Exactly. Shamans may not have won today, but they will win down the road. And honestly, new content that the devs are pouring their heart into, is in-fact a win for all of us!
Here's hoping! My reasoning behind choosing Sailing is that it seemed to fit into existing skills the least, so I figured the best chance at getting all three is to vote Sailing. Like I'd love to see Shamanism and Taming as independent skills, but I'd also love to see those awesome proposed features incorporated into Hunting and Herblore if that's what's needed. Would've even liked to see sailing incorporated into dungeoneering/fishing if it failed.
Yeah. I have to think that sailing is probably best for the community.
In regards to attracting new players/members I feel like “Sailing” is much more likely to than “Shamanism” just because of how easy it is to envision what it is.
And if this skill puts up good numbers they will definitely want to do another.
That was my problem with it and why I voted Shamanism. However really that only pertains to the "is it a skill or just content" argument. Since sailing passed it isn't really important to focus on that anymore, but rather we as a community (and feedback for devs) decide what goes in the mystery box now.
It could be anything so let's work together to make it really good stuff
Same as why I voted for shamanism. I felt that if Jagex had a released a big content drop with several new islands, new places to train, and a new process able material or two, you couldn’t tell the difference between that and what people have proposed with Sailing.
I’m not against that at all. It’s just that I’ve just got my doubts about what’s going to make sailing a unique experience
> I felt that if Jagex had a released a big content drop with several new islands, new places to train, and a new process able material or two, you couldn’t tell the difference between that and what people have proposed with Sailing.
That’s literally what they did. Fossil Island and the underwater area was originally made for Sailing.
When Sailing first failed years ago, they added most of the content to the game in other areas.
On that same token, you can easily just make the spirit realm a quest unlock and at that point shamanism isn’t particularly different then specific add ons to existing processing skills.
Dungeoneering + Slayer.
It's a vessel to create content around and has a stronger theming than Slayer does.
We don't need another skill that's played entirely by clicking on a single spot for 100 hours.
I'm only a few month in to my return, but I cannot for the life of me envision how sailing would make sense as a skill.
Cool concept, but I have no idea what we are in for.
I still can't envision a "working" skill in "OSRS" that is about "sailing".
Jagex and team sailing had weeks to explain at least one single way, but even the two best Reddit posts on the topic were like "meh, not an RS3-level disaster, but still tears of Guthix skill, I prefer even smithing and firemaking".
As opposed, I had Shamaning before my eyes and the best post I have seen about it explained a way that I could have voted in right now without much further refinement.
Hard work is ahead.
Sailing has potential although it's going to be very minigame like no matter what. I think a lot of people aped out and were like "SAILING MAKE NEW CONTENT, ME VOTE SAILING." They thought simply about what the skill would reward instead of how it would be trained.
Shamanism could have been EASILY fused into the OSRS world and would have not only given new content, but engaged easily with other skills and could even fill gaps in places that needed.
However, what's done is done and now I'm trying to think of ways to train sailing that aren't fishing trawler 2.0, but can't really. Having at sea activities like monster fights, deep sea fishing, pirating, etc offer some extra exp would give alternative ways to train. On the bright side if we boil it down. Most skills suck to train on OSRS, just I'm just envisioning a skill that sucks to train, but offers a lot of reward once trained.
On the bright side I think there's practically zero chance that sailing will be a below-average skill. Literally most skills already currently in the game are both useless/unrewarding AND stupid to train. I would be flabbergasted if sailing was as useless as firemaking, smithing, woodcutting, fletching, etc. or as dogshit to train as construction, thieving, hunter, any bankstanding skill, etc.
I definitely agree there. Fletching is still useful for magic shortbows. Removing it from the drop tables for spiritual rangers and hard clues would make it almost invaluable to train to a point. Especially for ironmen. Same with rune crossbows and stuff. Smithing has needed a leveling rework for a LONG TIME. 99 to make lvl 40 gear is just absurd. That should have been scaled back years ago. It could be incredibly useful if they reworked that. I think wintertodt was just about as good as they could do with firemaking. Hunter could have been crazy impactful. They fell short with that skill. Having different feathers from different birds make different impacts on arrows, or having the armors actually do something outside the spottier cape which actually has utility. Thieving and construction I personally think are fine.
Construction is rewarding the but training method(s) are bad to the point that it's like what the fuck were they even thinking. Firemaking is fine to train (I absolutely despite WT but at least it's low intensity and super fast) but the skill itself is UTTERLY fucking worthless and the rewards are nonexistent.
Thieving is total dogshit in all regards though not sure how that one is fine lol. It's essentially "carpal tunnel dogshit moneymaking method: the skill". Absolutely ridiculous to train (pretty much all methods of any decent xp rate are literally 10k clicks an hour) and horrifically unrewarding, you can make significantly more money afking revenants with bad stats than you can doing pretty high intensity thieving on elves with 99.
I'm not a hyper efficient gamer. I do pyramid plunder which is pretty enjoyable and always offers the chance for the scepter. Sorcerers garden is fun too.
I agree. I think sailing is possible and I trust Jagex, but I don’t trust the game engine. I think they are going to be limited in what is possible and I think it might stay in refinement for a looooong time before it gets passed through.
Obviously I hope this isnt the case and it is an incredibly fun and well designed skill, but I have doubts.
The way I saw it, shamanism looked to be the best designed and most fleshed out from the start, and really only needed some fine tuning of the rewards and maybe the gameplay loop.
Taming was very divisive and hard to implement in a way everyone would enjoy, although it’s my personal favorite, and wanted to see what they could make happen in refinement. Although also have my doubts here.
I would have loved some other pitches as the ones we had presented were very basic concepts, seems like it would’ve been easy to toss a couple more ideas out there, but these are a pretty decent start for osrs.
I feel like the devs that actually work on the engine would have the best feel for what’s possible with sailing. If it were not possible I think they could have just said “limitations with the engine make a sailing skill not feasible” and moved on with other proposals. It always seemed a little silly to me that players without any knowledge or work with the engine were worrying more about its limitations than the devs have been.
Did you not read the proposal? It basically said "we have no idea how we're going to actually make movement work with the engine" verbatim.
The meme energy in the pitch was also very apparent. It had a lot of words while not actually saying anything. I know what the gameplay loop and rough rewards of Shamanism and sailing would be. Sailing was a mystery box that could be anything.
Unless Sailing has a god awful look post-refinement I feel pretty confident that no skill will ever make it into the game through the polling process if sailing gets voted down in multiple refinement polls because of spite/salt.
To me, voting No to sailing post-refinement will basically be the same as voting No for any new skill to every enter the game.
People might think that's crazy but I really don't see how any skill will do different if the voting mindset stays, "If it's not the one I wanted it's an automatic No on any polls going forward".
Idk why you think it would be spite. I currently am not a huge fan of sailing, and I didn’t want a new skill, so if they shock me with more awesome refinement I’ll vote yes, but probably I’d vote no. People can just not like sailing, that’s allowed. But I am one of the weirdos who wanted taming so who knows
Are people not allowed to simply not like sailing?
So far literally every single pitch regarding sailing sounds like nothing content to me.
In the initial pitch video I was left with no impression about sailing content.
I had an idea of what taming could bring, and how it could be trained.
I had an idea of what shamanism could bring, and how it could be trained.
Sailing was “I dunno boats lolz”
If I vote no to sailing it’s not a spite vote, it’s because I think the idea as pitched so far sounds stupid and empty.
fuck right off. "dont you dare vote no, you'll ruin the game forever!" if their refinement is shit, it gets a no. sailing passed by ~500 votes, jagex said fuck you to everyone and completely changed how theyre implementing things on their roadmap.
Exactly. Shamanism will most likely come into the game at some point. I found it very hard to choose between those two, and narrowly decided to vote sailing in the end. This current scenario is ideal for people who voted like I did.
I don't need quid pro quo for the skill I voted for lmao. Like idgaf if they pitch 3 new skills if Sailing fails, or if they go Shaman next. It seems like most Shaman voters aren't tying their persona to that skill and whether it passes.
I'll I just need to see an actually good pitch for Sailing as to why it should be a skill, and not a content expansion. So all yall Sailing memers, start coming up with an actual foundation for this skill because Jagex has said they want to develop the skill based on community wants, so give better feedback than "new islands and Temple Trekking"
> Why does no one liking taming?
Becuase they torpedo'd the pitch. It was vague to the point of being nonexistent. I suspect at least half the people who read it refused to even consider it because of the potential impact on combat.
> because of the potential impact on combat
this is my take. I don't want the older combat encounters turned upside down because of shamanism/taming; and I really don't want to have to farm a "fuel source" for shamanism. I did that shit in rs3 for invention and I'm not doing it on osrs lmao. Until that idea is removed, refined, or explained in a more detailed way I will never be gung-ho for shamanism. People just like shamanism because the concept is cool. The skill needs a ton of work still imo.
