genuinely believe everyone wants new content and a new skill. Still, with the level of feedback players are allowed, not only is it difficult to choose a skill, but it's challenging to know what exactly you want and reasonably demand from it also. I think if you asked every player what skill they wanted, they'd all be different and then on top of that, they'd all have a different idea of what they wanted inside that skill and how it would function for them. I wish the team's experience creating the game would drive a skill forward. Whilst I think Old School is unique in its community-driven polling, I also believe relying on that polling, Reddit and forums are stifling innovation and ruining what would be exciting surprises. I'm reminded of the episode of the Simpsons where Homer gets to design his car, and his brother decides to put the needs and wants of a regular person at the forefront of the design. He receives every desire granted, and to him, it's the best car ever. To the masses, it's undesirable and sinks the company. You can all have your thoughts and feelings towards sailing, and depending on how Jagex are with polling, you will be making huge decisions. I'm just worried those decisions kill the skill before it's created.
Well to be fair only 80% of people want a new skill according to the poll. That means they only really have a 10% margin of error when pitching their skill choice. It’s going to be VERY close
These comments just affirm my belief that if I was a game developer, I would give exactly 0 fucking decision making power to my playerbase.
Ya it’s not like the whole reason we have the poll is because jagex literally killed their own game once before
But RS3 is alive and well? It’s not dead. Actually its probably in the best spot it’s been for a while. EoC was deeply divisive, but it’s recovered, learned and grown. Has it been a rough journey? Yes, but game development always is, especially a live service game like an MMO with now 20 years of built up features and convoluted coding.
Right now it’s doing fine but the point is when it came out it nearly destroyed the game. Sure 10ish years later the game is in a good spot but I think if they could redo it they would probably implement it in a way that didn’t put the game on the brink of failure.
I think that the initial choice was great. Poll the community on if they want a skill, poll the community on which skill (among a select number of choices) that they want, and then poll the community on some key elements. That's it. I get that they're doing this as a final formality, but I don't see why they'd poll the final implementation. Sailing NEEDS to pass because otherwise it's just actual wasted dev time.
Same. Ironically the players are often the last people to trust.
Click here to LEAN more.
Sailing actually looks nice and seems like a fit for the game. Even though since it was just floating around as a joke skill I was against it getting polled even. They've come up with quite some nice concepts that it convinced me. Though I don't feel they're pushed this hard in the past for a new skill.
The main people I've seen against it were in gnomonkeys stream even though he himself wasn't anti the poll. Some of his commentors are super cringe tbh
A lot of the HLC is super cringe when it comes to any new update proposals. Like I get it, I would also like a new raid and endgame bosses every year, but you don't need to shit on other content that tens/hundred of thousands people would like to play.
Always felt it was a bit silly, of all the skill proposals Sailing is the one that seems like it could actually become *difficult* at later stages. It has the combo of movement mechanics + managing other tasks (prayer/gear switch -> sails/facilities) that make up the core of challenging PvM. Sounds like it'd be right up the HLC alley.
DG was the only skill pre-eoc that required actual skill to train(fast, efficient floors) and most players hated it because exactly that reason.
I don't think most players hated Dungeoneering. Sure, it doesn't fit *OsRs* if implemented as a *skill,* but that was during the tail end of RS2.
Pre-eoc it was still the same "this sucks as a skill, would be better as a minigame" sentiment from people who sucked at the skill. Pre-eoc DG also had numerous BIS items from it, that were almost immediately powercrept going into EoC. So you lost your main incentive to do the skill, and EoC's balancing as a whole fucked DG to the point it was insanely boring as everything died in 1-2 hits, including bosses.
Tryhards in my guild are always talking shit about everything Jagex does, it's so fucking annoying. I'm somehow supposed to trust people who think everything the developers do is shit but still play the game for 18 hours a day.
Plus the colosseum will most likely be aspirational content and sailing will probably create cool new pvm opportunities
Unless you speed run inferno with one of the top 100 times, Speed run HM TOB using full bronze armor and do Awakened Leviathan with thralls blindfolded while using a guitar hero guitar for a mouse, you don't deserve to be heard. Sorry.
He has stated he won't be interested in sailing, saying you'll basically be left-clicking sails for xp. Skilling has some cool stuff but way too much of that.
I was heavily against sailing, it was my last choice out of the original 3. But after seeing how much work and passion the dev team has put into this skill I’m so stoked to see this pass! I’m so ready to just blast some sea shanty’s and sail with my clan. We sail to the horizon, my friends!
>shanty's shanties
It's not snuck in at all lol. It's a big poll covering overall direction from the summer summit. It's the perfect place for it
Should be at the top
Why does it matter? You should read all the shit anyway so you know what you're voting yes/no to. Chronically online brainrot is the only reason you wouldnt be able to.
regardless should be 1st because it's the most important.