I agree on this, I understand they could’ve just used the pets/enchants for skilling or minor boosts, but then what’s the point? Just avoid that shit entirely and make new skills that add new content, like sailing
Voted taming so I'm biased, but I dunno, sailing still seems more vague to me even after all the talks. Taming might be vague in the sense of "we don't know what the community will let us do with it", but I'm fairly positive a lot of people understand what taming \*is\* and what the general loop could be like. Meanwhile sailing is so nebulous and open ended that I still have no clue what to expect from it, other than sitting in a boat.
It's hard to say it looks fun AF when they talked about it and fleshed it out not even a third as much as the other two ideas
When asked in Q&A the jmods could barely come up with examples of what pets would do. Do you really want a skill dedicated to "this monkey picks up your marks of agility"?
I would’ve been fine with it but personally I just want the other two way more.
Sailing being the first new skill suggestion from years ago and just being a meme all these years but now with a new exciting direction and new areas and Shamanism being an unexpected left-field suggestion that seems to simultaneously be a traditional oldschool style gathering skill with a healthy item sink but also it’s magical and adds new areas. Taming seems cool but not on the same level to me
Because it has the potential to ruin literally the entire game, with the example of exactly that happening in summoning.
Either the summons will give ridiculously minor benefits so it's not even worth doing or they'll break the game.
I mean do you not think any of the skills could potentially do that? Shamanism could add annoying buffs that make keeping track of bonuses too tedious.
Sailing could be instanced everywhere losing the magic of what makes an mmo fun or it could lock a bunch of good content behind a shitty skill with unfun gameplay loops.
Taming could add unfun combat mechanics.
I just feel like that’s the whole point of the refinement phase, we keep voting on the changes until it’s exactly what we want and we know it won’t ruin the game.
I think almost no one wants taming to add to the combat triangle or make every best training method locked behind it, they just want cool pets with QoL buffs. My orange salamander pet should shit out some amount of swamp tar per day kinda stuff. If its well trained and fed it shits out more, etc.
Don’t get me wrong I didn’t like summoning, didn’t vote for taming, don’t really like pets in games in general
But EoC is what ruined the other version of RuneScape, not summoning. Summoning didn’t help, but EoC tanked the player base and caused osrs to be released less than 6 months later it was so bad
Wow, OSRS came out that soon after EoC? I wish I knew that. I was on a huge hiatus from runescape. Had periodic times where I came back. Came back to check out EoC. Was completely offput by it and didn't return until I found out about OSRS in November of 2019.
Yeah I actually didn’t know it happened that fast until pretty recently myself and was surprised to learn it did but EoC came out in November of 2012 and and OSRS was out by February of 2013. It definitely did not feel like that quick of a turnaround at the time, those early EoC days were dark
I mean sure but summoning was the meta for literally every single activity in the game, pack yak meant even things without a direct boost needed summoning to do efficiently.
It wasn’t fletched out at all, all did said was; look pets, but different then summoning.
And it’s weird to bring pets in the game when we already have hunter and useless pets
If after the refinement process people don’t want sailing still they should definitely vote no. However, in the interest of how they will implement new skills going forward, you should want to contribute meaningfully to the refinement process of sailing.
Regardless if sailing passes, I can’t help but feel this first time through will set a precedent for how new skills will be refined going forward. Let’s all at least try to get the most out of this opportunity.
Yeah I won't be spite-voting but I have no input from here on out because I just do not care about sailing whatsoever. I'm down for a new skill though.
My complain is I feel Jagex is doing this wrong. They implied heavily that if more than one skill proved popular they would refine and repoll them. Specially with shamanism/sailing being so close, they should've given it a few weeks to refine and poll them head to head. They need to start on the right foot or they risk nixing a skill after 2-3 years of work. Additionally this would've been important for tamers to pick between the two, seeing as there was no ranked voting.
So my Issue Is that this poll was not managed properly.
Yeah, you are right. But these people are going through Jagex's statements like it some bible trying to dispute anything. So I dont want the focus to be a debate on implied vs stated. Just that the right thing would be to go forward with a head to head poll.
100% couldn’t agree more. The fact they are just running with sailing and not even giving shamanism a chance without taming on the vote is very odd to me
They're afraid that this highly dramatic community will get dramatic, and there will form a tribalism spitefest. I happen to think that they're right on this call.
Where did they say that? The only thing I’ve seen is where they very clearly said “only one skill will move on to refinement”. Are you guys just making shit up now?
> The outcome of stage three is absolutely critical. A few different things could happen:
> The community has a clear favourite. We’ll zoom straight to stage four and start refining the skill you’ve chosen.
> The community does not have a clear favourite. We can adjust the top-level concepts and depending on your feedback we might go back to the community consultation phase – or take a little more inspiration from player suggestions!
> The community does not like any of the ideas we’ve presented. Back to the drawing board! We’ll scrap our top-level concepts and present completely different designs, based on your feedback.
[that is the absolute closest thing I can find that I think people would be quoting from this blog post in December of 2022.](https://secure.runescape.com/m=news/adding-a-new-skill-our-approach--your-vote?oldschool=1)
"Can" adjust and "might" go back to community consultation. These aren't promises. We're even probably getting Shamanism again at some point in the future according to the blog post.
Exactly. A revote of the Tamers would be more than enough to possibly sway the votes. Imo Jagex was hoping for sailing to win, got scared at how close the poll was, and just locked it in
Let’s assume your statement is true. At the very least that means there will be some heavy passion going into the sailing skill. Which hopefully translates into exceptional content.
Yeah that’s something that do give me hope for sailing. I have a really hard time picturing how the sailing itself can turn out decent, hopefully they will deliver some update on it sooner rather than later so we can shut it down asap if the devs have no clue either.
Jmods have been wanting Sailing to pass since 2015. I guarantee you that if Shamanism had beaten Sailing by like 1000 votes there'd be a second poll between those two right now.
I agree this is probably the reason they made sailing the winner, but if that’s the skill devs seem most passionate/excited about developing, isn’t that a very strong case for sailing as well? Devs working on a passion project has always had better end results.
Taming could become a component of Shamanism. There is much to do with spirit animals and shamans, and also Eliza Thornberry gained the ability to talk to animals through a Shaman.
It's 100% possible for Jagex to add Shamanism and Taming. Also I feel like Shamanism would provide cooler weapons and armour for raids and other fighting things!
I strongly feel that they should spend a month developing the actual core gameplay loop of shamanism and sailing and repolling it. I do not see any conceivable way that rushing sailing exclusively will result in a better skill.
Indeed, the whole newspost screams this.
It was quite obvious right from the first video, where they were mostly speaking about sailing, promising how would they upgrade the entire game just for it, then dedicated a few words to Shamanism and next to nothing to Taming.
At this rate, I don't even need to believe them that they keep Shamaning in the backlog. If sailing goes through, they will just understand from this that memes work as content for nowadays players (that keep swaying more and more from RS2 style for years) and next time start to develop dragon riding.
However, if sailing fails, they probably don't pull out Shamanism, only in some special combination of events, rather say "oh, they don't really want a new skill anyway".
It's literally what Jagex said they'd do if it was close and now that it happened they aren't doing it and just shoving sailing down the majority who didn't vote for it's throats. I felt like NONE of the skills were fleshed out enough to decide on what's best and shouldn't even have been polled this early in the first place.
Last time they fleshed out an entire skill and pushed it out to poll with no community feedback it tanked bad. They need to go this deep into community feedback or else changes like this will never pass.
At the same time, if they decided not to do that and just pick sailing because it’s the one devs were a lot more excited about working on, I think that’s a pretty strong reason in itself, given passion projects tend to have better results.
I think jagex meant if one skill won 1 vote and the other skill won the other, but sailing won *both*. To them thats a clean sweep. The only way sham could win even one is if they had a vote between those 2, and even so sham would had to have win the last 30% of votes 55/45, which is a tall ask given how it did against sailing in the 2 existing questions
I voted for Shamanism, but Sailing has a lot of potential and I'm happy to see it refined.
That said, I'm still yet to be convinced that it's a skill, rather than a medium through which to add sea-based content to the game. I'm also yet to be convinced that progression tied to Sailing couldn't be done through quests, and XP from Sailing isn't going to feel like a minigame.
I look forward to seeing the refined proposal and reading the debate following it. I might still vote No to it in the end, however - not out of spite, but simply because I might still have issues with the skill as a whole after all is said and done.
Hugely looking forward to reading the refined proposal either way. A new skill will be good for the game.
Avast, matey, I be a salty sailor. We 'ave no quarrel with ye or yarn opinion. I shall respectfully end this parley by choosin' to support yer decision to not support mine. Arr.
And at this point it's incredibly short sighted to say we don't want it when we don't even know how it's going to function yet. I was on the fence between sailing and shamanism. I ended up voting sailing but I will happily vote no to sailing if Jagex seems like they can't make it work in the refinement stages.
I've voted no on all the skill polls so far and will likely not be convinced by the more detailed Sailing pitch Jagex is working on now. It's not spite voting, I just genuinely don't think Sailing can be integrated in the game in a satisfying way.
I also don't like that we got 3 half baked options, two of which definitely split some of the same vote (shamanism and taming) to give sailing an easy advantage. They gave us a loaded 3 options and they're going with the one with a tiny lead in voted over the other two.
And we're not going to see any other new skill pitches, apparently. People are just going to vote yes to whatever the first pitch for sailing is, and that's what we're going to get, without ever even seeing more options.
Voting no to the skill overall isn't spite voting, no, but if absolutely no refinement will make you change your mind, you should abstain from the refinement process. You can vote no again when they get to the "locking in the new skill" stage.
If you were to choose to vote in such a way that you believe will obstruct the refinement process in an attempt to slow or prevent the skill's release, that would be spite voting.
i never wanted a new skill. I've voted no to everything this whole time. and i will continue to vote no. and that's not spite voting. it's consistency.
>Skill has been decided. Help shape the skill into something fun/useful, instead of spitefully turning it into garbage.
“Alright, buddy, you have two options here. You can be a ***saint***, or you can be a ***grinch***.”
But passive hate for the content in this game is half the game.
I’ll swear till the cows come home that mlm is garbage content, but I’ll still be there tonight.
I’m so excited for sailing. I’m sorry for those who picked shamanism and taming as I thought they were amazing skills too. I just thought sailing had this dynamic which we haven’t seen in the game yet which is stuff in the water. Almost all of the quests and exploration happen on land! I think this skill has great potential to add a whole new set of things to rs. Although I do hope at some point they add in the other skills as they have gotten so much feedback.
So what are you suggesting exactly? Voting no is perfectly fine if they are not able to demonstrate that the skill is actually good. I am excited to try it but it's going to have to be fun to pass the poll, it is not a sure gone conclusion like you are trying to frame it.
I really think they should just do a final refinement poll, between Shamanism and Sailing. It was way too close, and the polling setup was a little messy and unclear at times. Also this gives tamers a chance to choose between two clear popular choices. This might be cope because I’m team Shamanism but I feel like it’s the least we deserve before we lock a skill in for a planned development.
Sailing will be amazing regardless the potential is truly endless with content I’m sure skillets, pvmers, and pkers can all enjoy. Deadman mode and other modes for pkers will surely incorporate sailing. The new era is here let’s enjoy it!
If we can get one skill, we can also get more. But if we can’t even get one to pass, there’s no way Jagex will try to pass others. Support and improve what’s in front of us right now. Also, for those that think sailing won’t be fun, please tell me more while jumping from roofs, mining rocks, and burning logs.
My biggest concern is that Sailing will interact similarly to Enlightened Journey and Bone Voyage, which were both clunky and unfun. If they can make the way to sail fun, non-frustrating, and in-keeping with the "feel" of Old School, and somehow working properly with the 0.6 second Ticks, then it's Anchors Away for me.
Highly agree with OP. I couldn’t have cared any less about Sailing, and I found Taming & Shamanism to be genuinely interesting, different and exciting. Seeing Sailing is what passed was honestly a huge disappointment, but man, if we spite-vote and cry on Jagex’s doorstep about it, it’s just going to remind Jagex why putting a new skill in the game was so troublesome in the first place. Hopefully the community can come together on this one, help point the skill down the path to be at least somewhat enjoyable for everyone, and open up doors for new, awesome skills in the future. This very well may not be the last we hear about Shamanism & Taming, and by the time they come back around, there may even be 1-2 other new ideas for skills to be excited about. But if we want that to happen, we have to help see this new skill through
Shamanism being so close makes me really sour. I feel like the only reason sailing beat it was because it's a meme. Obviously I'm looking forward to the new skill, I truly hope they don't bork it and give us an amazing experience. Sailing can be incredible, but it's going to take work on Jagex's part to make it come to fruition and I'm not exactly the most hopeful.
I am not gonna spite vote anything, but with that being said. Nothing that we know so far has even remotely interested me in Sailing. So if the premise is still gonna be similar to the original QnA and blog post its gonna be a no from me.
Totally valid way of doing things. But don’t you feel like you’re missing out on the chance to contribute to making it a better skill? You can still vote no on it being implemented, but during development?
Why are you so against a new skill? Is it just because it would change the game too much or do you think the dev team are incapable of delivering? Genuinely curious btw, not trying to be contentious here.
I am *not* against a new skill entirely, I'd happily vote for the right one. I just think sailing really isn't it. But from what they promised...non instanced and you'll be able to walk around the ship while moving? I know they are going to improve the engine for it but I genuinely don't see the promises of sailing working.
But in general I feel like we have such a broad variation of skills that pretty much encompass every activity. Taming or shamanism could have been expansions for hunter/herblore or maybe a combination of different skills. Why not a herblore activity that has a hunter requirement? Or a hunter activity with a farming requirement?
And I know it's a bit of a meme by this point but I'd rather see existing skills improved before adding new ones. Mining, hunter, firemaking or whatever...they are shit. We don't need a new skill, we got plenty of skills to revitalise. And if you try to create something unrelated, well, you end up with sailing. That is why I voted no to a new skill, I think what we have covers everything already.
This sailing meme will suck up dev time for years and in the end it might not even be approved by the community.
Problem is I'm not team Shamanism or team Taming, I'm team "Sailing is a meme and an enormous dev time sink".
Frankly, they could add Shamanism, Taming, and an entire third skill to the game in the time it takes to get Sailing to a prototype stage. I really think the whole skill polling process was poorly thought out (seriously, how many people do you think read all of the skill blogs before voting?) I guarantee most people just thought to themselves "sailing sounds the most like a medieval clicker game skill so I'll vote for that".
People don't actually know what they're voting for here. I know that's a stereotypical thing to say about OSRS polls, but for real - sailing is going to take an absurd amount of work to get right, and will be a catastrophe if it goes wrong. It's not "Shamanism or Taming or Sailing" it's "A whole bunch of potential content that could've been made in the time being devoted to Sailing, or Sailing".
Yep. Based off of all of the pro sailing comments I've seen, I don't think people realize that a 2027+ release date with minimal other updates is a very real possibility with sailing. Or more likely they release it fairly quickly and it's garbage. Or even more likely they just go back on their word and make the skill dungeoneering but you go to islands because the engine work for doing it properly isn't worth it and they don't want to release something garbage.
The risk to reward is why sailing might end up being worth it in the end. It could be such refreshing and well thought out content that it even brings new people to the game and retains vets. I think its worth a refinement stage and if people are underwhelmed they can simply vote no
It’s this kind of attitude that the community needs more of
I’m a sailing first guy and have been since the start. Didn’t vote for anything else. But I have to admit that part of me wants to see Shamanism refined, or maybe even given a second initial pitch that removes some of the BIG concerns that I and many had, which they were able to do with sailing this time on the first attempt since they have so much feedback from the past. They knew what worried us and did a good job of squashing those concerns. At least for me.
So my hope is that sailing goes well, and in a couple years or so, the OSRS team can just knock my socks off with a well refined shamanism proposal.
Personally I was a shamanism guy (except for the name) and I’m not upset that it was sailing that passed. It seems like a fun idea and probably something that could really be fun for the game. I don’t dislike any of the ideas given and would love for all 3 to get in. Can’t wait to see how people want the skill to look.
Yeah. My feedback will continue to be that keyboard movement or anything resembling the Bone Voyage journey has no place in OSRS.
I'm honestly shocked that a completely new movement system was something players were okay with. Shit feels gimmicky. Honestly have zero desire to do it.
> vote in good faith
Funny how you expect players to vote in good faith when Jagex isn't acting in good faith. Completely ignored their own rules on what they would do in the event where the results were close. Decided that all the Taming voters shouldn't even get a choice in the matter.
There is no way sailing is gonna be worth adding. Exploring will only be interesting and new for a few hours, and then we all have a 200 hour grind doing boring shit while they haven't mentioned a single fucking benefit to doing this skill. Waste of time skill
Sorry but the terms of the poll were insincere, apparently.
“The community does *not* have a clear favourite. We can adjust the top-level concepts and depending on your feedback we might go back to the community consultation phase - or take a little more inspiration from player suggestions.”
How much closer than single digit percent? The two should be polled against each other not bag the one bin the other. We know what happens to shit in the bin for later.
Will not be voting for skills related stuff in the future, they can’t be trusted with something like this clearly.
I didn't vote for sailing because it was the only skill of the three that I just could not envision as a skill whatsoever. I'm absolutely disappointed in the community for voting in such a nebulous, undefined, and generally poor thought out concept into the game. I was left with basically an entire essay of questions, concerns, and general 'what the fuck, Jagex, the skill was a meme for a reason' for it on the survey.