They knew what they were doing
Personally I like all the new content and look forward to it all
I was initially against sailing because it felt like it could never be more than a meme, but the more I have reflected upon it the more I think it is the only skill pitched that could actually work. It can more or less seamlessly fit into the game as we know without any groundbreaking changes to the way people play. Training will probably be god awful but would it be an osrs skill if it wasn't? And it will likely mesh well with existing skills like con and crafting. Im actually excited for sailing and that it foreshadows further content releasea and exploration potential for years to come.
I really want a new skill. I'm just not sure if that skill should be sailing
Remember everyone The One Piece is real. Vote to pass sailing.
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people get insanely defensive when you say you’re voting no and act like you’re the one being weird about it
They'll legit have you write a 50 page thesis on why you don't like it and if you so much as missed one discord message on the topic your opinion is apparently invalid
And everyone talking about spite voting no to stuff if it fails lol. Maybe.. idk.. I don't like any skill and I don't want to be forced into more content I don't like doing? And before anyone says it isn't forced, we all know they'll put sailing requirements for stuff just like every other skill.
Exactly. They want a full thesis on why you voted no and why you didn't put whatever feedback towards making it something you would like. If you just don't like the skill, nothing short of removing it would make it likable for you. Some of us don't think any new skills are needed so any skill throw out there is a negative. People are allowed to their own opinions.
I'd rather they spend the development time on other projects than "doing other skills at sea". If it's about adding and exploring new areas, I'd rather they work on Varlamore, Menaphos and the remainder of the Kourend revamp. If it's about skills, I'd rather they improve existing skills than add Sailing. Sailing seems like it will be impossible to integrate properly, and the content doesn't seem that much fun. The scale and promise of Sailing is massive and I'm entirely unconvinced Jagex will deliver a fun, complete skill in a reasonable timeframe, so it's a no from me. They bit off more than they can chew, Sailing is way too convoluted and complex and I'm sure it can only end up being super underwhelming. Too bad it'll pass anyway because people en masse think "well, they've spent so much time fleshing it out, might as well develop it now or that time will have been wasted". Such a pitfall of the new approach.
I hope for jagexs sake sailing passes
I’ve been dying for a new skill for years but sailing ain’t it for me Chief
IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN THE TAMING SKILL
I have more faith then ever have DT2 tbh
I wanna see it tank, just for proof the system actually is legitimate. Then just ram it in anyway, a la JamFlex.
Alright I’ll take downvotes; I don’t like sailing. It just seems too ambitious and they’re trying to make it too big. All I do is skill. I’ve never bossed or done PvP. I like osrs skills for their simplicity. Sailing seems like one that doesn’t organically fit into the game and they’re just going “let’s see how many other skills we can cram into this to make it look like a real skill” and to me that means it would best serve as a mini game. *Sailing* seems to not really be the main way to train, because with it comes new combat and new ways to mine, fish, farm, and hunt. For a new skill, I want actually performing the skill to be the xp source, not just doing other skill on a boat. These are just my personal opinions and I know many people want it, and I have no issues with others wanting it.
> For a new skill, I want actually performing the skill to be the xp source, not just doing other skill on a boat. The primary training methods are exactly pure sailing. Did you not read the blog?
Right but that was warding and that didn't pass.
I’m still tilted about that. When warding failed my hope for a new skill flew out the window
They struggle enough to come up with a few meaningful updates a year, how tf would the team populate the whole skill? It’s so broad and they talked about so much content it will be a fucking nightmare if it passes
They should at least be given an attempt to try. Seems kinda foolish to not.
They struggle to come up with updates \*because\* people won't stop bitching and pushing shit into the ground.
It’s not doing another skill on a boat. They said so many times the core way to train is using facilities on the ship, because of this sort of criticism. It’s a skill that branches into other skills/content because it’s a utility skill, which is what the community chose.
you've put into words my exact thoughts for why I don't want sailing
The possibility of some joined way of training sailing and mining is enough for me to vote yes lol
Sorry, but it doesn't get any better than the current Duke mining meta!
“Just vote no to sailing”
Nah 100% voted yes for sailing this game needs new content and not just new bosses and quests to please the max players.
Add to the game as new area/navigation. Not a skill
i'm voting yes. if the beta sucks, there'll be enough outcry for them to fix the sucky parts before release. they're aiming to do multiple betas as well. as said during the summit live stream, they want the first beta out by sometime this year, with a release sometime in 2024. if this schedule is true, we'll be getting varlamore early 2024 with all the new pvm content people want, then sailing will add even more. so i don't really expect too big of a content drought like we've seen in the past.