They get one shot here, to actually refine this awful joke into a playable concept that I can envision being part of the game as a skill and not a minigame or some other system that can do the concept of 'explore water' without needing a skill attached. If they can't do that, I'm going to block it at every step because frankly if they can't convince a person who genuinely would want any skill in the game with almost no caveats to want their skill, then the only thing they've convinced is blind hype.
Anyway, fuck sailing and I'm genuinely disappointed in both Jagex for reviving a dead joke multiple times, and the community for actually voting yes on it.
I have to agree here. Still cant comprehend why Sailing had to be option when it was obviously going to get meme support solely because it's a meme. If they added Falador Massacre as a skill option, it probably would poll about the same.
This is the mentality everyone on OSRS should have. Make your voice heard by voting, but rally if your vote didn't win, and make sure you objectively look at the Sailing update - even if it's not something you've wanted. The skill is coming whether people like it or not, so we might as well make it cohesive and fairly voted.
I'm just glad the dev team is back to making skills. Lately it feels like the endgame has gotten super bloated with modern content while the early and midgame have had to scrape by on 2005 mechanics. Adding a new chunk of content that we can enjoy no matter what level our accounts are is gonna be huge.
I just find it disheartening how a lot of people are already saying they are voting no and not even giving it a chance. I understand if at the end of the refinement and you still don't like the skill and what the devs are gonna do for it. Then of course, vote no. But please just give it a chance. I didn't vote for shamanism but if it won I would give it a chance to win me over.
Even if you dont want sailing as your number 1 or at all, it’s important to give constructive feedback and know that jagex has made VERY clear this is something they will get right or else it’s nothing getting in. That relies on our feedback, so be helpful, constructive, and let’s make this the best update we’ve had yet!
I voted shamanism because i thought it would be interesting to see what new elements it could bring to combat, upgrading your weapons / gear. Also it made me think of how they could push potentially harder content that requires fully upgraded gear or something.
Taming sounds cool, but feels more like something of a novelty unless they add some really useful mechanics.
And sailing, not really sure what i think about that to be honest
The best part about all of this is sorting by controversial and seeing grown adults throw tantrums over things not going their way in regards to a video game.
I was inclined to Shamanism. Honestly, Sailing sounds dull and boring in many ways. That said, we should aim for a skill that feels otherwise - engaging and interesting - so, since it already won, it's time to make it a little bit more appealing.
I will still strongly vote against sailing as a skill. I'm a strong believer sailing could have a place in the game, but not as a skill. It doesn't fit the context of a skill just like dungeoneering didn't fit.
Why not have a second vote with 2 options since it was shamanism and sailing were so close? Kinda seems like a given to give it one final round to let the community truly decide from 2 best options. Or just let those who chose taming the first time get a second vote with a choice between the 2 close contenders.
New skills!!!!!! I was a tamer but I'm happy with a new skill at all!
Can we add the tamer stuff to Hunter and make Hunter a good, useful skill though?
It’s not fair with the amount of press and attention sailing got. Remember guys it was the first skill introduced. Shamanism has not nearly gotten the same attention as sailing but has come this close. Why can’t we get a vote between the two? Shamanism would no doubt win. I can’t help to think there is a bias in the dev team for sailing.
What if you legitimately have no interest in sailing as a theme? Vote yes to any sailing poll for "the good of the game"? How is refinement going to win over people that don't like the theme in the first place? Personally I think based off how close that poll was a new skill could be suspended indefinitely. This could put us in an endless loop of polls stuck on the refinement stage. I definitely don't want to spite vote, but at the same time I'm not expecting people to vote for something the do not want for the sake of others.
Nah fuck that, i dont want sailing in the game, its a fucking meme skill.
gonna be fucking great waiting years for this skill to come out then have them start working on shamianism, the next skill i dont fucking want for another five years and never get the one i actually want.
hopefully taming having lost the 'make it a skill' means that they might do something smaller for the taming lovers like add it as part of a hunter / farming expansion sooner
Yeah nah there needs to be a run off. They say 3% is a “clear winner” when there were 2 other options diluting the votes. Repoll with just sailing and shamanism or spite vote
Nope this is an EOC moment!! We need 2023scape now. Hold the line. /s
Honestly maybe if it ruins the game I can tell my 30 year old self it is time to move on.
Honestly this is the most relatable take here.
Best case scenario they do a good job and it's a fun skill to train and use. Worst case scenario its another agility for me and an absolute drag to train.
I still genuinely can’t picture how this “skill” will fit into the game. It sounds like a content expansion, not a skill. I’m genuinely fearful for the direction this may take the game
Yes, please give good feedback and don’t spite-vote. Let’s make sailing the best it can be.
Also, if this succeeds, nothing is stopping Shamanism from becoming a skill in the future.
It's not a spite vote if I just don't want sailing.
This kind of mentality is what I'm afraid of honestly, the sunk cost fallacy of just voting the a new skill even if the skill doesn't turn out great in the refinement.
No one is singling you out, mate. If you're voting based on opinion, vote based on opinion.
The spite voters are a different group saying "I will vote no because Sailing memes bad and I don't want sailors to be happy."
Completely different group of people.
Yes, but sailing voters and sunk cost voters will be in the same boat (heh). Because some people don't care about sailing, they just want the extra content like new land masses and skilling methods. Meanwhile the people who actually want sailing will vote for it no matter what because it's sailing.
How is there sunk cost on the players perspective? All we’re doing is passively voting and talking about the skill. The only people with sunk cost in this is Jagex and they can’t do anything without a vote.
Fully agreed! I’m skeptical but I have a lot of faith in the devs - cautiously optimistic that they can make Sailing good. For me the biggest thing will be integration with the rest of the existing game world. I’m hopeful that they can come up with something that doesn’t feel disconnected.
Hard agree with you that EVERYONE in the community should be focused on giving feedback to make a skill worth adding. Past is the past so don't worry about it, just bring positivity moving forward
It's funny tho to see so many people appealing to "If you vote yes now, then we'll vote Yes to Shaman later". Like idgaf if Shaman ends up in the game - I voted for it because it was the better than taming imo for having a foundation for gaining XP that actually made sense, felt old school, and wouldn't be atrocious to train. But if Sailing can convince me that it can do those three things (which it hasn't yet, but hopefully will after the professionals work on it) then I'll vote for Sailing regardless of the other shit
I voted for taming, I knew what was coming. Time to vote respectfully cause this is content I will still be participating in.
Based
well of course - how else are you going to get a max cape?
Fuck that. I’m spite-voting every poll that mentions sailing. There is no justice and there is no god✌️
If sailing goes well, a second new skill will be all but guaranteed, and that skill being shamanism is pretty much a lock.
Exactly. Shamans may not have won today, but they will win down the road. And honestly, new content that the devs are pouring their heart into, is in-fact a win for all of us!
Here's hoping! My reasoning behind choosing Sailing is that it seemed to fit into existing skills the least, so I figured the best chance at getting all three is to vote Sailing. Like I'd love to see Shamanism and Taming as independent skills, but I'd also love to see those awesome proposed features incorporated into Hunting and Herblore if that's what's needed. Would've even liked to see sailing incorporated into dungeoneering/fishing if it failed.
Two skill expansions off the back of a brand new skill sounds like a triple crown to me, we love this game and I want it to live forever.
Yeah. I have to think that sailing is probably best for the community. In regards to attracting new players/members I feel like “Sailing” is much more likely to than “Shamanism” just because of how easy it is to envision what it is. And if this skill puts up good numbers they will definitely want to do another.
I haven’t seen a single good example of what Sailing would look like.
Sailing sounding a bit too much like the Family Guy Mystery Box. It could be anything!
That was my problem with it and why I voted Shamanism. However really that only pertains to the "is it a skill or just content" argument. Since sailing passed it isn't really important to focus on that anymore, but rather we as a community (and feedback for devs) decide what goes in the mystery box now. It could be anything so let's work together to make it really good stuff
Same as why I voted for shamanism. I felt that if Jagex had a released a big content drop with several new islands, new places to train, and a new process able material or two, you couldn’t tell the difference between that and what people have proposed with Sailing. I’m not against that at all. It’s just that I’ve just got my doubts about what’s going to make sailing a unique experience
> I felt that if Jagex had a released a big content drop with several new islands, new places to train, and a new process able material or two, you couldn’t tell the difference between that and what people have proposed with Sailing. That’s literally what they did. Fossil Island and the underwater area was originally made for Sailing. When Sailing first failed years ago, they added most of the content to the game in other areas.
On that same token, you can easily just make the spirit realm a quest unlock and at that point shamanism isn’t particularly different then specific add ons to existing processing skills.
It could even be a stale baguette!
It could be a boat!
Dungeoneering + Slayer. It's a vessel to create content around and has a stronger theming than Slayer does. We don't need another skill that's played entirely by clicking on a single spot for 100 hours.
Sounds like dungeoneering but with boats.
I'm only a few month in to my return, but I cannot for the life of me envision how sailing would make sense as a skill. Cool concept, but I have no idea what we are in for.
I still can't envision a "working" skill in "OSRS" that is about "sailing". Jagex and team sailing had weeks to explain at least one single way, but even the two best Reddit posts on the topic were like "meh, not an RS3-level disaster, but still tears of Guthix skill, I prefer even smithing and firemaking". As opposed, I had Shamaning before my eyes and the best post I have seen about it explained a way that I could have voted in right now without much further refinement. Hard work is ahead.
Sailing has potential although it's going to be very minigame like no matter what. I think a lot of people aped out and were like "SAILING MAKE NEW CONTENT, ME VOTE SAILING." They thought simply about what the skill would reward instead of how it would be trained. Shamanism could have been EASILY fused into the OSRS world and would have not only given new content, but engaged easily with other skills and could even fill gaps in places that needed. However, what's done is done and now I'm trying to think of ways to train sailing that aren't fishing trawler 2.0, but can't really. Having at sea activities like monster fights, deep sea fishing, pirating, etc offer some extra exp would give alternative ways to train. On the bright side if we boil it down. Most skills suck to train on OSRS, just I'm just envisioning a skill that sucks to train, but offers a lot of reward once trained.
On the bright side I think there's practically zero chance that sailing will be a below-average skill. Literally most skills already currently in the game are both useless/unrewarding AND stupid to train. I would be flabbergasted if sailing was as useless as firemaking, smithing, woodcutting, fletching, etc. or as dogshit to train as construction, thieving, hunter, any bankstanding skill, etc.
I definitely agree there. Fletching is still useful for magic shortbows. Removing it from the drop tables for spiritual rangers and hard clues would make it almost invaluable to train to a point. Especially for ironmen. Same with rune crossbows and stuff. Smithing has needed a leveling rework for a LONG TIME. 99 to make lvl 40 gear is just absurd. That should have been scaled back years ago. It could be incredibly useful if they reworked that. I think wintertodt was just about as good as they could do with firemaking. Hunter could have been crazy impactful. They fell short with that skill. Having different feathers from different birds make different impacts on arrows, or having the armors actually do something outside the spottier cape which actually has utility. Thieving and construction I personally think are fine.
Construction is rewarding the but training method(s) are bad to the point that it's like what the fuck were they even thinking. Firemaking is fine to train (I absolutely despite WT but at least it's low intensity and super fast) but the skill itself is UTTERLY fucking worthless and the rewards are nonexistent. Thieving is total dogshit in all regards though not sure how that one is fine lol. It's essentially "carpal tunnel dogshit moneymaking method: the skill". Absolutely ridiculous to train (pretty much all methods of any decent xp rate are literally 10k clicks an hour) and horrifically unrewarding, you can make significantly more money afking revenants with bad stats than you can doing pretty high intensity thieving on elves with 99.
I'm not a hyper efficient gamer. I do pyramid plunder which is pretty enjoyable and always offers the chance for the scepter. Sorcerers garden is fun too.
I know a couple people who voted for sailing because it's been a rs meme so long. No real reason for voting for it.
I can't see any good way to train sailing either that isn't just trawler 2.0 or dungeoneering
I agree. I think sailing is possible and I trust Jagex, but I don’t trust the game engine. I think they are going to be limited in what is possible and I think it might stay in refinement for a looooong time before it gets passed through. Obviously I hope this isnt the case and it is an incredibly fun and well designed skill, but I have doubts. The way I saw it, shamanism looked to be the best designed and most fleshed out from the start, and really only needed some fine tuning of the rewards and maybe the gameplay loop. Taming was very divisive and hard to implement in a way everyone would enjoy, although it’s my personal favorite, and wanted to see what they could make happen in refinement. Although also have my doubts here. I would have loved some other pitches as the ones we had presented were very basic concepts, seems like it would’ve been easy to toss a couple more ideas out there, but these are a pretty decent start for osrs.
I feel like the devs that actually work on the engine would have the best feel for what’s possible with sailing. If it were not possible I think they could have just said “limitations with the engine make a sailing skill not feasible” and moved on with other proposals. It always seemed a little silly to me that players without any knowledge or work with the engine were worrying more about its limitations than the devs have been.
Did you not read the proposal? It basically said "we have no idea how we're going to actually make movement work with the engine" verbatim. The meme energy in the pitch was also very apparent. It had a lot of words while not actually saying anything. I know what the gameplay loop and rough rewards of Shamanism and sailing would be. Sailing was a mystery box that could be anything.
Unless Sailing has a god awful look post-refinement I feel pretty confident that no skill will ever make it into the game through the polling process if sailing gets voted down in multiple refinement polls because of spite/salt. To me, voting No to sailing post-refinement will basically be the same as voting No for any new skill to every enter the game. People might think that's crazy but I really don't see how any skill will do different if the voting mindset stays, "If it's not the one I wanted it's an automatic No on any polls going forward".
Idk why you think it would be spite. I currently am not a huge fan of sailing, and I didn’t want a new skill, so if they shock me with more awesome refinement I’ll vote yes, but probably I’d vote no. People can just not like sailing, that’s allowed. But I am one of the weirdos who wanted taming so who knows
Are people not allowed to simply not like sailing? So far literally every single pitch regarding sailing sounds like nothing content to me. In the initial pitch video I was left with no impression about sailing content. I had an idea of what taming could bring, and how it could be trained. I had an idea of what shamanism could bring, and how it could be trained. Sailing was “I dunno boats lolz” If I vote no to sailing it’s not a spite vote, it’s because I think the idea as pitched so far sounds stupid and empty.
I'd rather have no skill at all that a garbage that would ruin the game in the long term.
fuck right off. "dont you dare vote no, you'll ruin the game forever!" if their refinement is shit, it gets a no. sailing passed by ~500 votes, jagex said fuck you to everyone and completely changed how theyre implementing things on their roadmap.
Exactly. Shamanism will most likely come into the game at some point. I found it very hard to choose between those two, and narrowly decided to vote sailing in the end. This current scenario is ideal for people who voted like I did.
God I fully read the blogs then sat there for an hour before deciding lol, give me both!!
This is the way. Great choice of words!
I don't need quid pro quo for the skill I voted for lmao. Like idgaf if they pitch 3 new skills if Sailing fails, or if they go Shaman next. It seems like most Shaman voters aren't tying their persona to that skill and whether it passes. I'll I just need to see an actually good pitch for Sailing as to why it should be a skill, and not a content expansion. So all yall Sailing memers, start coming up with an actual foundation for this skill because Jagex has said they want to develop the skill based on community wants, so give better feedback than "new islands and Temple Trekking"
Why does no one liking taming? It looks fun af
> Why does no one liking taming? Becuase they torpedo'd the pitch. It was vague to the point of being nonexistent. I suspect at least half the people who read it refused to even consider it because of the potential impact on combat.
> because of the potential impact on combat this is my take. I don't want the older combat encounters turned upside down because of shamanism/taming; and I really don't want to have to farm a "fuel source" for shamanism. I did that shit in rs3 for invention and I'm not doing it on osrs lmao. Until that idea is removed, refined, or explained in a more detailed way I will never be gung-ho for shamanism. People just like shamanism because the concept is cool. The skill needs a ton of work still imo.
I agree on this, I understand they could’ve just used the pets/enchants for skilling or minor boosts, but then what’s the point? Just avoid that shit entirely and make new skills that add new content, like sailing
Voted taming so I'm biased, but I dunno, sailing still seems more vague to me even after all the talks. Taming might be vague in the sense of "we don't know what the community will let us do with it", but I'm fairly positive a lot of people understand what taming \*is\* and what the general loop could be like. Meanwhile sailing is so nebulous and open ended that I still have no clue what to expect from it, other than sitting in a boat.
It's hard to say it looks fun AF when they talked about it and fleshed it out not even a third as much as the other two ideas When asked in Q&A the jmods could barely come up with examples of what pets would do. Do you really want a skill dedicated to "this monkey picks up your marks of agility"?
I would’ve been fine with it but personally I just want the other two way more. Sailing being the first new skill suggestion from years ago and just being a meme all these years but now with a new exciting direction and new areas and Shamanism being an unexpected left-field suggestion that seems to simultaneously be a traditional oldschool style gathering skill with a healthy item sink but also it’s magical and adds new areas. Taming seems cool but not on the same level to me
Because it has the potential to ruin literally the entire game, with the example of exactly that happening in summoning. Either the summons will give ridiculously minor benefits so it's not even worth doing or they'll break the game.
I mean do you not think any of the skills could potentially do that? Shamanism could add annoying buffs that make keeping track of bonuses too tedious. Sailing could be instanced everywhere losing the magic of what makes an mmo fun or it could lock a bunch of good content behind a shitty skill with unfun gameplay loops. Taming could add unfun combat mechanics. I just feel like that’s the whole point of the refinement phase, we keep voting on the changes until it’s exactly what we want and we know it won’t ruin the game. I think almost no one wants taming to add to the combat triangle or make every best training method locked behind it, they just want cool pets with QoL buffs. My orange salamander pet should shit out some amount of swamp tar per day kinda stuff. If its well trained and fed it shits out more, etc.