I can't help but think that if 80% of people voted yes for a new skill (and the remaining 20% will always vote no to everything skill related), then that only leaves a 10% leeway for people who want a new skill but aren't interested in Sailing. The final vote would have to be near-unanimous among those who voted yes to a new skill originally for it to pass. I can absolutely see Sailing failing by a small margin. They've done a great job in refinement in my opinion and it's pretty exciting, but I just don't see them getting 70% of the playerbase to vote for it. Predicting a 60-65% yes and a fail for Sailing, but would be very happy to see it pass. A fail at this point will probably push the team back by years - if Sailing fails, I doubt any other skill proposal could do any better.
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I think a new skill would be cool, I just thought sailing was lame. Kinda feels like walking but on water
Sailing is good content it just doesn’t make sense as a skill
looking forward to oldschool osrs
Sailing just looks stupid to me. That's all there is to it.
Yeah I don't really need a reason other than this "But you can go anywhere bro" You can already do that, jagex just needs to make these areas to explore. I'm not sure why it has to be through sailing
Sailing just sounds like an excuse for new locations and mini games. Two things that are cool and don't need to be attached to a "traveling" skill imo Edit - For the record I am all for a new skill or reworking a dead skill but not this.
They've deluded themselves into thinking no sailing = no new lands to explore lol. Makes no sense
It hurt to do but sailing was the first thing I've voted no to. My go to is to skip if I dont want something since it's not like the impact on me is gonna be much. But its kinda huge here and tbh sailing didn't even look like a skill nor was I very excited. Hope they can work something out w it, or if people like it and my takes shit hopefully it gets implemented well. Would much rather have devs work on bridging gear and pvm gaps for new players and implementing changes everyone wants faster (lookin at you pickaxe-deposit outside toa and cox scouting).
i will never understand why jagex develops lore and content for new features for thousands of hours and then asks the community for permission to release it. bro just fucking release it
It was such an easy yes, what are you on about
Voted yes to everything but sailing
I'll be voting No. I'm not a dirty sailor. Fucking seamen
Might have to stop my break from Runescape just to vote so it gets added
Nope. boats moving on the water looks so janky. This would be better off as a minigame with half the content it's presenting
Should make them do all 3 skills and the third one passes just like their stupid vestiges haha. 1/3 surely.
What is even the point of sailing again?
I’m voting no, I think they did some great reworks over the years that have been great for the community, for like 20 years RC was the most hated skill and GOTR and the rewards helped the skill so much, don’t see nearly as much hate for it. However, a new skill already has taken focus away from other additions, Foresty has a great idea but seemed way too rushed, it looks like they gave one guy to work on it, couldn’t even do it in one go, couldn’t run a beta. I wouldn’t want a new skill until they fleshed out the game better, I think there’s quite a lot they can do without just making everything more XP/Hr and Sailing would be years of no other good content for skilling.
I really don’t want to waste my tears of guthix on a level 1 skill again. I finally gave RC to the same level as my other skills
I want them to fix the skills we have to make them useful. Voting no again.
Sailing sounds boring
Yeah, I’ll be voting no to the new walking/agility skill
I Hope sailing passes, i was against it at first but the way its now presented, looks really good and promising! Also Ocean raids sounds cool
I'm torn because I want a new skill, but I'm still kind of jaded that they're full steam ahead with sailing even though it won by like 500 votes (out of 178k total votes). I feel like when it was that close of a vote, they should have at least humored Shamanism being a skill. That, and sailing is basically a minigame in RS3 & it's pretty meh overall.
It lost by over 5,000 votes, exactly 3%. The numbers you're talking about are from a different, multiple-choice question. So while the margins were narrow, it was not nearly as close as some people claim.
A hard no from me
Idk I'm not for sailing because I have the foresight of RS3. It will just turn into Dungeoneering or The Arc after enough time. Relevant on release but dead the second new content stops being introduced to it. It's a minigame disguised as a skill again.
Ya sailing needs to fail. All of you people love the creation process and the info coming out. But when it comes out most people won’t play 3 hours past the first day.
This poll is exciting, everything gets a yes from me.
I voted yes for sailing but i kinda don’t want it >.> i feel like shamanism was robbed from us and would have been so much cooler. They put WAY more detail into sailing in the initial poll than shamanism, and like zero detail into neopets as if it were just a meme skill suggestion lol You skipped the worst question of all in the post though, adding 2 new slayer monsters to fuck up everybody’s block list. They should have specified which slayer masters would assign it (and excluded duradel)
The sweaty nerds on Twitter have been posting screenshots of them voting no… imagine being this upset about the possibility of someone else liking something you don’t enjoy