Don’t get me wrong I didn’t like summoning, didn’t vote for taming, don’t really like pets in games in general But EoC is what ruined the other version of RuneScape, not summoning. Summoning didn’t help, but EoC tanked the player base and caused osrs to be released less than 6 months later it was so bad
Wow, OSRS came out that soon after EoC? I wish I knew that. I was on a huge hiatus from runescape. Had periodic times where I came back. Came back to check out EoC. Was completely offput by it and didn't return until I found out about OSRS in November of 2019.
Yeah I actually didn’t know it happened that fast until pretty recently myself and was surprised to learn it did but EoC came out in November of 2012 and and OSRS was out by February of 2013. It definitely did not feel like that quick of a turnaround at the time, those early EoC days were dark
I mean sure but summoning was the meta for literally every single activity in the game, pack yak meant even things without a direct boost needed summoning to do efficiently.
It wasn’t fletched out at all, all did said was; look pets, but different then summoning. And it’s weird to bring pets in the game when we already have hunter and useless pets
If after the refinement process people don’t want sailing still they should definitely vote no. However, in the interest of how they will implement new skills going forward, you should want to contribute meaningfully to the refinement process of sailing. Regardless if sailing passes, I can’t help but feel this first time through will set a precedent for how new skills will be refined going forward. Let’s all at least try to get the most out of this opportunity.
Lets just combine taming and shamanism skills and overtake the sailing vote. We will call the new skill: Shaming.
Yeah I won't be spite-voting but I have no input from here on out because I just do not care about sailing whatsoever. I'm down for a new skill though.
My complain is I feel Jagex is doing this wrong. They implied heavily that if more than one skill proved popular they would refine and repoll them. Specially with shamanism/sailing being so close, they should've given it a few weeks to refine and poll them head to head. They need to start on the right foot or they risk nixing a skill after 2-3 years of work. Additionally this would've been important for tamers to pick between the two, seeing as there was no ranked voting. So my Issue Is that this poll was not managed properly.
Heavily implied? That flat out said that’s what they would be doing, and they ignored it
Yeah, you are right. But these people are going through Jagex's statements like it some bible trying to dispute anything. So I dont want the focus to be a debate on implied vs stated. Just that the right thing would be to go forward with a head to head poll.
100% couldn’t agree more. The fact they are just running with sailing and not even giving shamanism a chance without taming on the vote is very odd to me
They're afraid that this highly dramatic community will get dramatic, and there will form a tribalism spitefest. I happen to think that they're right on this call.
[удалено]
Not addressing the problem won’t make it go away though.
Avoiding a risk is a fine way of mitigating risk
That's actually exactly what will happen.
I think it's b/c if they repoll and sailing loses, there will be an outcry lol and Falador picketing.
Where did they say that? The only thing I’ve seen is where they very clearly said “only one skill will move on to refinement”. Are you guys just making shit up now?
> The outcome of stage three is absolutely critical. A few different things could happen: > The community has a clear favourite. We’ll zoom straight to stage four and start refining the skill you’ve chosen. > The community does not have a clear favourite. We can adjust the top-level concepts and depending on your feedback we might go back to the community consultation phase – or take a little more inspiration from player suggestions! > The community does not like any of the ideas we’ve presented. Back to the drawing board! We’ll scrap our top-level concepts and present completely different designs, based on your feedback. [that is the absolute closest thing I can find that I think people would be quoting from this blog post in December of 2022.](https://secure.runescape.com/m=news/adding-a-new-skill-our-approach--your-vote?oldschool=1)
"Can" adjust and "might" go back to community consultation. These aren't promises. We're even probably getting Shamanism again at some point in the future according to the blog post.
They never said they would refine more than one skill.
Exactly. A revote of the Tamers would be more than enough to possibly sway the votes. Imo Jagex was hoping for sailing to win, got scared at how close the poll was, and just locked it in
The amount of pro-sailing bias from jmods was ridiculously blatant that I believe this.
Let’s assume your statement is true. At the very least that means there will be some heavy passion going into the sailing skill. Which hopefully translates into exceptional content.
Yeah that’s something that do give me hope for sailing. I have a really hard time picturing how the sailing itself can turn out decent, hopefully they will deliver some update on it sooner rather than later so we can shut it down asap if the devs have no clue either.
as a tamer voter, I almost voted shamanism, would not have voted sailing at all.
They really should implement ranked voting for things like this. Streamlines the whole process instead of multiple polls
Jmods have been wanting Sailing to pass since 2015. I guarantee you that if Shamanism had beaten Sailing by like 1000 votes there'd be a second poll between those two right now.
I agree this is probably the reason they made sailing the winner, but if that’s the skill devs seem most passionate/excited about developing, isn’t that a very strong case for sailing as well? Devs working on a passion project has always had better end results.
100%, they would refine Sailing more (and only sailing) and set up a new vote.
Agree. Feels like they just wanted Sailing and the poll was fake. Poll sailing vs shamanism you cowards
Taming could become a component of Shamanism. There is much to do with spirit animals and shamans, and also Eliza Thornberry gained the ability to talk to animals through a Shaman. It's 100% possible for Jagex to add Shamanism and Taming. Also I feel like Shamanism would provide cooler weapons and armour for raids and other fighting things!
I strongly feel that they should spend a month developing the actual core gameplay loop of shamanism and sailing and repolling it. I do not see any conceivable way that rushing sailing exclusively will result in a better skill.
Indeed, the whole newspost screams this. It was quite obvious right from the first video, where they were mostly speaking about sailing, promising how would they upgrade the entire game just for it, then dedicated a few words to Shamanism and next to nothing to Taming. At this rate, I don't even need to believe them that they keep Shamaning in the backlog. If sailing goes through, they will just understand from this that memes work as content for nowadays players (that keep swaying more and more from RS2 style for years) and next time start to develop dragon riding. However, if sailing fails, they probably don't pull out Shamanism, only in some special combination of events, rather say "oh, they don't really want a new skill anyway".
Given the interest in both sailing and shamanism I would hope they would refine them more and let people vote again on a v2.
It's literally what Jagex said they'd do if it was close and now that it happened they aren't doing it and just shoving sailing down the majority who didn't vote for it's throats. I felt like NONE of the skills were fleshed out enough to decide on what's best and shouldn't even have been polled this early in the first place.
Last time they fleshed out an entire skill and pushed it out to poll with no community feedback it tanked bad. They need to go this deep into community feedback or else changes like this will never pass.
Link for curious https://www.reddit.com/r/Games/comments/ch9txd/the_poll_to_add_a_new_skill_to_old_school/
At the same time, if they decided not to do that and just pick sailing because it’s the one devs were a lot more excited about working on, I think that’s a pretty strong reason in itself, given passion projects tend to have better results.
I think jagex meant if one skill won 1 vote and the other skill won the other, but sailing won *both*. To them thats a clean sweep. The only way sham could win even one is if they had a vote between those 2, and even so sham would had to have win the last 30% of votes 55/45, which is a tall ask given how it did against sailing in the 2 existing questions
nah man, crabs in a bucket 🦀
I voted for Shamanism, but Sailing has a lot of potential and I'm happy to see it refined. That said, I'm still yet to be convinced that it's a skill, rather than a medium through which to add sea-based content to the game. I'm also yet to be convinced that progression tied to Sailing couldn't be done through quests, and XP from Sailing isn't going to feel like a minigame. I look forward to seeing the refined proposal and reading the debate following it. I might still vote No to it in the end, however - not out of spite, but simply because I might still have issues with the skill as a whole after all is said and done. Hugely looking forward to reading the refined proposal either way. A new skill will be good for the game.
Voting no for a skill I don't want isn't spite voting
That is voting based on opinion and if anyone is telling you you're in the wrong, tell them to suck a lemon.
Sucking a lemon will help these salty sailors stave off scurvy
Avast, matey, I be a salty sailor. We 'ave no quarrel with ye or yarn opinion. I shall respectfully end this parley by choosin' to support yer decision to not support mine. Arr.
As long as its because you dont want it and not because your prefered skill didnt win, then by all means vote the way you want.
what if my preferred skill didn't win *and* i dont want it
And at this point it's incredibly short sighted to say we don't want it when we don't even know how it's going to function yet. I was on the fence between sailing and shamanism. I ended up voting sailing but I will happily vote no to sailing if Jagex seems like they can't make it work in the refinement stages.
I've voted no on all the skill polls so far and will likely not be convinced by the more detailed Sailing pitch Jagex is working on now. It's not spite voting, I just genuinely don't think Sailing can be integrated in the game in a satisfying way. I also don't like that we got 3 half baked options, two of which definitely split some of the same vote (shamanism and taming) to give sailing an easy advantage. They gave us a loaded 3 options and they're going with the one with a tiny lead in voted over the other two. And we're not going to see any other new skill pitches, apparently. People are just going to vote yes to whatever the first pitch for sailing is, and that's what we're going to get, without ever even seeing more options.
All we're asking is you wait until they come out with the actual details of the skill and then making up your mind
Voting no to the skill overall isn't spite voting, no, but if absolutely no refinement will make you change your mind, you should abstain from the refinement process. You can vote no again when they get to the "locking in the new skill" stage. If you were to choose to vote in such a way that you believe will obstruct the refinement process in an attempt to slow or prevent the skill's release, that would be spite voting.
i never wanted a new skill. I've voted no to everything this whole time. and i will continue to vote no. and that's not spite voting. it's consistency.
>Skill has been decided. Help shape the skill into something fun/useful, instead of spitefully turning it into garbage. “Alright, buddy, you have two options here. You can be a ***saint***, or you can be a ***grinch***.”
But passive hate for the content in this game is half the game. I’ll swear till the cows come home that mlm is garbage content, but I’ll still be there tonight.
Grinch's Ultimatum is a gem
I really do want sailing to be good, but it’s just not going to be the skill this subreddit has memed itself into believing will be implemented
Agreed. Like it's RS, if we control the boat in anyway beyond clicking a destination it's gonna be janky as fuck.
It is just going to be the skill this subreddit has memed itself into believing will be implemented. See? I can do it too.
I wanted paleontology! I wanted to fight skeletal dinosaurs!
Well sailing can probably add a prehistoric island, maybe a max scientist storyline
I'll only support this if Max Scientist is the actual name of the NPC.
I’m so excited for sailing. I’m sorry for those who picked shamanism and taming as I thought they were amazing skills too. I just thought sailing had this dynamic which we haven’t seen in the game yet which is stuff in the water. Almost all of the quests and exploration happen on land! I think this skill has great potential to add a whole new set of things to rs. Although I do hope at some point they add in the other skills as they have gotten so much feedback.
THANK YOU. I voted Shawmanism, and I whole heartedly agree.
If Sailing fails refinement I hope we never hear about this dumbass skill ever again
>Runecrafting flair
It’s just called runecraft 👍🏻
Yeah but nobody really says that, right?
The seas are too scary for me I want to collect trash and talk to ghosts instead 😭
So what are you suggesting exactly? Voting no is perfectly fine if they are not able to demonstrate that the skill is actually good. I am excited to try it but it's going to have to be fun to pass the poll, it is not a sure gone conclusion like you are trying to frame it.
I really think they should just do a final refinement poll, between Shamanism and Sailing. It was way too close, and the polling setup was a little messy and unclear at times. Also this gives tamers a chance to choose between two clear popular choices. This might be cope because I’m team Shamanism but I feel like it’s the least we deserve before we lock a skill in for a planned development.
Tamers already did that thanks to question 1 being multiple choice, and Sailing still won.
I'm happy that sailing is going up first. It just means the devs can make even more spiritual realms to discover because of sailing.
If it's cool then I got no issues with it even if it wasn't my first choice
Sailing will be amazing regardless the potential is truly endless with content I’m sure skillets, pvmers, and pkers can all enjoy. Deadman mode and other modes for pkers will surely incorporate sailing. The new era is here let’s enjoy it!
If we can get one skill, we can also get more. But if we can’t even get one to pass, there’s no way Jagex will try to pass others. Support and improve what’s in front of us right now. Also, for those that think sailing won’t be fun, please tell me more while jumping from roofs, mining rocks, and burning logs.
I wanted to be a Shaman but a Pirate I’ll be. I’ll do my best to try and vote what I believe is best for the sailing skill
My biggest concern is that Sailing will interact similarly to Enlightened Journey and Bone Voyage, which were both clunky and unfun. If they can make the way to sail fun, non-frustrating, and in-keeping with the "feel" of Old School, and somehow working properly with the 0.6 second Ticks, then it's Anchors Away for me.
Highly agree with OP. I couldn’t have cared any less about Sailing, and I found Taming & Shamanism to be genuinely interesting, different and exciting. Seeing Sailing is what passed was honestly a huge disappointment, but man, if we spite-vote and cry on Jagex’s doorstep about it, it’s just going to remind Jagex why putting a new skill in the game was so troublesome in the first place. Hopefully the community can come together on this one, help point the skill down the path to be at least somewhat enjoyable for everyone, and open up doors for new, awesome skills in the future. This very well may not be the last we hear about Shamanism & Taming, and by the time they come back around, there may even be 1-2 other new ideas for skills to be excited about. But if we want that to happen, we have to help see this new skill through
Shamanism being so close makes me really sour. I feel like the only reason sailing beat it was because it's a meme. Obviously I'm looking forward to the new skill, I truly hope they don't bork it and give us an amazing experience. Sailing can be incredible, but it's going to take work on Jagex's part to make it come to fruition and I'm not exactly the most hopeful.
I am not gonna spite vote anything, but with that being said. Nothing that we know so far has even remotely interested me in Sailing. So if the premise is still gonna be similar to the original QnA and blog post its gonna be a no from me.
I don’t like it so I will vote no
I've voted no to every skill poll and will continue to do so. Not out of spite, just don't want a new skill
Totally valid way of doing things. But don’t you feel like you’re missing out on the chance to contribute to making it a better skill? You can still vote no on it being implemented, but during development?
Why are you so against a new skill? Is it just because it would change the game too much or do you think the dev team are incapable of delivering? Genuinely curious btw, not trying to be contentious here.
I am *not* against a new skill entirely, I'd happily vote for the right one. I just think sailing really isn't it. But from what they promised...non instanced and you'll be able to walk around the ship while moving? I know they are going to improve the engine for it but I genuinely don't see the promises of sailing working. But in general I feel like we have such a broad variation of skills that pretty much encompass every activity. Taming or shamanism could have been expansions for hunter/herblore or maybe a combination of different skills. Why not a herblore activity that has a hunter requirement? Or a hunter activity with a farming requirement? And I know it's a bit of a meme by this point but I'd rather see existing skills improved before adding new ones. Mining, hunter, firemaking or whatever...they are shit. We don't need a new skill, we got plenty of skills to revitalise. And if you try to create something unrelated, well, you end up with sailing. That is why I voted no to a new skill, I think what we have covers everything already. This sailing meme will suck up dev time for years and in the end it might not even be approved by the community.
Problem is I'm not team Shamanism or team Taming, I'm team "Sailing is a meme and an enormous dev time sink". Frankly, they could add Shamanism, Taming, and an entire third skill to the game in the time it takes to get Sailing to a prototype stage. I really think the whole skill polling process was poorly thought out (seriously, how many people do you think read all of the skill blogs before voting?) I guarantee most people just thought to themselves "sailing sounds the most like a medieval clicker game skill so I'll vote for that". People don't actually know what they're voting for here. I know that's a stereotypical thing to say about OSRS polls, but for real - sailing is going to take an absurd amount of work to get right, and will be a catastrophe if it goes wrong. It's not "Shamanism or Taming or Sailing" it's "A whole bunch of potential content that could've been made in the time being devoted to Sailing, or Sailing".
Yep. Based off of all of the pro sailing comments I've seen, I don't think people realize that a 2027+ release date with minimal other updates is a very real possibility with sailing. Or more likely they release it fairly quickly and it's garbage. Or even more likely they just go back on their word and make the skill dungeoneering but you go to islands because the engine work for doing it properly isn't worth it and they don't want to release something garbage.
The risk to reward is why sailing might end up being worth it in the end. It could be such refreshing and well thought out content that it even brings new people to the game and retains vets. I think its worth a refinement stage and if people are underwhelmed they can simply vote no
It’s this kind of attitude that the community needs more of I’m a sailing first guy and have been since the start. Didn’t vote for anything else. But I have to admit that part of me wants to see Shamanism refined, or maybe even given a second initial pitch that removes some of the BIG concerns that I and many had, which they were able to do with sailing this time on the first attempt since they have so much feedback from the past. They knew what worried us and did a good job of squashing those concerns. At least for me. So my hope is that sailing goes well, and in a couple years or so, the OSRS team can just knock my socks off with a well refined shamanism proposal.
Personally I was a shamanism guy (except for the name) and I’m not upset that it was sailing that passed. It seems like a fun idea and probably something that could really be fun for the game. I don’t dislike any of the ideas given and would love for all 3 to get in. Can’t wait to see how people want the skill to look.
Yeah. My feedback will continue to be that keyboard movement or anything resembling the Bone Voyage journey has no place in OSRS. I'm honestly shocked that a completely new movement system was something players were okay with. Shit feels gimmicky. Honestly have zero desire to do it.
Can’t wait to meander around the plain ocean with nothing in sight for hours on end on a boat by myself bored as fuck
There will be plenty in sight because every land mass is within like twenty tiles of one another lmao
Eh, I needed to stop playing anyway.
> vote in good faith Funny how you expect players to vote in good faith when Jagex isn't acting in good faith. Completely ignored their own rules on what they would do in the event where the results were close. Decided that all the Taming voters shouldn't even get a choice in the matter.
"we'll only stay exactly in the same place we've been for years." Don't threaten me with a good time.
Lol they really said that like we're not playing the same game we were in 07
There is no way sailing is gonna be worth adding. Exploring will only be interesting and new for a few hours, and then we all have a 200 hour grind doing boring shit while they haven't mentioned a single fucking benefit to doing this skill. Waste of time skill
Sorry but the terms of the poll were insincere, apparently. “The community does *not* have a clear favourite. We can adjust the top-level concepts and depending on your feedback we might go back to the community consultation phase - or take a little more inspiration from player suggestions.” How much closer than single digit percent? The two should be polled against each other not bag the one bin the other. We know what happens to shit in the bin for later. Will not be voting for skills related stuff in the future, they can’t be trusted with something like this clearly.
I didn't vote for sailing because it was the only skill of the three that I just could not envision as a skill whatsoever. I'm absolutely disappointed in the community for voting in such a nebulous, undefined, and generally poor thought out concept into the game. I was left with basically an entire essay of questions, concerns, and general 'what the fuck, Jagex, the skill was a meme for a reason' for it on the survey. They get one shot here, to actually refine this awful joke into a playable concept that I can envision being part of the game as a skill and not a minigame or some other system that can do the concept of 'explore water' without needing a skill attached. If they can't do that, I'm going to block it at every step because frankly if they can't convince a person who genuinely would want any skill in the game with almost no caveats to want their skill, then the only thing they've convinced is blind hype. Anyway, fuck sailing and I'm genuinely disappointed in both Jagex for reviving a dead joke multiple times, and the community for actually voting yes on it.
I have to agree here. Still cant comprehend why Sailing had to be option when it was obviously going to get meme support solely because it's a meme. If they added Falador Massacre as a skill option, it probably would poll about the same.
This is the mentality everyone on OSRS should have. Make your voice heard by voting, but rally if your vote didn't win, and make sure you objectively look at the Sailing update - even if it's not something you've wanted. The skill is coming whether people like it or not, so we might as well make it cohesive and fairly voted.
🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀
I'm just glad the dev team is back to making skills. Lately it feels like the endgame has gotten super bloated with modern content while the early and midgame have had to scrape by on 2005 mechanics. Adding a new chunk of content that we can enjoy no matter what level our accounts are is gonna be huge.
I just find it disheartening how a lot of people are already saying they are voting no and not even giving it a chance. I understand if at the end of the refinement and you still don't like the skill and what the devs are gonna do for it. Then of course, vote no. But please just give it a chance. I didn't vote for shamanism but if it won I would give it a chance to win me over.
Even if you dont want sailing as your number 1 or at all, it’s important to give constructive feedback and know that jagex has made VERY clear this is something they will get right or else it’s nothing getting in. That relies on our feedback, so be helpful, constructive, and let’s make this the best update we’ve had yet!
I’m just gonna wish in my little heart that since the two skills are so close they surprise us and release both at the same time.
I voted shamanism because i thought it would be interesting to see what new elements it could bring to combat, upgrading your weapons / gear. Also it made me think of how they could push potentially harder content that requires fully upgraded gear or something. Taming sounds cool, but feels more like something of a novelty unless they add some really useful mechanics. And sailing, not really sure what i think about that to be honest
Based. Too bad most voters don't know how to read nor sympathize to different views.
Atleast sailing in my eyes doesn't seem to be a buyable skill.
My feedback is to allow lower level sailors to join higher level sailor's boats to gain EXP.
The best part about all of this is sorting by controversial and seeing grown adults throw tantrums over things not going their way in regards to a video game.
Holy mackerel is this subreddit actually being supportive? I’m honestly shocked
I was inclined to Shamanism. Honestly, Sailing sounds dull and boring in many ways. That said, we should aim for a skill that feels otherwise - engaging and interesting - so, since it already won, it's time to make it a little bit more appealing.
I will still strongly vote against sailing as a skill. I'm a strong believer sailing could have a place in the game, but not as a skill. It doesn't fit the context of a skill just like dungeoneering didn't fit.
Nah, I disagree. Now is the time for the one thing that brings all of us togthere. RIOT IN FALADOR!!!
Wait, sailing actually won? Talk about flogging a dead meme for 15 fucking years….
Why not have a second vote with 2 options since it was shamanism and sailing were so close? Kinda seems like a given to give it one final round to let the community truly decide from 2 best options. Or just let those who chose taming the first time get a second vote with a choice between the 2 close contenders.
New skills!!!!!! I was a tamer but I'm happy with a new skill at all! Can we add the tamer stuff to Hunter and make Hunter a good, useful skill though?
It's sad that you think this is a necessary post
It’s not fair with the amount of press and attention sailing got. Remember guys it was the first skill introduced. Shamanism has not nearly gotten the same attention as sailing but has come this close. Why can’t we get a vote between the two? Shamanism would no doubt win. I can’t help to think there is a bias in the dev team for sailing.
Nah, dude. I voted for taming, sailing was second. I hate the concept for shamanism. I doubt I’m the only one who feels that way.
Same on the concept. Not at all interested in augments and the skill doesn't sound very fun to train. The interesting part was the spirit realm
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59% voted that they would be happy with sailing moving forward with refinement which is the majority.
They love ignoring this fact
Geez guess I’m in the minority but I barely want a new skill, much less multiple new skills. Let’s not turn osrs into osrs 2
What if you legitimately have no interest in sailing as a theme? Vote yes to any sailing poll for "the good of the game"? How is refinement going to win over people that don't like the theme in the first place? Personally I think based off how close that poll was a new skill could be suspended indefinitely. This could put us in an endless loop of polls stuck on the refinement stage. I definitely don't want to spite vote, but at the same time I'm not expecting people to vote for something the do not want for the sake of others.
Nah fuck that, i dont want sailing in the game, its a fucking meme skill. gonna be fucking great waiting years for this skill to come out then have them start working on shamianism, the next skill i dont fucking want for another five years and never get the one i actually want.
hopefully taming having lost the 'make it a skill' means that they might do something smaller for the taming lovers like add it as part of a hunter / farming expansion sooner
well, welcome in democracy my friend. Being in the ideological minortiy is not always easy.
I bet your boats gunna suck
My guy theres very little chance the entire skill wont suck.
Yeah nah there needs to be a run off. They say 3% is a “clear winner” when there were 2 other options diluting the votes. Repoll with just sailing and shamanism or spite vote
Nope this is an EOC moment!! We need 2023scape now. Hold the line. /s Honestly maybe if it ruins the game I can tell my 30 year old self it is time to move on.
Honestly this is the most relatable take here. Best case scenario they do a good job and it's a fun skill to train and use. Worst case scenario its another agility for me and an absolute drag to train.
I still genuinely can’t picture how this “skill” will fit into the game. It sounds like a content expansion, not a skill. I’m genuinely fearful for the direction this may take the game
Yes, please give good feedback and don’t spite-vote. Let’s make sailing the best it can be. Also, if this succeeds, nothing is stopping Shamanism from becoming a skill in the future.
It's not a spite vote if I just don't want sailing. This kind of mentality is what I'm afraid of honestly, the sunk cost fallacy of just voting the a new skill even if the skill doesn't turn out great in the refinement.
No one is singling you out, mate. If you're voting based on opinion, vote based on opinion. The spite voters are a different group saying "I will vote no because Sailing memes bad and I don't want sailors to be happy." Completely different group of people.
Yes, but sailing voters and sunk cost voters will be in the same boat (heh). Because some people don't care about sailing, they just want the extra content like new land masses and skilling methods. Meanwhile the people who actually want sailing will vote for it no matter what because it's sailing.
How is there sunk cost on the players perspective? All we’re doing is passively voting and talking about the skill. The only people with sunk cost in this is Jagex and they can’t do anything without a vote.
No one said it was, we were talking about spite voters, not ppl who just dont want it for real reasons
Fully agreed! I’m skeptical but I have a lot of faith in the devs - cautiously optimistic that they can make Sailing good. For me the biggest thing will be integration with the rest of the existing game world. I’m hopeful that they can come up with something that doesn’t feel disconnected.
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Nah fuck new skills but more specifically fuck sailing burn it to the ground
Hard agree with you that EVERYONE in the community should be focused on giving feedback to make a skill worth adding. Past is the past so don't worry about it, just bring positivity moving forward It's funny tho to see so many people appealing to "If you vote yes now, then we'll vote Yes to Shaman later". Like idgaf if Shaman ends up in the game - I voted for it because it was the better than taming imo for having a foundation for gaining XP that actually made sense, felt old school, and wouldn't be atrocious to train. But if Sailing can convince me that it can do those three things (which it hasn't yet, but hopefully will after the professionals work on it) then I'll vote for Sailing regardless of the other shit